Frank Turek is nothing like Richard Dawkins. They both have brains but there the similarity ends. Richard Dawkins actually knows how to use his brain.
Its a bad logic to say the only time started with universe. Its extremely short sighted and lazy to think this way even though you might misinterpret the theory that science provides about Big Bang. If you claim this you must have said that everything that exists as reality is 13,6 billion years old when it had infinity behind it to get started. Monkey brains cannot rationalize this because we dont have true concept of infinity nor can our brain comprehend it. Infinity doesnt have alfa or omega.
@StardustSpaceMonkey If the universe encompasses everything, then time did start with the Universe.
However did the Universe start with the Big Bang? No it changed the state of which it existed as from a singularity to a transitional form which it exists as today.
Your arguement is both pointless and without basis.
@gotsda You think somehow all the pieces just managed to got here just the way they are in our known universe? Duh, what were the odds of that happening.. No I dont like finities because only finite thing have alfa and omega, like we could say rain starts and stops, human comes to life and dies, nothing really stops, the energy in its form just changes. Only we have concept of alfa and omega and limited reality. But you choose to make your assumptions on what ever theory of gaps.
No Im saying everything has always existed, just not in the same form.
We can try to date the big bang (NOT the start of the universe) but to predate the Universe (not the big bang) is to predate the existance of anything and everything, including time.
Nothing came into existance it just was, and then changed form, as you say "energy in its form just changes" therefore putting a starting point on time before the universe is illogical.
@gotsda As I stated there is no real alfa and omega but for us on things that we have meaning. I agree that everything has always existed in a form or another. We just cant see too far like what has been before our big bang, what kind of other universes there might be etc.. but I think our universe had an infinite time come to existence before and this moment is as meaningless as any other point of "time". Like you said only forms change. Our universe is only one form of the source.
@gotsda nice, dudes! Good example. But... The universe did not have a infinite time before the bigbang because time itself did not start before the bigbang. So... you agree - and that is cool - but you did not get all facts straigth. I am feeling kind of bad to say it, but the three of us agree that truth is the best police, hum? :-)
@gotsda Those two things: the universe started to exist (that is an act that demands time) when time came to exist - both during the bigbang. Time is demonstrably not a constant.
This is an example of "Begging the question" since it assumes that a cause is required.
When it comes to cosmology and quantum physics we need to discard "common sense" notions of cause and effect. In the quantum world, things appear to happen at random with no cause being visible (radioactive decay, virtual particles).
We should accept the possibility that the universe maybe didn't have a cause and maybe didn't need a cause.
@mandolinic I cant get my head around that in the slightest lol, I mean tbh im a non theist, but if it is possible that the Universe did not need a cause then it is possible there is a God, bith are unbeleivable
His very first claim is absolutely wrong. The first argument he made was about the second law of thermodynamics. He greatly mischaracterizes this law by implying that all energy in the universe is gradually dissapating.
This is tremendously untrue. Newton's second law is one of the most steadfast laws of physics ever postulated. The universe isn't running out of energy. It just happens to be redshifting away or breaking down into very inert states, in the case of dying stars.
@YaleBreaker Thank you, that's right. I was unclear when I said energy is breaking down. I only meant it is becoming more entropic and "expended" in the traditional suns. Stars become inert, cold bodies... Radiation, heat, and light are all finite and eventually divde down to equally energetic but less concentrated or useful forms.
@jsnake01 When creationists bring up the Second Law and point to the "order" in stars and galaxies, it raises the interesting point that something which appears to have order - like a galaxy - is in fact a mechanism of decay. On the one hand it's a pretty shape, on the other it's a giant fire burning itself out. It's that it's counter-intuitive to think of stellar formation as an act of "decay" because of the word's informal connotations relating to "structure".
I should really study up on that theory of relativity and the theory of the big bang. I've come up with the opinion that existence is, and always has been, everlasting, so I really find it hard to believe there was ever a starting point of existence, time, and space. I do find it interesting that the universe is possibly expanding, which suggests a focal point that could have encompassed whatever matter was available in existence before the BB even happened. Only opinion at this point. =(
@NairuOnLife "the universe is possibly expanding"
There's no "possibly" about it. It's been known for certain since the 1920s that the universe really is expanding, and furthermore it has been more recently discovered that the rate of expansion is increasing. No one knows why it's increasing so for now cosmologists assume there's a previously unknown force called "Dark Energy" at work. No one knows what Dark Energy is...
the second law of TD is only applicable to a closed system we dont know if the universe is closed system and the net energy of the universe is zero because of dark matter
Hey, there were something before time. A land. Yeah, there were a whole land before time, and it was created in 1988 and had 12 direct-to-video sequels. And this land were created by a trinity called the Bluth, the Lucas and the holy Spielberg.
The burden of proof is not on the side of the non-believer. It should be on the believer. How can you prove something that isn't observable, measurable, experimental?
I have an invisible friend in my room, only me can see her, now prove me wrong...
Of courses you can't. I should present my evidence of her existence first before you can disprove my claims.
@chesster423 You never answered my question, How do you know for a fact that God doesn't exist? I know God exists because I can feel his presence all the time. And he's healed just about everyone in my family my Grandma who is 93 years old was on her death bed with pneumonia, and God said it wasn't her time and the next day she didn't remember what happened when she was dying and she is perfectly fine now.
@alienware222 why didnt he save your great granma or your other family memebers that will die? why god kill de ickle babies dem and mek folk disabled. he a mean fucker. and you a mean fucker for worhsip a mean god
@GBJ83 I'll answer the first part, because my great grandma did all that God called her to do on this earth, and it was God's time for her to come with him.
@alienware222 why does your god kill babies? try and give me a funny answer about how babies go straight to heaven, why dont you kill babies? whatever you do is gods will so stop being selfish and sacrifice yourself to "hell" to liberate babies to heaven. you basically can justify anything you sick baby killing paedo.
why does your god make people disabled? to test them? go and break your legs.
your god is a mean fuck and you and your cult army are mean fucks for worshipping it.
@alienware222 so you are saying god kills us humans once we have done all he has made us do on earth? fact 1. half a day old and younger babies get killed by your god. fact 2. your great gran (decades older than baby)was taken by your lord too.
conclusion(using alienware222 logic) = granma took 70 odd years to accomplish what a little baby did (in gods eyes). gran was selfish or at least inefficient for living so long when she could have done what he wanted in less than a day.
@GBJ83 He doesn't kill us because he feels like it, when it's our time to come home to him he will take us up in the clouds with him. And about your statement about disabled people, God doesn't disable people or kill babies Satan does. John 10:10 says: The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly. By that verse right there, Is destroying disabling? Is killing babies what Satan does?
@alienware222 ohh thanks for helping me out here. i never knew it was satan all along. makes sense.
but that means that A) your god must be impotent if he cant deal with satan, or B) your god must be evil if he can deal with satan but just chooses to ignore him and let us suffer.
@alienware222 conclusion 2. (according to my logic) = god doesnt exist, he doesnt call anyone, he doesnt kill anyone because there is no such fat controller. your gran was an asset to you family and a beacon of light showing that clean living and grespect for fellow beings can give one a long decent fulfilling life. god didnt make your gran good, she chose to be good. (assuming she was good). god didnt kill her, she died of old age. this shit happens a lot. disease kills too.
@alienware222 accorrding to you, your god. according to normal people, its due to the effects of our environment and us not adapting quick enough to cope with it.
May I know how old you are? you seem like a kid. How did I know that God doesn't exist? because I don't know, and you don't know 100% for sure. Well, okay, your mother has been healed by God that day, did you realize that on that day 25,000 of children are dying in Africa because of starvation? you mean that on that day, your God is focusing on your grandma's health while ignoring billions of prayers around the world asking for help? Think before you believe.
@chesster423 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences,[b] and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
dude, I'll tell you this. You don't believe in a God. You believe in a personal God, an imaginary being who lives to comfort you in times of desperation. Going back in your grandma's miracle, did you realize on that exact day and exact time, billions of people around the world died of disease, gang raped, murdered, massacred, plane crash, car accident, struck by lightning, died in starvation, and your God, I mean personal God, is in your grandma's skirt healing her.
@chesster423 You realize that Lucifer(Satan) made everything that you just said? And people blame it on God saying it's his fault, when it's really Satan's.
@SSjLuigi1 He was one of God's angels and he thought he could over throw God with the limited power that God gave him, God threw him out of heaven into earth and now Satan does evil things in this world such as cancer, aids, tsunamis, tornadoes, earthquakes. etc
@alienware222 Yeah so God is technically responsible for all that the devil does too, after all he is one of his creations. Why not jut get rid of him? Also cancer, aids, tsunamis, tornadoes and earthquakes are nothing supernatural, it can all be explained.
@SSjLuigi1 If you seek God with all your heart I believe with all my heart you will find him, But you have to seek him with all your heart. God loves you all unconditionally and he cares about each and everyone of you. Jesus loves you!
Really? I see the bible to be nothing more than a few thousand years old book, and people CLAIM that its some gods word, but cant demonstrate it, just like all the other religions out there.
Also i would not call it a warning, its more like a empty threat, just like the threat coming from Santa claus.
Why do i call it empty? Since i have no reason to take it seriously.
Why do i call it a threat? Since its very much, do this or else i will do bad things to you
@alienware222 Your cherry picking what you want out of your religion, your ignoring all the horrible acts that happen as a result of Gods demand. What is it about the heart that makes you believe there is a God? Is it because because your brain is already used to rationalize thoughts and to apply logic to your everyday life? Its not like if you say I have no gas in my car but i believe with all my heart that i will make it to my destination, doesn't work that way right?
@SSjLuigi1 There will be a day when God does get rid of him for all eternity, but us as Christians are to share God's word with others, so no one is gotten rid of when he comes back, instead there is a mansion waiting for you in heaven, just for doing his decrees.
Problem 1: People don't want to believe in God, simply because they can't see him or don't have any evidence.
Problem 2: God doesn't do evil things, Satan does unbelievers are deceived by Satan who has made them think it's God's fault.
@alienware222 WOW.. that is ridiculous. IF what you are saying is true about your God, then he is not all powerful and is not allowing. If God knew that there would be nonbelievers due to lack of evidence, then why wouldn't he allow science to be able to provide evidence for his existence? Is he playing some sort of trick because he allowed the existence of a realm of endless torture for nonbelievers right? Plus God does do evil things, genocide, slavery, floods, torture, etc.
@chesster423 Yes I believe Zelda came to this earth at one point and time... No I don't that's a fantasy, the evidence and proof of God lies all around us. People just don't see it because they haven't found God.
dude, I'll tell you this. You don't believe in a God. You believe in a personal God, an imaginary being who lives to comfort you in times of desperation. Going back in your grandma's miracle, did you realize on that exact day and exact time, billions of people around the world died of disease, gang raped, murdered, massacred, plane crash, car accident, struck by lightning, died in starvation, and your God, I mean personal God, is in your grandma's skirt healing her.
Talking about something 'before' the big bang is a bit like talking about walking to the north pole, and once you are there, walking a couple of miles further north.
@bradkey98765 What you missed is the fact that time is a measurement of change nothing can change as a singularity so time does not exist at the point of a singularity that's why time is considered a dimension rather than a governing law. So basically time basically happens again, things might not be the same, although the life span of the universe might be a fixed digit depending on how the energy changes each time.
Atheist here, I am against the statement "There cannot be time “before” the big bang".
From what I know "The big crunch" is still viewed as a legitimate possibility for the end of a universe, our best “guess” is that such an event would end in a singularity. It is then a possibility for this singularity to be the cause of a “big bang” event.
If it is possible that the big bang preceded a "big crunch" then "There cannot be time before the big bang." is a false statement.
everything burns out to nothing? if you burn something to a crisp there is still something there...
look at that on a universal scale, when all that burnt out shit gets compressed together at immense pressure , if it gets compressed together after it is all burnt out to an amazingly small point is space what happens to it in the quantum level? answer being NO ONE KNOWS. i don't know and no one else knows. deal with it until we do know.
Given enough time (and we're talking huge numbers) all particles will eventually decay. At the end of the universe, all matter will decay into energy, and that energy will be spread out in the vastness of the ever expanding universe. The energy density of the universe will be effectively zero.
It will probably be like Phoenix with all the excitement removed.
The reason why people have a very difficult time understanding how their could not be a "before"... before time started, is because it seems most people view time as linear, and in our minds, when we think of time, we think of a beginning and an end. Even the word "beginning" is misleading because there was no beginning of time. Time is a dimension that has always existed. Language is what makes the topic so complicated, not the understanding of the dimension of time.
These guys need to learn what is known. We can only see so far back in time...limited by the speed of light. At a certain point in history all known physics breaks down and there is no way of knowing what existed before the expansion.
There is no evidence that there was nothing. We simply can not understand what was and may never.
the one thing they have in common, which i think youre trying to put across, is that the forms are all energy. that being said, yes they are fundamentally the same thing if you look at it like that. when energy is transformed or transferred, the total ammount remains the same. there is no loss. what you were saying is we will eventually have heat death in the universe. at least i think thats what you were saying. i disagree.
are you saying that the universe is a closed and isolated system? that was my initial question that started this conversation. are you saying that eventually we will experience heat death on a universal scale? and how is gravitational energy the same as thermal energy? i agree to disagree with you. the types of energy are not all the same, but they can be transformed and changed depending on the situation. i dont think its right to lump them all as the same thing when they are not.
how long does "heat death" take to come into play? are you talking on a universal scale? and why is there only one kind of energy when i can name a few. such as kinetic energy, light energy, chemical energy, sound energy, electrical energy, mechanical energy, heat energy, elastic energy and gravitational energy. youre right, i dont understand it. i was simply asking someone to clear it up, and youve muddied the waters further.
@jared8455 how long does "heat death" take to come into play? are you talking on a universal scale?
It will occur in any closed/isolated system. The faster interactions occur, and the less efficient they are, will effect the time scale.
A similar example would be a heat exchange engine, like a boiler - when you stop putting energy into the system, the transfer of heat will gradually slow down as the temperature difference between the reservoirs reduces.
The various forms of energy are just that, forms, they are fundementally the same thing, you can turn sound into heat into light etc.. The titles refer to how the energy is stored and/or what it is doing at the time.
I can make a clay vase, clay figure, clay plate, they are all still clay.
i love when he says our universe is running out of energy. unless i am mistaken, energy is never lost, its just transformed or transferred in some way, shape, or form.
@jared8455 Bingo. Energy is not being lost - it is being spread out. But since it is being spread out, and you need a variation of energy for it to be able to do work (on a macroscopic level atleast), you will eventually reach a point where there is so little variation in energy that no work can be done - which is heat death.
@jared8455 It is the reason why you cannot take the energy from the ocean which is the same temperature or lower than that of your ship, to power your ship. Dispite the water in the ocean having vast amounts of thermal energy. It is also the reason why you don't need to look to closely at any perpetual motion machine to says that it is false.
@neverfearchrisishere i dont know man. your kind of using absolutes which in time may be proven completly wrong, which i think will pe proven wrong. youre only adressing heat energy. are you saying that thermal energy is the only type of energy in the universe keeping us moving? as i understand it, and i truly do not really understand, i think heat is more of a by product of the forces of nature that we currently understand.
@jared8455 you don't understand it. There is only one type of energy - what we call Thermal energy is the energy distributed across all the various internal energy states within, say, matter, or more broadly everything. there is no 'heat energy' as such.
Trust me when I say that this stuff is very VERY well studied.
@jared8455 What Entropy tells us is that with all interactions the energy must become more evenly distributed between the energy states. Heat Death is where the energy becomes so evenly distributed that less and less becomes possible.
If you want a practical example of entropy - go try to melt an ice cube, by placing an ice cube on it, ice is at 273.3K so it has more than enough energy to do it - but it is non the less impossible.
I hate these atheists who play games and pretend. It isn't reasonable and reason is what will win out. Play games with a celebrity call in show. Pretend your Justin Bieber, fine, but these guys and gals are trying to do a service by spreading truth and logic. They have limited time.
Time is a construct of existence, not a construct of the universe. The universe started well after much time had already elapsed, how much is completely indeterminable.
Explaining why there isn't nothing is rather easy: in the absence of anything is the potential for there to be something. Potential is always realized in the absence of an inhibitor - of which there were known - so existence "is."
Time started with existence, but the universe may have not. God coming from that is unlikely...
I kind of have it stuck in my head that the universe is probably like a 4D mobius strip; the universe might be eternally expanding back into its own epicenter and at all times everything that has happened and will happen is effectively always happening.
God is a spirit, an immaterial conscious being. All things in the universe consists of matter and/or energy, so if God isn't matter, is energy by definition. Energy is the capacity to do work, is eternal, omnipresent, wasn't created and can't be destroyed, can create matter, was the only thing present before the BB, and the energy required to make the universe must had been powerful. All these match Biblical descriptions of God. Therefore is plausible God exists.
A minute and a half, I was SHOCKED especially with Jeff on this one, they sat there and listened without saying ONE word! That takes some major patience gotta give Jeff and Matt props!
@SqueakerAlpha: That should be said the other way around really, because they only reason why time exists is because the universe exists. But yeah, youre right...
"First thing. 2nd law of thermodynamics says that the universe is running out of energy..." Um....yeah. I woulda stopped him right there. Apparently he's never heard of the 1st law of thermo.
@Ripley747 And that is the law of conservement of energy (im not english so I spelled it wrong probably, but it had to do with the fact that energy cannot be lost?). But you know E=mc² right? Like when you splice uranium atoms a small part of mass gets converted to energy according to that formula. So because energy and mass could be transformed into eachother, that enables the possiblity that the universe runs out of energy right?
@tommyXBOX360 Um...sort of. I'm not entirely sure about this (would LOVE to sit down with a physicist and ask questions). It's my understanding that mass can NOT be turned into energy but rather it's more complicated. We used to think that mass was an intrinsic property of matter. It turns out that it is an intrinsic property of energy. So mass doesn't turn into energy but rather the more mass the more energy and visa versa. Energy IS mass and mass is energy. Both mass AND energy are conserved.
@Ripley747 Well according to my understanding mass and energy are two different forms of the same thing, and can be transformed into eachother. Like what happens at CERN were the protons that go to the sub-atomic particle accelerator almost reach the speed of light and gain more mass because all the energy is transformed into mass. In Nuclear powerplants, the opposite happens. But Im not sure how to perfectly interpret mass and energy though, since im not a physicist (yet).
@tommyXBOX360 But the 2nd law of thermo says that the entropy of the universe always goes up. Entropy is the amount of disorder (as defined by physics in mathematical form) in a system. It says nothing about the amount of energy. His only argument is that the amount of USEABLE energy will run out but the energy is still there which is true.
@Ripley747 Oh well, then I thought Entropy was something different. But both mass and energy are not entirely conserved because of black holes for example. But im not sure if a black hole irreversably change mass and energy into the signularity (spelled wrong?), because of hawkingradiation for example.
@tommyXBOX360 Close. Again, I'm not a physicist. My understanding is it gains energy AND mass in an accelerator. You feed it energy to move faster. You can add as much energy as you want and that energy will make the particle more massive. With fusion, energy is released meaning mass is also released (I'm not sure where it goes). Add energy = add mass and visa versa. Rest assured, energy is conserved. Not 100% sure about mass. In fact, I'm not positive we fully understand "mass."
... mass and energy are devoured into this spectacular place and loose all their properties, mass and energy could "disappear". But the question is: Is this process reversible? I'm not sure what the precise answer is, but because a black hole emits hawking-radiation from its core (which "contains" mass/energy), I would say that the mass and energy are not irreversibly trapped inside the core of the black hole. So I guess mass and energy ARE conserved, but not always constantly remain the same.
@tommyXBOX360 Here's what I know about black holes. When matter/energy goes into a black hole, they don't get destroyed, they just get intensely warped into the center. It's still there, we just can't see it since light can't escape (like eating food...can't see it but it's there in our stomach). Also, as you probably know, they aren't perfectly black but kinda brownish (some energy escapes). Assuming the energy bleeds off and they don't devour more, black holes can die.
@tommyXBOX360 Either way, the 1st law says that energy can't be created or destroyed but it can change form. It's that simple. If energy leaves a system, it doesn't become destroyed, it just goes to the surrounding. It can also change form. Potential energy can turn into kinetic which turns into heat, light, and sound, etc. Look up "energy density" in wiki and go to the section about "energy density of empty space." Also, watch this vid - watch?v=y4D6qY2c0Z8.
@tommyXBOX360 Entropy is not energy. It has units of J/K where energy is in units of J. As for black holes, why isn't energy/mass conserved in a black hole?
@Ripley747 I do not agree with your view on energy and mass, but like you I am not a physicist either, so we both should read some books or articles on this topic I think :P
Mass and energy are not conserved in a black hole, because both loose there properties in the signularity. The absolute centre of a black hole (the signularity) is a time- and dimensionless place with infinite mass. Im not sure, nor are physicist, how to precisely discribe this amazing phenomenon, but since...
@tommyXBOX360 mass, charge and momentum ARE conserved in black holes, from all practicality the properties are 'frozen' into the eventhorison. Due to the proposed hawkin radiation the bh would also conserve entropy. The singularity is believed by many physicists to not actually exist, being a remnant of a theory we already know is not complete in that aspect.
I don't think that's so much as doing his homework for him as it would be to exercise your debating skills while simultaneously getting to know the opponent's strategy by arguing his side.
The problem with this argument is the limitation of our language. Our universe has always existed in the context of time as we understand it now. However if it had some sort of cause then we do not possess the words to describe the state and time period in which that cause may have existed.
Great answers by the hosts, but I wish Jeff and Matt would have taken a stronger stance on Sean's dishonesty. I'm disappointed that he did not end his call with something to the tune of "sorry for lying to you guys and using you as a substitute for figuring things out myself" and used a lameass excuse instead.
How does he expect to win an argument against a professional apologist if he's a liar TOO?
Overall a pretty good video. But I believe the hosts argument could've been much better. Although it is true that the universe had a beginning it can also be true that our universe has a finite ending. Look up multiverse. If you have Netflix watch the history channels 'the universe' series on theories of multiple universes. A multiverse shows how our universe can have a beginning and an end and be perfectly natural. I'm not a physicist though, just some food for thought.
No theological argument. Aristotle's 4 causes for something to exist: material, formal, efficient, final. In regards to the universe material and formal are solved for. Effecient and final are unsolved for. To any atheist: I logically say for something to exist it needs these 4 causes. The universe exist, therefore what was its efficient cause? The reason for it to change? PM me if needed. AGAIN NO THEOLOGY!
@bumfuggler The universe does not exist? Wha wha what?! This is all a dream? I thought you guys were suppose to be the "free thinkers" of the world. Come up with a self perpetual universe and I will be the first to concede.
@johhnycarlos: You heard me right the first time, boyo — since Atheists cannot provide absolute answers to your other two 'requirements', THE UNIVERSE DOES NOT EXIST.
Well I think that you have no evidence of evolution and you are going by faith. But I can tell you that both of my parent know people that have died and came back and if you look a people that either are atheist ,muslim,buddhist,mormons ect have died and and seen hell how come the don't see nothing if there isn't a heaven and a hell
The big bang is not known to have happened it is an assumption based on the assumption that redshift = recesional velocity, this has since been proven wrong by the astronomer Halton Arp who found extremely reshifted quasars which should be near light speed at the edge of the universe, in FRONT of opaque nearby galaxies with lower redshifts & also quasars CONNECTED to galaxys by plasma bridges.
We live in an electric universe where 99% is plasma not dark or black undetectable imaginary objects
"Something always existed, it is the Universe" Not according to some Scientists. Many think that our Universe was created from Nothing. "No use talking about what predated time,(pre Big Bang) Thats a narrow view isnt it? Ignore how our Universe began "You can extrapolate beyond the beginning" Well what are YOU doing in the claim of No Creator??? Typical Atheist semantics. Time stops in a Black Hole so does that mean all other time stops? Learn some Science Guys. There was something before time
No, no one says that the universe came from "nothing". At least no one I know. Please point me to a single scientific paper in which such a thing is stated. Time doesn't stop in a black hole, it just appears to do so for an outside observer. An inside observer will notice no change. The claim is just that applying an attribute like "before" to a period without time makes little sense.
No we don't *know* "where" the universe came from. We WANT to know, but unlike *some* people we don't just make shit up if we can't think of a good explanation.
You aren't making any sense - why would I assert that no god exists? There is no coherent definition of god that I could apply this to, and there is no conceivable gain from such an assertion. And that's still leaving aside the issue that proving universal nonexistence isn't possible under normal circumstances. What I do positively assert is that the christian god doesn't exist. This really only requires a bible for proof. I can not prove the nonexistence of gods in general though.
@Texmurphy51 You are wrong. Even the hosts of the show don't claim to KNOW there's no god. However, that's what they believe. Big difference. Agnosticism and gnosticism are related to knowledge, and theism and atheism are related to beliefs. You can be an agnostic atheist, which is what every host on this show, as well as the majority of the fanbase, is. And all that means is that we don't believe in god, but we don't claim to know to an absolute certainty that that's the case.
If someone doesn't have a name, doesn't have a birth certificate, doesn't have a body, doesn't have a mind...doesn't exist.
if god is spaceless, timeless, inmaterial...guess what? doesn't exist.
ChaoticRupture 5 days ago 2
Frank Turek is nothing like Richard Dawkins. They both have brains but there the similarity ends. Richard Dawkins actually knows how to use his brain.
Kailoa36 2 weeks ago in playlist More videos from village1diot
Its a bad logic to say the only time started with universe. Its extremely short sighted and lazy to think this way even though you might misinterpret the theory that science provides about Big Bang. If you claim this you must have said that everything that exists as reality is 13,6 billion years old when it had infinity behind it to get started. Monkey brains cannot rationalize this because we dont have true concept of infinity nor can our brain comprehend it. Infinity doesnt have alfa or omega.
StardustSpaceMonkey 3 weeks ago
@StardustSpaceMonkey You have no Idea how much we can comprehend, dude.
fadechicobuarque1989 2 weeks ago
@StardustSpaceMonkey If the universe encompasses everything, then time did start with the Universe.
However did the Universe start with the Big Bang? No it changed the state of which it existed as from a singularity to a transitional form which it exists as today.
Your arguement is both pointless and without basis.
gotsda 1 week ago
@gotsda You think somehow all the pieces just managed to got here just the way they are in our known universe? Duh, what were the odds of that happening.. No I dont like finities because only finite thing have alfa and omega, like we could say rain starts and stops, human comes to life and dies, nothing really stops, the energy in its form just changes. Only we have concept of alfa and omega and limited reality. But you choose to make your assumptions on what ever theory of gaps.
StardustSpaceMonkey 1 week ago
@StardustSpaceMonkey
No Im saying everything has always existed, just not in the same form.
We can try to date the big bang (NOT the start of the universe) but to predate the Universe (not the big bang) is to predate the existance of anything and everything, including time.
Nothing came into existance it just was, and then changed form, as you say "energy in its form just changes" therefore putting a starting point on time before the universe is illogical.
gotsda 1 week ago
@gotsda As I stated there is no real alfa and omega but for us on things that we have meaning. I agree that everything has always existed in a form or another. We just cant see too far like what has been before our big bang, what kind of other universes there might be etc.. but I think our universe had an infinite time come to existence before and this moment is as meaningless as any other point of "time". Like you said only forms change. Our universe is only one form of the source.
StardustSpaceMonkey 1 week ago
@StardustSpaceMonkey So in essence we... agree?
gotsda 1 week ago
@gotsda Seems so..
StardustSpaceMonkey 1 week ago
@StardustSpaceMonkey I think this may be a youtube first.
gotsda 1 week ago
@gotsda nice, dudes! Good example. But... The universe did not have a infinite time before the bigbang because time itself did not start before the bigbang. So... you agree - and that is cool - but you did not get all facts straigth. I am feeling kind of bad to say it, but the three of us agree that truth is the best police, hum? :-)
fadechicobuarque1989 1 week ago
@fadechicobuarque1989 What is it that isn't true exactly? Time didn't start with the Big Bang because the universe didn't start with it.
How is that wrong?
gotsda 1 week ago
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@gotsda Those two things: the universe started to exist (that is an act that demands time) when time came to exist - both during the bigbang. Time is demonstrably not a constant.
fadechicobuarque1989 1 week ago
Matt can really be a douche...just saying.
JimmyCrlc 3 weeks ago
What I find hard is what the hell caused the universe? Where did it come from?
moroney1 1 month ago
@moroney1 "what the hell caused the universe?"
This is an example of "Begging the question" since it assumes that a cause is required.
When it comes to cosmology and quantum physics we need to discard "common sense" notions of cause and effect. In the quantum world, things appear to happen at random with no cause being visible (radioactive decay, virtual particles).
We should accept the possibility that the universe maybe didn't have a cause and maybe didn't need a cause.
mandolinic 1 month ago
@mandolinic I cant get my head around that in the slightest lol, I mean tbh im a non theist, but if it is possible that the Universe did not need a cause then it is possible there is a God, bith are unbeleivable
moroney1 1 month ago
His very first claim is absolutely wrong. The first argument he made was about the second law of thermodynamics. He greatly mischaracterizes this law by implying that all energy in the universe is gradually dissapating.
This is tremendously untrue. Newton's second law is one of the most steadfast laws of physics ever postulated. The universe isn't running out of energy. It just happens to be redshifting away or breaking down into very inert states, in the case of dying stars.
jsnake01 1 month ago
@jsnake01 If you replace the word "energy" with "useful energy", it's more or less accurate.
YaleBreaker 1 month ago
@YaleBreaker Thank you, that's right. I was unclear when I said energy is breaking down. I only meant it is becoming more entropic and "expended" in the traditional suns. Stars become inert, cold bodies... Radiation, heat, and light are all finite and eventually divde down to equally energetic but less concentrated or useful forms.
jsnake01 1 month ago
@jsnake01 When creationists bring up the Second Law and point to the "order" in stars and galaxies, it raises the interesting point that something which appears to have order - like a galaxy - is in fact a mechanism of decay. On the one hand it's a pretty shape, on the other it's a giant fire burning itself out. It's that it's counter-intuitive to think of stellar formation as an act of "decay" because of the word's informal connotations relating to "structure".
YaleBreaker 1 month ago
I fucking knew it! No theist so far was so smart and articulated!
fadechicobuarque1989 1 month ago 13
@fadechicobuarque1989 LOL
ryan6627 1 month ago
I should really study up on that theory of relativity and the theory of the big bang. I've come up with the opinion that existence is, and always has been, everlasting, so I really find it hard to believe there was ever a starting point of existence, time, and space. I do find it interesting that the universe is possibly expanding, which suggests a focal point that could have encompassed whatever matter was available in existence before the BB even happened. Only opinion at this point. =(
NairuOnLife 1 month ago
@NairuOnLife "the universe is possibly expanding"
There's no "possibly" about it. It's been known for certain since the 1920s that the universe really is expanding, and furthermore it has been more recently discovered that the rate of expansion is increasing. No one knows why it's increasing so for now cosmologists assume there's a previously unknown force called "Dark Energy" at work. No one knows what Dark Energy is...
mandolinic 1 month ago
the second law of TD is only applicable to a closed system we dont know if the universe is closed system and the net energy of the universe is zero because of dark matter
tiny515515 1 month ago
Yes I believe Zelda came to this earth at one point and time... -alienware222
i couldn't agree more.
chesster423 1 month ago
Brooke Degumbia
FailARN100 1 month ago
Every time I think I have an eureka moment, I write down my thoughts and deconstruct them later to avoid making an ass of myself.
You try it at home folks!
Your computers have nice applications that handle text. Write down your argument and look at it really hard.
Ebvardh 2 months ago
Hey, there were something before time. A land. Yeah, there were a whole land before time, and it was created in 1988 and had 12 direct-to-video sequels. And this land were created by a trinity called the Bluth, the Lucas and the holy Spielberg.
LoverofLiszt 2 months ago
What a stupid caller!
hellieweird123 2 months ago
god is Spaceless, Timeless, Intelligent, Immaterial therefore does not exist.
chesster423 2 months ago 40
@chesster423 Where's your evidence that God doesn't exist?
alienware222 2 months ago
@alienware222
The burden of proof is not on the side of the non-believer. It should be on the believer. How can you prove something that isn't observable, measurable, experimental?
I have an invisible friend in my room, only me can see her, now prove me wrong...
Of courses you can't. I should present my evidence of her existence first before you can disprove my claims.
chesster423 2 months ago
@chesster423 You never answered my question, How do you know for a fact that God doesn't exist? I know God exists because I can feel his presence all the time. And he's healed just about everyone in my family my Grandma who is 93 years old was on her death bed with pneumonia, and God said it wasn't her time and the next day she didn't remember what happened when she was dying and she is perfectly fine now.
alienware222 2 months ago
@alienware222 why didnt he save your great granma or your other family memebers that will die? why god kill de ickle babies dem and mek folk disabled. he a mean fucker. and you a mean fucker for worhsip a mean god
GBJ83 2 months ago
@GBJ83 Can you speak english please, I didn't quite understand what your trying to say.
alienware222 2 months ago
@GBJ83 I'll answer the first part, because my great grandma did all that God called her to do on this earth, and it was God's time for her to come with him.
alienware222 2 months ago
@alienware222 why does your god kill babies? try and give me a funny answer about how babies go straight to heaven, why dont you kill babies? whatever you do is gods will so stop being selfish and sacrifice yourself to "hell" to liberate babies to heaven. you basically can justify anything you sick baby killing paedo.
why does your god make people disabled? to test them? go and break your legs.
your god is a mean fuck and you and your cult army are mean fucks for worshipping it.
GBJ83 1 month ago
@alienware222 so you are saying god kills us humans once we have done all he has made us do on earth? fact 1. half a day old and younger babies get killed by your god. fact 2. your great gran (decades older than baby)was taken by your lord too.
conclusion(using alienware222 logic) = granma took 70 odd years to accomplish what a little baby did (in gods eyes). gran was selfish or at least inefficient for living so long when she could have done what he wanted in less than a day.
GBJ83 1 month ago
@GBJ83 He doesn't kill us because he feels like it, when it's our time to come home to him he will take us up in the clouds with him. And about your statement about disabled people, God doesn't disable people or kill babies Satan does. John 10:10 says: The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly. By that verse right there, Is destroying disabling? Is killing babies what Satan does?
alienware222 1 month ago
@alienware222 ohh thanks for helping me out here. i never knew it was satan all along. makes sense.
but that means that A) your god must be impotent if he cant deal with satan, or B) your god must be evil if he can deal with satan but just chooses to ignore him and let us suffer.
GBJ83 1 month ago
@alienware222 conclusion 2. (according to my logic) = god doesnt exist, he doesnt call anyone, he doesnt kill anyone because there is no such fat controller. your gran was an asset to you family and a beacon of light showing that clean living and grespect for fellow beings can give one a long decent fulfilling life. god didnt make your gran good, she chose to be good. (assuming she was good). god didnt kill her, she died of old age. this shit happens a lot. disease kills too.
GBJ83 1 month ago
@GBJ83 Who made disease?
alienware222 1 month ago
@alienware222 accorrding to you, your god. according to normal people, its due to the effects of our environment and us not adapting quick enough to cope with it.
GBJ83 1 month ago
@alienware222
May I know how old you are? you seem like a kid. How did I know that God doesn't exist? because I don't know, and you don't know 100% for sure. Well, okay, your mother has been healed by God that day, did you realize that on that day 25,000 of children are dying in Africa because of starvation? you mean that on that day, your God is focusing on your grandma's health while ignoring billions of prayers around the world asking for help? Think before you believe.
chesster423 2 months ago
@chesster423 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences,[b] and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Matthew 24:3-8
alienware222 2 months ago
@alienware222
dude, I'll tell you this. You don't believe in a God. You believe in a personal God, an imaginary being who lives to comfort you in times of desperation. Going back in your grandma's miracle, did you realize on that exact day and exact time, billions of people around the world died of disease, gang raped, murdered, massacred, plane crash, car accident, struck by lightning, died in starvation, and your God, I mean personal God, is in your grandma's skirt healing her.
chesster423 2 months ago
@chesster423 You realize that Lucifer(Satan) made everything that you just said? And people blame it on God saying it's his fault, when it's really Satan's.
alienware222 2 months ago
@alienware222
you are really a kid. Bye.
chesster423 2 months ago
@chesster423 If you classify 17 as a kid then sure, I'm a kid.
alienware222 2 months ago
@alienware222 But Satan is a product of God right?
SSjLuigi1 2 months ago
@SSjLuigi1 He was one of God's angels and he thought he could over throw God with the limited power that God gave him, God threw him out of heaven into earth and now Satan does evil things in this world such as cancer, aids, tsunamis, tornadoes, earthquakes. etc
alienware222 2 months ago
@alienware222 Yeah so God is technically responsible for all that the devil does too, after all he is one of his creations. Why not jut get rid of him? Also cancer, aids, tsunamis, tornadoes and earthquakes are nothing supernatural, it can all be explained.
SSjLuigi1 2 months ago
@SSjLuigi1 If you seek God with all your heart I believe with all my heart you will find him, But you have to seek him with all your heart. God loves you all unconditionally and he cares about each and everyone of you. Jesus loves you!
alienware222 1 month ago
@alienware222
I dont see it to be a loving being, if there is punishment for me, if i do not seek this being out.
Yet this being makes no effort to contact me, warn me, show me that any of the threats are more than imaginary.
So no, your God cant be all loving, or then im more loving than this God you worship is.
Since if this being WAS real, this being would not be hiding, that is not something a loving being would do, if there was such a punishment at stake.
Turha101 1 month ago
@Turha101 He does talk to you, through his word and through his spirit, and he has warned you in Matthew 24:3.
alienware222 1 month ago
@alienware222
Really? I see the bible to be nothing more than a few thousand years old book, and people CLAIM that its some gods word, but cant demonstrate it, just like all the other religions out there.
Also i would not call it a warning, its more like a empty threat, just like the threat coming from Santa claus.
Why do i call it empty? Since i have no reason to take it seriously.
Why do i call it a threat? Since its very much, do this or else i will do bad things to you
Turha101 1 month ago
@alienware222 Your cherry picking what you want out of your religion, your ignoring all the horrible acts that happen as a result of Gods demand. What is it about the heart that makes you believe there is a God? Is it because because your brain is already used to rationalize thoughts and to apply logic to your everyday life? Its not like if you say I have no gas in my car but i believe with all my heart that i will make it to my destination, doesn't work that way right?
SSjLuigi1 1 month ago
@SSjLuigi1 There will be a day when God does get rid of him for all eternity, but us as Christians are to share God's word with others, so no one is gotten rid of when he comes back, instead there is a mansion waiting for you in heaven, just for doing his decrees.
Problem 1: People don't want to believe in God, simply because they can't see him or don't have any evidence.
Problem 2: God doesn't do evil things, Satan does unbelievers are deceived by Satan who has made them think it's God's fault.
alienware222 1 month ago
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@alienware222
''Problem 1: People don't want to believe in God, simply because they can't see him or don't have any evidence.''
It has nothing with what we want to believe, nor that we cant see this being.
All it has to do with is reasnoning, evidence, and logic, which theist have been unable to provide.
Turha101 1 month ago
@alienware222
''Problem 2: God doesn't do evil things, Satan does unbelievers are deceived by Satan who has made them think it's God's fault.''
If your god existed, would be atleast partly responsible for all the disasters / problems.
Let me ask you a simple question
If i saw a kid playing on a road, and i saw a truck coming. And because i did not warn the kid, the truck hit this kiddo, and he got heavily injured
Would i be partly responsible for this disaster?
yes / no?
Turha101 1 month ago
@Turha101 Of course you would be. How exactly does this relate to what I said?
alienware222 1 month ago
@alienware222
Im glad you said that.
I would be partly responsible since i would have the power to stop that accident from happening.
Now lets take a look at the God you believe in.
He is supposed to be, all powerful, all knowing etc.
So he would know when accidents like this would happen, especially natural disasters like tsunamis.
He would have the power to stop it.
Yet accidents, natural disasters, etch happens, all the time, why do you think that is?
Turha101 1 month ago
@alienware222 WOW.. that is ridiculous. IF what you are saying is true about your God, then he is not all powerful and is not allowing. If God knew that there would be nonbelievers due to lack of evidence, then why wouldn't he allow science to be able to provide evidence for his existence? Is he playing some sort of trick because he allowed the existence of a realm of endless torture for nonbelievers right? Plus God does do evil things, genocide, slavery, floods, torture, etc.
SSjLuigi1 1 month ago
@SSjLuigi1
he is superstitious and believes fantasy over reality, ignore him.
chesster423 2 months ago
@chesster423 lol thanks for the heads up but i just wanna see what he says
SSjLuigi1 2 months ago
@chesster423 Yes I believe Zelda came to this earth at one point and time... No I don't that's a fantasy, the evidence and proof of God lies all around us. People just don't see it because they haven't found God.
alienware222 1 month ago
@SSjLuigi1 product?
alienware222 1 month ago
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alienware222 1 month ago
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@alienware222 Your saying Satan is God's toy, why did you say product and not creation. Satan was created by God.
alienware222 1 month ago
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@alienware222
dude, I'll tell you this. You don't believe in a God. You believe in a personal God, an imaginary being who lives to comfort you in times of desperation. Going back in your grandma's miracle, did you realize on that exact day and exact time, billions of people around the world died of disease, gang raped, murdered, massacred, plane crash, car accident, struck by lightning, died in starvation, and your God, I mean personal God, is in your grandma's skirt healing her.
chesster423 2 months ago
@chesster423 Exactly, "And what fits that description?" "..." "Nothing."
M3t4lManiac 1 month ago
0:08 John Petrucci co-hosted in 1997!
verybadheadache 2 months ago
Talking about something 'before' the big bang is a bit like talking about walking to the north pole, and once you are there, walking a couple of miles further north.
keyfax123 2 months ago
who put fsm there? no atheist worships fsm
doombybbr 2 months ago
@doombybbr
You do realize that it is a joke right?
ArsonistInUrFirewall 2 months ago
@ArsonistInUrFirewall i just think most christians don't realize that it is....
doombybbr 2 months ago
Does mathematics exist ?
Does truth exist ?
Do the laws of physics exist ?
bris1tol 2 months ago
Where did the laws of physics come from then ?
bris1tol 2 months ago
@bris1tol Law of physics came from God, when he created the entire universe from start to finish.
alienware222 1 month ago
WHEN CAN I CALL IN. Stories to tell/question about the chemical release happening when "slain by the spirit'
09878909890 2 months ago
time is simply a concept, like numbers.
bethoughless 2 months ago
@bethoughless Totally agree. Colours are also a concept.
Uberlaser 2 months ago
@bradkey98765 What you missed is the fact that time is a measurement of change nothing can change as a singularity so time does not exist at the point of a singularity that's why time is considered a dimension rather than a governing law. So basically time basically happens again, things might not be the same, although the life span of the universe might be a fixed digit depending on how the energy changes each time.
KuamaAGW 2 months ago
Atheist here, I am against the statement "There cannot be time “before” the big bang".
From what I know "The big crunch" is still viewed as a legitimate possibility for the end of a universe, our best “guess” is that such an event would end in a singularity. It is then a possibility for this singularity to be the cause of a “big bang” event.
If it is possible that the big bang preceded a "big crunch" then "There cannot be time before the big bang." is a false statement.
bradkey98765 2 months ago
The "universe beginning" is different from "the matter and energy of the universe at one point did not exist"
bgiv2010 2 months ago
everything burns out to nothing? if you burn something to a crisp there is still something there...
look at that on a universal scale, when all that burnt out shit gets compressed together at immense pressure , if it gets compressed together after it is all burnt out to an amazingly small point is space what happens to it in the quantum level? answer being NO ONE KNOWS. i don't know and no one else knows. deal with it until we do know.
LogicalStatements1 2 months ago 8
@LogicalStatements1 "everything burns out to nothing?"
Given enough time (and we're talking huge numbers) all particles will eventually decay. At the end of the universe, all matter will decay into energy, and that energy will be spread out in the vastness of the ever expanding universe. The energy density of the universe will be effectively zero.
It will probably be like Phoenix with all the excitement removed.
mandolinic 1 month ago
i knew something was up when he stated "my evidence is not based on faith or personal experience"
youbetzler 3 months ago
energy can't "run out" it's "useful energy" that's running out. important difference.
MrLtPink 3 months ago
Pink Floyd freaking rocks
xOnimpulsex 3 months ago
The reason why people have a very difficult time understanding how their could not be a "before"... before time started, is because it seems most people view time as linear, and in our minds, when we think of time, we think of a beginning and an end. Even the word "beginning" is misleading because there was no beginning of time. Time is a dimension that has always existed. Language is what makes the topic so complicated, not the understanding of the dimension of time.
itcanbecheezcaketime 3 months ago
Who's the comedian at the end of the show?
EinsteinxtremeRoblox 3 months ago
@EinsteinxtremeRoblox
George Carlin! The motherfuckin' MAN!
itcanbecheezcaketime 3 months ago
@itcanbecheezcaketime Thank you! I was guessing him, but I thought the voice was a little too deep.
EinsteinxtremeRoblox 3 months ago
These guys need to learn what is known. We can only see so far back in time...limited by the speed of light. At a certain point in history all known physics breaks down and there is no way of knowing what existed before the expansion.
There is no evidence that there was nothing. We simply can not understand what was and may never.
Twicebakedtaters 3 months ago
the one thing they have in common, which i think youre trying to put across, is that the forms are all energy. that being said, yes they are fundamentally the same thing if you look at it like that. when energy is transformed or transferred, the total ammount remains the same. there is no loss. what you were saying is we will eventually have heat death in the universe. at least i think thats what you were saying. i disagree.
jared8455 3 months ago
are you saying that the universe is a closed and isolated system? that was my initial question that started this conversation. are you saying that eventually we will experience heat death on a universal scale? and how is gravitational energy the same as thermal energy? i agree to disagree with you. the types of energy are not all the same, but they can be transformed and changed depending on the situation. i dont think its right to lump them all as the same thing when they are not.
jared8455 3 months ago
how long does "heat death" take to come into play? are you talking on a universal scale? and why is there only one kind of energy when i can name a few. such as kinetic energy, light energy, chemical energy, sound energy, electrical energy, mechanical energy, heat energy, elastic energy and gravitational energy. youre right, i dont understand it. i was simply asking someone to clear it up, and youve muddied the waters further.
jared8455 3 months ago
@jared8455 how long does "heat death" take to come into play? are you talking on a universal scale?
It will occur in any closed/isolated system. The faster interactions occur, and the less efficient they are, will effect the time scale.
A similar example would be a heat exchange engine, like a boiler - when you stop putting energy into the system, the transfer of heat will gradually slow down as the temperature difference between the reservoirs reduces.
neverfearchrisishere 3 months ago
The various forms of energy are just that, forms, they are fundementally the same thing, you can turn sound into heat into light etc.. The titles refer to how the energy is stored and/or what it is doing at the time.
I can make a clay vase, clay figure, clay plate, they are all still clay.
neverfearchrisishere 3 months ago
i love when he says our universe is running out of energy. unless i am mistaken, energy is never lost, its just transformed or transferred in some way, shape, or form.
i might be wrong. someone correct me.
jared8455 3 months ago
@jared8455 Bingo. Energy is not being lost - it is being spread out. But since it is being spread out, and you need a variation of energy for it to be able to do work (on a macroscopic level atleast), you will eventually reach a point where there is so little variation in energy that no work can be done - which is heat death.
neverfearchrisishere 3 months ago
@jared8455 It is the reason why you cannot take the energy from the ocean which is the same temperature or lower than that of your ship, to power your ship. Dispite the water in the ocean having vast amounts of thermal energy. It is also the reason why you don't need to look to closely at any perpetual motion machine to says that it is false.
This is called entropy.
neverfearchrisishere 3 months ago
@neverfearchrisishere i dont know man. your kind of using absolutes which in time may be proven completly wrong, which i think will pe proven wrong. youre only adressing heat energy. are you saying that thermal energy is the only type of energy in the universe keeping us moving? as i understand it, and i truly do not really understand, i think heat is more of a by product of the forces of nature that we currently understand.
jared8455 3 months ago
@jared8455 you don't understand it. There is only one type of energy - what we call Thermal energy is the energy distributed across all the various internal energy states within, say, matter, or more broadly everything. there is no 'heat energy' as such.
Trust me when I say that this stuff is very VERY well studied.
neverfearchrisishere 3 months ago
@jared8455 What Entropy tells us is that with all interactions the energy must become more evenly distributed between the energy states. Heat Death is where the energy becomes so evenly distributed that less and less becomes possible.
If you want a practical example of entropy - go try to melt an ice cube, by placing an ice cube on it, ice is at 273.3K so it has more than enough energy to do it - but it is non the less impossible.
neverfearchrisishere 3 months ago
@neverfearchrisishere i dont doubt its all well studied, but dont be ignorant and try to make me look stupid for asking questions.
jared8455 3 months ago
@jared8455 ... how is answering your questions trying to make you look stupid?!??
neverfearchrisishere 3 months ago
why would you say what you say.. and tell someone what you said that believes the same as you to be careful because you might be wrong..??
itsmemiiiiike 3 months ago
@itsmemiiiiike Key words : "Technical Details". Look 'em up.
hardinmichael1981 3 months ago
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I hate these atheists who play games and pretend. It isn't reasonable and reason is what will win out. Play games with a celebrity call in show. Pretend your Justin Bieber, fine, but these guys and gals are trying to do a service by spreading truth and logic. They have limited time.
shabido1 3 months ago
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shabido1 3 months ago
Time is a construct of existence, not a construct of the universe. The universe started well after much time had already elapsed, how much is completely indeterminable.
Explaining why there isn't nothing is rather easy: in the absence of anything is the potential for there to be something. Potential is always realized in the absence of an inhibitor - of which there were known - so existence "is."
Time started with existence, but the universe may have not. God coming from that is unlikely...
looncraz 3 months ago
I kind of have it stuck in my head that the universe is probably like a 4D mobius strip; the universe might be eternally expanding back into its own epicenter and at all times everything that has happened and will happen is effectively always happening.
aphoxema 4 months ago
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God is a spirit, an immaterial conscious being. All things in the universe consists of matter and/or energy, so if God isn't matter, is energy by definition. Energy is the capacity to do work, is eternal, omnipresent, wasn't created and can't be destroyed, can create matter, was the only thing present before the BB, and the energy required to make the universe must had been powerful. All these match Biblical descriptions of God. Therefore is plausible God exists.
dejesusluisx 4 months ago
A minute and a half, I was SHOCKED especially with Jeff on this one, they sat there and listened without saying ONE word! That takes some major patience gotta give Jeff and Matt props!
VeritasLuxMea100 4 months ago
@VeritasLuxMea100 These men have the patience of saints.
TheGeneralCritic 4 months ago 22
@TheGeneralCritic And i m surprised no christian has used that as evidence of a miracle yet.
omnissience 2 months ago
The universe has existed as long as time has .
SqueakerAlpha 4 months ago
@SqueakerAlpha: That should be said the other way around really, because they only reason why time exists is because the universe exists. But yeah, youre right...
ashleelmb 3 months ago
The easter-bunny didn't die on the cross to have all you Atheists go around not believing in him!
somethingdiffereable 4 months ago
"First thing. 2nd law of thermodynamics says that the universe is running out of energy..." Um....yeah. I woulda stopped him right there. Apparently he's never heard of the 1st law of thermo.
Ripley747 4 months ago
@Ripley747 And that is the law of conservement of energy (im not english so I spelled it wrong probably, but it had to do with the fact that energy cannot be lost?). But you know E=mc² right? Like when you splice uranium atoms a small part of mass gets converted to energy according to that formula. So because energy and mass could be transformed into eachother, that enables the possiblity that the universe runs out of energy right?
tommyXBOX360 4 months ago
@tommyXBOX360 Um...sort of. I'm not entirely sure about this (would LOVE to sit down with a physicist and ask questions). It's my understanding that mass can NOT be turned into energy but rather it's more complicated. We used to think that mass was an intrinsic property of matter. It turns out that it is an intrinsic property of energy. So mass doesn't turn into energy but rather the more mass the more energy and visa versa. Energy IS mass and mass is energy. Both mass AND energy are conserved.
Ripley747 4 months ago
@Ripley747 Well according to my understanding mass and energy are two different forms of the same thing, and can be transformed into eachother. Like what happens at CERN were the protons that go to the sub-atomic particle accelerator almost reach the speed of light and gain more mass because all the energy is transformed into mass. In Nuclear powerplants, the opposite happens. But Im not sure how to perfectly interpret mass and energy though, since im not a physicist (yet).
tommyXBOX360 4 months ago
@tommyXBOX360 But the 2nd law of thermo says that the entropy of the universe always goes up. Entropy is the amount of disorder (as defined by physics in mathematical form) in a system. It says nothing about the amount of energy. His only argument is that the amount of USEABLE energy will run out but the energy is still there which is true.
Ripley747 4 months ago
@Ripley747 Oh well, then I thought Entropy was something different. But both mass and energy are not entirely conserved because of black holes for example. But im not sure if a black hole irreversably change mass and energy into the signularity (spelled wrong?), because of hawkingradiation for example.
tommyXBOX360 4 months ago
@tommyXBOX360 Close. Again, I'm not a physicist. My understanding is it gains energy AND mass in an accelerator. You feed it energy to move faster. You can add as much energy as you want and that energy will make the particle more massive. With fusion, energy is released meaning mass is also released (I'm not sure where it goes). Add energy = add mass and visa versa. Rest assured, energy is conserved. Not 100% sure about mass. In fact, I'm not positive we fully understand "mass."
Ripley747 4 months ago
... mass and energy are devoured into this spectacular place and loose all their properties, mass and energy could "disappear". But the question is: Is this process reversible? I'm not sure what the precise answer is, but because a black hole emits hawking-radiation from its core (which "contains" mass/energy), I would say that the mass and energy are not irreversibly trapped inside the core of the black hole. So I guess mass and energy ARE conserved, but not always constantly remain the same.
tommyXBOX360 4 months ago
@tommyXBOX360 Here's what I know about black holes. When matter/energy goes into a black hole, they don't get destroyed, they just get intensely warped into the center. It's still there, we just can't see it since light can't escape (like eating food...can't see it but it's there in our stomach). Also, as you probably know, they aren't perfectly black but kinda brownish (some energy escapes). Assuming the energy bleeds off and they don't devour more, black holes can die.
Ripley747 4 months ago
@tommyXBOX360 Either way, the 1st law says that energy can't be created or destroyed but it can change form. It's that simple. If energy leaves a system, it doesn't become destroyed, it just goes to the surrounding. It can also change form. Potential energy can turn into kinetic which turns into heat, light, and sound, etc. Look up "energy density" in wiki and go to the section about "energy density of empty space." Also, watch this vid - watch?v=y4D6qY2c0Z8.
Ripley747 4 months ago
@Ripley747 Well I totally have to agree on this part. That brownish energy that escapes is the hawking-radiation where I was talking about, btw.
tommyXBOX360 4 months ago
@tommyXBOX360 Entropy is not energy. It has units of J/K where energy is in units of J. As for black holes, why isn't energy/mass conserved in a black hole?
Ripley747 4 months ago
@Ripley747 I do not agree with your view on energy and mass, but like you I am not a physicist either, so we both should read some books or articles on this topic I think :P
Mass and energy are not conserved in a black hole, because both loose there properties in the signularity. The absolute centre of a black hole (the signularity) is a time- and dimensionless place with infinite mass. Im not sure, nor are physicist, how to precisely discribe this amazing phenomenon, but since...
tommyXBOX360 4 months ago
@tommyXBOX360 mass, charge and momentum ARE conserved in black holes, from all practicality the properties are 'frozen' into the eventhorison. Due to the proposed hawkin radiation the bh would also conserve entropy. The singularity is believed by many physicists to not actually exist, being a remnant of a theory we already know is not complete in that aspect.
MagnusNyborg 4 months ago
@MagnusNyborg Okay thank you for explaining ;)
tommyXBOX360 4 months ago
I don't think that's so much as doing his homework for him as it would be to exercise your debating skills while simultaneously getting to know the opponent's strategy by arguing his side.
kjohnsen045 4 months ago
Another very confused puppy!
MrApostleLee 4 months ago
The problem with this argument is the limitation of our language. Our universe has always existed in the context of time as we understand it now. However if it had some sort of cause then we do not possess the words to describe the state and time period in which that cause may have existed.
Pinage 4 months ago
The universe has not always existed in it's current form
TheHeineken1990 5 months ago
Great answers by the hosts, but I wish Jeff and Matt would have taken a stronger stance on Sean's dishonesty. I'm disappointed that he did not end his call with something to the tune of "sorry for lying to you guys and using you as a substitute for figuring things out myself" and used a lameass excuse instead.
How does he expect to win an argument against a professional apologist if he's a liar TOO?
bumfuggler 5 months ago
Overall a pretty good video. But I believe the hosts argument could've been much better. Although it is true that the universe had a beginning it can also be true that our universe has a finite ending. Look up multiverse. If you have Netflix watch the history channels 'the universe' series on theories of multiple universes. A multiverse shows how our universe can have a beginning and an end and be perfectly natural. I'm not a physicist though, just some food for thought.
rifleattheplayground 5 months ago
No theological argument. Aristotle's 4 causes for something to exist: material, formal, efficient, final. In regards to the universe material and formal are solved for. Effecient and final are unsolved for. To any atheist: I logically say for something to exist it needs these 4 causes. The universe exist, therefore what was its efficient cause? The reason for it to change? PM me if needed. AGAIN NO THEOLOGY!
johhnycarlos 5 months ago
@johhnycarlos It's simple, actually. Atheists cannot answer your two 'requirements', therefore the universe does not exist.
Still makes more sense than "goddidit!". No theology required.
bumfuggler 5 months ago
@bumfuggler The universe does not exist? Wha wha what?! This is all a dream? I thought you guys were suppose to be the "free thinkers" of the world. Come up with a self perpetual universe and I will be the first to concede.
johhnycarlos 5 months ago
@johhnycarlos: You heard me right the first time, boyo — since Atheists cannot provide absolute answers to your other two 'requirements', THE UNIVERSE DOES NOT EXIST.
Happy now?
bumfuggler 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Well I think that you have no evidence of evolution and you are going by faith. But I can tell you that both of my parent know people that have died and came back and if you look a people that either are atheist ,muslim,buddhist,mormons ect have died and and seen hell how come the don't see nothing if there isn't a heaven and a hell
ada2step 5 months ago
Frank Turek is , perhaps, the only apologist that is more dishonest than William Lane Craig
ThieleM 5 months ago 22
The big bang is not known to have happened it is an assumption based on the assumption that redshift = recesional velocity, this has since been proven wrong by the astronomer Halton Arp who found extremely reshifted quasars which should be near light speed at the edge of the universe, in FRONT of opaque nearby galaxies with lower redshifts & also quasars CONNECTED to galaxys by plasma bridges.
We live in an electric universe where 99% is plasma not dark or black undetectable imaginary objects
rubberdown1969 5 months ago
Know-it-all laymen with made-up minds, just plain funny.
pompousprick 6 months ago
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pompousprick 6 months ago
And then God created Saturn... And he loved it so much he put a ring on it.
Rasputin63xxx 6 months ago
Texmurphy51 6 months ago
@Texmurphy51
No, no one says that the universe came from "nothing". At least no one I know. Please point me to a single scientific paper in which such a thing is stated. Time doesn't stop in a black hole, it just appears to do so for an outside observer. An inside observer will notice no change. The claim is just that applying an attribute like "before" to a period without time makes little sense.
narutofan9999 6 months ago
@narutofan9999 "no one says that the universe came from "nothing"
If that is true than how can these people say what came before our Universe does not matter?
The reason you say "before" makes little sense is because you dont want to know what happend.
Fact is the Universe came into existence, Somehow. To claim it was not Created,(atheism) is a Belief.
just like Theism.
BTW, Atheists Phsicist Lawrence Krauss has a video saying the Universe came from Nothing.
Texmurphy51 6 months ago
@Texmurphy51
No we don't *know* "where" the universe came from. We WANT to know, but unlike *some* people we don't just make shit up if we can't think of a good explanation.
narutofan9999 6 months ago
@narutofan9999 "we don't just make shit up"
When you dont KNOW, yet claim to know what it is NOT then your making shit up.
The problem I have is your spreading a Belief System that is non Scientific.
What I I claimed Dark Matter or ETs did not exists simply because of "lack of Evidence"
You Believe there is No God but disguise it as a non Belief
Belief In No God with no proof,(your admission) is a Religion.
Texmurphy51 6 months ago
@Texmurphy51
You aren't making any sense - why would I assert that no god exists? There is no coherent definition of god that I could apply this to, and there is no conceivable gain from such an assertion. And that's still leaving aside the issue that proving universal nonexistence isn't possible under normal circumstances. What I do positively assert is that the christian god doesn't exist. This really only requires a bible for proof. I can not prove the nonexistence of gods in general though.
narutofan9999 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@narutofan9999 "why would I assert that no god exists?"
Ask any Atheist & they will tell you No God exists. They do not say it only applies to man made gods.
You may be the exception but in general all Atheists I chat to Believe in No God.
Those who allow the possibility are Agnostic, not Atheist by definition.
Here is the question.
Do you Believe the Universe was Created or came into existence on its own?
Texmurphy51 6 months ago
@Texmurphy51 You are wrong. Even the hosts of the show don't claim to KNOW there's no god. However, that's what they believe. Big difference. Agnosticism and gnosticism are related to knowledge, and theism and atheism are related to beliefs. You can be an agnostic atheist, which is what every host on this show, as well as the majority of the fanbase, is. And all that means is that we don't believe in god, but we don't claim to know to an absolute certainty that that's the case.
123454321qcat 4 months ago