Great questions for one to ponder and I'd agree with your conclusion. I hope you stay on and continue to detail what you see Jane. It's an important addition to everything else.
Eek, I had such high hopes when you were talking about memetics (though not giving them a name)... but to attribute so much of our personalities to classic Skinnerian conditioning alone... ai yai yai... Trust me, there are plenty of reasons to believe that curiosity and skepticism survive to adulthood despite social inputs, not because of them. Also, there is room for argument in the assertion that dopamine alone mediates "reward" in the brain, but the broad brush works well enough for YT.
@AutodidacticPhd Actually I don't. I am not speaking to a neuro symposium (nor would I ever. I am not qualified. This is not an academic discussion . I am talking to humans engaging in some really dogdy behavior. I also make it clear I am a person that listens to podcasts not a scientist....
I don't say memetics - because I am talking to a general audience and not trying to impress anyone but to talk out loud and clarify what I am thinking about a ridiculous situation. The problem as I see it is 'certainty' is a sense that we have that is not necessarily related to actually being correct in reality - it's in our nature to feel certain about things that are certianly incorrect.
@CityzenJane Don't worry, I noticed the bits about being an enthusiast, not an expert... I am, myself, not a neuroscientist, but neuro does make up about a third of my degree and a fare chunk of my library. Anyway, I was mostly just trying to point out that you rode that Skinner pony a little hard. Of course, my last neuro class was full of behavioral psych grad students, so I may just be a bit high strung when the topic comes up.
@AutodidacticPhd I actually am not talking about Skinner or behaviorism... and it's rare that anyone would conclude I am much of a determinist about any of this stuff. But I am rather vague in this...
@CityzenJane Well, you didn't mention memes by name either... but a good chunk of what you said in this video sounds really behaviorist, whether you meant it to or not.
@CityzenJane I'm assuming you're referring to the author of "On Being Certain"... I haven't heard of him previously, though the title looks interesting. Frankly, I personally reject all claims to certainty, be they mine or other's... of course, we have to ACT certain in order to function, whether we believe in it or not.
Anyhow, until I can find some more material on this individual, I am still left feeling a strong behaviorist vibe from the video, even on my third time through.
@CityzenJane I'll tell you a little secret about "actual neuroscience"... even at the cutting edge it's still a radical over-simplification. You don't sound too far behind your average undergrad who has taken a few neuro classes.
@CityzenJane Just sayin, neurobio people can't really make all that many strong claims, so you don't have much to worry about there as yet.
I tend to get a bit squirmy when people convolve creed and race as the same issue. I simply do not see it that way at all. Strictly speaking, race is genetic, creed is memetic, and attitude towards others is memetic. As such, an attitude toward a gene and an attitude toward a meme are two totally different ballgames.
@AutodidacticPhd I am actually talking about the space between memes and genes - and genes are a bad term because they are too deterministic... This is about the epigenetics -- memetics affecting gene expression and the reinforcement of pathways - which are embedded in biology while at the same time being deeply wedded to thought patterns. Nothing about it obliterates individuality. But it does undermine the idea that - all this drama is between 'the rational West' and the 'atavistic East'..
@CityzenJane Ok, first off, how in the world do you come up with memes that affect genes?
Anyway, who cares about "the West" or "the East". That's garbage. When I say race is genetic, I mean skin colour, shape of the eye, etc... things that are largely not a matter of choice and do not fundamentally determine belief or attitude.
The Chinese say, "pretense maintained becomes reality." While such a phrase may apply to Buddhism say, no amount of pretending will ever make me Chinese.
Great questions for one to ponder and I'd agree with your conclusion. I hope you stay on and continue to detail what you see Jane. It's an important addition to everything else.
womanwheart 1 year ago
Eek, I had such high hopes when you were talking about memetics (though not giving them a name)... but to attribute so much of our personalities to classic Skinnerian conditioning alone... ai yai yai... Trust me, there are plenty of reasons to believe that curiosity and skepticism survive to adulthood despite social inputs, not because of them. Also, there is room for argument in the assertion that dopamine alone mediates "reward" in the brain, but the broad brush works well enough for YT.
AutodidacticPhd 1 year ago
@AutodidacticPhd Actually I don't. I am not speaking to a neuro symposium (nor would I ever. I am not qualified. This is not an academic discussion . I am talking to humans engaging in some really dogdy behavior. I also make it clear I am a person that listens to podcasts not a scientist....
CityzenJane 1 year ago
I don't say memetics - because I am talking to a general audience and not trying to impress anyone but to talk out loud and clarify what I am thinking about a ridiculous situation. The problem as I see it is 'certainty' is a sense that we have that is not necessarily related to actually being correct in reality - it's in our nature to feel certain about things that are certianly incorrect.
CityzenJane 1 year ago
@CityzenJane Don't worry, I noticed the bits about being an enthusiast, not an expert... I am, myself, not a neuroscientist, but neuro does make up about a third of my degree and a fare chunk of my library. Anyway, I was mostly just trying to point out that you rode that Skinner pony a little hard. Of course, my last neuro class was full of behavioral psych grad students, so I may just be a bit high strung when the topic comes up.
AutodidacticPhd 1 year ago
@AutodidacticPhd I actually am not talking about Skinner or behaviorism... and it's rare that anyone would conclude I am much of a determinist about any of this stuff. But I am rather vague in this...
CityzenJane 1 year ago
@CityzenJane Well, you didn't mention memes by name either... but a good chunk of what you said in this video sounds really behaviorist, whether you meant it to or not.
AutodidacticPhd 1 year ago
@AutodidacticPhd I am actually thinking in terms of Robert Burton's work..
CityzenJane 1 year ago
@CityzenJane I'm assuming you're referring to the author of "On Being Certain"... I haven't heard of him previously, though the title looks interesting. Frankly, I personally reject all claims to certainty, be they mine or other's... of course, we have to ACT certain in order to function, whether we believe in it or not.
Anyhow, until I can find some more material on this individual, I am still left feeling a strong behaviorist vibe from the video, even on my third time through.
AutodidacticPhd 1 year ago
@AutodidacticPhd you seem more certain and attached to the outcome here than I am "D
CityzenJane 1 year ago
@CityzenJane What makes you say that?
AutodidacticPhd 1 year ago
good to see you making videos again.
Divinity33372 1 year ago
@Divinity33372 I second that!
CousinoMacul 1 year ago
@CousinoMacul aw thanks you guys!
CityzenJane 1 year ago
admittedly - I am not quite sure what I mean by "irreducibly smaller"
time to go to sleep...
CityzenJane 1 year ago
(a radical over simplification - and my profuse apologies to any actual neurobio people out there... )
CityzenJane 1 year ago
@CityzenJane I'll tell you a little secret about "actual neuroscience"... even at the cutting edge it's still a radical over-simplification. You don't sound too far behind your average undergrad who has taken a few neuro classes.
AutodidacticPhd 1 year ago
@AutodidacticPhd .... but of course .... we are all or nearly all complete noobs in regards to what we know or what's known in the field.
I am objecting to totalizing racist language about "all Muslims" - perhaps not in a way that feels concrete or direct enough for you.
CityzenJane 1 year ago
@CityzenJane Just sayin, neurobio people can't really make all that many strong claims, so you don't have much to worry about there as yet.
I tend to get a bit squirmy when people convolve creed and race as the same issue. I simply do not see it that way at all. Strictly speaking, race is genetic, creed is memetic, and attitude towards others is memetic. As such, an attitude toward a gene and an attitude toward a meme are two totally different ballgames.
AutodidacticPhd 1 year ago
@AutodidacticPhd I am actually talking about the space between memes and genes - and genes are a bad term because they are too deterministic... This is about the epigenetics -- memetics affecting gene expression and the reinforcement of pathways - which are embedded in biology while at the same time being deeply wedded to thought patterns. Nothing about it obliterates individuality. But it does undermine the idea that - all this drama is between 'the rational West' and the 'atavistic East'..
CityzenJane 1 year ago
@CityzenJane Ok, first off, how in the world do you come up with memes that affect genes?
Anyway, who cares about "the West" or "the East". That's garbage. When I say race is genetic, I mean skin colour, shape of the eye, etc... things that are largely not a matter of choice and do not fundamentally determine belief or attitude.
The Chinese say, "pretense maintained becomes reality." While such a phrase may apply to Buddhism say, no amount of pretending will ever make me Chinese.
AutodidacticPhd 1 year ago