it is no doubt anymore that this is the shroud of Jesus with all evidence of suffering - however, the consequence is to forgive and love even enemies and those *who do not know better* as Jesus did on the cross because love and life will succeed in the end - and not to suppress and create hatred as often is done with religion (see the dark ages burning witches etc)
@ssawatdee Get your facts right! In 1988 the Carbon 14 was the most advanced form of testing but now it is not. Now e know that pollen and chemicals added to the shroud during the fire in medieval times mess up the date by aroun 1200 years! Recently, studying the shroud, scientists dated it to the time of Christ. there's a video on my channel explaining this.
@ssawatdee One of the major opponents of the critics of the carbon dating test, one of America's top chemists of Los Alamos Lab, Ray Rogers, later tried to refute a textile expert who said the carbon dating had been done on a corner of the Shroud rewoven in the Later Middle Ages to mend damage. He discovered to his shock that the corner had been rewoven and published a paper on it. It included material like cotton and gum that are not elsewhere on the linen cloth rewoven into the old fibres.
@ssawatdee The Carbon14 tests were brilliantly accurate in measuring the different averages of carbonized old and new material in the corner strip cut off. The dates recorded by the Labs grew more recent as they moved along the strip, showing the increasing proportion of new material present.
The shroud has since been dated by the vanillin test for dating linen. This showed that the rewoven corner dated medieval, but that the image section is dated before 700AD so cannot be medieval in origin.
@ssawatdee Moreover the vanillin date band of the main part with the image runs between 1000BC and 700 AD, which means that a first century date is perfectly possible.
The one thing therefore of which one can be certain is that the Shroud is not a medieval fake.
If u have a cogent theory of how faking could have been done pre 700 you are welcome to try, but remember too that this new dating validates the Shroud as the one from Constantinople, previously from Edessa, so we're back 1st century.
Suppose the historicity of this 'piece of material' is true....i.e. it is the impression left by 'a man called jesus'....so what ? It does nothing to support the claim of 'resurrection', the claim of the authenticity of 'a god', nor any other significant implication believed by religious followers...
@nordhorny Excactlly,About 15people agree to be sacrificed every year and one man has done it every year for the past 12.&he wears a crown of barbed wire,maybe some nut went one further and got wrapped in a cloth.It proves there's plenty of nutjobs about thats all.
Clearly you have not even begun to realize the intellectual and scientific problems involved in the Shroud.
Your explanation of it must indeed rank as one of the nuttiest I've heard. If that's all you can do, then I don't think those Christians need fear much from you at all... Don't you realize that there have been lots of experiments since 1930 on how to produce such a cloth, all of which led to nothing significant?
@nordhorny The significance would be that the claim heard from so many atheists that Jesus the messiah never existed but is a later development of the Horus myth is absolutely wrong. He existed as a moral teacher and theologian who was rejected as the messiah by a Jewish ruling class who feared for their own powers as he had strongly criticized them and was crucified by the Romans as a "King of the Jews" claimnant at their insistance. The story is vindicated. To u to decide if he's King of Kings
@nordhorny Barry Schwortz spoke of the "man Jesus" as he is a Jew and that has always been the standard Jewish line.
The inability of Science to do more than verify that the Shroud could well be first century, and historical science to trace it back to the "image of Christ not made in human hands" that is meant to have been sent from Jerusalem to King Abgar who was supposedly cured of leprosy by it , leaves plenty of mystery in its creation to authorize Christian belief in it.
@Porphyrygrampus Mumbling, bumbling words that amount to nothing significant. Not to be terse with you, but nothing you state is of any noteworthiness.
@nordhorny Yet more proof of the sad fact that atheists, when faced with logical argument & facts they cannot answer, merely flee amidst a smokescreen of claims that there is nothing to answer. And they dare call themselves rational beings.
Probably u were even too lazy to read my arguments just sent to the other sceptics. Sadly many atheists are too indolent to read beyond the arguments stack up as ammo on atheist sites and threads.
@nordhorny The sad fact for you is that lots of people are going to come by and read your contributions and mine and they will come to their own conclusions. And they will see that you were incapable of replying to the whole business of the vanillin dating or the work by historians of the Shroud.
I am happy with that. You will not be making any converts.
@Porphyrygrampus Well on balance, this topic is just an area of lay interest for me, it has no impact on my life whatsoever, and those comments that I do engage with tend to be more in my area of knowledge, not a mere lay interest so I don't really care what anyone interprets from this...
@nordhorny More an area of secular, atheist interest for you rather than "lay", but I see in your last post your admission that u do not happen really to know much about Shroud research. Fine. Just don't try to shoot yr mouth off about it when I'm around...
True that the atheist info sites u people get yr info from are some 30 years out of date, so they only tell u to mention the carbon dating. They have nothing yet to say on the vanillin test, so yr crib sheet is no good to u in this exam. Sad.
Barry Schwortz came to his conclusions gradually by observing the US scientists studying it and listening to their arguments and conclusions. And of course from analyzing with them his own brilliant photographs of the Shroud. As a non-Christian his gradual conviction, not that Jesus was God, but that the Shroud must be that of the "man Jesus" (that's how he puts it here) is the more impressive.
Seems to me that Barrie Schwortz concluded that the image was Jesus and then found evidence in support. This is most unscientific. He should start by assuming nothing about the image and go where the evidence leads. It is ridiculous to claim that they have no understanding of the image. Chemists and materials science should be able to determine what causes the dark and light marks.
@drfoxcourt They have done precisely that. They understand what forms the image very well so far as its chemical components as concerned. What they can't explain is how those components formed into the negative image we have here. If you go back and listen closely to what this video series says, you will realize that you failed to listen closely enough. As for Mr Schwortz I suggest you google for his website. He was the Jewish photographer for the Shroud employed by the STURP scientists and ...
Karma & Rebirth means that we enjoy the Gift of Life, over & over again!
Karma & Rebirth means that life is not pointless, it has meaning, it has purpose
Karma & Rebirth means that we are the keepers of this earth.
Karma & Rebirth means that Human history is not a lie
Karma & Rebirth means we Hindus must do the right thing. Asking God to forgive our debts is WRONG – cheating our creditors. We must repay, the right thing to do.
@zcaz23 Well religion is about giving us a moral compass & i think religion got into trouble when they strayed into other areas. Hinduism doesn't coddle the criminal at the expense of the victims - god is not an escape hatch - ready with a 5star hotel for his followers. Hinduism says the earth is ours - whether it becomes a heaven or hell is up to us, not God. The only thing we can ask God for is guidance & encouragement, the rest is up to us.
people will believe what they want to believe. this bs is still on-going to strongly only in US. amazes me how people are willing to blindly believe in supernatural. easy to speculate about old history and miracles 2000 years ago. why dont miracles occur today with all the cameras?! and not "healing" miracles. raising dead or splitting a sea in half, how about that? no? thought so! theres gonna be a couple dozen excuses to any biblical fallacy anyway.
@eleminatus I think miracles, prophecies & magic are for the weak & cowardly. Instead of tackling life's problems head on it is far easier to believe in a tooth fairy waving his magic wand & fixing our problems. Hinduism does not teach that - whether the earth is going to be a heaven or hell is up to us - it depends on our hard work & sacrifice - no miracles, no magic.
@ramaraksha01 i sincerely agree with you my friend. However i dont think that religion should teach us anything. Morals, distinguishing good from bad, helping others, being good human is coming from people. We cant explain it so we label it. Any religion including hinduism or christianity are based on human life, not the other way around. Its not religion that gives us meaning or purpose or understanding, its WE that give life to religion.
@eleminatus The problem i have with Atheism(& i call myself an Atheist Hindu) is that they say Gandhiji & Hitler have gone to the same place. Their lives have made a diff to millions, but personally Hitler had the better life? While Gandhiji lived in poverty, several times coming close to death due to his fasting, Hitler lived the opulant life.
Why should a rich Atheist get involved with the problems of his society or country? He is but here for a few yrs, then goes poof?
@eleminatus Same goes for christians/muslims, except they have to do good(or beg really, really hard) to reserve their seat in heaven. But for HIndus this is our home - we die, we come right back. So if earth goes to hell due to global warming, we HIndus will be asked to fight our way out. No judgement day - no tooth fairy god to come save the day. Earth will be a heaven due to our efforts, hard work & sacrifice.
Whenever I see that thing, I always think about the rumor that they hired Leonardo Da Vinci himself to make the Shroud of Turin. He apparently used his own image to burn into the cloth, and i can imagine him laughing to this day how many people weeping over this blanket....
@JASONNHENCHMENN Oh his name is your topic, I thought you were saying the person didn't exist. Yes he was never addressed as such but it's just a different interpritation of his name
@JASONNHENCHMENN woah woah woah... now you're being stupid. No one denies Jesus as being a real person, whether atheist or theist. The only possible thing to deny is his soverinity and even that is stupid.
@JASONNHENCHMENN how am I being ignorant? God goes by more than one name. Praising El Shaddai will not be any different Than praising Jehova, Elohim, YHWH, Father or the like. Call on His name, Any of them, Same Person doing the same response. Jesus/Yeshua/Emmanuel are also the the same Person, no false gods-nothing. The Spanish PRONOUNCE it(not a different person altogether) hay-zues because of their dialect. Get that through your skull.
@JASONNHENCHMENN what is wrong with you? the prounciation is hay-zues but the the spelling is Jesus with accents and tildes. The spanish pronounce J as an H
@JASONNHENCHMENN Still His name... so stop saying all this false gods stuff, same Person... So John in Spanish isn't Juan? Woah I've been lied to all these years...
@JASONNHENCHMENN God has many names that people can call Him by... God isn't even a name, it's a title. Yahweh is His name but He goes by others, akin to nicknames with their own meaning
@6MemoryOfForever9 Matthew 27:65 Pilate said unto them, Ye have a watch: go your way, make it as sure as ye can. 66 So they went, and made the sepulchre sure, sealing the stone, and setting a watch. ( What this? )
@6MemoryOfForever9 Oh no not at all... :) check out biblos.gom < com... you type a portion of scripture in biblos search engine and bam! all the scripture ( related ) pop out! like! bam! xD ... walk and talk with Him... psalms, hymns, ( like the organ hymns ) none of this gospel rock... Jesus was a rock but He didn't rock n roll one pastor told me this :) grow in the riches of His grace :) God is love... so as we learn of Him he changes us and we will ascend w Him to enjoy life eternal ( joy )
@gregrutz But he was resurrected. The romans placed guards and a giant stone in front of his tomb and yet on that morning the stone was rolled away, the guards nowhere in sight and the tomb empty. 11 untrained men could not overthrow soldiers of rome and move the stone all to say that Christ was risen and then allowed themselves to be killed to prove it. That's bad psychology.
@JASONNHENCHMENN Jesus came with a new covenant, He concluded the 10 commandements into 2 commandements, love God with all your heart and power and love your neighbor as yourself.. What's the use if you preserve the Sabbath and have no love in your heart, what's the use of you care more about the days than you care about the love and mercy of God. Remember the Jews when they criticized Him that He was healing a man on a Sabbath, you know the rest of the story...
@JASONNHENCHMENN The blind believed in Him simply because of his faith, He was cured & asked, who is He, where is He so I kneel before Him and worship.
He didn't even know His real name, He called Him the Son of David.
@JASONNHENCHMENN It's still the same God- Man that we all Christians venerate & worship. It's not the names that Christians worship, it's who behind the names. If I want to ask and research why this and why that, I'll lose the essence which is faith, faith in Him who gave His life for us to be saved, and faith doesn't ask too much, faith is not questioning all the time.
@JASONNHENCHMENN Neither before He was born. His name means God with us, or the Emmanuel. Jesus or Yashu'a is His earthly name given to Him by the angel Gabriel, Jesus is Yahweh, Jesus is Elohim, Jesus is God and Lord, Jesus is the Son of God and the Son of Man, Jesus is the Lamb.. See how many names He has! .. In arabic is Yassou'a, He still the same Christ. By the way, did the name Christ instead of Massih or Messiah came from paganism also?
@JASONNHENCHMENN Jesus Christ is behind the Bible, and by His Spirit upon the gospels the Bible was written, don't you know that? If the Bible is wrong, then Jesus Christ is a forgery. It's all about faith my friend, whether you believe or not, it's up to you, and you alone.
@JASONNHENCHMENN I could say that Jesus Christ married Mary Magdalen and had kids from her as well, isn't that what most of the channels on TV are talking about lately? .. Of course, the Bible need to be translated to many languages for the people to understand it and read it, if it was kept in hebrew language, you wouldn't find Christians all over the world now.
@JASONNHENCHMENN The rejection of God's laws is in nationalism that is spreading like a plague, not in the Church. Paganism is when you worship an idol, Christians doesn't worship idols, they worship Jesus Christ. If you go to Churches in Christmas time, you don't find santa claus in it, but a creche ot the nativity stable.
@JASONNHENCHMENN Are you trying to say that the cross was a human invention to fool people?
The hole in the ground where the cross was planted is still a proof till this day in Jerusalem. If you go to Churches during the holy Friday or the Easter time which is the remembrance of the resurrection, you don't see neither bunnies, but you see an empty cross with a linen on it, a sign of Jesus's resurrection.
@JASONNHENCHMENN They didn't mention all the miracles that Jesus did either, does that mean that Jesus didn't do thousands of miracles, remember the gospel of John?
They didn't mock Him by saying: If You're the Messiah "get down" from the cross so we believe?, they said get down from the cross not from the tree. or the Bible isn't accurate enough. There was no trees on Golgotha,did they crucify the thieves on a tree as well? The bible stated that He fell under the cross, not a tree, etc, etc...
@adeelies St. Veronica's piece of lenen is not the Shroud that covered Jesus, it's a smaller piece that only show the agony and suffering on the face of Jesus while He was carrying the cross on His way to be crucified.
@adeelies St. Veronica's piece of lenen is not the Shroud that covered Jesus, it's a smaller piece that only show the agony and suffering on the face of Jesus while He was carrying the cross on His way to be crucified.
Murat Altun, 26, who was the driver and bodyguard for Bishop Luigi Padovese, was charged with murder on Friday at a court in the southern city of Iskenderun.
"I had a revelation and I killed him," Altun told investigators, the NTV television channel and Milliyet newspaper reported.
God works in mysterious ways but his justice is swift.
"Heralding a new era in biology, scientists for the first time have created a synthetic cell, completely controlled by man-made genetic instructions, which can survive and reproduce itself, researchers at the private J. Craig Venter Institute announced Thursday. "
That guy that claims the shroud is mentioned in John 20 :6 needs to read it again. It says STRIPS of cloth and a single cloth wrapped around his head. There are more than one piece. These are separate pieces and not one. This is proof the shoud is fake from the bibles own description.
@boldecvr The Jewish tradition,in this period, was to bandage bodies,much like Egyptian 'mummys' but using a wider bandage. As far as I am aware the most recent dating of this textile places it in the late 12th or early 13th C. Which proves, only, that it was not available at the reported time of Christ's death
@boldecvr Don't forget that Jesus's face and to be more specific His Jaws were wrapped in another small piece of linen that surround his head as well to keep the mouth closed, because when Jesus died His mouth was kept open and His eyes half opened. This piece was wrapped to force the jaws to close.
@comali2212 I think you are missing the point. The shroud of turin is one piece and the bible describes more than one piece. Clearly this is bogus based on the accounts from the bible.
@boldecvr Exactly, the Bible describe more than one piece, the other piece that was found is the piece that wrapped His head vertically to keep His open Jaw closed. It was placed beneath the Shroud. When Jesus died on the cross, He leaned His head to the right side and His jaw was kept open and that was caused from the last scream He shouted. Notice His jaw on the Shroud, it is leaned to one side.
@boldecvr But the shroud was christianity's ONLY!!! piece of *proof* now they have zero. As i always say i might believe if i see proof in jesus and there is none, show me proof
Three separate labs did a carbon test that showed the shroud to be made around 1200 ad. Secondly the shroud has been duplicated using methods known at the time . Presently questions here about how it was made is dishonest since it has already been shown.
it is the image of jaques de molay, the last grand master of the templars. He was tortured by the inquisition and crucified on a door frame. The shroud was used to cover him and the body in its distressed state produes acids which marked the fabric. The shroud was given to the church by the family of jeffery de charney who was demolays co defendant and whos family were allowed to help demolay recover after being tortured. They noticed the image some years later. The church obviously knows
@alfaromeoash And Jacques de molay was whipped by a Roman flagrum. and Jacques de molay was pierced by a Roman lance too, and crowned with thorns too, and was beatten like no man ever beatten in history, what a coincidence hein?
Now, how do you know that Jacques de molay looks like the man on the shroud, do you have a picture or a painting of him? if so, show it on YouTube to back up your story, does that make sense!
@comali2212 by his captors accounts, De Molay received the same puishment as Christ as a pointed insult,as he was accused of "unimaginable heresy", so no coincedence either.There is no more proof that this image is he, than there is for it being Christ.Since no contemperous image exists of either, we will never know.
@comali2212 If memory serves the only descriptions are those in the NT, which were written or re-written, 325 years after Christ's death. I have never come across a contempoerous description of the man in Christian or Roman accounts,attributed to the period covering his lifetime.Perhaps,one may exist in the "supressed" Gospels,but the fragments I have read contain no such information.
@theMacvarish Neither you can find any other description in the OT or the NT about characters or prophets. Do we have a description on how Moses looked like? Do we have a description on how Abraham looked like, or John the Baptist, or Peter, John and the rest of the disciples?...
@theMacvarish The Bible is just fragments, and more about the true existence, teachings and life of Christ than a description on how He looked like. Isn't John who said that if they wrote everything that Jesus did, the whole world won't be enough to contain it!
@theMacvarish Not to mention that the Bible was written under extreme persecution.
Not to mention that many fragments and pieces were lost through the ages, and were put together again, that's why we see a lot of gaps in the Bible.
Not to mention that the gospels who wrote it, still had in their hearts and their heads a bit of their Judaism beliefs, that effected some of their writings
@theMacvarish I'm trying to explain to you, actually I'm trying to answer your question as well on why Christ doesn't have a physical description in the Bible, that was your question.
Don't you think that God want us to know how He look like!
He came in flesh, and gave us His flesh and blood for our salvation, and still doesn't want us to know how He look like!!
@theMacvarish He wanted us to know and see how He look like, and what our sins did to Him, He wanted us to feel His passion by looking at His wounds, that's why He prepared the Shroud for the generations to come. God has a face, and a description, His not invisible anymore. Look how the scientists are puzzled by the Shroud and it's nature and how it was formed, it's another proof of the power of God against the scientists, yet His precious gift to the believers and not the doubtful ones.
@comali2212 I can't imagine that God is bothered by scientists, since God,(in the Christian sense),created and loves them equally. The Shroud is a curious artefact, one which the Catholic Church has,steadfastly, refused to identify as being the image of Christ. The rest is opinion and conjecture.
@theMacvarish God's not bothered by scientists nor science, He created them both. God is bothered by the doubtful scientists who are trying by any means to prove that the Shroud is not authentic.
If the Catholic Church refused to identify the Shroud as being the image of Christ, then why they expose it to the believers from all over the world as a sacred relic?
Maybe they think " De Molay " is holy and sacred! Lol
@comali2212 Did God tell you he "was bothered by doubtful scientists" ? Surely he created them also ? As far as I am aware the only people who have ever examined the Shroud were all chosen by the Catholic Church, I doubt they were asked to prove it "is not authentic".Intresting that you find mockery and scorn amusing,I believe the Romans did to.
So the Catholic Church believe the Shroud is not authentic " that's what you wrote", then why the Catholic Church is exposing the Shroud as a sacred relic?
You have no answer?
Mockery and scorn? who are using mockery being telling ridiculous and fake stories about the most venerated and sacred relic in history of mankind, isn't you? De Molay huh! I've never heard that story but from you.
@comali2212 Post any site where the Vatican claims it is real.I think you may have heard the De Molay story before,14 days ago you desparaged the person who first raised it,here.Which if I remember my catechism, makes you a liar and a sinner. And there is more "in history of mankind", than Christian idolatry
@theMacvarish I'm a sinner but not a liar, and by the way who are you to judge me, mister?
The actions worth millions of claiming words don't you know that, smarty!
The Shroud is venerated in the Catholic Church, " Venerated ", google this word and know what exactly means, instead of blabbing the same words over and over again.
@comali2212 Christian idolatry, hmmm so you believe that idolatry exist. If you believe in idolatry then you must believe in something. State what you believe in, instead of just hiding behind useless claimings and accusations.
@comali2212 I know idolatry exists I was educated in Catholic seminary,there they taught me the meaning of "venerated".And I don't "have to believe in something" or anything ;belief is a choice.Was it Mattew who spoke on judgment ? But you're the expert you can lecture me on that, also.
@theMacvarish Sure is a choice, who says the contrary!
I'm not an expert, let that for preachers and Bible experts, I'm not here to lecture anybody, I'm here to clear the dirt that has been built over the reality and the true source of the Shroud of Turin, and better call it the Shroud of Jesus Christ.
@comali2212 Shroud of Male: apparently crucified,origin unknown. As I said at the beginning, the rest is conjecture or a matter of belief. You want to worship textile go ahead, enjoy.
@theMacvarish It's all a matter of belief, belief and faith, finally you got it..
Jesus Christ is not a myth, He's mystical.
I don't worship a textile, I'm worshipping what the textile represent, you just don't get it!
It's not about textiles, marbels, statues, woods, gold or bronze, it's not about paintings and pictures or icons, it's about what all these objects represent.
@theMacvarish Whoever this Shroud represent, it's definitely not just another Shroud. If it was a Shroud of any other Male, the world wouldn't be interested that much in it... Meditate on that.
The Vatican never authenticated anything...new evidence in scientific journal shows that medieval repair was expertly woven into fringe of shroud where carbon sample was cut thus skewing the dating...there's plenty of evidence showing its authenticity and prior history to 1300s
Hey, I think you qualify for a terrorist. You hate America and want to fight me because of my religion. Just strap a bomb to your chest and you'll make the team buddy.
Oh..so now Im the terrorist because your American and such a religious nut?
Um,the rest of the world, Americans like you can never be wrong right? Your American and because your american you can never be wrong. Your interests are religion & science, your American so therefore you have to be correct, who dare oppose an American that what he says is incorrect.
Tell a Muslim that Allah is also the name of other religious Gods. Islam kills other religions for simply believing in another religion.
The funniest thing about the whole Shroud of Turin debate is this: How does the Shroud prove a resurrection? The Shroud no more proves a resurrection then the number of other things stolen from graves over the years by grave robbers prove a resurrection of a person buried in those graves. The resurrection is the great stumbling block of the christian faith because it has no validity. So the Shroud was simply (MADE) by one of the many great artist during the middle ages to give it some validity.
It shows proof of the ressurection because studies have shown that the image was braught on by a radiation of some sort natural phenomena. (some may consider a supernatural phenomena). And the Shroud is not a painting. A painting would look bland during the VP8 tests. Making it an obvious fake. That wasn't the case for the Shroud. If I where to take anyone to court over this, I'd win with flying colors.
Um,..ok. since it has been proven to be a fake. Carbon dating has shown it is a fake. Only religious people dont want to accept science as fact. What is your problem MrZetter of understanding that religion is a man made structure to manipulate people for profit. Go to the Vatican,.you'll soon learn that even they wish not to discuss these findings. Dont fool yourself like you have or try with others.
Do you know how stupid that sounds? The shroud is real? Proven a fake.. yet you believe other?
To say radiocarbondating, one of the most sensitive scientific prosseses disproves the Shroud is rediculous. The shoud has been burned, flooded on, and preserved for many centuries. Any of these could throw off the carbondating prosses. It was re-woven in the 16th century with cotton to hold the linen that (by the way) could only be found in 1st century A.D. "proof" is an arrogant word if used in science, only a word tossed around by skeptics.
You religious nut,.when a 1,000 years ago we heard thunder,.what did people believe? we never understood the cause as we never knew,.so it was the Gods being angry..........1,000 years later we understand the cause,.its simple and self explanitory,........but people like you will never understand the true logic and reasons as your head is so far up your ass with your religious beliefs of a figment of imagination. btw.there is NO factual evidence of Jesus before he was 33. work it out Einstien
"History is a pack of lies about events that never happened told by people who weren't there." - George Santayana, American philosopher (1863-1952).
Our God simply says He did it, never said how. You're arguing against religion, not the subject at hand. My religious beliefs have evolved. Atheists actually disreguard much philosophy, making atheism poor one. No good philosopher is an atheist. Agnostic, yes, but not atheist.
Read his words that you chose as an example MrZetter. How do we know of events is we werent there? but it happened, so therefore it must be true. 2,000 years later you still believe in the parting of the sea? the invasion of locusts (which could well be a natural infestation like a plague of rats created from mans own doing, as we never knew of microscopic bacteria)
Its logic alone that tells the truth.
Now your religious head is boring me, as there is nothing there.
So logic alone tells the truth, huh? What about situations that go outside of logic? That's actually the idea purposed by the story of the Hair and the Tortise. It's obsurd that a tortise would beat a hair, but in a situation where this is the outcome, and logic fails, what then?
(yes, this is a real philosophical question in the history of philosophy.)
I think God certainly steps outside the bounderies of being solved with logic. I'll send you a video to show you what I mean.
Thank you for displaying the entirety of the atheist argument. Calling the oponent stupid. I live in Gulf Breeze Florida. Tourist central. And thanks for assuming I'm a Y.E.C. Christian does not = Young Earth Creationist. Catholics understand genisis in a way that makes evolution possible. Catholics aren't fundamentalsts.
Your American. Religious and fucking annoying with your brain dead religions just like that 'comali2212'
You see what you want to see with images appearing, the same as the Muslims do with Allahs name in arabic in muffins, bread, fruit, anything. Only religious cunts believe its God doing things you dont understand. You Roman Catholic? Created by the Romans.
Mmmm.... Yell it in my ear. Oh yes. And by the way, Allah is the same God as my God. Lol:
"Only religious cunts believe its God doing things you dont undertand." Such as a burst of radiation that created a perfect image of the human body? Hm, gee, how stupid of me to think that. Atheists are sooo repulsive. You had no reason to rip on comali2212. He's being charitable. And you know I'm smarter than you. My favorite subjects; Science, phiosophy, and religion. Good day sir.
Shut the fuck up you American religious freak. Create your own life and think for yourself. Instantly your the top notch in religion because you believe in a religion that believes the same as every other religion 'My religion is the truth'.
Seems you dare not own up to your religion....you play in riddles.
Allah is the same God as your God?
So every religion has the same God, but just kill other religious names for the sake of killing?
Yes, I am smarter than you. Jews, Christians, and Muslums all worship the Hebrew God. (Muslums are a little "out there" though.) According to their beliefs, they aren't supposed to harm the innocent. Your thinking of those jerks in the Talaban. They threaten even Muslums. They see us as "infadels" yet their teachings are way contrary to the Jewish Torah and prophets and the Christian Bible. Basically, beware of false prophets.
Oh, when you said: "You see what you want to see with images appearing" Well that's nice. But a thousand people cant all hallucinate nd see the same thing. Nor can a photograph hallucinate. Nor can your hallucination's actions be visible to those around you.
What is this a competition between you religious freaks about who is the most devoted worshipper? Fuck off with your religious thoughts and comments that OTHER people have already said which you copy and paste and make out your highly intelligent. Its nothing to do with being repulsed by 'the light' its being repulsed by people like you.
There were at least 26 supposed burial shrouds scattered throughout the abbeys of Europe, of which the Shroud of Turin is just one. The Shroud of Turin is one of the many relics manufactured during the Middle Ages. The Shroud was declared a fake by a bishop during the time who discovered the artist. The Shroud of Turin is also not consistent with the so-called Gospel accounts of Jesus' burial, which clearly refer to multiple cloths and a separate napkin over his face.
There is no artist because there is no artwork. If the shroud where a painting, it would have failed the VP8 test epically. And being bound in extra strips of linen wouldn't interfear with the image on the shroud. And if you look at the head of the image on the shroud, it has more depth than the rest of the image, and the hair hangs straight down, as though it where constricted. Possibly because of the hankerchief wrapped around His head. The Gospel says it was wrapped around His head.
it is no doubt anymore that this is the shroud of Jesus with all evidence of suffering - however, the consequence is to forgive and love even enemies and those *who do not know better* as Jesus did on the cross because love and life will succeed in the end - and not to suppress and create hatred as often is done with religion (see the dark ages burning witches etc)
khi590 2 months ago
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polly10022 4 months ago
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polly10022 4 months ago
@polly10022 How do you know he wasn't put on a cross? Was you there?
theHatchett1 2 months ago
@theHatchett1 No, but there is scientific evidence.
polly10022 2 months ago
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@polly10022 What "evidence" can you supply?
theHatchett1 2 months ago
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polly10022 4 months ago
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polly10022 4 months ago
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polly10022 4 months ago
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polly10022 4 months ago
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polly10022 4 months ago
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polly10022 4 months ago
I have good news and bad news,,,the good news is GOD is coming the bad news is GOD is coming
candiceevans1 6 months ago
@candiceevans1 jesus wasnt put on a cross
polly10022 4 months ago
@polly10022 yes he was get over it.
greenhornet123 1 month ago
the shroud was tested by carbon dating and found to have been created in 1260 to 1390 AD, ITS A FAKE
ssawatdee 10 months ago
@ssawatdee Get your facts right! In 1988 the Carbon 14 was the most advanced form of testing but now it is not. Now e know that pollen and chemicals added to the shroud during the fire in medieval times mess up the date by aroun 1200 years! Recently, studying the shroud, scientists dated it to the time of Christ. there's a video on my channel explaining this.
MyOpinionOnline 9 months ago
@ssawatdee One of the major opponents of the critics of the carbon dating test, one of America's top chemists of Los Alamos Lab, Ray Rogers, later tried to refute a textile expert who said the carbon dating had been done on a corner of the Shroud rewoven in the Later Middle Ages to mend damage. He discovered to his shock that the corner had been rewoven and published a paper on it. It included material like cotton and gum that are not elsewhere on the linen cloth rewoven into the old fibres.
Porphyrygrampus 9 months ago
@ssawatdee The Carbon14 tests were brilliantly accurate in measuring the different averages of carbonized old and new material in the corner strip cut off. The dates recorded by the Labs grew more recent as they moved along the strip, showing the increasing proportion of new material present.
The shroud has since been dated by the vanillin test for dating linen. This showed that the rewoven corner dated medieval, but that the image section is dated before 700AD so cannot be medieval in origin.
Porphyrygrampus 9 months ago
@ssawatdee Moreover the vanillin date band of the main part with the image runs between 1000BC and 700 AD, which means that a first century date is perfectly possible.
The one thing therefore of which one can be certain is that the Shroud is not a medieval fake.
If u have a cogent theory of how faking could have been done pre 700 you are welcome to try, but remember too that this new dating validates the Shroud as the one from Constantinople, previously from Edessa, so we're back 1st century.
Porphyrygrampus 9 months ago
Suppose the historicity of this 'piece of material' is true....i.e. it is the impression left by 'a man called jesus'....so what ? It does nothing to support the claim of 'resurrection', the claim of the authenticity of 'a god', nor any other significant implication believed by religious followers...
nordhorny 10 months ago
@nordhorny Excactlly,About 15people agree to be sacrificed every year and one man has done it every year for the past 12.&he wears a crown of barbed wire,maybe some nut went one further and got wrapped in a cloth.It proves there's plenty of nutjobs about thats all.
megaj1964 9 months ago
@megaj1964 Indeed.
nordhorny 9 months ago
@megaj1964
Clearly you have not even begun to realize the intellectual and scientific problems involved in the Shroud.
Your explanation of it must indeed rank as one of the nuttiest I've heard. If that's all you can do, then I don't think those Christians need fear much from you at all... Don't you realize that there have been lots of experiments since 1930 on how to produce such a cloth, all of which led to nothing significant?
Porphyrygrampus 9 months ago
@nordhorny The significance would be that the claim heard from so many atheists that Jesus the messiah never existed but is a later development of the Horus myth is absolutely wrong. He existed as a moral teacher and theologian who was rejected as the messiah by a Jewish ruling class who feared for their own powers as he had strongly criticized them and was crucified by the Romans as a "King of the Jews" claimnant at their insistance. The story is vindicated. To u to decide if he's King of Kings
Porphyrygrampus 9 months ago
@nordhorny Barry Schwortz spoke of the "man Jesus" as he is a Jew and that has always been the standard Jewish line.
The inability of Science to do more than verify that the Shroud could well be first century, and historical science to trace it back to the "image of Christ not made in human hands" that is meant to have been sent from Jerusalem to King Abgar who was supposedly cured of leprosy by it , leaves plenty of mystery in its creation to authorize Christian belief in it.
Porphyrygrampus 9 months ago
@Porphyrygrampus Mumbling, bumbling words that amount to nothing significant. Not to be terse with you, but nothing you state is of any noteworthiness.
nordhorny 9 months ago
@nordhorny Yet more proof of the sad fact that atheists, when faced with logical argument & facts they cannot answer, merely flee amidst a smokescreen of claims that there is nothing to answer. And they dare call themselves rational beings.
Probably u were even too lazy to read my arguments just sent to the other sceptics. Sadly many atheists are too indolent to read beyond the arguments stack up as ammo on atheist sites and threads.
Porphyrygrampus 9 months ago
@Porphyrygrampus If you had a credible argument, I would engage you...and I certainly do not stoop to that kind of baiting.
nordhorny 9 months ago
@nordhorny The sad fact for you is that lots of people are going to come by and read your contributions and mine and they will come to their own conclusions. And they will see that you were incapable of replying to the whole business of the vanillin dating or the work by historians of the Shroud.
I am happy with that. You will not be making any converts.
Porphyrygrampus 9 months ago
@Porphyrygrampus Well on balance, this topic is just an area of lay interest for me, it has no impact on my life whatsoever, and those comments that I do engage with tend to be more in my area of knowledge, not a mere lay interest so I don't really care what anyone interprets from this...
nordhorny 9 months ago
@nordhorny More an area of secular, atheist interest for you rather than "lay", but I see in your last post your admission that u do not happen really to know much about Shroud research. Fine. Just don't try to shoot yr mouth off about it when I'm around...
True that the atheist info sites u people get yr info from are some 30 years out of date, so they only tell u to mention the carbon dating. They have nothing yet to say on the vanillin test, so yr crib sheet is no good to u in this exam. Sad.
Porphyrygrampus 9 months ago
@Porphyrygrampus Read my previous messages.
nordhorny 9 months ago
@nordhorny I have. I don't see anything more than a refusal to engage with me on this matter. I am not impressed.
Just a mixture of insolence and bluff that is typical of the new atheists.
Porphyrygrampus 9 months ago
@Porphyrygrampus Well you have taken onboard my intention.
nordhorny 9 months ago
Barry Schwortz came to his conclusions gradually by observing the US scientists studying it and listening to their arguments and conclusions. And of course from analyzing with them his own brilliant photographs of the Shroud. As a non-Christian his gradual conviction, not that Jesus was God, but that the Shroud must be that of the "man Jesus" (that's how he puts it here) is the more impressive.
Porphyrygrampus 1 year ago
Seems to me that Barrie Schwortz concluded that the image was Jesus and then found evidence in support. This is most unscientific. He should start by assuming nothing about the image and go where the evidence leads. It is ridiculous to claim that they have no understanding of the image. Chemists and materials science should be able to determine what causes the dark and light marks.
drfoxcourt 1 year ago
@drfoxcourt They have done precisely that. They understand what forms the image very well so far as its chemical components as concerned. What they can't explain is how those components formed into the negative image we have here. If you go back and listen closely to what this video series says, you will realize that you failed to listen closely enough. As for Mr Schwortz I suggest you google for his website. He was the Jewish photographer for the Shroud employed by the STURP scientists and ...
Porphyrygrampus 1 year ago
Karma & Rebirth means that we enjoy the Gift of Life, over & over again!
Karma & Rebirth means that life is not pointless, it has meaning, it has purpose
Karma & Rebirth means that we are the keepers of this earth.
Karma & Rebirth means that Human history is not a lie
Karma & Rebirth means we Hindus must do the right thing. Asking God to forgive our debts is WRONG – cheating our creditors. We must repay, the right thing to do.
Karma & Rebirth means that I am not a QUITTER!
ramaraksha01 1 year ago
@ramaraksha01 lol, random religion with no basis or reason for belief.
zcaz23 1 year ago
@zcaz23 Well religion is about giving us a moral compass & i think religion got into trouble when they strayed into other areas. Hinduism doesn't coddle the criminal at the expense of the victims - god is not an escape hatch - ready with a 5star hotel for his followers. Hinduism says the earth is ours - whether it becomes a heaven or hell is up to us, not God. The only thing we can ask God for is guidance & encouragement, the rest is up to us.
ramaraksha01 1 year ago
@ramaraksha01 It should just be called a moral compass then, whereas Christianity is a true RELIGION.
zcaz23 1 year ago
people will believe what they want to believe. this bs is still on-going to strongly only in US. amazes me how people are willing to blindly believe in supernatural. easy to speculate about old history and miracles 2000 years ago. why dont miracles occur today with all the cameras?! and not "healing" miracles. raising dead or splitting a sea in half, how about that? no? thought so! theres gonna be a couple dozen excuses to any biblical fallacy anyway.
eleminatus 1 year ago
@eleminatus I think miracles, prophecies & magic are for the weak & cowardly. Instead of tackling life's problems head on it is far easier to believe in a tooth fairy waving his magic wand & fixing our problems. Hinduism does not teach that - whether the earth is going to be a heaven or hell is up to us - it depends on our hard work & sacrifice - no miracles, no magic.
ramaraksha01 1 year ago
@ramaraksha01 i sincerely agree with you my friend. However i dont think that religion should teach us anything. Morals, distinguishing good from bad, helping others, being good human is coming from people. We cant explain it so we label it. Any religion including hinduism or christianity are based on human life, not the other way around. Its not religion that gives us meaning or purpose or understanding, its WE that give life to religion.
eleminatus 1 year ago
@eleminatus The problem i have with Atheism(& i call myself an Atheist Hindu) is that they say Gandhiji & Hitler have gone to the same place. Their lives have made a diff to millions, but personally Hitler had the better life? While Gandhiji lived in poverty, several times coming close to death due to his fasting, Hitler lived the opulant life.
Why should a rich Atheist get involved with the problems of his society or country? He is but here for a few yrs, then goes poof?
ramaraksha01 1 year ago
@eleminatus Same goes for christians/muslims, except they have to do good(or beg really, really hard) to reserve their seat in heaven. But for HIndus this is our home - we die, we come right back. So if earth goes to hell due to global warming, we HIndus will be asked to fight our way out. No judgement day - no tooth fairy god to come save the day. Earth will be a heaven due to our efforts, hard work & sacrifice.
ramaraksha01 1 year ago
look at the phoney guy at the end
people who writes back then were not left handed, the ink would of smudge on their palm
the reason you write with your right hand is by the time the line is done the ink is dried
kimura2Loc 1 year ago
Whenever I see that thing, I always think about the rumor that they hired Leonardo Da Vinci himself to make the Shroud of Turin. He apparently used his own image to burn into the cloth, and i can imagine him laughing to this day how many people weeping over this blanket....
grendelee 1 year ago
v=IE1Fsp1ZmhM
Macedon5 1 year ago
@JASONNHENCHMENN dude i don't know... I'm not spanish, I know the language but not it's history, look for a linguist
GREATGAIWAIN 1 year ago
@JASONNHENCHMENN Oh his name is your topic, I thought you were saying the person didn't exist. Yes he was never addressed as such but it's just a different interpritation of his name
GREATGAIWAIN 1 year ago
@JASONNHENCHMENN because of the dialect that south americans have
GREATGAIWAIN 1 year ago
@JASONNHENCHMENN woah woah woah... now you're being stupid. No one denies Jesus as being a real person, whether atheist or theist. The only possible thing to deny is his soverinity and even that is stupid.
GREATGAIWAIN 1 year ago
@JASONNHENCHMENN how am I being ignorant? God goes by more than one name. Praising El Shaddai will not be any different Than praising Jehova, Elohim, YHWH, Father or the like. Call on His name, Any of them, Same Person doing the same response. Jesus/Yeshua/Emmanuel are also the the same Person, no false gods-nothing. The Spanish PRONOUNCE it(not a different person altogether) hay-zues because of their dialect. Get that through your skull.
GREATGAIWAIN 1 year ago
@JASONNHENCHMENN what is wrong with you? the prounciation is hay-zues but the the spelling is Jesus with accents and tildes. The spanish pronounce J as an H
GREATGAIWAIN 1 year ago
@JASONNHENCHMENN Still His name... so stop saying all this false gods stuff, same Person... So John in Spanish isn't Juan? Woah I've been lied to all these years...
GREATGAIWAIN 1 year ago
@JASONNHENCHMENN it is the same letters, just different pronounciation. I left off to make myself study and gain knowledge.
GREATGAIWAIN 1 year ago
@JASONNHENCHMENN God has many names that people can call Him by... God isn't even a name, it's a title. Yahweh is His name but He goes by others, akin to nicknames with their own meaning
GREATGAIWAIN 1 year ago
didn't a scientist succeed in doing a similar copy recently??
6MemoryOfForever9 1 year ago
@6MemoryOfForever9 such ignorance is unforgivable... She'd ask the soldiers to move it. What threat could a woman pose in those days?
GREATGAIWAIN 1 year ago
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6MemoryOfForever9 1 year ago
@6MemoryOfForever9 are you serious...
GREATGAIWAIN 1 year ago
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6MemoryOfForever9 1 year ago
@6MemoryOfForever9 Matthew 27: 59 - 28: 3
GREATGAIWAIN 1 year ago
@GREATGAIWAIN THANK YOU! I HAVE BEEN taught that there were guards, but...ouf! this shows I need to start reading the Bible again! thank you again!
6MemoryOfForever9 1 year ago
@6MemoryOfForever9 hmm... glad to be of service.
GREATGAIWAIN 1 year ago
@6MemoryOfForever9 Matthew 27:65 Pilate said unto them, Ye have a watch: go your way, make it as sure as ye can. 66 So they went, and made the sepulchre sure, sealing the stone, and setting a watch. ( What this? )
Spiderwolfcakes 1 year ago
@Spiderwolfcakes yeah, I went and found it :D sorry about my stupid question ^_^
6MemoryOfForever9 1 year ago
@6MemoryOfForever9 Oh no not at all... :) check out biblos.gom < com... you type a portion of scripture in biblos search engine and bam! all the scripture ( related ) pop out! like! bam! xD ... walk and talk with Him... psalms, hymns, ( like the organ hymns ) none of this gospel rock... Jesus was a rock but He didn't rock n roll one pastor told me this :) grow in the riches of His grace :) God is love... so as we learn of Him he changes us and we will ascend w Him to enjoy life eternal ( joy )
Spiderwolfcakes 1 year ago
Cause I believe ... do you my brother?
Youtubitiano 1 year ago
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God, Our Lord and King Jesus Christ let bless You!!!
It`s the TRUE and everyone should compare that 3d picture(Manoppello) to the 2d. shroud of Turin to be sure not some fictional models!!!
Poor face of God beaten to death for our sins!
How people can say they don`t love Him-they dont have heart?
JezusSlave 1 year ago
@JASONNHENCHMENN Then what was his name? Yashua is aramaic,jesus is english, "hay-zeus" is SPANISH(pronounciation)!!!
GREATGAIWAIN 1 year ago
@JASONNHENCHMENN hay-zeus? really? that's the spanish way of pronouncing Jesus' name. Saying something has errors IS saying it's false.
GREATGAIWAIN 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
God, Our Lord and King Jesus Christ let bless You!!!
It`s the TRUE and everyone should compare that 3d picture(Manoppello) to the 2d. shroud of Turin to be sure not some fictional models!!!
Poor face of God beaten to death for our sins!
How people can say they don`t love Him-they dont have heart?
JezusSlave 1 year ago
proves resurrection? It proves he died. That's all.
gregrutz 1 year ago
@gregrutz But he was resurrected. The romans placed guards and a giant stone in front of his tomb and yet on that morning the stone was rolled away, the guards nowhere in sight and the tomb empty. 11 untrained men could not overthrow soldiers of rome and move the stone all to say that Christ was risen and then allowed themselves to be killed to prove it. That's bad psychology.
GREATGAIWAIN 1 year ago
@GREATGAIWAIN It does not help to say 'Romans placed guards' when there weren't any guards in the morning. LOL
gregrutz 1 year ago
@gregrutz actually they were there because it was reported that they ran away cause some thing scared them and pushed away the stone.
GREATGAIWAIN 1 year ago
@GREATGAIWAIN how was the woman going to put perfume on Jesus's Body if there was a rock? how was she expecting to move it to enter?
6MemoryOfForever9 1 year ago
@JASONNHENCHMENN Jesus came with a new covenant, He concluded the 10 commandements into 2 commandements, love God with all your heart and power and love your neighbor as yourself.. What's the use if you preserve the Sabbath and have no love in your heart, what's the use of you care more about the days than you care about the love and mercy of God. Remember the Jews when they criticized Him that He was healing a man on a Sabbath, you know the rest of the story...
comali2212 1 year ago
@JASONNHENCHMENN The blind believed in Him simply because of his faith, He was cured & asked, who is He, where is He so I kneel before Him and worship.
He didn't even know His real name, He called Him the Son of David.
comali2212 1 year ago
@JASONNHENCHMENN It's still the same God- Man that we all Christians venerate & worship. It's not the names that Christians worship, it's who behind the names. If I want to ask and research why this and why that, I'll lose the essence which is faith, faith in Him who gave His life for us to be saved, and faith doesn't ask too much, faith is not questioning all the time.
comali2212 1 year ago
@JASONNHENCHMENN Neither before He was born. His name means God with us, or the Emmanuel. Jesus or Yashu'a is His earthly name given to Him by the angel Gabriel, Jesus is Yahweh, Jesus is Elohim, Jesus is God and Lord, Jesus is the Son of God and the Son of Man, Jesus is the Lamb.. See how many names He has! .. In arabic is Yassou'a, He still the same Christ. By the way, did the name Christ instead of Massih or Messiah came from paganism also?
Think about it.
comali2212 1 year ago
@JASONNHENCHMENN Jesus Christ is behind the Bible, and by His Spirit upon the gospels the Bible was written, don't you know that? If the Bible is wrong, then Jesus Christ is a forgery. It's all about faith my friend, whether you believe or not, it's up to you, and you alone.
comali2212 1 year ago
@JASONNHENCHMENN I could say that Jesus Christ married Mary Magdalen and had kids from her as well, isn't that what most of the channels on TV are talking about lately? .. Of course, the Bible need to be translated to many languages for the people to understand it and read it, if it was kept in hebrew language, you wouldn't find Christians all over the world now.
comali2212 1 year ago
@JASONNHENCHMENN It's not the shape of the cross that is worshipped, but Christ who were crucified on it.
They didn't put a sign over His head for everybody to see that He's the King of the Jews?, if so, it doesn't mean that He was lifted up?
comali2212 1 year ago
@JASONNHENCHMENN The rejection of God's laws is in nationalism that is spreading like a plague, not in the Church. Paganism is when you worship an idol, Christians doesn't worship idols, they worship Jesus Christ. If you go to Churches in Christmas time, you don't find santa claus in it, but a creche ot the nativity stable.
comali2212 1 year ago
@JASONNHENCHMENN Are you trying to say that the cross was a human invention to fool people?
The hole in the ground where the cross was planted is still a proof till this day in Jerusalem. If you go to Churches during the holy Friday or the Easter time which is the remembrance of the resurrection, you don't see neither bunnies, but you see an empty cross with a linen on it, a sign of Jesus's resurrection.
comali2212 1 year ago
@JASONNHENCHMENN They didn't mention all the miracles that Jesus did either, does that mean that Jesus didn't do thousands of miracles, remember the gospel of John?
They didn't mock Him by saying: If You're the Messiah "get down" from the cross so we believe?, they said get down from the cross not from the tree. or the Bible isn't accurate enough. There was no trees on Golgotha,did they crucify the thieves on a tree as well? The bible stated that He fell under the cross, not a tree, etc, etc...
comali2212 1 year ago
@JASONNHENCHMENN A tree because the cross was made from the wood of an olive tree. It was prepared by the Sanhedrin the night before the crucifixion.
The texts spoke about a crucifixion, whether He carried a beam or the whole cross, He was nailed on a crucifix, which means a cross.
comali2212 1 year ago
maybe this shroud was st. veronicas?
adeelies 1 year ago
@adeelies St. Veronica's piece of lenen is not the Shroud that covered Jesus, it's a smaller piece that only show the agony and suffering on the face of Jesus while He was carrying the cross on His way to be crucified.
comali2212 1 year ago
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@adeelies St. Veronica's piece of lenen is not the Shroud that covered Jesus, it's a smaller piece that only show the agony and suffering on the face of Jesus while He was carrying the cross on His way to be crucified.
comali2212 1 year ago
Fri June 4 SOME GOOD NEWS
One Less Problem for the world.
Murat Altun, 26, who was the driver and bodyguard for Bishop Luigi Padovese, was charged with murder on Friday at a court in the southern city of Iskenderun.
"I had a revelation and I killed him," Altun told investigators, the NTV television channel and Milliyet newspaper reported.
God works in mysterious ways but his justice is swift.
VideoAudioDisco09 1 year ago
THe fake shroud of turin has been carbon dated to NOT come from the so called time of christ, get over it ppl and wake up
tutoch 1 year ago
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blazeablunt4200 1 year ago
@blazeablunt4200 aww removed post /harhar
tutoch 1 year ago
@tutoch haha yes i did i forgot what comment it was tho
blazeablunt4200 1 year ago
Man creates life.
"Heralding a new era in biology, scientists for the first time have created a synthetic cell, completely controlled by man-made genetic instructions, which can survive and reproduce itself, researchers at the private J. Craig Venter Institute announced Thursday. "
boldecvr 1 year ago
That guy that claims the shroud is mentioned in John 20 :6 needs to read it again. It says STRIPS of cloth and a single cloth wrapped around his head. There are more than one piece. These are separate pieces and not one. This is proof the shoud is fake from the bibles own description.
boldecvr 1 year ago
@boldecvr The Jewish tradition,in this period, was to bandage bodies,much like Egyptian 'mummys' but using a wider bandage. As far as I am aware the most recent dating of this textile places it in the late 12th or early 13th C. Which proves, only, that it was not available at the reported time of Christ's death
theMacvarish 1 year ago
@boldecvr Don't forget that Jesus's face and to be more specific His Jaws were wrapped in another small piece of linen that surround his head as well to keep the mouth closed, because when Jesus died His mouth was kept open and His eyes half opened. This piece was wrapped to force the jaws to close.
comali2212 1 year ago
@comali2212 I think you are missing the point. The shroud of turin is one piece and the bible describes more than one piece. Clearly this is bogus based on the accounts from the bible.
boldecvr 1 year ago
@boldecvr Exactly, the Bible describe more than one piece, the other piece that was found is the piece that wrapped His head vertically to keep His open Jaw closed. It was placed beneath the Shroud. When Jesus died on the cross, He leaned His head to the right side and His jaw was kept open and that was caused from the last scream He shouted. Notice His jaw on the Shroud, it is leaned to one side.
comali2212 1 year ago
@comali2212 you have seen the proof of this? i would like to see it
tutoch 1 year ago
@boldecvr But the shroud was christianity's ONLY!!! piece of *proof* now they have zero. As i always say i might believe if i see proof in jesus and there is none, show me proof
tutoch 1 year ago
Three separate labs did a carbon test that showed the shroud to be made around 1200 ad. Secondly the shroud has been duplicated using methods known at the time . Presently questions here about how it was made is dishonest since it has already been shown.
boldecvr 1 year ago
This is idolatry.
TheLORDChrist 1 year ago
Oh Lord!
Again and as you did before, you're doing now. Sending a gift to people who believe in You, and a puzzle to the ones who doubt.
Blessed be Your name Lord and God Jesus Christ forever and ever.
comali2212 1 year ago
@comali2212 lol no i dont believe,, i have a free thinking brain
tutoch 1 year ago
it is the image of jaques de molay, the last grand master of the templars. He was tortured by the inquisition and crucified on a door frame. The shroud was used to cover him and the body in its distressed state produes acids which marked the fabric. The shroud was given to the church by the family of jeffery de charney who was demolays co defendant and whos family were allowed to help demolay recover after being tortured. They noticed the image some years later. The church obviously knows
alfaromeoash 1 year ago
@alfaromeoash And Jacques de molay was whipped by a Roman flagrum. and Jacques de molay was pierced by a Roman lance too, and crowned with thorns too, and was beatten like no man ever beatten in history, what a coincidence hein?
Now, how do you know that Jacques de molay looks like the man on the shroud, do you have a picture or a painting of him? if so, show it on YouTube to back up your story, does that make sense!
comali2212 1 year ago
@alfaromeoash So weak are the people who's trying to fight against Jesus Christ and so foolish are the people who believe them.
comali2212 1 year ago
@comali2212 by his captors accounts, De Molay received the same puishment as Christ as a pointed insult,as he was accused of "unimaginable heresy", so no coincedence either.There is no more proof that this image is he, than there is for it being Christ.Since no contemperous image exists of either, we will never know.
theMacvarish 1 year ago
@theMacvarish Google " Physical description of Jesus "
And you'll have a clue how He look like.
comali2212 1 year ago
@theMacvarish It's the same descriptions as the Man we see on the Shroud.
comali2212 1 year ago
@comali2212 If memory serves the only descriptions are those in the NT, which were written or re-written, 325 years after Christ's death. I have never come across a contempoerous description of the man in Christian or Roman accounts,attributed to the period covering his lifetime.Perhaps,one may exist in the "supressed" Gospels,but the fragments I have read contain no such information.
theMacvarish 1 year ago
@theMacvarish Neither you can find any other description in the OT or the NT about characters or prophets. Do we have a description on how Moses looked like? Do we have a description on how Abraham looked like, or John the Baptist, or Peter, John and the rest of the disciples?...
comali2212 1 year ago
@theMacvarish The Bible is just fragments, and more about the true existence, teachings and life of Christ than a description on how He looked like. Isn't John who said that if they wrote everything that Jesus did, the whole world won't be enough to contain it!
.
comali2212 1 year ago
@theMacvarish Not to mention that the Bible was written under extreme persecution.
Not to mention that many fragments and pieces were lost through the ages, and were put together again, that's why we see a lot of gaps in the Bible.
Not to mention that the gospels who wrote it, still had in their hearts and their heads a bit of their Judaism beliefs, that effected some of their writings
comali2212 1 year ago
@comali2212 I am at a loss comali2212 as to the point if your last posts. It was not I who mentioned Christ's appearance, but you.
theMacvarish 1 year ago
@theMacvarish I'm trying to explain to you, actually I'm trying to answer your question as well on why Christ doesn't have a physical description in the Bible, that was your question.
Don't you think that God want us to know how He look like!
He came in flesh, and gave us His flesh and blood for our salvation, and still doesn't want us to know how He look like!!
comali2212 1 year ago
@theMacvarish He wanted us to know and see how He look like, and what our sins did to Him, He wanted us to feel His passion by looking at His wounds, that's why He prepared the Shroud for the generations to come. God has a face, and a description, His not invisible anymore. Look how the scientists are puzzled by the Shroud and it's nature and how it was formed, it's another proof of the power of God against the scientists, yet His precious gift to the believers and not the doubtful ones.
comali2212 1 year ago
@comali2212 I can't imagine that God is bothered by scientists, since God,(in the Christian sense),created and loves them equally. The Shroud is a curious artefact, one which the Catholic Church has,steadfastly, refused to identify as being the image of Christ. The rest is opinion and conjecture.
theMacvarish 1 year ago
@theMacvarish God's not bothered by scientists nor science, He created them both. God is bothered by the doubtful scientists who are trying by any means to prove that the Shroud is not authentic.
If the Catholic Church refused to identify the Shroud as being the image of Christ, then why they expose it to the believers from all over the world as a sacred relic?
Maybe they think " De Molay " is holy and sacred! Lol
comali2212 1 year ago
@comali2212 Did God tell you he "was bothered by doubtful scientists" ? Surely he created them also ? As far as I am aware the only people who have ever examined the Shroud were all chosen by the Catholic Church, I doubt they were asked to prove it "is not authentic".Intresting that you find mockery and scorn amusing,I believe the Romans did to.
theMacvarish 1 year ago
@theMacvarish He told many visionaries, not me.
So the Catholic Church believe the Shroud is not authentic " that's what you wrote", then why the Catholic Church is exposing the Shroud as a sacred relic?
You have no answer?
Mockery and scorn? who are using mockery being telling ridiculous and fake stories about the most venerated and sacred relic in history of mankind, isn't you? De Molay huh! I've never heard that story but from you.
comali2212 1 year ago
@comali2212 Post any site where the Vatican claims it is real.I think you may have heard the De Molay story before,14 days ago you desparaged the person who first raised it,here.Which if I remember my catechism, makes you a liar and a sinner. And there is more "in history of mankind", than Christian idolatry
theMacvarish 1 year ago
@theMacvarish I'm a sinner but not a liar, and by the way who are you to judge me, mister?
The actions worth millions of claiming words don't you know that, smarty!
The Shroud is venerated in the Catholic Church, " Venerated ", google this word and know what exactly means, instead of blabbing the same words over and over again.
comali2212 1 year ago
@comali2212 Christian idolatry, hmmm so you believe that idolatry exist. If you believe in idolatry then you must believe in something. State what you believe in, instead of just hiding behind useless claimings and accusations.
Does that make sense to you, or need more!
comali2212 1 year ago
@comali2212 I know idolatry exists I was educated in Catholic seminary,there they taught me the meaning of "venerated".And I don't "have to believe in something" or anything ;belief is a choice.Was it Mattew who spoke on judgment ? But you're the expert you can lecture me on that, also.
theMacvarish 1 year ago
@theMacvarish Sure is a choice, who says the contrary!
I'm not an expert, let that for preachers and Bible experts, I'm not here to lecture anybody, I'm here to clear the dirt that has been built over the reality and the true source of the Shroud of Turin, and better call it the Shroud of Jesus Christ.
comali2212 1 year ago
@comali2212 Shroud of Male: apparently crucified,origin unknown. As I said at the beginning, the rest is conjecture or a matter of belief. You want to worship textile go ahead, enjoy.
theMacvarish 1 year ago
@theMacvarish It's all a matter of belief, belief and faith, finally you got it..
Jesus Christ is not a myth, He's mystical.
I don't worship a textile, I'm worshipping what the textile represent, you just don't get it!
It's not about textiles, marbels, statues, woods, gold or bronze, it's not about paintings and pictures or icons, it's about what all these objects represent.
comali2212 1 year ago
@theMacvarish Whoever this Shroud represent, it's definitely not just another Shroud. If it was a Shroud of any other Male, the world wouldn't be interested that much in it... Meditate on that.
comali2212 1 year ago
The Vatican never authenticated anything...new evidence in scientific journal shows that medieval repair was expertly woven into fringe of shroud where carbon sample was cut thus skewing the dating...there's plenty of evidence showing its authenticity and prior history to 1300s
AFonhio 1 year ago
The shoud of Turin is a fake and has never been authenticated by the Vatican.
lizazoon 1 year ago
this guy sounds like some over paid Baptist minister who loves the sound if his own voice.
bandman48 1 year ago
"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake."
blattt188 2 years ago
Open your hearts, your hearts..
And you'll see the heart of the Lord through this image.
I see the Word of God in every detail of the Shroud.
comali2212 2 years ago
Fuck off you brainless cunt
zxzxznapalmdeath 2 years ago
Hey, I think you qualify for a terrorist. You hate America and want to fight me because of my religion. Just strap a bomb to your chest and you'll make the team buddy.
MrZetterlund777 2 years ago
Oh..so now Im the terrorist because your American and such a religious nut?
Um,the rest of the world, Americans like you can never be wrong right? Your American and because your american you can never be wrong. Your interests are religion & science, your American so therefore you have to be correct, who dare oppose an American that what he says is incorrect.
Tell a Muslim that Allah is also the name of other religious Gods. Islam kills other religions for simply believing in another religion.
zxzxznapalmdeath 2 years ago
F you dickhead :p
comali2212 2 years ago
It was proven a fake from the medival times. Religious junkies will go on.
zxzxznapalmdeath 2 years ago
As they say, ignorance is bliss.
MrZetterlund777 2 years ago
The funniest thing about the whole Shroud of Turin debate is this: How does the Shroud prove a resurrection? The Shroud no more proves a resurrection then the number of other things stolen from graves over the years by grave robbers prove a resurrection of a person buried in those graves. The resurrection is the great stumbling block of the christian faith because it has no validity. So the Shroud was simply (MADE) by one of the many great artist during the middle ages to give it some validity.
globalgoblin 2 years ago
It shows proof of the ressurection because studies have shown that the image was braught on by a radiation of some sort natural phenomena. (some may consider a supernatural phenomena). And the Shroud is not a painting. A painting would look bland during the VP8 tests. Making it an obvious fake. That wasn't the case for the Shroud. If I where to take anyone to court over this, I'd win with flying colors.
MrZetterlund777 2 years ago
Um,..ok. since it has been proven to be a fake. Carbon dating has shown it is a fake. Only religious people dont want to accept science as fact. What is your problem MrZetter of understanding that religion is a man made structure to manipulate people for profit. Go to the Vatican,.you'll soon learn that even they wish not to discuss these findings. Dont fool yourself like you have or try with others.
Do you know how stupid that sounds? The shroud is real? Proven a fake.. yet you believe other?
zxzxznapalmdeath 2 years ago
To say radiocarbondating, one of the most sensitive scientific prosseses disproves the Shroud is rediculous. The shoud has been burned, flooded on, and preserved for many centuries. Any of these could throw off the carbondating prosses. It was re-woven in the 16th century with cotton to hold the linen that (by the way) could only be found in 1st century A.D. "proof" is an arrogant word if used in science, only a word tossed around by skeptics.
MrZetterlund777 2 years ago
You religious nut,.when a 1,000 years ago we heard thunder,.what did people believe? we never understood the cause as we never knew,.so it was the Gods being angry..........1,000 years later we understand the cause,.its simple and self explanitory,........but people like you will never understand the true logic and reasons as your head is so far up your ass with your religious beliefs of a figment of imagination. btw.there is NO factual evidence of Jesus before he was 33. work it out Einstien
zxzxznapalmdeath 2 years ago
"History is a pack of lies about events that never happened told by people who weren't there." - George Santayana, American philosopher (1863-1952).
Our God simply says He did it, never said how. You're arguing against religion, not the subject at hand. My religious beliefs have evolved. Atheists actually disreguard much philosophy, making atheism poor one. No good philosopher is an atheist. Agnostic, yes, but not atheist.
MrZetterlund777 2 years ago
Read his words that you chose as an example MrZetter. How do we know of events is we werent there? but it happened, so therefore it must be true. 2,000 years later you still believe in the parting of the sea? the invasion of locusts (which could well be a natural infestation like a plague of rats created from mans own doing, as we never knew of microscopic bacteria)
Its logic alone that tells the truth.
Now your religious head is boring me, as there is nothing there.
zxzxznapalmdeath 2 years ago
So logic alone tells the truth, huh? What about situations that go outside of logic? That's actually the idea purposed by the story of the Hair and the Tortise. It's obsurd that a tortise would beat a hair, but in a situation where this is the outcome, and logic fails, what then?
(yes, this is a real philosophical question in the history of philosophy.)
I think God certainly steps outside the bounderies of being solved with logic. I'll send you a video to show you what I mean.
MrZetterlund777 2 years ago
your 100% stupid. This day and age, muslim, Christains, Jewish, Buddists .any religion will say.I dont know no more, my faith has changed.'
you gonna tell themthat modern histiry and science is BS?
I think not,.your prob American right?.............AND from a small village or a population of no more than 3 people? lol
zxzxznapalmdeath 2 years ago
Thank you for displaying the entirety of the atheist argument. Calling the oponent stupid. I live in Gulf Breeze Florida. Tourist central. And thanks for assuming I'm a Y.E.C. Christian does not = Young Earth Creationist. Catholics understand genisis in a way that makes evolution possible. Catholics aren't fundamentalsts.
MrZetterlund777 2 years ago
Your American. Religious and fucking annoying with your brain dead religions just like that 'comali2212'
You see what you want to see with images appearing, the same as the Muslims do with Allahs name in arabic in muffins, bread, fruit, anything. Only religious cunts believe its God doing things you dont understand. You Roman Catholic? Created by the Romans.
read about it dick head.
zxzxznapalmdeath 2 years ago
Mmmm.... Yell it in my ear. Oh yes. And by the way, Allah is the same God as my God. Lol:
"Only religious cunts believe its God doing things you dont undertand." Such as a burst of radiation that created a perfect image of the human body? Hm, gee, how stupid of me to think that. Atheists are sooo repulsive. You had no reason to rip on comali2212. He's being charitable. And you know I'm smarter than you. My favorite subjects; Science, phiosophy, and religion. Good day sir.
MrZetterlund777 2 years ago
Shut the fuck up you American religious freak. Create your own life and think for yourself. Instantly your the top notch in religion because you believe in a religion that believes the same as every other religion 'My religion is the truth'.
Seems you dare not own up to your religion....you play in riddles.
Allah is the same God as your God?
So every religion has the same God, but just kill other religious names for the sake of killing?
And yeah,.your smarter than I am...wow
zxzxznapalmdeath 2 years ago
Yes, I am smarter than you. Jews, Christians, and Muslums all worship the Hebrew God. (Muslums are a little "out there" though.) According to their beliefs, they aren't supposed to harm the innocent. Your thinking of those jerks in the Talaban. They threaten even Muslums. They see us as "infadels" yet their teachings are way contrary to the Jewish Torah and prophets and the Christian Bible. Basically, beware of false prophets.
MrZetterlund777 2 years ago
How am I "playing in riddles" -?
MrZetterlund777 2 years ago
Oh, when you said: "You see what you want to see with images appearing" Well that's nice. But a thousand people cant all hallucinate nd see the same thing. Nor can a photograph hallucinate. Nor can your hallucination's actions be visible to those around you.
MrZetterlund777 2 years ago
It was predicted that those attracted to light (Truth) will gravitate to it.
Those who hate the truth will be repulsed by the light.
So you see your annoyance is predicted and understood.
The entire scientific community has accepted it as an image .
Yet you dont. hahahahah
Why dont you read about that.
JAMRAND 2 years ago
What is this a competition between you religious freaks about who is the most devoted worshipper? Fuck off with your religious thoughts and comments that OTHER people have already said which you copy and paste and make out your highly intelligent. Its nothing to do with being repulsed by 'the light' its being repulsed by people like you.
zxzxznapalmdeath 2 years ago
@zxzxznapalmdeath STATED
"++++ off with your religious beliefs"
You come to a religious video just to tell us to keep it to ourselves.
The irony.
JAMRAND 2 years ago
"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake." --Jesus Christ 33 A.D.
Thank you.
blattt188 2 years ago
@blattt188 fuck off ok
your welcome
marcelokdl 2 years ago
sounds like a fossil proving evolution
joemadly 2 years ago
There were at least 26 supposed burial shrouds scattered throughout the abbeys of Europe, of which the Shroud of Turin is just one. The Shroud of Turin is one of the many relics manufactured during the Middle Ages. The Shroud was declared a fake by a bishop during the time who discovered the artist. The Shroud of Turin is also not consistent with the so-called Gospel accounts of Jesus' burial, which clearly refer to multiple cloths and a separate napkin over his face.
globalgoblin 2 years ago
There is no artist because there is no artwork. If the shroud where a painting, it would have failed the VP8 test epically. And being bound in extra strips of linen wouldn't interfear with the image on the shroud. And if you look at the head of the image on the shroud, it has more depth than the rest of the image, and the hair hangs straight down, as though it where constricted. Possibly because of the hankerchief wrapped around His head. The Gospel says it was wrapped around His head.
MrZetterlund777 2 years ago
Great video. All this proof and still they bicker... fools.
dom198013 2 years ago