Rowing the Concept2 ergometer

[dobbo996]

makeminelarger - the setting is correct to mimic the 'feel' of on-the-water rowing. It makes me laugh, and cringe, when I see people whack the lever up to 10 because they think it's the 'hard' setting. Contrary to popular belief, increasing the setting does not increase resistance but rather alters the 'feel' of the stroke. Setting 3-4 is correct for most purposes. The correct ratio (drive:recovery) is 1:3 rather than 1:1 as used by non-rowers. Lot of poor technique out there.

[GavinJones94]

try and reach more at the catch :D great technique though!

[bepmommy]

Makeminealarge1 Send in a video of you rowing and then you can comment. Until then open another bag of chips and enjoy your couch surfin! lmao

[michaelyblam]

LOOK CLOSER! It's a drag of about 126 or about resistance level 3. It's recommended international standard for lightweight rower to train on. BIG Olympic rowers of 220 pounds row with a drag factor of about 140. Setting resistance level @ 10 is unrealistic unless you specifically use it for resistance training. A even lower drag factor is often chosen when racing...it's like riding a TT on a bike with a high cadence. More efficient than riding the same TT with a lower gear + lower cadence.

[teewoods]

@makeminealarge1

you are so ignorant its a joke! typical noon who has no idea about rowing! i see them in the gym putting it on 10 thinking they are rowing lol!! learn about drag knucklehead!

[matt1746]

@makeminealarge1 It's not resistance, it's damper. Pulling the same split with any damper setting is the same amount of work.

Basically, you couldn't be more wrong.

[Mzahaka1313]

@makeminealarge1 actually when i do it, i find no big difference, i do it on 6.5 (if that makes sense)

[MrRobertEdmondson]

It's all prototype stuff right now. Turns the old family sedan (the Concept 2 ergometer) into a sports car.

[MrRobertEdmondson]

Twenty-five years of pulling on a rigid stick of a handle! Causes angulation of the wrists at the finish, stressing those joints. There's a better way. See the "Canadian Slidewinder" on YouTube.

[michaelyblam]

Are you selling it?

[Darkbluemoonbars]

pretty good. but maybe go a little farther up at the catch

[michaelyblam]

Thanks very much for the comment. I know - flexibility is a BIG problem with me. I am working on a longer catch. I also have relatively weak torso and upper body strength that I know I need to work on!

[karldiesen]

Come on, lightweights. Lets unite and change the rules so the restriction isn't on weight (72.5kg), but on height instead (180cm). Having weight restrictions just encourages unhealthy dieting and avoiding strength training. Anyway: body height is a much better predictor than body weight for potential performance. Anyone can gain muscle mass (weight), but no one can alter their height!

[ptrdwntr]

Hi you all. I'm a 53 year old injured middle distance runner. Haven't run much for some time now and been rowing (indoor) a bit lately. I'm participating in the Fitness First Shape-Up Challenge. Just finished a 1.35 500m on the Concept2 after running 20 minutes on the treadmill at 13.5 km/h. Would love to improve on that but don't really know how to go about it. I have about 3 weeks to go before the finals ... By the way, I love weight training.

[terenhas]

pulling into the lap, you should pull into your sternum, also delay opening your back so soon. timing with your arm break seems fine. as a last bit, try to go up to the catch in reverse order of going through the drive, so arms away, then back, then the slide.

[zapdoodat]

I believe you are using and opening your back too soon at the catch.

Ideally, keep your spine slightly forward and kept slightly forward (at the same angle) while you drive your legs at the catch. Do not start to engage your back until you have not much slide left.

[michaelyblam]

Thanks for commenting. I don't quite understand?! How do you loose power by straigthening your legs. I mean at the catch you YANK your legs with power and it's only NATURAL to straigthen them is it not? Conversely speaking, not to straigthen them would be UNnatural!

[terenhas]

i think he means when you have hit the finish, your legs pops down an extra inch, which delays your going back up to the catch. You shouldn't put your legs down to where they would be locked, but close.

[karldiesen]

Try to grow taller somehow. Rowing is all about body height. You gain a couple of seconds per 2000m for every cm that you grow. But being short, apparently the best way to gain speed is doing a high stroke rate at a low damper setting.

[karldiesen]

Try to grow taller somehow. Rowing is all about body height. You gain a couple of seconds per 2000m for every cm that you grow. But being short, apparently the best way to gain speed is doing a high stroke rate at a low damper setting.

[p3k111]

I think u are losing a lot of power in legs by straightinging them on end of the pull ... and i think u lose a lot of power ... its not good for races ... but for exercise it is

[musicstudioguy]

I just rowed 30 min. with damper setting 5 on a similar machine and went 7,630 meters. Is that considered good?

[roadstar50]

It's all relative - yes it's good for a novice rower and yes, it proves you're in relative good shape. it's not good however for a seasoned rower. It's like asking is a 6 minute mile for a runner good..

[musicstudioguy]

What is considered a good 30 min. row distance for seasoned rower?

[roadstar50]

Many factors, age, weight, etc.. according to the concept 2 ranking page a distance of 7800 meters will put you in the top 150 times for 2008 for a heavyweight for a male between 30-39. Best confirmed distance this year is 9017 by Xeno Muller, Olympic Gold/silver medalist. Your time of 7630 is the 808th best time this year for all ages. To sum up, your time is one to be proud of but plenty of room to better..

[musicstudioguy]

I'm 6'4" weight 205 and am 49 years old - so I will strive to at least break 8000 by next April when I turn 50.

Thanks for the info!

[manlikeswitcher]

Thats pretty good. But if you want a good challenge try 30 mins @ r20

[roadstar50]

215lbs and 6'2".. At end of work out today sustained 1:22 for 40 sec.. I'm sure I can now break 1:30 for 500M. Will try to do so at end of month and post video. based on result today 1:26/1:27 may be possible. If you do light weights/high reps you will not gain weight. Remember work large muscle groups - back, legs, chest. Deadlift compliment my rowing. Also - stay on structered program, change it frequently and no more than 1hr a day to avoid over training.

[mcronrev]

1.22 at the end is very impressive. I recently purchased a model E C2, great machine. I need more advice training. I am 6" 5 and about 260lbs. My fastest times are 1.24.9 500m, 3.12.2 1000m, 6.49.7 2000m & 5000m 17.59.2. I know I could physically do much better I just need to get fitter, improve on technique and breathing.

[roadstar50]

Wow, great times. there is a wealth of information/programs etc on the concept2 website.. I find squats and deadlifts improve my times. If you threw in a good weight training program with your erg training, you would be in the elite with your times. Good luck.

[michaelyblam]

What's your height and weight? I am 5ft 10 1/2 inches (179cm) and weigh 173 pounds thus I race lightweight on the erg. I am quite afriad that if I do too much weight training I would shoot over 165 pounds. Guess I can be more discipline on my diet etc.

[roadstar50]

Replied to your email.. Love of beer/wine/whiskey is non issue depending on training goals. I too love beer/wine and as long as your not training to be a Michael Phelps its all good. Weight training compliments so many daily activities and beyond popular believe it's not boring. Get an ipod good music and do not spend more than 1 hr in the gym 5/6 times a week with a good program, thats all it takes. focus weight training on large muscle groups.. forget bicepts, calves etc, waste of time

[roadstar50]

I just started erg rowing about 4 months ago after years of consistant weight and cardi training.Best work out imaginable and have picked up many tips from comments left for you. To date my best times are 7:14 2K and 1:33 500M - I'm positive these could be bettered by the end of the year. I've had tendonitis from weight training and I'm suprised this doesn't seem to be an issue with the erg with the continual constant motion. Goals are sub 7:00 2K and 1:28 500M.

[michaelyblam]

Well done! May I ask about your age, sex, height, weight etc. You can communicate with me through my personal email at michaelyblam(at)hotmail(dot)co­m. My technique is better now and I am aiming to break my 2,000m time of 7:21. Breaking my collar bone earlier this year means I am even more determined to prove that I can do it but it's mighty tough. Please communicate with me!

[michaelyblam]

I see you are from Canada too and is similar to my age! Please can you also share with me my your weight training experience. I never did any weights until perhaps just very recently but only with power squarts and nothing else! My problem is relatively weak upper body and torso but strong on the legs. I am also OK cruising mid-distance but lacks anaerobic fitness. Most of all, my greatest weakness is I love beer, wine and whisky too much!!!

[LetsNotCut]

when you coming forward up the slide

don't bend your knees until your hands have passed them

[michaelyblam]

Thanks! I know - this is EXACTLY what everyone is pointing out. I am working on it DAILY. It's quite hard to kick the bad habits even though it's a split second difference. I have to consciously re-program myself! I am also working on my lower back flexibility. I am NOT too flexible a person!

[dlyubas]

great technique but there's a few things: dont use ur back until ur knees are almost straight - ur using the back before u finish with the legs. otherwise, great job!

[michaelyblam]

I don't quite understand what you mean...are you saying I start swinging my back backwards before my knees are straight? How do I go about to correct that?

[PrankCentral101]

ok, first of all...you need to get your hands out fast and lean forward before your slide up to the catch. next, reach as far forward as you can so you can get more distance for every stroke. and finally, pull the handle up higher in your chest, you'll get more power that way. and just curious...whats your best 2K?

[michaelyblam]

Hello. I thought I replied but obviously I didn't. THANKS a MILLION for your advise. What you pointed out is exactly my problem. My best time last year is 7:21. I am aiming to get down around 7:05 this year...

[Badchoicesmade]

That is an old school erg. What was your average split?

[michaelyblam]

This is a model-C. I belong to a 'cheap' gym and they have not so well run equipments! It depends. Go to Concep2(dot)com and see my rankings. You will see my splits. From 1:55 to 2:08 depending on the distance I row.

[Grunwald55]

gets your hands out faster before you bring your legs up

[michaelyblam]

You are absolutely bang on! THANKS YOU. I totally agree with you. I am working to rebounce my arms before I break my legs (make it unnatural to isolate it into 2 separate movements) and then I am trying to stretch out as much as possible at the catch. Right now I am using a low drag in order to focus on technique.

[Oodstech]

Its the bodyrock here. you're rocking all the way up the side.

Try doing some arms body slide exercises.

You will note that your legs should break naturaly at a certain point in your body rock, this is when your thighs are at tension. this adds power to your stroke. you should feel quite stretched at the catch.

if this is the natural point at which your legs break as you rock foward, I suggest some stretching.

[mpaw527]

Pull in straight, not in an arc. Sounds like youre pulling pretty well. Good work.

[eaglesfan37]

try a quicker arms away

[Brije078]

hey mate, just at the end of your stroke your trunk needs to follow after hands away, your legs are coming up just a tad too early...Your trunk should be atleast 90 degrees or more before your knee joints flex.

Good luck!

[michaelyblam]

Thank you so much for pointing this out. Again, this is something I know but just cannot do it even when I am conscious and make a point to move my body forward after the hands are straight during the recovery. I think a lot of this has to do with flexibility issue. Perhaps I should do some yoga or aerobic classes or stretch more? I am naturally a very stiff person! At the moment I am purely focusing on recovering from the collar bone accident trying to preserve as much cardio as possible.

[csthundercat]

the way my coach taught me to remember was, your hands should be just over your knees when they start to bend... also you can lean into the catch another 2 inches or so. if you get those techniques right you will get "better scores" if you care about that kind of thing...

[michaelyblam]

Of I care about it very much - anything that can shave a second or two is always welcome. Besides I need to translate that to a real sculling baot which is really my love of the sport. Sadly - not allow to row for another 2 months due to a bad collar bone injury!

[PoWerExcesS]

This is a pretty good breakdown of the basics I ran across!

watch?v=UXnKyJdA01w

[PoWerExcesS]

Concerning the catch: If you feel a jolt on your lower back or knees you need to make it smoother. Try bending your knees more it will help you ease the catch because of the rebounce it will give you.

Good luck with the collar bone mate. You look like a pretty determined athlete. That's all it takes really!

[PoWerExcesS]

First things first. You're moving your back while driving with the legs, and you come in pulling with the arms too early.

Your back should not move until your legs are fully extended. The same goes for your arms, don't pull until you're leaning back a bit.

On the recovery do it the other way around. Stay still moving only arms until they fully extend, then lean forward, and break knees only when your hands are well past over the knees. You got a good sense of timing on your recovery though! :)

[michaelyblam]

Thank you for your constructive comments. I will practise to ISOLATE my stroke. I made a point to increase my flexibility before the accident now all that work is down the drain and I have to start all over again when I get better. I will practise Arms only, Arm/Back, 1/4, 1/2 3/4 etc. Bought a set of training DVD from Xeno Muller so I can watch it copying the timing and strokes etc. Now I am just purely focusing to savage as much cardio fitness by cycling upright indoor and walking.

[pangtsr]

Your catch needs to be smoother otherwise you'll hurt your back. More flexibility, and man you have to work on your separation. Make sure you isolate legs, back and arms. :)

Keep it up!

Get well soon...

[michaelyblam]

Thank you kindly for your comments. Here are my questions: How do I work on a smoother catch? I thought my catch is quite smooth that I try to push my legs n drive when my arms are straight in the shortest possible time. Also,I will definitely work on the separation when I get back as my upper body strength is ruined by the collar accident so I will have to slowly build up the components when(if) I get better. As of April 9th, x-rays showed the collar bone still separated by 4cm!

[el3m3nt43]

thats pretty good technique! like the others said more compression with the legs, and think like this think off your chest as head lights and you have to light everything up infront of you. and hey im in vancouver too, what gym is this?

[michaelyblam]

Thanks...sadly I am badly injured since 17th Feb 2008 from a cycling accident. I am suffering from a severed collar bone with a 4cm displacement plus other wounds...so I cannot row and race for the rest of 2008 (perhaps rest of my life?).

The gym is the River Club at No.5 / Steveston in Richmond, BC. As you see from the other vid, I also rowed with a Model B with/without a pair of slides at home.

I am very depressed and frustrated just now...

[theSculler]

Hi Michael. Just to give you the thumbs-up... Mahe Drysdale also injured his spine a few months before winning the World Champs in the 1x once again, and is now running for the Olympics.

Good luck for your recovery!

Giovanni

[michaelyblam]

Thanks my fellow sculling friend. As of yesterday, my doctor told me my recovery is slow but she said my general mobility is excellent upon checking up on me. Do you race yourself? Do you erg? Do you use the Concept 2 site? I highly recommend it. Logging my time etc. there really helped me through the winter. I am trying to cycling indoor upright and do some brisk walking...other than that I cannot run, swim, row or cycling outdoor...EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING for a competitive athlete...

[boltfw]

You are not bending your knees enough, try and bend them as much as possible towards the monitor. But keep it up. And make sure that you stretch properly beforehand especially your lower back muscles as they can be seriously buggered up!! Keep it up!

[michaelyblam]

All the kind (constructive) comments from rowers via youtube or from private emails are pointing to the same problem: My knee and lower back flexibility. I need to work on my flexibility. I feel that I loose my 'proper' form somewhat especially at the catch when I begin my catch too close to the cage. Not only will me arms become unsteady/shaky but also I loose out the brute driving force from my feet/legs. The feel becomes unnatural...Please make further suggestions. THANKS A MILLION!

[GhostMint]

You're showing off! Your cardio level is daunting. I stick to a pretty full weight program, I keep my reps on the high side and always increase reps three or four times before I increase my weight, but I'm always impressed by you intense marathon guys. I keep meaning to work a regular cardio element into my system but I am lazy too, haha. I don't get out to jog nearly as much as I want to, but I do stay lean, it's easy when you are vegetarian and don't eat dairy.

[michaelyblam]

Hello Ghost Mint - Far from it! I am NOT showing off and I have no natural endurance but am a natural sprint/fast twitch athlete. I am putting up this video so that people can criticise my bad rowing form and thus I can improve myself especially before the spring when real rowing starts. I rowed 18 years ago but stopped for 17 years then came back last summer. I stay fit too as I taste so much alcohol everyday. The two do NOT compliment each others but that's life!

[ironoarsman]

There is a stretch you can do that works the glut muscles. Lay on your back and cross one leg over the other, and pull both legs back with your arms, keep the small of your back on the ground flat. From what I see on the vid, you have length to spare without going into discomfort.

[michaelyblam]

XENO. Again...thank you from the bottom of my heart for your advice and your valuable time. Chinese dim sum on me when you come to Vancouver! I don't quite understand what you mean by "Keep the small of your back on the ground flat." 1. I lie falt on the floor crossing my legs; 2. I bend up and use arms to pull the tip/toes of my feet and at the same time? Is that what you mean?

[ironoarsman]

I love your enthusiasm.

I think the best all around stretch for you on the ergo would be to put down the handle and hold on to the frame which supports the arm of the performance monitor. Sit there for thirty seconds and do this stretch every eight to ten minutes of rowing.

[ironoarsman]

One more thing.

It is pretty normal to have the quads touch the chest at the catch. You still have plenty of room for that. Reach for the catch, you will be much faster.

XENO

[michaelyblam]

I know...again I am inflexible. I will do much vertical stretch with the erg. At home I row with a model B I bought while I lived in the UK. The one in the vid is a old model C. My B floats on slides and it's even harder to control at the catch.

[ironoarsman]

Touching the cage with the handle is not a MUST, but it gives you the idea of rowing longer. All the best, I know you can do this after watching your vid.

XENO

[michaelyblam]

Big Xeno my Swiss hero! This raises another quetion: You know my height (179cm) and built (173-177 pounds)from the Concept2 profile so I am asking what drag/damper setting I should use when I row normally (125-130?). I will work on a full slide...I need to get flexible!

[ironoarsman]

So at the finish I would sit up a little more, and get a bit more forward body angle before the knees rise on the recovery. But truly, you will gain a lot of power by rolling further into the catch when you compress the legs to the point of being on the balls of your feet. Try to touch the cage with the handle at the catch.

[michaelyblam]

Again Xeno. You are just SO EXPERIENCE! I am VERY impressed! I know I have a problem bending the forward angle before beraking my knees. This is a problem I knew a long time but I have felxibility problem on this. I need PRACTICAL advice to correct it. I also have a problem of sitting with a curled back rather than sitting up straight. A case of bad posture from my everyday bad habit! Any advice?

[ironoarsman]

your friend did a good job filming. You are sitting at the finish with your shoulders tight.

The wooden handle does not help this, the newer handle is wider and can give you a more relaxed arm shoulder posture. The goal is to move the handle to the body making th elbows travel with the contraction of the lat muscle.

[michaelyblam]

OK Xeno. I don't quite understand this point. I don't feel my shoulders tight at the finish?! Perhaps I should make a point to leave them extra relax. Can you elaborate this: "To move the handle to the body making th elbows travel with the contraction of the lat muscle." Thank my BIG Swiss hero!

[ironoarsman]

Ok, no problem.

You row at 3/4 slide length. You compress the legs while the heels stay on the foot board. Full slide length is when you roll onto the ball of the foot.  For an exercise stretch by holding the vertical arm to which performance monitor is attached.

[michaelyblam]

Wow! Xeno, you say exactly what i knew you would say here. I have been rowing like 3/4 slide length and I knew it. I knew I was not reaching further at the catch to get thighs touching my chest. My problem - I become VERY inflexible after reaching 3/4 slide and also losses the 'good form' at the catch. Please suggest good stretches and exercises to remedy this. Yoga? Certain positional streches?