Does anyone know that the suspected 911 mastermind who was released from Gitmo is now helping lead Taliban forces against the troops in Afghanistan? FYI
Propaganda/vomit - are Americans really this frightened and gullible?
Please don't let these goat herders and cab drivers loose. I fear for my life from them. They are scary. Just thinking about them being set free makes me not want to leave my home. Evil brown people and all their plotting and planning. Did I mention how scary they are?
Gee, maybe they'd go to max-security facilities like other dangerous criminals and those charged with crimes. Like the Unibomber, Ramzi Yousef, people who escaped from prisons before... we didn't see the need to send those people to Gitmo, and we've found ways to keep them under tight surveillance. My own state, Indiana, hosted one of the most horrendous terrorists of our era- Tim McVeigh. We weren't shaking in fear. Give me a break, Republicans, and stop making up problems that don't exist.
Is this a joke?! Who's so stupid that they actually believe we'll just release them into anything besides supermax prisons?! How dumb does the republican party think Americans are?
There were about 800 prisoners at Gitmo altogether. There are only about 200 left.
800 - 200 = 600.
Do you guys know what happened to the other 600 prisoners that Rumsfeld refered to as "the worst of the worst"?
600 no longer at gitmo. 600 that are somewhere else. Does anyone know where they are?? Maybe that's where we need to send this other group of the "worst of the worst."
I guess Americans just aren't interested where these 600 "worst of the worst terrorists" are in the world. 600 of the meanest terrorists on the globe are no longer at gitmo, but that doesn't seem to interest the public.
I bet no one knows how many people were charged and convicted and given a sentence. No one cares. Americans seem to be saying, "Hey, we really don't care what happened to 600 of the worst terrorists in the world. We'll just deal with the leftovers.
fear mongering! America--land of fear! Republicans---chief fear mongerers! Before you know it, these detainees will be in the line at Starbucks about to order a frappacino! Be scared!
What is WRONG with you people? Are you THAT much a bunch of chicken littles? YOU BROKE IT-YOU OWN IT. The U.S. can handle ANY human piece of crap quite nicely, thank you - GROW UP. GET A BACK BONE-you are pathetic. ~Viet Era Woman Vet who's Marine kid entered Fallujah "in your name". -NEVER AGAIN. NEVER.
Lol! Is this video a joke? It looks like Michael Scott from the Office made it.
The GOP is never going to regain ground with fear like this. Does anyone remember the Reagan ads of the 80s? They looked nothing like this. They were about hope only.
This isn't even a PAC ad! This is actually by the GOP - they did Stephen Colbert's work for him - he can just run this ad and call it a joke. It even has a fake 'rating' before it begins. Priceless. Who the heck does this appeal to???
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
The senate just blocked oBLAHma's brilliant mastermind plan to bring these thugs on U.S. soil, and close GITMO. Even the liberal democrats know better than to support their nutcase president on this one. HAHAHA
What would happen if Lex Luthor sprung them from jail?
Americans are tough hombres al-righty. But one suspects they'll never be able to compete with the cunning of mastermind goatherders locked in SuperMax prisons.
Just imagine ~ if they were to escape, they could get their hands on more box cutters.
Haha, oh man, Republicans are hilarious. In the next election cycle, when you're silly party implodes, I am going to miss the funny you bring on a regular basis.
Don't you want the terrorists held in regular prisons where they can be raped by gangbangers? That way you sickos get your torture, but no one gets in trouble for it.
Not to worry, the Dems in the Senate have said they will deny the POTUS the funding for closing gitmo at present time. Now all you liberals are free to think that perhaps it is not such a good idea to close the detention center.
Arborius, here we are discussing the propriety of torture and imprisonment without trial. This discussion would have horrified most Americans a few years ago, but now you see nothing peculiar. Those of you reading, if you are shocked, your humanity is intact. If you are not shocked, then you should consider how you arrived in this very dark place where torture and imprisonment without trial are defended as American values.
As far as water boarding goes call it what you want enhanced interrogation torture sensory manipulation. The fact is you feel sorry for 3 guys who either were responsible for mass murder or were plotting mass murder.
As far as being held without trial that's just what happens in every war. Al kida can surrender at any time and when they do the prisoners can be set free or tried for any crimes they committed.
No its not and I didn't say it was. These prisoners of war are not protected by the constitution until they are brought into the US. When these guys are brought to the US then they will be under the protections of the constitution given trials and some set free(1 in 7 return to the battle field to kill innocent people) some given prison time up to life and some executed and of course that's what you want. Change the rules at gitmo if you want but there's nothing wrong with them staying at gitmo.
Arborius, the U.S. Supreme Court disagrees with you. Habeas Corpus applies, because it is protected by the Constitution, and the Constitution applies. There is no legal vacuum at Guantanamo. Stop undermining our justice system.
"Working" and "reliable" are two differrent shoes.
Torture is not a reliable method to get good information. Will it work occassionally? Yes. But so will flipping a coin or reading the innards of a bird.
Magni, you certainly paint a picture of Arborius! What you say may be true, but he does serve to illustrate the horrible slipshod thinking of the last seven years. The more he speaks, the more the moderate republicans will realize they need to return to the mainstream, and uphold the Constitution.
It was President Roosevelt democrat who suspended constitutional rights in WW2 not just for prisoners of war but for 1st and 2nd generation Japanese living in the US German and Italian were detained also after both Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy unilaterally declared war on the United States. The constitution isn't a suicide pact. During war some protections are temporarily suspended at the discretion of the president.
Seriously, Arborius, you're bringing up the detention of Japanese Americans as justification to suspend the Constitution? That was one of the worst episodes in our history. Learn from it.
Abraham Lincoln also suspended Habeas Corpus. The Supreme Court tore into him for that. The president does not have the right to suspend Habeas Corpus.
The Constitution is our greatest strength. Our republic is as sound or as weak as our commitment to the Constitution.
Like I said the constitution isn't a suicide pact. Our troops are not law enforcement they can't read POW's their rights on the battle field and POW's are kept until the war is over.
Arborius, you are very silly. Nobody is saying our troops are law enforcement. Nobody is saying POW's need to be read their rights in the field of battle. Why do you have a problem with trying them for their alleged crimes?
You are making it a law enforcement issue by wanting to try them for alleged crimes. They are POW's caught in a war zone not shop lifters. They go free when one side surrenders or both sides call a truce.
Arborius, some of the prisoners were turned in for a reward. Without trials, we don't know who belongs in prison. Prisoners have the right to challenge their imprisonment under both the Geneva Conventions, and the U.S. Constitution. You are advocating war crimes. You are subverting the U.S. Supreme Court, and the Constitution.
Again, I pose to you the question that you have failed to answer. Why are you opposed to trying them for their alleged crimes?
I am against bringing them into the USA and putting them in our justice system. I have no problem with military tribunals held at gitmo but if found innocent and no country will take them they stay at gitmo. I don't want them in the US.
In regards to your deleted comment. The US version of water boarding is sensory manipulation. A towel or plastic are placed over the face and water is poured onto it simulating browning. Pours were limited to 40 seconds tops and medical personnel were monitoring the inmate. It's nothing like what was done in WW2 were POW's lungs were filled with water.
Sure, Arborius, our form of waterboarding is so humane. Why have the tapes of the interrogations been destroyed? They lied about how often waterboarding was used. Why should we believe them on this? You are so gullible. If it's so gentle, why do they need a doctor standing by?
By the way, originally I had removed one post because I thought that accusing you of flirting with fascism was to harsh an accusation. Now that you are once again defending waterboarding, I think it's deserved.
How did they lie? I've always heard 3 suspects were water boarded and I've heard no different from any credible source. That being said the number of people water boarded is irrelevant considering the number of lives saved.
Arborius, nice try to slip this comment through unnoticed by not actually replying to my comment.
The administration said that waterboarding had only been used a few times. Then it came out that waterboarding had actually been used hundreds of times. Two orders of magnitude from the truth is one hell of a lie, and that's just what we know so far.
Dissenting Justice Antonin Scalia warns that the ruling will almost certainly cause more Americans to be killed and concludes The Nation will live to regret what the Court has done today. I dissent.
Chief Justice John Roberts says the rule of law and the American people have lost outand with this ruling, we lose a bit more control over the conduct of this Nations foreign policy to unelected, politically unaccountable judges.
"Like I said the constitution isn't a suicide pact."
Provide factual evidence that al Queida is an existential threat to the United States of america.
"Our troops are not law enforcement they can't read POW's their rights on the battle field and POW's are kept until the war is over."
Thank you for admitting that the Gitmo detainees are, in fact, POWs and thus any kind of torture or even forced interrogation of them being a clear violation of the geneva Conventions as well as human rights.
Arborius, in the past, torturers have tried to justify their actions. Do we really want to follow that model of thinking?
In the wake of 9/11, we had a huge opportunity to meet the adversity with our principles intact. The world rallied behind us. We could have had our finest hour. Instead, we scuttled the Constitution, lost our moral ground, and stumbled into darkness. We are now finding our way back. Don't ask us to turn into the darkness again. We won't follow.
Sorry to disappoint you but what our government did was not torture. Just thank God we don't know how many lives were saved with the information we got from using these technics.
"Just thank God we don't know how many lives were saved with the information we got from using these technics."
Far less than the thousands of US casualties and the tens of thousands of Iraqi civilain casulaties caused by the thousands of foreign fighters that joined al Queida specifically because of the atrocities of abu Ghreib and Gitmo.
"Enhanced interrogation methods worked according to 4 former members of the cia and the current head of cia"
Fallacious appeal to authority. Even better as the real interrogation experts, as oppossed to the desk-jockeys you named, are saying the exact opposite. And unlike these desk-jockeys, their career doesn´t rest on the viability of these atrocities.
Its completely different you just can't deal with the reality of losing the argument. Come back when you have something meaningful to add to the conversation
"No this is my response to your personal attacks. See I let the first few personal insults go figuring you were just upset and posted comment before revising your comment but after the 3rd personal insult you were pretty much admitting you couldn't hold your own in the conversation"
Coming from the moron that never even brought up a real, factual answer to my points, this is truly rich.
I´m going to take your whining and your complete refusal to answer the points as a complete concession.
"If your child is kept with a terrorist and that terrorist is keeping them hostage, but the police has him in custody and they're willing to use advanced interrogation methods (aka waterboarding) wouldn't you use waterboarding to find infomation about your loss child?
I wasn't laying blame as much as answering to that ridiculous 9/11 9/11 9/11 comment.
There's lots of blame to go around. I do think someone's driver does get to a know a person and what motivates them somewhat. Driver's become part of a person's family. Therefore I do believe that b. laden became more emboldened each time an attack was carried out succesfully and unpunished (as his driver pointed out).
Flower, your assertion that Clinton could have stopped 9/11 is just absurd. You sited bin Laden's driver in your argument. Sorry, bin Laden's driver is not an authority on U.S. national security. He's more likely to be a source of propaganda, don't you think?
No, I don't think that. I never said Clinton could have stopped 9/11...I said that there is plenty of blame to go around and...not making a concerted effort to eliminate him or his cohorts many times over was a contributing factor.
Excerpt from bin Laden's driver's conversation with FBI:
"The US could have killed bin Laden in Khartoum, before he moved to Afghanistan in 1996. They could have killed him after al Qaidas 1998 twin bombings at the US Embassys in Kenya and Tanzania. Or after the Oct 2000 suicide bombing of the USS Cole, in Yemen which left 17 U.S. sailors dead."
Instead, ''Bin Laden was emboldened.'' So he struck with the Sept 11, 2001, WTC attacks.
Clinton could have stopped bin Laden. Still laughing?
Flower, think about your source. Of course bin Laden's driver knew where he was. It's quite another for U.S. intelligence to know where he is at any given moment, as Bush administration officials will be glad to point out to you. Why would you choose to believe bin Laden's driver???
During the transition, the Clinton administration warned the Bush administration about the danger of bin Laden, and al Qaida. You can't blame 9/11 on Clinton, no matter how hard you try.
There should be an inquiry about the decision to allow torture. I don't care if you're Republican or Democrat....if you had knowledge of the torture and agreed to it...you should be prosecuted....we are better than that.
As to the prisoners at Gitmo.....if they can be proven to be terrorists or to have faught against us...prosecute them. To continue to hold people we can't prove to be anything but bystanders is anti-American.
Do we really think cuba wants to house american pows? Don't we have supposed strained relations with Cuba anyway? This whole mess makes no sense........messy messy messy
Some democrats also voted to suspend Habeas Corpus. They should be put on the hot seat for that, along with the republicans. It was unconstitutional, and they broke their oath to uphold the Constitution.
The breaking of the Constitution and our ideals of justice is not about party politics. It is about good government versus bad government.
Less than one attack per year good for you guys. I'm glad you can tolerate the occasional murder of innocent civilians in the name of Allah but damn them American's with their confounded sensory manipulation. That must be why the German military sits in Afganistan drinking beer and eating sausage. I mean these guys just occasionally blow up neighborhoods whats the big deal doesn't everyone like fire works.
"It's not "We may do it, because they do it, too!" I am showing u the difference between torture and sensory manipulation. Temporary fear of death vs actual death, big difference."
Torture isn´t deadly, you moron.
And no, waterboarding is NOT sensory manipulation. It is nothing else but a controlled drowning. There is no sensual manipulation, the victim is ACUTALLY drowning.
So stuff that sensory manipulation soundbite up your ass.
It's not "We may do it, because they do it, too!" I am showing u the difference between torture and sensory manipulation. Temporary fear of death vs actual death, big difference.
By the way that's the third personal attack against me which means you've lost this argument 3 times already.
"Curious do think police should be able to use pepper spray or tasers or stress holds to subdue criminals. "
Are you moron honestly comparing toruture methods carried out agianst restrained people against police techniques/equipment used to restrain violent persons? Hell, this isn´t comparing apples to oranges, this is comparing apples to uranium.
But pepper spray tasers and stress holds are inhuman. If I can't poor water on someones face to get information to save thousands of peoples lives then police shouldn't be able to use pepper spray to make their arrest a little easier.
Stop being a coward and stand by your convictions. If u believe them to be harmless u should give them assilume to protect them from persecution from right wing douchebags like myself
"Stop being a coward and stand by your convictions."
Stop being a lazy, hypocritical douchebag and clean of your own mess instead of whining like a freakin baby and expecting the rest of the world to take responsibility for your actions.
Wether YOU, as the amoral douchebag that you are, have a problem with Gitmo is completely irrellevant.
And hey, better diea: Send them back into their home countries, from where you have kidnapped them in hte first place.
Otherweise, you keep them. You unrightfully detained them, you caused the entire mess, now you will stand for it. It´s time that assholes like you leanr the meaning of the word responsibility.
Stop making your self look foolish we captured them on a battle field in a war zone several of them were on the most wanted list long before they were detained.
Arborius, if they are criminals, then why haven't they been charged and tried? Maybe the government is hiding the lack of evidence, and the miscarriage of justice.
By the way, the civilized among us presume innocent until proven guilty. That is one of our strengths. Your willingness to scuttle our principles is a failure of courage. Thankfully, the American people as a whole are remembering who we are as a nation.
Arborius, even in war, there are laws. Holding people responsible for crimes without a trial is itself a war crime under the Geneva Conventions. You are advocating war crimes.
Oh, and by the way Arborius, the Supreme Court of the United States upheld the U.S. Constitution, protecting Habeas Corpus. The prisoners do have the right to challenge their imprisonment. Are you now going to subvert the Supreme Court and the Constitution?
And another concession accepted. Because if it´s war, then they are clearly POWs.
Guess what? Torturing POWs is agianst international law, against human rights AND against the geneva convention. And it were the very united states of america that had people court martialed and hung for this.
Your utter lack of morals as well as your hypocrisy is clearly showing.
Sorry they are not uniformed soldiers and not being tortured. As mentioned many times enhanced interrogation is not torture stop repeating your same sorry arguments over and over.
Yeah, right. Breathing water is not torture. Your flirtation with fascism is leaving you isolated. Haven't you noticed, there's hardly anyone left holding your position? Arborius, those who think like you are already marginalized.
Obama is putting money into the economy by printing it. In the next few yrs inflation is going to skyrocket. Remember that 1.7 tril surplus left to Bush that every lib was pissed that Bush gave back to the people(pissed but obviously they cashed the check) well Obamas first budget for 09 is a 1.8 tril deficit 4 times the deficit of 08. So yeah things will start looking better until the prices start going up. You can't print ur way out of a recession.
"That must be why the German military sits in Afganistan drinking beer and eating sausage."
And this is relevant how? Not at all, you´re just desperately trying to distract from the topic because you have nothing to actually adress my points but lies, strawmen, dishonesty andmoronic soundbites.
Concesison accepted, you are demonstrately unable to even provide a proper argument.
Torture is utterly immorral AND not only useless, but responsible for more US deaths than 9/11. End of discussion.
911 was planed on Clintons watch & we didn't discover enough information to stop 911 because Clinton cut our military & intelligence network in half.
Clinton left a recession after the dotcoms crashed Bush tax cuts brought us out of the recession.
The banking/housing crash Obama is working on at the moment is a result of policies from Carter made worse by Clinton that Bush asked congress to fix 17 times starting in April 2001& they tried to fix it but dems made it even worse
non of the water boarding done or mentioned was limited or monitored so yes every incident was more than likely over the top & qualified as torture. What the US did 3 times According to press accounts, a cloth or plastic wrap is placed over or in the person's mouth, and water is poured on to the person's head.
US version of WB sleep deprivation exposure to cool temperatures all sensory manipulations not war crimes. beheading people civilian shields suicide bombing civilians those r war crimes.
"non of the water boarding done or mentioned was limited or monitored"
Irrellevant. Torture is torture, no matter how limited or monitored. Seriously, this has got to be the most stupid argument ever. "Hey, we only waterboarded them a wee bit, surely that doesn´t count!"
Guess what? The declaration of human rights (as ratified by Congress adn Senate) doesn´t think so.
"What the US did 3 times"
3 times? Man, you should try informing yourself. It´s more like hundreds of times by now.
Yes 3 times plus we have water boarded our own soldiers in training exercises we also put our soldiers through a gas chamber as training. Curious do think police should be able to use pepper spray or tasers or stress holds to subdue criminals.
"Considering that we over here managed to get by with these problems and, in a slow but steady process, marginalised said organisations to such a degree that they´re completely meaningless today, I´d say it would be a rahter good idea. "
I'm a bit confused, you're saying that we should continue to have problems with terrorists for decades on end because the problems are now marginalized? I'm not trying to be sarcasatic, I'm really trying to understand your position.
"I'm a bit confused, you're saying that we should continue to have problems with terrorists for decades on end because the problems are now marginalized?"
*facepalm* No. Rather because the methods used over here WORK. 7 years of the war against terror and al queida is, if at all, even more active and dangerous than they were in 2001.
Evidently, Bush´s methods have failed. The methods used by diverse european countries against their terrorist problems, however, worked.
As seen, movements like the IRA, RAF, ETA and co. have been marginalised into being almost completely irrellevant to the very governments they try to actively fight against. I´d say that´s a pretty clear success. But, typically, the USA under Bush knew better and thought they could do it faster. As a result we have thoussands dead and trillions of dollars wasted and al Queida is still standing as strong as before. Because you yanks lacked the patience to do what has been proven to work.
Seriously,Musicman, you actually buy this propaganda? Grow some, and question authority. It's gullible sods like you that allowed the subversion of our justice system, creating the problem of Guantanamo.
I try to question everything, esp. the current administration, don't worry. If you look at my comment, I was making a comical stance on the subject--and didn't resort to name-calling. All I did was mention about terrorists residing among civilians...nothing about Club Gitmo. Sorry about your misconception. Prayin' for ya.
Musicman, if you want to question the Obama administration, here's a task for you. Make sure they do not leave a group of prisoners locked up without charges and without recourse. We must all demand justice, both for the guilty and the innocent.
In the future, I suggest you question every politician, not just the democrats.
"Are you suggesting that we should follow the European's lead (or non-lead) and have problems with terrorism for decades on end?"
Considering that we over here managed to get by with these problems and, in a slow but steady process, marginalised said organisations to such a degree that they´re completely meaningless today, I´d say it would be a rahter good idea.
Europe's been attacked several times since 911 you over there haven't marginalized anything.
[citation needed] don't act like you haven't seen video read books or talked to people about ww2. All countries used harsher torture methods than water boarding not just Japan & Germany. If you want citations from me then u need to just start including them in each of your responses since 90% of what u say is suspect.
"[citation needed] don't act like you haven't seen video read books or talked to people about ww2. All countries used harsher torture methods than water boarding not just Japan & Germany."
While the "weaker" version might have been used by the SS and Japanese, I doubt that is why any of them were HUNG for crimes against humanity. That is the point I was trying to make. Please don't mix apples and oranges.
I find it repulsive to see my fellow Americans justifying torture. Waterboarding is defined as torture ....it doesn't matter what your opinion is...it's illegal. It took a couple of thousand middle eastern punks to scare them into acts their parents didn't even resort to when Germany and Japan were close to world domination. Such bravery!
I think the WWII waterboarding some are referring to was conducted by Japan and consisted of having a person swallow rice and then give them water until their bowels erupted and they died. The other water torture executed by Japan consisted of forcing someone to drink water until their stomach was distended and then kicking them hard in their gut.
I'm not sure what solution Obama offered other than "We are going to close Guantanamo". That doesn't seem especially well thought out to me.
"I think the WWII waterboarding some are referring to was conducted by Japan and consisted of having a person swallow rice and then give them water until their bowels erupted and they died."
Actually, no. The japs, as well as some elements of the SS, also used the "weaker" version that the US now used in Gitmo. And yes, that one ALSO landed on the points they were brought before a court over.
This video implies that terrorists are going to be released. Give me a break. Instead of preying on people's fears, the Republicans should really consider offering some solutions. The role of fiscal responsibility is ripe for the taking. Unlike this crap it might actually do the country some good.
If they really want a place for the prisoners, here in NH would be a great place. We'd like the money and if any escaped, half the state would hunt them down and kill them. No worries.
Our system of justice has always been up to the challenge. What is lacking, Republican Senators, is your will to adhere to the principles of justice. Seven years of Guantanamo have failed. We don't need kangaroo courts. Charge the prisoners, present the evidence, allow the defendants lawyers, try them by Courts Marshal. Bring justice to the guilty, set free the innocent. Above all, let us see the process, as our democracy demands. Our system of justice is up to the challenge, are you?
Just want to shout out to the administrators of this channel. Hey guys! Pinky wave from the keyboard!
Thank you for providing this light comedy piece. It really does tickle my funny bone. I know that's not what you had in mind, but hey...if life hands you lemons, make lemonade.
Hope someday you will be given a Heart, like the Tin Man in the Wizard of Oz and you will no longer be Republicans. Until then, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
How about by showing that this kind of behaviour was not a standard modus operandi and that the entire US government doesn´t consist of the kind of asshole that would go as low as the people that envisioned gitmo and abu ghreib did.
Simply put, it sets a sign that the entire thing is not considered to be a-ok by the majority of the US.
"So you set the standard you described. How does that keep us safe?"
a) It deprives al Qeida and co. from an easy source of new recruits.
b) It makes it more likely that the common muslims (the ones that aren´t fanatic assholes) will move against al Queida, even if just by single people giving clues to the US.
"Guantanamo did not exist when the terrorists killed 3000 Americans on 9/11."
So? Seriously, how the hell is that relevant at all? It doesn´t change the fact that the detention center on gitmo has, if it had any impact on the war against terror at all, harmed the anti-terror efforts of the USA. Not to mention the kind of stain it left on the reputation of your nation worldwide.
They´re not released. They´re transferred into the normal justice system. They´re still locked up. It´s just that they now get a lawyer, a court and aren´t tortured anymore.
"I wonder does he understand that they have tried to attack or have attacked Americans."
In fact, many gitmo inmates are only there because some afghani/iraqui warlord turned them over to the US, with said warlords word being the only indication of them having anything to do with al Queida.
It makes a huge difference but I don't expect you to understand since you probably think water boarding is torchure you definitely wouldn't understand the added dangers of having these guys in your neighborhood would bring.
What is the purpose of closing Gitmo? Even if you disagree with the enhanced interrogation technics how does closing that facility change anything? You're blaming the building for what happened there. Why isn't your country taking any of these guys since there not a threat?
Gitmo doesn't violate international law or human rights unless you're complaining about how the guards are treated then maybe you got something there. In a US prison general population they won't last a week I'm starting to like ur idea.
Proper jurisdiction is'nt in our normal justice system were you want them put.
why does that matter? You don't consider them a threat so let them live in your town. We'll pay for the plane ticket or does having these guys on a plane makes you nervous.
"Gitmo doesn't violate international law or human rights"
Save for the torture or holding people without any kind of evidence or legal standing...
"In a US prison general population they won't last a week"
Pffft. That´s what the isolation tract is for. Not that the ones you actually have the slightest bit of evidence other than hearsay against wouldn´t get into the death row anyway.
Gitmo is a building on an island if you want to restaff gitmo I support you. Don't blame a building for what happens in it.
We put them in isolation on gitmo you call it torchure we put them in isolation in a prison in the states and you call it protecting them. libs crack me up.
"Gitmo is a building on an island if you want to restaff gitmo I support you. Don't blame a building for what happens in it."
*Sigh* Nobody´s blaming the freakin building. Only the decision to use it as the kind of illegal detnetion center. Seriously, nobody advocates closing the base or something, but just to shut down the detention center and let those suspects run through the normal juicidal system.
"then leave them there and change the staff. Their not talking about bringing them to American prisons some of them are going to be let go."
Which happen to be the ones for who you don´t have the slightest bit of evidence of actually being in league with al Queida. Save for the say-so of the very afghan warlords that turned them in and got paid in cash for doing so.
Considering that cases like Murat Kurnaz already exist, this is pretty long overdue.
They r prisoners of war guess what our version of water boarding isn't the same as what the Japanese did in ww2. We don't dunk people until their stomach fills with water then punch them in the stomach we don't hold people under until they drown. We pour water on their face for 40 sec tops w/ medical personnel standing by. Its not the same thing that was condemned in ww2
I didn't cause a mess they declared war on the west about 20 yrs ago it just took 911 to piss people off enough to fight back
"Its not the same thing that was condemned in ww2"
Actually, it is. While those more brutal methods you outlined were also present, the "soft" waterboarding was just as much used. And it was just as explicitedly brought before the juries and saw the perpetrators hanged.
Were ru getting this information? I don't believe for a second that the Japanese in ww2 limited water boarding to 40 seconds and had medical personnel present in case something went wrong. It seems you're just trying to argue for the sake of arguing. There's nothing wrong with what they have done at gitmo in fact to save lives I would advocate going further.
"I didn't cause a mess they declared war on the west about 20 yrs ago it just took 911 to piss people off enough to fight back "
False. Gitmo is a mess the US created. Now it´s their job to clear it up.
Isn´t it telling that no other western country ever saw the need for an extraterritorial detention center in which they could hold suspects indefinitely without needing any evidence? Even though quite a few european country had a lot more problems with terrorism than the US for decades on end.
Mangni, Gitmo is a problem we all need to confront. We can not rely on the people who subverted justice to set right their wrongs. Democracy is fragile, and we must always be vigilant. It amazes me that many republicans still advocate torture and imprisonment without trial, charges or even Habeas Corpus. Let them keep talking, and we will sweep them from Congress.
Magni, I thought you were from the U.S. I see now that you are holding the U.S. accountable, and I agree with you. Just be aware, not all of us rolled over and followed bad leadership. We are taking control of our country again.
England interrogated prisoners in ww2 in what ever location they were captured in. They used methods far worse than water boarding to get the information they needed. I have no problem at all with gitmo i don't consider it a mess. I consider the media a mess I consider it a mess that water boarding is considered torchure by some yet they dumb Gatorade on the winning coaches head at the super bowl and that's a celebration.
When I saw a water boarding demonstration they put plastic rap over the volunteers nose and mouth before they poured the water so the coach has a better chance of breathing Gatorade than the person being water boarded. Its sensory manipulation not torture.
The prisoner doesn't have a plastic rap protecting them from the water. Waterboarding isn't "simulated" drowning. It is controlled drowning. Even by the Bush administration's definition of torture being at the level of organ failure, this is torture. The lungs are organs. Pouring water into the lungs causes organ failure. Water-boarding is torture. Go ahead, keep on talking, you'll help bury the republican party.
Wow, I can´t evne begin to describe just how moronic an ad this is. Were it not in this very youtube channel, I´d be inclined to believe that it´s satire.
Seriously, this idiocity is fearmongering in it´s basest form.
Best ad I've seen in years!! Have you all forgotten about what happened on 9-11 you liberal cowards!!!!! What a bunch of IDIOTS we have running this country! We should impeach Obama before he gets us all killed and fire everyone in Congress and start over again! Pelosi is a JOKE!!! That bitch should be shot!!!!!!!!
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you have an awesome video..thanks for sharing!
kenjones465 4 months ago
the republican political party is the biggest joke on the face of the earth
alanthe2 1 year ago
why dont they just save the tax payers money and execute them
kyriacos40 1 year ago
Christanic terrorists are America's worse threat.
NotSoOldHippy 1 year ago
Sarah Palin scares me to death.
clamcrabber 1 year ago
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"RepubliCONs = "Politics & Profits OVER People & Progress!" ~(Single-Digit IQ) Scarah Phalin
mavrek47 1 year ago
To the donkeys out there who believe waterboarding is bad:
Which is worst, 3000 Americans being killed by terrorists, or dunking a terrorist's head under water to make them talk?
ParasiteQueen1 2 years ago
Which is worse? The Christanic terrorism you and your fellow traitors commit against us.
NotSoOldHippy 1 year ago
Guantanamo detention center is a Symbol of US cruelty.
BiblesOnLine 2 years ago
Guantanamo is an artifact of Christanic terrorim.
NotSoOldHippy 1 year ago
Does anyone know that the suspected 911 mastermind who was released from Gitmo is now helping lead Taliban forces against the troops in Afghanistan? FYI
microhi 2 years ago
If they aren't "secure" enough in a maximum security prison then what does that say about the prisons?
Raoullin 2 years ago
awesome video
BetterThanDrugs33 2 years ago
Great YouTube. Great time for NIMBY, baby!
SkagitIMS 2 years ago
discover the excellence!
Tripp393 2 years ago
what a joke!
laikalynx 2 years ago
Who makes the music in the background....like what artist?
jayvin83 2 years ago
Comment removed
LacusOdii 2 years ago 3
Lulz, funny how even you're new God is failing to please the needs of your voters...
Btw, inb4 Fox News
icemilitia 2 years ago
Propaganda/vomit - are Americans really this frightened and gullible?
Please don't let these goat herders and cab drivers loose. I fear for my life from them. They are scary. Just thinking about them being set free makes me not want to leave my home. Evil brown people and all their plotting and planning. Did I mention how scary they are?
Noisycowonline 2 years ago
Gee, maybe they'd go to max-security facilities like other dangerous criminals and those charged with crimes. Like the Unibomber, Ramzi Yousef, people who escaped from prisons before... we didn't see the need to send those people to Gitmo, and we've found ways to keep them under tight surveillance. My own state, Indiana, hosted one of the most horrendous terrorists of our era- Tim McVeigh. We weren't shaking in fear. Give me a break, Republicans, and stop making up problems that don't exist.
whateverlolawants 2 years ago
Is this a joke?! Who's so stupid that they actually believe we'll just release them into anything besides supermax prisons?! How dumb does the republican party think Americans are?
zackwoodson 2 years ago
Wow,
There were about 800 prisoners at Gitmo altogether. There are only about 200 left.
800 - 200 = 600.
Do you guys know what happened to the other 600 prisoners that Rumsfeld refered to as "the worst of the worst"?
600 no longer at gitmo. 600 that are somewhere else. Does anyone know where they are?? Maybe that's where we need to send this other group of the "worst of the worst."
toeg1 2 years ago 3
Still no answers, eh??
I guess Americans just aren't interested where these 600 "worst of the worst terrorists" are in the world. 600 of the meanest terrorists on the globe are no longer at gitmo, but that doesn't seem to interest the public.
I bet no one knows how many people were charged and convicted and given a sentence. No one cares. Americans seem to be saying, "Hey, we really don't care what happened to 600 of the worst terrorists in the world. We'll just deal with the leftovers.
toeg1 2 years ago
Beware of the terr'ists! (or of the dimwit senators, one of the two)
rei8yo3J 2 years ago
fear mongering! America--land of fear! Republicans---chief fear mongerers! Before you know it, these detainees will be in the line at Starbucks about to order a frappacino! Be scared!
tintaala 2 years ago
i wonder how long the republicans will use fear mongering and propaganda before they realize the American people arent that stupid.
NunWithAnUzi 2 years ago 2
i thought i was watching a video by the onion or jon stewart.
djonan 2 years ago 3
America has become a nation of ninnies
spooked911 2 years ago 4
What is WRONG with you people? Are you THAT much a bunch of chicken littles? YOU BROKE IT-YOU OWN IT. The U.S. can handle ANY human piece of crap quite nicely, thank you - GROW UP. GET A BACK BONE-you are pathetic. ~Viet Era Woman Vet who's Marine kid entered Fallujah "in your name". -NEVER AGAIN. NEVER.
mommadona 2 years ago 5
Lol! Is this video a joke? It looks like Michael Scott from the Office made it.
The GOP is never going to regain ground with fear like this. Does anyone remember the Reagan ads of the 80s? They looked nothing like this. They were about hope only.
This isn't even a PAC ad! This is actually by the GOP - they did Stephen Colbert's work for him - he can just run this ad and call it a joke. It even has a fake 'rating' before it begins. Priceless. Who the heck does this appeal to???
funtube235235 2 years ago 8
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The senate just blocked oBLAHma's brilliant mastermind plan to bring these thugs on U.S. soil, and close GITMO. Even the liberal democrats know better than to support their nutcase president on this one. HAHAHA
xzmn61 2 years ago
This is totally terrifying.
Terrorists - behind bars?!?
What would happen if Lex Luthor sprung them from jail?
Americans are tough hombres al-righty. But one suspects they'll never be able to compete with the cunning of mastermind goatherders locked in SuperMax prisons.
Just imagine ~ if they were to escape, they could get their hands on more box cutters.
gloamingwonderhorse 2 years ago 6
Haha, oh man, Republicans are hilarious. In the next election cycle, when you're silly party implodes, I am going to miss the funny you bring on a regular basis.
Don't you want the terrorists held in regular prisons where they can be raped by gangbangers? That way you sickos get your torture, but no one gets in trouble for it.
TBlake34 2 years ago 5
Seriously are we suppose to belive they will be released on to american streets?
Next we will be told how the waterboarding is somehow the speaker of the house's fault to distract us from who was really in charge.......wait nvm
quequatal 2 years ago 3
Not to worry, the Dems in the Senate have said they will deny the POTUS the funding for closing gitmo at present time. Now all you liberals are free to think that perhaps it is not such a good idea to close the detention center.
flowerpower6161 2 years ago
No one's mind has been changed. They're just waiting for the political climate to get less retarded.
Tetragrammaton8 2 years ago
You lost days ago now you're just a troll.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
Arborius, here we are discussing the propriety of torture and imprisonment without trial. This discussion would have horrified most Americans a few years ago, but now you see nothing peculiar. Those of you reading, if you are shocked, your humanity is intact. If you are not shocked, then you should consider how you arrived in this very dark place where torture and imprisonment without trial are defended as American values.
VictorLaszloLives 2 years ago 2
As far as water boarding goes call it what you want enhanced interrogation torture sensory manipulation. The fact is you feel sorry for 3 guys who either were responsible for mass murder or were plotting mass murder.
As far as being held without trial that's just what happens in every war. Al kida can surrender at any time and when they do the prisoners can be set free or tried for any crimes they committed.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
Arborius, defending the Constitution is not sympathy with the enemy.
VictorLaszloLives 2 years ago 2
No its not and I didn't say it was. These prisoners of war are not protected by the constitution until they are brought into the US. When these guys are brought to the US then they will be under the protections of the constitution given trials and some set free(1 in 7 return to the battle field to kill innocent people) some given prison time up to life and some executed and of course that's what you want. Change the rules at gitmo if you want but there's nothing wrong with them staying at gitmo.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
Arborius, the U.S. Supreme Court disagrees with you. Habeas Corpus applies, because it is protected by the Constitution, and the Constitution applies. There is no legal vacuum at Guantanamo. Stop undermining our justice system.
VictorLaszloLives 2 years ago 2
Comment removed
VictorLaszloLives 2 years ago
Show citations
How did your 100s upon 100s of experts become experts?
4 high ranking members of the cia say it worked and actually saved lives and those are eye witness'.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
"Working" and "reliable" are two differrent shoes.
Torture is not a reliable method to get good information. Will it work occassionally? Yes. But so will flipping a coin or reading the innards of a bird.
Magni56 2 years ago
Magni, you certainly paint a picture of Arborius! What you say may be true, but he does serve to illustrate the horrible slipshod thinking of the last seven years. The more he speaks, the more the moderate republicans will realize they need to return to the mainstream, and uphold the Constitution.
VictorLaszloLives 2 years ago
It was President Roosevelt democrat who suspended constitutional rights in WW2 not just for prisoners of war but for 1st and 2nd generation Japanese living in the US German and Italian were detained also after both Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy unilaterally declared war on the United States. The constitution isn't a suicide pact. During war some protections are temporarily suspended at the discretion of the president.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
Seriously, Arborius, you're bringing up the detention of Japanese Americans as justification to suspend the Constitution? That was one of the worst episodes in our history. Learn from it.
Abraham Lincoln also suspended Habeas Corpus. The Supreme Court tore into him for that. The president does not have the right to suspend Habeas Corpus.
The Constitution is our greatest strength. Our republic is as sound or as weak as our commitment to the Constitution.
VictorLaszloLives 2 years ago
Like I said the constitution isn't a suicide pact. Our troops are not law enforcement they can't read POW's their rights on the battle field and POW's are kept until the war is over.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
Arborius, you are very silly. Nobody is saying our troops are law enforcement. Nobody is saying POW's need to be read their rights in the field of battle. Why do you have a problem with trying them for their alleged crimes?
VictorLaszloLives 2 years ago
You are making it a law enforcement issue by wanting to try them for alleged crimes. They are POW's caught in a war zone not shop lifters. They go free when one side surrenders or both sides call a truce.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
Arborius, some of the prisoners were turned in for a reward. Without trials, we don't know who belongs in prison. Prisoners have the right to challenge their imprisonment under both the Geneva Conventions, and the U.S. Constitution. You are advocating war crimes. You are subverting the U.S. Supreme Court, and the Constitution.
Again, I pose to you the question that you have failed to answer. Why are you opposed to trying them for their alleged crimes?
VictorLaszloLives 2 years ago
I am against bringing them into the USA and putting them in our justice system. I have no problem with military tribunals held at gitmo but if found innocent and no country will take them they stay at gitmo. I don't want them in the US.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
In regards to your deleted comment. The US version of water boarding is sensory manipulation. A towel or plastic are placed over the face and water is poured onto it simulating browning. Pours were limited to 40 seconds tops and medical personnel were monitoring the inmate. It's nothing like what was done in WW2 were POW's lungs were filled with water.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
Sure, Arborius, our form of waterboarding is so humane. Why have the tapes of the interrogations been destroyed? They lied about how often waterboarding was used. Why should we believe them on this? You are so gullible. If it's so gentle, why do they need a doctor standing by?
By the way, originally I had removed one post because I thought that accusing you of flirting with fascism was to harsh an accusation. Now that you are once again defending waterboarding, I think it's deserved.
VictorLaszloLives 2 years ago
How did they lie? I've always heard 3 suspects were water boarded and I've heard no different from any credible source. That being said the number of people water boarded is irrelevant considering the number of lives saved.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
Arborius, nice try to slip this comment through unnoticed by not actually replying to my comment.
The administration said that waterboarding had only been used a few times. Then it came out that waterboarding had actually been used hundreds of times. Two orders of magnitude from the truth is one hell of a lie, and that's just what we know so far.
VictorLaszloLives 2 years ago
What do you expect from a liberal court?
Dissenting Justice Antonin Scalia warns that the ruling will almost certainly cause more Americans to be killed and concludes The Nation will live to regret what the Court has done today. I dissent.
Chief Justice John Roberts says the rule of law and the American people have lost outand with this ruling, we lose a bit more control over the conduct of this Nations foreign policy to unelected, politically unaccountable judges.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
"Like I said the constitution isn't a suicide pact."
Provide factual evidence that al Queida is an existential threat to the United States of america.
"Our troops are not law enforcement they can't read POW's their rights on the battle field and POW's are kept until the war is over."
Thank you for admitting that the Gitmo detainees are, in fact, POWs and thus any kind of torture or even forced interrogation of them being a clear violation of the geneva Conventions as well as human rights.
Magni56 2 years ago
Enhanced interrogation methods worked according to 4 former members of the cia and the current head of cia
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
Arborius, in the past, torturers have tried to justify their actions. Do we really want to follow that model of thinking?
In the wake of 9/11, we had a huge opportunity to meet the adversity with our principles intact. The world rallied behind us. We could have had our finest hour. Instead, we scuttled the Constitution, lost our moral ground, and stumbled into darkness. We are now finding our way back. Don't ask us to turn into the darkness again. We won't follow.
VictorLaszloLives 2 years ago
Sorry to disappoint you but what our government did was not torture. Just thank God we don't know how many lives were saved with the information we got from using these technics.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
"Just thank God we don't know how many lives were saved with the information we got from using these technics."
Far less than the thousands of US casualties and the tens of thousands of Iraqi civilain casulaties caused by the thousands of foreign fighters that joined al Queida specifically because of the atrocities of abu Ghreib and Gitmo.
Magni56 2 years ago
"Enhanced interrogation methods worked according to 4 former members of the cia and the current head of cia"
Fallacious appeal to authority. Even better as the real interrogation experts, as oppossed to the desk-jockeys you named, are saying the exact opposite. And unlike these desk-jockeys, their career doesn´t rest on the viability of these atrocities.
Magni56 2 years ago
Only 1 former cia agent has come out against water boarding and he remains nameless. I tend to not believe sources that don't use their real names.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
Strawman simply means you don't have an answer.
"Torture has been proven ove rand over again to not be reliable in extracting anything but lies."
Citations needed
"the ticking-time-bomb scenario has been demolished a hundred times over."
citations needed
You haven't shown were anything has been debunked personal attacks definitely are not considered debunking.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
Its completely different you just can't deal with the reality of losing the argument. Come back when you have something meaningful to add to the conversation
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
"No this is my response to your personal attacks. See I let the first few personal insults go figuring you were just upset and posted comment before revising your comment but after the 3rd personal insult you were pretty much admitting you couldn't hold your own in the conversation"
Coming from the moron that never even brought up a real, factual answer to my points, this is truly rich.
I´m going to take your whining and your complete refusal to answer the points as a complete concession.
Magni56 2 years ago
Sorry you already lost
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
I heard this:
"If your child is kept with a terrorist and that terrorist is keeping them hostage, but the police has him in custody and they're willing to use advanced interrogation methods (aka waterboarding) wouldn't you use waterboarding to find infomation about your loss child?
ParasiteQueen1 2 years ago
Common liberal you can't defend your argument so you don't even answer or you just insult and cry.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
"Common liberal you can't defend your argument so you don't even answer or you just insult and cry."
Coming from you, that´s really rich. Concession accpeted.
Magni56 2 years ago
Say "Aye" or "Nay"
I, (Your name) agree to have obama let terrorists into America.
If your reply was "Aye" then please say this:
"I (meaning yourself) am an idiot!"
ParasiteQueen1 2 years ago
I wasn't laying blame as much as answering to that ridiculous 9/11 9/11 9/11 comment.
There's lots of blame to go around. I do think someone's driver does get to a know a person and what motivates them somewhat. Driver's become part of a person's family. Therefore I do believe that b. laden became more emboldened each time an attack was carried out succesfully and unpunished (as his driver pointed out).
flowerpower6161 2 years ago
Flower, your assertion that Clinton could have stopped 9/11 is just absurd. You sited bin Laden's driver in your argument. Sorry, bin Laden's driver is not an authority on U.S. national security. He's more likely to be a source of propaganda, don't you think?
VictorLaszloLives 2 years ago
No, I don't think that. I never said Clinton could have stopped 9/11...I said that there is plenty of blame to go around and...not making a concerted effort to eliminate him or his cohorts many times over was a contributing factor.
Please feel free to have the last word.
flowerpower6161 2 years ago
Flower, you liar! It's right there in your post.
"Clinton could have stopped bin Laden." -flowerpower
VictorLaszloLives 2 years ago
Excerpt from bin Laden's driver's conversation with FBI:
"The US could have killed bin Laden in Khartoum, before he moved to Afghanistan in 1996. They could have killed him after al Qaidas 1998 twin bombings at the US Embassys in Kenya and Tanzania. Or after the Oct 2000 suicide bombing of the USS Cole, in Yemen which left 17 U.S. sailors dead."
Instead, ''Bin Laden was emboldened.'' So he struck with the Sept 11, 2001, WTC attacks.
Clinton could have stopped bin Laden. Still laughing?
flowerpower6161 2 years ago
Flower, think about your source. Of course bin Laden's driver knew where he was. It's quite another for U.S. intelligence to know where he is at any given moment, as Bush administration officials will be glad to point out to you. Why would you choose to believe bin Laden's driver???
During the transition, the Clinton administration warned the Bush administration about the danger of bin Laden, and al Qaida. You can't blame 9/11 on Clinton, no matter how hard you try.
VictorLaszloLives 2 years ago
"NOT. ON. MY. WATCH" was the part where I started laughing hysterically.
Oh, and 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11...
notanaturalblonde 2 years ago
This video is politically ignorant fear mongering trash!! The PIGS responsible for uling it are trolls and should be spat upon for such trash.
SpookeyR 2 years ago
There should be an inquiry about the decision to allow torture. I don't care if you're Republican or Democrat....if you had knowledge of the torture and agreed to it...you should be prosecuted....we are better than that.
As to the prisoners at Gitmo.....if they can be proven to be terrorists or to have faught against us...prosecute them. To continue to hold people we can't prove to be anything but bystanders is anti-American.
wittumy 2 years ago 6
Do we really think cuba wants to house american pows? Don't we have supposed strained relations with Cuba anyway? This whole mess makes no sense........messy messy messy
61labwf 2 years ago
Some democrats also voted to suspend Habeas Corpus. They should be put on the hot seat for that, along with the republicans. It was unconstitutional, and they broke their oath to uphold the Constitution.
The breaking of the Constitution and our ideals of justice is not about party politics. It is about good government versus bad government.
VictorLaszloLives 2 years ago
Stay on topic
Less than one attack per year good for you guys. I'm glad you can tolerate the occasional murder of innocent civilians in the name of Allah but damn them American's with their confounded sensory manipulation. That must be why the German military sits in Afganistan drinking beer and eating sausage. I mean these guys just occasionally blow up neighborhoods whats the big deal doesn't everyone like fire works.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
"It's not "We may do it, because they do it, too!" I am showing u the difference between torture and sensory manipulation. Temporary fear of death vs actual death, big difference."
Torture isn´t deadly, you moron.
And no, waterboarding is NOT sensory manipulation. It is nothing else but a controlled drowning. There is no sensual manipulation, the victim is ACUTALLY drowning.
So stuff that sensory manipulation soundbite up your ass.
Magni56 2 years ago
"Torture isn't deadly, you moron."
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Water boarding is simulated drowning thus sensory manipulation.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
"Torture, however, is."
Sensory manipulation isn't torture
It's not "We may do it, because they do it, too!" I am showing u the difference between torture and sensory manipulation. Temporary fear of death vs actual death, big difference.
By the way that's the third personal attack against me which means you've lost this argument 3 times already.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
"Curious do think police should be able to use pepper spray or tasers or stress holds to subdue criminals. "
Are you moron honestly comparing toruture methods carried out agianst restrained people against police techniques/equipment used to restrain violent persons? Hell, this isn´t comparing apples to oranges, this is comparing apples to uranium.
Magni56 2 years ago
But pepper spray tasers and stress holds are inhuman. If I can't poor water on someones face to get information to save thousands of peoples lives then police shouldn't be able to use pepper spray to make their arrest a little easier.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
Stop being a coward and stand by your convictions. If u believe them to be harmless u should give them assilume to protect them from persecution from right wing douchebags like myself
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
"Stop being a coward and stand by your convictions."
Stop being a lazy, hypocritical douchebag and clean of your own mess instead of whining like a freakin baby and expecting the rest of the world to take responsibility for your actions.
Magni56 2 years ago
Hey I have no problem keeping gitmo open its you that wants it closed so if you want the building closed then you take the terrorists.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
Wether YOU, as the amoral douchebag that you are, have a problem with Gitmo is completely irrellevant.
And hey, better diea: Send them back into their home countries, from where you have kidnapped them in hte first place.
Otherweise, you keep them. You unrightfully detained them, you caused the entire mess, now you will stand for it. It´s time that assholes like you leanr the meaning of the word responsibility.
Magni56 2 years ago
Stop making your self look foolish we captured them on a battle field in a war zone several of them were on the most wanted list long before they were detained.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
Arborius, if they are criminals, then why haven't they been charged and tried? Maybe the government is hiding the lack of evidence, and the miscarriage of justice.
By the way, the civilized among us presume innocent until proven guilty. That is one of our strengths. Your willingness to scuttle our principles is a failure of courage. Thankfully, the American people as a whole are remembering who we are as a nation.
VictorLaszloLives 2 years ago
Because war is not a law enforcement issue.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
Arborius, even in war, there are laws. Holding people responsible for crimes without a trial is itself a war crime under the Geneva Conventions. You are advocating war crimes.
VictorLaszloLives 2 years ago
Oh, and by the way Arborius, the Supreme Court of the United States upheld the U.S. Constitution, protecting Habeas Corpus. The prisoners do have the right to challenge their imprisonment. Are you now going to subvert the Supreme Court and the Constitution?
VictorLaszloLives 2 years ago
"Because war is not a law enforcement issue."
And another concession accepted. Because if it´s war, then they are clearly POWs.
Guess what? Torturing POWs is agianst international law, against human rights AND against the geneva convention. And it were the very united states of america that had people court martialed and hung for this.
Your utter lack of morals as well as your hypocrisy is clearly showing.
Magni56 2 years ago
Sorry they are not uniformed soldiers and not being tortured. As mentioned many times enhanced interrogation is not torture stop repeating your same sorry arguments over and over.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
Yeah, right. Breathing water is not torture. Your flirtation with fascism is leaving you isolated. Haven't you noticed, there's hardly anyone left holding your position? Arborius, those who think like you are already marginalized.
VictorLaszloLives 2 years ago
Obama is putting money into the economy by printing it. In the next few yrs inflation is going to skyrocket. Remember that 1.7 tril surplus left to Bush that every lib was pissed that Bush gave back to the people(pissed but obviously they cashed the check) well Obamas first budget for 09 is a 1.8 tril deficit 4 times the deficit of 08. So yeah things will start looking better until the prices start going up. You can't print ur way out of a recession.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
"That must be why the German military sits in Afganistan drinking beer and eating sausage."
And this is relevant how? Not at all, you´re just desperately trying to distract from the topic because you have nothing to actually adress my points but lies, strawmen, dishonesty andmoronic soundbites.
Concesison accepted, you are demonstrately unable to even provide a proper argument.
Torture is utterly immorral AND not only useless, but responsible for more US deaths than 9/11. End of discussion.
Magni56 2 years ago
911 was planed on Clintons watch & we didn't discover enough information to stop 911 because Clinton cut our military & intelligence network in half.
Clinton left a recession after the dotcoms crashed Bush tax cuts brought us out of the recession.
The banking/housing crash Obama is working on at the moment is a result of policies from Carter made worse by Clinton that Bush asked congress to fix 17 times starting in April 2001& they tried to fix it but dems made it even worse
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
non of the water boarding done or mentioned was limited or monitored so yes every incident was more than likely over the top & qualified as torture. What the US did 3 times According to press accounts, a cloth or plastic wrap is placed over or in the person's mouth, and water is poured on to the person's head.
US version of WB sleep deprivation exposure to cool temperatures all sensory manipulations not war crimes. beheading people civilian shields suicide bombing civilians those r war crimes.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
"non of the water boarding done or mentioned was limited or monitored"
Irrellevant. Torture is torture, no matter how limited or monitored. Seriously, this has got to be the most stupid argument ever. "Hey, we only waterboarded them a wee bit, surely that doesn´t count!"
Guess what? The declaration of human rights (as ratified by Congress adn Senate) doesn´t think so.
"What the US did 3 times"
3 times? Man, you should try informing yourself. It´s more like hundreds of times by now.
Magni56 2 years ago
It's not torture its sensory manipulation
Yes 3 times plus we have water boarded our own soldiers in training exercises we also put our soldiers through a gas chamber as training. Curious do think police should be able to use pepper spray or tasers or stress holds to subdue criminals.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
"Considering that we over here managed to get by with these problems and, in a slow but steady process, marginalised said organisations to such a degree that they´re completely meaningless today, I´d say it would be a rahter good idea. "
I'm a bit confused, you're saying that we should continue to have problems with terrorists for decades on end because the problems are now marginalized? I'm not trying to be sarcasatic, I'm really trying to understand your position.
flowerpower6161 2 years ago
"I'm a bit confused, you're saying that we should continue to have problems with terrorists for decades on end because the problems are now marginalized?"
*facepalm* No. Rather because the methods used over here WORK. 7 years of the war against terror and al queida is, if at all, even more active and dangerous than they were in 2001.
Evidently, Bush´s methods have failed. The methods used by diverse european countries against their terrorist problems, however, worked.
Magni56 2 years ago
As seen, movements like the IRA, RAF, ETA and co. have been marginalised into being almost completely irrellevant to the very governments they try to actively fight against. I´d say that´s a pretty clear success. But, typically, the USA under Bush knew better and thought they could do it faster. As a result we have thoussands dead and trillions of dollars wasted and al Queida is still standing as strong as before. Because you yanks lacked the patience to do what has been proven to work.
Magni56 2 years ago
Terrorists in MY town?--no way, man.
Musicman4Christ 2 years ago
Seriously,Musicman, you actually buy this propaganda? Grow some, and question authority. It's gullible sods like you that allowed the subversion of our justice system, creating the problem of Guantanamo.
VictorLaszloLives 2 years ago
I try to question everything, esp. the current administration, don't worry. If you look at my comment, I was making a comical stance on the subject--and didn't resort to name-calling. All I did was mention about terrorists residing among civilians...nothing about Club Gitmo. Sorry about your misconception. Prayin' for ya.
Musicman4Christ 2 years ago
Musicman, if you want to question the Obama administration, here's a task for you. Make sure they do not leave a group of prisoners locked up without charges and without recourse. We must all demand justice, both for the guilty and the innocent.
In the future, I suggest you question every politician, not just the democrats.
VictorLaszloLives 2 years ago
Again, I try to question everything...Rush Limbaugh isn't always right, you know! Same goes for Nancy Pelosi.
It's amazing how someone can be briefed over 40 different times in the past couple years, yet not know a thing about it.
Musicman4Christ 2 years ago
this is pathetic, ungraceful fear-mongering. you people are complete fools. so long, constituents!
cokmobot 2 years ago 2
"Even though quite a few european country had a lot more problems with terrorism than the US for decades on end. "
Are you suggesting that we should follow the European's lead (or non-lead) and have problems with terrorism for decades on end?
flowerpower6161 2 years ago
"Are you suggesting that we should follow the European's lead (or non-lead) and have problems with terrorism for decades on end?"
Considering that we over here managed to get by with these problems and, in a slow but steady process, marginalised said organisations to such a degree that they´re completely meaningless today, I´d say it would be a rahter good idea.
Magni56 2 years ago
Europe's been attacked several times since 911 you over there haven't marginalized anything.
[citation needed] don't act like you haven't seen video read books or talked to people about ww2. All countries used harsher torture methods than water boarding not just Japan & Germany. If you want citations from me then u need to just start including them in each of your responses since 90% of what u say is suspect.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
"[citation needed] don't act like you haven't seen video read books or talked to people about ww2. All countries used harsher torture methods than water boarding not just Japan & Germany."
[citation needed]
Magni56 2 years ago
Every one of the comments u have made needs a citation then because u r not backing up anything u say.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
While the "weaker" version might have been used by the SS and Japanese, I doubt that is why any of them were HUNG for crimes against humanity. That is the point I was trying to make. Please don't mix apples and oranges.
flowerpower6161 2 years ago
I find it repulsive to see my fellow Americans justifying torture. Waterboarding is defined as torture ....it doesn't matter what your opinion is...it's illegal. It took a couple of thousand middle eastern punks to scare them into acts their parents didn't even resort to when Germany and Japan were close to world domination. Such bravery!
wittumy 2 years ago 2
Not on my watch either.
dedebiren 2 years ago
I think the WWII waterboarding some are referring to was conducted by Japan and consisted of having a person swallow rice and then give them water until their bowels erupted and they died. The other water torture executed by Japan consisted of forcing someone to drink water until their stomach was distended and then kicking them hard in their gut.
I'm not sure what solution Obama offered other than "We are going to close Guantanamo". That doesn't seem especially well thought out to me.
flowerpower6161 2 years ago
"I think the WWII waterboarding some are referring to was conducted by Japan and consisted of having a person swallow rice and then give them water until their bowels erupted and they died."
Actually, no. The japs, as well as some elements of the SS, also used the "weaker" version that the US now used in Gitmo. And yes, that one ALSO landed on the points they were brought before a court over.
Magni56 2 years ago
This video implies that terrorists are going to be released. Give me a break. Instead of preying on people's fears, the Republicans should really consider offering some solutions. The role of fiscal responsibility is ripe for the taking. Unlike this crap it might actually do the country some good.
If they really want a place for the prisoners, here in NH would be a great place. We'd like the money and if any escaped, half the state would hunt them down and kill them. No worries.
MadDanJr 2 years ago
Our system of justice has always been up to the challenge. What is lacking, Republican Senators, is your will to adhere to the principles of justice. Seven years of Guantanamo have failed. We don't need kangaroo courts. Charge the prisoners, present the evidence, allow the defendants lawyers, try them by Courts Marshal. Bring justice to the guilty, set free the innocent. Above all, let us see the process, as our democracy demands. Our system of justice is up to the challenge, are you?
VictorLaszloLives 2 years ago
RepublicanSenators,
Just want to shout out to the administrators of this channel. Hey guys! Pinky wave from the keyboard!
Thank you for providing this light comedy piece. It really does tickle my funny bone. I know that's not what you had in mind, but hey...if life hands you lemons, make lemonade.
Hope someday you will be given a Heart, like the Tin Man in the Wizard of Oz and you will no longer be Republicans. Until then, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
dogstar7 2 years ago
How will it repair the "damage"?
LandofDaFree 2 years ago
How about by showing that this kind of behaviour was not a standard modus operandi and that the entire US government doesn´t consist of the kind of asshole that would go as low as the people that envisioned gitmo and abu ghreib did.
Simply put, it sets a sign that the entire thing is not considered to be a-ok by the majority of the US.
Magni56 2 years ago
So you set the standard you described. How does that keep us safe? Guantanamo did not exist when the terrorists killed 3000 Americans on 9/11.
LandofDaFree 2 years ago
"So you set the standard you described. How does that keep us safe?"
a) It deprives al Qeida and co. from an easy source of new recruits.
b) It makes it more likely that the common muslims (the ones that aren´t fanatic assholes) will move against al Queida, even if just by single people giving clues to the US.
Magni56 2 years ago
"Guantanamo did not exist when the terrorists killed 3000 Americans on 9/11."
So? Seriously, how the hell is that relevant at all? It doesn´t change the fact that the detention center on gitmo has, if it had any impact on the war against terror at all, harmed the anti-terror efforts of the USA. Not to mention the kind of stain it left on the reputation of your nation worldwide.
Magni56 2 years ago
Releasing terrorists.
Hm that doesn't sound so smart.
I wonder does he understand that they have tried to attack or have attacked Americans.
Is it so much about international affairs that he should release dangers of society?
I'm not so sure about that.
SonsOfYesturday 2 years ago
"Releasing terrorists."
They´re not released. They´re transferred into the normal justice system. They´re still locked up. It´s just that they now get a lawyer, a court and aren´t tortured anymore.
"I wonder does he understand that they have tried to attack or have attacked Americans."
In fact, many gitmo inmates are only there because some afghani/iraqui warlord turned them over to the US, with said warlords word being the only indication of them having anything to do with al Queida.
Magni56 2 years ago
It makes a huge difference but I don't expect you to understand since you probably think water boarding is torchure you definitely wouldn't understand the added dangers of having these guys in your neighborhood would bring.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
"It makes a huge difference but I don't expect you to understand"
In other words, you are unable to come with a differrence and just trying to make up with empty rethorics.
"you probably think water boarding is torchure"
Ad hominem and poisoning the well fallacies.
"you definitely wouldn't understand the added dangers of having these guys in your neighborhood would bring."
That being? Because it makes sooo much differrence locking them up in Gitmo compared to Leavenworth, right?
Magni56 2 years ago
What is the purpose of closing Gitmo? Even if you disagree with the enhanced interrogation technics how does closing that facility change anything? You're blaming the building for what happened there. Why isn't your country taking any of these guys since there not a threat?
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
"What is the purpose of closing Gitmo?"
Not violating international law and human rights and not giving al Queida a daily propaganda victory.
"how does closing that facility change anything?"
It flushes the inmates into proper jurisdiction, where they ought to have landed in the first place.
"Why isn't your country taking any of these guys since there not a threat?"
...because we´re not the ones that saw it fit to imprison them in the first place.
Magni56 2 years ago
If Obama wants to avoid giving Al Queda "propaganda victories", why is he releasing interrogation pictures? How does that keep us safe?
LandofDaFree 2 years ago
Gitmo doesn't violate international law or human rights unless you're complaining about how the guards are treated then maybe you got something there. In a US prison general population they won't last a week I'm starting to like ur idea.
Proper jurisdiction is'nt in our normal justice system were you want them put.
why does that matter? You don't consider them a threat so let them live in your town. We'll pay for the plane ticket or does having these guys on a plane makes you nervous.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
"Gitmo doesn't violate international law or human rights"
Save for the torture or holding people without any kind of evidence or legal standing...
"In a US prison general population they won't last a week"
Pffft. That´s what the isolation tract is for. Not that the ones you actually have the slightest bit of evidence other than hearsay against wouldn´t get into the death row anyway.
Magni56 2 years ago
Gitmo is a building on an island if you want to restaff gitmo I support you. Don't blame a building for what happens in it.
We put them in isolation on gitmo you call it torchure we put them in isolation in a prison in the states and you call it protecting them. libs crack me up.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
"Gitmo is a building on an island if you want to restaff gitmo I support you. Don't blame a building for what happens in it."
*Sigh* Nobody´s blaming the freakin building. Only the decision to use it as the kind of illegal detnetion center. Seriously, nobody advocates closing the base or something, but just to shut down the detention center and let those suspects run through the normal juicidal system.
Magni56 2 years ago
then leave them there and change the staff. Their not talking about bringing them to American prisons some of them are going to be let go.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
"then leave them there and change the staff. Their not talking about bringing them to American prisons some of them are going to be let go."
Which happen to be the ones for who you don´t have the slightest bit of evidence of actually being in league with al Queida. Save for the say-so of the very afghan warlords that turned them in and got paid in cash for doing so.
Considering that cases like Murat Kurnaz already exist, this is pretty long overdue.
Magni56 2 years ago
"Which happen to be the ones for who you don´t have the slightest bit of evidence of actually being in league with al Queida."
So welcome them into Germany after all they are just falsely accused misunderstood and in the wrong place at the wrong time. You should welcome them.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
They r prisoners of war guess what our version of water boarding isn't the same as what the Japanese did in ww2. We don't dunk people until their stomach fills with water then punch them in the stomach we don't hold people under until they drown. We pour water on their face for 40 sec tops w/ medical personnel standing by. Its not the same thing that was condemned in ww2
I didn't cause a mess they declared war on the west about 20 yrs ago it just took 911 to piss people off enough to fight back
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
"Its not the same thing that was condemned in ww2"
Actually, it is. While those more brutal methods you outlined were also present, the "soft" waterboarding was just as much used. And it was just as explicitedly brought before the juries and saw the perpetrators hanged.
Magni56 2 years ago
Were ru getting this information? I don't believe for a second that the Japanese in ww2 limited water boarding to 40 seconds and had medical personnel present in case something went wrong. It seems you're just trying to argue for the sake of arguing. There's nothing wrong with what they have done at gitmo in fact to save lives I would advocate going further.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
"I didn't cause a mess they declared war on the west about 20 yrs ago it just took 911 to piss people off enough to fight back "
False. Gitmo is a mess the US created. Now it´s their job to clear it up.
Isn´t it telling that no other western country ever saw the need for an extraterritorial detention center in which they could hold suspects indefinitely without needing any evidence? Even though quite a few european country had a lot more problems with terrorism than the US for decades on end.
Magni56 2 years ago
Mangni, Gitmo is a problem we all need to confront. We can not rely on the people who subverted justice to set right their wrongs. Democracy is fragile, and we must always be vigilant. It amazes me that many republicans still advocate torture and imprisonment without trial, charges or even Habeas Corpus. Let them keep talking, and we will sweep them from Congress.
VictorLaszloLives 2 years ago
Magni, I thought you were from the U.S. I see now that you are holding the U.S. accountable, and I agree with you. Just be aware, not all of us rolled over and followed bad leadership. We are taking control of our country again.
VictorLaszloLives 2 years ago
"Just be aware, not all of us rolled over and followed bad leadership."
I know. It´s just the pretentious, uber-patriotic morons that grate my nerves.
Magni56 2 years ago
England interrogated prisoners in ww2 in what ever location they were captured in. They used methods far worse than water boarding to get the information they needed. I have no problem at all with gitmo i don't consider it a mess. I consider the media a mess I consider it a mess that water boarding is considered torchure by some yet they dumb Gatorade on the winning coaches head at the super bowl and that's a celebration.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
Dumping gatorade on somebody's head is not the same as pouring water into somebody's lungs. Try breathing water, and you'll understand.
VictorLaszloLives 2 years ago
Try breathing Gatorade.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
Do you think the coach breaths the gatorade? Is that the best comeback you can muster?
VictorLaszloLives 2 years ago
When I saw a water boarding demonstration they put plastic rap over the volunteers nose and mouth before they poured the water so the coach has a better chance of breathing Gatorade than the person being water boarded. Its sensory manipulation not torture.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
The prisoner doesn't have a plastic rap protecting them from the water. Waterboarding isn't "simulated" drowning. It is controlled drowning. Even by the Bush administration's definition of torture being at the level of organ failure, this is torture. The lungs are organs. Pouring water into the lungs causes organ failure. Water-boarding is torture. Go ahead, keep on talking, you'll help bury the republican party.
VictorLaszloLives 2 years ago
Oops my bad its not plastic it's cloth
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
Wow, I can´t evne begin to describe just how moronic an ad this is. Were it not in this very youtube channel, I´d be inclined to believe that it´s satire.
Seriously, this idiocity is fearmongering in it´s basest form.
Magni56 2 years ago
Liberals preach about the world ending because we drive SUV's and then call this fear mongering that's hilarious.
ArboriusOwns 2 years ago
"Liberals preach about the world ending because we drive SUV's and then call this fear mongering that's hilarious."
1. Straw man AND ad hominem fallacies.
2. You don´t adress the point.
Magni56 2 years ago
Best ad I've seen in years!! Have you all forgotten about what happened on 9-11 you liberal cowards!!!!! What a bunch of IDIOTS we have running this country! We should impeach Obama before he gets us all killed and fire everyone in Congress and start over again! Pelosi is a JOKE!!! That bitch should be shot!!!!!!!!
imabeatlelover 2 years ago
It is called FEMA detention centers..
HomesteadProvocateur 2 years ago
Really?
Bahahahahahaahaaaaa!
dogstar7 2 years ago
Regional hate, eh?
How much other projecting?
CNN? MSNBC? WTF???
dogstar7 2 years ago
Hate? You mean like that kind of hate that Obama learned at his racist church? That kind of hate?
HokiesAndDawgs 2 years ago