I perhaps did come off a little angry. but that doesn't make me as you so indearingly put it: a stupid piece of c'''''.
IF you look even closer she does give three small bucks during this short vid, plus her hindlegs doesn't carry any weight. And her ears are not flopping she's moving them!
@Frutticattygirl Her "bucks" looked more like she became confused a few times, as she was very young for this level of competition. Plus her ears were still forward and she had a pleasant expression during them. A horse with this much power in its hind end would give a real buck if it wanted. And if she were completely on the forehand it would be impossible for her to do this movement. No she's not sitting on her haunches as much as is typical, but again, she was young.
To anyone who thinks this looks lovely in any way: You are so ignorant that it should be criminal! this horse was in huge pain, just look at her tail. There are no flies or anything else she'd need to get rid of. And just because the ears are bouncing isn't a sign of relaxation, it's just another sign of tension, unnatual tension. You try to work hard with your head like that for hours and you'd be out of breath pretty quickly and your back would be very tense.
this man is a top class dressage rider, and there's people in youtube comments that think they know better? obviously he knows his stuff to have been where he's been. haha who do people think they are...
people the horse is happy? look at her body language! trust me if that horse wasn't happy that rider would not have stayed on for as long as he has over the years till she died.
I belive those who says "lovely" also laugh like the people in the video every time the horse is trying to tell something is wrong. That is at any rate cruel.
Blue Hors Matine had to be put down. Collected movements should be trained in short amounts of time. Continuous warmup is a waste of tendon and muscle, leads to injury. Practice ballet yourself and feel the pain.Working in collection should be brief especially in warm-up! Hands in mouth, spurs in sides, elevated aids, I just hate to see it! Cruel Cruel Cruel
@AnamCaraDressage my horses ears flop all the time when he is being ridden no matter what we are doing... I know that he likes doing what hes doing because if he didnt he wouldnt do it, he has proved to me that! He loves what he does so much that he will go and do it on his own without someone directing him! Ears flopping and all!!!
I have seem Masters to ride, and also when you look at the Spanish Riding School, or Saumur - do you see any of THIS???? The spurs, the stiffness, the choppy gaits... I follow the classical dressage, competitive dressage has nothing to do with art and beauty......
The average horse weighs well over 1,000 pounds. If they really don't want to do something, they won't do it. Due to the size difference between people and horses, humans cannot "force" a horse to do a piaff. She is doing it because she wants to. I don't see why people don't understand that.
@missymatch123 Why people don't understand that is because it's wrong. Horses are very easy to force to do just about everthing. That's one of the reasons we could use them in war for instance. But I suppose you think the horses wanted to do that too? Imagine a horse trying not to do as the human asks him to. usually the horse wil get whiped or more or less "beaten" until he obeys. This is the fact: the horse would rater do a piaffe then get whipped... (to put it briefly)
@Marixxen2 Horses that show lack of enthusiasm and talent in dressage are not used for it. It is not worth the investment for the owner/trainer. Horses that show the desire and interest in the subject are further trained in it. Same with jumping horses. Horses that don't like jumping, aren't used for jumping. This mare was extremely enthusiastic when she performed, which is why she was so pleasant to watch. She loved her job,I could care less for your agreement. I am entitled to my own opinion.
@missymatch123 If this horse was so extremely enthusiastic when she performed, why is her tale turning all the time? everbody knows that's a sign of uncomfort. Why does it do a little buck at 1:18? Why is it tense all through it's neck and back and having more weight on it's fronlegs than hindquarters? I don't se a horse working freely when the spurs in it's side every step it takes... if this is what you call "love her job" then, yes, I really disagree.
She was a fantastic horse, but she is on the forehand the entire time.... There is a lot of spur and she was just taught to lift her legs, not to transfer her weight onto the haunches. Nobody is perfect, but he could do much better than this, really! She is giving everything and is just getting the spur... she seems forced....
@deeallen2 wrong i read where someone said he was mistreating her and training her poorly and she was tense! she wasn't being mistreated or trained poorly and she wasn't tense!
tail swishing can also be a sighn of being happy with work. you never know. it could be nervous... but deffinetly not tense because her mouth isnt open and her neck and back are totaly relaxed... everyone should stop thinking that every great rider uses Rolkur and every horse that has something different about it thinking that the rider makes them that way or are abused in some way. If you dont see it with your own two eyes your self... you should all just stfu cause you sound soo stupid..
And to the person who said the horse "has to know who is the boss", I suggest reading the FEI rules Article 416 on submission. Submission is not subordination. As to the happy horse comment, please also check Article 416 it says:" Putting out the tongue, keeping it above the bit or drawing it up
altogether, as well as grinding the teeth or agitation of the tail, are mostly
signs of nervousness, tension or resistance on the part of the horse" Happy? Not.
@TheProudHorsePR she was happy! she swings her tail to the music! her tongue was not over the bit and tongue going in and out shows that she is paying attention! and look how relaxed her topline is! not one sign of nervousness, tension, or resistance from her!
This mare was enjoying herself? This is collection? Really? The rules have not changed yet when a poll low, croup high, tense piaffe represents either collection or a happy athlete. This kind of training may explain why the horse broke down.
Wow ... i wonder how many of people who critisise these riders have ever actually trained a horse to Grand Prix????? hmm my guess would be ZERO. If you cant do it yourself then you have no place in saying how it should be done, and i think the horse looks quite content in its work, as for the small buck, well.... so much power has to go somewhere
@RoadRun83 u train grand prix and see wat goes on! he loved her soooooooo much! he would never harm her! she is THE best dressage horse ever! she has had terrific training!
Sounds like a lot of jealousy around here.. Andreas and Matine are extremely talented both of them. You can't hope to reach that level, but just live with it instead of slagging them off. And the horse is happy. She's always dancing and has her ears forward :)..
No one of you knows Andreas, so shut up if you don´t like his ridingstyle. I´m from Denmark, and I have seen Andreas ride a lot of time, and if any of you know just a little bit about proff. riding then you should know that the horses need to know whoes the boss, and how to do the things.
I´m sorry if I sound stupid in my english. as said before, I´m from Denmark..
And again Matiné, rest in peace! We loved/love you!
Excuse me everyone, im sure we'd all appriciate it if everyoe stopped slagging off matine and andreas!!!!! If you lot are "in" then you'd all know Matine was put down the other day due to a broken leg from her pasture - so please, for her sake, let her rest in Peace. We love you matine!!! x
That would be to engage her hind end and keep her in that state of collection. You should watch what he is doing to learn, not criticize it. That mare wasn't even upset, her ears were flopping not back, she is not angry at all, more like thoroughly enjoying her job. Sadly she was euthanized today.
i know he wasnt using them together, just seperately you have to push them forward again to keep the collection and if he doesnt react to your leg you kick them once and leave it he was doing great idk what is wrong with some people shuld just get over it i totally agree with you
e praise those that are in the arena -- this horse is not happy -- swishing tail. This horse isn't light in hand nor is this horse completely through the back. Sorry not my idea of dressage. Too fast and too much hand and leg.
That is such crap. She is happy, look at her! Her ears are flopping around and she looks to be comfortable in her movement. She isn't being spurred to death and he isnt hanging on her mouth.
you are absolutely right! it´s a pitty all those people talking bad instead of learning riding themselves. i would be happy to have a horse like this and i would be happy if i could ride like this.
And both tail swishing and bit chomping can be good or bad depending on the other things the horse is doing, don't judge by just one. :) Remember that the tail and head indicate the smallest feelings the horse is having while the body itself indicates the strongest emotions.
Also, she isn't hyperflexing. ^^ Look at the angle of her head and you'll see her face is perpendicular to the ground, exactly where it should be. Her buck more means 'I don't want to go forward! I want to piaffe!'
Absolutely LOVE this horse...it's a shame she inured herself coming off the trailer. D:
And to everyone who's saying how she doesn't enjoy this and how she's so uncomfortable...LOOK AT HER EARS. Her whole topline is completely relaxed so much so that her ears are bouncing when she does. If anyone has ever ridden a horse that is that loose, you know what I'm talking about. If you watch Matine in other videos you would realize how much she absolutely LOVES this movement.
@Techieness horse ears are not supposed to flap when being ridden... they are supposed to be turned back a little, listening to the rider. This ear flapping is a sign of absolute submission of the horse where he just does his stuff like a machine ...it looks like mechanical trick training - I am not perfect but I don't see any harmony or happiness in this...
@AnamCaraDressage Ear flapping is a sign of a horse being relaxed actually. Every horse is different. So I don't see how anyone can sit here and say "oh she hates it" Because NONE of you(including me) know how she is. Example, Judgement ridden by Beezie Madden is often seen jumping with his ears pinned back. That doesn't mean he hates jumping. If he hated it he would not do it, along with Blue Hors Matine.
@Techieness Relaxed? you don't know what you are talking about. this horse is so forced on it's forhead she strains her neck for every step she takes. Can't you se that? She not collected from behind at all. No weight on the hindquaters - which is moste of the point, because a tru relaxed horse will then freely be on the vertical line as wel then.
Couldn't add it on..a lot of horses do tail swish during advanced m/ments. But, did we see the signal strength match the response strength - she seemed to be trying her heart out?
Great debate! Aids work on pressure/release (negative reinforcement)Tail swishing, IS a 'conflict(stress) behaviour' with a varied aetiology. Eg, two or more opposing pressures applied simultaneously OR the horses legs not under stimulus control, or if the seat is used to stop/turn, etc, before consolidating pressure-release responses. Sorry, but a HABIT is not arbitrary. It's a learnt response to conserve mental processing which can hinder learning so not good!!
Ahhh everyone. Don't pay any attention to those people who are picking this video apart. Anyone with any amount of experience can appreciate this quality for what it is.
Those who are posting stuff about tail swishing and bit chomping obviously know very little about equine behaviour. Mouthing the bit is a GOOD thing, tail swishing can be excitement or just habit, and even the best horses throw in a buck every now and then.
Don't pretend to know more than you do. It makes you look silly.
Great debate! Aids work on pressure/release (negative reinforcement) Tail swishing, IS a 'conflict(stress) behaviour with a varied aetiology. Eg, two or more opposing pressures applied simultaneously OR the horses legs not under stimulus control, or if the seat is used to stop/turn, etc, before consolidating pressure-release responses. Sorry, but a HABIT is not arbitrary. It's a learnt response to conserve mental processing which can hinder learning so not good!!
I am sorry but if you criticise others you have to be open to it yourself. From your comments you clearly have not read ethological research about equine behaviour (previous posting). Indeed, using the word 'habit' to lessen the significance of the horse's behaviour shows a superficial understanding. Read a bit more!
I completely agree! It specifies in the USDF rulebook that the horse should be mouthing and chewing the bit softly. People who think that chewing is a bad thing are probably used to seeing horses with crank nosebands and too-tight flashs that prevent them from mouthing like they should!
She does look a little tense here but she is a horse, people, with a mind of her own and he is maybe trying to work through some of these tension issues in the schooling ring. Give them a break! No horse is perfect and I have seen examples of "classically" trained horses that look pretty hollow and unconnected to me at times. It is a process, however you approach it and nobody can have perfection at all times.
Does no one see the crow hop, The head bobbing, the tension throughout the ENTIRE body, the aggressive tail swish, the chomping on the bit, the way she just flings her legs out? There is no grace, no freedom of movement, no calm, happy horse anywhere in this. It's sickening, she could be truly amazing with the right training..this is not it.
wow. is that really what you see? how could you watch this, and see an unhappy horse. and newsflash- mares have attitudes more so than geldings, hence the tail. chomping at the bit- duh. if theres something in a horses mouth they're gonna chomp on it. she doesnt just "fling" her legs out- its called suspension. if you dont see a happy, calm, graceful horse, then you need glasses.
I was sitting in the audience filming this and me and my friend were the only two I could hear that were critical. Everyone else was "blinded" I would say.
The horse has huge mechanics, and they use it. But she is forced on her forehand because of it, her neck is stiff and she's trying her heart out. But it's impossible when the neck is compressed like that.
Can't you see, that it's "all legs" and no collection? But she's really trying...
Luv, go to Walter Zettl's website and look under articles. Check out the article titled "Short and Deep". Actually while you're at it read them all, they should be requirements for anyone who wants to start dressage.
How about no! I dont need to read classical shit, its bad for horses. I have no my own opinion and the "show" piaffe is much better than a "correct" paiffe. Go away you snob.
Hun. You've got your information backwards. Its the CLASSICAL methods that are good for the horse, and the modern,show methods that are RUINING horses. Rulkur anyone? If everyone started liking the "Show" movements, then dressage might as well be saddleseat. Because that is what it's starting to look like.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
No hun, you have it wrong. Classical is going out the door, more and more people are becoming modern and hyperflexion is a great method. Dont talk like you know everything cos its clear that you dont.
Then dressage has become just about the ribbons, and not about the horse.There's a reason why dressage MASTERS are talking about how horrible dressage is now. How can you just completely ignore that? Are they just old fuddy duddies to you?
Don't worry, plenty of people are switching to classical. My trainer rides the upper levels and because of the way competition dressage has become, has decided classical is what's for her. There's still hope, especially with the FEI's statement on hyperflexion.
Look at the still photos of Matine in the other videos. What you guys are arguing about is not over a training method but her way of going. Look at the length of back! It will look hollow because it is long. A long back is a weaker back. The knee and hock action are from her conformation as well. (So is the pacing walk.) The hyperflexion is a reaction to her conformation also. She isn't built like most classical horses from the Iberian Penninsula, so I doubt she could ridden that way either.
"Hyperflexion is a great method" Yeah right... Hyperflexion does the horse no good. It builds up the muscles on the bottom of the neck, which is bad. It traps the horses ariways so that it can't breathe properly, which is bad. The horse gets tensed up, which is bad. There are loads of other reasons why hyperflexion ISN'T a good method. The only reason it works is because the horse can't find anyway out, and with time it just gives up.
...It accepts that riding will always be like that, and that it has to do what it's told. But they aren't relaxed and happy whilst being ridden. They just can't cope mentally anymore, which is why they don't try to fight. In the video you see the rider leaning back and using all his strength to try and pull the horses head down. And you see the horse give a tiny buck, which means as much as 'stop pulling at my mouth, i don't like it and it's hurting'.
Lots of top dressage riders only use it because it's easier to have a horse that accepts everything that you do to it, and make it do, rather than have a horse that questions you and might take longer to train. If you think hyperflexion is good, then you shouldn't be doing riding, as a horse is supposed to be your partner, and not some renewable object that's worth nothing.
...Go and do something else and keep your hands off horses! And if you think that hyperflexion is so good, then walk around with your chin on your chest the whole day - pretty soon your whole body will start hurting, and then you'll know what horses feel like when they're ridden with hyperflexion...
all my comments were supposed to be a reply to Jaccko14!!
Also, thank you to fnyfniken for posting this. It just proves that the tail swishing in competition videos actually does mean something. And this horse is NOT happy.
Gah, what a horrid Piaffe. It's so choppy, ungraceful, combined with the tail swishing and the head bobbing, it's just so sad to watch. That's such an amazing talented horse, who you can tell just keeps trying to please. It's so frustrating to see her ruined by modern dressage. If you want to see beautiful dressage where the horse is actually happy search for Ahlerich. That is what it should look like not this poor confused creature.
The main goal of a piaffe is freedom and suspension. Matine is only 9 and from what i've seen it takes more muscle than a 9 year old has to gracefully do a piaffe that high and suspended. Its an awesome start in my opinion, that will became even better with Andreas CLASSICAL riding style
Exactly. She's NINE years old, not nearly mature mentally or physically to handle Grand Prix movements. And you have to think how early they had to start such a slow maturing breed to already be at that level of training. It just makes it more sickening.
the thing i dont understand that at shows for "normal people" who dont ride at this level you MUST wear a helmet at all times when on a horse, just because you ride at this level shouldnt exclude you form wearing a helmet when warming up, i know they wear bowler hats in the arena when competing, i just think its crap that there's one rule for one lot of people and another rule for the rest. Lovely horss though, always love watching him
@HayleyBug552
I perhaps did come off a little angry. but that doesn't make me as you so indearingly put it: a stupid piece of c'''''.
IF you look even closer she does give three small bucks during this short vid, plus her hindlegs doesn't carry any weight. And her ears are not flopping she's moving them!
Frutticattygirl 3 months ago
@Frutticattygirl Her "bucks" looked more like she became confused a few times, as she was very young for this level of competition. Plus her ears were still forward and she had a pleasant expression during them. A horse with this much power in its hind end would give a real buck if it wanted. And if she were completely on the forehand it would be impossible for her to do this movement. No she's not sitting on her haunches as much as is typical, but again, she was young.
showjumpinluv 1 month ago
aaaw look at her big floppy ears :)
ninilein1505 8 months ago
To anyone who thinks this looks lovely in any way: You are so ignorant that it should be criminal! this horse was in huge pain, just look at her tail. There are no flies or anything else she'd need to get rid of. And just because the ears are bouncing isn't a sign of relaxation, it's just another sign of tension, unnatual tension. You try to work hard with your head like that for hours and you'd be out of breath pretty quickly and your back would be very tense.
Frutticattygirl 9 months ago
this man is a top class dressage rider, and there's people in youtube comments that think they know better? obviously he knows his stuff to have been where he's been. haha who do people think they are...
madddyjane 9 months ago 2
people the horse is happy? look at her body language! trust me if that horse wasn't happy that rider would not have stayed on for as long as he has over the years till she died.
jmaritz328 10 months ago
Some say lovely, some say crule.
I belive those who says "lovely" also laugh like the people in the video every time the horse is trying to tell something is wrong. That is at any rate cruel.
Marixxen2 11 months ago
Blue Hors Matine had to be put down. Collected movements should be trained in short amounts of time. Continuous warmup is a waste of tendon and muscle, leads to injury. Practice ballet yourself and feel the pain.Working in collection should be brief especially in warm-up! Hands in mouth, spurs in sides, elevated aids, I just hate to see it! Cruel Cruel Cruel
gwendiferous 1 year ago
@gwendiferous yeah but not from theese movements brainiac, she broke her leg in her pasture ?
CacatuaAlba 10 months ago
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CacatuaAlba 10 months ago
Lovely
94gunsmoke 1 year ago
@AnamCaraDressage my horses ears flop all the time when he is being ridden no matter what we are doing... I know that he likes doing what hes doing because if he didnt he wouldnt do it, he has proved to me that! He loves what he does so much that he will go and do it on his own without someone directing him! Ears flopping and all!!!
907brlrcr 1 year ago
I have seem Masters to ride, and also when you look at the Spanish Riding School, or Saumur - do you see any of THIS???? The spurs, the stiffness, the choppy gaits... I follow the classical dressage, competitive dressage has nothing to do with art and beauty......
AnamCaraDressage 1 year ago
The average horse weighs well over 1,000 pounds. If they really don't want to do something, they won't do it. Due to the size difference between people and horses, humans cannot "force" a horse to do a piaff. She is doing it because she wants to. I don't see why people don't understand that.
missymatch123 1 year ago
@missymatch123 Why people don't understand that is because it's wrong. Horses are very easy to force to do just about everthing. That's one of the reasons we could use them in war for instance. But I suppose you think the horses wanted to do that too? Imagine a horse trying not to do as the human asks him to. usually the horse wil get whiped or more or less "beaten" until he obeys. This is the fact: the horse would rater do a piaffe then get whipped... (to put it briefly)
Marixxen2 11 months ago
@Marixxen2 Horses that show lack of enthusiasm and talent in dressage are not used for it. It is not worth the investment for the owner/trainer. Horses that show the desire and interest in the subject are further trained in it. Same with jumping horses. Horses that don't like jumping, aren't used for jumping. This mare was extremely enthusiastic when she performed, which is why she was so pleasant to watch. She loved her job,I could care less for your agreement. I am entitled to my own opinion.
missymatch123 5 months ago
@missymatch123 If this horse was so extremely enthusiastic when she performed, why is her tale turning all the time? everbody knows that's a sign of uncomfort. Why does it do a little buck at 1:18? Why is it tense all through it's neck and back and having more weight on it's fronlegs than hindquarters? I don't se a horse working freely when the spurs in it's side every step it takes... if this is what you call "love her job" then, yes, I really disagree.
Marixxen2 4 months ago
She was a fantastic horse, but she is on the forehand the entire time.... There is a lot of spur and she was just taught to lift her legs, not to transfer her weight onto the haunches. Nobody is perfect, but he could do much better than this, really! She is giving everything and is just getting the spur... she seems forced....
AnamCaraDressage 1 year ago
RIP Blue Hors Matinee
HKW1994 1 year ago
beautiful horse i love her
xxxwarningxxx96 1 year ago
@deeallen2 wrong i read where someone said he was mistreating her and training her poorly and she was tense! she wasn't being mistreated or trained poorly and she wasn't tense!
chivester2 1 year ago
to bad she died ... but cmon what do u ppl see in drassage anyway..im sorry but the orses look retarted. really?
flagracer11 1 year ago
@flagracer11 :O the horses look retarded???? they look completley GORGEOUS!! :D
Its skill and elgancew :D xxxx
xxHaniixJazziixx 1 year ago
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tail swishing can also be a sighn of being happy with work. you never know. it could be nervous... but deffinetly not tense because her mouth isnt open and her neck and back are totaly relaxed... everyone should stop thinking that every great rider uses Rolkur and every horse that has something different about it thinking that the rider makes them that way or are abused in some way. If you dont see it with your own two eyes your self... you should all just stfu cause you sound soo stupid..
Brandalyn488 1 year ago
Keep supporting false collection. The horse is the only one that will pay for it. Why don't you learn what dressage is suppose to be.
shirehorse9 1 year ago
And to the person who said the horse "has to know who is the boss", I suggest reading the FEI rules Article 416 on submission. Submission is not subordination. As to the happy horse comment, please also check Article 416 it says:" Putting out the tongue, keeping it above the bit or drawing it up
altogether, as well as grinding the teeth or agitation of the tail, are mostly
signs of nervousness, tension or resistance on the part of the horse" Happy? Not.
TheProudHorsePR 2 years ago
@TheProudHorsePR she was happy! she swings her tail to the music! her tongue was not over the bit and tongue going in and out shows that she is paying attention! and look how relaxed her topline is! not one sign of nervousness, tension, or resistance from her!
chivester2 1 year ago
This mare was enjoying herself? This is collection? Really? The rules have not changed yet when a poll low, croup high, tense piaffe represents either collection or a happy athlete. This kind of training may explain why the horse broke down.
TheProudHorsePR 2 years ago 2
@TheProudHorsePR she has freedom and hight in her piaffe! why are u dissing an amazing mare! she is dead! leave her be!
chivester2 1 year ago
Wow ... i wonder how many of people who critisise these riders have ever actually trained a horse to Grand Prix????? hmm my guess would be ZERO. If you cant do it yourself then you have no place in saying how it should be done, and i think the horse looks quite content in its work, as for the small buck, well.... so much power has to go somewhere
Betty91287 2 years ago
@Betty91287 Thank you! at least someone is making sense and paying attention here!
chivester2 1 year ago
BanRollkur, you are absolutely right and i agree!!! this guy harms that horse- and everybody who doesnt see that- is blind- for sure!!!
RoadRun83 2 years ago
@RoadRun83 u train grand prix and see wat goes on! he loved her soooooooo much! he would never harm her! she is THE best dressage horse ever! she has had terrific training!
chivester2 1 year ago
Sounds like a lot of jealousy around here.. Andreas and Matine are extremely talented both of them. You can't hope to reach that level, but just live with it instead of slagging them off. And the horse is happy. She's always dancing and has her ears forward :)..
Synna89 2 years ago 2
No one of you knows Andreas, so shut up if you don´t like his ridingstyle. I´m from Denmark, and I have seen Andreas ride a lot of time, and if any of you know just a little bit about proff. riding then you should know that the horses need to know whoes the boss, and how to do the things.
I´m sorry if I sound stupid in my english. as said before, I´m from Denmark..
And again Matiné, rest in peace! We loved/love you!
TheJankzon 2 years ago
Excuse me everyone, im sure we'd all appriciate it if everyoe stopped slagging off matine and andreas!!!!! If you lot are "in" then you'd all know Matine was put down the other day due to a broken leg from her pasture - so please, for her sake, let her rest in Peace. We love you matine!!! x
myponiesrule123 2 years ago
That is a shame for Matine,
however Livinghope we can't possible call that collection. Collection is not arrived at by pulling one end and spurring the other !
YOU have a lot to learn if you think so !!
BanRollkur 2 years ago
Ths is funny. It must be written in the FEI rules for dressage: "COOK HORSE'S LEGS BEFORE AND AFTER RIDING TIME!".
Their horses can't walk with nothing on them:)? But, on the ther hand, it just must be dangerous to have bare horsXD under.........
fleur4198 2 years ago
Go on, lean back, spur it on and then pull it up - yep! that's how it is explained by the 'Masters' of dressage !!
BanRollkur 2 years ago
That would be to engage her hind end and keep her in that state of collection. You should watch what he is doing to learn, not criticize it. That mare wasn't even upset, her ears were flopping not back, she is not angry at all, more like thoroughly enjoying her job. Sadly she was euthanized today.
LivingHope937 2 years ago 2
i know he wasnt using them together, just seperately you have to push them forward again to keep the collection and if he doesnt react to your leg you kick them once and leave it he was doing great idk what is wrong with some people shuld just get over it i totally agree with you
chrissyt0393 2 years ago
An angry horse - superb trainer - great what our top riders can come up with isn't it ???!!!!!
What happened to harmony in dressage, one of the main FEI criteria in their rules.
BanRollkur 2 years ago
aber wirklich -.- kein wunder das die nun weg ist vom sportlichen fenster
maikesponge 2 years ago
ein spanntritt nach dem anderen..
Wilano12345 2 years ago
e praise those that are in the arena -- this horse is not happy -- swishing tail. This horse isn't light in hand nor is this horse completely through the back. Sorry not my idea of dressage. Too fast and too much hand and leg.
lexusascheman 2 years ago
That is such crap. She is happy, look at her! Her ears are flopping around and she looks to be comfortable in her movement. She isn't being spurred to death and he isnt hanging on her mouth.
bcbeaupied 2 years ago
you are absolutely right! it´s a pitty all those people talking bad instead of learning riding themselves. i would be happy to have a horse like this and i would be happy if i could ride like this.
1010nicole1010 2 years ago
1010nicole1010
Exactly!! :)
bcbeaupied 2 years ago
And both tail swishing and bit chomping can be good or bad depending on the other things the horse is doing, don't judge by just one. :) Remember that the tail and head indicate the smallest feelings the horse is having while the body itself indicates the strongest emotions.
Also, she isn't hyperflexing. ^^ Look at the angle of her head and you'll see her face is perpendicular to the ground, exactly where it should be. Her buck more means 'I don't want to go forward! I want to piaffe!'
Techieness 2 years ago 6
Absolutely LOVE this horse...it's a shame she inured herself coming off the trailer. D:
And to everyone who's saying how she doesn't enjoy this and how she's so uncomfortable...LOOK AT HER EARS. Her whole topline is completely relaxed so much so that her ears are bouncing when she does. If anyone has ever ridden a horse that is that loose, you know what I'm talking about. If you watch Matine in other videos you would realize how much she absolutely LOVES this movement.
Techieness 2 years ago 13
I totally agree with you :D
NIEN1994 2 years ago
@Techieness yeah! after all she was the Dancing Mare!
chivester2 1 year ago
@Techieness horse ears are not supposed to flap when being ridden... they are supposed to be turned back a little, listening to the rider. This ear flapping is a sign of absolute submission of the horse where he just does his stuff like a machine ...it looks like mechanical trick training - I am not perfect but I don't see any harmony or happiness in this...
AnamCaraDressage 1 year ago
@AnamCaraDressage Ear flapping is a sign of a horse being relaxed actually. Every horse is different. So I don't see how anyone can sit here and say "oh she hates it" Because NONE of you(including me) know how she is. Example, Judgement ridden by Beezie Madden is often seen jumping with his ears pinned back. That doesn't mean he hates jumping. If he hated it he would not do it, along with Blue Hors Matine.
missymatch123 1 year ago
@Techieness Relaxed? you don't know what you are talking about. this horse is so forced on it's forhead she strains her neck for every step she takes. Can't you se that? She not collected from behind at all. No weight on the hindquaters - which is moste of the point, because a tru relaxed horse will then freely be on the vertical line as wel then.
Marixxen2 4 months ago
Comment removed
marrnold619 2 years ago
Oh please. Andreas is far, far, FAR from "brutal". Matinee is soft, loose and happy. There is not one second of "brutal riding" in this video.
bcbeaupied 2 years ago
I think she's more quick from the ground here
Golleklomp 2 years ago
This is not Andreas, this is Rudolf Zeilinger, his trainer.
Elenitaencasa 3 years ago
she's just like "hey watch, I can collect so much I BOUNCE!! Weeee!"
silly amazing mare :P
tinatron 3 years ago
sorry for all my postings....haven't got the hang of it yet!
jjclimb69 3 years ago
Couldn't add it on..a lot of horses do tail swish during advanced m/ments. But, did we see the signal strength match the response strength - she seemed to be trying her heart out?
jjclimb69 3 years ago
Great debate! Aids work on pressure/release (negative reinforcement)Tail swishing, IS a 'conflict(stress) behaviour' with a varied aetiology. Eg, two or more opposing pressures applied simultaneously OR the horses legs not under stimulus control, or if the seat is used to stop/turn, etc, before consolidating pressure-release responses. Sorry, but a HABIT is not arbitrary. It's a learnt response to conserve mental processing which can hinder learning so not good!!
jjclimb69 3 years ago
what a beautiful mare she is!
hdsdancer 3 years ago
hes sooo cute very active behind haha cute little buck
karaokeKATIEx 3 years ago 2
no classical dressage!
it's a skit of a piaffe and very demaging for this wonderful horse.
wodisi 3 years ago
what would you have her do barrels?if it was truly hurting her she wouldn't put up with it and her ears are forward...
OlympianGonnaBe2020 3 years ago
Ahhh everyone. Don't pay any attention to those people who are picking this video apart. Anyone with any amount of experience can appreciate this quality for what it is.
Those who are posting stuff about tail swishing and bit chomping obviously know very little about equine behaviour. Mouthing the bit is a GOOD thing, tail swishing can be excitement or just habit, and even the best horses throw in a buck every now and then.
Don't pretend to know more than you do. It makes you look silly.
popcornrose 3 years ago 3
Great debate! Aids work on pressure/release (negative reinforcement) Tail swishing, IS a 'conflict(stress) behaviour with a varied aetiology. Eg, two or more opposing pressures applied simultaneously OR the horses legs not under stimulus control, or if the seat is used to stop/turn, etc, before consolidating pressure-release responses. Sorry, but a HABIT is not arbitrary. It's a learnt response to conserve mental processing which can hinder learning so not good!!
jjclimb69 3 years ago
I am sorry but if you criticise others you have to be open to it yourself. From your comments you clearly have not read ethological research about equine behaviour (previous posting). Indeed, using the word 'habit' to lessen the significance of the horse's behaviour shows a superficial understanding. Read a bit more!
jjclimb69 3 years ago
popcornrose --
I completely agree! It specifies in the USDF rulebook that the horse should be mouthing and chewing the bit softly. People who think that chewing is a bad thing are probably used to seeing horses with crank nosebands and too-tight flashs that prevent them from mouthing like they should!
TBsPlease 2 years ago 2
She does look a little tense here but she is a horse, people, with a mind of her own and he is maybe trying to work through some of these tension issues in the schooling ring. Give them a break! No horse is perfect and I have seen examples of "classically" trained horses that look pretty hollow and unconnected to me at times. It is a process, however you approach it and nobody can have perfection at all times.
UltimateDQ 4 years ago
Does no one see the crow hop, The head bobbing, the tension throughout the ENTIRE body, the aggressive tail swish, the chomping on the bit, the way she just flings her legs out? There is no grace, no freedom of movement, no calm, happy horse anywhere in this. It's sickening, she could be truly amazing with the right training..this is not it.
itsnotaboutthehorse 4 years ago
wow. is that really what you see? how could you watch this, and see an unhappy horse. and newsflash- mares have attitudes more so than geldings, hence the tail. chomping at the bit- duh. if theres something in a horses mouth they're gonna chomp on it. she doesnt just "fling" her legs out- its called suspension. if you dont see a happy, calm, graceful horse, then you need glasses.
bcbeaupied 4 years ago
Wow, you have a great eye.
coversteps 4 years ago
Just kidding you're the biggest noob i've come across yet. Now run along and go lose a hunter show.
coversteps 4 years ago
HAHAHAHA
msoifer1021 3 years ago
Hi! I'm happy this video has generated response.
I was sitting in the audience filming this and me and my friend were the only two I could hear that were critical. Everyone else was "blinded" I would say.
The horse has huge mechanics, and they use it. But she is forced on her forehand because of it, her neck is stiff and she's trying her heart out. But it's impossible when the neck is compressed like that.
Can't you see, that it's "all legs" and no collection? But she's really trying...
fnyfniken 4 years ago 12
bullshit! That horse is collected and she collected extremely well. No way is it all legs... you have no clue.
Jaccko14 4 years ago
Luv, go to Walter Zettl's website and look under articles. Check out the article titled "Short and Deep". Actually while you're at it read them all, they should be requirements for anyone who wants to start dressage.
itsnotaboutthehorse 4 years ago
oops that was supposed to be a reply to Jaccko14.
itsnotaboutthehorse 4 years ago
How about no! I dont need to read classical shit, its bad for horses. I have no my own opinion and the "show" piaffe is much better than a "correct" paiffe. Go away you snob.
Jaccko14 4 years ago
Hun. You've got your information backwards. Its the CLASSICAL methods that are good for the horse, and the modern,show methods that are RUINING horses. Rulkur anyone? If everyone started liking the "Show" movements, then dressage might as well be saddleseat. Because that is what it's starting to look like.
itsnotaboutthehorse 4 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
No hun, you have it wrong. Classical is going out the door, more and more people are becoming modern and hyperflexion is a great method. Dont talk like you know everything cos its clear that you dont.
Jaccko14 4 years ago
Then dressage has become just about the ribbons, and not about the horse.There's a reason why dressage MASTERS are talking about how horrible dressage is now. How can you just completely ignore that? Are they just old fuddy duddies to you?
itsnotaboutthehorse 4 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Yes classical people are just ugly fuddies to me. Yes dressage has become about getting the gold medal. And thats the good thing.
Jaccko14 4 years ago
Well then I completely understand your side of this...In fact maybe I should start building up my horses to this level of expertise..
itsnotaboutthehorse 4 years ago
indeed
Jaccko14 4 years ago
Don't worry, plenty of people are switching to classical. My trainer rides the upper levels and because of the way competition dressage has become, has decided classical is what's for her. There's still hope, especially with the FEI's statement on hyperflexion.
daisyfields 3 years ago
Look at the still photos of Matine in the other videos. What you guys are arguing about is not over a training method but her way of going. Look at the length of back! It will look hollow because it is long. A long back is a weaker back. The knee and hock action are from her conformation as well. (So is the pacing walk.) The hyperflexion is a reaction to her conformation also. She isn't built like most classical horses from the Iberian Penninsula, so I doubt she could ridden that way either.
elap002 3 years ago
"Hyperflexion is a great method" Yeah right... Hyperflexion does the horse no good. It builds up the muscles on the bottom of the neck, which is bad. It traps the horses ariways so that it can't breathe properly, which is bad. The horse gets tensed up, which is bad. There are loads of other reasons why hyperflexion ISN'T a good method. The only reason it works is because the horse can't find anyway out, and with time it just gives up.
xXWarrenbabeXx 2 years ago
...It accepts that riding will always be like that, and that it has to do what it's told. But they aren't relaxed and happy whilst being ridden. They just can't cope mentally anymore, which is why they don't try to fight. In the video you see the rider leaning back and using all his strength to try and pull the horses head down. And you see the horse give a tiny buck, which means as much as 'stop pulling at my mouth, i don't like it and it's hurting'.
xXWarrenbabeXx 2 years ago
Lots of top dressage riders only use it because it's easier to have a horse that accepts everything that you do to it, and make it do, rather than have a horse that questions you and might take longer to train. If you think hyperflexion is good, then you shouldn't be doing riding, as a horse is supposed to be your partner, and not some renewable object that's worth nothing.
xXWarrenbabeXx 2 years ago
...Go and do something else and keep your hands off horses! And if you think that hyperflexion is so good, then walk around with your chin on your chest the whole day - pretty soon your whole body will start hurting, and then you'll know what horses feel like when they're ridden with hyperflexion...
all my comments were supposed to be a reply to Jaccko14!!
xXWarrenbabeXx 2 years ago
Also, thank you to fnyfniken for posting this. It just proves that the tail swishing in competition videos actually does mean something. And this horse is NOT happy.
itsnotaboutthehorse 4 years ago
Gah, what a horrid Piaffe. It's so choppy, ungraceful, combined with the tail swishing and the head bobbing, it's just so sad to watch. That's such an amazing talented horse, who you can tell just keeps trying to please. It's so frustrating to see her ruined by modern dressage. If you want to see beautiful dressage where the horse is actually happy search for Ahlerich. That is what it should look like not this poor confused creature.
itsnotaboutthehorse 4 years ago
The main goal of a piaffe is freedom and suspension. Matine is only 9 and from what i've seen it takes more muscle than a 9 year old has to gracefully do a piaffe that high and suspended. Its an awesome start in my opinion, that will became even better with Andreas CLASSICAL riding style
WAgirl331 4 years ago
Exactly. She's NINE years old, not nearly mature mentally or physically to handle Grand Prix movements. And you have to think how early they had to start such a slow maturing breed to already be at that level of training. It just makes it more sickening.
itsnotaboutthehorse 4 years ago
the thing i dont understand that at shows for "normal people" who dont ride at this level you MUST wear a helmet at all times when on a horse, just because you ride at this level shouldnt exclude you form wearing a helmet when warming up, i know they wear bowler hats in the arena when competing, i just think its crap that there's one rule for one lot of people and another rule for the rest. Lovely horss though, always love watching him
pompous21 4 years ago
ereside: Nope, it's Matiné alright! Cavans dark ;) + he doesn't ride Cavan anymore - he is retired
annenellemann 4 years ago
that does not look like Blue Hors Matine it looks like Blue Hors Cavan.
ereside 4 years ago
That horse is GORGEOUS!
christinahk 5 years ago
ahh i would kill to have a horse like that. she truly enjoys that
Ima09er 5 years ago
omg i love blue hors matine she is so stunnign and so talented love her to death
burnzy2006sprite 5 years ago
Very nice piaffe!
merenylo001 5 years ago