Europeans went around the world wiping out millions of natives ,distorting history all in the name of science and religion ----although science hand religion have done good to human kind they also have been used as a rationale to commit atrocities
OH YOU CHRISTIAN IDIOTS !!!! YOUR FIRST BOOK WAS FLAWED !!! YOUR SECOND BOOK IS FLAWED !!!! AND NOW YOU TRY TO MIX RELIGION AND SCIENCE TOGETHER !!!! YOU ARE REAL PRIMITIVES !!!! YOU HAVE HELD THE WORLD BACK FOR CENTURIES !!! CHRISTIANITY OR ANY RELIGION IS A SET BACK TO ANY ADVANCEMENT OF THE HUMAN RACE !!!! AND RELIGION HAS ALWAYS BEEN ENFORCED BY VIOLENCE ITS STILL HAPPENING TODAY !!!!!! ITS A MONEY MAKER THATS WHAT THE ROMANS MADE IT !!! PEOPLE DONT NEED A GOD TO BE MORAL !!!!
23:00 "In evolutionary terms we should help people who share our genes." But we should also help people who will return the favor when we need help, or if it will make us look good so that people will help us. And, all humans and even all life share most of the same genes, so of course we want to help other living things.
It doesn't matter whether deities exist or not; what matters is how we approach the opinions of others. Each of us MUST be respectful and tolerant of ideas expressed by other people, or violence will erupt, as it has around the Great God debate. This violence will destroy us along with our ideas and values, so we must not allow our beliefs to influence our actions. After all, beliefs exist in our minds, not the enviroment. Therefore, we should not let our beliefs govern our actions.
I hate this Dinesh guy. He paints such a rosy picture of Christianity by implying for instance that Hell must be divinely ordained because why would some people want to control other people's behavior? He made it like that had never occurred to him.
I also dislike Michael. His arguments are weak and he avoids attacking religion directly while letting Dinesh trample all over him.
When I invade your home, rape your wife, slaughter your children, cut your balls off, shove them down your throat and slit your neck till you bleed and choke to death, all because you're a Christian, THEN you'll face a new and aggressive atheism.
Someone on stage calling you a moron is not aggressive. Slaughtering entire villages because they worship the wrong God is aggressive. Shooting abortion doctors in the head is aggressive. Flying planes into buildings is aggressive.
D'Souza got it backwards. After the Big Bang all the physical laws of the universe immediately appeared and stabilized within a fraction of a second. The parameters were set at that point, and life as we know it evolved within those physical "rules". If the physical laws had been different, then a different sort of life, based on these different parameters, would have come into being. It's ridiculous to claim "We are the ultimate goal, so the physical laws of the universe were set to create us."
Please visit my channel for the unpopular truth about homosexuality.
A person does not need hatred or any kind of phobia in order to acknowledge important differences between heterosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption and homosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption. Even non-religious people know this.
Homosexual activists, with support from the media, have succeeded at framing themselves as noble victims; it's an effective way to push a social agenda.
@nibletxxx No, we must believe in established values and principles if they have rational basis. We must not create our own values, as this will result in conflict and destruction when other people with different values learn of them. If you live by the values that you create, conflict will erupt. You must decide what is rational and what is not, and them choose what is rational to follow. You have power in what you choose to believe; you can't create what you want to believe.
@AntiTroll101 Sorry,I disagree..Saying we must believe in established vaiues is the same is saying we must be brainwashed..As far conflict with others that will happen every time someone disagrees with you and people create what they want to believe everyday...
Human sacrifice was moral for the Mexica 600 years ago, raping little boys was moral in ancient Greece, killing people who don't belong to your group is moral even now. Lying is moral when it has a purpose, and the list goes on, morality is cultural, I hate it when people assume morality is universal. The world would be very different if it were.
religion is not a problem, nor are the people, but the violent and evil people who USE the religion and change the whole context of it to justify their acts.
@misternipples100 Umm actually it's both the people and the religion. Religions are set of beliefs that people use to mold how they behave. So having beliefs built on fiction is a very large problem. The people who recruit others into a nonsensical thing like a religion are spreading bad ideas to more people. Depends on what religion would context come into play about anything. Religions are things people pull out of their ass, most often for control and actions based on god/book told them so.
@misternipples100 the are able to use religion for evil, because the religion does endorse evil things (read the bible for example... see what "God" gives his thumbs up for... slavery, human sacrifice, genocide, rape, murder, hate/racism... etc etc)... People then use that part of religion to further their aims. But the thing is... it is in their religion! If it didn't exist then they couldn't use it!
@ROdimusprime1987 Perfectly designed, huh? So that's why we wear space suits in space, because it's perfectly designed and we don't need to worry about solar radiation or lack of breathable air. Heck, you can take someone and drop them anywhere on the planet at random and 2/3 times you'll drop them in an ocean and they'll die within a day. The Universe is constantly trying to kill us.
Regardless of belief, i think there's nothing wrong with theism or atheism or whatever else, as long as you're not "forcing" their beliefs on people... I think for a long time theism has been used by the church to secure other goals not necessarily those of good will, and this is why i believe atheism is on the rise. however atheism has been getting a little too agressive as of lately also. in the end if people would keep things to themselves we wouldnt have any of this... (continued)
(continued)... Furthermore, the only way to escape this it seems is to ignore people, and taht's not good IMO, because i like diversity and i would love to hear other people's opinions if they weren't trying to friggn shout in my ear telling me what to do!!! So c'mon ppl, a little more matureness if you will, a little less hate... a little more love, tahts what its about. (continued)...
(continued) ... So, if you believe in "something" because it fills your gap in your life, so be it, if you dont because you feel better that way, so be it, but dont try imposing or proving your thoguhts to people... cause no one has the truth...and tehre will always be someone against what you say... just my humble opinion, hoping you will all be a little nicer now :)
It's funny hearing how Dinesh D'Souza argues that any rabbit that would believe in an afterlife would be eaten alive, yet fails to realize the implications of the very same argument, when it comes to his faith.
Maybe a better question to debate would be 'What could we live without more: Faith or Technology?' If we lost %100 faith - there would be a humanity that would survive, I would argue, for the better. But what about technology? If we had EVERYTHING erased overnight WE had designed, ploughs to iphones, life for HUMANS would cease within years. Animals would continue in an island evolution - same as the %99.9999999999 of the time before 'gods children' were around. Design? Faith starts with F.A.
These pro-christian, weird, non-arguments are temporal and stupid. D'souza for example, cites 'western' charitable morality as a non-evolutionary, god-given altruism, which via some osmosis from christian/catholic implanted belief, puts the West in a more giving, sympathetic position. This is prepostorous - it is because of television and social and fiscal conditioning! I HATE god - and give plenty of empathy & donations where possible so.... D'souza confuses transcendence with the word god.
D'souza confuses history with morality, uses poor analogies with insipid, fabled endings - (a boyfriend working out whether he to marry as a metaphor for not 'knowing in advance' about the afterlife?) - His negative phrasing smacks of a psychic charlatan and if this is the finest breed of christian theologist being wielded in the world then us non-theist/human/rational PEOPLE of the world can maybe relax a bit more. I commend Christopher Hitchens, Shermer et al for the shallow but noble fight.
D'Souza's obsession with Athens and Jerusalem 100% shaping our society is completely wrong! Of course they influenced the way we live today, but if Jerusalem hadn't existed, then of course our society would be recognisable! And also, the Christian 'al qaeda'? Look no further that Northern Ireland...
It actually worries me more that intelligent adults actually believe in good and evil.
Good and evil are bullshit artificial concepts. Religion is also another bullshit artificial concept. What does proving one bullshit concept to be one of the two other bullshit concept do? Nothing!
Good and evil is just acceptable behaviors in society, or whatever people make up.
Of course it does make entertaining video. I watched the whole thing, and was fun.
@Neosaigo Prove anything you just said. Good and evil are a reality in the world, and many human behaviorist experts and sociology majors have written essays on the subject of human evil and good. Because good and evil are a fabric of the structure of religion does *NOT* man religion invented it. Have you ever considered that it's not society that determines right and wrong, but right and wrong that determines society?
The USA, is one of the most religious, countries in the world. When a natural disaster any were in the world, The USA is always one of the countries, alongside most muslim countries, that donate the least. Scandinavian countries is among the least religious countries in the world, but they are the ones that donate the most. Is that because, religious people are stingy? Or is it just religious peoples, way of following the bible?
@MrMaika77 Prove anything you just said. The USA donates the least? Provide figures and facts. Any time there is a disaster in the world (like Haiti and Japan) American soldiers are there. 65% of charities are religion. Major USA charities that are religious include St. Jude, The Salvation Army, and Compassion International. Seriously. You are ignorant.
"When i give up my seat to an old lady, I'm not doing it because she'll give up her seat to me next week"... no... but you're doing out of a case of both empathy for her elderly condition and out because when you get to her age, you would like someone to do that for you.
@NotSoGrimProductions That's absurd. Your argument amounts to nothing more than assuming you know the intentions of every human being who does good. In fact, I have opened doors for elderly people and not once did reciprocation to me as an elderly person come to mind. Why do people donate money, anonymously, to people who are poor and in who's situation they'll never be in? Reciprocation is not a factor if the person would never need the reciprocation, is it?
@ColibriAnna08 - I said that was reciprocation was one reason, the other being empathy, which is true. I never intended to come across that i knew the motives to the good people do, i was just responding to Dinesh's comments that rociprocation doesn't play any part, which of course it does, in a direct way of someone doing the same for you, or on a personal way, where you feel good because of what you've done or have generated some positive karma for yourself (or whatever you wish to call it)
@NotSoGrimProductions Does it exist beyond the ability of your comprehension that some people do good things, often at their own inconvenience, and truly want or need no reciprocation? When I was 17, I sponsored a child in the Philippines even though I was poor with two waitress jobs. Do you not realize sometimes people, like Danny Thomas who founded St. Jude, do good BECAUSE they've had good kharma in their life, not for it? Yes, sometimes, feeling good or reciprocation are not a factor.
I have the urge to stop the video every 30 seconds when Dinesh is talking to "face-palm" and point out why even the most basic things he says are wrong. That he says our modern day morals come through christianity... thanks but if I wanted morality, the Bible is the last place I'd go to get it. "Thall shalt not kill... unless they're a different culture or religion... then it's a holy war or ur doing the Lord's work."
I know, I'm struggling to watch the lack of sophistication Dinesh displays. He actually makes the claim that the value of life etc comes from Christianity, which is preposterous. We had about 1500 years of Christianity where human life was worth exceedingly little, then at around 1700 the Enlightenment kicked in and with it a wave of humanism. The wave of humanism (a secular concept) brought forth modern values of human life. You'd think an educated man would know this.
The question about morality without religion? I live in Estonia, the least religious country in the world, and we don't go around killing and raping each other. We give money to the red cross and donate blood and help the ones in need just like people in any normal country. Western culture just does not need religion in the twenty first century, it's just blocking the way of science and further development of the global society.
Did anyone else notice that at 18:11, the hostess mistakenly referred to the SIX million atheists in America, as opposed to the actual figure of THIRTY million?
I got maybe 5 min into Dinesh's first statements....And I found that absolutely everything he said was wrong. "man was born in gods image, which gives him divine ability to see what is inherently right." but the romans didnt have this??? so which is it buddy????????
D'Souza is a slime. For example Shirmer clearly stated how it would be true that individuals would need to be truly moral and this would explain why we would do things for which we would never benefit and THEN D'Souza completely ignores this claim and argues a different point!!! As is usual, the atheist argues in a more moral manner.
@drstrangelove09 Shrimer's point is absurd because it is based solely on the highly presumptuous claim that every moral person does good for this reason, and it excludes the fact that many religious people donate money anonymously and not for recognition.
@ColibriAnna08 Shermer makes this man look absurd to be honest. The people who donate anonymously are just religious people that take The Bible literally. Dinesh also tries to claim that Atheism has caused more deaths than religion, which is the main reason why he is insane/delusional.
@theBartone9119 "The people who donate anonymously are just religious people take the Bible literally." Aaand? Because they are fundamentalists, why does that discredit their selfless efforts in any way? When will atheists accept that religious people do a damn lot of good in this world through charity? It's like atheists want to deny everything that sets religion in a good light at all. The world isn't black-and-white. There is good to all things as there is bad.
@ColibriAnna08 I can tell from rereading my comment that my main point was not the exact details of the argument (which is what you seem to be addressing) but instead the dishonest methods of debate used by D'Souza... when there is a good point that he probably has no answer for he does what a politician does, changes the point. I see this all the time when talking to the religious. Religious supporters should adhere to ethical debating practices. Isn't ethical behavior their whole shtick?
@drstrangelove09 You're judgement of him makes no sense. If D'Souza has no answer, then what is he supposed to do? Don't be so high-and-mighty. After all, I don't see that he changed the subject. What Shrimer said bordered on reciprocal altruism and that is exactly was D'Souza addressed in response to him.
@ColibriAnna08 When a person doesn't have an answer to a good point that means the other person is correct, so what should be done in that case is to admit that the other person is correct. That is the moral thing to do. To do otherwise is to be a slime, hence my point. Also, what's true is true, it has nothing to do with being high and mighty and by the way, speaking of high and mighty, I get a huge "high and mighty" vibe coming from D'Souza, don't you? Why defend DSouza if that bothers you?
@drstrangelove09 Or, could it mean that D'Souza didn't have an immediate response and would need time to consider it? Or, could it mean that D'Souza is just incapable of answering as his own fault, not necessarily because Shermer is right? Of course, you don't consider that. I disproved Shermer's statement already, so no he is not correct. Yes, by calling D'Souza a slime and personally attacking him you are being self-righteous and unfair.
@ColibriAnna08 OK, let's say he had no response, then if it were you or I, if it was a reasonable person, he would admit that, not simply change the subject, he would say: "Good point, I have no response to that, you could be correct, I will think about it." And this was not an isolated incident. D'Souza is not behaving in a moral manner in these debates. I find that extremely ironic given that they are discussing morality. I do not see how you can support such a person.
@drstrangelove09 I now understand what you mean. A reasonable person would do that. But he did talk about reciprocal altruism and that's exactly what Shermer's analogy was. He didn't ignore it entirely. But I stress that you stop putting D'Souza on trial and judging his entire character by a Youtube video.
@ColibriAnna08 On the question of whether or not you have answered the point,I can not say.I have forgotten the exact point that was being made. I wish that I had included a timestamp so I can review it without listening to the entire thing. I suspect that Shermer was correct.I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and listen again so that I can respond.As to whether I'm being harsh or not, I think it is quite obvious that D'Souza is a slime.I listened to him many times, I calls 'em as I sees 'em.
@ColibriAnna08 OK, I listened to it again, Shermer's response that I was referring to starts at 24:30. So Shermer makes the point that "only works if you actually are a moral person". I do not see the flaw in this. I do not think that is absurd or presumptuous. I do not see why you mention the issue of whether donations are anonymous or not since Shermer is making the point that the result will a truly moral person. And having watched it again my opinion of D'Souza's response is reinforced.
@JohnLions He distorts facts and vocabulary. Aggressive atheism, new atheism, islamic radicalism, "science too is based on a certain kind of a faith" etc. Inquisition killed 2000 people in 350 years - not true and distorted. the question should be what the population was, what the percentage of people was killed, what sources said it etc. Atheist regimes? Mao, Stalin, Hitler etc. deeply believed in ideologies. etc. I recommend you to study yourself. For the beginning wikipedia is not so bad.
@Wyga23 Haha the backwards logic of your argument in your response to JohnLions comment makes me want to believe that wikipedia did not only start your research but also end it
Universe is a chaotic system.. Everything is governed by physical laws, although to us unpredictable, it still follows a logical order of events. Everything that has happened and will happen has already been decided by the exact way the BIG-BANG happened. If the big bang had happened in a just minutely different way, bcoz of butterfly effect, a completely different set of events would of occurred and this world wud have been a different place altogether. This is scientific explanation of FATE.
Religion & Politics are synonymous. This is where they got their idea for "church." call it sectarianism (religion). It's mammon worship. Hebrews 9: 11—12 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building (creation); Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Oh wow Dinesh has to know he's full of shit here, he's been in too many debates to really think his arguments are intellectually sufficient. They may be sufficient for some but not for the discussion itself. I know that if even I were to sit down and talk with Dinesh he'd concede a lot more than where he goes with his arguments here. That's what sucks about public debates, anyone can pander to the lowest common denominator (which is usually religious and the majority, more or less).
35:30 "Michael is making an equal leap of faith to not believe." What a ridiculous claim. So Dinesh, the people who believe in Horoscopes, or Krishna are making a leap of faith and you are making an equal leap of faith to not believe?
The only time a leap of faith is required is when there is a lack of evidence, then non belief requires no faith and no leaping whatsover.
Dinesh's "Nissan" argument makes no sense. His hypothetical "If the Japanese guy designed the Nissan, then who designed the Japanese guy?" would mean that Shermer takes the position of dismissing the existence of the Japanese guy. His response to Shermer's dismissal of intelligent design dismisses intelligent design one step further.
It is funny how all comments here are made by atheists, religious people just don't give a shit. I wish they were more like Dinesh and at least knew enough about their religion to be able to have an intelligent conversation with them. Yes, he's wrong but hey, he's someone you can at least have a nice conversation with.
I'd rather people weren't like Dinesh, I'd rather that people be honest, I don't like having conversations with dishonest people who misrepresent my views and then try to berate the man made of straw. It doesn't matter how intelligent the man is, he lacks honesty. It seems you've been living under a rock, deists, agnostics and atheists tend to know more about religions on average, compared to the religious.
@rayomundo28 I wouldn't go so far as to say intelligent conversation. Dinesh doesn't strike me as knowledgeable at all. I lost count of all the fallacies he has committed so far, and I'm only halfway through the video. But this is just me nitpicking. I do get your point, and furthermore, I agree wholeheartedly with you.
it is the moderates in religion who give the extremists their platform. This absurd notion that religion is to be excluded from any real dialogue or critique is absurd. Religion is fantasy. How significant it is is a measure of just that; how important and central mind/imagination is to the human experience.
I dont know how much common sense Shermer can possibly have either..hhe's supposed to be a skeptic? and yet believes & defends the official 911 story despite the literal mountain of facts that reveal the use of explosives in the destruction of wtc 1,2&7. Even the work of David Chandler and Jonathon Cole has proved beyond any shadow of a doubt that despite how incredible it may seem to the casual observer that those buildings had to have been blown u with pre-planted explosives. LOOK for yourself
GOD is perfection. religion is not. GOD is good. religion is not. GOD has no limits. religion does. GOD loves everyone. religion does not. GOD is unconditional. religion is conditional. GOD doesnt use fear tactics. religion uses fear. GOD isnt manmade. religion is manmade. GOD IS FOREVER...RELIGION IS NOT. GOD WILL NOT DIE. RELIGION WILL.
@Xikesxikes, I believe he was softer on Dinesh because Shermer was in very obviously hostile territory for his message. He knew he wouldn't convince anyone to become an atheist, and his stronger arguments would be lost on them, so he simply tried to make the point that atheists are not baby eaters or amoral satanists. I think he represented us very well to the religious side as a rational, respectful adult who can have an argument without turning it personal.
I'm all good. I am very nice. But I really, REALLY want to punch the shit out of dinesh. Just to restore sanity. It'd be fun. Fuckin punch punch punch.
WTF? Did she say that they will continue to remember the 6 million American atheists? That's cool and all, but she has already left out 54 million other American atheists...
I'm pretty sure Stalin wasn't in it for the atheism, just for the power and "glory". But hey, "God" made Stalin and his troopers pillage their own nation of millions of people, amirite?
I love the christians opening arguement about how an athiet must take apon faith that the universe is rational. Very very clever... and wrong. The only things the athiest must take on faith is this: "The information relayed to me by me senses reflect the state of the world around me", "My memories contain information about events that actualy occored"
"I don't have any genes in common with that guy" This isn't the first Christian I've seen suggest such a thing. Wow, they sure are dark underneath the cover.
I think the rebuttal to "Can you be good without God?" in response to Dinesh could have been "Well, Dinesh you said that Christianity is a source of good that unbelievers are not aware of. Ok, but that doesn't indicate there is a god behind it considering the possibility that Christianity is just a man-made creation; then that further supports the idea that good can exist without God". Dinesh's argument basically didn't require God to exist, only the principles of Christianity.
Yes. Religion is the most wretched & evil pack of lies & witchcraft ever let loose in the world. The worst are the fiendish, imperialistic cults of the Bible & Koran. Evil apocalyptic madness meant only to serve those with political & economic power.
Men & and women are born essentially good creatures who are made evil by the witches of Judaism, Christianity & Islam. Religion seeks to divide people against one another, to the benefit of shamanistic ghouls.
You may say people are born essentially good, but my own testimony differs. I am not a good person, and I never have been, by any definition of good that is somewhat reasonable.
You must be a modern day Republican then in the image of a piece of human garbage like Newt Gingrich and the rest the these crazy dominionists in the GOP.
People kill people because they don't believe in gods the same way they cull horses because they don't believe in the Avenging Unicorn.
How stupid do you have to be to think that people act based on things they don't believe in? People only ever act based on what they believe and want, whether it's power, paranoia, etc.
lol no doubt...An atheist would never harm anyone over religion, many atheists are turned atheist due to the violence and puerile antics of religion itself...They would never embrace that, that would completely defeat the purpose of atheism LOL
D'Souza come off like some sort of christian apologist. Christians loved slavery in America. 6000 people killed in the Spanish Inquisition ? Wow this guy is really blocking out reality. Ask a native american how much christians value human rights. Oh, that's right , there All dead. Christians are all good, everything else is has killed millions. D'Souza is the Rush Limbaugh of religion.
I would have thought this was a pointless question. Just turn on the news and you can see the answer for yourself. Lets stop fucking around with religious people, lets brand them as the mentally deluded arrogant power hungry retrobates they are. Relgious faith should have died out about 50 years ago. Its only through every single trick in the book these charlettons keep it alive.
I'm an atheist, in this debat I though Michael got his but kicked by Dinesh. The idea that 90% of the people on earth believe in god is disingenuous. Sure 90% believe in god yet they do not believe in the same god, or they believe that their version of god is more "correct" than another persons. Hence the fighting between religious groups... Religion does good and evil. The argument that is it one or the other is largely mute..
It kinda makes me sick how the Hindu guy played down the crimes of christianity, than exaggerated atheist stuff. Buy the way slavery was verified by christianity in america, along with genocide of native americans.Also slavery is very much alive and well in the world, just not in america anymore.
The thing about the spiritual people, what puts egg on thier face is that their ways didn't make much progress. Science put out that disease was due to germs, not Gods punishment. Vaccines work, prayers did not. Knowelage brought people up. Just plain spirituality kept people in the dark ages.
@xikesxikes Don't just make assertions. How is Dinesh blind? Particularly, the part about religious people helping strangers and that being against natural selection and the fact that in times of disaster and need the Christian nations respond the most is a fact.
@18:20 "...we will continue to remember those 6 million atheists..." Yes, well that was 30 million actually and 30 million more who don't go to church.
The moderator would do well to pay attention, if she's going to drop her two cents in.
if the bible is really divinely inspired, then god must have had a wake up call on what morality really is and that humans were actually equal and important to him. Jesus is the equivalent of a murderer pleading insanity, its not fair yet people actually approve of it. Jesus was Gods excuse so he could forgive himself for all the horrors and inhumane acts that were commited in his name. So again with de sousas argument of morality from god? really de sousa? you should read the old testament haha
the problem I have with desousa is that because he cannot explain the fine tuning and or anything else with real logical evidence. His evidence is that a deity created the earth in seven days, which was written by a MAN named moses, a primitive person who also was a murderer and also wrote messed up twisted non godly ways to treat your slaves quote exodus 20-21 And no the argument that it was a different time is exempt a man who wrote through god can write something as warped as this disturbing
@1FreeThinker1 I bet D'Souza would have a problem with the way you character his arguments. The fine tuning of the Universe was his argument not Shermers. Shermers failed to explain the fine tuning. And I've never heard D'Souza say that the earth was created in 7 days. It's funny to see atheist, who wanna be perceived as owning logic and reason, squeamishly shy away from science that supports a Deity and resort to mis-reading the bible to knock down their own straw man arguments.
@AlejandroSanchez3000 wow you are all over this video on the comment board huh you must be proud, anyway smart one regarding suza dosent have to tell me if he believes that the earth was created in seven days because I already know he does. how do I know? Well its really obvious what you just said is like telling somebody that a T.V is a living mammal. He is a creationist, better yet a christian, who belives in CREATION
@1FreeThinker1 Wow, what logic! (by the way, I'm glad to see your reading my posts) But the thing is, Dinesh believes in a Creator, but not The Creation Theory. How do I know? He says so in most of his debates. But it's like I said, you need these straw man arguments to shy away from a real scientific debate. And I admit all the time that I am a hypocrite. Just one more difference between Christians and Atheists.
@AlejandroSanchez3000 now if you want to debate the existence of a deity through science we can do that another day I dont have time today, the only reason that i commented was because of the quote "straw man argumets" that danesh was making, if you want to debate me let me know I love debating creation its insightful to hear others opinions, trust me im not just some bigot, I know my stuff I studied theology and was raised in a christian home knida like singer here so before you assume think!
@1FreeThinker1 Sorry if you feel that I hate you or even disrespect you, I don't. I'm friends with non-believers just like you; who probably have friends who are believers also. But you must know, not all, in fact most Christians don't believe in the 7 day Creation Theory. No harm if they do, but I don't and know of no one personally who does. I, like Dinesh, am Catholic and contrary to popular belief, in The Church remains room for science. Quit laughing it's true ;)
@AlejandroSanchez3000 do you belive in the metaphorical explanation for seven days, that god is outside of time therfore we can assume that each day represented a span of milions or even billions of years, well again theologians argue against this because in the original hebrew the word day was 24 hours. anyway its up to you what you want to believe, im not here to impose my atheism upon you, and yes I know not all believe in seven day creation, my step dad belives in what I said in the above
@1FreeThinker1 Well yes I believe that God is outside of time. But can I assume that you believe that the ancient Hebrews were trying to give a scientific account of how the world was created? The ancient Jews believed that the new day started at Sundown. But we read that the Sun wasn't created until the 3rd day of Creation. How can there be a day for the Hebrews with out the sun? Isn't it possible that the author meant the story metaphorically to show God's power? Or did he screw up from ch 1?
@AlejandroSanchez3000 well by that logic answer me this God made plants before he created the sun, scientifically the plants would die without the sun due to lack of nutirents and energy provided by the sun (general). There is a youtube user who can debate creationist arguments through science pretty well, his name is thunderfoot i have some of his videos on my page. You should check him out, unfortunatly im new to youtube but soon Ill start posting my own videos regarding science and religion
@1FreeThinker1 Yes this is precisely my point. I don't believe in the 7 Day Creation Theory. These are my arguments to my fundamentalist brothers/sisters who hold to The Story of Creation as a Scientific explanation. My view is that the Creation Story demonstrates God's power, not a scientific explanation. Ur a Good guy, I'll check back with you later. Peace.
@AlejandroSanchez3000 yeah thanks for this, it was great having a friendly debate, even though general but still a debate anyway thanks for your input see ya
@AlejandroSanchez3000 oh and dont worry Im not laughing at you, Ive heard many arguments regarding science being tied in with religion, im not new to this, but im also not going to attack you and generalize you im not new to debating, sorry about my repetitive ness just some people dont get it. Unlike aggressive atheists like richard dawkins I dont attack creatinoists, I only infer my opinion on what some one said in a negative way if I find it foolish, wow I feel so P.C right now haha
@AlejandroSanchez3000 also about theists quote "owning logic" thats bs I never said that you are generalizing, that's like saying all christians are hypocrites its not true but hell you damn sure seem to fit in that category, quote Matthew 5:44
But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, yet you are generalizing me in a box if you are a protestant christian you sir are a hypocrite.
@AlejandroSanchez3000 no i assume you dont because you are generalizing me and regarding Dinesh, how would I have known that he is not a creatinonist if he is defending christianity it only seemed logical. I respect your reasearch and I respect that you are not just another dumb creationist who tells me im going to go to hell, but unfortunatly I dont follow dinesh so I apologize but you are also ridiculing my logic which is another example of hate unless i mistinterpreted that let me know (:
also, he believes in Australia, but he really needed to pick an example that is unprovable, like he believes in the seas parted for moses.
Saying he believes in Australia like he believes in God is like saying I believe in America like I believe in God (I'm from Australia, never been to USA)
What a dishonest argument Dinesh puts forth, I'd say he is a crafty con man.
to Diesh D'Souza, your childish argument with big words is comical, subsidies are given to farmers because its needed to provide food and encourage growth in that area, big WRONG giving an example of how its not fair religion doesn't get exactly the same. Religion is a social club begging, bitting, stealing for power.
i like DINESH
tamaduni 5 days ago
“O my body, make of me always a man who questions!”
― Frantz Fanon ( THE SKEPTICS TOO)
tamaduni 5 days ago
Europeans went around the world wiping out millions of natives ,distorting history all in the name of science and religion ----although science hand religion have done good to human kind they also have been used as a rationale to commit atrocities
tamaduni 5 days ago
OH YOU CHRISTIAN IDIOTS !!!! YOUR FIRST BOOK WAS FLAWED !!! YOUR SECOND BOOK IS FLAWED !!!! AND NOW YOU TRY TO MIX RELIGION AND SCIENCE TOGETHER !!!! YOU ARE REAL PRIMITIVES !!!! YOU HAVE HELD THE WORLD BACK FOR CENTURIES !!! CHRISTIANITY OR ANY RELIGION IS A SET BACK TO ANY ADVANCEMENT OF THE HUMAN RACE !!!! AND RELIGION HAS ALWAYS BEEN ENFORCED BY VIOLENCE ITS STILL HAPPENING TODAY !!!!!! ITS A MONEY MAKER THATS WHAT THE ROMANS MADE IT !!! PEOPLE DONT NEED A GOD TO BE MORAL !!!!
RedBeretXXX 1 week ago
Haha, maybe I've been listening to Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens for too long but Micheal, you're so kind to your opponent :)
Wizzie0 1 week ago
Gahhhhh! MY BRAIN :(
stuperug 1 week ago
michael shermer is great, particularly in his articulation. If only he had more conviction
AnonjJohn 1 week ago
23:00 "In evolutionary terms we should help people who share our genes." But we should also help people who will return the favor when we need help, or if it will make us look good so that people will help us. And, all humans and even all life share most of the same genes, so of course we want to help other living things.
shardbearer 2 weeks ago
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YoungOffenderENT 2 weeks ago
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TwistedMind6969 3 weeks ago
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fhab525 4 weeks ago
It doesn't matter whether deities exist or not; what matters is how we approach the opinions of others. Each of us MUST be respectful and tolerant of ideas expressed by other people, or violence will erupt, as it has around the Great God debate. This violence will destroy us along with our ideas and values, so we must not allow our beliefs to influence our actions. After all, beliefs exist in our minds, not the enviroment. Therefore, we should not let our beliefs govern our actions.
AntiTroll101 1 month ago
Shermer makes too many jokes, then again his comedic answer "yes" to the question of the debate is the most profound point made by either speaker.
thisismyfunnyname 1 month ago
I hate this Dinesh guy. He paints such a rosy picture of Christianity by implying for instance that Hell must be divinely ordained because why would some people want to control other people's behavior? He made it like that had never occurred to him.
I also dislike Michael. His arguments are weak and he avoids attacking religion directly while letting Dinesh trample all over him.
karmacop911 1 month ago
When I invade your home, rape your wife, slaughter your children, cut your balls off, shove them down your throat and slit your neck till you bleed and choke to death, all because you're a Christian, THEN you'll face a new and aggressive atheism.
Someone on stage calling you a moron is not aggressive. Slaughtering entire villages because they worship the wrong God is aggressive. Shooting abortion doctors in the head is aggressive. Flying planes into buildings is aggressive.
imperator332 2 months ago 2
@ROdimusprime1987 Also, only in this small time period is it habitable for humans.
MrRobFour 2 months ago
D'Souza got it backwards. After the Big Bang all the physical laws of the universe immediately appeared and stabilized within a fraction of a second. The parameters were set at that point, and life as we know it evolved within those physical "rules". If the physical laws had been different, then a different sort of life, based on these different parameters, would have come into being. It's ridiculous to claim "We are the ultimate goal, so the physical laws of the universe were set to create us."
comingatchu 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Please visit my channel for the unpopular truth about homosexuality.
A person does not need hatred or any kind of phobia in order to acknowledge important differences between heterosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption and homosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption. Even non-religious people know this.
Homosexual activists, with support from the media, have succeeded at framing themselves as noble victims; it's an effective way to push a social agenda.
lightandbeautiful 3 months ago
god is not real...even if he is he does not care about us...love life trust in yourself..dont worry about a god that dont answer us or help us....
nibletxxx 3 months ago 6
amen to that brother
perfectbark 2 months ago
@nibletxxx No, we must believe in established values and principles if they have rational basis. We must not create our own values, as this will result in conflict and destruction when other people with different values learn of them. If you live by the values that you create, conflict will erupt. You must decide what is rational and what is not, and them choose what is rational to follow. You have power in what you choose to believe; you can't create what you want to believe.
AntiTroll101 1 month ago
@AntiTroll101 Sorry,I disagree..Saying we must believe in established vaiues is the same is saying we must be brainwashed..As far conflict with others that will happen every time someone disagrees with you and people create what they want to believe everyday...
nibletxxx 1 month ago
@nibletxxx TYPO: values not "vaiues"..
nibletxxx 2 weeks ago
Human sacrifice was moral for the Mexica 600 years ago, raping little boys was moral in ancient Greece, killing people who don't belong to your group is moral even now. Lying is moral when it has a purpose, and the list goes on, morality is cultural, I hate it when people assume morality is universal. The world would be very different if it were.
snakeblob 3 months ago
religion is not a problem, nor are the people, but the violent and evil people who USE the religion and change the whole context of it to justify their acts.
misternipples100 3 months ago
@misternipples100 Umm actually it's both the people and the religion. Religions are set of beliefs that people use to mold how they behave. So having beliefs built on fiction is a very large problem. The people who recruit others into a nonsensical thing like a religion are spreading bad ideas to more people. Depends on what religion would context come into play about anything. Religions are things people pull out of their ass, most often for control and actions based on god/book told them so.
mistereveready 3 months ago
@misternipples100 the are able to use religion for evil, because the religion does endorse evil things (read the bible for example... see what "God" gives his thumbs up for... slavery, human sacrifice, genocide, rape, murder, hate/racism... etc etc)... People then use that part of religion to further their aims. But the thing is... it is in their religion! If it didn't exist then they couldn't use it!
slavj 3 months ago
No genes in common?! All HUMANS HAVE AT LEAST 99% Genes in common!
Th3Sh1n1gam1 4 months ago
dinesh u stupid MF!!!
QuarterHater9 4 months ago
What a shitty format for a debate. What meaningful thing can someone say in 1 minute? Stupid.
OshiSeven 4 months ago
@ROdimusprime1987 Perfectly designed, huh? So that's why we wear space suits in space, because it's perfectly designed and we don't need to worry about solar radiation or lack of breathable air. Heck, you can take someone and drop them anywhere on the planet at random and 2/3 times you'll drop them in an ocean and they'll die within a day. The Universe is constantly trying to kill us.
OshiSeven 4 months ago
"we are facing a new and aggressive atheism" Well, then stop insulting people's intelligence with bullshit arguments, Dinesh.
TomFynn 4 months ago 15
Go God
parkourisfun90 4 months ago
i just realised how long this video is
ultimocricfan 4 months ago
Hey, Beavis, it says "Gaylord".
bdghkptwj 5 months ago
Theism is the most bullshit way of believing of all time
MrPurpose79 5 months ago 2
Regardless of belief, i think there's nothing wrong with theism or atheism or whatever else, as long as you're not "forcing" their beliefs on people... I think for a long time theism has been used by the church to secure other goals not necessarily those of good will, and this is why i believe atheism is on the rise. however atheism has been getting a little too agressive as of lately also. in the end if people would keep things to themselves we wouldnt have any of this... (continued)
ncdangale112 3 months ago
(continued)... Furthermore, the only way to escape this it seems is to ignore people, and taht's not good IMO, because i like diversity and i would love to hear other people's opinions if they weren't trying to friggn shout in my ear telling me what to do!!! So c'mon ppl, a little more matureness if you will, a little less hate... a little more love, tahts what its about. (continued)...
ncdangale112 3 months ago
(continued) ... So, if you believe in "something" because it fills your gap in your life, so be it, if you dont because you feel better that way, so be it, but dont try imposing or proving your thoguhts to people... cause no one has the truth...and tehre will always be someone against what you say... just my humble opinion, hoping you will all be a little nicer now :)
ncdangale112 3 months ago
Why can't Dinesh realize that religion is being a slave to scripture it doesn't matter how much better one religion is to the other.
MrPurpose79 5 months ago
Darth Vader: "Is Religion a FORCE for Good or Evil in the World?..what a dull question... it should be: -Do you believe in Force?-"
dfdtdfdx 5 months ago
It's funny hearing how Dinesh D'Souza argues that any rabbit that would believe in an afterlife would be eaten alive, yet fails to realize the implications of the very same argument, when it comes to his faith.
theminztrel 5 months ago
LOL @ "in the name of atheism"
Ignorance is amazing!
dvholston 5 months ago
Maybe a better question to debate would be 'What could we live without more: Faith or Technology?' If we lost %100 faith - there would be a humanity that would survive, I would argue, for the better. But what about technology? If we had EVERYTHING erased overnight WE had designed, ploughs to iphones, life for HUMANS would cease within years. Animals would continue in an island evolution - same as the %99.9999999999 of the time before 'gods children' were around. Design? Faith starts with F.A.
MrDespo3 6 months ago
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MrDespo3 6 months ago
These pro-christian, weird, non-arguments are temporal and stupid. D'souza for example, cites 'western' charitable morality as a non-evolutionary, god-given altruism, which via some osmosis from christian/catholic implanted belief, puts the West in a more giving, sympathetic position. This is prepostorous - it is because of television and social and fiscal conditioning! I HATE god - and give plenty of empathy & donations where possible so.... D'souza confuses transcendence with the word god.
MrDespo3 6 months ago
D'souza confuses history with morality, uses poor analogies with insipid, fabled endings - (a boyfriend working out whether he to marry as a metaphor for not 'knowing in advance' about the afterlife?) - His negative phrasing smacks of a psychic charlatan and if this is the finest breed of christian theologist being wielded in the world then us non-theist/human/rational PEOPLE of the world can maybe relax a bit more. I commend Christopher Hitchens, Shermer et al for the shallow but noble fight.
MrDespo3 6 months ago
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MrDespo3 6 months ago
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MrDespo3 6 months ago
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MrDespo3 6 months ago
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MrDespo3 6 months ago
D'Souza's obsession with Athens and Jerusalem 100% shaping our society is completely wrong! Of course they influenced the way we live today, but if Jerusalem hadn't existed, then of course our society would be recognisable! And also, the Christian 'al qaeda'? Look no further that Northern Ireland...
jezzaw101 6 months ago
This Dinesh guy is really off his rocker, thank God for people like Michael Shermer......No pun intended ;)
theBartone9119 6 months ago
It actually worries me more that intelligent adults actually believe in good and evil.
Good and evil are bullshit artificial concepts. Religion is also another bullshit artificial concept. What does proving one bullshit concept to be one of the two other bullshit concept do? Nothing!
Good and evil is just acceptable behaviors in society, or whatever people make up.
Of course it does make entertaining video. I watched the whole thing, and was fun.
Neosaigo 6 months ago
@Neosaigo Prove anything you just said. Good and evil are a reality in the world, and many human behaviorist experts and sociology majors have written essays on the subject of human evil and good. Because good and evil are a fabric of the structure of religion does *NOT* man religion invented it. Have you ever considered that it's not society that determines right and wrong, but right and wrong that determines society?
ColibriAnna08 6 months ago
I like how he argues that democracy is hacing the best lobbyists... wtf?
LasseChristensenOfDK 6 months ago
Poor Dinesh.
111E982a 7 months ago
The USA, is one of the most religious, countries in the world. When a natural disaster any were in the world, The USA is always one of the countries, alongside most muslim countries, that donate the least. Scandinavian countries is among the least religious countries in the world, but they are the ones that donate the most. Is that because, religious people are stingy? Or is it just religious peoples, way of following the bible?
Religion=Communism , Nazism and Dictatorship.
MrMaika77 7 months ago
@MrMaika77 please don't insult communism with religion.
111E982a 7 months ago
@MrMaika77 I agree.
Gamer1990100 7 months ago
@MrMaika77 Prove anything you just said. The USA donates the least? Provide figures and facts. Any time there is a disaster in the world (like Haiti and Japan) American soldiers are there. 65% of charities are religion. Major USA charities that are religious include St. Jude, The Salvation Army, and Compassion International. Seriously. You are ignorant.
ColibriAnna08 6 months ago
"When i give up my seat to an old lady, I'm not doing it because she'll give up her seat to me next week"... no... but you're doing out of a case of both empathy for her elderly condition and out because when you get to her age, you would like someone to do that for you.
NotSoGrimProductions 7 months ago
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ColibriAnna08 6 months ago
@NotSoGrimProductions That's absurd. Your argument amounts to nothing more than assuming you know the intentions of every human being who does good. In fact, I have opened doors for elderly people and not once did reciprocation to me as an elderly person come to mind. Why do people donate money, anonymously, to people who are poor and in who's situation they'll never be in? Reciprocation is not a factor if the person would never need the reciprocation, is it?
ColibriAnna08 6 months ago
@ColibriAnna08 - I said that was reciprocation was one reason, the other being empathy, which is true. I never intended to come across that i knew the motives to the good people do, i was just responding to Dinesh's comments that rociprocation doesn't play any part, which of course it does, in a direct way of someone doing the same for you, or on a personal way, where you feel good because of what you've done or have generated some positive karma for yourself (or whatever you wish to call it)
NotSoGrimProductions 6 months ago
@NotSoGrimProductions Does it exist beyond the ability of your comprehension that some people do good things, often at their own inconvenience, and truly want or need no reciprocation? When I was 17, I sponsored a child in the Philippines even though I was poor with two waitress jobs. Do you not realize sometimes people, like Danny Thomas who founded St. Jude, do good BECAUSE they've had good kharma in their life, not for it? Yes, sometimes, feeling good or reciprocation are not a factor.
ColibriAnna08 6 months ago
I have the urge to stop the video every 30 seconds when Dinesh is talking to "face-palm" and point out why even the most basic things he says are wrong. That he says our modern day morals come through christianity... thanks but if I wanted morality, the Bible is the last place I'd go to get it. "Thall shalt not kill... unless they're a different culture or religion... then it's a holy war or ur doing the Lord's work."
NotSoGrimProductions 7 months ago
@NotSoGrimProductions
I know, I'm struggling to watch the lack of sophistication Dinesh displays. He actually makes the claim that the value of life etc comes from Christianity, which is preposterous. We had about 1500 years of Christianity where human life was worth exceedingly little, then at around 1700 the Enlightenment kicked in and with it a wave of humanism. The wave of humanism (a secular concept) brought forth modern values of human life. You'd think an educated man would know this.
Geebsee 7 months ago
The question about morality without religion? I live in Estonia, the least religious country in the world, and we don't go around killing and raping each other. We give money to the red cross and donate blood and help the ones in need just like people in any normal country. Western culture just does not need religion in the twenty first century, it's just blocking the way of science and further development of the global society.
naljavennas 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Did anyone else notice that at 18:11, the hostess mistakenly referred to the SIX million atheists in America, as opposed to the actual figure of THIRTY million?
lakitooo 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@lakitooo America only has 3 million citizens. How can 30 million live in a country where there are only 3 million people?
ColibriAnna08 6 months ago
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lakitooo 7 months ago
"In the name of atheism." ummm, bro...
drealgrin 7 months ago
LOLS Dinesh says he has no genes in common with a guy who's not related with him
jnkwarior 8 months ago
I got maybe 5 min into Dinesh's first statements....And I found that absolutely everything he said was wrong. "man was born in gods image, which gives him divine ability to see what is inherently right." but the romans didnt have this??? so which is it buddy????????
TheHouse83 8 months ago
D'Souza is a slime. For example Shirmer clearly stated how it would be true that individuals would need to be truly moral and this would explain why we would do things for which we would never benefit and THEN D'Souza completely ignores this claim and argues a different point!!! As is usual, the atheist argues in a more moral manner.
drstrangelove09 8 months ago
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ColibriAnna08 6 months ago
@drstrangelove09 Shrimer's point is absurd because it is based solely on the highly presumptuous claim that every moral person does good for this reason, and it excludes the fact that many religious people donate money anonymously and not for recognition.
ColibriAnna08 6 months ago
@ColibriAnna08 Shermer makes this man look absurd to be honest. The people who donate anonymously are just religious people that take The Bible literally. Dinesh also tries to claim that Atheism has caused more deaths than religion, which is the main reason why he is insane/delusional.
theBartone9119 6 months ago
@theBartone9119 "The people who donate anonymously are just religious people take the Bible literally." Aaand? Because they are fundamentalists, why does that discredit their selfless efforts in any way? When will atheists accept that religious people do a damn lot of good in this world through charity? It's like atheists want to deny everything that sets religion in a good light at all. The world isn't black-and-white. There is good to all things as there is bad.
ColibriAnna08 6 months ago
@ColibriAnna08 I can tell from rereading my comment that my main point was not the exact details of the argument (which is what you seem to be addressing) but instead the dishonest methods of debate used by D'Souza... when there is a good point that he probably has no answer for he does what a politician does, changes the point. I see this all the time when talking to the religious. Religious supporters should adhere to ethical debating practices. Isn't ethical behavior their whole shtick?
drstrangelove09 6 months ago
@drstrangelove09 You're judgement of him makes no sense. If D'Souza has no answer, then what is he supposed to do? Don't be so high-and-mighty. After all, I don't see that he changed the subject. What Shrimer said bordered on reciprocal altruism and that is exactly was D'Souza addressed in response to him.
ColibriAnna08 6 months ago
@ColibriAnna08 When a person doesn't have an answer to a good point that means the other person is correct, so what should be done in that case is to admit that the other person is correct. That is the moral thing to do. To do otherwise is to be a slime, hence my point. Also, what's true is true, it has nothing to do with being high and mighty and by the way, speaking of high and mighty, I get a huge "high and mighty" vibe coming from D'Souza, don't you? Why defend DSouza if that bothers you?
drstrangelove09 6 months ago
@drstrangelove09 Or, could it mean that D'Souza didn't have an immediate response and would need time to consider it? Or, could it mean that D'Souza is just incapable of answering as his own fault, not necessarily because Shermer is right? Of course, you don't consider that. I disproved Shermer's statement already, so no he is not correct. Yes, by calling D'Souza a slime and personally attacking him you are being self-righteous and unfair.
ColibriAnna08 6 months ago
@ColibriAnna08 OK, let's say he had no response, then if it were you or I, if it was a reasonable person, he would admit that, not simply change the subject, he would say: "Good point, I have no response to that, you could be correct, I will think about it." And this was not an isolated incident. D'Souza is not behaving in a moral manner in these debates. I find that extremely ironic given that they are discussing morality. I do not see how you can support such a person.
drstrangelove09 6 months ago
@drstrangelove09 I now understand what you mean. A reasonable person would do that. But he did talk about reciprocal altruism and that's exactly what Shermer's analogy was. He didn't ignore it entirely. But I stress that you stop putting D'Souza on trial and judging his entire character by a Youtube video.
ColibriAnna08 6 months ago
@ColibriAnna08 On the question of whether or not you have answered the point,I can not say.I have forgotten the exact point that was being made. I wish that I had included a timestamp so I can review it without listening to the entire thing. I suspect that Shermer was correct.I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and listen again so that I can respond.As to whether I'm being harsh or not, I think it is quite obvious that D'Souza is a slime.I listened to him many times, I calls 'em as I sees 'em.
drstrangelove09 6 months ago
@ColibriAnna08 OK, I listened to it again, Shermer's response that I was referring to starts at 24:30. So Shermer makes the point that "only works if you actually are a moral person". I do not see the flaw in this. I do not think that is absurd or presumptuous. I do not see why you mention the issue of whether donations are anonymous or not since Shermer is making the point that the result will a truly moral person. And having watched it again my opinion of D'Souza's response is reinforced.
drstrangelove09 6 months ago
Everybody is talking about how Dinesh is distorting the facts can anybody give me at least 3 things Dinesh said that were factually incorrect?
JohnLions 8 months ago
@JohnLions He distorts facts and vocabulary. Aggressive atheism, new atheism, islamic radicalism, "science too is based on a certain kind of a faith" etc. Inquisition killed 2000 people in 350 years - not true and distorted. the question should be what the population was, what the percentage of people was killed, what sources said it etc. Atheist regimes? Mao, Stalin, Hitler etc. deeply believed in ideologies. etc. I recommend you to study yourself. For the beginning wikipedia is not so bad.
Wyga23 8 months ago
@Wyga23 Haha the backwards logic of your argument in your response to JohnLions comment makes me want to believe that wikipedia did not only start your research but also end it
jnkwarior 8 months ago
@JohnLions everything...
TheHouse83 8 months ago
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JohnLions 8 months ago
Universe is a chaotic system.. Everything is governed by physical laws, although to us unpredictable, it still follows a logical order of events. Everything that has happened and will happen has already been decided by the exact way the BIG-BANG happened. If the big bang had happened in a just minutely different way, bcoz of butterfly effect, a completely different set of events would of occurred and this world wud have been a different place altogether. This is scientific explanation of FATE.
kesav1985 8 months ago
Religion & Politics are synonymous. This is where they got their idea for "church." call it sectarianism (religion). It's mammon worship. Hebrews 9: 11—12 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building (creation); Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
SwordofSpirit1 8 months ago
Oh wow Dinesh has to know he's full of shit here, he's been in too many debates to really think his arguments are intellectually sufficient. They may be sufficient for some but not for the discussion itself. I know that if even I were to sit down and talk with Dinesh he'd concede a lot more than where he goes with his arguments here. That's what sucks about public debates, anyone can pander to the lowest common denominator (which is usually religious and the majority, more or less).
RussianAssassin21 8 months ago
Who designed the Maxima, Henry Ford.
johneamer 9 months ago
35:30 "Michael is making an equal leap of faith to not believe." What a ridiculous claim. So Dinesh, the people who believe in Horoscopes, or Krishna are making a leap of faith and you are making an equal leap of faith to not believe?
The only time a leap of faith is required is when there is a lack of evidence, then non belief requires no faith and no leaping whatsover.
Botie2 9 months ago
Dinesh's "Nissan" argument makes no sense. His hypothetical "If the Japanese guy designed the Nissan, then who designed the Japanese guy?" would mean that Shermer takes the position of dismissing the existence of the Japanese guy. His response to Shermer's dismissal of intelligent design dismisses intelligent design one step further.
merykwalker 9 months ago
I found so many things wrong with what Dinesh D`Souza was saying....
madder66mortem 9 months ago
Wayy to quiet
treasuredroperX 9 months ago
It is funny how all comments here are made by atheists, religious people just don't give a shit. I wish they were more like Dinesh and at least knew enough about their religion to be able to have an intelligent conversation with them. Yes, he's wrong but hey, he's someone you can at least have a nice conversation with.
rayomundo28 9 months ago 8
@rayomundo28
I'd rather people weren't like Dinesh, I'd rather that people be honest, I don't like having conversations with dishonest people who misrepresent my views and then try to berate the man made of straw. It doesn't matter how intelligent the man is, he lacks honesty. It seems you've been living under a rock, deists, agnostics and atheists tend to know more about religions on average, compared to the religious.
DesiFreethinkers 8 months ago
@rayomundo28 I wouldn't go so far as to say intelligent conversation. Dinesh doesn't strike me as knowledgeable at all. I lost count of all the fallacies he has committed so far, and I'm only halfway through the video. But this is just me nitpicking. I do get your point, and furthermore, I agree wholeheartedly with you.
theminztrel 5 months ago
wasted 1 and half hrs of my life. now i understand why Richard Dawkins doesn't debate creationists
TheKingShakaZulu 9 months ago
it is the moderates in religion who give the extremists their platform. This absurd notion that religion is to be excluded from any real dialogue or critique is absurd. Religion is fantasy. How significant it is is a measure of just that; how important and central mind/imagination is to the human experience.
winston2015 10 months ago
I dont know how much common sense Shermer can possibly have either..hhe's supposed to be a skeptic? and yet believes & defends the official 911 story despite the literal mountain of facts that reveal the use of explosives in the destruction of wtc 1,2&7. Even the work of David Chandler and Jonathon Cole has proved beyond any shadow of a doubt that despite how incredible it may seem to the casual observer that those buildings had to have been blown u with pre-planted explosives. LOOK for yourself
winston2015 10 months ago
@winston2015
The evidence is ridiculously poor. The claims, of buildings falling at free fall speed, amongst many others were also false.
DesiFreethinkers 8 months ago
Shermer should have just when bananas on D'Souza. D'Souza just kept resorting to rhetoric and irrelevant analogies.
ANTHATESYOMAMA 10 months ago
Science is never founded on faith. Religion and Science are enemies, not friends.
Religion has and always will be a weapon of mass destruction and manipulation.
RawpowerGroudon 10 months ago
I can't watch this shit any more. SUPER FUCK YOUR GOD!
SuperFuckyourgod 10 months ago 3
D'Souza is so full of shit his eyes are brown.
SuperFuckyourgod 10 months ago 3
GOD is perfection. religion is not. GOD is good. religion is not. GOD has no limits. religion does. GOD loves everyone. religion does not. GOD is unconditional. religion is conditional. GOD doesnt use fear tactics. religion uses fear. GOD isnt manmade. religion is manmade. GOD IS FOREVER...RELIGION IS NOT. GOD WILL NOT DIE. RELIGION WILL.
dorianstark1970 10 months ago
@dorianstark1970 Please take your medication.
ozzfest72 10 months ago
@ozzfest72 if medication is TRUTH, i already have. i suggest you take some.
dorianstark1970 10 months ago
Dinesh is all about attacking... In other words: a douche.
If God exists, I guarantee you he would rather hang out with Michael.
MrRationalThink 10 months ago 2
@Xikesxikes, I believe he was softer on Dinesh because Shermer was in very obviously hostile territory for his message. He knew he wouldn't convince anyone to become an atheist, and his stronger arguments would be lost on them, so he simply tried to make the point that atheists are not baby eaters or amoral satanists. I think he represented us very well to the religious side as a rational, respectful adult who can have an argument without turning it personal.
LithAmoniel 10 months ago
leaders killed because they didn't believe in god? Rah, Thor, Mithra, Allah, Jehova which god did polpot Not believe in?
FUwogs 10 months ago
I'm all good. I am very nice. But I really, REALLY want to punch the shit out of dinesh. Just to restore sanity. It'd be fun. Fuckin punch punch punch.
screenflicker1 10 months ago
WTF? Did she say that they will continue to remember the 6 million American atheists? That's cool and all, but she has already left out 54 million other American atheists...
SpiaggiaVita 10 months ago
I'm pretty sure Stalin wasn't in it for the atheism, just for the power and "glory". But hey, "God" made Stalin and his troopers pillage their own nation of millions of people, amirite?
jaymaster007 10 months ago
I love the christians opening arguement about how an athiet must take apon faith that the universe is rational. Very very clever... and wrong. The only things the athiest must take on faith is this: "The information relayed to me by me senses reflect the state of the world around me", "My memories contain information about events that actualy occored"
All else follows
Felhaven 10 months ago
"I don't have any genes in common with that guy" This isn't the first Christian I've seen suggest such a thing. Wow, they sure are dark underneath the cover.
adam1026 10 months ago
I think the rebuttal to "Can you be good without God?" in response to Dinesh could have been "Well, Dinesh you said that Christianity is a source of good that unbelievers are not aware of. Ok, but that doesn't indicate there is a god behind it considering the possibility that Christianity is just a man-made creation; then that further supports the idea that good can exist without God". Dinesh's argument basically didn't require God to exist, only the principles of Christianity.
mclordhelmet 10 months ago
Yes. Religion is the most wretched & evil pack of lies & witchcraft ever let loose in the world. The worst are the fiendish, imperialistic cults of the Bible & Koran. Evil apocalyptic madness meant only to serve those with political & economic power.
Men & and women are born essentially good creatures who are made evil by the witches of Judaism, Christianity & Islam. Religion seeks to divide people against one another, to the benefit of shamanistic ghouls.
Religion is poison.
TheColonelKlink 10 months ago 18
@TheColonelKlink
You may say people are born essentially good, but my own testimony differs. I am not a good person, and I never have been, by any definition of good that is somewhat reasonable.
v01741r31 6 months ago
@v01741r31
Are you bragging or complaining?
TheColonelKlink 6 months ago
@TheColonelKlink
Disputing
v01741r31 6 months ago
@v01741r31
You must be a modern day Republican then in the image of a piece of human garbage like Newt Gingrich and the rest the these crazy dominionists in the GOP.
perfectbark 2 months ago
@perfectbark
Not THAT bad... haha.
v01741r31 1 month ago
"Athiests have killed ten or hundreds of millions" LOL ....
Umm, no....
jgoodz420 10 months ago
Killed people "in the name of atheism" MY ASS!
People kill people because they don't believe in gods the same way they cull horses because they don't believe in the Avenging Unicorn.
How stupid do you have to be to think that people act based on things they don't believe in? People only ever act based on what they believe and want, whether it's power, paranoia, etc.
KachuaOnWoW 10 months ago
@KachuaOnWoW
lol no doubt...An atheist would never harm anyone over religion, many atheists are turned atheist due to the violence and puerile antics of religion itself...They would never embrace that, that would completely defeat the purpose of atheism LOL
jgoodz420 10 months ago
D'Souza come off like some sort of christian apologist. Christians loved slavery in America. 6000 people killed in the Spanish Inquisition ? Wow this guy is really blocking out reality. Ask a native american how much christians value human rights. Oh, that's right , there All dead. Christians are all good, everything else is has killed millions. D'Souza is the Rush Limbaugh of religion.
flubno 10 months ago
I would have thought this was a pointless question. Just turn on the news and you can see the answer for yourself. Lets stop fucking around with religious people, lets brand them as the mentally deluded arrogant power hungry retrobates they are. Relgious faith should have died out about 50 years ago. Its only through every single trick in the book these charlettons keep it alive.
myironlungca 10 months ago 2
I'm an atheist, in this debat I though Michael got his but kicked by Dinesh. The idea that 90% of the people on earth believe in god is disingenuous. Sure 90% believe in god yet they do not believe in the same god, or they believe that their version of god is more "correct" than another persons. Hence the fighting between religious groups... Religion does good and evil. The argument that is it one or the other is largely mute..
gyrofxza 10 months ago
It kinda makes me sick how the Hindu guy played down the crimes of christianity, than exaggerated atheist stuff. Buy the way slavery was verified by christianity in america, along with genocide of native americans.Also slavery is very much alive and well in the world, just not in america anymore.
flubno 10 months ago
The thing about the spiritual people, what puts egg on thier face is that their ways didn't make much progress. Science put out that disease was due to germs, not Gods punishment. Vaccines work, prayers did not. Knowelage brought people up. Just plain spirituality kept people in the dark ages.
flubno 10 months ago
This just stupid. Dinesh D'Souza is blind. Michael Shermer is too soft on him.
xikesxikes 10 months ago 30
@xikesxikes
sam harris should have been in mike's place. yes, MS was too soft on him.
jakepinoywolrd85 10 months ago
@xikesxikes Don't just make assertions. How is Dinesh blind? Particularly, the part about religious people helping strangers and that being against natural selection and the fact that in times of disaster and need the Christian nations respond the most is a fact.
ColibriAnna08 6 months ago
What a complete ripoff of the four-way debate on the exact same topic from the BBC. Only it contained vastly more well known and well-versed people.
GeneralZhadow 10 months ago
GAYLORD AAAAAAAAHHHAHAHAHA
akaast 10 months ago 13
@akaast gaylord is a name
carnifex714 10 months ago
@carnifex714 AND AN UNFORTUNATE ONE AT THAT HAHAHHAA
akaast 10 months ago
@akaast And I think they spelt Oprahland wrong.
Botie2 9 months ago
Who's the moderator, anyone know?
quantumleap7219 10 months ago
@18:20 "...we will continue to remember those 6 million atheists..." Yes, well that was 30 million actually and 30 million more who don't go to church.
The moderator would do well to pay attention, if she's going to drop her two cents in.
AndreisEntaro 10 months ago
in the name of my non belief and non god i will kill you.
nocturnalsamurai1000 10 months ago
if the bible is really divinely inspired, then god must have had a wake up call on what morality really is and that humans were actually equal and important to him. Jesus is the equivalent of a murderer pleading insanity, its not fair yet people actually approve of it. Jesus was Gods excuse so he could forgive himself for all the horrors and inhumane acts that were commited in his name. So again with de sousas argument of morality from god? really de sousa? you should read the old testament haha
1FreeThinker1 10 months ago
the problem I have with desousa is that because he cannot explain the fine tuning and or anything else with real logical evidence. His evidence is that a deity created the earth in seven days, which was written by a MAN named moses, a primitive person who also was a murderer and also wrote messed up twisted non godly ways to treat your slaves quote exodus 20-21 And no the argument that it was a different time is exempt a man who wrote through god can write something as warped as this disturbing
1FreeThinker1 10 months ago
@1FreeThinker1 I bet D'Souza would have a problem with the way you character his arguments. The fine tuning of the Universe was his argument not Shermers. Shermers failed to explain the fine tuning. And I've never heard D'Souza say that the earth was created in 7 days. It's funny to see atheist, who wanna be perceived as owning logic and reason, squeamishly shy away from science that supports a Deity and resort to mis-reading the bible to knock down their own straw man arguments.
AlejandroSanchez3000 10 months ago
@AlejandroSanchez3000 wow you are all over this video on the comment board huh you must be proud, anyway smart one regarding suza dosent have to tell me if he believes that the earth was created in seven days because I already know he does. how do I know? Well its really obvious what you just said is like telling somebody that a T.V is a living mammal. He is a creationist, better yet a christian, who belives in CREATION
1FreeThinker1 10 months ago
@1FreeThinker1 Wow, what logic! (by the way, I'm glad to see your reading my posts) But the thing is, Dinesh believes in a Creator, but not The Creation Theory. How do I know? He says so in most of his debates. But it's like I said, you need these straw man arguments to shy away from a real scientific debate. And I admit all the time that I am a hypocrite. Just one more difference between Christians and Atheists.
AlejandroSanchez3000 10 months ago
@AlejandroSanchez3000 now if you want to debate the existence of a deity through science we can do that another day I dont have time today, the only reason that i commented was because of the quote "straw man argumets" that danesh was making, if you want to debate me let me know I love debating creation its insightful to hear others opinions, trust me im not just some bigot, I know my stuff I studied theology and was raised in a christian home knida like singer here so before you assume think!
1FreeThinker1 10 months ago
@1FreeThinker1 Sorry if you feel that I hate you or even disrespect you, I don't. I'm friends with non-believers just like you; who probably have friends who are believers also. But you must know, not all, in fact most Christians don't believe in the 7 day Creation Theory. No harm if they do, but I don't and know of no one personally who does. I, like Dinesh, am Catholic and contrary to popular belief, in The Church remains room for science. Quit laughing it's true ;)
AlejandroSanchez3000 10 months ago
Comment removed
AlejandroSanchez3000 10 months ago
@AlejandroSanchez3000 do you belive in the metaphorical explanation for seven days, that god is outside of time therfore we can assume that each day represented a span of milions or even billions of years, well again theologians argue against this because in the original hebrew the word day was 24 hours. anyway its up to you what you want to believe, im not here to impose my atheism upon you, and yes I know not all believe in seven day creation, my step dad belives in what I said in the above
1FreeThinker1 10 months ago
@1FreeThinker1 Well yes I believe that God is outside of time. But can I assume that you believe that the ancient Hebrews were trying to give a scientific account of how the world was created? The ancient Jews believed that the new day started at Sundown. But we read that the Sun wasn't created until the 3rd day of Creation. How can there be a day for the Hebrews with out the sun? Isn't it possible that the author meant the story metaphorically to show God's power? Or did he screw up from ch 1?
AlejandroSanchez3000 10 months ago
@AlejandroSanchez3000 well by that logic answer me this God made plants before he created the sun, scientifically the plants would die without the sun due to lack of nutirents and energy provided by the sun (general). There is a youtube user who can debate creationist arguments through science pretty well, his name is thunderfoot i have some of his videos on my page. You should check him out, unfortunatly im new to youtube but soon Ill start posting my own videos regarding science and religion
1FreeThinker1 10 months ago
@1FreeThinker1 Yes this is precisely my point. I don't believe in the 7 Day Creation Theory. These are my arguments to my fundamentalist brothers/sisters who hold to The Story of Creation as a Scientific explanation. My view is that the Creation Story demonstrates God's power, not a scientific explanation. Ur a Good guy, I'll check back with you later. Peace.
AlejandroSanchez3000 10 months ago
@AlejandroSanchez3000 yeah thanks for this, it was great having a friendly debate, even though general but still a debate anyway thanks for your input see ya
1FreeThinker1 10 months ago
@AlejandroSanchez3000 oh and dont worry Im not laughing at you, Ive heard many arguments regarding science being tied in with religion, im not new to this, but im also not going to attack you and generalize you im not new to debating, sorry about my repetitive ness just some people dont get it. Unlike aggressive atheists like richard dawkins I dont attack creatinoists, I only infer my opinion on what some one said in a negative way if I find it foolish, wow I feel so P.C right now haha
1FreeThinker1 10 months ago
@AlejandroSanchez3000 also about theists quote "owning logic" thats bs I never said that you are generalizing, that's like saying all christians are hypocrites its not true but hell you damn sure seem to fit in that category, quote Matthew 5:44
But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, yet you are generalizing me in a box if you are a protestant christian you sir are a hypocrite.
1FreeThinker1 10 months ago
@1FreeThinker1 But why do you assume I don't love you? Because I challenge your beliefs?
AlejandroSanchez3000 10 months ago
@AlejandroSanchez3000 no i assume you dont because you are generalizing me and regarding Dinesh, how would I have known that he is not a creatinonist if he is defending christianity it only seemed logical. I respect your reasearch and I respect that you are not just another dumb creationist who tells me im going to go to hell, but unfortunatly I dont follow dinesh so I apologize but you are also ridiculing my logic which is another example of hate unless i mistinterpreted that let me know (:
1FreeThinker1 10 months ago
@AlejandroSanchez3000 sorry for my typo i meant atheists for my last comment
1FreeThinker1 10 months ago
even tho im an athiest i have to thank christianity because without it metallica wouldnt have such fucking awesome music
travis18haney 10 months ago
also, he believes in Australia, but he really needed to pick an example that is unprovable, like he believes in the seas parted for moses.
Saying he believes in Australia like he believes in God is like saying I believe in America like I believe in God (I'm from Australia, never been to USA)
What a dishonest argument Dinesh puts forth, I'd say he is a crafty con man.
Pineconevolved 10 months ago
D'Souza is talking out of his arse. I was shaking my head for much of his opening.
Pinage 10 months ago
to Diesh D'Souza, your childish argument with big words is comical, subsidies are given to farmers because its needed to provide food and encourage growth in that area, big WRONG giving an example of how its not fair religion doesn't get exactly the same. Religion is a social club begging, bitting, stealing for power.
Pineconevolved 10 months ago
"a mountain of bodies ... in the name of Atheism" this guy is a complete jackass,and thats 11 mins into the debate.
Predator9710 10 months ago 3