Poles fighting for the Ukraine (17th century) Part 2

[PanLeshek]

Ukrainian chlopczyku might kick your royal ass, brother! We might need few regiments of ulan to support our claims! hahahahahaha

[PanLeshek]

Jarema Wisniowiecki ,the best commander in Crown army! Agree!

[ditzhastati]

I think that normalukrainian write us a song :)

[mikolajoskierko]

Well, i love Ukrainian songs, i thought that he`s swearing haha

[mikolajoskierko]

Ej, man. Why you write in cyrylice? You know that i will not be able to answer, neither read. Is it some escape from normal discussion?

[nyk31]

xaxaxa

[ditzhastati]

Yes and they fall into Russian hands.

[UbuRoi7]

^you are wrong. the Poles lose this battle in the movie.

[skiproducts]

what film is this horribly inaccurate clip taken from. i am certain it is polish made, due to the fact that the poles are shown to be victorious... and the poles were pushed back by Khmelnytski and his Cossacks. It is thanks to the Cossacks the Ukraine still exists as its own country.

[Baltvilks]

Learn your history first chlopczyku,

After that will write here

[normalukrainian]

Polish agressors and occupants was successfully pushed away from Ukraine by B Khmelnytskyi and desperate Ukrainian people.

[mikolajoskierko]

Totally wrong, Khmelnytsky wanted no war with Poland but nobles who were free people and minded about own bussyness, he wanted Ukraine to be rightfull part of Polish-Lithuanian commowealth and Cossacs to be free nobles the same as Poles, Lithuanians and some Ukrainians also (f.e. Jarema Wiśniowiecki). He wanted to be HETMAN of Ukraine as a part of commonwealth.

[mikolajoskierko]

Then was peace, but noone respected that and fights were still. Khmelnytsky asked Russians for help and that`s why part of Ukraine became part of Moscow which was the same unfair for those Ukrainian people as polish/ukrainian nobles feudalism. Cossacs became forces pushed around Moscow boarders to fight with everyone... Russians just WERE USING COSSACS LIKE MEAT.

[mikolajoskierko]

Btw. those who conquared Ukraine were Lithuanians, but everywhere were ruling local nobles (the same Ukrainians in Ukraine) who were hiering Polish knights to fight. Talking about that polish "state" or Poles as a people were supressing Ukrainians is just the same truth like that feudalism was supressing EVERY peasants (polish too).

[normalukrainian]

No matter polish, or moscovian magnats-they are all same. Bloody bastards. Too bad, Bohdan, didn't extend Ukrainian ground up to the Visla. And didn't make Ukraine independent. We would be the Greates country in Europe by now.

[mikolajoskierko]

Unfortunatelly Bohdan Zenobi was RESPUBLICA magnat bloody bastard as well... jews know something about it, we too. Unfortunatelly Ukrainian land wasn`t to Vistula, today boarders seems to be quite like 1000years before. Did Pan Bohdan really wanted independence? I heared something else.

And after all, tribe POLANIE camed from Niprus where is Kiev and conquared this what`s Poland. Besise not Poles conquared your land and you were supressed by Ukrainans like Wiśniowicki the same.

Peace

[mikolajoskierko]

P.S. for me is good like it is even if Lviv was builded by Poles like almost everything on Podolia, but we don`t claim to this lands no more. I understand that you could have hard feelings about us, but simple Pole was the same victim of feudalism like those FREE cossacs. Uprise was for free Cossacs rights the same as nobles, becouse in RESPUBLICA many people were free, not like in Moscow everybody Tzar slave.

[normalukrainian]

Fricking lie. Lviv was built and found by Ruthenian kniaz Danylo Halyckyi (Данило Галицький). By the way he founded cities like Helm and Jaroslaw (Холм і Ярослав) -typical Ukrinian cities. And you still owe us Pidliashshia.

[mikolajoskierko]

Yes, right, but look at map which slavic tribe lived there... POLANIE under command of half-legendar Lęch (that`s why you name us Liachs or becouse tribe Lędzianie whcich could be related to Polanie the same) crossed Bug river and conquared other tribes. Becouse of that our county name`s Polska. Rutherians, Belarusiasn and Poles are Slavs the same.

We don`t own you nothing, don`t you see that lands were populated by the same Slavs and was hard to even tell which is Pole or Rutherian?

[mikolajoskierko]

Ask yourselve why Khmelnytsky could be orthodox and noble at the same time?Hetmans were called also leaders of cossac regiments PAYED BY NOBLES. Cossacs were Respublica soldiers.

[mikolajoskierko]

Don`t be so emotional, for me it`s only fascinating history and the same Poles as Ukrainians are brothers Slavs. Btw. Hetman was Respublica army leader, there were more than one Siches. Cossacs will not uprise if they only could have noble rights like many, many, many people in Respublica, becouse Cossac was the same rightfull as any noble at that time.

[normalukrainian]

Тарас ШЕВЧЕНКО Полякам

Ще як були ми козаками,

А унії не чуть було,

Отам-то весело жилось!

Братались з вольними ляхами,

Пишались вольними степами,

В садах кохалися, цвіли,

Неначе лілії, дівчата.

Пишалася синами мати,

Синами вольними...

[normalukrainian]

Росли,

Росли сини і веселили

Старії скорбнії літа...

Аж поки іменем Христа

Прийшли ксьондзи і запалили

Наш тихий рай. І розлили

Широке море сльоз і крові,

А сирот іменем Христовим

Замордували, розп'яли.

[normalukrainian]

Поникли голови козачі,

Неначе стоптана трава.

Украйна плаче, стогне-плаче!

За головою голова

Додолу пада. Кат лютує,

А ксьондз скаженим язиком

Кричить: "Te deum! алілуя!.."

[normalukrainian]

Отак-то, ляше, друже, брате!

Неситії ксьондзи, магнати

Нас порізнили, розвели,

А ми б і досі так жили.

Подай же руку козакові

І серце чистеє подай!

І знову іменем Христовим

Ми оновим наш тихий рай.

[sparrowcrazy]

We hear you...but we do not understand you;p Care to translate?

[normalukrainian]

Cossacks=Ukrainians.

Pans=Poles=liachs together with jews were drinking blood from Ukrainian people. They were disrespecting our true religion, they forced free people to slavery. This is why war happend. You cannot rule free people of cossack blood. Хмельницький was just a hetman at the time. The Ukrainian land had to be cleared. No matter who were ruling Sich at the time. People would do it anyway.

[mikolajoskierko]

Cosscs=Rutherians+Poles etc. who wanted to escape from feudal slavery. Cossacs were payed by nobles to protect border, when Ottomn crusade was cancelled and Cossacs could be enslaved to work in UKRAINIAN nobles soil rebel started.

We are not some Mongols who drink blood or burying churches... be serious. There were no religious intolerance, read about Warsaw Confederation, in every Pacta Conventa King needed to swear that will PROTECT religious tolerance in Respublica.

[mikolajoskierko]

Btw. Pan means the same as Mister or Sir and Poles means the same peasants which were the same enslaved by Pans no matter which hmmm "nationality", every feudal Pan was forcing peasants to slavery... This was uprise which lead peasants of different descent to fight with feudal nobles and the same Rutherian nobles as Polish, Wiśniowiecki was Ukrainian the same as CHmielnicki (Kmelnytsky).

[Ivashchuk303]

ukrainians at the sich never wanted to be part of the polish-lithunian commonwealth army

POLES wanted them to be and payed them to be

cossacks who went into the commonwealth were called registered cossacks no hetman and not many soldiers of the sich (ukraine) ever wanted to be part of the commonwealth army learn your history

[mikolajoskierko]

So i`m learning about Polish-Muscovite war 1609-1615, Khotyn and Hetman Sagajdachny. Most of Cossac uprising were becouse of TOO SMALL register, in every negotiations with Khmelnycky (he was Polish officer till age 54...) standed as a one of first points "hire more Cossacs to army". Cossacs were getting money and freedom, others were treated like peasants. Registred Cossacs had thier Hetman and tell me is it any suprise for you that the first Ataman of Zaporiżżja was Jaremas ancestor?

[artifaktus]

This is the funniest thing I have ever heard. This is why they always wanted to make the register bigger? Every non-registery Cossack was treated like a peasant, so he wanted to become the registered one. He gained gold and red cloth as payment. Remember that Chmielnicku's uprising began after the ideas of war with Turkey and a big army of Cossacks serving the Commonwealth was not raised.

[ziolo334]

yo're right artifaktus. cossacks just want back therir rights, it was a civil war , there were a lot of ukrainian on which fight on polish side(for example Jarema Wisniowiecki ,the best commander in Crown army) cossacks even said they don't want war with king and Commonwealth,

[BratWody]

CosSacdonks were not Ukrainian my friend dont spread nationalistic propaganda.

Cossacks= polish and rus peasents who wanted to be free people and did nto want to suffer nobelmen might.

Were they a nation that time?

I don't think so- why?

Because Prince Jarema was not Polish and first of all they had war with him for right causes in my opinion. Crowns Army got involed much later when the Prince noticed his private army was to weak.

[MsOKZS]

@BratWody You remind me some Russian neo nazis who claim that there was never Ukrainians. And who were Rus? Or you going to say that there were today's Russians???? The word ukraina is first recorded in Hypatian Codex of the 12 &13-century Primary Chronicle. In the 16 century, both Polish and Ukrainian sources used the word Ukraina with specific reference to the large south-eastern Kiev Voivodeship, including the voivodships of Bratslav after 1569 and Chernihiv after 1619. So grow up.

[MsOKZS]

@BratWody If you are a Polish patriot then look in the history & learn what happened to Poland when Poles refused to seek an agreement with Ukraine(peasants or not is secondary)

I love Ukraine & I know that every time when 2 our prideful nations arguet wins only one country– Russia. Definition of insanity: “to do the same thing & expect different results”. Unless you hate Poland completely, the last thing you should do FOR POLAND is to fight & insult Ukraine. Luckily Poland is our friend today.

[MsOKZS]

@BratWody In his documentary "Ukraine-birth of the nation" famous JERZY HOFFMAN says that in the past Poland lost many opportunities in Polish-Ukrainian relationships,& because Poles failed to find an agreement with Ukrainians,Poland was divided 4 times, for 150 years seized to exist & in 20c.got communism.I also read comment written by a smart Pole:if in 17c. Polish nobility gave the same rights & freedoms to Ukrainians they gave to Lithuania, the fate of our 3 nations would be different today.