I'm just no good w/ typing, but I can tell you this, God loves use all, but he hates sin & know unclean thing,spirits of any-kind," will enter into heaven. May God help us all. Please forgive my spelling & typing, but read Gods words, hear him & deny yourself for the gospel of Christ the saviour, the light of the world. Ps; People" you can be set free through & by the delivering power of God . Sanctify yourselves & the God of peace will santify you holy! Strive to enter in at the straight gate!
Oops again, not the best speller or typist (Offend)Hahahaw-at -me:) Thank God," He has chosen the foolish & weak things (me) of the world, to shame the learned/strong
so that No-Flesh," may have glory before him. Bless his name! He/she who rejects Gods words through his deliver, rejects not the bringer-but God word. Luke 10:16 Let every man be a lie & Gods words be the truth.1Tim 4:1, In last days, some would turn away from the faith & follow ceducing spirits tought by devils/demons. Gods LU!
Oops again, not the best speller or typist (Offend)Hahahaw-at -me:) Thank God," He has chosen the foolish & weak things (me) of the world, to shame the learned/strong
so that No-Flesh," may have glory before him. Bless his name! He/she who rejects Gods words through his deliver, rejects not the bringer-but God word. Luke 10:16. Let every man be a lie & Gods words be the truth.1Tim 4:1, In last days, some would turn away from the faith & follow ceducing spirits tought by devils/demons. Gods LU!
Sorry to affend you with my spelling, However, Genesis Ch2:22-24, & God made woman,' not man dearhearts, from the rib of man, for the man in marriage & they, the man & woman," not man & man shall become 1 flesh. Matt Ch 4:4-6, Christ said; "Havent you read, in the beginning God made them male & female & said,' for this reason a man/male shall leave his parents & be 1 with his wife/female & the 2 become 1 flesh. 1Cor -Ch9:6 Such sins can't inharit/enter into God heaven! Better spelling?
Dear, I feel your pains of attacts against you, however 'You have been deceived . You see, 2 sockets or plugs, "cant pull any juice, just as 2 men cant procreate life together, its un-natural. I dont wont you hurt by my words in anyway, but know this, "God wonts you to be set free from these spirits, just as much as fear,adultry, hate, etc.:) All unriighteousness is sin. God gave you life, your parents, then you a lifestyle choice! Lev 18:22 Rom 1: 18, 26 27, 32. God open your eyes in love!
People," stop this human attempt to deal with this un-holy act of exceptance. You words of hate, meds, etc wont work. If you will humble yourselves and pray and seek Gods face, turn from your wicked ways church, God can and will hear from heaven and forgive your sins and heal your lands. This is a demononic spirit and must be cast out of the body, by the power of God. Christ came to save you from sin & make you a new creature thru his cleansing blood. You must be delivered by his spirit
NOT the Missouri Synod!!! Watch out --- it is going to be an issue in all churches someday! Hold fast to the truth! Yes!Gays can be saved, but should not preach. Repent and believe in Christ as your Savior. He died that the world would be saved, that includes gays! But I fear some have a different agenda--beware!! Jesus strengthen Your Church on earth, I pray!!
NOT the Missouri Synod!!! Watch out --- it is going to be an issue in all churches someday! Hold fast to the truth! Yes!Gays can be saved, but should not preach.
For an intelligent look at this latest development in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, take a look at poster jumponit125's YouTube video "Homosexuality and the ELCA Lutheran Church." It is a thoughtful and insightful exploration of the situation and how it relates to Christianity today.
@callmeishmel - I'm not judging you,the Word of God Judges all of us. As I said,his Word is Clear. It is also Unchanging,he won't go back on it! You can sugar coat it all you like but the Holy Bible says that a man that LAYS with another man as if he were a woman is an Abomination. It doesn't get any clearer than that so please don't distort or try to change God's Word to suit you. Sin is sin,no matter how big or small the end result is to perish and suffer in everlasting Hell unless we Repent.
"scripture is clear, that marriage is between a man and a woman" or many wives, and a few hundred concubines... and fun stuff like marrying the girl you rape, so that it's okay... anyone who looks to the bible for moral guidance has not read the bible, or is able to rationalize a "god" that is SO loving, and "just" it deems that an innocent creature be killed, (even it's own 'son') to cover the wrongs of another... love, murder, and suicide, all in the same container... nice mix...
He says he's been a Christian all his life but I believe he's never read the Holy Bible or else he'll see the error of his ways. The Holy Bible is CLEAR! God is LOVE but he is also JUST! He will not condone the sins of mankind. It is not for us to serve HIM as we wish but as it is WRITTEN in HIS WORD! Wake up people! Have we forgotten that homosexuality is one of the reasons God destroyed Sodoma and Gomorrah?
It also says "Thou shall not judge". Sodome and Gomorrah was not destroyed because they were all homosexuals. You are falsely assuming homosexuals "choose" to be gay, they do not.
Take out the word "homosexual" and insert the word "Leaper", everything being said now was said about Leapers and it was thought they chose to be Leapers too.... Hmmmmmm
How remarkable that, even though science has proven homosexuality is an orientation, not a psychological disorder, one can maintain that an individual or a denomination "turns" gay. Then again, what can be expected from the Christian Church, who threatened with the stake those who suggested that the earth goes around the sun and not vice versa?
@BaronPalamedeCharlus There is no scientific evidence that homosexuality is anything other than an environmentally induced condition. How exactly to Gay genes get passed along in the gene pool?
@MidNightRider2001 So what you are saying is that the enviroment can determine what makes your dick hard? So I could make myself attracted to men...providing I wanted to...because homosexuality is a choice..apparentlly.
Actually science has proven being a homosexuality is not a psychological disorder at all. Science has proven and confirmed what homosexuals have been saying through out history...they are born homosexual. Not only that but there is video and documentation showing every animal on earth can and does produce homosexual offspring from octopus to sperm whales. Its hypothesized it is one of natures way of population control. The exact cause is still unknown definitively.
Actually science has proven being a homosexuality is not a psychological disorder at all. Science has proven and confirmed what homosexuals have been saying through out history...they are born homosexual. Not only that but there is video and documentation showing every animal on earth can and does produce homosexual offspring from octopus to sperm whales. Its hypothesized it is one of natures way of population control. The exact cause is still unknown definitively.
@BaronPalamedeCharlus Science may say homosexuality is an orientation, but the Bible says it's a sin.1 Corinthians 6:9 says those who do it will NOT inherit the kingdom of God! The Church is far from perfect, but it is supposed to be God's representative here on Earth. Judgement begins in the House of God. He will not tolerate homosexuality amongst His people. If they don't repent of this or other willful sins, those in the church will go to Hell with the rest of humanity!
uh...the ELCA guy said he was gay all his life and a Christian all his life...you can't be a Christian all your life...at some point a christian decided to repent and come to God through acknowledging Jesus sacrifice....you can be a church goer all your life but you only know God through coming through acknowledging Jesus death as payment for your sin....
@dsmit902 People cannot "decide" to repent and come to faith. The sinful human nature prevents this. Our faith comes when the Holy Spirit comes to us, calls us through the Gospel, and moves us to repentance. This can happen at any time in a persons life, even inutero, as was the case with John the Baptizer as recorded in Luke chapter 1.
@PastorJPW you are right...God saves!...but I know for sure that you can walk away from salvation!....we all choose to follow God or choose not to...God does the calling...no doubt...but you can walk away...2 Tim 4:10 is an example...as is the evil slave in matt chapter 24...and if you don't respond to God's calling then you get a hardened heart
The ELCA, in my humble opinion, is NOT Lutheran. They left that ship a LONG time ago, but kept the name Lutheran for other reasons. One must be careful when distinguishing this, because what makes a Lutheran a Lutheran is A) Adherence to Scripture as the infallible Word of God, B) the Confessions of the Lutheran church as being true to Scripture, and C) a rejection of all teachings or doctrines which contradict God's Word in any way. This is why the ELCA is NOT Lutheran.
Wow, the only thing that matters less than Lutherans' opinions on homosexuality are the opinions of homophobes ragging on Lutherans. I'm more shocked that it made the news in North Dakota. Must have been a slow day.
@GodCreatesGays2 it sounds to me as if you are one of those who "[has] an agenda to spread & knew they needed to attribute [his] own opinions to God in order to do so.... [claiming] without proof to know His will." If you can discredit zeb1912's scriptures b/c they have been (as you say) corrupted, then any verses or teachings from the Bible you may be alluding to are also not credible. Therefore, these opinions of yours don't seem to have any Christian background so you can't know God's will.
Do your research, plenty of video's and science plus documentation have shown all animals produce "homosexual" offspring. It happens in nature everyday. It IS nature. Just nature doesn't use an ideology to selectively discriminate. I remember the exact same arguments when inter-racial marriage was being out-lawed and deemed a "crime against nature and the church".
themalina92, if we allowed devil-inspired, anti-gay prejudice to continue spreading, then yes, the reprobates would have overtaken and completely contaminated this great nation. Fortunately, God is opening the hearts, minds, and souls of good people across the land (and the world!), and making sure they know that, according to the Lord, gay is okay. Love thy neighbor is His creed, and those of us who love and obey the Lord, do just that.
@Godcandeliveryou No-God dint make gay men and woman of un-natural affections, this is a lie rom the devil and he has deceived many, how ever peace be unto you and all who read this not. God love the sinner, but he hates sin in you. Christ came save you from sin. Sin cant enter into heaven and such like it, however you can be set free from this powerful lust of the flesh, through much prayer and sanctifacation. People," its going to take the annointing of God to set you free!
@greats1236 writes, "God dint make gay men and woman of un-natural affections"
Of course not. God creates gay people with perfectly natural, normal homosexual desires.
"God love the sinner, but he hates sin"
I'm sure the Lord DOES love the homophobes and the racists, the KKK and the Nazis, but you have to repent your sin of bigotry, go forth and sin no more. Otherwise, you will continue to cut yourself off from God's truth, and remain blinded by Satan forever.
Wow, I was raised Lutheran and yeah... I remember doing Confirmation and the Pastor telling us to avoid divorce at all costs and that's why only 1 out of every 5 protestant marriages end in divorce compared to the national rate of over 50%. Why they went down this path, I cannot understand. This is just a mockery of the whole church.
@Monikahill1987 Where are you getting that statistic? Since protestantism is the largest religious affiliation in the nation, it seems like a mathematical impossibility. I know of a lot of protestant marriages that ended in divorce.
Cocodrilo74, God, Himself, disagrees with everything you say, so whom should I believe? The Lord, creator of all things in heaven and earth, including homosexuality? Or...you? I hope you don't mid if I side with God on this issue, and accept His choice of creating some of His children to be gay. The Lord has a great track record of being right. Of course, you do have free will, and there's no law saying that you have to agree with God and me.
@GodCreatesGays2 I don´t understand why you say that God disagrees with everything I say, you can check it on 1 of Corinthians 6:9-11, but I know that is a hard issue. Could be painfull for many people. you must to ask God directly to understand
@GodCreatesGays2 The lord's will are you kidding the scriptures are clear HOMOSEXUALITY IS SINFUL BEHAVIOR!!! YOU ARE KIDDING YOURSELF IF YOU THINK HOMOSEXUALITY IS ACCEPTABLE
Zeb, let me help educate you. The Lord has always created, loved, & kept homosexuality right here on His planet, in both the human & animal kingdom, as part of His divine plan, so His approval of gays is quite clear. The scriptures were written, edited, translated, & interpreted by fallible men, who made many errors; the idea that homosexuality is a "sin" being just one. When their words contradict the Lord's will, it's better to side with God, as I do. Why argue with Him?
@GodCreatesGays2 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
The bible is gods inspired inerrant and infalible word not mans word. man wrote it down but god told them what to right
Zeb1912, of course the men who wrote the Bible will contend that their words are accurate, even though that's already been proven not the case, & of course they will claim to be inspired by God. How else could they convince the masses to listen to them & follow their rules? They had an agenda to spread & knew they needed to attribute their own opinions to God in order to do so. History is littered with ideas of self-professed spokespeople for the Lord, who claimed without proof to know His will.
The Lutherans will become a dead church. Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.
im lutherine and we do not accept gays we love gays as people but not thier sin. They shouldnt even call themselves lutheran. Martin luther worked hard to have the church the way it should be and thanx to thoose hypocrites they distroyed all his work.
the scripture is also clear that marriage is for those who are not strong enough in their faith and devotion to Yahweh to not have sexual relation of any kind. oops
working through churches such as ELCA and you can see it in the diversity of their Church. The Missouri Synod conveniently excludes John 3:16 as well as the Book of Acts when addressing the needs of gay men and lesbian women, ALL of whom were made in God's image. In the book of Genesis we don't see a statement that God made only heterosexual men in his image.
The congregation does not issue any call! That's why we have leaders! Pastors and all clergy are supposed to understand the direction God has for them! Supposed too.
Scripture has been used to justify, among other things, the Papacy, clerical celibacy, the belief in the Real Presence, honoring the Virgin and saints, having seven sacraments, etc. If the meaning of Scripture never changes, where did the Reformation come from? Obviously, reason and intellect played some part in it , despite Luther having said that both were 'enemies of faith to be crushed and rooted out". Protestants HAVE come to new understandings of Scripture, using faith AND reason.
What????....It's ok by the Lutheran church to have gay clergy but they wont have a hetersexual woman anointed by God to be pastors.....God help us all!
@gospelgirl1964 Lutherans definitely have women pastors, Lutherans pretty much let everyone who hears their calling to be a minister to be a priest, it's the Catholics and Baptists that condemn having women as leaders in the church.
@sanhorn7892 My mother, who is Lutheran, say that in her church it is strickly forbidden. But that's what I was told. I have nothing to back that up. Maybe, just her church, I dont know.
That is only the ELCA......they are very much distinct and different from the LCMS and WELS churches. The ELCA is very liberal, like many Methodist churches and the PCUSA.
@gospelgirl1964 ...I guess I need to clerify. NO....its not ok for the Lutheran or any church to accept homosexual lifestyle. We are to LOVE THE SINNER...and hate the sin. The other is here is many godly women who could be used by the church, but the church refuses to use them because they say it is unbiblical. Did I clear the air now? I hope so.
BTWm the Lutheran Church is NOT a reformed church. It is a sect of Catholicism. The ceremonies and the beliefs are identical with very small exceptions. Luther simply believed that the Catholic church became apostate because it instituted rituals and customs it could not support by scripture.
Lutheranism is not a sect of Roman Catholicism. It's FAR, FAR, FAR closer to Calvinism/Reformed Theology. Maybe by appearance in communion and baptism, but if you read the Augsburg Confession and Westminster Confessions....they are very similar.
It is sinful for anyone to use prejudice to justify judging another, Christ is for all of us. All. Catholics need to re-evaluate their position before Christ. They are in apostacy. The papacy is apostate.
return to orthodoxy the really religion..lutheranism was invented by man by Luther who was a simply man and not soo good! the orthodoxy is from apostols since 2000 years..was not invented..we have history,tradition,monasteries,icons we have the seven mystery we have Virgin Mary!!Lutheransim is not a religion is a protest against catholic church!
"Been a Christian all my life" - you could've guessed... Right from the start the heresy begins - running directly contrary to Ephesians 2:1-2; Matthew 15:18-19; Romans 7:23 and Hebrews 6:1; 9:14.
IT is ridiculus to tell people listed in ..1corinthians 6:9-10...ephesians 5:5...Galatians 5:19-21 and Revelations 21:8 that they will be in Heaven...
You mean when they decided that complete selfishness and rape were good things? Yeah.
I don't rape. I am a very giving person who has gotten sick because he's been taking care of others and forgotten to take care of himself. I'm also gay. I've prayed for years about this. Back before I came out, I constantly pleaded with God to turn me straight. But eventually, I got a response: "Be who you are." I'll take God's current revelation to humanity over a book that is horribly mistranslated.
"It doesn't cause any detriment to their ability to minister"
Yes it does--it makes them willing and outright hypocrites in seeming to endorse a religion that speaks AGAINST homosexuality. True Christians know that we must follow Christ, not what makes us or the rest of the world comfortable. That is a part of denying ourselves for Christ!
Somebody say the Bible does not condemn the homosexuality. They are wrong. The Bible condemns homosexuality Romans 1:26 condemns 1:27 to lesbians and gay men who carried shameful actions to each other. Also the story of men of Sodoma who wanted to rape Lot's guests and Lot offered his virgin daughters to them and they not wanted them (they wanted to guests). (Genesis 19:1-12). God's punishment too. So if the Bible condemns homosexuality and those who practice or approve
Sodom was burned down because of rape and being inhospitable, not being gay. In fact, the work "know" that is used here (yadha) can only imply sex if the two parties are of opposite sex. There is another word entirely (shakhabh) that is used for homosexual contact.
The verse in Romans is about temple prostitution and pagan worship.
And before it comes up, Levitical laws do not apply to Christians; our law is Christ.
Don't twist the words in the Bible to excuse the fact that God sees same sex partners as wicked..,if someone is going to keep doing it at least call it what it is and know what the Bible says. men young and old in sodom were so perverted that they wanted lot to send out the Angels to them!
You're twisting the word, not me. The Hebrew word "yadha" is the word used in the story. This has two meanings: "to know something or someone" or "to have sex with someone of the opposite sex". "Shakhabh" is the word used for "to have sex with someone of the same sex". It's that simple. The people of Sodom wanted to know who the two strangers in their city were. It's curiosity, plain and simple.
You're messing with a linguist and someone who knows the Bible extremely well.
you can quote the bible in hebrew backwards but.... If you can't discern that lot was saying "don't do this wicked thing" and that meaning they were going to do more than as you say "know" the Angels/messengers.... then you don't have the understanding of the passage.lot would not say here is my daughter for you to "know".
That's why I'm a friendly, loving, hospitable person. I mean, that's what the people of Sodom were missing. If you really want to go with the historical meaning of the passage, then you should be anti-rape beacuse of it, not anti-gay.
Now, I'm guessing from the way you talk that you're a Fundamentalist.. There's a problem with not accepting extra-Biblical interpretations and the such: The last chapter of John. You should read the Gospels sometime. They're the true center of Christian beliefs.
No doubt your a friendly person and im not condemning your Homosexuality ,I use to be a drunk / fornacator and those kinds of people can't walk in the kingdom.Hell is full of drunks / fornacators.you first have to understand that Homosexuals will not move on to the next round and if being a fundamentalist means that I know and believe that Jesus Christ took drunkness ,fornacation and homosexuality at the cross for those who would believe it then that's me.your bound in that cause it's a bondage
Alcoholics harm their bodies and often others when they drink. Fornicators use other people for pleasure and nothing else when they are promiscuous, and also spread diseases. I'm a monogamous gay man. I don't believe in hooking up, I don't believe in drugs, and I drink once a week at the very most. I'm not harming myself, and I'm not harming others. In fact, the mere fact that I show great compassion for people and show them the love that Christ exemplified is what God truly cares about.
you know...that love you talk about is emotional and you can love one day and not talk to that person the next for a long time ,straight or not...you have to ask yourself what on earth is as important as you not loseing your soul ?....A Jesus that says" it's ok to live in sin" is NOT the Jesus Christ of the Bible it's another Jesus...The Jesus Christ of the Bible came TO TAKE SIN AWAY from the believer/disciple.
Re: The Levitical laws; when I read the Bible I see far greater warrant for convental, as opposed to dispensational, theology. In that case you would be erring in your conflation of the moral and the ceremonial laws.
OK! If I want to married 2 women; why cant I? If the other women agree and we are all adults then we should be permited to marry right? Not only that, but we should be permited to be pastors as well. If there are no boundarys then is a free for all right?
you can do what you want but ....If you claim to be a "Disciple" of Jesus Christ then you have to keep the commandments of Jesus Christ....that's what seperates the real(wheat) from the fake (tares)...Jesus said one man for one women for a disicple....sinners/unbelievers may have many wives and some say they are Christian.
Jesus never spoke on homosexuality. Paul did, as did Moses. Reading the Bible without some linguistic knowledge of the original languages and without historical context isn't really getting at what the Bible really says. Homosexuality was associated with temple prostitution and child molestation, not loving, caring, committed relationships between two people who happen to have the same genitals or gender identity
THE law of moses was given to prove sin and Jesus Christ dealt with sin as a whole and the law of moses is clear that Homosexuality is a sin ...man marries women they reproduce...it's really just that simple!
You need to have historical and cultural context to your readings of the Bible. Otherwise you couldn't possibly know what it was talking about. The laws of Moses as laid down in Leviticus (which, by the way, were only the laws for a certain sect of Jews) were specifically designed to carry on the Jewish lineage. Since gay people in those days couldn't reproduce, they saw it as a threat. Nowadays, there is artificial insemination and widespread adoption, so family lines are easily continued.
You are so off based on how to discern the whole bible ...God through the law has put all men under sin (the whole world /every generation)...only overcomers of Sin Through the Blood of Jesus Christ the last passover lamb will/ can walk in the kingdom... and men sleeping with men and wemon with wemon is wicked...I don't know what else to tell ya!
You know, it certainly doesn't feel wicked when you love someone. Though I have to ask: you're condemning me so harshly, but how pure are you? Do you eat shellfish? ork? Do you ever wear fiber blend shirts? If you do, you're breaking the Biblical law that God set down showing you how wicked you are. If you use the law to condemn, you shall yourself be condemned. That's what Jesus said. He only had two commandments, and I keep those. Besides, I'll take His word over yours any day.
Im not condemning you ...I was'nt sure if you were homosexual until you just said ti..that might be your heart or God ...I don't condemn anyone because I use to be a huge sinner myself...as for the law No man is justified by keeping it and in the new covenant the lord made all meats clean even pork with thanksgiving.you are justified "if you believe Jesus Christ took your sin nature away" that is sanctifacation in hebrews 10:14....no self righteousness it's His works in you.
I'm sure many men and women who enjoy having sex outside of marriage would say the same thing. That doesn't detract from the fact that they are violating God's creation ordinance, and His divine will as revealed throughout the Scriptures - from Genesis right through to Revelation.
I would argue that you need to have a proper understanding of the deontological system of ethics that the Bible puts forward in order to properly understand Christian morality. Homosexuality is not just sinful because of the clear philosphical reasons that would discourage its adoption as a widespread practice. Homosexuality is sinful because God has divinely decreed it as being such. It is not the significance of the law, but that of the lawgiver, that is at stake.
Something needs to be made clear: homosexuality is not a choice. I begged God for four solid years to turn me straight, yet He didn't. If He had such a problem with it, why wouldn't he remove that "temptation" from a faithful servant?
By those terms any sin you could care to mention is not a choice. I have been asking God for over a year now to help me to overcome the sin of lust, with which I particularly struggle with having been so embroiled in it prior to becoming a Christian, yet the temptation is still there. That does not mean that I should give myself over to that sin, or that that sin becomes morally acceptable after a certain period of time.
There are many reasons why God would not remove the temptations with which Christians continually struggle and if you want me to go into them I will.
The archetypal case in point is the Apostle Paul, who continually stuggled a "thorn in the flesh" that God would not remove. Some scholars have even theorised that this was homosexual lust, given that Paul never married. Scripture is littered with similar examples, another being Job, in Job Ch 1.
The Bible says that all men are born liars (Ps. 58:3). Yet the Bible also says that lying is a sin (Ex. 20:16, Dt.5:20); it further says that liars will not enter the kingdom of God (Rev. 21:27). The argument that orientation towards homosexuality somehow makes it acceptable to God could be used to excuse all sinful behavior. Such an argument destroys personal responsibility; it renders Gods law meaningless and salvation through Jesus Christ unnecessary.
The Bible consistently, and clearly, sets out homosexual activity as sinful - Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9.The Bible does not describe homosexuality as a greater sin than any other. All sin is offensive to God. Homosexuality is just one of the many things listed in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that will keep a person from the kingdom of God. Gods forgiveness is just as available to a homosexual as it is to an adulterer.
Sodom and Gomorrah was about either hospitality or rape, not homosexuality. As Christians we are not bound by Levitical laws (I'm guessing you don't follow too many yourself). Romans was about lust, not loving and committed relationships. Read the original Greek of Corinthians and you'll find that what's condemned is pederasty, not same-sex relationships as understood today.
I notice that you've ignored Genesis, which clearly shows God's pattern for sexual relationships as being one of lifelong monogamous heterosexual commitment. When taken in conjunction with the Levitical writings it is clear that homosexual gang rape was the primary sin of the men of Sodom.
These are largely the regurgitated arguments of somebody like Boswell, who spent his whole life trying, and failing (even in the opinion of secular scholars), to present a scriptural defence of homosexuality.
You commend that us to read the Gospel. Gospel in the koine greek means the Good News of God. That good news is this - that Christ Jesus died to set us free from our sins - whatever they be (in my case they were also sexual sins) and that He promised us the strength for victory over sin, including homosexuality, to all those who will believeon His name for their salvation.
The word "Gospel" is actually from the Old English "god spel", which is the translation of the Latin "bonus nuntius", which is itself a translation of the Greek "ευαγγελιον (evangelion)", all meaning "good news".
God doesn't have a problem with the individual people who are gay. God does have a problem with practicing homosexuality. He loved them enough to die for them, but they choose to cast him aside. Born gay? Possibly, but the world is sinful, you have to fight it with God.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
just for the records:
1. the bible is NOT that clearly rejecting homosexuality as so many people think!
2. even IF these 5 or 6 isolated verses were anti-gay, nothing would be more un-lutheran or heretic for that matter than simply quoting some irrelevant verses. from it's begining the lutheran church could not be clearer with it's teaching that JESUS is the word of God, NOT the bible.
3. obviously (many) MEN have problems with gays, GOD doesn't. don't confuse YOUR miscomfort with god's!
I don't understand the concern about what Muslims or any other group thinks. The question is about God's unconditional love and concern toward everyone. Even if you don't agree christians are commanded to love even their enemies.
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it." (Matthew 7:13)
In the hands of the ELCA, this scripture now means that homosexual butt sex is the "narrow path" by which to get to heaven. Think I'm making this up? Check it out for yourself:
In two Gospels Jesus holds up the biblical standard of one man and one woman in marriage as God's will. Like it or not, the revisionists who supported this apostasy are at odds with Jesus Himself.
err i would have had Luther wrestle with Moltmann and Bonhoeffer too, maybe Karl Barth for shits and giggle and I think we could get him into the ELCA but if he stayed stuck in 1520 or so then you guys can have him. That's not this world and if something is not growing then it is surely dead. No disrespect Dr. Luther, happy reformation day.. RIP
When the ELCA began ordaining & marrying homosexuals, they gave themselves over to Satan without pretense. If you are a christian, flee from this evil organization. You are disgracing Jesus Christ by sanctioning this abomination with your presence.
Man must not overturn God's word. In this case, the ELCA disregarded God's word and placed their rules in front of God's. Read the scriptures, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
so... male prostitutes aren't ok, but female ones are? The ELCA did not place their rules in front of God's, for Jesus told us that the one law that we should follow is to love one another. All they are trying to do is show the world that LOVING God's people means accepting them in God's house.
Okay, so lets get this straight. Matthew 22:37-40 (New International Version)
37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[a] 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[b] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Yes, I love God, and I am sure you do also. I have a very strong faith and life with Him. As does my family. And because of this, yes, I do think it is important to follow His commandments. But His commandments are the 10 commandments that were given to us through Moses in Exodus, and then Jesus gave us two others. Homosexuality isn't mentioned in any of those.
Read the Bible. The ELCA did place it's own law before God's. Yes Jesus says that we are to love God and each other, but then He says on that command hangs the law and the prophets. Revisionists are good at forgetting that part. What that means is that loving people does not mean telling them that whatever they want is ok. Quite to the contrary He is telling us that is that His law provides us with a means to love people.
We believe differently, MackLeeGreen. I will not tell you that I think you are wrong, just that we interpret Jesus' words differently. The prophets also said that we shouldn't eat shellfish, and I don't see a Christian force against people who do. I think it's our job as Christians to look at what Jesus Himself taught. If homosexuality were the huge abomination that Christians like yourself are making it to be that He would have mentioned it when He was here?
Ahhh the shellfish argument, that has been soundly refuted over and over again. You are making the classic revisionist error of lumping the ceremonial laws with the moral laws. Jesus deals with this in Mark 7. And I am not the one making homosexual relationships an abomination; God does through His Word. But the problem with what happened in the ELCA goes beyond sexuality, it has to do with the authority of scripture.
I lay it squarely at the fet of the Clergy of the ELCA. Scripture was taken out of context and misquoted during the entire assembly. Not one member of the clergy led the people of the assembly properly in correcting them in these errors.
Actually there was quite a few clergy who came to the microphones speaking against the proposed changes and correcting the misuse of scripture. The problem is with the leadership, ie the bishops. I lay this at Mark Hanson's feet. He could have ended this after Orlando. Actually he could have prevented it from even getting that far.
I watched quite a bit of it on my comp but did not see corrections on misuse of scripture. But yes you are right, Mainly at the feet of Bishop Hansen.
The verse is "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law and the Prophets, but to fulfill them." (Matthew 5:17) People accused Him of being a radical and trying to destroy Judaism. Please use a whole verse, and use it in context.
My truth lies between the first page of Genesis and the last page of Revelation. And in between all of those pages it says that homosexuality is a sin, an abomination unto God. If you cannot deal with that then go form your own religion, simple !!!
@regorkcorb wow, because clearly if God has a problem with someone God would prefer to have them start their own religion. I believe God would much rather believe people be sinful and have a love for Christ than go and start their own religion.
Jesus died for every SINNER! Even you! You are no greater of person for being a heterosexual. Your sins are no less than any of theirs. So if you think that they should start their own religion. go right along with them. God is love - try to act on that
Where are you getting "pedophile behaviors" from? In all my time as a Lutheran (most of my life) I've never heard of such cases. Get your facts straight, maybe?
Homosexuality is just as evil as murder, rape, lying, stealing, coveting.... etc. All sin CAN be forgiven, but if you don't repent, and SHOW that you are sorry, what good is an apology?! If you are going to CONTINUE in it, how can it be forgiven?
Why would you forgive me if I PURPOSELY keep scratching your car?!
religion has been the main reason wars have started in the history of the us.
religion has made it where people dont want to live on the same planet as one another. i believe in god (no, i didn't capitalize god) and all have same rigths to live. we have all sinned. i do not believe homosexuality is a sin nor will i ever. ♀♂ and♀♀ and♂♂ are all the same and equal in my eyes. god forgives all.
WWI,WWII, the crusades, the repeated religious wars in ireland in the past, france had a religious civil war, many of the immigrants to the americas were seeking religious freedom, the romans conquered england at a point because of the anglican church, part of the spanish exploration in the americas was to convert everybody to catholic willingly or forcebly
That's fine if you don't believe it is a sin, but this is a CHURCH we are talking about, not just your personal opinion. If the CHURCH doesn't believe what the Bible says, then there's a problem because that is their own text.
Why are there so many churches? Because everyone interprets the Bible according to their own view. The Church can choose to believe what it wishes based upon it's own view of the Bible. Apparently the ELCA changed their view. I see no conflict here, my friend.
It really boils down to the use of the historical critical method of biblical interpretation and reductionism. Either one believes the entire cannon of the Bible is wholly (and Holy!) inspired by God, or one believes it contains God words. So when one starts to discard scriptures or reduce them as IF they didn't matter, well, you get the ELCA and most mainstream Christian denominations in the U.S. Open season for Satan to rule!
god created adam & eve not adam & steve
tonguemybumb 1 week ago
I'm just no good w/ typing, but I can tell you this, God loves use all, but he hates sin & know unclean thing,spirits of any-kind," will enter into heaven. May God help us all. Please forgive my spelling & typing, but read Gods words, hear him & deny yourself for the gospel of Christ the saviour, the light of the world. Ps; People" you can be set free through & by the delivering power of God . Sanctify yourselves & the God of peace will santify you holy! Strive to enter in at the straight gate!
greats1236 4 months ago
Oops again, not the best speller or typist (Offend)Hahahaw-at -me:) Thank God," He has chosen the foolish & weak things (me) of the world, to shame the learned/strong
so that No-Flesh," may have glory before him. Bless his name! He/she who rejects Gods words through his deliver, rejects not the bringer-but God word. Luke 10:16 Let every man be a lie & Gods words be the truth.1Tim 4:1, In last days, some would turn away from the faith & follow ceducing spirits tought by devils/demons. Gods LU!
greats1236 4 months ago
Oops again, not the best speller or typist (Offend)Hahahaw-at -me:) Thank God," He has chosen the foolish & weak things (me) of the world, to shame the learned/strong
so that No-Flesh," may have glory before him. Bless his name! He/she who rejects Gods words through his deliver, rejects not the bringer-but God word. Luke 10:16. Let every man be a lie & Gods words be the truth.1Tim 4:1, In last days, some would turn away from the faith & follow ceducing spirits tought by devils/demons. Gods LU!
greats1236 4 months ago
Sorry to affend you with my spelling, However, Genesis Ch2:22-24, & God made woman,' not man dearhearts, from the rib of man, for the man in marriage & they, the man & woman," not man & man shall become 1 flesh. Matt Ch 4:4-6, Christ said; "Havent you read, in the beginning God made them male & female & said,' for this reason a man/male shall leave his parents & be 1 with his wife/female & the 2 become 1 flesh. 1Cor -Ch9:6 Such sins can't inharit/enter into God heaven! Better spelling?
greats1236 4 months ago
Dear, I feel your pains of attacts against you, however 'You have been deceived . You see, 2 sockets or plugs, "cant pull any juice, just as 2 men cant procreate life together, its un-natural. I dont wont you hurt by my words in anyway, but know this, "God wonts you to be set free from these spirits, just as much as fear,adultry, hate, etc.:) All unriighteousness is sin. God gave you life, your parents, then you a lifestyle choice! Lev 18:22 Rom 1: 18, 26 27, 32. God open your eyes in love!
greats1236 4 months ago
@greats1236 Learn to spell... it will help your argumentation skills immensely.
episcojon 4 months ago
People," stop this human attempt to deal with this un-holy act of exceptance. You words of hate, meds, etc wont work. If you will humble yourselves and pray and seek Gods face, turn from your wicked ways church, God can and will hear from heaven and forgive your sins and heal your lands. This is a demononic spirit and must be cast out of the body, by the power of God. Christ came to save you from sin & make you a new creature thru his cleansing blood. You must be delivered by his spirit
greats1236 4 months ago
NOT the Missouri Synod!!! Watch out --- it is going to be an issue in all churches someday! Hold fast to the truth! Yes!Gays can be saved, but should not preach. Repent and believe in Christ as your Savior. He died that the world would be saved, that includes gays! But I fear some have a different agenda--beware!! Jesus strengthen Your Church on earth, I pray!!
womanwonder10 4 months ago
NOT the Missouri Synod!!! Watch out --- it is going to be an issue in all churches someday! Hold fast to the truth! Yes!Gays can be saved, but should not preach.
womanwonder10 4 months ago
For an intelligent look at this latest development in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, take a look at poster jumponit125's YouTube video "Homosexuality and the ELCA Lutheran Church." It is a thoughtful and insightful exploration of the situation and how it relates to Christianity today.
RCSVirginia 7 months ago
sick juws control elca...missouri synod 2...time for nother dose of zyklon b
NakedTweensRFknHot 8 months ago
yeah the elca went down the wrong path long time ago...time to kick the lezzies and negros out the clergy and maybe the elca will be back some day
AnnFrankMustFknDie 9 months ago
@callmeishmel - I'm not judging you,the Word of God Judges all of us. As I said,his Word is Clear. It is also Unchanging,he won't go back on it! You can sugar coat it all you like but the Holy Bible says that a man that LAYS with another man as if he were a woman is an Abomination. It doesn't get any clearer than that so please don't distort or try to change God's Word to suit you. Sin is sin,no matter how big or small the end result is to perish and suffer in everlasting Hell unless we Repent.
p1nkobs3ssion 9 months ago
"scripture is clear, that marriage is between a man and a woman" or many wives, and a few hundred concubines... and fun stuff like marrying the girl you rape, so that it's okay... anyone who looks to the bible for moral guidance has not read the bible, or is able to rationalize a "god" that is SO loving, and "just" it deems that an innocent creature be killed, (even it's own 'son') to cover the wrongs of another... love, murder, and suicide, all in the same container... nice mix...
markofthebeasts 9 months ago 2
He says he's been a Christian all his life but I believe he's never read the Holy Bible or else he'll see the error of his ways. The Holy Bible is CLEAR! God is LOVE but he is also JUST! He will not condone the sins of mankind. It is not for us to serve HIM as we wish but as it is WRITTEN in HIS WORD! Wake up people! Have we forgotten that homosexuality is one of the reasons God destroyed Sodoma and Gomorrah?
p1nkobs3ssion 9 months ago
@p1nkobs3ssion
It also says "Thou shall not judge". Sodome and Gomorrah was not destroyed because they were all homosexuals. You are falsely assuming homosexuals "choose" to be gay, they do not.
Take out the word "homosexual" and insert the word "Leaper", everything being said now was said about Leapers and it was thought they chose to be Leapers too.... Hmmmmmm
callmeishmel 9 months ago
@p1nkobs3ssion too many jew faggots in the elca...time to kick them out and follow the great ODIN
NakedTweensRFknHot 8 months ago
Okay b/c the Luthern church now accepts homosexuality, you think that is somehow gonna be propoganda for terrorists.
Maybe you should go hide in a cave and wait for armageddon. Do society a favor, you stupid ignorant fuck.
PhantomF9 10 months ago 2
How remarkable that, even though science has proven homosexuality is an orientation, not a psychological disorder, one can maintain that an individual or a denomination "turns" gay. Then again, what can be expected from the Christian Church, who threatened with the stake those who suggested that the earth goes around the sun and not vice versa?
BaronPalamedeCharlus 1 year ago
@BaronPalamedeCharlus There is no scientific evidence that homosexuality is anything other than an environmentally induced condition. How exactly to Gay genes get passed along in the gene pool?
MidNightRider2001 1 year ago
@MidNightRider2001 So what you are saying is that the enviroment can determine what makes your dick hard? So I could make myself attracted to men...providing I wanted to...because homosexuality is a choice..apparentlly.
PhantomF9 10 months ago 2
@BaronPalamedeCharlus
Actually science has proven being a homosexuality is not a psychological disorder at all. Science has proven and confirmed what homosexuals have been saying through out history...they are born homosexual. Not only that but there is video and documentation showing every animal on earth can and does produce homosexual offspring from octopus to sperm whales. Its hypothesized it is one of natures way of population control. The exact cause is still unknown definitively.
callmeishmel 9 months ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
@BaronPalamedeCharlus
Actually science has proven being a homosexuality is not a psychological disorder at all. Science has proven and confirmed what homosexuals have been saying through out history...they are born homosexual. Not only that but there is video and documentation showing every animal on earth can and does produce homosexual offspring from octopus to sperm whales. Its hypothesized it is one of natures way of population control. The exact cause is still unknown definitively.
callmeishmel 9 months ago
@BaronPalamedeCharlus Science may say homosexuality is an orientation, but the Bible says it's a sin.1 Corinthians 6:9 says those who do it will NOT inherit the kingdom of God! The Church is far from perfect, but it is supposed to be God's representative here on Earth. Judgement begins in the House of God. He will not tolerate homosexuality amongst His people. If they don't repent of this or other willful sins, those in the church will go to Hell with the rest of humanity!
Eternallightbearer 8 months ago
This is false and misleading. The ELCA did NOT pass a resolution affirming gay marriage. How sad u do not check ur facts.
john62718hd 1 year ago 2
uh...the ELCA guy said he was gay all his life and a Christian all his life...you can't be a Christian all your life...at some point a christian decided to repent and come to God through acknowledging Jesus sacrifice....you can be a church goer all your life but you only know God through coming through acknowledging Jesus death as payment for your sin....
dsmit902 1 year ago
@dsmit902 People cannot "decide" to repent and come to faith. The sinful human nature prevents this. Our faith comes when the Holy Spirit comes to us, calls us through the Gospel, and moves us to repentance. This can happen at any time in a persons life, even inutero, as was the case with John the Baptizer as recorded in Luke chapter 1.
PastorJPW 1 year ago
@PastorJPW you are right...God saves!...but I know for sure that you can walk away from salvation!....we all choose to follow God or choose not to...God does the calling...no doubt...but you can walk away...2 Tim 4:10 is an example...as is the evil slave in matt chapter 24...and if you don't respond to God's calling then you get a hardened heart
dsmit902 1 year ago
The ELCA, in my humble opinion, is NOT Lutheran. They left that ship a LONG time ago, but kept the name Lutheran for other reasons. One must be careful when distinguishing this, because what makes a Lutheran a Lutheran is A) Adherence to Scripture as the infallible Word of God, B) the Confessions of the Lutheran church as being true to Scripture, and C) a rejection of all teachings or doctrines which contradict God's Word in any way. This is why the ELCA is NOT Lutheran.
petrakid 1 year ago
Wow, the only thing that matters less than Lutherans' opinions on homosexuality are the opinions of homophobes ragging on Lutherans. I'm more shocked that it made the news in North Dakota. Must have been a slow day.
CoryTheRaven 1 year ago
@GodCreatesGays2 it sounds to me as if you are one of those who "[has] an agenda to spread & knew they needed to attribute [his] own opinions to God in order to do so.... [claiming] without proof to know His will." If you can discredit zeb1912's scriptures b/c they have been (as you say) corrupted, then any verses or teachings from the Bible you may be alluding to are also not credible. Therefore, these opinions of yours don't seem to have any Christian background so you can't know God's will.
thebillhank 1 year ago
I disagree with muslims wanting to hurt people they disagree with, but I agree with them that homo"sexuality" is a crime against nature.
TitaniumByFire 1 year ago
@TitaniumByFire
Do your research, plenty of video's and science plus documentation have shown all animals produce "homosexual" offspring. It happens in nature everyday. It IS nature. Just nature doesn't use an ideology to selectively discriminate. I remember the exact same arguments when inter-racial marriage was being out-lawed and deemed a "crime against nature and the church".
callmeishmel 9 months ago
A nation going reprobate is what it seems.
themalina92 1 year ago
themalina92, if we allowed devil-inspired, anti-gay prejudice to continue spreading, then yes, the reprobates would have overtaken and completely contaminated this great nation. Fortunately, God is opening the hearts, minds, and souls of good people across the land (and the world!), and making sure they know that, according to the Lord, gay is okay. Love thy neighbor is His creed, and those of us who love and obey the Lord, do just that.
GodCreatesGays2 1 year ago
@Godcandeliveryou No-God dint make gay men and woman of un-natural affections, this is a lie rom the devil and he has deceived many, how ever peace be unto you and all who read this not. God love the sinner, but he hates sin in you. Christ came save you from sin. Sin cant enter into heaven and such like it, however you can be set free from this powerful lust of the flesh, through much prayer and sanctifacation. People," its going to take the annointing of God to set you free!
greats1236 4 months ago
@greats1236 writes, "God dint make gay men and woman of un-natural affections"
Of course not. God creates gay people with perfectly natural, normal homosexual desires.
"God love the sinner, but he hates sin"
I'm sure the Lord DOES love the homophobes and the racists, the KKK and the Nazis, but you have to repent your sin of bigotry, go forth and sin no more. Otherwise, you will continue to cut yourself off from God's truth, and remain blinded by Satan forever.
GodCreatesGays2 4 months ago
@themalina92
greats1236 4 months ago
Catholicism - The one true faith
AtomicBomb79 1 year ago
Wow, I was raised Lutheran and yeah... I remember doing Confirmation and the Pastor telling us to avoid divorce at all costs and that's why only 1 out of every 5 protestant marriages end in divorce compared to the national rate of over 50%. Why they went down this path, I cannot understand. This is just a mockery of the whole church.
Monikahill1987 1 year ago
@Monikahill1987 Where are you getting that statistic? Since protestantism is the largest religious affiliation in the nation, it seems like a mathematical impossibility. I know of a lot of protestant marriages that ended in divorce.
boriato 1 year ago
Who's the bright light who put that annoying sound track over top it all? Duh.
roulton 1 year ago
The Lutherans are following the Lord's will, accept it. The homophobia and hatred espoused by other "religions" is driven by Satan.
GodCreatesGays2 1 year ago 2
@GodCreatesGays2 you are wrong, God don't accept the gay life, because it is a lie. God created human being. been gay is your desicion......
cocodrilo74 1 year ago
Cocodrilo74, God, Himself, disagrees with everything you say, so whom should I believe? The Lord, creator of all things in heaven and earth, including homosexuality? Or...you? I hope you don't mid if I side with God on this issue, and accept His choice of creating some of His children to be gay. The Lord has a great track record of being right. Of course, you do have free will, and there's no law saying that you have to agree with God and me.
GodCreatesGays2 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@GodCreatesGays2 I don´t understand why you say that God disagrees with everything I say, you can check it on 1 of Corinthians 6:9-11, but I know that is a hard issue. Could be painfull for many people. you must to ask God directly to understand
cocodrilo74 1 year ago
@GodCreatesGays2 The lord's will are you kidding the scriptures are clear HOMOSEXUALITY IS SINFUL BEHAVIOR!!! YOU ARE KIDDING YOURSELF IF YOU THINK HOMOSEXUALITY IS ACCEPTABLE
zeb1912 1 year ago
Zeb, let me help educate you. The Lord has always created, loved, & kept homosexuality right here on His planet, in both the human & animal kingdom, as part of His divine plan, so His approval of gays is quite clear. The scriptures were written, edited, translated, & interpreted by fallible men, who made many errors; the idea that homosexuality is a "sin" being just one. When their words contradict the Lord's will, it's better to side with God, as I do. Why argue with Him?
GodCreatesGays2 1 year ago
@GodCreatesGays2 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
The bible is gods inspired inerrant and infalible word not mans word. man wrote it down but god told them what to right
zeb1912 1 year ago
Zeb1912, of course the men who wrote the Bible will contend that their words are accurate, even though that's already been proven not the case, & of course they will claim to be inspired by God. How else could they convince the masses to listen to them & follow their rules? They had an agenda to spread & knew they needed to attribute their own opinions to God in order to do so. History is littered with ideas of self-professed spokespeople for the Lord, who claimed without proof to know His will.
GodCreatesGays2 1 year ago
What a joke.
hstryshows 1 year ago
The Lutherans will become a dead church. Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.
rbmath 1 year ago
okay just to be clear this only affects ELCA lutherans, not LCMS lutherans right?
TheCampbellSuper 1 year ago
im lutherine and we do not accept gays we love gays as people but not thier sin. They shouldnt even call themselves lutheran. Martin luther worked hard to have the church the way it should be and thanx to thoose hypocrites they distroyed all his work.
Zenaida193 1 year ago
the scripture is also clear that marriage is for those who are not strong enough in their faith and devotion to Yahweh to not have sexual relation of any kind. oops
RavenBlaze 1 year ago
working through churches such as ELCA and you can see it in the diversity of their Church. The Missouri Synod conveniently excludes John 3:16 as well as the Book of Acts when addressing the needs of gay men and lesbian women, ALL of whom were made in God's image. In the book of Genesis we don't see a statement that God made only heterosexual men in his image.
gtrnr 1 year ago
The congregation does not issue any call! That's why we have leaders! Pastors and all clergy are supposed to understand the direction God has for them! Supposed too.
DanielHeartland 1 year ago
Scripture has been used to justify, among other things, the Papacy, clerical celibacy, the belief in the Real Presence, honoring the Virgin and saints, having seven sacraments, etc. If the meaning of Scripture never changes, where did the Reformation come from? Obviously, reason and intellect played some part in it , despite Luther having said that both were 'enemies of faith to be crushed and rooted out". Protestants HAVE come to new understandings of Scripture, using faith AND reason.
lichtbroeder 1 year ago
What????....It's ok by the Lutheran church to have gay clergy but they wont have a hetersexual woman anointed by God to be pastors.....God help us all!
gospelgirl1964 1 year ago
@gospelgirl1964 Lutherans and other churches have stopped reading their Bible and started listening to the world. Lord help us!
gospelgirl1964 1 year ago
@gospelgirl1964 Lutherans definitely have women pastors, Lutherans pretty much let everyone who hears their calling to be a minister to be a priest, it's the Catholics and Baptists that condemn having women as leaders in the church.
sanhorn7892 1 year ago
@sanhorn7892 My mother, who is Lutheran, say that in her church it is strickly forbidden. But that's what I was told. I have nothing to back that up. Maybe, just her church, I dont know.
gospelgirl1964 1 year ago
@gospelgirl1964
It's forbidden for a reason. Why? Because it's all over the bible. Homosexuality is a sin!
What do you mean you can't back it up? Read the bible!
DanielHeartland 1 year ago
@sanhorn7892
That is only the ELCA......they are very much distinct and different from the LCMS and WELS churches. The ELCA is very liberal, like many Methodist churches and the PCUSA.
kamaujackson811 1 year ago
@gospelgirl1964 ...I guess I need to clerify. NO....its not ok for the Lutheran or any church to accept homosexual lifestyle. We are to LOVE THE SINNER...and hate the sin. The other is here is many godly women who could be used by the church, but the church refuses to use them because they say it is unbiblical. Did I clear the air now? I hope so.
gospelgirl1964 1 year ago
BTWm the Lutheran Church is NOT a reformed church. It is a sect of Catholicism. The ceremonies and the beliefs are identical with very small exceptions. Luther simply believed that the Catholic church became apostate because it instituted rituals and customs it could not support by scripture.
larjenn1 1 year ago
@larjenn1
Lutheranism is not a sect of Roman Catholicism. It's FAR, FAR, FAR closer to Calvinism/Reformed Theology. Maybe by appearance in communion and baptism, but if you read the Augsburg Confession and Westminster Confessions....they are very similar.
kamaujackson811 1 year ago
It is sinful for anyone to use prejudice to justify judging another, Christ is for all of us. All. Catholics need to re-evaluate their position before Christ. They are in apostacy. The papacy is apostate.
larjenn1 1 year ago
return to orthodoxy the really religion..lutheranism was invented by man by Luther who was a simply man and not soo good! the orthodoxy is from apostols since 2000 years..was not invented..we have history,tradition,monasteries,icons we have the seven mystery we have Virgin Mary!!Lutheransim is not a religion is a protest against catholic church!
mikigrecu 1 year ago
"Been a Christian all my life" - you could've guessed... Right from the start the heresy begins - running directly contrary to Ephesians 2:1-2; Matthew 15:18-19; Romans 7:23 and Hebrews 6:1; 9:14.
QuisSeperabit60 1 year ago
IT is ridiculus to tell people listed in ..1corinthians 6:9-10...ephesians 5:5...Galatians 5:19-21 and Revelations 21:8 that they will be in Heaven...
christophorM 2 years ago
Comment removed
christophorM 2 years ago
Damn faggots...........
lcr1955 2 years ago
You mean when they decided that complete selfishness and rape were good things? Yeah.
I don't rape. I am a very giving person who has gotten sick because he's been taking care of others and forgotten to take care of himself. I'm also gay. I've prayed for years about this. Back before I came out, I constantly pleaded with God to turn me straight. But eventually, I got a response: "Be who you are." I'll take God's current revelation to humanity over a book that is horribly mistranslated.
taytsay 2 years ago
God is never going to contradict His word ,you might have heard a voice speak to your mind but that is not what God would tell you.
christophorM 2 years ago
"It doesn't cause any detriment to their ability to minister"
Yes it does--it makes them willing and outright hypocrites in seeming to endorse a religion that speaks AGAINST homosexuality. True Christians know that we must follow Christ, not what makes us or the rest of the world comfortable. That is a part of denying ourselves for Christ!
RedFlower26 2 years ago
Somebody say the Bible does not condemn the homosexuality. They are wrong. The Bible condemns homosexuality Romans 1:26 condemns 1:27 to lesbians and gay men who carried shameful actions to each other. Also the story of men of Sodoma who wanted to rape Lot's guests and Lot offered his virgin daughters to them and they not wanted them (they wanted to guests). (Genesis 19:1-12). God's punishment too. So if the Bible condemns homosexuality and those who practice or approve
.
MeditadorCristiano 2 years ago
Sodom was burned down because of rape and being inhospitable, not being gay. In fact, the work "know" that is used here (yadha) can only imply sex if the two parties are of opposite sex. There is another word entirely (shakhabh) that is used for homosexual contact.
The verse in Romans is about temple prostitution and pagan worship.
And before it comes up, Levitical laws do not apply to Christians; our law is Christ.
taytsay 2 years ago
Don't twist the words in the Bible to excuse the fact that God sees same sex partners as wicked..,if someone is going to keep doing it at least call it what it is and know what the Bible says. men young and old in sodom were so perverted that they wanted lot to send out the Angels to them!
christophorM 2 years ago
You're twisting the word, not me. The Hebrew word "yadha" is the word used in the story. This has two meanings: "to know something or someone" or "to have sex with someone of the opposite sex". "Shakhabh" is the word used for "to have sex with someone of the same sex". It's that simple. The people of Sodom wanted to know who the two strangers in their city were. It's curiosity, plain and simple.
You're messing with a linguist and someone who knows the Bible extremely well.
taytsay 2 years ago
you can quote the bible in hebrew backwards but.... If you can't discern that lot was saying "don't do this wicked thing" and that meaning they were going to do more than as you say "know" the Angels/messengers.... then you don't have the understanding of the passage.lot would not say here is my daughter for you to "know".
christophorM 2 years ago
That's why I'm a friendly, loving, hospitable person. I mean, that's what the people of Sodom were missing. If you really want to go with the historical meaning of the passage, then you should be anti-rape beacuse of it, not anti-gay.
Now, I'm guessing from the way you talk that you're a Fundamentalist.. There's a problem with not accepting extra-Biblical interpretations and the such: The last chapter of John. You should read the Gospels sometime. They're the true center of Christian beliefs.
taytsay 2 years ago
No doubt your a friendly person and im not condemning your Homosexuality ,I use to be a drunk / fornacator and those kinds of people can't walk in the kingdom.Hell is full of drunks / fornacators.you first have to understand that Homosexuals will not move on to the next round and if being a fundamentalist means that I know and believe that Jesus Christ took drunkness ,fornacation and homosexuality at the cross for those who would believe it then that's me.your bound in that cause it's a bondage
christophorM 2 years ago
Alcoholics harm their bodies and often others when they drink. Fornicators use other people for pleasure and nothing else when they are promiscuous, and also spread diseases. I'm a monogamous gay man. I don't believe in hooking up, I don't believe in drugs, and I drink once a week at the very most. I'm not harming myself, and I'm not harming others. In fact, the mere fact that I show great compassion for people and show them the love that Christ exemplified is what God truly cares about.
taytsay 2 years ago
you know...that love you talk about is emotional and you can love one day and not talk to that person the next for a long time ,straight or not...you have to ask yourself what on earth is as important as you not loseing your soul ?....A Jesus that says" it's ok to live in sin" is NOT the Jesus Christ of the Bible it's another Jesus...The Jesus Christ of the Bible came TO TAKE SIN AWAY from the believer/disciple.
christophorM 2 years ago
@taytsay
Re: The Levitical laws; when I read the Bible I see far greater warrant for convental, as opposed to dispensational, theology. In that case you would be erring in your conflation of the moral and the ceremonial laws.
QuisSeperabit60 1 year ago
OK! If I want to married 2 women; why cant I? If the other women agree and we are all adults then we should be permited to marry right? Not only that, but we should be permited to be pastors as well. If there are no boundarys then is a free for all right?
iclgp 2 years ago
The difference is the fact that most polygamous relationships turn out to be abusive institutions in which the women are severely oppressed.
taytsay 2 years ago
you can do what you want but ....If you claim to be a "Disciple" of Jesus Christ then you have to keep the commandments of Jesus Christ....that's what seperates the real(wheat) from the fake (tares)...Jesus said one man for one women for a disicple....sinners/unbelievers may have many wives and some say they are Christian.
christophorM 2 years ago
Jesus never spoke on homosexuality. Paul did, as did Moses. Reading the Bible without some linguistic knowledge of the original languages and without historical context isn't really getting at what the Bible really says. Homosexuality was associated with temple prostitution and child molestation, not loving, caring, committed relationships between two people who happen to have the same genitals or gender identity
taytsay 2 years ago
THE law of moses was given to prove sin and Jesus Christ dealt with sin as a whole and the law of moses is clear that Homosexuality is a sin ...man marries women they reproduce...it's really just that simple!
christophorM 2 years ago
You need to have historical and cultural context to your readings of the Bible. Otherwise you couldn't possibly know what it was talking about. The laws of Moses as laid down in Leviticus (which, by the way, were only the laws for a certain sect of Jews) were specifically designed to carry on the Jewish lineage. Since gay people in those days couldn't reproduce, they saw it as a threat. Nowadays, there is artificial insemination and widespread adoption, so family lines are easily continued.
taytsay 2 years ago
You are so off based on how to discern the whole bible ...God through the law has put all men under sin (the whole world /every generation)...only overcomers of Sin Through the Blood of Jesus Christ the last passover lamb will/ can walk in the kingdom... and men sleeping with men and wemon with wemon is wicked...I don't know what else to tell ya!
christophorM 2 years ago
You know, it certainly doesn't feel wicked when you love someone. Though I have to ask: you're condemning me so harshly, but how pure are you? Do you eat shellfish? ork? Do you ever wear fiber blend shirts? If you do, you're breaking the Biblical law that God set down showing you how wicked you are. If you use the law to condemn, you shall yourself be condemned. That's what Jesus said. He only had two commandments, and I keep those. Besides, I'll take His word over yours any day.
taytsay 2 years ago
Im not condemning you ...I was'nt sure if you were homosexual until you just said ti..that might be your heart or God ...I don't condemn anyone because I use to be a huge sinner myself...as for the law No man is justified by keeping it and in the new covenant the lord made all meats clean even pork with thanksgiving.you are justified "if you believe Jesus Christ took your sin nature away" that is sanctifacation in hebrews 10:14....no self righteousness it's His works in you.
christophorM 2 years ago
@taytsay
I'm sure many men and women who enjoy having sex outside of marriage would say the same thing. That doesn't detract from the fact that they are violating God's creation ordinance, and His divine will as revealed throughout the Scriptures - from Genesis right through to Revelation.
QuisSeperabit60 1 year ago
@taytsay
I would argue that you need to have a proper understanding of the deontological system of ethics that the Bible puts forward in order to properly understand Christian morality. Homosexuality is not just sinful because of the clear philosphical reasons that would discourage its adoption as a widespread practice. Homosexuality is sinful because God has divinely decreed it as being such. It is not the significance of the law, but that of the lawgiver, that is at stake.
QuisSeperabit60 1 year ago
Something needs to be made clear: homosexuality is not a choice. I begged God for four solid years to turn me straight, yet He didn't. If He had such a problem with it, why wouldn't he remove that "temptation" from a faithful servant?
taytsay 1 year ago
@taytsay
By those terms any sin you could care to mention is not a choice. I have been asking God for over a year now to help me to overcome the sin of lust, with which I particularly struggle with having been so embroiled in it prior to becoming a Christian, yet the temptation is still there. That does not mean that I should give myself over to that sin, or that that sin becomes morally acceptable after a certain period of time.
QuisSeperabit60 1 year ago
@taytsay
There are many reasons why God would not remove the temptations with which Christians continually struggle and if you want me to go into them I will.
The archetypal case in point is the Apostle Paul, who continually stuggled a "thorn in the flesh" that God would not remove. Some scholars have even theorised that this was homosexual lust, given that Paul never married. Scripture is littered with similar examples, another being Job, in Job Ch 1.
QuisSeperabit60 1 year ago
@taytsay
Temptation is not a choice, but commission always is.
QuisSeperabit60 1 year ago
@taytsay
The Bible says that all men are born liars (Ps. 58:3). Yet the Bible also says that lying is a sin (Ex. 20:16, Dt.5:20); it further says that liars will not enter the kingdom of God (Rev. 21:27). The argument that orientation towards homosexuality somehow makes it acceptable to God could be used to excuse all sinful behavior. Such an argument destroys personal responsibility; it renders Gods law meaningless and salvation through Jesus Christ unnecessary.
QuisSeperabit60 1 year ago
@taytsay
The Bible consistently, and clearly, sets out homosexual activity as sinful - Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9.The Bible does not describe homosexuality as a greater sin than any other. All sin is offensive to God. Homosexuality is just one of the many things listed in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that will keep a person from the kingdom of God. Gods forgiveness is just as available to a homosexual as it is to an adulterer.
QuisSeperabit60 1 year ago
Sodom and Gomorrah was about either hospitality or rape, not homosexuality. As Christians we are not bound by Levitical laws (I'm guessing you don't follow too many yourself). Romans was about lust, not loving and committed relationships. Read the original Greek of Corinthians and you'll find that what's condemned is pederasty, not same-sex relationships as understood today.
taytsay 1 year ago
I notice that you've ignored Genesis, which clearly shows God's pattern for sexual relationships as being one of lifelong monogamous heterosexual commitment. When taken in conjunction with the Levitical writings it is clear that homosexual gang rape was the primary sin of the men of Sodom.
These are largely the regurgitated arguments of somebody like Boswell, who spent his whole life trying, and failing (even in the opinion of secular scholars), to present a scriptural defence of homosexuality.
QuisSeperabit60 1 year ago
@taytsay
You commend that us to read the Gospel. Gospel in the koine greek means the Good News of God. That good news is this - that Christ Jesus died to set us free from our sins - whatever they be (in my case they were also sexual sins) and that He promised us the strength for victory over sin, including homosexuality, to all those who will believeon His name for their salvation.
QuisSeperabit60 1 year ago
The word "Gospel" is actually from the Old English "god spel", which is the translation of the Latin "bonus nuntius", which is itself a translation of the Greek "ευαγγελιον (evangelion)", all meaning "good news".
taytsay 1 year ago
God doesn't have a problem with the individual people who are gay. God does have a problem with practicing homosexuality. He loved them enough to die for them, but they choose to cast him aside. Born gay? Possibly, but the world is sinful, you have to fight it with God.
StatuesBleedingGreen 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
just for the records:
1. the bible is NOT that clearly rejecting homosexuality as so many people think!
2. even IF these 5 or 6 isolated verses were anti-gay, nothing would be more un-lutheran or heretic for that matter than simply quoting some irrelevant verses. from it's begining the lutheran church could not be clearer with it's teaching that JESUS is the word of God, NOT the bible.
3. obviously (many) MEN have problems with gays, GOD doesn't. don't confuse YOUR miscomfort with god's!
luxus1977 2 years ago
Have you watched that video about the tornado and stuff? It has the verses there and God clearly condemns homosexuality.
You can't say the verses are irrelevant. What makes a verse relevant? Look at the verse and then look at the verses surrounding it.
When you say "JESUS is the word of God, NOT the bible" then how do we know the word of God aside from the bible?
StatuesBleedingGreen 2 years ago
I believe in love i believe in god... LOVE IS UNIVERSAL AND ACROSS ALL BOUNDS, Gays are children of god
JoeyBoya 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Lutherans are not true Christians. Only Calvinists are truly Christian.
DarrelfromZeeland 2 years ago
Caraculas, esse mundo vai de fato acabar! Isso é um absurdo... só ouvir o bicha falando já doi nos ouvidos! Que Deus tenha misericordia!
pescadorii 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
♀+♂=love
♂+♂=love
♀+♀=love
that is my concrete opinion
no one person or group or torture will make me think otherwise
fellvarg 2 years ago
God's love is unconditional. But some people won't be loved.
Oh. And btw... the ELCA is not, in any meaningful sense, Lutheran.
bobwaters 2 years ago
I don't understand the concern about what Muslims or any other group thinks. The question is about God's unconditional love and concern toward everyone. Even if you don't agree christians are commanded to love even their enemies.
bernhardkirt 2 years ago
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it." (Matthew 7:13)
In the hands of the ELCA, this scripture now means that homosexual butt sex is the "narrow path" by which to get to heaven. Think I'm making this up? Check it out for yourself:
watch?v=Ug11ZyHIu24
MaryWaterton 2 years ago
Please stop using Jesus to justify your prejudices.
NoLBe1 2 years ago
Please stop using Jesus to justify your rebellion.
MaryWaterton 2 years ago
Hm, do I know you? That's a pretty heavy claim to make to a stranger.
NoLBe1 2 years ago
In two Gospels Jesus holds up the biblical standard of one man and one woman in marriage as God's will. Like it or not, the revisionists who supported this apostasy are at odds with Jesus Himself.
MackLeeGreen 2 years ago
6. fix pilot saga cont cont cont.........
err i would have had Luther wrestle with Moltmann and Bonhoeffer too, maybe Karl Barth for shits and giggle and I think we could get him into the ELCA but if he stayed stuck in 1520 or so then you guys can have him. That's not this world and if something is not growing then it is surely dead. No disrespect Dr. Luther, happy reformation day.. RIP
crimthann86 2 years ago
When the ELCA began ordaining & marrying homosexuals, they gave themselves over to Satan without pretense. If you are a christian, flee from this evil organization. You are disgracing Jesus Christ by sanctioning this abomination with your presence.
MaryWaterton 2 years ago 3
So you believe in the whole Bible, Mary? That we should do as it says?
IantoCross 2 years ago
I'm a Lutheran, proud of it, and I am not even gay.
crimthann86 2 years ago
Be proud to be ELCA, it is your choice after all!
pilot4321 2 years ago
BTW, I'll stick with my pre-modern worldview of being a proud "Confessional, Orthodox Lutheran" thank you very much.
pilot4321 2 years ago
and orthodox Lutheran stand would be that there is very little 'choice' if any..
crimthann86 2 years ago
You got one right for a change! Good job!
pilot4321 2 years ago
so weird that this is even an issue. people are crazy.
schneideat30 2 years ago
Man must not overturn God's word. In this case, the ELCA disregarded God's word and placed their rules in front of God's. Read the scriptures, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
10grit 2 years ago
so... male prostitutes aren't ok, but female ones are? The ELCA did not place their rules in front of God's, for Jesus told us that the one law that we should follow is to love one another. All they are trying to do is show the world that LOVING God's people means accepting them in God's house.
NoLBe1 2 years ago
Okay, so lets get this straight. Matthew 22:37-40 (New International Version)
37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[a] 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[b] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
10grit 2 years ago
Yes, this is the passage I was referring to.
NoLBe1 2 years ago
Do you love God? I am sure you do. If you love God, then don't you think it is important to obey his commandments?
10grit 2 years ago
Yes, I love God, and I am sure you do also. I have a very strong faith and life with Him. As does my family. And because of this, yes, I do think it is important to follow His commandments. But His commandments are the 10 commandments that were given to us through Moses in Exodus, and then Jesus gave us two others. Homosexuality isn't mentioned in any of those.
NoLBe1 2 years ago
Read the Bible. The ELCA did place it's own law before God's. Yes Jesus says that we are to love God and each other, but then He says on that command hangs the law and the prophets. Revisionists are good at forgetting that part. What that means is that loving people does not mean telling them that whatever they want is ok. Quite to the contrary He is telling us that is that His law provides us with a means to love people.
MackLeeGreen 2 years ago
We believe differently, MackLeeGreen. I will not tell you that I think you are wrong, just that we interpret Jesus' words differently. The prophets also said that we shouldn't eat shellfish, and I don't see a Christian force against people who do. I think it's our job as Christians to look at what Jesus Himself taught. If homosexuality were the huge abomination that Christians like yourself are making it to be that He would have mentioned it when He was here?
NoLBe1 2 years ago
Ahhh the shellfish argument, that has been soundly refuted over and over again. You are making the classic revisionist error of lumping the ceremonial laws with the moral laws. Jesus deals with this in Mark 7. And I am not the one making homosexual relationships an abomination; God does through His Word. But the problem with what happened in the ELCA goes beyond sexuality, it has to do with the authority of scripture.
MackLeeGreen 2 years ago
I lay it squarely at the fet of the Clergy of the ELCA. Scripture was taken out of context and misquoted during the entire assembly. Not one member of the clergy led the people of the assembly properly in correcting them in these errors.
regorkcorb 2 years ago
Actually there was quite a few clergy who came to the microphones speaking against the proposed changes and correcting the misuse of scripture. The problem is with the leadership, ie the bishops. I lay this at Mark Hanson's feet. He could have ended this after Orlando. Actually he could have prevented it from even getting that far.
MackLeeGreen 2 years ago
I watched quite a bit of it on my comp but did not see corrections on misuse of scripture. But yes you are right, Mainly at the feet of Bishop Hansen.
regorkcorb 2 years ago
If you would take the time to read it, He said, "I come not to change the Law" The law was laid down in leviticus.
regorkcorb 2 years ago
The verse is "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law and the Prophets, but to fulfill them." (Matthew 5:17) People accused Him of being a radical and trying to destroy Judaism. Please use a whole verse, and use it in context.
taytsay 2 years ago
Depending on which bible you read. The one I was reading at the time, the quote is correct.
regorkcorb 2 years ago
The lutherans are finally on the right track... God bless them
JoeyBoya 2 years ago
If you consider the right track is the track to hell then yes you are right.
regorkcorb 2 years ago
Your sad! Hope you wake up one day look around and realize truth
JoeyBoya 2 years ago
My truth lies between the first page of Genesis and the last page of Revelation. And in between all of those pages it says that homosexuality is a sin, an abomination unto God. If you cannot deal with that then go form your own religion, simple !!!
regorkcorb 2 years ago
@regorkcorb wow, because clearly if God has a problem with someone God would prefer to have them start their own religion. I believe God would much rather believe people be sinful and have a love for Christ than go and start their own religion.
Jesus died for every SINNER! Even you! You are no greater of person for being a heterosexual. Your sins are no less than any of theirs. So if you think that they should start their own religion. go right along with them. God is love - try to act on that
wow1446 1 year ago
Philatanus : Demon who assists Belial in sodomy and pedophile behaviors is alive and well and running the Lutheran Church....sad!
bellringer64 2 years ago
Where are you getting "pedophile behaviors" from? In all my time as a Lutheran (most of my life) I've never heard of such cases. Get your facts straight, maybe?
NoLBe1 2 years ago
Homosexuality is just as evil as murder, rape, lying, stealing, coveting.... etc. All sin CAN be forgiven, but if you don't repent, and SHOW that you are sorry, what good is an apology?! If you are going to CONTINUE in it, how can it be forgiven?
Why would you forgive me if I PURPOSELY keep scratching your car?!
Descipleofchrist101 2 years ago
butt-bandits rejoice !!!
slickskillet123 2 years ago
religion has been the main reason wars have started in the history of the us.
religion has made it where people dont want to live on the same planet as one another. i believe in god (no, i didn't capitalize god) and all have same rigths to live. we have all sinned. i do not believe homosexuality is a sin nor will i ever. ♀♂ and♀♀ and♂♂ are all the same and equal in my eyes. god forgives all.
that's my opinion
fellvarg 2 years ago
Do you have a history degree? How do you know this? It seems to me that you know neither history nor human nature.
MidNightRider2001 2 years ago
why do you say i dont know humanity.
fellvarg 2 years ago
Name ten wars started by religion.
KFCHaunting 2 years ago 4
WWI,WWII, the crusades, the repeated religious wars in ireland in the past, france had a religious civil war, many of the immigrants to the americas were seeking religious freedom, the romans conquered england at a point because of the anglican church, part of the spanish exploration in the americas was to convert everybody to catholic willingly or forcebly
fellvarg 2 years ago
WWI & WWII really? No historians see it that way. You lose.
KFCHaunting 2 years ago 2
WWII holocaust killed thousands of jewish people
WWI many ottomans killed christians thinking christians were the enemies
fellvarg 2 years ago
Yes, God does forgive, but you have to admit it is a sin first before you can accept the grace of God. They don't seem to believe this is a sin.
MrsSarb 2 years ago
homosexuality is not a sin nor will it ever
i dont care wat the bible says the bible could have been made by someone who thought he had visions but in my book freedom is the best religion
fellvarg 2 years ago
That's fine if you don't believe it is a sin, but this is a CHURCH we are talking about, not just your personal opinion. If the CHURCH doesn't believe what the Bible says, then there's a problem because that is their own text.
MrsSarb 2 years ago
Some people interpreut it to be a sin... i believe they are radicals, Some also believe women wearing pants is a sin?
JoeyBoya 2 years ago
Why are there so many churches? Because everyone interprets the Bible according to their own view. The Church can choose to believe what it wishes based upon it's own view of the Bible. Apparently the ELCA changed their view. I see no conflict here, my friend.
IantoCross 2 years ago 2
Only a conflict with what God holds true!
pilot4321 2 years ago
wrong, pilot4321. it's a conflict with what YOU think God holds true!
IantoCross 2 years ago
It really boils down to the use of the historical critical method of biblical interpretation and reductionism. Either one believes the entire cannon of the Bible is wholly (and Holy!) inspired by God, or one believes it contains God words. So when one starts to discard scriptures or reduce them as IF they didn't matter, well, you get the ELCA and most mainstream Christian denominations in the U.S. Open season for Satan to rule!
pilot4321 2 years ago