FORGET UR DOCUMENTARIES, THEY ARE FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE TOO LAZY TO READ. TO ALL YOU PEOPLE OUT THERE.. GO TO ISRAEL THEN CROSS THE BORDER INTO PALESTINE.. ITS DAY AND NIGHT.. ISRAEL IS ONE THE MOST MODERN, MOST INTELLECTUAL SOCIETIES IN THE WORLD. ALL THE HATE, ESPEC FROM PEOPLE IN THE USA, YOU ALL SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES. THE AMERICAN LIFE IS EXACTLY LIKE THE ISRAEL LIFE. GO LIVE IN PALESTINE, AND ULL BE CRYING TO CROSS THE BORDER TO ISRAEL.
@akatso Yes, I agree that people should go to palestine and go to the west bank and/or gaza and see what life is like for those people. I guarantee you that anyone who spends some time with palestinians and understands how oppressed and victimized they are will have no trouble coming to the right conclusions.
@almuhairi75 Hating israel can mean many different things. You could be saying you hate jews, or you could be saying you hate israel's treatment of palestinians, or israel's division of the land and separation of jews from their neighbors, etc. You could be saying you hate the people, or the government, or the policies, or whatever.
I really respect people who are open minded like you sir. Especially when you are not from the region and you still try to learn about the situation. Wish there were more people like you.
I really respect people who are open minded like you sir. Especially when you are not from the region and you still try to learn about the situation. Wish there were more people like you.
Lets go back the history. Prophet Jacob his 11 son's sold Joseph slavery to Egypt. Allah condemned Jacobs 11 son's. So, children of Israel is Jacob son's then Hebrews went to Egypt then Moses was born. Allah saved the Hebrews from Pharaohs. Palestine always existed. Holy book Koran says Hebrews disobeyed Moses & Allah then gave the land to Palestine to be become Muslims that will be born. Those who don't accept the Holy Koran you are an Atheist for not believing the truth of Allah. Allah knows.
YOUR kORAN IS A GIHADIST PROPAGANDA which your so called scolars weaven with a lot of hatred toward any infidels including christians and jews. who is practiced massacres through its history/ your rreligion is built on inciting the lay people who cannot think for themselves. even in your Korran there is a sura which tells that ISRAELl will retern to HIS land. YOU ARE THE BEST IN STEALING AND LYING FROM YOUR VERY BEGINNING. .
@km110267 That makes no sense, islam did not exist thousands of years ago, and up until recently, muslims and jews got along a whole lot better than jews and christians, in fact, when the zionist project started there were already jews in palestine.
the name Palestine is LATIN. it replaced the name Judea which means the land of jews . the Romans did that in the year 135. you really need to learn history from anciet days to find out the truth.there is no P in the Arabic language. So even this nae is a sham by the Arabs who invevted for themselves a new identity.JEWS RIGHTFULLY COULD SAY THAT THEY LIVED IN PALESTINE, A LAND, NOT A STATE, PART OF THE OTHOMAN EMPIRE UNTIL THE END OF WWI. as arabs lived in this land.
THERE ARE SOURCES OF general census which took place by the british reaserchersin the 19 century. there were few arabs in the land. WHEN JEWS CAME BACK TO THIER HOMELND A FLOW OF ARAB IMMIGRENTS CAME TO THE LAND CALLED PALESTINE. THIS NAME ADOPTED AS AN IDEDTITY JUST AFTER 67 WAR. THE REAL PROBLEM TO THE WESTERNS IS THE PROPAGANDA THAT USED BY ARABS. ALL THEY WANT IS THE DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL USING ALL TOOLS TO CREATE A HATRAED AGAINST ISRAEL.
@DO YOU KNOW THAT THE ARABS WHO WERE NOT FLED IN 48 ENJOY DEMOCRATIC RIGHTS AS JEWS ?
ONE OF THE NAZI CRIMINALS SAID THAT WHEN YOU MAKE A PROPAGANDA YOU USE THAT BIG LIE SO NO ONE SUSPECTS ITS TRUENESS(GUBBELES IF YOU COMPARE BETWEEN THE ARABS CARTOONS AND THE NAZI'S THERE IS NO DEFERENCE. LEARN REAL HISTORY NOT PROPAGANDA
came to excist is that you confiscate their land by terroristly straight away,thats is the biggest terrorism in the world,hitler kick your zionist asses then y the fuck you people grab their land.Go and fuck the germans.then why any muslims pay the price.why is that.its not a mistries to any one.leave their land and go back to europe and poland.you peoples came from their and confiscate the holy land of ORTHODOX and PELESTINIANS this land does not belongs to you fucks.understand.
@kdmirza up till 1948 the only people called Palestinians were Jews, that was what europeans used to refer to jews up until that point, either that or Orientals because Jews are descended from the middle east, and scientists have already proven that the majority of jews in europe are descended from one middle eastern location (This is extensively true for Ashkenazi Jews,) .
@QUINTUSMAXIMUS well my grandma on my dad's side is hungarian, and most of my mom's side is russian, both countries are technically part of eurasia, and the middle east is part of asia, so i would just assume that they'd settle in countries with cultures similar to their own or places big enough so they didn't have to give up their culture at all, or where they'd be less oppressed, etc.
considering this is coming from an american i offer my applause, few would choose to stand up against the right wing lie machine that is fox news and it copatriots and voice these opinions. the land is palestinian and was forcibly split apart by the UN in 1948, its a traversty which is now marked with something akin to genocide against the palestinians.
@clsteele Why be surprised that it comes from an American? If you think that American foreign policy represents Americans, you are -in my opinion- very wrong. America needs to deal with corrupt AIPAC and take parts of their sovereignty back from them. AIPAC is a lobbyist group and american politicians needs to treat them like that (representing foreign interest) but somehow the dual-citizenship members (USA-Israel) tend to take a stand as we are representing america and israel because our inter
@clsteele cont. ests are the same. But never in history have 2 countries have had the same interest and geopolitics. Israel managed to build this power in america because of the cold war where americans really had an interest in Israel, but now its only one-way interest. Americans need to ask themselves what interest do we share? Fact is none and terror on america is a response to their corrupt unfair politics in the middle east, so in fact israel-USA relations do only one thing and that is
@clsteele cont. bringing harm upon the americans both in terms of security and economically. Israel is all about corruption and manipulating, if they dont continue their dirty tactics they will have to face reality and their crimes. In my personal opinion Israel approach politics wrong (duh!) and their "back-clash" that they will face in the future wont be easy. But considering their WMD and in my opinion paranoid thinking we may face a horrible future (all together).
@nothingbutjustice How many accounts you got, tom, I'll block em all in a bout half a second, make me some more to block, racist. This is MY channel, not our channel, I block who and when I want and if I don't even need a reason. You will not highjack my channel to spew lies in support of racism and denial of human rights to people because of their race.
@ToeIn2194 There was a palestine, there was no israel. Don't let facts get in your anti-palestinian way. If you want to call me an antisemite, then go ahead, and while you're at it, prove it. Look through my thousands of comments and find one which is antisemitic. Go ahead, I'll wait, quote me being antisemitic.
There was never a people or state called palestine.Even the word Palestine is Hellenized Hebrew word.That is how ancient Israelis called the non-Semitic Indo-European people. the Kaftors known by their Hebrew name Philistines. p-l-š (Hebrew: פלש) which means to divide, go through, to roll in, cover or invade( source wiki/Philistines) Arab Muslims from the British mandate of Palestine never before 1948 called themselves "palestinians" and they already got a country.Its called Jordan
@Tomislavv2 That's nonsense and irrelevant. It is not up to you to tell palestinians who they are, or whether they exist, that is for them to decide. Palestine did exist, it was a province of the ottoman empire, then a british protectorate. it had it's own unique culture and identity and history, and was mentioned as far back as 1377 in Ibn Khaldun's famous "muqaddimah" or introduction to history. Israel never existed until 1948 in any form, except as a kingdom in a book of myths.
@Tomislavv2 And of course this is completely irrelevant. You can call palestinians whatever you want, call them invaders, or insinuate that they hate people who aren't muslims (Kaffors), but you can never justify abusing people or dispossessing people or discriminating against people because they are the wrong race or religion. I'm sorry, but you can't just march into alabama, claim alabama is not a sovereign country and therefore does not exist, and then claim the homes of alabamans.
I do not call " the Palestinians invaders" I just remind you that the name Palestine has nothing to do with the Arab Muslims.Kafftors, whose land was called by ancient Israelis in Hebrew, Peleset,or in Hellenized Hebrew, Palestine, by Greeks. This people were Aegean, non Semitic people who spoke Indo-European language, and who were annihilated by Assyrians.This people and the Arab Muslims who came as invaders, thousands of years latter, have nothing in common
@Tomislavv2 Irrelevant, you're playing around with words in order to demonize people who you would like to see abused because of their race. Every people has invaded something, you know. It's not as if the ancient arabs (a race, btw, you know, as in "racism") were the only race of people ever to invade anything.
When you are speaking about marching into Alabama are you speaking about Le Moyne brothers and European invasion, or about Israel?
You know what is the difference? Jews had 3 500 years of continues history in the land of Israel, 2000 years of ethnic majority and 1000 years of self rule or statehoods. Europeans, Africans ,Latinos in Albama(including you) have nothing like this.
When you are speaking about abusing people, you probably mean the tens of thousands killed in Syria
@Tomislavv2 Both. Israel is doing exactly what the white settlers did to the native americans. You have no more history in palestine than my ancestors had in america when they came and dispossessed the natives, and just because my ancestors did that hundreds of years ago, that does not mean I have to stand silently and cheer when you do it today. It is not the 1700's or even the 1800's anymore, and we no longer believe that the white man has the absolute right to whatever he wants.
When you are speaking about abusing people, you probably mean the tens of thousands killed in Syria
In Islamic tolerance campaign, or about people amputated and mutilated in Saudi Arabia out of Islamic religion?Or you are speaking about thousands of political opposition hanged in Iran whose corpses were made street decorations? Or in Gaza where the corpses of political opponents used to be draged by cars into city center?
@Tomislavv2 This is more racist hatespeech against arabs and muslims. The government of syria is abusing arab people, the government of iran is abusing persian people, that does not give you the right to abuse arabs or muslims, these are simply more examples of crimes committed against muslims which my government and your government, and most notably YOU, support!
When you are speaking about discrimination (because of wrong religion or race) you probably speaking about the pogroms of Copts every single day in Egypt? or about the exodus of all non Muslims from all middle Eastern countries,except Israel which reduced non Muslims in Syria from 40% of population in the beginning of 20th century to 7% , in Iraq from 15% to 1%, in Lebanon from 80% to 30%
Are you speaking about Nuremberg style laws against non Muslims in Saudi Arabia?
@Tomislavv2 Do not bad mouth egyptians to me, I'm not going to fall for that garbage. The attacks against copts in egypt were carried out by mubarak, as is now well known and documented, as a way to divide and conquer his people. The egyptians have risen up and given their lives for democracy, and they have stood together, copts and muslims, to protect each other. As for your supposed exodus, if it happened it was probably a result of western imperialism and war.
@Tomislavv2 As for saudi arabia, that is a US supported puppet dictatorship. That is not the fault of muslims, or islam, it is again western imperialism. You know, all of your racist hatespeech against muslims is just projection. You are exactly what you claim they are, racist and intolerant of other religions. You claim they hate christians, but every thing that comes out of your mouth is hate against muslims. If you could, you'd kill them exactly the way you claim they kill others.
In the section about discrimination,are you speaking about Arab-Islamic genocide against Sudanese non Muslims which left 3 million people death?(oh, yes I forget this are irrelevant things for you,as they are not done by Jews) or about the daily killings of Christians in Pakistan,or about the dispossession of Cypriot Greek people by Turks? or about 1,5 million Armenians,or about non Muslims being burned alive in Nigeria, or just somehow Muslims are above all this numbers?
@Tomislavv2 It's not irrelevant, it's just a lie on your part. There was no sudanese genocide, it was a war between nomadic peoples and farmers, because of land degradation which left the people without enough land to farm and to graze animals on. They were competing for the land, so they had a brutal civil war. The muslims happened to win, so to you that's genocide. The greeks did not commit genocide against greeks, there was mutual ethnic cleansing and war.
@Tomislavv2 The armenian genocide did happen as far as I know, about 100 YEARS ago, and of course you would pin that on all turkish babies who are born today, because you're a racist who blames people for things their ancestors did, maybe you can kill the entire turkish race to make them pay for their "crimes"? Gee, I wonder what you would call that? Genocide? I don't know about nigeria, I think you're probably making that up, but what is true is that christians burned people for centuries.
@Tomislavv2 Now, if you would like to demonize the quran, I can demonize the bible about 10 times more effectively. If you want to make a laundry list of every crime ever committed by a muslim (or a black person maybe?) as proof that they are subhuman or evil (racism), then I can do the same with any other race or religion on earth and in most cases about 10 or 20 times more effectively. I'm not really interested in having you spam my channel with this type of moronic racism, so you're gone.
@Tomislavv2 Btw, if the christian sudanese had won that war, they would have done the exact same thing and you would have either ignored it or clapped and cheered. When muslims engage in war in any way whatsoever, you call it a genocide, because genocide is exactly what you want for muslims, and of course, your constant accusations of genocide actually cheapen the term. Genocide is not something that you do if you're muslim, it's you know, things like the holocaust.
When you are speaking about dispossession of people, you probably mean over 1 000 000 Jews who were expelled from all Islamo controlled countries from 1948.Who were in some Arab countries collected house by house,killed in thousands in riots from 1940-1967, organized by Islamic rulers and clerics.Whose stolen land was altogether 100 000 square km (4 time the seize of Israel) whose property stolen was 60 time higher than the property lost by Arab Muslims in the war they started
@Tomislavv2 When I speak of dispossession of people, I'm talking about the palestinians that YOU TODAY are pushing out of their homes, and denying the right to return. It's true that some jews were expelled from arab lands, but no one knows the real numbers, so when you say one million you're just lying, and it's an arbitrary number chosen because it's slightly higher than 750,000 which is the number that YOU DISPOSSESSED, but much smaller than the number you would LIKE to see dispossessed.
@Tomislavv2 And once again this is a racist argument. The jews should of course be allowed to return to their homes if they want to, but that has nothing to do with palestinians, who did not evict them and are not responsible for what other arabs might have done 60 years ago. If your neighbor steals your car, you can't say, well, he's black, I'll go and steal a car from another black person and it's a "swap". That's what you're arguing for here and it's racist (surprise surprise).
@nadavcat Sorry to you, but there are facts here. I have read the israeli historians and they concur with what I said. Israel was created through massacres and ethnic cleansing, an ethnic cleansing which continues to this day, and it was perpetrated against palestinians, a group of people which did exist, and did have history in the land of palestine. And palestine DID exist, it was a province of the ottoman empire, then a british protectorate, unlike israel, which never existed until 1948.
@nadavcat It just is true, it makes no difference what I say one way or the other. However, if you want to know the truth, which of course you don't, then all you have to do is what I did -- READ HISTORY. Don't just come on here and tell me I'm wrong because your mental programming says so, that's not going to cut it. Unlike you, I'm interested in the truth and I know the truth.
@nadavcat Because you live there. You have learned the patriotic history they teach in the schools, no doubt, but you haven't learned an objective, impartial version of history. If you want to know the other side, you can read the new historians, particularly Ilan Pappe.
@nadavcat Well, if reading books is programming then I'm certainly programmed, but I do not read passively, I question everything I see and read. You live in israel, you understand israeli society, but that doesn't mean you understand history, or how the other side feels. To understand history you need to read the historians, and to understand the other side you have to go and talk to palestinians in israel, in gaza and the west bank, and in the refugee camps, or at least read what they say.
@nadavcat The Other Side is second class citizens and non-entities in your ethnic nation, and the other side is suffers many times more losses than your side, you do know that right? You know that they killed over 1300 gazans because a few people got killed by rockets during a time when israel was actively waging war on gaza. As for learning why, I'm not so sure about that, if you want to learn why it's astoundingly easy and simple, and it has nothing to do with islam.
@nadavcat Now, what do you learn in school? First of all you study the bible as if it was history, second, you study the history of how zionists came to the desert and made it bloom, how the dirty arabs moved in because they were jealous, how they threatened to throw the jews into the sea, and then israel began "defending itself" from 1948 onward, right? Does that about sum it up?
@nadavcat There is a level of understanding that you just can't get by living in tel aviv and never speaking to palestinians. One time I was sitting with a room full of palestinians, and one guy stood up and said that we should never compare what israel is doing to what germany did, that we have to respect the fact that the holocaust was unique, etc etc. (cont)
@nadavcat I thought that was a pretty reasonable non-controversial thing to say, but then a guy right next to me jumped up and started screaming "they didn't drag my parents to a gas chamber, they dropped the gas chamber on top of them in their beds! They dropped bombs on my parents". He was enraged, not because someone thought the holocaust was a bad thing, or unique, or whatever, but because he felt like someone was saying that his suffering didn't matter as much as the suffering of others.
The moment i heard that you say there was a "palestinian" country with government and borders.. farmers etc i knew you are telling a lie so i closed the video.
please get some history book and start learn right like we do in western countries do not listen to youtube videos and take it as a facts.
this conflict has two sides but and a lot of things to talk about but your way is just wrong and ugly
@eran1i There was a country called palestine, it was a province of the ottoman empire, and I have a map from the turn of the century showing it if you'd like to see. Do you know what did not exist before 1948, and never had existed except as a kingdom in a book of myths? Israel. Of course, all of this talk about what existed and what did not exist is pretty irrelevent, the only relevant thing is the human rights of all humans, including palestinians.
@n8glenn that is false. eran1i is correct. A province is not a country. Palestine was merely a chuck of land, a territory if you will, that was part of the ottoman empire. Palestine was not a self governing state and it did not have self-determination, nor has it ever. And on your second point, once again, false. Israel did exist in ancient history as a self-governing Jewish state known as Judea, and there is plenty of historical documentation to back that up.
@Kopperhead93 Yeah, it existed as a KINGDOM in a book of myths. The bible is not a historical text it is myth, allegory. Palestine was in fact a province of the ottoman empire, it had local government officials, it had history, culture, and identity of it's own. And once again, this is totally irrelevant. You cannot just march into alabama, say "alabama is not a sovereign nation, therefore it does not exist, therefore I will throw alabamans out of their homes and it's cool". That's crazy.
@n8glenn Are you serious? like, for real, are you serious? You think that there doesn't exist any historical evidence for ancient Israel outside of the bible? Do you think that ancient Rome and Ancient Greece are myths too? The existence of an ancient Israel isn't even debated among historians or archeologists. And secondly, I agree with you on your analogy with regard to Alabama. The problem, however, is that this analogy does not describe what happened in Israel very accurately.
@Kopperhead93 Yes, I'm serious. The bible is not a historical document, it is myth and allegory. It's certainly possible that a kingdom existed and the king was soloman or david, but so what? It doesn't mean much, it was just an ancient kingdom, one of many. You know what isn't debated by historians? That palestinians lived in that area for hundreds of years, and yes, that is what happened, palestinians got dispossessed, you can't justify that by making claims that palestine doesn't exist.
@n8glenn I agree that the bible is not a historical document. But the bible is not the only book that documents the existence of ancient Israel. It is well documented in many historical sources and supported by archeology, same as the existence of ancient greece and ancient Rome. Also, I am not trying to justify anything. I am simply correcting your false statement that Palestine existed as a country before the existence of modern Israel.
@Kopperhead93 That depends on how you define "country". If palestine was not a country, then certainly the ancient kingdom of david (if it existed) wasn't either. Palestine did exist as a concept for quite a long time. It was mentioned in Ibn Khaldun's "Muqaddimah" or Introduction to History in 1377. It was a province of the ottoman empire and then a british protectorate. It had borders, local government, towns, cultural identity, history, etc.
@eran1i Of course, it you don't believe that palestine and therefore palestinians actually exist, then read the new israeli historians, they'll spell it out for you and put it in perspective.
@eran1i The israeli historians have mentioned palestinians, as a matter of fact, ilan pappe talked about the history of palestine quite a bit, he wrote a book about it, and I read that book more than once. Do you know who never had a country before 1948? Israelis. Israel never existed before 1948 except as a kingdom in a book of myths. Palestine did exist, it was a province of the ottoman empire, then a british protectorate.
But you haven't done anything except call me a liar and I 'm telling you that, as usurper, theif, murderers of my people you think we should feel so privledged that we are given citizenship and charity we should say 'Thank you Master'. After all, you Germans are The Master Race, aren't you. Did you remember to tell the Arabs that they don't fit the Master Race profile and, after they get rid of Jews for you, you' will have to do them next. Stll sly, scheming, deceitful; are the furnaces ready?
@THESHOMROM Ok, explain to me how many people I have murdered or usurped? I don't mean MY RACE, I mean ME. How many people have I PERSONALLY murdered? How many people have I PERSONALLY pushed off of their land? If you want to accuse me of these things I think you should back them up with facts, about ME, not about MY RACE.
@THESHOMROM You know that palestinians are right now being pushed out of their homes, you know that they are being victimized exactly the same way that native americans were victimized in the past, and you SUPPORT that abuse, murder, theft, racism, etc. Your excuse for this is that you're native american?! Well, congratulations on being born, you racist. Yeah, right, as if you weren't really a white guy from israel. Get the f**k out of here, you are daft if you think this is fooling me.
Right now as we speak, 30,000 Bedouins are being taken of their lands of centuries and being relocated to the slums of West Jerusalem. Another 5,000 Arabs are being left homeless as their houses are being destroyed bulldozed in West Central Jerusalem
You want me to be a fraud, but I'M NOT. I am Native American whether you accept it or not. You are the usurper and pretending to help Arabs in order to advance your hatred for Jews is truly dsingenuous, but it explains much. After all, the Mufti of Jerusalem, long before Israel came to be, spent WWII in Germany with Hitler planning the extermination of Jews. The Mufti was to exterminate the Jews from Arab lands while Hitler took care of the Jews living in Europe. Truly diabolic, don't you think?
@THESHOMROM Oh, jesus, you actually blame the ARAB RACE for the holocaust?! You mean because some mufti somewhere knew hitler (he didn't plan the holocaust, that's just propaganda), that means suddenly the Palestinians are all guilty? Again, like me, because of THEIR RACE?! You're just a racist, and of course you're no native american, you're an israeli, and you're spouting the standard israeli propaganda and myths, we both know this.
You are First Nations of North America, yet you use the ambiguous Hebrew word for Sumaria or "as-Samarah" in Arabic as your on-line name? Shomrom is not a word non-semites know. I have NEVER in my life met a First Nation member that did not see their plight as the equal of Arabs in Palestine. You speak of the Mufti of Jerusalam's hatred for Zionism like it is a crime? Remember he is an Arab national appointed by the UK. He had every right to repel Zionists from British Palestine
While you're at it, you usurpers should give Mexicans back the land you stole from them instead of trying to kick them out of their own territory. I see how you can side with the Arabs, you need to justify what you've done to us by supporting people who take after you. Yes, as I said, murder is murder. You don't like me speaking up for myself and my andestors, do you? Too, bad. You Europeans have caused more pain, tears and death than anyone else, ever. Go home and leave behind all you've stolen
@THESHOMROM You're not speaking up for native americans, you're attempting to shut me up so that palestinians can be displaced just like the native americans! You don't want justice, you want injustice, first of all for palestinians, and also for every child in this country who you deem to be the wrong color. Sorry white kids, your house belongs to me because of MY RACE! You seriously think you're fooling me? You think I don't know that you're a fraud?!
@THESHOMROM And of course, you will fail. I will continue to speak out AGAINST ethnic cleansing and genocide, you speak FOR ethnic cleansing and genocide, and then pretend to be a native american, as if that made any sense at all, and you will discredit yourself more than you can possibly imagine, and meanwhile, I'll keep shouting my message out from the rooftops! :)
I AM a Native American and help and reparations is not what I'm asking for. I'm asking you to go back to Germany or Poland or wherever you come from and give us back our land. There is no question about who the rightful owners are here. If you think being treated nicely and giving us money in the amount you think fair for the genocide and slavery you perpetrated on us and the African Americans, than you really are the imperialist hypocrite I believed you to be. Don't want charity, I want justice
@THESHOMROM Then you need to be ASHAMED of your own dishonesty and hypocrisy. You want me to go to germany, and you want palestinians to be murdered and enslaved so that THEIR land can be given to other WHITE PEOPLE LIKE ME from germany?! Yeah, you don't want justice, you want ethnic cleansing. Ethnic cleansing for me, based on my race, and for palestinians, based on their race. You are beneath my contempt. Be ashamed.
Palestinians are ARABS. They are indigenous to the Arabian peninsula.
There are records of the Ottomans tranferring thousands of Muslims from all over the empire into "Palestine" during its last few decades. Aside from a couple of major cities inhabited jointly by Jews, Arabs, Armenians etc, the place was a wasteland, until Jews came to develop the rest of it in the early 20th century.
The Palestinians definitely deserve a country alongside Israel - but lets get our facts straight.
@goldtintedspecs If you want straight facts I suggest you read some israeli historians, like Ilan Pappe for instance. If what you were saying was true, which I highly doubt, it would be totally irrelevant. Ethnic cleansing can not be justified by saying your victims haven't lived in their homes for very long. Palestinians deserve to return to their homes and have all of their human rights honored, including the right to be treated equally and represented equally by the government.
Okay first of all, WHAT? How is it ethnic cleansing when there are Arabs living in Israel as fully equal citizens?
And second, what the Palestinians deserve is, like I said, their own country, but Israel has just as much of a right to exist as Palestine-To-Be. It shouldn't, and can't be, one or the other.
As for facts, if you want to see what Israel looked like before the Jews, look at the West Bank, completely Palestinian-controlled - 2-3 major cities, and a lot of wasted, empty land.
@goldtintedspecs Are you having a laugh?! How exactly are palestinians "fully equal" when it's a jewish state?! How are they equal in the west bank, when they have no status at all and are having their homes bulldozed on top of them, or in gaza, when they are being besieged in a giant ghetto (prison)? Yeah, they're equal exactly like the black schools in the south were "separate but equal"! Remember? Maybe you don't, you don't come from mississippi, I do, I have spoken to you all my life.
Let's get our facts straight INDEED and into historical context. You called the place a wasteland in your 21st century eyes. If you know ME history you know Herzl, a subject of the Habsburg emperor, Franz Josef of the Austria-Hungary Empire, asked the Rabbi of Vienna to go to Palestine and view the land. The Rabbi reported back to Herzl, "The Bride is beautiful, but already takin." So if the head Rabbi of Vienna called it beautiful, that is good enough for me
I'm unfamiliar with this quote, link me pls? I didn't say there was no one there. Your story doesn't mean it was fully inhabited, or that its populace didn't dwell mostly along the shore/in Jerusalem, which is probably all the Rabbi got to see. Most of the land was empty&unused. When Jews started arriving en-masse(1881 onward), the Ottomans, wishing to create a Muslim majority in such a religiously significant area, began enticing its Muslim citizens to settle there for money.
Prior to April 1909 what you are saying is false. Some Jews wanted to buy land, not from Arabs who didn't own it, but from the Turks who did. In those days most nations belonged to Dynasties that ruled them. Palestine was a possession of the Ottoman Dynasty, ruled by Sultan of Turkey, Abdul Hamid II. In law and fact, Palestine along with most of the Middle East and parts of East Europe as well. The people of Palestine were his rightful Subjects
Jewish political migration to Palestine does not even exist until Herzl writes the 1895 German language pamphlet, [The Jewish State] Der Judenstaat. Theodor Herzl was an assimilated Jew and a Budapest-born playwright covering the trial of a Jewish French military officer named Captain Alfred Dreyfus. After Captain Dreyfus was wrongfully convicted of treason to the yells of ‘convict the Jew’ assimilation for Jews into European society wasn't enough.
You say the Sultan paid Arabs to move to Palestine. This is completely false and ‘The Sick Man of Europe’ the Ottoman Dynasty was bankrupted. This is why a consortium put together by the London House of Rothschild, made The Sultan an offer to buy a homeland in Palestine for the Jews. The Sultan of Turkey had HUGE financial woes and there was hope he might consider an offer for a portion of his possession.
Yes Jews did develop the land BUT not with sheqalim from the honest toil of Israeli's; BUT with over $400 BILLION given to Israel as foreign aid from all over the world. Never mind the $200 Billion in military aid Israel got since 1948.
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You say the Ottoman-Turks transferred Muslims to Palestine ???
Are you REALLY serious? Because this is truely a foolish comment.
During the Crimean War, the British Foreign office wanted the Ottoman lands as part of the British Empire. When the Great War broke out, The British Foreign office created a rebellion of Arabs against Turks that would enable England, while fighting Germany, simultaneously to defeat Turkey. Arab forces under the command of Emir Faisal, [son of Sherif Hussein of Mecca] started guerrilla operations against the Ottoman stronghold in Medina.
This allowed Emir Faisal to attack Turkish supply lines and the Hejaz railway. The British and the Bedouins convinced Auda abu Tayi and Howeitat tribes along with irregular troops from a dozen other Al-Magharba tribes, to fight Ottoman sultan Abdul Hamid II and secure lands for His Majesty’s Empire of Britannia. The Arab fighters prevailed and were promised lands in the Ottoman Levant, Mesopotamia, Mecca and Medina.
With the Sultan dead and the Great War over, the Arabs moved into the lands promised by His Majesty’s Empire of Britannia in exchange for blood to defeat Germany & the Ottoman-Turks. Sir Percy Cox authored the Baghdad Treaty and drew the lines of Arab country in the sands of Arabian Desert. The Arabs believed all disputed lands were paid in full many times over, in the currency of Arab, Bedouin and Berber blood and treasure.
I'm sorry, but murderers are murderers, not saints! But while I'm talking about that, what do you have to say about what you Europeans did to my people, American Indians. You came here and killed us, stole our land and then forced us to accept your isolation of us on reservations. If you want to talk about fairness, lets talk about this. My people are still suffering becuse of what you people did to us. How is that not worse than what you 'believe' Jews are doing to Arabs? It is real genicide.
@THESHOMROM If you are native american, which I HIGHLY doubt, and you're here to defend israel, then you just earned my everlasting contempt and scorn. How hypocritical could you possibly get, to complain (rightly) about what my ancestors did to native americans, while attempting to PERPETUATE that abuse for palestinians?! Yeah, murderers are murderers, and guess what? Many times more palestinians have been murdered by israel than vice versa. But you're not so worried about that, huh?
@THESHOMROM As for native americans, maybe you should actually meet one and talk to them (since you're NOT one), I believe they should have equal citizenship with this country (which they have) and they should have as much help and reparations as we can possibly give them, because fair is fair. That does not include ethnic cleansing, or stealing anyone's land because of the color of their skin. Injustice is not rectified through further injustice.
It was called Jordan after Jordan attacked the new UN agreed upon State of Israel. It wasn't called the West Bank until Israel captured it after being attacked again by Jordan in 1967. And they weren't called Palestinians until Arafat decided to create a people he could rule over in the 60's. He tried it in Jordan and they kicked him out along with his terrorists. Even Arab countries consider them barbaric and want nothing to do with them except destroy Israel and kill Jews.
@THESHOMROM I'm not interested on what labels you want to put on land or on human beings. Demonization of palestinians because of their race or religion is not a good excuse for abusing them or denying them their rights, neither is whatever nationality you want to believe in. Palestinians are human beings and must be accorded their basic human rights, and represented equally in the government.
Land in the Middle East did not belong to Arabs. It belonged to The Ottoman Empire. None of those countries existed before the end of WWI. The Turks, yes Turks, lost it when they weren't able to defeat the Allies after siding with Germany In WWI. The Arabs sided with Hitler and lost in WWII. The truth is out there, you're just looking in the wrong place. The Arabs are killing Christians even in Judea and Samaria. That is why so many left. Bethlehem went from 80 to 20% Christian since Oslo (1993)
@THESHOMROM That's just propaganda. Palestinians have been pushed off of their land to create an ethnic sectarian state where people of the wrong race or religion simply don't have human rights. There's no such thing as juea and samaria, it's the occupied west bank, palestinian territory according to the UN, and muslims aren't the ones pushing palestinians off of their land, that would be the IDF and the settlers. THEY are the ones abusing christians.
There is one Jewish State and 22 Arab states. The Arab states combined cover an area about the size of the US. It is a fact that there were almost no Arabs living in this area until Jews started immigrating because it was barren desert and malaria infested swamp. The Jews hired Arabs who began to migrate to the area for jobs had to offer them on land Jews legally purchased. There own say Palestine is a myth created to destroy Jews. And there some crazy Israeli scholars. Consider your sources!
@THESHOMROM First argument is basically saying that arabs have too much land, their race should be alloted less and you should get what they don't deserve. Second argument is basically saying that the arabs didn't take care of their land the way that good white people did so they don't deserve it, well, I doubt that argument will allow you to take possession of your neighbor's car no matter how bad the paint is. Third, palestine is not a myth, and neither are palestinians. They are real.
is there a barren desert with maleria infested swamps?
I know all the war refugee trails from Dachau to the Gulags in Siberia. Iran to Karachi to Suez and North Africa, there is no such place with both entities. My Father had maleria 6 times as a boy and believe me no desert has swamps. You're comments are insane and what century do you claim Jews hired Arabs? I first thought maybe you're a Jew also, but no Jew can be this stupid.
the torah said that the nation of isreal will go into dispora until the find another messiah, these ashkenazi(nazi)imposters go by the laws of the of which they revised using the talmud and the tanakh codes which is a babylonian pagan canonization. them claiming that it is their right to that land through judism is like the american asserting the claim of the US being a christian nation , which is totally false. these zionist jews most are athiest or agnostic &don't believe in the spiritual laws
this dude don't know what he is talking about , one the jews that was in germany that was in the concentration camps was not zionist jews! 150k of the ss officers had jewish decent. hitler wanted to exterminate anybody who spoke polish and actually the russian zionist regime killed more polish ppl than the nazi's. it is not their land, they're japhethites that converted into yuhudism. if hitler wanted genocide against the jews, than why did he tranfer all of their assets to palestine & s.africa
And furthermore, the VAST majority of legal historians say that "Palestinians" mainly can be traced back ONLY from the early 20th century (not even 100 years ago) - from the Mandate period.
@baruchlanda That's not true. Joan peters may say it, but israeli historians for the most part say the exact opposite. It is a well recognized fact, as it was when the zionist project first began, that palestinians have lived in that area since at least biblical times. Ilan Pappe and Shlomo Ben Ami and Avi Shlaim and Shlomo Sand all agree on this. Furthermore, even if palestinians had lived in palestine only one day, ethnic cleansing is still illegal and wrong.
@n8glenn (Part 1) Wrong again. I highly recommend you do a little research. Research "Palestinian People" - it's there for you to see, and is not biased as is a "Palestinian"/Israeli source. It is real DOCUMENTED history. The current "Palestinians" are NOT the biblical Phlishtim. The modern day (Arab) "Palestinians" are/were nomadic people, most of whom came from Jordan, Syria and Lebanon. This was my focus in college, & my second degree. (continued)
@baruchlanda Yeah, I read the real DOCUMENTED history, by ilan pappe, among others, who state that palestinians were living in palestine at the time the zionist movement started, and had been living there for hundreds of years, probably since biblical times, as far as anyone can tell. That is the real history, and it makes no difference at all whether palestinians moved from jordan hundreds of years ago, or what they were called hundreds of years ago, that's all totally irrelevant.
@n8glenn And lastly, how can you call it ethnic cleansing? As Bibi said: claiming that Israel is trying to Judaize Jerusalem is like claiming that America is trying to Americanize Washington or the British Englanizing London. LOL that's laughable.
@baruchlanda Yeah, tell that joke to the UN, which regards east jerusalem as occupied palestinian territory, which it is. There is only one country which never existed in any form before 1948, do you know what it is? Israel. Israel is a new construct, based on an old and outdated idea which just won't fly anymore, and you can just claim jerusalem all you want, you can claim japan too while you're at it, and maybe you can kill all the people who get in your way but you won't get us to approve.
@baruchlanda In fact, to try to argue that ethnic cleansing of palestinians somehow is justifiable based on ancient history is not only wrong, it's bordering on insane.
@n8glenn (Part 2) HOWEVER, the majority of these Arabs are in fact indigenous to this country so they are entitled to the land (I never said they were not) even though the majority emigrated from neighboring Arab states (so did most Jews). That's why there needs to be two states - it won't work any other way. BOTH people lay claim to the land and anyone who says otherwise doesn't know a thing about history. But that will never happen given the current stance of both parties. (continued)
@baruchlanda The black south africans rejected that, mandella famously stated that he did not believe in white states and black states, he believed in democratic states, and I agree. If two states are created, one of those states will be a series of tiny prisons for palestinians, and it will not bring justice or peace to the region. There is absolutely no reason why jews and muslims cannot live together as equals in a democratic state.
@n8glenn (Part 1) LOL you are so full of it & you know it! The "Palestinians" said just one week ago that no Jews will be allowed in a future "Palestinian" state. You use human rights & the UN when you need it...but when it doesn't suit your cause you completely ignore it. And what are you talking about? Have you even been to Israel? I work with Arabs (what you call "Palestinians") on a daily basis - ALL of whom have EQUAL rights as I do. Do you really believe yourself??? LOL! (continued)
@baruchlanda Oh, you mean the PA! That's "the palestinians"? No, that's israel's paid stooge government! No, my friend, you cannot speak for the palestinians and neither can the PA, and suddenly it seems like you agree with me, that having a palestinian state with no jews in it might not be such a good idea! That's exacly why nelson mandela tried to tell you that he didn't believe in white states and black states, he believed in democratic states. Looks like deep down you agree.
@n8glenn What the hell are you talking about? Lie to myself? You sit in front of your computer 6,000 miles away and claim to know the situation. HAHAHA that's funny! I SPEAK with these Arabs every single day. Every day. We have MANY conversations about this. Oh how I would love to prove you wrong. I'd be willing to put up a youtube video just for you. They don't feel different. They feel equal. They are equal. In fact, they receive better benefits than Jews. Who does Israel favor now?
@baruchlanda Yes, you're lying to yourself if you say that jews and arabs are equal in the jewish state. If they're equal, then why the hell is it a jewish state!? According to you, you'd be better off in a secular democracy because the non-jews would stop having special rights in the "jewish state"! Come on, get real. You know better than this, and if you have so many arab friends who feel so special and equal, then put them on, I'd LOVE LOVE LOVE to hear from them!
@n8glenn Dont you know? Israel uses the "Jewish" state card as exactly that...a political card. Don't kid yourself - Arabs have better benefits than I do here. MUCH MUCH better. & if I make a video with a few dozen Arabs will you then agree? Because I'd be MORE than happy to prove you wrong! Also, I'm from America. I've only been in Israel 4 years. But when you have Islam ruling countries (see the neighboring countries as references), separation between church & state won't work. PLAIN & SIMPLE.
@baruchlanda No no no, a jewish state is a state only for jews. It's not just rhetorical or political, it's practical. That's why jews can immigrate to israel and get automatic citizenship, but arabs born in israel who travel abroad are frequently denied return and have their passports ripped up in front of them. You want to prove to me that arabs are equal, then let me speak to your pet arabs myself, and then I can introduce you to arabs and palestinians who will tell you the truth.
@n8glenn Tell that to the majority of Arab states who suppress (physically) the minority religions. Remember, I live here...YOU don't. You just don't know. Did you hear about the mosque attack today in Israel? What did President Peres say? "Everyone has equal rights regardless of religion or nationality." Israel doesn't need to be 100% like America. There are different types of democracies (see the difference between America & Britain). But the bottom line? Israel IS a democracy. (cont)
@baruchlanda You cannot blame the entire arab race for the actions of US sponsored puppet dictatorships, and now I've seen everything, you're going to BRAG to me about the fact that a mosque in israel was just attacked and BURNED?! Are you for real? You're going to tell me that proves that muslims are equal because some guy got on tv and SAID SO?! Come on come on come on! Don't you realize that politicians in mississippi claimed segregation was "separate but equal" all day long?
@n8glenn LOL I just realized I'm speaking with a conspiracy theorist. It's all the U.S.'s fault yet u claim Israel should follow in America's path of democracy? Great logic. Bragging? Don't put words in my mouth. It's not about what 1 or a million people say. It's about the LAWS of the country. Not even YOU can twist that fact - the Arab population of Israel have equal rights. P-E-R-I-O-D. Before u deal with a small issue maybe u should tackle the bigger ones 1st (Saudi Arabia for starters).
@baruchlanda Gee, I wasn't aware that recognizing the well known facts about US foreign policy makes me a "conspiracy theorist". That's funny, the CIA, and many presidential candidates are conspiracy theorists! These are just well known facts you know, the US gives money and arms to all of the arab dictators, which never existed before western powers conquered the ottoman empire and divided it up and CREATED the dictators in the first place. Am I a conspiracy theorist for believing in WWI?
@n8glenn LOL you're twisting the story AGAIN. True the US provides arms to pretty much the entire Middle East but that's not the point. The point is that ALL of these countries with the exception of Israel are not democracies. Shouldn't you be pointing out that in Saudi Arabia women are killed for walking with men? Or that gays are killed in Iran? Or that people are killed in Syria for protesting? Nooo of course you target Israel where everyone, regardless of what you THINK, have equal rights.
@baruchlanda Yeah, what you're saying here is, Hey, don't criticize me for doing wrong, criticize those dirty arabs! Criticize the muslims that we're abusing because your government props up dictators to rule over them and it's their fault! Isn't that right? and again, don't insult my intelligence by saying that palestinians have equal rights in a state they don't even BELONG to.
@n8glenn What are you talking about? ALL Israeli Arabs have something called a Teudat Zehut (Israeli ID card) just like everyone else. How do they not "belong" to the state of Israel? They also have Israeli passports and they get every type of Israeli benefit plus more. They receive breaks on income tax, electricity, gas, property tax, and just about everything else. Insult your intelligence? I don't think you have any when it comes to the Israeli-"Palestinian" conflict.
@baruchlanda Yeah, they have an ID card which says "muslim" or "christian" or "jewish", etc. There's no such thing as just being an "israeli" and you know that. If there was, there would be no "jewish state". Israel is not the state of the people who live within it's borders, it is the state of the jews, period, end of story. Everyone else is discriminated by the nature of the state and in many particular circumstances, like land and immigration rights. Yeah, I know this conflict.
@n8glenn Wrong. They DID have that but apparently you haven't been following up on the news. Recently, the government has decided to end putting religion into your ID card. How do I know? Just THIS WEEK I went to retrieve my new one (with no "Jewish" status). So no, u don't know this conflict. You live thousands of miles away. You hear media reports, THAT'S IT. Then, u choose to look into individual situations (obviously based on "Palestinian" accounts) and then go on to bash Israel. Good job.
@baruchlanda Don't make me laugh, you're telling me I don't know because they just CHANGED the policy from what I just described to cover their tracks?! Come on, that is comical. Listen, my friend, when you remove the "jewish" status from the STATE, instead of from a plastic card, then you come to me and talk, and then, I'll be quite ready praise israel and sing the national anthem with you if you want. Until then, yes, I'll take "palestinian" acocunts, because their views matter.
@n8glenn Why is that comical? So when countries change their stance on something it still doesn't matter to u? Many people here, including myself, have fought for the person's religion to come off their ID card...& it worked. Also, I just want to understand your logic better. Do u think Israel is worse, the same or better than Syria, Lebanon, Iran & Saudi Arabia? Just answer me that. Also, the Arabs have plenty of representation in the Israeli government. The Jews have none in the Arab states.
@baruchlanda It's comical because it doesn't MEAN anything! It does not represent a change of policy it's a change of a label on a plastic card, to cover up the fact that people are catching on and starting to rightly criticize israel because of it's policy of discrimination. Yes, in some ways israel is worse than those countries, in some ways it is better, but that's irrelevant. You cannot excuse crimes by pointing to other people and saying they are criminals too.
@n8glenn What discrimination other than that on their ID cards? And that was just taken away. The Arabs have representatives in the Knesset (2 HUGE political parties - as big as Shas), they have equal opportunity employment, they travel freely just like me, they are checked for bombs at malls JUST AS I AM (as a Jew), they receive more financial assistance and tax breaks than Jews. So what discrimination are you talking about? The West Bank? Sorry but those Arabs don't have Israeli citizenship.
@baruchlanda I'm talking about denying refugees their right to return, while encouraging foreigners to immigrate based on religion, I'm talking about the fact that arabs don't have any REAL political power in israel, most of the land is off limits to them, they can't buy it, 93% I believe, I"m talking about the west bank, where palestinians are ruled by israel but not represented by the government, or gaza, where palestinians are imprisoned by israel with no trial or appeal or parole.
@n8glenn Under the Saudi plan YOU speak of, Israel and the "Palestinians" will find a way to deal with the refugee problem. That means in NEGOTIATIONS. Moreover, as I said before, Israel already offered them to return under the Lausanne Conference. They didn't accept (& would NEVER accept anyway) b/c that will automatically recognize Israel as a state. So the refugee problem is unfortunately irresolvable. (continued)
@baruchlanda The refugee problem is absolutely solvable, all you have to do is give the arabs back their land, which is almost all empty right now. In the few cases where the land isn't empty, you deal with it fairly, on a case by case basis, but at the very least they could be given OTHER land of equal value. It would be easy if they were jews, or if the state was a democratic state instead of a jewish state.
@n8glenn Where are your facts? Most of the land you speak of is already built on. Because we have established a NEED for government, the "Palestinian" government would never accept it b/c that would mean recognition of Israel - apparently something that 70% of "Palestinians" don't want to do. Otherwise they would have accepted it in 48, 49, 82, 00 and 08. All five times were refused. And no - the land is off limits to EVERYONE. Would you like to see a copy of MY contract?
@baruchlanda No, most of the land isn't built on, it's mostly empty. The arab villages, most of them, were in rural areas and there wasn't much demand for that land. It isn't that there's no land or no room, the problem with the refugees is that they're the wrong religion, we both know this. The palestinians do not want to recognize a state that excludes them by it's very nature and they're absolutely right, and btw, since when has israel recognized a palestinian state? Never.
@n8glenn No, most of the land IS built on. Remember I live here. The Arabs left in 1948. It's been 60+ years. You think the land is still open? Have you seen what Israel has done in 60 years? I'm sure a small percentage is still open but NO more than that, that's for sure. Ramla and Lod which is where the vast majority came from are huge cities now. And that's funny - Israel has REPEATEDLY said they are happy to have a "Palestinian" state alongside. That never even came out of the Arabs mouths.
@baruchlanda Nope. Most of the land is NOT built on, particularly the ethnically cleansed palestinian villages, many of them have been destroyed, the traces of them covered up by trees or other camouflage in an attempt to hide them, but that land is empty and could be returned to palestinians, btw, don't bullshit me, I've seen plenty of pictures of this land, the empty villages, the partially covered remains, etc.
@n8glenn What bullshit? Maybe you should look up Ramla and Lod before commenting. How about Haifa? Those were the 3 major cities where they resided. All 3 cities are huge now. LOL trees...and again, if I'm given equal rights and equal opportunity for employment I would live there. Well...I wouldn't b/c Islam is a religion is hate and even in today's time they will massacre the Jews. But if it were Christian? Sure, I'd move there.
@baruchlanda Yeah, some palestinian land has been occupied, most has not, that's what I said. Yes, we'll give you TOTALLY equal rights, just remember that it's the state of black muslims, wherever they may live, the land is for us black muslims, we're REDEEMING it from you savages, but you're equal. And here we go, here's your real agenda, you hate muslims! Islam is not a religion of hate, you are a person of hate. You're motivated by your hatred against muslims.
@n8glenn Then yes I would live there. Equal opportunity and equal employment that's all I need. And sorry for hating Islam when 99% of terrorist attacks are carried out by Muslims and the VAST majority of "moderate" Muslims don't speak out against it. What does that tell you.
@baruchlanda 6% of terrorism in the US is islamic 7% is jewish, vast majority is christian. In EU <1% is islamic, most is left or right wing radicals and separatists, in the middle east, terrorism is only a tiny fraction of the violence, most of which is carried out by the US army, the IDF, and US supported dictators. As for "moderate" muslims, that's a slur, imagine if I started talking about "moderate jews" as if being jewish was bad, and yes, muslims denounce terrorism all the time.
@n8glenn AS for the land being off limits: if Israel wanted the Jews and only the Jews inside, then why can't I as a Jew own my land? It has NOTHING to do with the refugees. The Arabs that live in Jaffa, haifa, Abu Ghosh, Carmiel, Be'er Sheva and all over (the ones that have citizenship) are 100% equal.
@baruchlanda Well, you're ON the land, aren't you? And that makes you a whole lot better than the refugees who were born in palestine and forced out because of their religion. Again, come be equal to me in my black muslim state, the state defined not by geography but ethnicity! You're not one of us but you'll be totally equal!
@baruchlanda As for the land being off limits to everyone, let me just repeat my last statement. The purpose of the state of israel is to "redeem" the land, you know what that means, and so do I, and many more people join us every day. I'm not interested in whether you rent or own, or what your contract looks like because it's irrelevant. We both know that what I'm saying is right because if it wasn't right the refugees would be back in israel right now.
@n8glenn keep telling yourself that Israeli Arabs aren't equal. I'll keep laughing. Also, Israel pulled out of Gaza. There is no more "occupation". The BLOCKADE (which is what you mean) under international law is LEGAL. Would you like a link for that? I'm sure I can find one. Gaza is no longer "ruled by Israel" as you put it. They are ruled by Hamas.
@baruchlanda Laugh while you can. Hey, I'll tell you what, I'm going to create a black muslim state, it will be the state of the black muslims, wherever they may live, and our purpose is to get all the land of the state into the hands of black muslims. Do you want to come and live with me in my black muslim state and be equal to me? You'll be TOTALLY equal to me in MY state, I promise!
@baruchlanda Hamas does not control who goes into or out of gaza, israel does, hamas does not control how much building supplies or food the people of gaza get, israel does, hamas does not control the borders, the sea, or the airspace of gaza, israel does. Do you understand yet, or do you still need to read the definition of "military occupation" under international law?
@n8glenn That is called a blockade. Military occupation is when you are occupying the ACTUAL territory (as is the case in the West Bank...don't confuse the two). The blockade is 100% legal since the territory is governed by an internationally recognized terrorist organization. What happened before 2006? Was there a blockade when Fatah was in power? No.
@baruchlanda No, it's not legal, it's an act of war, and it's by definition a military occupation. Military occupation includes controlling a territory from the air, sea and borders. Sure, you can call hamas all sorts of names, like "terrorist organization", that's just newspeak for the evil enemy, but you can't murder people or enslave them just because you decided to call them names. If "terrorist organization" had any real meaning, every state, every army on earth would fit the definition.
@n8glenn Oh please, stop it! So you're saying the Western armies deliberately target innocent men, women and children like Hamas does? Really??? You're stooping to that level?
@baruchlanda When exactly did hamas target women and children? They no longer do suicide bombing and their rockets are totally unguided and therefore could not target anybody! As for western armies NOT targeting women and children, good grief, do you not realize how comical that is? They constantly target civilians! Their bombs ARE guided, and frequently they're guided into schools, orphanages, mosques, apartment complexes, oh yes, I know, you've called them "terrorists" so it's ok -- right?
Um, FYI, the blockade of Gaza IS legal by international law - the UN posted a statement about it a few months back.
An act of war? Absolutely. Illegal? Not so much. Occupation?
"Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army. The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised."
FORGET UR DOCUMENTARIES, THEY ARE FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE TOO LAZY TO READ. TO ALL YOU PEOPLE OUT THERE.. GO TO ISRAEL THEN CROSS THE BORDER INTO PALESTINE.. ITS DAY AND NIGHT.. ISRAEL IS ONE THE MOST MODERN, MOST INTELLECTUAL SOCIETIES IN THE WORLD. ALL THE HATE, ESPEC FROM PEOPLE IN THE USA, YOU ALL SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES. THE AMERICAN LIFE IS EXACTLY LIKE THE ISRAEL LIFE. GO LIVE IN PALESTINE, AND ULL BE CRYING TO CROSS THE BORDER TO ISRAEL.
akatso 3 days ago
@akatso Yes, I agree that people should go to palestine and go to the west bank and/or gaza and see what life is like for those people. I guarantee you that anyone who spends some time with palestinians and understands how oppressed and victimized they are will have no trouble coming to the right conclusions.
n8glenn 3 days ago
all arabs and all muslims hate israel..not only palestainians.
almuhairi75 1 week ago
@almuhairi75 Hating israel can mean many different things. You could be saying you hate jews, or you could be saying you hate israel's treatment of palestinians, or israel's division of the land and separation of jews from their neighbors, etc. You could be saying you hate the people, or the government, or the policies, or whatever.
n8glenn 1 week ago
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I really respect people who are open minded like you sir. Especially when you are not from the region and you still try to learn about the situation. Wish there were more people like you.
nystagmus 2 weeks ago
I really respect people who are open minded like you sir. Especially when you are not from the region and you still try to learn about the situation. Wish there were more people like you.
nystagmus 2 weeks ago
Lets go back the history. Prophet Jacob his 11 son's sold Joseph slavery to Egypt. Allah condemned Jacobs 11 son's. So, children of Israel is Jacob son's then Hebrews went to Egypt then Moses was born. Allah saved the Hebrews from Pharaohs. Palestine always existed. Holy book Koran says Hebrews disobeyed Moses & Allah then gave the land to Palestine to be become Muslims that will be born. Those who don't accept the Holy Koran you are an Atheist for not believing the truth of Allah. Allah knows.
64Hulya 2 weeks ago
@64Hulya
YOUR kORAN IS A GIHADIST PROPAGANDA which your so called scolars weaven with a lot of hatred toward any infidels including christians and jews. who is practiced massacres through its history/ your rreligion is built on inciting the lay people who cannot think for themselves. even in your Korran there is a sura which tells that ISRAELl will retern to HIS land. YOU ARE THE BEST IN STEALING AND LYING FROM YOUR VERY BEGINNING. .
magygrady 1 week ago
must go back much farther then that.. Try thousands of years ago..
km110267 3 weeks ago
@km110267 That makes no sense, islam did not exist thousands of years ago, and up until recently, muslims and jews got along a whole lot better than jews and christians, in fact, when the zionist project started there were already jews in palestine.
n8glenn 3 weeks ago
for your information Islam was existed for more than 1432 years
SuperCanadian1994 2 weeks ago
@km110267 4000 years is so vague and irrelevant compared to 63 years ago.
nystagmus 2 weeks ago
@km110267
the name Palestine is LATIN. it replaced the name Judea which means the land of jews . the Romans did that in the year 135. you really need to learn history from anciet days to find out the truth.there is no P in the Arabic language. So even this nae is a sham by the Arabs who invevted for themselves a new identity.JEWS RIGHTFULLY COULD SAY THAT THEY LIVED IN PALESTINE, A LAND, NOT A STATE, PART OF THE OTHOMAN EMPIRE UNTIL THE END OF WWI. as arabs lived in this land.
magygrady 1 week ago
@magygrady (THIS IS A CONTINUATION
THERE ARE SOURCES OF general census which took place by the british reaserchersin the 19 century. there were few arabs in the land. WHEN JEWS CAME BACK TO THIER HOMELND A FLOW OF ARAB IMMIGRENTS CAME TO THE LAND CALLED PALESTINE. THIS NAME ADOPTED AS AN IDEDTITY JUST AFTER 67 WAR. THE REAL PROBLEM TO THE WESTERNS IS THE PROPAGANDA THAT USED BY ARABS. ALL THEY WANT IS THE DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL USING ALL TOOLS TO CREATE A HATRAED AGAINST ISRAEL.
magygrady 1 week ago
@DO YOU KNOW THAT THE ARABS WHO WERE NOT FLED IN 48 ENJOY DEMOCRATIC RIGHTS AS JEWS ?
ONE OF THE NAZI CRIMINALS SAID THAT WHEN YOU MAKE A PROPAGANDA YOU USE THAT BIG LIE SO NO ONE SUSPECTS ITS TRUENESS(GUBBELES IF YOU COMPARE BETWEEN THE ARABS CARTOONS AND THE NAZI'S THERE IS NO DEFERENCE. LEARN REAL HISTORY NOT PROPAGANDA
magygrady 1 week ago
came to excist is that you confiscate their land by terroristly straight away,thats is the biggest terrorism in the world,hitler kick your zionist asses then y the fuck you people grab their land.Go and fuck the germans.then why any muslims pay the price.why is that.its not a mistries to any one.leave their land and go back to europe and poland.you peoples came from their and confiscate the holy land of ORTHODOX and PELESTINIANS this land does not belongs to you fucks.understand.
kdmirza 1 month ago
@kdmirza up till 1948 the only people called Palestinians were Jews, that was what europeans used to refer to jews up until that point, either that or Orientals because Jews are descended from the middle east, and scientists have already proven that the majority of jews in europe are descended from one middle eastern location (This is extensively true for Ashkenazi Jews,) .
zitalee2 1 month ago
@zitalee2 Actually, they speculate what you state about the paternal line of European Jews to some extent, but it's not clear with the maternal line.
QUINTUSMAXIMUS 3 weeks ago
@QUINTUSMAXIMUS well my grandma on my dad's side is hungarian, and most of my mom's side is russian, both countries are technically part of eurasia, and the middle east is part of asia, so i would just assume that they'd settle in countries with cultures similar to their own or places big enough so they didn't have to give up their culture at all, or where they'd be less oppressed, etc.
zitalee2 3 weeks ago
considering this is coming from an american i offer my applause, few would choose to stand up against the right wing lie machine that is fox news and it copatriots and voice these opinions. the land is palestinian and was forcibly split apart by the UN in 1948, its a traversty which is now marked with something akin to genocide against the palestinians.
clsteele 2 months ago
@clsteele Why be surprised that it comes from an American? If you think that American foreign policy represents Americans, you are -in my opinion- very wrong. America needs to deal with corrupt AIPAC and take parts of their sovereignty back from them. AIPAC is a lobbyist group and american politicians needs to treat them like that (representing foreign interest) but somehow the dual-citizenship members (USA-Israel) tend to take a stand as we are representing america and israel because our inter
Wassouf10 2 weeks ago
@clsteele cont. ests are the same. But never in history have 2 countries have had the same interest and geopolitics. Israel managed to build this power in america because of the cold war where americans really had an interest in Israel, but now its only one-way interest. Americans need to ask themselves what interest do we share? Fact is none and terror on america is a response to their corrupt unfair politics in the middle east, so in fact israel-USA relations do only one thing and that is
Wassouf10 2 weeks ago
@clsteele cont. bringing harm upon the americans both in terms of security and economically. Israel is all about corruption and manipulating, if they dont continue their dirty tactics they will have to face reality and their crimes. In my personal opinion Israel approach politics wrong (duh!) and their "back-clash" that they will face in the future wont be easy. But considering their WMD and in my opinion paranoid thinking we may face a horrible future (all together).
Wassouf10 2 weeks ago
@nothingbutjustice How many accounts you got, tom, I'll block em all in a bout half a second, make me some more to block, racist. This is MY channel, not our channel, I block who and when I want and if I don't even need a reason. You will not highjack my channel to spew lies in support of racism and denial of human rights to people because of their race.
n8glenn 3 months ago
There was no Palestine,but don't let facts get in your anti semetic way.
ToeIn2194 3 months ago
@ToeIn2194 There was a palestine, there was no israel. Don't let facts get in your anti-palestinian way. If you want to call me an antisemite, then go ahead, and while you're at it, prove it. Look through my thousands of comments and find one which is antisemitic. Go ahead, I'll wait, quote me being antisemitic.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn
There was never a people or state called palestine.Even the word Palestine is Hellenized Hebrew word.That is how ancient Israelis called the non-Semitic Indo-European people. the Kaftors known by their Hebrew name Philistines. p-l-š (Hebrew: פלש) which means to divide, go through, to roll in, cover or invade( source wiki/Philistines) Arab Muslims from the British mandate of Palestine never before 1948 called themselves "palestinians" and they already got a country.Its called Jordan
Tomislavv2 3 months ago
@Tomislavv2 That's nonsense and irrelevant. It is not up to you to tell palestinians who they are, or whether they exist, that is for them to decide. Palestine did exist, it was a province of the ottoman empire, then a british protectorate. it had it's own unique culture and identity and history, and was mentioned as far back as 1377 in Ibn Khaldun's famous "muqaddimah" or introduction to history. Israel never existed until 1948 in any form, except as a kingdom in a book of myths.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@Tomislavv2 And of course this is completely irrelevant. You can call palestinians whatever you want, call them invaders, or insinuate that they hate people who aren't muslims (Kaffors), but you can never justify abusing people or dispossessing people or discriminating against people because they are the wrong race or religion. I'm sorry, but you can't just march into alabama, claim alabama is not a sovereign country and therefore does not exist, and then claim the homes of alabamans.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn
I do not call " the Palestinians invaders" I just remind you that the name Palestine has nothing to do with the Arab Muslims.Kafftors, whose land was called by ancient Israelis in Hebrew, Peleset,or in Hellenized Hebrew, Palestine, by Greeks. This people were Aegean, non Semitic people who spoke Indo-European language, and who were annihilated by Assyrians.This people and the Arab Muslims who came as invaders, thousands of years latter, have nothing in common
p1
Tomislavv2 3 months ago
@Tomislavv2 Irrelevant, you're playing around with words in order to demonize people who you would like to see abused because of their race. Every people has invaded something, you know. It's not as if the ancient arabs (a race, btw, you know, as in "racism") were the only race of people ever to invade anything.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn
When you are speaking about marching into Alabama are you speaking about Le Moyne brothers and European invasion, or about Israel?
You know what is the difference? Jews had 3 500 years of continues history in the land of Israel, 2000 years of ethnic majority and 1000 years of self rule or statehoods. Europeans, Africans ,Latinos in Albama(including you) have nothing like this.
When you are speaking about abusing people, you probably mean the tens of thousands killed in Syria
(part 2)
Tomislavv2 3 months ago
@Tomislavv2 Both. Israel is doing exactly what the white settlers did to the native americans. You have no more history in palestine than my ancestors had in america when they came and dispossessed the natives, and just because my ancestors did that hundreds of years ago, that does not mean I have to stand silently and cheer when you do it today. It is not the 1700's or even the 1800's anymore, and we no longer believe that the white man has the absolute right to whatever he wants.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn
When you are speaking about abusing people, you probably mean the tens of thousands killed in Syria
In Islamic tolerance campaign, or about people amputated and mutilated in Saudi Arabia out of Islamic religion?Or you are speaking about thousands of political opposition hanged in Iran whose corpses were made street decorations? Or in Gaza where the corpses of political opponents used to be draged by cars into city center?
(part 3)
Tomislavv2 3 months ago
@Tomislavv2 This is more racist hatespeech against arabs and muslims. The government of syria is abusing arab people, the government of iran is abusing persian people, that does not give you the right to abuse arabs or muslims, these are simply more examples of crimes committed against muslims which my government and your government, and most notably YOU, support!
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn
When you are speaking about discrimination (because of wrong religion or race) you probably speaking about the pogroms of Copts every single day in Egypt? or about the exodus of all non Muslims from all middle Eastern countries,except Israel which reduced non Muslims in Syria from 40% of population in the beginning of 20th century to 7% , in Iraq from 15% to 1%, in Lebanon from 80% to 30%
Are you speaking about Nuremberg style laws against non Muslims in Saudi Arabia?
(p4)
Tomislavv2 3 months ago
@Tomislavv2 Do not bad mouth egyptians to me, I'm not going to fall for that garbage. The attacks against copts in egypt were carried out by mubarak, as is now well known and documented, as a way to divide and conquer his people. The egyptians have risen up and given their lives for democracy, and they have stood together, copts and muslims, to protect each other. As for your supposed exodus, if it happened it was probably a result of western imperialism and war.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@Tomislavv2 As for saudi arabia, that is a US supported puppet dictatorship. That is not the fault of muslims, or islam, it is again western imperialism. You know, all of your racist hatespeech against muslims is just projection. You are exactly what you claim they are, racist and intolerant of other religions. You claim they hate christians, but every thing that comes out of your mouth is hate against muslims. If you could, you'd kill them exactly the way you claim they kill others.
n8glenn 3 months ago
In the section about discrimination,are you speaking about Arab-Islamic genocide against Sudanese non Muslims which left 3 million people death?(oh, yes I forget this are irrelevant things for you,as they are not done by Jews) or about the daily killings of Christians in Pakistan,or about the dispossession of Cypriot Greek people by Turks? or about 1,5 million Armenians,or about non Muslims being burned alive in Nigeria, or just somehow Muslims are above all this numbers?
p5
Tomislavv2 3 months ago
@Tomislavv2 It's not irrelevant, it's just a lie on your part. There was no sudanese genocide, it was a war between nomadic peoples and farmers, because of land degradation which left the people without enough land to farm and to graze animals on. They were competing for the land, so they had a brutal civil war. The muslims happened to win, so to you that's genocide. The greeks did not commit genocide against greeks, there was mutual ethnic cleansing and war.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@Tomislavv2 The armenian genocide did happen as far as I know, about 100 YEARS ago, and of course you would pin that on all turkish babies who are born today, because you're a racist who blames people for things their ancestors did, maybe you can kill the entire turkish race to make them pay for their "crimes"? Gee, I wonder what you would call that? Genocide? I don't know about nigeria, I think you're probably making that up, but what is true is that christians burned people for centuries.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@Tomislavv2 Now, if you would like to demonize the quran, I can demonize the bible about 10 times more effectively. If you want to make a laundry list of every crime ever committed by a muslim (or a black person maybe?) as proof that they are subhuman or evil (racism), then I can do the same with any other race or religion on earth and in most cases about 10 or 20 times more effectively. I'm not really interested in having you spam my channel with this type of moronic racism, so you're gone.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@Tomislavv2 Btw, if the christian sudanese had won that war, they would have done the exact same thing and you would have either ignored it or clapped and cheered. When muslims engage in war in any way whatsoever, you call it a genocide, because genocide is exactly what you want for muslims, and of course, your constant accusations of genocide actually cheapen the term. Genocide is not something that you do if you're muslim, it's you know, things like the holocaust.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn
When you are speaking about dispossession of people, you probably mean over 1 000 000 Jews who were expelled from all Islamo controlled countries from 1948.Who were in some Arab countries collected house by house,killed in thousands in riots from 1940-1967, organized by Islamic rulers and clerics.Whose stolen land was altogether 100 000 square km (4 time the seize of Israel) whose property stolen was 60 time higher than the property lost by Arab Muslims in the war they started
p6
Tomislavv2 3 months ago
@Tomislavv2 When I speak of dispossession of people, I'm talking about the palestinians that YOU TODAY are pushing out of their homes, and denying the right to return. It's true that some jews were expelled from arab lands, but no one knows the real numbers, so when you say one million you're just lying, and it's an arbitrary number chosen because it's slightly higher than 750,000 which is the number that YOU DISPOSSESSED, but much smaller than the number you would LIKE to see dispossessed.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@Tomislavv2 And once again this is a racist argument. The jews should of course be allowed to return to their homes if they want to, but that has nothing to do with palestinians, who did not evict them and are not responsible for what other arabs might have done 60 years ago. If your neighbor steals your car, you can't say, well, he's black, I'll go and steal a car from another black person and it's a "swap". That's what you're arguing for here and it's racist (surprise surprise).
n8glenn 3 months ago
My answer to u is in your inbox.
nadavcat 3 months ago
Everything being said is based on twisted history.
No facts Here.
Sorry.
nadavcat 3 months ago
@nadavcat Sorry to you, but there are facts here. I have read the israeli historians and they concur with what I said. Israel was created through massacres and ethnic cleansing, an ethnic cleansing which continues to this day, and it was perpetrated against palestinians, a group of people which did exist, and did have history in the land of palestine. And palestine DID exist, it was a province of the ottoman empire, then a british protectorate, unlike israel, which never existed until 1948.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn You can say that those are facts forever, It doesn't make it true.
I've had too many arguments with people who choose to listen to people who twist history.
nadavcat 3 months ago
@nadavcat It just is true, it makes no difference what I say one way or the other. However, if you want to know the truth, which of course you don't, then all you have to do is what I did -- READ HISTORY. Don't just come on here and tell me I'm wrong because your mental programming says so, that's not going to cut it. Unlike you, I'm interested in the truth and I know the truth.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn My friend, I LIVE HERE In Israel, what makes you think that I don't know Israel's history ? because I think different then u ?
How can u say to an Israeli that his opinions are mental programmed about his own survival ?
nadavcat 3 months ago
@nadavcat Because you live there. You have learned the patriotic history they teach in the schools, no doubt, but you haven't learned an objective, impartial version of history. If you want to know the other side, you can read the new historians, particularly Ilan Pappe.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn For an Israeli, to know history isn't only reading. we live it.
so you read about some guys who say we stole land and killed and more.
You read what certain others have said man, that's all.
Who is programmed ?
nadavcat 3 months ago
@nadavcat Well, if reading books is programming then I'm certainly programmed, but I do not read passively, I question everything I see and read. You live in israel, you understand israeli society, but that doesn't mean you understand history, or how the other side feels. To understand history you need to read the historians, and to understand the other side you have to go and talk to palestinians in israel, in gaza and the west bank, and in the refugee camps, or at least read what they say.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn You use the words "No Doubt". please tell me, how do you know what we are being tought in our school ?
The "Other side" is killing us daily, so trust me-we try to learn why...
nadavcat 3 months ago
@nadavcat The Other Side is second class citizens and non-entities in your ethnic nation, and the other side is suffers many times more losses than your side, you do know that right? You know that they killed over 1300 gazans because a few people got killed by rockets during a time when israel was actively waging war on gaza. As for learning why, I'm not so sure about that, if you want to learn why it's astoundingly easy and simple, and it has nothing to do with islam.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@nadavcat Now, what do you learn in school? First of all you study the bible as if it was history, second, you study the history of how zionists came to the desert and made it bloom, how the dirty arabs moved in because they were jealous, how they threatened to throw the jews into the sea, and then israel began "defending itself" from 1948 onward, right? Does that about sum it up?
n8glenn 3 months ago
@nadavcat There is a level of understanding that you just can't get by living in tel aviv and never speaking to palestinians. One time I was sitting with a room full of palestinians, and one guy stood up and said that we should never compare what israel is doing to what germany did, that we have to respect the fact that the holocaust was unique, etc etc. (cont)
n8glenn 3 months ago
@nadavcat I thought that was a pretty reasonable non-controversial thing to say, but then a guy right next to me jumped up and started screaming "they didn't drag my parents to a gas chamber, they dropped the gas chamber on top of them in their beds! They dropped bombs on my parents". He was enraged, not because someone thought the holocaust was a bad thing, or unique, or whatever, but because he felt like someone was saying that his suffering didn't matter as much as the suffering of others.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn This Palestinian-Israeli conflict is the most twisted story ever. half the world thinks one thing, the other half thinks the opposite.
All I ask is that u listen to BOTH sides, then decide.
Remember, The truth can be seen very different, well told by certain people.
nadavcat 3 months ago
The moment i heard that you say there was a "palestinian" country with government and borders.. farmers etc i knew you are telling a lie so i closed the video.
please get some history book and start learn right like we do in western countries do not listen to youtube videos and take it as a facts.
this conflict has two sides but and a lot of things to talk about but your way is just wrong and ugly
eran1i 3 months ago
@eran1i There was a country called palestine, it was a province of the ottoman empire, and I have a map from the turn of the century showing it if you'd like to see. Do you know what did not exist before 1948, and never had existed except as a kingdom in a book of myths? Israel. Of course, all of this talk about what existed and what did not exist is pretty irrelevent, the only relevant thing is the human rights of all humans, including palestinians.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn that is false. eran1i is correct. A province is not a country. Palestine was merely a chuck of land, a territory if you will, that was part of the ottoman empire. Palestine was not a self governing state and it did not have self-determination, nor has it ever. And on your second point, once again, false. Israel did exist in ancient history as a self-governing Jewish state known as Judea, and there is plenty of historical documentation to back that up.
Kopperhead93 3 months ago
@Kopperhead93 Yeah, it existed as a KINGDOM in a book of myths. The bible is not a historical text it is myth, allegory. Palestine was in fact a province of the ottoman empire, it had local government officials, it had history, culture, and identity of it's own. And once again, this is totally irrelevant. You cannot just march into alabama, say "alabama is not a sovereign nation, therefore it does not exist, therefore I will throw alabamans out of their homes and it's cool". That's crazy.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn Are you serious? like, for real, are you serious? You think that there doesn't exist any historical evidence for ancient Israel outside of the bible? Do you think that ancient Rome and Ancient Greece are myths too? The existence of an ancient Israel isn't even debated among historians or archeologists. And secondly, I agree with you on your analogy with regard to Alabama. The problem, however, is that this analogy does not describe what happened in Israel very accurately.
Kopperhead93 3 months ago
@Kopperhead93 Yes, I'm serious. The bible is not a historical document, it is myth and allegory. It's certainly possible that a kingdom existed and the king was soloman or david, but so what? It doesn't mean much, it was just an ancient kingdom, one of many. You know what isn't debated by historians? That palestinians lived in that area for hundreds of years, and yes, that is what happened, palestinians got dispossessed, you can't justify that by making claims that palestine doesn't exist.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn I agree that the bible is not a historical document. But the bible is not the only book that documents the existence of ancient Israel. It is well documented in many historical sources and supported by archeology, same as the existence of ancient greece and ancient Rome. Also, I am not trying to justify anything. I am simply correcting your false statement that Palestine existed as a country before the existence of modern Israel.
Kopperhead93 3 months ago
@Kopperhead93 That depends on how you define "country". If palestine was not a country, then certainly the ancient kingdom of david (if it existed) wasn't either. Palestine did exist as a concept for quite a long time. It was mentioned in Ibn Khaldun's "Muqaddimah" or Introduction to History in 1377. It was a province of the ottoman empire and then a british protectorate. It had borders, local government, towns, cultural identity, history, etc.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@eran1i Of course, it you don't believe that palestine and therefore palestinians actually exist, then read the new israeli historians, they'll spell it out for you and put it in perspective.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn phllistines is not the palestinians. read history. palestine got the name from the romans after they conquered cnaan = land of israel.
your not making any sense u know.
the israeli historians never mentioned anything, the palestinians existed since 1967 not before it.
oh and btw they never had a country :)
eran1i 3 months ago
@eran1i The israeli historians have mentioned palestinians, as a matter of fact, ilan pappe talked about the history of palestine quite a bit, he wrote a book about it, and I read that book more than once. Do you know who never had a country before 1948? Israelis. Israel never existed before 1948 except as a kingdom in a book of myths. Palestine did exist, it was a province of the ottoman empire, then a british protectorate.
n8glenn 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@n8glenn So the palestinians had a country ? nope this region called British Mandate of palestine.
before that the turkish controlled that area and before that the romans and the greeks and before that the jews and so much others.
I never heared of a palestinian country other than jordan whos 70% of them are palestinians so give me a break and learn history :)
eran1i 3 months ago
But you haven't done anything except call me a liar and I 'm telling you that, as usurper, theif, murderers of my people you think we should feel so privledged that we are given citizenship and charity we should say 'Thank you Master'. After all, you Germans are The Master Race, aren't you. Did you remember to tell the Arabs that they don't fit the Master Race profile and, after they get rid of Jews for you, you' will have to do them next. Stll sly, scheming, deceitful; are the furnaces ready?
THESHOMROM 3 months ago
@THESHOMROM Ok, explain to me how many people I have murdered or usurped? I don't mean MY RACE, I mean ME. How many people have I PERSONALLY murdered? How many people have I PERSONALLY pushed off of their land? If you want to accuse me of these things I think you should back them up with facts, about ME, not about MY RACE.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@THESHOMROM You know that palestinians are right now being pushed out of their homes, you know that they are being victimized exactly the same way that native americans were victimized in the past, and you SUPPORT that abuse, murder, theft, racism, etc. Your excuse for this is that you're native american?! Well, congratulations on being born, you racist. Yeah, right, as if you weren't really a white guy from israel. Get the f**k out of here, you are daft if you think this is fooling me.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn
Right now as we speak, 30,000 Bedouins are being taken of their lands of centuries and being relocated to the slums of West Jerusalem. Another 5,000 Arabs are being left homeless as their houses are being destroyed bulldozed in West Central Jerusalem
DirtyRatBastards 3 months ago
You want me to be a fraud, but I'M NOT. I am Native American whether you accept it or not. You are the usurper and pretending to help Arabs in order to advance your hatred for Jews is truly dsingenuous, but it explains much. After all, the Mufti of Jerusalem, long before Israel came to be, spent WWII in Germany with Hitler planning the extermination of Jews. The Mufti was to exterminate the Jews from Arab lands while Hitler took care of the Jews living in Europe. Truly diabolic, don't you think?
THESHOMROM 3 months ago
@THESHOMROM Oh, jesus, you actually blame the ARAB RACE for the holocaust?! You mean because some mufti somewhere knew hitler (he didn't plan the holocaust, that's just propaganda), that means suddenly the Palestinians are all guilty? Again, like me, because of THEIR RACE?! You're just a racist, and of course you're no native american, you're an israeli, and you're spouting the standard israeli propaganda and myths, we both know this.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@THESHOMROM
You are First Nations of North America, yet you use the ambiguous Hebrew word for Sumaria or "as-Samarah" in Arabic as your on-line name? Shomrom is not a word non-semites know. I have NEVER in my life met a First Nation member that did not see their plight as the equal of Arabs in Palestine. You speak of the Mufti of Jerusalam's hatred for Zionism like it is a crime? Remember he is an Arab national appointed by the UK. He had every right to repel Zionists from British Palestine
DirtyRatBastards 3 months ago
While you're at it, you usurpers should give Mexicans back the land you stole from them instead of trying to kick them out of their own territory. I see how you can side with the Arabs, you need to justify what you've done to us by supporting people who take after you. Yes, as I said, murder is murder. You don't like me speaking up for myself and my andestors, do you? Too, bad. You Europeans have caused more pain, tears and death than anyone else, ever. Go home and leave behind all you've stolen
THESHOMROM 3 months ago
@THESHOMROM You're not speaking up for native americans, you're attempting to shut me up so that palestinians can be displaced just like the native americans! You don't want justice, you want injustice, first of all for palestinians, and also for every child in this country who you deem to be the wrong color. Sorry white kids, your house belongs to me because of MY RACE! You seriously think you're fooling me? You think I don't know that you're a fraud?!
n8glenn 3 months ago
@THESHOMROM And of course, you will fail. I will continue to speak out AGAINST ethnic cleansing and genocide, you speak FOR ethnic cleansing and genocide, and then pretend to be a native american, as if that made any sense at all, and you will discredit yourself more than you can possibly imagine, and meanwhile, I'll keep shouting my message out from the rooftops! :)
n8glenn 3 months ago
I AM a Native American and help and reparations is not what I'm asking for. I'm asking you to go back to Germany or Poland or wherever you come from and give us back our land. There is no question about who the rightful owners are here. If you think being treated nicely and giving us money in the amount you think fair for the genocide and slavery you perpetrated on us and the African Americans, than you really are the imperialist hypocrite I believed you to be. Don't want charity, I want justice
THESHOMROM 3 months ago
@THESHOMROM Then you need to be ASHAMED of your own dishonesty and hypocrisy. You want me to go to germany, and you want palestinians to be murdered and enslaved so that THEIR land can be given to other WHITE PEOPLE LIKE ME from germany?! Yeah, you don't want justice, you want ethnic cleansing. Ethnic cleansing for me, based on my race, and for palestinians, based on their race. You are beneath my contempt. Be ashamed.
n8glenn 3 months ago
Palestinians are ARABS. They are indigenous to the Arabian peninsula.
There are records of the Ottomans tranferring thousands of Muslims from all over the empire into "Palestine" during its last few decades. Aside from a couple of major cities inhabited jointly by Jews, Arabs, Armenians etc, the place was a wasteland, until Jews came to develop the rest of it in the early 20th century.
The Palestinians definitely deserve a country alongside Israel - but lets get our facts straight.
goldtintedspecs 3 months ago
@goldtintedspecs If you want straight facts I suggest you read some israeli historians, like Ilan Pappe for instance. If what you were saying was true, which I highly doubt, it would be totally irrelevant. Ethnic cleansing can not be justified by saying your victims haven't lived in their homes for very long. Palestinians deserve to return to their homes and have all of their human rights honored, including the right to be treated equally and represented equally by the government.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn
Okay first of all, WHAT? How is it ethnic cleansing when there are Arabs living in Israel as fully equal citizens?
And second, what the Palestinians deserve is, like I said, their own country, but Israel has just as much of a right to exist as Palestine-To-Be. It shouldn't, and can't be, one or the other.
As for facts, if you want to see what Israel looked like before the Jews, look at the West Bank, completely Palestinian-controlled - 2-3 major cities, and a lot of wasted, empty land.
goldtintedspecs 3 months ago
@goldtintedspecs Are you having a laugh?! How exactly are palestinians "fully equal" when it's a jewish state?! How are they equal in the west bank, when they have no status at all and are having their homes bulldozed on top of them, or in gaza, when they are being besieged in a giant ghetto (prison)? Yeah, they're equal exactly like the black schools in the south were "separate but equal"! Remember? Maybe you don't, you don't come from mississippi, I do, I have spoken to you all my life.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@goldtintedspecs
Yes !!
Let's get our facts straight INDEED and into historical context. You called the place a wasteland in your 21st century eyes. If you know ME history you know Herzl, a subject of the Habsburg emperor, Franz Josef of the Austria-Hungary Empire, asked the Rabbi of Vienna to go to Palestine and view the land. The Rabbi reported back to Herzl, "The Bride is beautiful, but already takin." So if the head Rabbi of Vienna called it beautiful, that is good enough for me
DirtyRatBastards 3 months ago
@DirtyRatBastards
I'm unfamiliar with this quote, link me pls? I didn't say there was no one there. Your story doesn't mean it was fully inhabited, or that its populace didn't dwell mostly along the shore/in Jerusalem, which is probably all the Rabbi got to see. Most of the land was empty&unused. When Jews started arriving en-masse(1881 onward), the Ottomans, wishing to create a Muslim majority in such a religiously significant area, began enticing its Muslim citizens to settle there for money.
goldtintedspecs 3 months ago
@goldtintedspecs
1 of 3
Prior to April 1909 what you are saying is false. Some Jews wanted to buy land, not from Arabs who didn't own it, but from the Turks who did. In those days most nations belonged to Dynasties that ruled them. Palestine was a possession of the Ottoman Dynasty, ruled by Sultan of Turkey, Abdul Hamid II. In law and fact, Palestine along with most of the Middle East and parts of East Europe as well. The people of Palestine were his rightful Subjects
DirtyRatBastards 3 months ago
@goldtintedspecs
2 of 3
Jewish political migration to Palestine does not even exist until Herzl writes the 1895 German language pamphlet, [The Jewish State] Der Judenstaat. Theodor Herzl was an assimilated Jew and a Budapest-born playwright covering the trial of a Jewish French military officer named Captain Alfred Dreyfus. After Captain Dreyfus was wrongfully convicted of treason to the yells of ‘convict the Jew’ assimilation for Jews into European society wasn't enough.
DirtyRatBastards 3 months ago
@goldtintedspecs
3 of 3
You say the Sultan paid Arabs to move to Palestine. This is completely false and ‘The Sick Man of Europe’ the Ottoman Dynasty was bankrupted. This is why a consortium put together by the London House of Rothschild, made The Sultan an offer to buy a homeland in Palestine for the Jews. The Sultan of Turkey had HUGE financial woes and there was hope he might consider an offer for a portion of his possession.
DirtyRatBastards 3 months ago
@goldtintedspecs
Yes Jews did develop the land BUT not with sheqalim from the honest toil of Israeli's; BUT with over $400 BILLION given to Israel as foreign aid from all over the world. Never mind the $200 Billion in military aid Israel got since 1948.
-
You say the Ottoman-Turks transferred Muslims to Palestine ???
Are you REALLY serious? Because this is truely a foolish comment.
[see my next POST]
DirtyRatBastards 3 months ago
@goldtintedspecs
1 of 3
Ottoman transfer of Arabs.
During the Crimean War, the British Foreign office wanted the Ottoman lands as part of the British Empire. When the Great War broke out, The British Foreign office created a rebellion of Arabs against Turks that would enable England, while fighting Germany, simultaneously to defeat Turkey. Arab forces under the command of Emir Faisal, [son of Sherif Hussein of Mecca] started guerrilla operations against the Ottoman stronghold in Medina.
DirtyRatBastards 3 months ago
@goldtintedspecs
2 of 3
This allowed Emir Faisal to attack Turkish supply lines and the Hejaz railway. The British and the Bedouins convinced Auda abu Tayi and Howeitat tribes along with irregular troops from a dozen other Al-Magharba tribes, to fight Ottoman sultan Abdul Hamid II and secure lands for His Majesty’s Empire of Britannia. The Arab fighters prevailed and were promised lands in the Ottoman Levant, Mesopotamia, Mecca and Medina.
DirtyRatBastards 3 months ago
@goldtintedspecs
3 of 3
With the Sultan dead and the Great War over, the Arabs moved into the lands promised by His Majesty’s Empire of Britannia in exchange for blood to defeat Germany & the Ottoman-Turks. Sir Percy Cox authored the Baghdad Treaty and drew the lines of Arab country in the sands of Arabian Desert. The Arabs believed all disputed lands were paid in full many times over, in the currency of Arab, Bedouin and Berber blood and treasure.
DirtyRatBastards 3 months ago
I'm sorry, but murderers are murderers, not saints! But while I'm talking about that, what do you have to say about what you Europeans did to my people, American Indians. You came here and killed us, stole our land and then forced us to accept your isolation of us on reservations. If you want to talk about fairness, lets talk about this. My people are still suffering becuse of what you people did to us. How is that not worse than what you 'believe' Jews are doing to Arabs? It is real genicide.
THESHOMROM 3 months ago
@THESHOMROM If you are native american, which I HIGHLY doubt, and you're here to defend israel, then you just earned my everlasting contempt and scorn. How hypocritical could you possibly get, to complain (rightly) about what my ancestors did to native americans, while attempting to PERPETUATE that abuse for palestinians?! Yeah, murderers are murderers, and guess what? Many times more palestinians have been murdered by israel than vice versa. But you're not so worried about that, huh?
n8glenn 3 months ago
@THESHOMROM As for native americans, maybe you should actually meet one and talk to them (since you're NOT one), I believe they should have equal citizenship with this country (which they have) and they should have as much help and reparations as we can possibly give them, because fair is fair. That does not include ethnic cleansing, or stealing anyone's land because of the color of their skin. Injustice is not rectified through further injustice.
n8glenn 3 months ago
It was called Jordan after Jordan attacked the new UN agreed upon State of Israel. It wasn't called the West Bank until Israel captured it after being attacked again by Jordan in 1967. And they weren't called Palestinians until Arafat decided to create a people he could rule over in the 60's. He tried it in Jordan and they kicked him out along with his terrorists. Even Arab countries consider them barbaric and want nothing to do with them except destroy Israel and kill Jews.
THESHOMROM 3 months ago
@THESHOMROM I'm not interested on what labels you want to put on land or on human beings. Demonization of palestinians because of their race or religion is not a good excuse for abusing them or denying them their rights, neither is whatever nationality you want to believe in. Palestinians are human beings and must be accorded their basic human rights, and represented equally in the government.
n8glenn 3 months ago
Land in the Middle East did not belong to Arabs. It belonged to The Ottoman Empire. None of those countries existed before the end of WWI. The Turks, yes Turks, lost it when they weren't able to defeat the Allies after siding with Germany In WWI. The Arabs sided with Hitler and lost in WWII. The truth is out there, you're just looking in the wrong place. The Arabs are killing Christians even in Judea and Samaria. That is why so many left. Bethlehem went from 80 to 20% Christian since Oslo (1993)
THESHOMROM 3 months ago
@THESHOMROM That's just propaganda. Palestinians have been pushed off of their land to create an ethnic sectarian state where people of the wrong race or religion simply don't have human rights. There's no such thing as juea and samaria, it's the occupied west bank, palestinian territory according to the UN, and muslims aren't the ones pushing palestinians off of their land, that would be the IDF and the settlers. THEY are the ones abusing christians.
n8glenn 3 months ago
There is one Jewish State and 22 Arab states. The Arab states combined cover an area about the size of the US. It is a fact that there were almost no Arabs living in this area until Jews started immigrating because it was barren desert and malaria infested swamp. The Jews hired Arabs who began to migrate to the area for jobs had to offer them on land Jews legally purchased. There own say Palestine is a myth created to destroy Jews. And there some crazy Israeli scholars. Consider your sources!
THESHOMROM 3 months ago
@THESHOMROM First argument is basically saying that arabs have too much land, their race should be alloted less and you should get what they don't deserve. Second argument is basically saying that the arabs didn't take care of their land the way that good white people did so they don't deserve it, well, I doubt that argument will allow you to take possession of your neighbor's car no matter how bad the paint is. Third, palestine is not a myth, and neither are palestinians. They are real.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@THESHOMROM
Where on God's good Earth . . .
is there a barren desert with maleria infested swamps?
I know all the war refugee trails from Dachau to the Gulags in Siberia. Iran to Karachi to Suez and North Africa, there is no such place with both entities. My Father had maleria 6 times as a boy and believe me no desert has swamps. You're comments are insane and what century do you claim Jews hired Arabs? I first thought maybe you're a Jew also, but no Jew can be this stupid.
DirtyRatBastards 3 months ago
the torah said that the nation of isreal will go into dispora until the find another messiah, these ashkenazi(nazi)imposters go by the laws of the of which they revised using the talmud and the tanakh codes which is a babylonian pagan canonization. them claiming that it is their right to that land through judism is like the american asserting the claim of the US being a christian nation , which is totally false. these zionist jews most are athiest or agnostic &don't believe in the spiritual laws
MrDuce718 3 months ago
this dude don't know what he is talking about , one the jews that was in germany that was in the concentration camps was not zionist jews! 150k of the ss officers had jewish decent. hitler wanted to exterminate anybody who spoke polish and actually the russian zionist regime killed more polish ppl than the nazi's. it is not their land, they're japhethites that converted into yuhudism. if hitler wanted genocide against the jews, than why did he tranfer all of their assets to palestine & s.africa
MrDuce718 3 months ago
Thanks for the Vid, its very informative
Osmanreich 3 months ago
And furthermore, the VAST majority of legal historians say that "Palestinians" mainly can be traced back ONLY from the early 20th century (not even 100 years ago) - from the Mandate period.
baruchlanda 3 months ago
@baruchlanda That's not true. Joan peters may say it, but israeli historians for the most part say the exact opposite. It is a well recognized fact, as it was when the zionist project first began, that palestinians have lived in that area since at least biblical times. Ilan Pappe and Shlomo Ben Ami and Avi Shlaim and Shlomo Sand all agree on this. Furthermore, even if palestinians had lived in palestine only one day, ethnic cleansing is still illegal and wrong.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn (Part 1) Wrong again. I highly recommend you do a little research. Research "Palestinian People" - it's there for you to see, and is not biased as is a "Palestinian"/Israeli source. It is real DOCUMENTED history. The current "Palestinians" are NOT the biblical Phlishtim. The modern day (Arab) "Palestinians" are/were nomadic people, most of whom came from Jordan, Syria and Lebanon. This was my focus in college, & my second degree. (continued)
baruchlanda 3 months ago
@baruchlanda Yeah, I read the real DOCUMENTED history, by ilan pappe, among others, who state that palestinians were living in palestine at the time the zionist movement started, and had been living there for hundreds of years, probably since biblical times, as far as anyone can tell. That is the real history, and it makes no difference at all whether palestinians moved from jordan hundreds of years ago, or what they were called hundreds of years ago, that's all totally irrelevant.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn And lastly, how can you call it ethnic cleansing? As Bibi said: claiming that Israel is trying to Judaize Jerusalem is like claiming that America is trying to Americanize Washington or the British Englanizing London. LOL that's laughable.
baruchlanda 3 months ago
@baruchlanda Yeah, tell that joke to the UN, which regards east jerusalem as occupied palestinian territory, which it is. There is only one country which never existed in any form before 1948, do you know what it is? Israel. Israel is a new construct, based on an old and outdated idea which just won't fly anymore, and you can just claim jerusalem all you want, you can claim japan too while you're at it, and maybe you can kill all the people who get in your way but you won't get us to approve.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@baruchlanda
Your response is the only thing laughable.
--
To "Judaize" something is to the exclusion of all but Jews.
To "Americanize" something is independent of ethnicity or religion
--
Thank you *baruchlanda for this excellent example of Israeli ethnic cleansing.
DirtyRatBastards 3 months ago
@baruchlanda In fact, to try to argue that ethnic cleansing of palestinians somehow is justifiable based on ancient history is not only wrong, it's bordering on insane.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn (Part 2) HOWEVER, the majority of these Arabs are in fact indigenous to this country so they are entitled to the land (I never said they were not) even though the majority emigrated from neighboring Arab states (so did most Jews). That's why there needs to be two states - it won't work any other way. BOTH people lay claim to the land and anyone who says otherwise doesn't know a thing about history. But that will never happen given the current stance of both parties. (continued)
baruchlanda 3 months ago
@baruchlanda The black south africans rejected that, mandella famously stated that he did not believe in white states and black states, he believed in democratic states, and I agree. If two states are created, one of those states will be a series of tiny prisons for palestinians, and it will not bring justice or peace to the region. There is absolutely no reason why jews and muslims cannot live together as equals in a democratic state.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn (Part 1) LOL you are so full of it & you know it! The "Palestinians" said just one week ago that no Jews will be allowed in a future "Palestinian" state. You use human rights & the UN when you need it...but when it doesn't suit your cause you completely ignore it. And what are you talking about? Have you even been to Israel? I work with Arabs (what you call "Palestinians") on a daily basis - ALL of whom have EQUAL rights as I do. Do you really believe yourself??? LOL! (continued)
baruchlanda 3 months ago
@baruchlanda Oh, you mean the PA! That's "the palestinians"? No, that's israel's paid stooge government! No, my friend, you cannot speak for the palestinians and neither can the PA, and suddenly it seems like you agree with me, that having a palestinian state with no jews in it might not be such a good idea! That's exacly why nelson mandela tried to tell you that he didn't believe in white states and black states, he believed in democratic states. Looks like deep down you agree.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn What the hell are you talking about? Lie to myself? You sit in front of your computer 6,000 miles away and claim to know the situation. HAHAHA that's funny! I SPEAK with these Arabs every single day. Every day. We have MANY conversations about this. Oh how I would love to prove you wrong. I'd be willing to put up a youtube video just for you. They don't feel different. They feel equal. They are equal. In fact, they receive better benefits than Jews. Who does Israel favor now?
baruchlanda 3 months ago
@baruchlanda Yes, you're lying to yourself if you say that jews and arabs are equal in the jewish state. If they're equal, then why the hell is it a jewish state!? According to you, you'd be better off in a secular democracy because the non-jews would stop having special rights in the "jewish state"! Come on, get real. You know better than this, and if you have so many arab friends who feel so special and equal, then put them on, I'd LOVE LOVE LOVE to hear from them!
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn Dont you know? Israel uses the "Jewish" state card as exactly that...a political card. Don't kid yourself - Arabs have better benefits than I do here. MUCH MUCH better. & if I make a video with a few dozen Arabs will you then agree? Because I'd be MORE than happy to prove you wrong! Also, I'm from America. I've only been in Israel 4 years. But when you have Islam ruling countries (see the neighboring countries as references), separation between church & state won't work. PLAIN & SIMPLE.
baruchlanda 3 months ago
@baruchlanda No no no, a jewish state is a state only for jews. It's not just rhetorical or political, it's practical. That's why jews can immigrate to israel and get automatic citizenship, but arabs born in israel who travel abroad are frequently denied return and have their passports ripped up in front of them. You want to prove to me that arabs are equal, then let me speak to your pet arabs myself, and then I can introduce you to arabs and palestinians who will tell you the truth.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn Tell that to the majority of Arab states who suppress (physically) the minority religions. Remember, I live here...YOU don't. You just don't know. Did you hear about the mosque attack today in Israel? What did President Peres say? "Everyone has equal rights regardless of religion or nationality." Israel doesn't need to be 100% like America. There are different types of democracies (see the difference between America & Britain). But the bottom line? Israel IS a democracy. (cont)
baruchlanda 3 months ago
@baruchlanda You cannot blame the entire arab race for the actions of US sponsored puppet dictatorships, and now I've seen everything, you're going to BRAG to me about the fact that a mosque in israel was just attacked and BURNED?! Are you for real? You're going to tell me that proves that muslims are equal because some guy got on tv and SAID SO?! Come on come on come on! Don't you realize that politicians in mississippi claimed segregation was "separate but equal" all day long?
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn LOL I just realized I'm speaking with a conspiracy theorist. It's all the U.S.'s fault yet u claim Israel should follow in America's path of democracy? Great logic. Bragging? Don't put words in my mouth. It's not about what 1 or a million people say. It's about the LAWS of the country. Not even YOU can twist that fact - the Arab population of Israel have equal rights. P-E-R-I-O-D. Before u deal with a small issue maybe u should tackle the bigger ones 1st (Saudi Arabia for starters).
baruchlanda 3 months ago
@baruchlanda Gee, I wasn't aware that recognizing the well known facts about US foreign policy makes me a "conspiracy theorist". That's funny, the CIA, and many presidential candidates are conspiracy theorists! These are just well known facts you know, the US gives money and arms to all of the arab dictators, which never existed before western powers conquered the ottoman empire and divided it up and CREATED the dictators in the first place. Am I a conspiracy theorist for believing in WWI?
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn LOL you're twisting the story AGAIN. True the US provides arms to pretty much the entire Middle East but that's not the point. The point is that ALL of these countries with the exception of Israel are not democracies. Shouldn't you be pointing out that in Saudi Arabia women are killed for walking with men? Or that gays are killed in Iran? Or that people are killed in Syria for protesting? Nooo of course you target Israel where everyone, regardless of what you THINK, have equal rights.
baruchlanda 3 months ago
@baruchlanda Yeah, what you're saying here is, Hey, don't criticize me for doing wrong, criticize those dirty arabs! Criticize the muslims that we're abusing because your government props up dictators to rule over them and it's their fault! Isn't that right? and again, don't insult my intelligence by saying that palestinians have equal rights in a state they don't even BELONG to.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn What are you talking about? ALL Israeli Arabs have something called a Teudat Zehut (Israeli ID card) just like everyone else. How do they not "belong" to the state of Israel? They also have Israeli passports and they get every type of Israeli benefit plus more. They receive breaks on income tax, electricity, gas, property tax, and just about everything else. Insult your intelligence? I don't think you have any when it comes to the Israeli-"Palestinian" conflict.
baruchlanda 3 months ago
@baruchlanda Yeah, they have an ID card which says "muslim" or "christian" or "jewish", etc. There's no such thing as just being an "israeli" and you know that. If there was, there would be no "jewish state". Israel is not the state of the people who live within it's borders, it is the state of the jews, period, end of story. Everyone else is discriminated by the nature of the state and in many particular circumstances, like land and immigration rights. Yeah, I know this conflict.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn Wrong. They DID have that but apparently you haven't been following up on the news. Recently, the government has decided to end putting religion into your ID card. How do I know? Just THIS WEEK I went to retrieve my new one (with no "Jewish" status). So no, u don't know this conflict. You live thousands of miles away. You hear media reports, THAT'S IT. Then, u choose to look into individual situations (obviously based on "Palestinian" accounts) and then go on to bash Israel. Good job.
baruchlanda 3 months ago
@baruchlanda Don't make me laugh, you're telling me I don't know because they just CHANGED the policy from what I just described to cover their tracks?! Come on, that is comical. Listen, my friend, when you remove the "jewish" status from the STATE, instead of from a plastic card, then you come to me and talk, and then, I'll be quite ready praise israel and sing the national anthem with you if you want. Until then, yes, I'll take "palestinian" acocunts, because their views matter.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn Why is that comical? So when countries change their stance on something it still doesn't matter to u? Many people here, including myself, have fought for the person's religion to come off their ID card...& it worked. Also, I just want to understand your logic better. Do u think Israel is worse, the same or better than Syria, Lebanon, Iran & Saudi Arabia? Just answer me that. Also, the Arabs have plenty of representation in the Israeli government. The Jews have none in the Arab states.
baruchlanda 3 months ago
@baruchlanda It's comical because it doesn't MEAN anything! It does not represent a change of policy it's a change of a label on a plastic card, to cover up the fact that people are catching on and starting to rightly criticize israel because of it's policy of discrimination. Yes, in some ways israel is worse than those countries, in some ways it is better, but that's irrelevant. You cannot excuse crimes by pointing to other people and saying they are criminals too.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn What discrimination other than that on their ID cards? And that was just taken away. The Arabs have representatives in the Knesset (2 HUGE political parties - as big as Shas), they have equal opportunity employment, they travel freely just like me, they are checked for bombs at malls JUST AS I AM (as a Jew), they receive more financial assistance and tax breaks than Jews. So what discrimination are you talking about? The West Bank? Sorry but those Arabs don't have Israeli citizenship.
baruchlanda 3 months ago
@baruchlanda I'm talking about denying refugees their right to return, while encouraging foreigners to immigrate based on religion, I'm talking about the fact that arabs don't have any REAL political power in israel, most of the land is off limits to them, they can't buy it, 93% I believe, I"m talking about the west bank, where palestinians are ruled by israel but not represented by the government, or gaza, where palestinians are imprisoned by israel with no trial or appeal or parole.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn Under the Saudi plan YOU speak of, Israel and the "Palestinians" will find a way to deal with the refugee problem. That means in NEGOTIATIONS. Moreover, as I said before, Israel already offered them to return under the Lausanne Conference. They didn't accept (& would NEVER accept anyway) b/c that will automatically recognize Israel as a state. So the refugee problem is unfortunately irresolvable. (continued)
baruchlanda 3 months ago
@baruchlanda The refugee problem is absolutely solvable, all you have to do is give the arabs back their land, which is almost all empty right now. In the few cases where the land isn't empty, you deal with it fairly, on a case by case basis, but at the very least they could be given OTHER land of equal value. It would be easy if they were jews, or if the state was a democratic state instead of a jewish state.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn Where are your facts? Most of the land you speak of is already built on. Because we have established a NEED for government, the "Palestinian" government would never accept it b/c that would mean recognition of Israel - apparently something that 70% of "Palestinians" don't want to do. Otherwise they would have accepted it in 48, 49, 82, 00 and 08. All five times were refused. And no - the land is off limits to EVERYONE. Would you like to see a copy of MY contract?
baruchlanda 3 months ago
@baruchlanda No, most of the land isn't built on, it's mostly empty. The arab villages, most of them, were in rural areas and there wasn't much demand for that land. It isn't that there's no land or no room, the problem with the refugees is that they're the wrong religion, we both know this. The palestinians do not want to recognize a state that excludes them by it's very nature and they're absolutely right, and btw, since when has israel recognized a palestinian state? Never.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn No, most of the land IS built on. Remember I live here. The Arabs left in 1948. It's been 60+ years. You think the land is still open? Have you seen what Israel has done in 60 years? I'm sure a small percentage is still open but NO more than that, that's for sure. Ramla and Lod which is where the vast majority came from are huge cities now. And that's funny - Israel has REPEATEDLY said they are happy to have a "Palestinian" state alongside. That never even came out of the Arabs mouths.
baruchlanda 3 months ago
@baruchlanda Nope. Most of the land is NOT built on, particularly the ethnically cleansed palestinian villages, many of them have been destroyed, the traces of them covered up by trees or other camouflage in an attempt to hide them, but that land is empty and could be returned to palestinians, btw, don't bullshit me, I've seen plenty of pictures of this land, the empty villages, the partially covered remains, etc.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn What bullshit? Maybe you should look up Ramla and Lod before commenting. How about Haifa? Those were the 3 major cities where they resided. All 3 cities are huge now. LOL trees...and again, if I'm given equal rights and equal opportunity for employment I would live there. Well...I wouldn't b/c Islam is a religion is hate and even in today's time they will massacre the Jews. But if it were Christian? Sure, I'd move there.
baruchlanda 3 months ago
@baruchlanda Yeah, some palestinian land has been occupied, most has not, that's what I said. Yes, we'll give you TOTALLY equal rights, just remember that it's the state of black muslims, wherever they may live, the land is for us black muslims, we're REDEEMING it from you savages, but you're equal. And here we go, here's your real agenda, you hate muslims! Islam is not a religion of hate, you are a person of hate. You're motivated by your hatred against muslims.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn Then yes I would live there. Equal opportunity and equal employment that's all I need. And sorry for hating Islam when 99% of terrorist attacks are carried out by Muslims and the VAST majority of "moderate" Muslims don't speak out against it. What does that tell you.
baruchlanda 3 months ago
@baruchlanda 6% of terrorism in the US is islamic 7% is jewish, vast majority is christian. In EU <1% is islamic, most is left or right wing radicals and separatists, in the middle east, terrorism is only a tiny fraction of the violence, most of which is carried out by the US army, the IDF, and US supported dictators. As for "moderate" muslims, that's a slur, imagine if I started talking about "moderate jews" as if being jewish was bad, and yes, muslims denounce terrorism all the time.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn AS for the land being off limits: if Israel wanted the Jews and only the Jews inside, then why can't I as a Jew own my land? It has NOTHING to do with the refugees. The Arabs that live in Jaffa, haifa, Abu Ghosh, Carmiel, Be'er Sheva and all over (the ones that have citizenship) are 100% equal.
baruchlanda 3 months ago
@baruchlanda Well, you're ON the land, aren't you? And that makes you a whole lot better than the refugees who were born in palestine and forced out because of their religion. Again, come be equal to me in my black muslim state, the state defined not by geography but ethnicity! You're not one of us but you'll be totally equal!
n8glenn 3 months ago
@baruchlanda As for the land being off limits to everyone, let me just repeat my last statement. The purpose of the state of israel is to "redeem" the land, you know what that means, and so do I, and many more people join us every day. I'm not interested in whether you rent or own, or what your contract looks like because it's irrelevant. We both know that what I'm saying is right because if it wasn't right the refugees would be back in israel right now.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn keep telling yourself that Israeli Arabs aren't equal. I'll keep laughing. Also, Israel pulled out of Gaza. There is no more "occupation". The BLOCKADE (which is what you mean) under international law is LEGAL. Would you like a link for that? I'm sure I can find one. Gaza is no longer "ruled by Israel" as you put it. They are ruled by Hamas.
baruchlanda 3 months ago
@baruchlanda Laugh while you can. Hey, I'll tell you what, I'm going to create a black muslim state, it will be the state of the black muslims, wherever they may live, and our purpose is to get all the land of the state into the hands of black muslims. Do you want to come and live with me in my black muslim state and be equal to me? You'll be TOTALLY equal to me in MY state, I promise!
n8glenn 3 months ago
@baruchlanda Hamas does not control who goes into or out of gaza, israel does, hamas does not control how much building supplies or food the people of gaza get, israel does, hamas does not control the borders, the sea, or the airspace of gaza, israel does. Do you understand yet, or do you still need to read the definition of "military occupation" under international law?
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn That is called a blockade. Military occupation is when you are occupying the ACTUAL territory (as is the case in the West Bank...don't confuse the two). The blockade is 100% legal since the territory is governed by an internationally recognized terrorist organization. What happened before 2006? Was there a blockade when Fatah was in power? No.
baruchlanda 3 months ago
@baruchlanda No, it's not legal, it's an act of war, and it's by definition a military occupation. Military occupation includes controlling a territory from the air, sea and borders. Sure, you can call hamas all sorts of names, like "terrorist organization", that's just newspeak for the evil enemy, but you can't murder people or enslave them just because you decided to call them names. If "terrorist organization" had any real meaning, every state, every army on earth would fit the definition.
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn Oh please, stop it! So you're saying the Western armies deliberately target innocent men, women and children like Hamas does? Really??? You're stooping to that level?
baruchlanda 3 months ago
@baruchlanda When exactly did hamas target women and children? They no longer do suicide bombing and their rockets are totally unguided and therefore could not target anybody! As for western armies NOT targeting women and children, good grief, do you not realize how comical that is? They constantly target civilians! Their bombs ARE guided, and frequently they're guided into schools, orphanages, mosques, apartment complexes, oh yes, I know, you've called them "terrorists" so it's ok -- right?
n8glenn 3 months ago
@n8glenn
Um, FYI, the blockade of Gaza IS legal by international law - the UN posted a statement about it a few months back.
An act of war? Absolutely. Illegal? Not so much. Occupation?
"Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army. The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised."
goldtintedspecs 3 months ago