@silatk No videos yet. One of the things on the list is a handheld recorder but as a father of two toddlers I have to set my priorities accordingly. I am currently writing a book on the subject that I am going to publish on lulu. It will probably be done by the end of the month. I am probably going to get a lot of grief from xingyi guys across the board because I am going to step on some toes and lash out at a few "holy cows".
@weeg the impression that XYQ is a softball martial art and the sad fact is that in most cases these days that's a pretty much an accurate assessment of the skills they are observing.
@weeg Just because I found a niche in tiger style doesn't mean one of my students won't find theirs in another aspect of the style and if I began teaching them from my own narrow perspective then I would be guilty of watering it down so to speak. I guess I just get annoyed at the fact that nearly every video demo I see basically shows the same thing. Every time a guy shows an attack move it's always the same "push the guy backwards" and that in my opinion gives too many people
@weegbI'll be honest with you, I don't like the 5 elements. I have developed a whole series of fighting forms and techiques from tiger style as well as two man and linking forms and I practice those pretty much exclusively. they work for me and I have taken down Muay Thai and BJJ guys with them (because I also train regularly at an MMA school I am currently traing to be a Muay Thai instructor). But I still teach my personal students all the 5 elements and such.
@weegb I think that most XYQ in it's modern context has been shunted by the limited perspective of it's practitioners. I meet guys all the time that say their XYQ has a couple of kicks and that's it. My Dai/Shanxi style has a formidable amount of kicks from low, medium and high angles and they are used frequently in the combat techniques. Many of the people I have met don't really seem to be interested in hand to hand combat at all.
@TakgeyonBlackbelt Always happy to discuss various points on here so can you please elaborate. What do you define as internal power and how do you 'detect' it? Cheers!
@weegb What you are asking me I cover in the book I am currently writing on the subject to be published next year. I can't do it in 400 characters. Let's just suffice to say that as a lifelong practitioner of XYQ 90% of the people I encounter teaching or learning it don't have a clue. I am not making an inference to you specifically just stating an observed fact. I've had people who even studyied in China tell me this and that and then when they demonsrate it's pure muscular force.
Just to illustrate my point though, there is a progression to training in XYQ that must be observed. We westerners don't like to stand long periods in static stances to balance our bodies in the basic way that the afforementioned internal power can be manifested. There are two stages to internal power and those are the min jin and the an jin. The min jin is the external force. It originates from the ground and is channeled through the lower back and out through the abdomen.
The "dan tien" is actually rather passive in the process and simply represents the body's center of gravity. The flexion of the lumbar verterae in relation to the body' posture, whatever that may be is the root power or channel of the min jin. When all of these are alligned and in near perfect balance then this allows for the "chi" to freely flow. I am not going to get into a lengthy discussion on that subject as I do not have enough time. But the point I am making is that most XYQ practitioners
I observe simply don't have the original balance. When we are born we immediatley begin aquiring bad habits. We learn to write with either our right or left hand and neglect the other. We use our legs in a limited fashion and our tendons become rigid and unelastic. We suffer injuries which further restrict our movements and creat lopsided posture problems. These problems if not remedied prohibit us from manifesting the raw internal power that is the basis of XYQ. Therefore although one performs
The five elements in a beautiful fashion, if one has not established the original balance then one cannot hope to sucessfully channel the true internal energy and they appear as a beautiful vase yet empty of substance. In my life, of course other than my teacher I have encountered maybe two people who had a grasp of what true "soft power" is. Most people even on Chinese "master" applied a technique to me and was devoid of internal jin. He was quite suprised when I applied the same technique to
him with exponentially successful results. The an jin is not something that just "happens" once you are doing min jin successfully . It must be trained with that focus in mind and that is where I believe the majority of XYQ fall flat. It's difficult for me to elaborate at this level with such resricted space. But the name Xing Yi Quan is a coded reference to the progression in itself. Xing - meaning form is the min jin. Yi - is the mind and it's leading mastery of the form.
hence it is the an jin. Chuan is the highest jin and culmination of the afformentioned into one "mind one body" where min jin and an jin are no longer distinguishable from each other in feeling or execution. It is called hua jin. I cannot elaborate on the hua jin because I don't feel I have attained it yet as it represents an ultra high level of mastery. As stated earlier I simply cannot delve into the subject matter effectively in such a short apace as the comments section of youtube.
There are many people who claim to have a mastery of internal power that are still operating on the min jin level having never embraced the an jin for lack of proper training and preperation, wrong focus, or simply shoddy instruction. I have an eye for practitioners who are successfully operating at the an jin level 9not too many of those around). It was not my intention to be condescening or hostiIe
@TakgeyonBlackbelt I appreciate the lengthy response but to be honest no secrets in there. I am very much aware of the progression from obvious power or ming jin to hidden power or an jiin to "dissolved" (that's the description my teacher uses in Chinese) power or hua jin. And I totally understand the difficulty in those progressions as I have been practicing xingyi for 26 years and studied extensively in Beijing and Taigu, Shanxi Province. One of the best aspects of xingyi is the work needed.
@TakgeyonBlackbelt My oldest teacher in Taigu was 84 (sadly he is no longer with us) and had been practicing for 78 years. Understandably his skill level was immense, however while having lunch with him one day and commenting on his considerable skill, he stopped me and said, (roughly translated) "No. No. No. My skill is ok, but my teacher....now he had amazing skill. I hope to be that good some day." I love this attitude in that often permeates through the internal arts. :o)
@TakgeyonBlackbelt I firmly believe that I will always be working to improve on my skills and that is why there will never be the ever popular 'Master' in front of my name, however I was just curious how you 'detect' a power or force that is by it's nature hidden. I know that when practicing if I hit an opponent through a thai pad or kickshield I get honest biofeedback from them. I don't knock them half way across the room because the intention of xingyi is to disperse the energy into the target
@weegb I as well appreciate the lengthy reply. Please forgive me in assuming anything about your training and experience. But realize that your vidoes are one of hundreds circulating on youtube showing the exacut same thing. Perhaps you can manifest internal power but from the subtlety of your form I couldn't detect it just as you couldn't detect it if I were doing the same. I meet guys all the time who go on about this and that and what they know but when it comes time to deliver a strike
they've got nothing. About the penetrating blows. Yes there are strikes that disperse (as you put it) the force in the body but that is just one kind of striking force available. XYQ practs can strike like a cracking whipp or move the target as a professional boxer would it's up to them as well as some other manifestations that I wont go into at this time.
The problem with XYQ specifically in the west but also in China nowadays is that it seems to be suffering the same fate as other martial arts that were once very effective but have been watered down to the point they no longer can really be called by that name (Tae Kwon Do, Tai Ji). XYQ seems to have evolved into a "health" practice and among modern practitioners has lost most of it's martial core.
@TakgeyonBlackbelt With regards to being a westerner and not enjoying standing in one position for any length of time that's a bit of a sweeping generalization. I know plenty of students from all over the world studying xing yi and yi quan in Beijing who are happy to put in the time. When I began studying my teacher would leave me in santi for 15-20 minutes walk back, adjust an elbow or finger and then leave for another 20 minutes. She did not progress my studies until she knew I was ready.
@TakgeyonBlackbelt OK last one - I didn't actually believe you were being hostile, I was just curious on your interpretations. As I said in my first reply I am always happy to discuss these points as I know this can increase one's knowledge and awareness. :o)
@weegb I think that most XYQ in it's modern context has been shunted by the limited perspective of it's practitioners. I meet guys all the time that say their XYQ has a couple of kicks and that's it. My Dai/Shanxi style has a formidable amount of kicks from low, medium and high angles and they are used frequently in the combat techniques. Many of the people I have met don't really seem to be interested in hand to hand combat at all.
@silatk No videos yet. One of the things on the list is a handheld recorder but as a father of two toddlers I have to set my priorities accordingly. I am currently writing a book on the subject that I am going to publish on lulu. It will probably be done by the end of the month. I am probably going to get a lot of grief from xingyi guys across the board because I am going to step on some toes and lash out at a few "holy cows".
TakgeyonBlackbelt 2 months ago
@weeg the impression that XYQ is a softball martial art and the sad fact is that in most cases these days that's a pretty much an accurate assessment of the skills they are observing.
TakgeyonBlackbelt 5 months ago
@weeg Just because I found a niche in tiger style doesn't mean one of my students won't find theirs in another aspect of the style and if I began teaching them from my own narrow perspective then I would be guilty of watering it down so to speak. I guess I just get annoyed at the fact that nearly every video demo I see basically shows the same thing. Every time a guy shows an attack move it's always the same "push the guy backwards" and that in my opinion gives too many people
TakgeyonBlackbelt 5 months ago
@weegbI'll be honest with you, I don't like the 5 elements. I have developed a whole series of fighting forms and techiques from tiger style as well as two man and linking forms and I practice those pretty much exclusively. they work for me and I have taken down Muay Thai and BJJ guys with them (because I also train regularly at an MMA school I am currently traing to be a Muay Thai instructor). But I still teach my personal students all the 5 elements and such.
TakgeyonBlackbelt 5 months ago
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@weegb I think that most XYQ in it's modern context has been shunted by the limited perspective of it's practitioners. I meet guys all the time that say their XYQ has a couple of kicks and that's it. My Dai/Shanxi style has a formidable amount of kicks from low, medium and high angles and they are used frequently in the combat techniques. Many of the people I have met don't really seem to be interested in hand to hand combat at all.
TakgeyonBlackbelt 5 months ago
Nice ming jin. But I couldn't detect any internal power.
TakgeyonBlackbelt 5 months ago
@TakgeyonBlackbelt Always happy to discuss various points on here so can you please elaborate. What do you define as internal power and how do you 'detect' it? Cheers!
weegb 5 months ago
@weegb What you are asking me I cover in the book I am currently writing on the subject to be published next year. I can't do it in 400 characters. Let's just suffice to say that as a lifelong practitioner of XYQ 90% of the people I encounter teaching or learning it don't have a clue. I am not making an inference to you specifically just stating an observed fact. I've had people who even studyied in China tell me this and that and then when they demonsrate it's pure muscular force.
TakgeyonBlackbelt 5 months ago
Just to illustrate my point though, there is a progression to training in XYQ that must be observed. We westerners don't like to stand long periods in static stances to balance our bodies in the basic way that the afforementioned internal power can be manifested. There are two stages to internal power and those are the min jin and the an jin. The min jin is the external force. It originates from the ground and is channeled through the lower back and out through the abdomen.
TakgeyonBlackbelt 5 months ago
The "dan tien" is actually rather passive in the process and simply represents the body's center of gravity. The flexion of the lumbar verterae in relation to the body' posture, whatever that may be is the root power or channel of the min jin. When all of these are alligned and in near perfect balance then this allows for the "chi" to freely flow. I am not going to get into a lengthy discussion on that subject as I do not have enough time. But the point I am making is that most XYQ practitioners
TakgeyonBlackbelt 5 months ago
I observe simply don't have the original balance. When we are born we immediatley begin aquiring bad habits. We learn to write with either our right or left hand and neglect the other. We use our legs in a limited fashion and our tendons become rigid and unelastic. We suffer injuries which further restrict our movements and creat lopsided posture problems. These problems if not remedied prohibit us from manifesting the raw internal power that is the basis of XYQ. Therefore although one performs
TakgeyonBlackbelt 5 months ago
The five elements in a beautiful fashion, if one has not established the original balance then one cannot hope to sucessfully channel the true internal energy and they appear as a beautiful vase yet empty of substance. In my life, of course other than my teacher I have encountered maybe two people who had a grasp of what true "soft power" is. Most people even on Chinese "master" applied a technique to me and was devoid of internal jin. He was quite suprised when I applied the same technique to
TakgeyonBlackbelt 5 months ago
him with exponentially successful results. The an jin is not something that just "happens" once you are doing min jin successfully . It must be trained with that focus in mind and that is where I believe the majority of XYQ fall flat. It's difficult for me to elaborate at this level with such resricted space. But the name Xing Yi Quan is a coded reference to the progression in itself. Xing - meaning form is the min jin. Yi - is the mind and it's leading mastery of the form.
TakgeyonBlackbelt 5 months ago
hence it is the an jin. Chuan is the highest jin and culmination of the afformentioned into one "mind one body" where min jin and an jin are no longer distinguishable from each other in feeling or execution. It is called hua jin. I cannot elaborate on the hua jin because I don't feel I have attained it yet as it represents an ultra high level of mastery. As stated earlier I simply cannot delve into the subject matter effectively in such a short apace as the comments section of youtube.
TakgeyonBlackbelt 5 months ago
There are many people who claim to have a mastery of internal power that are still operating on the min jin level having never embraced the an jin for lack of proper training and preperation, wrong focus, or simply shoddy instruction. I have an eye for practitioners who are successfully operating at the an jin level 9not too many of those around). It was not my intention to be condescening or hostiIe
TakgeyonBlackbelt 5 months ago
@TakgeyonBlackbelt I appreciate the lengthy response but to be honest no secrets in there. I am very much aware of the progression from obvious power or ming jin to hidden power or an jiin to "dissolved" (that's the description my teacher uses in Chinese) power or hua jin. And I totally understand the difficulty in those progressions as I have been practicing xingyi for 26 years and studied extensively in Beijing and Taigu, Shanxi Province. One of the best aspects of xingyi is the work needed.
weegb 5 months ago
@TakgeyonBlackbelt My oldest teacher in Taigu was 84 (sadly he is no longer with us) and had been practicing for 78 years. Understandably his skill level was immense, however while having lunch with him one day and commenting on his considerable skill, he stopped me and said, (roughly translated) "No. No. No. My skill is ok, but my teacher....now he had amazing skill. I hope to be that good some day." I love this attitude in that often permeates through the internal arts. :o)
weegb 5 months ago
@TakgeyonBlackbelt I firmly believe that I will always be working to improve on my skills and that is why there will never be the ever popular 'Master' in front of my name, however I was just curious how you 'detect' a power or force that is by it's nature hidden. I know that when practicing if I hit an opponent through a thai pad or kickshield I get honest biofeedback from them. I don't knock them half way across the room because the intention of xingyi is to disperse the energy into the target
weegb 5 months ago
@weegb I as well appreciate the lengthy reply. Please forgive me in assuming anything about your training and experience. But realize that your vidoes are one of hundreds circulating on youtube showing the exacut same thing. Perhaps you can manifest internal power but from the subtlety of your form I couldn't detect it just as you couldn't detect it if I were doing the same. I meet guys all the time who go on about this and that and what they know but when it comes time to deliver a strike
TakgeyonBlackbelt 5 months ago
they've got nothing. About the penetrating blows. Yes there are strikes that disperse (as you put it) the force in the body but that is just one kind of striking force available. XYQ practs can strike like a cracking whipp or move the target as a professional boxer would it's up to them as well as some other manifestations that I wont go into at this time.
TakgeyonBlackbelt 5 months ago
The problem with XYQ specifically in the west but also in China nowadays is that it seems to be suffering the same fate as other martial arts that were once very effective but have been watered down to the point they no longer can really be called by that name (Tae Kwon Do, Tai Ji). XYQ seems to have evolved into a "health" practice and among modern practitioners has lost most of it's martial core.
TakgeyonBlackbelt 5 months ago
@TakgeyonBlackbelt With regards to being a westerner and not enjoying standing in one position for any length of time that's a bit of a sweeping generalization. I know plenty of students from all over the world studying xing yi and yi quan in Beijing who are happy to put in the time. When I began studying my teacher would leave me in santi for 15-20 minutes walk back, adjust an elbow or finger and then leave for another 20 minutes. She did not progress my studies until she knew I was ready.
weegb 5 months ago
@TakgeyonBlackbelt OK last one - I didn't actually believe you were being hostile, I was just curious on your interpretations. As I said in my first reply I am always happy to discuss these points as I know this can increase one's knowledge and awareness. :o)
weegb 5 months ago
@weegb I think that most XYQ in it's modern context has been shunted by the limited perspective of it's practitioners. I meet guys all the time that say their XYQ has a couple of kicks and that's it. My Dai/Shanxi style has a formidable amount of kicks from low, medium and high angles and they are used frequently in the combat techniques. Many of the people I have met don't really seem to be interested in hand to hand combat at all.
TakgeyonBlackbelt 5 months ago
great
hsing i, praiyng mantis and wing tsun are similar.
Henriquez1988 7 months ago
you have a unique crispiness to your form. Well done! not a bad santi either
randyds5 1 year ago