intense aircraft. my favorite as a boy and to be honest, still my favorite now. Lets just save the bickering, we are all one species that build our technologies on ideas given to us from many nationalities, let's just marvel at what we can accomplish and what is yet to be made.
As usual, as an American, you cannot help but wildly over play & exaggerate relatively minor disorder, and somehow compare it to a scene from Dante's Inferno. Over dramatising matters to the point of panic, is an national character trait of Americans. For example, Air Force One performed a low flight over NYC a couple of years ago, and the residents ran around flapping, terrified that a second 9/11 was in progress. Americans cannot do calm collect phlegmatism, they just panic. Pathetic.
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH And as a Brit, you appease aggression and play the Ostrich in the face of terminal savagery, a trait you have dragged along with you since Chamberlain, hence your society now being in its current decrepit condition. I visited the Czech Republic recently and a taxi driver in Prague told me that he refuses to carry British passengers, they are routinely drunk and violent. Your laziness and lack of social pride define you as a people, and your society merely reflects that.
@WinchesterRanger Meanwhile, back in the Utopian US, with your street gang & drug culture, Uzi drive by shootings, huge racial tensions, burgeoning Mexican illegal immigrant population, excessive emphasis on firearms for 'home defence,' etc. I won't mentioning the huge poverty levels that are swept under the carpet, the redneck trailer trash culture, & the vast numbers of people who are illiterate & the millions who have no healthcare provision. I won't mention your national debt of trillions!
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH And now you show the typical British ignorance towards life in the US. I have lived for many years in both countries, have you? No, probably just 2 weeks in Florida with your drunken, cynical brethren. Having experienced both, there is no comparison. The UK is dismal and soul-sapping, here in the US people love life, the people I knew in the UK complained incessantly, with cause. As for firearms, our government trusts us with them, yours does not, which speaks volumes.
@WinchesterRanger The US government doesn't really trust us with firearms but fortunately the Constitution does. I've been living here in the US for 11 years but still go back to visit family in the UK regularly - man it has really changed over the past decade...and not for the better! Having said that - the US is, unfortunately progressively heading in the same direction. Generally it seems that people are being taught that they are no longer responcible for there own actions - blame others!
@tomburley I've been here for exactly 10 years so we have a lot in common. I used to go back to the UK to visit family, but I stopped going about 3 years ago, I can't even stand to visit the place any more, it's a real cess pool these days, and even one week was too much for me, what with the crowds, the drunks, the routine night time violence, and the insane prices. The sheer quality of life in the US is amazing, I could never leave, I only miss the food and the countryside, nothing else.
@WinchesterRanger I know what you mean. Of course I still retain a lot of respect for the Britan I remember - I'm sure there are several decent people still there. But boy has it changed in the past 10 yrs - and not for the best.
There are some areas of wonderful "English" countryside in areas of the US - not quite as easy to find though'.
Resolved almost all of my English food issues by either online shopping or from the British stores scattered across the States - Bangers & Mash tonight!
And yet you have left literally hundreds of pathetic (even more pathetic than naming yourself for a type of ammunition) trolling messages on UK military videos. Very telling.
Shame about the food. Still, one day an enterprising Brit will stock up and allow you to chug down a gallon-sized jug of corn syrup, & other quality American foods that come in plastic receptacles that most countries would only consider appropriate for holding 2-stroke fuel.
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH Correction - No one in the USA goes without healthcare treatment for emergency care - it's just that about 15% of the population doesn't pay for it so the hospitals and individual States have to write off the cost or pick up the tab. What US healthcare insurers provide is a vastly higher level of healthcare than is offered by the NHS - I think youare now comparing apples to oranges.
@WinchesterRanger Yes we have a tradition of appeasing other nations don't we? That must be why we have the most colourful & successful military history of ANY nation. I don't remember the British government appeasing the Chinese in Korea, the communists in Malaya, Borneo or Oman, the Mau Mau in Kenya, or the IRA in Northern Ireland. I don't remember Mrs Thatcher 'appeasing' the Argentinians in 1982. Perhaps you should look up the definition of, 'appease.'
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH You're living in the past again, the latest Wikileaks documents show that the Afghans were shocked at the poor performance of your troops in Helmand, who were also caught requesting USAF CAS in preference to RAF support, and don't even get me started on RAF performance in the Gulf War, it was beyond dismal. And now we learn that the terrorist bomber Al Megrahi was released to ensure good business relations with Libya. Look at what you are, not what you were.
@WinchesterRanger Dismal performance? How ironic. Evidently Gen Petraeus doesn't think so. He made a personal visit to 3 Para in Helmand this last week to personally thank them for killing so many Taliban in recent weeks. The fact that the Taliban no longer engage in the open against British forces says it all. Everytime they have done so, they have been punished heavily, frequently on the end of a bayonet, something US soldiers don't like using.
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH I'm afraid you're choosing to believe the public face and not the cofidential message. Both the Afghans and US forces have been exposed as lamenting the performance of the British troops. Petraeus will not be seen to crticize the performance of any foreign troops in theater - it would be political suicide. But it matters little to me, I'm not here to dump on your military, they are what they are, good or bad, it's more your ill-founded bigotry that got us started.
@WinchesterRanger Please do evidence your remark about the performance of the RAF in the Gulf. I will take great pleasure in shredding your argument. The USAF lived upto it's usual reputation in GW1. Would you like to discuss the two imbecile A-10 pilots who killed eight British troops & destroyed two Warrior APC displaying the allied orange roof marker panels. During the Kosovo crisis, the USAF killed far more civilians, than it did Serbian combatants-thereby breaching the Geneva Convention.
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH The inability of your Tornado F3s to operate in forward areas because they lacked modern IFF and had questionable survivability against Iraqi MiG 29s, the high loss rates associated with the failed British tactic of low level airfield attacks using the JP233 dispenser and your embarassing reversion to high level attacks with the hurried introduction of Buccaneers as designator aircraft using US supplied kit to "put on a show" and save some face. But I have no interest in this
@WinchesterRanger The Tornado F3 is an interceptor, not an air superiority fighter, so you are comparing apples with oranges. Secondly, I suggest you research the sucess that RAF F3 Tornado's have enjoyed in ACM exercises against the USAF in the US. They have regularly given an extremely good account of themselves. Thirdly, how many MIG 29's shot down Tornado's? NONE. Changing tactics in war is natural, if the theory does not work in practise, you do not 'save face,' you evolve.
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH The Tornado is a good all round plane - not a master of any one role - It was a bit of luck that the Buccaneer was still in service during the Gulf war as it acted as the laser designator aircraft for the Tornados since they didn't have on board laser designators....bit of a handicap to be honest!
@WinchesterRanger Perhaps you would like to discuss the incident whereby trigger happy, nervous US soldiers fired a SAM & shot down an RAF Tornado down that was making it's final approach to land at an allied airbase in GW2. Both aircrew were killed as a consequence. Yet another example of excessive gung-ho antics from flapping Yanks. Talk about unprofessional. I would have thought that aircraft recognition should be a high priority for SAM equipped soldiers in a war zone.
@WinchesterRanger Ah yes, those paragons of all things military, the AFGANS, have been critical about the Brits.Gee that hurts. NOT. Al Megrahi released- shocking. Incidentally, what disciplinary/legal action was brought against the Captain of the US destroyer that 'accidentally' blew an Iranian airliner out the sky, killing hundreds in the mid-late 1980's? Was he put on trial, convicted & jailed for gross incompetance? Or was it all just swept under the carpet? KETTLE CALLING POT BLACK.
@tomburley Chamberlain 'appeased' Hitler in 38 at the Munich conference. The traditional view that Chamberlain was naive & believed he had achieved, "Peace in our time," is very inaccurate. In the last decade, historians have acquired direct access to his personal papers & letters. It is quite clear from them that Chamberlain's sole intent at Munich was to actually buy Britain time to prepare for a war that he knew was inevitable. He bought Britain eighteen months in order to prepare for war.
Also - in the last decade the wonderful Progressive Socialists have been busy rewriting history in a way that is so inaccurate it won't be long before people are taught that Germany only went to war to defend itself and America tricked Japan into attacking Pearl Harbour! - Yes you can be sure I believe all the new "revised" history!!!
@tomburley In reality, there was no effective military aid or option available to Britain to support Czechoslovakia or Poland. RAF Bomber Command was miniscule in 1938/9 & totally unprepared and ill equipped to mount any effective offensive action in support of either nation. How easy it is to argue that more should have been done. In the real world there was no effective military option available to Britain in 1938/9. One nation is certainly in no position to point the finger at the UK- the US!
Barely adequate fuel, minimal weapons, a nightmare to maintain, and sold only to the lickspittle Saudis and Kuwaitis. The true genius of design from that era was the Mirage III/5/50. When once asked by the authorities to shoot down an errant weather balloon, the commander of an F.3 squadron had to respond that he didn't have any weapons that would work against it. Oh yes, the mighty Lightning, fast, but largely useless as a combat aircraft.
@WinchesterRanger An innane remark. The F3, unlike the F1 & F2, had it's cannon removed initially & was missile armed only. This was duly reversed after objections from the RAF & cannon were reinstated. The EEL could outperform the Mirage 3 in just about every area, The US has it's own white elephant- the laughable F-22. It was intended to be developed over 9 years, 86-96, it has taken 21 yrs to produce an aircraft with appalling servicability- 34 hrs maintainance for every 2.4 hours of flight.
@WinchesterRanger The F-22 has proven to be one of the most disasterous DoD projects in US history. It has cost 65 billion dollars to develope, unit cost works out around 354 million dollars. Originally the USAF planned 748 ac, 183 have been built & the project cancelled by Obama. Of the 183, 83 are operational, 41 are grounded due to CORROSION & 59 'retracted' due to cracks & defects in their airframes. In 2001 F22 flew less than 0.6 hours between maintainance
@WinchesterRanger In 2007, the F22 still flew less than one hour for every maintainance period required. It's servicability is an absolute joke. After much mocking & sneering about the Eurofighter, the USAF had to eat a huge portion of humble pie. In a NATO ACM exercise, 2 RAF Typhoons embarassed the F-22 by achieving a high number of 'kills' beyond visual range. Isn't so called 'stealth' technology wonderful? On day 2 of the Ex, from some strange reason, the USAF cancelled the Ex. ROFL
@WinchesterRanger The US has developed an utter failure of an aircraft, to the tune of nearly 70 billion $. US has compounded this by developing another lame duck at huge cost, the Joint Strike Fighter. It has been openly criticised from all sides at it's inability to meet ANY of it's key primary performance criteria. No doubt Uncle Sam will reverse this piss poor performance. In the words of WInston Churchill, " The Americans ALWAYS find the right solution after trying EVERYTHING else first."
the yanks nicked our sound barrier tek off us but they needed a rocket to do it,lol, we wre ready to do it with a jet engine, but even our old jets still beat theres,lol, frank whittle rules ok,
@splez4 Correct! The Miles M52 was designed to break the barrier. The Yanks offered a deal to the UK gov, you give us all your research data, and your top guys can come to the US & work on a joint project. The UK gov handed over the research data & guess what? Three weeks later the Yanks pulled the plug on the deal. We were streets ahead of them in research. IE We discovered the need for a moving/tilting elevator in order to maintain full control at high speed in 1943. It was a disgrace.
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH The All Moving Elevator of which Chuck Yeager loves to boast that the US invented and took us Brits a decade to figure out how it worked.... Whilst I have a lot of American friends, good friends, Gentlemen all, the US does have a warped sense of history and fact sometimes, guess it must be the Hollywood syndrome... O.o
@Ecthaelyon No, I disagree, it's SHEER BLOODY IGNORANCE, coupled with EXTREME ARROGANCE. Most Americans know nothing of the Miles M52, or the fact that the British invented the fully moving elevator in 1943. The Americans were way behind us in terms of sound barrier research. They caught up through sheer treachery by lying to the UK government & offering a joint research project, in return for our top secret research. Frankly, over the last ten years, I have grown to despise the Americans.
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH Isn't history repeating itself with the F-35 crock of poop? How much have we paid into that BS project, how much Tech have we put into it and how much Tech sharing have we been given in return? In US terminology... Zip. I have to admit in sharing some of the strong feelings regarding US business practices as you do. Bring back the British and Canadian Aero Industries and let us go back to the good old days, at least we still have friends in the great white north.
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH While you whine piteously about us supposedly stealing "elevator technology" from you, I note no mention of you giving fully constructed jet turbines to the Soviets which they promptly copied - at least we were your allies, and let's not mention British espionage that resulted in the loss of our nuclear secrets to the same mutual enemy. Enjoy your hatred as your once proud nation sails into the abyss of terminal social decay. Britain is finished.
@WinchesterRanger Oh please, do not compare the somewhat naive post-war diplomacy of Atlee's government with the deceiptful behaviour of the US re the sound barrier. Social decline? Evidently you cannot see the splinter in my eye, for the plank of 4 x 2 wood in your own! The US INVENTED social decline in the West! Decadent, soft lifestyles, too much reliance on push button technology, excessive consumption in ALL areas, food, natural resouces etc. Don't scoff-the Chinese will steal your crown :)
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH You exhibit all the typical traits of your arrogant breed, selectively dismissing inconvenient truths about the leaking and downright free distribution of the most advanced technological information to your own enemies in favor of desperate attempts to somehow diminish US successes. Now as we watch your cities burn and your royalty come under attack in the streets, not to mention your feral youth and failing economy, you'll forgive us a chuckle.
@WinchesterRanger Arrogance? Umm, I must say, that is one area where most Americans excel. I have not denied that Attlee's government acted foolishly when they handed the Russian's the latest Rolls Royce jet engine. That was an open & honest, if stupid piece of diplomacy. What the US government did in order to obtain British sound barrier research was extremely duplicious. Failure to recognise the massive British contribution, whilst claiming ALL the glory merely compounds the act of duplicity.
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH You know, you really do need some cheese with that whine. India and China I respect, they don't moan about past misdeeds, they simply get on with progressing and growing their societies, you and your ilk only seem capable of complaining about some obscure piece of intellectual property that you claim was stolen from you. Your nation is broken, you would best exert your efforts in looking forward and trying to resolve that situation, the past holds little future for you.
@WinchesterRanger Ah! Such sparkling wit! Not. Enjoy the next 15-20 years as the world's leading superpower, by 2025, the US will have to listen to China. By 2030-5 China will exceed US GDP. It's all over for the US of A, but you are all too myopic, ignorant & enthnocentric to see what is coming over the horizon. American's don't like coming second do they? My, my, won't you all have a huge reality check in the next couple of decades.
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH Spoken by someone who spends his weekends complaining how "Americans stole our elevator design !!". You people have been told that the Chinese takeover is both inevitable and a good thing, I hear this a lot from Brits who seem to relish the prospect like a Turkey looking forward to Christmas. There's a large cemetary just outside of Cambridge you should visit, but it's not filled with dead Chinese soldiers. Think about that the next time you profess your hatred of Americans.
@WinchesterRanger Sarcasim, the lowest form of wit. Better luck next time with the banal insults. Back to the adult world now- re China, you seem to be implying that China's rise to the top of the tree is NOT inevitable? Interesting, even Obama's administration was very quick to openly acknowledge that by 2025, the playing field will have changed completely, with China coming to the fore as a superpower. Thanks for lecturing me about US cemetries, I've seen plenty of massive British & CW ones.
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH You haven't seen those British military cemetaries in America though have you, that's the point, you hate the US but thousands of my countrymen died protecting you - get it? probably not, you've already consumed the Kool Aid. The US "may" falter in 2025, but I doubt it, we're too much or a powerhouse, what's more to the point is that your nation has already failed. Grossly over-crowded, a basket case financially with a crumbling infrastructure, and now street riots. Happy?
@WinchesterRanger You are too myopic to appreciate the situation the US is in today. Ironically, your position matches that of Britain at the turn of the 19th/20th century. We were still the foremost manufacturing nation in the world, but the US was closing the gap rapidly. China is doing exactly the same thing to the US as we speak. If anybody has Osterich syndrome, it's the US, your own comment aptly highlights this point, "we're too much of a powerhouse." Very smug, VERY naive.....
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH Time will tell, but I should listen to the advice of someone who resides in a nation that has already failed, I think not. The US has the ability, the manufacturing capability, and the sheer dynamic energy to work its way out of any problem, that's my assessment, and if it comes across as smug then so be it. The UK on the other hand is crippled, just take a look at the other videos on this site - you only have your hatred and memories of past greatness, nothing else.
@WinchesterRanger Point of fact, by the time the US deployed the USAAF to Britain in early 42, any danger of a German invasion had long since passed. You would do well to appreciate the significance of the Battle Of Britain-it ended ANY potential invasion hopes. By 43, Germany was already on a backfoot, having lost in the Western Desert, endured the diasaster of defeat at Stalingrad in Dec 42. USAAF ops were offensive, not defensive. The word 'HATE' appears in your posts, not mine..
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH Obama admits this because he is focused on it being so - He does not want the US to be a powerful nation - he and his administation are actively working to make the US poorer and weaker so that Countries like China and India start to get wealth parity. He has this progressive view that everyone in the world should have the same...rather like the communist attitude and we all know how successful that's been.
@tomburley Somehow, I doubt Obama wishes to deliberately weaken the position of the US in the world. The sad fact is, the US has reached it's peak and is now on the way down. It is interesting to note that in the late 60's, the US funded a massively expensive war in Vietnam & a hugely expensive space programme. Now to all intents & purposes, the US space programme is virtually stillborn, Obama having slashed the budget. China is now the second largest economy & growing at a very rapid rate.
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH You can 'doubt' what you want but if you actually openned your eyes and studied his policies etc you'd be blind not to see. China is rapidly gobbling up the worlds resources but has done nothing to contribute to advancement in anything other than destablising world markets and supplies.
@tomburley It matters not one jot what, if any advancement China has given the world, she will undoubtedly eclipse the US as the world's largest economy within 15 years given the current rate of growth of her economy. With economic power comes military power. Based on numerous discussions I have had on YT with Americans, the vast majority of them simply refuse to acknowledge the possibility of the US being eclipsed by China. Collectively they have their heads buried in the sand.
@WinchesterRanger I am still waiting for you to confirm how many US Presidents have either been assassinated, or have been subject to attempted assassinations.Laziness? The Americans invented the word and soft living. TV dinners? Couch potato culture? Highest obesity levels in the world? Push button society? The hallmarks of a morally bankrupt, weak society. I have witnessed first hand the US army's concept of living in the field on exercise. It is laughable- & reflects on your soft society.
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH Sure I'll play, we've had 4 killed, plus one congressman, with 20 attempts in total - now you reciprocate and tell me how many UK politicians have been assasinated or were the victims of attempted assasination in the UK since 1865. As for laziness, US workers consistenly and routinely outwork their UK counterparts as demonstrated by official figures (1777 versus 1652 hours per annum) your anecdotes reflect only your self-confessed bias, not facts.
@WinchesterRanger Grubby politicians are not the head of state in Britain, that is the role of monarchy. The fact that to date, no assassination has occurred speaks volumes. Those few politicians that have been murdered in the UK, were killed by terrorist groups such as the IRA/INLA. In the US, assassins tend to be socially dysfunctional losers with a penchant for guns. Again, that is just a reflection on US culture & it's obsession with firearms. Too many John Wayne films me thinks......
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH So now you realise that you were hoist on your own petard, having failed to post the actual figures, which of course are massively higher than the US numbers. As for royalty you also forget the assasination of Earl Mountbatten, resorting instead to childish and oh so predictable John Wayne barbs. I have systemically destroyed every single one of your hate filled arguments with facts. You are a void, a loudmouth with nothing to offer but your bigotry. I pity you.
@WinchesterRanger As I said in my post, assassinations of political figures in Britain have been perpetrated by TERRORISTS, not dysfunctional, firearms obsessed citizens. To the IRA, Mountbatten WAS a political target. Clearly you do not read too well, or assimilate a simple point. You have not hoisted anybody on their own petard, you have shown yourself incapable of understanding a simple point. The fact that CITIZENS carry out assassinations, reflects on US society extremely badly.
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH The US has citizens and the UK has 'subjects' - based on your own observation about the Monarchy being the head of State.
A Citizen can elect the head of the government - often they elect a bad head of government but 4 yrs later they can elect someone else. In the UK you, as a subject or psuedo citizen, get one vole for your local member of parliment - no choice in who will be Prime Minister - Government calls the date of election and the Monarchy remains. Now who's free?
@tomburley You appear confused. The UK electoral system is based on a first past the post system. The individual's vote counts just as it does in the US. The monarch is apolitical and has no direct role in government, what it does is provide the UK with a head of state that is above mere grubby politics. Look around the world at nations with Presidential systems- France & Italy- both nations have had corrupt politicians as their respective heads of state-look at Italy currently- Berlusconi! lol
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH I'm not confused - you assume I am not familiar with the UK voting system - I was born in the UK and lived there for nearly 40 yrs. FACT - in the UK you vote solely for your local MP and you don't even get any say in who stands as your MP. Of course British MPs are not corrupt at all are they?
@tomburley The point is, you vote for the MP that represents the party whose politics you believe in. By voting for your local candidate, you are voting by proxy for the leader you prefer. I never denied that corruption exists in British politics, it most certainly does. That is the VERY point I was making when I pointed out the advantage of an apolitical head of state, they are above grubby politics and the corruption associated with it.
@WinchesterRanger You have the temerity to talk of the Royal's coming under attack. As usual, the US penchant for wild exaggeration rises its head. (Thank goodness the US never faced the Blitz in WW2.) Half a dozen misguided halfwits throwing a tin of paint & smashing a window on a Rolls Royce, hardly equates to a revolution does it? Incidentally, how many US presidents have either been assassinated, or faced attempted assassination attempts? Yes, the US is a Utopian paradise isn't it?! ROFL
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH Your facade is beginning to crack. It's not just the riots, and you know that, it's your economy, your failing education system, your failing infrastructure, your over-population, your asylum seeker issues, your out of control Muslim population, your unemplyment rates, the fact that you have the highest teen pregnancy rates in Europe, the recent UN study that showed the UK to be the world's most violent first world nation - it's everything, you're in terminal decline.
@WinchesterRanger Umemployment rates? Ah! You jest with me sir! The US unemployment rate has just reached an alarming TEN PERCENT, so I wouldn't crow too loudly. You point out the splinter in my eye, whilst you have a plank of wood in your own. Asylum problems? Would you like to discuss the illegal Mexican immigrant problem in the US? Projected figures suggest that you will swamped in coming years due to the alarming birth rate amongst Mexican immigrants.
@WinchesterRanger In 2010, we in the UK have experienced some relatively minor student deomonstrations that passed off without any fatalities. In the late 1960's, the US pitched National Guard units against students & they opened fire killing numerous demonstrators. How VERY American, usual lack of discipline & restraint. The Muslim population? I will start getting seriously concerned when Muslim army Majors open fire on their own soldiers in barracks.....You know all about that in the US.
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH To be fair the UK didn't have the same issue regarding color segragation but then the US hasn't had to deal with a 30 year civil war between Catholics & Protestants.
Of course in the UK the military doesn't permit soldiers to carry ammunition - it is issued for live fire exercises only - it's a good way to ensure soldiers don't shoot each other!
@tomburley Aside from live fire training, why else would you have troops carrying live rounds unnecessarily? Having been over to the US on a military exchange, & participated in live fire exercises, I can only say that British training is far superior and far more realistic than that of the US inf. US live fire ranges are a health & safety nightmare. It was quite apparent to me that US soldiers simply are not trusted to handle live exercises safely, they are excessively supervised & controlled.
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH Now you're quoting "Health and Safety" next you'll be suggesting that War is dangerous and that there should be Health & Safety regulations that must be met before soldiers can engauge the enemy....Obama wanted US soldiers to read miranda rights to enemy combatants before, during and after every engaugement - taking his idea from EEC suggestions!
@WinchesterRanger I am still waiting for your reposte on the 10% rate of unemployment in the US. Failed education system? Don't make me laugh. How many million Americans are illiterate? Approximately 30 MILLION out of a population of 150-160 million. lol People from all over the globe fight tooth & nail to get into Oxford, Cambridge & a plethora of other British universities & Public schools. You talk of decline, the US leads the way in social decline, you are just too myopic to see it.
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH US population is over 315 million - and that doesn't include several million illegals! Not really sure why you are proud of Oxford/Cambridge - certainly most of the Universities in the UK...most of which were polytechnics until a few years ago have as many illiterate students as most modern colleges - anywhere. The whole world (yes UK and USA included) has started to produce a generation of self centered selfish people..."The entitlement Generation"
@tomburley You are wrong to assert that most British universities were polytechnics until a few years ago. The vast majority of universities have always been so. Oxford & Cambridge are the finest universities on the globe-hence individuals from all over the world fight tooth & nail to gain entry. "The entitlement generation," are predominantly found in western/capitalist nations- they are a bi-product of consumerism, much wants more- VERY shallow, VERY sad individuals.
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH I am NOT wrong - In the mid 90's the UK reclassified Polytechnics as Universities - thus nearly quadrupling the number of "Universities" Oxford and Cambridge are well past there prime but still highly acclaimed Universities....as are Harvard, Yale and Princeton. I'm not saying that any one is better than the others on either side of the pond. You surely must agree that the level of education today is not as balanced as it was 30 to 40 years ago?
@tomburley I would agree with you that the standard of education has fallen generally. There are a plethora of reasons, in conjunction to standards being watered down to accomodate the less intelligent, people barely read these days. They are obsessed with computers & gadgets at the expense of reading quality books. I have a large collection of books on my shelves at home. My job entails me entering other people's houses on a regular basis, I rarely see a book on display in most houses.
@tomburley No, the reclassification of certain polytechnics did not 'quadruple' the number of British universities. And 'one is better than the others on either side of the pond'. Members of just one British university, that of Cambridge, have won more Nobel Prizes than the entire academic community of the United States of America put together. And the word 'their', incidentally, is a homophone for 'there' but is not spelt the same.
@TheMarkXIV OK - let me rephrase my statement then...It nearly quadrupled the number of available "university" places available for students. As for Nobel prizes being offered up as a validation of one institution being better than another, that has to be one of the most stupid statements ever. Firstly it is totally inaccurate - highest placed is Columbia Uni. with 96 second is Cambridge with 88 and third is Uni of Chicago with 87. .....more....
@TheMarkXIV Secondly since some of the winners of Nobel prizes are Kofi Annan, Jimmy Carter and Barack Obama you do really have to question how political the organization is surely?
@tomburley Ah, well, I only know three Nobel Prize winners - two for Literature, one for Economics, that one at Columbia, oddly enough - so I'm probably not up to speed. The Peace Prize is something of a political odd-one-out and is not awarded at the same ceremony or even in the same country as the others (though it is on the same night).
@TheMarkXIV PS - yes, thank you for pulling me up on the misuse or rather incorrect spelling of 'there' - quite right of you - it should have been 'their' as it refers to a possessive. - I trust that you accept my other replies in the same spirit of accuracy.
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH It wasn't really a treacherous deal - The UK did get a fair bit of write down of the war debt along with the deal so, technically the UK sold the US its research - partly because the UK could not afford to continue the development research on its own.
@tomburley I beg to differ. Lend Lease crippled the UK economy for decades after the war. We only finished servicing the debt FOUR years ago. The US was extremely cynical, it saw the opportunity to effectively cripple the UK & seize a dominant role in the world for itself. ONE country emerged from WW2 having made a huge profit out of it, the US. Everybody else was financially burnt out. Secondly, the UK did NOT sell it's speed of sound research, the US blatantly lied in order to obtain it.
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH So the US should have foot the bill for Britain then? And the US should not have invested in rebuilding Germany either - or Japan? Did any Country offer to pay the US to assist them? No. The US came to the aid of the British and the "Lend Lease act" didn't cover even 50% of the total aid that the US provided. I'm proud that the British actually repaid in full....no one else did!
America didn't get rich off WW2 - some corporations did as well as financial groups - both US & UK
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH I said 'technically" it sold research - not in terms of dollars or pounds - it was understood that it would be shared. As it was also "understood" that Britain would dissolue it's Empire and give Countries that it ruled over the option of establishing stand alone rule.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Pretty on paper and a joy to fly, but with barely enough fuel and on many versions an armament of just 2 IR homing missiles of highly questionable effectiveness, it was just as well the Frightening never saw actual combat.
it was the only aircraft that ever intercepted a u2 the lightning dived on it from 88,000ft!!!!!!! lol
it was also the 1st aircraft to supercruise (maintain mach 1+ without using afterburner) DECADES before the raptor or typhoon could do it (concord supercruised at mach2!!)
it was also the only aircraft ever to intercept a concord from the rear none of the american aircraft manedged it
in short it was absolutely incredible and still is :)
Let's not get too overzealous with our Wikipedia-ing.
No lightning ever "dived" on a U2 from 88,000ft. Hale burned to top speed and executed a ballistic climb. He reached the U2 at 88,000 right before he stalled. U2 was never intended to be fast, it was designed to be invisible. Hale was told where his target was and instructed to try and reach it while the U2 did nothing.
Even then, that was in 1984. No one was impressed being that Mig 25's had already reached 120,000+ft in the late 70's.
You should come over to Warton and come out with your shit about the EE Lightning, you'll soon learn what it feels like to fly to 50,000 feet in one minute.
@gakornegay In fairness, to add some context to the debate ;) The U2 wouldnt have been able to do anything about theLightning whether it was climbing or diving. The U2 at that altitude would have been powerless to make any move out of the way. The Lightning did not stall, the pilot bunted before he lost airflow to the flying controls. The U2 was FAR, FAR from being invisible and it was NOT designed to be. It flew, what the US hoped, out of the range of interceptors and SAM's.
Respond to this video...The U2 did nothing as it had no idea the Lightning was fast approaching. The Mig-25 that held the professed records of the day was merely an airframe, it was NOT a frontline and combat operational aircraft. Step down a peg mate and let a few peeps have their day, the US isn't all that and a bag of potAto crisps... :)
They took the technological information provided by the British and began work on the Bell XS-1. The final version of the Bell XS-1 has many design similarities to the original Miles version. Also featuring the all-moving tail, the XS-1 was later known as the X-1
Thanks for the info, I didn`t know that. I just wanted to cool down some peoples tempers about USA/UK. It seems that we, the UK, USA, Aussies, Kiwis and Canadians hold this world together and its a pity when we "slag" each other over childish prejudice.
Britain had disclosed all its research and designs to the U.S on the promise that U.S. information would be shared the other way.The U.S. failed to disclose any information in return, stating the Pentagon had deemed the project Top Secret (NEXT PART COMING UP)
@fallyb And that very same "spits" Labour government GAVE all the manufacturing rights, licenses and technical blue prints for our jet engines and related development to the US and later relinquished all patents on existing engines and projects... Trust me, not a lot of folk do understand the Americans in the way they would like us to...
the lighting still holds climb to altitude records,maybe its avioncis were limited but only takes one missile or a couple of rounds to knock out an invading aircraft to britian.
You're blinded by nationalism and the belief that all Americans are out to snub you and anything British. What a sorry way to live life.
I never said the Lighting wasn't a good aircraft, just that it wasn't as ground breaking as you seem to think it is, and all you seem to be able to do is attack America and not refute my comments.
Perhaps you can reply without an insult or slam this time...
Well i will. Having seen a doc .on Bletchley Park GCHQ that told of the work to crack German codes, a woman in the last scene told of her vow of silence not to talk about the Colossus computer they built there to crack the enemy "Tunny" machine, even more devious than Enigma. She visited America some years later (still under vow) and had to listen to brash American
woman talking about a derivative computer developed in the US saying "the Brits are so far behind in stuff like this" ..Aaaggghhh !
if the English Electric Lightning was not ground breaking ,then google Saunders-Roe SR.177.then look on Wikipedia and read Design and development part.
Very true,people must remember that us brits were in very big debt to america after world war 2,so we had no choice but to give them our innovations and technical 'firsts'.
i know what you mean, we had so many awesome projects such as the TSR2 miles m.52 and SR.177. Too bad the lightning was the only one that ever made it passed the drawing board.
yes put a big nail in the British independent aircraft industries
but i think that was the intension
get rid of the compation and only left America and Russia in the miltary aircraft sales no one could really match them. although Britain France and Sweden have tried.and of cause the multi Eurpean
This vertical climbing, mach 2.0 (in 1959 but now obsolete) highly manouverable bullet was way ahead of anything.
Note for any blinkered F-22 fans, the point at 3.23 where a single rocket from the drop internal rocket pack is fired, yes again, from the INTERNAL weapon bay.
it was also the first aircraft to super-cruise, not the F-22. it also intercepted a U-2 at 63,000 feet which the US thought was safe from intercept, and went on to 88,000 feet
Where did hear the lightning had an internal weapons bay? It barely had room in the fuselage for fuel let alone a weapons bay because of the space the engines took.
Rocket packs, admittedly not a 2009 weapons bay (dont expect full length doors opening with start spangled banner blurring out), but hey, it was 1959, were you born then, I wasnt?
Big deal, so the Lightning could climb almost straight up and had a rocket pack. The F-102 entered service in 1956 and had both rockets and guided missiles, all in internal bays. The F-94C and F-86D had internal rocket bays and they were even earlier in the 50s. Other than a rant against the F-22, what is it you were saying?
My point is that the Lightning wasn't that big a deal, weapons wise, at the time as other aircraft had similar ordnance fits. You're long on insults but short on actually refuting my comments. I'm not saying the Lighting wasn't impressive, just that it wasn't unique.
The point I'm making is not you, AVIATION HISTORY made the EE-L a milestone, yet a yank knows better as usual.
It out climbed, to higher altitude, at higher speed for that altitude, had unique features unlike any aircraft even today (except thunderbird 1 LOL) This before considering weapons system, HOTAS etc.
The B-52 is amazing still, it didnt kill me to admit it.
I'm sick of some Yanks who
think a RR-Merlin engine COPIED by USA betters the genius RR designing in the first place.
What does it matter where I live? The only person tossing nationalistic insults is you, not me. I've never said the Lighting wasn't a good plane, just that it wasn't the first at everything as you implied. The Lighting could do one thing well, climb to an intercept and fire off it's two, rather dated, missiles. Compared to the fire control in the F-102, F-106, or F-4, all contemporaries, it was limited. This doesn't take away from the fact that it broke new ground in some areas.
Why are you turning this into an anti-American tirade? Can't you debate things on its merits without attacking the person that's offering a counter point? You can't stand someone questioning everything you blame Americans for...and really, how do you even know I'm an American? Because I used a couple of American aircraft to refute your comments?
Look I'm done here, you dont rate the Lightning and I do.
The F-22/35/117 have stealth from the same guy, Google these words.
Great short video documentary here on stealth featuring Allan Brown, Lockheed Martin's program manager and chief engineer for the F-117 stealth fighter.
See whos making USA's stuff for them and is called the father of stealth - A Brit. We helped you with much of your earlier stuff that youre bragging about now.
@kfeltenberger The Red Top Missile even at the time of the Lightnings retirement out performed the AIM-9 in operational service in seeker & tracking, flight control, and warhead. The Firestreak had had its day by then for sure.The F-102 was barely supersonic with very limited armament comparative to the Lightning. The F-106 is an admirable aircraft and directly comparable in many ways with the Lightning. The F-4 was designed as a Navy missile platform the Lightning was not.
I think Lightnings mixed it up with F-102's in exercises over Europe in the 60's - and in tight turning fights ,the EEL's (as one RAF pilot put it ) "wiped arse" regularly
@kfeltenberger and the F-102 was under powered, plagued by radar / fire control issues, had stability issues, aircrew ejection issues, could NOT fly supersonic unless it was pretty much unarmed and low fuel weight. The Lightning flew "right" straight out of the box with minimal alterations. The F-102 is a very bad example to hold against the Lightning.
Why are there a few people leaving comments on how great the french Mirage was? Are they forgetting that they were shot out of the sky in the Falklands war by a much slower jet called the HARRIER.They must be FRENCH to leave such comments because they cant accept how great the british are.And one more thing the 4 greatest aircraft ever built are 1)SPITFIRE, 2)LANCASTER BOMBER, 3)LIGHTNING, 4)HARRIER. And all powered by Rolls Royce. Nuff said.
The Argentines were at the limit of their endurance and didn't have the GCI that the Harriers possessed by virtue of the fleet's radar coverage. Any aircraft with enough fuel to make one or two passes before reaching bingo is going to be at a decided disadvantage.
And err, like being 8000 miles from home in winter seas and America wussing out with the "ALLY" help as usual (not letting us fly from America but you were already flying from Britain even had bases) these aren't disadvantages for Britain either).
is that rocket assist on takeoff ?
13jam100 1 month ago in playlist More videos from ispiffey
This has been flagged as spam show
@13jam100
Nope, just pure awesomeness.
otester 2 weeks ago
... I'm sorry guys but...F104 rulez!
blumax68 1 month ago
@blumax68 the lightning battered the 104 in the tests they did in every accel and climb test they did bar 1. that was a draw lol
ps the lightning could pull 13gs too
eatthisvr6 1 month ago in playlist Airplanes
@blumax68
The F104 wasnt called the flying coffin for no reason!
ToonandBBfan 3 weeks ago
Brilliant
johnbulpin 2 months ago
FANTASTIC!
JIM30747 2 months ago
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH go get a job
wank0r 7 months ago
Fantastic!
bgibb101 8 months ago
I saw a lighting skid on its tail go vertical and disappear upwards this thing was fast .
simonsrd100 9 months ago
intense aircraft. my favorite as a boy and to be honest, still my favorite now. Lets just save the bickering, we are all one species that build our technologies on ideas given to us from many nationalities, let's just marvel at what we can accomplish and what is yet to be made.
iliketojumplargeobje 10 months ago
Jesus, someone needs to get a life.
r1cw 1 year ago
As usual, as an American, you cannot help but wildly over play & exaggerate relatively minor disorder, and somehow compare it to a scene from Dante's Inferno. Over dramatising matters to the point of panic, is an national character trait of Americans. For example, Air Force One performed a low flight over NYC a couple of years ago, and the residents ran around flapping, terrified that a second 9/11 was in progress. Americans cannot do calm collect phlegmatism, they just panic. Pathetic.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH And as a Brit, you appease aggression and play the Ostrich in the face of terminal savagery, a trait you have dragged along with you since Chamberlain, hence your society now being in its current decrepit condition. I visited the Czech Republic recently and a taxi driver in Prague told me that he refuses to carry British passengers, they are routinely drunk and violent. Your laziness and lack of social pride define you as a people, and your society merely reflects that.
WinchesterRanger 1 year ago
@WinchesterRanger Meanwhile, back in the Utopian US, with your street gang & drug culture, Uzi drive by shootings, huge racial tensions, burgeoning Mexican illegal immigrant population, excessive emphasis on firearms for 'home defence,' etc. I won't mentioning the huge poverty levels that are swept under the carpet, the redneck trailer trash culture, & the vast numbers of people who are illiterate & the millions who have no healthcare provision. I won't mention your national debt of trillions!
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH And now you show the typical British ignorance towards life in the US. I have lived for many years in both countries, have you? No, probably just 2 weeks in Florida with your drunken, cynical brethren. Having experienced both, there is no comparison. The UK is dismal and soul-sapping, here in the US people love life, the people I knew in the UK complained incessantly, with cause. As for firearms, our government trusts us with them, yours does not, which speaks volumes.
WinchesterRanger 1 year ago
@WinchesterRanger The US government doesn't really trust us with firearms but fortunately the Constitution does. I've been living here in the US for 11 years but still go back to visit family in the UK regularly - man it has really changed over the past decade...and not for the better! Having said that - the US is, unfortunately progressively heading in the same direction. Generally it seems that people are being taught that they are no longer responcible for there own actions - blame others!
tomburley 11 months ago
@tomburley I've been here for exactly 10 years so we have a lot in common. I used to go back to the UK to visit family, but I stopped going about 3 years ago, I can't even stand to visit the place any more, it's a real cess pool these days, and even one week was too much for me, what with the crowds, the drunks, the routine night time violence, and the insane prices. The sheer quality of life in the US is amazing, I could never leave, I only miss the food and the countryside, nothing else.
WinchesterRanger 11 months ago
@WinchesterRanger I know what you mean. Of course I still retain a lot of respect for the Britan I remember - I'm sure there are several decent people still there. But boy has it changed in the past 10 yrs - and not for the best.
There are some areas of wonderful "English" countryside in areas of the US - not quite as easy to find though'.
Resolved almost all of my English food issues by either online shopping or from the British stores scattered across the States - Bangers & Mash tonight!
tomburley 11 months ago
@WinchesterRanger
And yet you have left literally hundreds of pathetic (even more pathetic than naming yourself for a type of ammunition) trolling messages on UK military videos. Very telling.
Shame about the food. Still, one day an enterprising Brit will stock up and allow you to chug down a gallon-sized jug of corn syrup, & other quality American foods that come in plastic receptacles that most countries would only consider appropriate for holding 2-stroke fuel.
Can you not fuck off again?
beastatlay 11 months ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH Correction - No one in the USA goes without healthcare treatment for emergency care - it's just that about 15% of the population doesn't pay for it so the hospitals and individual States have to write off the cost or pick up the tab. What US healthcare insurers provide is a vastly higher level of healthcare than is offered by the NHS - I think youare now comparing apples to oranges.
tomburley 11 months ago
@WinchesterRanger Yes we have a tradition of appeasing other nations don't we? That must be why we have the most colourful & successful military history of ANY nation. I don't remember the British government appeasing the Chinese in Korea, the communists in Malaya, Borneo or Oman, the Mau Mau in Kenya, or the IRA in Northern Ireland. I don't remember Mrs Thatcher 'appeasing' the Argentinians in 1982. Perhaps you should look up the definition of, 'appease.'
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH You're living in the past again, the latest Wikileaks documents show that the Afghans were shocked at the poor performance of your troops in Helmand, who were also caught requesting USAF CAS in preference to RAF support, and don't even get me started on RAF performance in the Gulf War, it was beyond dismal. And now we learn that the terrorist bomber Al Megrahi was released to ensure good business relations with Libya. Look at what you are, not what you were.
WinchesterRanger 1 year ago
@WinchesterRanger Dismal performance? How ironic. Evidently Gen Petraeus doesn't think so. He made a personal visit to 3 Para in Helmand this last week to personally thank them for killing so many Taliban in recent weeks. The fact that the Taliban no longer engage in the open against British forces says it all. Everytime they have done so, they have been punished heavily, frequently on the end of a bayonet, something US soldiers don't like using.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH I'm afraid you're choosing to believe the public face and not the cofidential message. Both the Afghans and US forces have been exposed as lamenting the performance of the British troops. Petraeus will not be seen to crticize the performance of any foreign troops in theater - it would be political suicide. But it matters little to me, I'm not here to dump on your military, they are what they are, good or bad, it's more your ill-founded bigotry that got us started.
WinchesterRanger 1 year ago
@WinchesterRanger Please do evidence your remark about the performance of the RAF in the Gulf. I will take great pleasure in shredding your argument. The USAF lived upto it's usual reputation in GW1. Would you like to discuss the two imbecile A-10 pilots who killed eight British troops & destroyed two Warrior APC displaying the allied orange roof marker panels. During the Kosovo crisis, the USAF killed far more civilians, than it did Serbian combatants-thereby breaching the Geneva Convention.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH The inability of your Tornado F3s to operate in forward areas because they lacked modern IFF and had questionable survivability against Iraqi MiG 29s, the high loss rates associated with the failed British tactic of low level airfield attacks using the JP233 dispenser and your embarassing reversion to high level attacks with the hurried introduction of Buccaneers as designator aircraft using US supplied kit to "put on a show" and save some face. But I have no interest in this
WinchesterRanger 1 year ago
@WinchesterRanger The Tornado F3 is an interceptor, not an air superiority fighter, so you are comparing apples with oranges. Secondly, I suggest you research the sucess that RAF F3 Tornado's have enjoyed in ACM exercises against the USAF in the US. They have regularly given an extremely good account of themselves. Thirdly, how many MIG 29's shot down Tornado's? NONE. Changing tactics in war is natural, if the theory does not work in practise, you do not 'save face,' you evolve.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH The Tornado is a good all round plane - not a master of any one role - It was a bit of luck that the Buccaneer was still in service during the Gulf war as it acted as the laser designator aircraft for the Tornados since they didn't have on board laser designators....bit of a handicap to be honest!
tomburley 11 months ago
@WinchesterRanger Perhaps you would like to discuss the incident whereby trigger happy, nervous US soldiers fired a SAM & shot down an RAF Tornado down that was making it's final approach to land at an allied airbase in GW2. Both aircrew were killed as a consequence. Yet another example of excessive gung-ho antics from flapping Yanks. Talk about unprofessional. I would have thought that aircraft recognition should be a high priority for SAM equipped soldiers in a war zone.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@WinchesterRanger Ah yes, those paragons of all things military, the AFGANS, have been critical about the Brits.Gee that hurts. NOT. Al Megrahi released- shocking. Incidentally, what disciplinary/legal action was brought against the Captain of the US destroyer that 'accidentally' blew an Iranian airliner out the sky, killing hundreds in the mid-late 1980's? Was he put on trial, convicted & jailed for gross incompetance? Or was it all just swept under the carpet? KETTLE CALLING POT BLACK.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH You conveniently neglected to mention both Chamberlain in 1939 and Palestine in 1922 both brilliant examples of appeasement.
tomburley 11 months ago
@tomburley Chamberlain 'appeased' Hitler in 38 at the Munich conference. The traditional view that Chamberlain was naive & believed he had achieved, "Peace in our time," is very inaccurate. In the last decade, historians have acquired direct access to his personal papers & letters. It is quite clear from them that Chamberlain's sole intent at Munich was to actually buy Britain time to prepare for a war that he knew was inevitable. He bought Britain eighteen months in order to prepare for war.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 11 months ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH At the expense of Poland and Czechoslovakia.
Also - in the last decade the wonderful Progressive Socialists have been busy rewriting history in a way that is so inaccurate it won't be long before people are taught that Germany only went to war to defend itself and America tricked Japan into attacking Pearl Harbour! - Yes you can be sure I believe all the new "revised" history!!!
tomburley 11 months ago
@tomburley In reality, there was no effective military aid or option available to Britain to support Czechoslovakia or Poland. RAF Bomber Command was miniscule in 1938/9 & totally unprepared and ill equipped to mount any effective offensive action in support of either nation. How easy it is to argue that more should have been done. In the real world there was no effective military option available to Britain in 1938/9. One nation is certainly in no position to point the finger at the UK- the US!
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 11 months ago
Barely adequate fuel, minimal weapons, a nightmare to maintain, and sold only to the lickspittle Saudis and Kuwaitis. The true genius of design from that era was the Mirage III/5/50. When once asked by the authorities to shoot down an errant weather balloon, the commander of an F.3 squadron had to respond that he didn't have any weapons that would work against it. Oh yes, the mighty Lightning, fast, but largely useless as a combat aircraft.
WinchesterRanger 1 year ago
@WinchesterRanger An innane remark. The F3, unlike the F1 & F2, had it's cannon removed initially & was missile armed only. This was duly reversed after objections from the RAF & cannon were reinstated. The EEL could outperform the Mirage 3 in just about every area, The US has it's own white elephant- the laughable F-22. It was intended to be developed over 9 years, 86-96, it has taken 21 yrs to produce an aircraft with appalling servicability- 34 hrs maintainance for every 2.4 hours of flight.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@WinchesterRanger The F-22 has proven to be one of the most disasterous DoD projects in US history. It has cost 65 billion dollars to develope, unit cost works out around 354 million dollars. Originally the USAF planned 748 ac, 183 have been built & the project cancelled by Obama. Of the 183, 83 are operational, 41 are grounded due to CORROSION & 59 'retracted' due to cracks & defects in their airframes. In 2001 F22 flew less than 0.6 hours between maintainance
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@WinchesterRanger In 2007, the F22 still flew less than one hour for every maintainance period required. It's servicability is an absolute joke. After much mocking & sneering about the Eurofighter, the USAF had to eat a huge portion of humble pie. In a NATO ACM exercise, 2 RAF Typhoons embarassed the F-22 by achieving a high number of 'kills' beyond visual range. Isn't so called 'stealth' technology wonderful? On day 2 of the Ex, from some strange reason, the USAF cancelled the Ex. ROFL
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@WinchesterRanger The US has developed an utter failure of an aircraft, to the tune of nearly 70 billion $. US has compounded this by developing another lame duck at huge cost, the Joint Strike Fighter. It has been openly criticised from all sides at it's inability to meet ANY of it's key primary performance criteria. No doubt Uncle Sam will reverse this piss poor performance. In the words of WInston Churchill, " The Americans ALWAYS find the right solution after trying EVERYTHING else first."
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@AmFearLiathMor The Frightnings were retired in 1988 mate :)
Ecthaelyon 1 year ago
fire birds eat your heart out! They were doing this in 1963
xfire7 1 year ago
It's like a delta with a notch cut out.
childsca 1 year ago
What an Ugly looking aircraft! it looks a lot like a Mig 21 with 2 engines.
CreoleCommando 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@CreoleCommando You have no class
digireedoo 1 year ago
Slow getting into supersonic fighters? The plans for this aircraft were on the drawing board in 1947!
ianrkav 1 year ago 2
A Fine Aircraft.
AndyB1968 1 year ago 2
the yanks nicked our sound barrier tek off us but they needed a rocket to do it,lol, we wre ready to do it with a jet engine, but even our old jets still beat theres,lol, frank whittle rules ok,
splez4 2 years ago 5
@splez4 Correct! The Miles M52 was designed to break the barrier. The Yanks offered a deal to the UK gov, you give us all your research data, and your top guys can come to the US & work on a joint project. The UK gov handed over the research data & guess what? Three weeks later the Yanks pulled the plug on the deal. We were streets ahead of them in research. IE We discovered the need for a moving/tilting elevator in order to maintain full control at high speed in 1943. It was a disgrace.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH The All Moving Elevator of which Chuck Yeager loves to boast that the US invented and took us Brits a decade to figure out how it worked.... Whilst I have a lot of American friends, good friends, Gentlemen all, the US does have a warped sense of history and fact sometimes, guess it must be the Hollywood syndrome... O.o
Ecthaelyon 1 year ago
@Ecthaelyon No, I disagree, it's SHEER BLOODY IGNORANCE, coupled with EXTREME ARROGANCE. Most Americans know nothing of the Miles M52, or the fact that the British invented the fully moving elevator in 1943. The Americans were way behind us in terms of sound barrier research. They caught up through sheer treachery by lying to the UK government & offering a joint research project, in return for our top secret research. Frankly, over the last ten years, I have grown to despise the Americans.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH Isn't history repeating itself with the F-35 crock of poop? How much have we paid into that BS project, how much Tech have we put into it and how much Tech sharing have we been given in return? In US terminology... Zip. I have to admit in sharing some of the strong feelings regarding US business practices as you do. Bring back the British and Canadian Aero Industries and let us go back to the good old days, at least we still have friends in the great white north.
Ecthaelyon 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH While you whine piteously about us supposedly stealing "elevator technology" from you, I note no mention of you giving fully constructed jet turbines to the Soviets which they promptly copied - at least we were your allies, and let's not mention British espionage that resulted in the loss of our nuclear secrets to the same mutual enemy. Enjoy your hatred as your once proud nation sails into the abyss of terminal social decay. Britain is finished.
WinchesterRanger 1 year ago
@WinchesterRanger Oh please, do not compare the somewhat naive post-war diplomacy of Atlee's government with the deceiptful behaviour of the US re the sound barrier. Social decline? Evidently you cannot see the splinter in my eye, for the plank of 4 x 2 wood in your own! The US INVENTED social decline in the West! Decadent, soft lifestyles, too much reliance on push button technology, excessive consumption in ALL areas, food, natural resouces etc. Don't scoff-the Chinese will steal your crown :)
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH You exhibit all the typical traits of your arrogant breed, selectively dismissing inconvenient truths about the leaking and downright free distribution of the most advanced technological information to your own enemies in favor of desperate attempts to somehow diminish US successes. Now as we watch your cities burn and your royalty come under attack in the streets, not to mention your feral youth and failing economy, you'll forgive us a chuckle.
WinchesterRanger 1 year ago
@WinchesterRanger Arrogance? Umm, I must say, that is one area where most Americans excel. I have not denied that Attlee's government acted foolishly when they handed the Russian's the latest Rolls Royce jet engine. That was an open & honest, if stupid piece of diplomacy. What the US government did in order to obtain British sound barrier research was extremely duplicious. Failure to recognise the massive British contribution, whilst claiming ALL the glory merely compounds the act of duplicity.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH You know, you really do need some cheese with that whine. India and China I respect, they don't moan about past misdeeds, they simply get on with progressing and growing their societies, you and your ilk only seem capable of complaining about some obscure piece of intellectual property that you claim was stolen from you. Your nation is broken, you would best exert your efforts in looking forward and trying to resolve that situation, the past holds little future for you.
WinchesterRanger 1 year ago
@WinchesterRanger Ah! Such sparkling wit! Not. Enjoy the next 15-20 years as the world's leading superpower, by 2025, the US will have to listen to China. By 2030-5 China will exceed US GDP. It's all over for the US of A, but you are all too myopic, ignorant & enthnocentric to see what is coming over the horizon. American's don't like coming second do they? My, my, won't you all have a huge reality check in the next couple of decades.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH Spoken by someone who spends his weekends complaining how "Americans stole our elevator design !!". You people have been told that the Chinese takeover is both inevitable and a good thing, I hear this a lot from Brits who seem to relish the prospect like a Turkey looking forward to Christmas. There's a large cemetary just outside of Cambridge you should visit, but it's not filled with dead Chinese soldiers. Think about that the next time you profess your hatred of Americans.
WinchesterRanger 1 year ago
@WinchesterRanger Sarcasim, the lowest form of wit. Better luck next time with the banal insults. Back to the adult world now- re China, you seem to be implying that China's rise to the top of the tree is NOT inevitable? Interesting, even Obama's administration was very quick to openly acknowledge that by 2025, the playing field will have changed completely, with China coming to the fore as a superpower. Thanks for lecturing me about US cemetries, I've seen plenty of massive British & CW ones.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH You haven't seen those British military cemetaries in America though have you, that's the point, you hate the US but thousands of my countrymen died protecting you - get it? probably not, you've already consumed the Kool Aid. The US "may" falter in 2025, but I doubt it, we're too much or a powerhouse, what's more to the point is that your nation has already failed. Grossly over-crowded, a basket case financially with a crumbling infrastructure, and now street riots. Happy?
WinchesterRanger 1 year ago
@WinchesterRanger You are too myopic to appreciate the situation the US is in today. Ironically, your position matches that of Britain at the turn of the 19th/20th century. We were still the foremost manufacturing nation in the world, but the US was closing the gap rapidly. China is doing exactly the same thing to the US as we speak. If anybody has Osterich syndrome, it's the US, your own comment aptly highlights this point, "we're too much of a powerhouse." Very smug, VERY naive.....
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH Time will tell, but I should listen to the advice of someone who resides in a nation that has already failed, I think not. The US has the ability, the manufacturing capability, and the sheer dynamic energy to work its way out of any problem, that's my assessment, and if it comes across as smug then so be it. The UK on the other hand is crippled, just take a look at the other videos on this site - you only have your hatred and memories of past greatness, nothing else.
WinchesterRanger 1 year ago
@WinchesterRanger Point of fact, by the time the US deployed the USAAF to Britain in early 42, any danger of a German invasion had long since passed. You would do well to appreciate the significance of the Battle Of Britain-it ended ANY potential invasion hopes. By 43, Germany was already on a backfoot, having lost in the Western Desert, endured the diasaster of defeat at Stalingrad in Dec 42. USAAF ops were offensive, not defensive. The word 'HATE' appears in your posts, not mine..
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH Obama admits this because he is focused on it being so - He does not want the US to be a powerful nation - he and his administation are actively working to make the US poorer and weaker so that Countries like China and India start to get wealth parity. He has this progressive view that everyone in the world should have the same...rather like the communist attitude and we all know how successful that's been.
PS Chinese steal US & UK technology constantly!
tomburley 11 months ago
@tomburley Somehow, I doubt Obama wishes to deliberately weaken the position of the US in the world. The sad fact is, the US has reached it's peak and is now on the way down. It is interesting to note that in the late 60's, the US funded a massively expensive war in Vietnam & a hugely expensive space programme. Now to all intents & purposes, the US space programme is virtually stillborn, Obama having slashed the budget. China is now the second largest economy & growing at a very rapid rate.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 11 months ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH You can 'doubt' what you want but if you actually openned your eyes and studied his policies etc you'd be blind not to see. China is rapidly gobbling up the worlds resources but has done nothing to contribute to advancement in anything other than destablising world markets and supplies.
tomburley 11 months ago
@tomburley It matters not one jot what, if any advancement China has given the world, she will undoubtedly eclipse the US as the world's largest economy within 15 years given the current rate of growth of her economy. With economic power comes military power. Based on numerous discussions I have had on YT with Americans, the vast majority of them simply refuse to acknowledge the possibility of the US being eclipsed by China. Collectively they have their heads buried in the sand.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 11 months ago
@WinchesterRanger I am still waiting for you to confirm how many US Presidents have either been assassinated, or have been subject to attempted assassinations.Laziness? The Americans invented the word and soft living. TV dinners? Couch potato culture? Highest obesity levels in the world? Push button society? The hallmarks of a morally bankrupt, weak society. I have witnessed first hand the US army's concept of living in the field on exercise. It is laughable- & reflects on your soft society.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH Sure I'll play, we've had 4 killed, plus one congressman, with 20 attempts in total - now you reciprocate and tell me how many UK politicians have been assasinated or were the victims of attempted assasination in the UK since 1865. As for laziness, US workers consistenly and routinely outwork their UK counterparts as demonstrated by official figures (1777 versus 1652 hours per annum) your anecdotes reflect only your self-confessed bias, not facts.
WinchesterRanger 1 year ago
@WinchesterRanger Grubby politicians are not the head of state in Britain, that is the role of monarchy. The fact that to date, no assassination has occurred speaks volumes. Those few politicians that have been murdered in the UK, were killed by terrorist groups such as the IRA/INLA. In the US, assassins tend to be socially dysfunctional losers with a penchant for guns. Again, that is just a reflection on US culture & it's obsession with firearms. Too many John Wayne films me thinks......
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH So now you realise that you were hoist on your own petard, having failed to post the actual figures, which of course are massively higher than the US numbers. As for royalty you also forget the assasination of Earl Mountbatten, resorting instead to childish and oh so predictable John Wayne barbs. I have systemically destroyed every single one of your hate filled arguments with facts. You are a void, a loudmouth with nothing to offer but your bigotry. I pity you.
WinchesterRanger 1 year ago
@WinchesterRanger As I said in my post, assassinations of political figures in Britain have been perpetrated by TERRORISTS, not dysfunctional, firearms obsessed citizens. To the IRA, Mountbatten WAS a political target. Clearly you do not read too well, or assimilate a simple point. You have not hoisted anybody on their own petard, you have shown yourself incapable of understanding a simple point. The fact that CITIZENS carry out assassinations, reflects on US society extremely badly.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH The US has citizens and the UK has 'subjects' - based on your own observation about the Monarchy being the head of State.
A Citizen can elect the head of the government - often they elect a bad head of government but 4 yrs later they can elect someone else. In the UK you, as a subject or psuedo citizen, get one vole for your local member of parliment - no choice in who will be Prime Minister - Government calls the date of election and the Monarchy remains. Now who's free?
tomburley 11 months ago
@tomburley You appear confused. The UK electoral system is based on a first past the post system. The individual's vote counts just as it does in the US. The monarch is apolitical and has no direct role in government, what it does is provide the UK with a head of state that is above mere grubby politics. Look around the world at nations with Presidential systems- France & Italy- both nations have had corrupt politicians as their respective heads of state-look at Italy currently- Berlusconi! lol
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 11 months ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH I'm not confused - you assume I am not familiar with the UK voting system - I was born in the UK and lived there for nearly 40 yrs. FACT - in the UK you vote solely for your local MP and you don't even get any say in who stands as your MP. Of course British MPs are not corrupt at all are they?
tomburley 11 months ago
@tomburley The point is, you vote for the MP that represents the party whose politics you believe in. By voting for your local candidate, you are voting by proxy for the leader you prefer. I never denied that corruption exists in British politics, it most certainly does. That is the VERY point I was making when I pointed out the advantage of an apolitical head of state, they are above grubby politics and the corruption associated with it.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 11 months ago
@WinchesterRanger You have the temerity to talk of the Royal's coming under attack. As usual, the US penchant for wild exaggeration rises its head. (Thank goodness the US never faced the Blitz in WW2.) Half a dozen misguided halfwits throwing a tin of paint & smashing a window on a Rolls Royce, hardly equates to a revolution does it? Incidentally, how many US presidents have either been assassinated, or faced attempted assassination attempts? Yes, the US is a Utopian paradise isn't it?! ROFL
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH Your facade is beginning to crack. It's not just the riots, and you know that, it's your economy, your failing education system, your failing infrastructure, your over-population, your asylum seeker issues, your out of control Muslim population, your unemplyment rates, the fact that you have the highest teen pregnancy rates in Europe, the recent UN study that showed the UK to be the world's most violent first world nation - it's everything, you're in terminal decline.
WinchesterRanger 1 year ago
@WinchesterRanger Umemployment rates? Ah! You jest with me sir! The US unemployment rate has just reached an alarming TEN PERCENT, so I wouldn't crow too loudly. You point out the splinter in my eye, whilst you have a plank of wood in your own. Asylum problems? Would you like to discuss the illegal Mexican immigrant problem in the US? Projected figures suggest that you will swamped in coming years due to the alarming birth rate amongst Mexican immigrants.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@WinchesterRanger In 2010, we in the UK have experienced some relatively minor student deomonstrations that passed off without any fatalities. In the late 1960's, the US pitched National Guard units against students & they opened fire killing numerous demonstrators. How VERY American, usual lack of discipline & restraint. The Muslim population? I will start getting seriously concerned when Muslim army Majors open fire on their own soldiers in barracks.....You know all about that in the US.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH To be fair the UK didn't have the same issue regarding color segragation but then the US hasn't had to deal with a 30 year civil war between Catholics & Protestants.
Of course in the UK the military doesn't permit soldiers to carry ammunition - it is issued for live fire exercises only - it's a good way to ensure soldiers don't shoot each other!
tomburley 11 months ago
@tomburley Aside from live fire training, why else would you have troops carrying live rounds unnecessarily? Having been over to the US on a military exchange, & participated in live fire exercises, I can only say that British training is far superior and far more realistic than that of the US inf. US live fire ranges are a health & safety nightmare. It was quite apparent to me that US soldiers simply are not trusted to handle live exercises safely, they are excessively supervised & controlled.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 11 months ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH Now you're quoting "Health and Safety" next you'll be suggesting that War is dangerous and that there should be Health & Safety regulations that must be met before soldiers can engauge the enemy....Obama wanted US soldiers to read miranda rights to enemy combatants before, during and after every engaugement - taking his idea from EEC suggestions!
tomburley 11 months ago
@WinchesterRanger I am still waiting for your reposte on the 10% rate of unemployment in the US. Failed education system? Don't make me laugh. How many million Americans are illiterate? Approximately 30 MILLION out of a population of 150-160 million. lol People from all over the globe fight tooth & nail to get into Oxford, Cambridge & a plethora of other British universities & Public schools. You talk of decline, the US leads the way in social decline, you are just too myopic to see it.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 1 year ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH US population is over 315 million - and that doesn't include several million illegals! Not really sure why you are proud of Oxford/Cambridge - certainly most of the Universities in the UK...most of which were polytechnics until a few years ago have as many illiterate students as most modern colleges - anywhere. The whole world (yes UK and USA included) has started to produce a generation of self centered selfish people..."The entitlement Generation"
tomburley 11 months ago
@tomburley You are wrong to assert that most British universities were polytechnics until a few years ago. The vast majority of universities have always been so. Oxford & Cambridge are the finest universities on the globe-hence individuals from all over the world fight tooth & nail to gain entry. "The entitlement generation," are predominantly found in western/capitalist nations- they are a bi-product of consumerism, much wants more- VERY shallow, VERY sad individuals.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 11 months ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH I am NOT wrong - In the mid 90's the UK reclassified Polytechnics as Universities - thus nearly quadrupling the number of "Universities" Oxford and Cambridge are well past there prime but still highly acclaimed Universities....as are Harvard, Yale and Princeton. I'm not saying that any one is better than the others on either side of the pond. You surely must agree that the level of education today is not as balanced as it was 30 to 40 years ago?
tomburley 11 months ago
@tomburley I would agree with you that the standard of education has fallen generally. There are a plethora of reasons, in conjunction to standards being watered down to accomodate the less intelligent, people barely read these days. They are obsessed with computers & gadgets at the expense of reading quality books. I have a large collection of books on my shelves at home. My job entails me entering other people's houses on a regular basis, I rarely see a book on display in most houses.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 11 months ago
@tomburley No, the reclassification of certain polytechnics did not 'quadruple' the number of British universities. And 'one is better than the others on either side of the pond'. Members of just one British university, that of Cambridge, have won more Nobel Prizes than the entire academic community of the United States of America put together. And the word 'their', incidentally, is a homophone for 'there' but is not spelt the same.
TheMarkXIV 2 months ago
@TheMarkXIV OK - let me rephrase my statement then...It nearly quadrupled the number of available "university" places available for students. As for Nobel prizes being offered up as a validation of one institution being better than another, that has to be one of the most stupid statements ever. Firstly it is totally inaccurate - highest placed is Columbia Uni. with 96 second is Cambridge with 88 and third is Uni of Chicago with 87. .....more....
tomburley 2 months ago
@TheMarkXIV Secondly since some of the winners of Nobel prizes are Kofi Annan, Jimmy Carter and Barack Obama you do really have to question how political the organization is surely?
tomburley 2 months ago
@tomburley Ah, well, I only know three Nobel Prize winners - two for Literature, one for Economics, that one at Columbia, oddly enough - so I'm probably not up to speed. The Peace Prize is something of a political odd-one-out and is not awarded at the same ceremony or even in the same country as the others (though it is on the same night).
TheMarkXIV 2 months ago
@TheMarkXIV PS - yes, thank you for pulling me up on the misuse or rather incorrect spelling of 'there' - quite right of you - it should have been 'their' as it refers to a possessive. - I trust that you accept my other replies in the same spirit of accuracy.
tomburley 2 months ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH It wasn't really a treacherous deal - The UK did get a fair bit of write down of the war debt along with the deal so, technically the UK sold the US its research - partly because the UK could not afford to continue the development research on its own.
tomburley 11 months ago
@tomburley I beg to differ. Lend Lease crippled the UK economy for decades after the war. We only finished servicing the debt FOUR years ago. The US was extremely cynical, it saw the opportunity to effectively cripple the UK & seize a dominant role in the world for itself. ONE country emerged from WW2 having made a huge profit out of it, the US. Everybody else was financially burnt out. Secondly, the UK did NOT sell it's speed of sound research, the US blatantly lied in order to obtain it.
LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH 11 months ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH So the US should have foot the bill for Britain then? And the US should not have invested in rebuilding Germany either - or Japan? Did any Country offer to pay the US to assist them? No. The US came to the aid of the British and the "Lend Lease act" didn't cover even 50% of the total aid that the US provided. I'm proud that the British actually repaid in full....no one else did!
America didn't get rich off WW2 - some corporations did as well as financial groups - both US & UK
tomburley 11 months ago
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH I said 'technically" it sold research - not in terms of dollars or pounds - it was understood that it would be shared. As it was also "understood" that Britain would dissolue it's Empire and give Countries that it ruled over the option of establishing stand alone rule.
tomburley 11 months ago
I wonder why no other aircraft used that wing-type?
CVKent317 2 years ago
@CVKent317 Lack of space for fuel and weapons hard points may have been a big factors.
Ecthaelyon 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Pretty on paper and a joy to fly, but with barely enough fuel and on many versions an armament of just 2 IR homing missiles of highly questionable effectiveness, it was just as well the Frightening never saw actual combat.
WinchesterRanger 2 years ago
0-200 mph in 12 seconds!!!!
0-50,000ft in 3 minutes
it was the only aircraft that ever intercepted a u2 the lightning dived on it from 88,000ft!!!!!!! lol
it was also the 1st aircraft to supercruise (maintain mach 1+ without using afterburner) DECADES before the raptor or typhoon could do it (concord supercruised at mach2!!)
it was also the only aircraft ever to intercept a concord from the rear none of the american aircraft manedged it
in short it was absolutely incredible and still is :)
eatthisvr6 2 years ago 16
We need the boffins to crack out a modern-day equivalent of this kit for ourselves.
xNeverthought 2 years ago
they kinda have with the typhoon
eatthisvr6 2 years ago
Sort of, but there is always room for improvement.
xNeverthought 2 years ago
Let's not get too overzealous with our Wikipedia-ing.
No lightning ever "dived" on a U2 from 88,000ft. Hale burned to top speed and executed a ballistic climb. He reached the U2 at 88,000 right before he stalled. U2 was never intended to be fast, it was designed to be invisible. Hale was told where his target was and instructed to try and reach it while the U2 did nothing.
Even then, that was in 1984. No one was impressed being that Mig 25's had already reached 120,000+ft in the late 70's.
gakornegay 2 years ago
Don't get me wrong, Lightning was a great platform, and BAC has come up with some amazing (though sometimes impractical) equipment.
Just trying to provide some context to previous comments.
Carry on.
gakornegay 2 years ago
gakornegay
You should come over to Warton and come out with your shit about the EE Lightning, you'll soon learn what it feels like to fly to 50,000 feet in one minute.
snoopy9949 1 year ago
@snoopy9949
Er, what's it got to do with Warton, all bar about half a dozen Lightnings were built at Samlesbury
muscluva 1 year ago
@muscluva Er, what's it got to do with Warton, are you having a joke? Do you not know it was designed and tested at Warton.
snoopy9949 1 year ago
@gakornegay In fairness, to add some context to the debate ;) The U2 wouldnt have been able to do anything about theLightning whether it was climbing or diving. The U2 at that altitude would have been powerless to make any move out of the way. The Lightning did not stall, the pilot bunted before he lost airflow to the flying controls. The U2 was FAR, FAR from being invisible and it was NOT designed to be. It flew, what the US hoped, out of the range of interceptors and SAM's.
Ecthaelyon 1 year ago
Respond to this video...The U2 did nothing as it had no idea the Lightning was fast approaching. The Mig-25 that held the professed records of the day was merely an airframe, it was NOT a frontline and combat operational aircraft. Step down a peg mate and let a few peeps have their day, the US isn't all that and a bag of potAto crisps... :)
Ecthaelyon 1 year ago
If the F-102A or F-106A used this kind of HOTAS system the SAGE system would have been unnecessary
CVKent317 2 years ago
What a magnificent and beautiful aircraft.
The zenith of British design & engineering from the era when we led the world.
We MUST get one flying again. They did it with a Vulcan, they can do it with a Lightning...
ShoeiBoy 2 years ago 2
Isnt this a Russian product?
vnck25 2 years ago
the Lightning, Miles.M52, Roe SR.177
or the Bell XS-1
which are you asking is a Russian product?
talpore 2 years ago
Still unimaginably impressive by todays standards!
viewson800 2 years ago 3
PART 2
They took the technological information provided by the British and began work on the Bell XS-1. The final version of the Bell XS-1 has many design similarities to the original Miles version. Also featuring the all-moving tail, the XS-1 was later known as the X-1
talpore 2 years ago
Hallo Talpore !
Thanks for the info, I didn`t know that. I just wanted to cool down some peoples tempers about USA/UK. It seems that we, the UK, USA, Aussies, Kiwis and Canadians hold this world together and its a pity when we "slag" each other over childish prejudice.
fallyb 2 years ago
Agreed!
lumbago12 2 years ago
Has anyone heard the story of Miles.M52
Britain had disclosed all its research and designs to the U.S on the promise that U.S. information would be shared the other way.The U.S. failed to disclose any information in return, stating the Pentagon had deemed the project Top Secret (NEXT PART COMING UP)
talpore 2 years ago 3
Hallo Talpore!
Perhaps the reason that the USA broke their
part of the agreement was that the then Labour
government gave the Russians 50 Ghost jet
engines as a "friendly gesture". This was later the basis for the Mig 15 powerplant. I think
most people can understand the Americans.
fallyb 2 years ago
no i think they just wanted to be first
to break the sound barrier . have you heard about the engines sold to germany
by the USA in which help develop the FW-190 who knows whats coming with hindsight
talpore 2 years ago
@fallyb the mig 15 powerplant was based on the rolls royce Nene...not the De Havilland ghost engine.
ih8v8s 1 year ago
@fallyb And that very same "spits" Labour government GAVE all the manufacturing rights, licenses and technical blue prints for our jet engines and related development to the US and later relinquished all patents on existing engines and projects... Trust me, not a lot of folk do understand the Americans in the way they would like us to...
Ecthaelyon 1 year ago 2
If only the filthy centre right filthy government body today would create similiar
USArCOWARDS 2 years ago 3
Ainda é um dos mais rápidos aviões de combate do mundo!!
omegacd3000 2 years ago
the lighting still holds climb to altitude records,maybe its avioncis were limited but only takes one missile or a couple of rounds to knock out an invading aircraft to britian.
MickeyCBR1100XX 3 years ago 5
You're blinded by nationalism and the belief that all Americans are out to snub you and anything British. What a sorry way to live life.
I never said the Lighting wasn't a good aircraft, just that it wasn't as ground breaking as you seem to think it is, and all you seem to be able to do is attack America and not refute my comments.
Perhaps you can reply without an insult or slam this time...
kfeltenberger 3 years ago
Well i will. Having seen a doc .on Bletchley Park GCHQ that told of the work to crack German codes, a woman in the last scene told of her vow of silence not to talk about the Colossus computer they built there to crack the enemy "Tunny" machine, even more devious than Enigma. She visited America some years later (still under vow) and had to listen to brash American
woman talking about a derivative computer developed in the US saying "the Brits are so far behind in stuff like this" ..Aaaggghhh !
dannybee122 3 years ago 2
if the English Electric Lightning was not ground breaking ,then google Saunders-Roe SR.177.then look on Wikipedia and read Design and development part.
the bit near the end is very intresting.
it might explain why we get a bit angry at times.
talpore 2 years ago 2
Very true,people must remember that us brits were in very big debt to america after world war 2,so we had no choice but to give them our innovations and technical 'firsts'.
joop1977 2 years ago
This is very true, if they hadnt been given everything theyd still be crossing the desert looking up the ass of a donkey.
digifotos 2 years ago 4
Why could'nt we just keep quiet about our secrets. If the Americans asked "what are you up to you Brits" we just say, "Nothing!"
viewson800 2 years ago 2
i know what you mean, we had so many awesome projects such as the TSR2 miles m.52 and SR.177. Too bad the lightning was the only one that ever made it passed the drawing board.
t0ryb00y 2 years ago
yes put a big nail in the British independent aircraft industries
but i think that was the intension
get rid of the compation and only left America and Russia in the miltary aircraft sales no one could really match them. although Britain France and Sweden have tried.and of cause the multi Eurpean
ventures.Tornado , Eurofighter,ect
talpore 2 years ago
@talpore And don't forget the mystery behind the scrapping of the Avro Arrow... O.o
Ecthaelyon 1 year ago
This vertical climbing, mach 2.0 (in 1959 but now obsolete) highly manouverable bullet was way ahead of anything.
Note for any blinkered F-22 fans, the point at 3.23 where a single rocket from the drop internal rocket pack is fired, yes again, from the INTERNAL weapon bay.
What did the F-22 pioneer again?
When was this again.. oh yes 1959 in Britain.
MegaBrits 3 years ago 2
it was also the first aircraft to super-cruise, not the F-22. it also intercepted a U-2 at 63,000 feet which the US thought was safe from intercept, and went on to 88,000 feet
fairclought7 3 years ago
Where did hear the lightning had an internal weapons bay? It barely had room in the fuselage for fuel let alone a weapons bay because of the space the engines took.
malcobot 3 years ago
Rocket packs, admittedly not a 2009 weapons bay (dont expect full length doors opening with start spangled banner blurring out), but hey, it was 1959, were you born then, I wasnt?
Did you read my posting below?
MegaBrits 3 years ago
Typo = "Start spangled banner"...
Watch front of aircraft just after at 3:20 for firing.
MegaBrits 3 years ago
@malcobot The early marks Lightnings had an internal weapons bay forward of the fuel tank literally under the aircraft's chin.
Ecthaelyon 1 year ago
Big deal, so the Lightning could climb almost straight up and had a rocket pack. The F-102 entered service in 1956 and had both rockets and guided missiles, all in internal bays. The F-94C and F-86D had internal rocket bays and they were even earlier in the 50s. Other than a rant against the F-22, what is it you were saying?
kfeltenberger 3 years ago
LOL - And once again the whole world is wrong and the over excitable American is right.
Just keep talking, talking it will become true...Lay of the E-numbers.
The EE lightning as unmatched for years and years, most say only recently.
MegaBrits 3 years ago
Typo = "The EE lightning WAS unmatched for years, most say only recently".
MegaBrits 3 years ago
My point is that the Lightning wasn't that big a deal, weapons wise, at the time as other aircraft had similar ordnance fits. You're long on insults but short on actually refuting my comments. I'm not saying the Lighting wasn't impressive, just that it wasn't unique.
kfeltenberger 3 years ago
The point I'm making is not you, AVIATION HISTORY made the EE-L a milestone, yet a yank knows better as usual.
It out climbed, to higher altitude, at higher speed for that altitude, had unique features unlike any aircraft even today (except thunderbird 1 LOL) This before considering weapons system, HOTAS etc.
The B-52 is amazing still, it didnt kill me to admit it.
I'm sick of some Yanks who
think a RR-Merlin engine COPIED by USA betters the genius RR designing in the first place.
MegaBrits 3 years ago
What does it matter where I live? The only person tossing nationalistic insults is you, not me. I've never said the Lighting wasn't a good plane, just that it wasn't the first at everything as you implied. The Lighting could do one thing well, climb to an intercept and fire off it's two, rather dated, missiles. Compared to the fire control in the F-102, F-106, or F-4, all contemporaries, it was limited. This doesn't take away from the fact that it broke new ground in some areas.
kfeltenberger 3 years ago
It is best we:
1) Agree to disagree and
2) Thank Americas lucky stars we British were decent enough to get you slow boys up to speed with jet engines and your first decent Jet fighter.
The rest is just America taking copying and then typically praising yourself for a weird hindsight intellect.
You Brits invented the wheel, but America made it more circular LOL.
MegaBrits 3 years ago
Why are you turning this into an anti-American tirade? Can't you debate things on its merits without attacking the person that's offering a counter point? You can't stand someone questioning everything you blame Americans for...and really, how do you even know I'm an American? Because I used a couple of American aircraft to refute your comments?
kfeltenberger 3 years ago
Look I'm done here, you dont rate the Lightning and I do.
The F-22/35/117 have stealth from the same guy, Google these words.
Great short video documentary here on stealth featuring Allan Brown, Lockheed Martin's program manager and chief engineer for the F-117 stealth fighter.
See whos making USA's stuff for them and is called the father of stealth - A Brit. We helped you with much of your earlier stuff that youre bragging about now.
America is a wallet - Now please leave it be.
MegaBrits 3 years ago 2
Comment removed
emilyabbie 3 years ago 2
@kfeltenberger The Red Top Missile even at the time of the Lightnings retirement out performed the AIM-9 in operational service in seeker & tracking, flight control, and warhead. The Firestreak had had its day by then for sure.The F-102 was barely supersonic with very limited armament comparative to the Lightning. The F-106 is an admirable aircraft and directly comparable in many ways with the Lightning. The F-4 was designed as a Navy missile platform the Lightning was not.
Ecthaelyon 1 year ago
I think Lightnings mixed it up with F-102's in exercises over Europe in the 60's - and in tight turning fights ,the EEL's (as one RAF pilot put it ) "wiped arse" regularly
dannybee122 3 years ago
@kfeltenberger and the F-102 was under powered, plagued by radar / fire control issues, had stability issues, aircrew ejection issues, could NOT fly supersonic unless it was pretty much unarmed and low fuel weight. The Lightning flew "right" straight out of the box with minimal alterations. The F-102 is a very bad example to hold against the Lightning.
Ecthaelyon 1 year ago
Why are there a few people leaving comments on how great the french Mirage was? Are they forgetting that they were shot out of the sky in the Falklands war by a much slower jet called the HARRIER.They must be FRENCH to leave such comments because they cant accept how great the british are.And one more thing the 4 greatest aircraft ever built are 1)SPITFIRE, 2)LANCASTER BOMBER, 3)LIGHTNING, 4)HARRIER. And all powered by Rolls Royce. Nuff said.
emilyabbie 3 years ago 3
The Argentines were at the limit of their endurance and didn't have the GCI that the Harriers possessed by virtue of the fleet's radar coverage. Any aircraft with enough fuel to make one or two passes before reaching bingo is going to be at a decided disadvantage.
kfeltenberger 3 years ago
Comment removed
emilyabbie 3 years ago
And err, like being 8000 miles from home in winter seas and America wussing out with the "ALLY" help as usual (not letting us fly from America but you were already flying from Britain even had bases) these aren't disadvantages for Britain either).
Grow up.
MegaBrits 3 years ago