Penn and Teller are not experts & with out-dated claims. This deserves an informed response, which is not practical or appropriate in the form of a 300 character comment.
Pen & Teller's claims fall in three categories: 1. Asserting Pre-1950 Tibet as a Theocratic Serfdom, 2.Assertions about the Dalai Lama, 3. Asserting that Tibet would return to Theocracy.
Claim 1) Search Wikipedia, "Serfdom in Tibet Controversy" for info.
Claim 3) Simply incorrect in 2012, HHDL removed his own political role.
Apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order... what have the Romans done for us?
I REALLY don't understand where all these dummies are coming from with absolutely NO real knowledge on the subject besides the crap they get fed by the media corporations.
F*ck the Dalai Lama and his backward feudal sh*t, he was basically a friggin SLAVE DRIVER phony, don't you understand?!
Take some time and read some ACTUAL history books, look at China's history AND your own hypocritical country history and how you've oppressed YOUR own (black) peoples. (I'm looking at you, USA).
It's true, Tibet was far from a utopia. Yet in the 1950's, when the Chinese occupied Tibet, the Dalai Lama became interested in socialist ideas of reforming Tibet's feudal society and redistributing the wealth of the landowners. But the Chinese would have none of it, as they were more interested in total control, and the Dalai Lama had to flee in 1959 when the Chinese began murdering the Tibetans. Penn & Teller don't have time for such a nuanced viewpoint.
@MadBasstid A lot of people treat Penn & Teller like revered authorities on the subjects they speak about - which they are not - and Penn sometimes comes across as an egotistical asshole.
@squamish4244 agreed. I like Penn, and he is the first to admit that he is an asshole and that he might be wrong about shit. While some might seem to believe so, they are no experts and make no such claims, except when it comes to magic; this why they interview multiple experts on each subject. What they present is an opinion based on research they have conducted. you are free to examine the evidence yourself. This is primarily a comedy show, side of boobs & decent journalism
@oaim50 lol so why'd you watch it and comment? There's no reason to take P&T's word for anything- just look it up yourself. If it's true, there will be information to confirm it. If you care whether your beliefs are true, that is.
@oaim50 I tried posting a counter argument on another Penn & Teller video and was censored by the account holder! Apparently you are not allowed to challenge their views.
Congratulations, the War is Over !! The Next President of the United States of America is Muhammed Hansen, and he Lives on the front lawn of the White House in a Tent, and he is a Muslim, And a Buddhist :)
See how these American free Tibet puppets are trolling all over this board, it pisses them to see their great leader revealed for the fraud that he is.
The Lama is a fraud. Known that for years. I'm not saying the communists of China are perfect - far from it. I'm just saying that Tibet was a disgusting, horrible place while the Lama class was in control. Too many people have this Utopian dream of Old Tibet that never actually existed. Slavery was tolerated by the Lama class. Poverty among the masses was seen as breaking the chains of Samsara. What an evil doctrine.
chitter chatter. what can you learn from these fags?
more positively, instead of looking at buddhism's last layer,
what is buddhism really after gautama buddha first taught?
it's called "hinayana" ("small" way) because everything that came after wants to just put it down. fuking amazing systems of self-improvement and mental mastery in it though.
@what77777 Hey, I will be tired of waiting too, the faster that piece of shit country, China gets erased from this planet the better. Independence is something to fight for. especially from China, the slave labour country of the world, where new diseases are born.
I know I'm jumping on the bandwagon here but a decent amount of this was ended in 1910. By the Lama's predecessor. The Lama was in the middle of more reforms when China took over.
Racist fucking Anglo-American order with their silent war against the people of the East (and everywhere else including Europe). The more things change, the more things stay the same, especially when it comes to Anglos and their sick view of the world. Their days are numbered, good riddance when that day comes.
This show is just all about opinions and point of views something Ive learned about this show. Not everything is 100% accurate like most things including this show.
Funny, I prefer the way the old monk talks. Their is nothing wrong with your expression of negativity about the concepts a religious leader although almost all of the issue brought out in this video, I have heard all of the issues addressed before and most of them very well expressed. I think that you may have got this one wrong.
Ok you great Américan who cannot speak 3 words without placing a fucking or a bunch of bad words,how can you want to give a lesson to any in this world when yourself had for more than 2oo years slaves on the land that you have stollen,and you want to talk about morality !?!?! you d'better talk to a mirror in that sens.
May peace prevail on Earth,and I hope you may contribue to it by stopping your arrogance,and juge yourself before others.
Tibetans do not mind an authoritarian government per se BEcause, they came from one and you know what? They are happy!!! Happier than most people in democracies! and from a Buddhist point of view, that's a good place to live!
I would not mind living in a feudalist theocracy ruled by the Dalai Lama! seriously I would beg to live in such a place.
The only thing they DID mind, is that the precious religious freedom and culture that was destroyed, THAT is what really matters.
Here's a question an insane man is happy cos he believes he's living in an imaginary world while a sane man is unhappy cos he knows the reality would you rather be sane or insane?
I am personally from China and a Buddhist myself. Buddha knows I love and respect the Dalai Lama and Karmapa and all the Buddhist monks in the world! but a lot of people seem to have a romantisized version about Tibet and a one-sided view about its relation with China and ignore all the political and historical complications that stretch far back than most supporters of Tibetan freedom actually know. One word from me for thought: Tibetans DO NOT mind an authoritarian government
the one on organic was bull. They missed permaculture. Or the one on how good fast food was. Yea they sold out long ago. How bout taco bells 35% meat they call meat?
I don't really think we as westerners can judge a culture so different than ours, sure they have problems, but i think we should allow their country to live how they want.
the 14th dalai lama wasnt in charge before china invaded tibet.. and according to the 17 point agreement, point 4, the communist party gave him the power and didnt wanted to alter the system of tibet which they call cruel and him as a slave owner nowdays
No, lying is not human nature. Also, it is not a religion. There is no penalty. I don't know why people who have not experienced meditation continuously criticize this, but experience it first. Experience it fully, and then tell me if it is a religion. REligions tell you what to do.If you haven't read the source material and examined it scientifically, which is what the Buddha says to do, then how can you know what it is?
Penn and teller have twisted the hell out of their "facts" for the sake of entertainment. Although don't find it very entertaining. Kinda boring and irritating.
@ Matt Hun X- The reason it hurts to be lied to is because it is not natural, as the natural way we live is full of compassion, this is why so many bad things make the news, because it is not the normal way. Also, I would not ever believe anything handed to me by the state department. Politicians lie. People who want money lie. To be happy is something that we cannot take for granted. and is hard to hang on to, yet Buddhism has made me a more peaceful and focused person.
@ Matt Hun X- The reason it hurts to be lied to is because it is not natural, as the natural way we live is full of compassion, this is why so many bad things make the news, because it is not the normal way. Also, I would not ever believe anythign handed to me by the state department. Politicians lie. People who want money lie. To be happy is something that we cannot take for granted. and is hard to hang on to, yet Buddhism has made me a more peaceful and focused person.
@Mattkzenmusic It depends why someone is lying. It can be to gain something at the expense of others. Or it can be to avoid saying something the other person wouldn't like, or it would even make them very sad, thus sparing them of grief. Everything is relative. As is morality. And lying within it. A means to different (better or worse) ends. Religious morals and guidelines for life are a lot less flexible despite what the devout adherents claims. Buddhism is only better than Abrahamic religions.
Penn and Teller vaguely remind me of Simon and Garfunkel lol , I don't know why. They're great though although some of the information is a little inaccurate.
Mother Theresa never flew any less than secretly First Class, the Dalai Lama does the same, staying only in top five star hotels and chauffeured limousines. What is it with religious despots and their suckers?
@MattHunX @ Matt Hun X- The reason it hurts to be lied to is because it is not natural, as the natural way we live is full of compassion, this is why so many bad things make the news, because it is not the normal way. Also, I would not ever believe anything handed to me by the state department. Politicians lie. People who want money lie. To be happy is something that we cannot take for granted. and is hard to hang on to, yet Buddhism has made me a more peaceful and focused person.
and taking monny from cia is not nesseserely a bad thing.how can we now the real reasens way he did that.maby more good came from that. and its not becous somwon is a boedhis that he has now right to defend from harm.so if violanse is nessesery to protect your believes and life i can anderstand that. and the thing thay did with the scale is for little childeren. i think Penn & Teller are like little kids but in a grown up body peace
it was not the dalai lama doing these tortures or other things it was historie doing that before boedhisme came to tibbet it was alredy like that .all wat boedhisme try to do is to help the people see things how thay realy are.but it takes lots and lots of time. and i think the dalai lama nowe he had to be verry carfull wat he did and say even if he is a spirituel leader.just like a president.he can say manny thing but stil have to be verry carfel
Look I think they r trying 2 point out that the DL is not all that gr8 which is true there's quite a bit of dirt on him. Sure what the chinese did was worst & inexcusable as P&T also seem 2 suggest. So therefore we should hold him in high regard because the chinese r worst? Let's face it, the west love him especially american politicians becasue he is another international tool 2 prod and put pressure on china & the DL is more then willing 2 whore himself out 2 western media 2 get his land back
@utubeing567 win you are a president or other leader thare wil always be durt on you.some treu some not treu
but we must look at wat happend. like i have stolen in my life and some people say i am a thief.but way did i steel.did i steel just becous i dont wont to work or did manny things happen and than i steal.and its not his foult american politicians use hem. but i think he uses them to so he can spread his message of peace.thy bouth do the same thing but i think his actions are more pure
The Dalai Lama has said that Tibet, if freed, would not return to the old ways. He's said that a bunch. They kinda screwed up the research on this episode.
@blehblehbleh86 "The Dalai Lama has said that Tibet, if freed, would not return to the old ways."
That seems to me to be an admission of guilt of how it was and I think we can level valid criticisms on that ground. Of course we will never know if future states of affairs actualize like the Dalai Lama promises. One thing is for sure - we'll need more than his word.
@infinit888 Well it's an admission that Tibet was "backwards" in it's old ways, which is the Dalai Lama's exact words. But not necessarily admission of guilt since you have to keep in mind that the Dalai Lama was something like 12 years old when the Chinese invaded, and when he did come somewhat of age at 16-18 he was one of the reformers of Tibet trying to change the "old ways," before his exile in 1959.
@infinit888 The Dalai Lama did not creative Tibet's system of governance, that was established by the Tibetan people and is SUPPORTED by the Tibetan people. What Penn and Teller absolutely ignore in this episode is the right of self-determination in nations. The Tibetan people live differently than we do, they do NOT want our secular values, our western democracy, or any of that nonsense, they want to live as TIBETANS. why is this hard for you people?
@truthslap More do now though, than ever before. And lots of Tibetans joined with the communists to overthrow the aristocracy. In fact, most of the Tibetans who actually left were only members of the Aristocracy and laity. There are a lot of third party researching on the issue and the opinions of TIbetans. Most still abhor and never want the aristocracy to come back, but want the monks and Lama to come back.
what a terribly bad research done by Penn & Teller. Obviously has never actually hear his speeches. The Dalai Lama is FOR the separation of religion and state!
they just want to dumb down society even more and steal away all alternatives.
they have no idea what buddhism is really about!
instead they want you to be fearful, loaded with stress, take life too serious and be a slave to our western-capitalist-profit-driven-consumer-society and become a zombie that cant think logically!
yay, go to school, get a career, watch TV, obey the law, do not question authority,reproduce, and consume!
@DannoElectro Yeah,all that left wing canned speech,so simple that even a dumbass motherfucker communist like you can make a good one.If you dont like the society that you Sir live,go to Cuba to see how good the life is there. And dont forget holodomor,fucking red.
ok...very offensive. not kidding. the dalai lama represents compassion and happiness and he's changed my life. He's a great person and I'll always love him.
If anybody paid attention, you might notice that the native Tibetans, who have been exiled to Dhamsala, have repreatedly bad mouthed the Dalai Lama over his view that the Tibetan people should not fight to go back to Tibet, but to find happiness where they are. He is touring around the world to open centers to preserve the Tibetan heritage, not to go back. And to the people who want to encourage others to read about Buddhism, it might not be very skillfull calling them names.
@40510110 in what way dalai lama is responsible. u also are ignorant and i feel pity for you. people dont know nothing about stuff and keep shouting. u know what when u kick a empty can, u know what it makes more noise. so first stop creating a noise and full ur brain and then tell whole world with fact. some part world feel jealous of him as he is been great person without any allegation, so trying create different story. so my frd educate urself and i dont dislike comment.
hey Penn & Teller, u bullshit, read and know facts properly before telling some bad things about Dalai Lama. Do u have any credibility to say all these things. Do u think you guys r funny........ NOT. All these serf, living in palace and taking the eyes off were acts of some of the governments aristocrat who has no relevance with Dalai lama. you two are ignorant and doesnt know anything about this matter and better shut your mouth.
The Tibetan ppl got horribly screwed by the monk class for hundreds of years, and then got screwed by the Chinese government. Its an ugly fact but do your research by historians and you guys will see. And the Tibetan govt is looking for independance, not political freedom. Penn and Teller stick it you you without a shred of sugar.
Wow, after watching this Penn has lost all credibility for me, he has no idea what he is talking about and neither does Michael Parenti.
Its funny his show is called bullshit but this whole segment is bullshit. I guess he just stick to the American bullshit, cuz his attempt to highlight international bullshit has been a fail.
What parts of this clip are you referring to as being false and why? Your comment as it now is doesn't tell anyone anything about why this segment is bullshit, so why don't you enlighten us please...
@GrantZ90 It just baffles me how they don't know simple things cuz I thought Penn to be Quite a smart and informed guy. For example he says that the Dalai Lama wants Tibet to be freed from China when in fact he is only asking for true autonomy for Tibet within China. Penn also says that the Dalai Lama wants to be restored to power when in fact he has stated numerous times that he wouldn't have any sort of political position in an autonomous Tibet.
@Jigme32 Actually if you could stop being such a little bitch for a while you'd have to realize that they're right and you are just a stupid slave. Your magic invisible friends are horseshit and reincarnation is a money making scam.
@nilbud Listen you jack ass I don't believe in that stuff and you obviously don't know shit about this topic so maybe do a bit of research before you open your mouth.
The Dalai Lama was 12 when Tibet was invaded and he had no political power over Tibet at that age. In fact when he was put into power in 1950 because of the Chinese invasion, during his 9 years in Tibet as political ruler he tried to change the old system by making it more democratic, less hierarchical.
@Jigme32 The buddhists are a bunch of conmen, they stole all the cool stiff from the older Bon religion and then tried to stamp them out. The Dali Lama is the representative of a cruel and corrupt cult of assholes.
@nilbud Ah man, not to be offensive but you really don't know Tibetan history the current lineage or "school" that the Dalai Lama is head of is not the same lineage that was first introduced into Tibet.
In any case my main criticism of Penn and Michael Parenti's critique of pre-communist Tibet, aside from their poor research or fabrication, is that Tibet as a country was no better or worse than other Asian country at the time. Thus, to hold Tibet to modern day standards is anachronistic.
@Jigme32 LOL at no point there is another place where 95% of its populations are surfs or slaves, maybe exept medieval europe back then europe was headed by another theocratic religious dictator- the Pope. see the similarities between 11th century europe and the pre-1950 tibet???
@Jigme32 isn't that kind of a poor argument that tibet is not as bad as the rest of them? shouldn't the dalai lama's be above that since their divine? ( a hitchen's observation :) ) even if the current 1 isn't as bad as the past 1s he is (if u believe it) the reincarnation of them isn't he? like they said "the lesser of 2 evils is still evil"
lol i just don't trust religious groups that use celebrities like that, reminds me 2 much of scientology
The "everyone was doing it" argument doesn't hold water.
Besides, these ARE modern times and his call for a return to power is a contemporary one. He's a religious leader plain and simple, and giving religious leaders state power is a recipe for oppression. The Chinese are bastards no question, but if he really was anything other than a deposed monarch he'd return to China and fight to make that whole country free, not just his religious fiefdom.
@Innomen Your buying into the PRC's propaganda. The Dalai Lama hasn't ever made a "call for a return to power." However, what he has called for is, human rights, environmental preservation, and cultural rights of the Tibetan people to be respected and for the Tibetan people themselves to have say in their own governance within an true autonomous state within the PRC.
They are effectively equivalent and you know it. If he managed to get china to grant autonomy to Tibet what do you think would be the very first thing they'd do with it is?
I'm not buying into anyone's propaganda, I'm using logic and history.
Your assertion that he does not want to be returned to power is absurd. It's like saying you want to set something on fire but don't want to watch it burn.
@Innomen Yes, no doubt I agree with you that they are effectively equivalent or rather that granting the one (true autonomy) would mean allowing the other (complete independence) to be more easily granted, or taken. This is exactly why the PRC continues to stall on the Dalai Lama's negotiations for true autonomy for the Tibetans within the PRC.
By singling out the Tibetan people he's showing his efforts to be nothing more than a power play.
If he really just cared about human rights he'd encourage Tibet to dissolve and focus on improving human rights and religious freedom throughout china and beyond. He could fund a steady exodus. Does it mater where you find enlightenment? Making Tibet special is just ego.
Buddha wouldn't care about borders or recognition or the permanence of the Tibetan state.
@Innomen Well, the Dalai Lama does speak out on other human rights issues, it's just that they don't get as much publicity since he's known for being associated with Tibetan issues.
@Innomen From what I've heard from the Dalai Lama is that his stance is that he is the religious leader of the Tibetan people and so in that capacity he hold's his own people's plight closest and as his highest duty. In addition, in religious terms, he is considered a manifestation of the Buddha of compassion, Avalokiteśvara, who's role is essential a protector of the Tibetan people and religion from oppression.
And there's the problem isn't it. As with all religion, its about us vs them. Followers are superior to everyone else. Being a religious figure he's constrained from responding to the needs themselves. Human rights and all that are secondary to Tibetan rights, and adherence to the faith.
That is exactly how forgive them father morphed into the auto-da-fé.
@Innomen About my assertion that the Dalai Lama not wanting a return to power, I don't think it's absurd at all. I mean yes it may be somewhat absurd if I just believed it based on the Dalai Lama merely saying that he does not want to return to power in Tibet, but he's already installed a democratic parliamentary Tibetan-Government-In-Exile parliamentary in Dharamsala, India that governs over the Tibetan's outside of Tibet.
@Innomen In my opinion the PRC will never let the Dalai Lama back into Tibet, he has too much support from the people that it would be too dangerous for them. If the Dalai was allowed back into Tibet and he began to criticize the PRC, the Tibetan people would follow behind him and if the PRC tried to punish the Dalai Lama that would only cause a huge uproar from the Tibetan people.
They would imprison him immediately. Which is where all the real human rights leaders in china are anyway. And you are right, the backlash would be swift and vehement, which is exactly why he should return. His leaving was a good idea, but it's a different world, his return would accomplish FAR more for his cause than what he does now.
Frankly I'm glad he doesn't, because I don't want to see yet another Luddite religious state.
@Innomen So essentially the way I see it, even if it were the case that the Dalai Lama was saying that he did not want a return to power but in reality was only lying about this - even though this is highly unlikely judging by his has many actions that would suggest otherwise - the Tibetan people already have a taste for democracy and would not stand for it.
@Innomen I somewhat agree with all but your last point. I've already sort of explained why the Dalai Lama does not want a return to a "religious state" in the last few posts, so I won't get into that. But about the "Luddite" statement, I don't even know where that's coming from. As I think I mentioned before, If you read into the history of the Dalai Lama, and even the previous Dalai Lama, they were reformers that actually attempted to bring about modernization in Tibet.
We need to debate somewhere where we can fully respond to each other.
The actions you mention are superficial and symbolic. He's knowingly perpetuating a conflict that he could end with surrender. His refusal is extremely ironic given much of the faith he claims to be of.
As for Luddism, it's implicit in all ascetic monastic orders.
In my opinion at this point the Buddha would be transhumanist. Google "A Defence Of Paradise-Engineering" it's at hedweb com and net
do you understand what your statement holds? not only is it degrading to other asian countries,some of which i grew up and lived in but this is just utter hipocrisy and ignorance. do your research. certainly the philippines,japan,china and even burma was way ahead of the backwards religious-ran state you all think was all fine and dandy. does dogmatism cover the urge to search and accept the truth?
@richardhaw I think your sort of misunderstanding what I was trying to say. I'm not saying that I agree with Penn & Teller that Tibet was a horrible place but the rest of Asia was no different. I'm saying that Penn and Teller are wrong and that Tibet was not as bad as they describe, but of course Tibet was not a "shangri-la", just like other Asian countries of the time, and even the same could be said of any pre-industrial society for the majority of the population.
@richardhaw Penn & Teller say that there was widespread torture in Tibet and widespread abuse of the majority of the population (i.e the peasant class). However the previous Dalai Lama banned torture in the late 19th century, and there's no scholarly evidence that agrees with the regular use of torture, nor mistreatment of peasants.
@richardhaw If you read about the Tibetan social system of that time and the treatment of the "mi-ser" (peasant) class in Tibet, Tibet was unique in that they had so much land yet not many people. This meant that peasants were that much more valuable to the landowners who needed peasants to work their land. If peasants were mistreated they could simply move elsewhere and if not, there was also a central court of appeal in Lhasa for unlawful treatment of peasants.
@richardhaw In a sense, we have a bias when judging cultures who had social systems we label as "serfdom," since our typical conception of the serf system is from that of medieval Europe and pre-industrial Europe where abuses were prevalent since it was the exact opposite demographic and geographic situation as Tibet (i.e. There a lot more peasants then there were land to cultivate). Thus making peasants less valuable and more prone to abuse or mistreatment from landowners.
you, sir...should not be making statements that you do not understand or comprehend. not only will you insult other people and their culture but this is a big disservice to you as well. i am too eager to see the dalai lama go,his hipocrisy will not go away with him,but kill the snake by the head as we say. i am not a chinese commy supporter but what the western media is saying is just bull. only stupid and hopelessly romantic people looking for a fantasy fall for the dalai lama
@Jigme32 To give Tibet a free pass because everyone else was doing it too is a really bad way of looking at it. Everyone else is doing it is not an excuse to do evil things.
@Jigme32 the dali lama has also stated several times that he is no longer seeking the liberation of tibet. He just wants to stop the persecution of tibetans. I lost my respect for pen and teller after this episode, a load of opinionated crap as far as i can see while selectively choosing information that supports their argument.
@nilbud Have you actually read anything that the Dalai Lama has written? I bet you haven't. You might want to actually read up on buddhism and the Dalai Lama before opening your big, fat, ignorant trap. I am not a buddhist but I have been reading up on the religion as well as the Dalai Lama's books. Frankly he makes more sense than all the snake oil salesmen in Christianity.
@eanderson1974 You're just an idiot and I couldn't care less what you think about anything. Keep reading your books and half baking your opinions. Life is suffering, if you're a spoiled child.
@nilbud In fact he was only carrying out what the previous Dalai Lama had been trying to do in Tibet during his rule which was to modernize Tibet in order to create better infrastructure for the Tibetan people and try to rid of the aristocratic ruling. However the aristocratic were resistant to this change for obvious reasons. Penn also said that there was torture in Tibet the current's Dalai Lama's rule when in fact the previous Dalai Lama had banned torture.
And for my last comment, I urge people to not insult or be angry at these men and their writers, they deserve compassion, as do all sentient beings. Their karma is weighed heavy because of making this episode, and with every view of this video it gets worse. Please do not bring bad karma onto yourself by insulting them, simply feel compassion toward them and the retribution they are due to have because of their negative karma.
@PoetFang You're a gullible shithead and you support the criminal dali lama and his conman act. Have you no shame? You lie about magic and nonsense. Your sad weakness is nothing but a joke to anyone who is sane. Now get back to your menial task.
Also, Steven Segal has now been sort of... how to put it... disregarded would be the light way to put it? By Buddhism. He was originally thought to be an authentic reincarnation of a master, but the idea went to his head and he lost sight of what Buddhism is about.
I'm a Vajrayana Buddhist, and all I can say is that I feel sorry for these men and those who did the writing for this, for giving the wrong view of Buddhist brings on immensely bad karma. Hey, maybe that's why no one knows who they are anymore. Any "wealth" the dalai lama had was through donations. Tibet was a religious country, and felt that making offerings would help themselves. The amount the monks have doesn't show the greediness of the monks, but the devotedness of the people.
@monicavictor82 Activism in regards to Tibet is not a load of nonsense. They have a point about religious hypocrisy, but in regards to the actions of the Chinese and the history of it, check out a documentary called "Cry of the Snow Lion".
@ruderevival You seriously need to base your arguments off of evidence. "No matter what you say . . ." is seriously close-minded and detrimental to the development of the human mind.
@3:10. He equates squalor and the condoning of slavery to a set of heavy shackles. But for labor camps and prisons, he uses 2
lightweight padlocks (that weigh a little more than a bunch of human eyeballs).
This is a total farce. There is no objectivity in this method of pseudo measurement. Qauntifying oppression using a single shackle and two padlocks is extremely absurd.
Penn and Teller are not experts & with out-dated claims. This deserves an informed response, which is not practical or appropriate in the form of a 300 character comment.
Pen & Teller's claims fall in three categories: 1. Asserting Pre-1950 Tibet as a Theocratic Serfdom, 2.Assertions about the Dalai Lama, 3. Asserting that Tibet would return to Theocracy.
Claim 1) Search Wikipedia, "Serfdom in Tibet Controversy" for info.
Claim 3) Simply incorrect in 2012, HHDL removed his own political role.
CedarArchive 22 hours ago
Apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order... what have the Romans done for us?
RishiRamraj 1 day ago
I REALLY don't understand where all these dummies are coming from with absolutely NO real knowledge on the subject besides the crap they get fed by the media corporations.
F*ck the Dalai Lama and his backward feudal sh*t, he was basically a friggin SLAVE DRIVER phony, don't you understand?!
Take some time and read some ACTUAL history books, look at China's history AND your own hypocritical country history and how you've oppressed YOUR own (black) peoples. (I'm looking at you, USA).
steyrssgfly 1 week ago
It's true, Tibet was far from a utopia. Yet in the 1950's, when the Chinese occupied Tibet, the Dalai Lama became interested in socialist ideas of reforming Tibet's feudal society and redistributing the wealth of the landowners. But the Chinese would have none of it, as they were more interested in total control, and the Dalai Lama had to flee in 1959 when the Chinese began murdering the Tibetans. Penn & Teller don't have time for such a nuanced viewpoint.
squamish4244 1 week ago
beware of anyone who is exalted, bowed down to, revered, and draped in finery. They're usually assholes.
MadBasstid 2 weeks ago
@MadBasstid A lot of people treat Penn & Teller like revered authorities on the subjects they speak about - which they are not - and Penn sometimes comes across as an egotistical asshole.
squamish4244 1 week ago
@squamish4244 agreed. I like Penn, and he is the first to admit that he is an asshole and that he might be wrong about shit. While some might seem to believe so, they are no experts and make no such claims, except when it comes to magic; this why they interview multiple experts on each subject. What they present is an opinion based on research they have conducted. you are free to examine the evidence yourself. This is primarily a comedy show, side of boobs & decent journalism
MadBasstid 1 week ago
Does someone really care what these two guys say? I don't. I'm out of here.
oaim50 3 weeks ago
@oaim50 lol so why'd you watch it and comment? There's no reason to take P&T's word for anything- just look it up yourself. If it's true, there will be information to confirm it. If you care whether your beliefs are true, that is.
MadBasstid 2 weeks ago
@oaim50 I tried posting a counter argument on another Penn & Teller video and was censored by the account holder! Apparently you are not allowed to challenge their views.
squamish4244 1 week ago
@oaim50 you're going to stick your fingers in your ears and yell really loud?
Smokeheefer 4 days ago
Oh really 85Degrees?? Nothing but us Shanghai 50cent trolls here as far as I can see.
oaim50 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Congratulations, the War is Over !! The Next President of the United States of America is Muhammed Hansen, and he Lives on the front lawn of the White House in a Tent, and he is a Muslim, And a Buddhist :)
polterguy2 1 month ago
See how these American free Tibet puppets are trolling all over this board, it pisses them to see their great leader revealed for the fraud that he is.
85Degrees 1 month ago
Comment removed
squamish4244 1 month ago
Beware of compassion
quatrocoqui 1 month ago
The Lama is a fraud. Known that for years. I'm not saying the communists of China are perfect - far from it. I'm just saying that Tibet was a disgusting, horrible place while the Lama class was in control. Too many people have this Utopian dream of Old Tibet that never actually existed. Slavery was tolerated by the Lama class. Poverty among the masses was seen as breaking the chains of Samsara. What an evil doctrine.
metrx330 1 month ago
Obviously they didn't notice that it was the system they in fact live under that backs this bastard.
MrSammo1 1 month ago
chitter chatter. what can you learn from these fags?
more positively, instead of looking at buddhism's last layer,
what is buddhism really after gautama buddha first taught?
it's called "hinayana" ("small" way) because everything that came after wants to just put it down. fuking amazing systems of self-improvement and mental mastery in it though.
megamorphg 1 month ago
@megamorphg you're a stupid faggot
qtzlctl2012 1 month ago
Free Tibet!
Chingfordassociates 2 months ago
@Chingfordassociates with purchase of tibet of equal or lesser value!
qtzlctl2012 1 month ago
Dalai Lama = fraud
magneto44 2 months ago 5
these guys have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.
shuunaynay 2 months ago
@shuunaynay
You mean the two hosts, or the countless experts they've interviewed or the historic and violent data of tibet ?
Basketalbi 2 months ago 2
@g0twav thats two things... Fail... XD
bbrown3112 2 months ago
I want to buy that thing...
rumplestiltskein 3 months ago
Who cares about what a couple of Vegas magicians say??
TheTerrorUforgot 3 months ago
@TheTerrorUforgot Who cares what a random youtube commentar says??
Fablefiend 3 months ago 6
Dalai Lama doesn't want independence. They just want cultural, and religious freedom for his people and himself.
eafanboyssuck 4 months ago
@eafanboyssuck Oh is that why he took money from the CIA to fight a guerilla war against China? LOL
what77777 4 months ago
@what77777 Hey, I will be tired of waiting too, the faster that piece of shit country, China gets erased from this planet the better. Independence is something to fight for. especially from China, the slave labour country of the world, where new diseases are born.
eafanboyssuck 4 months ago
@eafanboyssuck He took it in the 60s ya dumbarse.
what77777 4 months ago
I know I'm jumping on the bandwagon here but a decent amount of this was ended in 1910. By the Lama's predecessor. The Lama was in the middle of more reforms when China took over.
manyfat 5 months ago
Dalai bin laden and his gang is funded and trained by the CIA.
That's why he is still a homeless beggar after 60 years of spreading love, compassion and forgiveness for all sentient beings.
Mmmmmm? Could be his KARMA...
dorjee168 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Fuck the Da LIE LAMA
lppoqql 6 months ago
Racist fucking Anglo-American order with their silent war against the people of the East (and everywhere else including Europe). The more things change, the more things stay the same, especially when it comes to Anglos and their sick view of the world. Their days are numbered, good riddance when that day comes.
jczg08alt 6 months ago
@jczg08alt If I learned one thing about Britain, they corrupted the USA, and sought to decimate Germany.
g0twav 2 months ago
This show is just all about opinions and point of views something Ive learned about this show. Not everything is 100% accurate like most things including this show.
Rebel4Life69 6 months ago
Fuck the Dalai lama
ImaginedWriter 7 months ago
Funny, I prefer the way the old monk talks. Their is nothing wrong with your expression of negativity about the concepts a religious leader although almost all of the issue brought out in this video, I have heard all of the issues addressed before and most of them very well expressed. I think that you may have got this one wrong.
Noospherebusiness 8 months ago
I love the Dalai Lama. Someday we'll all be able to sing.....
Hello Dalai, well hello Dalai,
It's so nice to have you back where you belong :o)
jamieblond1 8 months ago
Ok you great Américan who cannot speak 3 words without placing a fucking or a bunch of bad words,how can you want to give a lesson to any in this world when yourself had for more than 2oo years slaves on the land that you have stollen,and you want to talk about morality !?!?! you d'better talk to a mirror in that sens.
May peace prevail on Earth,and I hope you may contribue to it by stopping your arrogance,and juge yourself before others.
denisalain 8 months ago
hey fuking asholes
is your mind on the right place
what's wrong with having a belief
if u think that this iz funny then fuck off
bitch you guyz suck
tzinl0v3 9 months ago
Tibetans do not mind an authoritarian government per se BEcause, they came from one and you know what? They are happy!!! Happier than most people in democracies! and from a Buddhist point of view, that's a good place to live!
I would not mind living in a feudalist theocracy ruled by the Dalai Lama! seriously I would beg to live in such a place.
The only thing they DID mind, is that the precious religious freedom and culture that was destroyed, THAT is what really matters.
dimcao 9 months ago
@dimcao I sincerly hope you are being facetious.
Herufaia 7 months ago
@dimcao
Don't make up BS you piece of crap.
Here's a question an insane man is happy cos he believes he's living in an imaginary world while a sane man is unhappy cos he knows the reality would you rather be sane or insane?
doggyboyboy 5 months ago
I am personally from China and a Buddhist myself. Buddha knows I love and respect the Dalai Lama and Karmapa and all the Buddhist monks in the world! but a lot of people seem to have a romantisized version about Tibet and a one-sided view about its relation with China and ignore all the political and historical complications that stretch far back than most supporters of Tibetan freedom actually know. One word from me for thought: Tibetans DO NOT mind an authoritarian government
dimcao 9 months ago
@eltavolt Here I thought you are calling someone an asshole just because you disagree with their opinions. I must have been mistaken.
PrometheanRunGood 10 months ago
@eltavolt Because religious people are so open to debate?
PrometheanRunGood 10 months ago
These guys are a complete waste of space. Just fighting for the right to be miserable. Criticizing human beings is shooting fish in a barrel.
jvaish 10 months ago
the one on organic was bull. They missed permaculture. Or the one on how good fast food was. Yea they sold out long ago. How bout taco bells 35% meat they call meat?
theehealthnuts 10 months ago
I don't really think we as westerners can judge a culture so different than ours, sure they have problems, but i think we should allow their country to live how they want.
NatureGnome 10 months ago
Christianity is bullshit. Buddhism is bullshit. All religion is bullshit!
mpauger15 11 months ago
@mpauger15 Buddhism is hardly a religion.
MurdocLC 10 months ago
too bad that penn & teller lack of common sense
the 14th dalai lama wasnt in charge before china invaded tibet.. and according to the 17 point agreement, point 4, the communist party gave him the power and didnt wanted to alter the system of tibet which they call cruel and him as a slave owner nowdays
isnt that funny??? penn & teller = huuuuuuge fail
TheMightyGuri 11 months ago
No, lying is not human nature. Also, it is not a religion. There is no penalty. I don't know why people who have not experienced meditation continuously criticize this, but experience it first. Experience it fully, and then tell me if it is a religion. REligions tell you what to do.If you haven't read the source material and examined it scientifically, which is what the Buddha says to do, then how can you know what it is?
Mattkzenmusic 1 year ago
Penn and teller have twisted the hell out of their "facts" for the sake of entertainment. Although don't find it very entertaining. Kinda boring and irritating.
loopsydazy 1 year ago
@ Matt Hun X- The reason it hurts to be lied to is because it is not natural, as the natural way we live is full of compassion, this is why so many bad things make the news, because it is not the normal way. Also, I would not ever believe anything handed to me by the state department. Politicians lie. People who want money lie. To be happy is something that we cannot take for granted. and is hard to hang on to, yet Buddhism has made me a more peaceful and focused person.
Mattkzenmusic 1 year ago
@ Matt Hun X- The reason it hurts to be lied to is because it is not natural, as the natural way we live is full of compassion, this is why so many bad things make the news, because it is not the normal way. Also, I would not ever believe anythign handed to me by the state department. Politicians lie. People who want money lie. To be happy is something that we cannot take for granted. and is hard to hang on to, yet Buddhism has made me a more peaceful and focused person.
Mattkzenmusic 1 year ago
@Mattkzenmusic It depends why someone is lying. It can be to gain something at the expense of others. Or it can be to avoid saying something the other person wouldn't like, or it would even make them very sad, thus sparing them of grief. Everything is relative. As is morality. And lying within it. A means to different (better or worse) ends. Religious morals and guidelines for life are a lot less flexible despite what the devout adherents claims. Buddhism is only better than Abrahamic religions.
MattHunX 1 year ago
Penn and Teller vaguely remind me of Simon and Garfunkel lol , I don't know why. They're great though although some of the information is a little inaccurate.
A0Candle0In0The0Dark 1 year ago
Mother Theresa never flew any less than secretly First Class, the Dalai Lama does the same, staying only in top five star hotels and chauffeured limousines. What is it with religious despots and their suckers?
brokenscimitar 1 year ago
@brokenscimitar Where do you get your facts?
Mattkzenmusic 1 year ago
@Mattkzenmusic
Biographies and Wikileaks.
brokenscimitar 1 year ago
we chinese wont trust anyone who has touched CIA money, ever. you can forget about dalai lama. we are not the Nobel peace prize commitee.
tiger9502 1 year ago 2
"...violence and telling lies, cheating...basically against the human nature"
Tch...they are PART OF human nature.
MattHunX 1 year ago
@MattHunX @ Matt Hun X- The reason it hurts to be lied to is because it is not natural, as the natural way we live is full of compassion, this is why so many bad things make the news, because it is not the normal way. Also, I would not ever believe anything handed to me by the state department. Politicians lie. People who want money lie. To be happy is something that we cannot take for granted. and is hard to hang on to, yet Buddhism has made me a more peaceful and focused person.
Mattkzenmusic 1 year ago
blehblehbleh86 do you believe everything politician's say? yes the Dalai lama is politician
downeybill 1 year ago
and taking monny from cia is not nesseserely a bad thing.how can we now the real reasens way he did that.maby more good came from that. and its not becous somwon is a boedhis that he has now right to defend from harm.so if violanse is nessesery to protect your believes and life i can anderstand that. and the thing thay did with the scale is for little childeren. i think Penn & Teller are like little kids but in a grown up body peace
zurudu 1 year ago
it was not the dalai lama doing these tortures or other things it was historie doing that before boedhisme came to tibbet it was alredy like that .all wat boedhisme try to do is to help the people see things how thay realy are.but it takes lots and lots of time. and i think the dalai lama nowe he had to be verry carfull wat he did and say even if he is a spirituel leader.just like a president.he can say manny thing but stil have to be verry carfel
zurudu 1 year ago
Look I think they r trying 2 point out that the DL is not all that gr8 which is true there's quite a bit of dirt on him. Sure what the chinese did was worst & inexcusable as P&T also seem 2 suggest. So therefore we should hold him in high regard because the chinese r worst? Let's face it, the west love him especially american politicians becasue he is another international tool 2 prod and put pressure on china & the DL is more then willing 2 whore himself out 2 western media 2 get his land back
utubeing567 1 year ago
@utubeing567 win you are a president or other leader thare wil always be durt on you.some treu some not treu
but we must look at wat happend. like i have stolen in my life and some people say i am a thief.but way did i steel.did i steel just becous i dont wont to work or did manny things happen and than i steal.and its not his foult american politicians use hem. but i think he uses them to so he can spread his message of peace.thy bouth do the same thing but i think his actions are more pure
zurudu 1 year ago
"If there is any religion that would cope with modern scientific needs, it would be Buddhism."---Einstein
The Dalai Lama was born of parents who were farmers not part of any aristocratic class.
786GuardianAngel 1 year ago
The Dalai Lama has said that Tibet, if freed, would not return to the old ways. He's said that a bunch. They kinda screwed up the research on this episode.
blehblehbleh86 1 year ago
@blehblehbleh86 "The Dalai Lama has said that Tibet, if freed, would not return to the old ways."
That seems to me to be an admission of guilt of how it was and I think we can level valid criticisms on that ground. Of course we will never know if future states of affairs actualize like the Dalai Lama promises. One thing is for sure - we'll need more than his word.
infinit888 1 year ago 46
@infinit888 Well it's an admission that Tibet was "backwards" in it's old ways, which is the Dalai Lama's exact words. But not necessarily admission of guilt since you have to keep in mind that the Dalai Lama was something like 12 years old when the Chinese invaded, and when he did come somewhat of age at 16-18 he was one of the reformers of Tibet trying to change the "old ways," before his exile in 1959.
Jigme32 11 months ago
@infinit888
admission of guilt that was actually granted by the chinese communist party
TheMightyGuri 11 months ago
@infinit888 or a belief in progress
snubbs741 11 months ago
@ infinit888
If Tibetans were serfs or slaves they wouldn't have risen up many times after the communist invasion which began in 1949-50.
.
Free China from Slavery Factories in 2011.
.
Free Tibet and China from backward communist party polices in 2011.
FalunGongIsAmazing 7 months ago
@infinit888 The Dalai Lama did not creative Tibet's system of governance, that was established by the Tibetan people and is SUPPORTED by the Tibetan people. What Penn and Teller absolutely ignore in this episode is the right of self-determination in nations. The Tibetan people live differently than we do, they do NOT want our secular values, our western democracy, or any of that nonsense, they want to live as TIBETANS. why is this hard for you people?
truthslap 6 months ago
@truthslap More do now though, than ever before. And lots of Tibetans joined with the communists to overthrow the aristocracy. In fact, most of the Tibetans who actually left were only members of the Aristocracy and laity. There are a lot of third party researching on the issue and the opinions of TIbetans. Most still abhor and never want the aristocracy to come back, but want the monks and Lama to come back.
MasterAsra 5 months ago 2
@infinit888 perhaps an admission of guilt, but remember that he was only a child when he was forced out of tibet.
also, by now the tibetans have actually elected a secular political leader and the dalai lama is only the head of the religious part.
cl0r 4 months ago 2
@blehblehbleh86 And Hitler said he wouldn't invade Poland.
stevensonbak 9 months ago
@stevensonbak hhmmm what hitler and mao have in common lets see..
OHHfuckit 7 months ago
@blehblehbleh86
shut up fuck face tibet belongs to china
doggyboyboy 5 months ago
@doggyboyboy Your "made in China", no one cares.
eafanboyssuck 4 months ago
Search for "Dorje Shugden" and watch all.
The DL has been a disappointing representation of the religion in this Dorje Shuge stuff.
German1184 1 year ago
What are these two idiots talking about?
Naptu69 1 year ago
what a terribly bad research done by Penn & Teller. Obviously has never actually hear his speeches. The Dalai Lama is FOR the separation of religion and state!
thegameshop 1 year ago
this is just super ignorant!
they just want to dumb down society even more and steal away all alternatives.
they have no idea what buddhism is really about!
instead they want you to be fearful, loaded with stress, take life too serious and be a slave to our western-capitalist-profit-driven-consumer-society and become a zombie that cant think logically!
yay, go to school, get a career, watch TV, obey the law, do not question authority,reproduce, and consume!
YAY, we are FREE to do as they tell us
DannoElectro 1 year ago
@DannoElectro Yeah,all that left wing canned speech,so simple that even a dumbass motherfucker communist like you can make a good one.If you dont like the society that you Sir live,go to Cuba to see how good the life is there. And dont forget holodomor,fucking red.
raptorspb 1 year ago
@raptorspb first of all I'm not a communist supporter.
it's always bad when people have to suffer, no matter what regime!
but you can't deny the fact that we cause a whole lot of suffering as well.
does left or right stilleven matter anymore, when we see that both sides are working for the same people on the end.
does it bother you that we are at war, based on lies?
that they are taking away our civil liberties?
that we are destroying our environment, thus our future?
all in the name of profits
DannoElectro 1 year ago
after diner raconteur? are you serious!?
mrzipdisk 1 year ago
super retarded, thumbs down. but they got balls.
djembe41 1 year ago
thanks for the insult to whole tibetan race and its people. if i meet one of you crapy fool american , gonna die on the spot.
jackidol1 1 year ago
This Penn or Teller guy is very good at screaming at his audience, he is upset about something, probably his ignorance.
Very good one sided story with cheap theatrics.
truelementcal 1 year ago
ok...very offensive. not kidding. the dalai lama represents compassion and happiness and he's changed my life. He's a great person and I'll always love him.
blessthedalailama 1 year ago
If anybody paid attention, you might notice that the native Tibetans, who have been exiled to Dhamsala, have repreatedly bad mouthed the Dalai Lama over his view that the Tibetan people should not fight to go back to Tibet, but to find happiness where they are. He is touring around the world to open centers to preserve the Tibetan heritage, not to go back. And to the people who want to encourage others to read about Buddhism, it might not be very skillfull calling them names.
dharmahooligan 1 year ago
you have an extremely annoying voice
icanteatwheat 1 year ago
@40510110 in what way dalai lama is responsible. u also are ignorant and i feel pity for you. people dont know nothing about stuff and keep shouting. u know what when u kick a empty can, u know what it makes more noise. so first stop creating a noise and full ur brain and then tell whole world with fact. some part world feel jealous of him as he is been great person without any allegation, so trying create different story. so my frd educate urself and i dont dislike comment.
derickten 1 year ago
hey Penn & Teller, u bullshit, read and know facts properly before telling some bad things about Dalai Lama. Do u have any credibility to say all these things. Do u think you guys r funny........ NOT. All these serf, living in palace and taking the eyes off were acts of some of the governments aristocrat who has no relevance with Dalai lama. you two are ignorant and doesnt know anything about this matter and better shut your mouth.
derickten 1 year ago
@derickten Dalai Lama is responsible no matter what.
40510110 1 year ago
Comment removed
0321tiggerdell 1 year ago
Comment removed
nilbud 1 year ago
Comment removed
0321tiggerdell 1 year ago
Comment removed
0321tiggerdell 1 year ago
Comment removed
0321tiggerdell 1 year ago
Comment removed
0321tiggerdell 1 year ago
yes you two dumb ass are bull shit. and look at you one is pervert and other one is cock sucker.
jackidol1 1 year ago
@jackidol1 Hey now there's no need to drag your parents into this.
nilbud 1 year ago
@nilbud ya you want to drag you whore family down, ya get life you cock sucker, what you know , when you don't know your mom.
jackidol1 1 year ago
yes you two dumb ass are bull shit.
jackidol1 1 year ago
The Tibetan ppl got horribly screwed by the monk class for hundreds of years, and then got screwed by the Chinese government. Its an ugly fact but do your research by historians and you guys will see. And the Tibetan govt is looking for independance, not political freedom. Penn and Teller stick it you you without a shred of sugar.
shkotay 1 year ago
This video is such crap. These two faggots are just like Rush Lambert
PlayinThegameIn503 1 year ago
@PlayinThegameIn503 Rush Lambert eh, no actually the dali lama is a deviant conman and you are a gullible imbecile.
nilbud 1 year ago
wow harisson ford... did NOT see that coming
nubcakehero 1 year ago
Wow, after watching this Penn has lost all credibility for me, he has no idea what he is talking about and neither does Michael Parenti.
Its funny his show is called bullshit but this whole segment is bullshit. I guess he just stick to the American bullshit, cuz his attempt to highlight international bullshit has been a fail.
Jigme32 1 year ago
@Jigme32
What parts of this clip are you referring to as being false and why? Your comment as it now is doesn't tell anyone anything about why this segment is bullshit, so why don't you enlighten us please...
GrantZ90 1 year ago
@GrantZ90 It just baffles me how they don't know simple things cuz I thought Penn to be Quite a smart and informed guy. For example he says that the Dalai Lama wants Tibet to be freed from China when in fact he is only asking for true autonomy for Tibet within China. Penn also says that the Dalai Lama wants to be restored to power when in fact he has stated numerous times that he wouldn't have any sort of political position in an autonomous Tibet.
Jigme32 1 year ago
@Jigme32 Actually if you could stop being such a little bitch for a while you'd have to realize that they're right and you are just a stupid slave. Your magic invisible friends are horseshit and reincarnation is a money making scam.
nilbud 1 year ago
@nilbud Listen you jack ass I don't believe in that stuff and you obviously don't know shit about this topic so maybe do a bit of research before you open your mouth.
The Dalai Lama was 12 when Tibet was invaded and he had no political power over Tibet at that age. In fact when he was put into power in 1950 because of the Chinese invasion, during his 9 years in Tibet as political ruler he tried to change the old system by making it more democratic, less hierarchical.
Jigme32 1 year ago
@Jigme32 The buddhists are a bunch of conmen, they stole all the cool stiff from the older Bon religion and then tried to stamp them out. The Dali Lama is the representative of a cruel and corrupt cult of assholes.
nilbud 1 year ago
@nilbud Ah man, not to be offensive but you really don't know Tibetan history the current lineage or "school" that the Dalai Lama is head of is not the same lineage that was first introduced into Tibet.
In any case my main criticism of Penn and Michael Parenti's critique of pre-communist Tibet, aside from their poor research or fabrication, is that Tibet as a country was no better or worse than other Asian country at the time. Thus, to hold Tibet to modern day standards is anachronistic.
Jigme32 1 year ago 29
@Jigme32 go on and we have full support.
derickten 1 year ago
@Jigme32 LOL at no point there is another place where 95% of its populations are surfs or slaves, maybe exept medieval europe back then europe was headed by another theocratic religious dictator- the Pope. see the similarities between 11th century europe and the pre-1950 tibet???
obsidianstatue 1 year ago
@Jigme32 isn't that kind of a poor argument that tibet is not as bad as the rest of them? shouldn't the dalai lama's be above that since their divine? ( a hitchen's observation :) ) even if the current 1 isn't as bad as the past 1s he is (if u believe it) the reincarnation of them isn't he? like they said "the lesser of 2 evils is still evil"
lol i just don't trust religious groups that use celebrities like that, reminds me 2 much of scientology
utubeing567 1 year ago
@Jigme32
The "everyone was doing it" argument doesn't hold water.
Besides, these ARE modern times and his call for a return to power is a contemporary one. He's a religious leader plain and simple, and giving religious leaders state power is a recipe for oppression. The Chinese are bastards no question, but if he really was anything other than a deposed monarch he'd return to China and fight to make that whole country free, not just his religious fiefdom.
Liu Xiaobo > The Dalai Lama
Innomen 11 months ago
@Innomen Your buying into the PRC's propaganda. The Dalai Lama hasn't ever made a "call for a return to power." However, what he has called for is, human rights, environmental preservation, and cultural rights of the Tibetan people to be respected and for the Tibetan people themselves to have say in their own governance within an true autonomous state within the PRC.
Jigme32 11 months ago
@Jigme32
They are effectively equivalent and you know it. If he managed to get china to grant autonomy to Tibet what do you think would be the very first thing they'd do with it is?
I'm not buying into anyone's propaganda, I'm using logic and history.
Your assertion that he does not want to be returned to power is absurd. It's like saying you want to set something on fire but don't want to watch it burn.
Innomen 11 months ago
@Innomen Yes, no doubt I agree with you that they are effectively equivalent or rather that granting the one (true autonomy) would mean allowing the other (complete independence) to be more easily granted, or taken. This is exactly why the PRC continues to stall on the Dalai Lama's negotiations for true autonomy for the Tibetans within the PRC.
Jigme32 11 months ago
@Jigme32
By singling out the Tibetan people he's showing his efforts to be nothing more than a power play.
If he really just cared about human rights he'd encourage Tibet to dissolve and focus on improving human rights and religious freedom throughout china and beyond. He could fund a steady exodus. Does it mater where you find enlightenment? Making Tibet special is just ego.
Buddha wouldn't care about borders or recognition or the permanence of the Tibetan state.
Innomen 11 months ago
@Innomen Well, the Dalai Lama does speak out on other human rights issues, it's just that they don't get as much publicity since he's known for being associated with Tibetan issues.
Jigme32 11 months ago
@Innomen From what I've heard from the Dalai Lama is that his stance is that he is the religious leader of the Tibetan people and so in that capacity he hold's his own people's plight closest and as his highest duty. In addition, in religious terms, he is considered a manifestation of the Buddha of compassion, Avalokiteśvara, who's role is essential a protector of the Tibetan people and religion from oppression.
Jigme32 11 months ago
@Jigme32
And there's the problem isn't it. As with all religion, its about us vs them. Followers are superior to everyone else. Being a religious figure he's constrained from responding to the needs themselves. Human rights and all that are secondary to Tibetan rights, and adherence to the faith.
That is exactly how forgive them father morphed into the auto-da-fé.
Innomen 11 months ago
@Innomen About my assertion that the Dalai Lama not wanting a return to power, I don't think it's absurd at all. I mean yes it may be somewhat absurd if I just believed it based on the Dalai Lama merely saying that he does not want to return to power in Tibet, but he's already installed a democratic parliamentary Tibetan-Government-In-Exile parliamentary in Dharamsala, India that governs over the Tibetan's outside of Tibet.
Jigme32 11 months ago
@Innomen In my opinion the PRC will never let the Dalai Lama back into Tibet, he has too much support from the people that it would be too dangerous for them. If the Dalai was allowed back into Tibet and he began to criticize the PRC, the Tibetan people would follow behind him and if the PRC tried to punish the Dalai Lama that would only cause a huge uproar from the Tibetan people.
Jigme32 11 months ago
@Jigme32
They would imprison him immediately. Which is where all the real human rights leaders in china are anyway. And you are right, the backlash would be swift and vehement, which is exactly why he should return. His leaving was a good idea, but it's a different world, his return would accomplish FAR more for his cause than what he does now.
Frankly I'm glad he doesn't, because I don't want to see yet another Luddite religious state.
Innomen 11 months ago
@Innomen So essentially the way I see it, even if it were the case that the Dalai Lama was saying that he did not want a return to power but in reality was only lying about this - even though this is highly unlikely judging by his has many actions that would suggest otherwise - the Tibetan people already have a taste for democracy and would not stand for it.
Jigme32 11 months ago
@Innomen I somewhat agree with all but your last point. I've already sort of explained why the Dalai Lama does not want a return to a "religious state" in the last few posts, so I won't get into that. But about the "Luddite" statement, I don't even know where that's coming from. As I think I mentioned before, If you read into the history of the Dalai Lama, and even the previous Dalai Lama, they were reformers that actually attempted to bring about modernization in Tibet.
Jigme32 11 months ago
@Jigme32
We need to debate somewhere where we can fully respond to each other.
The actions you mention are superficial and symbolic. He's knowingly perpetuating a conflict that he could end with surrender. His refusal is extremely ironic given much of the faith he claims to be of.
As for Luddism, it's implicit in all ascetic monastic orders.
In my opinion at this point the Buddha would be transhumanist. Google "A Defence Of Paradise-Engineering" it's at hedweb com and net
Innomen 11 months ago
@Jigme32
do you understand what your statement holds? not only is it degrading to other asian countries,some of which i grew up and lived in but this is just utter hipocrisy and ignorance. do your research. certainly the philippines,japan,china and even burma was way ahead of the backwards religious-ran state you all think was all fine and dandy. does dogmatism cover the urge to search and accept the truth?
richardhaw 11 months ago
@richardhaw I think your sort of misunderstanding what I was trying to say. I'm not saying that I agree with Penn & Teller that Tibet was a horrible place but the rest of Asia was no different. I'm saying that Penn and Teller are wrong and that Tibet was not as bad as they describe, but of course Tibet was not a "shangri-la", just like other Asian countries of the time, and even the same could be said of any pre-industrial society for the majority of the population.
Jigme32 11 months ago
@richardhaw Penn & Teller say that there was widespread torture in Tibet and widespread abuse of the majority of the population (i.e the peasant class). However the previous Dalai Lama banned torture in the late 19th century, and there's no scholarly evidence that agrees with the regular use of torture, nor mistreatment of peasants.
Jigme32 11 months ago
@richardhaw If you read about the Tibetan social system of that time and the treatment of the "mi-ser" (peasant) class in Tibet, Tibet was unique in that they had so much land yet not many people. This meant that peasants were that much more valuable to the landowners who needed peasants to work their land. If peasants were mistreated they could simply move elsewhere and if not, there was also a central court of appeal in Lhasa for unlawful treatment of peasants.
Jigme32 11 months ago
@richardhaw In a sense, we have a bias when judging cultures who had social systems we label as "serfdom," since our typical conception of the serf system is from that of medieval Europe and pre-industrial Europe where abuses were prevalent since it was the exact opposite demographic and geographic situation as Tibet (i.e. There a lot more peasants then there were land to cultivate). Thus making peasants less valuable and more prone to abuse or mistreatment from landowners.
Jigme32 11 months ago
@Jigme32
you, sir...should not be making statements that you do not understand or comprehend. not only will you insult other people and their culture but this is a big disservice to you as well. i am too eager to see the dalai lama go,his hipocrisy will not go away with him,but kill the snake by the head as we say. i am not a chinese commy supporter but what the western media is saying is just bull. only stupid and hopelessly romantic people looking for a fantasy fall for the dalai lama
richardhaw 11 months ago
@richardhaw Did you even read what I posted? Apparently not.
Jigme32 11 months ago
@Jigme32 To give Tibet a free pass because everyone else was doing it too is a really bad way of looking at it. Everyone else is doing it is not an excuse to do evil things.
FatherTime89 7 months ago
@Jigme32 the dali lama has also stated several times that he is no longer seeking the liberation of tibet. He just wants to stop the persecution of tibetans. I lost my respect for pen and teller after this episode, a load of opinionated crap as far as i can see while selectively choosing information that supports their argument.
OHHfuckit 7 months ago
@nilbud Have you actually read anything that the Dalai Lama has written? I bet you haven't. You might want to actually read up on buddhism and the Dalai Lama before opening your big, fat, ignorant trap. I am not a buddhist but I have been reading up on the religion as well as the Dalai Lama's books. Frankly he makes more sense than all the snake oil salesmen in Christianity.
eanderson1974 1 year ago
@eanderson1974 You're just an idiot and I couldn't care less what you think about anything. Keep reading your books and half baking your opinions. Life is suffering, if you're a spoiled child.
nilbud 1 year ago
@nilbud In fact he was only carrying out what the previous Dalai Lama had been trying to do in Tibet during his rule which was to modernize Tibet in order to create better infrastructure for the Tibetan people and try to rid of the aristocratic ruling. However the aristocratic were resistant to this change for obvious reasons. Penn also said that there was torture in Tibet the current's Dalai Lama's rule when in fact the previous Dalai Lama had banned torture.
Jigme32 1 year ago
And for my last comment, I urge people to not insult or be angry at these men and their writers, they deserve compassion, as do all sentient beings. Their karma is weighed heavy because of making this episode, and with every view of this video it gets worse. Please do not bring bad karma onto yourself by insulting them, simply feel compassion toward them and the retribution they are due to have because of their negative karma.
PoetFang 1 year ago
@PoetFang You're a gullible shithead and you support the criminal dali lama and his conman act. Have you no shame? You lie about magic and nonsense. Your sad weakness is nothing but a joke to anyone who is sane. Now get back to your menial task.
nilbud 1 year ago
Also, Steven Segal has now been sort of... how to put it... disregarded would be the light way to put it? By Buddhism. He was originally thought to be an authentic reincarnation of a master, but the idea went to his head and he lost sight of what Buddhism is about.
PoetFang 1 year ago
I'm a Vajrayana Buddhist, and all I can say is that I feel sorry for these men and those who did the writing for this, for giving the wrong view of Buddhist brings on immensely bad karma. Hey, maybe that's why no one knows who they are anymore. Any "wealth" the dalai lama had was through donations. Tibet was a religious country, and felt that making offerings would help themselves. The amount the monks have doesn't show the greediness of the monks, but the devotedness of the people.
PoetFang 1 year ago
I always knew this whole "Free Tibet" thing was a bunch of Bullshit.
monicavictor82 1 year ago
@monicavictor82 Activism in regards to Tibet is not a load of nonsense. They have a point about religious hypocrisy, but in regards to the actions of the Chinese and the history of it, check out a documentary called "Cry of the Snow Lion".
Neanderthalcouzin 1 year ago
no matter what you say, Mother Theresa, Gandhi, and The Dalai Lama are not assholes. The Dalai lama does not condone slavery.
ruderevival 1 year ago
@ruderevival You seriously need to base your arguments off of evidence. "No matter what you say . . ." is seriously close-minded and detrimental to the development of the human mind.
monicavictor82 1 year ago
@ruderevival you moron
FIGHTFANNERD3 1 year ago
@FIGHTFANNERD3 how am i a moron
ruderevival 1 year ago
they are very loud....
NoUseForAName06 1 year ago
@3:10. He equates squalor and the condoning of slavery to a set of heavy shackles. But for labor camps and prisons, he uses 2
lightweight padlocks (that weigh a little more than a bunch of human eyeballs).
This is a total farce. There is no objectivity in this method of pseudo measurement. Qauntifying oppression using a single shackle and two padlocks is extremely absurd.
cynic2005 1 year ago
Comment removed
cynic2005 1 year ago