I think all this whos faster than who lark is stupid, both drummers could play as fast as each other if they need to :) just that buddy showed off more in doing so lol .. i like both Gene & Buddy Either way :). Thanks for posting Mytoxx :)
Todays drummers are very good ,no doubt. People forget this is what young people listened to in the1930's and 1940's. Google Gene Krupa. The drum set he uses in this vid is what John Bonham and many others have used.10 years before this you had few drums and you only kept time, no solo's. Krupa brought the high-hat, tuneable toms,and specific type cymbals together to make the drum set,kit as we know it today.
Chick Webb who was one of Krupa's influences had his own band in the 1930's and he was technically and visually a powerhouse (although I have never seen film of him, if there is any). There were other guys who were featured as show drummers--I think Lionel Hampton was featured with louis Armstrong as a drummer. I don't know the dates on these. I think that Baby Dodds was also a focal point in the New Orleans style bands he backed in the 1920's (he was another of Krupa's influences).
@ParadiddleMcFlam : I have MANY recordings by Chick Webb and I have heard that he was "supposedly" an influence on Krupa, however, I don't hear it in Krupa's playing. Webb was ok, but Krupa was absolutely fabulous and all credit should go him and not to some "supposed" outside influence . I''m a sax player and though I have listened to many other sax players in my life time, my talent is all my own and all credit should go to me. Krupa was great , because of Krupa & nobody else.
@MrRJDB1969 I would never suggest that Krupa didn't do his own thing. He is my favorite drummer. However, he himself said that Chick was his biggest influence. This does not imply that Krupa was a mere imitator. My orignal comment was a response to someone who asked a question about "celebrity drummers". It isn't very clear due to the format of youtube comments.
What great band Gene had in those days, with strong soloists and particularly fine sax section. Gene takes his solos but gives plenty of space for his sidemen and sets up a happy vibe that encourages them to relax and play their best. And was not always the case in certain other drummer led bands, methinks. By the way, how many out there think Gus Johnson with Count Basie was the ultimate in relaxed but powerful big band drummers?
i started to play drums a while ago and i had never heard of Buddy Rich or Gene Krupa or any other drummers like the two,now i love looking at their vids and following them,but most drummers nowadays look up to Slipknot's drummer,or Travis McCoy{or whatever his name is}and they have no idea where any of those drummers learned from,these type of drummers!!well i say:GET A LIFE,NO DRUMMER TODAY IS BETTER THAN ANY OF THESE LEGENDS!!!!
What gets forgotten about Gene's technique is that he took lessons until shortly before he died. And, he always took lessons from symphonic drummers and would then apply this to Jazz. My fellow drummers who comment here should recognize this. Gene and Buddy, debating their merits against each other is nonsense. Two master drummers. Learn from both, as well as others like Chick Webb, Dave Tough, Sid Catlett, O' Neil Spencer and other players in their class.
This arrangement was always one of the best charts from the 1940s by any band. I've always enjoyed the two sudden uses of silence towards the end. You wouldn't think they'd be, but they're very effective.
All this talk about who was better than whom is really meaningless. I spent a ton of time watching these guys work in New York city in the 50s. I can tell you when this man worked, it was absolute magic. There were a lot of great drummers around but, this man was on a page all his own. As for the drum battles, it was all a novelty. It was done for the pleasure of the crowd and they really got into it. Great stuff.
Wish I could have seen them live too! When it comes to this debate about who is the greatest drummer of all time, I find it rather meaningless; Sure Buddy Rich could play both faster and more "precicely" than Krupa (messured in milliseconds), but on the other hand I think Krupa tries to (and succeeds in) add(ing) more "expression" to the playing. And watching him one can really see that he's "IN" the music, not just playing it or trying to show his skills.
I had the great luck to get to know Gene during his last years. He was such a wonderful person. We talked about Rich a few times. I well remember telling Gene that whenever I hear Rich play Rich sounds full of aggression and plays like he wants to beat someone up. Gene loved Buddy, they were very close freinds, and only one time responded to my statement. Gene simply said, quietly, "Well, yeah.".
You're right. He (Gene) had a way of playing with imagination rather than speed. Certainly he was fast but he was also very creative. I used to say, you could almost whistle to the "tune" he was playing. Regardles of the group around him, when he did his magic, everyone including the other musicians stopped to listen. Always with a smole. He was, musically, a great gift to the world.
i agree that Buddy may have been more "technical " than Gene, but sure that Buddy recognized a certain creative element in Gene that he himself lacked or was not as developed.
Buddy and Gene were good friends who hated these drum battles they did them because the public enjoyed them. they admired each other style and talent.
Oh Contrer,,,,as in quite the opposite. They made big money doing this. They were good friends yes. But quite opposites. GEne didnt need the money. He made hundreds of 1000's of dollars which was big money in those days. Buddy spent and invested his money in the wrong ways. Always needing to play to earn his next buck. They enjoyed these. I wish you could really see some of the other ones than the few floating around. They didnt say " GO GENE GO " for nothing.
Do you know of any other ones available on film? Were JATP concerts filmed regularly? I have some but none have Gene or Buddy. I am waiting for the day when Verve music gets a brain and starts releasing all of the stuff they must have.
I for one would like to know why people think that Buddy was so much more technical than Gene. When Gene plays fast or slow he has rhythem and a beat. Buddy on the other hand is just quick hands.
Based on watching them I would say Buddy had a somewhat faster single stroke role and was able to play just from the wrists a little more easily than Krupa. Also Buddy, tended to play alot of left hand two-stroke right-hand one-stroke patterns, which gives a different feel. Krupa tended to do more exclusively with single-stroke roles at fast tempos. Krupa himself said somewhere that Buddy's left hand was "impossible". Personally I prefer Krupa musically.
I don't think this is mimed, he's really hitting those crashes, and there's nothing to suggest to me that there is any miming going on. It seems like he's deffinetly hitting that snare all the way through and the crashes too, and as for the hi-hat you hear while he's playing both hands on the snare, he's playing it with his foot on every beat with his bass drum.
The Hi-hat you hear is foot work, useing your heal you can (almost) make the same sound you would make with your hand while opening the the hi hat. Its pretty standart but Krupa was one of the masters with padle work, actoually he invented it. (and the padle its self 2).
It really detracts when the end is cut off, why don't they get software and smudge it out frame by frame if it is copyright (which I doubt in a public domain film)
I can't thank you enough for posting this clip. As one of Gene's greatest fans I consider these to be two of his finest big band tracks. Thanks again.
No, in the filmographie the baritone man is Larry Patton...
Does anyone have clips from the film "night club girl" ?? In this Movie from 1948 Gene should also have great performances....Please share it to all of us gene krupa fans..We would thank you forever..
Gene was very very good and musical/creative. I like the big sound of the drums most especially his snare is really popping loud in that big room..nice bang to the snare. BIG.
Excellent....since it shows the more realistic band presentation with less Hollywoodish effects....On the original record, the solos were by Ventura (2 times, Don Fagerquist and Leon Cox.
Does anyone know what year this is?
chrismike7ish 5 months ago
Only Gene would take a solo on a splash.
JakeBarnes777 7 months ago
I think all this whos faster than who lark is stupid, both drummers could play as fast as each other if they need to :) just that buddy showed off more in doing so lol .. i like both Gene & Buddy Either way :). Thanks for posting Mytoxx :)
petebest22 10 months ago
A class act indeed and wonderful human being.
hudent 11 months ago
Liked the vid, just wish it didn't have ended so abruptly.
radicalgnostic9 1 year ago
Just curious. Why is there an electric guitar player in this orchestra? It seems pointless to play an instrument that can't be heard.
SirReal1958 1 year ago
@SirReal1958 this is not an electric guitar my friend.....it's a big old 18 inch archtop acoustic prob a gibson L-5
and it is part of the rhythm section....these guitars were huge and loud but were not designed to be playing solo's in an orchestra.....
oddjobjujitsu 11 months ago
nobody did drumming cooler than gene krupa
oddjobjujitsu 1 year ago
Todays drummers are very good ,no doubt. People forget this is what young people listened to in the1930's and 1940's. Google Gene Krupa. The drum set he uses in this vid is what John Bonham and many others have used.10 years before this you had few drums and you only kept time, no solo's. Krupa brought the high-hat, tuneable toms,and specific type cymbals together to make the drum set,kit as we know it today.
5bisley 1 year ago
Just freakin amazing...outstanding on the small cybals...awesome!
Ursugarspice 2 years ago
He was huge drummer!! awesome
Bubenik99 2 years ago
Krupa is the King!
AlwaysAGreekGirl 2 years ago 2
Haha the splash! you got to love Gene!
amandajosefin 2 years ago
its not the drums (he,s one of the best drummers ever) fellas comming for
its the show of the show man !
julesmonendrumface 2 years ago
question: was Krupa the first "celebrity drummer"? The first drummer to be featured in the forefront of a band?
inkey2 2 years ago
Chick Webb who was one of Krupa's influences had his own band in the 1930's and he was technically and visually a powerhouse (although I have never seen film of him, if there is any). There were other guys who were featured as show drummers--I think Lionel Hampton was featured with louis Armstrong as a drummer. I don't know the dates on these. I think that Baby Dodds was also a focal point in the New Orleans style bands he backed in the 1920's (he was another of Krupa's influences).
ParadiddleMcFlam 2 years ago
@ParadiddleMcFlam : I have MANY recordings by Chick Webb and I have heard that he was "supposedly" an influence on Krupa, however, I don't hear it in Krupa's playing. Webb was ok, but Krupa was absolutely fabulous and all credit should go him and not to some "supposed" outside influence . I''m a sax player and though I have listened to many other sax players in my life time, my talent is all my own and all credit should go to me. Krupa was great , because of Krupa & nobody else.
MrRJDB1969 1 year ago
@MrRJDB1969 I would never suggest that Krupa didn't do his own thing. He is my favorite drummer. However, he himself said that Chick was his biggest influence. This does not imply that Krupa was a mere imitator. My orignal comment was a response to someone who asked a question about "celebrity drummers". It isn't very clear due to the format of youtube comments.
ParadiddleMcFlam 1 year ago
@ParadiddleMcFlam : I'm with you there, Krupa is a favorite of mine as well.
MrRJDB1969 1 year ago
YES
snatchhog 2 years ago
What great band Gene had in those days, with strong soloists and particularly fine sax section. Gene takes his solos but gives plenty of space for his sidemen and sets up a happy vibe that encourages them to relax and play their best. And was not always the case in certain other drummer led bands, methinks. By the way, how many out there think Gus Johnson with Count Basie was the ultimate in relaxed but powerful big band drummers?
Fnarge 2 years ago
i started to play drums a while ago and i had never heard of Buddy Rich or Gene Krupa or any other drummers like the two,now i love looking at their vids and following them,but most drummers nowadays look up to Slipknot's drummer,or Travis McCoy{or whatever his name is}and they have no idea where any of those drummers learned from,these type of drummers!!well i say:GET A LIFE,NO DRUMMER TODAY IS BETTER THAN ANY OF THESE LEGENDS!!!!
magicMOBILEgenie 2 years ago 2
Gene Krupa the first superstar on drums. Great band great solos. Fantastic video.
Johnflugelhorn 2 years ago
AMAZING thats all I have to say! Soo smooth and cool! Gene was awesome!
rerr2000 2 years ago 4
What gets forgotten about Gene's technique is that he took lessons until shortly before he died. And, he always took lessons from symphonic drummers and would then apply this to Jazz. My fellow drummers who comment here should recognize this. Gene and Buddy, debating their merits against each other is nonsense. Two master drummers. Learn from both, as well as others like Chick Webb, Dave Tough, Sid Catlett, O' Neil Spencer and other players in their class.
drdee51 3 years ago 3
This arrangement was always one of the best charts from the 1940s by any band. I've always enjoyed the two sudden uses of silence towards the end. You wouldn't think they'd be, but they're very effective.
wadeharris65 3 years ago
Listen to Genes solo on "Genes Blues". Its really a musical eyeopener. Swinging, full of surprises, with a touch of his dixieland roots.
macvoutie 3 years ago
Hahaha, he kicks serious ass
Protenor 3 years ago 2
Who is playing first trumpet?
Eamon15 3 years ago
Ray triscari,possibly
annanoli 3 years ago
Okay okay, so maybe white men can't jump, but some of them sure can jam!
grout747 3 years ago
Only if there W.O.P.S like me LOL! Gene Krupa is the best!
nikcatello 3 years ago
how many music generes can u hear that came out of this!?
hep2jive 3 years ago
All this talk about who was better than whom is really meaningless. I spent a ton of time watching these guys work in New York city in the 50s. I can tell you when this man worked, it was absolute magic. There were a lot of great drummers around but, this man was on a page all his own. As for the drum battles, it was all a novelty. It was done for the pleasure of the crowd and they really got into it. Great stuff.
Jim275 3 years ago 15
Wish I could have seen them live too! When it comes to this debate about who is the greatest drummer of all time, I find it rather meaningless; Sure Buddy Rich could play both faster and more "precicely" than Krupa (messured in milliseconds), but on the other hand I think Krupa tries to (and succeeds in) add(ing) more "expression" to the playing. And watching him one can really see that he's "IN" the music, not just playing it or trying to show his skills.
mytoxx 3 years ago
Krupa and Belson are and will always be the best in my book.Rich had "speed",but no style or heart.thanks for bringing this clip out!
mickim1953 3 years ago
I had the great luck to get to know Gene during his last years. He was such a wonderful person. We talked about Rich a few times. I well remember telling Gene that whenever I hear Rich play Rich sounds full of aggression and plays like he wants to beat someone up. Gene loved Buddy, they were very close freinds, and only one time responded to my statement. Gene simply said, quietly, "Well, yeah.".
drdee51 3 years ago 3
Only Krupa would say something like that,what a gentleman,and a professional at that.A class act as always.thanks for the response.
mickim1953 3 years ago 7
You're right. He (Gene) had a way of playing with imagination rather than speed. Certainly he was fast but he was also very creative. I used to say, you could almost whistle to the "tune" he was playing. Regardles of the group around him, when he did his magic, everyone including the other musicians stopped to listen. Always with a smole. He was, musically, a great gift to the world.
Jim275 3 years ago 4
I saw Billy Cobham last year - he has to be up there too in the drummer pantheon.
lutzie200 3 years ago
HOLY CRAP!! i just saw that.
heroinerrorbassist 4 years ago
love it when gene swich his stick position
heroinerrorbassist 4 years ago
i agree that Buddy may have been more "technical " than Gene, but sure that Buddy recognized a certain creative element in Gene that he himself lacked or was not as developed.
jimn35 4 years ago
One of the best drummers in history who brought drumming out of being a background instrument.
tajiya816 4 years ago 4
Gene died in 1973 aged 63. Buddy died in 1986 also in his 60's. Louie Bellson is still going stong in his 80's.
Legends!
bgibb101 4 years ago 2
Buddy and Gene were good friends who hated these drum battles they did them because the public enjoyed them. they admired each other style and talent.
bigguy4570 4 years ago 2
Oh Contrer,,,,as in quite the opposite. They made big money doing this. They were good friends yes. But quite opposites. GEne didnt need the money. He made hundreds of 1000's of dollars which was big money in those days. Buddy spent and invested his money in the wrong ways. Always needing to play to earn his next buck. They enjoyed these. I wish you could really see some of the other ones than the few floating around. They didnt say " GO GENE GO " for nothing.
extremnod 4 years ago
Do you know of any other ones available on film? Were JATP concerts filmed regularly? I have some but none have Gene or Buddy. I am waiting for the day when Verve music gets a brain and starts releasing all of the stuff they must have.
ParadiddleMcFlam 4 years ago
I for one would like to know why people think that Buddy was so much more technical than Gene. When Gene plays fast or slow he has rhythem and a beat. Buddy on the other hand is just quick hands.
extremnod 4 years ago 2
Based on watching them I would say Buddy had a somewhat faster single stroke role and was able to play just from the wrists a little more easily than Krupa. Also Buddy, tended to play alot of left hand two-stroke right-hand one-stroke patterns, which gives a different feel. Krupa tended to do more exclusively with single-stroke roles at fast tempos. Krupa himself said somewhere that Buddy's left hand was "impossible". Personally I prefer Krupa musically.
ParadiddleMcFlam 4 years ago
Thanks for the info. I'm not even sure if Gene Quill ever played for Krupa.
pogomeister03 4 years ago
Gene sounded great! I would like to know if anybody knows if that was Gene Quill on the alto solo in the first tune?
pogomeister03 4 years ago
No,sir. That's Charlie Kennedy
annanoli 4 years ago
If it were THIS Gene Krupa battling Buddy Rich and not the older one, HE WOULD HAVE WHUPPED HIS ASS!
OpenisPrime 4 years ago 4
Im sure Buddy realizes this :)
ray8up 4 years ago
Buddy is dead!!! He died many years ago!!
vibra64 4 years ago
Technically, not even close.
Musically, hell yes.
ciminoo 4 years ago
I don't think this is mimed, he's really hitting those crashes, and there's nothing to suggest to me that there is any miming going on. It seems like he's deffinetly hitting that snare all the way through and the crashes too, and as for the hi-hat you hear while he's playing both hands on the snare, he's playing it with his foot on every beat with his bass drum.
ToddCMorgan 4 years ago
UP TILL 1:29 the drums are mimened, then it cuts to a "live" solo..then back to mime..Hell this better than Randy CRAPUTO!
dretety 4 years ago
It's strange to see him playing snare with both sticks yet it sounds like he's playing hi-hat, too.
kenrayboy 4 years ago
The Hi-hat you hear is foot work, useing your heal you can (almost) make the same sound you would make with your hand while opening the the hi hat. Its pretty standart but Krupa was one of the masters with padle work, actoually he invented it. (and the padle its self 2).
UriAg 4 years ago
It really detracts when the end is cut off, why don't they get software and smudge it out frame by frame if it is copyright (which I doubt in a public domain film)
luckyshow 4 years ago
why do they always clip off the end!!!!?
luckyshow 4 years ago
The original videoclips have some titles on the end,most typically VITAPHONE etc.they cut it off probably for copyright reasons or alike
annanoli 4 years ago
jzt gt hr..
Mdmrch 4 years ago
I can't thank you enough for posting this clip. As one of Gene's greatest fans I consider these to be two of his finest big band tracks. Thanks again.
caletaprince 4 years ago
Does any of you remembers the name of first altoist?not Charlie Kennedy,but the guy in the middle of sax section
annanoli 4 years ago
Hello,
the second altoist is Tommy Lucas (as written in a
Filmo-Discographie about Gene), Buddy Wise and Mitch Melnick are on Ts
wolffkai12 4 years ago
Thanks...baritone man should be Jack Schwartz
annanoli 4 years ago
No, in the filmographie the baritone man is Larry Patton...
Does anyone have clips from the film "night club girl" ?? In this Movie from 1948 Gene should also have great performances....Please share it to all of us gene krupa fans..We would thank you forever..
wolffkai12 4 years ago
Gene was very very good and musical/creative. I like the big sound of the drums most especially his snare is really popping loud in that big room..nice bang to the snare. BIG.
kevme 4 years ago
It just doesn't get any better!!
adman1048 5 years ago
Excellent....since it shows the more realistic band presentation with less Hollywoodish effects....On the original record, the solos were by Ventura (2 times, Don Fagerquist and Leon Cox.
rmayer821 5 years ago
Two of Gene's best arrangements. His band were always top notch and he was always kicking. Thanks for posting.
RICHN1 5 years ago
One of my favourite Krupa pieces, thanks for posting.
bennymalone 5 years ago