"But as previous episodes have shown, the neo-conservatives have distorted and exaggerated the Soviet threat".
The previous episodes did no such thing.
They merely made a vague assumption, that the Soviet union would have collapsed on it's own. But that is not fact, merely an opinion.
We know for a fact (since some KGB files have been released for the public), that the Soviets did have agents across west, did sponsor terrorism on a global scale, and did conspire to destroy the US.
Many of the "hardcore" islamists associated with al Qaeda's "central group" are said to have sworn an oath of fealty to OBL. Does this not indicate they are part of an organization? The mafia never calls itself the mafia, does this mean it doesn't exist?
This is where I begin to disagree with this docu. Bin Laden did create an organized network, albeit loosely. The organization, whether its called al Qaeda or something else, is not a "myth".
Okay, one thing I'm not understanding here is the BBC video goes on to criticize Reagan & co whose alleged vision of the Soviet Union was of an irrational exaggerated fear of Soviet expansionism. But, didn't the Soviets invade Afghanistan in 1979?
@bumpy783 Okay, I'm super stoned right now and I can't be certain BUT I'm thinking this whole series borders on something that's not too different from a conspiracy theory.
@bumpy783 The Russians didn't simply invade Afghanistan, they were there in compliance with the puppet soviet regime which was already there. Their purpose was partly to quell growing anti government support, funded by america. It was a desperate kick from a dying superpower, not an example of an act performed by a far reaching and dangerous power america made it out to be. Essentially, as the documentary states, the threat of the soviet unions actions was greatly exaggerated for other purposes.
@doyoureallythinkso You still have events backwards here. The Soviets invaded and THEN ( and only then ) did starting with Carter, then with Reagan - the CIA/USA fund and support opposition groups to the Soviets.
The Soviets invaded not because of military weakness, but because of autocratic stupidity.
A county who spent 25% of it's GDP on the military, had one of the largest standing armies, nuclear weapons and a penchant for exporting it's version of communism to the world was a threat.
@bumpy783 Robert Gates, former director of the CIA wrote about about the CIA aiding the Muj. up to six months prior to the Soviet invasion in his book From the Shadows. This was also confirmed by Zbigniew Brzezinski with a French newsmag in the late 90s. So it would seem I didn't have it backwards. And I don't really care for any 'War is Peace' quotes, thanks. x
@doyoureallythinkso Furthermore, attempts at Détente by the Carter administration were resoundingly met by the invasion of Afghanistan by the old school leader of Breshnev.
Only with financial troubles of the Soviet Union and the new "neo-communist " leader of Gorbachev was the US in a position to negotiate out of strength.
I know it's quite common now to revise and look back on history, but as the Romans used to say: igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
This boldly cynical BBC documentary attempts to tell us this most incoherent concept, that somehow there is no good and no evil. That all is relative, all is made up, "A MYTH". RIDICULOUS! Whether ideas are misconscrewed purposefully or not does not remove the FACT that Communists have killed more and Rad. Islam affected more people than any other ideology in humankind. What is their purpose? Should nothing have been done in either case, because its all a myth...JUST FALSE CHARITY and LUNACY!
@MicaelTru Their purpose is to serve as approved enemies, deflecting criticism away from the government and providing a pretext for the expansion of its power. You left out a few ideologies: racism (which we're told no longer exists) fascism, capitalism. But those being the approved ideologies, they are invisible to people like you. Just keep hating the brown people and ignoring the men behind the curtain.
@dalpaugh Wow seem the lone racist here is you. What does skin color have to do with this? How can u have the audacity to presume,based on my comments, I MUST be White. YOU are the racist, I'm color blind and care less. We are all humans, but its the subliminal relativism that is our enemy... the pointless rhetoric in this documentary is insane as it ignores the facts...that communist and radical Islam are the true enemies of humanity...whether there are political games exist or not...FACTS!
An organization that doesn't exist, hijacked 4 planes, detonated the WTC towers and ordered air defence stand down? RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT!
BBC serously expects me to swallow the idea that some doucebag called Strauss and his idea which the neos took on board to bond soceity together is now somehow responsible the inside job that really was 911.
please. we're not fucking kids.
give normal ppl some respect. "good vs evil" ?? what r u 8 yrs old ?
JUST ACCEPT the fact that 9/11 was done by BUSH and his Freemasonic buddies.
If anyone believes that cave diagram and believe you could bomb a mountain then Im sure you also believe that an aluminum plane can go through a steel frame building and bring it down at free fall speed. Then your an Idiot!!!
@scientific1982 YEAH IM A CHRISTIAN, THAT IS A FOLLOWER OF JESUS CHRIST, IF YOU FOLLOW SOMETHING ELSE, GO FOR IT. I GOT MORE FROM THIS AND OTHER LESSONS IVE LEARNED THAN MOST PEOPLE EVER GET.
@scientific1982 FOR SOME UNKNOWN REASON YOU SAID I DIDNT GET MUCH OUT OF THE DOC. I SIMPLY SAID THAT I GOT MORE THAN YOU THINK I DID. HOWS EVERYTHING AT HOME? ARE YOU DOING ALRIGHT?
cold war. muslim threat. asteroids. alien threat. world imprisoned forever in an insane phony anti human ideology. slave planet. global elite free to pursue their sick filth, around the solar system and beyond...
oh my god... not a word of it being an inside job... not a word of it being a demolition. not a word about building 7. this whole program is co intel pro.
shananigans! shananigans!! ball lickers. expose the globalist military technocracy...
audit the fed. end the terror and tyranny upon humanity.
False flag operations... thats all they were.. blamed on the muslims.. so that they had a open gate into any muslim country and take wotever they like. The attacks in the previous video (supposedly dne by "islamists") killing innocent muslims just because they didnt agree with Zarkawee, is a lie.. they were also done by CIA and FBI operatives including israeli mossad agents.. False flag opps, so that people wudnt support the mujahideen.
You are still not marrying the two worlds!! Yes, there is Zen, yes there is the infinite, and there is a personal path not defined by such things. But in the world of limit, you must define your objective. I will not go on about this cos I think it'll annoy you!!! But forget the other Joseph Campbell stuff and check out THWAThousand Faces.
I imagine you won't read this until tomorrow - and so I say, good night as well. If I have sounded snippy its not in any way personal. I really do think that people, on a local level, generally intend to do Good. With this in mind I feel what George Carlin would call a sympathetic contempt. I know no one really means harm. And yet they support people and systems that harm themselves and others. It's horrible and hilarious at the same time.
I was told read the same book seven or eight years ago by a good friend of mine. I will still, of course, finish Primitive Mythology since it'll give me an idea of Campbell's over-all thought patterns - though since I've had a few people tell me about the Hero With a Thousand Faces I feel as though perhaps it would behoove me to, at the very least, check it out.
Schopenhauer said a lot about two worlds too. Nietzsche liked him. I like Nietzsche. Maybe. Just maybe - there's a link here.
The Hero with a Thousand faces is my favourite book in the world.
This over-paranoid conspiracy stuff is much to do with people trying to find a way to mythologically become the hero of their own world. It's also the fact that we have lost our myths as people/society and we often therefore create the themes, often read through distorted or unevolved minds.
@dimitraeus202 People get bored and needs things to do. I, for one learned a lot from my research into conspiracy theories. And indirectly, I daresay, I'm a better person. It lead me to Taoism and Buddhism.
Now, when people do bad things I don't get upset. If I can do something I do. If I can't I don't. These conspiracies do exist, but I'm not able to do anything other than spectate. Which makes me feel powerless. So I focus on my friends & family instead.
Wow exactly I started out with conspiracy's too, because a world had unfolded before me and suddenly the world didn't seem so simple anymore. I started looking for the truth of reality, and tried atheism, islamism, baha'ism, conspiracy, christianity, all sorts of things, and finally came to bhuddism, but not buddhist philosophy's but buddhist practice, more like zen.
People who stay in any topic delude themselves, one must go one and find truth within.
What you're talking about is being on your spiritual path and not defined by limit. That is a beautiful journey. Ultimately, as I said earlier, the true test is if you can marry that with the Real. Even though we may have dimensional aspects to our souls and to our consciousness, as mankind, reality is our home. It is the shell we exist in. Yes, be that force, but marry it with an OBJECTIVE. You'll have to know what you're aiming for if you are to achieve it. Painful as it is!!!
I would, in turn, recommend that you read Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenence followed by his second book (infinitly, the better of the two) Lila.
Pirsig speaks of the intellectual toolsets we use to interpret reality. Pirsig's problem is with subject/object metaphysics. His solution is a metaphysics based on "Good." I agree.
The application is another thing altogether. We don't understand the problem yet. Forget the solution.
It's funny. :) I don't think that you realise that you keep referring to the 'two worlds' of the spiritual hero, without knowing it. I believe we have had this discussion for a reason. Have you read the book 'The Hero with A Thousand Faces'?
I'm in the process of reading Masks of God - Primitive Mythology (Volume 1 of 4). I just finished The Power of Myth.
To be honest I find his style kind of dry in that post-victorian way, but it's still amusing. While his idiom is dated his ideas are powerful. His analysis of people's concepts of God have made many religious texts much more accessible to me. I'm pleased about it. I don't know enough of Campbells' thoughts to comment really, though. I kind of want to read more. He's interesting
I understand why you believe that. The only thing with which I disagree is the angle at which you're looking.
You feel compelled to do a particular action or feel compelled to not do a particular action. And so you do or do not do that action based on the idea of reward / punishment. However, the will to do or not do lies within YOU. Not the authority attempting to compel you.
You are in control of your life. No one else. Remember that God gave you freewill. It is yours to use or not use.
Again, I agree with being 'outside of the accepted' and it is completely in agreement with einstein's famous phrase that you 'cannot solve a problem with the same level of consciousness that created it.
However
Einstein was a scientist and only needed to shed his brilliance on other scientists. Affecting society I believe is different, because ultimately an election WILL have to be won. There simply isn't a party right now that represents these concerns. If there were, ......
The people who fund what we call the parties will not allow such a thing. This is not a solution that will come about with electing new party members. This is a solution that can only happen when people realize that the parties are not the answer. You must know how corruption works from top down as well as from bottom up.
Belief in parties made us complicit. Belief in another party will be a different complicity. This isn't passive or elsewhere. YOU being active. That's the solution.
When I say 'party' I am not tainting it with concepts of the usual political ones we are used to.
Socrates saw this coming and hated the 'sophists', which we now call 'politicians'. His intellect was dangerous enough that they wanted rid of him. I just don't see the endgame of what you're proposing. What do you see happening in your ideal situation?
For personal reasons I disagree with the view of sophists as politicians. Socrates was said to be the greatest sophist of all. He was no politician by any stretch.
If anything I think the sophists are a lost treasure. For example, we only have pieces of Epicurus. I'm more in line with Pirsig's thoughts on the sophists.
Another way of thinking about the sophists is that they were concerned with education and doing good; they were condemned. This reminds me of Jesus; also condemned.
Hey. I think you misunderstand. Socrates absolutely hated the Sophists. He was a philosopher, and basically the philosophers loves truth, which I think you are refering to, whereas the Sophists used truth and knowledge for their own benefit, ie to gain political 'success'. Sophistry is basically the art of spin and of winning debate. The philosophers hated the Sophists.
I'm not altogether sure I'm misunderstanding. Etymologically speaking philosopher is philos - love. And sophia - knowledge. Sophist would mean, techinally, one who is wise or learned.
I know that Socrates was reputed for hating the sophists. But when you think about it he was a sophist as well. He was wise and he loved knowledge. Sophist / philosopher / teacher / seeker of knowledge. Remember that all we know about the sophists is what Socrates said in contempt.
This is Very Much something that Pirsig speaks of in his book Lila. It actually agree that truth is a great thing. I happen to believe that truth is a way of understanding things so that you can make Good Decisions. I make this distinction because I don't hold truth to be the best thing ever. I hold Good to be the best thing. Truth is a way of getting to Good. And so in this sense truth is a wonderful thing. Truth is a tool to be used. But it is only a tool.
The end game of what I proposing is not really clear to me either. I'm still at a point of gathering information and understanding. Like I say; the only thing I see is that what is happening is not working. I think a bottom-up approach is the best way.
WE are the ones who allow ourselves to be used as serfs and pawns in their games. We need to understand that the power lies within us as opposed to them. This is how to break the cycle.
What about the next? That IS an excellent question.
I would also like to state that, for me, the best type of beginning to a real solution is a re-examination of how we guage things. I think we need a new measuring stick. I think the measuring stick should be "Good."
Jesus had a lot to say about it. So did Buddha. Most philosophers have touched on the concept. But I think it's the only way we really make decisions. We think everything is based on rules or truth. But really we choose what is better - or Good.
I agree, but the universe itself, including reality, relies on a balance. We cannot be totally without control. Systems, if they are not imprisonments, can actually aid us & the fact is, we need them to buy milk at the supermarket!! It will be very hard for you to get momentum going if you are working outside of the system. The inconvenient truth is that you must both be enlightened BUT ALSO BE ON THE WAVELENGTH OF THE PEOPLE in order to be what Joseph Campbell called 'the master of both worlds'
You are the control. You allow or deny someone's control over you. To be clear I don't think all governments are bad, but I do think this one has gone awry. We have the power to say no and enact a new system of government - legally under the constitution.
As for being "on the same wavelength" this reminds me of people who added to human thought inside or outside of normal thought. All of the best were from outside of the accepted.
Everything you know wasn't accepted when it was introduced.
As per the "magic" it seems clear that you didn't quite catch the subtlety of my strawman technique. This is where I have come clean and clearly state that I was making fun of the official line. Khalid's testimony was procured via torture. He may as well have confessed to killing Jimmy Hoffa, JFK and Laura Palmer.
Khalid is what is commonly referred to as a scapegoat. Or a "patsy." Now that we can point to who did it all we can rest safe, watch TV and buy more electronics made in China.
Most people would be upset. It would call into question a lot of party allegiances. Which calls into mind mental constructions of reality. People would certainly be upset. We're told to think that all lefts are bad and all rights are good. Or that all rights are bad and all lefts are good. But fundamentally this is nonsense when you examine the policies enacted by either party. It's a control grid and an investigation would expose the control grid.
Since you are aware of 'constructions of reality', then you will know that reality itself, even in its truest form, is actually a construct. Yes, you want to know. But let's appraise rality and the state of consciousness in the human race for how it really is right now... In your heart, you must know that people are neither committed, nor READY for this kind of thing. It would be another whitewash. Put your energies towards something that can really happen-support new parties etc.
Hey, Aristotle, you're two sentences away from over reaching and turning your ideations into an academic pile of dust.
As for supporting new parties - no thanks. Parties got us into this mess and you think another one is going to Do The Trick?
This is folly. Your metaphysics is inapplicable to the mess. It's what created the mess. Using the same intellectual tools will yield the same results. You must expand your tool-set.
Not at all, bobby. ;) I actually really LIKE what you're saying. You seem to be someone that has gone beyond the perceived reality. I also went beyond, and believed for a while we could be 'free' of this control. But what I have come to realise is it is very easy to have such a mindset, but much harder to 'return' to reality to contribute and add some of the gift you have back to society. That is the hardest journey, and I agree that a higher level of being than what created the mess is needed.
I will freely admit that I'm reading into what you're saying and am probably attributing ideas that you aren't stating. That said;
Coming back? No thanks. I am currently working as hard as possible to get thoughts out. Get ideas going. It is hard work. It starts locally. With friends. If they don't get it that sucks. I find people who are thinking.
There are options. We don't have to live in this system. It's all in our heads. We are the change. Not politicians. People need to know that.
"the state of consciousness in the human race for how it really is right now"
I re-read that sentence and it reminds me of Nietzsche's posthumous birth. What I mean is that you are correct that in general people aren't ready to put their swords down. These concepts won't be recognized by many people and, like Nietzsche's best ideas, if anyone were to give real thought to such things on a larger scale it would be well after I am dead.
But that doesn't stop me from Getting The Word Out.
It's very interesting. A lot of scripture actually talks about the kind of journey you're on and the problems associated with it. Greek myth too- the story of Cassandra, destined always to prophesy the truth, and never to be believed, comes to mind.
At some point, if you're going to have the effect you want, you're going to have to marry the Ideal, with the Real. Ie THE DREAM, with reality. That is the challenge. How much of this dream can you filter into the mundane world of reality...
Frankly, I'm looking at my friends - most of whom haven't enough to eat, are homeless or a paycheck away from homelessness.
This is not an abstract hypothetical I'm examing. It's myself and everyone I know. The sysems that are in place are creating desperation, poverty and anguish. We are allowing it. Many turn to sex and drugs to kill the pain. I don't care about Band-Aids and gauze.
I like the way you used the word 'band-aids'. I often use that exact phrase myself. The analogy I think that works best is that the ROOTS of this tree are rotten, and yet everyone (including politicians) simply see the branches, and then tape them off when they look bad. The truth is, we need a tree with strong roots. Of course, the politicians will not do this, because tackling the real cause effectively means the end of their way of being.
I would like to stress, right away, that I do not think that Feding For Yourself is the only option. I believe very much in helping others and I believe very much in the goodness of people. I think there's a great place for cooperation.
However, the way things are run now we are abusing and killing each other for a few bucks. This, surely, is not what God would want.
I don't know what to do just yet. But do I know that what I see is not working
Since we do not know who did 9/11 much less have him in custody we can plainly and soberly conclude that the person or group might do another 9/11.
Let me stress this: we haven't been told who did 9/11. The 9/11 Commission did not say they were even interested in who did it. We don't know who the murderer is and we're not looking for that murderer.
That person or group is still on the loose and since they did it once I don't see why they won't again. This is why a criminal investigation.
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was the planner of the attacks. It was called 'the planes operation' and was originally intended to hijack up to 12 planes and blow them up in mid-air. The plan morphed to using planes as missiles. Bin Laden was not involved in the planning- he was more of a benefactor icon for islamic jihad. 19 hijackers DID pull off the event, the real question is whether they were aided in pulling it off by assets within the intelligence community. We have been told who 'did' it.....
My previous comment ought to be followed up by this:
If there was a serial murderer on the loose it is the reponsibility of the people and the authorities to be sure that murderer does not murder again. Osama was said to be the murderer,but without evidence to link him. So we do not know who the murderer is. No one was prosecuted for being the mastermind or organizer of 9/11. This means that, by any criteria, we are no closer to "getting the murderer" than we were on 9/12/01.
Again, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was prosecuted for being the mastermind- and he was. They just have an interest in keeping his profile lower so they can use the 'Bin Laden bogeyman' myth in order to follow a grander plan. This is all easily accessed by looking into the case- just do a check for Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
Khalid had the access to airport security, NORAD, FBI, CIA, NSA, the Pentagon, the Whitehouse, etc and it was all him. Khalid was also able to disobey the laws of physics three times in a row on the same day with some kind of Muslim Magic that we don't even know about.
That's so tidy. So neat. It was all Khalid. He used magic to make 9/11 happen. And now we don't need to look into who funded Khalid because it doesn't matter - he's magic.
What's the magic? The plan was hatched. (I also have concerns like you that there was intel on the inside that eased the operation), but technically Khalid Mohammed didn't need to have all those areas aligned. I agree with you it's dodgy, esp Moussaui being arrested before the attacks but no other checks being done, but what is this 'magic' you talk about? Please explain very precisely and not with general answers. Do you have a theory?
Technically Khalid DID have all of those agencies aligned.
NORAD failed to act. As did, FBI, CIA, the Whitehouse, NSA etc. Had they been operating - even one of those agencies - 9/11 would have been bungled. You underestimate the value of the redundancies built into our "pre-9/11" system.
All of those agencies failed. The only rational conclusion is that either A.) literally every one of the thousands of people in those agencies are idiots or B.) Khalid is God.
For the sake of saying so I'll go ahead and say what I think about 9/11:
We know that NORAD, the Pentagon, multiple airports, FBI, CIA, NSA and many other important entities were not operating coherently to the very type of situation for which they were designed. That, itself, is enough for me to wonder. That there was an active cover up (recycling the steel, Zelikow, NIST's ridiculous WTC 1, 2 and 7 reports) is enough for me to think a criminal activity happened.
I HATE TONY BLAIR AND ALISDAIR CAMPBELL. THEY BOTH WERE COMPLICIT IN THE "SEXED UP" DOCUMENTS WHICH FALSELY CLAIMED THAT IRAQ COULD NUKE U.K. IN 45 MINUTES. LYING SODS. I hope they have trouble sleeping at night because they have the death of lots of brown peeps on their souls.
I also cannot believe that both twin towers fell so fast, so freely. It does not fit with my understanding of basic physics. building 7 falling down was also silly.
Whilst I look very very heavily into 9/11 and have often considered that there may have been intel on the inside to 'smooth out' the attack, I don't think there's much doubt about the fact that arabic terrorists took over the plane with knives (they were also trained in hand to hand combat). We have the phone calls from the planes. That seems pretty irrefutable. What is your theory? If you don't think terrorists took over the planes, what theory are you purporting?? Please hit 'reply' ;)
I'm sure straightafter the event of 911, the BBC discovered that some of the named terrorists on board the planes were still alive.....tell me how that can be possible? Tehnologically speaking, it has only been within the last 2 years that telephony on borad planes were made possible.....the system did not exist prior or on 911....how were those phone calls made?
Where is this evidence that the hijackers were found alive?? This just isn't true- I know a lot of conspiracy sites say that, well then let's have them on tape!!! There's just no evidence at all for that and you need evidence for a theory. As for the calls, I'm pretty sure mobile phones often do work, but I think one main call was made by the flight phone by an asian woman. In any case, what is your theory? These were secret CIA agents pretending to call? You must put forward a cogent theory.
It took the BBC only days to find out that the headline "Hijack 'suspects' alive and well" was complete bullshit. The BBC journalists were interviewed : NOONE spoke with the hijackers, they just copied an arabic article, which was copied from another arabic article about the suicide video of one of the hijackers.
Oh dear!!! Poor Ghandproductions. You got taken in by Alex Jones. This has been PROPERLY disproven (and even retracted by one of Alex Jones close friends called Keith Garrett, who went to the far east to prove they were alive and tape them and came back with nothing as they were already dead. Its so sad that you get so easily taken in by this stuff. Here's the SUICIDE video of the hijacker they quote as alive: Copy and paste into youtube serach
@psynema Sorry mate, I'm far more informed than you.
Even a friend of Alex Jones went out to the far east to find these guys and videotape them. He came back and admitted they were dead. I believe his surname was GARRETT. But does Alex Jones talk about that? No. It's you that are not informed and playing out your worries about the world into a fake belief system. Copy and paste this name into your youtube search engine
ABDULAZIZ AL-OMARI
That's the hijacker Alex Jones etc quoted as alive.
They found a guy WITH THE SAME NAME!!!!! It was NOT the hijacker. They later admitted the mistake. Imagine if the hijackers were english and one was called JAMES SMITH. An arabic news station might have gone to a JAMES SMITH's home and mistaken them for being an ALIVE HIJACKER. James smith would prob reply 'Icannot believe you think I am a hijcker' in surprise, JUST AS THE MISTAKENLY INTERVIEWED GUY DID TO THE BBC. You have emotional attachment to this issue. That's the prob.
They found a guy WITH THE SAME NAME!!!!! It was NOT the hijacker. They later admitted the mistake. Imagine if the hijackers were english and one was called JAMES SMITH. An arabic news station might have gone to a JAMES SMITH's home and mistaken them for being an ALIVE HIJACKER. James Smith would prob reply 'Icannot believe you think I am a hijcker' in surprise, JUST AS THE MISTAKENLY INTERVIEWED GUY DID TO THE BBC. You have emotional attachment to this issue. That's the prob.
Truth be told - I have no idea. The 9/11 Commission specifically stated that they wouldn't look into who funded 9/11. George W. Bush presented no evidence linking Osama to 9/11. The FBI - as of this moment - does not ask for Osama in connection to 9/11 or the 93' bombing.
The official line is that there is no official line. If they're saying they don't know then how can I know? They had millions of dollars and all I have is my computer. I think a criminal investigation is the only way.
@bobbygnosis Could you please explain your alternative theory? Bonus points if you can talk about something other than non-existent "planted explosives", the ridiculous notion of an "NWO", or the downright stupid idea that the government could plan and execute a conspiracy to kill thousands of its own people without a single information leak. Maybe your own world finds itself firmly planted in the grounds of fantasy?
That was insulting how Rumsfeld had the nerve to go on television and present this nonsense about these hi-tech mountains and caves. What a piece of turn.
Bush was a puppet. However, even as a puppet, he still knew enough to be amused. I agree. I am also disturbed by Bush's overall demeanor between the years of 1999 and 2008. The horrifying thing is that the same policies are being followed by Obama.
It's too bad. We're damned if we do and we're damned if we don't. No matter the voting decision the same policies are enacted. Blue and Red are both doing the same things. It is truly upsetting to me.
"But as previous episodes have shown, the neo-conservatives have distorted and exaggerated the Soviet threat".
The previous episodes did no such thing.
They merely made a vague assumption, that the Soviet union would have collapsed on it's own. But that is not fact, merely an opinion.
We know for a fact (since some KGB files have been released for the public), that the Soviets did have agents across west, did sponsor terrorism on a global scale, and did conspire to destroy the US.
elbazart 2 days ago
loool@ the Super Caves...
SudanDawah 3 months ago 2
Crap, I have a picture of a trash can on my FB profile! I'm gonna get rid of it ASAP
PatriotGoUSA 5 months ago
Many of the "hardcore" islamists associated with al Qaeda's "central group" are said to have sworn an oath of fealty to OBL. Does this not indicate they are part of an organization? The mafia never calls itself the mafia, does this mean it doesn't exist?
Looter246 7 months ago
This is where I begin to disagree with this docu. Bin Laden did create an organized network, albeit loosely. The organization, whether its called al Qaeda or something else, is not a "myth".
Looter246 7 months ago
Okay, one thing I'm not understanding here is the BBC video goes on to criticize Reagan & co whose alleged vision of the Soviet Union was of an irrational exaggerated fear of Soviet expansionism. But, didn't the Soviets invade Afghanistan in 1979?
bumpy783 9 months ago
@bumpy783 Okay, I'm super stoned right now and I can't be certain BUT I'm thinking this whole series borders on something that's not too different from a conspiracy theory.
Baz0kable 9 months ago
@bumpy783 The Russians didn't simply invade Afghanistan, they were there in compliance with the puppet soviet regime which was already there. Their purpose was partly to quell growing anti government support, funded by america. It was a desperate kick from a dying superpower, not an example of an act performed by a far reaching and dangerous power america made it out to be. Essentially, as the documentary states, the threat of the soviet unions actions was greatly exaggerated for other purposes.
doyoureallythinkso 8 months ago
@doyoureallythinkso You still have events backwards here. The Soviets invaded and THEN ( and only then ) did starting with Carter, then with Reagan - the CIA/USA fund and support opposition groups to the Soviets.
The Soviets invaded not because of military weakness, but because of autocratic stupidity.
A county who spent 25% of it's GDP on the military, had one of the largest standing armies, nuclear weapons and a penchant for exporting it's version of communism to the world was a threat.
bumpy783 8 months ago
@bumpy783 Robert Gates, former director of the CIA wrote about about the CIA aiding the Muj. up to six months prior to the Soviet invasion in his book From the Shadows. This was also confirmed by Zbigniew Brzezinski with a French newsmag in the late 90s. So it would seem I didn't have it backwards. And I don't really care for any 'War is Peace' quotes, thanks. x
doyoureallythinkso 8 months ago
@doyoureallythinkso Furthermore, attempts at Détente by the Carter administration were resoundingly met by the invasion of Afghanistan by the old school leader of Breshnev.
Only with financial troubles of the Soviet Union and the new "neo-communist " leader of Gorbachev was the US in a position to negotiate out of strength.
I know it's quite common now to revise and look back on history, but as the Romans used to say: igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
bumpy783 8 months ago
This boldly cynical BBC documentary attempts to tell us this most incoherent concept, that somehow there is no good and no evil. That all is relative, all is made up, "A MYTH". RIDICULOUS! Whether ideas are misconscrewed purposefully or not does not remove the FACT that Communists have killed more and Rad. Islam affected more people than any other ideology in humankind. What is their purpose? Should nothing have been done in either case, because its all a myth...JUST FALSE CHARITY and LUNACY!
MicaelTru 9 months ago
@MicaelTru Their purpose is to serve as approved enemies, deflecting criticism away from the government and providing a pretext for the expansion of its power. You left out a few ideologies: racism (which we're told no longer exists) fascism, capitalism. But those being the approved ideologies, they are invisible to people like you. Just keep hating the brown people and ignoring the men behind the curtain.
dalpaugh 9 months ago
@dalpaugh Wow seem the lone racist here is you. What does skin color have to do with this? How can u have the audacity to presume,based on my comments, I MUST be White. YOU are the racist, I'm color blind and care less. We are all humans, but its the subliminal relativism that is our enemy... the pointless rhetoric in this documentary is insane as it ignores the facts...that communist and radical Islam are the true enemies of humanity...whether there are political games exist or not...FACTS!
MicaelTru 5 months ago
An organization that doesn't exist, hijacked 4 planes, detonated the WTC towers and ordered air defence stand down? RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT!
Aurinkohirvi 9 months ago
how childish!
BBC serously expects me to swallow the idea that some doucebag called Strauss and his idea which the neos took on board to bond soceity together is now somehow responsible the inside job that really was 911.
please. we're not fucking kids.
give normal ppl some respect. "good vs evil" ?? what r u 8 yrs old ?
JUST ACCEPT the fact that 9/11 was done by BUSH and his Freemasonic buddies.
nafism6969 11 months ago
@nafism6969 Em the BBC dont give a fuck about you. Break out the tinfoil hats.
scientific1982 10 months ago
u expect me to belive that the WHOLE reason for invading iraq and afghanistan is the notion of "good vs evil" by the american Neos?
LOL.
this is another deceit by BBC to hide the Illuminatti, the Freemasonic NWO devil cult that is the govt behind the UK and US and who knows who else.
nice try BBC.
nafism6969 11 months ago
If anyone believes that cave diagram and believe you could bomb a mountain then Im sure you also believe that an aluminum plane can go through a steel frame building and bring it down at free fall speed. Then your an Idiot!!!
caddy1010 11 months ago
SOCIAOPATHS LIKE RUMSFELD ARE EVERYWHERE. THE DEVIL CONTROLS THE WORLD. BUT ONE DAY, THE GOOD LORD WILL BRING THEM LOW.
1IIIIIIIIII1 11 months ago
@1IIIIIIIIII1 "The good lord will bring them low". Thats what you got from this series. Wow. We really are in big fuckin trouble.
scientific1982 10 months ago
@scientific1982 YEAH IM A CHRISTIAN, THAT IS A FOLLOWER OF JESUS CHRIST, IF YOU FOLLOW SOMETHING ELSE, GO FOR IT. I GOT MORE FROM THIS AND OTHER LESSONS IVE LEARNED THAN MOST PEOPLE EVER GET.
1IIIIIIIIII1 10 months ago
@1IIIIIIIIII1 How do you know you get more than most other people and how did you quantify that.
scientific1982 10 months ago
@scientific1982 FOR SOME UNKNOWN REASON YOU SAID I DIDNT GET MUCH OUT OF THE DOC. I SIMPLY SAID THAT I GOT MORE THAN YOU THINK I DID. HOWS EVERYTHING AT HOME? ARE YOU DOING ALRIGHT?
1IIIIIIIIII1 10 months ago
@1IIIIIIIIII1 Oh right. My apologies. Sorry.
scientific1982 10 months ago
@1IIIIIIIIII1 your kinda weird?
JonnyBefull 9 months ago
@JonnyBefull YOURE KINDA ATHIEST?
1IIIIIIIIII1 9 months ago
@1IIIIIIIIII1 I didn't realize that atheist was a offensive word?
JonnyBefull 9 months ago
@JonnyBefull I DIDNT REALIZE THAT BELIEVING IN THE HOLY BIBLE WAS WEIRD.
1IIIIIIIIII1 9 months ago
@JonnyBefull what makes you think that?
JonnyBefull 9 months ago
if the exist is so goddam secret how do you (know) its there
whhyyyyyyyyyy 11 months ago
what a total bunch of c***s.
cold war. muslim threat. asteroids. alien threat. world imprisoned forever in an insane phony anti human ideology. slave planet. global elite free to pursue their sick filth, around the solar system and beyond...
remember - ball lickers.
thepofmeister 1 year ago
oh my god... not a word of it being an inside job... not a word of it being a demolition. not a word about building 7. this whole program is co intel pro.
shananigans! shananigans!! ball lickers. expose the globalist military technocracy...
audit the fed. end the terror and tyranny upon humanity.
thepofmeister 1 year ago
7:05 "the fighters in this video had been hired for the day and told to bring their own weapons" lol
illosinob 1 year ago
h t tp:// 911myths.com /index.php/Abdulaziz_al-Omari_still_alive%3F
thescootmann 1 year ago
Hitlers clones rule the world now. Unfortunately, most of these Hitler replicas are decendants of the victims of the hitler of the second world War.
estorpai 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I believe that Islam is designed to do this to non believers. Muslims want world domination. Fact
theleocode 1 year ago
"This is a war against networks and groups."
LOL
PrettyBrg 1 year ago
They have their boogyman..
Xabesroth 1 year ago
False flag operations... thats all they were.. blamed on the muslims.. so that they had a open gate into any muslim country and take wotever they like. The attacks in the previous video (supposedly dne by "islamists") killing innocent muslims just because they didnt agree with Zarkawee, is a lie.. they were also done by CIA and FBI operatives including israeli mossad agents.. False flag opps, so that people wudnt support the mujahideen.
DiLxThief 1 year ago
Snipe hunt, with the US taxpayer holding the bag and blowing the whistle.
MajorBuckSnort 1 year ago
You are still not marrying the two worlds!! Yes, there is Zen, yes there is the infinite, and there is a personal path not defined by such things. But in the world of limit, you must define your objective. I will not go on about this cos I think it'll annoy you!!! But forget the other Joseph Campbell stuff and check out THWAThousand Faces.
dimitraeus202 2 years ago
I sounded a bit bossy there! But it's ^am here in the uk, so I gotta go to bed... Peace. Good chatting with ya.
dimitraeus202 2 years ago
I imagine you won't read this until tomorrow - and so I say, good night as well. If I have sounded snippy its not in any way personal. I really do think that people, on a local level, generally intend to do Good. With this in mind I feel what George Carlin would call a sympathetic contempt. I know no one really means harm. And yet they support people and systems that harm themselves and others. It's horrible and hilarious at the same time.
The world we live in is fucking strange.
bobbygnosis 2 years ago
I was told read the same book seven or eight years ago by a good friend of mine. I will still, of course, finish Primitive Mythology since it'll give me an idea of Campbell's over-all thought patterns - though since I've had a few people tell me about the Hero With a Thousand Faces I feel as though perhaps it would behoove me to, at the very least, check it out.
Schopenhauer said a lot about two worlds too. Nietzsche liked him. I like Nietzsche. Maybe. Just maybe - there's a link here.
bobbygnosis 2 years ago
@bobbygnosis
The Hero with a Thousand faces is my favourite book in the world.
This over-paranoid conspiracy stuff is much to do with people trying to find a way to mythologically become the hero of their own world. It's also the fact that we have lost our myths as people/society and we often therefore create the themes, often read through distorted or unevolved minds.
dimitraeus202 1 year ago
@dimitraeus202 People get bored and needs things to do. I, for one learned a lot from my research into conspiracy theories. And indirectly, I daresay, I'm a better person. It lead me to Taoism and Buddhism.
Now, when people do bad things I don't get upset. If I can do something I do. If I can't I don't. These conspiracies do exist, but I'm not able to do anything other than spectate. Which makes me feel powerless. So I focus on my friends & family instead.
Peace, love and understanding.
bobbygnosis 1 year ago
@bobbygnosis
Wow exactly I started out with conspiracy's too, because a world had unfolded before me and suddenly the world didn't seem so simple anymore. I started looking for the truth of reality, and tried atheism, islamism, baha'ism, conspiracy, christianity, all sorts of things, and finally came to bhuddism, but not buddhist philosophy's but buddhist practice, more like zen.
People who stay in any topic delude themselves, one must go one and find truth within.
colloredbrothers 1 year ago
What you're talking about is being on your spiritual path and not defined by limit. That is a beautiful journey. Ultimately, as I said earlier, the true test is if you can marry that with the Real. Even though we may have dimensional aspects to our souls and to our consciousness, as mankind, reality is our home. It is the shell we exist in. Yes, be that force, but marry it with an OBJECTIVE. You'll have to know what you're aiming for if you are to achieve it. Painful as it is!!!
dimitraeus202 2 years ago
"Objective."
I would, in turn, recommend that you read Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenence followed by his second book (infinitly, the better of the two) Lila.
Pirsig speaks of the intellectual toolsets we use to interpret reality. Pirsig's problem is with subject/object metaphysics. His solution is a metaphysics based on "Good." I agree.
The application is another thing altogether. We don't understand the problem yet. Forget the solution.
This is long term.
bobbygnosis 2 years ago
It's funny. :) I don't think that you realise that you keep referring to the 'two worlds' of the spiritual hero, without knowing it. I believe we have had this discussion for a reason. Have you read the book 'The Hero with A Thousand Faces'?
dimitraeus202 2 years ago
I'm in the process of reading Masks of God - Primitive Mythology (Volume 1 of 4). I just finished The Power of Myth.
To be honest I find his style kind of dry in that post-victorian way, but it's still amusing. While his idiom is dated his ideas are powerful. His analysis of people's concepts of God have made many religious texts much more accessible to me. I'm pleased about it. I don't know enough of Campbells' thoughts to comment really, though. I kind of want to read more. He's interesting
bobbygnosis 2 years ago
Actually, Control always works from top down, and bolts rules on top of people's real selves. In its extreme case, it suffocates the human soul.
Spirit works from the inside, bursting out.
That's why Spirit is always in conflict with Control.
That's why I believe a new movement must be controlled, but with Spirit at its core.
dimitraeus202 2 years ago
I understand why you believe that. The only thing with which I disagree is the angle at which you're looking.
You feel compelled to do a particular action or feel compelled to not do a particular action. And so you do or do not do that action based on the idea of reward / punishment. However, the will to do or not do lies within YOU. Not the authority attempting to compel you.
You are in control of your life. No one else. Remember that God gave you freewill. It is yours to use or not use.
bobbygnosis 2 years ago
Again, I agree with being 'outside of the accepted' and it is completely in agreement with einstein's famous phrase that you 'cannot solve a problem with the same level of consciousness that created it.
However
Einstein was a scientist and only needed to shed his brilliance on other scientists. Affecting society I believe is different, because ultimately an election WILL have to be won. There simply isn't a party right now that represents these concerns. If there were, ......
dimitraeus202 2 years ago
The people who fund what we call the parties will not allow such a thing. This is not a solution that will come about with electing new party members. This is a solution that can only happen when people realize that the parties are not the answer. You must know how corruption works from top down as well as from bottom up.
Belief in parties made us complicit. Belief in another party will be a different complicity. This isn't passive or elsewhere. YOU being active. That's the solution.
bobbygnosis 2 years ago
When I say 'party' I am not tainting it with concepts of the usual political ones we are used to.
Socrates saw this coming and hated the 'sophists', which we now call 'politicians'. His intellect was dangerous enough that they wanted rid of him. I just don't see the endgame of what you're proposing. What do you see happening in your ideal situation?
dimitraeus202 2 years ago
For personal reasons I disagree with the view of sophists as politicians. Socrates was said to be the greatest sophist of all. He was no politician by any stretch.
If anything I think the sophists are a lost treasure. For example, we only have pieces of Epicurus. I'm more in line with Pirsig's thoughts on the sophists.
Another way of thinking about the sophists is that they were concerned with education and doing good; they were condemned. This reminds me of Jesus; also condemned.
bobbygnosis 2 years ago
Hey. I think you misunderstand. Socrates absolutely hated the Sophists. He was a philosopher, and basically the philosophers loves truth, which I think you are refering to, whereas the Sophists used truth and knowledge for their own benefit, ie to gain political 'success'. Sophistry is basically the art of spin and of winning debate. The philosophers hated the Sophists.
dimitraeus202 2 years ago
I'm not altogether sure I'm misunderstanding. Etymologically speaking philosopher is philos - love. And sophia - knowledge. Sophist would mean, techinally, one who is wise or learned.
I know that Socrates was reputed for hating the sophists. But when you think about it he was a sophist as well. He was wise and he loved knowledge. Sophist / philosopher / teacher / seeker of knowledge. Remember that all we know about the sophists is what Socrates said in contempt.
I, for one, love Sophia.
bobbygnosis 2 years ago
"philosophers loves truth"
This is Very Much something that Pirsig speaks of in his book Lila. It actually agree that truth is a great thing. I happen to believe that truth is a way of understanding things so that you can make Good Decisions. I make this distinction because I don't hold truth to be the best thing ever. I hold Good to be the best thing. Truth is a way of getting to Good. And so in this sense truth is a wonderful thing. Truth is a tool to be used. But it is only a tool.
bobbygnosis 2 years ago
The end game of what I proposing is not really clear to me either. I'm still at a point of gathering information and understanding. Like I say; the only thing I see is that what is happening is not working. I think a bottom-up approach is the best way.
WE are the ones who allow ourselves to be used as serfs and pawns in their games. We need to understand that the power lies within us as opposed to them. This is how to break the cycle.
What about the next? That IS an excellent question.
bobbygnosis 2 years ago
I would also like to state that, for me, the best type of beginning to a real solution is a re-examination of how we guage things. I think we need a new measuring stick. I think the measuring stick should be "Good."
Jesus had a lot to say about it. So did Buddha. Most philosophers have touched on the concept. But I think it's the only way we really make decisions. We think everything is based on rules or truth. But really we choose what is better - or Good.
This is the first step for me.
bobbygnosis 2 years ago
I agree, but the universe itself, including reality, relies on a balance. We cannot be totally without control. Systems, if they are not imprisonments, can actually aid us & the fact is, we need them to buy milk at the supermarket!! It will be very hard for you to get momentum going if you are working outside of the system. The inconvenient truth is that you must both be enlightened BUT ALSO BE ON THE WAVELENGTH OF THE PEOPLE in order to be what Joseph Campbell called 'the master of both worlds'
dimitraeus202 2 years ago
You are the control. You allow or deny someone's control over you. To be clear I don't think all governments are bad, but I do think this one has gone awry. We have the power to say no and enact a new system of government - legally under the constitution.
As for being "on the same wavelength" this reminds me of people who added to human thought inside or outside of normal thought. All of the best were from outside of the accepted.
Everything you know wasn't accepted when it was introduced.
bobbygnosis 2 years ago
As per the "magic" it seems clear that you didn't quite catch the subtlety of my strawman technique. This is where I have come clean and clearly state that I was making fun of the official line. Khalid's testimony was procured via torture. He may as well have confessed to killing Jimmy Hoffa, JFK and Laura Palmer.
Khalid is what is commonly referred to as a scapegoat. Or a "patsy." Now that we can point to who did it all we can rest safe, watch TV and buy more electronics made in China.
bobbygnosis 2 years ago
I agree there should be an investigation. However, that won't happen until there is an overhall of the two-party system in US and British politics.
The fact is, that investigation may just be too scary for the world to handle.
dimitraeus202 2 years ago
Most people would be upset. It would call into question a lot of party allegiances. Which calls into mind mental constructions of reality. People would certainly be upset. We're told to think that all lefts are bad and all rights are good. Or that all rights are bad and all lefts are good. But fundamentally this is nonsense when you examine the policies enacted by either party. It's a control grid and an investigation would expose the control grid.
I don't care. I want to know.
bobbygnosis 2 years ago
Since you are aware of 'constructions of reality', then you will know that reality itself, even in its truest form, is actually a construct. Yes, you want to know. But let's appraise rality and the state of consciousness in the human race for how it really is right now... In your heart, you must know that people are neither committed, nor READY for this kind of thing. It would be another whitewash. Put your energies towards something that can really happen-support new parties etc.
dimitraeus202 2 years ago
"Reality in its truest form"
Hey, Aristotle, you're two sentences away from over reaching and turning your ideations into an academic pile of dust.
As for supporting new parties - no thanks. Parties got us into this mess and you think another one is going to Do The Trick?
This is folly. Your metaphysics is inapplicable to the mess. It's what created the mess. Using the same intellectual tools will yield the same results. You must expand your tool-set.
Read more. Think more.
bobbygnosis 2 years ago
Not at all, bobby. ;) I actually really LIKE what you're saying. You seem to be someone that has gone beyond the perceived reality. I also went beyond, and believed for a while we could be 'free' of this control. But what I have come to realise is it is very easy to have such a mindset, but much harder to 'return' to reality to contribute and add some of the gift you have back to society. That is the hardest journey, and I agree that a higher level of being than what created the mess is needed.
dimitraeus202 2 years ago
I will freely admit that I'm reading into what you're saying and am probably attributing ideas that you aren't stating. That said;
Coming back? No thanks. I am currently working as hard as possible to get thoughts out. Get ideas going. It is hard work. It starts locally. With friends. If they don't get it that sucks. I find people who are thinking.
There are options. We don't have to live in this system. It's all in our heads. We are the change. Not politicians. People need to know that.
bobbygnosis 2 years ago
"the state of consciousness in the human race for how it really is right now"
I re-read that sentence and it reminds me of Nietzsche's posthumous birth. What I mean is that you are correct that in general people aren't ready to put their swords down. These concepts won't be recognized by many people and, like Nietzsche's best ideas, if anyone were to give real thought to such things on a larger scale it would be well after I am dead.
But that doesn't stop me from Getting The Word Out.
bobbygnosis 2 years ago
It's very interesting. A lot of scripture actually talks about the kind of journey you're on and the problems associated with it. Greek myth too- the story of Cassandra, destined always to prophesy the truth, and never to be believed, comes to mind.
At some point, if you're going to have the effect you want, you're going to have to marry the Ideal, with the Real. Ie THE DREAM, with reality. That is the challenge. How much of this dream can you filter into the mundane world of reality...
dimitraeus202 2 years ago
I'm not concerned with dreams or ideals.
Frankly, I'm looking at my friends - most of whom haven't enough to eat, are homeless or a paycheck away from homelessness.
This is not an abstract hypothetical I'm examing. It's myself and everyone I know. The sysems that are in place are creating desperation, poverty and anguish. We are allowing it. Many turn to sex and drugs to kill the pain. I don't care about Band-Aids and gauze.
I want answers. I want a better world.
^This is my calling
bobbygnosis 2 years ago
I like the way you used the word 'band-aids'. I often use that exact phrase myself. The analogy I think that works best is that the ROOTS of this tree are rotten, and yet everyone (including politicians) simply see the branches, and then tape them off when they look bad. The truth is, we need a tree with strong roots. Of course, the politicians will not do this, because tackling the real cause effectively means the end of their way of being.
dimitraeus202 2 years ago
I believe you are understanding something.
I would like to stress, right away, that I do not think that Feding For Yourself is the only option. I believe very much in helping others and I believe very much in the goodness of people. I think there's a great place for cooperation.
However, the way things are run now we are abusing and killing each other for a few bucks. This, surely, is not what God would want.
I don't know what to do just yet. But do I know that what I see is not working
bobbygnosis 2 years ago
Since we do not know who did 9/11 much less have him in custody we can plainly and soberly conclude that the person or group might do another 9/11.
Let me stress this: we haven't been told who did 9/11. The 9/11 Commission did not say they were even interested in who did it. We don't know who the murderer is and we're not looking for that murderer.
That person or group is still on the loose and since they did it once I don't see why they won't again. This is why a criminal investigation.
bobbygnosis 2 years ago
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was the planner of the attacks. It was called 'the planes operation' and was originally intended to hijack up to 12 planes and blow them up in mid-air. The plan morphed to using planes as missiles. Bin Laden was not involved in the planning- he was more of a benefactor icon for islamic jihad. 19 hijackers DID pull off the event, the real question is whether they were aided in pulling it off by assets within the intelligence community. We have been told who 'did' it.....
dimitraeus202 2 years ago
My previous comment ought to be followed up by this:
If there was a serial murderer on the loose it is the reponsibility of the people and the authorities to be sure that murderer does not murder again. Osama was said to be the murderer,but without evidence to link him. So we do not know who the murderer is. No one was prosecuted for being the mastermind or organizer of 9/11. This means that, by any criteria, we are no closer to "getting the murderer" than we were on 9/12/01.
bobbygnosis 2 years ago
Again, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was prosecuted for being the mastermind- and he was. They just have an interest in keeping his profile lower so they can use the 'Bin Laden bogeyman' myth in order to follow a grander plan. This is all easily accessed by looking into the case- just do a check for Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
dimitraeus202 2 years ago
I forgot about Khalid.
Khalid had the access to airport security, NORAD, FBI, CIA, NSA, the Pentagon, the Whitehouse, etc and it was all him. Khalid was also able to disobey the laws of physics three times in a row on the same day with some kind of Muslim Magic that we don't even know about.
That's so tidy. So neat. It was all Khalid. He used magic to make 9/11 happen. And now we don't need to look into who funded Khalid because it doesn't matter - he's magic.
Criminal investigation.
bobbygnosis 2 years ago
What's the magic? The plan was hatched. (I also have concerns like you that there was intel on the inside that eased the operation), but technically Khalid Mohammed didn't need to have all those areas aligned. I agree with you it's dodgy, esp Moussaui being arrested before the attacks but no other checks being done, but what is this 'magic' you talk about? Please explain very precisely and not with general answers. Do you have a theory?
dimitraeus202 2 years ago
Technically Khalid DID have all of those agencies aligned.
NORAD failed to act. As did, FBI, CIA, the Whitehouse, NSA etc. Had they been operating - even one of those agencies - 9/11 would have been bungled. You underestimate the value of the redundancies built into our "pre-9/11" system.
All of those agencies failed. The only rational conclusion is that either A.) literally every one of the thousands of people in those agencies are idiots or B.) Khalid is God.
Or C.) Investigation.
bobbygnosis 2 years ago
For the sake of saying so I'll go ahead and say what I think about 9/11:
We know that NORAD, the Pentagon, multiple airports, FBI, CIA, NSA and many other important entities were not operating coherently to the very type of situation for which they were designed. That, itself, is enough for me to wonder. That there was an active cover up (recycling the steel, Zelikow, NIST's ridiculous WTC 1, 2 and 7 reports) is enough for me to think a criminal activity happened.
Criminal investigation.
bobbygnosis 2 years ago
I HATE TONY BLAIR AND ALISDAIR CAMPBELL. THEY BOTH WERE COMPLICIT IN THE "SEXED UP" DOCUMENTS WHICH FALSELY CLAIMED THAT IRAQ COULD NUKE U.K. IN 45 MINUTES. LYING SODS. I hope they have trouble sleeping at night because they have the death of lots of brown peeps on their souls.
I also cannot believe that both twin towers fell so fast, so freely. It does not fit with my understanding of basic physics. building 7 falling down was also silly.
Can't trust a neo-con.
big up Brian Eno.
islamic jihad
noklarok 2 years ago
"Nineteen guys with box cutters did 9/11."
That is one of the most impressive fantasies I've ever heard.
bobbygnosis 2 years ago 2
Whilst I look very very heavily into 9/11 and have often considered that there may have been intel on the inside to 'smooth out' the attack, I don't think there's much doubt about the fact that arabic terrorists took over the plane with knives (they were also trained in hand to hand combat). We have the phone calls from the planes. That seems pretty irrefutable. What is your theory? If you don't think terrorists took over the planes, what theory are you purporting?? Please hit 'reply' ;)
dimitraeus202 2 years ago
I'm sure straightafter the event of 911, the BBC discovered that some of the named terrorists on board the planes were still alive.....tell me how that can be possible? Tehnologically speaking, it has only been within the last 2 years that telephony on borad planes were made possible.....the system did not exist prior or on 911....how were those phone calls made?
GhanDProductions 2 years ago
Where is this evidence that the hijackers were found alive?? This just isn't true- I know a lot of conspiracy sites say that, well then let's have them on tape!!! There's just no evidence at all for that and you need evidence for a theory. As for the calls, I'm pretty sure mobile phones often do work, but I think one main call was made by the flight phone by an asian woman. In any case, what is your theory? These were secret CIA agents pretending to call? You must put forward a cogent theory.
dimitraeus202 2 years ago
BBC News website....no theory....search for headline "Hijack 'suspects' alive and well"
GhanDProductions 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@GhanDProductions
It took the BBC only days to find out that the headline "Hijack 'suspects' alive and well" was complete bullshit. The BBC journalists were interviewed : NOONE spoke with the hijackers, they just copied an arabic article, which was copied from another arabic article about the suicide video of one of the hijackers.
German journalists visited all their families.
None of them are alive.
nacimientoroad 1 year ago
@GhanDProductions
Oh dear!!! Poor Ghandproductions. You got taken in by Alex Jones. This has been PROPERLY disproven (and even retracted by one of Alex Jones close friends called Keith Garrett, who went to the far east to prove they were alive and tape them and came back with nothing as they were already dead. Its so sad that you get so easily taken in by this stuff. Here's the SUICIDE video of the hijacker they quote as alive: Copy and paste into youtube serach
ABDULAZIZ AL-OMARI
dimitraeus202 1 year ago
@dimitraeus202 there's proof everywhere if you bother to look. So typical to deny everything despite the evidence and not even bother to check.
psynema 1 year ago
@psynema Sorry mate, I'm far more informed than you.
Even a friend of Alex Jones went out to the far east to find these guys and videotape them. He came back and admitted they were dead. I believe his surname was GARRETT. But does Alex Jones talk about that? No. It's you that are not informed and playing out your worries about the world into a fake belief system. Copy and paste this name into your youtube search engine
ABDULAZIZ AL-OMARI
That's the hijacker Alex Jones etc quoted as alive.
dimitraeus202 1 year ago
@dimitraeus202 huh? Jones is a quack job. F off.
psynema 1 year ago
@psynema
agrrreeed
todanp 9 months ago
@GhanDProductions
They found a guy WITH THE SAME NAME!!!!! It was NOT the hijacker. They later admitted the mistake. Imagine if the hijackers were english and one was called JAMES SMITH. An arabic news station might have gone to a JAMES SMITH's home and mistaken them for being an ALIVE HIJACKER. James smith would prob reply 'Icannot believe you think I am a hijcker' in surprise, JUST AS THE MISTAKENLY INTERVIEWED GUY DID TO THE BBC. You have emotional attachment to this issue. That's the prob.
dimitraeus202 1 year ago
@GhanDProductions
They found a guy WITH THE SAME NAME!!!!! It was NOT the hijacker. They later admitted the mistake. Imagine if the hijackers were english and one was called JAMES SMITH. An arabic news station might have gone to a JAMES SMITH's home and mistaken them for being an ALIVE HIJACKER. James Smith would prob reply 'Icannot believe you think I am a hijcker' in surprise, JUST AS THE MISTAKENLY INTERVIEWED GUY DID TO THE BBC. You have emotional attachment to this issue. That's the prob.
dimitraeus202 1 year ago
Truth be told - I have no idea. The 9/11 Commission specifically stated that they wouldn't look into who funded 9/11. George W. Bush presented no evidence linking Osama to 9/11. The FBI - as of this moment - does not ask for Osama in connection to 9/11 or the 93' bombing.
The official line is that there is no official line. If they're saying they don't know then how can I know? They had millions of dollars and all I have is my computer. I think a criminal investigation is the only way.
bobbygnosis 2 years ago
@bobbygnosis Could you please explain your alternative theory? Bonus points if you can talk about something other than non-existent "planted explosives", the ridiculous notion of an "NWO", or the downright stupid idea that the government could plan and execute a conspiracy to kill thousands of its own people without a single information leak. Maybe your own world finds itself firmly planted in the grounds of fantasy?
DrLoonatic 9 months ago
@DrLoonatic ZING!
bobbygnosis 9 months ago
turd*
yoitsgiook 3 years ago
That was insulting how Rumsfeld had the nerve to go on television and present this nonsense about these hi-tech mountains and caves. What a piece of turn.
yoitsgiook 3 years ago 2
isnt it amazing that when bush was talking about the terrors of al qaeda at 15:00, he had a smirk all over his face??
alia4eva 3 years ago
Bush was a puppet. However, even as a puppet, he still knew enough to be amused. I agree. I am also disturbed by Bush's overall demeanor between the years of 1999 and 2008. The horrifying thing is that the same policies are being followed by Obama.
It's too bad. We're damned if we do and we're damned if we don't. No matter the voting decision the same policies are enacted. Blue and Red are both doing the same things. It is truly upsetting to me.
Peace.
bobbygnosis 2 years ago
god i hate duch bags. and that seems to be all power ever is.
A76patriot76 3 years ago