The claims about supposed DNA evidence refuting the validity of the Book of Mormon are not reliable to say the least. The whole thing is too unreliable, DNA testing will neither solidify or refute the truth of the Book of Mormon. If any question of the truth of the Book of Mormon exists, the answer will be found in prayer to him who inspired it.
Why would anyone dedicate their lives to tearing down the testimonies of others? and how could anyone after watching this video deny the Spirit? Please,let us just believe what we will, and we'll let you keep your beliefs. As for me, I testify that the Spirit is the true witness to the truth of everything this man says, and that he speaks through inspiration, and that Jesus Christ has atoned for our sins, and granted us all with his mercy. In the name of Christ, amen.
@999LDS Guess you haven't read the latest DNA research. Read on Wikipedia about "Haplogroup X" and note where the two major concentrations are located.
@alexandertytler Your absolutely right! But... alot of lds are looking in the wrong places which give these buttholes ammunition. The Haplo Group X DNA was found right here in the heart of Northern America. Joseph Smith sent the first mission to the Lamanites that harbored Haplo Group X DNA! NOT to Central America where the proposed settings took place. How did he know that? Cause he a prophet of GOD!
Why do people hate those who speak of Christ? To suggest that Mormons miss something because they have the Book of Mormon, that somehow that suggests they don't read the bible and are therefore lesser people, that shows your own lack of understanding of what the bible contains. The gospel of Christ is more than what you know, it's who you are. And anyone, Mormon or otherwise, cannot both hate his brother and follow Christ.
Bruce R McConkie's single most powerful moment. He died a week after this, and was expected to collapse during conference. You'd have to be heartless not to appreciate this man for his dedication to his religion and all the people in it, his love for what he does, and his devotion to God and Christ. Rest in peace, Elder McConkie. You deserved paradise.
Just as the majority rejected Jesus in his time on earth, so in our day do the people disbelieve that he returned and restored his gospel, the restitution of all things as Peter spoke of and The dipensation of the fullness of times spoken of by Paul. The Holy Ghost has borne witness through my entire being that this work is divine. After just one lesson of the church I knew almost nothing about, I came to understand through prayer that Joseph is the prohet of the restoration.
@MrPunishermax Ah...the spirit of Mormonism shows it's true colours. Your name is interesting. Is this u "punishing" me to the "max" or is ur name "Max" and u verbally "punish" those who question the authenticity of ur church's bogus claim to be Christian?
The propitiation for sin took place on the cross at Calvary, not in Gethsemane. If u had actually read the Bible part of your tripler u would have know that, but ur a Mormon so, I guest the Bible isn't something u read much. ;~)
@RPM11111 we believe he did suffer on the cross but for the most part the greatest of his suffering was in the Garden of Gethsemane..............what do you think 'bleeding from every pore' means? Thieves flanked him either side on the cross so they would have felt the same pain but the pain he bore in the Garden of Gethsemane no human could have borne. Think about it.
1 Pet 2:21-24 "For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: Who his own self BARE OUR SINS ON HIS OWN BODY ON THE TREE, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: BY WHOSE STRIPES ye were healed."
@RPM11111 there is no argument about his suffering for we all know how he suffered and why.....I get that but to say his suffering was solely on the cross is wrong. I do not celebrate his death, I know he died for me and I get that, but I know he lives for me and that is what I celebrate......his life his resurrection his triumphant return....and by him and through him I can live with him again. Is not that worth celebrating?
? u just said: "for the most part the greatest of his suffering was in the Garden of Gethsemane"
Yet now u claim that I said "his suffering was solely on the cross", which I did not say.
Jesus suffered for us in the garden, when Judas betrayed Him, Peter denied Him, the Apostles abandoned Him, when He was spat on, punched and had His beard pulled, when he was lashed and had a crown of thorns pushed on His head, but His DEATH atoned for our sins - Rom 6:23.
Christ's physical sufferings are not the important part of his total suffering - becoming sin, though sinless and being forsaken by His Father because of it was the greater part..."My God, My God, why have Thou forsaken me?"
Bet you won't even read: Philip 2:8 / John 19:30-31 / Col 1:19-20 / Eph 2:13-16 / Heb 5:6-8 / 1 Cor 15:1-4
1 Cor 1:18 "For the preaching of the CROSS is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."
..however, through modern revelation we have a clearer understanding, but I know you dont believe in that. I would like to say that I know that Christ took upon himself our weaknesses, pains, and sicknesses. And, because He did this He can now with perfect empathy comfort us. In all our trials He knows exactly what we are going through, because He has personally experienced it. As the prophet said. "surely he hath bourne our griefs, and carried our sorrows".
We believe that the Atonement took place in three stages, Christs suffering in the Garden, HIs sacrifice on the Cross, and His Resurection from the tomb. In a way we dont fully understand, Christ in Gethsemane suffered the trials, pains, and sicknesses of all of humanity. The immense physical suffering, and emotional distress was enough to make him bleed at every poor. Honestly, as you stated we do not know all the details behind it...
Its just as you said, they would have stayed there in paradise. But... because they would have never experienced pain, suffering, or trials, they could never fully appreciate how good they had it. They could not have known joy, because they knew no misery.
If we are faithful, we can return and live with God again. And when we do it will be a blessing we will better appreciate, and understand because of the trials we would have gone through in this life.
I fear for McConkie's fate after espousing such heretical doctrine. In Eden there was life until the fall. And had the fall not taken place there still would have been life. In Eden was the tree of life, symbolizing this very thing The fall was a tragedy. What kind of God takes pleasure in deliberately plunging His creation into a world of sin and death only for the purpose to see who is worthy? Don't be fooled by this man's tears. He is an impostor and a false prophet spoken of by Jesus Himself
@canterdogs how could we ever experience happiness, if we never felt sorrow? how could we truly appreciate health if we never experienced sickness? The trials of this life are divinely tailored by a loving God, to help us apreciate his blessings even more. This life is a test, but its not one we were forced into. Even Adam and Eve made the choice to accept the suffering and trials of this life. All of us made that same choice. We knew it would be hard, but we also knew that it would be worth it.
When God created the earth and everthing in it, He declared it good. When God declares something good, that is exactly what it is. He gave Adam and Eve two commandments - Not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and to be fruitful and multiply. They broke God's commandment. They wanted more. It's no small thing to sin against God, which is exactly what they did. The fall was indeed a tragedy.
@canterdogs True, God did declare his creation good. But the question is what would life have been like for Adam and Eve if they had remained in the garden? What would have happened to them?
@nagymadar3rd Adam and Eve would have remained in paradise with their Creator. Is there any doubt about that. Their fall was not a fall upward. It was a complete tragedy.
I would like to see these plates for myself. I'll wager that's impossible because they're aren't any neither have there ever been any. You feed off anything they tell you. If Jesus returned and said you were wrong, you'd justify to errors to him, also.
Gethsemane has nothing to do with the Mormon's failure to embrace the Mind that was in Christ Jesus. Jesus knew nothing about Smith's Mormon book What is this thing called "Mormon" anyway? It's just a follower of Smith's doomsday fantasy-ridden ideology. The professional con artist has a mental skill replete with confidence and innocence whereby he convinces his "mark" of the validity of his propositions. Jesus filled his followers with Love and taught them effective healing principles.
@bmiller4930 The Plates of Mormon, which consist of an abridgment by Mormon from the Large Plates of Nephi, with many commentaries. These plates also contained a continuation of the history by Mormon and additions by his son Moroni.
I testify to these things and know them to be true. Not because I heard these things from another man, but because I searched the scriptures - as the Bereans did - and therefore I know them to be true. I also know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the LDS church is false. I know this from comparing the doctrines of the church - as espoused by McConkie above and by other leaders of the church - to the Bible. This is my solemn testimony, in the blessed name of Jesus. Amen
Before Christ, the sacrificial system was in place for the forgiveness of sins. An innocent lamb was slain for sins of man. The priests continually performed this atoning sacrifice year after year. All this pointed to Christ, where He became the better and final sacrifice. Read Hebrews, the cross is where the atonement took place. Gethsemane is not mentioned in relation to the atonement at all. It is the cross only. Not by the sweating of blood but by the shedding of blood!!!
@brendos444 The atonement was through the shedding of blood, as Elder McKonkie states. "...atonement wrought by the shedding of the blood of God." 3:04-3:10 He also states that "... it took place in gethsemane, and at golgotha" 3:11 - 3:15 In Gethsemane Christ suffered the pains of sin, and on Golgotha, on the cross he paid the price for our sins.
Everywhere in the NT testament we are told that Christ died for our sins. That took place on the cross. In the OT we are told that Christ was pierced for our transgressions. That took place on the cross not in the garden. By contrast we are told only by Luke that Christ was sweating "as it were" drops of blood. Luke uses a metaphor here. It wasn't actual blood. The other gospels don't mention sweating blood at all. The atonement is one of the most plain teachings in the Bible.
Are LDS insisting that when the mob came to arrest Jesus after His prayer in the garden that He was covered in blood? surely not. This is not what we read about in the Bible. Even in Elder Holland's testimony of Jesus which had a background film playing portraying Jesus in the Garden did not depict Him bleeding. Such a claim that the atonement took place in the Garden is totally wrong.
@LightGnolaumNO! read the account of Gethsemane in Luke. Jesus sweat "AS IT WERE" blood. Luke was using a figure of speech. None of the other gospels record this detail. Furthermore, every description of the atonement in the letters of the apostles refers to the atonement as taking place on the cross.
@brendos444 The atonement is a cumulative total of all He did, initiated with the Fall in Eden & culminating, for now, with the ascension...all necessary aspects, or steps, of the atonement. Look at "at-one-ment" ONLY in Gethsemane does he define our potential in our relationship with Him, the Father, the Apostles & each other. Read closely John 17. Note the word "one", & how much he uses it, indicating that suffering in Gethsemane was a key part in the atonement, and not just a nice prayer.
Why do LDS insist on opposing Christianity in every detail. Do you oppose our teaching of the atonement because it is too gory or horrible for LDS think of? you are trying to fit the teachings of the Bible into your own little box of what is acceptable.
The atonement took place when Jesus died on the cross not at Gethsemane. If Christ atoned at Gethsemane, why did He have to die? Adam's fall was a totally bad thing. It was never the ideal of God. To say that this was part of God's plan is absolutely incorrect and heretical of the highest order. Bruce talks of the three gardens, but not of the cross. The cross is where the atonement took place. It is not by the sweating of blood but by the shedding of blood do we receive forgiveness.
@czern that is so true, he is dead and by all accounts he led a great life, a deeply humble and dignified man, you could learn something from the way he lived if you took your own advice and shoved a few of those suppositories where the sun dont shine because you definitely have a problem.
As one of the chief technical advisers to the British Haemorrhoid Relief Agency, I can tell at a glance that this gentleman is using suppositories of altogether unsuitable dimension and composition. If he'd like to write to me about his problem, I'll do all I can.
czerniakowska, maybe one day you will become member of the beautiful church of Jesus Christ and you will understand the power of his testimony, I will pray for you.
@telesoforo123 Thanks a million. I'm busy right now, both in providing haemorrhoid relief to the masses and in enjoying twice-weekly afternoons of wanton carnality with two Filipina waitresses from a local restaurant. On top of all that (and them) I've got to get some plumbing fixed in my bathroom. Maybe I can visit your church in late-summer? Does your congregation include any hot chicks who are looking for interesting new positions (if you get my drift)?
Later, however, after what might be read as a conversion experience (Gen 32), Jacob lavishes gifts on Esau as a conciliatory offering, which Esau graciously and forgivingly accepts.
"being nice"? anyone can see thru your hypocrisy. you called me an "abuser" on Nova's page, only because I challenged your beliefs. and everyone can see thru the fake niceness here. no one is fooled by you.
it's a fact that those who escape from the Mormon cult are far happier once they leave. they get a 10% pay raise, they don't have to worry about the lies of the church and it's silly mythology. and they laugh at people like you when you insist that we are miserable. how funny!
oh get a life you dummie I know kiwi and shes a whole lot nicer than you will ever be aand if youa re so happy then why are you wasting your time trying to argue the point with people that are steadfast and immoveable? Is not that a terrible waste of time? You knew the truth and you gave it away for something better.....than be happy? What is your problem? seriously I told you before you need to speak to your shrink to work out your issues........
and they leave the church because they cant practise their lifestyles kiddo like being gay........a 10% pay rise haha I would not leave my beliefs for all the money in the world, like I said before you twit, there are no rich people in a cemetery.......
Anti-mormons apostates blah blah blah Ive heard it all.......go convert someone else.....I told you before...... you waste your time and obviously you seem to have a lot of it.......
If that is your belief and you have found a better way of living then I am happy for you, but I do not go onto your sites and tear down your beliefs so why do you do it? Well actually I know why you guys do it......nevertheless it makes no difference and I doubt whether you have swayed any readers one bit....you see I have a testimony and that is something that YOU can never change or destroy.......have a good life
Oooooh hang on a minute I just read what you said...'I believe.....' so herein lies the paradox you don't know at all you only believe....is not that exactly what we are talking about here...beliefs? Well we shall agree to disagree....you believe what you want and I will too......shall we shake hands?
I believe, as in I KNOW. Science has proven that there's NO Jewish DNA among the Native Americans, yet it's claimed that the people of the book of mormon are their ancestors. the Smithsonian Institution, a respected scientific & historical org, has verified that the "Book of Abraham" is false. But it IS true that JS married (via LDS church records) 7 teenage girls and committed paedophilic acts. these are FACTS, not beliefs. this can all be verified thru RESPECTED sources, not "anti" ones.
hahaha kiwi funny all these people that were mormons aye then they saw the 'light' ho hum havent we all heard that before.....they will all fall by the wayside but the church will just carry on with or without them......it so smacks of arrogance that they think they will be the ones to bring it down.....now thats a real HAHA HO HO moment!!
why tell me these things, why dont you write a letter to the prophet maybe he will listen and stop this 'nonsense' you live in a fantasy world you are the one that is branwashed I feel nothing but oity for you.......but be happy anyway because I am
people who are addicted to power don't give it up. your so-called "prophet" (should really be spelled "profit") would never give up all the money he has... some people say that the church brings in $10 BILLION USD per year.
Oh so now youre jealous of all the money we make, at least we can see where our money goes you twit, Ive done all the research I need to.......you know nothing you believe in nothing and FYI Joseph Smith was never rich, in fact hes dead and there are no rich people in a cemetery......get over it get some counselling SERIOUS!
ho ho ho, wait a minute so I can stop laughing! it's sooooo funny to hear you misguided souls go on about how we're not happy, we must be miserable, etc, etc. I believed that too, when i was a mormon.
no, i'm just wondering why you think it's OK for your prophet to have been a paedophile....
yep u got that right kiwi its all about choices and im real happy about the ones ive made the problem is THEY arent happy haha go figure aye they will go away in the end when they see they are wasting their time..........you have a divine day too my friend!!
haha kiwi they been doing that to me for 2 weeks like I really care....I know who I am but they obviously have an identity crisis.......wat u up2 cuzz
oi kiwi welcome to the SERIOUSLY warped mind of a few deluded people haha they do it for a lark well you know me I wont give in so I say bring it on.........
Oh, I understand... I understand that you're seriously deluded. How you can you belong to a church that was founded by a man who slept with 14 year old girls... more than half his age?!! Do you approve of paedophilia?
uuh do you have a problem with that?? the catholic priests abused thousands of little boys and you have a problem with something that happened over 200 years ago whilst what the catholics did are still happening today....woouldnt you be more concerned about that??
not so much a problem, as I am wondering why it's ok for your revered prophet, who "did more for the salvation of the world, save Jesus Christ" ... to have done such evil things. sounds like a big fat lie.
honestly you keep repeating yourself and kiwi is right, it is getting so boring ho hum but ask yourself this, do you believe that liars get caught out in their lies? do you believe that truth will always prevail? do you believe that if something was false then one day it would be discovered? they tried to disprove that the landing on the moon was a myth too......but it happened I mean come on be honest here......
I believe that JS has already been caught in many lies.... like lying about "translating" the book of mormon... using plural marriage to justify sex with lots of women... calling the pearl of great price a record of Abraham when in fact scientists now say they're just old Egyptian funeral prayers. the whole faith is built on lies!
Oh and I suppose you are getting all this info off the internet because it is not something that you know for sure is it? You are just repeating what other people have said and they have no clue either. Does it change what I think? In no way so move on to someone that may believe what you say......
"just repeating what other people have said and they have no clue either" ... and this is how I know you're lying about your age being 37. only a kid, a teen or a somewhat impaired person would make a statement like that. The are degrees of reliability for anything on the web. not every source is clueless, not every source is "anti-mormon". i only get my info from sources I can verify. the fact that you don't understand this reflects on your youth... or your intelligence.
aahh and I see you have all male friends on your channel hmmm are you gay? Is that why you left the church? Yes of course it makes sense now same as Kaileo1 hes gay too, because you could not live your lifestyle THATS the chip on your shoulder well good luck to you, you would not be the first gay person to try and bring the church down.......LOSERS and HYPOCRITES full of hate say no more....
oh and another thing to put in your bonnet of personal issues.......not only do I not debate my beliefs but I also do not debate lies or untruths, so unless you can come up with anything of substance OBJECTIVELY hey then mate Im all ears.........
dude, this is proof of how stupid you are. i gave you substance and you either ignored it or didn't recognize it. i pointed out how a respected mormon scholar showed that JS had 33 wives. they were obviously used to satisfy his lust for women and girls. that's why I asked you if you're OK with having a sex addict and paedophile as your church founder... remember?
no lie there... your OWN church member wrote it! massive fail on your part.
oh and let me tell you something....in all this rhetoric with you and the other dude who gave up btw not anything you have both said has changed my mind or my feelings in any way, shape or form so carry on till you are blue in the face.....mate......you are wasting your time but hey Im having a great time.....very amusing to say the least......
but like i said...mate.....you are not interested in what I say or what I believe you just dont like the fact that I DO BELIEVE and that seems to rile you no end....do I have issues?? No mate and even if I did you would be the last person I would tell.......dont you have anything better to do in your pathetic little life?
You know I dont give a crap about what you think or how you think I feel because you dont know me, I dont have issues with what I believe You are the one that has issues that is why you made the first comment duuuh and yes I am fine with that.......because it may have been founded by him but the church belongs the Jesus Christ, hopefully somewhere in your study you came acorss that piece of info
Just proves a point that when you throw in stuff like that you dont really want to debate you just want to start an argument so you can be RIGHT but just like I told the other moron, I dont have to answer to such insignificant, small-minded people like yourself that do not have a clue and hide behind the pretence that they want to 'help' me paaahleeeese, what do you care about me?? yea right you drongo ning nong and thats putting it nicely...
Man, you're stupid! Too dumb to do some actual research, so you push your head into the sand! The Mormon church's own website "Family Search" lists 24 of Joseph Smith's wives! And respected, faithful Mormon historian Todd Compton, in his book "In Sacred Loneliness" has proof of the 33. You can get his book thru Deseret Book and of course Amazon. See for yourself! See for yourself that Joseph Smith was consumed by his lust for women and girls!
Hmm you dont believe but you spend time researching Mormon literature, is that so you can give it your own interpretation? You pretend to be concerned about my well-being, but its obvious that you are the one confused. I bet you were an unloved child because seriously you have issues and need some very intensive therapy because you have an even BIGGER chip on your shoulder, and if Im so dumb, why do you keep replying duuh
Mate, you have got to stop projecting your feelings of being unloved onto other people! So funny how Mormons always think that those who disagree with them are unhappy, and then Mormons project their own feelings of inadequacy onto their opponents. Pathetic.
So you're OK having a paedophile and sex addict as the founder of your church?
"If a friend, or even a stranger, was in a religion that was false, wouldn't you want to help them see the error of their ways? That's why we do this"
Thats what you said previously, that insinuates that you want to 'help' me hahaha thats the biggest BS ever so dont try and use that line ok? You do this because thats what apostates do to make themselves feel better like they know something that only they know blah blah blah Ive heard it all before, YOU are not my friend YOU need help go get it
actually, cult members convince themselves that no one outside the cult could possibly have any kind of truth, or have any well intentioned motives. so in that respect the mormon cult has done a fine job on you... you're too brain-washed to try doing even a little research.
and the funny thing is, how could it hurt you to look at something other than church doctine? if it's not true, then you'll know it. if it is true, you'll be glad you escaped.
Man you dont get it do you? Heres the the thing I do know its true and I have looked at all the stuff out there, the anti-mormon literature, the apostates, and nothing has convinced me or made me want to change the way I feel or live, I am very happy regardless of what anyone says, why would I want to change something that works for me? Now if you have an issue with that then I suggest you find someone that believes what you are saying but if you want to carry on then so be it....
Oh Im not in darkness not at all, I lead a very happy and healthy life and you are just annoyed because I do not agree with you or see things your way..... well tough....get over it.......how stupid indeed
Look kid, keep imagining things if you wish. I'm doing this purely as a lark, since i know you're too ignorant and stubborn to understand. i think it's funny how you dream up your silly little excuses and thing you're so smart. it's like a kid who's at a buffet restaurant but will only eat one food, even tho there's dozens more to try. I just keep responding to see how long I can keep you going. i don't even read half of your many many responses... just enough to write back.
anyway dude ill check you out lata NOT!! Im off to fix a friends computer......maybe Charles Darwin might throw some light on computer technology you think??
Oh yeah true religion is for the weak that's why your whole country was settled by convicts, maybe you should take a closer look at the true owners of Australia and uhhh they look very similar to homo sapiens
hey drongo, it doesn't work that way... you need to say something intelligent first!
did you know that Joseph Smith was a paedophile? he started plural marriage so that he could sleep with the 15 and 14 year old kids that he married-- not to mention all the other females he lusted after. he had about 33 wives. the older ones were usually widows with money. others were still married to their orig husbands when they were "sealed" to JS. there was about 8 kids from all this.
oh yea some intelligence you have typical propaganda from all apostates so yea come back when you havent been listening to your hairdresser.....drongo from the congo blah blah
You aint a friend and the only stranger is you.... Human evolution, or anthropogenesis, is the origin and evolution of Homo sapiens as a distinct species from other hominids, great apes and placental mammals....and Im dumb?? nong
Yes, you are dumb. You implied that evolution means we're evolved from apes. Evolution has never said that. We do share a common ancestor, which is a VASTLY different concept. And humans have obviously evolved far more than apes have.
But that's just it....I don't have to so go and crawl back under your rock....I mean honestly who do you think you people are? You obviously don't come in here to listen to Elder McConkie, you are just trouble makers hey but you know what?/ Like I really care about people like you but uuuh I just like having the last word so bring it on, you will be saying bye bye just like the other obnoxious dude.......:)
Try to find a fulfilling life away from Youtube and be a productive and contributing member in society, that will do more for your spiritual well-being than any debate you will find in here.......if anything you have my sympathy.....
Hmm typical you cant find a person with who to argue with....you want to be right, my point of view does not matter that is obvious from the dialogue, you are an apostate and you look for members, admit it, that is what you do, post radical statements to get a response so you can fuel your poor misguided beliefs, ohh the futility of it all.......as if you would want to debate a kid that was not that 'smart' 'naive' and 'believed in mythology' duuuh and double duuuh
If you had anything of substance to say then maybe I would, but you just sound like any other apostate......besides why would you want to debate with a kid duuh
If you will actually defend your church, and stop calling names (which is boring rather than offensive), then we can have a debate. Otherwise, good luck.
and incidentally while we are not evading questions, you did not answer mine, what did you believe in 30 years? what did you stand for in all that time?
It was not answered because, 1. You haven't answered any of mine, & 2. It's not a question that involves the beliefs of the church, which is the topic.
Don't be naive. Obviously one thinks one has the truth, that's why one stays in an church-- for 30 years or more sometimes. Learning is a process... it's not always obvious that you're surrounded by false doctrine.
Sorry kid, but it's obvious that you don't know how to defend your church. Ask your mom and dad for help. Good luck.
Well maybe you did not pray hard enough to know it was false doctrine or maybe you were a caterpillar that was just content to crawl in and out instead of a pillar in supporting the church.......the church will go on an dfunction as a 'house of order' with or without you, as for my beliefs they are mine and mine alone, they are not for the hardhearted.........and being patronising doesnt help your cause but like I really care......
Do you have anything better to do than spend your life in here trying to disprove something that 13 million people believe? Do you seriously in your own mind think for one minute that someone as insignificant as you can bring this gospel down? You are joking
And the only one 'tearing down' is you.........you are so busy trying to prove the church is false, I am saying that I do not have to prove a thing to you, I do not know you, what you say makes no difference to me, but I think that what you are spouting means a whole lot to you......sad
Again, you're evading answering any question... just like a kid or teenager does. It seems unfair to even try to engage you in debate, since you don't know how to debate or defend your faith. You're obviously too young to know enough about the doctrine of your own church.
Then you didnt learn anything in 30 years of being a member..........I do not engage in debates about my testimony I do not need to....and unfortunately that's what you want to do......
Challenging someone's faith is not tearing down. It's asking for a rational response to an accusation about your faith. I'm challenging what you believe... you're just calling me names. Do you even understand the difference?
Lol you are entertaining I must admit because anyone reading this would read that you have repeated your statistics more than once, 30 years in the church, tell me what did you stand up for in all that time? When you were being an example and a role model in your callings? Im curious
The claims about supposed DNA evidence refuting the validity of the Book of Mormon are not reliable to say the least. The whole thing is too unreliable, DNA testing will neither solidify or refute the truth of the Book of Mormon. If any question of the truth of the Book of Mormon exists, the answer will be found in prayer to him who inspired it.
mastermolepenguin 1 month ago
Why would anyone dedicate their lives to tearing down the testimonies of others? and how could anyone after watching this video deny the Spirit? Please,let us just believe what we will, and we'll let you keep your beliefs. As for me, I testify that the Spirit is the true witness to the truth of everything this man says, and that he speaks through inspiration, and that Jesus Christ has atoned for our sins, and granted us all with his mercy. In the name of Christ, amen.
imacrumpet 5 months ago
Solid as a rock! Love this guy
MrBuddickman 6 months ago
His testimony is the best testimony I've ever heard. Love it!!
jaciwild 9 months ago
The end of this video was done before DNA proof showed that the American Indians were NOT descendants of Israel.
I wonder what McConkie would have said about that. RIP.
999LDS 9 months ago
@999LDS DNA Shmee N A
MandeeSparkle 9 months ago
@999LDS Guess you haven't read the latest DNA research. Read on Wikipedia about "Haplogroup X" and note where the two major concentrations are located.
alexandertytler 6 months ago
@alexandertytler Your absolutely right! But... alot of lds are looking in the wrong places which give these buttholes ammunition. The Haplo Group X DNA was found right here in the heart of Northern America. Joseph Smith sent the first mission to the Lamanites that harbored Haplo Group X DNA! NOT to Central America where the proposed settings took place. How did he know that? Cause he a prophet of GOD!
90Irocem 5 months ago
What a testimony....Bruce R McKonkie was a great Apostle
nivz11 10 months ago
Why do people hate those who speak of Christ? To suggest that Mormons miss something because they have the Book of Mormon, that somehow that suggests they don't read the bible and are therefore lesser people, that shows your own lack of understanding of what the bible contains. The gospel of Christ is more than what you know, it's who you are. And anyone, Mormon or otherwise, cannot both hate his brother and follow Christ.
mecurtis78 11 months ago
Bruce R McConkie's single most powerful moment. He died a week after this, and was expected to collapse during conference. You'd have to be heartless not to appreciate this man for his dedication to his religion and all the people in it, his love for what he does, and his devotion to God and Christ. Rest in peace, Elder McConkie. You deserved paradise.
Disneythievesrock 1 year ago
Just as the majority rejected Jesus in his time on earth, so in our day do the people disbelieve that he returned and restored his gospel, the restitution of all things as Peter spoke of and The dipensation of the fullness of times spoken of by Paul. The Holy Ghost has borne witness through my entire being that this work is divine. After just one lesson of the church I knew almost nothing about, I came to understand through prayer that Joseph is the prohet of the restoration.
MrFitzwilly 1 year ago
Thanks teen center. you did a great job with these videos. A Great Job. Thank you again!
fluffythecat2 1 year ago
A true Apostle of God. This is truth!
RealFlaw 1 year ago
Crocodile tears or delusions of humility.
RPM11111 1 year ago
@RPM11111
SHUT UP RETARDED U DONT KNOW NOTHING ABOUT YOUR OWN ASS!! YOU DONT KNOW GOD AND HIS WORKS!! SO SHUT UP FAG!!
MrPunishermax 1 year ago
@MrPunishermax Ah...the spirit of Mormonism shows it's true colours. Your name is interesting. Is this u "punishing" me to the "max" or is ur name "Max" and u verbally "punish" those who question the authenticity of ur church's bogus claim to be Christian?
The propitiation for sin took place on the cross at Calvary, not in Gethsemane. If u had actually read the Bible part of your tripler u would have know that, but ur a Mormon so, I guest the Bible isn't something u read much. ;~)
RPM11111 1 year ago
@RPM11111 Maybe you should listen to the talk again. Elder McConkie said it began in Gehtsemanie and contiued on the cross.
LDStothecore 1 year ago
@RPM11111 we believe he did suffer on the cross but for the most part the greatest of his suffering was in the Garden of Gethsemane..............what do you think 'bleeding from every pore' means? Thieves flanked him either side on the cross so they would have felt the same pain but the pain he bore in the Garden of Gethsemane no human could have borne. Think about it.
novarone72 10 months ago
@novarone72
1 Pet 2:21-24 "For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: Who his own self BARE OUR SINS ON HIS OWN BODY ON THE TREE, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: BY WHOSE STRIPES ye were healed."
RPM11111 10 months ago
@RPM11111 there is no argument about his suffering for we all know how he suffered and why.....I get that but to say his suffering was solely on the cross is wrong. I do not celebrate his death, I know he died for me and I get that, but I know he lives for me and that is what I celebrate......his life his resurrection his triumphant return....and by him and through him I can live with him again. Is not that worth celebrating?
novarone72 10 months ago
Comment removed
RPM11111 9 months ago
@novarone72 "there's no argument."
? u just said: "for the most part the greatest of his suffering was in the Garden of Gethsemane"
Yet now u claim that I said "his suffering was solely on the cross", which I did not say.
Jesus suffered for us in the garden, when Judas betrayed Him, Peter denied Him, the Apostles abandoned Him, when He was spat on, punched and had His beard pulled, when he was lashed and had a crown of thorns pushed on His head, but His DEATH atoned for our sins - Rom 6:23.
RPM11111 9 months ago
@novarone72
Christ's physical sufferings are not the important part of his total suffering - becoming sin, though sinless and being forsaken by His Father because of it was the greater part..."My God, My God, why have Thou forsaken me?"
Bet you won't even read: Philip 2:8 / John 19:30-31 / Col 1:19-20 / Eph 2:13-16 / Heb 5:6-8 / 1 Cor 15:1-4
1 Cor 1:18 "For the preaching of the CROSS is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."
2 Peter 2:1...
RPM11111 10 months ago
Stop fighting!
Doublechocitmuffin 1 year ago
..however, through modern revelation we have a clearer understanding, but I know you dont believe in that. I would like to say that I know that Christ took upon himself our weaknesses, pains, and sicknesses. And, because He did this He can now with perfect empathy comfort us. In all our trials He knows exactly what we are going through, because He has personally experienced it. As the prophet said. "surely he hath bourne our griefs, and carried our sorrows".
nagymadar3rd 1 year ago
We believe that the Atonement took place in three stages, Christs suffering in the Garden, HIs sacrifice on the Cross, and His Resurection from the tomb. In a way we dont fully understand, Christ in Gethsemane suffered the trials, pains, and sicknesses of all of humanity. The immense physical suffering, and emotional distress was enough to make him bleed at every poor. Honestly, as you stated we do not know all the details behind it...
nagymadar3rd 1 year ago
Its just as you said, they would have stayed there in paradise. But... because they would have never experienced pain, suffering, or trials, they could never fully appreciate how good they had it. They could not have known joy, because they knew no misery.
If we are faithful, we can return and live with God again. And when we do it will be a blessing we will better appreciate, and understand because of the trials we would have gone through in this life.
nagymadar3rd 1 year ago
A life without suffering, is a life without happiness.
nagymadar3rd 1 year ago
I fear for McConkie's fate after espousing such heretical doctrine. In Eden there was life until the fall. And had the fall not taken place there still would have been life. In Eden was the tree of life, symbolizing this very thing The fall was a tragedy. What kind of God takes pleasure in deliberately plunging His creation into a world of sin and death only for the purpose to see who is worthy? Don't be fooled by this man's tears. He is an impostor and a false prophet spoken of by Jesus Himself
canterdogs 1 year ago
@canterdogs how could we ever experience happiness, if we never felt sorrow? how could we truly appreciate health if we never experienced sickness? The trials of this life are divinely tailored by a loving God, to help us apreciate his blessings even more. This life is a test, but its not one we were forced into. Even Adam and Eve made the choice to accept the suffering and trials of this life. All of us made that same choice. We knew it would be hard, but we also knew that it would be worth it.
nagymadar3rd 1 year ago
When God created the earth and everthing in it, He declared it good. When God declares something good, that is exactly what it is. He gave Adam and Eve two commandments - Not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and to be fruitful and multiply. They broke God's commandment. They wanted more. It's no small thing to sin against God, which is exactly what they did. The fall was indeed a tragedy.
canterdogs 1 year ago
@canterdogs True, God did declare his creation good. But the question is what would life have been like for Adam and Eve if they had remained in the garden? What would have happened to them?
nagymadar3rd 1 year ago
@nagymadar3rd Adam and Eve would have remained in paradise with their Creator. Is there any doubt about that. Their fall was not a fall upward. It was a complete tragedy.
canterdogs 1 year ago
I would like to see these plates for myself. I'll wager that's impossible because they're aren't any neither have there ever been any. You feed off anything they tell you. If Jesus returned and said you were wrong, you'd justify to errors to him, also.
bmiller4930 1 year ago
I'm so grateful for the atonement. I'm grateful for apostle Bruce R. McConkie's testimony as a true apostle of Jesus Christ.
Kissmet1 1 year ago
Gethsemane has nothing to do with the Mormon's failure to embrace the Mind that was in Christ Jesus. Jesus knew nothing about Smith's Mormon book What is this thing called "Mormon" anyway? It's just a follower of Smith's doomsday fantasy-ridden ideology. The professional con artist has a mental skill replete with confidence and innocence whereby he convinces his "mark" of the validity of his propositions. Jesus filled his followers with Love and taught them effective healing principles.
bmiller4930 1 year ago
@bmiller4930 The Plates of Mormon, which consist of an abridgment by Mormon from the Large Plates of Nephi, with many commentaries. These plates also contained a continuation of the history by Mormon and additions by his son Moroni.
Kissmet1 1 year ago
I testify to these things and know them to be true. Not because I heard these things from another man, but because I searched the scriptures - as the Bereans did - and therefore I know them to be true. I also know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the LDS church is false. I know this from comparing the doctrines of the church - as espoused by McConkie above and by other leaders of the church - to the Bible. This is my solemn testimony, in the blessed name of Jesus. Amen
brendos444 1 year ago
Before Christ, the sacrificial system was in place for the forgiveness of sins. An innocent lamb was slain for sins of man. The priests continually performed this atoning sacrifice year after year. All this pointed to Christ, where He became the better and final sacrifice. Read Hebrews, the cross is where the atonement took place. Gethsemane is not mentioned in relation to the atonement at all. It is the cross only. Not by the sweating of blood but by the shedding of blood!!!
brendos444 1 year ago
@brendos444 The atonement was through the shedding of blood, as Elder McKonkie states. "...atonement wrought by the shedding of the blood of God." 3:04-3:10 He also states that "... it took place in gethsemane, and at golgotha" 3:11 - 3:15 In Gethsemane Christ suffered the pains of sin, and on Golgotha, on the cross he paid the price for our sins.
nagymadar3rd 1 year ago
Everywhere in the NT testament we are told that Christ died for our sins. That took place on the cross. In the OT we are told that Christ was pierced for our transgressions. That took place on the cross not in the garden. By contrast we are told only by Luke that Christ was sweating "as it were" drops of blood. Luke uses a metaphor here. It wasn't actual blood. The other gospels don't mention sweating blood at all. The atonement is one of the most plain teachings in the Bible.
brendos444 1 year ago
Are LDS insisting that when the mob came to arrest Jesus after His prayer in the garden that He was covered in blood? surely not. This is not what we read about in the Bible. Even in Elder Holland's testimony of Jesus which had a background film playing portraying Jesus in the Garden did not depict Him bleeding. Such a claim that the atonement took place in the Garden is totally wrong.
brendos444 1 year ago
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LightGnolaum 1 year ago
@LightGnolaumNO! read the account of Gethsemane in Luke. Jesus sweat "AS IT WERE" blood. Luke was using a figure of speech. None of the other gospels record this detail. Furthermore, every description of the atonement in the letters of the apostles refers to the atonement as taking place on the cross.
brendos444 1 year ago
Comment removed
LightGnolaum 1 year ago
@brendos444 The atonement is a cumulative total of all He did, initiated with the Fall in Eden & culminating, for now, with the ascension...all necessary aspects, or steps, of the atonement. Look at "at-one-ment" ONLY in Gethsemane does he define our potential in our relationship with Him, the Father, the Apostles & each other. Read closely John 17. Note the word "one", & how much he uses it, indicating that suffering in Gethsemane was a key part in the atonement, and not just a nice prayer.
batterdown 1 year ago
Why do LDS insist on opposing Christianity in every detail. Do you oppose our teaching of the atonement because it is too gory or horrible for LDS think of? you are trying to fit the teachings of the Bible into your own little box of what is acceptable.
brendos444 1 year ago
Comment removed
brendos444 1 year ago
The atonement took place when Jesus died on the cross not at Gethsemane. If Christ atoned at Gethsemane, why did He have to die? Adam's fall was a totally bad thing. It was never the ideal of God. To say that this was part of God's plan is absolutely incorrect and heretical of the highest order. Bruce talks of the three gardens, but not of the cross. The cross is where the atonement took place. It is not by the sweating of blood but by the shedding of blood do we receive forgiveness.
brendos444 1 year ago
We all knew this was Bruce R's last talk in GC. There wasn't a dry eye in the congregation. Thanks for posting.
1pt21jigawatt 2 years ago
I love this man. And that arrangement by Mack Wilberg of "I Believe in Christ" is one of the greatest pieces of music ever.
MorPhiendWii 2 years ago
@czern that is so true, he is dead and by all accounts he led a great life, a deeply humble and dignified man, you could learn something from the way he lived if you took your own advice and shoved a few of those suppositories where the sun dont shine because you definitely have a problem.
novarone72 2 years ago
He died 12 days later!
zwonder 2 years ago
As one of the chief technical advisers to the British Haemorrhoid Relief Agency, I can tell at a glance that this gentleman is using suppositories of altogether unsuitable dimension and composition. If he'd like to write to me about his problem, I'll do all I can.
Czerniakowska 2 years ago
@czerniakowska he is dead so your comment is totally disrepectful, I think you need to use a few of your products.
novarone72 2 years ago 2
The haemorrhoids got him did they? Too late for me to come to his aid. By the looks of him, though, he didn't have much of a life.
Czerniakowska 2 years ago
czerniakowska, maybe one day you will become member of the beautiful church of Jesus Christ and you will understand the power of his testimony, I will pray for you.
telesoforo123 2 years ago
@telesoforo123 Thanks a million. I'm busy right now, both in providing haemorrhoid relief to the masses and in enjoying twice-weekly afternoons of wanton carnality with two Filipina waitresses from a local restaurant. On top of all that (and them) I've got to get some plumbing fixed in my bathroom. Maybe I can visit your church in late-summer? Does your congregation include any hot chicks who are looking for interesting new positions (if you get my drift)?
Czerniakowska 2 years ago
the spirit speaks louder than any fool, Any false idea. it just does.
things43 2 years ago
Later, however, after what might be read as a conversion experience (Gen 32), Jacob lavishes gifts on Esau as a conciliatory offering, which Esau graciously and forgivingly accepts.
omiolo 2 years ago
"It's becoming more apparent to me that the Lord's dreams for us are bigger than our own," Payne said
omiolo 2 years ago
thats right you tell him kiwi........I know you are a nice person he knows nothing.......
novarone72 2 years ago
"being nice"? anyone can see thru your hypocrisy. you called me an "abuser" on Nova's page, only because I challenged your beliefs. and everyone can see thru the fake niceness here. no one is fooled by you.
it's a fact that those who escape from the Mormon cult are far happier once they leave. they get a 10% pay raise, they don't have to worry about the lies of the church and it's silly mythology. and they laugh at people like you when you insist that we are miserable. how funny!
divinehumanism 2 years ago
oh get a life you dummie I know kiwi and shes a whole lot nicer than you will ever be aand if youa re so happy then why are you wasting your time trying to argue the point with people that are steadfast and immoveable? Is not that a terrible waste of time? You knew the truth and you gave it away for something better.....than be happy? What is your problem? seriously I told you before you need to speak to your shrink to work out your issues........
novarone72 2 years ago 2
and they leave the church because they cant practise their lifestyles kiddo like being gay........a 10% pay rise haha I would not leave my beliefs for all the money in the world, like I said before you twit, there are no rich people in a cemetery.......
novarone72 2 years ago
u are stunning kiwi!! u rock gurl hehe uuuh drongo its actually a bird but aussie slang for a stupid person lol that be right......
novarone72 2 years ago
Anti-mormons apostates blah blah blah Ive heard it all.......go convert someone else.....I told you before...... you waste your time and obviously you seem to have a lot of it.......
novarone72 2 years ago
the only time wasted is yours, if you're not brave enough to do some research on your own.
divinehumanism 2 years ago
naa you wasted your time because you tried to get me to think your way not vice versa so duuuh
novarone72 2 years ago
wrong. I'm sure plenty of people have seen your non-answers, and recognized that what I'm saying is true. no waste there.
divinehumanism 2 years ago
Oh plenty of people aye?? Umm so where are they??
novarone72 2 years ago
If that is your belief and you have found a better way of living then I am happy for you, but I do not go onto your sites and tear down your beliefs so why do you do it? Well actually I know why you guys do it......nevertheless it makes no difference and I doubt whether you have swayed any readers one bit....you see I have a testimony and that is something that YOU can never change or destroy.......have a good life
novarone72 2 years ago
Oooooh hang on a minute I just read what you said...'I believe.....' so herein lies the paradox you don't know at all you only believe....is not that exactly what we are talking about here...beliefs? Well we shall agree to disagree....you believe what you want and I will too......shall we shake hands?
novarone72 2 years ago
I believe, as in I KNOW. Science has proven that there's NO Jewish DNA among the Native Americans, yet it's claimed that the people of the book of mormon are their ancestors. the Smithsonian Institution, a respected scientific & historical org, has verified that the "Book of Abraham" is false. But it IS true that JS married (via LDS church records) 7 teenage girls and committed paedophilic acts. these are FACTS, not beliefs. this can all be verified thru RESPECTED sources, not "anti" ones.
divinehumanism 2 years ago
and i'm not your cuzz, you drongo.
divinehumanism 2 years ago
you already read it, huh? then I guess you're OK with paedophiles. nice.
divinehumanism 2 years ago
hahaha kiwi funny all these people that were mormons aye then they saw the 'light' ho hum havent we all heard that before.....they will all fall by the wayside but the church will just carry on with or without them......it so smacks of arrogance that they think they will be the ones to bring it down.....now thats a real HAHA HO HO moment!!
novarone72 2 years ago
The world is bringing your church down... your baptism rate is slipping... many long-time member are leaving... all is not well in "Zion".
and I didn't join. I was born into the mormon cult.
divinehumanism 2 years ago
why tell me these things, why dont you write a letter to the prophet maybe he will listen and stop this 'nonsense' you live in a fantasy world you are the one that is branwashed I feel nothing but oity for you.......but be happy anyway because I am
novarone72 2 years ago
people who are addicted to power don't give it up. your so-called "prophet" (should really be spelled "profit") would never give up all the money he has... some people say that the church brings in $10 BILLION USD per year.
divinehumanism 2 years ago
Oh so now youre jealous of all the money we make, at least we can see where our money goes you twit, Ive done all the research I need to.......you know nothing you believe in nothing and FYI Joseph Smith was never rich, in fact hes dead and there are no rich people in a cemetery......get over it get some counselling SERIOUS!
novarone72 2 years ago
cya kiwi hey cuzz thanx for droppin by its been entertaining to say the least! lata gurl
novarone72 2 years ago
ho ho ho, wait a minute so I can stop laughing! it's sooooo funny to hear you misguided souls go on about how we're not happy, we must be miserable, etc, etc. I believed that too, when i was a mormon.
no, i'm just wondering why you think it's OK for your prophet to have been a paedophile....
divinehumanism 2 years ago
so why did you join you goofball
novarone72 2 years ago
yep u got that right kiwi its all about choices and im real happy about the ones ive made the problem is THEY arent happy haha go figure aye they will go away in the end when they see they are wasting their time..........you have a divine day too my friend!!
novarone72 2 years ago
haha kiwi they been doing that to me for 2 weeks like I really care....I know who I am but they obviously have an identity crisis.......wat u up2 cuzz
novarone72 2 years ago
oi kiwi welcome to the SERIOUSLY warped mind of a few deluded people haha they do it for a lark well you know me I wont give in so I say bring it on.........
novarone72 2 years ago
Oh, I understand... I understand that you're seriously deluded. How you can you belong to a church that was founded by a man who slept with 14 year old girls... more than half his age?!! Do you approve of paedophilia?
divinehumanism 2 years ago
uuh do you have a problem with that?? the catholic priests abused thousands of little boys and you have a problem with something that happened over 200 years ago whilst what the catholics did are still happening today....woouldnt you be more concerned about that??
novarone72 2 years ago
not so much a problem, as I am wondering why it's ok for your revered prophet, who "did more for the salvation of the world, save Jesus Christ" ... to have done such evil things. sounds like a big fat lie.
divinehumanism 2 years ago
honestly you keep repeating yourself and kiwi is right, it is getting so boring ho hum but ask yourself this, do you believe that liars get caught out in their lies? do you believe that truth will always prevail? do you believe that if something was false then one day it would be discovered? they tried to disprove that the landing on the moon was a myth too......but it happened I mean come on be honest here......
novarone72 2 years ago
I believe that JS has already been caught in many lies.... like lying about "translating" the book of mormon... using plural marriage to justify sex with lots of women... calling the pearl of great price a record of Abraham when in fact scientists now say they're just old Egyptian funeral prayers. the whole faith is built on lies!
divinehumanism 2 years ago
Oh and I suppose you are getting all this info off the internet because it is not something that you know for sure is it? You are just repeating what other people have said and they have no clue either. Does it change what I think? In no way so move on to someone that may believe what you say......
novarone72 2 years ago
"just repeating what other people have said and they have no clue either" ... and this is how I know you're lying about your age being 37. only a kid, a teen or a somewhat impaired person would make a statement like that. The are degrees of reliability for anything on the web. not every source is clueless, not every source is "anti-mormon". i only get my info from sources I can verify. the fact that you don't understand this reflects on your youth... or your intelligence.
divinehumanism 2 years ago
well of course Im not 37 you twit Im a kid, my parents dont even know Im on here.......paaaahleeeese give me a break
novarone72 2 years ago
the twit is you... i was never fooled.
divinehumanism 2 years ago
aahh and I see you have all male friends on your channel hmmm are you gay? Is that why you left the church? Yes of course it makes sense now same as Kaileo1 hes gay too, because you could not live your lifestyle THATS the chip on your shoulder well good luck to you, you would not be the first gay person to try and bring the church down.......LOSERS and HYPOCRITES full of hate say no more....
novarone72 2 years ago
Next.......
novarone72 2 years ago
pppffftttt and who cares if you read them or not....like I care?? whatever
novarone72 2 years ago
Why do you keep responding?? What a dill
novarone72 2 years ago
oh and another thing to put in your bonnet of personal issues.......not only do I not debate my beliefs but I also do not debate lies or untruths, so unless you can come up with anything of substance OBJECTIVELY hey then mate Im all ears.........
novarone72 2 years ago
dude, this is proof of how stupid you are. i gave you substance and you either ignored it or didn't recognize it. i pointed out how a respected mormon scholar showed that JS had 33 wives. they were obviously used to satisfy his lust for women and girls. that's why I asked you if you're OK with having a sex addict and paedophile as your church founder... remember?
no lie there... your OWN church member wrote it! massive fail on your part.
divinehumanism 2 years ago
oh and let me tell you something....in all this rhetoric with you and the other dude who gave up btw not anything you have both said has changed my mind or my feelings in any way, shape or form so carry on till you are blue in the face.....mate......you are wasting your time but hey Im having a great time.....very amusing to say the least......
novarone72 2 years ago
but like i said...mate.....you are not interested in what I say or what I believe you just dont like the fact that I DO BELIEVE and that seems to rile you no end....do I have issues?? No mate and even if I did you would be the last person I would tell.......dont you have anything better to do in your pathetic little life?
novarone72 2 years ago
nah, it doesn't rile me. i just shake my head at how stubborn and dumb you are :)
divinehumanism 2 years ago
You know I dont give a crap about what you think or how you think I feel because you dont know me, I dont have issues with what I believe You are the one that has issues that is why you made the first comment duuuh and yes I am fine with that.......because it may have been founded by him but the church belongs the Jesus Christ, hopefully somewhere in your study you came acorss that piece of info
novarone72 2 years ago
You arent doing too bad for someone accusing me of name calling......heres a name for you ....how about hypocrite??
novarone72 2 years ago
yea so bring it on.......stupid
novarone72 2 years ago
Just proves a point that when you throw in stuff like that you dont really want to debate you just want to start an argument so you can be RIGHT but just like I told the other moron, I dont have to answer to such insignificant, small-minded people like yourself that do not have a clue and hide behind the pretence that they want to 'help' me paaahleeeese, what do you care about me?? yea right you drongo ning nong and thats putting it nicely...
novarone72 2 years ago
Man, you're stupid! Too dumb to do some actual research, so you push your head into the sand! The Mormon church's own website "Family Search" lists 24 of Joseph Smith's wives! And respected, faithful Mormon historian Todd Compton, in his book "In Sacred Loneliness" has proof of the 33. You can get his book thru Deseret Book and of course Amazon. See for yourself! See for yourself that Joseph Smith was consumed by his lust for women and girls!
divinehumanism 2 years ago
Hmm you dont believe but you spend time researching Mormon literature, is that so you can give it your own interpretation? You pretend to be concerned about my well-being, but its obvious that you are the one confused. I bet you were an unloved child because seriously you have issues and need some very intensive therapy because you have an even BIGGER chip on your shoulder, and if Im so dumb, why do you keep replying duuh
novarone72 2 years ago
Mate, you have got to stop projecting your feelings of being unloved onto other people! So funny how Mormons always think that those who disagree with them are unhappy, and then Mormons project their own feelings of inadequacy onto their opponents. Pathetic.
So you're OK having a paedophile and sex addict as the founder of your church?
divinehumanism 2 years ago
"If a friend, or even a stranger, was in a religion that was false, wouldn't you want to help them see the error of their ways? That's why we do this"
Thats what you said previously, that insinuates that you want to 'help' me hahaha thats the biggest BS ever so dont try and use that line ok? You do this because thats what apostates do to make themselves feel better like they know something that only they know blah blah blah Ive heard it all before, YOU are not my friend YOU need help go get it
novarone72 2 years ago
"this is what apostates do"....
actually, cult members convince themselves that no one outside the cult could possibly have any kind of truth, or have any well intentioned motives. so in that respect the mormon cult has done a fine job on you... you're too brain-washed to try doing even a little research.
and the funny thing is, how could it hurt you to look at something other than church doctine? if it's not true, then you'll know it. if it is true, you'll be glad you escaped.
divinehumanism 2 years ago
Man you dont get it do you? Heres the the thing I do know its true and I have looked at all the stuff out there, the anti-mormon literature, the apostates, and nothing has convinced me or made me want to change the way I feel or live, I am very happy regardless of what anyone says, why would I want to change something that works for me? Now if you have an issue with that then I suggest you find someone that believes what you are saying but if you want to carry on then so be it....
novarone72 2 years ago
If you want to carry on in darkness, stubborn as can be, fine with me. But if you don't like what I say, then why do you keep responding? How stupid.
divinehumanism 2 years ago
Oh Im not in darkness not at all, I lead a very happy and healthy life and you are just annoyed because I do not agree with you or see things your way..... well tough....get over it.......how stupid indeed
novarone72 2 years ago
Look kid, keep imagining things if you wish. I'm doing this purely as a lark, since i know you're too ignorant and stubborn to understand. i think it's funny how you dream up your silly little excuses and thing you're so smart. it's like a kid who's at a buffet restaurant but will only eat one food, even tho there's dozens more to try. I just keep responding to see how long I can keep you going. i don't even read half of your many many responses... just enough to write back.
divinehumanism 2 years ago
Nor do I so get over it
novarone72 2 years ago
Na youre just peeved because I wont give in......live with it mate
novarone72 2 years ago
sorry kid, not peeved... just laughing at you.
divinehumanism 2 years ago
Sorry not your kid and thank you, Ive been told I have a wonderful sense of humour............
novarone72 2 years ago
laughing at your stupidity, kid.
divinehumanism 2 years ago
small things amuse small minds.......billy
novarone72 2 years ago
yeah, and your brain is def small. how amusing.
divinehumanism 2 years ago
anyway dude ill check you out lata NOT!! Im off to fix a friends computer......maybe Charles Darwin might throw some light on computer technology you think??
novarone72 2 years ago
you and kaileo1 should shack up together lol you have a lot in common......weird
novarone72 2 years ago
Oh yeah true religion is for the weak that's why your whole country was settled by convicts, maybe you should take a closer look at the true owners of Australia and uhhh they look very similar to homo sapiens
novarone72 2 years ago
Most convicts scoffed at religion, so yeah, that's exactly why strong convicts settled Australia, you nong.
divinehumanism 2 years ago
yea true thats why they were crooks....ning nong
novarone72 2 years ago
do try to make some sense before you post a comment.
divinehumanism 2 years ago
if you dont understand thats your problem....mate
novarone72 2 years ago
hey drongo, it doesn't work that way... you need to say something intelligent first!
did you know that Joseph Smith was a paedophile? he started plural marriage so that he could sleep with the 15 and 14 year old kids that he married-- not to mention all the other females he lusted after. he had about 33 wives. the older ones were usually widows with money. others were still married to their orig husbands when they were "sealed" to JS. there was about 8 kids from all this.
some "prophet"!
divinehumanismm 2 years ago
oh yea some intelligence you have typical propaganda from all apostates so yea come back when you havent been listening to your hairdresser.....drongo from the congo blah blah
novarone72 2 years ago
You aint a friend and the only stranger is you.... Human evolution, or anthropogenesis, is the origin and evolution of Homo sapiens as a distinct species from other hominids, great apes and placental mammals....and Im dumb?? nong
novarone72 2 years ago
Yes, you are dumb. You implied that evolution means we're evolved from apes. Evolution has never said that. We do share a common ancestor, which is a VASTLY different concept. And humans have obviously evolved far more than apes have.
divinehumanism 2 years ago
well some humans have....but obviously some havent......over to you nong
novarone72 2 years ago
But that's just it....I don't have to so go and crawl back under your rock....I mean honestly who do you think you people are? You obviously don't come in here to listen to Elder McConkie, you are just trouble makers hey but you know what?/ Like I really care about people like you but uuuh I just like having the last word so bring it on, you will be saying bye bye just like the other obnoxious dude.......:)
novarone72 2 years ago
ahh an aussie aye no culture no religion say no more......
novarone72 2 years ago
divinehumanism how appropriate so I suppose you believe you evolved from an ape?? Then that makes a lot of sense.....
novarone72 2 years ago
Aussies have "no religion", huh? that's a compliment. religion is for the weak... for those who can't handle true rational thinking.
divinehumanism 2 years ago
If a friend, or even a stranger, was in a religion that was false, wouldn't you want to help them see the error of their ways? That's why we do this.
Wow, you're dumb. Evolution doesn't say that humans evolved from apes. Never did. You're a typical creationist--really knows nothing about evolution.
Don't be making asinine comments about "no culture" when you have no basic intelligence about science.
Yeah, it's obvious you like having the last word... no matter how stupid it is.
divinehumanism 2 years ago
Try to find a fulfilling life away from Youtube and be a productive and contributing member in society, that will do more for your spiritual well-being than any debate you will find in here.......if anything you have my sympathy.....
novarone72 2 years ago
Hey mate he's right, you haven't really debated him and you have been calling him names... don't you know your own church?
divinehumanism 2 years ago
I don't debate my beliefs and uuh Im not your mate bye bye
novarone72 2 years ago
don't be a nong, altho It's pretty obvious from reading your comments that you couldn't debate your beliefs even if you tried...
divinehumanism 2 years ago
Hmm typical you cant find a person with who to argue with....you want to be right, my point of view does not matter that is obvious from the dialogue, you are an apostate and you look for members, admit it, that is what you do, post radical statements to get a response so you can fuel your poor misguided beliefs, ohh the futility of it all.......as if you would want to debate a kid that was not that 'smart' 'naive' and 'believed in mythology' duuuh and double duuuh
novarone72 2 years ago
If you had anything of substance to say then maybe I would, but you just sound like any other apostate......besides why would you want to debate with a kid duuh
novarone72 2 years ago
I knew you weren't up for it. Bye.
Kaileo1 2 years ago
Anyone that finds out after 30 years he's been living a lie is a LOSER........good luck lol
novarone72 2 years ago
Naa you are on the crusade, you need all the luck you can get so Ill happily give you mine........loser
novarone72 2 years ago
If you will actually defend your church, and stop calling names (which is boring rather than offensive), then we can have a debate. Otherwise, good luck.
Kaileo1 2 years ago
Good luck in your crusade....you will need it
novarone72 2 years ago
ppppffffttttt you can't even answer that can you? you wasted 30 years of your life in something you did not believe in and Im not smart?? Yea right
novarone72 2 years ago
and incidentally while we are not evading questions, you did not answer mine, what did you believe in 30 years? what did you stand for in all that time?
novarone72 2 years ago
It was not answered because, 1. You haven't answered any of mine, & 2. It's not a question that involves the beliefs of the church, which is the topic.
Don't be naive. Obviously one thinks one has the truth, that's why one stays in an church-- for 30 years or more sometimes. Learning is a process... it's not always obvious that you're surrounded by false doctrine.
Sorry kid, but it's obvious that you don't know how to defend your church. Ask your mom and dad for help. Good luck.
Kaileo1 2 years ago
Well maybe you did not pray hard enough to know it was false doctrine or maybe you were a caterpillar that was just content to crawl in and out instead of a pillar in supporting the church.......the church will go on an dfunction as a 'house of order' with or without you, as for my beliefs they are mine and mine alone, they are not for the hardhearted.........and being patronising doesnt help your cause but like I really care......
novarone72 2 years ago
Good luck, kid.
Kaileo1 2 years ago
Do you have anything better to do than spend your life in here trying to disprove something that 13 million people believe? Do you seriously in your own mind think for one minute that someone as insignificant as you can bring this gospel down? You are joking
novarone72 2 years ago
Are you smart enough to know how to defend your small church?
Kaileo1 2 years ago
We all make choices, obviously you have made yours it's called free agency so you believe what you will and so will I........
novarone72 2 years ago
And the only one 'tearing down' is you.........you are so busy trying to prove the church is false, I am saying that I do not have to prove a thing to you, I do not know you, what you say makes no difference to me, but I think that what you are spouting means a whole lot to you......sad
novarone72 2 years ago
Again, you're evading answering any question... just like a kid or teenager does. It seems unfair to even try to engage you in debate, since you don't know how to debate or defend your faith. You're obviously too young to know enough about the doctrine of your own church.
Kaileo1 2 years ago
Then you didnt learn anything in 30 years of being a member..........I do not engage in debates about my testimony I do not need to....and unfortunately that's what you want to do......
novarone72 2 years ago
Challenging someone's faith is not tearing down. It's asking for a rational response to an accusation about your faith. I'm challenging what you believe... you're just calling me names. Do you even understand the difference?
Kaileo1 2 years ago
Who are you to challenge what I believe in? You just want to argue, you are a right fighter.......
novarone72 2 years ago
Lol you are entertaining I must admit because anyone reading this would read that you have repeated your statistics more than once, 30 years in the church, tell me what did you stand up for in all that time? When you were being an example and a role model in your callings? Im curious
novarone72 2 years ago