Dive Detectives - Rogue Wave - Edmund Fitzgerald

[drail80s]

Paralizingly cold in the summer time? People surf Lake Superior in the wintertime

[nssd70m2]

Where can I watch the full length video?

[mywolf1]

@nssd70m2 You can see the total story on this site by typing in Wreck of the edmund fitzgerald. There is 15 parts. Hope this helps.

[NHLHockeyfreak]

@MiserableOldGarred Alot of people would take that comment and troll it :3

[driv1937]

I'm from Minnesota and I love listening to people who knew about the Edmund Fitzgerald up by Duluth. This is a story that should be shared with everybody. Please be respectful!

[erinnschrupp]

I think @Ituomela needs their own show to complain on - the issue of enough time on their hands has been settled. Anyways, I'm from Duluth, love the Fitz, and I think it horrendous for people to actually get inside the ship. Would you dive through 6 ft of dirt to enter a coffin? I say let the 29 souls rest, and just get used to the fact that we'll never know what happened that night.

[alnilam66]

I think some of that footage is fake. the fitzgerald is down to deep for divers

[Lao3Lang2]

@alnilam66 Haven't seen the program, but as a former diver, were they using mixed gas in their tanks? HeliOx, a mix of helium and oxygen, have been used for deep water dives. I'd also have to look up the exact location of the wreck to determine water depth. I recall some speculation that it may have run up on a shoal as it was passing through a wave trough. In this case, the water wouldn't have been too deep for regular air.

[QuadJ3]

@Lao3Lang2 About 530 feet.

[QuadJ3]

@alnilam66 Several people have free-dove the Fitz, beginning in the late 90s.

[Urbanhorsegirl]

Full video is available for download at itunes for about $3! I am downloading it as I type therefore haven't watched it yet, but very excited to see it.

[josh1303]

Anyone know where you can watch this episode?

[iraqvet80]

@ltuomela, also if a diver has access to a surface supplied system we typically go below 500 ft, I do what is called saturation diving where I live in a bell at depth so that I can continually dive without having to deco every time. There are plenty of ways to get to the Fitz if you want it bad enough.

[iraqvet80]

@ltuomela, I can't comment about the events that led to the fitz going down I'm not a historian but I am a commercial diver certified by the Commercial Dive Board of Canada and International Marine Contractors Assoc. I have dove to depths as deep as 420 ft on trimix. I don't recommend it but there are sport divers that have gone much deeper on trimix than that, divers like Sheck Exley and Nuno Gomes have reached 800 even 1000 ft.

[Kanefan701]

Is there any way you can find the full episode of this?

[ltuomela]

im truly amazed at how well some get influenced off of fucking T.V and bullshit out dated books..i mean..lol..its comical and aggravating..just unreal..i guess you folk believe the government dont lie either! yea whatever...im done on this link..just done...i thought i was quit clear,but i guess its above some of you thick folk..i can give ya concordance on travel the whole nine yards for Christ sakes..lol..wtf more do you people need the dead to rise and say yea he is right!..wow..

[ltuomela]

i tell you what you want the truth mail me..ill give you all the damn info you want. and i dont quit believe these guys dove to her in normal dive suites either,it took national geographic to dive to her in a state of the art NEWTSUIT,diving system on July 3rd of 95',and the very same mini subs used for the Titanic.you mean to tell me these guys dove all on their own? and its illegal to even try! it is a grave site! we had to have the Canadian and the U.S and the Navy and the family's permission

[ltuomela]

Morgan Clark, first mate of the Anderson, kept watching the Fitzgerald on the radar set to calculate her distance from some other vessels near Whitefish Point. He kept losing sight of the Fitzgerald on the radar from sea return, meaning that seas were so high they interfered with the radar reflection. First mate Clark spoke to the Fitzgerald one last time, about 7:10 pm:there more eye witness from my documents..now what...do the math from my last comment to the time this was said..its witness

[ltuomela]

that right there is just a small piece of my documents from Cooper..this show fails to mention this! so does many many other speculators...that is eye witness! this show lies or docent have the facts..prolly both..

[theoldgalah]

@ltuomela I have to admit I am intrigued with the whole tale of the Fitz and You seem to have a fair bit of info.Why don't you write a book on the subject?I have read many many books and regularly buy more on ebay

[ltuomela]

@theoldgalah its all a insult to Capt. McSorley,he sailed all his life,vents were checked on the list,which i have here, he had both pumps running and power set on full..at the time the Fitz. was the largest and sailed for 20 years at this point. its very naive to think she was over loaded after 20 years on her..naa..i have contributed to a new book T.V show that will clear all this B/S up. we have dove to her,we have many many photos of her that this show dont point out,i hate shows like this..

[ltuomela]

."Then the Anderson just raised up and shook herself off of all that water - barrooff - just like a big dog. Another wave just like the first one or bigger hit us again. I watched those two waves head down the lake towards the Fitzgerald, and I think those were the two that sent him under."

[ltuomela]

According to Captain Cooper, about 6:55 pm, he and the men in the Anderson's pilothouse felt a "bump", felt the ship lurch, and then turned to see a monstrous wave engulfing their entire vessel from astern. The wave worked its way along the deck, crashing on the back of the pilothouse, driving the bow of the Anderson down into the sea

[ltuomela]

what i dont get is this show is wrong! there was witnesses..this is as much bullshit as the Navy wanted to say!...fuckin people man..they seem to be more debunkers then truth seekers here..i just re-listened to this they are basically calling Captain Bernie Cooper a lie here..the man sailed for 50 years! wtf man..see its shows like this that put shit in peoples heads,hence: this dumb argument im in here..sheeeeeesh the Fitz was built in 58 of course they wouldn't build um like this no more..man

[Mortskcab]

My unlce is a sport diver, he says if someone has enough money and the right equipment they will reach the fitz, no matter if there is a ban on diving the wreck or not.

[ltuomela]

@Mortskcab its 550 deep down...i dunno man..need big money for that equipment took national geographic to dive to it..superior get 1350 feet deep..i live on it most of the year,i know exactly where she lies have it mapped on my GPS..its very visible..2 rogue's did take her,and there was witness as the ship in front got hit by the same 2 waves then it hit the Fiz. and lights out..exact words..75-100 footers..but can a ports diver get there...nope..not that deep...a pro yes,with big money..

[badgerattoadhall]

i want the rest

[64BBernard]

I've watched this program several times on the History channel (Canadian version) and from the video evidence I've seen I believe the show's theory of a rogue wave taking the Fitzgerald down is correct. From the show

:

1. The number one hatch cover is collapsed into the cargo hold.

2. The rudder is clearly shown to be deflected at least 15 deg to port.

3. The port-side pilot-house door is opened and reveals no damage to the dogs, indicating it was opened by hand and not by water pressure.

[ltuomela]

@64BBernard must a been a old show, cause there was witness, well just look what i said here prior..and i can prove it with radio contact, the last with the fiz..and contact with coast guard,and paper work from the captain in the ship infront..11 miles infact infront of her, and slowed down cause she was in trouble..anyway im right for sure..i have heard your theory and thats been laid to rest myfriend..

[theoldgalah]

@ltuomela Radio contact isn't a witness.A witness is someone who actually SEE's whats happening with their own eyes.No one saw the Fitz go down and thats a fact. but two ships saw the rogue waves.I think the Fitz was slowly filling up with water due to slight overloading and damaged vents.She would have been very low in the water already.The two massive waves just turned her into a submarine.Because she was longer than the lake is deep there nothing else explains the massive and rapid damage.

[ltuomela]

@theoldgalah the witness i have is the ship infront of her..lol..i have the facts i live here..i know as the ship infront warned the Fiz. you need to ahh check you facts there buddy..whewwwwwwww..what you say was the Official report in 77' thats way sense been debunked..i have documents..i just want the crew honored..im tellin ya what you say is way old news man..even the historical museum on whitefish bay take what i say,History channel has now taken it in,i dont watch T.V i was told they did..

[theoldgalah]

@ltuomela I look at it this way.

1 the plimsol line was high for that time of the year thus she would have rode low in the water carrying a greater load.

2 the Fitz had lost vent covers which allowed water into the hold and taconite absorbs alot of water so she would have just rode lower and lower without anyone really noticing especially in such a sea state.

3 the ship was severely damaged with one half twisted right over on itself

[ltuomela]

@theoldgalah 25 foot seas and better with high winds and currents will twist any ship..even the ocean liners did not wanna be out there that day! and that says alot..557 feet of water is plenty enough for many things to happen..keep a eye out for that history channel show..they will clear alot up i just talked to my buddy's at the museum in whitefish bay they said they done it justice..the reason im passionate about this cause the official report was B/S family's are pissed as well..

[theoldgalah]

@ltuomela and the fact that the sea depth at that point is less than her length means she wouldn't have had the time to casually roll over etc.Whatever happened happened fast ie those waves.no SOS no survivors.As for honoring the crew mate....i feel sorry for them but 1100 ships have gone down in the great lakes why not honour them all its not like the Fitz was the only ship to go down like that. which ship was in front that would have had eye contact with the Fitz? there wasn't any

[ltuomela]

@theoldgalah way more the 1100 buddy, thats just whitefish bay..we are finding more and more every year..weird stuff as alot we find are way off from where they were reported down..last one we found dated 1779! i couldn't imagine the no's let alone the natives that have been lost long before them...and yes we honor all of them..let me ask you this..have you dived to the fitz? have you ever been in whitefish bay? have you ever been on lake superior for months at a time? if not dont speculate..

[theoldgalah]

@ltuomela so which ship had "visual" of the Fitz? I'm not talking about radar because no one was actually looking at the radar screen right at the second the Fitz disappeared. I have been reading a lot of books about the great lakes and ship wrecks and I do think the rogues did finish her off but i also think that overloading and storm damage ie vent caps gone contributed.It was the companies fault they were even there in the first place.If she hadnt been riding so low in the first place????

[ltuomela]

@theoldgalah "the Anderson" Capt. Cooper and Capt. Ernest M. McSorley "the Fitz" decided to take the northerly course across Lake Superior, where they would be protected by highlands on the Canadian shore. This took them between Isle Royale and the Keweenaw Peninsula. they were aware of the storm coming across the plains and entering Mich. they were not over loaded they were full loaded her with 26,116 long tons of taconite pellets, made of processed iron ore.to say over loaded is a insult..

[theoldgalah]

@ltuomela when I said overloaded I mean for that time of the year.The plimsol line was raised for the good months of the year but should have been lowered.It had nothing to do with the captain.If the company wants the ship to carry more and the application is approved the ship carries more simple as that and consequently sits lower in the water.

[ltuomela]

@theoldgalah i mean a ship with eye sight is not enough for you,i dont know what is..the fish swimmin there?...Capt. cooper was forced to turn around and search,they were fine then BAM gone that quick..it is common sense and im tellin ya if you dont think superior gets rough, think again myfriend i sail her all year almost..i know these waters as good as anyone. my documents from the navy,the transcripts,the last radio contact,and the captain of the shit infront dont lie...bottomline..

[theoldgalah]

@ltuomela which ship had a visual on the Fitz.With a snow storm like that you wouldn't see 10 feet much less another ship miles away.

[ltuomela]

@theoldgalah i have said enough,you want more mail me..but what i have said should say your answers...its cut n dry...obviously you dont read to well..i told you and it was not snow by the way...sheeeeeeesh..tell ya what mister de-bunker believe what you want keep the b/s goin if that is what you care about..what i say is undivided truth!..re-read all i have written..if you still think im full of shit ill prove to you in "MAIL" as i said..but anyone who reads well can see what i say is fact

[ltuomela]

@theoldgalah i mean come onnnnnn..if i weren't right why would i keep on this,and obviously i have more facts then you,all you have is questions..feel me..one can check what i have said and see its truth..coast guard,navy even the damn Chippewa Indians were in on this for money support! for which we payed back with no help from any of ya!..just re-read all i have said and think about it in a none judgmental way...k..enough said..

[ltuomela]

@theoldgalah ohh one other thing Gordon Lightfoot changed his lyrics live now in that song,as he knows the truth now as well..just know what you speak of my friend..and honor the crew they were not at fault..

[Mortskcab]

@ShabogamoLakeRider Nothing else to do in my small town lol

[Mortskcab]

@ShabogamoLakeRider Newfoundland didnt join canada untill the 40's and they are an island... they have thier own culture and values.... they are diffrent from the rest of mainland canada so dont even use that argument

[Mortskcab]

Most crewmembers would have been in thier rooms or in the ship's galley when the ship sank. They would have been thrown from where they were at, and sent crashing against the aft bulkhead or against other objects. Many would have been seriously injured or even killed. All would have been disorientated and probably unable to gain thier footings.... no chance of escape....

[Mortskcab]

The last moments must have been terrifying. As the bow nosedived, the windows of the pilothouse would have exploded inward. a wall of water instantly filled the pilothouse and would have pushed the Captain, the 1st mate, the wheelsman, and anyone else in the pilothouse at the time, against the aft bulkhead, down the staircase, or out the rear windows.

[zequelll]

@Mortskcab

i agree. its apparent from the wreck footage that she hit hard, hard enough to crack the hull, and severely deform the superstructure, i wonder if that door was thrown open by the impact, you'd think if theyd had time to comprehend what was happening that they would of grabbed a lifejacket from the rack in the chart room. creepy thing is although the men in the pilothouse may of been blown out the stern is undoubtedly a coffin with near perfectly preserved bodies.

[ltuomela]

@zequelll yea thats more commonsense..2 rouge waves hit her, as the same 2 hit the ship infront and the radar went blank cause the waves were that big,they were already in 25 foot seas and words were "2 massive waves comin atcha"..well "massive" in 25 foot seas means massive! 75-100 footers hit her and they seen no more lights..they slowed down cause the fritz captain asked them to slow down,no distress call cause it did happen that fast..BAM sunk..in a matter of time the waves traveled,its fact

[Mortskcab]

@ShabogamoLakeRider I bet most of you only care about the Fitzgerald because of the song by Lightfoot..... My family has a history of sailing the lakes so we cared about the Fitz the day she went down.... my uncle was on his ship anchored in Duluth on that night....

[Mortskcab]

@DevynYoshi Then if you dont hate America, then tell your countrymen to stop booing our national anthem at your sporting events, or we will start booing yours!Montreal Canadien fans boo the star spangled banner every fucking time...

[bnodurft]

It doesn't look like they conducted a dive to the Edmund Fitzgerald. I don't think the Ontario Ministry of Culture has issued permits to dive to the Fitz since 1995. The longstanding rogue wave theory has been around since the Fitz sank. They showed Dennis Hale who is a survivor from the Daniel J. Morrell. Some of the video footage looks the footage from dives in 1994 and 1995 and some of the footage looks like it did not come from the Fitz.

[64BBernard]

@bnodurft

The show didn't conduct a dive to the Fitzgerald. They are using video from the 1995 dive. The interior scenes such as engine room are from the Daniel J. Morrell that they filmed for the show.

[sasktank]

the ship lies in Canadian waters

[Mortskcab]

@sasktank  by one mile.....

[bebeinpa]

@sasktank Actually, 1/3 of the wreckage lies in U.S. waters, by GPS standards.

[ac4tv]

A well-supported theory is that the ship went aground on the shoal by Cariboo Island. Has anyone looked for signs of damage or paint from the Fitz there? It's shallow enough to dive there.

[theoldgalah]

@ac4tv apparently there was no damage to the shoals that could be attributed to being struck by a ship.Though apparently the Fitz needed to go into dry dock to repair cracked steel gussets etc,The crew had noticed the ship had become more "flexible" that normal and the Plimsol line had been raised so she could "legally carry more. In effect she was overloaded and the company wanted her to do one more trip.The straw that broke the camels back.

[hod05]

were can you see the full episode?

[ESLinstructor1]

Are they actually using regular diving suits?  I would think that the pressure at that depth would be too much.

[theoldgalah]

@ESLinstructor1 probably breathing NOX or something.

[64BBernard]

They are actually diving onboard the Daniel J. Morrell and not the Fitzgerald. At 0:17 you see Dennis Hale who was the only survivor of the sinking of the Daniel J. Morrell.

[theoldgalah]

@64BBernard The Great lakes are full of metal coffins as are the oceans of the world.I can't imagine what it would be like to be on a sinking ship and don't want too either.It's a wonder that ships don't have emergency exits built into them or pods built into the sides of them........seems like a dangerous occupation too me.

[Mortskcab]

@DevynYoshi Hey its cool you guys like the fitz story too but I just find it odd since it had little connection with canada

[Mortskcab]

@eastofottawa And acorrding to South Park you cunucks have flaping heads. There are more of us americans than there are of you. Anyway, I'm just saying that I find it odd that you guys care so much even if Lightfoot is a cunuck (which i already knew). Its cool you guys love the story of the fitz too ... but i just find it strange.

[laurierken]

@Mortskcab And you take South Park as factual? Good God, man.

[NHLHockeyfreak]

@Mortskcab Hey, asshole. It sunk in OUR side of the lake. The captain was Canadian, and we do NOT have flapping heads. And we CANADIANS are the ONLY ones in the world that payed excellent tribute to it.. so we should be allowed to care.

[Mortskcab]

@NHLHockeyfreak I lost all respect for canada ever since montreal booed our national anthem before an NHL gamed after we invaded afghanistan. My cousin died in afghanistan fighting agianst evil terrorist, and stupid cracked assed cunucks boo our anthem because we inavaed the nation where the terriorst were?! You guys dont know how much that pissed us off. FUCK YOU

[NHLHockeyfreak]

@Mortskcab Go cry. You know how many times your teams boo OUR anthem? Exactly.

By the way, you guys wouldnt have even KNOWN about the Fitz if Gordon Lightfoot hadn't written that song about it. This proves that we care more about than you do, and BY THE WAY, Afghanistan did nothing. They didnt make 9/11 happen. No terrorists were there. You just went and slaughtered their people. And its CANUCKS, not "cunucks". Asshole.

[Mortskcab]

@NHLHockeyfreak And by the way the wreck is only within your nation's borders by a mere 3,000 feet. Come to Detriot Michigan every anniversary of the sinking and you'll see what nation cares about the wreck more.

[bebeinpa]

@NHLHockeyfreak Captain McSorley was born in upstate New York in Ogdensburg, not in Canada.

[NHLHockeyfreak]

@bebeinpa I read that he was canadian born.

[bebeinpa]

@NHLHockeyfreak Yeah, I read that too, once, but apparently, he was a New Yorker.

[NHLHockeyfreak]

@bebeinpa He was born in Canada, but was raised in New York.

[Mortskcab]

It just find it odd that you guys care.... I mean I wouldnt care about a German ship that sank in the gulf of mexico

[Mortskcab]

There were no canadians on the ship. They were our boys and she was our ship. So i'm wondering, why do you canadians even care?

[eastofottawa]

@Mortskcab maybe becuse it happened in Lake Superior, shared by the US and Canada? You might also know that the sinking was immortalized in Gordon Lightfoot's legendary song "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald". Gordon is Canadian. He even changed the lyrics recently to reflect the fact that the sinking was not caused by human error as initially widely reported.

Americans and Canadian are also pretty close culture-wise. You are our cousins. Americans do talk funny thought.

[laurierken]

@Mortskcab Check your facts. The Captain, McSorley, was a Canadian, and she lies inside the Canadian border.

[Mortskcab]

@laurierken he became American. He was sworn in and everything! He had a house in Toledo Ohio.

[Mortskcab]

I do agree with this documentary that a Rouge wave caused the ships sinking. But one problem with thier claim they say that the ship broke on the surface.... but ships that break on the surface have the bow and stern miles apart from each other. But the Fitz's bow and stern are literally feet from each other... she DID NOT break on the surface. she broke in half when she hit the bottom of the lake after the rouge wave made here nose dive to the bottom

[zequelll]

@Mortskcab

i agree as well, the damage to the front of the ship could not of been caused by anything other then slamming into the lakebed nose first.

[Mortskcab]

@zequelll They had no chance... probably took less than 15 seconds

[kimdaviscali]

This episode was UNBELIEVABLY good... great show, glad they're doing their own now....

Kim (aka Jennifer in Vancouver, BC).

[astar334]

Wow. How can i watch the full episode?

[Chrliesangelsman]

@astar334 did you ever get an answer to this question? i would like to watch it too. looks great.

[BMan100]

holy CRAP I want to see this!