the zionist MEDIA succeed to Brainwashed American through CNN,FUCKS all mainstream pro israHELL propaganda by Demonize Muslims image yet the zionist who controll the country stole the banks, bankrupted US ,made u Homeless ,jobless american
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Thunderf00t does great work with science but really should stay away from this subject. He just makes too many oversimplifications and grouping extremists with all Muslim people.
The core issue is that not a single country dominated by islam is civilised in the modern accepted context. Perhaps only with the exception of Turkey but only because of the military who threatens to intervene when muslims forces try to 'purify' the country. And though every religion has it share of absurdities no major religion has this:
www1.umn. edu/humanrts/instree/cairodeclaration. html
The "this-is-not-true-islam" moslims are therefore simply worng.
@wimahlers Albania would be another one, as would Kosovo. There are also various majority Muslims countries that are developing (in some cases rather rapidly) and plenty of others where the problems are not really attributable to Islam (rather Suharto for the example of Indonesia and the former USSR for the 'Stans).
Yes, yes, I know the excuse of that all or most problems are caused by the western colonial past, Stalin or the oil ruling saudi families or some similar excuse.
And talking about Indonesia, less than a week ago I received an invitation for an Indonesian cultural evening hosted by the vice ambassador of Indonesia to celebrate the 65th aniversary of the Indonesia independence. But all this does not hide the fact that also in Indonesia there are problems with Islam (Atjeh).
@wimahlers GAM (Gerakan Aceh Merdeka) or in english the Aceh Freedom Movement, a militant separatist group operating on Aceh and like i said there are more of a separatist group than a religious one.
I never heard of it. But I am not even sure if this is relevant. I was referring to the strict enforcement of the so many-ists variation of sharia law enforced on the people on the Aceh peninsula by religious police.
@wimahlers sorry for the wait i was searching for game hint about the Ballad of Gay Tony. what are you gonna do the people of Aceh voted the GAM in power it is part of our country agreement with them to give them special autonomy if it were me in charge i just take them behind the barn and shoot them, you do realize that Aceh is just one small tip of a region on the large island of Sumatra.
"the GAM in power it is part of our country agreement with them to give them special autonomy"
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OK, fine. I am not familiar with many details, this being one of them, but I do know this: Aceh has a police enforcing Islamic moralities upon people. Thus for all practical purposes: Religious police. Why is that?
Why whould a seperatists group enforce or condone such practices?
Reference: smh. com.au/world/ acehs-religious-police-crack-down-on-tight-jeans-20100526-weap. html
@wimahlers ask our last president Megawati Soekarnoputri about it because it is very typical, our first woman president and she have no balls. They're Separatist they can enforce whatever law they want in their land and as the article say it the law in that region make it illegal to wear tight jeans, i forgot to mention they're technically not a separatist anymore (they are to me and my family) but an Autonomous (the central government cannot touch them) entity within Indonesia.
@wimahlers sure if you want to be technical about it but why is Aceh the only region in Indonesia that have Sharia but the rest of it does not, we also have autonomous Sultanate in Jogjakarta were they are ruled by a democratically elected Sultan (King) but they don't have Sharia law in fact that region is a favorite hangout spots for the Gays in my country, may i need to remind you that Indonesia is the world largest Muslim populated country in the world but we are a secular country.
"..., may i need to remind you that Indonesia is the world largest Muslim populated country in the world but we are a secular country."
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A well known fact. So, you have no explanation why they favor sharia law in Aceh and have religious police in Aceh. And yet it is so. When I contemplate wikipedia (Aceh) I read the following sentence:
"The Aceh province has the highest proportion of Muslims in the country...".
Might there be a relation between high concentration and sharia?
@wimahlers the idea that high concentration of anything mean they will create a law that suit them is still a pseudo science or inaccurate science at best.
I know why they favor sharia in aceh everybody in the country know you should read the birth of GAM in Wikipedia (please stop putting law in front of sharia, sharia already mean law in arabic) if you read the Wikipedia about aceh you know they proud themselves as the first muslim convert in the country.
"the idea that high concentration of anything mean they will create a law that suit them is still a pseudo science or inaccurate science at best ... if you read the Wikipedia about aceh you know they proud themselves as the first muslim convert in the country."
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As to the first part: What science or pseudo-science are you talking about?
As to the second part: Being the first asian muslim converted country is irrelevant. Current sharia law is relevant and uncivilised.
To you maybe it's irrelevant but to them it is very relevant did you read the origin of GAM as i told you. I know that sharia is uncivilized but what is the point on telling me this even i already told you that people there VOTE to have an Islamic law
"I know that sharia is uncivilized but what is the point on telling me this".
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The point is:
a) It is a pattern there were muslims become a majority power the sharia law is introduced.
b) The fact that major islamic representatives of your country have signed the CDHRI (wikipedia). Which originated from by the Al-Azhar university in Cairo. Which in turn is recognized by suni as shia moslims as a respected source. The CDHRI is the major source behind the UN blasphemy proposals.
"I know that sharia is uncivilized but what is the point on telling me this even i already told you that people there VOTE to have an Islamic law"
If you have a problem with democracy please take it to some other video.
a) a pattern of what? it may or may not be introduced.
b) are we still talking about Aceh or not? if you want to talk about UN blasphemy or whatever please take it to other video and do not change the topic.
"originated from by Al-Azhar" should be "originated from Al-Azhar".
"by suni as shia muslims" should be "by suni and shia muslims".
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Addemdum:
I will not be lectured on the virtues of tolerance or accept bargaining chips labelled in the name of tolerance from someone in order to comply with his religion is ignorant of, or condone, the CDHRI consensus as an icon of discrimination.
@wimahlers sorry for the long wait i was busy being a terrorist ...just kidding i'm actually busy with college.
Don't take a quote from me if you don't want to use the full sentence if you have a problem with democracy take it to some other video.
a) are we talking about "a muslim" (a regular person who walk the street everyday minding their own business) or "the muslim" (a person waving a picket sign saying repent he end is nigh or something like that and it may or may not be introduced.
"are we talking about "a muslim" ... or "the muslim" ..."
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Neither!
I am talking about the faith itself irrespective(!) of the individual person labelled "muslim". That is, I can say the same thing for aspects of christianity. Like:
I will not be lectured on the virtues of morals or accept bargaining chips labelled morals from someone in order to comply to his religion has to discriminate women and homosexuals.
"are we talking about Aceh or we dragging the U.N. into this, ..."
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Nothing of that. I am talking about objective observable actions of major representatives of the islamic faith. Or, when you deny it represents you or muslims in general, about the objective fact that there is no muslim outcry against these influential islamic organizations like Al Azhar and its CDHRI. And as long as this is not the case no muslim can llecture me on on the virtues of tolerance.
"There is no unity in any religion. Islam is even worse because there is no central structure"
Islam is not a democracy you cannot judge it by majority ruling it is a semi organized religion with their very own interpretation of what Islam meant to them, every verse in the quran can have a hundred interpretation of what it mean, just because a republican vote for bush doesn't mean all Republican are war monger, have you ever met a Muslim before?
You: "it is a semi organized religion with their very own interpretation"
Me: I agree! Therefore islam is not fit for anything publicly. It should stay out of justice, moras, lifestyle and anything and everything else that is public. Use it in the comfort of your own private being and leave it there.
And since, as you put it, every koranic verse can practically have any meaning whatsoever it has effectively no meaning whatsoever.
"religion is not suppose to become part of politic or anything else as long as they don't hurt nobody."
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Reality is: islam is politics, does interfere and does hurt people. And to return to Thunderf00t's original intent:
I will not be lectured on the virtues of tolerance or accept bargaining chips labelled in the name of tolerance from someone in order to comply with his religion is ignorant of, or condones, the CDHRI consensus as an icon of discrimination.
"should we continue or finish because we already drawn a conclusion."
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If it is up to me we can draw a conclusion. In my opinion Landon Cole focussed on and addressed the wrong issue. An issue that was not at all addressed by Thunderf00t. What we discussed and seem to agree upon is the heart of the matter that Thunderf00t addressed as well.
Again, this conclusion is mine and mine alone. Others must convince me to conclude otherwise with (for me) compelling arguments.
@wimahlers the issue that can a mosque be build in ground zero is already being explained by Dlandon Cole can you tell me where is the fault in his video?
"the issue that can a mosque be build in ground zero is already being explained by Dlandon Cole can you tell me where is the fault in his video?"
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Yes I can! Thunderf00t is not talking about the mosque but about concepts like "tolerance" and "peace" being used by spokepersons trying to defend islam. Excuses also used by the principal promotor of Park 51. (Author of: "What is right for islam is right for America"). It is futile to defend islam, so it is wiser to be quiet.
@wimahlers Dlandon Cole made a 6 video play list for park 51 and in the Video he will address more of thunder foot video you should really watch it, did you watch revisiting tolerance by Cole.
I do know there has been some intense debate between Cole and Thunderf00t. But, as far as I have seen, the disagreement about the meaning and interpretation of words and concepts remained.
My reaction is mostly and mainly based on Thunderf00t's original video and Cole's original reply. I too consider it improper when a muslim talks on "peace" and "tolerance" based on his faith.
@wimahlers just type Revisiting 'Tolerance' and the 'Ground Zero Mosque' : a further response to Thunderf00t
i suggest you look behind the usual stereotype because did you know that my country is used to be colonized by the Dutch and believe me sir they were anything but what they are stereotyped as.
@reashot, . You: "did you know that my country is used to be colonized by the Dutch " Me: Being Dutch I have to say: yes I know! . You: "i suggest you look behind the usual stereotype" Me: What sterotype are you reffering to? . You: " Revisiting 'Tolerance' and ..." (watch?v=bJGlc1xpEN0) Me: I have seen that. What argument(s) out of those 11+ minutes should change my opinion according to you? . BTW, I do claim that islam is a monolith of intolerance.
@DLandonCole yeah i know the people from the southern tip of Thailand are ethnically different and they feel that the government have abandoned them that let to the fostering of separatism in that region (the same as my government).
Struggle for power and natural resources usually isn't. But it is a red herring.
The issue is that the sharia law in Aceh has nothing to do with such earthly matters. It is used as an excuse. The sharia law in Aceh has to do with the fact that muslims have a majority in Aceh despite(!) these earthly separatist movements.
But what about Indonesia as a whole? Well, major islamic representatives of this country have signed the despicable CDHRI.
There is no unity in any religion. Islam is even worse because there is no central structure (Like the roman catholic church for instance). However, you can judge the religion by its majority rulings. And in this context you cannot deny or ignore the Cairo declaration of human rights and, more importantly, the actions initiated based on this piece of crap. And it is only in the islamic minority ruled countries this crap is still not common.
Watching your videos, I think you know more about Islam and the Islam world than Tfoot, and you make me more interested into how much of the bad publicity Islam gets is just that. However, I still do not see where Tfoot is wrong about his last quote you have. Islam as far as I have been introduced to it has no love and very little acceptance for any outsider.
@atmdusty No love is a very harsh term, but very little tolenrance and acceptance along with ignorance and learning of respect in the name of the family''s honor might be more correct and accurate?
Neither George Bush, nor Karen Armstrong, nor Barak Obama have a proper handle on Islam. They labour under the delusion that Islam is a 'religion of peace'. It is nothing of the sort. Islam is a politcal movement which masqurades under the guise of a religion. Even if the intentions of the builders of the Park 51 most are benevolent toward the West, there is no guarantee that the successors will be. 60% of British mosques have been hijacked by extremist political Muslims who seek power.
If there was a ground zero mosque, TF is right, they would be jerks to build it.
chirwan is right about islam. It is mostly direct commands, and any contradictions means the contradiction written earlier must be ignored. It's all or nothing. Islam is an icon of intolerance and discrimination.
Sure there are muslims who do pick and choose (the moderates) like christians and jews. But islam itself have very few parts that can be interpreted any differently just like the 10 commandments.
I'm sorry to report, after having watched Rauf give a TED talk on compassion I'm now more afraid of him than the Westboro Baptist Church. His approach was akin to that of new age scammer Deepak Chopra, a whole bunch of nutty, seductive kindnesses that are of no practical use in the real world. What respect you tried to engender for his conciliatory role in the Park51 matter has since fled.
Abdul Rauf says a lot of things. Like Sharia is compatible with the US Constitution and that the USA was an accomplice to 9/11. Both total bullshit statements.
The proper term is the 9/11 attack site mosque. Rauf gets his funding for his mosque for this site to symbolize a victory for terrorism. To say different is to deny the obvious. Rauf position as an emissary is irrelevant to the fact he's truly a radical.
No, he said, "accessory to the crime" - and duh, the US inspired, trained and armed the jihadists -- to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan. Then they came after us for arming Israel, for invading Kuwait, and putting bases in Saudi Arabia. He doesn't sound like a militant Muslim, he sounds like Michael Moore lol
And he said "90% of sharia" is compatible. Which is prob true. Abstaining from pork and alcohol is constitutional. Oh noes!
@geodgereturns I've heard enough from Rauf to know he's a scumbag raghead. As for his shit on america mosque, I hope he gets it built, I won't protest it, but plenty will daily.
@geodgereturns Hell, Islam is all Bigotry . Hating a thieving murdering child fucker and his fictional book of hatred is a good thing. What's your point?
@robertmike57 You don't get to tell Rauf what he understands sharia to be. I'm ignore the rest of your comment based on the racial epithets you use later on.
@DLandonCole What I do get to say is that if Rauf gets his Victory for Terrorist Mosque, then I get to use all legal means available to discriminate against Muslims. I shall be far from alone in that backlash, in fact, I disdain conservatives on most issues, but not in ignoring the inherent problem of basic Islam.
Rauf deserves no more respect than what he gives. He is skilled at duplicity, perhaps trying to extricate himself from his own mess, so I reserve judgment for now.
I, personally, only have a problem with religion when it tries to remove my freedom of choice to do whatever I chose to do.
Christianity tried it, I ignored them, they realised that I could not be forced to believe in their dogma and tried to play the 'please don't be mean, I just want to save your soul!' card.
Islam tried it, then tried to forcibly convert me to islam, when I refused, they tried to murder me.
When I laughed at their 'religion of tolerance' I got threatened. Tolerance?
See you next time? Sure you will, just subscribed.
I think that people like TF make a self-fulfilling prophecy: All muslims are like that, so in the end a lot of what we now consider to be moderate muslims will become radical, because if under attack they will side with "their own", clearly not with someone who doesn't give a damn about what they're actually saying bacause they're muslims anyway.
And here I thought that secular rationalism and frankly: common sense, was on a decline on youtube in light of the "Thunderf00t debate" ... oh boy, was I wrong.
one of the best video ever made about this subject and as a muslim i agree with you most of muslim don't consider Saudi Arabia as an example of what islam has to offer and even Saudis are working to change their country because they know that their country is not following islam
but their government and king are supported by guess who ?!
On Islam being "incompatible with even merest hint of civilization":
I would say that it is, in the same way that Christianity and Judaism are.
These are religions that have been brought, while resisting forcefully, into an age of (relative) enlightenment.
Islam, like the other Abrahamic faiths, is not, in it's original form, compatible with enlightened civilization. It is only made so by being watered down.
As a former Muslim, I understand why you left out there being a prayer hall or mosque inside. It's common knowledge. Just like there will be a temple on site of a Jewish Community Center. I used to go to an Islamic Community Center here, and it had a school and dining hall along side the prayer hall.
@lilsorms202 I agree with you, but a few people have said I should have made it clear. In retrospect, I probably should have, if for no other reason than to make sure everyone knew exactly what we're dealing with.
Just so you know... I was born a Muslim in Syria, now I am an atheist. and it is true what thunderf00t says.. Islam is all about discrimination against everything, Christians, Jews, and atheists. and in Islam there is no room for tolerance.
Islam makes it impossible to be moderate. Your either a Muslim or your not. This is why moderation evolved with Christianity and not Islam.
@chirwan Wow, I was just about to make a comment similar to yours. I was born into a Muslim family here in the US. We went to mosque every week until I was about 12. I wouldn't have gone as far as to say Islam is all about discrimination, but I didn't see Islam in the same way you have.
What I was going to say was Islam dignifies itself as an unchanged religion. As a religion that will NOT be reformed or modernized. When I watched Tf00t's video, that is what I thought he was referring to.
@lilsorms202 But surely Islam cannot reasonably consider itself unchanged? Quite apart from the divisions within Islam, there is the concept of ijtihad.
@DLandonCole I do realize the different sects have changed Islam, but a great majority (90% on Wikipedia) of Islam around the world is Sunni, as I used to be. That along with the fact that the Quran has gone through the ages, with very minimal, if any, change, in my view solidifies my point. I don't mean 100% unchanged, I mean unchanged to a very high degree, much higher than say Christianity or Judaism.
@DLandonCole Therefore, Islam (too broad, perhaps much of Islam would be better) is very resistant to modernization or conforming to proven western ideals i.e. free speech, voting, equality, no cruel and unusual punishment, etc. Now I'm not saying every western ideal is perfect, and certainly not that America is the best example.
@DLandonCole As for ijtihad, I'm not familiar with it, but I looked it up on Wikipedia. And I found it discriminatory with the "Formal preconditions for being considered to be able to give ifta and thus be a mujtahid are: 1. Maturity 2. Being of the male sex*
[...] *It must be noted that a female can be a mujtahid but not one that others can follow (she is not a Marja), that is to say she follows her own rulings but others cannot do taqlid (imitation) of her."
@DLandonCole With discrimination like that cooked right into the ijtihad. Can Islam really ever be reformed to meet the high standards of society today? And still be called Islam?
It's questions like this, that caused me to leave Islam.
@chirwan I'm glad you enjoyed the video, but I have to disagree with you. There clearly is room in Islam for tolerance - all I need to do is find one Muslim who is both pious and tolerant - even if others disagree with them.
@DLandonCole "all I need to do is find one Muslim who is both pious and tolerant" My father and mother would be good examples, as would, I'm sure, many fathers and mothers in Islam. My father especially, because he does a lot of work with the interfaith community here. He's been to temples, churches and schools as well as inviting them back to the community center. Just this summer we had a group of high school students from Israel come share their experiences, and learn how dif Islam is here.
@chirwan Sorry it's taken me a while to respond to you.
I have to disagree; that may be your experience of it and it may well be a common experience, but it is not universal and so the question becomes how we promote moderation.
@chirwan Tolerance is at the heart of Islam. That is not to say that all Muslims are tolerant though. However, the religion, when properly practised, is tolerant and does benefit the advancement of science and civilisation.
Subbed, liked and fav'd. This is a good summary of why I disagree with thunderf00t, and for the record I really respect the guy and hate to disagree with him, but when he's wrong, he's wrong.
Quote: "It´s not a mosque" I thought their website under the facilities tab say the sight will include: "a mosque, intended to be run separately from Park51 but open to and accessible to all members, visitors and our New York community"
"While a mosque will be located in the planned final structure of Park51, it will be a distinct non-profit. Neither Park51 nor the mosque, which hasn’t been named yet, will tolerate any kind of illegal or un-American activity or rhetoric. The final size and location of the mosque have yet to be determined, but it will only represent a small portion of the final structure. "
@JRBendixen So I will not be lectured by an intellectual nincompoop, whom does not care to research the slightest of facts. I´m speaking about you mr. DLandonCole.
@JRBendixen By the fact that cannot even search for mosque on the park51 website you should retract and remove your videos. As you are doing exactly what you accuse others of.
There are several other problems with so called facts in your video. And if you are interested in further info you really should mail me. Though I speculate that you are as interested to absorb information as you are to do the actual research.
@JRBendixen Actually, I did look at the Park51 website. My lunchbox this morning has an orange in it; that does not mean the entire lunchbox is an orange. Similarly with Park51; the fact that it contains a mosque does not make it a mosque.
If you have further problems with my video, make a response.
@DLandonCole Well well, it was my short sort of rebuttal. Anyway you should have mentioned the fact that there is going to be a mosque. So why did you leave it out, just curious and no games intended. By the by, I have just uploaded a video responding to yours. Trust me, I made it before reading your comment. Making videos takes a little time, not much in my case, but still.
@JRBendixen I didn't mention that there was a mosque because I thought everyone realised that a mosque was part of the building. In retrospect, I should have been clearer, although as the Park51 video points out, it will be a separate non-profit.
@DLandonCole I thank you for stating that, becuase it seems to me the subject is extremely polarized. With even the most uninformed having an opinion. Or maybe especially the uninformed.
Regardless, I am personally an atheist and I can only laugh at your non-profit sort of non-argument. What do I care if they try to make money in their struggle to bring on armageddon or not. They are still working to bring the end of the world :) (That was sarcasm byt he way). For my part they can build away.
@MegF142857 - Because Thunderf00t has a lot of influence, which he has rightly earned. It is, however, unfortunate that he has made two videos wrought with terrible arguments. I'm a fan of TF, but I think he's better off arguing against creationist. I'm sure some of his more irrational fans will disagree.
Regardless of whether one thinks Thunderf00t has an agenda - he is attempting to talk as authoritatively about Islam in nuanced and unclear matters such as this, in the same way he talked about Creationists and yet, he seems to be CONSTANTLY surprised by the eye rolling that occurs when the response is not the same.
It seems he is either a total naif outside his comfort zone of science and unaware of the nuance that exists in the real world or there is simply something else in play.
Subbed. Thanks for pointing out the existence moderate tolerant muslims. Also, the God of the bible is a warmongering genocidal maniac, but does that mean that Christians lose credibility when talking about peace or anything even remotely humane. What gets me is that this doesn't seem like an ordinary mistake, he's purposely trying to make them look worse than they are. Very disappointing.
I don't think he is trying to make Muslims look worse than they are on purpose; he just doesn't have as much information available to him as to give him a more nuanced perspective.
@DLandonCole I hope you're right. I have many muslim friends (and an ex girlfriend) who are extremely liberal and perhaps I take that for granted. Even so, I hope he re-evaluates his position soon, a lot of people listen to him.
At times Imam Feisal Abdul Raif seems like the sort of Islamic leader that would be helpful in this era. He tried to play the good cop to enemies of the west at times. I guess we can't expect him to agree with labeling Hamas a terrorist organization if he's expected to negotiate with Islamic enemies of the US and the west generally. I still think it's a bad idea.
Awesome job, DLandonCole. You picked up on points I missed and made Thunderf00t's argument even weaker and more bigoted. God, I remember the days when I thought he the best resource on Youtube. At some point, he just went off the rails.
@DLandonCole I've been having a spirited discussion with another user on Thunderf00t's part 2 video which has allowed me to further detail in my own mind exactly what T-f00t got wrong in the argument of his video.
@shirehorse9 In my video, I explained why I thought Rauf was a moderate. Would you care to counter that rather than making assertions? Moreover, the fact that my lunchbox contains a pear does not make it a pear. It is near Ground Zero, not at.
@DLandonCole Rauf's mission has always been to make the US Sharia compliant. At what point is Sharia moderate? Similarly, Rauf, in his book, calls for the restriction of free speech and the imposition of Islamic blasphemy law. He's just Anjem Choudry in different dress. Ground zero has always been defined by the government and media as a 7 block radius around the twin towers. It was not until the media came out for mosque did they redefine it.
@shirehorse9 Oh, give over. He has come out and said he wants to Americanise Islam. In the same way that Islam isn't a monolith, sharia isn't a monolith.
@DLandonCole The Corduba Initiative goal is to make the US Sharia compliant and have told gays that their presence is insensitive to Muslims. Rauf has stated that he doesn't believe in interfaith dialogue and that freedom of speech must be restricted. It's not Americanized Islam, it's Islamized America.
From what I’m hearing, there now seems to be an indifference now to the building of this ‘mosque’. A few of the people involved have left Islam, become atheists or gone on to other faiths. There just generally seems to be an air of “so what” about the project, a surprising apathy. Can you imagine that: Muslims NOT wanting to build a mosque? Wonders will never cease.
@PluripotentBrain I disagree; he may have been busy or not seen the video and, based on his previous videos, I woudn't say he's a useless shit, even though I strongly disagree with him on some issues.
@DLandonCole When it comes to the natural sciences, he is great. But when it comes to the human sciences you fails horribly
If I were to weigh his overall contributions to society I would place him in the 'useless' pile. Sure, his has published a few peer reviewed papers in his respective field, but it pales in comparison to the distrust and divisiveness he created with his bigoted videos [which have millions of views]
Lastly he shows no moral character by not correcting false assertions made
@PluripotentBrain Well, we don't know what his papers are and I think he's done quite a lot of good, actually, in advocating reason and science on YouTube.
F religion period. I've been christian and I've been muslim..THEY'RE BOTH BULLSHIT. lol
Take out religion period. If they're going to treat women like trash, which I've seen firsthand, and the imam is crazy then ofcourse they're gonna catch shit. lol
If it's all about "tolerance" then let them put a synogogue and couple of gay bars. Then we'll see how tolerant they are. lol
I found Tf's video to be a bit strange ,the very convoluted point I think was ,he thought it was hypocritical of extremists to preach tolerance ,but I I don't think Muslim extremists do preach tolerance ,most want a holly war ? TF left me scratching my head ,anyways good video response DLC
In other words, this big mosque production is a joint effort to cover up that the big global problem is sadism. Even Jews think it's ok to steal this persons kidneys because they are goium. Or Muslims can kill them because the Imam says unbelievers are x y and z. In reality, you are sadists and need mental help or maybe a ground -1.
Atheist are the same too. Slowly teaching that humans are inanimate, so it's ok to be a sadists to which ever you don't like. It's darwin award so the best physical and cunning machine carries on like nazism. It's all as insane as fake Religious people who want you to submit to them not God.
@sunRsaturn "Slowly teaching that humans are inanimate, so it's ok to be a sadists to which ever you don't like."
We are made of atoms like everything else in the universe. If that truth somehow robs you from your humanity it is your problems not that of "atheists". Molecules arranged in the right way can lead to emerging behaviors like love & empathy and those emerging results are as real as the molecules which produce them. Sometimes the fittest are the individuals which can cooperate (us).
@Macrochenia Do you even know what that means, pal. I read plenty of the stupid comments. No God, no spirit, no soul. Inanimate objects. That's the crap you want to fool people into believing, so it's ok to be a sadist. Your army of drones to hurt the darwin rejects while you get off on it. You're a bunch of loons like nazis. Just like the Religious fakes who want you to submit to them, not God. I just see what you pick for your arguement you are rotten scum.
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the zionist MEDIA succeed to Brainwashed American through CNN,FUCKS all mainstream pro israHELL propaganda by Demonize Muslims image yet the zionist who controll the country stole the banks, bankrupted US ,made u Homeless ,jobless american
9/11 was inside job american sheeple
haifab1 1 month ago
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BS! Muhammad violent SINFUL dead Murderer! Islam/Quran is corrupt! Jesus/Healed/Blessed/Peace/Salvation/GOD! All MUSLIMS who converted to Christianity ARE HAPPY & FREE OF ABUSE & MISERY Islam leaders are killing you! Christians LOVE YOU! PLEASE accept JESUS CHRIST as your SAVIOR John 3:16 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him! REBEL & ACCEPT JESUS! Be FREE of ISLAM LIES Visit cbn.com /radio
tigersforchrist 3 months ago
Thunderf00t does great work with science but really should stay away from this subject. He just makes too many oversimplifications and grouping extremists with all Muslim people.
TheNamelessCharacter 1 year ago
Does Landon think that italy is a mainstream western country?
in3x 1 year ago
@in3x Yes.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
The core issue is that not a single country dominated by islam is civilised in the modern accepted context. Perhaps only with the exception of Turkey but only because of the military who threatens to intervene when muslims forces try to 'purify' the country. And though every religion has it share of absurdities no major religion has this:
www1.umn. edu/humanrts/instree/cairodeclaration. html
The "this-is-not-true-islam" moslims are therefore simply worng.
wimahlers 1 year ago
@wimahlers Albania would be another one, as would Kosovo. There are also various majority Muslims countries that are developing (in some cases rather rapidly) and plenty of others where the problems are not really attributable to Islam (rather Suharto for the example of Indonesia and the former USSR for the 'Stans).
DLandonCole 1 year ago
@DLandonCole,
.
Yes, yes, I know the excuse of that all or most problems are caused by the western colonial past, Stalin or the oil ruling saudi families or some similar excuse.
And talking about Indonesia, less than a week ago I received an invitation for an Indonesian cultural evening hosted by the vice ambassador of Indonesia to celebrate the 65th aniversary of the Indonesia independence. But all this does not hide the fact that also in Indonesia there are problems with Islam (Atjeh).
wimahlers 1 year ago
@wimahlers the Aceh movement are separatist are more of a Separatist movement than a religious one.
reashot 1 year ago
@reashot.
.
The "the Aceh movement"? What is that?
wimahlers 1 year ago
@wimahlers GAM (Gerakan Aceh Merdeka) or in english the Aceh Freedom Movement, a militant separatist group operating on Aceh and like i said there are more of a separatist group than a religious one.
reashot 1 year ago
@reashot,
.
"GAM (Gerakan Aceh Merdeka)"
.
I never heard of it. But I am not even sure if this is relevant. I was referring to the strict enforcement of the so many-ists variation of sharia law enforced on the people on the Aceh peninsula by religious police.
wimahlers 1 year ago
@wimahlers sorry for the wait i was searching for game hint about the Ballad of Gay Tony. what are you gonna do the people of Aceh voted the GAM in power it is part of our country agreement with them to give them special autonomy if it were me in charge i just take them behind the barn and shoot them, you do realize that Aceh is just one small tip of a region on the large island of Sumatra.
reashot 1 year ago
@reashot,
.
"the GAM in power it is part of our country agreement with them to give them special autonomy"
.
OK, fine. I am not familiar with many details, this being one of them, but I do know this: Aceh has a police enforcing Islamic moralities upon people. Thus for all practical purposes: Religious police. Why is that?
Why whould a seperatists group enforce or condone such practices?
Reference: smh. com.au/world/ acehs-religious-police-crack-down-on-tight-jeans-20100526-weap. html
wimahlers 1 year ago
@wimahlers ask our last president Megawati Soekarnoputri about it because it is very typical, our first woman president and she have no balls. They're Separatist they can enforce whatever law they want in their land and as the article say it the law in that region make it illegal to wear tight jeans, i forgot to mention they're technically not a separatist anymore (they are to me and my family) but an Autonomous (the central government cannot touch them) entity within Indonesia.
reashot 1 year ago
@reashot,
.
"...they can enforce whatever law they want ..."
.
But can you answer the question: "Why?".
Why would they enforce religious laws controlled by a religious police? Why?
According to what you are saying is that the central government seems to have no saying in Aceh the question still stands. And I repeat:
Why would they enforce religious laws controlled by a religious police? Why?
What is their motivation if not islam?
wimahlers 1 year ago
@wimahlers sure if you want to be technical about it but why is Aceh the only region in Indonesia that have Sharia but the rest of it does not, we also have autonomous Sultanate in Jogjakarta were they are ruled by a democratically elected Sultan (King) but they don't have Sharia law in fact that region is a favorite hangout spots for the Gays in my country, may i need to remind you that Indonesia is the world largest Muslim populated country in the world but we are a secular country.
reashot 1 year ago
@reashot,
.
"..., may i need to remind you that Indonesia is the world largest Muslim populated country in the world but we are a secular country."
.
A well known fact. So, you have no explanation why they favor sharia law in Aceh and have religious police in Aceh. And yet it is so. When I contemplate wikipedia (Aceh) I read the following sentence:
"The Aceh province has the highest proportion of Muslims in the country...".
Might there be a relation between high concentration and sharia?
wimahlers 1 year ago
@wimahlers the idea that high concentration of anything mean they will create a law that suit them is still a pseudo science or inaccurate science at best.
I know why they favor sharia in aceh everybody in the country know you should read the birth of GAM in Wikipedia (please stop putting law in front of sharia, sharia already mean law in arabic) if you read the Wikipedia about aceh you know they proud themselves as the first muslim convert in the country.
reashot 1 year ago
@reashot,
.
"the idea that high concentration of anything mean they will create a law that suit them is still a pseudo science or inaccurate science at best ... if you read the Wikipedia about aceh you know they proud themselves as the first muslim convert in the country."
.
As to the first part: What science or pseudo-science are you talking about?
As to the second part: Being the first asian muslim converted country is irrelevant. Current sharia law is relevant and uncivilised.
wimahlers 1 year ago
@wimahlers
Population prediction.
To you maybe it's irrelevant but to them it is very relevant did you read the origin of GAM as i told you. I know that sharia is uncivilized but what is the point on telling me this even i already told you that people there VOTE to have an Islamic law
reashot 1 year ago
@reashot,
.
"I know that sharia is uncivilized but what is the point on telling me this".
.
The point is:
a) It is a pattern there were muslims become a majority power the sharia law is introduced.
b) The fact that major islamic representatives of your country have signed the CDHRI (wikipedia). Which originated from by the Al-Azhar university in Cairo. Which in turn is recognized by suni as shia moslims as a respected source. The CDHRI is the major source behind the UN blasphemy proposals.
wimahlers 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@wimahlers
"I know that sharia is uncivilized but what is the point on telling me this even i already told you that people there VOTE to have an Islamic law"
If you have a problem with democracy please take it to some other video.
a) a pattern of what? it may or may not be introduced.
b) are we still talking about Aceh or not? if you want to talk about UN blasphemy or whatever please take it to other video and do not change the topic.
reashot 1 year ago
Comment removed
wimahlers 1 year ago
@wimahlers,
,
Errata:
"originated from by Al-Azhar" should be "originated from Al-Azhar".
"by suni as shia muslims" should be "by suni and shia muslims".
.
Addemdum:
I will not be lectured on the virtues of tolerance or accept bargaining chips labelled in the name of tolerance from someone in order to comply with his religion is ignorant of, or condone, the CDHRI consensus as an icon of discrimination.
wimahlers 1 year ago
@wimahlers sorry for the long wait i was busy being a terrorist ...just kidding i'm actually busy with college.
Don't take a quote from me if you don't want to use the full sentence if you have a problem with democracy take it to some other video.
a) are we talking about "a muslim" (a regular person who walk the street everyday minding their own business) or "the muslim" (a person waving a picket sign saying repent he end is nigh or something like that and it may or may not be introduced.
reashot 1 year ago
@reashot,
,
You said:
"Don't take a quote from me if you don't want to use the full sentence if you have a problem with democracy take it to some other video."
.
There might be some misunderstanding because I have no idea what you are talking about or reffering to. Can you please clarify.
wimahlers 1 year ago
@reashot,
.
"are we talking about "a muslim" ... or "the muslim" ..."
.
Neither!
I am talking about the faith itself irrespective(!) of the individual person labelled "muslim". That is, I can say the same thing for aspects of christianity. Like:
I will not be lectured on the virtues of morals or accept bargaining chips labelled morals from someone in order to comply to his religion has to discriminate women and homosexuals.
wimahlers 1 year ago
@wimahlers b) are we talking about Aceh or we dragging the U.N. into this, i am a Nationalist an Internationalist.
reashot 1 year ago
@reashot,
.
"are we talking about Aceh or we dragging the U.N. into this, ..."
.
Nothing of that. I am talking about objective observable actions of major representatives of the islamic faith. Or, when you deny it represents you or muslims in general, about the objective fact that there is no muslim outcry against these influential islamic organizations like Al Azhar and its CDHRI. And as long as this is not the case no muslim can llecture me on on the virtues of tolerance.
wimahlers 1 year ago
@wimahlers
"There is no unity in any religion. Islam is even worse because there is no central structure"
Islam is not a democracy you cannot judge it by majority ruling it is a semi organized religion with their very own interpretation of what Islam meant to them, every verse in the quran can have a hundred interpretation of what it mean, just because a republican vote for bush doesn't mean all Republican are war monger, have you ever met a Muslim before?
reashot 1 year ago
@reashot
.
You: "Islam is not a democracy "
Me: No religion is.
.
You: "it is a semi organized religion with their very own interpretation"
Me: I agree! Therefore islam is not fit for anything publicly. It should stay out of justice, moras, lifestyle and anything and everything else that is public. Use it in the comfort of your own private being and leave it there.
And since, as you put it, every koranic verse can practically have any meaning whatsoever it has effectively no meaning whatsoever.
wimahlers 1 year ago
@wimahlers i agree with you completely religion is not suppose to become part of politic or anything else as long as they don't hurt nobody.
should we continue or finish because we already drawn a conclusion.
reashot 1 year ago
@reashot,
.
"religion is not suppose to become part of politic or anything else as long as they don't hurt nobody."
.
Reality is: islam is politics, does interfere and does hurt people. And to return to Thunderf00t's original intent:
I will not be lectured on the virtues of tolerance or accept bargaining chips labelled in the name of tolerance from someone in order to comply with his religion is ignorant of, or condones, the CDHRI consensus as an icon of discrimination.
wimahlers 1 year ago
@reashot,
.
"should we continue or finish because we already drawn a conclusion."
.
If it is up to me we can draw a conclusion. In my opinion Landon Cole focussed on and addressed the wrong issue. An issue that was not at all addressed by Thunderf00t. What we discussed and seem to agree upon is the heart of the matter that Thunderf00t addressed as well.
Again, this conclusion is mine and mine alone. Others must convince me to conclude otherwise with (for me) compelling arguments.
wimahlers 1 year ago
@wimahlers the issue that can a mosque be build in ground zero is already being explained by Dlandon Cole can you tell me where is the fault in his video?
reashot 1 year ago
@reashot,
.
"the issue that can a mosque be build in ground zero is already being explained by Dlandon Cole can you tell me where is the fault in his video?"
.
Yes I can! Thunderf00t is not talking about the mosque but about concepts like "tolerance" and "peace" being used by spokepersons trying to defend islam. Excuses also used by the principal promotor of Park 51. (Author of: "What is right for islam is right for America"). It is futile to defend islam, so it is wiser to be quiet.
wimahlers 1 year ago
@wimahlers Dlandon Cole made a 6 video play list for park 51 and in the Video he will address more of thunder foot video you should really watch it, did you watch revisiting tolerance by Cole.
reashot 1 year ago
@reashot,
.
"did you watch revisiting tolerance by Cole."
.
No I don't think so. Do you have a reference?
.
I do know there has been some intense debate between Cole and Thunderf00t. But, as far as I have seen, the disagreement about the meaning and interpretation of words and concepts remained.
My reaction is mostly and mainly based on Thunderf00t's original video and Cole's original reply. I too consider it improper when a muslim talks on "peace" and "tolerance" based on his faith.
wimahlers 1 year ago
@wimahlers just type Revisiting 'Tolerance' and the 'Ground Zero Mosque' : a further response to Thunderf00t
i suggest you look behind the usual stereotype because did you know that my country is used to be colonized by the Dutch and believe me sir they were anything but what they are stereotyped as.
reashot 1 year ago
wimahlers 1 year ago
@reashot Compare also with the Thai separatists in the south of the country - although they're almost all Muslims, it's not about religion.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
@DLandonCole yeah i know the people from the southern tip of Thailand are ethnically different and they feel that the government have abandoned them that let to the fostering of separatism in that region (the same as my government).
reashot 1 year ago
@DLandonCole,
.
"it's not about religion".
.
Struggle for power and natural resources usually isn't. But it is a red herring.
The issue is that the sharia law in Aceh has nothing to do with such earthly matters. It is used as an excuse. The sharia law in Aceh has to do with the fact that muslims have a majority in Aceh despite(!) these earthly separatist movements.
But what about Indonesia as a whole? Well, major islamic representatives of this country have signed the despicable CDHRI.
wimahlers 1 year ago
@DLandonCole,
.
To add to my previous answer...
.
There is no unity in any religion. Islam is even worse because there is no central structure (Like the roman catholic church for instance). However, you can judge the religion by its majority rulings. And in this context you cannot deny or ignore the Cairo declaration of human rights and, more importantly, the actions initiated based on this piece of crap. And it is only in the islamic minority ruled countries this crap is still not common.
wimahlers 1 year ago
Watching your videos, I think you know more about Islam and the Islam world than Tfoot, and you make me more interested into how much of the bad publicity Islam gets is just that. However, I still do not see where Tfoot is wrong about his last quote you have. Islam as far as I have been introduced to it has no love and very little acceptance for any outsider.
atmdusty 1 year ago
@atmdusty No love is a very harsh term, but very little tolenrance and acceptance along with ignorance and learning of respect in the name of the family''s honor might be more correct and accurate?
BalleBaest 1 year ago
Well spoken.
Shalek 1 year ago
Neither George Bush, nor Karen Armstrong, nor Barak Obama have a proper handle on Islam. They labour under the delusion that Islam is a 'religion of peace'. It is nothing of the sort. Islam is a politcal movement which masqurades under the guise of a religion. Even if the intentions of the builders of the Park 51 most are benevolent toward the West, there is no guarantee that the successors will be. 60% of British mosques have been hijacked by extremist political Muslims who seek power.
MagnusNielsenBewick 1 year ago
@MagnusNielsenBewick I don't think that Islam is a single, unified anything, let alone a political movement.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
If there was a ground zero mosque, TF is right, they would be jerks to build it.
chirwan is right about islam. It is mostly direct commands, and any contradictions means the contradiction written earlier must be ignored. It's all or nothing. Islam is an icon of intolerance and discrimination.
Sure there are muslims who do pick and choose (the moderates) like christians and jews. But islam itself have very few parts that can be interpreted any differently just like the 10 commandments.
Gplex 1 year ago
I'm sorry to report, after having watched Rauf give a TED talk on compassion I'm now more afraid of him than the Westboro Baptist Church. His approach was akin to that of new age scammer Deepak Chopra, a whole bunch of nutty, seductive kindnesses that are of no practical use in the real world. What respect you tried to engender for his conciliatory role in the Park51 matter has since fled.
554466551 1 year ago
Abdul Rauf says a lot of things. Like Sharia is compatible with the US Constitution and that the USA was an accomplice to 9/11. Both total bullshit statements.
The proper term is the 9/11 attack site mosque. Rauf gets his funding for his mosque for this site to symbolize a victory for terrorism. To say different is to deny the obvious. Rauf position as an emissary is irrelevant to the fact he's truly a radical.
robertmike57 1 year ago
@robertmike57
"USA was an accomplice to 9/11"
No, he said, "accessory to the crime" - and duh, the US inspired, trained and armed the jihadists -- to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan. Then they came after us for arming Israel, for invading Kuwait, and putting bases in Saudi Arabia. He doesn't sound like a militant Muslim, he sounds like Michael Moore lol
And he said "90% of sharia" is compatible. Which is prob true. Abstaining from pork and alcohol is constitutional. Oh noes!
geodgereturns 1 year ago
@geodgereturns I've heard enough from Rauf to know he's a scumbag raghead. As for his shit on america mosque, I hope he gets it built, I won't protest it, but plenty will daily.
robertmike57 1 year ago
@robertmike57
And another bigot is unmasked.
geodgereturns 1 year ago
@geodgereturns Hell, Islam is all Bigotry . Hating a thieving murdering child fucker and his fictional book of hatred is a good thing. What's your point?
robertmike57 1 year ago
@robertmike57 You don't get to tell Rauf what he understands sharia to be. I'm ignore the rest of your comment based on the racial epithets you use later on.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
@DLandonCole What I do get to say is that if Rauf gets his Victory for Terrorist Mosque, then I get to use all legal means available to discriminate against Muslims. I shall be far from alone in that backlash, in fact, I disdain conservatives on most issues, but not in ignoring the inherent problem of basic Islam.
Rauf deserves no more respect than what he gives. He is skilled at duplicity, perhaps trying to extricate himself from his own mess, so I reserve judgment for now.
robertmike57 1 year ago
I wish all of TF's critics were as civil and on-point as you are. I'd love to see him get back to what he does best.
grimthane 1 year ago
I, personally, only have a problem with religion when it tries to remove my freedom of choice to do whatever I chose to do.
Christianity tried it, I ignored them, they realised that I could not be forced to believe in their dogma and tried to play the 'please don't be mean, I just want to save your soul!' card.
Islam tried it, then tried to forcibly convert me to islam, when I refused, they tried to murder me.
When I laughed at their 'religion of tolerance' I got threatened. Tolerance?
Lollocide 1 year ago
Comment removed
sentenced988 1 year ago
@AGodlessProgressive Thankyou!
DLandonCole 1 year ago
@TitoIsTheGreatest Thanks!
DLandonCole 1 year ago
@Uhmu45 Glad to oblige :)
DLandonCole 1 year ago
It's quite weird, but I've noticed that everyone speaking sense on this subject is English. : /
spazabarri 1 year ago
See you next time? Sure you will, just subscribed.
I think that people like TF make a self-fulfilling prophecy: All muslims are like that, so in the end a lot of what we now consider to be moderate muslims will become radical, because if under attack they will side with "their own", clearly not with someone who doesn't give a damn about what they're actually saying bacause they're muslims anyway.
giliellthesecond 1 year ago
@giliellthesecond Thankyou!
DLandonCole 1 year ago
And here I thought that secular rationalism and frankly: common sense, was on a decline on youtube in light of the "Thunderf00t debate" ... oh boy, was I wrong.
/subbed
TheNameIsUnimportant 1 year ago
Comment removed
micropanic 1 year ago
one of the best video ever made about this subject and as a muslim i agree with you most of muslim don't consider Saudi Arabia as an example of what islam has to offer and even Saudis are working to change their country because they know that their country is not following islam
but their government and king are supported by guess who ?!
the American government !
usethe23 1 year ago
@usethe23 Thankyou and, yes, you're quite right about Saudi Arabia.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
In all fairness, though, ThunderF00t called it the Ground Zero Mosque with considerable sarcasm.
DerShermanator 1 year ago
@DerShermanator Really? I didn't think so, tbh.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
On Islam being "incompatible with even merest hint of civilization":
I would say that it is, in the same way that Christianity and Judaism are.
These are religions that have been brought, while resisting forcefully, into an age of (relative) enlightenment.
Islam, like the other Abrahamic faiths, is not, in it's original form, compatible with enlightened civilization. It is only made so by being watered down.
download333 1 year ago
@download333 I broadly agree, except that for political reasons I wouldn't call it watering it down.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
Fabulous rebuttal. For someone who has shown he can use reason quite well, that was a rather unreasonable video.
firefly4f4 1 year ago
@firefly4f4 Thankyou; unfortunately, I agree with you on the second part.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
As a former Muslim, I understand why you left out there being a prayer hall or mosque inside. It's common knowledge. Just like there will be a temple on site of a Jewish Community Center. I used to go to an Islamic Community Center here, and it had a school and dining hall along side the prayer hall.
lilsorms202 1 year ago
@lilsorms202 I agree with you, but a few people have said I should have made it clear. In retrospect, I probably should have, if for no other reason than to make sure everyone knew exactly what we're dealing with.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
AWSOME VIDEO !!!!!
goozbaghali 1 year ago
@goozbaghali Thanks!
DLandonCole 1 year ago
Just so you know... I was born a Muslim in Syria, now I am an atheist. and it is true what thunderf00t says.. Islam is all about discrimination against everything, Christians, Jews, and atheists. and in Islam there is no room for tolerance.
Islam makes it impossible to be moderate. Your either a Muslim or your not. This is why moderation evolved with Christianity and not Islam.
Good video tho, Subbed.
chirwan 1 year ago
@chirwan Wow, I was just about to make a comment similar to yours. I was born into a Muslim family here in the US. We went to mosque every week until I was about 12. I wouldn't have gone as far as to say Islam is all about discrimination, but I didn't see Islam in the same way you have.
What I was going to say was Islam dignifies itself as an unchanged religion. As a religion that will NOT be reformed or modernized. When I watched Tf00t's video, that is what I thought he was referring to.
lilsorms202 1 year ago
@lilsorms202 But surely Islam cannot reasonably consider itself unchanged? Quite apart from the divisions within Islam, there is the concept of ijtihad.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
@DLandonCole I do realize the different sects have changed Islam, but a great majority (90% on Wikipedia) of Islam around the world is Sunni, as I used to be. That along with the fact that the Quran has gone through the ages, with very minimal, if any, change, in my view solidifies my point. I don't mean 100% unchanged, I mean unchanged to a very high degree, much higher than say Christianity or Judaism.
lilsorms202 1 year ago
@DLandonCole Therefore, Islam (too broad, perhaps much of Islam would be better) is very resistant to modernization or conforming to proven western ideals i.e. free speech, voting, equality, no cruel and unusual punishment, etc. Now I'm not saying every western ideal is perfect, and certainly not that America is the best example.
lilsorms202 1 year ago
@DLandonCole As for ijtihad, I'm not familiar with it, but I looked it up on Wikipedia. And I found it discriminatory with the "Formal preconditions for being considered to be able to give ifta and thus be a mujtahid are: 1. Maturity 2. Being of the male sex*
[...] *It must be noted that a female can be a mujtahid but not one that others can follow (she is not a Marja), that is to say she follows her own rulings but others cannot do taqlid (imitation) of her."
lilsorms202 1 year ago
@DLandonCole With discrimination like that cooked right into the ijtihad. Can Islam really ever be reformed to meet the high standards of society today? And still be called Islam?
It's questions like this, that caused me to leave Islam.
lilsorms202 1 year ago
@chirwan I'm glad you enjoyed the video, but I have to disagree with you. There clearly is room in Islam for tolerance - all I need to do is find one Muslim who is both pious and tolerant - even if others disagree with them.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
@DLandonCole "all I need to do is find one Muslim who is both pious and tolerant" My father and mother would be good examples, as would, I'm sure, many fathers and mothers in Islam. My father especially, because he does a lot of work with the interfaith community here. He's been to temples, churches and schools as well as inviting them back to the community center. Just this summer we had a group of high school students from Israel come share their experiences, and learn how dif Islam is here.
lilsorms202 1 year ago
@lilsorms202 QED :)
DLandonCole 1 year ago
@chirwan Sorry it's taken me a while to respond to you.
I have to disagree; that may be your experience of it and it may well be a common experience, but it is not universal and so the question becomes how we promote moderation.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
@chirwan
yeah well remember this
when the boy bush made a speech, he made it clear , EITHER YOU ARE WITH US , OR AGAINST US
This is ISLAM's agenda
which the crusaders have applied again and again
Christianity was never moderate
Its far left and JEWs were far right
ISLAM is the best system on this planet and always lies in the middle
zeb120 1 year ago
@chirwan Tolerance is at the heart of Islam. That is not to say that all Muslims are tolerant though. However, the religion, when properly practised, is tolerant and does benefit the advancement of science and civilisation.
warmacre 1 year ago
Islam is considered a hate group by many also.... just FYI.
squirreljester2 1 year ago
@squirreljester2 If one and a half billion people are a hate group, we're dead already.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
@DLandonCole We should already be, but our boats are still bigger than theirs.... for now.
squirreljester2 1 year ago
Very well done. I think you should have spent a few extra words on the masjid to be included within Park 51. Just for clarity.
Nhurm 1 year ago
@Nhurm You mean making it clear that there's going to be one as part of Park51? In retrospect, probably.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
I was directed here through various recommendations. I'm not in the least bit disappointed. Very good video. Subbed
Blandamour 1 year ago
@Blandamour Well, thankyou very much!
DLandonCole 1 year ago
Subbed, liked and fav'd. This is a good summary of why I disagree with thunderf00t, and for the record I really respect the guy and hate to disagree with him, but when he's wrong, he's wrong.
ThetaOmega 1 year ago
@ThetaOmega Thanks! Unfortunately, I don't think he has been as rigorous here as he has been elsewhere.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
Ahhhh, .. i love the smell of commonsense in the morning!!
bonnie43uk 1 year ago
@bonnie43uk Brought to you in association with a mug of espresso :)
DLandonCole 1 year ago
you are quickly becoming one of my favorite atheist youtubers, i really enjoy your insight and commentary great video
manutdfan4321 1 year ago
@manutdfan4321 That's really kind - thankyou!
DLandonCole 1 year ago
Favourite. Excellent response for a very worthy cause. Thanks to Ediblenapalm for drawing attention to this video.
Silkspine 1 year ago
@Silkspine W00t! Thanks!
DLandonCole 1 year ago
You've made very good points. That's it, I'll subscribe.
Neneprobeta 1 year ago
@Neneprobeta I hope I don't disappoint with my future videos!
DLandonCole 1 year ago
Another well-researched, and well-thought-out video.
Excellent as usual! Keep up the great work Landon!
RiseOfSuperDogAway96 1 year ago
@RiseOfSuperDogAway96 I'll do my best :)
DLandonCole 1 year ago
Was linked by Thiswasatriumph. He promised an articulate, profound refutation of Thunderf00t's video, and you didn't disappoint, well done.
seanthedonconsidine 1 year ago
@seanthedonconsidine We aim to please :)
DLandonCole 1 year ago
Quote: "It´s not a mosque" I thought their website under the facilities tab say the sight will include: "a mosque, intended to be run separately from Park51 but open to and accessible to all members, visitors and our New York community"
JRBendixen 1 year ago
@JRBendixen Further it states on Park51 FAQ:
"While a mosque will be located in the planned final structure of Park51, it will be a distinct non-profit. Neither Park51 nor the mosque, which hasn’t been named yet, will tolerate any kind of illegal or un-American activity or rhetoric. The final size and location of the mosque have yet to be determined, but it will only represent a small portion of the final structure. "
JRBendixen 1 year ago
@JRBendixen So I will not be lectured by an intellectual nincompoop, whom does not care to research the slightest of facts. I´m speaking about you mr. DLandonCole.
JRBendixen 1 year ago
@JRBendixen By the fact that cannot even search for mosque on the park51 website you should retract and remove your videos. As you are doing exactly what you accuse others of.
There are several other problems with so called facts in your video. And if you are interested in further info you really should mail me. Though I speculate that you are as interested to absorb information as you are to do the actual research.
JRBendixen 1 year ago
@JRBendixen Actually, I did look at the Park51 website. My lunchbox this morning has an orange in it; that does not mean the entire lunchbox is an orange. Similarly with Park51; the fact that it contains a mosque does not make it a mosque.
If you have further problems with my video, make a response.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
@DLandonCole Well well, it was my short sort of rebuttal. Anyway you should have mentioned the fact that there is going to be a mosque. So why did you leave it out, just curious and no games intended. By the by, I have just uploaded a video responding to yours. Trust me, I made it before reading your comment. Making videos takes a little time, not much in my case, but still.
JRBendixen 1 year ago
@JRBendixen I have replied to your video reply in comments.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
@JRBendixen I didn't mention that there was a mosque because I thought everyone realised that a mosque was part of the building. In retrospect, I should have been clearer, although as the Park51 video points out, it will be a separate non-profit.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
@DLandonCole I thank you for stating that, becuase it seems to me the subject is extremely polarized. With even the most uninformed having an opinion. Or maybe especially the uninformed.
Regardless, I am personally an atheist and I can only laugh at your non-profit sort of non-argument. What do I care if they try to make money in their struggle to bring on armageddon or not. They are still working to bring the end of the world :) (That was sarcasm byt he way). For my part they can build away.
JRBendixen 1 year ago
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micropanic 1 year ago
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micropanic 1 year ago
@DLandonCole And oh, you should also had mentioned, that the colour of your launchbox has little to no effect on its content.
JRBendixen 1 year ago
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JRBendixen 1 year ago
The folks who flew into the WTC would actually not like the Sufi Muslims. The Islamic religion is not a one size fits all in reality.
Why do so many people care what Tf00t says or thinks? Who gives a mouse's ass?
MegF142857 1 year ago
@MegF142857 - Because Thunderf00t has a lot of influence, which he has rightly earned. It is, however, unfortunate that he has made two videos wrought with terrible arguments. I'm a fan of TF, but I think he's better off arguing against creationist. I'm sure some of his more irrational fans will disagree.
TheCodedAtheist 1 year ago
Regardless of whether one thinks Thunderf00t has an agenda - he is attempting to talk as authoritatively about Islam in nuanced and unclear matters such as this, in the same way he talked about Creationists and yet, he seems to be CONSTANTLY surprised by the eye rolling that occurs when the response is not the same.
It seems he is either a total naif outside his comfort zone of science and unaware of the nuance that exists in the real world or there is simply something else in play.
ProphetTenebrae 1 year ago
The book Rauf wrote is not available in english...
Go and listen to these :
(the slash are removed)
youtube.com - watch?v=sPzC0ZEZ8NQ watch?v=Qg_iDPRud_c& watch?v=yQE4orNMDAw& watch?v=_1_6rD0OQzo&
I hope you listen to them in their entirety.
DawgPro 1 year ago
Subbed. Thanks for pointing out the existence moderate tolerant muslims. Also, the God of the bible is a warmongering genocidal maniac, but does that mean that Christians lose credibility when talking about peace or anything even remotely humane. What gets me is that this doesn't seem like an ordinary mistake, he's purposely trying to make them look worse than they are. Very disappointing.
coolman9999uk 1 year ago
@coolman9999uk Thankyou!
I don't think he is trying to make Muslims look worse than they are on purpose; he just doesn't have as much information available to him as to give him a more nuanced perspective.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
@DLandonCole I hope you're right. I have many muslim friends (and an ex girlfriend) who are extremely liberal and perhaps I take that for granted. Even so, I hope he re-evaluates his position soon, a lot of people listen to him.
coolman9999uk 1 year ago
At times Imam Feisal Abdul Raif seems like the sort of Islamic leader that would be helpful in this era. He tried to play the good cop to enemies of the west at times. I guess we can't expect him to agree with labeling Hamas a terrorist organization if he's expected to negotiate with Islamic enemies of the US and the west generally. I still think it's a bad idea.
MsMrNoface 1 year ago
@MsMrNoface Agreed on the first point, and fair enough on the second.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
Awesome job, DLandonCole. You picked up on points I missed and made Thunderf00t's argument even weaker and more bigoted. God, I remember the days when I thought he the best resource on Youtube. At some point, he just went off the rails.
eirefrance 1 year ago
@eirefrance Thanks very much!
DLandonCole 1 year ago
@DLandonCole I've been having a spirited discussion with another user on Thunderf00t's part 2 video which has allowed me to further detail in my own mind exactly what T-f00t got wrong in the argument of his video.
eirefrance 1 year ago
BS, Rauf is an extremist, it's a mosque, and it's at ground zero.
shirehorse9 1 year ago
@shirehorse9 In my video, I explained why I thought Rauf was a moderate. Would you care to counter that rather than making assertions? Moreover, the fact that my lunchbox contains a pear does not make it a pear. It is near Ground Zero, not at.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
@DLandonCole Rauf's mission has always been to make the US Sharia compliant. At what point is Sharia moderate? Similarly, Rauf, in his book, calls for the restriction of free speech and the imposition of Islamic blasphemy law. He's just Anjem Choudry in different dress. Ground zero has always been defined by the government and media as a 7 block radius around the twin towers. It was not until the media came out for mosque did they redefine it.
shirehorse9 1 year ago
@shirehorse9 Oh, give over. He has come out and said he wants to Americanise Islam. In the same way that Islam isn't a monolith, sharia isn't a monolith.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
@DLandonCole The Corduba Initiative goal is to make the US Sharia compliant and have told gays that their presence is insensitive to Muslims. Rauf has stated that he doesn't believe in interfaith dialogue and that freedom of speech must be restricted. It's not Americanized Islam, it's Islamized America.
shirehorse9 1 year ago
pwnd :)
detr1mentalist 1 year ago
Cool video.
I watched some of thunderappendages videos and I wasn't impressed. More than a tad superficial as you say.
Pulchism 1 year ago
From what I’m hearing, there now seems to be an indifference now to the building of this ‘mosque’. A few of the people involved have left Islam, become atheists or gone on to other faiths. There just generally seems to be an air of “so what” about the project, a surprising apathy. Can you imagine that: Muslims NOT wanting to build a mosque? Wonders will never cease.
tooklees 1 year ago
@tooklees Sounds sort of like the freedom tower. WTC took like 7 years to complete both towers.
sunRsaturn 1 year ago
@tooklees Judging by the amount of commentary about this, I'd say not.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
@DLandonCole
I was joshing.
tooklees 1 year ago
Great video. Of course Tf00t didn't respond.
Tf00t is a useless shit.
PluripotentBrain 1 year ago
@PluripotentBrain I disagree; he may have been busy or not seen the video and, based on his previous videos, I woudn't say he's a useless shit, even though I strongly disagree with him on some issues.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
@DLandonCole When it comes to the natural sciences, he is great. But when it comes to the human sciences you fails horribly
If I were to weigh his overall contributions to society I would place him in the 'useless' pile. Sure, his has published a few peer reviewed papers in his respective field, but it pales in comparison to the distrust and divisiveness he created with his bigoted videos [which have millions of views]
Lastly he shows no moral character by not correcting false assertions made
PluripotentBrain 1 year ago
@PluripotentBrain Sorry, that should read "But when it comes to the human sciences HE fails horribly"
You do quite well from what I've seen! ;)
PluripotentBrain 1 year ago
@PluripotentBrain Well, we don't know what his papers are and I think he's done quite a lot of good, actually, in advocating reason and science on YouTube.
DLandonCole 1 year ago
F religion period. I've been christian and I've been muslim..THEY'RE BOTH BULLSHIT. lol
Take out religion period. If they're going to treat women like trash, which I've seen firsthand, and the imam is crazy then ofcourse they're gonna catch shit. lol
If it's all about "tolerance" then let them put a synogogue and couple of gay bars. Then we'll see how tolerant they are. lol
BeginnningoftheEnd 1 year ago
I found Tf's video to be a bit strange ,the very convoluted point I think was ,he thought it was hypocritical of extremists to preach tolerance ,but I I don't think Muslim extremists do preach tolerance ,most want a holly war ? TF left me scratching my head ,anyways good video response DLC
sausage4mash 1 year ago
@sausage4mash Thanks!
DLandonCole 1 year ago
In other words, this big mosque production is a joint effort to cover up that the big global problem is sadism. Even Jews think it's ok to steal this persons kidneys because they are goium. Or Muslims can kill them because the Imam says unbelievers are x y and z. In reality, you are sadists and need mental help or maybe a ground -1.
sunRsaturn 1 year ago
Atheist are the same too. Slowly teaching that humans are inanimate, so it's ok to be a sadists to which ever you don't like. It's darwin award so the best physical and cunning machine carries on like nazism. It's all as insane as fake Religious people who want you to submit to them not God.
sunRsaturn 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@sunRsaturn "Slowly teaching that humans are inanimate, so it's ok to be a sadists to which ever you don't like."
We are made of atoms like everything else in the universe. If that truth somehow robs you from your humanity it is your problems not that of "atheists". Molecules arranged in the right way can lead to emerging behaviors like love & empathy and those emerging results are as real as the molecules which produce them. Sometimes the fittest are the individuals which can cooperate (us).
infinit888 1 year ago
@sunRsaturn Pal, you show me one atheist who says that humans are inanimate.
Macrochenia 1 year ago
@Macrochenia Do you even know what that means, pal. I read plenty of the stupid comments. No God, no spirit, no soul. Inanimate objects. That's the crap you want to fool people into believing, so it's ok to be a sadist. Your army of drones to hurt the darwin rejects while you get off on it. You're a bunch of loons like nazis. Just like the Religious fakes who want you to submit to them, not God. I just see what you pick for your arguement you are rotten scum.
sunRsaturn 1 year ago