Millions of us. What kind of idiot would completely ignore the facts? This BC has been challenged by forensic experts who charge that this BC has multiple layers and obvious tampering. Obama has operatives actually in the WH whose sole job is to discredit those who challenge BO's BC.
Hey, THOM - the only racist is YOU! You stupid progressives (read that communists like Imam Obama) can't win any argument and your only fallback position is the Alinksy tactic of pulling the race card. You are a bigot, racist punk.
I'm so tired of people comparing McCain's birth and the argument about his eligibility to the presidency to Obama's. First of all, it was resolved almost immediately.
Second of all, HE WAS ACTUALLY AND VERIFIABLY BORN IN A DIFFERENT COUNTRY. Yes, it was a military base, but asking if that counts as a "Natural born citizen" is actually a question worth asking. OABAMA WAS BORN IN HAWAII. There is NO question.
The senate passed a resolution that said it was ok, and even before that there was really no popular movement to keep him out of the race, even though constitutional scholars say that he doesn't satisfy the requirement. No one cared where he was born because........ he's white. Ask most of his supporters and I bet they didn't even know he was born in a different country.
@newdimensionfilms You're VERY misinformed! State Senate Res. 511 signed because McCain Sr. was serving in the Military & was US citizen. McCain Jr. was born in Panama Canal Zone, Coco Solo Submarine Base. Captain W.L. Irvine signed his BC in 1936. Panama was sovereign US territory at the time McCain Sr. was stationed there. McCain had 2 US citizen parents. McCain produced his "REAL" LFBC, something Obama has failed to produce to this day.
You're the one that seems to be misinformed. First of all, Obama HAS released both his long form birth certificate as well as his shorthand certificate of live birth from the Hawaii department of health (the fact that you deny this shows me that you are an idiot). Second of all, McCain IS NOT a natural born citizen as shown by Professor Gabriel Chin in his paper "Why Senator John McCain Cannot Be President: Eleven Months and a Hundred Yards Short of Citizenship."
@newdimensionfilms WRONG! Chin tried to do his best and stay with his thoughts, but to no avail. McCain is a full pledge citizen with TWO citizen parents born on US sovereign soil, so that is finalized, end. As for obama, he produced 2 FRAUD certificates which have been proven by EXPERTS one of which is Doug Vogt has owned Archive Index Systems Inc., in Bellevue, Wash. Criminal charges have been filed with the FBI.
No sense in U & I arguing any longer, now we sit back and wait, should B fun!
it is ironic because the birthers are cherry picking the constitution to claim that defenders of obama's birth certificate are cherry picking the constitution. lol....
so in conclusion the birthers either have no real knowledge of the constitution or they are racist morons
You guys are morons under the full faith and credit clause a state certified public record IS VALID and must be accepted and recognized by any other state. ITS A STATES RIGHTS clause. If you are truly a republican then you will respect that this so called "short form" birth certificate as legitimate because the state of hawaii already said that this "short" form birth certificate is equally as valid as a long form. EVERYONE in the state of hawaii use their short form to prove their birth.
birthers are focused on race, not law or politics. i'm not political and won't say how i voted but: 8 USC 1401(g) "a person born outside... the United States and its outlying possessions of parents ONE of whom (his mother) is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States... for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years."
This isn't a race issue. It is a FRAUD ISSUE. Why must Obamas worshipers make everything about race. That word hast lost it's sting through being abused. Ya'll beat that shit to death. Now people won't even take you seriously if you call somebody that actually is a racist a racist. LMAO Thanks Libtards.
Thom your wrong.Your wrong because it's unconstitutional. Yes the constitution has been trashed.Do you really think you can cherry pick the law? He is hiding the truth.which I agree is that is/was a citizen.He has thumbed his nose at the constitution since being elected and why shouldn't he. What he has produced would not stand up in a court of law.But who cares..
when was his mother ever in Kenya? seems easy enough to prove she wasn't there the year before, during, or after Obama's birth; easy to verify and no discussion necessary
good point that if you want to defend the Constitution you should focus on priority issues
In Hartmann's debate against Michael Medved, he claimed he was seriously concerned about the erosion of the constitution under the Bush administration ( I agree). Now he says "what would be the problem if Obama wasn't born in the United States?" I know he was asking a hypothetical question, but is he only worried about certain parts of the Constitution and other parts are irrelevant? You either support ALL of the Constitution or none of it.
wow i was watching alot of ur arguments, no offense but u really shouldnt argue on topics in which u dont know much info on, and when ur posting videos, u shouldnt make up things that u believe is right, say things that u know is a fact instead of making things up
what do you mean what harm? it violates the highest law. and to saw laws have been violated before; so what; everyone has the right to seek justice from acts violated against them; obama has violated an illegal acts against all people by simply not complying.
Clearly, the people who think that Obama is not a natural born citizen should join the organization that they really have affinity for - the KKK. There is nothing whatsoever that proves the birthers point.
This is how it works. The COTUS, was written in 1700's, it is interpreted in its intent by the US Congress under the US Codes, and BY the US Supreme Court under case law. You cannot, in every situation, read only the COTUS, for an answer. Many, but not all constitutional questions, have been answered in US Code, but they untested until they have faced challenge in SCOTUS. NBC, has been challenged and defined in SCOTUS rulings. You don't change the COTUS, until US Code is revised.
What is truly funny about anti-birthers is that I'd be happy in a nursing home, watching them try to restore the US Constitution in another seven years.
Birthers are idiots. NO politicians believe this birther thing is real, they only keep it going to keep the right rabid. The reason a politician knows that the birther charges are lies is because you CAN NOT be stupid enough to believe that a man or woman in this country could sneak by and become a Senator, much less the President without the G.O.P. knowing.
It's truly THE single stupidest assertion I've ever heard in my lifetime. And I have heart a lot of stupidity from the right.
And to make matters worse for their cause, Dick Cheney and Bush okayed/approved of his taking over. Why would two hardcore GOP candidates let verification slide by without a fight? Neither of them had anything to worry about since neither were running for an office.
Birthers want the truth. Obama wore the lamb skin of a Senator, hid his mixed nationality, fooled Pelosi, and then Cheney fouled up the counting of the Electoral College vote (see 3USC15) by no asking for opposition to the count. Assuming BHO II, was born in Hawaii, to a USA citizen Mom, and a British father, he is not an NBC, therefore not eligible to be POTUS.
@statelybird3, Yes Obama is a US citizen, and qualified to serve in the US Senate, but he was born a dual-citizen, and being half-British, he is not a Natural Born Citizen, therefore not constitutionally qualified to serve as a US President. Chester A Arthur, got away with, but then we don't ignore our Constitution because one or two people got away with it, and maintain a lasting Republic, now do we?
i highly doubt that. and regardless of your infatuation with the Hartman, the Kreep made him look like a biased, uninformed, and disinterested radio personality who is less concerned with upholding the mandates of the Constitution, and more concerned with his attempts to discredit those who question their puppets.
unfortunately for the Hartman, the Kreep was honest and straightforward, so all of those pathetic political tactics blew up in his face.
Since you want to throw insults: at least Thom Hartmann knows enough to wash his hair.
Hartmann was objective and even gave the Kreep a chance to answer a "what if" question. I pledge to delete my youtube acct. if either Taitz or Kreep are correct and Obama is kicked out, will you do the same? I stand by what Hartmann says on thsi issue.
The one shown is a FAKE....Why is he trying to push so many bills through so fast? what is he hiding. Why has he spent over a million dollars in legal fees to keep his birth certificate, passport, school records hidden? WHAT IS HE TRYING TO HIDE? We deserve to know!! He works fo us.
It's done. Birther queen Orly Taitz has been sanctioned for her political witch hunt. Her own client is already in Iraq and has called her "reprehensible" and "unprofessional."
This is finished. You people are such a running joke.
EPIC fail. It ain't gonna happen. Even if it did, it won't pass that jury, because there is more evidence that he IS eligible than he isn't. That's a fundamental thing that's lacking from this birther movement: EVIDENCE. There is plenty on the side of reality though, otherwise Republicans would have voted against Hawaii's resolution claiming "Whereas the 44th president of the U.S. was born in Hawaii."
For the sake of argument, I am not disputing, BHO II, was born in Hawaii. You accept he was born in Hawaii, and that's OK. He could have been born on Mars, to a USA citizen mother, and a Russian cosmonaut, it don't matter where. BHO II's birth father was not a USA citizen. Under US law the man married to the mother, is the presumed father of the child. BHO Sr, was not USA citizen therefore, under the Common Law of Nations, BHO II, cannot be a Natural Born Citizen.
Unfortunately, what you've laid out has no bearing in the U.S. constitution. Please, outline to me where it says in the constitution that a person's father, regardless of where that person was born, has to be a citizen of the U.S. too, before that person is a "natural born citizen"?
JohnnyBB82, the Framers of the US Constitution, by using the Common Law term "natural born citizen", expressed intent that only a person born to two citizens, is a "natural born citizen". You see two aliens can emigrate to the USA, become naturalized citizens, and birth an NBC child on USA soil. If one parent is not a US citizen, then the child is a USA citizen, but not NBC. It is and has been Common Law for hundreds of years. Did you graduate high school?
Excuse me---if a child is naturally born here, then that makes them a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN. Seriously, WHAT THE HELL IS THE DAMN DIFFERENCE? I DON'T SEE ANY! USA,NBC--either damn way, a child has to be born here to be a citizen! Honestly, you're picking and splitting hairs like a fucking OCD schzoid nut! Did YOU graduate high school---because this is some REAL picky bullshit semantics you're throwing out here! Either way, the man was born here, so he's a NBC--get off his back!
@statelybird3, Obama is NOT NBC! I consider our founding fathers viewed a NBC as the child born into a traditional marriage, to a man an wife, both of whom were citizens of the USA, and the birth occurred in the new nation, the USA. Although Obama was born in Hawaii to a US citizen mother, his father had not naturalized at the time of Obama's birth, thus he is a dual-citizen, not a NBC, and not eligible to be a US president. Remove your color-blinders and see truth.
Epic Fail is 585 elected politicians, law makers, supposedly educated, voted on a politically correct agenda, instead of looking into established laws. Resolutions are not law, they are an expression of resolve. Voting records are recorded and Report Cards are issued to the voters. You want Change, well you can expect plenty!
It has nothing to do with political correctness, and everything to do with the fact that you and the birther movement are more of a threat to our constitutional republic than our legitimately, and legitimate, elected president.
JohnnyBB82, with all do respect to your education level, it is the small band of birthers, who are bravely facing all of the hate, humiliation, and ignorance, as we defend the US Constitution, from the masses of ignorant people, who are products of a failed education system. When I volunteered for the US Navy, in 1972, I swore an oath, to pay may life for that document. I am deadly serious, when I tell you, that you cannot fathom the danger your ignorance is putting the US Constitution in.
You haven't provided any concrete, constitutional evidence to back yours or any other claim against Obama's legitimacy. I'm a navy veteran too, and was a service member under Bush, who, I would argue, set more legal precedent, not found in the constitution, as president, than any previous, or Obama. So I would argue that Bush was less legitimate and more of a threat to our constitutional principles than Obama is. With all due respect.
JohnnyBB82, If we can remain focused, the issue is NBC. Bush was NBC, as his family lineage was in the public eye. BHO II, admitted publicly that he was born to British citizen father from Kenya. The constitutional evidence, is the US Constitution, and the writings of and references available to the writers of the COTUSA. It is like trying to tell you the sky is blue. If your comprehension of simple concepts is so inferior, what can I do? BTW -- are you under 25 years old?
I understand it fully, and you still haven't pointed me towards the actual constitutional amendment or otherwise that Barack H. Obama is violating. I know and have read the constitution over and over and haven't found anything that Obama is in violation of. He is a "natural born citizen" by any measure, including the constitution. Point anything in the constitution that tells me otherwise.
JohnnyBB82, This is how it works. The COTUS, was written in 1700's, it is interpreted in its intent by the US Congress under the US Codes, and BY the US Supreme Court under case law. You cannot, in every situation, read only the COTUS, for an answer. Many, but not all constitutional questions, have been answered in US Code, but they untested until they have faced challenge in SCOTUS. NBC, has been challenged and defined in SCOTUS rulings. You don't change the COTUS, until US Code is revised.
I understand how the constitution works. Barack H. Obama is constitutionally eligible to be the president. There is no precedent stating otherwise. This is the foundation on which your whole argument stands: BHO isn't constitutionally eligible to be POTUS. I contend he is, by the constitution and by precedent set forth by the SCOTUS. Again, point me towards where in US legal code, or the constitution itself, or by any legal precedent he is ineligible, because by all legal definition, he is.
(4) It has long been a recognized principle in this country that, if a child born here is taken during minority to the country of his parents' origin, where his parents resume their former allegiance, he does not thereby lose his citizenship in the United States provided that, on attaining majority, he elects to retain that citizenship and to return to the United States to assume its duties.
In Perkins v Elg, yes, that would be true, since she was born in the USA to two USA citizens. Obama, had a Kenyan/British father, then he was adopted by an Indonesian father, and the laws changed his citizenship to Indonesian, and then at age 10 he left Indonesia as an Indonesia citizen and arrived in Hawaii as a USA citizen, but he cannot ever be changed to a natural born citizen. Therefore he is not nor ever will be eligible. NBC is a birthright, not a paper shuffle or baptism.
He is a natural born citizen because he was born here. Illegal immigrants who have children here, well, their children are natural born citizen. There is nothing in standing law today that states both parents have to be a US citizen, and nothing that singles out the father either. I also find it curious that you would bring up the Dred Scott decision, as that law has been overturned. Obama was never an Indonesian citizen.
@JohnnyBB82 "Thom challenges Gary Kreep - Isnt the birther movement really about racism? " Brilliant. Thom thinks that politics is about being nice and polite and civil. There are no dirty tricks or mudslinging or taking things out of context. That is, until a black man became president.....then the birthers broke all the rules, and tried to paint Obama as a foreigner and a closet muslim. If only Obama was white, then no one would try such dirty tricks, it wouldn't be civil. Racists!
@megagagnon1 Obviously dirty tricks and mudslinging are an everyday part of politics and have been since day one here in America and elsewhere. Where the birthers "broke the mold" was when they used Obama's "otherness" or race to create doubt in the minds of the ignorant to claim that Obama was born in a country other than the USA. THAT is what makes the birther movement RACIST.
@JohnnyBB82 How is it racist to question someone's eligibility? Apparently you believe that questioning eligibility is the greatest insult ever cast upon a politician, and the only possible motivation is racism. I'll give you another motivation. Obama is destroying this country and they want him gone.
@megagagnon1 In what way is he "destroying America"? Again, the reason it's racist is because you've NEVER heard anyone, right or left, claim a president was born in another country. Why is that easy for birthers to believe? Because he's not white! Believe it or not, we've had a foreign born president before: Chester A. Arthur is believed to have been Canadian born, and the country didn't collapse! Regardless, Obama is American born, and there's ample proof.
@JohnnyBB82 In 1916, Charles Edward Hughes resigned from his first Supreme Court appointment to launch an unsuccessful bid for the presidency against Woodrow Wilson, the incumbent. The electoral vote count was extremely close, 277 to 254. During his presidential campaign, Hughes’s eligibility for the presidency was questioned because his father remained a British subject (just like Obama's dad).
@JohnnyBB82 So Hughes, Goldwater and McCain had their eligibility questioned and they were white. Politicians cast all sorts of aspersions on their opponents, what is inherently racist about questioning eligibility? And ample proof? Not quite. No "proof" though his certificate of live birth might be legally adequate, it's not proof of anything. So america is doing fine, you say?
@megagagnon1 Do you seriously think those would've been pursued with the ferocity that the right brings to this fight? Also, there's a huge distinction: The men you mention didn't win. I'm talking about sitting presidents here, not straw men.
@JohnnyBB82 Straw men? Explain how anything i've said is a straw man. I've shown that politicians use any and all means to win an election. And you're ignorant of the fact that if Woodrow Wilson's camp didn't question Hughes's eligibility 2 weeks before the election, Hughes probably would've won. For Obama, this is a slight annoyance at best.
@megagagnon1 Using failed presidential candidates as examples is clearly a straw-man argument. Chester A. Arthur's nationality was questioned during the campaign, but never made it anywhere due to lack of proof one way or the other. There are copious amounts of evidence to show that Obama was born in Hawaii- and no evidence otherwise, yet 45% of registered republicans still want to believe he's a foreign-born usurper. How does that not show racist intent?
@JohnnyBB82 A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar yet weaker proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.
@JohnnyBB82 Your proposition was that attacking Obama's eligibility was racist, and i showed 3 examples of candidates who had their eligibility attacked. My examples showed that there have been others who've had their eligibility questioned for partisan reasons, not racial. That these candidates didn't win, weren't standing presidents, doesn't change anything. And it wasn't a strawman.Copious evidence? What sort of evidence were you thinking of? Obama's mom said so?
@megagagnon1 LmFaO It's been produced!!! Are you kidding? Why is that not getting through to you? The document has been released, and verified by several independent sources, as well as the Republican governor of the state of Hawaii! In the face of so much evidence, and yet birthers still refuse to believe.... It's like trying to show you with a mirror that you have a nose, and you refuse to believe it because you can't see it without the mirror.... Insanity...
@JohnnyBB82 A certificate of live birth has been produced. While that can be used as the legal equivalent of a birth certificate, it doesn't actually prove where Obama was born. Since Obama hasn't released his birth records, we don't know from what this certificate of live birth was derived. Either it's derived from hospital birth records, or from forms filled out at the health dept in honolulu (his mom attesting he was born in hawaii).
@JohnnyBB82 All the lawsuits clogging the courts, all the military personnel refusing deployment orders, all this birther insanity can be stopped instantly - If Obama simply releases his birth records. Not show a copy of a form, releases his birth records. Then we'd know if there are hospital records with a doctors and nurses signature. THAT would be proof.
You mean the one servicemember who refused to carry out their constitutional duty, and the many cases being thrown out by the courts as frivolous? The birther insanity could never be stopped, unless of course there were some sort of time machine you people could hop into to witness the man's birth in Hawaii. You believe that two newspapers would run false birth notices in the hopes that one day the nation might become tolerant enough to elect a black man? Are you seriously kidding me?
@JohnnyBB82 Most of the birther lawsuits were thrown out for "lack of standing", which is the term for the ability of a party to demonstrate to the court sufficient connection to and harm from the law or action challenged to support that party's participation in the case. Many service members have refused, just last month Lt. Col. Lakin joined their ranks. Stefan Cook, who refused his orders to afghanistan - his orders were revoke. Why? Probably because he HAS legal standing.
@megagagnon1 Unfortunately, he doesn't. Birther Queen Orly Taitz has been thoroughly debunked, and was actually reprimanded by a judge for wasting the court's time. I honestly think it's incredibly ridiculous and shows a total lack of understanding for you and other "Americans" to continue carrying on with this nonsense. There is NO evidence on your side, and a mountain of evidence to the contrary. I think you people define "insanity" quite nicely for the rest of us.
@JohnnyBB82 The press named Orly Taiz Birther Queen, and she's a ditz. But there were many other such lawsuits, and some of them are still going through the system. As for evidence, proof, you haven't provided any. You are merely saying there's a mountain of evidence, and at every turn i've explained the problem with each bit. You're the one refusing to acknowledge reality.
@megagagnon1 The proof? Again, google it. In fact, go to factcheck org, or snopes, or USAtoday com, politifact com, Aaron Klein of WorldNetDaily, and a host of other sites that completely debunk this whole conspiracy nonsense.
@JohnnyBB82 And the birth announcements are easy to explain. Obama's mom went to the department of health in honolulu, filled out the certificate of live birth forms, and at the same time, same place, filled out the birth announcement forms, which were then forwarded by the health dept to the local newspapers. That's standard procedure.
@megagagnon1 Unfortunately, that's not the case either. Standard procedure in Hawaii is that when someone is born, the birth announcement is sent out to all local newspapers by the hospital the baby is born in.You continual claiming to the contrary not only seeks to delegitimize a duly elected president, but also a state in the union. Do you not care at all about this country?
@JohnnyBB82 IF a baby is born in a hospital, then the birth announcement forms can be filled out at the hospital and forwarded to the newsies. BUT if a child is birthed at home, for example, and the mom goes to the health dept, she fills out the certificate of live birth AND birth announcement forms there. THAT"S standard procedure. You're trying to wiggle out of the fact that you haven't provided any proof that Obama was born in Hawaii.
@megagagnon1 Proof? Google it. It's right there. Why would a Republican governor be complicit in this supposed lie? Why would a state be complicit in it? What is your motivation for ignoring gobs of uncontestable evidence?
@JohnnyBB82 Gobs of uncontestable evidence. And you want me to google it. Hate to burst your bubble, but there's no gobs of evidence. You just listen to bill maher's funny rants about the birthers and accept it without reservation. You've bought into the left wing media's campaign to crush and discredit and redicule the birthers without checking their goods.
@megagagnon1 No, there literally is evidence out there, and I seriously love that you continue to ignore the fact that a Republican governor and Hawaii's top health official have both verified that he was indeed born in Hawaii. If your nonsense were so credible, why does Fox News not even attempt to touch the story with a 100ft pole?
@JohnnyBB82 Health director Fukino: Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai’i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai’i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.
The health director,according to this speech you pasted, just said he'd personally seen and verified Obama's birth certificate---what the hell more do you need? Why don't you just go fly to Hawaii and look at it your damn self,then? Damn,talk about absolute denial! White birthers gone absolutely crazy!
@JohnnyBB82 What Fukino said tells us only that they have a birth certificate on file, but it doesn't tell us how it was derived - from hospital records, or from certificate of live birth forms.So it doesn't clarify things. Fox news? Who knows why, maybe the powerful globalists want to sweep this under the rug. Why don't you ever question why Obama doesn't want to release his birth records? Seems like he's hiding something. Why doesn't he clear it up once and for all?
@megagagnon1 Key word: Birth certificate, not your dreaded "Certificate of Live Birth", like there's really a distinction...
Like I said, all relevant documents have been released, and Obama really doesn't need to release his actual birth certificate, when the "CoLB" is just as legitimate to the state of Hawaii as the "long form". If it's so easy to become a citizen of this country by simply walking into a Hawaiian hospital and filling out forms, why don't more people do tthat?
@JohnnyBB82 I guess you didn't read my last tell - of course they have a birth certificate on record, but since Obama hasn't released his records, we don't know from what that birth certificate was derived. Back when Obama was born, all that you had to prove was that you were a US citizen and that you'd lived in Hawaii for at least one year. So you never ask yourself why Obama doesn't want to clear all this up?
@megagagnon1 The birth notices were almost to the day Obama was born! How does that explain the supposed year-long gap required to gain citizenship and get a birth certificate? The man is a citizen and constitutionally eligible to be president. Regardless of ANYTHING, his mother was a citizen of the US, and that, de facto per the constitution, makes Obama a natural born citizen of the US. Check the fourteenth amendment.
@JohnnyBB82 Your tell makes no sense. Obama was born august 4, 1961 and the birth announcements were on the 13th and 14th. Year long gap? What are you talking about? His mother or grandmother asserted in the COLB that Obama was born in hawaii, that's why the state of hawaii considered him a citizen, instantly. And although his mom was a citizen, she was only 18, so if barack was born outside the US he wouldn't have been a citizen.
@megagagnon1 You said one can become a citizen if they lived in Hawaii for a year, right? Mr. Obama is a citizen, and there's plenty of proof. I've demonstrated the proof time and again. Like I said, there will be no satisfying you loony toons unless you could actually witness the birth yourself. You've yet to show ANY proof to the contrary, and all you can produce is conjecture and WorldNetDaily talking points. You must be a big fan of racist birther Jerome Corsi... LOL
@JohnnyBB82 No. I said in Hawaii, if a pregnant woman has a baby at home, she can go to the health dept to fill out the COLB forms, and all she has to do is show that she's a US citizen and SHE"S been a resident in Hawaii for at least 1 year, in which case her baby is automaticaly a US citizen. You've told me there was gobs of uncontestable evidence, and failed to show me ANY. You just use a worn out race card.
@megagagnon1 How is what I've demonstrated not evidence? You just use tired talking points like they're reliable and/or factual, without any basis in reality. It's been proven not only that he was born in Hawaii, but which hospital he was born in! Seriously, what would anyone gain from creating this huge conspiracy to make a mixed race baby a citizen unlawfully just in the hopes that America might one day become tiolerant enough to elect a black man as president? Can you answer that?!
@JohnnyBB82 I've heard what the governor said during the radio show recently - what she said about what the health director said is not right, fukino never gave the name of the hospital. Well now the govenor said which hospital, which by the way is a violation of hawaiian law, but that is at best heresay evidence, not admissible in court. She wasn't under oath. You've avoided answering my question about why Obama just doesn't clear all this up.
@JohnnyBB82 Huge conspiracy? What, you mean you don't understand WHY Obama's mom would fill out the COLB forms and birth announcements? To ensure Obama is a US citizen. Why is that a HUGE conspiracy? Explain that idiocy.
@JohnnyBB82 You continue to assert that questioning Obama's eligibility is racist, but your assertion is just an opinion, nothing more. Going through this entire discussion, you've yet to provide any proof. Only 4 things that you seem to think are proof: 1.BC has been produced (No, just the COLB) 2.Newspaper birth announcements (standard procedure, again, nothing) 3.Fukino's statement 4.Governor's radio interview (not under oath, not admissible in court)
@megagagnon1 Questioning his eligibility based on whether he was born in Kenya is racist. This assertion was never made about a sitting president before this one, and that's hardly a coincidence. Congress, both Republican and Democrat, voted unanimously to affirm that the president was born in Hawaii and that Hawaii is indeed a state. What does that tell you? And, the CoLB is a legitimate document on par with the "long form" in Hawaii.
@JohnnyBB82 You can't point to any solid evidence, and you haven't answered why Obama wouldn't want to clear all this up. During this thread, i'm the one that's called your bs, multiple times, but you just move on and assert something else. In poll after poll, 35-60% of americans don't think or aren't sure that Obama was born in the US. Millions of taxpayer dollars wasted, continue to be wasted on lawsuits, and Obama won't clear this up.
NO,dear, YOU'RE the one who can't point to ANY solid evidence, no matter what YOU keep reiterating like a broken record. If seeing a copy of his birth certificate online won't do it, then that's YOUR problem. I mean, seriously what the hell more do you need? Honestly, you're just being plain racist as hell. I don't think it's a coincidence that this topic never came up with any of the previous 39 WHITE presidents.
Plus the lawsuits stopped coming because the people bringing them knew their cases were full of nothing but hot air and bullshit. And the only reason people chose to believe this bullshit is because they don't like him anyway,especially since the mosque incident. And frankly, more millions of dollars have been wasted on this damn Iraqi war than anything else.
@JohnnyBB82 You'll just continue to defend Obama, you don't need any proof, you won't ever question why Obama just doesn't release his birth records - you're hopeless.
@megagagnon1 You're the one whose hopeless, sir. You've provided, nor have seen, a shred of evidence that he was born anywhere but Hawaii. Your assertions are based completely on the conjecture of one website. What does that say about you?
@JohnnyBB82 Gobs of proof, eh? And you bring up a resolution commemorating Hawaii's 50th year of statehood with a line saying Obama was born in that state, Congress always passes those kinds of fluff resolutions. Just another empty statement. No gobs of proof, no logic you simply declare everything racist, defending Obama to the end. Pathetic.
@megagagnon1 Ok, do you want to continue railing against my supposed "lack of proof" even though that's a fundamental lie, or do you want to start coming up with proof of your own? I love your deflection tactics. Very Karl Rove of you...
@JohnnyBB82 You mock the birthers, call them psycho, racist, ignorant, etc. and says there's gobs of proof. I called you on it. If there was so much evidence, clear and irrefutable, not just some heresay, where is it? That's plain, not Karl Rove. Well maybe in your deluded mind...
@megagagnon1 I've provided proof. You're being Karl Rovian by completely DODGING my questions and requests for your proof that he ISN'T a citizen. Don't answer the question, then attack any and all proof, and attack Republican heads of state, as well as doctors who head up state health departments is completely disingenuous of you. Again, where is your proof, and what would Obama's parents and grandparents have had to gain by perpetrating this vast conspiracy? DON'T DODGE.
@JohnnyBB82 You haven't provided proof, unless you have a really flimsy definition of proof. And i'm not saying i have proof, i never have. What i'm saying is there's no solid proof whatsoever, and Obama can easily change that by releasing his birth records. So why doesn't he? Oh, that's right, you're demanding that i DON'T DODGE, yet it's ok if Obama does.
@megagagnon1 Obama hasn't dodged. It's on record, by many different sources, including Republicans who have NOTHING to gain by defending this president. My definition of proof is reasonable; yours, obviously, isn't. What a shame.
@JohnnyBB82 The birthers have made the distinction repeatedly between showing a copy of a COLB and releasing birth records. My definition of proof is seeing a doctors or nurses or midwifes signature on a birth certificate. That is reasonable. Your definition of proof is fine for Joe Schmoe trying to get a drivers license or passport, but not for the job of the president. Hell, i had to fill out more forms and provide more proof for my job than Obama ever did.
@JohnnyBB82 Here's a better question - If Obama has nothing to hide, if he doesn't fear releasing his birth records, explain why the various bills, both federal and state, that would require a presidential candidate to release his birth records, why is there such resistence? This would be for any and all candidates, starting in the 2012 election - tell me, why would they bury such a bill?
@megagagnon1 Because it's nonsense, and has only become an issue once a black president was elected. None of this would've been an issue to you people, even if McCain had been elected, and he WAS born on foreign soil. Birthers=insanity at it's finest.... or silliest... If you can't see the racist undercurrent in this ridiculous birther crap, you can't see past the end of your own nose...
@JohnnyBB82 It was an issue for mccain. There was an eligibility lawsuit filed against him before the election, he gave the attorney general his birth records, and in april 2008 the senate passed a non-binding resolution that asserted mccain was eligible. Lots of job applications ask for all sorts of information, very personal info, why is it so unreasonable to ask for a prez candidates records?
@megagagnon1 It may have been an issue, but was it for you birthers? Nope. Would it have dragged on after two years of a legitimate election to vote in a constitutionally eligible president? Nope. I wonder why? Uhm, presidents are vetted before taking their role. You must not have a high view of our constitution or the office of the presidency if you think they'd let anyone just waltz in...
@megagagnon1 Also, if a senate nonbinding resolution is enough for you to believe McCain is eligible, then why is the nonbinding resolution declaring Obama was born in the state of Hawaii not enough?
@megagagnon1 It really wouldn't have been and wasn't. He's white, and your faction of unreasonable bigots would've let it go without a peep. There would've been no want for an arbitrary new law saying candidates had to produce some meaningless papers to assuage your feign of constitutional righteousness.
@JohnnyBB82 I think McCain is worthless - he's supported everything i'm against bailouts immigration reform stimulus, but that's beside the point. So you're against a law that would require presidential candidates to release their birth records. In the back of your mind looms the possibility that such a law would doom Obama, that's the real reason you oppose it.
@megagagnon1 No, I oppose it because, like all this birther nonsense, it's a big waste of taxpayer and lawmakers' time... Like Governor Lingle said, there are far more important things to worry about than make-believe threats.
@megagagnon1 The birthers are wasting the time! Get it through your head. All viable facts are on the table. It is you and your friends that are unwilling to believe the obvious.
@megagagnon1 Have fun with your total and complete lack thereof. Seriously, if I could be so adamant without having any fact or logic on my side, I suppose Glenn Beck and WND would be great places to go for "news."
@megagagnon1 A sure sign someone has run out of steam. Thanks for the nonsensical debate. Hope one of these days you'll come to your senses and oppose Obama on something of substance. I have no problems with meaningful opposition, and I don't agree with him on many things, but I know one thing for sure: He is an American and he is our president.
UM,most presidential candidates ARE already screened and vetted by the time they're able to run---so why the hell would we need an extra law for something that had always been done--that makes NO damn sense whatsoever. Funny how that's NEVER been an issue with ANY President until Obama--I mean, John McCain wasn't born here,either, but at least Obama was gracious enough NOT to make that an issue in his campaign, but he never gets the credit for that. Anyway, this is just bullshit.
I have never in my life heard of ANY such law---and if this is so damn important, then why the hell weren't the two Bushes, Clinton and Reagan ever asked to release THEIR birth records? Why the hell has only OBAMA been by you idiot birthers? So because he dosen't fit your idea of what a president is supposed to look,act,talk and think like,and because he's got an African name (which many Americans have) that makes him a damn foreigner? What fucking idiots you birthers are! Damn!
Have you ever applied for the job of the President? Then how the hell would you know how many forms Obama had to fill out---probably a hell of lot more than YOU ever did. Hell, I had to order a new copy of my birth certificate because my original one faded and crumbled away because I didn't take care of it. I can't even recall whether my new one has a doctor's signature on it. If it dosen't, does that automatically prove that I wasn't born here? Hell, no,it dosen't.
THEY'RE CALLED THAT BECAUSE THEY ARE fucking psycho, ignorant, and backwards! DUUUH! Why the hell can't you accept that he obviously satisfied the government's requirements to be President! Who gives a damn about what YOU think is proof--you ain't running shit anywhere! HE passed the requirements for THEM--not for YOU! Who gives a fuck what YOU think,anyway? Who the hell is you?
Honestly, you're an idiot---why don't you show us YOUR birth certificate as proof YOU were born here? We only have YOUR word for us. Bottom line is, you can't stand the fact that our President is a BLACK man and that is totally and completely fucking your mind up, and you can't deal with it, so you might as well just take your ass back to Europe since you can't bear to live in a country where a BLACK man is actually running things! The government already checked him out, so STFU!
This country had already BEEN run to ground by the Republicans BEFORE Obama even got into office, so already you don't know what the hell you're talking about--how exactly is Obama destroying our country,when he's basically spent the last two years cleaning up the mess Bush and his Republican cronies spent 8 years creating. If you think YOU can do any better, then why don't YOU run for President and see how easy it is? Another white man in the WH isn't gonna solve our problems!
No,because if Obama was white,we wouldn't even BE challenging his eligibility in the first damn place--this discussion wouldn't even exist. I listen to Hartmann's show, and believe me, he knows exactly how down and dirty politics can get,and even though he disagress with Obama on some things and thinks the Democrats have wimped the hell out before the Republinuts(which unfortunately, is true) he knows this birther thing is some racist bullshit---that's all it is, and you KNOW it i
That's not even true. Once you're born here, you're an American citizen,period. There are MANY people who were born here and traveled/lived other places---does that make them any less of a U.S. citizen? No,it doesn't. According to you, practically damn near EVERY immigrant, or anybody whose parent was a foreigner who came here and became a U.S. citizen would be ineligible under your mistaken/uninformed reasoning. Plus, Obama as a 7-yr old child couldn't choose where he lived.
@statelybird3, What only matters is the circumstances of the moment of birth. Nothing that happens to the minor child, until adulthood really matters to affect citizenship. Obama was born in Hawaii, to a 18yo US citizen mother and a 25yo British citizen father. Obama was born on USA soil, so US laws apply, to a US citizen mother, so US citizenship applies, and to a British citizen father, so British laws apply. Obama is not NBC! Why are you so blind to not see it?
@borderraven wow, borderraven, seems like you're more like a borderline lunatic, or maybe just another Repig retard?! or a closeted gay Muslin? show us SOME proof that you are NOT gay, hengh, hengh!
Please--you and the birthers need to get a damn life---so you're saying this whole country is fucked up/ignorant because we voted for a black man to be president--never mind the fact that we voted (I didn't) for an idiot like George Bush, who had the lowest rating of any President EVER when he left office, as well as being considered the dumbest head of state we'd ever had?
You also conveniently forget that Bush didn't win his 1st election--it was handed to him by the SC!
@statelybird3, No, It is wonderful you voted for a black man to be president of the USA, but ask yourself, did you vote for the skin color or the content of his character?
I'm no fan of GWBush, but given the choice of bastards on the ballot, ...
If we are to save our nation, then we need more support in the Constitution Party of the American Independent Party. Move out of the Republican-Democrat death spiral.
You are one seriously fucking idiot when it comes to this subject, which is sad because you obviously have some intelligence, but you're seriously out of your damn mind if you think THAT'S what happened---585 elected politicians voted Obama in because he's black? Now that is REALLY stretching the bounds of reality here---did you forget to take your meds today,sir?
agh, you wont find this kind of bullshit outside America in the western world...
and the whole "he has to be born in the US",,, are you still afraid zombie king George will come and take over america by making you vote for him?!
oh, and he did show his bitch certificate, change away from whatever nutcase shows you generally watch (im guessing fox news etc) and do some independent investigation and thinking sheep.
the bother is he is a fake....Name one just one local, state municipality, state, or country run by a "brother" that is successful, low on crime and that is not overly tax burdened. There are NONE. Your brother is a FAKE, PHONY AND A FRAUD
DO your research, and don't just assume---there's Southfield,MI, 50% black and considered one of the best upper middle class cities to live in, with a black mayor--shows what YOU don't know, so do your research and STOP the bullshit racial assumptions.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Obama lost citizenship when he moved to Indonesia, because there was no dual citizenship between America and Indonesia. Therefore, Obama is not eligible to be President of the United States.
Residency is not equal to citizenship, just ask Lou Dobbs. Mtdogmt, I would say your ignorance is astonishing were it not so disturbingly commonplace.
@rtbwood
Millions of idiots, get your head outcha ass b, I'm embarrassed on your behalf
JMMG2010duke 6 months ago 2
Millions of us. What kind of idiot would completely ignore the facts? This BC has been challenged by forensic experts who charge that this BC has multiple layers and obvious tampering. Obama has operatives actually in the WH whose sole job is to discredit those who challenge BO's BC.
rtbwood 6 months ago
What kind of utter idiot would believe this conspiracy theory?
If u think obama was born in kenya kill yoself
JMMG2010duke 7 months ago
I love these teaparty guys, they got jokes for days b
JMMG2010duke 7 months ago
Hey, THOM - the only racist is YOU! You stupid progressives (read that communists like Imam Obama) can't win any argument and your only fallback position is the Alinksy tactic of pulling the race card. You are a bigot, racist punk.
jurycom 7 months ago
I'm so tired of people comparing McCain's birth and the argument about his eligibility to the presidency to Obama's. First of all, it was resolved almost immediately.
Second of all, HE WAS ACTUALLY AND VERIFIABLY BORN IN A DIFFERENT COUNTRY. Yes, it was a military base, but asking if that counts as a "Natural born citizen" is actually a question worth asking. OABAMA WAS BORN IN HAWAII. There is NO question.
newdimensionfilms 9 months ago
@newdimensionfilms "it was resolved almost immediately." You better do you homework because you're very misinformed!
mikestheman3 8 months ago
@mikestheman3
The senate passed a resolution that said it was ok, and even before that there was really no popular movement to keep him out of the race, even though constitutional scholars say that he doesn't satisfy the requirement. No one cared where he was born because........ he's white. Ask most of his supporters and I bet they didn't even know he was born in a different country.
newdimensionfilms 8 months ago
@newdimensionfilms You're VERY misinformed! State Senate Res. 511 signed because McCain Sr. was serving in the Military & was US citizen. McCain Jr. was born in Panama Canal Zone, Coco Solo Submarine Base. Captain W.L. Irvine signed his BC in 1936. Panama was sovereign US territory at the time McCain Sr. was stationed there. McCain had 2 US citizen parents. McCain produced his "REAL" LFBC, something Obama has failed to produce to this day.
It hasn't anything to do with color, grow up!
mikestheman3 8 months ago
@mikestheman3
You're the one that seems to be misinformed. First of all, Obama HAS released both his long form birth certificate as well as his shorthand certificate of live birth from the Hawaii department of health (the fact that you deny this shows me that you are an idiot). Second of all, McCain IS NOT a natural born citizen as shown by Professor Gabriel Chin in his paper "Why Senator John McCain Cannot Be President: Eleven Months and a Hundred Yards Short of Citizenship."
newdimensionfilms 8 months ago
@newdimensionfilms WRONG! Chin tried to do his best and stay with his thoughts, but to no avail. McCain is a full pledge citizen with TWO citizen parents born on US sovereign soil, so that is finalized, end. As for obama, he produced 2 FRAUD certificates which have been proven by EXPERTS one of which is Doug Vogt has owned Archive Index Systems Inc., in Bellevue, Wash. Criminal charges have been filed with the FBI.
No sense in U & I arguing any longer, now we sit back and wait, should B fun!
mikestheman3 8 months ago
@mikestheman3
Ok well you've shown yourself to be an idiot so I'm done.
newdimensionfilms 8 months ago
it is ironic because the birthers are cherry picking the constitution to claim that defenders of obama's birth certificate are cherry picking the constitution. lol....
so in conclusion the birthers either have no real knowledge of the constitution or they are racist morons
BigTrollShaman 9 months ago
You guys are morons under the full faith and credit clause a state certified public record IS VALID and must be accepted and recognized by any other state. ITS A STATES RIGHTS clause. If you are truly a republican then you will respect that this so called "short form" birth certificate as legitimate because the state of hawaii already said that this "short" form birth certificate is equally as valid as a long form. EVERYONE in the state of hawaii use their short form to prove their birth.
BigTrollShaman 9 months ago
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BigTrollShaman 9 months ago
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BigTrollShaman 9 months ago
birthers are focused on race, not law or politics. i'm not political and won't say how i voted but: 8 USC 1401(g) "a person born outside... the United States and its outlying possessions of parents ONE of whom (his mother) is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States... for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years."
orangequant 10 months ago
This isn't a race issue. It is a FRAUD ISSUE. Why must Obamas worshipers make everything about race. That word hast lost it's sting through being abused. Ya'll beat that shit to death. Now people won't even take you seriously if you call somebody that actually is a racist a racist. LMAO Thanks Libtards.
DanielDamascusKimery 11 months ago
@DanielDamascusKimery It's the only thing they've got.
Obamination2001 11 months ago
@DanielDamascusKimery they are making everything about race because, get this, they are RACISTS.
cyberpsygen7 9 months ago
The kenyan usurper must be impeached NOW.
MrTabby5000 1 year ago
@MrTabby5000 wish on fucker! and do not reply... dont do it.
spyked1 9 months ago
Thom your wrong.Your wrong because it's unconstitutional. Yes the constitution has been trashed.Do you really think you can cherry pick the law? He is hiding the truth.which I agree is that is/was a citizen.He has thumbed his nose at the constitution since being elected and why shouldn't he. What he has produced would not stand up in a court of law.But who cares..
sparrow053 1 year ago
when was his mother ever in Kenya? seems easy enough to prove she wasn't there the year before, during, or after Obama's birth; easy to verify and no discussion necessary
good point that if you want to defend the Constitution you should focus on priority issues
cruiscinlan 1 year ago
Again more lies of Thom Hartmann are exposed!
nowayout304 1 year ago
In Hartmann's debate against Michael Medved, he claimed he was seriously concerned about the erosion of the constitution under the Bush administration ( I agree). Now he says "what would be the problem if Obama wasn't born in the United States?" I know he was asking a hypothetical question, but is he only worried about certain parts of the Constitution and other parts are irrelevant? You either support ALL of the Constitution or none of it.
SecondAmdmt 1 year ago
wow i was watching alot of ur arguments, no offense but u really shouldnt argue on topics in which u dont know much info on, and when ur posting videos, u shouldnt make up things that u believe is right, say things that u know is a fact instead of making things up
joem30174 1 year ago
bither = code for = nigga hater
billybob101013 1 year ago
i am a super birther i dont believe he was even born theres no proof show me the proof he was born theres no BC to proof it show me he was born
sillycandie007 1 year ago
what do you mean what harm? it violates the highest law. and to saw laws have been violated before; so what; everyone has the right to seek justice from acts violated against them; obama has violated an illegal acts against all people by simply not complying.
rockygreenmountains 2 years ago
Keep tilting at windmills. Glad you are watching Hartmann though, you might learn something.
tombeardman 2 years ago
@rockygreenmountains
You are fucking crazy! WHERE'S your proof, you stunted brain psycho birther nut?
statelybird3 1 year ago
Clearly, the people who think that Obama is not a natural born citizen should join the organization that they really have affinity for - the KKK. There is nothing whatsoever that proves the birthers point.
consect 2 years ago 2
If Obama was born in Kenya and he showed his birth certificate then tell me what doctor delivered him.
I will be waiting.
KingDingaLing090 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This is how it works. The COTUS, was written in 1700's, it is interpreted in its intent by the US Congress under the US Codes, and BY the US Supreme Court under case law. You cannot, in every situation, read only the COTUS, for an answer. Many, but not all constitutional questions, have been answered in US Code, but they untested until they have faced challenge in SCOTUS. NBC, has been challenged and defined in SCOTUS rulings. You don't change the COTUS, until US Code is revised.
borderraven 2 years ago
What is truly funny about anti-birthers is that I'd be happy in a nursing home, watching them try to restore the US Constitution in another seven years.
borderraven 2 years ago
Gary Kreep is a liar. The COLB is most definitely valid to prove birth in Hawaii.
lookylu59 2 years ago
Barack is the first President to seal his college records and has refused to reveal his SAT scores and LSAT score. Why?
007ObiWan 2 years ago
@007ObiWan
Where's the proof of this? How come nobody's ever asked for dumb-ass Bush's college records? Or Clinton's or Reagan's?
statelybird3 1 year ago
Birthers are idiots. NO politicians believe this birther thing is real, they only keep it going to keep the right rabid. The reason a politician knows that the birther charges are lies is because you CAN NOT be stupid enough to believe that a man or woman in this country could sneak by and become a Senator, much less the President without the G.O.P. knowing.
It's truly THE single stupidest assertion I've ever heard in my lifetime. And I have heart a lot of stupidity from the right.
GTR1964 2 years ago
And to make matters worse for their cause, Dick Cheney and Bush okayed/approved of his taking over. Why would two hardcore GOP candidates let verification slide by without a fight? Neither of them had anything to worry about since neither were running for an office.
ChicagoJoe57 2 years ago
Birthers want the truth. Obama wore the lamb skin of a Senator, hid his mixed nationality, fooled Pelosi, and then Cheney fouled up the counting of the Electoral College vote (see 3USC15) by no asking for opposition to the count. Assuming BHO II, was born in Hawaii, to a USA citizen Mom, and a British father, he is not an NBC, therefore not eligible to be POTUS.
borderraven 2 years ago
@borderraven
WHAT fucking truth? Obviously y'all don't want the truth, because you STILL can't handle it,which is that Obama a legit citizen!
statelybird3 1 year ago
@statelybird3, Yes Obama is a US citizen, and qualified to serve in the US Senate, but he was born a dual-citizen, and being half-British, he is not a Natural Born Citizen, therefore not constitutionally qualified to serve as a US President. Chester A Arthur, got away with, but then we don't ignore our Constitution because one or two people got away with it, and maintain a lasting Republic, now do we?
borderraven 1 year ago
the gent on the phone handed this guy his ass in a civil and polite manner. well done USJF.
Weaveuh 2 years ago
Thom Hartman has forgotten more than the Kreep knows.
ChicagoJoe57 2 years ago
i highly doubt that. and regardless of your infatuation with the Hartman, the Kreep made him look like a biased, uninformed, and disinterested radio personality who is less concerned with upholding the mandates of the Constitution, and more concerned with his attempts to discredit those who question their puppets.
unfortunately for the Hartman, the Kreep was honest and straightforward, so all of those pathetic political tactics blew up in his face.
it's not about race, that much is clear!!
Weaveuh 2 years ago
Since you want to throw insults: at least Thom Hartmann knows enough to wash his hair.
Hartmann was objective and even gave the Kreep a chance to answer a "what if" question. I pledge to delete my youtube acct. if either Taitz or Kreep are correct and Obama is kicked out, will you do the same? I stand by what Hartmann says on thsi issue.
ChicagoJoe57 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
obama IS NOT a citizen.....If so WHERE is the Birth Certificate?? Simply, show it!!
BIGDADDY7116 2 years ago
He showed it. Time to move on.
Orlor 2 years ago
The one shown is a FAKE....Why is he trying to push so many bills through so fast? what is he hiding. Why has he spent over a million dollars in legal fees to keep his birth certificate, passport, school records hidden? WHAT IS HE TRYING TO HIDE? We deserve to know!! He works fo us.
BIGDADDY7116 2 years ago
agh,do you even try to read up on stuff before posting?
the constitution specifically states that the president can not put out a bill for congress!, then who is "trying to push so many bills through"
because it sure as hell isn't obama, you Sir are a sheep in a mob.
what school records?!, he was in Indonesia from he was 6 til he was 10 (lived in Hawaii before and after), and after that we have clear records.
passport? what, you want his social security number too?, pin for his bank account?
evilblades 2 years ago
"The one shown is a FAKE"
Nope, try again.
"Why is he trying to push so many bills through so fast?"
Obviously, he's a-sceared that you are on the truth so obviously, he has to push through all these bills in order to keep you from finding the truth.
"what is he hiding."
Aliens
"Why has he spent over a million dollars in legal fees to keep his birth certificate, passport, school records hidden?"
The aliens are controlling him with their mind-rays.
Orlor 2 years ago
It's done. Birther queen Orly Taitz has been sanctioned for her political witch hunt. Her own client is already in Iraq and has called her "reprehensible" and "unprofessional."
This is finished. You people are such a running joke.
JohnnyBB82 2 years ago
Jury trial in 97 days.
borderraven 2 years ago
EPIC fail. It ain't gonna happen. Even if it did, it won't pass that jury, because there is more evidence that he IS eligible than he isn't. That's a fundamental thing that's lacking from this birther movement: EVIDENCE. There is plenty on the side of reality though, otherwise Republicans would have voted against Hawaii's resolution claiming "Whereas the 44th president of the U.S. was born in Hawaii."
JohnnyBB82 2 years ago
For the sake of argument, I am not disputing, BHO II, was born in Hawaii. You accept he was born in Hawaii, and that's OK. He could have been born on Mars, to a USA citizen mother, and a Russian cosmonaut, it don't matter where. BHO II's birth father was not a USA citizen. Under US law the man married to the mother, is the presumed father of the child. BHO Sr, was not USA citizen therefore, under the Common Law of Nations, BHO II, cannot be a Natural Born Citizen.
borderraven 2 years ago
Unfortunately, what you've laid out has no bearing in the U.S. constitution. Please, outline to me where it says in the constitution that a person's father, regardless of where that person was born, has to be a citizen of the U.S. too, before that person is a "natural born citizen"?
JohnnyBB82 2 years ago
JohnnyBB82, the Framers of the US Constitution, by using the Common Law term "natural born citizen", expressed intent that only a person born to two citizens, is a "natural born citizen". You see two aliens can emigrate to the USA, become naturalized citizens, and birth an NBC child on USA soil. If one parent is not a US citizen, then the child is a USA citizen, but not NBC. It is and has been Common Law for hundreds of years. Did you graduate high school?
borderraven 2 years ago
@borderraven
Excuse me---if a child is naturally born here, then that makes them a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN. Seriously, WHAT THE HELL IS THE DAMN DIFFERENCE? I DON'T SEE ANY! USA,NBC--either damn way, a child has to be born here to be a citizen! Honestly, you're picking and splitting hairs like a fucking OCD schzoid nut! Did YOU graduate high school---because this is some REAL picky bullshit semantics you're throwing out here! Either way, the man was born here, so he's a NBC--get off his back!
statelybird3 1 year ago
@statelybird3, Obama is NOT NBC! I consider our founding fathers viewed a NBC as the child born into a traditional marriage, to a man an wife, both of whom were citizens of the USA, and the birth occurred in the new nation, the USA. Although Obama was born in Hawaii to a US citizen mother, his father had not naturalized at the time of Obama's birth, thus he is a dual-citizen, not a NBC, and not eligible to be a US president. Remove your color-blinders and see truth.
borderraven 1 year ago
Epic Fail is 585 elected politicians, law makers, supposedly educated, voted on a politically correct agenda, instead of looking into established laws. Resolutions are not law, they are an expression of resolve. Voting records are recorded and Report Cards are issued to the voters. You want Change, well you can expect plenty!
borderraven 2 years ago
It has nothing to do with political correctness, and everything to do with the fact that you and the birther movement are more of a threat to our constitutional republic than our legitimately, and legitimate, elected president.
JohnnyBB82 2 years ago
JohnnyBB82, with all do respect to your education level, it is the small band of birthers, who are bravely facing all of the hate, humiliation, and ignorance, as we defend the US Constitution, from the masses of ignorant people, who are products of a failed education system. When I volunteered for the US Navy, in 1972, I swore an oath, to pay may life for that document. I am deadly serious, when I tell you, that you cannot fathom the danger your ignorance is putting the US Constitution in.
borderraven 2 years ago
You haven't provided any concrete, constitutional evidence to back yours or any other claim against Obama's legitimacy. I'm a navy veteran too, and was a service member under Bush, who, I would argue, set more legal precedent, not found in the constitution, as president, than any previous, or Obama. So I would argue that Bush was less legitimate and more of a threat to our constitutional principles than Obama is. With all due respect.
JohnnyBB82 2 years ago
JohnnyBB82, If we can remain focused, the issue is NBC. Bush was NBC, as his family lineage was in the public eye. BHO II, admitted publicly that he was born to British citizen father from Kenya. The constitutional evidence, is the US Constitution, and the writings of and references available to the writers of the COTUSA. It is like trying to tell you the sky is blue. If your comprehension of simple concepts is so inferior, what can I do? BTW -- are you under 25 years old?
borderraven 2 years ago
JohnnyBB82,
Ok you are 27, that's close. Your brain should be fully developed by now. I can't understand your difficulty in understanding the concept of NBC.
borderraven 2 years ago
I understand it fully, and you still haven't pointed me towards the actual constitutional amendment or otherwise that Barack H. Obama is violating. I know and have read the constitution over and over and haven't found anything that Obama is in violation of. He is a "natural born citizen" by any measure, including the constitution. Point anything in the constitution that tells me otherwise.
JohnnyBB82 2 years ago
JohnnyBB82, This is how it works. The COTUS, was written in 1700's, it is interpreted in its intent by the US Congress under the US Codes, and BY the US Supreme Court under case law. You cannot, in every situation, read only the COTUS, for an answer. Many, but not all constitutional questions, have been answered in US Code, but they untested until they have faced challenge in SCOTUS. NBC, has been challenged and defined in SCOTUS rulings. You don't change the COTUS, until US Code is revised.
borderraven 2 years ago
I understand how the constitution works. Barack H. Obama is constitutionally eligible to be the president. There is no precedent stating otherwise. This is the foundation on which your whole argument stands: BHO isn't constitutionally eligible to be POTUS. I contend he is, by the constitution and by precedent set forth by the SCOTUS. Again, point me towards where in US legal code, or the constitution itself, or by any legal precedent he is ineligible, because by all legal definition, he is.
JohnnyBB82 2 years ago
There is a chronology of cases:
The Venus, 12 U.S. (8 Cranch) 253, 1814
Scott v. Sandford, 60 U.S. 393 (U.S. 01/02/1856)
Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 21 Wall. 162 162 (1874)
United States v. Wong Kim Ark., 18 S. Ct. 456, 169 U.S. 649 (U.S. 03/28/1898)
Luria v. United States, 231 U. S. 9 (1913)
Perkins v. Elg, 307 U.S. 325 (1939)
borderraven 2 years ago
One line stands out in particular:
(4) It has long been a recognized principle in this country that, if a child born here is taken during minority to the country of his parents' origin, where his parents resume their former allegiance, he does not thereby lose his citizenship in the United States provided that, on attaining majority, he elects to retain that citizenship and to return to the United States to assume its duties.
Therefore he is eligible, by all measures.
JohnnyBB82 2 years ago
In Perkins v Elg, yes, that would be true, since she was born in the USA to two USA citizens. Obama, had a Kenyan/British father, then he was adopted by an Indonesian father, and the laws changed his citizenship to Indonesian, and then at age 10 he left Indonesia as an Indonesia citizen and arrived in Hawaii as a USA citizen, but he cannot ever be changed to a natural born citizen. Therefore he is not nor ever will be eligible. NBC is a birthright, not a paper shuffle or baptism.
borderraven 2 years ago
He is a natural born citizen because he was born here. Illegal immigrants who have children here, well, their children are natural born citizen. There is nothing in standing law today that states both parents have to be a US citizen, and nothing that singles out the father either. I also find it curious that you would bring up the Dred Scott decision, as that law has been overturned. Obama was never an Indonesian citizen.
JohnnyBB82 2 years ago
JohnnyBB82, I understand. I don't concede my point. We disagree.
borderraven 2 years ago
@JohnnyBB82 "Thom challenges Gary Kreep - Isnt the birther movement really about racism? " Brilliant. Thom thinks that politics is about being nice and polite and civil. There are no dirty tricks or mudslinging or taking things out of context. That is, until a black man became president.....then the birthers broke all the rules, and tried to paint Obama as a foreigner and a closet muslim. If only Obama was white, then no one would try such dirty tricks, it wouldn't be civil. Racists!
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 Obviously dirty tricks and mudslinging are an everyday part of politics and have been since day one here in America and elsewhere. Where the birthers "broke the mold" was when they used Obama's "otherness" or race to create doubt in the minds of the ignorant to claim that Obama was born in a country other than the USA. THAT is what makes the birther movement RACIST.
JohnnyBB82 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 How is it racist to question someone's eligibility? Apparently you believe that questioning eligibility is the greatest insult ever cast upon a politician, and the only possible motivation is racism. I'll give you another motivation. Obama is destroying this country and they want him gone.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 In what way is he "destroying America"? Again, the reason it's racist is because you've NEVER heard anyone, right or left, claim a president was born in another country. Why is that easy for birthers to believe? Because he's not white! Believe it or not, we've had a foreign born president before: Chester A. Arthur is believed to have been Canadian born, and the country didn't collapse! Regardless, Obama is American born, and there's ample proof.
JohnnyBB82 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 In 1916, Charles Edward Hughes resigned from his first Supreme Court appointment to launch an unsuccessful bid for the presidency against Woodrow Wilson, the incumbent. The electoral vote count was extremely close, 277 to 254. During his presidential campaign, Hughes’s eligibility for the presidency was questioned because his father remained a British subject (just like Obama's dad).
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 So Hughes, Goldwater and McCain had their eligibility questioned and they were white. Politicians cast all sorts of aspersions on their opponents, what is inherently racist about questioning eligibility? And ample proof? Not quite. No "proof" though his certificate of live birth might be legally adequate, it's not proof of anything. So america is doing fine, you say?
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 Do you seriously think those would've been pursued with the ferocity that the right brings to this fight? Also, there's a huge distinction: The men you mention didn't win. I'm talking about sitting presidents here, not straw men.
JohnnyBB82 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 Straw men? Explain how anything i've said is a straw man. I've shown that politicians use any and all means to win an election. And you're ignorant of the fact that if Woodrow Wilson's camp didn't question Hughes's eligibility 2 weeks before the election, Hughes probably would've won. For Obama, this is a slight annoyance at best.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 Using failed presidential candidates as examples is clearly a straw-man argument. Chester A. Arthur's nationality was questioned during the campaign, but never made it anywhere due to lack of proof one way or the other. There are copious amounts of evidence to show that Obama was born in Hawaii- and no evidence otherwise, yet 45% of registered republicans still want to believe he's a foreign-born usurper. How does that not show racist intent?
JohnnyBB82 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar yet weaker proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 Your proposition was that attacking Obama's eligibility was racist, and i showed 3 examples of candidates who had their eligibility attacked. My examples showed that there have been others who've had their eligibility questioned for partisan reasons, not racial. That these candidates didn't win, weren't standing presidents, doesn't change anything. And it wasn't a strawman.Copious evidence? What sort of evidence were you thinking of? Obama's mom said so?
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 Like Lou Dobbs said time and time again, what's so hard about producing your birth certificate?
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 LmFaO It's been produced!!! Are you kidding? Why is that not getting through to you? The document has been released, and verified by several independent sources, as well as the Republican governor of the state of Hawaii! In the face of so much evidence, and yet birthers still refuse to believe.... It's like trying to show you with a mirror that you have a nose, and you refuse to believe it because you can't see it without the mirror.... Insanity...
JohnnyBB82 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 A certificate of live birth has been produced. While that can be used as the legal equivalent of a birth certificate, it doesn't actually prove where Obama was born. Since Obama hasn't released his birth records, we don't know from what this certificate of live birth was derived. Either it's derived from hospital birth records, or from forms filled out at the health dept in honolulu (his mom attesting he was born in hawaii).
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 All the lawsuits clogging the courts, all the military personnel refusing deployment orders, all this birther insanity can be stopped instantly - If Obama simply releases his birth records. Not show a copy of a form, releases his birth records. Then we'd know if there are hospital records with a doctors and nurses signature. THAT would be proof.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
You mean the one servicemember who refused to carry out their constitutional duty, and the many cases being thrown out by the courts as frivolous? The birther insanity could never be stopped, unless of course there were some sort of time machine you people could hop into to witness the man's birth in Hawaii. You believe that two newspapers would run false birth notices in the hopes that one day the nation might become tolerant enough to elect a black man? Are you seriously kidding me?
JohnnyBB82 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 Most of the birther lawsuits were thrown out for "lack of standing", which is the term for the ability of a party to demonstrate to the court sufficient connection to and harm from the law or action challenged to support that party's participation in the case. Many service members have refused, just last month Lt. Col. Lakin joined their ranks. Stefan Cook, who refused his orders to afghanistan - his orders were revoke. Why? Probably because he HAS legal standing.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 Unfortunately, he doesn't. Birther Queen Orly Taitz has been thoroughly debunked, and was actually reprimanded by a judge for wasting the court's time. I honestly think it's incredibly ridiculous and shows a total lack of understanding for you and other "Americans" to continue carrying on with this nonsense. There is NO evidence on your side, and a mountain of evidence to the contrary. I think you people define "insanity" quite nicely for the rest of us.
JohnnyBB82 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 The press named Orly Taiz Birther Queen, and she's a ditz. But there were many other such lawsuits, and some of them are still going through the system. As for evidence, proof, you haven't provided any. You are merely saying there's a mountain of evidence, and at every turn i've explained the problem with each bit. You're the one refusing to acknowledge reality.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 The proof? Again, google it. In fact, go to factcheck org, or snopes, or USAtoday com, politifact com, Aaron Klein of WorldNetDaily, and a host of other sites that completely debunk this whole conspiracy nonsense.
JohnnyBB82 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 And the birth announcements are easy to explain. Obama's mom went to the department of health in honolulu, filled out the certificate of live birth forms, and at the same time, same place, filled out the birth announcement forms, which were then forwarded by the health dept to the local newspapers. That's standard procedure.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 Unfortunately, that's not the case either. Standard procedure in Hawaii is that when someone is born, the birth announcement is sent out to all local newspapers by the hospital the baby is born in.You continual claiming to the contrary not only seeks to delegitimize a duly elected president, but also a state in the union. Do you not care at all about this country?
JohnnyBB82 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 IF a baby is born in a hospital, then the birth announcement forms can be filled out at the hospital and forwarded to the newsies. BUT if a child is birthed at home, for example, and the mom goes to the health dept, she fills out the certificate of live birth AND birth announcement forms there. THAT"S standard procedure. You're trying to wiggle out of the fact that you haven't provided any proof that Obama was born in Hawaii.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 Proof? Google it. It's right there. Why would a Republican governor be complicit in this supposed lie? Why would a state be complicit in it? What is your motivation for ignoring gobs of uncontestable evidence?
JohnnyBB82 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 Gobs of uncontestable evidence. And you want me to google it. Hate to burst your bubble, but there's no gobs of evidence. You just listen to bill maher's funny rants about the birthers and accept it without reservation. You've bought into the left wing media's campaign to crush and discredit and redicule the birthers without checking their goods.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 No, there literally is evidence out there, and I seriously love that you continue to ignore the fact that a Republican governor and Hawaii's top health official have both verified that he was indeed born in Hawaii. If your nonsense were so credible, why does Fox News not even attempt to touch the story with a 100ft pole?
JohnnyBB82 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 Health director Fukino: Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai’i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai’i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1
The health director,according to this speech you pasted, just said he'd personally seen and verified Obama's birth certificate---what the hell more do you need? Why don't you just go fly to Hawaii and look at it your damn self,then? Damn,talk about absolute denial! White birthers gone absolutely crazy!
statelybird3 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 What Fukino said tells us only that they have a birth certificate on file, but it doesn't tell us how it was derived - from hospital records, or from certificate of live birth forms.So it doesn't clarify things. Fox news? Who knows why, maybe the powerful globalists want to sweep this under the rug. Why don't you ever question why Obama doesn't want to release his birth records? Seems like he's hiding something. Why doesn't he clear it up once and for all?
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 Key word: Birth certificate, not your dreaded "Certificate of Live Birth", like there's really a distinction...
Like I said, all relevant documents have been released, and Obama really doesn't need to release his actual birth certificate, when the "CoLB" is just as legitimate to the state of Hawaii as the "long form". If it's so easy to become a citizen of this country by simply walking into a Hawaiian hospital and filling out forms, why don't more people do tthat?
JohnnyBB82 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 I guess you didn't read my last tell - of course they have a birth certificate on record, but since Obama hasn't released his records, we don't know from what that birth certificate was derived. Back when Obama was born, all that you had to prove was that you were a US citizen and that you'd lived in Hawaii for at least one year. So you never ask yourself why Obama doesn't want to clear all this up?
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 The birth notices were almost to the day Obama was born! How does that explain the supposed year-long gap required to gain citizenship and get a birth certificate? The man is a citizen and constitutionally eligible to be president. Regardless of ANYTHING, his mother was a citizen of the US, and that, de facto per the constitution, makes Obama a natural born citizen of the US. Check the fourteenth amendment.
JohnnyBB82 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 Your tell makes no sense. Obama was born august 4, 1961 and the birth announcements were on the 13th and 14th. Year long gap? What are you talking about? His mother or grandmother asserted in the COLB that Obama was born in hawaii, that's why the state of hawaii considered him a citizen, instantly. And although his mom was a citizen, she was only 18, so if barack was born outside the US he wouldn't have been a citizen.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 You said one can become a citizen if they lived in Hawaii for a year, right? Mr. Obama is a citizen, and there's plenty of proof. I've demonstrated the proof time and again. Like I said, there will be no satisfying you loony toons unless you could actually witness the birth yourself. You've yet to show ANY proof to the contrary, and all you can produce is conjecture and WorldNetDaily talking points. You must be a big fan of racist birther Jerome Corsi... LOL
JohnnyBB82 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 No. I said in Hawaii, if a pregnant woman has a baby at home, she can go to the health dept to fill out the COLB forms, and all she has to do is show that she's a US citizen and SHE"S been a resident in Hawaii for at least 1 year, in which case her baby is automaticaly a US citizen. You've told me there was gobs of uncontestable evidence, and failed to show me ANY. You just use a worn out race card.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 How is what I've demonstrated not evidence? You just use tired talking points like they're reliable and/or factual, without any basis in reality. It's been proven not only that he was born in Hawaii, but which hospital he was born in! Seriously, what would anyone gain from creating this huge conspiracy to make a mixed race baby a citizen unlawfully just in the hopes that America might one day become tiolerant enough to elect a black man as president? Can you answer that?!
JohnnyBB82 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 I've heard what the governor said during the radio show recently - what she said about what the health director said is not right, fukino never gave the name of the hospital. Well now the govenor said which hospital, which by the way is a violation of hawaiian law, but that is at best heresay evidence, not admissible in court. She wasn't under oath. You've avoided answering my question about why Obama just doesn't clear all this up.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 Huge conspiracy? What, you mean you don't understand WHY Obama's mom would fill out the COLB forms and birth announcements? To ensure Obama is a US citizen. Why is that a HUGE conspiracy? Explain that idiocy.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 You continue to assert that questioning Obama's eligibility is racist, but your assertion is just an opinion, nothing more. Going through this entire discussion, you've yet to provide any proof. Only 4 things that you seem to think are proof: 1.BC has been produced (No, just the COLB) 2.Newspaper birth announcements (standard procedure, again, nothing) 3.Fukino's statement 4.Governor's radio interview (not under oath, not admissible in court)
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 Questioning his eligibility based on whether he was born in Kenya is racist. This assertion was never made about a sitting president before this one, and that's hardly a coincidence. Congress, both Republican and Democrat, voted unanimously to affirm that the president was born in Hawaii and that Hawaii is indeed a state. What does that tell you? And, the CoLB is a legitimate document on par with the "long form" in Hawaii.
JohnnyBB82 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 You can't point to any solid evidence, and you haven't answered why Obama wouldn't want to clear all this up. During this thread, i'm the one that's called your bs, multiple times, but you just move on and assert something else. In poll after poll, 35-60% of americans don't think or aren't sure that Obama was born in the US. Millions of taxpayer dollars wasted, continue to be wasted on lawsuits, and Obama won't clear this up.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1
NO,dear, YOU'RE the one who can't point to ANY solid evidence, no matter what YOU keep reiterating like a broken record. If seeing a copy of his birth certificate online won't do it, then that's YOUR problem. I mean, seriously what the hell more do you need? Honestly, you're just being plain racist as hell. I don't think it's a coincidence that this topic never came up with any of the previous 39 WHITE presidents.
statelybird3 1 year ago
@megagagnon1
Plus the lawsuits stopped coming because the people bringing them knew their cases were full of nothing but hot air and bullshit. And the only reason people chose to believe this bullshit is because they don't like him anyway,especially since the mosque incident. And frankly, more millions of dollars have been wasted on this damn Iraqi war than anything else.
statelybird3 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 You'll just continue to defend Obama, you don't need any proof, you won't ever question why Obama just doesn't release his birth records - you're hopeless.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 You're the one whose hopeless, sir. You've provided, nor have seen, a shred of evidence that he was born anywhere but Hawaii. Your assertions are based completely on the conjecture of one website. What does that say about you?
JohnnyBB82 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 Gobs of proof, eh? And you bring up a resolution commemorating Hawaii's 50th year of statehood with a line saying Obama was born in that state, Congress always passes those kinds of fluff resolutions. Just another empty statement. No gobs of proof, no logic you simply declare everything racist, defending Obama to the end. Pathetic.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 Ok, do you want to continue railing against my supposed "lack of proof" even though that's a fundamental lie, or do you want to start coming up with proof of your own? I love your deflection tactics. Very Karl Rove of you...
JohnnyBB82 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 You mock the birthers, call them psycho, racist, ignorant, etc. and says there's gobs of proof. I called you on it. If there was so much evidence, clear and irrefutable, not just some heresay, where is it? That's plain, not Karl Rove. Well maybe in your deluded mind...
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 I've provided proof. You're being Karl Rovian by completely DODGING my questions and requests for your proof that he ISN'T a citizen. Don't answer the question, then attack any and all proof, and attack Republican heads of state, as well as doctors who head up state health departments is completely disingenuous of you. Again, where is your proof, and what would Obama's parents and grandparents have had to gain by perpetrating this vast conspiracy? DON'T DODGE.
JohnnyBB82 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 You haven't provided proof, unless you have a really flimsy definition of proof. And i'm not saying i have proof, i never have. What i'm saying is there's no solid proof whatsoever, and Obama can easily change that by releasing his birth records. So why doesn't he? Oh, that's right, you're demanding that i DON'T DODGE, yet it's ok if Obama does.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 Obama hasn't dodged. It's on record, by many different sources, including Republicans who have NOTHING to gain by defending this president. My definition of proof is reasonable; yours, obviously, isn't. What a shame.
JohnnyBB82 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 The birthers have made the distinction repeatedly between showing a copy of a COLB and releasing birth records. My definition of proof is seeing a doctors or nurses or midwifes signature on a birth certificate. That is reasonable. Your definition of proof is fine for Joe Schmoe trying to get a drivers license or passport, but not for the job of the president. Hell, i had to fill out more forms and provide more proof for my job than Obama ever did.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 Obama has provided all the proof that is needed.
Do you seriously believe he would've been allowed to fulfill his elected obligation had he not met the criteria set forth in the constitution? Really?
JohnnyBB82 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 Here's a better question - If Obama has nothing to hide, if he doesn't fear releasing his birth records, explain why the various bills, both federal and state, that would require a presidential candidate to release his birth records, why is there such resistence? This would be for any and all candidates, starting in the 2012 election - tell me, why would they bury such a bill?
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 Because it's nonsense, and has only become an issue once a black president was elected. None of this would've been an issue to you people, even if McCain had been elected, and he WAS born on foreign soil. Birthers=insanity at it's finest.... or silliest... If you can't see the racist undercurrent in this ridiculous birther crap, you can't see past the end of your own nose...
JohnnyBB82 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 It was an issue for mccain. There was an eligibility lawsuit filed against him before the election, he gave the attorney general his birth records, and in april 2008 the senate passed a non-binding resolution that asserted mccain was eligible. Lots of job applications ask for all sorts of information, very personal info, why is it so unreasonable to ask for a prez candidates records?
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 It may have been an issue, but was it for you birthers? Nope. Would it have dragged on after two years of a legitimate election to vote in a constitutionally eligible president? Nope. I wonder why? Uhm, presidents are vetted before taking their role. You must not have a high view of our constitution or the office of the presidency if you think they'd let anyone just waltz in...
JohnnyBB82 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 Also, if a senate nonbinding resolution is enough for you to believe McCain is eligible, then why is the nonbinding resolution declaring Obama was born in the state of Hawaii not enough?
JohnnyBB82 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 I never said i believe McCain is eligible. I voted for Bob Barr, Obama and McCain were both valueless shills for the rich.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 LoL But you still wouldn't have raised a single eyebrow about this had McCain been sworn in.
JohnnyBB82 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 I only mentioned McCain because you said it wasn't an issue for McCain.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 It really wouldn't have been and wasn't. He's white, and your faction of unreasonable bigots would've let it go without a peep. There would've been no want for an arbitrary new law saying candidates had to produce some meaningless papers to assuage your feign of constitutional righteousness.
JohnnyBB82 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 I think McCain is worthless - he's supported everything i'm against bailouts immigration reform stimulus, but that's beside the point. So you're against a law that would require presidential candidates to release their birth records. In the back of your mind looms the possibility that such a law would doom Obama, that's the real reason you oppose it.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 No, I oppose it because, like all this birther nonsense, it's a big waste of taxpayer and lawmakers' time... Like Governor Lingle said, there are far more important things to worry about than make-believe threats.
JohnnyBB82 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 It's a waste of time to screen presidential candidates? Better to find out later? You'd rather waste court time, like we're doing now.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 The birthers are wasting the time! Get it through your head. All viable facts are on the table. It is you and your friends that are unwilling to believe the obvious.
JohnnyBB82 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 Have fun with your gobs of facts.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 Have fun with your total and complete lack thereof. Seriously, if I could be so adamant without having any fact or logic on my side, I suppose Glenn Beck and WND would be great places to go for "news."
JohnnyBB82 1 year ago
@JohnnyBB82 Ok you have fun too - just make sure to dust off your Obama posters weekly, wouldn't want 'em to get dusty.
megagagnon1 1 year ago
@megagagnon1 A sure sign someone has run out of steam. Thanks for the nonsensical debate. Hope one of these days you'll come to your senses and oppose Obama on something of substance. I have no problems with meaningful opposition, and I don't agree with him on many things, but I know one thing for sure: He is an American and he is our president.
JohnnyBB82 1 year ago
@megagagnon1
UM,most presidential candidates ARE already screened and vetted by the time they're able to run---so why the hell would we need an extra law for something that had always been done--that makes NO damn sense whatsoever. Funny how that's NEVER been an issue with ANY President until Obama--I mean, John McCain wasn't born here,either, but at least Obama was gracious enough NOT to make that an issue in his campaign, but he never gets the credit for that. Anyway, this is just bullshit.
statelybird3 1 year ago
@megagagnon1
I have never in my life heard of ANY such law---and if this is so damn important, then why the hell weren't the two Bushes, Clinton and Reagan ever asked to release THEIR birth records? Why the hell has only OBAMA been by you idiot birthers? So because he dosen't fit your idea of what a president is supposed to look,act,talk and think like,and because he's got an African name (which many Americans have) that makes him a damn foreigner? What fucking idiots you birthers are! Damn!
statelybird3 1 year ago
@megagagnon1
Have you ever applied for the job of the President? Then how the hell would you know how many forms Obama had to fill out---probably a hell of lot more than YOU ever did. Hell, I had to order a new copy of my birth certificate because my original one faded and crumbled away because I didn't take care of it. I can't even recall whether my new one has a doctor's signature on it. If it dosen't, does that automatically prove that I wasn't born here? Hell, no,it dosen't.
statelybird3 1 year ago
@megagagnon1
THEY'RE CALLED THAT BECAUSE THEY ARE fucking psycho, ignorant, and backwards! DUUUH! Why the hell can't you accept that he obviously satisfied the government's requirements to be President! Who gives a damn about what YOU think is proof--you ain't running shit anywhere! HE passed the requirements for THEM--not for YOU! Who gives a fuck what YOU think,anyway? Who the hell is you?
statelybird3 1 year ago
@megagagnon1
Honestly, you're an idiot---why don't you show us YOUR birth certificate as proof YOU were born here? We only have YOUR word for us. Bottom line is, you can't stand the fact that our President is a BLACK man and that is totally and completely fucking your mind up, and you can't deal with it, so you might as well just take your ass back to Europe since you can't bear to live in a country where a BLACK man is actually running things! The government already checked him out, so STFU!
statelybird3 1 year ago
@megagagnon1
You're just splitting hairs--he was born here and that is that, Get the fuck over it--now!
statelybird3 1 year ago
@megagagnon1
This country had already BEEN run to ground by the Republicans BEFORE Obama even got into office, so already you don't know what the hell you're talking about--how exactly is Obama destroying our country,when he's basically spent the last two years cleaning up the mess Bush and his Republican cronies spent 8 years creating. If you think YOU can do any better, then why don't YOU run for President and see how easy it is? Another white man in the WH isn't gonna solve our problems!
statelybird3 1 year ago
@megagagnon1
No,because if Obama was white,we wouldn't even BE challenging his eligibility in the first damn place--this discussion wouldn't even exist. I listen to Hartmann's show, and believe me, he knows exactly how down and dirty politics can get,and even though he disagress with Obama on some things and thinks the Democrats have wimped the hell out before the Republinuts(which unfortunately, is true) he knows this birther thing is some racist bullshit---that's all it is, and you KNOW it i
statelybird3 1 year ago
@borderraven
That's not even true. Once you're born here, you're an American citizen,period. There are MANY people who were born here and traveled/lived other places---does that make them any less of a U.S. citizen? No,it doesn't. According to you, practically damn near EVERY immigrant, or anybody whose parent was a foreigner who came here and became a U.S. citizen would be ineligible under your mistaken/uninformed reasoning. Plus, Obama as a 7-yr old child couldn't choose where he lived.
statelybird3 1 year ago
@statelybird3, What only matters is the circumstances of the moment of birth. Nothing that happens to the minor child, until adulthood really matters to affect citizenship. Obama was born in Hawaii, to a 18yo US citizen mother and a 25yo British citizen father. Obama was born on USA soil, so US laws apply, to a US citizen mother, so US citizenship applies, and to a British citizen father, so British laws apply. Obama is not NBC! Why are you so blind to not see it?
borderraven 1 year ago
@borderraven wow, borderraven, seems like you're more like a borderline lunatic, or maybe just another Repig retard?! or a closeted gay Muslin? show us SOME proof that you are NOT gay, hengh, hengh!
oneirishpoet 2 years ago
@borderraven
Please--you and the birthers need to get a damn life---so you're saying this whole country is fucked up/ignorant because we voted for a black man to be president--never mind the fact that we voted (I didn't) for an idiot like George Bush, who had the lowest rating of any President EVER when he left office, as well as being considered the dumbest head of state we'd ever had?
You also conveniently forget that Bush didn't win his 1st election--it was handed to him by the SC!
statelybird3 1 year ago
@statelybird3, No, It is wonderful you voted for a black man to be president of the USA, but ask yourself, did you vote for the skin color or the content of his character?
I'm no fan of GWBush, but given the choice of bastards on the ballot, ...
If we are to save our nation, then we need more support in the Constitution Party of the American Independent Party. Move out of the Republican-Democrat death spiral.
borderraven 1 year ago
@borderraven
You are one seriously fucking idiot when it comes to this subject, which is sad because you obviously have some intelligence, but you're seriously out of your damn mind if you think THAT'S what happened---585 elected politicians voted Obama in because he's black? Now that is REALLY stretching the bounds of reality here---did you forget to take your meds today,sir?
statelybird3 1 year ago
agh, you wont find this kind of bullshit outside America in the western world...
and the whole "he has to be born in the US",,, are you still afraid zombie king George will come and take over america by making you vote for him?!
oh, and he did show his bitch certificate, change away from whatever nutcase shows you generally watch (im guessing fox news etc) and do some independent investigation and thinking sheep.
evilblades 2 years ago
There's finally a Brother in the White House and now we have the Birthers trying to evict him. What a bother.
jimlaregina 2 years ago
the bother is he is a fake....Name one just one local, state municipality, state, or country run by a "brother" that is successful, low on crime and that is not overly tax burdened. There are NONE. Your brother is a FAKE, PHONY AND A FRAUD
BIGDADDY7116 2 years ago
........ racist.
evilblades 2 years ago
@BIGDADDY7116
DO your research, and don't just assume---there's Southfield,MI, 50% black and considered one of the best upper middle class cities to live in, with a black mayor--shows what YOU don't know, so do your research and STOP the bullshit racial assumptions.
statelybird3 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Obama lost citizenship when he moved to Indonesia, because there was no dual citizenship between America and Indonesia. Therefore, Obama is not eligible to be President of the United States.
mtdogmt 2 years ago
Residency is not equal to citizenship, just ask Lou Dobbs. Mtdogmt, I would say your ignorance is astonishing were it not so disturbingly commonplace.
Indicotherium 2 years ago
evidence? if so, i don't think asking for the birth certificate helps. you guys never satisfied.
capriconss 2 years ago
im sorry i just cant keep up with ALL these CONSPIRACIES.. dude, u lost it.
nggoofri212 2 years ago