Sartre and Superman

[ILostMyBonnie]

...and then he turns around like, "BIIIIIIIIIITCH."

[SatoshiBatista]

Sartre 101 

[cybernako088]

madness it all madness aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa­aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa­aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa­aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh mayow

[rottenspectre]

When Luthor mentions "evolutionary process" I really don't think he is referring to the theory of evolution as much as he is talking about the culmination of all events and where it ends.

Furthermore this show was hardly atheistic, secular yes, but not at all atheistic. Seeing as the only mentions of religion are of the greek and norse mythology kind.

[DarthLeviathan]

Lex Luthor, the only man badass enough to tell a godly being what to do and they'll DO IT XD

[aachelabelaaron]

oooo was that the atom with ole lexy ? =P

[seekfears]

google Doe's Account.

[TheMessianicManic]

I was confused about what this had to do with Sartre until Lex's last sentence.

[Elenkhos]

wow

[thecrowing15]

actually sounds like Nietzsche there until the end.

[BrazilianGirlDoll]

@thecrowing15 Agree!!!

[ADealWithTheDevil]

Wow-- uh, I, uh-- I forgot what I was going to type. It happens when I am astonished by something.

[Nonoyawns]

Wow. Just wow. This is amazing.

[02bacon]

but sarte didnt think sacrificing isaac was a good idea know what i mean?

[taintedruins]

i died.

amazing.

[KaminaGurren]

That was an excellent dialogue, actually, especially the end. Impressive.

[drkthms1]

damn this shit is deep. but lets be real.life is not about exixtentialism or theology. as much as we want to believe in a higher power there is no god and even the purpose that we create for ourselves is an illusion. as much as it should be avoided nihilism can not be denied.

we exsist on a dying planet in the middle of no where and there is no escape except through death or insanity from this horrible thing we call reality and we muct accept that.

[SonofIndra]

You can argue for the truth of nihilism, but I guarantee you can't live it out.

In addition, you have no proof our planet is dying, and you cannot know that God doesn't exist.

[drkthms1]

nihilism is not a way of life but a belief. so in some respect you are right, i can not live it out. but that does not stop me from seeing the futile chase that all man particapate in, the chase or deisre for meaning and and understanding.

this desire for knowing, meaning and purpose is what creates anxiaty in man. he is despreate for something that is unataniable. those of us who except the pointlessness of life are free in all the ways other are not.

[KaminaGurren]

That's a good point. I suppose if you let nihilism stay in the background of your consciousness, while your other endeavors continue regardless, you gain true freedom.

[drkthms1]

it is rare that someone ever agrees with me, even remotely.

[KaminaGurren]

Glad I could contribute. Why don't people agree with you?

[ShikaNinja]

the myth of sisyphus! you summed it up beautifly!

[lazarimarcelo]

the so called existecialists are atheists in the christian assumption of the word. They dont believe on the judaic christian idea of god, that doesnt mean they dont believe in a force greater than them. Unfortunally, the only idea of greater power is God, but God is just a word, it can never represent even the idea that tries to represent. Detach from the word God is a much greater display of respect than to accept it as a perfect representation of the supreme.

[soweems]

Not all existentialist are atheists, neither are all Christians practicing theism. If you take the philosophy of Sartre to its logical end then you will find an atheistic view. The word "God" is indeed a word, but that statement is nothing more than a truism. Saying that you can't describe God so you won't is not more respect to God, who is a person, not an unreachable idea, who is involved in this world. In fact by saying you can't describe God, you are describing God to be undescribable.

[lazarimarcelo]

I mean, God is for sure a individual, as the God idea is a christian and judaic idea, and founds itself literally on that. But do you believe in God as a human interpretation of the supreme, a valid one for sure, a beautiful way to deal with the world, or the actual supremeness that it represents?

I mean, there's lots of people, the majority actually, that disagree with that perspective, with highly developed spiritualities. I'd like to know your view on that.

[SonofIndra]

This is not true. Kierkegaard could be considered a theistic existentialist.

[lazarimarcelo]

it's very funny to associate lex luthor with sartre. luthor is all that sartre criticized, a superpower burgouase. To associate those two icons is to be a conscious liar for desinformation purpouses.

[soweems]

I didn't associate him with Sartre, these cartoon writers did...

[siberiaice]

Kal-El and Jor-El are the voice of reason. The promotion of the belief to do good in the world. Its not about seeing God that is the message of Superman. Fullfiling your inner purpose after knowing it and understanding it is the message of Superman. Lex Luthor is obviously Superman's main enemy and believes in Survival of the fittest. Satre is merely creation of a professor therefore impossible to be God. Its YOUR purpose that counts to YOU! So get out there and be that person!!!

[brotherwise]

the same people who claim to be Atheists, rarely follow through on the moral implications of their dogmatic beliefs, much like those who claim to be religious rarely follow through on the moral implications of their dogmatic beliefs.  Fundamentalism is what should be avoided - whether expressed in secular dogma or religious dogma.

[zaxan]

WOW O_o

i reminds me of when i was 5

[ciaraKfox]

I think the moral of this little cartoon is not about God or no God History and Who has more followers. (Trillions of Flies eat Shit) But the very last statement, we all create our own purpose, now go create yours. I don't care who said it God or Steven Hawking it's a great message for kids.

And why has no one else commented about Lex being black!?

[soweems]

The OVERT moral of this little cartoon isn't about God, but the point is that if you carry out the philosophy being taught - make your own purpose, there is no other purpose to existence other than what you say for yourself - is indoctrination of a specific philosophy. Why is it ok to use your philosophy in kid's cartoons, as a "great message for kids", and not other ones?

[Alex73013]

Lex gave him an ethos.

I'll say this, it's okay to teach kids existentialism because at least it deals with existence, unlike religion. It's not that an atheist doesn't believe in god, but the fact that god doesn't matter given the situation. An existentialist knows himself because he thinks therefore he exists.

Besides, looking back at history I would have thought god would have died in the 19th cent. but we still have people that believe in this superstition.

[soweems]

Again, why is it ok to pick one philosphy over another for "kids"? Atheist, by definition, is "no-God" Thinking, therefore you exist, is not necessarily existentialist but grounded in Descartes from my understanding. Atheists would think god would die out, but history has shown otherwise and if anything is a minority in history it is atheism. God-belief in the world is alive and well, you can't say quiet the same for atheism.

[algoinsolito]

And that would almost certainly have to indoctrinate with Catholicism, or more so, because it would almost certainly have to indoctrinate with God, if this is a strip cartoon sen where existing powers inhuman beings, perhaps the idea of God is valid when the league justice, there are beings with powers similar to the one God. Greetings

[ciaraKfox]

Ummm.... Why is Lex black now? And isn't the entire story of Superman Christ like. A son sent by a father to save our poor planet? And just because Sartre was an atheist does not assume that the Existential philosophy is anti god. Does not the Bible speak of Free Will and accountability?

[soweems]

Yeah, Superman does have ton of Christ typology, especially the most recent film. The bible does speak of accountability, but is contra defining our own purpose, the purpose of humanity is grounded in the Creator of humanity.

[Dare5358]

didn't know Lex was an existentialist.

[soweems]

Why is it that it's not ok for cartoons to "indoctrinate" children with the Christian philosophy, but it is ok to promote atheistic ones?

For example, in Justice League, Lex Luthor tells an artificially intelligent robot that the point of life is to see what happens as evolution takes place and then promotes the atheistic existential philosophy of Sartre.

[Newton1692]

He is the villain. Atheism = Villainy: Christian enough for me.

[whitetrashoutlaw]

@Newton1692 The problem with christianity is it's dualistic nature and lack of complexity. What do good and evil mean? I see no difference between them. Why should I strive for paradise in heaven? No matter how pleasure or knowlege I recieve I'll still be dealing with the question of why I exist. If I prefer the security in knowing I will die into nothingness to the idea of eternal life on some other spiritual level.

[punk1attitude]

@whitetrashoutlaw well the world is a dualistic reality. empirical and perspectidal . and the dilema at least to my understanding has not to do with the negation of religion ( although sartre does state the theory of negation as a cornerstone of our human mind) but really the problem of being stems from the fact that we cant escape our prespective. In trying to answer the question, you already lost the game.

[HaysAlex]

@punk1attitude i lost the game

[punk1attitude]

@HaysAlex good god sir... so have I.

[NoFreeSpeechonYT]

It's not okay to indoctrinate children with religion because it's not grounded in reality. You set people up for failure and mistrust when you indoctrinate with lies. Atheism is at least honest in it's disbelief. No true atheist will say there is no god. There is just no PROOF of god, therefore, no reason to believe. And god didn't create religion, men did, and still do.

[soweems]

You are describing skepticism, not atheism. If you believe that there might be a god, then aren't you setting people up for failure when you teach kids a philsophy that says there is no God, not one that says there might be a god? Again, regardless of your position (religion is lies and atheism is true) both are philisophical positions so why does one get called nasty words when it shows up for children (don't indoctrinate children!) but the other gets no comment at all. Because you say so?

[NoFreeSpeechonYT]

No, I'm describing atheism. Apparently you have no desire to educate yourself as to what you're arguing about. Look up atheism. A lack of a belief in any diety. Children are born atheists, and taught whatever their parents and friends teach them. I think you do children an injustice by teaching them a primitive superstition. You're lying to them, and that to me is unacceptable.

[soweems]

There's no reason to resort to name calling. I still don't think you're being consistent. "No true atheist will say there is no god...Look up atheism. A lack of a belief in any deity." A lack of belief in any deity means you do not believe in any deity which means there is no god... Children are just as much taught to be atheists as they are taught to believe in God - It's your opinion that this is a primitive superstition, why does your opinion get to indoctrinate in cartoons?

[NoFreeSpeechonYT]

Name calling? I didnt' call you names! You're paranoid buddy. I'm through arguing with someone who's doesn't listen. For the last time: Atheists don't believe in dieties. If you could prove there is a god, I would believe it. But you can't, so I won't. I hope I made that simple enough for. All done. Don't bother responding because I won't reply back.

[soweems]

"Apparently you have no desire to educate yourself" is a way of arguing by attacking the person,it's called Ad hominem, hence my reference to "name calling." This isn't an argument about God's existence but about the appropriate or inappropriate nature of presenting philosophies in children's cartoons.There are great arguments for God's existence and you can't prove God doesn't exist either. You can't physically prove certain subatomic interactions but that doesn't mean they aren't happening...

[NoFreeSpeechonYT]

Existentialism is not a philosophy! It was an idea, an idea that was a fad and was not taken seriously. Describe to me an existentialist. There aren't any. Atheism isn't about philosophy. It's about logic and common sense.

[soweems]

Philosophies are ideas. Existentialism is alive and well, particularly in the United States. Atheism isn't a philosophy, but there are only certain philosophies that fit with atheism, and this is one of them. Hence the original comment, why can we use atheistic philosophies (not the philosophy of atheism but one of them) in cartoons for kids but Christian philosophies are taboo.

[GuestAtSea]

@NoFreeSpeechonYT The problem these days is that existentialism has two meanings. The first being the very generally, hard to define concept which was around since god knows when, and the concrete, PHILOSOPHY of Jean-Paul Sartre. You could say Sartre (definitely) and maybe Heidegger were existentialists. But you are right, the concept of god is so specific that it really doesn't have that much to do with philosophy, as philosophers are concerned with much more general ideas.

[lazarimarcelo]

Surelly I was talking about the cartoon makers... But, when you describe God as a person you are getting to the same point of contradiction that you identified in my point. I accept the idea that God may be a person, but to end up on that sight is to believe that the human reading of the icon named God is the most accurate as possible, so God becomes a figure in human's mind, rather than the actual being that it might be.

[soweems]

You are assuming that God plays no role in his "being read" by humans. God is, however, involved so that He gives both revelation of Himself and interpretation of that revelation. He is not just a figure in our minds because He takes an active role in making himself known to us.

[lazarimarcelo]

ok, so is it possible that God revealed himself as a human to us because that would be the only way for us humans to relate to him? He being surelly more powerfull than any human could present Himself as a human to us to make Himself understandable on our level of awareness? May the power of God be more important than the actual antropomorphysation that we humans are able to relate to?

[lazarimarcelo]

and I, unlike what you said before, dont believe that Sartre's phylosophy has a logical end. Not a concrete one at least, beside the importance of the looking rather than the finding. In that sense it's different from the preached Roman-catolic spirituallity, were God, being a matter o knowledge, may, and must, be forced as a logical knowledge, for, not doing so, you'd be denying the good that you reached by critical thinking to others. That's the base of catequisation. or am I wrong?

[lazarimarcelo]

I'd like o express my personal point of view to you.My current point is this:for sure there's greater greater power than the human, beyond our understanding,it may present to us as God,I respect that.That may relate to the God vision in the sense that we are governed by greater power. The christian morality is a valid, beautiful one,wich I respect and inspire from,the catolic morality I'm not that sure,because it serves more the Vatican politics and power than the spiritual life of human beings.

[KaminaGurren]

Because atheism isn't a religion. Insist as you might, it is not. It is simply the lack of belief in theism. Once religion is breached, a person is free to make and choices they want about everything else. Christianity is quite different. Plus, promoting Christianity over other religions is much more likely to insult that a simple lack of faith, no?

[soweems]

If you glance at the first comment, it's not about religion, it's about philosophies or worldviews. Why are atheistic worldviews acceptable in cartoons while theistic, particularly Christian ones, are not? Why go up in arms if Lex had said "Your purpose is determined by God, you should seek Him"? A simple lack of faith, as you say, forms the foundation of a complex wordlview. Also, we should not use the "likely to insult meter" as a guide to what we use or do not use in children's programming.

[KaminaGurren]

I'm sorry but your previous comments reveal that this is certainly about religion and faith. I already explained my opinion, and it still stands. I agree that insult shouldn't determine what's on TV, but you're just begging the question. It's quite obvious why religion is 'taboo' while philosophies are not. Plus, what could you possibly find objectionable about existentialism? It's one of the most uplifting and empowering ideas known to man!

[soweems]

If you want to sidestep the argument by claiming that atheism is fundamentally different from faith / religion, then I return, past all comments posted in response to other questions, to the first post...a question of philosophies. There are Christian ones. I'm attempting to get past your attempts to disregard the argument by drawing lines of demarcation arbitrarily to fit your argument. Your opinion is that religion shouldn't be in cartoons, and everything that isn't your view is a religion...

[soweems]

Stating that "It's quite obvious" without reasoning doesn't actually make a good case. The fact that existentialism isn't the undeniable truth is enough for my question to remain, why is that questionable philosophy permited but others are not? The double standard is troubling. What other philosophies would you consider acceptable? Are any of them theistic? I was frankly suprised to the cartoon attempting to tackle such a question at all.

[KaminaGurren]

Of course some of them are theistic! Just look at the average TV show and you'll see religious symbolism, ideals and persuasions everywhere. I'm sure you know what I mean, and I doubt you're truly 'troubled' by this 'double standard'. Atheists don't complain about this, however, because WE ACKNOWLEDGE OTHER PEOPLE'S RIGHT TO BROADCAST AND OPINION. There is no taboo. Once again, I don't see what you could see as objectionable about existentialism. Could you please explain?

[metz270]

Just to interject for a second, but there have been theistic existentialists, most notably Kierkegaard and Marcel, both of whom were devout Christians.