There is a video by a ex- Mormon by the name of Bill Schnoebelen called Mormonisn:The Temple of Doom this video exposes Mormon as a cult to its very core.Let the evidence show,you can defend your fasith all you want to,like said history books do not lie.I am not against Mormons,God still loves them,it is the system that enslaves them,there are wonderful Mormons that are serving God to their best of their knowledge,the same thing goes for Catholics.Thank you
I'm crying right now as i LMFAO. History books do not lie? You are a lemming... You will believe anything that agrees with your opinion and deny anything that does not lock step.
@Sk8er408 ha!ha! it was so funny that i forgot to laugh.the thing i don't believe laman was the father of the american indians as perceived by your church.don't tell me bunch of lies when there is no scientific proof of him(laman) being the father.if he is then he must have 25 million wives to father all these so called children.thank you
You really do not know much do you? The people in the BoM (Lehi, Lamans dad) were not alone when they got here. If i remember right they were only one of at least 3 groups talked about.
@Sk8er408 talk about ignornance.show me in the bible and the bible only where it says that only three came to this new world.my ancestors came to the americas via the bering strait,not through a fictional character by the name of lehi or laman.i am no ignorant injun,our oral history will prove other wise as well as scientific.
LOL... show me where the bible says your ancestors come by the bering strait?
You are ignorant when you want only proof from the bible then claim something that is not supported by the bible... ignorance is the double standard you hold without even knowing it.
@Sk8er408 ha!Ha! i want proof from the bible only where these three fictional characters(lehi and his two sons came from). your ignorance is double standard too,so don't talk to me your own ignorance,when you don't have proof of your own either.just beat it.
LOL... I dont think you have the smarts when it comes to what the bible teaches. You are too focused on your own understanding to listen to anything that you do not want to believe. Y Our pride will make you deny G-d himself when you stand before him.
@Sk8er408 The Bible never mentions the American Indians crossing the Bering Strait and it is silent about it. But the United States is in Bible prophecy. The Bible says: “An I beheld another beast coming out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.” Rev. 13:11 Read Foxe's Book of Martyrs
@Sk8er408 The Bible says: “For the word of God is quick and powerful and sharper like than any two edged sword,piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” Hebrews 4:12
@Sk8er408 Wanna know something about Lehi in the Bible: The Bible says: “Then the Philistines went up, and pitched in Judah, and spread themselves in Lehi.” Judges 15:9 According to Strong's Concordance #3896 of the Hebrew dictionary it says it is a place in Palestine, it does not mention a man
@Sk8er408 The Bible says: “And when he came into Lehi, the Philistines shouted against him.” Judges 15:14 (first part) According to Strong's Concordance #3896 of the Hebrew dictionary it says it is a place in Palestine, it does not mention a man
@Sk8er408 The Bible says: “Wherefore he called thereof Enhakkore,which is in Lehi unto this day.” Judges 15:19 (last part) According to Strong's Concordance #3896 of the Hebrew dictionary it says it is a place in Palestine, it does not mention a man
@Sk8er408 The name Lemuel is found at Proverbs 31:1,4 it is an symbolic name for King Solomon The Bible says: The words of King Lemuel, the prophecy that his mother taught him.” Proverbs 31:1 It is not kings,O Lemuel it is not for kings to drink wine, nor princes strong drink.” Proverbs 31:4
@Sk8er408 Thanks for waking me up,I'll debate you anything from the Bible, to see who is ignorant. You talk and walk around like a fool,parading yourself in front of the whole world. Never put a person down when he or she is down. The Bible says: “He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool:but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.” Proverbs 28:26
You can defend your faith all you want to let the evidence show,and be proven again and again.Show video about Mormonisn all you want to,history does not lie.The Facts are the Facts and that it has been proven and it does not lie.The Mormon Church in Salt Lake City have masonic symbols and it has been proven by various people like Prof. Walter Veith and Tex Marre.Mormons are deceived because the truth hurts and they don't want to admit it.You cannot win against the Almighty God and His truth.
Losing which battle? The battle claiming that God is a created being against the Almighty infinite God who is the creator of all things seen and unseen? Or the battle against doctrines of men becoming Gods? We know what happened to the angel who sought the throne of Godhood.
Can you show me one pre-columbian horse, coin, metallic weapon, or any substantive evidence for the massive civilization that's claimed in the book of mormon? That preferable doesn't try to make mesoamerican culture into something it wasn't.
The "battle" is not between mormon and un-mormon but between the Truth that heals and beliefs that don't. Mormon is the belief of secret mental necromacy/hypnotism enforced by untiring mental suggestive force that the untrained thought is ignorant of which renders it easy prey. The Science of the Christ with its love and Spirit disposes such practice, reinstates perfect individuality, elevates human consciousness up towards its extinction in the knowing of the one universal Mind GOD.
Hypnotism is subtle. Jesus knew his unity with divine LOVE which is universal. He did not ritualize, mythicize or wear special underwear. He did not manipulate, dominate, or excommunicate the people from GOD. He declared the wicked, sinful nature of phoney, authoritarian religion; he did not merchandise hypocrisy but soundly denounced it. He did not market his beliefs in a slick pretty package but told it like it was healing human suffering everywhere he went. Is that Mormon? I think not?
One has to understand how the Mormons accept the programming of their sect. To research Mormon history in its truth is to see what it is in truth, namely its associations with necromancy and utter lack of the healing Christ. This stuff has no backbone and is devoid of divinity.
Necromancy? Yeah and Jesus Christ was a zombie. I guess I see where necromancy comes into play!
pfft. Anti-Mormons and their bat-shit crazy nonsense.
Most Anti-Mormons I know happen to be Atheists, Marxists, and Nihilists. The rest are just bat-shit Evangelicals who are sheople when worshiping their God. (very irreverent people) and don't think I've forgotten the creepy JW's and crazy Muslims.
Why do mormons loose debates mm thats easy why do mormons still thrive mm $ If mormonism was on trial would it survive mmmm maybe if they paid off the judge but no they wouldn't with the (lack) of evidence they have i think they should be locked up for fraud for portraying a false reality. (Atheist für das Leben) I just love how your mormon paintings portray the Hebrews as Germanic how racist of you all.
And yet, with all these marvelous proofs & many evidences that the Mormons have compiled, no one outside the Mormon faith believes the Book of Mormon is true.
Let's get some perspective.... while sociologists believe that likely half the Mormon membership doesn't practice their religion anymore, let's still go with the official number of 14 million. Well, that's LESS than 1/4 of ONE percent of the world's population. For something that is supposed to be SOOO true, the Mormons are FAR behind.
Matthew 7:14 (King James Version) 14 "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
Get to know members..and see if they are good people..they would not have been as good i dont think if they havent read the Book of Mormon. I really like my mormon/ LDS friends! they are honest, hard working, respectful, have good values etc.
As a happily escaped former Mormon, I have know many Mormons, and most of them are pretty judgemental... they don't even realize it.
As far as gays are concerned, there's no "better think again" needed. Any organization that wants to take away civil rights from gays or any minority is bigoted. While not "hell", Mormons DO think that gays aren't going to the highest degree of heaven, if at all.
Besides that, the Mormon church is simply false... why waste time in it?
It is true that the recovered portion of the papyri scrolls (13%) is not the text of the Book of Abraham. So what? How does that prove that the text was not somewhere on the other 87% - ?
Good and honest scholarship demands that this information also be considered in any analysis of this issue. Why do the critics always conveniently leave this out?
The extant papyri is written in only black ink. Therefore, it is possible that Joseph translated from other portions of the papyri that are still missing.
Re the Book of Abraham it is important to know that multiple eye witnesses testified that Joseph Smith had a large amount of Papyri amounting to four or five rolls. Just one of these traversed the length of two rooms in the mansion home. The papyri that was recovered from the museum in NYC is only about 13% of the original material. 87% is still missing. Furthermore, eyewitness accounts testify that the papyri contained Egyptian characters written in both black and red ink.
It is also important to know that a statement by William Clayton was erroneously attributed to Joseph Smith. The statement has Joseph saying that he translated some of the information on the plates. However, Joseph didn't say that.
Amazing how the trusted right and man of j.smith becomes a unrepentant liar when statements when is suits the lds. While the rest of the time he is a paragon of accuracy and virtue
@Bidimus1 I assume you refer to William Clayton. It has been documented that wild rumors were circulating in Nauvoo about the Kinderhook plates and a number of people wrote things that proved to be inaccurate. Nobody knows whether Clayton's comments represent Joseph Smith's views or whether he was just repeating some of the circulating rumors. Since neither the critics nor the faithful know one way or the other, wouldn't it be more honest to say, as i do, that we just don't know?
@Bidimus1 Joseph said nothing about translating the plates in his journal, nor is there a mention of translation by Willard Richards who was assigned to take dictation for Joseph for the History of the Church, which was being compiled at the time.
@Bidimus1 Of the men who came from Kinderhook to deliver the plates to Nauvoo:Mr. Savage gave no known account of the meeting or alleged translation.J oshua Moore implied that the translation was not done at that time. (He only believed that the prophet could translate them.) .
@Bidimus1 Mr. Sharp (who was said to be a Mormon) had been given the plates to take to Nauvoo. However, according to Mr. Fugate (one of the people who perpetrated the hoax), Sharp “wanted to take the plates to Joe Smith”, but we refused to let them go.”
In addition, Sharp and Marsh gave no known account of the meeting or translation.
An article by Stanley B. Kimball published in the Ensign, August, 1981 details the evidence and testing which seems to indicate that the Kinderhook plates are a fraud. However, other research and scientific details about the methods and conclusions of the 1981 raise the possibility and evidence that the Kinderhook Plates may be authentic after all. These are detailed in an article by David Stewart Jr. "Kinderhook Plates, Fraudulent or Authentic.”
@Bidimus1 As Davis Stewart Jr. pointed out in his article, nobody knows that the ancients could not make brass like that found in the Kinderook Plates.
The LDS have published a lot of literature denouncing the men who admitted to fabricating, literally, the Kinderhook Plates. Only until NDT was used to prove they were not ancient at all, but made in the 1800's, bid LDS stop hailing them as proof of Joseph Smiths translating prowess. As if the Book of Abraham scam wasn't enough! Although LDS and BYU admit that the Book of Abraham wasn't a correct translation of the facsimiles, they still teach that it was. Why don't you make a video about that?
For example, Church buildings in the Baltic Nation of Latvia are built with radiant heated floors for greater energy efficiency during the harsh winter months, the tabernacle in Vernal, Utah was rebuilt into the Vernal Temple by reusing existing materials from the historic structure, and a meetinghouse in Susanville, California, is heated exclusively through geothermal energy produced from a well located on the property.
The big problem I have is with dna which prove American Indians and Polynesians are not of jewish decent. I watched a lot of excuses why this is so but not to my satisfaction. I believe in scienctific research.
@thebigcougar I am mormon and will not leave the church. The church has done me and my family a lot of good. I just can't get over the dna evidence. With everything else I am fine.
You really need to go back to the basics. Lehi descended from Manasseh not from Judah. It would be impossible to compare current Israeli DNA since Manasseh became one of the lost 10 tribes of Israel.
Interestingly, some Asian cultures believed they originated from Manasseh which you can view some of my videos.
If some Native Americans descended from Asia then they also descended from the 12 tribes of Israel.
Science will catch up to what the Book of Mormon already knows.
Arguing and trying to prove your point isn't going to change anybodies opinion. As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Ladder Day Saints, I know what I believe and I believe the Book of Mormon is true doctrine, and the prophets we have are called of god. Regardless of what anybody else thinks I know that to be true. If you have a problem with the Book of Mormon, I urge you to read it cover to cover.
The E-Z-SAVE method of salvation is simply a man-made marketing tool. Thanks again to the Catholic church for setting the just-believe-and-you'll-be-sav ed standard...now most Christian denominations employ that same "only belief is required" idea that appeals to the lazy masses. Same principle as the miracle diet pill. Did Christ simply believe, or did He tirelessly work and serve his fellow man? Full and complete salvation will take some effort..."saved by grace" is semantic snake oil.
This wasn't a very informative video. At the end it said that the scholars went to BYU etc and talked to ppl. And presented their findings. So what WERE their findings?
The lds "prophet" is spoken of in the New Testament.
NIV 2 Peter 2:1
1But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
NIV Matthew 7:15 15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. for the quorum of 12
If the LDS prophet is not the prophet in Israel, then who is the living prophet? You can't know one without knowing the other.
If you can not produce one, then you don't know and I'm not asking you to compare apples to oranges. The Bible is not the living prophet; I'm talking about alive, human being. The law of opposites suggests that God allows opposition in all things.
For every true prophet, shall he raise a false one, etc. We're warned against them; not discredit all of them.
The prophet which prophesieth of peace, when the word of the prophet shall come to pass, then shall the prophet be known, that the Lord hath truly sent him. Jeremiah 28:9
By their fruits, you shall know them... ie,
The Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, etc...
Remember that the Lord himself said we should become as a little child or in nowise will we receive the "Kingdom of Heaven"
Have you sought wisdom while being sufficiently humble?
When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.
Given the rate of faliure of lds prophets such as j.smith and b.young I have no fear of them.
Search these commandments, for they are true and faithful, and the prophecies and promises which are in them shall all be fulfilled.
What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same. D&C 1: 37-38
There is a difference between promised blessings and prophecy.
Sir, I am quite capable of reading the original book of commandments which IS on line and then comparing to the present (and original) d&c and comparing the them. There have been changes and the were not claimed to be NEW revelation in d&c
But true I was not the first or only one to see the changes..
"Some of the revelations as they are now in the Book of Doctrine and Covenants have been changed and added to. Some of the changes being of the greatest importance as the meaning is entirely changed on some very important matters; as if the Lord had changed his mind a few years after he gave the revelations"
David Whitmer
Address to All Believers in Christ
Chap VIII pg 56
The entire book is available on line at Google books
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16
No where does it say that scripture is perfect and infallable, yet most ignore even this verse written by Paul that helps explain this and they also do not take into account that errors or mistakes could be made. The average book has approximately 7 rough drafts on average.
Revelation came so fast that the press couldn't keep up.
The quotation 2nd Timothy does apply to the New Testament and The Old Testament.
The writings of j.smith no.
"Revelation came so fast that the press couldn't keep up" if so why the 3 year delay why not publish an addenda to the book of commandments say in Messenger and Advocate which they were publishing on a monthly basis!
The answer of course is that it took 3 years for j.smith to figure out what he wanted HIS church to believe and what would do HIM the most good as its leader.
For doctrine...for reproof... for correction and for instruction in righteousness.
this applies to all scripture.
What most folks have trouble with is not whether scripture can be reexamined or not... its the lack of actually living during the days of of Moses... or Isaiah... or even living in the New Testament.
The Bible was not written by God himself but by men who, with pen in hand, had to write the covenants of the Lord in the best way they could.
The Decalogue was written by GOD. The Old and New Testament were written by men INSPIRED by GOD and in the case of the New Testament men that were speaking to God in the person of Jesus.
The books of j.smith have no providence to show them anything but 19th century fiction.
The places they claim do not exist
The Peoples they speak of have not ever existed in the new world
The manner of which it is claimed to be received is in Direct contradiction of the New Testament Gal 1:8
Your suggestion stems on the belief that the Book of Mormon was written by Joseph Smith.
Not many would be THAT stupid to include verses of the Bible knowing that someone would call foul about it, right...unless it was translated. In translated records, every word would have to be recorded without reproach.
So either the people of Nephi had the commandments of the Lord, being themselves descendants of Ephraim and Manasseh... or Joseph was just really really lucky on everything.
Never said he was stupid.. a con man, and false prophet yes but not stupid.
Mohammad,Sun Myung Moon Emanuel Swedenborg (its really amazing how much of what he wrote j.smith et, al. copied.) all used the Bible does that make any of them true prophets ? No as none fit the Biblical requirements to be a prophet nor does j.smith..
J.smith was not lucky, he copied from others, and later people took his more vague statements and made them fit.. just like Nostradamus.
Sir we only have the word of j.smith (con man) his relatives by blood and marriage(some of them also con men) that there ever were any "golden plates". And the few that did "see" them in person only ever saw them while covered in some manner.
The 3 wittiness all changed there story and in the end only claimed to have seen the plates by "the eyes of faith"
All persons that claim to have seen the plates were in some way possible monetary beneficiaries of the deception.
"So either the people of Nephi had the commandments of the Lord"
Or they are fictional and given by there author a religion that conflates the old and new testaments with a false Elizabethan style of writing.
Since there is NO physical evidence of any of the things the bom claims to have been hallmarks of these people one must conclude logically that j.smith made them up or copied some one else's work that had done the same.
@Bidimus1 Really. How about the accuracy of the BoM on Arabian geography - particularly the accuracy of Nehum and Bountiful? What about the many BoM names that turned out to be actual names used at the time of Lehi which are attested in the Elephantine discoveries and others? What about Chiasmus and Hebrewisms that were not know in the time of Joseph Smith but turn out to be correct. There is so much more. If you don't know what I am talking about then you are not very well informed.
Will attempt to answer you rather scatter gun approach (no offense)
Please explin haw Nehum or bountiful can be accurately found in the old world way of the bom. Wich of the "candidate" sights do you support ?
Chiasmus occur in every day language, the fact that smith was attempting to copy the style of the KJV (and there froe the Old Testament) the inclusion of chiasmus. Othello 33 is also one does that make the bard prophetic ?
@Bidimus1 Beginning around 1999 a German (non-LDS) archaeological team, under the leadership of Burkhard Vogt, were excavating an ancient temple in southern Arabia when they discovered the inscription of a man belonging to the tribe of NHM. . In 2000 and 2001, the tribal name NHM was found on two more altars from the same excavation. The inscriptions date to about 600 BC – exactly the time of Lehi. This is a bulls-eye for the Book of Mormon.
@Bidimus1 Beginning around 1999 a German (non-LDS) archaeological team, under the leadership of Burkhard Vogt, were excavating an ancient temple in southern Arabia when they discovered the inscription of a man belonging to the tribe of NHM. . In 2000 and 2001, the tribal name NHM was found on two more altars from the same excavation. The inscriptions date to about 600 BC – exactly the time of Lehi – a bulls-eye for the Book of Mormon.
@Bidimus1 Scholars thought NHM was both a tribal name and a territory. A number of ancient maps show a location — in this same spot in Arabia — that went by the name of Nehem (other maps spell the location as Nihm, Nehem, and even Naham, but they all refer to the same geographical location in southern Arabia).
@Bidimus1 At this point Lehi’s party turns nearly due east. This is exactly the rout that the old incense trail follows but this was not known in Joseph Smith’s day. If you continue due east you end up on the coast at a place that still fits the description given in the Book of Mormon. This geograpy, this location, was not know by westerners in the days of Joseph Smith.
Gee.. you mean j.smith might have been able to look at a map of the Arabian peninsula and make a 1/2 way reasonable pretended journey ? Not impressed.
oh and by the way there were many good maps of that region... amazing how he seer and revelator could not tell any one where on a modern map where anything in is fictional tale really was. (actually he did but the lds is not real happy with trying to explain the lack of evidence in NY state)
@Bidimus1 The BoM describes great difficulties Lehi’s party encountered after turning east at Nehom. The description in the BoM turns out to be quite accurate. This is an area where danger from Bedouin raiders could require traveling without firebuilding – exactly what occurred with Lehi’s group.
@Bidimus1 Yet, this information was not known in Joseph Smith’s day. It is not true that there were many maps available. This eastern shore of the Red Sea and the intirior portion of Arabia were blank or marked as “unexplored territory” in maps of Joseph Smith’s day. In fact, only in recent decades, with the help of satellite images, have major geographic and geologic features been corrected.
@Bidimus1 The book of Mormon get’s many details right, that weren’t know in 1830. The incense trail rout, locations (not know in JS’s day) that match the description of the valley of Lemual in about the right place,the existence and location of Nahom, the harshness of the sourthen desert and the need to build no fires for fear of discovery by hostile tribes.
@Bidimus1 Also, the existence of Bountiful, a fertile location about due east of Nehom – also not on maps of JS’s day. Both the fertil wadis of Sayq and Khor Rori fit the description of being nearly due east of Nehem, as the Book of Mormon requires (1 Nephi 17:1).
@Bidimus1 Too many details for even educated scholars to get right in Joseph Smith’s day. The information was just not available – not discovered yet. And there’s so much more. I am enjoying this discussion. If I have time we can talk about all the other scholarly and archeological evidences that have come forth since the time of Jospeh Smith which support the authenticity and accuracy of the Book of Mormon.
@Bidimus1 There’s really quite a long list of these evidences now. With each passing year more and more criticism of the Book of Mormon are proven wrong and more and more evidence surfaces that support it.
@Bidimus1 Chiasmus does not typically occur in every day language - especially not in the complex forms found in ancient Semitic writing which includes the Bible. Scholars did not know of Chiasmus in the days of Joseph Smith. Even though it exists in the Bible, that fact was not known in Joseph Smith's day. Yet the Book of Mormon contains many intricate examples of this writing style.
@Bidimus1 I guess Joseph Smith had a time machine so as to gain access to modern scholarly research on Chiasmus so that he could go back to 1829 and put it in the Book of Mormon. Oh, and he would have been able to use the time machine to find out about Nahom and Bountiful as well.
@ddonrs A small list of things that smith states plainly that are in the new world but are not. Horses Elephants Chariots Wheat Iron Steel Ox Goat Swine Does a vague description of "some place near the water..... " in Arabia (maybe) really mean a lot when smiths makes so many proven falsehoods in his fictional history ? None of the cities described have been found (nor will they be)
@Bidimus1 It has been shown and documented that many of these things did exist and these are documented. The information is not that hard to find. I don't think you're looking very hard. It is difficult to respond on this blog site since the characters available are limited for each post. but, I think you can try a bit harder to find the information yourself.
@Bidimus1 First, much of the information and discoveries reproduced by groups like FARMS and FAIR originally comes from discoveries and research by non-Mormon archeologist and scholars. Even if evidence is discovered by an LDS scholar or archeologist - so what? That is not what matters. What matters is that it is real and verifiable evidence.
@Bidimus1 Why do the critics ignore real evidence when it does not suit them? I think this attitude reveals their true agenda which is not to discover truth but to oppose the truth. It does no service to critics, such as yourself, to insist on repeating old out dated arguments. By so doing they make themselves look bad and show that they are not up on the latest research or that they are not willing to be honest about the latest research.
@Bidimus1 I already cited a non-LDS team of archeologists lead by Burkhard Vogt but you ignore that. You take legitimate finds and belittle and ignore them because they support the authenticity of the Book of Mormon. pre-determined conclusion. If it were not so you would not belittle and ignore the evidence of the Vogt team of archeologists.
@Bidimus1 So, with the critics such as yourself, the conclusion is rigged from the beginning. It’s not about real evidence, it’s about being selective so you can support your pre-determined conclusion. If it were not so you would not belittle and ignore the evidence of the Vogt team of archeologists.
@Bidimus1 It is amazing how many of the critic's arguments have, and continue to fall by the way side as more discoveries are made and more research is done. You'd think that critics would get a clue, after a while, that they are on the wrong track. Sadly, that does not seem to be the case. I really don't enjoy it when someone is made to look bad so I am trying to help the critics out. Stop with the anti-Mormon agenda and do real scholarship!
This verse actually is teaching that water baptism is not necessary for salvation, it is a clear conscience before God, that is only attained through the blood of Jesus Christ. The blood takes away sin. Baptism shows symbolically "putting away the filth of the flesh" what must happen spiritually, our sin must be cleansed as spiritually we are baptized in the blood of Jesus Christ. This blood (spiritual) baptism is what saves us, not washing the body, but the soul.
Every member of the Church ought to know that it [the Book of Mormon] is true, and we ought to be prepared with an answer to all of those critics who condemn it. (The Book of Mormon, A Divine Record, Improvement Era, Dec. 1961, 925.)
The Book of Mormon itself, declares that there are problems and errors in it, which disqualifies it as being scripture from a God who cannot lie. Mormon 8:12 says there are errors in it. Alma 32:26 says you cannot know of the surety of his words at first. 1 Nephi 19:6 says if I do err. Alma 36:22 says "Yea methought I saw" Proverbs 30:5 in the Bible says "Every word of God is pure" The BOM does not talk at all about pre-earth life, the idea that God was once a man, it condemns polygamy etc.
Your comment demonstrates both ignorance of the Bible and of the Book of Mormon. Did you extract your comment from an Evangelical "study" on Mormons. I'm a LDS Bible student. I have 29 of the more than 60 well-known English versions and believe me there are errors. Are those from translators? From Authors or from God? Take your pick and tell me what it is?
I'm not sure how ignorance of the Bible and BOM was demonstrated, in my quoting them. I was LDS for over 2 decades, how many of those 29 translations have you read? Every good translation of the Bible teach the same major doctrines, and none of them teach a pre-earth life, God was once a man, man can become a god, temple marriage, baptism for the dead, polygamy, though God allowed it, He heavily discouraged and limited it, & never encouraged it, & forbade it of bishops and leaders of His church.
1 Corinthians 15:29 Else what shall they do ? IF they don't rise at all why then ARE they baptized for the DEAD?
The early Christians practiced baptisms for the dead and paganistic Rome ordered it stopped. Rome was uninspired and NEVER had ANY authority to act in God's name.
1 Corinthians 1:17 "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect." This as well as 1 Corinthians 15:29 were written by the apostle Paul. This single verse, is the only mention of baptism for the dead in the entire Bible, and the apostle Paul excludes himself from it, he further states that baptism has nothing to do with the gospel, in 1 Corinthians 1:18 he spells out what the gospel is all about.
Ordained members with priesthood performed the baptisms under Paul's direction. Baptism by immerssion for the remission of sin by one who is ordained by God, and not some silly college or it doesn't count.
And has not entered the straight gate to eternal life.
Paul would not exclude himself, from something he believed in. "Why are they" Even if he did not practice it, if it was a legitimate Christian practice, there would be much more than 1 verse in the entire Bible to talk about it, & Paul would have said "Why are we" not why are they. He was most likely talking about a Saduccee practice, because they do not believe in the ressurection, & this whole passage of scripture, is defending the fact that the dead will rise. Paul was preaching the gospel.
I hope you are not seriously suggesting that the truth of a subject is determined by the number of verses devoted to it in the Bible. If so, exactly how many verses are necessary before something is established as true?
carterfamily8903, if you seriously interpret Paul that way, then it can be said that he is not following Christ...because if he says "Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel" when Christ clearly commanded to "teach all nations, baptizing them..." Matt 28:19, then Paul is being a bad, bad, boy.
Not at all, Paul is pointing out that baptizm has nothing to do, with the gospel, which is simply the preaching of the cross. The message that God has provided atonement for our sins, and that we can be saved only by grace through faith, in Jesus Christ, who is THE WAY to heaven. Baptism after salvation, is a witness to the world of the salvation God has provided. As far as helping to save someone, it does no more good, than taking a bath does.
Funny...carterfamily8903, many who believe the Bible just as much as you seem to have claimed the opposite, that baptism IS necessary. This is the beauty and power of the restored gospel...3 Nephi 11:33-34 does not leave baptism open to debate. Kind of important to know. As for critics, it is no wonder they try to discredit the Book of Mormon, especially if their own interpretation of the Bible disagrees with it. In my mind, critics have always been losing the battle.
Acts 11:16 points to the only necessary baptism for being born again. Dipping someone in water, can never do anything to add to what Christ did on the cross. The blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. Getting baptized in water, may clean some dirt off of our body, but it does NOTHING to remove sin. Sin is what keeps people out of heaven, and absence of sin, is what gets people into heaven. There is only one thing that can remove sin & that is Jesus blood, by grace through faith.
Christ had no sins to be washed away. If water could wash away sins, His death would have been totally unnecessary. John the Baptist himself declared that water baptism was not the baptism that needed to happen in Matthew 3:11 "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance; but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire. It's a spiritual or heart baptism that is necessary, not a fleshly one.
The Apostle Peter, who I suggest was a reliable authority, would disagree with you. Note his words to those who in response to his preaching of Christ asked what they needed to do: "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins." Acts 2:38
The apostle Paul wrote 1 Corinthians 1:17,18 "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel; not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." Paul himself draws a clear distinction between baptism and the gospel. Baptism is fine, and proper after a person has been saved. But it does nothing to help save anyone.
Actually it looks like you are twisting Acts 19:2-6 to make it represent something else. Verse 5 says they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Not "the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost") Water may or may not have been used, in this baptism. And There is no mention at all about this baptism being "for the remission of Sin", once again, look at 1 Corinthians 1:17 also written by Paul.
Apostles are prophets too! Peter and Thomas S. Monson who once held and now hold the keys of the authority to do all things concerning his church and the canon is reopened and so are the windows of heaven.
All you mormons have are prophets of satan, when thousands of researchers proved throughout the decades that mormonism is full of lies,deceit and trickery, so go hail the mormon prophet of satan joseph smith
The Word of GOD is untainted, however, look at the history of the Bible, and who put it together, who translated from Hebrew to Greek to ENGLISH and how much was LOST in the PROCESS!
The Bible is correct as far as it was translated correctly. That's it!
With the introduction of the internet we have seen the addition of web pages, discussion forums, newsgroups, email lists and chat-rooms dedicated to attempts at destroying or defend The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
In 1823, seventeen-year-old Joseph Smith was told by the angel Moroni that: God had a work for me to do; and that my name should be had for good and evil among all nations, kindreds, and tongues, or that it should be both good and evil spoken of among all people. (Joseph Smith History 1:33.)
In the nearly two centuries since that revelation, we have seen the fulfillment of this prophecy. Since the day Joseph revealed that he had seen a vision he was criticized by some and supported by others. Books, articles, pamphlets, lectures, newsletters, and even movies have been made in an attempt to debunk the boy prophet and the religion he was instrumental in restoring.
Lookin at the last statement on the video. Most critics of the LDS church DO NOT want to paint the LDS as Ignorant or stupid. I sure hope MormonDefenders know this. They see their fellow brother falling wayside of biblical teachings and being endangered. We love mormons, we just oppose the doctrinal teachings of the church which go against what the bible teaches.
Mormonism needs defenders in light of disastrous DNA findings, Book of Abraham hoax, JS arrests for fraud & the continued lack of evidence supporting the BOM.
The video says, essentially, that 2 critics decided to lower the tone & talk. I think LDS beliefs are nutty but I don't think Mormons are evil. I'd bet that few actually believe JS chatted with Moses or had Egyptian gold plates that vanished. I can't understand why the LDS doesn't bury such nonsense as it did polygamy & racism.
The major mission of the Book of Mormon, as recorded on its title page, is "to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the eternal God, manifesting himself unto all nations."
- President Ezra Taft Benson, Prophet, seer and revelator-
Critics of the church can no longer call mormons ignorant and stupid. No matter! Church leaders and apologists have to accept the names of brainwashed and deceived.
Human nature will get people to take a stand on reality when something smells fishy.This is where the church leaders step in and tell the new kids waiting for missions not to let go of the brainwashing. Such as, read the bookofmormon, read, read, read until you hit that final rinse cycle and you will never forget the fairy tale.
"Ignorant and stupid" what an argument is that?
dorisfenella 6 months ago
There is a video by a ex- Mormon by the name of Bill Schnoebelen called Mormonisn:The Temple of Doom this video exposes Mormon as a cult to its very core.Let the evidence show,you can defend your fasith all you want to,like said history books do not lie.I am not against Mormons,God still loves them,it is the system that enslaves them,there are wonderful Mormons that are serving God to their best of their knowledge,the same thing goes for Catholics.Thank you
cinderalla72 8 months ago
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@cinderalla72 The EVANGELICAL god --> immaterial, unknown, an essence and forced upon others by the sword.
The LDS God --> Created us in His image. Our Heavenly Father, Resurrected Body, will NEVER force people to believe in Him.
LDS4Life71 4 months ago
@cinderalla72
I'm crying right now as i LMFAO. History books do not lie? You are a lemming... You will believe anything that agrees with your opinion and deny anything that does not lock step.
Sk8er408 2 weeks ago
@Sk8er408 ha!ha! it was so funny that i forgot to laugh.the thing i don't believe laman was the father of the american indians as perceived by your church.don't tell me bunch of lies when there is no scientific proof of him(laman) being the father.if he is then he must have 25 million wives to father all these so called children.thank you
cinderalla72 2 weeks ago
@cinderalla72
Fairy tale gurl. I'm not LDS... so try again.
You really do not know much do you? The people in the BoM (Lehi, Lamans dad) were not alone when they got here. If i remember right they were only one of at least 3 groups talked about.
Sk8er408 2 weeks ago
@Sk8er408 talk about ignornance.show me in the bible and the bible only where it says that only three came to this new world.my ancestors came to the americas via the bering strait,not through a fictional character by the name of lehi or laman.i am no ignorant injun,our oral history will prove other wise as well as scientific.
cinderalla72 2 weeks ago
@cinderalla72
LOL... show me where the bible says your ancestors come by the bering strait?
You are ignorant when you want only proof from the bible then claim something that is not supported by the bible... ignorance is the double standard you hold without even knowing it.
Sk8er408 2 weeks ago
@Sk8er408 ha!Ha! i want proof from the bible only where these three fictional characters(lehi and his two sons came from). your ignorance is double standard too,so don't talk to me your own ignorance,when you don't have proof of your own either.just beat it.
cinderalla72 2 weeks ago
@cinderalla72
LOL... I dont think you have the smarts when it comes to what the bible teaches. You are too focused on your own understanding to listen to anything that you do not want to believe. Y Our pride will make you deny G-d himself when you stand before him.
Sign seekers always reject teh signs they seek.
Sk8er408 2 weeks ago
@Sk8er408 The Bible never mentions the American Indians crossing the Bering Strait and it is silent about it. But the United States is in Bible prophecy. The Bible says: “An I beheld another beast coming out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.” Rev. 13:11 Read Foxe's Book of Martyrs
cinderalla72 1 week ago
@Sk8er408 The Bible says: “For the word of God is quick and powerful and sharper like than any two edged sword,piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” Hebrews 4:12
cinderalla72 1 week ago
@Sk8er408 Wanna know something about Lehi in the Bible: The Bible says: “Then the Philistines went up, and pitched in Judah, and spread themselves in Lehi.” Judges 15:9 According to Strong's Concordance #3896 of the Hebrew dictionary it says it is a place in Palestine, it does not mention a man
cinderalla72 1 week ago
@Sk8er408 The Bible says: “And when he came into Lehi, the Philistines shouted against him.” Judges 15:14 (first part) According to Strong's Concordance #3896 of the Hebrew dictionary it says it is a place in Palestine, it does not mention a man
cinderalla72 1 week ago
@Sk8er408 The Bible says: “Wherefore he called thereof Enhakkore,which is in Lehi unto this day.” Judges 15:19 (last part) According to Strong's Concordance #3896 of the Hebrew dictionary it says it is a place in Palestine, it does not mention a man
cinderalla72 1 week ago
@Sk8er408 The name Lemuel is found at Proverbs 31:1,4 it is an symbolic name for King Solomon The Bible says: The words of King Lemuel, the prophecy that his mother taught him.” Proverbs 31:1 It is not kings,O Lemuel it is not for kings to drink wine, nor princes strong drink.” Proverbs 31:4
cinderalla72 1 week ago
@Sk8er408 Thanks for waking me up,I'll debate you anything from the Bible, to see who is ignorant. You talk and walk around like a fool,parading yourself in front of the whole world. Never put a person down when he or she is down. The Bible says: “He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool:but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.” Proverbs 28:26
cinderalla72 1 week ago
You can defend your faith all you want to let the evidence show,and be proven again and again.Show video about Mormonisn all you want to,history does not lie.The Facts are the Facts and that it has been proven and it does not lie.The Mormon Church in Salt Lake City have masonic symbols and it has been proven by various people like Prof. Walter Veith and Tex Marre.Mormons are deceived because the truth hurts and they don't want to admit it.You cannot win against the Almighty God and His truth.
cinderalla72 8 months ago
Only in your minds. LOL!
gurumagoo 8 months ago
Losing which battle? The battle claiming that God is a created being against the Almighty infinite God who is the creator of all things seen and unseen? Or the battle against doctrines of men becoming Gods? We know what happened to the angel who sought the throne of Godhood.
awolLDSasap 10 months ago
Explain what this mean then..
Pearl of Great Price Moses 7:8
Pearl of Great Price Moses 7:22
Book of Mormon 2 Nephi 5:21
Jacob 3:5
Alma 3:6
daoyinyang 11 months ago
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@daoyinyang wake up! They mean exactly what they say. What are you implying?
LDS4Life71 10 months ago
Can you show me one pre-columbian horse, coin, metallic weapon, or any substantive evidence for the massive civilization that's claimed in the book of mormon? That preferable doesn't try to make mesoamerican culture into something it wasn't.
Primeda 1 year ago
The "battle" is not between mormon and un-mormon but between the Truth that heals and beliefs that don't. Mormon is the belief of secret mental necromacy/hypnotism enforced by untiring mental suggestive force that the untrained thought is ignorant of which renders it easy prey. The Science of the Christ with its love and Spirit disposes such practice, reinstates perfect individuality, elevates human consciousness up towards its extinction in the knowing of the one universal Mind GOD.
bmiller4930 1 year ago
Hypnotism is subtle. Jesus knew his unity with divine LOVE which is universal. He did not ritualize, mythicize or wear special underwear. He did not manipulate, dominate, or excommunicate the people from GOD. He declared the wicked, sinful nature of phoney, authoritarian religion; he did not merchandise hypocrisy but soundly denounced it. He did not market his beliefs in a slick pretty package but told it like it was healing human suffering everywhere he went. Is that Mormon? I think not?
bmiller4930 1 year ago
ustedes son una coleccion de gente estupida
HdeMILP 1 year ago
One has to understand how the Mormons accept the programming of their sect. To research Mormon history in its truth is to see what it is in truth, namely its associations with necromancy and utter lack of the healing Christ. This stuff has no backbone and is devoid of divinity.
bmiller4930 1 year ago
@bmiller4930
Necromancy? Yeah and Jesus Christ was a zombie. I guess I see where necromancy comes into play!
pfft. Anti-Mormons and their bat-shit crazy nonsense.
Most Anti-Mormons I know happen to be Atheists, Marxists, and Nihilists. The rest are just bat-shit Evangelicals who are sheople when worshiping their God. (very irreverent people) and don't think I've forgotten the creepy JW's and crazy Muslims.
LoneIndividual 1 year ago
thank you :)
jacecrawford 1 year ago
Why do mormons loose debates mm thats easy why do mormons still thrive mm $ If mormonism was on trial would it survive mmmm maybe if they paid off the judge but no they wouldn't with the (lack) of evidence they have i think they should be locked up for fraud for portraying a false reality. (Atheist für das Leben) I just love how your mormon paintings portray the Hebrews as Germanic how racist of you all.
wachnathan 1 year ago
And yet, with all these marvelous proofs & many evidences that the Mormons have compiled, no one outside the Mormon faith believes the Book of Mormon is true.
Let's get some perspective.... while sociologists believe that likely half the Mormon membership doesn't practice their religion anymore, let's still go with the official number of 14 million. Well, that's LESS than 1/4 of ONE percent of the world's population. For something that is supposed to be SOOO true, the Mormons are FAR behind.
ScienceReasonBelief 1 year ago
@ScienceReasonBelief
Matthew 7:14 (King James Version) 14 "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
Get to know members..and see if they are good people..they would not have been as good i dont think if they havent read the Book of Mormon. I really like my mormon/ LDS friends! they are honest, hard working, respectful, have good values etc.
Peace! (from sweden! :)
goosejocke 1 year ago
@goosejocke
Thanks, but I do not like the Mormons I have met. They tend to be shallow and judgmental. Thanks anyhow.
ScienceReasonBelief 1 year ago
@ScienceReasonBelief
I can see the shallow part...but judgmental? I've done some pretty stupid shit in my life, and my Mormon buddies just lol.
If you're talking about gays, then you better think again. At least they don't believe gays are going to Hell...like everyone else asserts.
LoneIndividual 1 year ago
@LoneIndividual
As a happily escaped former Mormon, I have know many Mormons, and most of them are pretty judgemental... they don't even realize it.
As far as gays are concerned, there's no "better think again" needed. Any organization that wants to take away civil rights from gays or any minority is bigoted. While not "hell", Mormons DO think that gays aren't going to the highest degree of heaven, if at all.
Besides that, the Mormon church is simply false... why waste time in it?
ScienceReasonBelief 1 year ago
It is true that the recovered portion of the papyri scrolls (13%) is not the text of the Book of Abraham. So what? How does that prove that the text was not somewhere on the other 87% - ?
ddonrs 1 year ago
Good and honest scholarship demands that this information also be considered in any analysis of this issue. Why do the critics always conveniently leave this out?
ddonrs 1 year ago
The extant papyri is written in only black ink. Therefore, it is possible that Joseph translated from other portions of the papyri that are still missing.
ddonrs 1 year ago
Re the Book of Abraham it is important to know that multiple eye witnesses testified that Joseph Smith had a large amount of Papyri amounting to four or five rolls. Just one of these traversed the length of two rooms in the mansion home. The papyri that was recovered from the museum in NYC is only about 13% of the original material. 87% is still missing. Furthermore, eyewitness accounts testify that the papyri contained Egyptian characters written in both black and red ink.
ddonrs 1 year ago
It is also important to know that a statement by William Clayton was erroneously attributed to Joseph Smith. The statement has Joseph saying that he translated some of the information on the plates. However, Joseph didn't say that.
ddonrs 1 year ago
@ddonrs
Amazing how the trusted right and man of j.smith becomes a unrepentant liar when statements when is suits the lds. While the rest of the time he is a paragon of accuracy and virtue
Bidimus1 1 year ago
@Bidimus1 I assume you refer to William Clayton. It has been documented that wild rumors were circulating in Nauvoo about the Kinderhook plates and a number of people wrote things that proved to be inaccurate. Nobody knows whether Clayton's comments represent Joseph Smith's views or whether he was just repeating some of the circulating rumors. Since neither the critics nor the faithful know one way or the other, wouldn't it be more honest to say, as i do, that we just don't know?
ddonrs 1 year ago
@Bidimus1 Joseph said nothing about translating the plates in his journal, nor is there a mention of translation by Willard Richards who was assigned to take dictation for Joseph for the History of the Church, which was being compiled at the time.
ddonrs 1 year ago
@Bidimus1 Of the men who came from Kinderhook to deliver the plates to Nauvoo:Mr. Savage gave no known account of the meeting or alleged translation.J oshua Moore implied that the translation was not done at that time. (He only believed that the prophet could translate them.) .
ddonrs 1 year ago
@Bidimus1 Mr. Sharp (who was said to be a Mormon) had been given the plates to take to Nauvoo. However, according to Mr. Fugate (one of the people who perpetrated the hoax), Sharp “wanted to take the plates to Joe Smith”, but we refused to let them go.”
In addition, Sharp and Marsh gave no known account of the meeting or translation.
ddonrs 1 year ago
Reply to afeinnachi20
An article by Stanley B. Kimball published in the Ensign, August, 1981 details the evidence and testing which seems to indicate that the Kinderhook plates are a fraud. However, other research and scientific details about the methods and conclusions of the 1981 raise the possibility and evidence that the Kinderhook Plates may be authentic after all. These are detailed in an article by David Stewart Jr. "Kinderhook Plates, Fraudulent or Authentic.”
ddonrs 1 year ago
@ddonrs
No, only in the fever swamp of wishful thinking does modern brass become ancient brass. Even BYU admitted that they were of 19th century make.
Bidimus1 1 year ago
@Bidimus1 As Davis Stewart Jr. pointed out in his article, nobody knows that the ancients could not make brass like that found in the Kinderook Plates.
ddonrs 1 year ago
Very insightful information thank you
AnFhirinne 1 year ago
The LDS have published a lot of literature denouncing the men who admitted to fabricating, literally, the Kinderhook Plates. Only until NDT was used to prove they were not ancient at all, but made in the 1800's, bid LDS stop hailing them as proof of Joseph Smiths translating prowess. As if the Book of Abraham scam wasn't enough! Although LDS and BYU admit that the Book of Abraham wasn't a correct translation of the facsimiles, they still teach that it was. Why don't you make a video about that?
afeinnaclh20 1 year ago
For example, Church buildings in the Baltic Nation of Latvia are built with radiant heated floors for greater energy efficiency during the harsh winter months, the tabernacle in Vernal, Utah was rebuilt into the Vernal Temple by reusing existing materials from the historic structure, and a meetinghouse in Susanville, California, is heated exclusively through geothermal energy produced from a well located on the property.
omiolo 1 year ago
I think this should say LOST the battle and do NOT know it.
omiolo 1 year ago
The big problem I have is with dna which prove American Indians and Polynesians are not of jewish decent. I watched a lot of excuses why this is so but not to my satisfaction. I believe in scienctific research.
thebigcougar 1 year ago
@thebigcougar I am mormon and will not leave the church. The church has done me and my family a lot of good. I just can't get over the dna evidence. With everything else I am fine.
thebigcougar 1 year ago
@thebigcougar
You really need to go back to the basics. Lehi descended from Manasseh not from Judah. It would be impossible to compare current Israeli DNA since Manasseh became one of the lost 10 tribes of Israel.
Interestingly, some Asian cultures believed they originated from Manasseh which you can view some of my videos.
If some Native Americans descended from Asia then they also descended from the 12 tribes of Israel.
Science will catch up to what the Book of Mormon already knows.
dougdcutler 1 year ago
@dougdcutler I would be interested in viewing some of your videos. Let me know where they are.
thebigcougar 1 year ago
@thebigcougar
"Israelites in Japan - Book of Mormon?" is the video.
dougdcutler 1 year ago
@dougdcutler Thanks. I have problems with the dna issue but will study with an open mind.
thebigcougar 1 year ago
@thebigcougar What "excuses" have you seen that you are dissatisfied with?
battlerosesx 1 year ago
Arguing and trying to prove your point isn't going to change anybodies opinion. As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Ladder Day Saints, I know what I believe and I believe the Book of Mormon is true doctrine, and the prophets we have are called of god. Regardless of what anybody else thinks I know that to be true. If you have a problem with the Book of Mormon, I urge you to read it cover to cover.
JKJ321 1 year ago
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The E-Z-SAVE method of salvation is simply a man-made marketing tool. Thanks again to the Catholic church for setting the just-believe-and-you'll-be-sav ed standard...now most Christian denominations employ that same "only belief is required" idea that appeals to the lazy masses. Same principle as the miracle diet pill. Did Christ simply believe, or did He tirelessly work and serve his fellow man? Full and complete salvation will take some effort..."saved by grace" is semantic snake oil.
LDSapologist71 2 years ago
This wasn't a very informative video. At the end it said that the scholars went to BYU etc and talked to ppl. And presented their findings. So what WERE their findings?
americhica 2 years ago
Mormons will never feel 'saved' because they always are sinning and have yet to become perfect in the actions and thoughts.
Alma 11:37
southernreign1 2 years ago
Other Christians tho feel they are saved are not, because they have yet to accept Jesus Christ and join his church.
TrueSaintsLDS 2 years ago
Chirstians know that j.smith will not be handing out hall passes to heaven.
Bidimus1 2 years ago
The Church of Jesus Christ, restored is the only true church on the face of the whole earth!
TrueSaintsLDS 2 years ago
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Bidimus1 2 years ago
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And we have the word of you and a self admitted money digger (fraud /con artist) to prove it.
No thanks will keep the New Testament.
Bidimus1 2 years ago
The lds "prophet" is spoken of in the New Testament.
NIV 2 Peter 2:1
1But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
NIV Matthew 7:15 15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. for the quorum of 12
2 Corinthians 11 :13
Bidimus1 2 years ago
@Bidimus1
If the LDS prophet is not the prophet in Israel, then who is the living prophet? You can't know one without knowing the other.
If you can not produce one, then you don't know and I'm not asking you to compare apples to oranges. The Bible is not the living prophet; I'm talking about alive, human being. The law of opposites suggests that God allows opposition in all things.
For every true prophet, shall he raise a false one, etc. We're warned against them; not discredit all of them.
THELDSLIFE 2 years ago
We are warned of false prophets, and we are told how to know if a prophet if false
j.smith fit the later far more than the former.
Bidimus1 2 years ago
@Bidimus1
The prophet which prophesieth of peace, when the word of the prophet shall come to pass, then shall the prophet be known, that the Lord hath truly sent him. Jeremiah 28:9
By their fruits, you shall know them... ie,
The Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, etc...
Remember that the Lord himself said we should become as a little child or in nowise will we receive the "Kingdom of Heaven"
Have you sought wisdom while being sufficiently humble?
THELDSLIFE 2 years ago
Deuteronomy 18:22
When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.
Given the rate of faliure of lds prophets such as j.smith and b.young I have no fear of them.
Bidimus1 2 years ago
Search these commandments, for they are true and faithful, and the prophecies and promises which are in them shall all be fulfilled.
What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same. D&C 1: 37-38
There is a difference between promised blessings and prophecy.
Blessings only given through faith.
THELDSLIFE 2 years ago
@THELDSLIFE
Boot strapping one book by j.smith to prove another does not impress very much.
Also read book of commandments and see where d&c changes things without even claiming revelation.
Bidimus1 2 years ago
You have probably only read about these books in pamphlets or other works written by contemporary authors with commentary.
Covenant Israel have always been in error and always will have flaws but the Lord loves them.
Your opinions are not your own.
They have been harbored for decades before either of us were born. Your assessment of the D&C or the Book of Commandments isn't perfect either.
The Lord's words will all come to pass in the manner in which seems fit to the great Jehovah.
THELDSLIFE 2 years ago
Sir, I am quite capable of reading the original book of commandments which IS on line and then comparing to the present (and original) d&c and comparing the them. There have been changes and the were not claimed to be NEW revelation in d&c
But true I was not the first or only one to see the changes..
Continued..
Bidimus1 2 years ago
"Some of the revelations as they are now in the Book of Doctrine and Covenants have been changed and added to. Some of the changes being of the greatest importance as the meaning is entirely changed on some very important matters; as if the Lord had changed his mind a few years after he gave the revelations"
David Whitmer
Address to All Believers in Christ
Chap VIII pg 56
The entire book is available on line at Google books
Bidimus1 2 years ago
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16
No where does it say that scripture is perfect and infallable, yet most ignore even this verse written by Paul that helps explain this and they also do not take into account that errors or mistakes could be made. The average book has approximately 7 rough drafts on average.
Revelation came so fast that the press couldn't keep up.
THELDSLIFE 2 years ago
The quotation 2nd Timothy does apply to the New Testament and The Old Testament.
The writings of j.smith no.
"Revelation came so fast that the press couldn't keep up" if so why the 3 year delay why not publish an addenda to the book of commandments say in Messenger and Advocate which they were publishing on a monthly basis!
The answer of course is that it took 3 years for j.smith to figure out what he wanted HIS church to believe and what would do HIM the most good as its leader.
Bidimus1 2 years ago
For doctrine...for reproof... for correction and for instruction in righteousness.
this applies to all scripture.
What most folks have trouble with is not whether scripture can be reexamined or not... its the lack of actually living during the days of of Moses... or Isaiah... or even living in the New Testament.
The Bible was not written by God himself but by men who, with pen in hand, had to write the covenants of the Lord in the best way they could.
Fault finding never meets with truth.
THELDSLIFE 2 years ago
The Decalogue was written by GOD. The Old and New Testament were written by men INSPIRED by GOD and in the case of the New Testament men that were speaking to God in the person of Jesus.
The books of j.smith have no providence to show them anything but 19th century fiction.
The places they claim do not exist
The Peoples they speak of have not ever existed in the new world
The manner of which it is claimed to be received is in Direct contradiction of the New Testament Gal 1:8
Bidimus1 2 years ago
"Fault finding never meets with truth" handy...
So when we find that most of what is new in bom and not copied form the KJV is utterly with out merit we should just ignore that little fact ? No Sir.
Bidimus1 2 years ago
@Bidimus1
Your suggestion stems on the belief that the Book of Mormon was written by Joseph Smith.
Not many would be THAT stupid to include verses of the Bible knowing that someone would call foul about it, right...unless it was translated. In translated records, every word would have to be recorded without reproach.
So either the people of Nephi had the commandments of the Lord, being themselves descendants of Ephraim and Manasseh... or Joseph was just really really lucky on everything.
THELDSLIFE 2 years ago
Never said he was stupid.. a con man, and false prophet yes but not stupid.
Mohammad,Sun Myung Moon Emanuel Swedenborg (its really amazing how much of what he wrote j.smith et, al. copied.) all used the Bible does that make any of them true prophets ? No as none fit the Biblical requirements to be a prophet nor does j.smith..
J.smith was not lucky, he copied from others, and later people took his more vague statements and made them fit.. just like Nostradamus.
Bidimus1 2 years ago
Sir we only have the word of j.smith (con man) his relatives by blood and marriage(some of them also con men) that there ever were any "golden plates". And the few that did "see" them in person only ever saw them while covered in some manner.
The 3 wittiness all changed there story and in the end only claimed to have seen the plates by "the eyes of faith"
All persons that claim to have seen the plates were in some way possible monetary beneficiaries of the deception.
Bidimus1 2 years ago
* the exeption would be Martin Harris
Bidimus1 2 years ago
"So either the people of Nephi had the commandments of the Lord"
Or they are fictional and given by there author a religion that conflates the old and new testaments with a false Elizabethan style of writing.
Since there is NO physical evidence of any of the things the bom claims to have been hallmarks of these people one must conclude logically that j.smith made them up or copied some one else's work that had done the same.
Bidimus1 2 years ago
@Bidimus1 Really. How about the accuracy of the BoM on Arabian geography - particularly the accuracy of Nehum and Bountiful? What about the many BoM names that turned out to be actual names used at the time of Lehi which are attested in the Elephantine discoveries and others? What about Chiasmus and Hebrewisms that were not know in the time of Joseph Smith but turn out to be correct. There is so much more. If you don't know what I am talking about then you are not very well informed.
ddonrs 1 year ago
@ddonrs
Will attempt to answer you rather scatter gun approach (no offense)
Please explin haw Nehum or bountiful can be accurately found in the old world way of the bom. Wich of the "candidate" sights do you support ?
Chiasmus occur in every day language, the fact that smith was attempting to copy the style of the KJV (and there froe the Old Testament) the inclusion of chiasmus. Othello 33 is also one does that make the bard prophetic ?
Bidimus1 1 year ago
@Bidimus1 Beginning around 1999 a German (non-LDS) archaeological team, under the leadership of Burkhard Vogt, were excavating an ancient temple in southern Arabia when they discovered the inscription of a man belonging to the tribe of NHM. . In 2000 and 2001, the tribal name NHM was found on two more altars from the same excavation. The inscriptions date to about 600 BC – exactly the time of Lehi. This is a bulls-eye for the Book of Mormon.
ddonrs 1 year ago
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@Bidimus1 Beginning around 1999 a German (non-LDS) archaeological team, under the leadership of Burkhard Vogt, were excavating an ancient temple in southern Arabia when they discovered the inscription of a man belonging to the tribe of NHM. . In 2000 and 2001, the tribal name NHM was found on two more altars from the same excavation. The inscriptions date to about 600 BC – exactly the time of Lehi – a bulls-eye for the Book of Mormon.
ddonrs 1 year ago
@Bidimus1 Scholars thought NHM was both a tribal name and a territory. A number of ancient maps show a location — in this same spot in Arabia — that went by the name of Nehem (other maps spell the location as Nihm, Nehem, and even Naham, but they all refer to the same geographical location in southern Arabia).
ddonrs 1 year ago
@Bidimus1 At this point Lehi’s party turns nearly due east. This is exactly the rout that the old incense trail follows but this was not known in Joseph Smith’s day. If you continue due east you end up on the coast at a place that still fits the description given in the Book of Mormon. This geograpy, this location, was not know by westerners in the days of Joseph Smith.
ddonrs 1 year ago
@ddonrs
Gee.. you mean j.smith might have been able to look at a map of the Arabian peninsula and make a 1/2 way reasonable pretended journey ? Not impressed.
oh and by the way there were many good maps of that region... amazing how he seer and revelator could not tell any one where on a modern map where anything in is fictional tale really was. (actually he did but the lds is not real happy with trying to explain the lack of evidence in NY state)
Bidimus1 1 year ago
@Bidimus1 Many good maps? Afraid not. Not at the time of Joseph Smith.
ddonrs 1 year ago
@Bidimus1 The BoM describes great difficulties Lehi’s party encountered after turning east at Nehom. The description in the BoM turns out to be quite accurate. This is an area where danger from Bedouin raiders could require traveling without firebuilding – exactly what occurred with Lehi’s group.
ddonrs 1 year ago
@Bidimus1 Yet, this information was not known in Joseph Smith’s day. It is not true that there were many maps available. This eastern shore of the Red Sea and the intirior portion of Arabia were blank or marked as “unexplored territory” in maps of Joseph Smith’s day. In fact, only in recent decades, with the help of satellite images, have major geographic and geologic features been corrected.
ddonrs 1 year ago
@Bidimus1 The book of Mormon get’s many details right, that weren’t know in 1830. The incense trail rout, locations (not know in JS’s day) that match the description of the valley of Lemual in about the right place,the existence and location of Nahom, the harshness of the sourthen desert and the need to build no fires for fear of discovery by hostile tribes.
ddonrs 1 year ago
@Bidimus1 Also, the existence of Bountiful, a fertile location about due east of Nehom – also not on maps of JS’s day. Both the fertil wadis of Sayq and Khor Rori fit the description of being nearly due east of Nehem, as the Book of Mormon requires (1 Nephi 17:1).
ddonrs 1 year ago
@Bidimus1 Too many details for even educated scholars to get right in Joseph Smith’s day. The information was just not available – not discovered yet. And there’s so much more. I am enjoying this discussion. If I have time we can talk about all the other scholarly and archeological evidences that have come forth since the time of Jospeh Smith which support the authenticity and accuracy of the Book of Mormon.
ddonrs 1 year ago
@Bidimus1 There’s really quite a long list of these evidences now. With each passing year more and more criticism of the Book of Mormon are proven wrong and more and more evidence surfaces that support it.
ddonrs 1 year ago
@Bidimus1 Chiasmus does not typically occur in every day language - especially not in the complex forms found in ancient Semitic writing which includes the Bible. Scholars did not know of Chiasmus in the days of Joseph Smith. Even though it exists in the Bible, that fact was not known in Joseph Smith's day. Yet the Book of Mormon contains many intricate examples of this writing style.
ddonrs 1 year ago
@Bidimus1 I guess Joseph Smith had a time machine so as to gain access to modern scholarly research on Chiasmus so that he could go back to 1829 and put it in the Book of Mormon. Oh, and he would have been able to use the time machine to find out about Nahom and Bountiful as well.
ddonrs 1 year ago
Bidimus1 1 year ago
@Bidimus1 It has been shown and documented that many of these things did exist and these are documented. The information is not that hard to find. I don't think you're looking very hard. It is difficult to respond on this blog site since the characters available are limited for each post. but, I think you can try a bit harder to find the information yourself.
ddonrs 1 year ago
@ddonrs
Please cite where other than "faith promoting" farms articles and maxwell apologists that these things have been found.
Bidimus1 1 year ago
@Bidimus1 First, much of the information and discoveries reproduced by groups like FARMS and FAIR originally comes from discoveries and research by non-Mormon archeologist and scholars. Even if evidence is discovered by an LDS scholar or archeologist - so what? That is not what matters. What matters is that it is real and verifiable evidence.
ddonrs 1 year ago
@Bidimus1 Why do the critics ignore real evidence when it does not suit them? I think this attitude reveals their true agenda which is not to discover truth but to oppose the truth. It does no service to critics, such as yourself, to insist on repeating old out dated arguments. By so doing they make themselves look bad and show that they are not up on the latest research or that they are not willing to be honest about the latest research.
ddonrs 1 year ago
@Bidimus1 I already cited a non-LDS team of archeologists lead by Burkhard Vogt but you ignore that. You take legitimate finds and belittle and ignore them because they support the authenticity of the Book of Mormon. pre-determined conclusion. If it were not so you would not belittle and ignore the evidence of the Vogt team of archeologists.
ddonrs 1 year ago
@Bidimus1 So, with the critics such as yourself, the conclusion is rigged from the beginning. It’s not about real evidence, it’s about being selective so you can support your pre-determined conclusion. If it were not so you would not belittle and ignore the evidence of the Vogt team of archeologists.
ddonrs 1 year ago
@Bidimus1 It is amazing how many of the critic's arguments have, and continue to fall by the way side as more discoveries are made and more research is done. You'd think that critics would get a clue, after a while, that they are on the wrong track. Sadly, that does not seem to be the case. I really don't enjoy it when someone is made to look bad so I am trying to help the critics out. Stop with the anti-Mormon agenda and do real scholarship!
ddonrs 1 year ago
@ddonrs
More things smith claimed that are proven false
his "Egyptian alphabet and grammar" would be a forgotten error but for a few copies not lost...
his reading to the kinderhook plates is a classic of con-man being conned
No sir, I am quite well informed.
Bidimus1 1 year ago
The book of Mormon brings pace and the Holy Spirit.
I love it!
wilfordwoodruff 2 years ago
All men need repentance and lds Baptism.
wilfordwoodruff 2 years ago
Exept for lds that is a true and biblical statement.
Bidimus1 2 years ago
Also read 1 Peter 3:21
TrueSaintsLDS 2 years ago
This verse actually is teaching that water baptism is not necessary for salvation, it is a clear conscience before God, that is only attained through the blood of Jesus Christ. The blood takes away sin. Baptism shows symbolically "putting away the filth of the flesh" what must happen spiritually, our sin must be cleansed as spiritually we are baptized in the blood of Jesus Christ. This blood (spiritual) baptism is what saves us, not washing the body, but the soul.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
Baptism also doth save us!
TrueSaintsLDS 2 years ago
There is NO truth in Creeds of Nicea!
FAIRLDSdotORG
for the true gospel of JESUS CHRIST
TrueSaintsLDS 2 years ago
Interesting, thank you for this.
BookofMormonReader 2 years ago
Every member of the Church ought to know that it [the Book of Mormon] is true, and we ought to be prepared with an answer to all of those critics who condemn it. (The Book of Mormon, A Divine Record, Improvement Era, Dec. 1961, 925.)
-Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith
TrueSaintsLDS 2 years ago
The Book of Mormon itself, declares that there are problems and errors in it, which disqualifies it as being scripture from a God who cannot lie. Mormon 8:12 says there are errors in it. Alma 32:26 says you cannot know of the surety of his words at first. 1 Nephi 19:6 says if I do err. Alma 36:22 says "Yea methought I saw" Proverbs 30:5 in the Bible says "Every word of God is pure" The BOM does not talk at all about pre-earth life, the idea that God was once a man, it condemns polygamy etc.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
Your comment demonstrates both ignorance of the Bible and of the Book of Mormon. Did you extract your comment from an Evangelical "study" on Mormons. I'm a LDS Bible student. I have 29 of the more than 60 well-known English versions and believe me there are errors. Are those from translators? From Authors or from God? Take your pick and tell me what it is?
alexgomez2 2 years ago
I'm not sure how ignorance of the Bible and BOM was demonstrated, in my quoting them. I was LDS for over 2 decades, how many of those 29 translations have you read? Every good translation of the Bible teach the same major doctrines, and none of them teach a pre-earth life, God was once a man, man can become a god, temple marriage, baptism for the dead, polygamy, though God allowed it, He heavily discouraged and limited it, & never encouraged it, & forbade it of bishops and leaders of His church.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
1 Corinthians 15:29 Else what shall they do ? IF they don't rise at all why then ARE they baptized for the DEAD?
The early Christians practiced baptisms for the dead and paganistic Rome ordered it stopped. Rome was uninspired and NEVER had ANY authority to act in God's name.
And you will have to be rebaptized.
TrueSaintsLDS 2 years ago
1 Corinthians 1:17 "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect." This as well as 1 Corinthians 15:29 were written by the apostle Paul. This single verse, is the only mention of baptism for the dead in the entire Bible, and the apostle Paul excludes himself from it, he further states that baptism has nothing to do with the gospel, in 1 Corinthians 1:18 he spells out what the gospel is all about.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
Comment removed
TrueSaintsLDS 2 years ago
Ordained members with priesthood performed the baptisms under Paul's direction. Baptism by immerssion for the remission of sin by one who is ordained by God, and not some silly college or it doesn't count.
And has not entered the straight gate to eternal life.
TrueSaintsLDS 2 years ago
The early church had baptismal fonts and identical to our baptismal fonts today.
TrueSaintsLDS 2 years ago
I was amazed at how much the early baptismal fonts for the dead and ours in our temple are the SAME!
TrueSaintsLDS 2 years ago
Paul would not exclude himself, from something he believed in. "Why are they" Even if he did not practice it, if it was a legitimate Christian practice, there would be much more than 1 verse in the entire Bible to talk about it, & Paul would have said "Why are we" not why are they. He was most likely talking about a Saduccee practice, because they do not believe in the ressurection, & this whole passage of scripture, is defending the fact that the dead will rise. Paul was preaching the gospel.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
I hope you are not seriously suggesting that the truth of a subject is determined by the number of verses devoted to it in the Bible. If so, exactly how many verses are necessary before something is established as true?
archaeologyprof 2 years ago
carterfamily8903, if you seriously interpret Paul that way, then it can be said that he is not following Christ...because if he says "Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel" when Christ clearly commanded to "teach all nations, baptizing them..." Matt 28:19, then Paul is being a bad, bad, boy.
allzago 2 years ago
Not at all, Paul is pointing out that baptizm has nothing to do, with the gospel, which is simply the preaching of the cross. The message that God has provided atonement for our sins, and that we can be saved only by grace through faith, in Jesus Christ, who is THE WAY to heaven. Baptism after salvation, is a witness to the world of the salvation God has provided. As far as helping to save someone, it does no more good, than taking a bath does.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
Funny...carterfamily8903, many who believe the Bible just as much as you seem to have claimed the opposite, that baptism IS necessary. This is the beauty and power of the restored gospel...3 Nephi 11:33-34 does not leave baptism open to debate. Kind of important to know. As for critics, it is no wonder they try to discredit the Book of Mormon, especially if their own interpretation of the Bible disagrees with it. In my mind, critics have always been losing the battle.
allzago 2 years ago
Acts 19:2-6 Paul was BAPTIZING in the name of JESUS CHRIST
Baptism is a commandment in order to be BORN AGAIN
TrueSaintsLDS 2 years ago
Acts 11:16 points to the only necessary baptism for being born again. Dipping someone in water, can never do anything to add to what Christ did on the cross. The blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. Getting baptized in water, may clean some dirt off of our body, but it does NOTHING to remove sin. Sin is what keeps people out of heaven, and absence of sin, is what gets people into heaven. There is only one thing that can remove sin & that is Jesus blood, by grace through faith.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
Accepting Jesus Christ requires standing in the water and baptized like Christ was for the REMISSION of SIN.
TrueSaintsLDS 2 years ago
Christ had no sins to be washed away. If water could wash away sins, His death would have been totally unnecessary. John the Baptist himself declared that water baptism was not the baptism that needed to happen in Matthew 3:11 "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance; but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire. It's a spiritual or heart baptism that is necessary, not a fleshly one.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
The Apostle Peter, who I suggest was a reliable authority, would disagree with you. Note his words to those who in response to his preaching of Christ asked what they needed to do: "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins." Acts 2:38
archaeologyprof 2 years ago
The apostle Paul wrote 1 Corinthians 1:17,18 "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel; not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." Paul himself draws a clear distinction between baptism and the gospel. Baptism is fine, and proper after a person has been saved. But it does nothing to help save anyone.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
It is hillarious how you take the scripture and like a lawyer twist to make it represent something else.
Acts 19:2-6 Paul is baptizing for the remission of SIN in the name of the FATHER and of the Son and of the HOLY Ghost!
TrueSaintsLDS 2 years ago
Actually it looks like you are twisting Acts 19:2-6 to make it represent something else. Verse 5 says they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Not "the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost") Water may or may not have been used, in this baptism. And There is no mention at all about this baptism being "for the remission of Sin", once again, look at 1 Corinthians 1:17 also written by Paul.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
Totally agree with you.
Mormons "add" to the cross. Jesus is not enough for them.
cezza57 2 years ago
in the lds hymnal there is a song that sums up their faith.. "follow the prophet"
Bidimus1 2 years ago
Apostles are prophets too! Peter and Thomas S. Monson who once held and now hold the keys of the authority to do all things concerning his church and the canon is reopened and so are the windows of heaven.
archaeologyprof is right, bub!
TrueSaintsLDS 2 years ago
right.. and we all need to get a hall pass from j.smith for heaven too...
To quote from wayne.
Not hardly.
Bidimus1 2 years ago
Yep. and to follow the prophet means to obey the commandments of God and have faith in Jesus Christ, the saviour and Son of God. You are right.
tecnolover2642 2 years ago
All you mormons have are prophets of satan, when thousands of researchers proved throughout the decades that mormonism is full of lies,deceit and trickery, so go hail the mormon prophet of satan joseph smith
chainsticks88 2 years ago
@chainsticks88
no, need to get so emotional i would love to have a friendly debate with you. on the Bible only and common objections to mormonism if you so will.
peace may GOD be with you.
mormonapologetic 2 years ago
The Word of GOD is untainted, however, look at the history of the Bible, and who put it together, who translated from Hebrew to Greek to ENGLISH and how much was LOST in the PROCESS!
The Bible is correct as far as it was translated correctly. That's it!
TrueSaintsLDS 2 years ago
The Book of MORMON is the WORD of GOD too!
TrueSaintsLDS 2 years ago
With the introduction of the internet we have seen the addition of web pages, discussion forums, newsgroups, email lists and chat-rooms dedicated to attempts at destroying or defend The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
TrueSaintsLDS 2 years ago
In 1823, seventeen-year-old Joseph Smith was told by the angel Moroni that: God had a work for me to do; and that my name should be had for good and evil among all nations, kindreds, and tongues, or that it should be both good and evil spoken of among all people. (Joseph Smith History 1:33.)
TrueSaintsLDS 2 years ago
In the nearly two centuries since that revelation, we have seen the fulfillment of this prophecy. Since the day Joseph revealed that he had seen a vision he was criticized by some and supported by others. Books, articles, pamphlets, lectures, newsletters, and even movies have been made in an attempt to debunk the boy prophet and the religion he was instrumental in restoring.
TrueSaintsLDS 2 years ago
Lookin at the last statement on the video. Most critics of the LDS church DO NOT want to paint the LDS as Ignorant or stupid. I sure hope MormonDefenders know this. They see their fellow brother falling wayside of biblical teachings and being endangered. We love mormons, we just oppose the doctrinal teachings of the church which go against what the bible teaches.
zmcleod 2 years ago
..funny how if you recognise teachings of Mormonism that disagree with the bible..you are crowned "ANTI-MORMON"
:|
cezza57 2 years ago
Mormonism needs defenders in light of disastrous DNA findings, Book of Abraham hoax, JS arrests for fraud & the continued lack of evidence supporting the BOM.
The video says, essentially, that 2 critics decided to lower the tone & talk. I think LDS beliefs are nutty but I don't think Mormons are evil. I'd bet that few actually believe JS chatted with Moses or had Egyptian gold plates that vanished. I can't understand why the LDS doesn't bury such nonsense as it did polygamy & racism.
smb12321 2 years ago
awesome video
LDSTrueChurch 2 years ago
The major mission of the Book of Mormon, as recorded on its title page, is "to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the eternal God, manifesting himself unto all nations."
- President Ezra Taft Benson, Prophet, seer and revelator-
fairlds . org
LDSTrueChurch 2 years ago
Critics of the church can no longer call mormons ignorant and stupid. No matter! Church leaders and apologists have to accept the names of brainwashed and deceived.
Human nature will get people to take a stand on reality when something smells fishy.This is where the church leaders step in and tell the new kids waiting for missions not to let go of the brainwashing. Such as, read the bookofmormon, read, read, read until you hit that final rinse cycle and you will never forget the fairy tale.
awolLDSasap 2 years ago
Brief video discussing Mormon critics and a seminar to encourage critics to re-focus their efforts against Mormonism.
omiolo 2 years ago