The Primacy of Consciousness (3 of 7)

[kamsmelon1]

It like you are dreaming. In the dream you see many of object, e.g. mountain, river, people (some people you know or some you don't) all surrounding in your "dream" is make it by yourself. So, it is all part of you and you make them so real, even your feeling in your dream are so real. Sometime you will cry or laugh until you woke up. Who created that "dream"?  You and your "dream" are one. Everything inside the "dream" is part of you and you created your "dream". Amitabha

[j4ck4Iz]

How does a consciousness come from something as unconscious as matter?

How does something as complex as a nucleus come from something as opposing as a eukaryote?

It just does, niggas

[jorgeasalas]

Anti consciousness

Small consciousness

Sub consciousness

Consciousness

Awakened consciousness

Ascended consciousness

Living consciousness

Super consciousness

Absolute consciousness

[DarkTrunksGeorgeSim]

"Consciousness is so hard! Let's make it an axiom and be done with it." <-- not a real scientist.

[itsonelouder1]

How can a non-living thing can be consciousness or conscious? Only living things exhibit any consciousness of their surroundings. A paving slab isn't conscious that I'm treading on it.

[104chestnut]

I think some of the people making comments on the laughter of the audience are a little young. So, I'll explain. When giving a serious talk a speaker, such as a teacher or lecturer, or even a minister or politician will uses humour to lighten the mood and keep the audiences attention. If you use out and out jokes then it can undermine the seriousness of the subjects so speakers tend to use more subtle things like quips or irony. Thing is, you have to understand what's said to get the irony.

[metedude2]

@104chestnut yes indeed! thanks for the comment :)

[ericsbuds]

@104chestnut The humor was brilliant. Any naysayers must be ignorant to any sort of intellectual conversation.

[ericsbuds]

I think one day we will continue to evolve to experience our consciousness in deeper ways.

[FlyDan11]

@104chestnut Excellent point friend.  Plus, I don't think the laughter is that bad.

[Guuster00]

without an observer one cannot really prove there is something like space, time or matter. And even space, time and matter are actually nothing more then concepts.

[4spaced]

@Guuster00: Without someone to prove it to, nothing needs to be proven. I highly believe there's something else outside of us; but I strongly disagree that we can measure it accurately in any way.

[Hakiblack]

The audience are a gang of total retards. They'd laugh at Barney.

What are they doing there? You don't have twats like that at Tom Campbell’s lectures. Sod it i can't listen to them anymore, Adios...

(To the wanker who defends the laughing idiots, before you waste your time bothering me with a reply. The audience reflects the talker. He attracted them...go find out why yourself.)

[metedude2]

@Hakiblack hahaha lol yeah it is annoying that they're clearly laughing more than they should be... personally I think they might have had some drinks before and were feeling giddy, but that's just an assumption based on nothing. The presentation would definitely have been more effective without the distracting laughter. best wishes!

[Hakiblack]

@metedude2 At the very beginning when I wasn't expecting it, I thought that it was some kind of interference from another video when it was uploaded, then I thought they'd edited in a laugh box, like they do in rubbish comedies. It came as a bit of a shock when I realised that it was actually the audience. Ah well, it’s not a big thing. Consciousness is an interesting topic, I had watched the Robert Monroe and Tom Campbell stuff and was looking for another view point.

[bangthatdrumb]

@metedude2 I don'k these people get out much. it sounds like a god damned sit com laugh track.

[TReoS96]

@Hakiblack your a dick

[Hakiblack]

@TReoS96 So says no one, big deal, twat.

[Hakiblack]

I'm trying not to let it take away from the message, but the audience are a gang of total retards. They'd laugh at Barney.

What are they doing there?

[iamoogabooga]

weird audience

[muphart]

They are laughing at the stupidity of people, the ridiculousness that goes into logical proofs. Every time any of you laugh it's because of the stupidity of people so why does the laughing upset anyone? If you are looking for a serious discussion of consciousness you will be forever disappointed since there really is nothing to discuss.

[lazyishardwork]

@muphart and you are an authority, why?

[muphart]

@lazyishardwork lol who decided that leaving a youtube comment gives me any authority? Either discuss the video or shut up

[lazyishardwork]

@muphart is that mu (ph) fart or mupp art

[muphart]

@lazyishardwork It's actually muff-art, when a woman gets creative down there.

[jagg1951]

I think he has it backwards. The consciousness came first and then built this perception of reality to answer the question of what it is. We exist as a perception of realitty we have created to define who we are. It is like a dream, only we are the characters our collective consciousness has created to express itself.

[lazyishardwork]

@jagg1951 and you are an authority, why?

[jagg1951]

@lazyishardwork

What makes anyone an "authority" on such matters as philosphy? We live within the box of our perceived physical senses and cannot know what if anything exists outside our limited understanding of reality. We choose a paradigm to believe and then we build on that paradigm, perhaps merely creating the laws of physics as we go along, like the rules of a game like monopoly getting 200 dollars as we pass go as sure as the law of gravity.

[ariana29x]

is this a lecture for retards. its all so boring and obvious. and as for the over the top laughter fuck sakes

[daretodream25]

google "i am that" .. the book explains it all

[iangsinclair]

Wish i hadn't wasted time watching parts 1 and 2...

I recommend anyone watching this switch over to the clear-thinking of Dennett or Hofstadter.

[Imperativism]

@iangsinclair Dennet's hypothesis is destroyed by Penrose's.

[troglodyte3344]

who are these morons on the video laughing at everything being said? this must be the first time they have ever been out of the house. wtf

[donnybahar]

what if consciousness comes from outside the system of matrix that we are in? I mean, we've only just beginning to understand the system that we are in but what if there are other systems other than our matrix, still far out of reach of our understanding and perception, and that consciousness somehow comes from a place outside all these systems? A system of all systems. Wouldn't it rise bigger questions?

[mountainmanbear]

Plants are conscience of light.

[mountainmanbear]

I alwas thought about non life still having some kind of conscience. Even down to the fundemental levels of attraction.

[metedude2]

@mountainmanbear  Right, I think that's called "animism", which I believe myself.

Thanks for the comment.

PEACE AND LOVE to all

[4spaced]

@mountainmanbear: I believe that a "conscience" and "consciousness" are two very different things. Here, he is talking about consciousness.

[mikeyo1234]

He is assuming his ideas are true... sadly fallacies go through three stages also:

First, it is ridiculed.

Second, it is opposed.

Third, it is regarded as totally retarded.

[AbattoirDream]

i think the conciousness of bacteria is basically as simple as stimulus/response.. somethings too hot, the bacteria will respond by moving away from it.. its that simple

[janaipresident]

the audience is reacting to his subtle jokes... he is making them laugh. maybe you just dont get it?

[Pensionisten]

the people laughing is doing so cos they see the fun in it, and cos it makes em giggle, its simple as that, but it comes from having a view point where that which is going on seems silly to do,specially now that you se you dont have to become wet to get over the water you can build a boat or bridge, and in that avoid having wet cloth, so to those that dont have the "wet cloth path" as their normal route of things, and who find its silly, will find it funny those people still do the wet path =))

[Machew4Life]

the audiacne is so stupid lol y do they laugh?

[metedude2]

@Machew4Life yeah i know it's annoying lol :) the message is still there - i think his most interesting point is looking at light from light's perspective, good stuff :)

[brotherkito]

@Machew4Life It's funny because it's the truth and the truth is absurd. I lol'd

[lazyishardwork]

@brotherkito thank you , most of the people who commented on here are vastly ignorant, its good to see some aware consciousness responding.

[crusher1427]

@Machew4Life The audience is mostly scientists, they find some problems so frustrating that they laugh when these problems are mentioned

[lazyishardwork]

@crusher1427 or maybe they are laughing at peoples ignorance.

[jaguarblack1]

@Machew4Life Yeah its very annoying whats so funny?? Its like they think its a big joke. He is not explaining anything meaningful. Its like a night at the improv!

[lazyishardwork]

@Machew4Life mybe because people cant spell audience

[deanmullen10]

every single object contains consciousness and even we are made up of smaller conciousness.

[Carolsw1]

I don't think we can assume that matter is completely insentient or unconscious. Perhaps we really just don't know how matter operates because it's beyond OUR level of consciousness just yet.

[The2012phenomneon]

Yesterday I left consciousness, like I said lets go completely blank, I was unaware of hearing, seeing, feeling, smelling, tasting and even thinking, I seemed to leave all my senses of reality including what i consider the sixth sense or the guaranteed sense for all living things, consciousness which results in the idea i seemed to have left my consciousness, it was extraordinary, very short and it was planned by me a few seconds earlier, try it out when lying in bed 2nite if u wont 2.

[cronicjointpain]

@The2012phenomneon sorry but you cannot leave consciousness, all you can do is minimize it and concentrate on one thing at a time, then switch your attention to nothing at all, but you are still conscious your just not conscious of the fact that your conscious.

[The2012phenomneon]

Matter dont see consciousness yet creates it, we know matter yet dont create it, and so matter creates consciousness thus holds the answer as it sees the creaton of consciousness yet since its not alive it cant tell us that, so we can see the creaton of matter but not the creation of us, now sex is not the creation of conciousness in the sence, its just a new living being copied from two other individual copies, yet consciousness from the start? only matter knows that yet matter does not think!!

[coldlogic1]

ok for that guy back there, so a person has a stroke and is unable to comunicate, does that make the not self aware. just because a dog does not have the ability to comunicate with other humans, or does it, can it tell you to stay away by barking and growling. things are no so clear cut, just saying.

[cronicjointpain]

@coldlogic1 i believe dogs definitely communicate with us, we just can't understand it, my dog used to look around the room like it was seeing something we weren't and she would growl and bark at it, ghost? i don't know but it seemed that way, and also my ex girlfriend the first time she came over she went to pet my dog, and she growled and bit her in the nose, when she went to pet her, i believe my dog new her true intentions, it turns out that girl lied to me, stole from me, and cheated on me.

[cfayzo]

@cronicjointpain

WOOF WOOF

[D4R3W]

that luaghing was so annoying..

[deanmullen10]

@D4R3W I know, whats so funny.

[mdeioma]

The nearly black screen - it's not nothin'

[mordsith05]

This is fascinating stuff. We all must follow 'the law of one.'

[dasgroovey]

if our body is a water battery with 1.2 volts PER CELL- [ read that again ] submerged within an H20 environment! - well then, instantaneous 'anything' is possible and observable.

air is water in a gaseous state - The so called 'mystery' of action at a distance (and the like) when the universe is 99% electric plasma...

a mystery? not a chance

[GateMessenger]

Your body is a vessel for the consciousness. The consciousness, because it is detected with electrodes, EEG, means that the electrons were being freed from the brain. One can compare this to many quantum experiments. They found a timeless action between twin particles, see "The twin-photon experiment by Dr. Nicolas Gisin of the University of Geneva". In other experiments based on the theory it escapes the time reversal paradigm, connecting consciousness. See R. G. Vogelsang, STI device, 1999.

[GateMessenger]

Thus why when trying to consciously change a random set of bits coming from computer output it can be "willed" to change to a desired result, more 1's or more 0's. This was found with group prayer also. I believe this too was noted by Vogelsang's STI device, connecting to the subconsciousness in a timeless manor, able to be influenced by his thoughts, consciousness, as the output answered his question after he thought it. Freud did say "the unconscious wills to remain unconscious".

[BadAsteroid]

"Oh please give me a chance to laugh PLEAAASE", "Could I potentially laugh at that!?!?! SURE! MUHAHAHAHAHAH" - Why the f*ck are the audience taking every available opportunity to giggle at almost every portion of information presented here? Surely that's distracting from their overall concerntration and appreciation of all the concepts involved?

[guidobaldart]

@BadAsteroid completely agree with you

[gespilk]

7:08 He is so wrong. Just answer this. "Can a jelly fish be advised to take you to court and sue you for abusing its rights? Perhaps some other creature could do it?" The answer is "No" because they are not conscious. The case with animals and consciousness is: "The lights are on but there is nobody inside."

[SushantaMog]

This is just your statement to which I'll as this:

Who's inside you? Never mind that, who's inside the one who's inside you?

I saw a documentary on jellyfish where they pointed out that recent study shows they're not the self-propelling random variables of the oceans as once though, they were only presumed to be until research showed otherwise. The reason for this is we were happy with the model we imposed on them, it served us, it didn't define them, it served us and our measurements/views.

[gespilk]

@SushantaMog

The point is not who is inside. The point is that defining consciousness so broadly is incorrect.

What you see with jellyfish and animals are reactions to stimuli. Consciousness is when the creature understand the ideas for me and the others", "now, later and before", the ability for "what if" scenarios and a few more basic concepts that could qualify it as conscious.

[SushantaMog]

@gespilk. You raised the "inside" argument. So empathy is needed for consciousness, who decided that? You? I don't subscribe to this and I feel/think or believe that the model of consciousness as an emergent trade of biology doesn't explain enough to me while the "consciousness as the ground state of existence" does. This is simply personal. This subject is subjective and such phenomena can be studied with statistics to produce replicable results, but individual events will remain subjective.

[gespilk]

@SushantaMog

What most people seems to agree on, as you said, is the subjective nature of consciousness. However from my perspective I ask myself am I aware/conscious of my consciousness. Yes, that is why the word itself exists. On the other hand an animal predator may be aware of its prays behaviour while hunting but it is definitely not aware of its own awareness. We on the other hand do that and I think this is what allows us to define consciousness and in this way we have consciousness.

[TheNewRenaissance]

To gespilk: I disagree with your assessment. Can you dance the location of a flower to a bee? Can you understand what the whales are singing about? Why expect any other form of life to understand our shared subjective abstractions like, for example, law.

[gespilk]

To TheNewRenaissance

It is possible for us to communicate such information to the bee. It is a)engineering problem and b)a matter of study of the dance patterns of other bees.

Now tell me what else the bee could communicate through its dance. Could the bees agree on new dance patterns to indicate various objects and actions. Could they store the knowledge of new patterns and pass them on. The same for whales. To be conscious means to be aware of your awareness for thing/events around you.

[abhimannuers]

@gespilk : i think you have the definition of 'conscious' a little wrong.

Some really smart folks observed that there are different levels of consciousness. animals at different stages of avancement have different levels of consciousness. human intelligence is very different from animal intelligence so there is no way you can make any creature aware of its rights, but that doesn't mean the other creatures are not conscious or they don't have an intelligence of their own.

[gespilk]

To abhimannuers

Other equally smart folks observed that only humans have real consciousness.

The animals have some level of awareness but they are not aware of their awareness. We are and that is what makes as conscious and allows us to define the phenomenon of consciousness. To be conscious means to be aware of your awareness. No animal can do that.

[bangthatdrumb]

Are the audience drunk. I mean its mildly amusing but not laugh out loud hilarious. Retards.

[SunG1120]

hahahah

[whitstable11]

@bangthatdrumb Well, they're English, sooo y'know.

[hipstarchild]

@bangthatdrumb

I believe the speaker has an audience to whom are conscious of his lecture, therefore it shows that they are not finding his lecture boring.

I am 35 and I find the little puns quite funney as do the audience.

I think these videos are just great and the speaker is very intellegent.

[bangthatdrumb]

@hipstarchild it's like when you go to the cinema and the audience breaks out into rolling torrents of laughter at the shittest joke imaginable and u think, gee, this movie must cater for the fat part of the IQ bell curve because I just don't get. I stand by my previous comments.

[0GurtejS]

excellent..

[KillCount666]

Five stars for the Max Planck quote.

[RvNYC]

The arguement is built very well; uses humor effectively. Drives his point home well.

Cant say I fully agree where he takes this though.

[dewsplash]

Wow this is an excellent presentation.

[HigherPlanes]

But the thing that separates humans from animals is that we know that we know- self reflection is one step above having consciousness.

[purestwrath]

The REAL one thing that separates humans from animals is that we're ARROGANT. We believe that we're superior to animals because we are self reflective/know what we know/conscious of our own mortality. We're far too stupid to consider that animals know the same things we do. We assume animals are not self reflective because we haven't seen what we call "evidence" so we assume they are not. We know they dream, but still assume that animals aren't self aware. Therefore, we have man's flaw.

[gespilk]

@purestwrath

So far we know 4 species that have passed the "mirror test" for self awareness. Humans are one of them.

Put a mirror in front of an animal and see if it recognises the image as its own.

I think what separates us from animals is the ability to retain more memories about events for longer periods. It allows us to "observe" more complex relations in the environment. Thinking is a result of recall of those memories and confabulation between past experience and current situation.

[gobo360]

is it?

[HigherPlanes]

Sure.

[FLABERGAG]

I believe he is saying conciousness is instinct.

[NudePanorama]

We are the manifestation of non-manifested, we are illusion necessary to reality to realize itself through us.

[houseofpleiadesnz]

read his book from science to god where he talks about trees rocks being conscious

[Jimbo22111]

I agree with the idea that every living organism is conscious, but the thing I noticed is that he never mentioned plants, trees etc. of any kind... I also agree it's hard to torment a living being like the jellyfish and you dont through that on the fire, but it seems we dont feel the same about plants and trees... after watching this, shouldnt plants and trees also have a consciousness?

[ananiasacts]

Reincarnation, remote viewing, healing! Do you really blame scientists for ignoring that stuff when the evidence for it so so tenuous?

Lots of people are trying to explain consciousness. We assume matter is insentient because people's consciousness transcends their material makeup. Cells come and go, but we stay who we are. Wouldn't a boulder, with much more matter than me, be more conscious then?

[Agilitarian]

Evidence is so "tenuous" because its ignored.

[ananiasacts]

People have been looking for magic for a long time. If there was any, we'd have recognized it by now. I think you're just not considering the fact that extraordinary clams require extraordinary proof. Some human's subjective sense of some mystical or supernatural effect means absolutely nothing.

[Agilitarian]

Well I have a very open mind, and I happen to thinks thats how your mind works best.

[ananiasacts]

So what odds do you give to the best few non-scientific theories of being true?

I'm at around 10^-4 or so that form of magical thinking is factual.

[Agilitarian]

Its hard to say, Ive only been researching this for about 2 years now. I love to theorize.

[therobanata]

A boulder has no nervous system tard. There are different levels of consciousness. And maybe in some ways, through its own experience, it is. Think about it, your brain is the only thing separating your consciousness from that boulders consciousness.

[flashysimon]

All the nervous system does is produce perceptual and cognitive objects. It does not explain why there is awareness of these objects. In fact, there is no explanation as to why any physical system would produce the fundamental "subjective feeling of existence".

[Fadedpoetry123]

Where does the objective end and the subjective begin? Where does the subjective end and the objective begin? That's dualistic thinking. There is no absolute line of division because those two, object and subject, are one.

[Fadedpoetry123]

"Wouldn't a boulder, with much more matter than me, be more conscious then?"

No, it isn't about how much matter there is, but how it's organized.

"Cells come and go, but we stay who we are."

People change. I can't speak for you of course, but I know that I'm a different person from who I was as a teenager, as a small child ect. and I likely won't stay the same as I get older.

Knowledge increases. Understanding becomes sophisticated. What remains constant throughout is awareness itself.

[ananiasacts]

"No, it isn't about how much matter there is, but how it's organized." But then what is the meaning of the claim that consciousness is a property of matter itself?

The video seems to be claiming that consciousness somehow manifests itself as matter with a desire or predisposition to organize itself in a way that becomes self-aware. This seems like an inane conjecture, sort of like claiming that people were invented by nations to be harnessed as citizens.

[Holidayfunk]

7001

[metedude2]

nice :)

PEACE AND LOVE

[COSINTON]

EVERYTHING in the world of form IS consciousness made visible. The world of form consists of the material world AND the spiritual realm - which we call heaven.

Consciousness is the Vision and Purpose of creation, as held in the mind of our Creator - The Ultimate Universal Consciousness Demention in Equilibrium - and made visible by using the tools electricity and magnetism...

[1Solace]

Ok, stop laughing, crowd; that shit is not that funny, a giggle at most.

[SeriousSam20042003]

I was just thinking that. He wasn't trying to be funny most of the time.

[Agilitarian]

I know right.

[golfpro123456789]

@1Solace lol so tru

[INConcentration]

I agree, consciousness goes all the 'down'. I was built by conscious processes, trying to propagate and improve themselves, and they were built by conscious processes, ad infinitum. We are conscious beings. Yes. We live in a conscious universe. Yes.

[KarameloKaramelo]

we are consciousness. Have you ever heard about BUddha and Jesus and Lao Tsu and Tao....well......the goal of every human being is understand that they are not a person but consciousness and thus achieve liberation and love and much more.

[vomitor88]

WTF is so funny?

[metedude2]

yeah it's annoying... alcohol maybe?

PEACE AND LOVE

[verndewd]

its funny because of the absolute ignorance men tend to embody .

[deanmullen10]

@vomitor88 i dont know, he's probably thinking that to.

[anananwar]

This part is mind blowing...

no pun intended.

[hst99999]

1:01 great

[bweazel]

How do we know we're conscious at all? I really enjoy these videos, but we also have to say that we may not be conscious after all. I especially liked when he compared the different type of animals. Consciousness has not risen from evolution, it's just gotten more complex.

[daleshankins]

What scientist "assumes that all matter is unconscious"? Most of the scientists that I have read would first need a definition of consciousness that is testable. Something that limits them I suppose. But I do not understand how what is being proposed here offers any greater clarity or understanding of what is mean by "conciousness" But then again, I prefer science, the science cured my cancer, the science that was used to heal my broken ankle. I will continue to seek and ask questions. :-)

[NikuCN]

There are theories which say enlightment is a form of psychosis.

[78999]

hahahahahahah

[Taaveto]

x-D

LMFAO

[RealityEngines]

If you look at the accounts of individuals like UG Krishnamurti, Eckhart Tolle, and Ramana Maharshi all describe what some might diagnose as psychotic breaks with periods of inability to function.

[gypster2004]

"The Break" often occurs during periods of rapid growth or purging of "old" energies/thought forms and integrating "new"...

[RealityEngines]

Where does the "new" come from?

[gypster2004]

Just "new" ways of thinking, feeling, etc, etc.. that's all. Repatterning of DNA some might say... it has so many equivalencies in our language.

[delerium2k]

He mentioned pulling the plug on a computer as not 'killing' a conscious creature. I would argue that computers (like any other system - human, jelly fish, planet) are conscious, I think so would he.

When computers cross the threshold into self-awareness that we will be the next major step in earth's evolution.

[fraMichigan]

then can we say that the Earth is concious?

and that even a Concept, such as the Truth, is concious?

which is what mystics have said for millinia.

[2013andBeyonD]

Thruth is a concept. So before truth comes consciousness, becuase consciousness observes truth. Consciousness comes before everything because eveything is being observed. Even energy.

Now, how do we realize we are consciousness? People like Ramana Maharshi or KrishnaMurti can answer that question. Reaching that state is called enlightenment.

[littleredbirdy]

Those people were not enlightened. They were awesome people, but not enlightened.

enlightened is a permanent thing. you can't be pampered and be enlightened.

[2013andBeyonD]

But getting there is nearly impossible.

[fraMichigan]

well, it takes a lot of work.

and you'll have to leave this world behind.

if you believe it is imposible then it will

be. :)

First he made the Truth, then Through the Truth he made everything that is.

The Light is his son.

The Truth is the light, without him

we are blinded by the darkness of ignorance.

and if we treat him as if he is just a thing,

then he will be offended and not reveal himself to us.

[2013andBeyonD]

6 stars*+ man, good post!

[bhuridajanah]

Excellent posts. Thank you so much. May I suggest you watch the talk on my channel called 'The Krishna Conception & Subjective Evolution'

[rajangoraya]

Interesting explanation.

I agree that certain things like conscious would require a paradigm shift to be explained correctly and we will ignore the right explanations for long time before accepting them. It is a catch 22 situation as we are trying to outsmart ourself.

[rajangoraya]

That said, it does not mean that the first alternative paradigm proposed would be the correct one. We will go through many iterations until we hit the gold.

As human we did not evolve linearly. We have learned from past and are trying to solve exponentially difficult problems with time. So although its import to point to the reluctance of society to accept radically new ideas in past, it may not be true anymore.

Any idea is good idea and hopefully one day we will be able to explain more.

[tacittales]

"consciousness is in everything. everything is consciousness." how did he come to this conclusion? i'd like to learn more about his epistomology. i'll have a look at his site:D

[tacittales]

i can understand that consciousness of living beings is an anomaly but not that of matters. how can a statemant such as "A chair has a consciousness" be considered an anomaly, when this can be doubted and people don't ask for an explanation of such a chair-consciousness?

[tacittales]

how do they measure the consciousness of bacteria? interesting:D

[rea1001]

Havent you heard of bacterial consciousness electroencephalography?

No? You will soon enough.