Great video… You did not even mention that the gun will eject hot brass right into your eyeball with the gangster grip. My weak hand cants the gun inward slightly. However that is due to the 5 lbs worth of plates and screws in the shoulder. (long story)
@ZombieTactics Awesome video, best points. But I thought about it. When you have a person standing straight, the 0° is best for hitting that. For the gangsta shooting position, imagine a gang war: You're standing on the street and enemies line up like this: IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII. In this case you could use the gangsta position, because the recoil of one shot gets you on another target. You mention by-standers, but has anyone ever met a gangsta who would care about them? Gangsta is used by gangstas
the CAR also has in it an excellent weapon retention ability. it is very difficult to get a weapon away from someone using this techinque. i have tried it on some people with an unloaded weapon of course and i tell you they could'nt get it from me.
i took the CAR class from Paul himself last April in Chino Ca. and this system is great. it was a 2 day course and very demanding as Paul will change conditions on you in an instant. i have to say that if you were in a gunfight with Paul i doubt any of us would survive. he is quite proficient in this system and i have found that the CAR is great for CQB or shooting from a vehicle it also can be used for the M4 type rifles. the shooting sequence is quite simple but challenging in a timed event.
Shooting any gun sideways is also bad for accuracy. When zeroed upright, the barrel points slightly upward so that the bullet crosses line-of-sight twice, once going up and once falling down, because barrel alignment and gravity work along the same vertical plane. Turn the gun sideways and the bullet will strike low and to the side. Zero the gun sideways, you can get one LOS intersection, but after, the bullet will stray along two planes: vertically for gravity and horizontally for the barrel.
You didn't even mention trying to reload in Gangsta, or doing FTF drills... The real reason Gangstas shoot that way is because that's the way the gun came in the box...
Great video, the only problem I have with it is the video have a bad guy gangster button so that when a gangster comes to view it he will not be able to see it. I like it when the bad guys shoot this way and sends arounds all around me, because it gives me a chance on how to respond to him on the correct method of shooting not that he will get to try it out on anyone else again if you know what I mean.
Shouldn't we let all the so-called gangsta's hold their guns in the gangsta fashion?? Now, if they learn to shoot properly, then we all need to worry a heck of a lot more!
I hope the gangstaz aren't watching this video. I prefer to be shot at from the gansta position vs a stable platform, lol. Thanks for a great vid. This is a jewel of a channel. I'm glad I stumbled upon it. Quite frankly, I'm surprised you don't have three times the views you do. I have a few vids but I can't seem to find the time to do te kind of videos I'd like to. It's good to see someone else doing them.
@ZombieTactics Center Axis Relock has recieved a lot of resistance from the shooting community. I'd stay open minded about it, however, as it wasn't so long ago that to shoot a pistol using both hands was considered incorrect.
You should ACTUALLY just cant the pistol a little bit inboard to get optimal natural angle with your forearm and wrist, but don't take it from me, take it from James Yeager...
@RRFCaptain A slight can't is a very good natural shooting position for one-handed shooting. I've trained with Tactical Response, and there are a couple of exercises which demonstrate this aptly.
I shot a gun "gangsta" style just to test the function of my new gun. The patterns were the worst I had ever seen, some bullets not even hitting the frames that held up the targets. I mean it was just all over the place. By no means am I a good shot but when I stopped shooting that way and did it the right way I had about 2" groupings at 12 yards standing.
As far as I know, the gansta stance was originally used because it allowed a filmmaker to show both an actor's face and his gun in dramatic head-on closeups. So invariably people associated it with people being badass. I had no idea people actually think it is a tactical stance! It's horrendously unsupported.
As for CAR, I'm going to try it out next time I get to the range.
In the CAR system you do not cant your hand as much as you demo here and you bring the elbow into body but it held against body but thanks for posting for all to see. I trained with Paul Castle in CAR and am glad to see people showing it does have validity in its use.
Thank you your presentation. I didn't check all of your comments on what I'm about to ask you, but I didn't see you address the "gangsta punch" as the weapon is fired...lol. I'm just kidding. I appreciate your hard work and in depth analysis on this subject.
I totally agree with you; "Gangsta" method is just stylized movie crap. I heard though, when shooting underneath a vehicle, that having the sights parallel to the ground is an advantage. Is there any advantage to that over a normal prone position?
@ZombieTactics I'm not familiar with the term "urban prone"; the position was described to me as the shooter lays on his/her side instead of stomach. Is that a version of "urban prone"? Also, the "urban prone" would only be used if the tactical situation call for it?
@GhostFishSlayer Yep you got it ... sorry to be slinging jargon at you, lol. Yep, urban prone is used when you can only find low-lying cover (like a curb) or need to shoot under something (like a car or fence).
Hey ZT, great video and I agree with you totally. I'll put my USPSA match skills up against the Gangsta method any day. The real good news is, most "Gangstas" will never see this, so if that gun fight ever does happen, my money is on the non-Gangsta!
If a "gangsta" really watched this video they might think to themselves "wow I'm a moron, what else am I doing wrong?" I highly doubt that any gangster turns to youtube for advice on how to bring down officers. My father has been an officer of the state for over 37 years and teaching proper use is never a bad thing. A criminal will commit a crime with or without youtube. "rockindaglockin" needs to go back to school and shut up.
@John234pwns My general impression is that C.A.R. really develops retention techniques to the Nth degree. It's almost like the system is designed around retention from the get-go.
SAR recent video got me onto your series. You have a great way of explaining things, like gangsta vs CAR. I only wish you'd put out two-a-week on the food prep series!
I have taken a course in CAR system and it works...it's really comfortable. Understand...the application of this technique is for extream close quarters. Use this technique when someone it trying to take you gun out of your hands. You learn how to cradle the gun...break away from your target and enguage at the same time. This however is not for long range bullseye shooting.
Fucking so called "Experts" criticize the CAR to be inferior to the weaver stance,cause "the armor is in front of you and you will get hit on your sides". Yeah you're gonna let them shoot you before you shoot. Weaver is so old,its about time we get something modern,pair it up with brutal martial arts and a new set of CQB warriors will be made. (any suggestions for a brutal but efficient martial arts?)
I like your videos... Thanks for using common sense. I have a question about the technique at the end of this video. Doesn't the C.A.R. technique go against the reasoning of shooting vertically for purposes of recoil? You mentioned the height of a target verses the width of a target. When would the C.A.R. technique be better than the standard position.
@elust1010 I don't pretend to be an expert at C.A.R. but it should be known that there are 4 main shooting positions in C.A.R., 3 of which have some degree of "cant" in the grip angle. All 4 positions are anatomically correct and do not exhibit the problems shown with the "gangsta" sideways grip. As much as I have studied it so far, C.A.R. seems to excel at close range shooting and room-clearance or tight quarters tactics, in cases where the gun is already drawn.
I was told another reason never to hold a semi-automatic gangsta style. It involves the potential trajectory of the spent cartridge looping out and burning the forehead of the shooter. Ouch!
One "gansta" style was use in chinas military and police when they used full auto 9mm/.45 broomhandel mausers. Performing room cleaning they tilted gun on ganstastyle and allowed fullauto recoil to drive gun in sweeping motion, spreading bullets horizontaly across the room.
@RockinDaGlockin Are you really that poor at spelling and grammar? Did you pass second grade? tech?! ...really?Please don't tell me you're a cop, I hope you're just a little kid trolling the "zombie" videos.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
you just killed 3 cops but posting this vid ass hole! only fucking stupid ass kids shot that way. why would you want show someone that is so stupid to to shot that way how to really kill someone?
@RockinDaGlockin You might want to delete this and try again. It would be good to form actual sentences. For what's it's worth ... the police officers in my family don't share your opinion. It's a simple matter of demographics ... "gangstas" aren't really watching my channel.
if you ever have a chance to work with Paul Castle it is well worth the cost of the course. CAR is an amazing tactic, but an even more amazing mindset to have in your "toolbox", a must for any Military or Law Enforcement in CQB.
@pjgsxr66 It's absolutely in the planning stages. I plan to do a "tour" of training centers ... IDP, Gunsite, Magpul, Frontsight, etc, ... of course vids on all of them!
What do you think about the new show The Walking Dead? they have played about 3 episodes so far. Its great If you havent seen it take a look if you are intrested.
@Sccuba182 Yup ... already did a video on it, and I was/am a fan of the graphic novel series as well. I am getting it through iTunes, which gets me access to all sorts of "behind the scenes" stuff too!
Great info and great subject, ZT, as always. Good demonstration of what is common sense to anyone with any professional training in firearms. If the gangsta style was so accurate, guys like Dave Sevigny would be using it. He wouldn't care about tradition, he just wants to be faster and more accurate. Given that he's faster than pretty much any man alive with a pistol, I'll take that dude's word for it that the way he is doing it is the best way, period.
This Video reminded me of a part in a crappy movie (Dead Noon) where the guy, surrounded out in the desert by undead demons, takes a MAC-10 turns it sideways, fires off a magazine full auto and lets the recoil help him turn in a semi circle. The only problem is that maybe ten percent of the bullets fired hit a target, the rest just provided help turning in his semi circle.
I dont think it makes you look cool at all. It makes you look like an ignorant criminal gang member whos begging to be put out of his poverty stricken government handout misery.
@ZombieTactics - Yah I do it all the time, post on the topic at hand and then further into the video commented on something else. I need to watch the whole video and then comment haha.
I've seen a spin off of a draw which (I don't recall what step) of shooting before you press out your firearm, I think it has something to do with the CAR system and you do have your firearm canted a and close to your body and it makes me think of the sideways gangsta (idiot) position.. Nice video !!
I just finished a two day CAR class. Initially, I tried to learn CAR from watching videos and reading online materials. To do it right, it really takes a coach to get everything right. I noticed a couple of mistakes that you are making that I also made, before coaching.
In my opinion, CAR is the way to use a pistol. It is extremely fast and combat accurate. I was hitting center mass moving, switching hands at 40 feet using the extended position. And I am a beginner.
@mhfisc I absolutely do not consider myself an expert at C.A.R. at all. I just found this issue of how the CAR cant maintains radius/ulna stability particularly interesting. I am certain that there are many aspects of the system which cannot be adequately understood without training from a qualified instructor. I hope to take IDP Systems training sometime on 2011.
Gangsta shooting position provides many advantages like....................JK!. Now that say, shooting one handed(should be practiced in that) I do give the gun about a 20-30 degree tilt I find it's pretty nice. I don't care for CAR that say I have never tried it with a real recoiling firearm just a BB pistol. So there is no recoil to deal with. That might make a difference. Does CA let you CC?
@Mrcaffinebean - In certain counties you might get away with it but if you live in Los Angeles, Orange County, San Diego cty you may as well forget it.. Those are probably the hardest counties to get a CCW.. Now if you're in Ventura county and live semi in the boonies you might get away with a permit but shit I live about 20 mins from downtown LA so a CCW permit is most likely out of the ? You can unload open carry but it seems to pose more BS than it's worth from what ive seen.
@mixwell1983 That's what I thought. If you get a permit in one county can you carry in another? Also how is unloaded defined? No round in the chamber or no mag in the gun at all?
@Mrcaffinebean - Damn that's a good questing.. unloaded open carry means no loaded mag in the firearm, you can (from what I hear) have your unloaded firearm open carry on one side and a loaded mag on the other side open carried also but there have been many debates and it appears to be a lot of yellow tape that make it almost unappealing to try.. there are videos on youtube of peeps excercising the right if you wanted to check it out.
I do find IF I am shooting single handed and I rotate it 10/20 deg to my centerline it is easier to hold the pistol on target/get a faster follow up shot.
I've been trying the CAR for a week now, and honestly I'm not getting it. I spent 36 years practicing fast draw, and 25 years with point and combat shooting. I'll keep trying it, but it just seems to go against everything I've learned. I feel it has merit which is a good add on.
Great vid. Biometrics aside, the gangsta position does not allow for elevation adjustment when sighting. Gravity pulls the bullet down no matter what position the gun is in. Shooting a pistol well past 15 feet is hard enough when you hold it right.
Great explanation/demonstration. I could see that the CAR method was different from "gangsta-style" shooting, but this really helped to explain how and why. Articulate and thorough as always, ZT.
I do believe the "gangsta" grip originated with "gangstas" carrying the gun in the front of their waistband. If you draw from there, it's just lifting your arm straight up and out, you have your "gangsta" grip. On a side note, the ones who originated this group are note exactly known to be the most hard working members of society, so why should they not be lazy on the draw too?:)
Excellent explanation and comparative of the two at the end. I've been checking out the CAR system as much as I am able to do online, and have decided to practice classic shooting for a while before trying it, so as not to form bad habits. But in a few months when I am more comfortable, and can extend good groupings out to 25 yards...I'll be giving CAR a go.
@UrbanCombatSurvivor Yep ... I am presently of the opinion that CAR is not a "primary" technique, but rather an excellent answer to certain specialized scenarios or tactics. Getting a solid Iso or Weaver technique well-practiced is still the best foundation, IMHO.
I was taught that when shooting with one hand it is biomechanically advantageous to cant your wrist inward ~15-20 degrees to make the gun more stable. I find that this is true and works very well. This is NOT gangsta style, whereas, that style is 90 degrees from the vertical. This is only utilized with one handed shooting.
As to the CAR method, I was watching COPS on the other day (and yes I watch COPS, but not for the same reasons other people probably watch it...I watch it as a mini tactics session) Anyway, some US Marshals were using C.A.R. in a house sweep. Couple things I noted...1) They were in a confined space during the usage of it. 2) they were using it to clear areas above them (attic, and going upstairs).
Ok, I've got to post a few thoughts on this...First the Gangsta style is completely invalid for the reasons you mentioned (and in a fight I hope the guy shooting at me in using the gangsta style). In addition, the gangsta style doesn't take advantage of gravity during recoil and causes more instability for followup shots. There is more of a tendency to string horizontally. I could go on and on....
I think you assume people actually aim when using the "gangsta" style. Even in movies where they use it they seem to take more of a spray and pray approach. lol
Very nice comparison and excellent explanations as to why each style does or doesn't work. Thanks for the vid!
People actually suggest "gangsta" methods? A few cop buddies of mine actually like the fact that most people who shoot at them are utilizing that method. :-)
I actually like the fact that this stupid method of holding a gun exists. It allows you to quickly identify how skilled an individual is with firearms. If they hold it "gangsta" style, they likely know dick all about guns, and taking it from them probably won't be a challenge. You'll be able to beat the shit out of them with their own gun before they even realize what just happened.
Maybe the reason 85% of all handgun shootings survive is because of all the "gangsta" style shots fired that miss center of mass. LOL
Very educational video. I had never heard of center axis re-lock before this. What I enjoy about your videos are the references to actual "science", since so much of what is out there on YouTube or in most gun magazines is not.
Just wait till the Crips and Bloods get a hold of this video! They will thoughtfully consider the material presented here and re-design their whole approach to weapons training ;P
sight picture fool. point the heater mofo and empty the clip on sum dumb ass. thats how we do it. boo yah!!!! stupid that people actually think this is a valid position to shoot the gun. o look a balloon.lol. you are one scruffy kid. we shoot point blank dude. it dont matter where the sights are.
I'm here because of Splinter Cell: Conviction.
FunVanDriver 1 month ago
this is the most technical info to explain why someone shooting a handgun like that is a retard
TheTacticalShooter 2 months ago
Great video… You did not even mention that the gun will eject hot brass right into your eyeball with the gangster grip. My weak hand cants the gun inward slightly. However that is due to the 5 lbs worth of plates and screws in the shoulder. (long story)
SurvivalReality 3 months ago
I heard that slightly rotating your hand when shooting one handed can actually help. Not a full 90 degrees, but maybe about 45.
AlphaJulietBravo1 3 months ago
@AlphaJulietBravo1 You heard correctly. The exact angle varies from person, but it's usually around 45 degrees, and not more.
ZombieTactics 3 months ago
@ZombieTactics Awesome video, best points. But I thought about it. When you have a person standing straight, the 0° is best for hitting that. For the gangsta shooting position, imagine a gang war: You're standing on the street and enemies line up like this: IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII. In this case you could use the gangsta position, because the recoil of one shot gets you on another target. You mention by-standers, but has anyone ever met a gangsta who would care about them? Gangsta is used by gangstas
AdamsTeinz 1 month ago
C.A.R. is amazing, but i can hold a good sight picture holding it "Gangsta" style. but i have steady hands.
Pack267 3 months ago
sad to say that Paul Castle the developer of the CAR system passed away september 14 2011 after a long battle with cancer.
chris11511 5 months ago
@chris11511 Yep ... RIP
ZombieTactics 5 months ago
the CAR also has in it an excellent weapon retention ability. it is very difficult to get a weapon away from someone using this techinque. i have tried it on some people with an unloaded weapon of course and i tell you they could'nt get it from me.
chris11511 5 months ago
i took the CAR class from Paul himself last April in Chino Ca. and this system is great. it was a 2 day course and very demanding as Paul will change conditions on you in an instant. i have to say that if you were in a gunfight with Paul i doubt any of us would survive. he is quite proficient in this system and i have found that the CAR is great for CQB or shooting from a vehicle it also can be used for the M4 type rifles. the shooting sequence is quite simple but challenging in a timed event.
chris11511 5 months ago
Shooting any gun sideways is also bad for accuracy. When zeroed upright, the barrel points slightly upward so that the bullet crosses line-of-sight twice, once going up and once falling down, because barrel alignment and gravity work along the same vertical plane. Turn the gun sideways and the bullet will strike low and to the side. Zero the gun sideways, you can get one LOS intersection, but after, the bullet will stray along two planes: vertically for gravity and horizontally for the barrel.
Shanockdotcom 5 months ago
Comment removed
Shanockdotcom 5 months ago
Just found your channel. Good Stuff!
You didn't even mention trying to reload in Gangsta, or doing FTF drills... The real reason Gangstas shoot that way is because that's the way the gun came in the box...
TheyCallMeMrDougie 6 months ago
Good video dude! Google "Bird man gangsta sights" its a fake print ad for iron sights you put on the side of your glock. its funny lol
Ilovemyak47762 6 months ago
Great video, the only problem I have with it is the video have a bad guy gangster button so that when a gangster comes to view it he will not be able to see it. I like it when the bad guys shoot this way and sends arounds all around me, because it gives me a chance on how to respond to him on the correct method of shooting not that he will get to try it out on anyone else again if you know what I mean.
Glock n Load,
Mike
videosbymike 7 months ago
Shouldn't we let all the so-called gangsta's hold their guns in the gangsta fashion?? Now, if they learn to shoot properly, then we all need to worry a heck of a lot more!
TheBadAssKiller 7 months ago
@ZombieTactics I have to say this is a beautiful video. And also a note, you look quite gangsta when holding the gun in the ganxta-position :-D
AdamsTeinz 7 months ago
If you shoot gangsta style you're gonna need a good set of HoodSights.
DoubleOhQuang 7 months ago
Thugs, keep shooting sideways. It worked for Tupac Shakur, and he personally trained Spetsnaz troops.
RadarGuidedVermin 8 months ago
Just tell the thugs they're doing it right so it will be easier to cut them down if the need should arise.
RadarGuidedVermin 8 months ago
I hope the gangstaz aren't watching this video. I prefer to be shot at from the gansta position vs a stable platform, lol. Thanks for a great vid. This is a jewel of a channel. I'm glad I stumbled upon it. Quite frankly, I'm surprised you don't have three times the views you do. I have a few vids but I can't seem to find the time to do te kind of videos I'd like to. It's good to see someone else doing them.
markquimby82 9 months ago 3
@markquimby82 Yep, I'm the best kept secret on youtube, lol. Thanks for the kind words.
ZombieTactics 9 months ago
@ZombieTactics Center Axis Relock has recieved a lot of resistance from the shooting community. I'd stay open minded about it, however, as it wasn't so long ago that to shoot a pistol using both hands was considered incorrect.
benner2000 5 months ago
@benner2000 It remains an open question for me. I find the concept fascinating, and hope to train with a qualified CAR instructor soon.
ZombieTactics 5 months ago
You should ACTUALLY just cant the pistol a little bit inboard to get optimal natural angle with your forearm and wrist, but don't take it from me, take it from James Yeager...
RRFCaptain 10 months ago
@RRFCaptain A slight can't is a very good natural shooting position for one-handed shooting. I've trained with Tactical Response, and there are a couple of exercises which demonstrate this aptly.
ZombieTactics 10 months ago
I shot a gun "gangsta" style just to test the function of my new gun. The patterns were the worst I had ever seen, some bullets not even hitting the frames that held up the targets. I mean it was just all over the place. By no means am I a good shot but when I stopped shooting that way and did it the right way I had about 2" groupings at 12 yards standing.
Peidmonte89 10 months ago
As far as I know, the gansta stance was originally used because it allowed a filmmaker to show both an actor's face and his gun in dramatic head-on closeups. So invariably people associated it with people being badass. I had no idea people actually think it is a tactical stance! It's horrendously unsupported.
As for CAR, I'm going to try it out next time I get to the range.
RoSebastian 10 months ago
In the CAR system you do not cant your hand as much as you demo here and you bring the elbow into body but it held against body but thanks for posting for all to see. I trained with Paul Castle in CAR and am glad to see people showing it does have validity in its use.
RHTNY 11 months ago
@RHTNY Thanks for the clarification. I'm sure I have much to learn regarding this technique.
ZombieTactics 11 months ago
@ZombieTactics No problem. Get there brother. It'll change your life and views but keep it up for now!!
RHTNY 11 months ago
Great video. Very in depth point of view. Now I know not to shot it like it came out of the box.
jrc4197 11 months ago
Thank you your presentation. I didn't check all of your comments on what I'm about to ask you, but I didn't see you address the "gangsta punch" as the weapon is fired...lol. I'm just kidding. I appreciate your hard work and in depth analysis on this subject.
hondrifter 11 months ago
I totally agree with you; "Gangsta" method is just stylized movie crap. I heard though, when shooting underneath a vehicle, that having the sights parallel to the ground is an advantage. Is there any advantage to that over a normal prone position?
GhostFishSlayer 11 months ago
@GhostFishSlayer If you are talking about "urban prone" ... well it's probably the only way you can shoot at that point in time.
ZombieTactics 11 months ago
@ZombieTactics I'm not familiar with the term "urban prone"; the position was described to me as the shooter lays on his/her side instead of stomach. Is that a version of "urban prone"? Also, the "urban prone" would only be used if the tactical situation call for it?
GhostFishSlayer 11 months ago
@GhostFishSlayer Yep you got it ... sorry to be slinging jargon at you, lol. Yep, urban prone is used when you can only find low-lying cover (like a curb) or need to shoot under something (like a car or fence).
ZombieTactics 11 months ago
Sam Fisher!
Menfist100 11 months ago
So, pretty much it's good for a close quarter/tensed situation. Am I right or am I getting this wrong?
KronicKillaz 11 months ago
@KronicKillaz C.A.R. excels at CQB situations, especially where weapons retention is at issue.
ZombieTactics 11 months ago
Hey ZT, great video and I agree with you totally. I'll put my USPSA match skills up against the Gangsta method any day. The real good news is, most "Gangstas" will never see this, so if that gun fight ever does happen, my money is on the non-Gangsta!
weavdog12 1 year ago
If a "gangsta" really watched this video they might think to themselves "wow I'm a moron, what else am I doing wrong?" I highly doubt that any gangster turns to youtube for advice on how to bring down officers. My father has been an officer of the state for over 37 years and teaching proper use is never a bad thing. A criminal will commit a crime with or without youtube. "rockindaglockin" needs to go back to school and shut up.
KatotownUSA 1 year ago
So what advantages do the C.A.R have over plain retention shooting? Shambler headshots aside :)
John234pwns 1 year ago
@John234pwns My general impression is that C.A.R. really develops retention techniques to the Nth degree. It's almost like the system is designed around retention from the get-go.
ZombieTactics 1 year ago
@ZombieTactics So it's like an end all solution for when you can't shoot arms extended?
John234pwns 1 year ago
SAR recent video got me onto your series. You have a great way of explaining things, like gangsta vs CAR. I only wish you'd put out two-a-week on the food prep series!
wpherigo1 1 year ago
@wpherigo1 I really owe Steve a debt of gratitude, and thanks to you for the kind words.
ZombieTactics 1 year ago
I have plans on taking a C.A.R. class soon.. The system seems to be readily adaptable to simple hand to hand combat like kickboxing which is a plus.
aznlonewuff 1 year ago
I have taken a course in CAR system and it works...it's really comfortable. Understand...the application of this technique is for extream close quarters. Use this technique when someone it trying to take you gun out of your hands. You learn how to cradle the gun...break away from your target and enguage at the same time. This however is not for long range bullseye shooting.
clap5 1 year ago
@clap5 I envy your training experience!
ZombieTactics 1 year ago
Fucking so called "Experts" criticize the CAR to be inferior to the weaver stance,cause "the armor is in front of you and you will get hit on your sides". Yeah you're gonna let them shoot you before you shoot. Weaver is so old,its about time we get something modern,pair it up with brutal martial arts and a new set of CQB warriors will be made. (any suggestions for a brutal but efficient martial arts?)
sawyerbobby 1 year ago
@ZombieTactics Ah, yes that makes sense, thanks for the quick response.
elust1010 1 year ago
I like your videos... Thanks for using common sense. I have a question about the technique at the end of this video. Doesn't the C.A.R. technique go against the reasoning of shooting vertically for purposes of recoil? You mentioned the height of a target verses the width of a target. When would the C.A.R. technique be better than the standard position.
Thanks in advance for your response.
elust1010 1 year ago
@elust1010 I don't pretend to be an expert at C.A.R. but it should be known that there are 4 main shooting positions in C.A.R., 3 of which have some degree of "cant" in the grip angle. All 4 positions are anatomically correct and do not exhibit the problems shown with the "gangsta" sideways grip. As much as I have studied it so far, C.A.R. seems to excel at close range shooting and room-clearance or tight quarters tactics, in cases where the gun is already drawn.
ZombieTactics 1 year ago
I was told another reason never to hold a semi-automatic gangsta style. It involves the potential trajectory of the spent cartridge looping out and burning the forehead of the shooter. Ouch!
Cannibalriot 1 year ago
Nice observation, I found this video most interesting.
1ILgunner 1 year ago
Bad
Xx256xx1 1 year ago
One "gansta" style was use in chinas military and police when they used full auto 9mm/.45 broomhandel mausers. Performing room cleaning they tilted gun on ganstastyle and allowed fullauto recoil to drive gun in sweeping motion, spreading bullets horizontaly across the room.
Deemancer 1 year ago
dont tech "Gangstas" how to shot
RockinDaGlockin 1 year ago
@RockinDaGlockin Are you really that poor at spelling and grammar? Did you pass second grade? tech?! ...really?Please don't tell me you're a cop, I hope you're just a little kid trolling the "zombie" videos.
blooddonor70 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
you just killed 3 cops but posting this vid ass hole! only fucking stupid ass kids shot that way. why would you want show someone that is so stupid to to shot that way how to really kill someone?
RockinDaGlockin 1 year ago
@RockinDaGlockin You might want to delete this and try again. It would be good to form actual sentences. For what's it's worth ... the police officers in my family don't share your opinion. It's a simple matter of demographics ... "gangstas" aren't really watching my channel.
ZombieTactics 1 year ago 7
if you ever have a chance to work with Paul Castle it is well worth the cost of the course. CAR is an amazing tactic, but an even more amazing mindset to have in your "toolbox", a must for any Military or Law Enforcement in CQB.
pjgsxr66 1 year ago 4
@pjgsxr66 It's absolutely in the planning stages. I plan to do a "tour" of training centers ... IDP, Gunsite, Magpul, Frontsight, etc, ... of course vids on all of them!
ZombieTactics 1 year ago
What do you think about the new show The Walking Dead? they have played about 3 episodes so far. Its great If you havent seen it take a look if you are intrested.
Cheers
Sccuba182 1 year ago
@Sccuba182 Yup ... already did a video on it, and I was/am a fan of the graphic novel series as well. I am getting it through iTunes, which gets me access to all sorts of "behind the scenes" stuff too!
ZombieTactics 1 year ago
good exam
usframe 1 year ago
Great info and great subject, ZT, as always. Good demonstration of what is common sense to anyone with any professional training in firearms. If the gangsta style was so accurate, guys like Dave Sevigny would be using it. He wouldn't care about tradition, he just wants to be faster and more accurate. Given that he's faster than pretty much any man alive with a pistol, I'll take that dude's word for it that the way he is doing it is the best way, period.
MrJimbofox 1 year ago
This Video reminded me of a part in a crappy movie (Dead Noon) where the guy, surrounded out in the desert by undead demons, takes a MAC-10 turns it sideways, fires off a magazine full auto and lets the recoil help him turn in a semi circle. The only problem is that maybe ten percent of the bullets fired hit a target, the rest just provided help turning in his semi circle.
Derenk83 1 year ago
I dont think it makes you look cool at all. It makes you look like an ignorant criminal gang member whos begging to be put out of his poverty stricken government handout misery.
EddieCubillo 1 year ago
if anyone can shoot bullseye at a gangsta stance then shoot that way.
kaihoosi1 1 year ago
-- Excellent demo sir!
AppalachianFreedom 1 year ago
@AppalachianFreedom Thanks ... just doing my part for the ball club. Now n then I get a hit, maybe a run, lol.
ZombieTactics 1 year ago
@ZombieTactics about the decent-sight-picture part has been addressed by BWS long time ago. Search for "HoMeBoY Nyte Sytes" :)
coolstuffaddict 1 year ago
well the badguys always miss the good guys in all the movies :p
haha48 1 year ago
Dumbass me not putting Center Axis Relock and CAR together.. Sorry to be redundant from your video.. hah.
mixwell1983 1 year ago
@mixwell1983 meh ... I do that all the time ... make a comment half way through watching a video and then ... doh! ;-)
ZombieTactics 1 year ago
@ZombieTactics - Yah I do it all the time, post on the topic at hand and then further into the video commented on something else. I need to watch the whole video and then comment haha.
mixwell1983 1 year ago
I've seen a spin off of a draw which (I don't recall what step) of shooting before you press out your firearm, I think it has something to do with the CAR system and you do have your firearm canted a and close to your body and it makes me think of the sideways gangsta (idiot) position.. Nice video !!
mixwell1983 1 year ago
I am able to kill a man just by thinking the word "bang." Crap! someone just died...
FlyingPancreas 1 year ago
I just finished a two day CAR class. Initially, I tried to learn CAR from watching videos and reading online materials. To do it right, it really takes a coach to get everything right. I noticed a couple of mistakes that you are making that I also made, before coaching.
In my opinion, CAR is the way to use a pistol. It is extremely fast and combat accurate. I was hitting center mass moving, switching hands at 40 feet using the extended position. And I am a beginner.
mhfisc 1 year ago
It is better than Weaver or ISO, and is the only system I am going to use.
mhfisc 1 year ago
@mhfisc I absolutely do not consider myself an expert at C.A.R. at all. I just found this issue of how the CAR cant maintains radius/ulna stability particularly interesting. I am certain that there are many aspects of the system which cannot be adequately understood without training from a qualified instructor. I hope to take IDP Systems training sometime on 2011.
ZombieTactics 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ZombieTactics The class was great. You will enjoy it.
mhfisc 1 year ago
Gangsta shooting position provides many advantages like....................JK!. Now that say, shooting one handed(should be practiced in that) I do give the gun about a 20-30 degree tilt I find it's pretty nice. I don't care for CAR that say I have never tried it with a real recoiling firearm just a BB pistol. So there is no recoil to deal with. That might make a difference. Does CA let you CC?
Mrcaffinebean 1 year ago
@Mrcaffinebean - In certain counties you might get away with it but if you live in Los Angeles, Orange County, San Diego cty you may as well forget it.. Those are probably the hardest counties to get a CCW.. Now if you're in Ventura county and live semi in the boonies you might get away with a permit but shit I live about 20 mins from downtown LA so a CCW permit is most likely out of the ? You can unload open carry but it seems to pose more BS than it's worth from what ive seen.
mixwell1983 1 year ago
@mixwell1983 That's what I thought. If you get a permit in one county can you carry in another? Also how is unloaded defined? No round in the chamber or no mag in the gun at all?
Mrcaffinebean 1 year ago
@Mrcaffinebean - Damn that's a good questing.. unloaded open carry means no loaded mag in the firearm, you can (from what I hear) have your unloaded firearm open carry on one side and a loaded mag on the other side open carried also but there have been many debates and it appears to be a lot of yellow tape that make it almost unappealing to try.. there are videos on youtube of peeps excercising the right if you wanted to check it out.
mixwell1983 1 year ago
@mixwell1983 Thanks for the really I'll check out some videos of it.
Mrcaffinebean 1 year ago
I do find IF I am shooting single handed and I rotate it 10/20 deg to my centerline it is easier to hold the pistol on target/get a faster follow up shot.
Daytonaman675 1 year ago
Very educational video! A little lesson in biology, mechanics, kinesiology, and some physics throw in for fun. Hard to argue with science! ;-D
adventurek9 1 year ago
This is exactly how the innocent get shot instead of the intended target, thanks for correcting the stupidly.
CHOSEN7X7 1 year ago
I've been trying the CAR for a week now, and honestly I'm not getting it. I spent 36 years practicing fast draw, and 25 years with point and combat shooting. I'll keep trying it, but it just seems to go against everything I've learned. I feel it has merit which is a good add on.
IsbianBlackheart 1 year ago
I still think shivworks / southnarc's shooting system is a better ECQB method
doomcannon445 1 year ago
brace yo self fu lol
rock50003 1 year ago
why are you teaching gangsters how to shot properly, if they want to shot wrongly let them.
TheMindOfRobSpitz 1 year ago
Great vid. Biometrics aside, the gangsta position does not allow for elevation adjustment when sighting. Gravity pulls the bullet down no matter what position the gun is in. Shooting a pistol well past 15 feet is hard enough when you hold it right.
kkelleher66 1 year ago
Gangsta-style of shooting? I like to call it Innocent-Women-and-Children-Style.
EscpdFrmPsykward 1 year ago
idk why people think it's cool shooting gangsta style it's just bad,ugly and unprofessional...
Shufflingboyify 1 year ago
and thats my firearms lesson for the day.... =)
RoofTopSurvivor 1 year ago
ooowww, look at that a balloon. Laughing my ass off. Agree gangster is a ridiculous, impractical way to shoot. Please keep the videos coming.
nelsonboy707 1 year ago
Great explanation/demonstration. I could see that the CAR method was different from "gangsta-style" shooting, but this really helped to explain how and why. Articulate and thorough as always, ZT.
TheLateBoyScout 1 year ago
Radius and the Ulna huh? God sure "broke the mold" when he made us huh guys?
Love your videos. Great iformation presented ina no-nonsense way! :)
MusicMan53100 1 year ago
Yo, this video is WACK!
sovereigntysupporter 1 year ago
Radius and the Ulna huh? God sure "broke the mold" when he made us huh guys?
MusicMan53100 1 year ago
I do believe the "gangsta" grip originated with "gangstas" carrying the gun in the front of their waistband. If you draw from there, it's just lifting your arm straight up and out, you have your "gangsta" grip. On a side note, the ones who originated this group are note exactly known to be the most hard working members of society, so why should they not be lazy on the draw too?:)
kenmccarty 1 year ago
Solid info thanks for sharing.
okieprepper 1 year ago
Excellent explanation and comparative of the two at the end. I've been checking out the CAR system as much as I am able to do online, and have decided to practice classic shooting for a while before trying it, so as not to form bad habits. But in a few months when I am more comfortable, and can extend good groupings out to 25 yards...I'll be giving CAR a go.
Again, thanks for the great breakdown...
UrbanCombatSurvivor 1 year ago
@UrbanCombatSurvivor Yep ... I am presently of the opinion that CAR is not a "primary" technique, but rather an excellent answer to certain specialized scenarios or tactics. Getting a solid Iso or Weaver technique well-practiced is still the best foundation, IMHO.
ZombieTactics 1 year ago
★★★★★
DocTacDad 1 year ago
I was taught that when shooting with one hand it is biomechanically advantageous to cant your wrist inward ~15-20 degrees to make the gun more stable. I find that this is true and works very well. This is NOT gangsta style, whereas, that style is 90 degrees from the vertical. This is only utilized with one handed shooting.
DocTacDad 1 year ago
@DocTacDad Makes sense to me.
ZombieTactics 1 year ago
As to the CAR method, I was watching COPS on the other day (and yes I watch COPS, but not for the same reasons other people probably watch it...I watch it as a mini tactics session) Anyway, some US Marshals were using C.A.R. in a house sweep. Couple things I noted...1) They were in a confined space during the usage of it. 2) they were using it to clear areas above them (attic, and going upstairs).
DocTacDad 1 year ago
Great vid. Keep up the good work.
jnjulie 1 year ago
Ok, I've got to post a few thoughts on this...First the Gangsta style is completely invalid for the reasons you mentioned (and in a fight I hope the guy shooting at me in using the gangsta style). In addition, the gangsta style doesn't take advantage of gravity during recoil and causes more instability for followup shots. There is more of a tendency to string horizontally. I could go on and on....
DocTacDad 1 year ago
but it`s so cool
papaitobonito 1 year ago
I think you assume people actually aim when using the "gangsta" style. Even in movies where they use it they seem to take more of a spray and pray approach. lol
Very nice comparison and excellent explanations as to why each style does or doesn't work. Thanks for the vid!
DefMunky75 1 year ago
People actually suggest "gangsta" methods? A few cop buddies of mine actually like the fact that most people who shoot at them are utilizing that method. :-)
smttysmth02gt 1 year ago
thank u for the tips sir
unclecow 1 year ago
I actually like the fact that this stupid method of holding a gun exists. It allows you to quickly identify how skilled an individual is with firearms. If they hold it "gangsta" style, they likely know dick all about guns, and taking it from them probably won't be a challenge. You'll be able to beat the shit out of them with their own gun before they even realize what just happened.
fidgetingfinch 1 year ago
@fidgetingfinch lol
DocTacDad 1 year ago
@DocTacDad I've actually seen it happen on a few YouTube videos. Pretty hilarious.
fidgetingfinch 1 year ago
good vid
n8mknite 1 year ago
awesome education
thedefinitive 1 year ago
Maybe the reason 85% of all handgun shootings survive is because of all the "gangsta" style shots fired that miss center of mass. LOL
Very educational video. I had never heard of center axis re-lock before this. What I enjoy about your videos are the references to actual "science", since so much of what is out there on YouTube or in most gun magazines is not.
carolinarace 1 year ago
The head, it shines!!
WAFFLES081 1 year ago
Just wait till the Crips and Bloods get a hold of this video! They will thoughtfully consider the material presented here and re-design their whole approach to weapons training ;P
CleverDjembe 1 year ago
sight picture fool. point the heater mofo and empty the clip on sum dumb ass. thats how we do it. boo yah!!!! stupid that people actually think this is a valid position to shoot the gun. o look a balloon.lol. you are one scruffy kid. we shoot point blank dude. it dont matter where the sights are.
PavlovSandor 1 year ago
'thumbs up if this vid has 0 views :P
InfiniteLaundry 1 year ago