A beautiful chant, and again it has attracted all the "history experts", who compete here esp. in condemning America (I am far from praising headlessly everything American but ...). Nonetheless, this is so beautiful that it it is worth listening to more times.
This will probably sound stupid...in the last few years many people converted into Orthodox ( Thanks God ) For example : Japansese and American Orthodox Churck...ok is that some kind of joke ? American ? they are worst killers in history...plus lets say when America become Orthodox Country they will boss to real and old Orthodox countrys like Greece..Serbia also.That is just mine opinion
The Americans are not the worst killers in history, there have been many civilizations that have done worse than them. Besides, can't a sinner, whether a group or an individual, repent/convert to Orthodoxy? Just as the Good Thief. The Lord will judge accordingly, yes?
I hope that is not what happens, coming from an American. The traditional Patriarchates should not be overruled by any american kind, and i hope if America does become Orthodox, it does not become nationalistic with it, but instead stays true to the traditions.
@Gunnarr123abc Here's another example...Russian Orthodox Church...Serbian Orthodox Church is older then Russian..but Russian lets say ''Command to others'' its not a true ofc but its somthn like that,,,
The Choir sounds wonderful: brings up very deep sacred thoughts! Pround to be Russian Orthodox, and I'll definitely try to visit Russian Orthodox Cathedral next time I'm in WDC
No one loves and care for Russia more than Serbia...and no one love Serbia more than Russia...that's how it always be!!! Brothers and Sisters forever....'till god take us all....mir boziji
I really liked your video and your channel. If you need any help getting this video or channel exposed I use a site called tubeviews.(net) It has really helped like 20 of my main videos get to the top in position. God Bless!
Спасибо брат за это прекрасны видео.Мы имеют одна религия, и та же кровь и душу, и мы всегда быть братья.Да здравствует мати Россия!Бог благословит вас.Господи, помилуй!Привет из Сербии и Черногории.
So none of you self-professed critics of the Church Gospels and Ancient Writers can appreciate the music; only grouse about meaningless timing of the writers. Who cares? To be Orthodox here is to live in the music. Stop you "intellectual" arguing and sit back to enjoy the voices. A pox on all your houses!
Unfortunately I cannot partake in this debate. Only overzealous Americans with no concept of the world at large can comment. So I would not dare step on their toes. But this does sound amazing. It is so angelic that it makes me wonder why we are fighting on the wrong side. I am ashamed to be english sometimes
You have to be an Biblical Archaeologist; tracing the MESSAGE, each element; not WHOLE manuscripts... the Gospels and Epistles of the New Testament ARE NOT a GESTALT (Sum of their parts); they are very much a compartmentalized collection of elements that existed as many books/ scriptures to serve many regions; and were finally brought together; THIS COULD ONLY HAPPEN after the fall of Pagan Rome; and the rise of the Byzantine Empire--with the 7 Ecumenical Councils.
BOOK of MATTHEW; authorship [fr; 'Orthodox Study Bible']
AUTHOR-
Though the gospel does not name Matthew as the author, all the early manuscripts attribute authorship to Matthew, one of the twelve diciples listed in the New Testament. His authorship is atteste by the universal witness of the ancient Church.
Matthew could have been written as early as AD 50, but it is more likely that it was written after the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70. It was probably written over a period of years while Mattew resided in Antioch, where the church was a strong, mixed community of Jewish and Gentile Christians. St. Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch AD 67-107, is one of the earliest witnesses to the existence of THIS gospel.*
*This means the entire manuscript; THIS COMPLETE copy; including Matthew 28:9-20; which independly verifies with witness, the book of MARK and Mark 16:9-20; you will have to research St. Ignatius' account yourself...
The Gospel of Matthew, though it has come down to us in Greek, has a Jewish/Hebraic flavor, evident in its Aramaic expressions and forms and in its use of numerous quotations and arguments from the Old Testament. Furthermore, Matthew gives details of Jewish religious observances and often use Jewish STYLE and TECHNIQUES of arguement. God's final judgment, pictured in apocalyptic images common in Jewish writings, is also emphasized...
...Papias, a second-century Christian author, preserves the tradition that Matthew wrote the sayings of Christ in Aramaic, the common language of the Jews at the time of Christ, and that others later FREELY TRANSLATED THIS WORK INTO GREEK.*
*I do not know how Linguistically inclined you are; but try to imagine the dramatic change in worldview and interpretation of certain syntax and morphemes; when an ancient text (over a millenia) goes from...
...Aramaic to Hebraic to Greek; then transcribed (by hand) for centuries; a Latin version emerges... A CANON is devised to control this; and then finally--sort it all out, unify it, and bring it together into English (Old English-KJV); and eventually then have to RETOOL it again for the New English Lexicon.
A feat only capable of the Father, Son, and Holy spirit--all so you can doubt the underlying most basic principles; and criticize the history of the manuscripts. Shall we continue?
Mark the Apostle, also known as John Mark, is widely ATTESTED by the ANCIENT CHURCH as the author of this gospel. He traveled with Paul and Barnabas and later aided Peter (1Pt 5:13). According to tradition, Mark subsequently used Peter's teachings as his primary source for this gospel, adding to it his personal experiance and other church traditions.
As with the other gospels, the exact date of writing is uncertain. Because of its connection with Rome and its lack of any clear reference to the destruction of Jerusalem (13:2), the Gospel of Mark may be dated shortly before the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70. Many believe this was the first of the four gospels to be written.*
*If truly the first; and with the witness of St. Ignatius--there can be NO FURTHER debate of the validity of MARK 16/MATTHEW 28:9-20
According to some Church Fathers, Mark is writing for the Christian community of Rome, which either was experiancing the great persecution by Nero (beginning AD 64) or was caught up in the apocalyptic fervor occasioned by the Jewish war (Jerusalem was destroyed in AD 70). Mark tells the story of Jesus so his readers may see their own suffering as a prelude to the glorius Second Coming of Jesus and may discern the reward of those who endure to the end...
...The suffering and the glory are equally real: this was true for Jesus and will be true for ALL BELIEVERS.
The earliest manuscripts of Mark end abruptly at 16:8. Later manuscripts provide additional material (16:9-20), included in this and other versions, which the Church recognizes as 'inspired.'*
*The Church is saying here--that in MARK (but not Matthew); verses 9-20 are added to complete the gospel. This is NOT an invention! It is no different than the process by which the ENTIRE BOOK of ACTS was fused and patched together. With ACTS, most of the material is independantly verified by the scriptures in the Books of John, Mark, Matthew and so on--and their histories.
With the Completeness and ORIGINAL entirety of MATTHEW, witnessed by St. Ignatius; their is no doubt to validity.
Macarius, I know very well that Mark is the first to have been written. But 16:9-20 was clearly written later than all the rest of the book. You say that it was written before and added later. Ok, you say that. There is no proof at all. Shall we continue? Of course not. If you want the last word on this page, take it. If you want to convince me about something that has no proof at all, I really have enough of this. I will not answer you anymore here. You have NO PROOFS of what you say. Point.
for something so beautiful all we get are these sordid comments. People, the chants and the music come from both the tradition and the experience of faith. Can't we just celebrate the beauty of that? Too many people died because of believing in God already. I just want to hear people hope back and sing back what God has given, love.
Hey, take it easy, I didn't kill anyone, I just told what I think. You will not accuse me of killing people because they were believing in God, I hope?
Orthodox Monks sing for the edification and magnification of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; the Holy Theotokos (Mother of God); and all the Saints. They are filled with the Holy Spirit--every piece of music has a specific, organic, and very much ALIVE and WELL place in the liturgical life of the Church; your mere 'musical appreciation' is irrelavent, perhaps disrespectful and at the least--ignorant.
Also KNOW that the Orthodox Church has NEVER sponsored, in any official and/or large-scale operation; military or guerilla or administrative violence against the people of the world (that would not be Christ-like, nor Saintly); The Orthodox Church fought in PART of the crusades to protect the Holy City (the seat of Christendom-Constanople, which was under constant attack/seige; and eventually fell; then True Christendom moved to Russia (the 3rd Rome; thus, the Tsars Greek/Slavonic for "Caesars")
You have groups out there like--"The SERBIAN ORTHODOX BROTHERS" etc. who are no better than the Irish Republican Army. The youth, raised in a Balkan war environment, must fight for the survival of their race, and naturally, over time develop a street-gang/terrorist mentality. THEY are lost lambs.
Before you start "spinning out of control" and "losing your Faith" over a verse; be a discerning a wise Christian and DO YOUR HOMEWORK. It is ALL there. The Old Testament that We Orthodox have is SAAS (Saint Athanius Academy Septuagent) which is the direct translation of the original SAAS Hebrew/ Greek scholars centuries ago. Post-Canon NEW TESTAMENT/ Pre-King James will really begin to triangulate your answers.
If you have 'concerns' over your version of the Holy Bible; guess what: GOOD! You have taken your first step towards true enlightenment and the True Faith; you were close before but had the incomplete picture. Get an ORTHODOX STUDY BIBLE (doesn't mean you are or have to be Orthodox; infact there is an introduction and many essays in there that are for the general Christian audience; it is YOUR inheritance;
The Valaam Choir and the Serbians are exquisite in their musical magnification of Christ, our Lord, the Savior of our souls. Xenios; Mariotime12; and SerbWarrior--Christ teaches us to "Love the least of these..." as all peoples are are part of HIM and what you think, say, and do to one, you do to HIM... Xenios--be at peace; you will find your answers.
Xenios2 I respect your beliefs (which are none at all) well ne wyas if you are interested in watching some good videos. Watch D'inesh D'Souza debate Daniel Dennette and also Christopher Hitchens. Also Richard Dawkins does not want to debate him because in a true debate where not only science but history and the whole nine yards is taken into account you come to the conclusion that not only does God exist but that by his very nature he deserves to be worshipped perfectly. ^_^ God Bless you Xenios
Thank you but there is no proof of what you say about God. The only proof is the fact that you want Him, but a smart person, after considering a fact, asks himself also about the causes of it. So try to ask yourself why you want God. Isn't it because you need to find a meaning in your life? Isn't the main characteristic of men to find a meaning even where there is no meaning? Now, this has made men so powerful, their wish to find a meaning. It's a natural predisposition of men. This is history.
That sounds so pretty but I am sorry history is on my side. If I were an atheist I would suicide, because no matter how much pleasure or this or that I have. Non-existence afterward accounts for nothing you wont even remember all your goods. So yeah life pretty much sucks for you. Sorry even the greatest geniuses like Newton and many other like Leibnitz could not even take the idea of God away, real atheism has started only recently. They were Deists and believed in God.
I feel sorry for you in your lonely little "world", where you define your morality and still try to insist that the atheist is a trustworthy citizen and is a moral person. Please go back to your homosexual loving partner because for you anything goes. It takes to be a gay person to be atheist. You need to be a flamer and like it prison to be in that state of mind that is just pitiful. trust me I know because 3 of my brothers are atheist and they are well educated but sry to say they suk at life.
Look there is no reason to offend and insult like that. I like women, ok? And I like to have sex with them... not just with one of them as a wife. You want to put me in prison for my view of the world? I don't hate anybody, try to forgive offenses, respect people that are different from me (though sometimes I get angry but I am sorry for that). Please accept my excuses if I offended you. I didn't want to. I am just saying what my mind and my heart suggest me about the truth of life.
Look no one got offended here. The best Atheism can arrive to is in the world, will be altruism. But I am sorry if in the most basic unit of society the family, yiou can see big differences in brother's. One is kind other is angry etc... Different type of emotions and temperements. How would you expect FOR all of society to appreciate life if it were not for Christianity. The concept of the love of life that is a modern concept in the sense of after Christ.
Look at Sparta they killed you when you were a baby and if you look at all ancient civilizations a human was just a number. If you look at it only a few counted. The Romans at one point were about 50% slaves and the slave could be used for anything, for sexual exploitation, labor. And they did do that so in ancient life, there was no such thing as the individual. You are right Christ did say tell this to no man until the son of man rise again from the dead. But what you fail to notice is this.
Notice how all other ancient religions spread through violence and that was the only way known to convert people. But Christianity started as a completely peaceful religion up until maybe early middle ages. The Apostles were not called Apostles until they performed miracles like Christ did. That is the only reason why it spread so quickly, it was preaching by example. Christ elevated the human to godliness he brought it to the highest heights. Well I need to email you personally.
It is kind of hard to have a good discussion when you can only type so many words. But I love debating, I have debated countless and countless amount of years with my brothers and other apostates from the faith. And I will tell you that all of the apostates of the faith is never because of an intellectual problem with the faith, only a few geniuses may claim this. B/c to say that you understand the science to to level where you can justifiably say why you are an atheist and understand it
Just dont close yourself up and you will do fine. Dont think you are the most astute man that has the answers to all the questions out there. Even Richard Dawkins says that scientist: "Have to approach many questions with humility...". Most people leave Christianity because they fell like God is some type of dictator who accuses you of thought crime. So when ppl librt. themslvs from Christnty they feel "free from the chains of trad. reli. Most of the time its b/c of the 6th command.
The first thing that you will go and do is have sex with anyone you like without regard. You will say what is wrong with that? And defend your position. Most of the time it has to do b/c of this. Atheist usually dont want to deal with the moral question of human sexuality and what consists of what a normal mind and person should do. So one of the two things you can change your religion like many have done to a more "liberal" view of Christ teaching but some ppl cant lie to themselves.
B/c they know the clear position that Christ said about what rightful sex is and what it is not. Atheist see this a hindrance to "human progress", prohibiting human freedom etc. All natural things have their laws and balance but with human beings it is not as easy to tell what is and what is not the rightful balance b/c in nature a clear visual effect can be seen. (you jump a mt. and gravity pulls you down and you die) But the mind has its laws too and what the law of Christ does is balance ALL.
The problem is that I don't mind about what Christ said or not said if He did not resurrect. The point is: did He resurrect or not? If He did, we still can hold discussion about some smaller points, liberal christianity versus conservative christianity, but it is a problem very smaller. My present problem is that I have serious doubts about His resurrection.
Look, I tried sexual continence for 9 years and I was very sad of myself because I could not do it. I made many confessions to the priest for that, at least one per week. I suffered a lot and I was full of feeling guilty. I was very bad. Now I don't think anymore about confession and communion and I am very better. I just don't try anymore to contrast nature. I accept it. And everything goes better.
Yes I will never sure. I still search for elements. If I find new elements, I may turn again to religion as I turned from religion to atheism one month ago. About this also you are very right.
You are right, it is not only an intellectual problem. If it was just a matter like to believing in the legend of Santa Klaus, no one has problems in believing it because he does not risk anything. It is when you are asked to sacrify you happiness that you want to be sure about proofs. I don't give my life for something I am not sure it is true. If it was just to give 100 euro, I probably would say, ok, it is true and I will not search anything more.
You are right about this: I got many values from christianity, and I still hold many of them: love for truth, humbleness, love, altruism, forgiveness. And it is exactly because of these values that I now reject christianity: because it denies with one hand the same very values it proposes with the other hand. I just chose one of these two hands of christianity.
This discussion is very interesting, I'm sorry if I'm a little bit angry and sometimes I insult people here, it's because I'm atheist since a month only, before I was a Christian and I'm in the moment of the delusion. History is on your side. My delusion comes exactly from the fact that unfortunately I don't find any proof about the resurrection of Christ. I became atheist the last month after finding out that the first manuscripts of Mark ended at 16, 8. 16, 9-20 seems to have been added later.
And this is the elder of the four gospels. Do you know about Ceasar and Augustus? When Ceasar was assasinated, Augustus inherited from Ceasar, he had permission from the Senate to promulgate all the laws that Ceasar had written before to die. However, Augustus made also new laws of his own, and to make them effective he said that Ceasar had written them before to die. Scholars of history find out the trick from the fact that Agustus said: "Ceasar wrote these laws but he didn't say anybody".
Now, we have God who makes Himself man to save the world and to tell to the humans the Truth. He comes, he choses 12 men and He says many things to them 12 only. And He also says "Don't tell anybody untill my death and resurrection". What historians think about that? Just the same: Jesus didn't tell these things. These things were invented by the Apostoles later.
Not 'Invented,' the earliest known original, authentic Apostolic manuscripts (which were transcribed by specially chosen early-christian scribes... [some of which are very famous and have their own place in iconography..])
The unbroken historical, One Holy Apostolic [Orthodox] Catholic Church of Christ; the one and true, unadulterated, unchanged--inheratence of the 12 apostles, and their Saints; of the New Testament church, the 'Good News' the Gospel--testament of Christ and the epistles of his apostles... will fill in the gaps and restore the inherent and innate FAITH you possess; you a creature of the "natural law and light" and you know it. Find the TRUE FAITH.
I have you covered Xenios: You merely need a more complete Holy Bible; academically driven--with the most authoritative and ancient features: "The Orthodox Study Bible" [revised, 2008] like hot off the press...
Contains MARK 16:9-20 plus extensive footnotes and disposition information about these verses. These are NOT the only verses that have been ommitted/ altered from the King James Version of the Holy Bible btw... we shall continue in the next post.
For example: 'the Lord's Prayer' (in the King James Version in most bibles) ommits the line at the end of the prayer which is makes the prayer sacred and holy: "...For yours is the Kindom and the Power and the glory forever. Amen."
Which is a cue and hearkening for "For thine is the Power and the Glory of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." used in many Orthodox prayers and ALL services.
[1]'They said nothing to anyone' does not mean the women never said anything, but that they kept silent until Jesus appeared to them(v v. 9-11)
Xenios, you should NEVER lose faith over an issue like this; REJOICE--you have discovered the righteous and enlightening world of the ancient Christian APOCRAPHA (Books, Epistles, and Verses)
MARK 16:9-20 (apocraphal verses of the book of Mark)...
"(v9)Now when HE rose early on the first DAY of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cst seven demons.[2]
[2]16:9-20 Two early manuscripts do not contain these verses as part of Mark's Gospel, while nearly all other manuscrpts ever discovered have them. They are canonized scripture and are considered by the Church to be inspired, authoritative, and genuine.
(v10)She went and told those who had been with Him, as they mourned and wept.(v11)And when they heard tht He was alive and had not been seen by her, they did not believe. (v12)After that, He appeared in another form to two of them as they walked and went into the country.[3]
[3]16:12 'Another form;' Our Lord's resurrected body transcends not only physical space and time, but appearance as well. He was sometimes recognizeable to His disciples, while at other timesHe was not.
(v14)Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. (v15)And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.[4]
[4]Mt 28:19 This Great Commission-Our Lord's final commandment given on earth-is to be lived outin the Church until he returns again. Making deciples cannot be done in the strength of man, but only in the power of God. The power of the Resurrection is not only for Jesus Himself, but is given to all believers for Christian life and mission.
(v16)"Then the eleven disciples wnet away into Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had appointe for them. (v17)When they saw Him, they worshipped Him; but some doubted. (v18)And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, 'All authority has been given to Me in Heaven and on earth.[5]
[5]'All authority has been given to me' Christ declares that the authoritytht was His by nature in His divinity is now also possessed by His glorified human nature. This human nature has now trampled his final enemy
*It is noteworthy about this, of many apocraphal verses; that it includes the full use of Jesus quoting 'Father, Son, and Holy Spirit' which is the TRINITY and is commonly ommitted from Protestant versions of the bible.
Know also; that through intensive academic research--it has been revealed that a large body of Christ's quotes are unreliable as "genuine" (but these scholar's agenda are questionable) and the def. of genuine
Often, as with the BASE issue in Apostolic transmittion/ transcription/ and re-transcription of CHRIST's Testament involves a lot of memory, paraphrasing, and epic/ legendary storytelling "witnessing/ testifiying" of the miracle of the Messiah... the same issue with scribes dealing with the Apostolic scrolls... these testaments were never supposed to be legalistic transcripts; you don't win souls with Divine Committee meetings on earth... and Quarterly Journals on the PROCEEDINGS...
*Note: Amen is outside of Christ's final commandment and quote--this is a subtle (and common) sign that the passage is being commented/ venerated in prayer by the scribe; in some unedited New Testament epistles, the official scribe gives an OFFICIAL sign off and well-wishing!
[7]28:20 Christ Himself is present in each believer and in the Church ALWAYS, both personally and in the Holy Spirit, for neither can be separated from the other. To the end of the age does not by any means imply that we will be separated from him at the end of the world. He is with us now, and forever, and unto ages of ages. Amen.
And finally, to sanctify this work; and as an offering for XENIOS and all others: 'THE TRISAGION PRAYERS'
In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Amen.
Glory to You O Lord, Glory to You.
O heavenly king, O Comforter, the Spirit of truth the Treasury of good things and the Giver of life; Come and abide in us, cleanse us from every stain, and save our soul, O Good one.
Our Father, Who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread [spiritual food as well as sustenance] and forgive us our trespasses; as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from the evil-one.
Macarius, thank you for your work, but you miss my point. Ok, we NOW have also Mark 16:9-20. But they were written later than the rest of the Gospel of Mark. Later, do you understand that? So, for me, the resurrection of Christ is not believable because the first testimonies about it appeared later! First Christians didn't speak about the resurrection of Christ! It was invented later! 1) EARLIER manuscripts don't have Mark 16:9-20. We have it now, but not EARLIER.
Thank you Macarius, but you missed my point. Ok I know that we have also Mark 16:9-20, NOW. But it was added LATER. EARLIER manuscripts don't have it! So, for me the resurrection of Christ is not believable, because it was not said by the first Christians. It appeared after. And this clearly shows that it was invented. Firs of all, earlier manuscripts don't have Mark 16:-20.
Second, the fact that the earlier manuscripts finish with the fact that the women didn't say anybody clearly shows that it was the first time that someone wrote about the resurrection of Christ. It was a new thing, and he had to justify why nobody had heard about it before. That's why he says: they didn't say to anybody. He means: because of the fear, this was kept secret until now, and that's why you hear about this for the first time now.
Also, the secret is of the women, to explain why the Apostles never said it before. Finally, third thing: Mark 16:9 says "He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cst seven demons". It is so evident that this text is not the same of Mark until 16:8. It even starts before the point where Mark 16:8 had arrived! It is clearly not written by the same person! It is the collage of two different texts, the authentic being the one that was written earlier!
I am sorry, but this is what my reason tells me at the moment. Even Mark 16:1-8 was written many decades after the facts. Mark 16:9-20 may be even fifty years after the facts. This is not a believable account! Also, at the beginning emphasis was put on the empty grave, or to the angel. Only after does Jesus resurrected appear. If Jesus had really appeared, even earlier accounts would have spoken about Jesus appeared and the empty grave would have been of no interest for them.
Waspidi! OK; MY point (the point); is that YOUR empty version--IS the "Later" manuscript! Do you get that now? An incomplete manuscript. Also understand that their were hundreds upon perhaps thousands of HAND-RECORDED manuscripts in existance; many were archived at the LIBRARY of ALEXANDRIA along with the MASTER-COPIES of Herodotus's Histories; Classical works; Classical Inventors; etc. The loss, really is incaluable; and mournful (I happen to be an Archivist--'Alexandria' makes me shudder)
That notwithstanding; the second greatest bastion of Christian manuscripts and histories and archives, was Constanople--capitol of Byzantium (Byzantine Empire) the heart of original and post-schism (orthodox) Christianity--which was eventually taken and sacked by the Muslim Turks. Constanople was always the 2nd target (to Jerusalem) during the crusades; much was saved; but much was lost then, also.
If the version that finishes at 16:8 is the later, then the earlier would be the complete version from 1 to 20. But this is impossible, because I already said you that 16:9-20 is clearly written by another author. If the author was the same, the fact that Mary Magdalene is the one from whom Jesus had freed the demons would have been said in Mark 16:1, when she was firstly introduced, and not in 16:9. The author of 16:9-20 was firstly introducing Mary Magdalene in versus 9!
OK, ok--back-up; first of all; you do know that the entire NEW TESTAMENT is replete with replicate verses (from book to book to epistle) depending on the perspective of the author and/or the goal and aim of the original manuscript [try to remember that originally each of these were hundreds, sometimes thousands of miles away; and then retranscribed; and FINALLY CANONIZED into a Holy Bible (bib-le [bib-ley] 'book') to minimize the "percieved paradoxes" you are experiancing.
The entire book of ACTS is a manuscript rehashing/ retelling the most important contributions/ events of the apostles in relation to the epic events of Christ--a synopsis if you will; and then the description of Pentecost, and the development of the Early Church (Orthodox Christian Church).
Amazing choir!
AntoniettaChines1222 2 weeks ago
This is so...so...so...haunting and beautiful...
KittyLaBamBam 2 months ago
Dmitri Popov on one end, Mikhail Kruglov on the other. Delightful!
KjeXXXer 4 months ago
thank your for sharing!
beste grüße aus deutschland
TheKomando007 4 months ago in playlist Weitere Videos von gtrubetskoy
very beautiful.
PK1988 5 months ago
This is so beautiful! Does anybody know if this is available on CD? Or as an MP3?
Uhanek 6 months ago
That's no good. It's mocking the real traditions.
ChildrenOfRadiation 6 months ago
What an amazing song... I catched a glipse of the Heaven during 2 mn 50... Sure the angels sing exactly this in the Paradise...
The Truth is here... God Himself is here...
You orthodox please keep your traditions like the most precious treasure!
We catholic have lost our traditions 50 years ago... and then, now, we have lost the faith...
fan2jnrc 8 months ago 4
@fan2jnrc: Return to Orthodoxy, my brother. Receive communion by returning Home to Her: the Church.
dimic 2 months ago
great x
Louiezemusic 9 months ago
A beautiful chant, and again it has attracted all the "history experts", who compete here esp. in condemning America (I am far from praising headlessly everything American but ...). Nonetheless, this is so beautiful that it it is worth listening to more times.
ioan01 9 months ago
I can't find any more videos of these guys, any body else seen any on youtube?
E3Harrison 9 months ago
ΟΡΘΟΔΟΧΙΑ Η ΘΑΝΑΤΟΣ...
TheKazanokefalos 10 months ago 2
that is the most amazing voice I have ever heard in my life.
E3Harrison 10 months ago
Bože......
voluptuousburlesque 1 year ago
This will probably sound stupid...in the last few years many people converted into Orthodox ( Thanks God ) For example : Japansese and American Orthodox Churck...ok is that some kind of joke ? American ? they are worst killers in history...plus lets say when America become Orthodox Country they will boss to real and old Orthodox countrys like Greece..Serbia also.That is just mine opinion
SerbianTerrorist99 1 year ago
@SerbianTerrorist99
The Americans are not the worst killers in history, there have been many civilizations that have done worse than them. Besides, can't a sinner, whether a group or an individual, repent/convert to Orthodoxy? Just as the Good Thief. The Lord will judge accordingly, yes?
Gunnarr123abc 1 year ago
@Gunnarr123abc He said ''they will boss to real and old Orthodox countrys '' and i totally AGREE !
Nemanja1475 9 months ago
@Nemanja1475
I hope that is not what happens, coming from an American. The traditional Patriarchates should not be overruled by any american kind, and i hope if America does become Orthodox, it does not become nationalistic with it, but instead stays true to the traditions.
Gunnarr123abc 9 months ago
@Gunnarr123abc Here's another example...Russian Orthodox Church...Serbian Orthodox Church is older then Russian..but Russian lets say ''Command to others'' its not a true ofc but its somthn like that,,,
Nemanja1475 9 months ago
@SerbianTerrorist99 Worst killers in history? Please open a history book before talking.
Cherm2222 10 months ago
ХРАНИ БОЖЕ НАШИХ СЕРБСКИХ БРАТЬЕВ
vapetrow 1 year ago 9
@vapetrow spasibo i hvala. thank you
RabMaksim 1 year ago
Forgive my ignorance I am still very new to Slavic linguistics, but is this Serbian or Church Slavonic?
Theimprebel 1 year ago
@Theimprebel The chant is in Church Slavonic/Slavic.
vetarnadstepom 1 year ago
excelent
Dimos886 1 year ago
Beautiful!
DaraJean 1 year ago
Soloist D.Popov
oktavistmk 1 year ago 2
A thought of peace from Romania , so profound, so beautiful...
TrevorR3znik 1 year ago
Si en el ordenador suenan esa voces de forma tan limpia y pura como será oirlas en vivo...en ese lugar de tan magnífica acústica.
Maravilloso.
reonina 1 year ago
woow i like!
SORCERERmanu 1 year ago
amazing! good job!
acerb45666555 1 year ago
Jesus is risen!
Мир вам христиане
timbigbraza 1 year ago
Thank-you, and good lent.
amalialovesicecream 2 years ago
very nice
greetings from Russia
leksus62 2 years ago 6
very nice..
VaheitogaTapu 2 years ago
Please add translation in english!
INXC
amalialovesicecream 2 years ago
"We magnify Thee, O Christ the Giver of life, Who for our sake now art baptized in the flesh by John, in the waters of the Jordan"
gtrubetskoy 2 years ago 13
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Jesus is risen!
Мир вам христиане
timbigbraza 1 year ago
Muy bonito si señor ... el ingles sobra , mejor en español , el idioma del futuro , que para eso el español es la segunda lengua , no el ingles ,
6020192 9 months ago
Прекрасно!
ostefanstefanov 2 years ago 6
Как прекрасно наше православное славянское единство. Привет из России братьям сербам, черногорцам, всем южным славянам
levmila 2 years ago 14
Veryyyy beautifull
Преубаво
+Greetings from Orthodox Macedonia to
all brothers and sisters
Поздрав од Православна Македонија до
сите браќа и сестри+
kumitavojvoda 2 years ago 7
Beautiful..
RockyBalboa211 2 years ago 2
Breathtaking.
papermason 2 years ago 2
i'm very far from an orthodox christian, but wow...beautiful and captivating...hypnotizing really, in a wonderful way
malina134 2 years ago 4
The Choir sounds wonderful: brings up very deep sacred thoughts! Pround to be Russian Orthodox, and I'll definitely try to visit Russian Orthodox Cathedral next time I'm in WDC
Thank you very much!
larisa1229 2 years ago
The Valaam Choir is absolutely amazing to listen to... "God Save the Czar" CD, track #5... WOW!!!
Lance in Montreal, Quebec, Canada
LanceCampeau 2 years ago
I just want to say this sounds beautiful, but I am not religieus in any way. I
ayreonfreak 2 years ago 6
proud to be orthodox.serb 4 life,orthodox 4 life.....
venom8325 2 years ago 7
I'm russian orthodox, so thank you for putting this up.
Raintalon89 2 years ago 3
Это прекрасно !!!
maximatort 2 years ago 5
Amen WinstoneP!!!
This is truly music inspired by an authentic experience with the divine.
ahoyadave 2 years ago
Much love from a Roman Catholic who loves his Orthodox brothers. Winstone in London UK
WinstoneP 2 years ago 13
Greeting from Canada,heaven on earth!
Medalion22 2 years ago 5
Thank you for this very blessed video.
God bless all orthodoxy thru out in tire world Amin!
NUSRPKINA 2 years ago 8
Beautiful, greeting from the Coptic Orthodox church in Egypt. God bless your souls.
Stay strong in the Orthodox faith and do not deviate from the apostolic Traditions.
subzeroicefrost 2 years ago 10
This has been flagged as spam show
Very beautiful! :)
orthodoxmoses916 2 years ago 3
Дивно.
Слава Господу и Пресветој богородици...
bulbulcujka 2 years ago 5
I'm not catholic or anything, but this gives me chills. so haunting and beautiful
westindixie 2 years ago 6
To our Russian and Serbian Orthodox Brothers! God Bless You! True Romanians are by your side till death.
CavalerVlah 2 years ago 73
And you know that we will always be with Romania brother.
OrthodoxSerbia 2 years ago 9
@CavalerVlah thank you Romanian brother...may God save our brotherhood in Christ through eternity...
mmarkomann 1 month ago
So beautiful! This makes my heart pound. God be praised.
papermason 2 years ago 7
Divina voz, que buen gusto!!! y que dominio de la técnica
andaluza8588 2 years ago 5
WOW!!!! it gave me goosebumps. BEAUTIFUL!!!
rumble301 2 years ago 9
orthodox forever!
zimzelena 2 years ago 10
wOw!!!!!!!! amazing.....one gets a real awe of Gods Holiness when listening to this....
louisasmiles 2 years ago 8
Sohranit' Gospod Rossiju velykuju i slavnuju na mnogaja leta! Privet iz Serbii, bratija rodnie!
Hristos voskrese!
Da voskresnet i Pravoslavie!
Krashnaak 2 years ago 47
Voistinu Voskrese! Da sohranit Presv'ataja Bogorodica Serbiju mnogostradal'nuju! Nashe serdce s vami!
kafkaikoshka 2 years ago 4
Amin'!
Krashnaak 2 years ago 5
Chant admirable qui laisse une impression profonde. Extraordinaire !
saturne46 2 years ago
Сербия и Россия вместе до и после скончания века!
devfz1991 2 years ago 9
lol
Christianfighter94 2 years ago
No one loves and care for Russia more than Serbia...and no one love Serbia more than Russia...that's how it always be!!! Brothers and Sisters forever....'till god take us all....mir boziji
nikolawesthemkg 2 years ago 8
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I really liked your video and your channel. If you need any help getting this video or channel exposed I use a site called tubeviews.(net) It has really helped like 20 of my main videos get to the top in position. God Bless!
Very Lovely....
KristenJohnsone 2 years ago
Beautiful, a blessing,
Mngoya Leta!
NEWREDDAWN 2 years ago
Predivno!!! Unbelievable! Apistefto!
kneeviss 2 years ago
Спасибо брат за это прекрасны видео.Мы имеют одна религия, и та же кровь и душу, и мы всегда быть братья.Да здравствует мати Россия!Бог благословит вас.Господи, помилуй!Привет из Сербии и Черногории.
serbiansoul23 2 years ago 4
srbija-rusija-greece
simeonikola 2 years ago 2
greece = hellas. THE NEW BYZANTINE EMPIRE! ALL SLAVIC COUNTRIES AND GREECE AND ANATOLIA !
gaastra12 2 years ago 3
Serbija,my sister!
danilovsky22 3 years ago
Gorgeously divine!
SphericSenseS 3 years ago
i love these kind of music!!
PutrescentSoul 3 years ago
Dimka! I see you on youtube-- out of all places...
esharkova 3 years ago
Хор Санкт-Петербургского подворья Валаамского монастыря
Smartformer 3 years ago 3
my favorite choir ... i love the north as forever will,
akushiii 3 years ago
I saw them a long time ago when they came to my Church in Riverside, CA. Does anyone know if they have a website that I could buy their CD's?
mbussey86 3 years ago
Wonderful sound, beautifully performed. God bless you and keep doing the same.
woodpeckerarizona 3 years ago 3
Is this Dmitry Popov??? I am about the soloist.
Thanks alot!
BachLoveNat 3 years ago
Very beautiful/Foarte frumos
ianisl 3 years ago
Это так красиво.
dildopsychologist 3 years ago 3
americans are culturally handicapped for the most part...not very quick on picking up non-verbal signals/gestalts....btw this is truly great music!
bltsrmsqt 3 years ago
So none of you self-professed critics of the Church Gospels and Ancient Writers can appreciate the music; only grouse about meaningless timing of the writers. Who cares? To be Orthodox here is to live in the music. Stop you "intellectual" arguing and sit back to enjoy the voices. A pox on all your houses!
fidokalman 3 years ago 4
i've this one on CD but it's one tone lower and i like the live version better, great tenor must to say!
a520simba 3 years ago
Unfortunately I cannot partake in this debate. Only overzealous Americans with no concept of the world at large can comment. So I would not dare step on their toes. But this does sound amazing. It is so angelic that it makes me wonder why we are fighting on the wrong side. I am ashamed to be english sometimes
WhiteBook05 3 years ago
I believe you have made a comment in this "debate."
rrchapman 3 years ago
You have to be an Biblical Archaeologist; tracing the MESSAGE, each element; not WHOLE manuscripts... the Gospels and Epistles of the New Testament ARE NOT a GESTALT (Sum of their parts); they are very much a compartmentalized collection of elements that existed as many books/ scriptures to serve many regions; and were finally brought together; THIS COULD ONLY HAPPEN after the fall of Pagan Rome; and the rise of the Byzantine Empire--with the 7 Ecumenical Councils.
Macarius907 3 years ago
BOOK of MATTHEW; authorship [fr; 'Orthodox Study Bible']
AUTHOR-
Though the gospel does not name Matthew as the author, all the early manuscripts attribute authorship to Matthew, one of the twelve diciples listed in the New Testament. His authorship is atteste by the universal witness of the ancient Church.
Macarius907 3 years ago
BOOK of MATTHEW
DATE-
Matthew could have been written as early as AD 50, but it is more likely that it was written after the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70. It was probably written over a period of years while Mattew resided in Antioch, where the church was a strong, mixed community of Jewish and Gentile Christians. St. Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch AD 67-107, is one of the earliest witnesses to the existence of THIS gospel.*
Macarius907 3 years ago
*This means the entire manuscript; THIS COMPLETE copy; including Matthew 28:9-20; which independly verifies with witness, the book of MARK and Mark 16:9-20; you will have to research St. Ignatius' account yourself...
Macarius907 3 years ago
BOOK of MATTEW
BACKGROUND-
The Gospel of Matthew, though it has come down to us in Greek, has a Jewish/Hebraic flavor, evident in its Aramaic expressions and forms and in its use of numerous quotations and arguments from the Old Testament. Furthermore, Matthew gives details of Jewish religious observances and often use Jewish STYLE and TECHNIQUES of arguement. God's final judgment, pictured in apocalyptic images common in Jewish writings, is also emphasized...
Macarius907 3 years ago
BOOK of MATTHEW
BACKGROUND-continued-
...Papias, a second-century Christian author, preserves the tradition that Matthew wrote the sayings of Christ in Aramaic, the common language of the Jews at the time of Christ, and that others later FREELY TRANSLATED THIS WORK INTO GREEK.*
*I do not know how Linguistically inclined you are; but try to imagine the dramatic change in worldview and interpretation of certain syntax and morphemes; when an ancient text (over a millenia) goes from...
Macarius907 3 years ago
...Aramaic to Hebraic to Greek; then transcribed (by hand) for centuries; a Latin version emerges... A CANON is devised to control this; and then finally--sort it all out, unify it, and bring it together into English (Old English-KJV); and eventually then have to RETOOL it again for the New English Lexicon.
Macarius907 3 years ago
A feat only capable of the Father, Son, and Holy spirit--all so you can doubt the underlying most basic principles; and criticize the history of the manuscripts. Shall we continue?
Macarius907 3 years ago
BOOK of MARK
AUTHOR-
Mark the Apostle, also known as John Mark, is widely ATTESTED by the ANCIENT CHURCH as the author of this gospel. He traveled with Paul and Barnabas and later aided Peter (1Pt 5:13). According to tradition, Mark subsequently used Peter's teachings as his primary source for this gospel, adding to it his personal experiance and other church traditions.
Macarius907 3 years ago
BOOK of MARK
DATE-
As with the other gospels, the exact date of writing is uncertain. Because of its connection with Rome and its lack of any clear reference to the destruction of Jerusalem (13:2), the Gospel of Mark may be dated shortly before the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70. Many believe this was the first of the four gospels to be written.*
*If truly the first; and with the witness of St. Ignatius--there can be NO FURTHER debate of the validity of MARK 16/MATTHEW 28:9-20
Macarius907 3 years ago
BOOK of MARK
BACKGROUND-
According to some Church Fathers, Mark is writing for the Christian community of Rome, which either was experiancing the great persecution by Nero (beginning AD 64) or was caught up in the apocalyptic fervor occasioned by the Jewish war (Jerusalem was destroyed in AD 70). Mark tells the story of Jesus so his readers may see their own suffering as a prelude to the glorius Second Coming of Jesus and may discern the reward of those who endure to the end...
Macarius907 3 years ago
BOOK of MARK
BACKGROUND-continued-
...The suffering and the glory are equally real: this was true for Jesus and will be true for ALL BELIEVERS.
The earliest manuscripts of Mark end abruptly at 16:8. Later manuscripts provide additional material (16:9-20), included in this and other versions, which the Church recognizes as 'inspired.'*
Macarius907 3 years ago
*The Church is saying here--that in MARK (but not Matthew); verses 9-20 are added to complete the gospel. This is NOT an invention! It is no different than the process by which the ENTIRE BOOK of ACTS was fused and patched together. With ACTS, most of the material is independantly verified by the scriptures in the Books of John, Mark, Matthew and so on--and their histories.
With the Completeness and ORIGINAL entirety of MATTHEW, witnessed by St. Ignatius; their is no doubt to validity.
Macarius907 3 years ago
Macarius, I know very well that Mark is the first to have been written. But 16:9-20 was clearly written later than all the rest of the book. You say that it was written before and added later. Ok, you say that. There is no proof at all. Shall we continue? Of course not. If you want the last word on this page, take it. If you want to convince me about something that has no proof at all, I really have enough of this. I will not answer you anymore here. You have NO PROOFS of what you say. Point.
Xenios2 3 years ago
for something so beautiful all we get are these sordid comments. People, the chants and the music come from both the tradition and the experience of faith. Can't we just celebrate the beauty of that? Too many people died because of believing in God already. I just want to hear people hope back and sing back what God has given, love.
myyellowshirt 3 years ago
Hey, take it easy, I didn't kill anyone, I just told what I think. You will not accuse me of killing people because they were believing in God, I hope?
Xenios2 3 years ago
Orthodox Monks sing for the edification and magnification of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; the Holy Theotokos (Mother of God); and all the Saints. They are filled with the Holy Spirit--every piece of music has a specific, organic, and very much ALIVE and WELL place in the liturgical life of the Church; your mere 'musical appreciation' is irrelavent, perhaps disrespectful and at the least--ignorant.
Macarius907 3 years ago
Also KNOW that the Orthodox Church has NEVER sponsored, in any official and/or large-scale operation; military or guerilla or administrative violence against the people of the world (that would not be Christ-like, nor Saintly); The Orthodox Church fought in PART of the crusades to protect the Holy City (the seat of Christendom-Constanople, which was under constant attack/seige; and eventually fell; then True Christendom moved to Russia (the 3rd Rome; thus, the Tsars Greek/Slavonic for "Caesars")
Macarius907 3 years ago
You have groups out there like--"The SERBIAN ORTHODOX BROTHERS" etc. who are no better than the Irish Republican Army. The youth, raised in a Balkan war environment, must fight for the survival of their race, and naturally, over time develop a street-gang/terrorist mentality. THEY are lost lambs.
Macarius907 3 years ago
Before you start "spinning out of control" and "losing your Faith" over a verse; be a discerning a wise Christian and DO YOUR HOMEWORK. It is ALL there. The Old Testament that We Orthodox have is SAAS (Saint Athanius Academy Septuagent) which is the direct translation of the original SAAS Hebrew/ Greek scholars centuries ago. Post-Canon NEW TESTAMENT/ Pre-King James will really begin to triangulate your answers.
Macarius907 3 years ago
If you have 'concerns' over your version of the Holy Bible; guess what: GOOD! You have taken your first step towards true enlightenment and the True Faith; you were close before but had the incomplete picture. Get an ORTHODOX STUDY BIBLE (doesn't mean you are or have to be Orthodox; infact there is an introduction and many essays in there that are for the general Christian audience; it is YOUR inheritance;
Macarius907 3 years ago
The Valaam Choir and the Serbians are exquisite in their musical magnification of Christ, our Lord, the Savior of our souls. Xenios; Mariotime12; and SerbWarrior--Christ teaches us to "Love the least of these..." as all peoples are are part of HIM and what you think, say, and do to one, you do to HIM... Xenios--be at peace; you will find your answers.
Macarius907 3 years ago
Xenios2 I respect your beliefs (which are none at all) well ne wyas if you are interested in watching some good videos. Watch D'inesh D'Souza debate Daniel Dennette and also Christopher Hitchens. Also Richard Dawkins does not want to debate him because in a true debate where not only science but history and the whole nine yards is taken into account you come to the conclusion that not only does God exist but that by his very nature he deserves to be worshipped perfectly. ^_^ God Bless you Xenios
mariotime12 3 years ago
Thank you but there is no proof of what you say about God. The only proof is the fact that you want Him, but a smart person, after considering a fact, asks himself also about the causes of it. So try to ask yourself why you want God. Isn't it because you need to find a meaning in your life? Isn't the main characteristic of men to find a meaning even where there is no meaning? Now, this has made men so powerful, their wish to find a meaning. It's a natural predisposition of men. This is history.
Xenios2 3 years ago
That sounds so pretty but I am sorry history is on my side. If I were an atheist I would suicide, because no matter how much pleasure or this or that I have. Non-existence afterward accounts for nothing you wont even remember all your goods. So yeah life pretty much sucks for you. Sorry even the greatest geniuses like Newton and many other like Leibnitz could not even take the idea of God away, real atheism has started only recently. They were Deists and believed in God.
mariotime12 3 years ago
I feel sorry for you in your lonely little "world", where you define your morality and still try to insist that the atheist is a trustworthy citizen and is a moral person. Please go back to your homosexual loving partner because for you anything goes. It takes to be a gay person to be atheist. You need to be a flamer and like it prison to be in that state of mind that is just pitiful. trust me I know because 3 of my brothers are atheist and they are well educated but sry to say they suk at life.
mariotime12 3 years ago
Look there is no reason to offend and insult like that. I like women, ok? And I like to have sex with them... not just with one of them as a wife. You want to put me in prison for my view of the world? I don't hate anybody, try to forgive offenses, respect people that are different from me (though sometimes I get angry but I am sorry for that). Please accept my excuses if I offended you. I didn't want to. I am just saying what my mind and my heart suggest me about the truth of life.
Xenios2 3 years ago
Look no one got offended here. The best Atheism can arrive to is in the world, will be altruism. But I am sorry if in the most basic unit of society the family, yiou can see big differences in brother's. One is kind other is angry etc... Different type of emotions and temperements. How would you expect FOR all of society to appreciate life if it were not for Christianity. The concept of the love of life that is a modern concept in the sense of after Christ.
mariotime12 3 years ago
Look at Sparta they killed you when you were a baby and if you look at all ancient civilizations a human was just a number. If you look at it only a few counted. The Romans at one point were about 50% slaves and the slave could be used for anything, for sexual exploitation, labor. And they did do that so in ancient life, there was no such thing as the individual. You are right Christ did say tell this to no man until the son of man rise again from the dead. But what you fail to notice is this.
mariotime12 3 years ago
Notice how all other ancient religions spread through violence and that was the only way known to convert people. But Christianity started as a completely peaceful religion up until maybe early middle ages. The Apostles were not called Apostles until they performed miracles like Christ did. That is the only reason why it spread so quickly, it was preaching by example. Christ elevated the human to godliness he brought it to the highest heights. Well I need to email you personally.
mariotime12 3 years ago
It is kind of hard to have a good discussion when you can only type so many words. But I love debating, I have debated countless and countless amount of years with my brothers and other apostates from the faith. And I will tell you that all of the apostates of the faith is never because of an intellectual problem with the faith, only a few geniuses may claim this. B/c to say that you understand the science to to level where you can justifiably say why you are an atheist and understand it
mariotime12 3 years ago
Just dont close yourself up and you will do fine. Dont think you are the most astute man that has the answers to all the questions out there. Even Richard Dawkins says that scientist: "Have to approach many questions with humility...". Most people leave Christianity because they fell like God is some type of dictator who accuses you of thought crime. So when ppl librt. themslvs from Christnty they feel "free from the chains of trad. reli. Most of the time its b/c of the 6th command.
mariotime12 3 years ago
The first thing that you will go and do is have sex with anyone you like without regard. You will say what is wrong with that? And defend your position. Most of the time it has to do b/c of this. Atheist usually dont want to deal with the moral question of human sexuality and what consists of what a normal mind and person should do. So one of the two things you can change your religion like many have done to a more "liberal" view of Christ teaching but some ppl cant lie to themselves.
mariotime12 3 years ago
B/c they know the clear position that Christ said about what rightful sex is and what it is not. Atheist see this a hindrance to "human progress", prohibiting human freedom etc. All natural things have their laws and balance but with human beings it is not as easy to tell what is and what is not the rightful balance b/c in nature a clear visual effect can be seen. (you jump a mt. and gravity pulls you down and you die) But the mind has its laws too and what the law of Christ does is balance ALL.
mariotime12 3 years ago
The problem is that I don't mind about what Christ said or not said if He did not resurrect. The point is: did He resurrect or not? If He did, we still can hold discussion about some smaller points, liberal christianity versus conservative christianity, but it is a problem very smaller. My present problem is that I have serious doubts about His resurrection.
Xenios2 3 years ago
Look, I tried sexual continence for 9 years and I was very sad of myself because I could not do it. I made many confessions to the priest for that, at least one per week. I suffered a lot and I was full of feeling guilty. I was very bad. Now I don't think anymore about confession and communion and I am very better. I just don't try anymore to contrast nature. I accept it. And everything goes better.
Xenios2 3 years ago
Yes I will never sure. I still search for elements. If I find new elements, I may turn again to religion as I turned from religion to atheism one month ago. About this also you are very right.
Xenios2 3 years ago
You are right, it is not only an intellectual problem. If it was just a matter like to believing in the legend of Santa Klaus, no one has problems in believing it because he does not risk anything. It is when you are asked to sacrify you happiness that you want to be sure about proofs. I don't give my life for something I am not sure it is true. If it was just to give 100 euro, I probably would say, ok, it is true and I will not search anything more.
Xenios2 3 years ago
Miracles? Ah, no proof at all! Well if you want to email me personally I will be glad to continue the discussion. Thank you and sorry again.
Xenios2 3 years ago
You are right about this: I got many values from christianity, and I still hold many of them: love for truth, humbleness, love, altruism, forgiveness. And it is exactly because of these values that I now reject christianity: because it denies with one hand the same very values it proposes with the other hand. I just chose one of these two hands of christianity.
Xenios2 3 years ago
This discussion is very interesting, I'm sorry if I'm a little bit angry and sometimes I insult people here, it's because I'm atheist since a month only, before I was a Christian and I'm in the moment of the delusion. History is on your side. My delusion comes exactly from the fact that unfortunately I don't find any proof about the resurrection of Christ. I became atheist the last month after finding out that the first manuscripts of Mark ended at 16, 8. 16, 9-20 seems to have been added later.
Xenios2 3 years ago
And this is the elder of the four gospels. Do you know about Ceasar and Augustus? When Ceasar was assasinated, Augustus inherited from Ceasar, he had permission from the Senate to promulgate all the laws that Ceasar had written before to die. However, Augustus made also new laws of his own, and to make them effective he said that Ceasar had written them before to die. Scholars of history find out the trick from the fact that Agustus said: "Ceasar wrote these laws but he didn't say anybody".
Xenios2 3 years ago
Now, we have God who makes Himself man to save the world and to tell to the humans the Truth. He comes, he choses 12 men and He says many things to them 12 only. And He also says "Don't tell anybody untill my death and resurrection". What historians think about that? Just the same: Jesus didn't tell these things. These things were invented by the Apostoles later.
Xenios2 3 years ago
Not 'Invented,' the earliest known original, authentic Apostolic manuscripts (which were transcribed by specially chosen early-christian scribes... [some of which are very famous and have their own place in iconography..])
Macarius907 3 years ago
The unbroken historical, One Holy Apostolic [Orthodox] Catholic Church of Christ; the one and true, unadulterated, unchanged--inheratence of the 12 apostles, and their Saints; of the New Testament church, the 'Good News' the Gospel--testament of Christ and the epistles of his apostles... will fill in the gaps and restore the inherent and innate FAITH you possess; you a creature of the "natural law and light" and you know it. Find the TRUE FAITH.
Macarius907 3 years ago
I did possess faith.
By now I continue to read Mark 16, 9.
Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid.
((The most reliable early manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have Mark 16:9-20.))
Thank you for your nice words, I still pray God, if He exists, to illuminate me... but I am very very doubtful at this moment.
Xenios2 3 years ago
I have you covered Xenios: You merely need a more complete Holy Bible; academically driven--with the most authoritative and ancient features: "The Orthodox Study Bible" [revised, 2008] like hot off the press...
Contains MARK 16:9-20 plus extensive footnotes and disposition information about these verses. These are NOT the only verses that have been ommitted/ altered from the King James Version of the Holy Bible btw... we shall continue in the next post.
Macarius907 3 years ago
For example: 'the Lord's Prayer' (in the King James Version in most bibles) ommits the line at the end of the prayer which is makes the prayer sacred and holy: "...For yours is the Kindom and the Power and the glory forever. Amen."
Which is a cue and hearkening for "For thine is the Power and the Glory of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." used in many Orthodox prayers and ALL services.
Macarius907 3 years ago
As you have demonstrated: MARK 16:8 states;
"So they went out quickly[a] and fled from the tomb. For they trembled and were amazed. And they said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid.[1]
[a]16:8 NU-Text and M-Text omit 'quickly'
[1]'They said nothing to anyone' does not mean the women never said anything, but that they kept silent until Jesus appeared to them (vv. 9-11)
Macarius907 3 years ago
That was:
[1]'They said nothing to anyone' does not mean the women never said anything, but that they kept silent until Jesus appeared to them(v v. 9-11)
Xenios, you should NEVER lose faith over an issue like this; REJOICE--you have discovered the righteous and enlightening world of the ancient Christian APOCRAPHA (Books, Epistles, and Verses)
MARK 16:9-20 (apocraphal verses of the book of Mark)...
Macarius907 3 years ago
MARK 16:9-20
THE RISEN CHRIST APPEARS
(Mt 28:9, 10; Lk 24:13-43; Jn 20:11--21:25)
"(v9)Now when HE rose early on the first DAY of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cst seven demons.[2]
[2]16:9-20 Two early manuscripts do not contain these verses as part of Mark's Gospel, while nearly all other manuscrpts ever discovered have them. They are canonized scripture and are considered by the Church to be inspired, authoritative, and genuine.
Macarius907 3 years ago
(v10)She went and told those who had been with Him, as they mourned and wept.(v11)And when they heard tht He was alive and had not been seen by her, they did not believe. (v12)After that, He appeared in another form to two of them as they walked and went into the country.[3]
[3]16:12 'Another form;' Our Lord's resurrected body transcends not only physical space and time, but appearance as well. He was sometimes recognizeable to His disciples, while at other timesHe was not.
Macarius907 3 years ago
(v13)"And they went and told IT to the rest, but they did not believe them either.
THE GREAT COMMISSION
(Mt 28:16-20; Lk 24:44--49)
(v14)Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. (v15)And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.[4]
[4]Mt 28:19 This Great Commission...
Macarius907 3 years ago
[4]Mt 28:19 This Great Commission-Our Lord's final commandment given on earth-is to be lived outin the Church until he returns again. Making deciples cannot be done in the strength of man, but only in the power of God. The power of the Resurrection is not only for Jesus Himself, but is given to all believers for Christian life and mission.
Macarius907 3 years ago
(v16)"Then the eleven disciples wnet away into Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had appointe for them. (v17)When they saw Him, they worshipped Him; but some doubted. (v18)And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, 'All authority has been given to Me in Heaven and on earth.[5]
[5]'All authority has been given to me' Christ declares that the authoritytht was His by nature in His divinity is now also possessed by His glorified human nature. This human nature has now trampled his final enemy
Macarius907 3 years ago
[5]'All authority has been given to me' (continued) ...This human nature has now trampled his final enemy--DEATH (1Co 15:20-28)
"Christ is Risen from the dead, trampling down death by death; and upon the tombs restoring life." (Paschal [Easter] Troparion)
(v19)"Go therefore[a] and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,[6]
Macarius907 3 years ago
[a]28:19 M-Text omits 'therefore'
[6]28:19 'The Great Commission'
*It is noteworthy about this, of many apocraphal verses; that it includes the full use of Jesus quoting 'Father, Son, and Holy Spirit' which is the TRINITY and is commonly ommitted from Protestant versions of the bible.
Know also; that through intensive academic research--it has been revealed that a large body of Christ's quotes are unreliable as "genuine" (but these scholar's agenda are questionable) and the def. of genuine
Macarius907 3 years ago
Often, as with the BASE issue in Apostolic transmittion/ transcription/ and re-transcription of CHRIST's Testament involves a lot of memory, paraphrasing, and epic/ legendary storytelling "witnessing/ testifiying" of the miracle of the Messiah... the same issue with scribes dealing with the Apostolic scrolls... these testaments were never supposed to be legalistic transcripts; you don't win souls with Divine Committee meetings on earth... and Quarterly Journals on the PROCEEDINGS...
Macarius907 3 years ago
(v20)'teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always even to the end ot the age.' Amen.[7][a]
[a]28:20 NU-Text omits 'Amen'
*Note: Amen is outside of Christ's final commandment and quote--this is a subtle (and common) sign that the passage is being commented/ venerated in prayer by the scribe; in some unedited New Testament epistles, the official scribe gives an OFFICIAL sign off and well-wishing!
Macarius907 3 years ago
MARK 28:20
[7]28:20 Christ Himself is present in each believer and in the Church ALWAYS, both personally and in the Holy Spirit, for neither can be separated from the other. To the end of the age does not by any means imply that we will be separated from him at the end of the world. He is with us now, and forever, and unto ages of ages. Amen.
Peace be unto you, and to your spirit XENIOS.
Macarius907 3 years ago
And finally, to sanctify this work; and as an offering for XENIOS and all others: 'THE TRISAGION PRAYERS'
In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Amen.
Glory to You O Lord, Glory to You.
O heavenly king, O Comforter, the Spirit of truth the Treasury of good things and the Giver of life; Come and abide in us, cleanse us from every stain, and save our soul, O Good one.
Macarius907 3 years ago
Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal, have mercy on us;
Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal, have mercy on us;
Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal, have mercy on us.
Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever, and unto ages of ages. Amen.
Macarius907 3 years ago
Our Father, Who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread [spiritual food as well as sustenance] and forgive us our trespasses; as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from the evil-one.
Macarius907 3 years ago
For Thine is the Kingdom and the Power, and the Glory, of the Father, and of the Son, and the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto ages of ages. Amen.
Peace be unto you, and to your spirit(s).
Macarius
Macarius907 3 years ago
Macarius, thank you for your work, but you miss my point. Ok, we NOW have also Mark 16:9-20. But they were written later than the rest of the Gospel of Mark. Later, do you understand that? So, for me, the resurrection of Christ is not believable because the first testimonies about it appeared later! First Christians didn't speak about the resurrection of Christ! It was invented later! 1) EARLIER manuscripts don't have Mark 16:9-20. We have it now, but not EARLIER.
Xenios2 3 years ago
Thank you Macarius, but you missed my point. Ok I know that we have also Mark 16:9-20, NOW. But it was added LATER. EARLIER manuscripts don't have it! So, for me the resurrection of Christ is not believable, because it was not said by the first Christians. It appeared after. And this clearly shows that it was invented. Firs of all, earlier manuscripts don't have Mark 16:-20.
Xenios2 3 years ago
Second, the fact that the earlier manuscripts finish with the fact that the women didn't say anybody clearly shows that it was the first time that someone wrote about the resurrection of Christ. It was a new thing, and he had to justify why nobody had heard about it before. That's why he says: they didn't say to anybody. He means: because of the fear, this was kept secret until now, and that's why you hear about this for the first time now.
Xenios2 3 years ago
Also, the secret is of the women, to explain why the Apostles never said it before. Finally, third thing: Mark 16:9 says "He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cst seven demons". It is so evident that this text is not the same of Mark until 16:8. It even starts before the point where Mark 16:8 had arrived! It is clearly not written by the same person! It is the collage of two different texts, the authentic being the one that was written earlier!
Xenios2 3 years ago
I am sorry, but this is what my reason tells me at the moment. Even Mark 16:1-8 was written many decades after the facts. Mark 16:9-20 may be even fifty years after the facts. This is not a believable account! Also, at the beginning emphasis was put on the empty grave, or to the angel. Only after does Jesus resurrected appear. If Jesus had really appeared, even earlier accounts would have spoken about Jesus appeared and the empty grave would have been of no interest for them.
Xenios2 3 years ago
Waspidi! OK; MY point (the point); is that YOUR empty version--IS the "Later" manuscript! Do you get that now? An incomplete manuscript. Also understand that their were hundreds upon perhaps thousands of HAND-RECORDED manuscripts in existance; many were archived at the LIBRARY of ALEXANDRIA along with the MASTER-COPIES of Herodotus's Histories; Classical works; Classical Inventors; etc. The loss, really is incaluable; and mournful (I happen to be an Archivist--'Alexandria' makes me shudder)
Macarius907 3 years ago
That notwithstanding; the second greatest bastion of Christian manuscripts and histories and archives, was Constanople--capitol of Byzantium (Byzantine Empire) the heart of original and post-schism (orthodox) Christianity--which was eventually taken and sacked by the Muslim Turks. Constanople was always the 2nd target (to Jerusalem) during the crusades; much was saved; but much was lost then, also.
Macarius907 3 years ago
If the version that finishes at 16:8 is the later, then the earlier would be the complete version from 1 to 20. But this is impossible, because I already said you that 16:9-20 is clearly written by another author. If the author was the same, the fact that Mary Magdalene is the one from whom Jesus had freed the demons would have been said in Mark 16:1, when she was firstly introduced, and not in 16:9. The author of 16:9-20 was firstly introducing Mary Magdalene in versus 9!
Xenios2 3 years ago
OK, ok--back-up; first of all; you do know that the entire NEW TESTAMENT is replete with replicate verses (from book to book to epistle) depending on the perspective of the author and/or the goal and aim of the original manuscript [try to remember that originally each of these were hundreds, sometimes thousands of miles away; and then retranscribed; and FINALLY CANONIZED into a Holy Bible (bib-le [bib-ley] 'book') to minimize the "percieved paradoxes" you are experiancing.
Macarius907 3 years ago
The entire book of ACTS is a manuscript rehashing/ retelling the most important contributions/ events of the apostles in relation to the epic events of Christ--a synopsis if you will; and then the description of Pentecost, and the development of the Early Church (Orthodox Christian Church).
Macarius907 3 years ago
Ah, thank you again but there are too many contradictions between a version and the other.
Xenios2 3 years ago