ProudlyEccentric vs. Gretchen Carlson & Bill O'Reilly - Atheists Deserve Rights, Too!

[donutsndingleberries]

Idiot...

[TJis16]

Proudly Eccentric I seriously love this video. I have to ask: are you at university or what? Commented on this video like two years ago, thought it was brilliant then, brilliant now. FFS tell me you're still fighting the good fight.

[bigpayne10]

Theres plenty of supporintg evidence that christainty started as a fertility cult and a group of people celebrating psilocybin mushrooms and that jesus never existed. research it

[singingcowboy674]

...a hate crime. Now, they weren't being disparaging or inciting violence toward gays like the apostate Westboro; no, they were simply carrying signs saying God hates homosexual sex and that it's wrong, but there was forgiveness in Christ. I'd really like you to do a video speaking out for these folks that were facing 30 years in the federal pen. As well as a 90k fine. Thank GOD the charges were dropped after pressure on the prosecutor from the community.

[singingcowboy674]

In truth as far as she's concerned anyway (the clip about the "good ol days", segregation had already taken place and women had the same rights as they have now. So, that was a little off point. Now, I agree it was like that when Bill was growing up. So, I'll have to be neutral on that one. But what I wonder if you would do a video on regarding freedom of speech and expression, is on the group of 6 or 7 protesters at a tax payer funded gay pride rally who, just due to their speech was charged w/

[singingcowboy674]

Not impressed by the language you used, but, I must give you props on your accuracy regarding the origin of the holiday. You'd be proud to know I'm sure that God hates Christmas. And Easter. And Halloween. I do believe they went over the top on that one and I'm glad you speak up. But I wonder the motives. Was it to celebrate something or was it just to "stick it" to the Christians? Don't know many pagans that celebrate festivus, gotta be honest. Now. I pose a question to you PE. Next...

[NIch43]

@singingcowboy674 dont forget midgets. god hates those too

[singingcowboy674]

@NIch43 Midgets? Umm. Don't know. Haven't heard that one. But glad you responded. But really, would you be willing to do a piece on those protesters to show there is evil on both sides of the argument?

[singingcowboy674]

@NIch43 I'll be happy to give you the link to the story...Just let me know...

[Brenda2OOO]

Festivus makes just as much sense as Christmas. More, maybe. It's not the 'Christmas season", Gretchen, it's winter solstice season. The season of the sun's rebirth. Please don't disrespect something so amazing with your donkeys and mangers and wandering kings.

[timidturtle88]

I don't believe that Bill would be any less outraged if Atheists put up a sign expressing evolution next to the nativity scene. And by the way, how nice it must be to be a white, Christian, heterosexual male...on top of the food chain no matter what. It's a good thing not everyone thinks like these idiots or all minority viewpoints would be squashed.

[FWYGINOND]

this chick has some problems...

[soonerock]

This girl not only is sitting on a stool but a public bathroom? Graffiti background, trashy graffiti on the wall? This little crack whore has no credibility, at all.

[soonerock]

This girl is in the bathroom sitting on the toliet... WTH? What a dumbass.

[BIJMOZ]

yay. yay.

[AdamKaoru]

85% of Americans are Christians? That really depends how you qualify a Christian. I do not think 85% of Americans are truly Christian or religious in ANY way. Probably more like 30% of Americans are really Christian, and actually go to church and practice their religion. That other 55% just comes from Christian roots but they don't even practice their religion aside from Christmas.

[mrgetrealpeople]

HEY GRETCHEN Guess what I got to see growing up, Blacks being beaten by Christian rednecks, and being attacked by  Police Dogs ,and being made to sit in the back of the Bus, having to drink from separate waters fountains ,and your kids have to see a sign saying religion is mythology, THE HORROR,THE HORROR

[phouie50]

You are an obnoxious foul mouth moron who has the IQ of a Goya bean And wretched you can explain adultery to. Your kids when they find out mommy was swapping body fluids with a married man, that home wrecking sanctimonious bitch

[notfalling334]

i want to kill those motherfuckers at fox news!!! stupid fucking motherfuckers i want them to shut the fuck up! fuck!!! these people can show a banana up their fucking asses!!!!!!!!

[AudioIndi]

Gretchen is a horrible crocodile.

[RPKGameVids]

How come you have graffitied your wall?

[bricbob1986]

and by the way blonde cunt, the season of christmas has taken over any other belief in their god, it even gets in the way of halloween! It is sad that religion is so powerfull that it makes its believers fear to question it, because they may go to hell. witch is a smart and evil way to force someone to follow your beliefs and give you money. its a scam people, grow up. you think santa in the north pole is crazy and fake, but a man in the clouds making the same naughty and nice list is real?

[bricbob1986]

this bitch is retarded, she says we cant show that we dont believe in god by having signs near a nativity scene...when all they are doing is being biased and fighting freedom of speach, just because they still believe in fairy tales she tries to say that freedom of speech is going too far because its finally acceptable to say "hey, i dont believe in god, and im not going to hell". but idiots like this cant accept freedom so they have to express more fear. well done idiots

[TheJcp1234]

You are an airhead. Oh my god.

[CheekyVimto08]

good video

[drjackflash]

You are over the top. Christmas is a Christian holiday. Festivus is a made up holiday. And don't bring up the bogus that Christians stole the winter festival. You have the right to put up a festivus sign inside a nativity scene. You are whacko!! She is right, it is mockery of a religion not freedom of speach. Get your own holiday and put it on a date thats not on the same date as ours. What a ridiculous straw man argument you are making. What are you, five years old?

[pillsareyummy]

@drjackflash "She is right, it is mockery of a religion not freedom of speach." Hate to break it to you, however mockery of religion is allowed since it has to do with 'freedom of speech'. Also, much of christian dogma and practises were 'lifted' from religions that came before it. Even the story of Christ isn't original, since it can be found in tales that predate Christ (Apollonius of Tyana for example). However, I wouldn't have placed a fesitvus sign inside a nativity scene either.

[saosaosaoy]

well said my friend....

[StirItUP1973]

I love Gretchen "ATHIEST RAWRAWRAWR THEY'RE HORRIBLE AND THEY'RE IMMORTAL RAWRAWRAWR - What? You said something about Christianity? RIDICULOUS!" Hypocrite in the highest degree.

[Xytos]

please dont mock her. she is only defending her god (innocently).

[Xytos]

im sorry. do you live in pakistan or the ghettos?

[Superslemmet]

@dobill07 If my children should die before me, I would be devastated. However, a fundamental truth about the world is that my feelings do not effect it. It doesn't matter how unfair I might find gravity to be, it will still affect me just the same.

I can't wish the summer to last longer than last year.

It doesn't matter how much I wish for my children to be alive. In the example, they are not. It doesn't matter what my opinion of the world is, a fact is a fact, however much it might suck.

[Superslemmet]

... "No, it's not me who is at fault here, it's that the answer is Ungraspable! I don't understand this, so this must be where Gods steps in."

It's ok to not understand very complex things. We can't all be Schroedinger or Einstein, but it's not ok to say that because you don't understand something, no one can understand it. Thats what applying to God is.

[Superslemmet]

It doesn't really explain anything, because it always ends up with us trying to explain God, and because it's impossible by definition to explain the properties of something that doesn't exist, we are stuck.

When I hear someone use God as an explanation, I think they are arrogant. Instead of admitting that they have come across a problem they don't understand, they say...

[Superslemmet]

And they observe and experiment, and in the end come up with an explanation that is useful. Suddenly God didn't do it, because we understand how it works.

But all the things we don't know the answer for is still Gods great work.

And on it goes, for every passing year, what we attribute to God shrinks, because we understand the world better and better.

This comes from the problem that attributing anything to "God" is a non-answer.

[Superslemmet]

@dobill07 But science has proved that something can come from nothing. Heck, a dude won a Nobel prize for it already.

I'll explain my position a bit more, so you can see where I'm coming from. Throughout history, people have observed the world, and wondered how and why it is the way it is. For most of our history, the answer to all things was "God did it".

But not everyone was satisfied with that answer. Some people want to know more.

[Superslemmet]

@dobill07 And evil deeds do go unpunished. I know it might feel a bit better to "know" that evil people get what's coming to them in the afterlife, but seriously, they don't.

The only way evil people get what they deserve is if we make sure they get real negative consequences.

The only ones that can make this world a better place are us, the ones living in it.

You know what they say, "A single pair of hands at work does more good than a thousand hands clasped in prayer". :P

[Superslemmet]

@dobill07 That's just a play on words.

Molecules and atoms interact, and combine in different ways depending on the environment.

Compare the plausibility that, by chance, during the vast time-scale we are talking about, some molecules interacted in such a way that the new molecule could interact with other molecules and make copies of itself. Pit this against the plausibility that there exists an omnipotent being outside time and space that one day got the idea, "hey, lets make a world!"

[Superslemmet]

@dobill07 No, I know people are the writers of books. We have so far found no one who "makes" DNA from scratch, so your assessment that someone has to make DNA is flawed.

And I really do not believe in any gods or faeries or unicorns. I believe in stuff that can be proven, and stuff that we can't prove is something that we have no reason to believe.

I do not believe in an afterlife.

Evil actions have consequences if we, today, make sure they have consequences.

[Superslemmet]

@dobill07 Well, the only logical answer to the question "How did it all start?" is that it MUST have come from nothing. All other answers require something to have existed before the start, meaning the start wasn't really the start.

Ever heard about quantum physics?

If you are interested in how this strange statement works, search for "lawrence krauss" on youtube. Pick the first hit, and for the short explanation go to 32:30.

Of course, the entire lecture is very nice, but that's just my opinion

[Superslemmet]

@dobill07 The age of a text has no bearing whatsoever on the worth of the thoughts expressed therein.

As you said "judge things by their own merit and wisdom".

The bible talks of prosperity, but that is not the same as delivering results. I don't care much for fancy talk, I care about results, and the bible time and time again fail to deliver.

Saying "everyone is happy" does not make everyone happy. Cause and effect you know?

[Superslemmet]

@dobill07 Haha, you just crack me up. You have to take scales into account.

If i say, "this stick is 10 meters long, give or take 1mm" I have the same margin of error as saying it is 10000 km, give or take 1 km.

The age of the earth is 4.54 × 10^9 years ± 1%.

1% of 4.54 × 10^9 is 4.54 × 10^7.

That's 45400000 years. Much more than your hundreds or thousands.

And yes i said "phat", and a tongue in cheek expression. I guess it was a little bit much for you to handle?

[Superslemmet]

@dobill07 Oh, and btw, I study energy physics at university-level, and will soon have my masters.

I know how carbon dating works. I have worked with radioactive isotopes and know for a fact both that it works and why it works. I somehow doubt you know and can explain why it doesn't work. And if it didn't work, I wouldn't need phat protective gear when dealing with radioactive materials.

I know it works, I have tested and used its effect numerous times.

[Superslemmet]

@dobill07 Read what I wrote again. Nowhere do I say that the ancient Greek philosophers pre-date Judaism. Plato for example lived around 400 BC.

What I am saying is that those Greek thinkers did not have any access to the old testament, because it was strictly for Jews as the time.

Democracy, freedom of speech and empirical science are all ideas derived from ancient Greece, not the bible.

We have them to thank for our prosperity, not the bible, since its message is quite the opposite.

[JUANMO94]

great video!!

[pawndominance1]

gretchen is almost scary stupid...the fact that she is on TV is insane

[angie9222]

great video, you are so smart! im your fan :D

[go30tigers7]

So...Gretchen is going to shelter her children and turn them into little brainwashed demons..oh fun...

[Superslemmet]

@dobill07

Where did you get this from? Have you for example read any of the ancient Greek texts? Or maybe some old texts from Asia?

Especially the Greek had very advanced morality, and our western morality is derived directly from ancient Greek texts, not the bible.

It's not a random fluke that Europe rose from the dark ages following the recovery of Platos books by Europeans, who adapted the message to semi-conform with the bible.

Read some of it before you bash it, you will be surprised.

[123Larra]

That woman is such a whore, I personally cant stand gretchen carlson

[Mike28115]

@123Larra thank you thank you thank you. She's on my hate list beneath Nancy Grace

[dustindpdp]

Why are atheists some of the ugliest damn people on the planet? Christians definitely have the upper hand in the looks department.

[angie9222]

jajajajaja great argument about the video...right

[grant5829]

athesit should make a "NEGATIVITY scene" with a sign and statues and stuff somewhere else and leave the "NATIVITY scene" alone

[angie9222]

and...why? Just because christians want it?

[TJis16]

proudly eccentric I think the message in this video is so good and very funnily put together.

They completely miss the point that you should be tolerant and allow free (within reason) speech

[mrx0066600]

You should have flashed to a bunch of racist bullshit videos of people being segregated when she started to talk about her children growing up and being denied what she experienced. Good old fashioned racism and bigotry.

God what a bitch that Gretchen is.

[XxgrayfoxXXX]

why the fuck would we do that its fucking stupid fuck bill maher he isnt the atheist king... ignorant fuck

[XxgrayfoxXXX]

Where's our pole...?

[Claronium780]

I can understand people putting up a sign for atheism, etc...but it should be right beside a nativity scene, what's wrong with NOT insulting people's religion? Atheist signs RIGHT beside religious symbols/etc...are insulting to some, I'm a deist, but why do some atheists want to INSULT christians? There's no need.....and another things, why do 100% atheists seem so proud of themselves and happy almost that there is no god/life after death? shouldn't you be scared, solemn,,,depressed?

[normalsfaraway]

Anyone that has to be told that those things are wrong,are either living in a world of ignorant bliss, or they are a child of Sarah Palins.

[normalsfaraway]

How the hell does anyone make the connection that because the bible says in it's 10 commandments not to rape,murder,etc. that,that is the foundation for our laws? Didn't the Christians borrow(some would say steal) the Old Testament from the Jews? So then by that logic,the Jews were the ones that are responsible for the foundation of our laws. Also,did someone really have to tell you that stealing,murder,rape, and incest was wrong?!!? You didn't know that!?! It had to be pointed out to you?!?

[IamAsi94]

i know-if there are supposed to be the ten most important things in the world you would think rape,slavery,murder,etc.wouldn­t of slip your mind-i did something a god couldnt do

[amberraeplz]

want to hear a hilarious joke? Atheists rights! Lol. Good one :)

[Hackysak1986]

I totally agree with you. I

[Mitchillio]

Sorry for the debate taking up all the space on your comments page. Rubzy11 just resorted to the argument of atheists shopping on Christmas. Anybody with reasonable intelligence has already facepalmed at ruzby and as such, this debate is officially over. Anybody still on his side simply can't be swayed by logic.

[rubzy11]

loser.....whats wrong in mentioning that it is hypocrisy for atheists to do large christmas shopping? logic? i have used law, sociology and logic gates in all my comments on this topic. i never used the ''God is supreme and He said so'' excuse once.

my comments are there for everyone to see to prove my point. Accept it- you were pwned by a smarter christian. loser. go and celebrate that farce called festivus. fat loser

[Mitchillio]

I see no hypocrisy in atheists celebrating a pagan holiday. And btw, what exactly is your point? Because you started with the argument that children need religion to have morals, and ended by saying that children will get morals regardless of whether or not they have religion because christian morals are part of society anyway. You are i no position to talk about hypocrisy. Either it's necessary or not, make up your mind.

"fat loser"

You christians certainly are loving and mature.

[rubzy11]

mitchillio, seriously, are u a glutton for pwnage?

1) christmas is the celebration for Jesus'es birthday and not a pagan holiday. atheists doing christmas shopping are hypocrites

2) if u are trying to be historical, the earliest festival on the same date was for the sun god and that qualifies as a religious too.

3) religion is necessary for morally bringing up any child. the twist is that many atheists raise their children in a christian way and then, both society& tv fill in the gaps left.

[thenameless13]

are you fucking retarded christmas started off as a pagan holiday same with halloween but stupid fucking christians dolled it up to fit their needs and to strip the pagans of their own individualism

[rubzy11]

thenameless13, you should call yourself thebrainless13.

go and research..........the earliest festival that falls on xmas date is for the sun god which is a religion too.

[thenameless13]

good job buds you just agreed with what i said

the pagans and romans celebrated the exchanging of gifts, winter solstice and what not on december 25 long before the christians celebrated christmas hence christmas being derived from a pagan and roman holiday. and yes i know there were more civilizations before the romans and pagans which had festivals on dec. 25

and on another thought, jesus never existed but just for the sake of the argument, jesus wasn't actually born on december 25

[rubzy11]

lol..........thats why athiests that do xmas shopping are hypocrites; xmas has always been for religion

Jesus' birthday was hard to ascertain so the put it at the best approximate date which was also a date of festivity

For someone that never existed, Jesus has actually shaped our modern civilization---his legacy has touched even you as an atheist; one exmple--''he who is without sin cast the first stone''----the basis of Equity in law in any country.

[thenameless13]

Anything and everything related to the bible is complete and utter bullshit. the ten commandments, god given rights and so on were all there to control primitive people and clearly there are still a lot of primitive people who believe in that shit.

like come on a talking snake, virgin birth, 2 guys who go into the mountains and come down with 10 commandments supposedly given by god, earth and heavens created in 7 days...in the dark not to mention and so on

[rubzy11]

''Anything and everything related to the bible is complete and utter bullshit. the ten commandments''

lol....yet its against the laws of any country to kill or steal, wrong to swear on tv (using God's name in vain---God damn). or to sleep with our relatives---all because of the bible.

really? a talking snake is hard to believe but most scientists will tell u there could be aliens. did u know that there's a reptile that reproduces without sex? if that was written in the bible its a fairytale

[thenameless13]

yeah, to control people that's what it's all about. one race or religion trying to control everything.

not to mention if you're to break any of these commandments then you'll go to hell which too, is bullshit.

and the last part of your comment is pretty much irrelevant because the points you make have nothing to do with each other. find me a snake can speak perfect english and then i'll rethink its association with the bible.

[rubzy11]

lol...maybe the talking snake got extinct?? lmao

anyways, whether you believe in God or not, you have to agree, that Jesus was smart and his teachings make sense.

the funny thing is that, of all the theories as to how life on earth came about, the adam n eve story makes the most sense. do you want to argue that we came from an 'explosion'? from unicellular organisms to apes to human beings...now thats a fairytale

[thenameless13]

Perhaps if Jesus existed then there is a chance that he was a genius compared to the complete dumbasses at that time.

Adam and eve makes some sense but you would also have to believe that the earth was created 6000 yrs ago

which was proved wrong. There is also much scientific evidence of evolution from single cell organisms to us as humans and everything between. With the evidence of homo erectus and other prehistoric humans, Adam and eve would have had to be homo habilis beings.

[rubzy11]

dumbasses?? people in the past were smarter...they went from isreal to egypt without compasses/GPS, they had coins without complex printing machines, they survived in the wilderness without camping gear or buildng pyramids without cranes.

homo habilis, homo erectus were all apes--and no evidence we came from them or unicellular organisms.

Show me a talking ape and i might rethink its association with humans. (homo habilis could not do modern speech)

lol......i'm smart, aren't i?

[thenameless13]

yeah all of which we can do now as well; however, we have all those machines and gadgets to make large amounts of coins or to make life easier. Compared to how we think and invent stuff now, they are dumbasses.

I hate to break it to you but we humans are apes too plus there once again is scientific proof that we share something like 98%-99% of our genes with chimps.

and yeah of course they couldn't since I'm sure English wasn't around a few hundred thousand years ago

[vhnr31]

lol.........you must be joking people in the past were smarter!!

humans are primates and not apes.

how old r u anyway?

[rubzy11]

lol

vhnr

[rubzy11]

3) yes, most atheist raise their children in a christian way. example, my atheist friends say they know Jesus and his teaching as their parents told them about (but didnt enforce it) when they were young. they also say they were punished when they were young ('the rod and reproof give wisdom'. prov. 29;15). they also mentioned that their parents had a covert dislike for gays. many atheists raise their children this way but deny the christian upbringing they give their children.

[rubzy11]

of course, christians should be loving and mature. you are fat (from what i saw in your video) and you just lost an argument. i was just telling the truth; you are a fat loser.

so, erm, are u gonna celebrate festivus this year? what will you do on festivus? get a big screen tv with all your atheist pals and watch the discovery channel with popcorn? LMAO

PWNED.

[Mitchillio]

I tire of this endless loop of idiocy. You've strayed so far from your original point and are now resorting to ad hominems (fat loser) to fight me. I'm not going to bother replying anymore. It's pitiful that you're so blind to the hypocrisy of claiming to be mature and loving and then teasing somebody's weight in a debate. You aren't worth my time or effort anymore, so I'm ending this. Jump in and have the last word if you want, I'm sure you will.

[rubzy11]

first of all, you started the ad hominems by saying i was an idiot and ignorant. the 'fat loser' isnt an ad hminem because i explained my points before saying it. i havent strayed far from any original point; you just cant handle the argument.

i am mature and loving doesnt mean that i am naive. naive to the point that i wont retaliate when being called an idiot for making a sensible point.

goodbye mitchillio, it was nice pwning you. oh, and lose some weight if you dont want to be called fatty.

[narddogg420]

85% my ass...

[narddogg420]

wasnt festivus a seinfeld joke

[rubzy11]

i have to agree with fox new for the 1st time in my life. i believe christians should respect atheists and atheists should respect christians. if people want to enjoy xmas with Jesus, let them do it in peace. Also, if athiests are celebrating, they should do it in peace. mutual respect.

[ProudlyEccentric]

Atheists are doing nothing to keep Christians from enjoying Xmas in peace. They are simply trying to either put up signs saying what they believe in or are trying to put up a Festivus display so they can celebrate Festivus. It's some Christians like Gretchen Carlson who are trying to keep atheists from celebrating Festivus or atheists from putting up their signs.

[rubzy11]

lol......yeah signs that tend to anger christians at the nativity scene...........some atheists are funny- if christmas is a nonsense fairy tale, why celebrate festivus which is a clearly made-up holiday? it annoys me when athiests think they are smarter than christians...........Mendel was catholic

[ProudlyEccentric]

Let me repeat myself one more time. Hopefully this time it will get through. Atheists are NOT trying to take Christmas away from Christians. Even if it is a nonsense fairy tale, Christians have the right to celebrate it, and the atheists are letting them. The atheists, too, are also trying to celebrate their own holiday.

[rubzy11]

YES......atheists are not trying to take away christmas...BUT trying to ridicule the story of Jesus'es birth. Stop having a laugh and admit it......there were more neutral places that the atheists could have put their signs.....ok, if u believe you can put your signs anywhere bcos its a free country...pls do it in the ramadan season near mosques..........

[Mitchillio]

Why should the atheists go to more neutral areas? The idea is to get christians to see it so that they might open their minds to other possibilities. If you can look at both sides and choose the one you prefer, that's great. If you're only ever exposed to the one point of view, that's called brainwashing, and it's exactly the kind of thing Gretchen Carlson is doing to her kids. She's upset that her kids are going to know what atheism is, why is it wrong to let them choose?

[rubzy11]

Why should atheists go to more neutral areas??!! its like asking why christians shouldnt put a picture of Jesus in a mosque- it stirs hate, violence and anger. there are less insulting ways to educate people about atheism......for instance, putting a picture of Jesus in a mosque is disrespectful while putting a picture of Jesus in a corner of a town which is predominantly muslim isnt bad.

[rubzy11]

the reason kids shouldnt let to know what atheism is that they have to be grounded with morals first. religion gives a moral background.......after that the children can choose whatever they want to follow.......isnt that how proudlyeccentric grew up?

[ProudlyEccentric]

My parents taught me about God and Christianity, but they also acknowledged what atheism was when I asked them about people who don't believe in God. Atheists aren't born libertines, you know.

[rubzy11]

ok......to end this argument......the fact is, as long as majority of the public is christian, atheists will feel oppressed as a minority and will sometimes rebel with such actions (putting up those signs). lol...God Pwns athiests- He's got more fans than evolution...lmao

[Mitchillio]

"lol...God Pwns athiests- He's got more fans than evolution...lmao "

Why did he stop pwning Copernicus...?

[rubzy11]

oh, and kohlbergs level 1 is about punishment in general and not just religious punishment..........are u trying to say that atheist parents dont punish(ground) their children nowadays.

you got pwned......its always a good feeling pwning atheists in the science they hold as their saviour.....lmao

[ProudlyEccentric]

Atheist parents ground their children. Nobody said they didn't. Atheist parents still want their kids to behave and act like civilized human beings, you know.

[ProudlyEccentric]

Like I said in the video, majority rule is not a feasible argument. Only people who don't have a valid argument use majority rule.

[rubzy11]

lol......i wasnt saying the majority rule is fair but it is a fact and it is the reason why festivus will NEVER be a national holiday.......as long as the major religion is christianity, opposing issues such as gay marriage and atheism will always have problems being formed into a law.

as for the grounding of children, i was replying to Mitchillio who was talking about Kohlbergs theory- i gave him/her a good pwning.

[Mitchillio]

"the reason kids shouldnt let to know what atheism is that they have to be grounded with morals first"

Oh yeah, cause god forbid we give them this crazy idea that you can be a good person without the threat of eternal torture. It's this grounding in religion that prevents people's morals developing. Are you familiar with Kohlberg's theory of moral development? Religion is the perfect way to keep someone at level 1, that is, only doing the right thing because you'll get rewarded for it.

[rubzy11]

lol........wasnt Copernicus a catholic till death? God still pwns! Kolhberg's theory??? it has a lot of flaws.

for instance, lets assume that a child was brought up in an atheists way (and no moral grounding in christianity). What is to stop him from sleeping with his siblings? common sense/science tells us that inbreeding is great if you have a healthy family and only wrong if you have hereditary diseases in the family. if not for religion, would we see incest as a bad thing? incest is bad.

[Mitchillio]

Copernicus proved that that even having tonnes of people believe in something doesn't prove it right, even if it's the church.

Grounding is necessary for children who's morals haven't development, but as they do develop, they should be able to make decisions based on a sense of morality not "zomg hell".

Inbreeding increases chances of genetic illnesses even if they aren't in the family history. Many will remain dormant unless both parents have it.

The only person you "pwned" is yourself.

[rubzy11]

sweet.....back for more pwning.

Copernicus proved what? he was mostly concerned with astronomy and his works had little or no contradiction with the church- he died a catholic.

you also forget that inbreeding doesnt have to be continuous- once in 3 generations doesnt have such genetic consequences.

also, inbreeding is just a small part of incest. what about relatives who have casual sex- for the fun of it (no pregnancy)? science isnt against that but religion is.

[rubzy11]

morality comes from where? religion!!!! you cant expect three to six year old children to have good reasoning skills. their sense of good an bad comes from what their parents tell them (including religion). so, if an atheist punishes his/her child- the child believes ''its only because daddy thinks its wrong''-which is the basic problem.

Religion acts as a kind of reinforcement in this case. but i do accept that such reinforcement is not perfect.

PWNED again

[ProudlyEccentric]

A three to six-year-old has better reasoning skills than a Christian.

No child will think that is why their parent is punishing them. I was raised a Christian, and religion had NOTHING to do w/ my parents punishing me. They did not punish me for not being religious and they did not use religion to reinforce the punishment.

[rubzy11]

i think its you that fails to see the reasoning in my argument. when a child lies and gets punished, he/she understands that they did what was wrong to mummy/daddy. the reinforcement is the child also understanding it is a sin. a child brought up in total atheism will never see it as a sin but only as a wrong to mummy/daddy.

proudlyeccentric, do u seriously think u would be a better person if ur parents didnt raise u as a christian? or do u hate ur parents for raising u like that? PWNED

[ProudlyEccentric]

When my parents punished me, instead of telling me what I did was a sin, they told me that it was rude and a wrong to society, not a wrong to them personally.

I would be exactly the same person am now if I weren't born Christian. And it wasn't necissarily raised Christian. I was born a Christian, told God loves me and all that crap, and that's about it. Christianity never had a place in my home or punishment. I've never even gone to mass. And I do resent my parents for baptising me.

[rubzy11]

''I would be exactly the same person am now if I weren't born Christian''. What a fat lie.

When u were 3-6 years old and your parents told you that it was wrong to society after being punished, did u even understand the meaning of 'society'? did u understand the basics of antropology/sociology when you were 3-6 years old? your 'society' was ur little school friends, your teachers and your family. so, you would only see it as 'being wrong to daddy/mummy' and not the society they tell u.

[rubzy11]

lol............why resent ur parents for baptizing u? after all, baptism doesnt mean anything to an atheist- its a 'stupid christian custom'.

PWNED.

[Mitchillio]

I have many friends who were raised atheist and have perfectly fine morals, better ones than many christians. Copernicus showed that the Earth isn't the centre of the universe, which is what the catholic church believed. Incest is only immoral to you, I would not do it, but if two adult, consenting relatives decided to do it, that's their fucking business, not mine or yours. Now quit saying "pwned". Claiming victory before being rebutted just makes you look like an idiot. Fuck you're ignorant.

[rubzy11]

saying 'fuck' and that i behaved like an idiot is quite ironic while talking about morals. lol.

i know.....its quite annoying and unusual to get pwned by a christian (for an atheist). u very well know i wasnt rebutted.

lol.

incest is immoral to the public as it is illegal in so many european countries (UK, holland, sweden) and even in some states in the US. of course, as USA loves freaks, some states find it legal.

PWNED- incest is illegal and therefore immoral in the public view. VICTORY

[rubzy11]

erm, you can not blame the catholic church or anyone for believing the earth was flat or the centre of the universe. Everyone believed so as there wasnt modern technology at that time. Copernicus'es works were accepted by the catholic church, so, ur still pointless. (PWNED)

As for incest, it is immoral to christians and punishable by the laws of many country- so you're the ignorant one.

if ur uncle made a sexual advance towards u, would u still see him as an uncle or a pervert? PWNED

oh

[Mitchillio]

Illegal = wrong huh? Yeah, you totally pwned me. Btw, if my uncle made a sexual advance on me without my permission, that would be wrong regardless of the fact that he's my uncle. I don't see why you're still trying to fight me on Copernicus, the point was that having a majority of people believe something doesn't in any way validate it, trying to deny that would be stupid. Also, using the fact that I said "fuck" to prove your morals are better? Pathetic. I'm done here, this is just too stupid.

[rubzy11]

Mitchllio, calm down......lol. you dont have to explode bcos u were pwned.

i said saying 'fuck' was ironic not that i'm better than you (guilty conscience).

illegal = legally wrong- its as simple as that.

oh, did u ask for permission when getting ur girlfriend/boyfriend (yes i'm also assuming boyfriend bcos ur likely to be a stupid fag). and lastly, people are not christians just because many other people believe in Jesus.

just accept u were pwned and move on...loser

[Mitchillio]

Congratulations on pwning your self. I don't think I even need to justify my arguments any further, this whole thing started with you claiming religion is required for a moral upbringing and yet you neglected to explain how my friends who were born and raised without religion ended up with perfectly fine morals. For your information, they find incest disgusting.

[rubzy11]

1)your friends might have gone to christian schools,

2) their parents may have been former christians (and now atheists) therefore, the parents might have unconsciously instilled some christian virtues in them

3) by finding incest disgusting, they are showing a religious perspective as its only religion and law that are against incest (religion has the greatest influence on laws of any country)

4) there are atheists that dont believe in God but follow christian norms.......

ONWED

[Mitchillio]

1) No.

2) No.

3) It's a social norm regardless of religion

4) So you can be an atheist from birth till death and still follow christian norms huh? You do realise that's the exact opposite of what you were originally trying to prove right? Checkmate.

[rubzy11]

checkmate? pawn? good...ur using chess analogy too.......but seriously, do you enjoy getting pwned?

3) our social norms evolved from religion

4) a)unlike atheism, religion is everywhere- its in our laws, values, on telly, in schools that dont allow teachers to say evolution is fact.

4)b) so, even if u were born atheist, ur primary+high school, ur society and the law taints u wit a bit of religion.

to prove 4)b), are there not atheists who dislike gays? athiests that get married?

[rubzy11]

''exact opposite''....lol....simple logic will tell u that ''opposite is a relative word. yes, the opposite of christian isnt always atheist, it could be muslim. yes, even if u were born and raised atheist, there are the elementary schools, society and laws that edge u towards a christian mentality...eg laws that ban gay marriage, the american view of christmas- Jesus was given gifts so buy buy buy lots of presents.

you do realise that atheist shop too on christmas.

PWNED again!!!!

[deathbotv1]

Wow. How dare us atheists not believe your fairy tales. If you don't want people putting stuff near your nativity scene, keep it at home where it belongs.

[JimmyeDallas]

Christmas is a stupid excuse of holiday to annually feed our pathetic consumerist economy. It's not about virgin births, it's not about a messianic saviour sending himself on a suicide mission, it's not about the kings and that damn drummer boy. It's all about money and getting shit, and if you can't see that then you're a delusional myopic retard.

[TheBronxBull9]

You can put up a sign IN my nativity scene? Are you nuts? Can the neo-nazis also put up their sign? Grow the hell up.

[Kittiesrkool]

"I'm sorry--"

"Eh, its okay"

Hahah.

[ulthea]

I get angered when I hear an adult complain about "what am I going to teach my children" in regards to atheism. I have no trouble explaining what humans believe to my children, and it is up to them to decide what they feel is right.

My eldest says that she believes in God, and while she is only 5 she also understands that God is a concept that no human is capable of knowing. She also knows that I don't believe. Not hard, Gretchen!

My kids have a choice, hers do not. Way to breed ignorance ey!

[ProudlyEccentric]

My parents taught me about the bible and God. But ever since I was four, I've loved to watch the Discovery channel. When I was five or six, I asked my mom which story was right: the Adam & Eve story she had taught me or the Evolution story the scientists on the Discovery channel had taught me. She said that some people believed in different things, and it was up to me to chose which one I believed in. I picked Evolution, and nobody in my immediate or extended family has a problem w/ that.

[ulthea]

Its the way it should be, but sadly such stories don't come up as often as you'd like to hear :)

[ulthea]

How sad that their kids may be exposed to open minds, rather than the threat of and fear of and unlikely hell!

Us atheists are awful, aren't we!

[Guitarjam07]

go fox news for once standing up for whats right

[ProudlyEccentric]

Refusing to tolerate people who believe in different things as you is right...?

Oh well, I guess that's Christian logic for ya. You people never make any sense to those w/ reason.