In Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: So the God head is God THE FATHER, GOD THE SON, GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT three persons but ONE God. So man is made of soul, body, & spirit!even in Jewish Passover they take the matzo three pieces and take the middle and beak it which repersents Lord Jesus Christ the Bread from Heaven, the Son of Man, God(Yahweh) in the Flesh.
@webdawah becuase it says us and our likeness, Just like when Jesus was baptized, the Son then The Holy Spirit like a dove, and The Father speaking from heaven saying this is my beloved Son whom I Am well pleased and you have John chapter 1 In the beginning was the Word(Jesus), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. This shows you that God is Father, God is Son, God is Holy Spirit , God is one in three persons not three Gods.
@s25598 Let "us" make man in our image, does not specify three. Could it be less, or more? Yes.
It can actually be argued that that is the Hebrew language translated quite literally. "Us" and "we" do not always denote plural, they are sometimes used for a single entity that is revered. The other references you gave are not specific of three either.
Besides, the writings of "Paul" predated the gospels, so they may have been an influence on the writers.
the islamic picture that Jesus is only a mere human messenger. But Jesus Himself makes it perfectly clear that He is divine. Muslims attack Paul because they can't accept what Jesus taught. This video fails big time, just like islam does as a religion.
@cycler7755 How does Islam fail if it's the fastest growing religion?
The Bible does not even teach about the Trinity. The Gospels were written after the death of Paul, after his propaganda letters have spread. I did a series on the New Testament. Search for "Dubious Writings," you will learn a lot about your 'scripture.'
@webdawah It's not actually, in real terms (i.e. actual numbers) the fastest growing religion is Christianity. Furthermore, 3 times as many people convert to Christianity as Islam. Islam is growing only because of high birth rates - many Muslims had children in the last 30 years so that explain the growth. As most muslims live in poverty, and poor people generally have more children that more educated and wealthy ones, it's hardly surprising or a great achievement.
@cycler7755 The truth remains that Islam is the fastest Growing religion. I can quote Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, so that garbage excuse you are giving does not fly.
@webdawah Then how about you look at the official statistics. Christianity, PER ACTUAL NUMBERS, is growing a lot faster than Islam. IN ACTUAL NUMBERS, Christianity is the fastest growing religion in the world. There are also 3 times as many converts to Christianity as there are to Islam. Look it up!
@webdawah Yes, now look at the numbers. Forget the percentages, religions like Zoroastrianism grow faster on a percentage level than both Christianity and Islam. Look at the ACTUAL NUMBERS. Who has the largest new members per year? It's Christianity - both in real terms and in terms of conversions.
@cycler7755 Nobody is looking at the percentages. It is the numbers. If something is growing, you consider all parameters of growth. Don't try to spin it into something that favors your religion.
@webdawah I'm not. You're the one doing that. I just showed you that in actual numbers, i.e. in how many new adherents a religion gets each and every year, Christianity is the fastest growing religion in the world. By miles in fact - by many millions of adherents. Even in conversion rates, Christianity is the fastest growing religion in the world.
@cycler7755 If someone wants you to show that the fastest growing religion is, you use all parameters. Not just one, that seemingly favors your religion. You use all parameters.
@webdawah Personally, which religion is growing or not is not really that relevant to me. But it obviously is to you. So I thought that you should at least know the truth. The religion that grows the most by actual number of new adherents each and every year (by a huge margin) is Christianity. FACT
@webdawah No, because the high muslim birth rates that were the motor of the growth of the religion are now set to massively decline with the next generation. And conversions rates from Islam to Christianity are going up dramatically all over the world. This even though in Muslim majority countries there is the death penalty for coming to Christ. But people are not scared of that because they know that they are finding their way to a loving God.
@webdawah Do you even know how the Qu'ran was compiled? How it was in oral form for over 25 years and how many of the followers forgot most verses, and also many died at the battle of yamama? Did you know that at one point there were many Qu'rans, all different? Then Uthman made his own copy and burned every other document. The Uthman Qu'ran you have today is the most corrupt piece of literature in history - not only is much of the information left out but even the chronology is completely wrong
@cycler7755 I know how the Qur'an was compiled, but everything else you are saying is inaccurate. There were variant reading of the Qur'an, that's why those others were burned to erase confusion. There has been only one Qur'an, and the chronology is deliberate. Read Islamic history, and stop spreading anti-Islamic talking points.
@webdawah You don't know anything. The Uthman Qu'ran is the most corrupt piece of literature I've ever seen.
Both the information that is in it is not complete as historical records and even the hadith show, and even the chronology is badly put together. Uthman made a sloppy copy of what he could find and just quickly bundled it all together so that not more information would get lost than had already been. The Uthman Quran is a highly edited, badly composed, extremely corrupted book.
@webdawah Denial, just as I thought. Did you even bother to watch the whole clip? He BACKS IT ALL UP WITH ISLAMIC SOURCES. You cannot refute the video because IT IS ALL BACKED UP BY EVIDENCE. Check the hadith yourself, check the historical records.
@webdawah Ok, I'll show you that not only is masses of information missing from the Uthman Qu'ran but that even the chronology is wrong and illogical. Remember how the Qu'ran was in oral form first for the 23 years of revelation and several years after that. Now, Allah 'revealed' this orally to Muhammad: Quran 5:4 states: "This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion"
@webdawah had on that day completed his message, and perfected the religion.
Now obviously as the message has been completed and perfected, it will have been among the last or even the last revelation that Muhammad will have received from Allah. So logically, it should come at the very end of the Qu'ran too. But guess what? It comes in the FIRST QUARTER. Not even close to the end. That makes absolutely NO SENSE as that is impossible to be the way Allah 'revealed' it and it just shows once again
@cycler7755 The Qur'an was not meant to be arranged chronologically. Everyone who have the slightest knowledge of Islam knows that. Which goes to show that you are just a poser with no true knowledge.
@webdawah how sloppily the Uthman Qu'ran was composed. Uthman just acquired some of the information that had not yet been lost and forgotten, and ordered it to be structured in this way.
As such, not only is the information in the Uthman Qu'ran inaccurate, even the chronology is completely illogical and the sloppy work of a ruler.
As you of course know, he then burned all other documents that were not in his own copy, thereby destroying everything. The Quran you have today is a very badly and
@webdawah sloppily put together document. It is corrupted in just about every way that corruption is possible for a literary document. From leaving out and misrepresenting data, to erroneous chronology, to burning the evidence. Just awful - start to finish.
@webdawah The point is that the document you have today is not the way it was revealed (i.e. made up) by Muhammad. It is arranged completely differently. It's like I tell you a story, and then you retell it, but in a completely different order. That my friend is a form of literary corruption.
Then there's all the passages that were lost or purposefully not included. Indeed, there were 7 Qurans at one point, all different in length, style and chronology.
@webdawah Uthman then seized them all from the fellow tribes and burnt them. The Uthman Qu'ran you have today is the sloppy work of a man, where basically everything has been put together incorrectly. If there is one historical document that one can point to and clearly say 'edited, corrupted, and evidence destroyed' it is the Uthman Qu'ran.
@cycler7755 Please, educate yourself. You are barking up the wrong tree here. See what Muslims scholars says about the arrangement of the Qur'an, and Islamic history as regards the Qur'an. You will learn a lot.
@webdawah I know Muhammad hated and killed dogs for pleasure but there's no need to accuse people of barking around here. If anyone is doing that, it's you by posting this video in the first place.
I have studied Islamic history and read the Qu'ran several times and have also read the Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari Hadith. I know what I'm talking about. The Uthman Qu'ran is a corrupted book in every sense of the word. I gave you the evidence and the facts. You know yourself it's true.
@webdawah The facts are clear. Even the Hadith constantly reminds us how verses were often forgotten. Apart from missing so much information, even chronology itself of the Uthman Qu'ran is inaccurate and not the way the message was 'revealed'. The sloppy Uthman Quran is a joke - literally, it is the MOST corrupted book I have ever laid eyes on. Everything about it has been highly edited, documents destroyed etc etc. Do your research with an open mind and you'll know the truth. Peace
The Trinity is what the Bible teaches. It makes it clear that the Father is divine, that the Son is divine, and that the Holy Spirit is divine and then equates these three with one another. God is one, but in a unique way. If you use your logic then you'll realize that God is unlike anything else by His very nature - therefore, He also HAS to be one in a way that is special and unlike anything else.
Muslims hate Paul because He reaffirmed the divinity of Christ, something that doesn't fit into
Apostle Paul's teachings agree with the ministry of Jesus and others that the Jews kept not the law perfectly, and that Jesus became the propitiation for the sins of the church and the world, but additionally no scriptures were presented to support the idea that he somehow invented the trinity.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God
""Paul becomes a judge of God's law, and deems it imperfect, which automatically means that God is imperfect. I'm sorry, I don't subscribe to that"
i suggest you read thoroughly all responses to your question, some have been answered many times over...i repost this reply simply because it did not appear under your post.
Psalms 19:7 ¶The law of the LORD is perfect
God's laws are perfect but could not make the righteousness of any perfect
.....without the merit of Jesus--the only one who could keep them perfectly. Jesus proved his perfection and sinlessness under the mosaic law and his right therefore to redeem the once perfect Adam from everlasting death including all under the law and ultimately all born from the loins of Adam
@kafirrrrrrlisa Still, the Bible does not portray Jesus(pbuh) as keeping the law perfectly, neither does the Bible has any precedence of blaming the son for the sins of the father, ala blaming the rest of humanity for the sins of Adam.
@webdawah this has been thoroughly covered see a few comments down and in many many other places, you obviously don't understand or accept the bible, maybe you could search the Quran for suggestions that Jesus did not keep the mosaic law of the Torah.
Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good
2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you
2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction
Jesus a violator of the mosaic law? did the pharisees find fault in Jesus on matters of the law that would stand scrutiny? his only accusation when on trial was that he said he said was the son of God even though there is mention of many sons of God even in the Torah,neither does the Quran attempt to suggest he transgressed the ("former books"Torah) and sinned. How then in the"type" did the priests profane the sabbath and be blameless but Jesus be somehow a transgressor of the law?
@webdawah Jesus a violator of the mosaic law? did the pharisees find fault in Jesus on matters of the law that would stand scrutiny? his only accusation when on trial was that he said he said was the son of God even though there is mention of many sons of God even in the Torah,neither does the Quran attempt to suggest he transgressed the ("former books"Torah) and sinned. How then in the"type" did the priests profane the sabbath and be blameless but Jesus be somehow a transgressor of the law?
@kafirrrrrrlisa The fact that the Pharisees did not mention it does not justify it. The Pharisees were not with him 24hours a day. If that story of being out and about on Sabbath is true, that is a violation.
@webdawah neither does the Quran attempt to suggest he transgressed the ("former books"Torah) and sinned. How then in the"type" did the priests profane the sabbath and be blameless but Jesus be somehow a transgressor of the law?
@webdawah there are many interesting points worthy of note surrounding Jesus,,,Jesus is not only lord of the sabbath, but he is a priest and anti-typical mediator.... moses wrote of him you know
John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
@kafirrrrrrlisa You are unable to look at your scripture objectively, Jesus(p) did not even have his disciples with him 24 hours a day, so how would the Pharisees, or high priests know every little detail of his life?
@webdawah the light of Jesus advances as earths dark shadows flee;
John 8:12 ¶Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
neither could the Quran suggest he transgressed the ("former books"Torah) through sin, and so it is that the question remains, How then in the"type" did the priests profane the sabbath and be blameless but Jesus be somehow a transgressor of the law?
muhammed was a false prophet and the Quran has led Muslims into a deception, a false hope and expectation through a fallen angel who said that angels do not lie and have no freewill--if just that one statement be realized as false then the whole of the Quran collapses
Galatians 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
@kafirrrrrrlisa Muslims do not believe in expectations through an angel. Perhaps, you need to study the Islamic doctrine better.
Galatians 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could ..."
Is this promise given without condition? Can you sin all your life and still have eternal life, while believing in the sacrifice of Christ? No, so you are expected to live according to some guidance, but what is it? Since there's no law?
@webdawah muhammed was visited by an angel, who dictated to him, but more than likely also possessed him the angel said angels do not lie or have freewill, it is in the quran.
the law was not against the oath bound promises of God made to Abraham the mosaic law covenant was added exactly because of transgression and as an illustration that mankind cannot save themselves by righteous deeds-ultimately a lesson for all mankind. it highlighted their of their need of a saviour
@kafirrrrrrlisa The law did not stop transgression, neither did the 'sacrifice.' One generation would have been sufficient to prove to man that he cannot save himself, not tens of generations. If God is a merciful God, and can forgive transgressions, the sacrifice proves otherwise. Why does man need a savior, when he has a merciful God?
@webdawah there are many dispensations and time features in the bible Gods progressive plan has been gradually unfolding throughout the entire history of mankind from Adam to our present day there are many dispensations and associated time features.interwoven into the bible. prophesy has a set time for its fulfillment
Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure
@kafirrrrrrlisa So, your doctrine portrays a God that does not distinguish one person from another. Some people have a set of rules, and others have a set of requirements. I don't see any justice here.
@webdawah@webdawah God made a covenant with the Jews and distinguished them from the gentiles but all will ultimately be subject unto christ this is not unjust.
Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
@kafirrrrrrlisa So, your assertion is that the Jews could not keep their end of the covenant because they could not really follow the law. But God already knew this, so why get them into a covenant they would not be able to keep?
@webdawah Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Deuteronomy 18:15 ¶The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken
@webdawah: Apostle Paul was correct; the law-(although perfect) was weak through the flesh. The strength and perfection of God's laws could not be demonstrated through imperfect men neither could it make them perfect and thereby justified in God's sight. The strength of the law could be realized only through Jesus who came in the likeness of fallen flesh "and for sin"--to cancel the debt owed to divine justice by Adam and all humanity both jew and gentile born into sin from the loins of Adam.
@kafirrrrrrlisa So, you subcribe to the idea that God's law is weak? Do you have any reference from the Bible quoting God that His law is weak? What is the purpose of a weak law, a law that supposedly came from the creator of man? What laws do you live by, since God's laws are weak?
@webdawah i suggest you re-read the comment, and the scripture in order to discern what apostle Paul is illustrating all the explanations are there, i am not sure how to make this clearer except possibly to add the word "fallen" God's divine laws were not as effective operating through "fallen" flesh or in other words imperfect men
John 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?
Apostle Paul confirms the law as being summed up by the word love,in harmony with jesus, and also God himself who so loved the world that he gave his son to die for our sins that whosever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life
Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Mark 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
@kafirrrrrrlisa So, basically you abandon everything prophets have said, and accept everything Paul says without any scrutiny. I say that you have fallen for his invention. There is not one single precedence for this new understanding in the Old Testament, but suddenly, it becomes the conventional wisdom ala Paul.
Deuteronomy 18:15 ¶The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken
Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
Acts 7:37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
Romans 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Isaiah 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
Matthew 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Psalms 118:22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
@webdawah Jesus was born of his brethren and was a prophet into them. Isaac was born of his brethren, moses was born of his brethren and also was a prophet unto them.
@kafirrrrrrlisa Jesus(pbuh) was not a prophet according to Christianity, but the son of God, and the same as God. When expedient, Christians call him a man, when expedient he is God, or a prophet, etc. How many prophets in the past sacrifice their lives for humanity?
The brethren of Issac was Ishmael, not Isaac. In now way did Jesus(p) resemble Moses(p) in actions or lifestyle. Not a single Jew, not even Paul thought there was any resemblance.
@kafirrrrrrlisa If the law was supposed to be replaced after a time, due to it's ineffectiveness, why create the laws at all? The law, according to Christianity was toothless, therefore redundant. That makes no sense.
@webdawah Galatians 3:19 ¶Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made
@kafirrrrrrlisa Paul becomes a judge of God's law, and deems it imperfect, which automatically means that God is imperfect. I'm sorry, I don't subscribe to that.
@webdawah Jesus had the correct understanding of the law Apostle Paul and others spoke in harmony with his testimony it was because of the hardness of their heart that many closed their ears and eyes to his message and those who followed in his footsteps
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
@kafirrrrrrlisa Mark 8:18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember?
Romans 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
Jeremiah 5:21 Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not:
again Apostle Paul's testimny harmonizes this time with both john the baptist (the last prophet of the old testament) and jesus himself as to the end of the law for the cancellation of transgressions
sin
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
John 8:46 ¶Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
Luke 7:28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.
John 1:29 ¶John (the baptist) seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world
Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god (theo,mighty one,Satan)of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
1 John 1:7 if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
John 8:12 ¶Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life
Mark 12:33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
@webdawah the scriptures demonstrate Apostle Pauls agreement with Jesus and other writers of the old and new testament according to the doctrine of the ransom sacrifice of Christ. Apostle Paul agrees with Jesus himself, none of the Jews kept the law, other writers of the new testament also concur, the harmony of testimony to this effect is clear to many.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me
@webdawah Psalms 19:7 ¶The law of the LORD is perfect
God's laws are perfect but could not make the righteousness of any perfect without the merit of Jesus--the only one who could keep them perfectly. Jesus proved his perfection and sinlessness under the mosaic law and his right therefore to redeem the once perfect Adam from everlasting death including all under the law and ultimately all born from the loins of Adam
@kafirrrrrrlisa That makes no sense, if God's law is perfect, it would achieve it's purpose. That's a senseless contradiction that a perfect law, is ineffective.
@webdawah this has been answered many times over all the scriptural indications are that they did not keep the law of God, the closest they came to fulfilling the law was through the perfect intention of the heart but not actual perfection in performing every requirement of the mosaic law the least violation of which was to fail the whole.
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Nehemiah 9:34 Neither have our kings, our princes, our priests, nor our fathers, kept thy law, nor hearkened unto thy commandments and thy testimonies, wherewith thou didst testify against them
Amos 2:4 they have despised the law of the LORD, and have not kept his commandments, and their lies caused them to err, after the which their fathers have walked:
Jeremiah 2:8 The priests said not, Where is the LORD? and they that handle the law knew me not: the pastors also transgressed against me, and the prophets prophesied by Baal, and walked after things that do not profit.
Malachi 2:9 ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law
Acts 15:7 Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
@kafirrrrrrlisa Jeremiah would be a false prophet, and a hypocrite if after conveying the message in chapter 2 went back against the law. Same thing for Malachi too. I do not accept the premise that not a single Jew could keep the law.
@kafirrrrrrlisa The speaker in Nehemiah, is obviously condemning his ancestors for not keeping the law, and it is sheer common sense that at least the speaker, if not anyone else would keep the law, or is a hypocrite. So, is Nehemiah a hypocrite?
Amos distinguishes between Moab, Judah, and Israel, but only blaming Judah for not keeping the law, obviously Judah is not the only one that the law was meant for.
@webdawah Hebrews and many other writers agree with Apostle Paul including Jesus himself, i am not sure how i can help further, if there were at least a reasonable counter presentation then this particular engagement would be less uncomfortable to observe.
Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
@webdawah No signature is attached to the book of Hebrews, nor does the writer of it in any way identify himself, but if it were not Apostle Paul its harmony would most likely be discarded
perhaps without no direct evidence of authorship written into the text of Hebrews it would be wise not to assume who the author was and present it as fact....have a nice day
God's laws are perfect but could not make the righteousness of any perfect without the merit of Jesus--the only one who could keep them perfectly. Jesus proved his perfection and sinlessness under the mosaic law and his right therefore to redeem the once perfect Adam from everlasting death including all under the law and ultimately all born from the loins of Adam
Apostle Paul was correct the Jews were left desolate after rejecting Jesus, none of the Jews could gain everlasting life through the the mosaic law without Christ. No imperfect man could keep those laws perfectly and gain eternal life through them whether Jew or gentile including muhammed who himself is still in need of salvation to be testified "in due time"
@kafirrrrrrlisa So, your premise is that God did not know that mas could not keep the law before making the law? God let people live and die for thousands of years trying in vain to keep the law, but God knew their challenge before hand and used them for entertainment. Later He sent a sacrifice, after millions are already dead, and have no opportunity to accept Jesus(pbuh) as their savior, hence going to hell regardless.
@webdawah the law was the measure of a perfect man's ability to keep, only Jesus could keep it perfectly however it did elevate the characters of all who tried to keep it. and provision was made through various sacrifices for trespasses against justice i.e sin offerings.
@webdawah the measure or the standard may be a little easier to understand, the Jewish nation were not left with no laws and to govern themselves with vague ideas as to what was just or unjust. the mosaic law was an illustration of God's perfect justice which elevated the character of all those who tried to adhere to them. the only possession any can take to the grave is the characters formed in this life. It was not unjust to reveal laws to man
@kafirrrrrrlisa It was not unjust to reveal laws to man to preserve them from degeneration until the due time for the coming messiah who came to fulfil the law and prophesies and that all may be justified in him through faith in the merit of his sacrifice.
Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
@kafirrrrrrlisa I'm not sure that you see that this is inconsistent. The Jews were under the law, and it was supposed to train them to act right before Christ(p), but the Gentiles had no law, and are supposed to just accept Jesus(p) without any training? Do you understand the concept of justice? Were the Jews less intelligent than the average? Paul exhorts to do away with the law that he did not make. Jesus(p) never said such in his life time, but said they will last till judgement. Mat. 5:17-18
@webdawah only two people could keep the mosaic law from the whole of mankind, Adam before he fell and Jesus, Adam was very close to perfection but no works that he did could ever make him perfect again. if Adam lived under the mosaic law he would still have died under it. faith in christ is not dependent upon training or works but on faith in christ and as the muslims have no faith in the merit of the sacrifice of christ and believe he did not die for them they are still dead in their sins.
@kafirrrrrrlisa Which Biblical reference says that only two people could keep the law? Is Sabbath not part of the law? Is adultery not against the law? How does one keep the law by setting an adulterer free?(the story is a fabrication, but still).
If Christians are no longer under the law, what was Jesus(pbuh) saying in Matthew 5: 17-18?
@webdawah what law did Adam break before he sinned?
Adam also was without sin before he fell, he purposely transgressed God's perfect justice to end his life, not desiring to live on without his companion.
Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
@kafirrrrrrlisa I asked for Biblical reference, you have none. Adam was not a Jew to have been under the law. You made that part up, and I was sure you could not back it up, that's why I asked for a reference.
@webdawah the scriptures indicate that Adam only fell into sin after he disobeyed God, therefore previously he was perfect and under no condemnation. death is the wages of sin not of righteousness (the scripture again)
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Adam before he fell could keep every feature of the mosaic law, for the law was the standard (measure) of perfection exemplified in Christ.
Adam was obviously without sin and perfect and for a time kept all the demands of justice. he without condemnation he could have kept the whole law of moses perfectly until he sinned .
1 John 3:4 ¶Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law
Adam sinned deliberately purposely ending his life not desiring to live on without his companion, death then passed upon all whether or not they had the law even upon infants who knew no wilful sin or disobedience
Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come
@kafirrrrrrlisa 90% of your quotes are from Paul, I'm sure you see why I made the video calling him an inventor. There are no independent Old Testament quotes that support your doctrine.
In Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: So the God head is God THE FATHER, GOD THE SON, GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT three persons but ONE God. So man is made of soul, body, & spirit!even in Jewish Passover they take the matzo three pieces and take the middle and beak it which repersents Lord Jesus Christ the Bread from Heaven, the Son of Man, God(Yahweh) in the Flesh.
s25598 6 months ago
@s25598 How does any of that show that God is three in one?
webdawah 6 months ago
@webdawah becuase it says us and our likeness, Just like when Jesus was baptized, the Son then The Holy Spirit like a dove, and The Father speaking from heaven saying this is my beloved Son whom I Am well pleased and you have John chapter 1 In the beginning was the Word(Jesus), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. This shows you that God is Father, God is Son, God is Holy Spirit , God is one in three persons not three Gods.
s25598 6 months ago
@s25598 Let "us" make man in our image, does not specify three. Could it be less, or more? Yes.
It can actually be argued that that is the Hebrew language translated quite literally. "Us" and "we" do not always denote plural, they are sometimes used for a single entity that is revered. The other references you gave are not specific of three either.
Besides, the writings of "Paul" predated the gospels, so they may have been an influence on the writers.
webdawah 6 months ago
the islamic picture that Jesus is only a mere human messenger. But Jesus Himself makes it perfectly clear that He is divine. Muslims attack Paul because they can't accept what Jesus taught. This video fails big time, just like islam does as a religion.
cycler7755 8 months ago
@cycler7755 How does Islam fail if it's the fastest growing religion?
The Bible does not even teach about the Trinity. The Gospels were written after the death of Paul, after his propaganda letters have spread. I did a series on the New Testament. Search for "Dubious Writings," you will learn a lot about your 'scripture.'
webdawah 8 months ago
@webdawah It's not actually, in real terms (i.e. actual numbers) the fastest growing religion is Christianity. Furthermore, 3 times as many people convert to Christianity as Islam. Islam is growing only because of high birth rates - many Muslims had children in the last 30 years so that explain the growth. As most muslims live in poverty, and poor people generally have more children that more educated and wealthy ones, it's hardly surprising or a great achievement.
cycler7755 8 months ago
@cycler7755 The truth remains that Islam is the fastest Growing religion. I can quote Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, so that garbage excuse you are giving does not fly.
webdawah 8 months ago
@webdawah Then how about you look at the official statistics. Christianity, PER ACTUAL NUMBERS, is growing a lot faster than Islam. IN ACTUAL NUMBERS, Christianity is the fastest growing religion in the world. There are also 3 times as many converts to Christianity as there are to Islam. Look it up!
cycler7755 8 months ago
@cycler7755 Put this in google search "Claims to be the fastest-growing religion."
webdawah 8 months ago
@webdawah Yes, now look at the numbers. Forget the percentages, religions like Zoroastrianism grow faster on a percentage level than both Christianity and Islam. Look at the ACTUAL NUMBERS. Who has the largest new members per year? It's Christianity - both in real terms and in terms of conversions.
cycler7755 8 months ago
@cycler7755 Nobody is looking at the percentages. It is the numbers. If something is growing, you consider all parameters of growth. Don't try to spin it into something that favors your religion.
webdawah 8 months ago
@webdawah I'm not. You're the one doing that. I just showed you that in actual numbers, i.e. in how many new adherents a religion gets each and every year, Christianity is the fastest growing religion in the world. By miles in fact - by many millions of adherents. Even in conversion rates, Christianity is the fastest growing religion in the world.
So yeah, now you know the truth
cycler7755 8 months ago
@cycler7755 If someone wants you to show that the fastest growing religion is, you use all parameters. Not just one, that seemingly favors your religion. You use all parameters.
webdawah 8 months ago
@webdawah Personally, which religion is growing or not is not really that relevant to me. But it obviously is to you. So I thought that you should at least know the truth. The religion that grows the most by actual number of new adherents each and every year (by a huge margin) is Christianity. FACT
cycler7755 8 months ago
@cycler7755 Since you are upholding that, fine. It is projected that Islam will overtake Christianity in numbers in the coming decades... FACT.
webdawah 8 months ago
@webdawah No, because the high muslim birth rates that were the motor of the growth of the religion are now set to massively decline with the next generation. And conversions rates from Islam to Christianity are going up dramatically all over the world. This even though in Muslim majority countries there is the death penalty for coming to Christ. But people are not scared of that because they know that they are finding their way to a loving God.
cycler7755 8 months ago
@cycler7755 Don't blame it on high birth rates. There are Chistians in Africa with high birth rates too.
webdawah 8 months ago
@webdawah Do you even know how the Qu'ran was compiled? How it was in oral form for over 25 years and how many of the followers forgot most verses, and also many died at the battle of yamama? Did you know that at one point there were many Qu'rans, all different? Then Uthman made his own copy and burned every other document. The Uthman Qu'ran you have today is the most corrupt piece of literature in history - not only is much of the information left out but even the chronology is completely wrong
cycler7755 8 months ago
@cycler7755 I know how the Qur'an was compiled, but everything else you are saying is inaccurate. There were variant reading of the Qur'an, that's why those others were burned to erase confusion. There has been only one Qur'an, and the chronology is deliberate. Read Islamic history, and stop spreading anti-Islamic talking points.
webdawah 8 months ago
@webdawah You don't know anything. The Uthman Qu'ran is the most corrupt piece of literature I've ever seen.
Both the information that is in it is not complete as historical records and even the hadith show, and even the chronology is badly put together. Uthman made a sloppy copy of what he could find and just quickly bundled it all together so that not more information would get lost than had already been. The Uthman Quran is a highly edited, badly composed, extremely corrupted book.
cycler7755 8 months ago
@cycler7755 Like I said, pick up a book about Islamic history, especially one that talks about the Qur'an. You will learn a lot.
webdawah 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@webdawah Don't worry, I know all about islam and islamic history. It's you who is confused.
Watch this video, and when you cannot refute it, realize you're following the wrong God.
h t t p : / / w w w . youtube . c o m /watch?v=j0x0OGROjg8 (get rid of the spaces)
cycler7755 8 months ago
@cycler7755 I have watched the video made by someone who lacks knowledge, and just making suppositions.
Now watch someone who knows what he;s talking aabout.
watch?v=oxyX5XjvzPE
webdawah 8 months ago
@webdawah Denial, just as I thought. Did you even bother to watch the whole clip? He BACKS IT ALL UP WITH ISLAMIC SOURCES. You cannot refute the video because IT IS ALL BACKED UP BY EVIDENCE. Check the hadith yourself, check the historical records.
You are only lying to yourself here
cycler7755 8 months ago
@cycler7755 I watched the whole clip, and he clearly does not know what he's talking about. What else do you have?
webdawah 8 months ago
@webdawah Ok, I'll show you that not only is masses of information missing from the Uthman Qu'ran but that even the chronology is wrong and illogical. Remember how the Qu'ran was in oral form first for the 23 years of revelation and several years after that. Now, Allah 'revealed' this orally to Muhammad: Quran 5:4 states: "This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion"
So, Allah orally revealed to Muhammad that he
cycler7755 8 months ago
@webdawah had on that day completed his message, and perfected the religion.
Now obviously as the message has been completed and perfected, it will have been among the last or even the last revelation that Muhammad will have received from Allah. So logically, it should come at the very end of the Qu'ran too. But guess what? It comes in the FIRST QUARTER. Not even close to the end. That makes absolutely NO SENSE as that is impossible to be the way Allah 'revealed' it and it just shows once again
cycler7755 8 months ago
@cycler7755 The Qur'an was not meant to be arranged chronologically. Everyone who have the slightest knowledge of Islam knows that. Which goes to show that you are just a poser with no true knowledge.
webdawah 8 months ago
@webdawah how sloppily the Uthman Qu'ran was composed. Uthman just acquired some of the information that had not yet been lost and forgotten, and ordered it to be structured in this way.
As such, not only is the information in the Uthman Qu'ran inaccurate, even the chronology is completely illogical and the sloppy work of a ruler.
As you of course know, he then burned all other documents that were not in his own copy, thereby destroying everything. The Quran you have today is a very badly and
cycler7755 8 months ago
@webdawah sloppily put together document. It is corrupted in just about every way that corruption is possible for a literary document. From leaving out and misrepresenting data, to erroneous chronology, to burning the evidence. Just awful - start to finish.
cycler7755 8 months ago
@cycler7755 Please, stop embarrassing yourself, and google. "Arrangement of the Quran."
webdawah 8 months ago
@webdawah The point is that the document you have today is not the way it was revealed (i.e. made up) by Muhammad. It is arranged completely differently. It's like I tell you a story, and then you retell it, but in a completely different order. That my friend is a form of literary corruption.
Then there's all the passages that were lost or purposefully not included. Indeed, there were 7 Qurans at one point, all different in length, style and chronology.
cycler7755 8 months ago
@webdawah Uthman then seized them all from the fellow tribes and burnt them. The Uthman Qu'ran you have today is the sloppy work of a man, where basically everything has been put together incorrectly. If there is one historical document that one can point to and clearly say 'edited, corrupted, and evidence destroyed' it is the Uthman Qu'ran.
cycler7755 8 months ago
@cycler7755 Please, educate yourself. You are barking up the wrong tree here. See what Muslims scholars says about the arrangement of the Qur'an, and Islamic history as regards the Qur'an. You will learn a lot.
webdawah 8 months ago
@webdawah I know Muhammad hated and killed dogs for pleasure but there's no need to accuse people of barking around here. If anyone is doing that, it's you by posting this video in the first place.
I have studied Islamic history and read the Qu'ran several times and have also read the Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari Hadith. I know what I'm talking about. The Uthman Qu'ran is a corrupted book in every sense of the word. I gave you the evidence and the facts. You know yourself it's true.
cycler7755 8 months ago
@webdawah The facts are clear. Even the Hadith constantly reminds us how verses were often forgotten. Apart from missing so much information, even chronology itself of the Uthman Qu'ran is inaccurate and not the way the message was 'revealed'. The sloppy Uthman Quran is a joke - literally, it is the MOST corrupted book I have ever laid eyes on. Everything about it has been highly edited, documents destroyed etc etc. Do your research with an open mind and you'll know the truth. Peace
cycler7755 8 months ago
@cycler7755 Please, stop embarrassing yourself and pick up a book.
webdawah 8 months ago
The Trinity is what the Bible teaches. It makes it clear that the Father is divine, that the Son is divine, and that the Holy Spirit is divine and then equates these three with one another. God is one, but in a unique way. If you use your logic then you'll realize that God is unlike anything else by His very nature - therefore, He also HAS to be one in a way that is special and unlike anything else.
Muslims hate Paul because He reaffirmed the divinity of Christ, something that doesn't fit into
cycler7755 8 months ago
it was not meant to humor you webdawah even the quran does not support your degree of prejudice it's nt humorous....just sad
iamgoingtohellgreat 1 year ago
webdawah doesn't know when to quit even the quran cant help him lol
iamgoingtohellgreat 1 year ago
@iamgoingtohellgreat I don't know what part of your comment is funny.
webdawah 1 year ago
God bless
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
Apostle Paul's teachings agree with the ministry of Jesus and others that the Jews kept not the law perfectly, and that Jesus became the propitiation for the sins of the church and the world, but additionally no scriptures were presented to support the idea that he somehow invented the trinity.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
""Paul becomes a judge of God's law, and deems it imperfect, which automatically means that God is imperfect. I'm sorry, I don't subscribe to that"
i suggest you read thoroughly all responses to your question, some have been answered many times over...i repost this reply simply because it did not appear under your post.
Psalms 19:7 ¶The law of the LORD is perfect
God's laws are perfect but could not make the righteousness of any perfect
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
.....without the merit of Jesus--the only one who could keep them perfectly. Jesus proved his perfection and sinlessness under the mosaic law and his right therefore to redeem the once perfect Adam from everlasting death including all under the law and ultimately all born from the loins of Adam
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa Still, the Bible does not portray Jesus(pbuh) as keeping the law perfectly, neither does the Bible has any precedence of blaming the son for the sins of the father, ala blaming the rest of humanity for the sins of Adam.
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah this has been thoroughly covered see a few comments down and in many many other places, you obviously don't understand or accept the bible, maybe you could search the Quran for suggestions that Jesus did not keep the mosaic law of the Torah.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa That is not Paul speaking in Psalms, so don't attribute it to Paul.
webdawah 1 year ago
Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good
2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you
2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good," but cannot accomplish what it set out to do.
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah Is Sabbath not part of the law?
Matthew 12:5 have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa You prove my point that the Sabbath is part of the Law, you cannot profane something that is not sacred.
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah
Jesus a violator of the mosaic law? did the pharisees find fault in Jesus on matters of the law that would stand scrutiny? his only accusation when on trial was that he said he said was the son of God even though there is mention of many sons of God even in the Torah,neither does the Quran attempt to suggest he transgressed the ("former books"Torah) and sinned. How then in the"type" did the priests profane the sabbath and be blameless but Jesus be somehow a transgressor of the law?
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa According to the New Testament, he violated the Sabbath, but made it look less than what it was.
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah Jesus a violator of the mosaic law? did the pharisees find fault in Jesus on matters of the law that would stand scrutiny? his only accusation when on trial was that he said he said was the son of God even though there is mention of many sons of God even in the Torah,neither does the Quran attempt to suggest he transgressed the ("former books"Torah) and sinned. How then in the"type" did the priests profane the sabbath and be blameless but Jesus be somehow a transgressor of the law?
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa The fact that the Pharisees did not mention it does not justify it. The Pharisees were not with him 24hours a day. If that story of being out and about on Sabbath is true, that is a violation.
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah neither does the Quran attempt to suggest he transgressed the ("former books"Torah) and sinned. How then in the"type" did the priests profane the sabbath and be blameless but Jesus be somehow a transgressor of the law?
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@webdawah 57 And there arose certain, and bare false witness against him, saying,
58 We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.
59 But neither so did their witness agree together.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@webdawah Mark 14:55 And the chief priests and all the council sought for witness against Jesus to put him to death; and found none.
56 For many bare false witness against him, but their witness agreed not together.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@webdawah there are many interesting points worthy of note surrounding Jesus,,,Jesus is not only lord of the sabbath, but he is a priest and anti-typical mediator.... moses wrote of him you know
John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa You are unable to look at your scripture objectively, Jesus(p) did not even have his disciples with him 24 hours a day, so how would the Pharisees, or high priests know every little detail of his life?
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah the light of Jesus advances as earths dark shadows flee;
John 8:12 ¶Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
neither could the Quran suggest he transgressed the ("former books"Torah) through sin, and so it is that the question remains, How then in the"type" did the priests profane the sabbath and be blameless but Jesus be somehow a transgressor of the law?
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
one consideration that may help--Jesus is a prophet and priest as well as antitypical mediator
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
muhammed was a false prophet and the Quran has led Muslims into a deception, a false hope and expectation through a fallen angel who said that angels do not lie and have no freewill--if just that one statement be realized as false then the whole of the Quran collapses
Galatians 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa Muslims do not believe in expectations through an angel. Perhaps, you need to study the Islamic doctrine better.
Galatians 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could ..."
Is this promise given without condition? Can you sin all your life and still have eternal life, while believing in the sacrifice of Christ? No, so you are expected to live according to some guidance, but what is it? Since there's no law?
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah muhammed was visited by an angel, who dictated to him, but more than likely also possessed him the angel said angels do not lie or have freewill, it is in the quran.
the law was not against the oath bound promises of God made to Abraham the mosaic law covenant was added exactly because of transgression and as an illustration that mankind cannot save themselves by righteous deeds-ultimately a lesson for all mankind. it highlighted their of their need of a saviour
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa The law did not stop transgression, neither did the 'sacrifice.' One generation would have been sufficient to prove to man that he cannot save himself, not tens of generations. If God is a merciful God, and can forgive transgressions, the sacrifice proves otherwise. Why does man need a savior, when he has a merciful God?
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah there are many dispensations and time features in the bible Gods progressive plan has been gradually unfolding throughout the entire history of mankind from Adam to our present day there are many dispensations and associated time features.interwoven into the bible. prophesy has a set time for its fulfillment
Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa So, your doctrine portrays a God that does not distinguish one person from another. Some people have a set of rules, and others have a set of requirements. I don't see any justice here.
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah @webdawah God made a covenant with the Jews and distinguished them from the gentiles but all will ultimately be subject unto christ this is not unjust.
Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa So, your assertion is that the Jews could not keep their end of the covenant because they could not really follow the law. But God already knew this, so why get them into a covenant they would not be able to keep?
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Deuteronomy 18:15 ¶The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa It makes no sense that God makes a law that is weak. I actually see that as blasphemy on the part of Paul.
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah: Apostle Paul was correct; the law-(although perfect) was weak through the flesh. The strength and perfection of God's laws could not be demonstrated through imperfect men neither could it make them perfect and thereby justified in God's sight. The strength of the law could be realized only through Jesus who came in the likeness of fallen flesh "and for sin"--to cancel the debt owed to divine justice by Adam and all humanity both jew and gentile born into sin from the loins of Adam.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa So, you subcribe to the idea that God's law is weak? Do you have any reference from the Bible quoting God that His law is weak? What is the purpose of a weak law, a law that supposedly came from the creator of man? What laws do you live by, since God's laws are weak?
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah i suggest you re-read the comment, and the scripture in order to discern what apostle Paul is illustrating all the explanations are there, i am not sure how to make this clearer except possibly to add the word "fallen" God's divine laws were not as effective operating through "fallen" flesh or in other words imperfect men
John 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa So, now that you are no more fallen, thus saved, what laws do you live by?
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah
Apostle Paul confirms the law as being summed up by the word love,in harmony with jesus, and also God himself who so loved the world that he gave his son to die for our sins that whosever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
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Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Mark 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth
22 the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa So, basically you abandon everything prophets have said, and accept everything Paul says without any scrutiny. I say that you have fallen for his invention. There is not one single precedence for this new understanding in the Old Testament, but suddenly, it becomes the conventional wisdom ala Paul.
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah
Deuteronomy 18:15 ¶The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
Acts 7:37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
Mark 1:7 And preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose.
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
1 Corinthians 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
1 Corinthians 1:14 ¶I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1 Corinthians 1:15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
11 ¶For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
Romans 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Isaiah 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
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Matthew 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Psalms 118:22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
1 Corinthians 3:11 ¶For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
1 Corinthians 3:11 ¶For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa ... and how is Jesus(p) like unto Moses(p)? Is Jesus(p) from the brethren of Isaac?
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah Jesus was born of his brethren and was a prophet into them. Isaac was born of his brethren, moses was born of his brethren and also was a prophet unto them.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa Jesus(pbuh) was not a prophet according to Christianity, but the son of God, and the same as God. When expedient, Christians call him a man, when expedient he is God, or a prophet, etc. How many prophets in the past sacrifice their lives for humanity?
The brethren of Issac was Ishmael, not Isaac. In now way did Jesus(p) resemble Moses(p) in actions or lifestyle. Not a single Jew, not even Paul thought there was any resemblance.
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah the Jews were frequently rebellious, the mosiac law was more of a deterrent than no laws at all, obviously.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa If the law was supposed to be replaced after a time, due to it's ineffectiveness, why create the laws at all? The law, according to Christianity was toothless, therefore redundant. That makes no sense.
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah the Jews were frequently rebellious, the mosiac law was more of a deterrent than no laws at all, obviously
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa "the mosiac law was more of a deterrent than no laws at all, obviously." Did God state this, or it is your logic?
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah Galatians 3:19 ¶Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa And has humanity stopped transgressing? Why is the law no longer needed?
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa Paul becomes a judge of God's law, and deems it imperfect, which automatically means that God is imperfect. I'm sorry, I don't subscribe to that.
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah Jesus had the correct understanding of the law Apostle Paul and others spoke in harmony with his testimony it was because of the hardness of their heart that many closed their ears and eyes to his message and those who followed in his footsteps
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa Mark 8:18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember?
Romans 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
Jeremiah 5:21 Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not:
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
again Apostle Paul's testimny harmonizes this time with both john the baptist (the last prophet of the old testament) and jesus himself as to the end of the law for the cancellation of transgressions
sin
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
John 8:46 ¶Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
Luke 7:28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.
John 1:29 ¶John (the baptist) seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world
Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
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John 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.(the baptist)
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
Isaiah 60:3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god (theo,mighty one,Satan)of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
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1 John 1:7 if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
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John 8:12 ¶Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
1 John 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
1 John 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
James 2:8 ¶If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
Mark 12:33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa All your references are of Paul defending his judgement of God's law, and New Testament writers inspired by the writings of Paul.
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah the scriptures demonstrate Apostle Pauls agreement with Jesus and other writers of the old and new testament according to the doctrine of the ransom sacrifice of Christ. Apostle Paul agrees with Jesus himself, none of the Jews kept the law, other writers of the new testament also concur, the harmony of testimony to this effect is clear to many.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@webdawah Psalms 19:7 ¶The law of the LORD is perfect
God's laws are perfect but could not make the righteousness of any perfect without the merit of Jesus--the only one who could keep them perfectly. Jesus proved his perfection and sinlessness under the mosaic law and his right therefore to redeem the once perfect Adam from everlasting death including all under the law and ultimately all born from the loins of Adam
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa That makes no sense, if God's law is perfect, it would achieve it's purpose. That's a senseless contradiction that a perfect law, is ineffective.
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah this has been answered many times over all the scriptural indications are that they did not keep the law of God, the closest they came to fulfilling the law was through the perfect intention of the heart but not actual perfection in performing every requirement of the mosaic law the least violation of which was to fail the whole.
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
Aslight failure is still sin and equates to imperfection, this was illustrated by Adam his failure was through eating an apple
1 John 3:4 ¶Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
the greatest prophet recognized his need of jesus
Luke 7:28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist:
Matthew 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
Nehemiah 9:34 Neither have our kings, our princes, our priests, nor our fathers, kept thy law, nor hearkened unto thy commandments and thy testimonies, wherewith thou didst testify against them
Amos 2:4 they have despised the law of the LORD, and have not kept his commandments, and their lies caused them to err, after the which their fathers have walked:
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
Jeremiah 2:8 The priests said not, Where is the LORD? and they that handle the law knew me not: the pastors also transgressed against me, and the prophets prophesied by Baal, and walked after things that do not profit.
Malachi 2:9 ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ
John 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?
Romans 10:4 Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
Acts 15:7 Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
John 8:46 ¶Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
1 John 3:4 ¶Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law
Romans 3:23 all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God
1 John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us
1 John 3:4 ¶Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa Jeremiah would be a false prophet, and a hypocrite if after conveying the message in chapter 2 went back against the law. Same thing for Malachi too. I do not accept the premise that not a single Jew could keep the law.
webdawah 1 year ago
A slight failure is still sin and equates to imperfection, this was illustrated by Adam his failure was through eating an apple
1 John 3:4 ¶Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law
iamgoingtohellgreat 1 year ago
@iamgoingtohellgreat Man was not created to be perfect, and that's why there is a law to start with. Try making sense.
webdawah 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa The speaker in Nehemiah, is obviously condemning his ancestors for not keeping the law, and it is sheer common sense that at least the speaker, if not anyone else would keep the law, or is a hypocrite. So, is Nehemiah a hypocrite?
Amos distinguishes between Moab, Judah, and Israel, but only blaming Judah for not keeping the law, obviously Judah is not the only one that the law was meant for.
webdawah 1 year ago
kaforrrrisa alos answered this--you are blind my friend
the greatest prophet recognized his need of jesus
Luke 7:28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist:
Matthew 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
iamgoingtohellgreat 1 year ago
@iamgoingtohellgreat Your responses are not correlating with the comments you are responding to. Perhaps you need a higher IQ?
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah Hebrews and many other writers agree with Apostle Paul including Jesus himself, i am not sure how i can help further, if there were at least a reasonable counter presentation then this particular engagement would be less uncomfortable to observe.
Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa Paul is the writer of Hebrews.
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah No signature is attached to the book of Hebrews, nor does the writer of it in any way identify himself, but if it were not Apostle Paul its harmony would most likely be discarded
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa Maybe you should learn about the authorship of the New Testament, before assuming who the authors are.
webdawah 1 year ago
perhaps without no direct evidence of authorship written into the text of Hebrews it would be wise not to assume who the author was and present it as fact....have a nice day
iamgoingtohellgreat 1 year ago
@iamgoingtohellgreat I did not assume the authorship of any document, I am only following through with what I read.
webdawah 1 year ago
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@webdawah
Psalms 19:7 ¶The law of the LORD is perfect
God's laws are perfect but could not make the righteousness of any perfect without the merit of Jesus--the only one who could keep them perfectly. Jesus proved his perfection and sinlessness under the mosaic law and his right therefore to redeem the once perfect Adam from everlasting death including all under the law and ultimately all born from the loins of Adam
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
Apostle Paul was correct the Jews were left desolate after rejecting Jesus, none of the Jews could gain everlasting life through the the mosaic law without Christ. No imperfect man could keep those laws perfectly and gain eternal life through them whether Jew or gentile including muhammed who himself is still in need of salvation to be testified "in due time"
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa So, your premise is that God did not know that mas could not keep the law before making the law? God let people live and die for thousands of years trying in vain to keep the law, but God knew their challenge before hand and used them for entertainment. Later He sent a sacrifice, after millions are already dead, and have no opportunity to accept Jesus(pbuh) as their savior, hence going to hell regardless.
Do you see any sense in that?
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah the law was the measure of a perfect man's ability to keep, only Jesus could keep it perfectly however it did elevate the characters of all who tried to keep it. and provision was made through various sacrifices for trespasses against justice i.e sin offerings.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa What was this measure about? That God does not already know the limitations of man? Is God omniscient to you Christians?
You also claim that Jesus(pbuh) was the only one who could keep the law, by not keeping the Sabbath?
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah the measure or the standard may be a little easier to understand, the Jewish nation were not left with no laws and to govern themselves with vague ideas as to what was just or unjust. the mosaic law was an illustration of God's perfect justice which elevated the character of all those who tried to adhere to them. the only possession any can take to the grave is the characters formed in this life. It was not unjust to reveal laws to man
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa It was not unjust to reveal laws to man to preserve them from degeneration until the due time for the coming messiah who came to fulfil the law and prophesies and that all may be justified in him through faith in the merit of his sacrifice.
Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa I'm not sure that you see that this is inconsistent. The Jews were under the law, and it was supposed to train them to act right before Christ(p), but the Gentiles had no law, and are supposed to just accept Jesus(p) without any training? Do you understand the concept of justice? Were the Jews less intelligent than the average? Paul exhorts to do away with the law that he did not make. Jesus(p) never said such in his life time, but said they will last till judgement. Mat. 5:17-18
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah only two people could keep the mosaic law from the whole of mankind, Adam before he fell and Jesus, Adam was very close to perfection but no works that he did could ever make him perfect again. if Adam lived under the mosaic law he would still have died under it. faith in christ is not dependent upon training or works but on faith in christ and as the muslims have no faith in the merit of the sacrifice of christ and believe he did not die for them they are still dead in their sins.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
according to thy works be it unto thee ??
Matthew 9:29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.
Matthew 9:22 be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole.
Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa Which Biblical reference says that only two people could keep the law? Is Sabbath not part of the law? Is adultery not against the law? How does one keep the law by setting an adulterer free?(the story is a fabrication, but still).
If Christians are no longer under the law, what was Jesus(pbuh) saying in Matthew 5: 17-18?
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah only Adam before he fell, and jesus christ could keep the mosaic law biblical reference plus reason
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@webdawah what law did Adam break before he sinned?
Adam also was without sin before he fell, he purposely transgressed God's perfect justice to end his life, not desiring to live on without his companion.
Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa I asked for Biblical reference, you have none. Adam was not a Jew to have been under the law. You made that part up, and I was sure you could not back it up, that's why I asked for a reference.
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah the scriptures indicate that Adam only fell into sin after he disobeyed God, therefore previously he was perfect and under no condemnation. death is the wages of sin not of righteousness (the scripture again)
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Adam before he fell could keep every feature of the mosaic law, for the law was the standard (measure) of perfection exemplified in Christ.
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa Still no Biblical quotes to that effect?
webdawah 1 year ago
@webdawah
Adam was obviously without sin and perfect and for a time kept all the demands of justice. he without condemnation he could have kept the whole law of moses perfectly until he sinned .
1 John 3:4 ¶Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
Adam sinned deliberately purposely ending his life not desiring to live on without his companion, death then passed upon all whether or not they had the law even upon infants who knew no wilful sin or disobedience
Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come
kafirrrrrrlisa 1 year ago
@kafirrrrrrlisa 90% of your quotes are from Paul, I'm sure you see why I made the video calling him an inventor. There are no independent Old Testament quotes that support your doctrine.
webdawah 1 year ago