Joseph Smith more important than Jesus to mormons?

[strictmachine06]

testskriftene,

I would like to invite you to go to a testimony meeting YOURSELF. Perhaps you will find that to be a better method of investigation(and perhaps feel the spirit as we do during these meetings). I am a proud Latter Day Saint. Though I don't know you and I don't favor your opinions towards the LDS Church in this video, I wish you all the blessings that our Heavenly Father has prepared for you, so long as you live righteously. I love my savior(Jesus Christ), and I love you brother.

[dorisfenella]

Whatever, Joseph Smith never wanted that.

[xstaysea]

Wow, you got all of that out of a "yes" reply? I'm not the one with hate in my heart. Actions speak louder than words. I feel content in my heart, how about you? I am not bashing others down and judging others. How about you? Heres a little advice: take a long look at whats in your own heart, stop hiding behind a computer, and start investigating the truth. While your at it treat others how you'd like to be treated.

[SuperStankful]

by the way know how joseph smith "prophesized" the mormon bible?

he put a "seeing stone" in the bottom of a hat, stuck his face in the hole, and visions appeared before him (with captions underneath). that sounds pretty absolutely nuts to believe in to me.

you know god lives on the moon? and thats where heaven is?

dumb dumb gullible people. you think god gets any cut of your "tidings"? you pay 15% of your "evil" money to GAIN ENTRANCE TO HEAVEN. wtf? really?

go drink some coffee, sober up.

[Sk8er408]

@SuperStankful

Point out this hat stone thing... or are you just propagating what youve heard? Yea you are... cause the moon thing was not about god... and tithing means tenth... not fifteenth.

Get off the dope and sober up.

[SuperStankful]

@Sk8er408 a straight edge skater mormon. im so jealous of what you are.

oh god i cant feel my brain! im too doped up!

ok, so if those are "false" what about mormons thinking black people are cursed?

ill feed you one question at a time until either you realize youre in a false religion, or your brain resets.

CAN NOT COMPUTE.

[Sk8er408]

@SuperStankful

I'm not straight edge or Mormon.

the only curse was for the dark skinned lamenites. It did not say anything about Africans.

You are simpleminded aren't you?

[SuperStankful]

@Sk8er408 and based upon what you JUST said, jews are a cursed people. wow.

racism at its best folks! gather 'round!

[Sk8er408]

@SuperStankful

No... just the Lamanites.

[SuperStankful]

@Sk8er408 do you know what lamanite means? people of israel.

last time i checked people from israel were also referred to as JEWS. jew hater.

[Sk8er408]

@SuperStankful

No... actually i believe they claim linage from Ephraim and Manasseh. If you are going to make stupid accusations. at least get it correctly.

[SuperStankful]

@Sk8er408 well i believe youre wrong. guess that puts us at an impass. racist.

[Sk8er408]

@SuperStankful

bigot... How am i a racist? You don't know me my beliefs or my race. Oh ya... you're a bigot... that's right.

[SuperStankful]

@Sk8er408 no youre a bigot! and a faggot! and a turtle kissing loon!

[Sk8er408]

@SuperStankful

and your a caca popo head. :-P

[SuperStankful]

@Sk8er408 no you.

[SuperStankful]

@Sk8er408 he Book of Mormon describes the Lamanites as descendants of Laman and Lemuel, two rebellious brothers of a family of Israelites <-ISRAELITES. thats jews!

[Sk8er408]

@SuperStankful

Israelites does not mean only jews dullard. There are 12 different tribes. The jews are but one tribe. Please continue your ignorant posts.

[SuperStankful]

@Sk8er408 oh so you think TWELVE different tribes are cursed? my apologies for underestimating your supreme racism, almighty one.

[Sk8er408]

@SuperStankful

Cursed... only the wicked are cursed. It doesn't matter your race.

[SuperStankful]

@Sk8er408 not according to YOUR bible and YOUR prophets.

[Sk8er408]

@SuperStankful

My bible would be yours... unless you have some bible that is different.... Same goes with the prophets.

Way to assume.

FYI... i'm not mormon

[SuperStankful]

@Sk8er408 i dont have a bible. LOSE

[Sk8er408]

@SuperStankful

That would be your lost.

[SuperStankful]

@Sk8er408 also my apologies for overestimated you by saying you spend 15% of your LIFE'S earning to get into heaven.

youre a real cheapskate.

one would think heaven would be worth all the money in the world... but not you mormons. only 10% of it.

also look up "bill maher and mormonism". hes got plenty of links.

[Sk8er408]

@SuperStankful

bill maher is a dullard. why would he be the authority about anything... oh... that is right...you are a dullard and I'm guessing he is the authority on everything for you.

[SuperStankful]

@Sk8er408 he just happens to present facts very unfortunate for you. sourced from your prophet, and prophets.

if you dont watch i understand, not every day someone can have their crazy box world rocked.

and the answer is yes. im wearing a bill maher t shirt, and hat, and drinking coffee from my favorite bill maher mug. and my shoelaces! youll have to see them!

mormon bible said blacks came from cains seed and it was cursed. i mean, i hate to use this one, BUT ITS IN THE BIBLE. (for mormons)

[Sk8er408]

@SuperStankful

The curse is nothing more then a mark... If you read their bible you would know that in the end the curse was white skin as they were the evil ones. Skin color was not the only mark used to mark the wicked from the righteous. Clothing and facial paint was also used. Go go ahead and exploit the hot button topic... I understand simple minded people are attracted to shiny objects.

[SuperStankful]

@Sk8er408 ps. i also give bill maher 10% of my lifes earnings so i can get into heaven.

[saguire]

...The truth remains on the flip side i.e. that mormons are so insistantly invitive, too forceful at times one may even say intruding, like a credit card or a salesman in the way you invite/force visitors to visit your church,

that is in fact what gives most people the creeps and has them running in the opposite direction. Why do they want us to come to their Church so bad, it is like a secret club, the unknown.

[strictmachine06]

@saguire I think that any church who believes they have something that will make others' lives better would be doing the same thing by trying to invite as many people as will hear to come with them. Since the LDS church has the truth, the members want nothing more than to have others feel that same comfort they feel. "Secret club" it is not. Visit mormon.org

[saguire]

Dear Mormmons, let me reveal you a secret about your tactics in evangelism from an isometric view only an outsider can have. No offence intended in anyway:

When you say things like:

'Everyone is welcome...', '...No one will be pushed away, no one will be rejected or scolded, It is totally welcoming. In fact, visitors are encouraged to attend. No one is going to look down upon any outsider.

Outsiders will be welcomed with opened arms'...

[cipacteoo]

testskriftene ? do you know the BYU website where i can read the church history and journal discourses.? you can email me cipactli_3@yahoo.com

[xstaysea]

I like your post. I am going to email you the info. Also I would encourage your to visit a Mormon church on Sundays as well. Everyone is welcome to attend services and learn about it. No one will be pushed away, no one will be rejected or scolded for anything. It is totally welcoming. In fact, visitors are encouraged to attend. No one is going to look down upon any outsider. Outsiders will be welcomed with opened arms.

[SuperStankful]

@xstaysea BUUUUUUUUUULLSHIT. you know i got dirty looks for holding open doors for old people? DIRTY LOOKS FOR DOING THEM A FAVOR!!

while youll be welcomed publicly, be SURE that when they go home theyll all talk shit about you RIGHT THEN AND THERE if you dont meet their "criteria"

at least thats utah mormons. (and jack mormons dont count)

[xstaysea]

No one is putting anyone "in the place of Jesus Christ." This man is BITTER about something. He's got all the facts wrong about Mormonism. It seems to me like he is afraid of the truth. Hmmm, why would he be afraid? Judgment day coming soon for ya bub? I pity his heart.

[thesignsoflife7]

@xstaysea

This is the heart of Mormonism? "Judgment day coming soon for ya bub?"

Yuk.

I've been studying Mormonism for a number of years, this guy has it straight.

I pity Mormons who think their good deeds are going to impress a holy and perfect God.

[xstaysea]

There is no such thing as a perfect person & by no means am I one of those people who is trying to "claim" to be perfect. Let me tell you something-I got baptized in the church about a year ago (raised christian) & I am still far from perfect. And in either faith, everyone will be judged to the degree that they practice good faith on this earth &lifetime. I'm not here to judge you or anyone. I just want everyone to practice a good lifestyle while were & and just live a good life.

[thesignsoflife7]

@xstaysea

Let me ask you one thing:

I'm a Christian, by faith I believe Jesus paid for my sins by his blood shed on the cross.

In your view: Is that faith alone enough to save me?

[xstaysea]

@thesignsoflife7: yes. I doesn't say anywhere in the BOM that you wouldn't be. There is a big misconception about the BOM. People go carrying on when they don't have the facts and just go off hear-say. Its like that game "telephone". If you have studied it, prayed about it and you get the correct answer from heavenly father then there is no need to be upset with anyone that has an opposing view. The only thing each person can do for themselves is to pray about it.

[thesignsoflife7]

@xstaysea

Sorry to be brutal but your specious Mormon test is a false test.

You assume that the only answer is 'yes' and any other answer means the prayer was not done with real and true intent.

I don't need to watch 'Vixens in Heat' to know it probably is not a documentary about desert foxes.

God already told us to be ready for false teachers in Galatians.

What happened is that you didn't heed the warning and are here trying to persuade others to do the same.

[dorisfenella]

@thesignsoflife7 Hello hater.

[thesignsoflife7]

@dorisfenella

I just found this.

You clicked on this video just to call me names??

Sad, sad, sad.

[Sk8er408]

@thesignsoflife7

Mr. Pot... have you meet Mr. Kettle?

[Sk8er408]

@thesignsoflife7

And you assume the only answer is "no"...

[thesignsoflife7]

@Sk8er408

Then they asked Him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"

Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

.

Mormons miss this part out because it undermines their church teaching.

What duplicitous Mormons really mean by "works" is working for the Mormon church and obeying Mormon teachings. This is patently false.

[Sk8er408]

@thesignsoflife7

This is but the first step to do his works. Did his disciples do nothing but believe?

This does not undermine the LDS as they believe the first principal is Faith. You can do nothing if you do not first have faith. Yet faith without works is dead. Your claim of no works is a claim that your faith is dead.

LDS teach the works of Christ found in the bible... what do you teach? Blind dead faith?

[thesignsoflife7]

@Sk8er408

The first ---and only step--- required by God is belief.

Read the passage again.

Jesus here had the perfect opportunity to give them a laundry list of "thou shalts" but instead chose to simply go to the heart of the matter- the work God wants is belief in His Son.

You have been misled into thinking Christians have "blind dead faith" because we will not accept your false prophet.

Ever heard of Rich Mullins?

Read the lyrics to his acapella song: Screendoor On A Submarine.

[Sk8er408]

@thesignsoflife7

Seems you have not read the words of Jesus... John 15:12-14 would be a good start.

You do not understand the meaning of belief. So you are calling Christ a false prophet?

Christ did teach all the "thou shalts"

Seems you missed that part also.

[Sk8er408]

@thesignsoflife7

James 2

18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

[thesignsoflife7]

@Sk8er408

I KNEW you'd do that!!!

Get out of the KJV man, we don't talk like that any more.

Its really old going over this garbage over and over with blind Mormons.

Harping on the same passage will not make the words of Jesus any less effective. The work of faith is FIRST belief. Then actions naturally follow.

***Christians believe this.***

We DON'T believe in working to gain salvation O vain Mormon who thinks God is impressed with his nice white shirt.

Did you read the lyrics I suggested? No.

[Sk8er408]

@thesignsoflife7

So what are you saying... that the KJV is in error?

I'm not Mormon... and I dont even wear glasses.

WHen did I or any LDS ever claim that we have to work for our salvation... all i did was quote scripture to you and you got all bent.

Why dont you read the bible instead of adding to it... and denying it with new ways of translating it.

[thesignsoflife7]

@Sk8er408

1. You're not a Mormon but are here defending them. Right. Your use of James from the KJV is right out of the Mormon playbook.

2. Mormons are taught that the essentials of salvation include mandatory tithing and belief in a modern prophet.

3. I have read the Bible through thanks, and have spent 25 years studying it. I really don't need a lecture on adding to the Bible from random people on YouTube.

I'm bored with this conversation. You're saying nothing.

[Sk8er408]

@thesignsoflife7

1Since when is James the Mormon playbook? Is that chapter stapled shut in your bible?

2Tithing is not mandatory anymore then the next commandment. LDS believe in self regulation. There are lots of LDS that do not pay 10%. The essentials of salvation in the LDS church is Faith, Repentance Baptism and the Spirit. These would be the four basic or essentials. Every thing else is built on these.

3Well seems to me you have a bit of a pride problem and can not take some criticism.

[strictmachine06]

@thesignsoflife7 I pity those who fail to recognize that gaining Christ-like attributes is in any way a bad thing. What did Jesus do if not good deeds HIS ENTIRE LIFE.

[SuperStankful]

@xstaysea hey youre a cunt and youre goin to hell. fuck off. *im paraphrasing you*

[xstaysea]

@SuperStankful: Hey everybody. Lets follow this guys example. That will get us REAL far in life. Someone who didn't get enough attention from his mommy!! What a GREAT example you are setting. Tell me, are you ANY faith? That wasn't a question, we obviously know the answer to that. Don't answer. Spare us all.

[GregorEzpo]

I have no Idea why people would worship a mortal man such as Joesph Smith. They should instead be worshiping a mortal man like Joshua of Nazareth.

[latterdaymystic]

Read Ephesians 2:13-16. The Mormon LDS church is the great and abominable church of Satan foretold of in Revelation to beware of and not follow FALSE prophets. I was a 50 year member and recently left that evil brainwashing cult that destroy families and holds you in their emotional bondage that makes it so hard to leave "the fold". But Jesus said the truth shall make you free. He is leading people out of that false religion by the thousands in these last days. Praise to the Man Joe S. no more!

[latterdaymystic]

Read Ephesians 2:13-16. The Mormon LDS church is the great and abominable church of Satan foretold of in Revelation to beware of and not follow FALSE prophets. I was a 50 year member and recently left that evil brainwashing cult that destroy families and holds you in their emotional bondage that makes it so hard to leave "the fold". But Jesus said the truth shall make you free. He is leading people out of that false religion by the thousands in these last days.

[latterdaymystic]

John the Revelator was told by an ANGEL to not worship him, but God ONLY. I got so tired of the LDS Mormons singing "Praise to the Man" (Joseph Smith). They are also ashamed of the cross, ever since that evil false prophet, Brigham Young desecrated the Christian cross at Nountain Meadows Massacre, which he called a "vile Christian symbol".

[squrilleyboy]

Shawn, you hit the nail right on the head in this video! Praising a mere man over God (even if he did call himself a "prophet") is just sick! I grew up going to the salvation army and am still a faithful member, but if they ever start having us praise William Booth over God, you better believe I would leave in a heart beat!

[jackjohnsonsonson]

don't call yourself christian if all you do is spread shit on other religions. and laugh at there believes.

[lilbeaveymac]

@jackjohnsonsonson well jesus criticized beliefs that were deceptive and wrong

[jackjohnsonsonson]

science makes religion a load of shit anyways. the only way that i can find any belief in religion is prayer, and thats what made me mormon for a while, cause you do get real answers to prayers, and i cant find a science psychological reason why i did get those feelings that could be defined as "spiritual"

if you believe the power of prayer is a load of shit thats your believe and thats fine, but don't ever tell people that you believe jesus cares about you enough to answer you.

[DivineMagixWorld]

@jackjohnsonsonson Every religion gives it's members a "feeling" that what they believe is true.Mormons seem to think only their prayers are answered..That's B.S. The Muslim gets a "feeling" that what he believes is true, The catholic gets a "feeling" that their faith is correct, just as the mormon, christian, buddhist gets the same "feeling" that their faith is true. You don't need to find a psychological reason why you get those feelings. Your heart can tell you anything you want it too.Agree?

[aimeecurry46]

@DivineMagixWorld Well said Jeremiah 17:9

[jackjohnsonsonson]

what the hell do you define as "christian" anyways.

I haven't been to church in forever, but they take sacrament in remembrance of jesus and i wen't all i heard was jesus atleast fuking a hundred times. Just because they believe you actually have to put for work to get into heaven, you bitch and say oh god saves everyone who believes in him alone, go have sex, rape some kids and well all be hanging out with the virgin mary.

seriously shut the hell up.

[JuNoKun1]

I praise Joseph Smith for being a very successful con guy...

Successful, because some morons still actually believe in all this...

[crazy456eyes]

Well said Shawn, straight to the heart of the matter

[cthunder1000]

Mormons are wolves in sheep's clothing

[pipfollett01]

do you realise you mention Joseph smith more in this video than the saviour does that mean you are not a Christian too?

[neurodoc45]

revel 20:12 indicates there is a day of Judgement.....only then will anyone know if they are saved....only those who keep his commandments and endure to the end will be saved.....

[aningloriousbastard]

joe smith was a con man, plain and simple. People believe what theyre told and most of you were told that joe smith was a prophet. He's as much a prophet as barack obama. They both lie to get power and then ask for money

[TiggerTegs]

i find it interesting how they say we (mormons) put Joseph Smith higher up then Jesus Christ because the whole Gospel is centered around Jesus Christ. The lady who went to a Fast and Testimony Sacrament meeting should think about going to more than just one meeting before she goes judging our Church. Some Sundays people will testify about Joseph Smith because that is what the Holy Ghost inspires them to share, however, on other Sundays people may testify about our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

[WayneTheWriter]

filoll if you think we talk to our own people with different interpretation, then i would leave the church. so..i've been in church for 14 years, and i haven't seen your doctrine about mary having sex in the our church. remember, i WAS an opposer of mormonism.

[filoIII]

Do your prophets HAVE to use the word "sex" to get their meaning across? what do I mean when I say "johnny used to fornicate a lot"? i didnt use the word "sex" but you sure know what i mean. you're playing games. this is all part of the mormon and islamic systems---speak nice and lie to your face, BUT behind your back and with their own people they say what they really mean.

[WayneTheWriter]

Lol. Nope. I wanted you to provide a solid evidences that we "believe in mary having sex with God" doctrine. That were invented and twisted by the anti-mormon. So, the "game" is called "show me the hard solid evidence" to prove you;re right. You haven't yet. So... she is a Virgin Mary. Question for you. HOW does YOUR version of Mary get pregnant with Jesus? Magic wand?

[filoIII]

i gave your prophets' quotes. there's more. but it's not necessary. Mt 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.----this is how the seed of God was supernaturally planted in the womb of Mary. not some dude that lives near the planet/star kolob. good luck with your perverting of the gospel. i hope a seed has been planted in your mind about how mormonism is a cult

[WayneTheWriter]

Thank you for agreeing with our doctrines. Yes we believe in putting the "seed" in. That's how you put it. It's the same thing we believe in. Well done. He is the Son of God after all. Kolob is a first creation. No one said it was a planet or a star. Anti Mormons thought God lived in Kolob. We had to explain to them it is NEAR God. You got it right again. Well done for sharing exactly the same doctrine.

[filoIII]

The man Joseph, the husband of Mary, did not, that we know of, have more than one wife, but Mary the wife of Joseph had another husband. (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 11:268)

[hadmebefore]

And id love for yo to somehow show mormons see Joseph Smith as more important than Christ.

[WayneTheWriter]

hadmebefore. Sorry to disappoint you. Mormons belongs to Church of Jesus Christ. Not Church of Joseph Smith. If i were you, visit them and listen to them talking and rejoicing of Christ.

[hadmebefore]

You love changng the issue and offer nothing to support "your" theory that Mormons are not Christians.

[filoIII]

I've got more mormons saying Jesus was the product of sex between the mormon god and mary

[WayneTheWriter]

Verbal, but where the text?

[WayneTheWriter]

Nope. If Joseph Smith is more important than Jesus, then we should have named the Church as "The Church of Joseph Smith of Latter Day Saints". Jesus must be really important to Joseph to name the Church after the Saviour of mankind.

[filoIII]

wayne. i just quoted your book the journal of discourses. you gonna go against your book?

[hadmebefore]

your quote that you like to post says nothing about saying what Jospeh Smith did is anywhere near as important as what Christ did. If then what Joseph smith did is as important as to say that about him, how much more so do Mormons view what Christ did for us.

Thanks for pointing out that Mormons trully are Christians I couldnt have put it better myself.

[WayneTheWriter]

filoll.. Nope I am not against the book. I am only against what is is MISUNDERSTOOD. I've read what he has said before and I knew what he meant, but there's not a single line that says "he is more important than Jesus".

[tastefulphrasing]

I completely agree with this. Im a Mormon fan, I think they are great people, out of every place I have ever lived, the Mormon people by far treated me the best, BUT they have got to focus their attention on who is truly important.

[peaceliberty4all]

If you know your bible so well you should fear and tremble for the lies you are spreading. Christ is mentioned more in the Book of Mormon than the bible. You cannot judge what our church believes by the actions or words of the members and keep in mind many of its members are converts coming from other religions. I was born and raised in the church my testimonies are always about christ and rarely do I mention Joseph Smith. Are you going to discount the bible bcuz of the children of Israel?

[filoIII]

the new agers speak of christ, but the christ of the new age and the mormn cult is NOT the Christ of the Bible.

[peaceliberty4all]

So who is the Christ of the Bible? Since you claim I don't know him.

[filoIII]

Col 1:13-16 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:--I have more

[peaceliberty4all]

Col 1:13-16 Ummm that is the Christ we believe in and worship. Please take time to learn more about our church before spreading false accusations.

[filoIII]

you liar. mormons do NOT believe that Jesus is the Creator of the universe like the Bible says. mormons believe Jesus is a created being like his brother satan. i'm plenty familiar w/ your cult. i''ll even learn you a few things if you'll open your heart to the Jesus of the Bible

[peaceliberty4all]

filollll - You apparently know nothing of our church as we do believe and teach that Christ did create the world under the direction of the Father of whom he is the only begotten son in the flesh. DO NOT CALL ME A LIAR! I could care less if people believe what we believe I am just sick of all the lies being spread about what we believe by ignorant hateful people!

[filoIII]

peaceliberty4all-- if you and the mormon church dont tell the WHOLE truth about your beliefs, and try to fool people you have Christian beliefs, that's a WHOLE lie and you're on your way to hell w/ gasoline drawers on. if you dont believe Jesus is God, i want nothing to do w/ you once you reject the truth I try to bring to you.

[peaceliberty4all]

Perhaps you are not making yourself clear because what I said was true. Is your problem that we believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are 3 seperate beings? If so your accusation was still false because as I stated we believe Christ created the world under the direction of the Father so I am not sure what your issue on that matter is.

[hadmebefore]

WOW, if you really did know Mormon doctrine as well as you like to brag that you do you just may know something.

Is it Christian to call someone a liar when you have no idea what your talking about? I think not, I see no Christianity in your words.

[filoIII]

no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. Every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance I cannot go there without his consent. He reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. (Journal of Discourses vol. 7, p. 289) i accept your apology

[WayneTheWriter]

Hi Filoll. I am a Mormon. I would like to clarify something. Yes we do believe that Jesus is the creator of the universe. Jesus is created as well. Jesus is first created and the rest of us, (including Satan) are created, then later on, Jesus created the universe under the God's direction. I hope it make sense. Cheers.

[filoIII]

i thank you for coming out and admitting you're not Christians. at least you were honest on this issue. strange how you ignore this verse Mt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us this says mary was a virgin and Jesus is God. but then again mormons believe the god of this earth, who was once a man, came and had sex w/ mary and that Jesus is a created being. thanks again

[WayneTheWriter]

Where the EXACTLY quote from ANY of the Church books did say that God had sex with Mary?

[filoIII]

Joseph Fielding Smith,10th Prophet of the Mormon Church"They tell us the Book of Mormon states that Jesus was begotten of the Holy Ghost.I challenge that statement. The Book of Mormon teaches No Such Thing! Neither does the Bible!" (Doctrines of SalvationVol1:18)-The birth of the Savior was as natural as are the births of our children;it was the result of natural action.He partook of flesh and blood- was begotten of his Father, as we are of our fathers(Brigham Young, Journal ofDiscourses8:115

[WayneTheWriter]

I said "Where the EXACT quote about the SEX?!

Now you're telling me it was the Holy Ghost. Jesus WAS born as you were born.

Now..back to the subject. Where the word "Sexual intercourse" mentioned?

[filoIII]

i got your own beloved prophets stating Jesus, was born after God, at least the mormon god, procreated w/ mary. Inasmuch as God was the first husband to her, it may be that He only gave her to be the wife of Joseph while in the mortal state, and that He intended after the resurrection to again take her as one of his own wives to raise up immortal spirits in eternity. (Orson Pratt, The Seer, page 158)

[WayneTheWriter]

Again, no mention of sex. I know God gave Mary Jesus. All Christian knows that. So..how? Again, the "S" word is not mentioned. Give me an exact quote where it says "sex". Thanks

[filoIII]

For our present purposessuffice it to say that our Lord was born of a virginwhich is fitting andproperand also NATURAL since the Father of the Child was an immortal Being(Bruce McConkieThe Promised Messiahpg.466).

In other words, if Joseph had sex with Mary she would not have been a virgin, but since God had sex with Mary, she remains a virgin.

By "Virgin birth", Mormons mean that no mortal human had sex with Mary, but since God had sex with Mary, and He is immortal, she remains a virgin!

[WayneTheWriter]

So.. how is she still is a virgin then? Your logic is failing me. It is natural for her to give birth. It is a natural birth and being pregnant is natural. Born of VIRGIN you say? So, no sex involved. Full stop.

[SuperStankful]

@filoIII youre right the real jesus was a straight asshole. hey anyone know the number for this show? got some contempt for mormons i would like to channel out.

[jjamesstark]

I saw a Mormon punch a guy once. That church is a bunch of lies!...

Fast and Testimony meetings aren't the best place to hear sound doctrine. Shawn should know that.

[KnightRunner777]

I love that he is straight forward. No games. Christ alone needs to be glorified! If your not praising Jesus all the time, your wrong! Not that you cannot talk about others but when they become a topic above the Lord, there is a problem. Just like Christian Science and Marry Baker Eddy. Rediculous.

[ksurick]

What an outright lie!!! Then why isn't is called the Church of Joseph Smith? Mormons praise Joseph Smith for being chosen by God to restore the true church of Christ back to the earth but in NO WAY do they hold him as high as The Savior. My mother has 3 pictures on the wall in her living room,one of the prophets, one of Joseph Smith and one of Jesus.....she will not hang the ones of the prophets or Joseph Smith higher than Our Savior......they are on different levels and Mormons know this!!

[testskriftene]

If I dont trust in the things Joseph said.. but is a true follower of Jesus, and sacrifice everything for him, could I live with God in the celestial kingdom?.. Could I be a member of the LDS church?

[WayneTheWriter]

No, you don't sacrifice things for Joseph Smith, sacrifice for Jesus, just like every mormons do. Joseph Smith was just a prophet.

[jackjohnsonsonson]

@testskriftene you know Adolf Hitler believed himself a great christian. Adolf was trying to serve god his whole life getting revenge on the jews for god. Its not fair that Adolf might go a little lower than the average person though he was a great follower of jesus and a great christian trying to serve god his whole life.

[WayneTheWriter]

ksucrick is right. Visit a mormon's home. You will see a picture of Jesus Christ.

[filoIII]

and that's idolarty and graven images. i'm sure the pics have Jesus w/ long hair. but He didnt have long hair

[latterdaymystic]

@ksurick They sing "Praise to the Man" (Joseph Smith) way too much. They praise the "faithful" (were they not foolish though) pioneers who followed a evil murderer to a desert place so he could molest girls in secret and built up an army to protect himself from the government and mobs of decent people. That is religion???

[lilbeaveymac]

@ksurick well thats the problem,what an insult to even put men even on the same wall as Jesus.

whether they are so called" prophets" or not

[kalmikari]

Read Doctrine and covenants 135:3.

"Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it."

[LehiTOTS]

I'm pretty sure that every testimony given (the 9 and all the other ones) all closed "in the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen." I'm not good at math, but I would have to say that you lied.

[testskriftene]

But they did not talk about Jesus... they just "closed in the name"...

[lilbeaveymac]

@LehiTOTS they say that at the end because its the protocol.

[HomesliceDrummer]

I don't think I've heard Joseph Smith mentioned in sacrament meeting for 3 or 4 months now. Though, I do recall a time or two when Joseph Smith was was mentioned frequently in Testimony Meeting with very little mention of the savior. However, That is zero basis for saying we praise JS over Christ. Ridiculous. The whole reason for going to church is taking the sacrament, which is to honor Christ's atonement and death for our sins. And to renew the covenants we have made with God.

[CaptCaboose1]

It's too bad most mormons don't know the truth about joseph smith and how the whole religion came about. He will always be more important as long as the mormons keep teaching it that way.

[april1912]

That is kinda true. I'm Mormon and I do know the REAL truth behind Joseph Smith's past. I do think that the church should present the true history. My grandparents are under the impression that the church doesn't lie to us, but every religion has something to hide. Howeverso, in the teachings, Joseph is not more important than Christ, but some Mormons make it seem that way. But it is not taught in the current church that Joseph is more important than Christ.

[CaptCaboose1]

Matthew 7:15 reminds me of Smith. The next time you attend sacrament meeting, listen and let me know how many times you hear someones testimony saying Christs name or proclaiming how they worship and live in him. It used to drive me crazy to see parents wispering in their little ones ear on what to say. No one should be able to bear their testimony until they have their own. God Bless

[april1912]

You are right and I like how you respect my opinion unlike most people. Christ is the center of the Church's teachings, but Joseph is mentioned so often by us because (in LDS teachings, I odn't actually believe this) he brought the fullness of Christ's gospel to the Earth, and because it is this restored gospel and The Bible that we believe it the restoration, thus Joseph Smith is mentioned alot.

[ChristopherMillz]

To Mormons, Joseph Smith is a prophet. He is considered to be much like Moses was to the Jews. He is spoken of often because he was the prophet of the restoration. However, he is not our Savior and Mormons do not worship him.

[testskriftene]

To mormons, Joseph Smith was a false prophet.. And remember, that OT prophets are done away with.. Now, every believing christian can become prophet (not in the LDS way) (prophets are those who prophecy, or speak word of comfort etc.. read the NT!).. Young, old, men, women can be prophets (as told in the NT)... Remember that the NT had many prophets (also women)

[ChristopherMillz]

lol. Of course, everyone can receive PERSONAL REVELATION. Testimony of Christ is the "spirit of prophecy". HOWEVER, there were men ordained with authority to receive REVELATION FOR THE CHURCH. Christ created a structural foundation for Christianity. These were prophets and apostles (Ephesians 3:3-5). Not all of the "prophets" that you are referring to actually held a position in the Church. Read the NT?! I have numerous times. One of the reasons I became LDS. :)

[testskriftene]

You say only men can be prophets (in the NT way..)? Apostles had to be eyewitnesses of Jesus... Have the LDS apostles seen Jesus resurrected?

I dont see that Jesus established an organisation.. it is only believers.. not membership etc

[ChristopherMillz]

You are wrong. The verse you are using to say apostles had to be "eyewitnesses" only says that they are witnesses of Christ. Not eyewitnesses. If that was the case, then you would have to take the rest of the verse that they were eyewitnesses of Christ from baptism to ascension. This would mean that Judas Iscariot, Paul, Barnabas and possibly a few others were not really apostles.

[ChristopherMillz]

Your theory comes from Acts 1:22 I am assuming.

[testskriftene]

All apostles had seen Jesus...

[ChristopherMillz]

Not all had seen Him from baptism to resurrection. Judas died before His resurrection. Paul was converted after His ascension (was not there for His baptism or ascension). Furthermore, there is no evidence that Barnabas saw Him at all. If you are going to imply that Acts 1:22 means "eyewitnesses" then you have to take into account the whole verse. However, it does not say "eyewitnesses". It says witnesses that Christ was baptized and ascended into Heaven. The Holy Spirit can witness this to them

[ChristopherMillz]

The "prophetess" Anna dedicated her life to God and never left the temple. She received personal revelation as anyone can but she held no position of authority in the Church nor did she have the priesthood.

Jesus did not establish an organization? There were prophets, apostles, bishops, deacons, elders, etc. each with their own duties. No organization?

No membership? Have you ever read Romans 12:4-5? Christ's Church has members. I can give you more references if this does not suffice.

[testskriftene]

Acts 21, 9 - Only one prophet? And only male?

Romans 12, 4-5 - nothing about organisation there... all believers are one in Jesus- many with different assignments - Is Jesus an organisation?

[ChristopherMillz]

Again, women have the Holy Spirit, which gives revelation. They may testify of Christ, which is the spirit of prophecy. They may be a prophet in that sense. The women you are referring to did not hold a position in the Church. They did receieve revelation for the Church. It is the same today.

[ChristopherMillz]

Is Jesus an organization? What kind of question is that? He is one person. However He has many followers. He gives revelation to His apostles on how to run the Church. Romans 12:4-5 speak of all being members. So, differing from what you said, there is a membership in Christ's Church. Do you know what the definition of an organization is?"A group of persons organized for a purpose." Anyone reading the NT with common sense would not deny that the Church that Christ established is an organization.

[testskriftene]

Does it say "members" in the english translation? Judas had seen Jesus...

[ChristopherMillz]

you're not paying attention are you?

[osmiolos]

where would we be without Shawn here LYING about the LDS religion?

I guess he is saved only by grace so he can lie ALL he wants!

[justcary]

I guess he is saved only by grace so he can lie ALL he wants!))

You so misunderstand grace, We are not saved by grace that we can continue willfully in sin.

After salvation, grace is there for us to help us overcome sin.. Salvation only begins at accepting Jesus, sanctification or growth in grace and knowledge never stops..

The difference in judgment is we are now judged as children, not as the world..

Christianity is a relationship, not a religion.

[testskriftene]

You should research justifictaion and sanctification...

[uSoBayArea]

no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter

into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was

taken from the earth to the winding−up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of

Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are......."Brigham Young"

Self-Promotion at its best

[testskriftene]

Is grace there only to help us overcome the sin? Can you, ever say, that you dont sin anymore?

[bmjesus08]

mormon's need truth but they think they're in the truth because most of what shawn talks about is prob not even mentioned!

[uSoBayArea]

I attended a LDS sacrament meeting 3 months ago where they had 3 young adults preparing for there missions. The 2 boys and 1 girl each spoke. The 2 boys spoke of Joseph Smith for there entire talk, and only mentioned Jesus Christ at the end of there talk, like ending a prayer. When the Young girl spoke, she shocked the members. She professed that when she is on her mission she is going to speak and praise Jesus Christ throughout her whole mission.