Obama to Turkey We are not a Christian nation

[coughyhead]

You are right, there are Christians here though, they just want to take it away because they are angry Jesus Christ is really coming back on the last day. The devil is running out of time, and Jesus must be doing something.

[gnarly2smooth]

How can we be angry about something that we don't even believe in? You should probably think about what you're saying before it just comes out.

[coughyhead]

Yes, we are a Christian country. Thanks Obama.

[packetscan]

@coughyhead No America is not a christian nation, check history. Not revisionist history.

[bgibb101]

@AnonymousElectron - For the record - no - I do NOT believe that the moon landings were fake or that thw WTC was brought down by controlled explosions. I deal with facts. And the facts are, Obama will not reveal his birth certificate or college application/transcripts becasue both will show where he was really born.

[AnonymousElektron]

@bgibb101 Try to see things from my point of view, please.

Try being an American in your 20s.

If you have a salaried job with company healthcare, you'll likely be satisfied with the current system.

Otherwise, you'll see how bad it is.

I remember last summer having to take a car service to the hospital with my friend who broke her ankle, because she didn't want to pay the $800 ambulance fee.

Until I got my current job, I've had to forgo medical treatment because I couldn't afford a checkup.

[bgibb101]

@AnonymousElektron - OK, I take your point. Even here in Canada you have to pay for your ambulance ride, which is up to $400.00 in some provinces. As far as the standard of care is concerned, France is # 1 with Italy # 2. Britain is 11th and Canada is at # 30. The United States spends a stunning $3,724 per person on health each year, over $1,000 more per person than France. But is not just the amount we spend, its how these health care systems are actually managed.As it happens.....

[AnonymousElektron]

@bgibb101 and I think high-speed rail is perfectly reasonable -- it's worked out great in Europe and Asia.

It's had decades to prove itself, it pays for itself, and everyone loves it.

The only semi-highspeed rail line we have in the whole country, is wildly popular.

And yet Obama is smeared as being insane for proposing a national highspeed rail network.

Instead, we should continue to pivot our entire economy around petroleum.

[bgibb101]

@AnonymousElektron - Believe it or not - I agree with Obama. the USA of all countries should have a good high speed rail nertwork.It works elsewhere and is proven technology. I also believe that its just crazy the way everything runs of fossil fuels. We are oil addicts, no question. There should be more investment in alternative power sources. Two years ago I went on a tour of the Hoover Dam outstanding! Hydro power is safe, clean and much underrated.

[AnonymousElektron]

@bgibb101 with a few rare exceptions, like new york, toronto, montreal, or san francisco, you must own a car, and you must buy gasoline.

Red states are more than happy to accept billions of dollars to build sprawling highways to nowhere and subsidize automobile use, but trying to have reasonable public transit apparently makes me a pink-blooded commie!!

We should have some pride in our infrastructure.

It's not even an issue in Europe.

[bgibb101]

@AnonymousElektron - I'm gfuessing that the EU has a lot to do about making sire that the road systems are as seamless as possible in all member states, with the exception of the UK which ias, of course, an island. A good public transportation system is the life blood of any country, and I agree with you that the US should be looking much closer at this ion order to reduce the number of individual cars and trucks in everyday use.

[AnonymousElektron]

@bgibb101 I'm an engineer, I like systems that are efficient.

It's blindingly obvious that many things in this country are BROKEN, and need to be fixed.

Healthcare, public transit, education.

The democrats, at least in theory, are acknowledging these problems.

And I'm not a huge fan of Obamacare, nor of Canadian single-payer style healthcare.

BUT, I know for a fact that the system here DOES NOT WORK, and it must change.

[AnonymousElektron]

Since the founding of our country, it is explicitly stated in our laws, and in our treaties, that we're a secular country.

Especially to differentiate ourselves from theocracies that existed at the time.

Be a Christian all you like but don't pretend that you're better than atheists, or non-christians.

[gonnabewilddotcom]

Please vote for this man in 2012

[bgibb101]

It would be so tragic if it wasn't for the fact that Obama is not even eligible to be president. His birth certificate AND all college & university transcripts are under federal wraps. Very odd that someone who now holds the most powerful piolitical office on earth is so determined to hide vital details of his past.

[unqueued]

@bgibb101 you're a moron.

America is a secular nation.

The word "god" does not appear once in our constitution.

[bgibb101]

@unqueued - When did I say the word 'God' did appear in the Constitution? Your own abusive tone speaks volumes for your lack of education.

[AnonymousElektron]

@bgibb101 abusive?

How is it abusive to express his abhorrence at ignorance?

The fact is, George Washington is on record as explicitly excising the word "god" from the declaration of independence, instead opting for the more inclusive "endowed by our creator", CREATOR, not GOD.

Our founding fathers went out of their way to make it clear that America is a SECULAR nation, and they didn't want there to be any confusion about that.

[bgibb101]

@AnonymousElektron - OK aso who is the Creator? He is commonly referred to as 'God.' But, to get to the point, Obama is the worst President the USA has ever had, including Bush.

[AnonymousElektron]

@bgibb101 "creator" is NOT God.

If the founders had meant to say God, they would have said God!

They went out of their way NOT to do that.

In-fact, the original drafts did contain the sentence "all men are created equal under the lord", but they specifically excised it, because they did NOT want America to be a Christian nation.

You wouldn't have liked our founding fathers very much.

They were a bunch of ivy-league elitist multilingual atheist anarchists.

[AnonymousElektron]

@bgibb101 they partied in Paris and had kinky sex.

They smoked the hemp that they grew.

Jefferson went out of his way to edit the King James bible, and remove about 2/3rds of it, add his own notes, and publish the so called "Jefferson bible".

I think very few of these men could be considered "Christian", and certainly not by the standards of today's teabaggers.

Because of the political environment today, any of our founding fathers would essentially be unelectable.

Glenn Beck would smear them.

[AnonymousElektron]

@bgibb101 you authoritarian conservatives would have sided with the British in a heartbeat.

You don't like change, and you cling to tradition for tradition's sake.

You reduce the world to the simplest possible terms of right and wrong.

The world is a complex and ambiguous place.

And yes, several founding fathers were explicitly atheist, or theists.

But, back then, people had the decency to keep their beliefs private, so we may never know exactly what they believed.

Washington refused to.

[bgibb101]

@AnonymousElektron - What kind of 'change' you are talking about? If you are talking about the least vetted President in US history who has hidden his birth certificate and college transcripts from scrutiny, kisses up to dictators, spends trillions of tax dollars of useless 'stimulus' spending, and tries to force a USSR-style 'healthcare' service on 330 million people, then America can do without that kind of 'change.' As for keeping one's faith private, tell that to the Islamists.

[AnonymousElektron]

@bgibb101 change like defying the crown and forming a radically new form of government.

You so would have been a loyalist, admit it.

I'm a patriot.

And I would hardly call Obamacare "USSR-style", that's crazy.

Maybe our system works for you, but it doesn't work for most of us, it needs to be fixed.

And while you may not find his presidential style agreeable, I think you're being unfair.

Being diplomatic isn't the same as "kissing up", and your boy W loved making out with the Saudis.

[AnonymousElektron]

@bgibb101 we spend far more per-capita on health-care than any other nation, and it's bankrupting us.

I'm not going to engage you about healthcare, but, you sir, are misinformed.

You probably haven't bothered looking into how much worse it's gotten in the last decade.

President Obama is obviously an intellectual, and he doesn't have to dumb himself down to risk offending the stupid bloc.

I wish he'd implement good healthcare, funding for public transit, the space program, etc.

[bgibb101]

@AnonymousElektron - Having been born and raised in the UK and now living in Canada, I know more about socilized healthcare than you think. The problem is, NOT how much you spend, but how the system is managed. If the UK, Canada, or even the USA would only look at France and Switzerland - two countries I visited last year - then lessons can be learned. Obama might be an intellectual, but that does not qualify him to be President. I wonder how many 'stupid members of the public' voted for him?

[AnonymousElektron]

@bgibb101 Yeah, well, I saw what the UK did to the country I was born in, that my parents are from, Rhodesia, which is now a barren wasteland run by illiterate thugs -- black rednecks -- racist ignorant and deeply faith-based.

Although most people don't know what the other meaning of the word redneck is, I'm using the American meaning of the word...

ZANU-PF, or the dominist evangelical movement, you're all the same.

You surrender reason to a "higher power" and do horrible things.

[bgibb101]

@AnonymousElektron - I'm from Scotland - not England. It was Thatcher and Soames who betrayed the Rhodesians. I have two friends who were Rhodesian SAS. They told me how Mugabe's "boys" went into N'bele vilages and threatened to cut their throats if they didn't vote for 'Comrade Mugabe.' Mugabe might call himself a cathloic, but his actions are vastly different. Its Africa all over, isn;t it? the 'big man' of the biggest tribe wins, then wages genocide against anyone who gets in his way.

[AnonymousElektron]

@bgibb101 well I was only 5 when I left so I don't really remember much, I consider myself an American more than anything...

[AnonymousElektron]

@bgibb101 I wish Obama would just come out of the closet already and admit that he's an atheist.

Faith is the cause of most of the worlds problems.

Whether it's Allah, a witch-doctor, or our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, it's a mind toxin that needs to be PURGED.

But I understand that he can't openly say that, because we've fallen so far as a society, that you can't even admit to being an atheist.

But he's our guy, and frankly, people like me are disseminated he's not doing more.

[AnonymousElektron]

@bgibb101 Disagree with Obama on policy, but don't buy into these foolish conspiracy theories.

The fact that Obama would have to seriously dispel such accusations is like how people in candidates in both Pakistan and "Zimbabwe" had to seriously deny accusations of witchcraft.

You're only one-step removed.

And when I see hordes of Christian teabaggers demanding Medicaid handouts and demanding to see Obama's birth certificate I'm strongly reminded of illiterate but barbaric ZANU terrorist hordes.

[bgibb101]

@AnonymousElektron - So, WHERE'S THE FUCKING BIRTH CERTIFICATE?

[bgibb101]

@AnonymousElektron - Never comopare the teaBaggers to ZANU-PF. Tea baggers are Americans who work for a living and are deeply concerned about the future of their country. But you wouldn't understand that, would you? in fact you are revealing the same sort of bigotry that you accuse others of.

[AnonymousElektron]

@bgibb101 Obviously, teabaggers are nothing close to them, obviously.

But, they're culturally very different, and they want to take this country in a direction I don't agree with, and they don't like weirdos like me.

They'd call me a faggot and throw rocks at me.

IT'S HAPPENED.

So I'm not exactly enthralled by them.

And in general, they want us to be more dependent on oil, and drive big SUVs, and goto megachurches -- I do not like them.

[AnonymousElektron]

@bgibb101 when I see rallies of people being irrational, I can't help but compare them, in my mind, to hordes of Pakistanis being outraged about a Koran being burnt, or something stupid like that, just like Christians did in this country for the Last temptation of Christ movie.

Obviously, they're not nearly as violent or horrible, but I can't help but make that comparison, they're irrational.

[AnonymousElektron]

@bgibb101 you probably think I'm out of touch because I live in Manhattan and intern at the UN.

I get that a lot.

Well, ya know what, I've traveled all over the world.

And several times I've taken buses to, for example, Pittsburgh, or New Orleans, so I've seen this country.

And what Obama knows but can't say openly is that a good chunk of you are ignorant Rednecks who can't be trusted to make rational decisions.

I really believe that we need a "New World Order", sooner, rather than later.

[bgibb101]

@AnonymousElektron - "ignorant recneck?' Why? Because I dare to ask questions? Or because I do not agree with you? |I hold two degrees, have travelled the world more than once own my own business and do not associate with "rednecks' as you put it. Obama is a fraud, a liar and will ruin the USA beyond recovery if he gets a second term. We know less about him than any previous President. Again I ask - WHERE'S THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE?

[AnonymousElektron]

@bgibb101 because only a redneck would ask why such a foolish question.

It's equivalent to asking: Why were there controlled demolitions of WTC7??/?

It's a foolish conspiracy theory, it's stupid on every level.

Even if you got his birth cert you wouldn't be happy.

And what does it imply, that he's an impostor?

WHY??

That's so illogical.

And Canadian single-payer style healthcare is nothing like what Obama proposed, much less what the rest of the world uses.

[bgibb101]

@AnonymousElektron - OK, lets talk FACTS: Obama has a 30-year history of associating with unsavory characters, beginning with communist Frank Marshall Davis and continuing with Jeremiah Wright and communist terrorist Bill Ayers, including Bernardine Dohrn, which should have disqualified him from getting a security clearance to work as a janitor in the White House, never mind become the President. .So I ask again, WHY is his birth certificate and college being kept from the public? Why?

[AnonymousElektron]

@bgibb101 and I don't really have an answer about Obama, I don't know enough of the details.

The reason it doesn't bother me, is, most people have sordid pasts if you dig deep enough.

I don't think he's done anything particularly radical since he's been in power, do you?

[bgibb101]

@AnonymousElektron - But, back to healthcare.We should not be afraid to learn from other nations when it comes to healthcare. As i stated earlier, I was in Switzerland last year and was impressed by the whole country - how clean, efficient and well-run everything was. Everyone in Switzerland has health coverage (it's required by law), with the government providing generous subsidies for those who couldn't otherwise afford it. But then again, they only have 7.5 million people!

[bgibb101]

@AnonymousElektron - I will finish by saying that, having spent many years visiting Equatorial Africa, the Congo River alone has the potential to light up half the continent. There is huge potential in Africa, but until they can get rid of the despots and dictators, thing will stay the same. I see that many people in RSA are becoming fed up with the ANC and their corruption. It will be interesting to see what the DA will do in the next election?

[AnonymousElektron]

@bgibb101 there are so many examples of why democracy doesn't work, when the underlying society isn't ready for it.

I think that in order to get to a high government office, you should have to pass a rigorous battery of tests.

There's a reason that the "elite" are elite, that some of more qualified to rule than others.

If you hand things over to the seething masses, just look what happens, it's disgusting.

I don't want to see America have that happen.

Just get out of politics, please.

[bgibb101]

@AnonymousElektron - Blimey, and your a Rhodie? Yes, one party state government has done well for the former Rhodesia hasn't it? The reason we have democracy is to avoid becoming a demagogary. If you don't want people to have the vote just in case your favourite candidate loses, then it is YOU who should 'get out' of politics.

[AnonymousElektron]

@bgibb101 Are you seriously stuck on that?

Your biggest problem with the man is that you think he's a stealth-african?

Oi vey...

I mean granted, I'm a globalist, and I work for the UN, and I support the closest thing to what you types would call the "New World Order", but still, that's just weak, on so many levels.

Do you have fantasies about unseating him by finding his "real" birth certificate?

[bgibb101]

@AnonymousElektron - Obama is a fraud. He claims to be a Christian yet he refuses to support DOMA and is "ok" with partial birth abortion. As for the birth cerificate - I don't need to "find it." But Obama needs to show it. Why IS his birth certificate and college transcripts hidden under executive order/? What does he have to hide? These issues have far less to do with any 'conspiracy" but a lot more to do with the fact that he is the least vetted President in US history, and it shows.

[owheydusoapsk]

It feels good to have my president say these things. He's right in that we are not a theocracy of any type.