sheikh hamza yusuf about marriage in islam (123channels.com).wmv

[fredfelosofar]

May Allah bless Hamza Yusuf in this life and in the hereafter with his family and friends.

[Ramita76]

@fredfelosofar Ameen ya rabb.

[dooli1981]

@THEISMisIRRATIONAL: It's not even a difference in culture but more in reality of life. Even 100 years ago life was harsher thn today & teenage years was a luxury that ddnt exist. U were a child & then an adult. If a "girl" starts her period at 9/10/11 then she is capable of bearing children whether mentally capable is anther matter. Muhammed being a pedophile is a new attack on his character & wasnt issue 4 Orientalists 100 years+ ago. Reason: "child" marriages were practised in Europe also.

[THEISMisIRRATIONAL]

@dooli1981 The difference is that Muhammad is said by Muslims to be a holy prophet. Raping children debunks claims to holiness. You can't have it both ways, either he was holy prophet with advanced morality (meaning he should've known better) or a barbaric product of his day.

[dooli1981]

@THEISMisIRRATIONAL: Ur right rape wld debunk claims 2 holiness. Pls produce evidence that Muhammed raped any1. He ruled over all Arabia & if was a legit pedophile couldve had harem of little girls but ddnt. 1nce girl/boy hit puberty considrd adult no ifs/buts, all over world thru out history & even today in parts. ‘Teenager’ is only a recent invention. Some scholars have resrched & believe Aishah was older thn 9 @ consummation of marriage e.g Ruqaiyyah Waris Maqsood.

[THEISMisIRRATIONAL]

@dooli1981 Sex with children is rape and if that requires explanation then your moral compass needs retuning. The "everybody did it" argument that you're offering works only if you're admitting that he was no different from any other Bronze Age mortal. However, if your claim is that he was a unique holy man of God then we should expect a higher standard of moral behavior than laying pipe to 9 year olds.

[dooli1981]

@THEISMisIRRATIONAL What's ur definition of a child? That might help us in our discussion here.

[THEISMisIRRATIONAL]

@dooli1981 I would define a child as a human being between birth and puberty, generally between the ages of 0-13. What tends to follow from this type of question is that there is no definitive age of adulthood, making pedophilia impossible. However, experience with child development and child psychology demonstrates that 6-9 year olds of any culture or era are still psychologically and biologically childlike and generally experience harm when sexed by 40 year old men.

[dooli1981]

@THEISMisIRRATIONAL: There is a definitive age of adulthood: PUBERTY. The Oxford English dictionary defines a child as 'young human being BELOW the age of PUBERTY'. 1nc puberty hits, child becomes adult, quite simple really. It wld b intrsting 2 read the studies wher u got this gem from: ‘xperience with child development and child psychology demonstrates that 6-9 year olds of any culture or era r still psychologically and biologically childlike’. Nice way 2 back up your case by making stuff up!

[THEISMisIRRATIONAL]

@dooli1981 I'm glad you asked....Please read about Jean Piaget's "Theory of Cognitive Development", specifically Preoperational and Concrete Operational stages. Also, he has a book called "Genetic Epistemology" which studies the epistemic processes in children between 1 month - 12 years old. Another book, "The Moral Judgment of the Child" uses philosophical standards of morality which are universalizable, generalizable, and obligatory. Also, puberty is a process, not simply instant adulthood.

[dooli1981]

@THEISMisIRRATIONAL: Piagets THEORY has been challenged on many grounds. He himself noted tht devlpmnt dsnt alwys progress as smoothly as his theory predicts. Thers also modern neuroscientific resrch tht wsnt available @ his time wen constrctng his theory. A recent challeng 2 his theory is Ecological Systems Theory whch is based on contxtual influences in childs life e.g their family, school, society & the world & how these impact childs development. We r products of r envrnmnts & surroundngs

[THEISMisIRRATIONAL]

@dooli1981 Of course there are challenges to his theory as there are challenges to all theories. Yet, relevant to this conversation, consensus in the field of child psychology/development support Piaget in recognizing 6-9 yr olds as children. Also, Muhammad married Aisha at 6 while she was reportedly still playing with dolls. 6 yr olds playing with dolls = marriage material? In virtually no other context would people of sound mind burn calories splicing words to circumvent clear-cut abuse.