@JontyTrain That's because this organ had SERIOUS winding problems at the time this was recorded. This was before the Mander rebuild, and it is since much better.
Mr. Marshall is a splendid virtuoso. Messiaen's works call for color, flexibility and imagination; his own recordings of his work bears this out, and this was presented with great style.
That the artist was handicapped with an acoustically dead room and a wheezing instrument is not his fault. He had to work with what was dealt him. The self-appointed YouStoopid guardians of style might want to consider such conditions.
I know only one recording of Messiaen himself, where he plays the final toccata (in octave) even faster, relatively to the reverberation.
Second: This is transports de joie. The title means something very short in time, stealing your breath. This is far more guilty to play it slowly, and even a dead sin to condemn a student to a bad censure because he plays as fast as Messiaen.
Frankly, the organ isn't great, either - it's a big, heavy-sounding old thing, with none of the fire a Willis should have. The new hall should have either a brand new organ, or this one much revoiced to sound more like a Willis should. And yes, I have heard it since it was restored, many times. It's still no bloody good.
Marshall's playing is awful, and you can hear that the organ was falling to bits. Also, the RAH is a dreadful building which was designed by a man who knew nothing about music or acoustics - it ought to be pulled down and replaced with a proper rectangular hall, in red brick Victorian Gothic (re-using the RAH's bricks and matching the RCM across the road style-wise).
Apparently when the technicians dismantled it they found that one of the blowers was actually connected the wrong way and "sucking" instead of "blowing". That's one reason it sounds incredibly out of tune as the chords pile up - its just running out of wind so the mixtures go really flat!
@tjugofyra Yes many of the stops were not working, wind leakage was dire, basically it was falling to pieces. In this recording, (and in other performances until restoration), two technicians from Harrisons (who then looked after the instrument) were on standby to 'plug' any problems. It's amazing the organ could even deliver the performance in this recording.
I heard a radio interview once with one of those technicians who had to run up in the case to find ciphers when they sounded off. Famously a few years ago it was an ophicleide during a John Taverner work!
Yes it was a tough job to keep the organ in one piece - toward the end the view was that the organ was verging on the unplayable. I don't think it was used for a while prior to the restoration. A Manders Organ outing to the Hall let us scramble around inside the case, whilst the last demo before it was dismantled revealed a very tired instrument sounding like a harmonium. It really should never have descended to that condition - would this happen in the US? Don't think so!
@JFSnail - well, a ciphering Ophicleide would at least have lent some musicality to that charlatan Tavener's work (note spellingof surname - or are you talking about John Taverner, 1490-1545?).
No kidding! I'm so glad they restored it. I think there is a video on youtube of Olivier Latry playing this same piece on this organ only after the restoration. It sounds glorious!
One more thing. The Related Videos that are popping up seem to focus on the Marshall part rather than Messiaen or RAH. Maybe you should re-arrange your Tags? ;-)
The RAH is not very 'reverberant'. I have attended hundreds of Concerts and Proms over the years (from the 1960s) and its always been the same: a fairly dead, lifeless acoustic, not well given over to musical performances. But then it was never designed for it anyway. This is actually a good recording, about as good as it gets with the current technology.
I am going with mic placement on this, BBC sound engineers have always moaned how difficult it is to balance. And don't forget the organ was in a state and Marshall prob registered for max impact...
@JFSnail It's still difficult today. In organ concerts the panoply over the orchestral pit is lifted in an effort not to block sound forward, but the overall config of the Hall is against the instrument. I once had the opportunity to walk around the entire Hall and sit at different levels and positions (Circle, Prom etc) in an organ concert, and it never sounded balanced at all. The layout of the divisions within the case doesn't help either. As you say a real challenge for the sound engineers!
I also have Wayne Marshall performing Dieu Parmi Nous on the restored organ from last year again on VHS tape). Although different pieces the contrast in the organ's abilities is quite astonishing. Here the organ is 'warmer' but obviously worse for wear. In the latest incarnation the overall effect is less 'warm', less bass (we know why) but the upperwork is devastating. Will try and get it loaded on here.
Stroke of luck really, didn't have a high quality tape, but expensive Panansonic recorder. This recording was more bass-heavy than usual, don't know why, recorded in Nicam stereo. Thats how I like this organ to sound, love the big pedal and tubas!!
The renovated organ sounds far more strident in the upper registers. Maybe we should start a 'bring back the roof' campaign?
@JFSnail I've already annoyed the Organ Consultant about cleaning the facade pipes JFS - if we go on about bringing back the roof I think he might blow a fuse!!
I can't believe the BBC put this out with the organ is such an appalling state. It is practically unplayable.
jgh548 2 days ago
Have a listen to the Oliver Latry proms performance of this, the organ has gone up about a quarter tone, the chorus sounds totally knackered here.
JontyTrain 2 weeks ago
@JontyTrain That's because this organ had SERIOUS winding problems at the time this was recorded. This was before the Mander rebuild, and it is since much better.
TubaMirabilis123 2 days ago
Marshall is amazing but the organ sounds absolutely horrific!
jgh548 1 month ago
Mr. Marshall is a splendid virtuoso. Messiaen's works call for color, flexibility and imagination; his own recordings of his work bears this out, and this was presented with great style.
That the artist was handicapped with an acoustically dead room and a wheezing instrument is not his fault. He had to work with what was dealt him. The self-appointed YouStoopid guardians of style might want to consider such conditions.
musicalhotcha 3 months ago
What was the commentator talking about? The sounds were terrible!
MrTenonSaw 3 months ago
Still with the winding problems??? just saaaags at the end
ears61 5 months ago
A truly marvelous performance from my old tutor! Especially as this poor old heap hadn't been restored at the time. Well done :-)
lee1984yate 6 months ago
First: he plays so fast because he can :-D
Ha ha!
I know only one recording of Messiaen himself, where he plays the final toccata (in octave) even faster, relatively to the reverberation.
Second: This is transports de joie. The title means something very short in time, stealing your breath. This is far more guilty to play it slowly, and even a dead sin to condemn a student to a bad censure because he plays as fast as Messiaen.
3rd the organ has been restored, so all is fine.
bvsiness 1 year ago
@bvsiness Got to agree with that. And I was at the RAH for this performance. It was an electrifying effort on a very tired instrument.
ds1868 1 year ago
VILE !!!!! This performance is revolting.
pipeorgansonlyplease 1 year ago
I'm sorry but this is just awful.
Vierne7037 1 year ago
I'm sorry but this is just awful!
Vierne7037 1 year ago
I have no idea why he plays this so fast!
4candles 1 year ago
Frankly, the organ isn't great, either - it's a big, heavy-sounding old thing, with none of the fire a Willis should have. The new hall should have either a brand new organ, or this one much revoiced to sound more like a Willis should. And yes, I have heard it since it was restored, many times. It's still no bloody good.
EccentricRichard 1 year ago
Marshall's playing is awful, and you can hear that the organ was falling to bits. Also, the RAH is a dreadful building which was designed by a man who knew nothing about music or acoustics - it ought to be pulled down and replaced with a proper rectangular hall, in red brick Victorian Gothic (re-using the RAH's bricks and matching the RCM across the road style-wise).
EccentricRichard 1 year ago
I cant stand wayne marshalls playing
joeyboi87 2 years ago
SuperVideodave´s right and right! Outbursts of joy alright!
degautaborg 2 years ago
THIS IS SO INCREDIBLY ORGASMIC!!!! I've heard a lot a lot a lot and a lot of versions of this piece but man..... WAWAWOOWI!!!!
SuperVideodave 2 years ago
Apparently when the technicians dismantled it they found that one of the blowers was actually connected the wrong way and "sucking" instead of "blowing". That's one reason it sounds incredibly out of tune as the chords pile up - its just running out of wind so the mixtures go really flat!
nosib007 2 years ago
That is so completely bizarre I can believe it!
ds1868 2 years ago
is it just me or is this pretty bad playing ?
simonjp90 2 years ago
@simonjp90 yes, it is you
orgelspielen 6 months ago
Clearly an organ in very very bad shape!
tjugofyra 2 years ago
@tjugofyra Yes many of the stops were not working, wind leakage was dire, basically it was falling to pieces. In this recording, (and in other performances until restoration), two technicians from Harrisons (who then looked after the instrument) were on standby to 'plug' any problems. It's amazing the organ could even deliver the performance in this recording.
ds1868 2 years ago
I heard a radio interview once with one of those technicians who had to run up in the case to find ciphers when they sounded off. Famously a few years ago it was an ophicleide during a John Taverner work!
JFSnail 2 years ago
Yes it was a tough job to keep the organ in one piece - toward the end the view was that the organ was verging on the unplayable. I don't think it was used for a while prior to the restoration. A Manders Organ outing to the Hall let us scramble around inside the case, whilst the last demo before it was dismantled revealed a very tired instrument sounding like a harmonium. It really should never have descended to that condition - would this happen in the US? Don't think so!
ds1868 2 years ago
@ds1868 - it wouldn't happen in the US? Atlantic City Convention Hall, anyone?
EccentricRichard 1 year ago
@JFSnail - well, a ciphering Ophicleide would at least have lent some musicality to that charlatan Tavener's work (note spellingof surname - or are you talking about John Taverner, 1490-1545?).
EccentricRichard 1 year ago
No kidding! I'm so glad they restored it. I think there is a video on youtube of Olivier Latry playing this same piece on this organ only after the restoration. It sounds glorious!
codeman2008 2 years ago
One more thing. The Related Videos that are popping up seem to focus on the Marshall part rather than Messiaen or RAH. Maybe you should re-arrange your Tags? ;-)
a55b47 2 years ago
well, there might be a few disappointed people who wanted to see the 'other' Wayne Marshall.
Also love the way the voiceover by well known BBC journalist called the organ a 'machine' at the end of the clip, had to keep that in! :-)
JFSnail 2 years ago
Nice transfer. But the RAH's acoustics seem a LOT less reverberant than usual. Maybe it's the microphone placement?
a55b47 2 years ago
The RAH is not very 'reverberant'. I have attended hundreds of Concerts and Proms over the years (from the 1960s) and its always been the same: a fairly dead, lifeless acoustic, not well given over to musical performances. But then it was never designed for it anyway. This is actually a good recording, about as good as it gets with the current technology.
ds1868 2 years ago
I am going with mic placement on this, BBC sound engineers have always moaned how difficult it is to balance. And don't forget the organ was in a state and Marshall prob registered for max impact...
JFSnail 2 years ago
@JFSnail It's still difficult today. In organ concerts the panoply over the orchestral pit is lifted in an effort not to block sound forward, but the overall config of the Hall is against the instrument. I once had the opportunity to walk around the entire Hall and sit at different levels and positions (Circle, Prom etc) in an organ concert, and it never sounded balanced at all. The layout of the divisions within the case doesn't help either. As you say a real challenge for the sound engineers!
ds1868 2 years ago
Nice one JFS! The sound transfer is also good!
I also have Wayne Marshall performing Dieu Parmi Nous on the restored organ from last year again on VHS tape). Although different pieces the contrast in the organ's abilities is quite astonishing. Here the organ is 'warmer' but obviously worse for wear. In the latest incarnation the overall effect is less 'warm', less bass (we know why) but the upperwork is devastating. Will try and get it loaded on here.
Again, thanks for posting!
ds1868 2 years ago
Stroke of luck really, didn't have a high quality tape, but expensive Panansonic recorder. This recording was more bass-heavy than usual, don't know why, recorded in Nicam stereo. Thats how I like this organ to sound, love the big pedal and tubas!!
The renovated organ sounds far more strident in the upper registers. Maybe we should start a 'bring back the roof' campaign?
JFSnail 2 years ago
@JFSnail I've already annoyed the Organ Consultant about cleaning the facade pipes JFS - if we go on about bringing back the roof I think he might blow a fuse!!
ds1868 2 years ago