Christianity and the Tooth Fairy - John Lennox at The Veritas Forum at UCLA, 2011

[terrigreen100]

so many disagreements concerning God, it would of been proven wrong if indeed it was wrong. The bible alone if fable would of been found out by now......

[Tuber77]

I have respect for any atheist who shows respect towards other people point of view. I hate Anti-Theist who think that its ok to treats people of faith like crap. When its your its my way or the highway. The you have become a terrorist of the mind. Science is a tool. Its not infallible. It can be change. In fact there's not enough of evidence to say there is or isn't a god. Humans probably only know 2% of all that is knowable. Any sane people wouldn't take a stance on such little evidence.

[trealboihottie]

WOW, I respect both of these men so much. John Lennox especially because I'm a christian, who aspires to someday be a man of science and mathematics. He is just purely inspirational and to hear him expound upon the most controversial questions of this world, motivates me to someday be a person of that stature, and expertise. Very engaging video and VertisForum, you get two thumbs up from me.

[CumSeNumesteMelodia]

the "veritas" will never die.

[kubrox91]

1:18:14, just seeing that professor is humorous.

[H0tkebab]

Is Lowenstein an Atheist? If so I take my hat off to him, hes got some guts (excuse the pun).

[scar504]

"I don't know how someone who doesn't know can know that I don't know."

Good statement.

[sukruoosten]

end for the unbeliever there are too many questions opened

why are we here

where do we go to

what is our purpose

people like Hitler dont get punished, where is justice in this godless world

it only darkness the world to say god is not real

we trust in him how made our souls en will eventually judge us

even though we commit sin we can bee saved through Jesus Christ

so lets pray en bow down to the judger Jesus en to the father god the creator

en hope he will come SOOOOOOOOOOOON en free us ALL

[sukruoosten]

it takes FAITH to believe matter en energy can create life

i mean micro evolution ok i dont mind that because even the bible confirms that

but to say without god everything came

thats also a belief

im amazed john gave very good points as always

but as of the part of pain en suffering

he could have added

god doesn't cure en nether does he curse anymore

end plus in the end he will bring total justice for those how are in pain sin

any problem only he can solve it

[iftheyonlynew]

this was a pleasure to watch

[Roper122]

An hour and a half to answer the question of whether god is like the tooth fairy?

I'll do it in 3 seconds.

The answer is YES.

This is an exercise in backslapping

[funnystarchild]

@Roper122 A statement like that with a lack of evidence is just ignorant. That answer is just your assumption.

[Roper122]

@funnystarchild ... Statements with a lack of evidence???? You just described the entire video.

Anytime you've got any evidence... let us know..

Otherwise... like I said... 90 minutes of time wasting and backslapping.

[funnystarchild]

@Roper122 You dont have any evidence that God doesnt exist. Thats what I ment. Did you even watch the video? Or did you just hear the first sentences and got upset and started to go against them?

[Roper122]

@funnystarchild ..Let's try this again..I'll spell it out.

The question wasn't " Does god 100% not exist? "

It was

Is god like the tooth fairy?

I said - Yes.

Not sure what you're talking about.

But if there's anything in the video you would like explained..feel free to ask : )

[funnystarchild]

@Roper122 Its no idea arguing the existance of God to an atheist like this. You have your strong belief that he doesnt. I belive he does. Thats just how it is. Atheism is a belief and a religion in itself.

[Roper122]

@funnystarchild .... Well, that's a neat out, but not true.

Regardless, I'm happy to stand by any toothfairy comparisons.

And I'm happy to explain why atheism isn't even close to a religion.

But you already know that...it's just not convenient.

[funnystarchild]

@Roper122 Oh please. Atheism follow their beliefs with strong conviction and this new atheism movement with richard dawkins in the front looks nothing more then a religious movement.

[Roper122]

@funnystarchild " Looks "???

- like I said, that's an easy way to try to get off the hook.

But it's not true...as the saying goes...atheism is a religion, like bald is a hair Color

But it's funny, the worst insult the religious throw at atheism...is that it's a religion.

Oh the irony.

[funnystarchild]

@Roper122 That atheism is a religion is not an insult. Its just logical facts. Im not trying to insult you. Im just saying as it is. And furthermore. The word religion is not an insult. Its just atheists that doesnt like that word. I detect no irony whatsoever.

[Roper122]

@funnystarchild " I detect no irony whatsoever. "

- I know you don't.. that's why it's ironic.

It's laughable to call Atheism a religion, it's one of the most basic attempts to deflect criticism away from actual religions.

If you're happy to reduce your religion to something with no rules, no stories, no hierarchy, no observances, no devotion, no rituals, etc etc ..

I wonder.. is agnosticism a religion?

It must be.. by your definition. : )

[MakingSandwich1]

@Roper122 The answer is NO. There's no evidence to support the existence of the toothy fairy. Even the people who "believe" in the tooth fairy don't actually believe in the toothy fairy. Don't believe me? How many people have died for their "belief" in the tooth fairy? None. How many people have died for their belief in Jesus? Well, Christians were persecuted by the Romans and Jews for 300 years, so I'd say quite a lot of people.

[Roper122]

@MakingSandwich1 " There's no evidence to support the existence of the toothy fairy. "

- Wrong.. there's no evidence that you accept.

" How many people have died for their "belief" in the tooth fairy? None. "

- How many people have tried to kill over the tooth fairy?...??? Anyone??

" How many people have died for their belief in Jesus? "

- How many muslims have died? Hell, they died at David Koresh's compound too.

Tooth Fairy - 1 god - 0

( see I'm logical here too ! )

[MakingSandwich1]

@Roper122 You haven't given anyone a reason to believe in the tooth fairy. So your first statement is a fallacy. You also fail to provide an example of anyone who has died for their belief in the tooth fairy. You simply attempt to point out that so-called "Christians" have killed people who disagree with them. I can just as easily point out the atrocities committed by atheists. It's estimated that Mao, Stalin and Hitler killed a combined total of at least 84 million people Atheism - 0 Theism - 1

[Roper122]

@MakingSandwich1 " You haven't given anyone a reason to believe in the tooth fairy "

- That's pretty similar to god.. : )

" You also fail to provide an example of anyone who has died for their belief in the tooth fairy "

- I pointed out... no one has ever needed to.

" You simply attempt to point out that so-called "Christians" have killed people "

- No I didn't! Can't you read?

You don't know what a fallacy is, and you have real trouble understanding an argument.

It's depressing.

[MakingSandwich1]

@Roper122 So am I supposed to believe that nothing created the universe? If God didn't create the universe, what did? If the universe had a beginning and the universe is all there is, then you're asking people to believe that nothing created the universe. Atheism immediately falls flat on its face when it comes to justifying itself.

No one needs to die for the toothy fairy because no one believes in the tooth fairy.

[Roper122]

@MakingSandwich1 " If God didn't create the universe, what did? "

- Again? Is this like your default defence? Do you think if you say it enough times it'll prove something?

I'd explain why it doesn't help... but you'd just ignore it.

" No one needs to die for the toothy fairy because no one believes in the tooth fairy. "

- What you mean to say is.. no one has ever been put in the position of having to die for a belief in the tooth fairy. Of course that wouldn't prove anything anyway : )

[MakingSandwich1]

@Roper122 I'm simply showing you that it's impossible for atheism to be true. Believing in atheism requires me to believe that literally NOTHING created EVERYTHING. That's simply not going to happen and this just shows how irrational atheism is.

No one dies for something they KNOW is a lie. You know it's a lie that the tooth fairy exists, so you're not going to even consider dying for it. If the apostles were simply lying about Jesus coming back from the dead, why were they so willing to die?

[Roper122]

@MakingSandwich1 " Believing in atheism requires me to believe that literally NOTHING created EVERYTHING "

- No it doesn't.. but you refuse to admit that. It's cowardly. You know why you are wrong.

" No one dies for something they KNOW is a lie"

- The die for a lie argument is a Lee Strobel favorite and is easily rebutted.

All religions have martyrs.

In this case...

You have no idea how many knew it was a lie

You'll find it very hard to show that they even died for it.

Feel free to try

[MakingSandwich1]

@Roper122 Atheism does require people to believe that nothing can create everything. Your lack of a natural explanation makes this even more obvious than it already is.

The apostles were eyewitnesses to Jesus coming back from the dead. They claimed to have actually seen Jesus after he had been crucified. Why did they claim to have seen Jesus? Why were the apostles prepared to die for claiming to be eyewitnesses if they were lying? You've answered none of these questions.

[Roper122]

@MakingSandwich1 - OK.. whatever.. for everyone who can read... atheism DOES NOT require that you believe anything other than the fact that we do not know. 

To claim that a lack of explanation means any supernatural claim is correct, is like claiming THOR makes lightning.. it 's a failed argument. I won't explain it again.

" Why did they claim to have seen Jesus? "

- Why do any religion's followers make wild claims?

Oh.. and show me which apostles died knowing it was a lie?

[MakingSandwich1]

@Roper122 You're saying that we need more information. Why? We know the universe had a beginning. We know that time, space, matter and energy didn't exist until the universe existed. So if time, space, matter and energy didn't exist, then nothing existed according to atheists. Only something that exists outside of time, space, matter and energy could create time, space, matter and energy. This 'something' is what theists call God. Your argument fails.

[Roper122]

@MakingSandwich1 " You're saying that we need more information. Why? "

- No.. you're absolutely right.. why should we need more information?

Why should even bother to inquire.. we know enough.

We already know exactly how everything works.

Funny.... the people who worshipped Thor thought the same way.

Why do we need more information? We know where lightning comes from.

Besides.. learning about quantum physics, and relativity... that's all pretty much what we expected.

Nothing odd there

[MakingSandwich1]

@Roper122 You don't understand the argument. What else do we need to know? We know nothing existed before the Big Bang, which means atheists want people to believe that nothing caused the Big Bang. Nothing existed other than nothing. Only nothing could've caused the Big Bang according to atheists. Space didn't exist. Time didn't exist. Matter didn't exist. Energy didn't exist. So nothing existed. That's all you'll ever discover.

[Roper122]

@MakingSandwich1 " What else do we need to know? "

- Well.. let's see...

We need to know..

Whether causation even works without a temporal relationship

Whether absolute " nothing " is even possible

Whether the non-intuitive nature of quantum physics provides more answers

Whether virtual particles provide a model of creation

Whether our problems with infinity are simply paradoxes that have a solution

Whether there are other universe with different laws

But you know all this.. Right?

[MakingSandwich1]

@Roper122 What exists outside of time, space, matter and energy? According to atheists, nothing exists outside of time, space, matter and energy. So, again, atheists want people to believe that nothing caused the Big Bang.

[MakingSandwich1]

@Roper122 According to theists, God exists outside of space, time, matter and energy. I like how you dodged my question, I wanted to know what atheists believe in that exists outside of space, time, matter and energy. You failed to answer my question.

[Roper122]

@MakingSandwich1 " According to theists, God exists outside of space, time, matter and energy. I like how you dodged my question "

- According to theists? What about ' according to Norse mythology ' ? Just as reliable.

I haven't once dodged your question... atheists don't pretend to know.. theists do.

" You need to explain Jesus' empty tomb. "

- What happened to ' die for a lie '?

Oh well... no problem... prove that there was an empty tomb in the first place.

[MakingSandwich1]

@Roper122 There's no proof any of the Norse gods exist. Polytheism is false and can't stand up to scrutiny, just like atheism. You're continuing to dodge the question of how the universe came into existence. "I don't know." is simply a pathetic excuse for you to dodge my questions. We know enough about the universe to draw conclusions.

It's a historical fact that Jesus' body went missing. No historian denies this. What's disputed is how it went missing.

[Roper122]

@MakingSandwich1 " There's no proof any of the Norse gods exist." - There's no proof ANY gods exist. The proof for THOR was a lack of a natural explanation for lightning Sound familiar? " We know enough about the universe to draw conclusions." - We knew enough about lightning to draw conclusions too! " It's a historical fact that Jesus' body went missing. " - No it's not.. it was in the bible - that's it. Next? MakingSandwich1 3 minutes ago

[MakingSandwich1]

@Roper122 There is proof. Whatever begins to exist must have a cause for its existence. The universe began to exist. Therefore, the universe must have a cause for its existence. The attributes of the cause of the universe such as being timeless and existing outside of space are the attributes of God. Therefore, the cause of the universe is God. If Jesus' body hadn't gone missing the apostles couldn't go around claiming that Jesus had been resurrected. So, obviously, Jesus' body went missing.

[Roper122]

@MakingSandwich1 " Whatever begins to exist must have a cause for its existence "

- FINALLY, you've given up and changed arguments... only took 100 posts.

" If Jesus' body hadn't gone missing the apostles couldn't go around claiming that Jesus had been resurrected "

- and where are all the records from the time immediately following his death saying that they did?

And if they were all later killed ( supposedly ) why were they not killed then and there if what they were saying was true? Hmmm

[MakingSandwich1]

@Roper122 You still haven't refuted my argument. Atheism is still as impossible as ever as it requires the belief that nothing created everything.

According to New Testament scholars the New Testament of the Bible is at least 99% accurate. So you can't say "Where's the proof?" when it's right in front of you.

What do you mean 'supposedly'? 11/12 apostles died terrible, inhumane deaths when all they had to do was renounce their faith.

[Roper122]

@MakingSandwich1 " it requires the belief that nothing created everything."

- Nope.. but that has been explained to you so many times that you're just wasting time now.

" the Bible is at least 99% accurate. "

- You're doing comedy now ( Koranic scholars go for 100% )

" 11/12 apostles died terrible, inhumane deaths when all they had to do was renounce their faith."

- Show me... You're big on proof. List me all the " die for a lie " people.

You'll find it's not as easy as you think.

[MakingSandwich1]

@Roper122 Nope. You still haven't provided any sort of plausible natural explanation. Which means you either believe God created the universe or nothing did.

You didn't even refute my 2nd argument and I'm not discussing the flaws of the Qur'an.

You're deluded. 'Die for a lie'? What does that even mean or have to do with anything?

[Roper122]

@MakingSandwich1 " You still haven't provided any sort of plausible natural explanation."

- Whatever.. you've lost that argument long ago... move on.

" You didn't even refute my 2nd argument and I'm not discussing the flaws of the Qur'an."

- Koran / Bible.. whatever, both claim 100% accuracy, both are made up. 'Die for a lie'? What does that even mean or have to do with anything?"

- ' No one dies for something they KNOW is a lie " - your words... have you forgotten already?

[MakingSandwich1]

@Roper122 So you have no explanation which makes my position true and you're powerless to deny that without an explanation.

You know nothing about the Bible and I'm not even going to waste space explaining it to you.

If the apostles knew that Jesus' resurrection was a lie, they wouldn't have been willing to die for it. This gives anyone a valid reason to believe in Jesus' resurrection.

[Roper122]

@MakingSandwich1 " So you have no explanation which makes my position true"

- I've explained how that position is totally wrong.. you have given up.

" You know nothing about the Bible and I'm not even going to waste space explaining it to you."

- So you can't defend that either.. that's two.

" If the apostles knew that Jesus' resurrection was a lie, they wouldn't have been willing to die for it. "

- And I challenged you to show this.. you can't.. that's three.

You're not good at this

[MakingSandwich1]

@Roper122 You don't understand much, do you? You can't say anything is wrong without first knowing what is right. So if my explanation is wrong what's the right explanation? You haven't provided any good explanation and I doubt you will.

The Bible is filled with fulfilled prophecies that have next to no chance in coming true. The odds of Jesus fulfilling 8 prophecies are 1 in 10 to the 17th power. Jesus fulfilled over 270 prophecies.

St. Peter was crucified upside down.

[Roper122]

@MakingSandwich1 " You can't say anything is wrong without first knowing what is right."

- Give it up. You don't know what is right either... so by your own argument.. you're wasting your time.

" Jesus fulfilled over 270 prophecies."

- So did nostradamus ; )

" St. Peter "

- Not in the bible he wasn't, in fact there's no evidence that Peter ever even went to Rome. Still Nero was crucifying christians after great fire... regardless of claims about jesus.. 64 years after he died.

Next?

[MakingSandwich1]

@Roper122 My argument is still valid until refuted. I know only a Being that exists outside of time, space, matter and energy could create the universe. That Being is what theists call God.

Nostradamus was so vague in his writings that you can read anything you want into them.

The Bible does record the death of James in Acts 12:2.

[Roper122]

@MakingSandwich1 " My argument is still valid until refuted "

- So's mine. Just give up on this .. you don't understand that it's a failed argument.

" Nostradamus was so vague in his writings "

- Hmmmm, nothing like the bible at all ; )

" The Bible does record the death of James in Acts 12:2. "

- Yup.. the only one... put to death by the sword by Herod... like one sentence?

No mention of whether he had any option... none.

And that's it... that's the whole argument? * yawn

[MakingSandwich1]

@Roper122 You've provided no argument. You simply say "That's false." and don't elaborate any further.

Read Psalm 22:18 and Matthew 27:35.

There are accounts of other apostles becoming martyrs. Paul, for example, was tortured and beheaded by the Roman emperor Nero. It's interesting that Paul used to persecute Christians but all of a sudden was willing to be beaten, stoned, tortured and murdered for Jesus.

[Roper122]

@MakingSandwich1 " You've provided no argument."

- I've pointed out that your argument is an argument from ignorance ( for the 1000th time )

Unlike you I do not feel the need to pretend I know something I do not.

" Read Psalm 22:18 and Matthew 27:35."

- Great... boring and pointless.. a prophecy in a book is fulfilled by the same book.. surprise, surprise : )

" Paul, for example "

- Paul never saw jesus risen. Sorry...read your bible. : )

Next?

[MakingSandwich1]

@Roper122 It's not an argument from ignorance at all. I'm taking what we currently know and showing how it's impossible for a natural explanation to be plausible.

You're ignoring that the prophecy was fulfilled. Jesus fulfilled this prophecy at least 588 years after the Book of Psalm was written.

The Bible says that Paul was a persecutor of Christians, then he claimed to have seen Jesus and all of a sudden he was an apostle willing to die for what he had previously hated.

[Roper122]

@MakingSandwich1 " I'm taking what we currently know and showing how it's impossible for a natural explanation to be plausible."

- Except you can't show that... because you do not know.  Give it up, move on to something else.

" the prophecy was fulfilled."

- The evidence of which, is in the same book that prophecy was in, in the first place.. hmmmm

" he claimed to have seen Jesus"

- Mohammed claimed to see god too.. Claims don't mean squat. Paul never saw jesus risen.

Next?

[MakingSandwich1]

@Roper122 I have shown that. I've shown that space, time, matter and energy came into existence at the Big Bang. So you're left with 2 options; either God caused the Big Bang or nothing caused the Big Bang.

The Bible had over 40 different authors, was written of a period of 1,500 years in 3 different languages across 3 different continents. The fact that the writings of these authors are in the same book means nothing.

Your point? Muhammad didn't look death in the eye for his beliefs.

[Roper122]

@MakingSandwich1 " I have shown that "

- You've shown nothing.. you don't know how to mount an argument, you don't understand the fallacies you're committing... you think by saying something wrong enough times you'll eventually be right.

" The Bible had over 40 different authors "

- None of whom were aware of prophecies.. wait a minute...

" Your point? Muhammad didn't look death in the eye for his beliefs."

- Muslims wouldn't agree.

But, you cannot claim that Paul saw jesus.. he didn't.

[MakingSandwich1]

@Roper122 That's not what I think at all. I think your lack of any argument against my previous statement shows how weak atheism is.

You're using a very poor argument against the Bible. We know the New Testament is extremely accurate which means we have assurance that the Gospel writers recorded the events as they had occurred.

Muhammad was poisoned. No one shoved him off of a tower then beat him to death, no one whipped him then tied him to a cross, he never asked to be crucified upside down

[Roper122]

@MakingSandwich1 ...Still wrong.

- Whether atheism or Buddhism, or Scientology has an explanation of anything...does NOT make your story correct. Get that through your head.

- the bible was written and edited by people who knew about vague prophecies and had an interest in seeing them through.

- Paul did not see Jesus...keep to the point. There were several attempts to kill Mohammed, but that's not the point.

He never saw Jesus either..

[MakingSandwich1]

@Roper122 It's pointless to even continue to debate with you. Your entire argument is based upon skepticism, biased assumptions and your own personal opinion. I've presented facts that are universally accepted among cosmologists, historians and scholars. You don't care about what's true, you only care about fulfilling your own biased agenda which any educated person can see through easily. A close-minded person is basically a person with no mind at all.

[Roper122]

@MakingSandwich1 ..Let's recap...

1 - I've clearly explained that you are using an Argument from Ignorance, which is a common logical fallacy. You have no response, either because you can't or you don't understand the concept..which makes it hard.

2 - You've pointed out that the bible is 99% accurate.. a ludicrous unsupported claim, which you can't back up.

3 - You tried to use apostles dying for a lie... I asked you to back that up... so far...1 apostle stabbed.

Everything you try.. fails

[tallliza]

@Roper122 There is a christian apologetics cite, which in anutshell says this. We should take the martyrdom of the apostles with a pinch a salt, since the stories were written at about 300 AD by a bishop. Although we have no reason to believe this bishop made up those stories, we can`t comfirm that they are true(Sic).

[Roper122]

@tallliza .. The martyrdom of the Apostles is on very shaky ground... people just assume it to be true.

Regardless, it also assumes that they were of sound mind to begin with... something which is also highly questionable.

[CJFCarlsson]

@Roper122 How high can you questionable?

[tallliza]

@MakingSandwich1 The bible is the perfect word of a loving god; It says; Witches,kill them.homosexuals,kill them,fortunetellers,kill them, those hitting their father, kill them, those who curse their parents, kill them. adulterers, kill them, fornicators, kill them, those who don`t listen to priests, kill them, those of other religions, kill them, non-believers, kill them, false prophets, kill them, those who work on the sabbath, kill them. This is called the wolrd`s masterpiece of morality.

[MakingSandwich1]

@tallliza I'm not going to even attempt to respond to any of this. Paul Copan has already written an entire book about God's commandments in the Old Testament called "Is God a Moral Monster?" If you were concerned at all with the commandments God gave in the Old Testament, you'd simply buy his book. I refuse to attempt to answer your questions when you don't care about finding the answers to them.

[tallliza]

@MakingSandwich1 I assume you have nothing to refute the claim that your god( of the O.T.) is a monster, sadist.

[MakingSandwich1]

@tallliza You just proved my point. I said you don't care about finding the answers to your questions about Old Testament ethics. And your whole comment says to me "You just gave me a book to read that will answer my questions, but I don't care."

[tallliza]

@MakingSandwich1 There is a christian apologetics site , who clearly warns about taking the martyrdom of the apostles as proven. Those stories about he martyrdom were written 300 years after the facts. Judge yourself how credible they can be ?

[tallliza]

@MakingSandwich1 The Bible is filled with fulfilled prophecies . What bible do you have? you must be kidding. Let`s take the most important so called prophecy, about the comming of the Messiah. The prophecy says, they will call him Emmanual. Did they? No There goes your prophecy. Besides what`s the point of making a prophecy some 800 years before the event ? If I predict the mist fantastic event for the year 2,711, who is going to give a shit ?

[MakingSandwich1]

@tallliza Your whole argument is both embarrassing and pathetic. The Bible says, plain as day, Immanuel means "God with us". The Old and New Testaments are filled with the "He shall be called" phrase. This is a common way of saying that people would refer to Jesus in various ways. "His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6). Immanuel is a description of who Jesus is. You'd know this if you would actually think.

[tallliza]

@MakingSandwich1 Yes, your argument is pathetic. Than Jesus is not his name either, because it means "Joshua saves." Every name had originally a meaning. When the prophet says he will be called Jesus, there is no way to intrepret this text in any other way. The prophet does not give YOUR explantion. One would assume that a prophecy of this importance would at least be accurate and incontestable.

[MakingSandwich1]

@tallliza Not a convincing response at all. The Old Testament describes many of the titles and names people would know Jesus by. You don't actually think when you read the Bible. You just stare at the words like a mindless zombie, and you don't put any amount of thought into correctly interpreting the passage.

[tallliza]

@MakingSandwich1 Jesus fulfilled ZERO prophecies. He was A jew. The jews, even today, after 2,000 years of scripture study. claim that Jesus did not fulfill any of THEIR prophecies in THEIR holy books. Who is Paul, or any other outsider to claim that he did. That`s like the Europeans claiming there is a president in the US by the name of Mac-Donald, and the Americans saying" not true". Which party is believable ?

[MakingSandwich1]

@tallliza Another terrible argument. An entire book of the New Testament was written to the Jews showing them that Jesus was truly their Messiah. Verses like Psalm 22:18 and Matthew 27:35, Isaiah 53:9 and Matthew 57-60, Isaiah 53:5-9 and 2 Corinthians 5:21 are all examples of prophecies fulfilled by Jesus.

I have nothing to gain by arguing with you. I'm not going to waste a huge amount of time arguing with someone who is simply pulling arguments out of thin air.

[tallliza]

@MakingSandwich1 When I put your nose in your own mustard. of course, all you cowards do is crawl in your corner and feigning dead like the oposum.

[Inverita1]

@Roper122 Hello, I know this is an old argument and I'm not attempting to cause an issue but you said, "The proof for Thor was a lack of a natural explanation for lightning". Many mythological gods were not the explination of elements but were hero tales showing how characters had dominion over these things. Thor didn't create lightning and lightning existed outside Thor, he was just able to use it (along with other storm elements) as a tool. (example: like Pyro in X-men is able to use fire.)

[Roper122]

@Inverita1 " Many mythological gods were not the explination of elements but were hero tales showing how characters had dominion over these things "

- Yes lightning existed without Thor, but any lightning strike can be blamed on Thor, since he directs it. Just as disease can be blamed on demons, even though germs exist without them. It's splitting hairs. Most mythologies have creation stories, Odin is one of them.

Storm directs lightning, but not like Thor does.

[Inverita1]

@Roper122 I can argue scientific lore to prove lightning harvesting/use is common. (B.Franklin) but i know that is not the point.

Conversly, I argue that Biblically there are differences between being sick, being oppressed by demons, and being possessed. Biblically sickness doesn't come from demons, that is an assumption placed by atheists who write the theology off as stories of explination. The Bible gives no account for disease origin, except maybe by God, who used plagues against enemies.

[Inverita1]

@Roper122 Also, I'd like to point out that in many mythologies people compare the Christian God to Thor or Zeus. Yet there is a formula used in almost all mythology

Creator->Elder gods->minor Gods->hybrid gods->humans

Examples

Christian: Creator YHWH->Archangels->Angels->Neph­elim->humans

or

Greek: Creator Nyx->Kronus->Zeus->Hercules-> humans

Roman: Unknown creator->Saturn->Apollo->Centa­ur->humans

There are more in the feilds other than creator, this was just a quick example.

[MakingSandwich1]

@Roper122 The apostles claimed to be eyewitnesses. In case you didn't know, an eyewitness is someone who claims to have personally witnessed an event. They claimed to have seen Jesus in his resurrected form. Why were they so willing to die for this if they were lying? You're dodging the question again and again. Why were the apostles so willing to die for Jesus? The apostles went from sadness and cowardice to happiness and bravery all after they had claimed to have seen Jesus.

[Roper122]

@MakingSandwich1 " The apostles claimed to be eyewitnesses. "

- Mohammed claimed to have flown on a flying horse.

" The apostles went from sadness and cowardice to happiness and bravery "

- Oh.. well that proves it then... *yawn

" They claimed to have seen Jesus in his resurrected form. "

- Actually that list is very short, but anyway... you need to show a list of people who definitely knew it was a lie, and were definitely killed because of this...

I'm not dodging.

[MakingSandwich1]

@Roper122 You need to explain Jesus' empty tomb. 3 days after his crucifixion, Jesus' body went missing. What happened to the body? Where'd it go?

[tallliza]

@MakingSandwich1 Why were the apostles prepared to die They didn`t. How many people were raised from the dead at Easter ? There is not a single shred of evidence for the salvation story.NONE. The earliest shred of gospel dates from decades after the supposed fact. The average lifespan in biblical times was no more tha 40 years. Thus, 10 years after Jesus death, most apostles were dead too. There is not a shred of eyewitness account.

[MakingSandwich1]

@tallliza I'll respond by saying there are so many historical errors in that comment, I'm truly convinced you're completely clueless about anything that has to do with Christianity or theism in general. I'm going to go back to the rational world now. Goodbye.

[tallliza]

@MakingSandwich1 I figure you have nothing to defend. You don`t have to admit defeat, I know. If you had something to object, you would not hesitate. Bye..

[Tsaritsyn83]

@tallliza I don't really like the antagonism I see here, but I thought I'd offer you a polite challenge. I see you challenging the historical evidence of biblical claims, and then citing your own historical evidence of biblical times in order to justify your own view of what happened here. So I might humbly ask for your to present your own evidence shreds. How do you know that the mean life expectancy in Judea in 33AD was 40 years? What was the standard deviation of this figure?

[samuellis]

Great video God bless....

[HolyRevelation]

To me, the problem of good and evil is not a problem at all.

Everyone has seen what happens to a child who always get their way, they become spoiled rotten.

Trust me, you would not want to see how mankind would act in a world were nothing bad ever happened to anyone.

Lennox rocks, takes for posting this.

[DixieDan3]

"There is no proof nor evidence of an alleged "god". There are hundreds of gods around the world and to speak as though there is only one, is not intellectually honest. As for the 'Christian' god, even if there was such an "all-creator" who punishes unbelievers with an eternal lake of fire, which it by definition "created", no honest and ethical people would want anything to do with it, unless their fear of death & promise of heaven supersedes honestly with self and others." - Dr. Chris Aable

[vakhto]

What a wonderful man John Lennox is! Humble and Sincere. My most sincere gratitude to the uploader of the video.

[Harakat123]

John Lennox is such a great and inspiring thinker. I love his humble personality. May God grant him a long life. /Greetings from Kurdistan

[txbill38]

My comment is simple and science based, we are all created be it from our parents them by theirs and so on or a tree from a seed that was from another tree all the way back to the very simple forms of life a single cell organism. Even further back to the beginning of the creation of the universe where pieces of matter crashed an formed the universe as we know it. All of this still points to an unmoved mover, a creator where did the pieces of matter come from that crashed all those millions of

[Atheitard]

goddamn atheists get dumber every tufcking day are u pricks s uffering from down sybdrome

[BassP86]

@Atheitard

As a Christian, I find it appalling that you would sink to such a low level as calling atheists such things. You need to show more love and respect to people who believe differently than you.

[DixieDan3]

@Atheitard Wow..and here I thought using your alleged "god's" name in vain (and cursing) was an abomination. Your post is a joke, and if you are serious, then your contradictory life is a bigger joke.

[drcraigvideos]

John Lennox is great as always.

[thePhantomFrank]

@drcraigvideos Christopher Hitchens is engaging in circular reasoning if he is right, you quoted 2 verses (1 Corinthians 15:4-5), yet at the time you think God did it, ok.

[rubicon1035]

Wow, this is a great discussion! Lennox and Lowenstein are great - we need more sincere dialogue like this!

[ArmageddonThruToYou]

Deep down in what little remaining spirit they have, atheists know the God of the bible is true, otherwise they would be putting on seminars and symposiums trying to convince others that the tooth fairy and Santa Claus are not real as well. The only real reason they focus on the God of the bible is they know it's true. Normal people don't argue against something they don't believe in. Enjoy your self-induced delusions while you can, because an eternally tormenting hell awaits you.

[5544john]

@ArmageddonThruToYou whoa, what kind of attitude is this?? i'm a christian and I most certainly disagree with you. can you imagine John Lennox saying something like this? im getting tired of this simple minded 'believe or burn' crap.

I apologize to atheists for 'christians' like this.

[ArmageddonThruToYou]

@5544john

It's called righteous anger. Christ exhibited as well. By the way, nobody cares what you're tired of, what you are tired of is irrelevant to anything. You're no Christian and you'll find out on the other side which will be here soon (no I'm not a Harold Camping fan). You call it "believe or burn" crap, but that's just paraphrasing what the bible actually says. If you don't believe, you will burn. You are deceived.

[AnonymousProgramer]

@ArmageddonThruToYou Christ got angry, but he corrected those he felt were wrong and drew them closer to him. I'm sure you're smart enough to know that telling someone they await an eternity of torment will not draw them to Christ. Since they don't believe the doctrines you negativity only pushes them away. It may be true, but if it ultimately does the job of pushing people away from Christ the Bible curses you. (Psalm 1:1)

[LarsTheHonest]

@AnonymousProgramer I agree with you that we shouldnt introduce people to Christianity by scaring them with eternal torment, I think that would be a mistake that might make it harder to save those people. But I don't think one will be punished by God if you make a mistake.

[LarsTheHonest]

If I went to a mall to convert people, because I loved Jesus, but Im very ignorant of science and hard questions etc, and some poeple I talk to in the mall challenge me by posing difficult questions that I cannot answer, which would probably cause those people to be less likely to become saved, then I still dont think I would be punished. That wouldnt make sense, you are punished by the motives of your actions, not the actions themselves.

[AnonymousProgramer]

@LarsTheHonest You're right, and I guess I shouldn't have used a word like "cursed". What I basically meant was just the opposite of blessed. Meaning God will not empower that kind of thing. But yeah, God will definitely not punish someone for making a mistake.

[DixieDan3]

@LarsTheHonest The biggest punishment lies in the real world where we have real feelings - Not in your alleged heaven and hell of which there is not a shred of evidence except an old book of rewritten, ancient, iron-age fairy tales. Those questions were for a reason. To answer. They're an invitation to think beyond your socialization of mere "belief", which, unlike science, doesn't like the bright exposure of scrutiny. Honest scientists think of god-worship as blind faith for many reasons.

[LarsTheHonest]

@DixieDan3 The Bble has dealt with ALOT of scrutiny. But with other books like the Koran, we've barely started scratching the surface. The Bible is being attacked from all angles. But its still here, it has still survived. Coincidence? Dont think so.

And btw, you took my comment and twisted it into something completely different. I wasnt discussing whether the Bible is reliable. I was discussing with another Christian, whether you would be punished for making a mistake.

[ArmageddonThruToYou]

@5544john

RE: "can you imagine John Lennox saying something like this?"

I guess this is your version of WWJD.

This says more about the hierarchy of who you follow than anything

[jasmin5592]

I'm so glad this got posted. I missed the event.