The Trap - "Fuck You Buddy!" - 2/6 - Adam Curtis

[StrummingSparrow]

what is that song at the end?

[chihuahua15000]

John Nash clearly never played Monopoly.

[Yehbytheway]

Politics and criminology .

Crooks and crooks wondering when they will get whacked.

'Paranoia the criminal equalivent of intelligence'

Chopper Read

[FreeMeFromG]

Way too funny. Nash comes up with this crazy selfish nonsense and people at RAND I'm sure give him a raise:

Then two other knuckle heads at RAND some up with The Prisoner's Dilemma and no one stops and says: "Hey, did it every occur to anyone all we do is game out paranoid shit and always use prisoners and thieves and murderers in our scenarios?"

And all these people had jobs and got paychecks. Amazing.

[EmperorXan]

The thing that is annoying is how what Nash's theory really shows, but gets overlooked, is that his prized outcome only works in a controlled environment where real-world consequences do not exist.

[LordBifford]

7:28 Nash tested his theory on the secretaries at his workplace and was somehow astonished that these working colleagues treated each other with more kindness and fairness than his hypothetical gangsters. No fucking shit.

[gilgamesh1962]

I m new to this, but under the "fuck you buddy" system, there is another motive for being honest ( besides the threat of revenge ) and that is the future possibility working together with the other person. I mean in the case of the jewel, if their cooperation was successful once, it could be again. that's why its common in "real life" to see many partners in crime, even though there is no honor among thieves .

[099749]

The sucker pay off is bullshit you dont leave the diamond and took the money your a dead man and so win nothing! And he will hunt you down to the end of the earth and fucking kill you! Nash is an idiot and only considers the wealth, not the social consiquences of screwing someone over! And an evil ganster would have no problem killing you.

[EmperorXan]

Horrible. Just horrible. I like how the documentary completely glosses over the cooperative feature of game theory in the space of about twenty seconds.

[bobbygnosis]

@EmperorXan Seriously.

It's like he has contempt for Objectivism or something.

[cix888]

@flexicon1996 the story of Josephus or what Mathematicians call the Josephus problem is much older than Hobbes... and seems to me more than "stated", applied this view!

[255ad]

the "Fuck You Buddy" situation would not work if the one man in some way wonted the diamond because he needed it to live and the other needed the money to live they would both die as a result of mistrust

[Yehbytheway]

The Trap.

subtitle

How some stupid bankers and politicians where fanned by sychophants that everyone was as selfish as them and should be treated accordingly and how they use hypothetical bullshit and mood points based on fantastcal scenarios justifies their greed and paranoia.

Because lets face it they would do the same to you.

Catchy !!

[chretiendutroyes]

I just realized that this was a separate subthread from the one above concerning Hayek. It all looks like one when the video is running.

But anyway, whether Hobbes would apply the "rational" to self interest is doubtful, considering that he considered it best if an absolute monarch be able to enforce a social contract. In contrast to Hayek or the technocrats of the documentary, who hope to harness rather than curb the self interest. Curtis traces the path of current implementation, not origin.

[chretiendutroyes]

Hobbes didn't view that as an ideal condition.

[faunflynn]

My grandfather worked for the rand corp.

It had a very nasty effect on our family.

[DonPMitchell]

His description of the Prisoner's Dilemma is not very accurate. What game theory proved is that the optimal strategy is not to always betray, the optimal strategy is "tit for tat", to only betray someone if they betray you, and to forgive them if they start to cooperate.

[AnOldMan]

that's not quite right. That is only the best strategy in a game where 2 parties play the prisoners delimma with eachother an unknown finite number of times.

But tit for tat wasn't figured out untill axelrod's stuff in the 70s

[CallumR56]

Does anyone know the name of the music that starts playing at 5:43?

[chretiendutroyes]

It sounds like part of the sound track to the movie Vertigo

[wesvillager]

The pretense that this BS has anything to do with Hayek is obscene.

[StuJee1]

why?

[MrJohndoakes]

Because the people who like Hayek and the other "Austrian economists" don't like it when the core of their philosophy; i.e. "every man for himself, and God against all", is said so openly. It makes then look like the dicks they are.

[StuJee1]

i like the fact that the game theorists tested out their theories on admin staff and they behaved unselfishly. its always good to take an empirical approach.....

[goPistons06]

@MrJohndoakes this video misrepresents Hayek's philosophy. his is a philosophy of cooperation and voluntary association- in short, liberty. don't call him a dick if you don't know his thought.

[MrJohndoakes]

@goPistons06 I read von Hayek's "Road to Serfdom", a couple of Ayn Rand books, and Mike Huben's "Critiques of Libertarianism" - I know how Austrianism works and it really is a giant justification for being a ruthless dick.

[vnano]

@MrJohndoakes If you believe in gods, then you are pretty fucked up.

[athinggoinon]

@MrJohndoakes The question isn't whether or not they're dicks or not (which is a subjective conclusion based on an opinion). The question should be whether or not they're right or not. Your argument is nothing but a superficial ad hominem.