Rhodesia and the Rhodesian's were sold out by a weak British Labour government. Harold Wilson was a spineless reptile. I grew up in southern England. At only ten years old (1972) I recall reading in the papers the strife of Rhodesia. If I would have been old anough, I would have fought for them. Too bad it's run by a corrupt baboon now!
out of curiosity, what could the British have done better when pulling out of Africa? I guess they could have engaged in bloody conflict like the French did, that would have turned out nicer I guess. I keep forgetting what an egalitarian Utopia Africa was before the Europeans arrived
great song and very true,, Rhodesians if you are out there, what do you want to do? Do you want Rhodesia back or are you all just happy to fade away!!!!!!! It is time to form a new Government, in excile if need be, but the time is now to start acting, your support is growing!!!! ACT NOW!!!!!!
The United Nations' Human Developement Index has ranked Zimbabwe the least desirable country in the world in which to live in;Norway being the most desirable to live in. It is of interest to note that a close black South African friend expressed to me her desire to get an education and live in Rhodesia in the early sixties having heard of our high standards, despite the bad rap the western media gave our country about our "oppressed blacks."
I don't blame the people. Most Zimbabweans are hardworking, honest and nice people. It's that piece of shit Mugabe, Zanu PF and their fellow cronies that have taken the Once called "Basket of Africa" to a Basket Case.
With all due respect to those affected by the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, they can barely imagine the pain inflicted by the betrayal on our Rhodesian nation with our very soul ripped out of us and no compensation whatsoever. The American politician, Pat Buchanan once so aptly said. "There is no greater loss than the loss of one's country." Thanks Wilson and thanks LBJ.
That's okay I smell another Great War on the Horizon Pommies and Yanks only this time fight it yourselves I will not fight for you this time even if it means fighting for the Russians. Just so that you know my heart is in the right place this time, I will not make the same mistake my forfarthers made. Your great betrayal of Rhodesia and South Africa has not gone by un-noticed. We Rhodies are having the last laugh now.
"By the time I left Zimbabwe I was devastated, overwhelmed by a sense of huge loss. First my birthrights had gone - my citizenship, my vote and my passport. Next my husband, cancer taking its too-early toll. His death left me vulnerable, a woman alone on a big property, the inevitable target of thieves and car-jackers, so I had to sell my home". Extract from her story - great read - easy to find by name search.
It brings tears to my eyes to hear about the suffering of this woman....I have heard that they might bring Zim back into the Commonwealth. What a spineless and cowardly way out for them!!
I'm listening to her audio. What a remarkable woman!! Very gentle accent. Interesting though that she ran for election for the Rhodesia Party against the Rhodesian Front...
Despite setting new standards of tyrannical rule, socio-economic destruction and spectacular accumulation of personal wealth on a continent whose political leaders have cornered the market in such political malfeasance, Mugabe has managed not only to hang onto power but now appears to be a candidate for rehabilitation.
Return to British Rule (A Poem By Chas Lotter) This strange plane Disgorges Lord Soames Who trundles across the tarmac, shining pinkly In all his British glory. We are English again That unfamiliar tune Plays, once more, on Rhodesian soil As the band pounds out God Save The Queen And God help us.... By Chas Lotter
(Extract) From a recent email to the sister of Pete Battershill KIA Rhodesia -
"Our lives were stolen, our youth taken away and in many cases permanently. Our parents and family members died unhappy and prematurely - all because of the treachery of the British Government in failing to uphold the terms of the Lancaster House agreement. That's why the French call them "Perfidious Albion" - Treacherous Britain.
Suryavajra; thank you for the kind rememberance of our independence day. At this rate you may have to renounce your American citizenship in favour of Rhodesian!LOL.
Well said too Bsrcrgrieve; I remember many retired Rhodesians having to work as flat managers in South Africa; they were miserable and went to their graves early. You know I will not forget nor forgive Perfidious Albion for the ethnic cleansing of us
Let us pause and remember the eleventh of November 1965, the day we chose to declare our Independence from Britain because she reneged on her promise a few years prior to give it to us and the consequences or her perfidity have been dire.
Great comment - well said. Countless Rhodesians have gone to their graves early due to the treachery of the British Government. This was genocide of the Rhodesian people by "another means". Almost the entire Rhodesian nation was displaced by this British treachery and yet they have never been held accountable - the last few Rhodesians need to ponder this - never forget, never forgive.
Bscrgrieve, I think a major part of the problem is because most of us on the outside never heard this history. I didn't until recently, and even then books on the matter are extremely difficult to come by. Hence information is controlled, and we never got both sides of the story.
Finland has just been ranked first on the "Prosperity Index", the U.S ninth, the U.K twelfth.........and yes you guessed it Zimbabwe was ranked worst.
i have no doubt Rhodesia would have placed in the top ten back in the day.
Absolutely right Bsrcrgrieve; with responsible governance since 1923 untill 1965 and then with adverse conditions,sanctions and a revolution from 1965 -1979 Ian Smith and Rhodesia would have claimed that prize without a shadow of a doubt.
Does anyone govern well in Africa?£3m leadership prize goes begging
David Smith The Guardian, Wednesday 21 October 2009 Article historyThe Mo Ibrahim Foundation's announcement this week that it could not find anyone worthy of its £3m African leadership prize appears a damning verdict on the state of governance on the continent.
One has to say that Ian Smith and Rhodesia would, without a doubt have qualified. Thanks Britain.........or should I say Perfidious Albion......
And this reminds me of the 80's,when Mugabe's "new businessmen" were dished out with import licenses;but they sold these to established businessmen and squandered their proceeds on beer and women,nothing to show for themselves except a higher HIV/AIDS infection rate;whilst we the povos had no choice but to "illegally import" the country's desperately needed business commodities and risked "so called criminal convictions" How Bizarre!!
Having stolen our farmland,Mugabe's so called "new farmers" are given free seeds,fertilizers and fuel;yet they generally sell these to pay for busfare to town;ironically to buy food. How Bizarre!!
Mugabe is now saying it is OK for the white farmers to come back. LOL. Bobby you had your chance. Now your people must suffer the consequences of your short-sighted stupidity and starve.
Let us not forget the words of the black student being interviewed by CNN at the University of Zimbabwe during the stolen elections in 2002 and I quote"When Ian Smith said never in a 1000 years will there be majority rule;I TRULY believe that he meant that there is a future for this country" Very interesting interpretation and for it he was expelled from the faculty.Our country needs more people like him.GOOD MAN whereever he is today.
Take a few seconds and email this video link to your local newspaper, editor, MP and who ever else needs their conscience pricked......it won't do anything but make you feel better and remind those who participated what a mess it made when Mugabe was allowed to take over. We at least owe that to those good solid Rhodesians who have died and to those whose lives were ruined......
It is sad when Americans themselves believe their country is going the same way Rhodesia went due to past and current policies and many are arming themselves to the teeth.
A shock was in store for the Rhodesian people, however, for when the Constitution was published by the British Government, it included a section which had not appeared in the White Papers. This Section III. It gave the British Government the power to amend or revoke many sections of the Constitution, including sections referring to the powers and duties of the Governor, the Sovereign's position in the Legislature, ....another example of......."Perfidious Albion!!" - Treacherous Britain (govt)!
Rhodesia had been a self-governing British Crown colony since 1923, and before that had been administered by a commercial company under a Royal Charter. At no time had she been ruled by the Colonial Office, been administered by British Government officials or been occupied by British troops. The reason for these departures from normal British practice lies in the earliest years of Rhodesia's existence.
(continued from below) /..."and seeking to promote the common good so that the dignity and freedom of all men may be assured, do, by this proclamation, adopt enact and give to the people of Rhodesia the constitution annexed hereto;
God Save The Queen
Given under Our Hand at Salisbury this eleventh day of November in the Year of Our Lord one thousand nine hundred and sixty five.
THE GOVERNMENT OF RHODESIA
Hon. Ian Douglas Smith - Prime Minister of Rhodesia "
"Now therefore, we the Government of Rhodesia, in humble submission to Almighty God who controls the destinies of nations, conscious that the people of Rhodesia have always shown unswerving loyalty and devotion to Her Majesty the Queen and earnestly praying that we and the people of Rhodesia will not be hindered in our determination to continue exercising our undoubted right to demonstrate the same loyalty and devotion" (continued above) /...
Preamble to The UDI - "Whereas in the course of human affairs history has shown that it may become necessary for a people to resolve the political affiliations which have connected them with another people and to assume amongst other nations the separate and equal status to which they are entitled:
And whereas in such event a respect for the opinions of mankind requires them to declare to other nations the causes which impel them to assume full responsibility for their own affairs:"
From The Rhodesian Declaration of Independance 11 November 1965 - a few more lines...
"Now therefore, we, the Government of Rhodesia, do hereby declare:
That it is an indisputable and accepted historic fact that since 1923 the Government of Rhodesia have exercised the powers of self-government and have been responsible for the progress, development and welfare of their people;"
"That the government of the United Kingdom have demonstrated that they are not prepared to grant sovereign independence to Rhodesia on terms acceptable to the people of Rhodesia, thereby persisting in maintaining an unwarrantable jurisdiction over Rhodesia,obstructing laws and treaties with other states and the conduct of affairs with other nations and refusing assent to laws necessary for the public good, all this to the detriment of the future peace, prosperity and good government of Rhodesia"
That the Government of Rhodesia have for a long period patiently and in good faith negotiated with the Government of the United Kingdom for the removal of the remaining limitations placed upon them and for the grant of sovereign independence;
That in the belief that procrastination and delay strike at and injure the very life of the nation,the Government of Rhodesia consider it essential that Rhodesia should attain, without delay, sovereign independence, the justice of which is beyond question;
From The Rhodesian Declaration of Independance 11 November 1965 - a few more lines...
"That the people of Rhodesia have witnessed a process which is destructive of those very precepts upon which civilization in a primitive country has been built, they have seen the principles of Western democracy, responsible government and moral standards crumble elsewhere, nevertheless they have remained steadfast;"
From The Rhodesian Declaration of Independance 11 November 1965 -
"That the people of Rhodesia having demonstrated their loyalty to the Crown and to their kith and kin in the United Kingdom and elsewhere through two world wars, and having been prepared to shed their blood and give of their substance in what they believed to be the mutual interests of freedom-loving people, now see all that they have cherished about to be shattered on the rocks of expediency;"
"The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over these states. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world".
From The Institute of Commonwealth Studies -On 11 November 1965, Ian Smith, the Rhodesian Prime Minister, and his Cabinet broke away from the Queen and the British Government, unilaterally declaring independence.This was the first time a British colony had done so since America in 1776 and it caused reverberations not only in Britain, but throughout the world.
If you were born in Rhodesia before 1965(UDI) then does this make you a British Citizen???most probably by their own admission.
and more from Ian Smith from same source ""There is no doubt that the talk of threats and sanctions is no more than appeasement to the United Nations, the Afro-Asian bloc, and certain members of the Commonwealth;
But I cannot conceive of a rational world uniting in an endeavour to destroy the economy of this country, knowing, as they undoubtedly do, that in many cases the hardest hit will be the very people on whose behalf they would like to believe they- are invoking these sanctions".
And more "There will be no happiness in this country, while the absurd situation continues to exist where people such as ourselves, who have ruled ourselves with an impressive record for over 40 years, are denied what is freely granted to other countries, who have ruled themselves in some cases for no longer than a year.
Whatever the short-term economic disadvantages may be, in the long term steady economic progress could never be achieved unless we are masters in our own house..."
East Africa and Rhodesia Newspaper, November 18, 1965, pp. 204-205.
Quote Ian Smith "Neither let it be thought that this event marks a diminution in the opportunities which our African people have to advance and prosper in Rhodesia. Far from this being the case, it is our intention, in consultation with the chiefs, to bring them into the Government and administration as the acknowledged leaders of the African people on a basis acceptable to them".
East Africa and Rhodesia Newspaper, November 18, 1965, pp. 204-205.
Quote Ian Smith "It has become abundantly clear that it is the policy of the British Government to play us along with no real intention of arriving at a solution which we could possibly accept. Indeed, in the latest verbal and confidential message delivered to me last night we find that on the main principle which is in dispute the two Governments have moved further apart".
Extract From The United Staes Declaration of Independence-"Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies;and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States.He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people"
Perfide Albion est une expression péjorative française courante désignant l'Angleterre et,par extension,la Grande-Bretagne et le Royaume-Uni.Après l'Entente cordiale,de nombreux efforts ont été consentis pour améliorer les relations entre les deux pays,mais sous couvert d'humour,l'expression "perfide Albion" resurgit régulièrement.Dans le quotidien Le Monde,Marc Roche, correspondant à Londres, mentionne l'usage de cette expression par Bossuet au XVIIe siècle.
"The Monckton Report of September 1960 pointed to factors which were aggravating relations between the territories (Rhodesia & Nyasaland) and which could of been handled. But then almost nonchalantly made the 'suggestion' that the British government should be prepared to permit secession. This, of course, was Machiavellian, and in total conflict with the repeated agreements and promises of the British government.
British Prime Minister Gordon Brown has announced an extra £5m ($8m) of aid to Zimbabwe. This takes the total this year to £60m ($98m).
And the world stands by again..The UK refused all help to independant Rhodesia and brought them to their knees. This is just another way of getting funds to your own "shonky" politicians again -isn't it ? Money rerouted through a failed state. Any Intelligence officer can see this...."Perfidious Albion"
God bless Winston Churchill Jnr for standing up to the perfidity of his fellow politicians and voting against sanctions o Rhodesia.Bsrcrgrieve, are you aware of the votecount,for and against sanctions on us by Perfidious Albion.
"The depths to which the British government were prepared to descend in their vindictiveness were disclosed in their action in stopping the payment of their British pensioners living in Rhodesia. I responded by making the decision that not only would we continue to pay the Rhodesian pensioners in Britain, but that we would also pay the British pensioners living in Rhodesia who had been forsaken by their own government: 'two wrongs do not make a right-we will not descend (cont.)
Quote from Winston Churchill Jnr (MP) Nov 78 - Letter to Margaret Thatcher (see Margaret Thatchers website)
"I regard it as the most heinous and despicable act of any British government this century to seek to hold down the peoples of Rhodesia with economic sanctions and the denial of even defensive weapons, thereby making it easier for the surrogates of the Soviet Union to overrun the country by force of arms. Feeling as I do, I could not do other than vote against the sanctions order. "
The American press accused us Rhodesians as being a racist society,yet they had their forced bussing policy.We had a gradual process of integration based on merit.I grew up in Southerton,Salisbury and by 1974 in our suburb we were English,Afrikaaners,Portuguese,Coloureds and Blacks and we got on very well together;so don't believe the lie the world has tried to deceive you with.
Good advice Robinhood!Desmond Tutu actually has been quite voiceferous against Mugabe lately,calling for military action against him.Where was he 30-40 years ago when we needed him most?;preaching up "black conciousness" which is a direct form of racism as they follow a cause irrespect of the detrimental consequences to the people all in the name of the colour of one's skin.
Please stop all donations to Zimbabwe. Any website that has a supportZimbabwe must not be donated to. Funds ends up not for the people but for the leader Mugabe.
Even the sites that have by word or photo of Desmond Tutu that supportsZimbabwe are funds for Mugabe, and his one communist party.
AGAIN:FROM THE GREAT BETRAYAL BY IAN SMITH PAGE 409
"Finally,let me once again refer to what must go down in history as one of the most devious and blatantly dishonest actions of a British Government: The failure to abide by the terms of the Lancaster House agreement concerning the 1980 election."Quote Lord Soames-"I am afraid Mr Smith, that the principles and standards on which you and I were brought up to believe in, are no longer part of this world".
Suryavajra,damn straight the Gurkhas are furious;the British can't keep using and abusing people and then spitting them out when they don't need them.They did the same to us as we fought valiantly for them in the 1st and 2nd world wars.
your people and mine, garyleroux. My grandad fought in WW2, but like the rest of the mighty British Indian Army he didn't recieve his pension that UK soldiers recieved.
Let me elaborate on your statement. The British keep abusing the Commonwealth. And the Commonwealth falls for this shit every damn time. Sorry for the swearing, but did you know that there are many Indian Army veterans from the war that live in poverty today??
"Given the headlong rush of the Macmillan government in Britain in 1959 to be rid of its colonies, Rhodesia should have been the first African colony in line for independence. Rhodesia was self-governing, and possessed most powers, including the right of self-defense. Being in the condition of New Zealand before the grant of dominion status, it seemed logical that Rhodesia would become a dominion. "
From the Introduction to book "So Far And No Further" by Prof JRT Wood
"THE PEOPLE OF SOUTHERN RHODESIA HAVE THEMSELVES A RECORD OF LOYALTY AND PATRIOTISM SECOND TO NONE WITHIN THE POSSESSIONS AND PROTECTORATES OF THE CROWN: AND THEY HAVE PROVED THEMSELVES IN TIMES OF WAR, AND IN TIMES OF PEACE, WORTHY OF THE CONFIDENCE OF HIS MAJESTY'S GOVERNMENT".(WINSTON CHURCHILL)-EXTRACTED FROM THE BUXTON REPORT TO THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT.from the book-The Rhodesian problem: a documentary record,1923-1973
-Elaine Windrich Publisher Routledge 1975 ISBN 0710080808, 9780710080806
Another British Betrayal,the Gurkas who fought in wars for Britain as far back as Burma are finally getting settlement rights.Just like us Rhodesians(black and white)they tried to disown us.5 stars for Joanna Lumley for standing up for the Gurkas.Bsrcrgrieve's words just keep ringing in my ear-PERFIDIOUS ALBION-TREACHEROUS BRITAIN!!
The Gurkhas are rightly furious about all of this....The Brits say it is impossible to for 100,000 Gurkhas and their families to emmigrate to Britain?! WTF??
Blood Diamonds in Zimbabwe.Mugabe has just had his army execute over 150 miners trying to make an existence in Manicaland.If the world will get it's act together this is a carbon copy case of what got Sadaam Hussein convicted and executed
AGAIN:FROM THE GREAT BETRAYAL BY IAN SMITH PAGE 409
"Finally,let me once again refer to what must go down in history as one of the most devious and blatantly dishonest actions of a British Government: The failure to abide by the terms of the Lancaster House agreement concerning the 1980 election."Quote Lord Soames-"I am afraid Mr Smith, that the principles and standards on which you and I were brought up to believe in, are no longer part of this world".
Suryavajra,Britain had already thrown away her other territories in Africa.She now felt she had to appease the newly independant Afican States and give in to their demands.Britain had promised Rhodesia our independance under our constitution at the time;but reneged on it
S - You need to read a bit more. The OAU had been given authority and responsibility in Africa. In order to court them and provide them with status it was necessary for the British to suck up to them constantly - even when they were wrong. read Heidi Holland's book "Dinner with Mugabe". The OAU call for unilateral support of one another - regardless of right or wrong. So, they just stand together.......and the British accepted this, tolerated it, and allowed it to continue - Perfidious Albion...
Oh and S - just one more thing. You will know the saying "All that is needed for evil men to succeed is that good men do nothing.....". They did nothing - and evil succeeded. Perfidious Albion - Treacherous Britain.
The sidewalks of history will be littered with this dirty graffitti and scream it out obscenely from every unsuspecting neat and tidy surface - for ever.
"Perfidious Albion -
Treacherous Britain...."
And Rhodesia and every Rhodesian remains Britains dirty little secret.....
garyleroux, but there has to be a reason to act on their deviousness and treachery...LOL!
I mean nobody is treacherous just ofr its own sake....there has to be an aim or a motive. For instance Britain didnot just betray Czechoslovakia in 1938 because they wanted to be devious or acting on impulses...Chaimberlain justfied it as the way to keep peace in his time.
So I guess I want to know the underlying reason for betraying Rhodesia...
Suryavajra,,to your previous comment ,it just goes to show that the US failed Rhodesia miserably by not defending communist infiltration.The US considers Hamas as a terrorist organization;what less of a terrorist organization was/is Zanla and Zipra and the attrocities that they commited and still are committing?Double standards and betrayal!They played right into the hand of their bed buddy Britain.
suryavajra,we built Rhodesia from scratch in 1890 and within a few decades it became a modern civilized country through sheer hard work and determination.Ian Smith was a true national of Rhodesia and defended Britain valiantly in the 2nd world war.He was a man of vision and prolonged the communist takeover by fifteen years;and I don't think it can be replicated again.Treacherous Britain have sold and betrayed their kith and kin.
gary....I always wanted to know why Britain betrayed Rhodesia. Do you think the Brits saw Rhodesia as a threat to their mineral interests in Africa?? Was it a sense of vengeance because Smith had the audacity to go through with UDI??
AGAIN:FROM THE GREAT BETRAYAL BY IAN SMITH PAGE 409
"Finally,let me once again refer to what must go down in history as one of the most devious and blatantly dishonest actions of a British Government: The failure to abide by the terms of the Lancaster House agreement concerning the 1980 election."Quote Lord Soames-"I am afraid Mr Smith, that the principles and standards on which you and I were brought up to believe in, are no longer part of this world".
suryavajra,thanks for the kind sentiments for Rhodesia.The shops were laden with goods for ALL.There was an abundance of prosperity.The country today reminds me of a trip I took to Mozambique in the 80's where the stores were empty.That's Marxist rule for you and that's why it burns my soul that the US did not help us.Communism is rife in Africa today,with China the new colonial ruler.Rhodesia could have been the power house in Africa today
You're very welcome, gary!! the more I hear about Rhodesia, the more fascinated I am.
It leads me to ask this question of you. What was the secret to Rhodesia's Secret?? Was it laissez faire economics?? Was it free trade??
And what about Ian Smith?? Was he a conservative as We Americans would know him?? Was he a Rhodesian nationalist?? How did you build this great country and can it be replicated again??
gary, I don't know if this would make you feel better or worse, but I think that the fact that US didnot help Rhodesia constitutes a violation of the Truman and Kennedy Doctrines to intenrational relations. Both of those presidents, who happen to be Democrats by the way, argued that it was to the interest of the US that we defend any country that was threatened by communist inflitration...
It's amazing to think that we could lose a war and our country ultimately,yet in just three days we eradicated almost 5000 communist terrorists(Chimoio,Nyandzonya and Westland Farm) Deveous Britain may have killed our nation but cannot kill our spirit;RHODESIANS NEVER DIE. PAMWE CHETE!
12th December, 1966 By Brigadier John Enoch Powell, MBE -
".......We have now stood up in the face of the world and told a big, black, bold, brazen lie. The Foreign Secretary of Britain on your behalf has declared that in your opinion Rhodesia constitutes a danger to stability and peace in central and southern Africa.How Dr. Goebbels would have relished that one; it is the very spit and image of Nazi technique...."
We are very grateful to the brave decorated US soldiers and a few others from other nations who left their own causes to come help our 30000 heroes.Thank you!
Again-PLEASE, please take a moment to EMAIL this video to a few friends or people who may be interested. Perhaps, perhaps the British conscience will be pricked...send to the Editor of your local newspaper,the producer at your TV station or anyone that may take interest...it is very very unfair and unreasonable that an entire people were displaced simply by the British desire to appease the Organisation of African Unity and the Americans who simply didn't want to have another"Israel"in Africa...
AGAIN:FROM THE GREAT BETRAYAL BY IAN SMITH PAGE 409
"Finally,let me once again refer to what must go down in history as one of the most devious and blatantly dishonest actions of a British Government: The failure to abide by the terms of the Lancaster House agreement concerning the 1980 election."Quote Lord Soames-"I am afraid Mr Smith, that the principles and standards on which you and I were brought up to believe in, are no longer part of this world".
12th December, 1966 By Brigadier John Enoch Powell, MBE -
".......We have now stood up in the face of the world and told a big, black, bold, brazen lie. The Foreign Secretary of Britain on your behalf has declared that in your opinion Rhodesia constitutes a danger to stability and peace in central and southern Africa.How Dr. Goebbels would have relished that one; it is the very spit and image of Nazi technique...."
bsrcrgrieve,thanks for the update on the song on the video;I have the original record and lyric sheet and it ends-Democracy will bleed and there are two other word changes but yeah as you put at the end of video America is bleeding for failing to stop terrorismand they could have stopped the terrorism against Rhodesia if they had the balls to do so.
suryavajra,American troops in Rhodesia against communist Zanu PF would have been nice,but it would have sufficed if they shown morrality by not backing DEVIOUS Britain with sanctions on Rhodesai from day1 in 1968 and backing Rhodesia politically in our search for a negotiated settlement.
I agree with you that the US should of recognized Rhodesa and acted as an intermediary between Britain and Rhodesia to reach a concensus between these two states....
Don't know if we could of sent American troops into Rhodesia considering the political climate of the 1960s, unless it was a clandestine effort.
But yes, we made a mistake in sending all of those soldiers, and all of that money and equipment to South Vietnam in an effort to save a country that couldn't save itself.
Did you know that several decorated US soldiers came and fought in Rhodesia in Special Forces and other units. They were so peeved by US and UK policies that they simply gave up in their own countries and came over. And although few, they fought like lions (look up the name of Bob McKenzie for instance). They were regulars not mercenaries and political acceptance would have meant that a few more might have volunteered. They, were Legends and did great work against the ZANU and ZAPU terrorists...
Perhaps you are right, and that if we sent just a fraction of the resources we sent to South Vietnam over to Rhodesia instead, there would still be a Rhodesia today...
S - it would not have been necessary for the USA to send any help. Just simple political acceptance of Rhodesia in defiance against Britains (arrogant and illogical, politically appeasing OAU satisficing) poorly judged policy and to stand by neutrally and do what the USA does best - act as an international referee for democracy, fairness, justice .....and of course liberty....but they didn't........
Bsrcr, I understand your point. And I agree with much of it. Personally I have no great love for the British and I have my own issues agains them.....
But let me ask you something....Do you think that any American politican would realistically have a mjor disagreement with British policy considering that they are the major partner in Europe and NATO??
For heavens sake.....isn't the USA the land of the free and the brave ? What does it say in your constitution ? Have you read your bill of rights ? Do you know what the British did to your own people ? Have you all forgotten so quickly ? I think Americans should look at their history with Britain and never forget "PERFIDIOUS ALBION". The French still distrust the English and stand logically against them politically when they try and force through unjust or wrong policy.
Bscr, I'm aware of all of the bad blood that Americans had for Britain back in the day.
But American policy-makers have a love affair with Britain. That's the short end of it. Regardless of what I may think and say, the American policymakers will continue on with their love affair with the British...
That is just about the truth of it. In the long run the difference between torture and prostitution is only a matter of the policy of the day......I'm not surprised there is so much hate against the USA and Britain across the Middle East and the world in fact. People take it that the words are in stone (at the bottom of the statue of liberty), but the words depend on who is reading them......sadly not the spirit in which the founding fathers wrote them.....
Bscr, look at all of the outrages and corrption in the US....
Let me ask you, would any of the Founding Fathers have tolderated a bailout of AIG??
Our politicians lack any imagination or vision. They are either corrupt conservatives or corrupt liberals. All of them kiss up to their narrow interests.
What I, or any other ordinary American says or thinks is irrelevant to them.
AGAIN:FROM THE GREAT BETRAYAL BY IAN SMITH PAGE 409
"Finally,let me once again refer to what must go down in history as one of the most devious and blatantly dishonest actions of a British Government: The failure to abide by the terms of the Lancaster House agreement concerning the 1980 election."Quote Lord Soames-"I am afraid Mr Smith, that the principles and standards on which you and I were brought up to believe in, are no longer part of this world".
suryavajra,to your question-"America had no interest in or desire to do anything about Rhodesia"pg113,TGB;but they had an interest to back Unita in Angola against the communist Russians and Cuban;once again selfish interst-OIL.And Vietnam is still communist,okay they saved a few lives there but how many lives have been lost in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe as a result of their policy against us,over a hundred thousand let alone our people's lives and dreams-shattered.
All you have to do is listen to the words of the song on this video - its all right......including the end....and it was composed and sung in 1978.....
I get your point. But my question, and I realize that I mistyped it earlier, is what would you have wanted the US to do for Rhodesia during the Bush War??
Get their balls out of their handbags, stand up to the English, provide political support and acceptance for Rhodesia and lift sanctions....nothing else. Rhodesia was wealthy, self sufficient with a strong currency and reserves.
And there's on other factor to consider. When the Americans did talk to Rhodesia it was through the Vorster government in Pretoria. And this is also in the Great Betrayal.
Didn't the South African government also play a big part in the betrayal?? I mean they led Ian Smith on that the Rhodesians enjoyed their unquaified support.
No - it wasn't. Carter actually visited Rhodesia on a very low key visit (1978) - and delivered his ultimatum. The British did not want Rhodesia independant and the US would support them regardless.
The South Africans played a prominent role but would have changed direction and been hugely pro active in support if the USA had accepted Rhodesia politically and lifted sanctions. All the USA had to do was take the lead without UK political bias......sadly it didn't.
Personally Bsrcr, I have no idea why the US allowed its own policy to be subsumed by the British. Perhaps it's because US Policymakers felt that they didn't want to go against the #1 NATO ally for the sake of an African state?? I'm not defending it, mind you. I'm just trying to find out what happened...
AGAIN:FROM THE GREAT BETRAYAL BY IAN SMITH PAGE 409
"Finally,let me once again refer to what must go down in history as one of the most devious and blatantly dishonest actions of a British Government: The failure to abide by the terms of the Lancaster House agreement concerning the 1980 election."Quote Lord Soames-"I am afraid Mr Smith, that the principles and standards on which you and I were brought up to believe in, are no longer part of this world".
Bsrcgrieve you are my man,as a fellow ex Rhodesiag we are on the same wave lenth.The Great Betrayal is my Bible-what pertubes me is Americas selfish role in backing Britain against Rhodesia in exchange for their support in backing America in their Vietnam war-Page113.Did Clem Tholet record this adapted version?Check out my song for Rhodesia /Zimbabwe-Free Our Souls- on the web,I think you will like the lyrics from the original 'Drift Away'-keep up the good work
Good comments - The British abandoned their parental duties to the Rhodesian people and like a betrayed abandoned child- I will never forgive them and take every opportunity to remind them of their greatest dereliction of duty and responsibility (that we know about...).The British Government is now facing their own enemies...and this time no Rhodesian that knows of their betrayal of Rhodesia or their treachery will help them. Catch us once shame on them, catch us twice -shame on us all.......
garylerouex, i understand that you are angry at American policy, and personally it was a violation of the President Truman's and President Kennedy's Cold War doctrine to not back you guys when you were facing infiltration by pro-communist groups like ZANU and ZAPU??
But my question to you is this. What would have had the American government do with regards to Rhodesia, Considering that we were giving massive aid and firepower for South Vietnam against their communist problem??
Suryavajra-who are you really?I follow your comments around the site and they all point to you being a part of the US machine ?as for your question:-all the USA had to do, and Ian Smith literally begged them, was to lift sanctions-because then the world would follow. Henry Kissinger wept when he discussed this with Ian Smith-because in Rhodesia he saw - another Israel. But the USA stuck to their ideology instead of the facts. The USA and Britain killed the most successful African state ever.
Of course there was something - either US President would have listened to his proposals....read Ian Smiths book - he details the meetings and how the Americans failed to stand by him. All he needed was "acceptance" and the rest of the world would have followed including Britain. The Americans wanted to stand by the British and demonstrate willingness to the third world Organisation Of African Unity (OAU). The Americans simply wouldn't get their balls out of the handbag. They failed Rhodesia.
12th December, 1966 By Brigadier John Enoch Powell, MBE -
".......We have now stood up in the face of the world and told a big, black, bold, brazen lie. The Foreign Secretary of Britain on your behalf has declared that in your opinion Rhodesia constitutes a danger to stability and peace in central and southern Africa.How Dr. Goebbels would have relished that one; it is the very spit and image of Nazi technique...."
Again-PLEASE, please take a moment to EMAIL this video to a few friends or people who may be interested. Perhaps, perhaps the British conscience will be pricked...send to the Editor of your local newspaper,the producer at your TV station or anyone that may take interest...it is very very unfair and unreasonable that an entire people were displaced simply by the British desire to appease the Organisation of African Unity and the Americans who simply didn't want to have another"Israel"in Africa...
AGAIN:FROM THE GREAT BETRAYAL BY IAN SMITH PAGE 409
"Finally,let me once again refer to what must go down in history as one of the most devious and blatantly dishonest actions of a British Government: The failure to abide by the terms of the Lancaster House agreement concerning the 1980 election."Quote Lord Soames-"I am afraid Mr Smith, that the principles and standards on which you and I were brought up to believe in, are no longer part of this world".
I don't know if it is. If you search online for "The Great Betrayal by Ian Smith Online", it will provide you with all the sources, book reviews, web links etc. It is a real eye opener and the factual account of the treachery of Britain against Rhodesia and Rhodesians.....which continues. It will leave you with a bitter taste for Britain and the British Government that will linger with you long after you have read and finished the book...........and eternal doubt on British credibility......
President Robert Mugabe's crony Gideon Gono remains in control of the central bank.The seizure of white-owned farms continues.Opposition activists remain jailed.The clampdown on media freedoms goes on:the BBC and CNN are still banned from the country and foreign journalists have to work undercover. International donors wait on the sidelines.
Quote Mr Crispin Blunt British MP 27 Feb 2009 - In Parliament - As reported in The Independent - On the simple case of one person (Binyam Mohammed...) not even a whole country like Rhodesia...
"The country is owed an account of what happened nothing does more to undermine our fight against terrorism and violence [than] if we depart from the rule of law and the values we seek to defend."
WHAT VALUES - LORD SOAMES SAID THEY DIDN'T EXIST ANYMORE IN 1980 TO IAN SMITH -!!!!!
Quote from Winston Churchill Jnr (MP) Nov 78 - Letter to Margaret Thatcher (see Margaret Thatchers website)
"I regard it as the most heinous and despicable act of any British government this century to seek to hold down the peoples of Rhodesia with economic sanctions and the denial of even defensive weapons, thereby making it easier for the surrogates of the Soviet Union to overrun the country by force of arms. Feeling as I do, I could not do other than vote against the sanctions order. "
From a letter from Winston Churchill Jnr MP to Margaret Thatcher
"As you know, I believe strongly in Britain's responsibility for the future of the peoples of Rhodesia, black and white alike, in our moral obligation as a democracy to support the solution of the ballot box against the bullet, and in the debt of honour we owe to the countless thousands of Rhodesians who came to fight for Britain in her hour of peril.
"There is naturally deep concern in the House and in the country generally about the situation in Rhodesia. Rhodesia is the last sizeable territory of the British Empire which we have not yet been able to bring to legal independence. It is the Government's objective,as it has been our predecessors',that the principles of a non-discriminatory multi-racial society should be enshrined in all our former territories at the time we grant them independence"
Even to those who disbelieve the most, the extracts below from the official UK Parliamentary Records, The Lords Hansard, They reveal one thing very clearly:-THE BETRAYAL AND DECEIT OF AN ENTIRE NATION - THE RHODESIANS.
Hide behind your beaurocracy, ignore the history, pretend there were greater priorities...one fact screams out - in the words of Ian Smith -
Again-PLEASE, please take a moment to EMAIL this video to a few friends or people who may be interested. Perhaps, perhaps the British conscience will be pricked...send to the Editor of your local newspaper,the producer at your TV station or anyone that may take interest...it is very very unfair and unreasonable that an entire people were displaced simply by the British desire to appease the Organisation of African Unity and the Americans who simply didn't want to have another"Israel"in Africa...
Mugabe's constant theme is defending the "revolution". The gains he made after independence were massively funded by the West and a brigade of dedicated technocrats who have all since abandoned him. Now Zimbabwe will ask for the same aid, if not more - again.....talk about double dipping, stripping and kleptocracy.......
Very true. The West gave more money to Mugabe in the first couple of years of his rule than they ever gave to Ian Smith, which was effectivly ZERO....
Fewer than 300 white farmers are left in Zimbabwe, as opposed to 4,500 when the invasions began, and even then they have only small portions of their original landholdings left.
The CFU's director, Hendrik Olivier, said that the eviction campaign was accelerating and that its targets had £70 million worth of crops in the ground.
"About 100 are being done over now, maybe more. They are being fast-tracked for eviction and others are being forced out," he said.
AGAIN:FROM THE GREAT BETRAYAL BY IAN SMITH PAGE 409
"Finally,let me once again refer to what must go down in history as one of the most devious and blatantly dishonest actions of a British Government: The failure to abide by the terms of the Lancaster House agreement concerning the 1980 election."Quote Lord Soames-"I am afraid Mr Smith, that the principles and standards on which you and I were brought up to believe in, are no longer part of this world".
12th December, 1966 By Brigadier John Enoch Powell, MBE -
".......We have now stood up in the face of the world and told a big, black, bold, brazen lie. The Foreign Secretary of Britain on your behalf has declared that in your opinion Rhodesia constitutes a danger to stability and peace in central and southern Africa.How Dr. Goebbels would have relished that one; it is the very spit and image of Nazi technique...."
I do not suppose anyone else will say/hope that the negotiations break down.If they break down,the Rhodesian Government can be left to get on with their own business and win their own war.I believe that they can do so.What we and South Africa should do is to confine ourselves to exerting such power as we have to assert international law and to stop criminal intervention from outside Rhodesia's frontiers.If we do that for her,she can be left to look after herself.
Mugabe your losing allies Dictators in Africa your time is running out time for you to go. Bye, bye Muggergabe
idrobinhood 11 months ago
Rhodesia and the Rhodesian's were sold out by a weak British Labour government. Harold Wilson was a spineless reptile. I grew up in southern England. At only ten years old (1972) I recall reading in the papers the strife of Rhodesia. If I would have been old anough, I would have fought for them. Too bad it's run by a corrupt baboon now!
bill5936 11 months ago
out of curiosity, what could the British have done better when pulling out of Africa? I guess they could have engaged in bloody conflict like the French did, that would have turned out nicer I guess. I keep forgetting what an egalitarian Utopia Africa was before the Europeans arrived
TheRhinehart86 1 year ago
great song and very true,, Rhodesians if you are out there, what do you want to do? Do you want Rhodesia back or are you all just happy to fade away!!!!!!! It is time to form a new Government, in excile if need be, but the time is now to start acting, your support is growing!!!! ACT NOW!!!!!!
whiteozzie1 1 year ago
Happy Independence Day to all fellow Rhodesians; November 11th-The day we stood up to Britain's perfidity.
garylerouex 1 year ago
The United Nations' Human Developement Index has ranked Zimbabwe the least desirable country in the world in which to live in;Norway being the most desirable to live in. It is of interest to note that a close black South African friend expressed to me her desire to get an education and live in Rhodesia in the early sixties having heard of our high standards, despite the bad rap the western media gave our country about our "oppressed blacks."
garylerouex 1 year ago
shame on you england.
preludefan 1 year ago
I don't blame the people. Most Zimbabweans are hardworking, honest and nice people. It's that piece of shit Mugabe, Zanu PF and their fellow cronies that have taken the Once called "Basket of Africa" to a Basket Case.
Lousypenguin 1 year ago
With all due respect to those affected by the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, they can barely imagine the pain inflicted by the betrayal on our Rhodesian nation with our very soul ripped out of us and no compensation whatsoever. The American politician, Pat Buchanan once so aptly said. "There is no greater loss than the loss of one's country." Thanks Wilson and thanks LBJ.
garylerouex 1 year ago
Black majority rule was inevitable in Rhodesia. I understand though the grief whites must have felt handing it over to a thug like Mugabe.
jvarela965 1 year ago
This is what the Left does to any nation.
NickB1967 1 year ago
The USA has fallen ill with criminals, thugs, frauds. We have lost the Republic to the enemies of Freedom, Liberty, Truth, an Justice....
Mugabe way of government and leadership has been adopted by the Obama Regime. Blacks are destroyers or nations and white people.
idrobinhood 1 year ago
my conflick ended 30 years ago in mukumbura but is still alive in my heart as are my comrades.look at the world today i would rather go back 30 years
greenmamba2788 1 year ago 6
I'm sorry Rhodesia, I would've fought for you! From a Yank who is now awake! We seem to be on a path of destuction as well! God help us!!! Maranatha
chops4069871 1 year ago 7
That's okay I smell another Great War on the Horizon Pommies and Yanks only this time fight it yourselves I will not fight for you this time even if it means fighting for the Russians. Just so that you know my heart is in the right place this time, I will not make the same mistake my forfarthers made. Your great betrayal of Rhodesia and South Africa has not gone by un-noticed. We Rhodies are having the last laugh now.
Sunclief 2 years ago 6
I don't blame you mate our government is criminal. Britain needs a revolution.
GodwinCarpenter 2 years ago 14
@GodwinCarpenter totally agree britain should hold her head in shame
kevk57 1 year ago
@Sunclief
Sorry to hear that Sunclief....I sympathize and understand with your anger. Wish I had been around back then to say something.
suryavajra 1 year ago
From Zim to New Zealand:
By Myfanwy van Hoffen
Published: 1:01PM BST 13 Oct 2009
"By the time I left Zimbabwe I was devastated, overwhelmed by a sense of huge loss. First my birthrights had gone - my citizenship, my vote and my passport. Next my husband, cancer taking its too-early toll. His death left me vulnerable, a woman alone on a big property, the inevitable target of thieves and car-jackers, so I had to sell my home". Extract from her story - great read - easy to find by name search.
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
@Bsrcrgrieve
It brings tears to my eyes to hear about the suffering of this woman....I have heard that they might bring Zim back into the Commonwealth. What a spineless and cowardly way out for them!!
Perfidious Albion....
suryavajra 1 year ago
@Bsrcrgrieve
I'm listening to her audio. What a remarkable woman!! Very gentle accent. Interesting though that she ran for election for the Rhodesia Party against the Rhodesian Front...
suryavajra 1 year ago
Robert Mugabe: will Zimbabwe be let back into Commonwealth?By Graham Boynton
Published: 8:00AM GMT 28 Nov 2009
Despite setting new standards of tyrannical rule, socio-economic destruction and spectacular accumulation of personal wealth on a continent whose political leaders have cornered the market in such political malfeasance, Mugabe has managed not only to hang onto power but now appears to be a candidate for rehabilitation.
UNBELIEVABLE!
PERFIDIOUS ALBION
TREACHEROUS BRITAIN !
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
(Extract) From a recent email to the sister of Pete Battershill KIA Rhodesia -
"Our lives were stolen, our youth taken away and in many cases permanently. Our parents and family members died unhappy and prematurely - all because of the treachery of the British Government in failing to uphold the terms of the Lancaster House agreement. That's why the French call them "Perfidious Albion" - Treacherous Britain.
Never forget, never forgive.....
All good."
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
Yeah Suryavajra: if you spell my name like that again you may get deported on arrival!!LOL
garylerouex 2 years ago
gary, sorry about that!!! That's my bad!! Didn't mean that....Sometimes the old keyboard gets all stuck...LOL!!
suryavajra 2 years ago 2
Suryavajra; thank you for the kind rememberance of our independence day. At this rate you may have to renounce your American citizenship in favour of Rhodesian!LOL.
garylerouex 2 years ago
You're very welcome, gayrylerouex!! LOL!
I tell you what, if there was still a Rhodesia I'd have my bags packed and I'll be read to go!
suryavajra 2 years ago 2
Well said too Bsrcrgrieve; I remember many retired Rhodesians having to work as flat managers in South Africa; they were miserable and went to their graves early. You know I will not forget nor forgive Perfidious Albion for the ethnic cleansing of us
garylerouex 2 years ago
Let us pause and remember the eleventh of November 1965, the day we chose to declare our Independence from Britain because she reneged on her promise a few years prior to give it to us and the consequences or her perfidity have been dire.
garylerouex 2 years ago
Great comment - well said. Countless Rhodesians have gone to their graves early due to the treachery of the British Government. This was genocide of the Rhodesian people by "another means". Almost the entire Rhodesian nation was displaced by this British treachery and yet they have never been held accountable - the last few Rhodesians need to ponder this - never forget, never forgive.
Perfidious Albion - Treacherous Britain......
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
Bscrgrieve, I think a major part of the problem is because most of us on the outside never heard this history. I didn't until recently, and even then books on the matter are extremely difficult to come by. Hence information is controlled, and we never got both sides of the story.
suryavajra 2 years ago
Bscrcrgrieve, keep up the fight, my friend.
suryavajra 2 years ago 2
hi gary, long time no speak. I shall remember the 11th of November....
suryavajra 2 years ago
Finland has just been ranked first on the "Prosperity Index", the U.S ninth, the U.K twelfth.........and yes you guessed it Zimbabwe was ranked worst.
i have no doubt Rhodesia would have placed in the top ten back in the day.
garylerouex 2 years ago 4
Thanks for the Video - I like your truth - it's overdue!
natforgood 2 years ago
Absolutely right Bsrcrgrieve; with responsible governance since 1923 untill 1965 and then with adverse conditions,sanctions and a revolution from 1965 -1979 Ian Smith and Rhodesia would have claimed that prize without a shadow of a doubt.
garylerouex 2 years ago 3
Does anyone govern well in Africa?£3m leadership prize goes begging
David Smith The Guardian, Wednesday 21 October 2009 Article historyThe Mo Ibrahim Foundation's announcement this week that it could not find anyone worthy of its £3m African leadership prize appears a damning verdict on the state of governance on the continent.
One has to say that Ian Smith and Rhodesia would, without a doubt have qualified. Thanks Britain.........or should I say Perfidious Albion......
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
And this reminds me of the 80's,when Mugabe's "new businessmen" were dished out with import licenses;but they sold these to established businessmen and squandered their proceeds on beer and women,nothing to show for themselves except a higher HIV/AIDS infection rate;whilst we the povos had no choice but to "illegally import" the country's desperately needed business commodities and risked "so called criminal convictions" How Bizarre!!
garylerouex 2 years ago
Having stolen our farmland,Mugabe's so called "new farmers" are given free seeds,fertilizers and fuel;yet they generally sell these to pay for busfare to town;ironically to buy food. How Bizarre!!
garylerouex 2 years ago 2
Mugabe is now saying it is OK for the white farmers to come back. LOL. Bobby you had your chance. Now your people must suffer the consequences of your short-sighted stupidity and starve.
LoungeLizardLouie 2 years ago 3
awsome
Madraskings 2 years ago
Suryavajra;it came out in '02 on CNN,it is great to hear a black student backing up Ian Smith's famous expression.
garylerouex 2 years ago 2
Let us not forget the words of the black student being interviewed by CNN at the University of Zimbabwe during the stolen elections in 2002 and I quote"When Ian Smith said never in a 1000 years will there be majority rule;I TRULY believe that he meant that there is a future for this country" Very interesting interpretation and for it he was expelled from the faculty.Our country needs more people like him.GOOD MAN whereever he is today.
garylerouex 2 years ago 5
hi garylerouex, would you know where I could find that clip??
suryavajra 2 years ago
Take a few seconds and email this video link to your local newspaper, editor, MP and who ever else needs their conscience pricked......it won't do anything but make you feel better and remind those who participated what a mess it made when Mugabe was allowed to take over. We at least owe that to those good solid Rhodesians who have died and to those whose lives were ruined......
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
It is sad when Americans themselves believe their country is going the same way Rhodesia went due to past and current policies and many are arming themselves to the teeth.
garylerouex 2 years ago 2
now America is in the same position brew
pfcsusczynski 2 years ago 2
A shock was in store for the Rhodesian people, however, for when the Constitution was published by the British Government, it included a section which had not appeared in the White Papers. This Section III. It gave the British Government the power to amend or revoke many sections of the Constitution, including sections referring to the powers and duties of the Governor, the Sovereign's position in the Legislature, ....another example of......."Perfidious Albion!!" - Treacherous Britain (govt)!
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
FYI -
Rhodesia had been a self-governing British Crown colony since 1923, and before that had been administered by a commercial company under a Royal Charter. At no time had she been ruled by the Colonial Office, been administered by British Government officials or been occupied by British troops. The reason for these departures from normal British practice lies in the earliest years of Rhodesia's existence.
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
(continued from below) /..."and seeking to promote the common good so that the dignity and freedom of all men may be assured, do, by this proclamation, adopt enact and give to the people of Rhodesia the constitution annexed hereto;
God Save The Queen
Given under Our Hand at Salisbury this eleventh day of November in the Year of Our Lord one thousand nine hundred and sixty five.
THE GOVERNMENT OF RHODESIA
Hon. Ian Douglas Smith - Prime Minister of Rhodesia "
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
"Now therefore, we the Government of Rhodesia, in humble submission to Almighty God who controls the destinies of nations, conscious that the people of Rhodesia have always shown unswerving loyalty and devotion to Her Majesty the Queen and earnestly praying that we and the people of Rhodesia will not be hindered in our determination to continue exercising our undoubted right to demonstrate the same loyalty and devotion" (continued above) /...
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
Preamble to The UDI - "Whereas in the course of human affairs history has shown that it may become necessary for a people to resolve the political affiliations which have connected them with another people and to assume amongst other nations the separate and equal status to which they are entitled:
And whereas in such event a respect for the opinions of mankind requires them to declare to other nations the causes which impel them to assume full responsibility for their own affairs:"
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
From The Rhodesian Declaration of Independance 11 November 1965 - a few more lines...
"Now therefore, we, the Government of Rhodesia, do hereby declare:
That it is an indisputable and accepted historic fact that since 1923 the Government of Rhodesia have exercised the powers of self-government and have been responsible for the progress, development and welfare of their people;"
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
"That the government of the United Kingdom have demonstrated that they are not prepared to grant sovereign independence to Rhodesia on terms acceptable to the people of Rhodesia, thereby persisting in maintaining an unwarrantable jurisdiction over Rhodesia,obstructing laws and treaties with other states and the conduct of affairs with other nations and refusing assent to laws necessary for the public good, all this to the detriment of the future peace, prosperity and good government of Rhodesia"
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
That the Government of Rhodesia have for a long period patiently and in good faith negotiated with the Government of the United Kingdom for the removal of the remaining limitations placed upon them and for the grant of sovereign independence;
That in the belief that procrastination and delay strike at and injure the very life of the nation,the Government of Rhodesia consider it essential that Rhodesia should attain, without delay, sovereign independence, the justice of which is beyond question;
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
From The Rhodesian Declaration of Independance 11 November 1965 - a few more lines...
"That the people of Rhodesia have witnessed a process which is destructive of those very precepts upon which civilization in a primitive country has been built, they have seen the principles of Western democracy, responsible government and moral standards crumble elsewhere, nevertheless they have remained steadfast;"
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
From The Rhodesian Declaration of Independance 11 November 1965 -
"That the people of Rhodesia having demonstrated their loyalty to the Crown and to their kith and kin in the United Kingdom and elsewhere through two world wars, and having been prepared to shed their blood and give of their substance in what they believed to be the mutual interests of freedom-loving people, now see all that they have cherished about to be shattered on the rocks of expediency;"
And it was....thanks to?
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
From the US Declaration of Independance:-
"The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over these states. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world".
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
From The Institute of Commonwealth Studies -On 11 November 1965, Ian Smith, the Rhodesian Prime Minister, and his Cabinet broke away from the Queen and the British Government, unilaterally declaring independence.This was the first time a British colony had done so since America in 1776 and it caused reverberations not only in Britain, but throughout the world.
If you were born in Rhodesia before 1965(UDI) then does this make you a British Citizen???most probably by their own admission.
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
and more from Ian Smith from same source ""There is no doubt that the talk of threats and sanctions is no more than appeasement to the United Nations, the Afro-Asian bloc, and certain members of the Commonwealth;
But I cannot conceive of a rational world uniting in an endeavour to destroy the economy of this country, knowing, as they undoubtedly do, that in many cases the hardest hit will be the very people on whose behalf they would like to believe they- are invoking these sanctions".
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
And more "There will be no happiness in this country, while the absurd situation continues to exist where people such as ourselves, who have ruled ourselves with an impressive record for over 40 years, are denied what is freely granted to other countries, who have ruled themselves in some cases for no longer than a year.
Whatever the short-term economic disadvantages may be, in the long term steady economic progress could never be achieved unless we are masters in our own house..."
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
East Africa and Rhodesia Newspaper, November 18, 1965, pp. 204-205.
Quote Ian Smith "Neither let it be thought that this event marks a diminution in the opportunities which our African people have to advance and prosper in Rhodesia. Far from this being the case, it is our intention, in consultation with the chiefs, to bring them into the Government and administration as the acknowledged leaders of the African people on a basis acceptable to them".
So much for calling Rhodesians rascists ...
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
East Africa and Rhodesia Newspaper, November 18, 1965, pp. 204-205.
Quote Ian Smith "It has become abundantly clear that it is the policy of the British Government to play us along with no real intention of arriving at a solution which we could possibly accept. Indeed, in the latest verbal and confidential message delivered to me last night we find that on the main principle which is in dispute the two Governments have moved further apart".
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
Extract From The United Staes Declaration of Independence-"Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies;and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States.He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people"
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
Perfide Albion est une expression péjorative française courante désignant l'Angleterre et,par extension,la Grande-Bretagne et le Royaume-Uni.Après l'Entente cordiale,de nombreux efforts ont été consentis pour améliorer les relations entre les deux pays,mais sous couvert d'humour,l'expression "perfide Albion" resurgit régulièrement.Dans le quotidien Le Monde,Marc Roche, correspondant à Londres, mentionne l'usage de cette expression par Bossuet au XVIIe siècle.
"Treacherous Britain!"
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
"The Monckton Report of September 1960 pointed to factors which were aggravating relations between the territories (Rhodesia & Nyasaland) and which could of been handled. But then almost nonchalantly made the 'suggestion' that the British government should be prepared to permit secession. This, of course, was Machiavellian, and in total conflict with the repeated agreements and promises of the British government.
-Ian Smith, the Bitter Harvest, Pg. 40
suryavajra 2 years ago
The reasons the French referred to the UK Government as "Perfidious Albion" - Treacherous Britain have not changed in over 400 years....
"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose ..."
"perfidious" signifies one who does not keep his faith or word, while "Albion" is the Ancient Greek name for Britain
The use of the adjective "perfidious" to describe Britain has a long history; instances have been found as far back as the 13th century.
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
The reasons the French referred to the UK Government as "Perfidious Albion" - Treacherous Britain have not changed in over 400 years....
"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose ..."
"perfidious" signifies one who does not keep his faith or word, while "Albion" is the Ancient Greek name for Britain
The use of the adjective "perfidious" to describe Britain has a long history; instances have been found as far back as the 13th century
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
Where is the Telegraph when it is needed......
What happened to the money provided to Zimbabwe - just this year alone - who is accountable, who is responsible, where has it gone......
Which politicians - have benefited from it ???
What a motley crew these politicians - gicving to each other across muddy waters. You scratch my back and I will scratch yours.....
Routing money like this is not clever, not even smart. Just "shonky".....
Perfidious Albion - Treacherous Britain
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
UK announces £5m aid for Zimbabwe
BBC - 22/6
British Prime Minister Gordon Brown has announced an extra £5m ($8m) of aid to Zimbabwe. This takes the total this year to £60m ($98m).
And the world stands by again..The UK refused all help to independant Rhodesia and brought them to their knees. This is just another way of getting funds to your own "shonky" politicians again -isn't it ? Money rerouted through a failed state. Any Intelligence officer can see this...."Perfidious Albion"
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
Perfidious Albion, indeed. Brcrgrieve, it took me awhile, but I agree with that assessment whole heartledly...
suryavajra 2 years ago
God bless Winston Churchill Jnr for standing up to the perfidity of his fellow politicians and voting against sanctions o Rhodesia.Bsrcrgrieve, are you aware of the votecount,for and against sanctions on us by Perfidious Albion.
garylerouex 2 years ago
(cont)
to the level of the British government'
From: Bitter Harvest (Pg. 112) by Ian Douglas Smith
suryavajra 2 years ago
"The depths to which the British government were prepared to descend in their vindictiveness were disclosed in their action in stopping the payment of their British pensioners living in Rhodesia. I responded by making the decision that not only would we continue to pay the Rhodesian pensioners in Britain, but that we would also pay the British pensioners living in Rhodesia who had been forsaken by their own government: 'two wrongs do not make a right-we will not descend (cont.)
suryavajra 2 years ago 2
Quote from Winston Churchill Jnr (MP) Nov 78 - Letter to Margaret Thatcher (see Margaret Thatchers website)
"I regard it as the most heinous and despicable act of any British government this century to seek to hold down the peoples of Rhodesia with economic sanctions and the denial of even defensive weapons, thereby making it easier for the surrogates of the Soviet Union to overrun the country by force of arms. Feeling as I do, I could not do other than vote against the sanctions order. "
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
The American press accused us Rhodesians as being a racist society,yet they had their forced bussing policy.We had a gradual process of integration based on merit.I grew up in Southerton,Salisbury and by 1974 in our suburb we were English,Afrikaaners,Portuguese,Coloureds and Blacks and we got on very well together;so don't believe the lie the world has tried to deceive you with.
garylerouex 2 years ago 4
Good advice Robinhood!Desmond Tutu actually has been quite voiceferous against Mugabe lately,calling for military action against him.Where was he 30-40 years ago when we needed him most?;preaching up "black conciousness" which is a direct form of racism as they follow a cause irrespect of the detrimental consequences to the people all in the name of the colour of one's skin.
garylerouex 2 years ago 4
Please stop all donations to Zimbabwe. Any website that has a supportZimbabwe must not be donated to. Funds ends up not for the people but for the leader Mugabe.
Even the sites that have by word or photo of Desmond Tutu that supportsZimbabwe are funds for Mugabe, and his one communist party.
idrobinhood 2 years ago 17
AGAIN:FROM THE GREAT BETRAYAL BY IAN SMITH PAGE 409
"Finally,let me once again refer to what must go down in history as one of the most devious and blatantly dishonest actions of a British Government: The failure to abide by the terms of the Lancaster House agreement concerning the 1980 election."Quote Lord Soames-"I am afraid Mr Smith, that the principles and standards on which you and I were brought up to believe in, are no longer part of this world".
PERFIDIOUS ALBION-TREACHEROUS BRITAIN!
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
Suryavajra,damn straight the Gurkhas are furious;the British can't keep using and abusing people and then spitting them out when they don't need them.They did the same to us as we fought valiantly for them in the 1st and 2nd world wars.
garylerouex 2 years ago 3
your people and mine, garyleroux. My grandad fought in WW2, but like the rest of the mighty British Indian Army he didn't recieve his pension that UK soldiers recieved.
Let me elaborate on your statement. The British keep abusing the Commonwealth. And the Commonwealth falls for this shit every damn time. Sorry for the swearing, but did you know that there are many Indian Army veterans from the war that live in poverty today??
suryavajra 2 years ago 3
"Given the headlong rush of the Macmillan government in Britain in 1959 to be rid of its colonies, Rhodesia should have been the first African colony in line for independence. Rhodesia was self-governing, and possessed most powers, including the right of self-defense. Being in the condition of New Zealand before the grant of dominion status, it seemed logical that Rhodesia would become a dominion. "
From the Introduction to book "So Far And No Further" by Prof JRT Wood
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
"THE PEOPLE OF SOUTHERN RHODESIA HAVE THEMSELVES A RECORD OF LOYALTY AND PATRIOTISM SECOND TO NONE WITHIN THE POSSESSIONS AND PROTECTORATES OF THE CROWN: AND THEY HAVE PROVED THEMSELVES IN TIMES OF WAR, AND IN TIMES OF PEACE, WORTHY OF THE CONFIDENCE OF HIS MAJESTY'S GOVERNMENT".(WINSTON CHURCHILL)-EXTRACTED FROM THE BUXTON REPORT TO THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT.from the book-The Rhodesian problem: a documentary record,1923-1973
-Elaine Windrich Publisher Routledge 1975 ISBN 0710080808, 9780710080806
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
Another British Betrayal,the Gurkas who fought in wars for Britain as far back as Burma are finally getting settlement rights.Just like us Rhodesians(black and white)they tried to disown us.5 stars for Joanna Lumley for standing up for the Gurkas.Bsrcrgrieve's words just keep ringing in my ear-PERFIDIOUS ALBION-TREACHEROUS BRITAIN!!
garylerouex 2 years ago 2
garyleroux, I heard her on BBC...
The Gurkhas are rightly furious about all of this....The Brits say it is impossible to for 100,000 Gurkhas and their families to emmigrate to Britain?! WTF??
suryavajra 2 years ago 4
He should die
Wonderkid44 2 years ago 3
Blood Diamonds in Zimbabwe.Mugabe has just had his army execute over 150 miners trying to make an existence in Manicaland.If the world will get it's act together this is a carbon copy case of what got Sadaam Hussein convicted and executed
garylerouex 2 years ago 5
AGAIN:FROM THE GREAT BETRAYAL BY IAN SMITH PAGE 409
"Finally,let me once again refer to what must go down in history as one of the most devious and blatantly dishonest actions of a British Government: The failure to abide by the terms of the Lancaster House agreement concerning the 1980 election."Quote Lord Soames-"I am afraid Mr Smith, that the principles and standards on which you and I were brought up to believe in, are no longer part of this world".
PERFIDIOUS ALBION-TREACHEROUS BRITAIN!
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
Suryavajra,Britain had already thrown away her other territories in Africa.She now felt she had to appease the newly independant Afican States and give in to their demands.Britain had promised Rhodesia our independance under our constitution at the time;but reneged on it
garylerouex 2 years ago 3
But why appease, garyleroux?? What could they tangibly achieve by appeasing these new states??
suryavajra 2 years ago
S - You need to read a bit more. The OAU had been given authority and responsibility in Africa. In order to court them and provide them with status it was necessary for the British to suck up to them constantly - even when they were wrong. read Heidi Holland's book "Dinner with Mugabe". The OAU call for unilateral support of one another - regardless of right or wrong. So, they just stand together.......and the British accepted this, tolerated it, and allowed it to continue - Perfidious Albion...
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
Oh and S - just one more thing. You will know the saying "All that is needed for evil men to succeed is that good men do nothing.....". They did nothing - and evil succeeded. Perfidious Albion - Treacherous Britain.
The sidewalks of history will be littered with this dirty graffitti and scream it out obscenely from every unsuspecting neat and tidy surface - for ever.
"Perfidious Albion -
Treacherous Britain...."
And Rhodesia and every Rhodesian remains Britains dirty little secret.....
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
But what did the OAU offer to the British??? What do the British get out of it? Surely they stood to gain something in this arrangement??
suryavajra 2 years ago
The British simply did not want to upset the "natives" they had just empowered by undermining their desires and wants....read the books.
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
sure...will do.
suryavajra 2 years ago
Byt the Brits had been doing that ofr hundreds of years....Why did they start to now to not upset the "natives"??
suryavajra 2 years ago
S - Come on mate. You're from Indian stock. You should be able to answer that one yourself.....
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
which is why I'm asking. :))
The British donot offer anything for free. There is always a price....
The history of India is especially telling...
suryavajra 2 years ago
Suryavajra,Britain betrayed Rhodesia because they are DEVIOUS, PERFIDIOUS,and TREACHEROUS!
garylerouex 2 years ago 5
garyleroux, but there has to be a reason to act on their deviousness and treachery...LOL!
I mean nobody is treacherous just ofr its own sake....there has to be an aim or a motive. For instance Britain didnot just betray Czechoslovakia in 1938 because they wanted to be devious or acting on impulses...Chaimberlain justfied it as the way to keep peace in his time.
So I guess I want to know the underlying reason for betraying Rhodesia...
suryavajra 2 years ago
Suryavajra,,to your previous comment ,it just goes to show that the US failed Rhodesia miserably by not defending communist infiltration.The US considers Hamas as a terrorist organization;what less of a terrorist organization was/is Zanla and Zipra and the attrocities that they commited and still are committing?Double standards and betrayal!They played right into the hand of their bed buddy Britain.
garylerouex 2 years ago 4
suryavajra,we built Rhodesia from scratch in 1890 and within a few decades it became a modern civilized country through sheer hard work and determination.Ian Smith was a true national of Rhodesia and defended Britain valiantly in the 2nd world war.He was a man of vision and prolonged the communist takeover by fifteen years;and I don't think it can be replicated again.Treacherous Britain have sold and betrayed their kith and kin.
garylerouex 2 years ago 5
gary....I always wanted to know why Britain betrayed Rhodesia. Do you think the Brits saw Rhodesia as a threat to their mineral interests in Africa?? Was it a sense of vengeance because Smith had the audacity to go through with UDI??
suryavajra 2 years ago
AGAIN:FROM THE GREAT BETRAYAL BY IAN SMITH PAGE 409
"Finally,let me once again refer to what must go down in history as one of the most devious and blatantly dishonest actions of a British Government: The failure to abide by the terms of the Lancaster House agreement concerning the 1980 election."Quote Lord Soames-"I am afraid Mr Smith, that the principles and standards on which you and I were brought up to believe in, are no longer part of this world".
PERFIDIOUS ALBION-TREACHEROUS BRITAIN!
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
suryavajra,thanks for the kind sentiments for Rhodesia.The shops were laden with goods for ALL.There was an abundance of prosperity.The country today reminds me of a trip I took to Mozambique in the 80's where the stores were empty.That's Marxist rule for you and that's why it burns my soul that the US did not help us.Communism is rife in Africa today,with China the new colonial ruler.Rhodesia could have been the power house in Africa today
garylerouex 2 years ago 4
You're very welcome, gary!! the more I hear about Rhodesia, the more fascinated I am.
It leads me to ask this question of you. What was the secret to Rhodesia's Secret?? Was it laissez faire economics?? Was it free trade??
And what about Ian Smith?? Was he a conservative as We Americans would know him?? Was he a Rhodesian nationalist?? How did you build this great country and can it be replicated again??
suryavajra 2 years ago
gary, I don't know if this would make you feel better or worse, but I think that the fact that US didnot help Rhodesia constitutes a violation of the Truman and Kennedy Doctrines to intenrational relations. Both of those presidents, who happen to be Democrats by the way, argued that it was to the interest of the US that we defend any country that was threatened by communist inflitration...
Don't know what to say....
suryavajra 2 years ago
It's amazing to think that we could lose a war and our country ultimately,yet in just three days we eradicated almost 5000 communist terrorists(Chimoio,Nyandzonya and Westland Farm) Deveous Britain may have killed our nation but cannot kill our spirit;RHODESIANS NEVER DIE. PAMWE CHETE!
garylerouex 2 years ago
garylerouex, I regret that I was born after Rhodesia and will never get to see what the country was like back then....
PAMWE CHETE AND LEKKER GLIDE!!!
suryavajra 2 years ago
From the Speech at Wolverhampton,
12th December, 1966 By Brigadier John Enoch Powell, MBE -
".......We have now stood up in the face of the world and told a big, black, bold, brazen lie. The Foreign Secretary of Britain on your behalf has declared that in your opinion Rhodesia constitutes a danger to stability and peace in central and southern Africa.How Dr. Goebbels would have relished that one; it is the very spit and image of Nazi technique...."
Perfidious Albion - even he said it.
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
suryavajra,I don't know;but I had a neighbour from Germany who came to fight for us in '75 and we revered him for that.
garylerouex 2 years ago
We are very grateful to the brave decorated US soldiers and a few others from other nations who left their own causes to come help our 30000 heroes.Thank you!
garylerouex 2 years ago
garyteoux, I'ld like to read about those gys who came over to Rhodesia....Know where I can find out more???
What units did they serve in?? Was it in RLI 3-Commando??
suryavajra 2 years ago
Again-PLEASE, please take a moment to EMAIL this video to a few friends or people who may be interested. Perhaps, perhaps the British conscience will be pricked...send to the Editor of your local newspaper,the producer at your TV station or anyone that may take interest...it is very very unfair and unreasonable that an entire people were displaced simply by the British desire to appease the Organisation of African Unity and the Americans who simply didn't want to have another"Israel"in Africa...
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
AGAIN:FROM THE GREAT BETRAYAL BY IAN SMITH PAGE 409
"Finally,let me once again refer to what must go down in history as one of the most devious and blatantly dishonest actions of a British Government: The failure to abide by the terms of the Lancaster House agreement concerning the 1980 election."Quote Lord Soames-"I am afraid Mr Smith, that the principles and standards on which you and I were brought up to believe in, are no longer part of this world".
PERFIDIOUS ALBION-TREACHEROUS BRITAIN!
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
From the Speech at Wolverhampton,
12th December, 1966 By Brigadier John Enoch Powell, MBE -
".......We have now stood up in the face of the world and told a big, black, bold, brazen lie. The Foreign Secretary of Britain on your behalf has declared that in your opinion Rhodesia constitutes a danger to stability and peace in central and southern Africa.How Dr. Goebbels would have relished that one; it is the very spit and image of Nazi technique...."
Perfidious Albion - even he said it.
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
bsrcrgrieve,thanks for the update on the song on the video;I have the original record and lyric sheet and it ends-Democracy will bleed and there are two other word changes but yeah as you put at the end of video America is bleeding for failing to stop terrorismand they could have stopped the terrorism against Rhodesia if they had the balls to do so.
garylerouex 2 years ago
suryavajra,American troops in Rhodesia against communist Zanu PF would have been nice,but it would have sufficed if they shown morrality by not backing DEVIOUS Britain with sanctions on Rhodesai from day1 in 1968 and backing Rhodesia politically in our search for a negotiated settlement.
garylerouex 2 years ago
Excellent response.
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
I agree with you that the US should of recognized Rhodesa and acted as an intermediary between Britain and Rhodesia to reach a concensus between these two states....
Don't know if we could of sent American troops into Rhodesia considering the political climate of the 1960s, unless it was a clandestine effort.
But yes, we made a mistake in sending all of those soldiers, and all of that money and equipment to South Vietnam in an effort to save a country that couldn't save itself.
suryavajra 2 years ago
Did you know that several decorated US soldiers came and fought in Rhodesia in Special Forces and other units. They were so peeved by US and UK policies that they simply gave up in their own countries and came over. And although few, they fought like lions (look up the name of Bob McKenzie for instance). They were regulars not mercenaries and political acceptance would have meant that a few more might have volunteered. They, were Legends and did great work against the ZANU and ZAPU terrorists...
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
Bscr, I did know!!! I have great respect for those men and the Rhodesian units they served in...
There was an article written by one of these soldiers about Rhodesia. I'll have ot find it....I have it saved on my hard drive.
They mostly served in the RLI-3 Commando didn't they??
suryavajra 2 years ago
Perhaps you are right, and that if we sent just a fraction of the resources we sent to South Vietnam over to Rhodesia instead, there would still be a Rhodesia today...
suryavajra 2 years ago
S - it would not have been necessary for the USA to send any help. Just simple political acceptance of Rhodesia in defiance against Britains (arrogant and illogical, politically appeasing OAU satisficing) poorly judged policy and to stand by neutrally and do what the USA does best - act as an international referee for democracy, fairness, justice .....and of course liberty....but they didn't........
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
Bsrcr, I understand your point. And I agree with much of it. Personally I have no great love for the British and I have my own issues agains them.....
But let me ask you something....Do you think that any American politican would realistically have a mjor disagreement with British policy considering that they are the major partner in Europe and NATO??
suryavajra 2 years ago
For heavens sake.....isn't the USA the land of the free and the brave ? What does it say in your constitution ? Have you read your bill of rights ? Do you know what the British did to your own people ? Have you all forgotten so quickly ? I think Americans should look at their history with Britain and never forget "PERFIDIOUS ALBION". The French still distrust the English and stand logically against them politically when they try and force through unjust or wrong policy.
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
Bscr, I'm aware of all of the bad blood that Americans had for Britain back in the day.
But American policy-makers have a love affair with Britain. That's the short end of it. Regardless of what I may think and say, the American policymakers will continue on with their love affair with the British...
suryavajra 2 years ago
That is just about the truth of it. In the long run the difference between torture and prostitution is only a matter of the policy of the day......I'm not surprised there is so much hate against the USA and Britain across the Middle East and the world in fact. People take it that the words are in stone (at the bottom of the statue of liberty), but the words depend on who is reading them......sadly not the spirit in which the founding fathers wrote them.....
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
Bscr, look at all of the outrages and corrption in the US....
Let me ask you, would any of the Founding Fathers have tolderated a bailout of AIG??
Our politicians lack any imagination or vision. They are either corrupt conservatives or corrupt liberals. All of them kiss up to their narrow interests.
What I, or any other ordinary American says or thinks is irrelevant to them.
suryavajra 2 years ago
AGAIN:FROM THE GREAT BETRAYAL BY IAN SMITH PAGE 409
"Finally,let me once again refer to what must go down in history as one of the most devious and blatantly dishonest actions of a British Government: The failure to abide by the terms of the Lancaster House agreement concerning the 1980 election."Quote Lord Soames-"I am afraid Mr Smith, that the principles and standards on which you and I were brought up to believe in, are no longer part of this world".
PERFIDIOUS ALBION-TREACHEROUS BRITAIN!
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
suryavajra,to your question-"America had no interest in or desire to do anything about Rhodesia"pg113,TGB;but they had an interest to back Unita in Angola against the communist Russians and Cuban;once again selfish interst-OIL.And Vietnam is still communist,okay they saved a few lives there but how many lives have been lost in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe as a result of their policy against us,over a hundred thousand let alone our people's lives and dreams-shattered.
garylerouex 2 years ago
All you have to do is listen to the words of the song on this video - its all right......including the end....and it was composed and sung in 1978.....
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
hello garylerouex,
I get your point. But my question, and I realize that I mistyped it earlier, is what would you have wanted the US to do for Rhodesia during the Bush War??
suryavajra 2 years ago
Exactly what I have said several times now....
Get their balls out of their handbags, stand up to the English, provide political support and acceptance for Rhodesia and lift sanctions....nothing else. Rhodesia was wealthy, self sufficient with a strong currency and reserves.
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
And there's on other factor to consider. When the Americans did talk to Rhodesia it was through the Vorster government in Pretoria. And this is also in the Great Betrayal.
Didn't the South African government also play a big part in the betrayal?? I mean they led Ian Smith on that the Rhodesians enjoyed their unquaified support.
suryavajra 2 years ago
No - it wasn't. Carter actually visited Rhodesia on a very low key visit (1978) - and delivered his ultimatum. The British did not want Rhodesia independant and the US would support them regardless.
The South Africans played a prominent role but would have changed direction and been hugely pro active in support if the USA had accepted Rhodesia politically and lifted sanctions. All the USA had to do was take the lead without UK political bias......sadly it didn't.
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
Personally Bsrcr, I have no idea why the US allowed its own policy to be subsumed by the British. Perhaps it's because US Policymakers felt that they didn't want to go against the #1 NATO ally for the sake of an African state?? I'm not defending it, mind you. I'm just trying to find out what happened...
suryavajra 2 years ago
I remember reading also that Carter denied to greet Ian Smith when the latter sought to come to the US...
suryavajra 2 years ago
AGAIN:FROM THE GREAT BETRAYAL BY IAN SMITH PAGE 409
"Finally,let me once again refer to what must go down in history as one of the most devious and blatantly dishonest actions of a British Government: The failure to abide by the terms of the Lancaster House agreement concerning the 1980 election."Quote Lord Soames-"I am afraid Mr Smith, that the principles and standards on which you and I were brought up to believe in, are no longer part of this world".
PERFIDIOUS ALBION-TREACHEROUS BRITAIN!
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
Bsrcgrieve you are my man,as a fellow ex Rhodesiag we are on the same wave lenth.The Great Betrayal is my Bible-what pertubes me is Americas selfish role in backing Britain against Rhodesia in exchange for their support in backing America in their Vietnam war-Page113.Did Clem Tholet record this adapted version?Check out my song for Rhodesia /Zimbabwe-Free Our Souls- on the web,I think you will like the lyrics from the original 'Drift Away'-keep up the good work
garylerouex 2 years ago
Good comments - The British abandoned their parental duties to the Rhodesian people and like a betrayed abandoned child- I will never forgive them and take every opportunity to remind them of their greatest dereliction of duty and responsibility (that we know about...).The British Government is now facing their own enemies...and this time no Rhodesian that knows of their betrayal of Rhodesia or their treachery will help them. Catch us once shame on them, catch us twice -shame on us all.......
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
garylerouex, i understand that you are angry at American policy, and personally it was a violation of the President Truman's and President Kennedy's Cold War doctrine to not back you guys when you were facing infiltration by pro-communist groups like ZANU and ZAPU??
But my question to you is this. What would have had the American government do with regards to Rhodesia, Considering that we were giving massive aid and firepower for South Vietnam against their communist problem??
suryavajra 2 years ago
Suryavajra-who are you really?I follow your comments around the site and they all point to you being a part of the US machine ?as for your question:-all the USA had to do, and Ian Smith literally begged them, was to lift sanctions-because then the world would follow. Henry Kissinger wept when he discussed this with Ian Smith-because in Rhodesia he saw - another Israel. But the USA stuck to their ideology instead of the facts. The USA and Britain killed the most successful African state ever.
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
Bscr, I am an American, yes. Part of a machine?? I don't think so, my friend.
You also have to read that at the time Kissinger wept, Ford was going out of power, and Carter was coming in.... There was nothing Kissinger could do.
If it were me, I'd argue for the defense of Rhodesia. But I wasn't even born back then!!!
suryavajra 2 years ago
Of course there was something - either US President would have listened to his proposals....read Ian Smiths book - he details the meetings and how the Americans failed to stand by him. All he needed was "acceptance" and the rest of the world would have followed including Britain. The Americans wanted to stand by the British and demonstrate willingness to the third world Organisation Of African Unity (OAU). The Americans simply wouldn't get their balls out of the handbag. They failed Rhodesia.
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
Actually Carter wouldn't have listened....Where do you get this from?? Carter refused to me with Smith....
I agree that we should of helped Rhodesia. But failed Rhodesia??? I don't know if I'd go that far.
suryavajra 2 years ago
I would and so would every Rhodesian, now dying outside their homeland........
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
From the Speech at Wolverhampton,
12th December, 1966 By Brigadier John Enoch Powell, MBE -
".......We have now stood up in the face of the world and told a big, black, bold, brazen lie. The Foreign Secretary of Britain on your behalf has declared that in your opinion Rhodesia constitutes a danger to stability and peace in central and southern Africa.How Dr. Goebbels would have relished that one; it is the very spit and image of Nazi technique...."
Perfidious Albion - even he said it.
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
Again-PLEASE, please take a moment to EMAIL this video to a few friends or people who may be interested. Perhaps, perhaps the British conscience will be pricked...send to the Editor of your local newspaper,the producer at your TV station or anyone that may take interest...it is very very unfair and unreasonable that an entire people were displaced simply by the British desire to appease the Organisation of African Unity and the Americans who simply didn't want to have another"Israel"in Africa...
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
AGAIN:FROM THE GREAT BETRAYAL BY IAN SMITH PAGE 409
"Finally,let me once again refer to what must go down in history as one of the most devious and blatantly dishonest actions of a British Government: The failure to abide by the terms of the Lancaster House agreement concerning the 1980 election."Quote Lord Soames-"I am afraid Mr Smith, that the principles and standards on which you and I were brought up to believe in, are no longer part of this world".
PERFIDIOUS ALBION-TREACHEROUS BRITAIN!
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
Do you by any chance know if the book is available online?
Znaika1 2 years ago
I don't know if it is. If you search online for "The Great Betrayal by Ian Smith Online", it will provide you with all the sources, book reviews, web links etc. It is a real eye opener and the factual account of the treachery of Britain against Rhodesia and Rhodesians.....which continues. It will leave you with a bitter taste for Britain and the British Government that will linger with you long after you have read and finished the book...........and eternal doubt on British credibility......
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
From The Independent:-
Mugabe is winning battle for soul of Zimbabwe
Anne Penketh, Diplomatic Editor
Saturday,28 Feb 2009
President Robert Mugabe's crony Gideon Gono remains in control of the central bank.The seizure of white-owned farms continues.Opposition activists remain jailed.The clampdown on media freedoms goes on:the BBC and CNN are still banned from the country and foreign journalists have to work undercover. International donors wait on the sidelines.
WHATS NEW ??
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
Quote Mr Crispin Blunt British MP 27 Feb 2009 - In Parliament - As reported in The Independent - On the simple case of one person (Binyam Mohammed...) not even a whole country like Rhodesia...
"The country is owed an account of what happened nothing does more to undermine our fight against terrorism and violence [than] if we depart from the rule of law and the values we seek to defend."
WHAT VALUES - LORD SOAMES SAID THEY DIDN'T EXIST ANYMORE IN 1980 TO IAN SMITH -!!!!!
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
Quote from Winston Churchill Jnr (MP) Nov 78 - Letter to Margaret Thatcher (see Margaret Thatchers website)
"I regard it as the most heinous and despicable act of any British government this century to seek to hold down the peoples of Rhodesia with economic sanctions and the denial of even defensive weapons, thereby making it easier for the surrogates of the Soviet Union to overrun the country by force of arms. Feeling as I do, I could not do other than vote against the sanctions order. "
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
From a letter from Winston Churchill Jnr MP to Margaret Thatcher
"As you know, I believe strongly in Britain's responsibility for the future of the peoples of Rhodesia, black and white alike, in our moral obligation as a democracy to support the solution of the ballot box against the bullet, and in the debt of honour we owe to the countless thousands of Rhodesians who came to fight for Britain in her hour of peril.
Yours ever, Winston.
November 9, 1978 "
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
House of Commons Hansard HC [971/620-30] Lie
"There is naturally deep concern in the House and in the country generally about the situation in Rhodesia. Rhodesia is the last sizeable territory of the British Empire which we have not yet been able to bring to legal independence. It is the Government's objective,as it has been our predecessors',that the principles of a non-discriminatory multi-racial society should be enshrined in all our former territories at the time we grant them independence"
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
Even to those who disbelieve the most, the extracts below from the official UK Parliamentary Records, The Lords Hansard, They reveal one thing very clearly:-THE BETRAYAL AND DECEIT OF AN ENTIRE NATION - THE RHODESIANS.
Hide behind your beaurocracy, ignore the history, pretend there were greater priorities...one fact screams out - in the words of Ian Smith -
"PERFIDIOUS ALBION -
TREACHEROUS BRITAIN"
SHAME ON YOU
SHAME,SHAME,SHAME
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
Again-PLEASE, please take a moment to EMAIL this video to a few friends or people who may be interested. Perhaps, perhaps the British conscience will be pricked...send to the Editor of your local newspaper,the producer at your TV station or anyone that may take interest...it is very very unfair and unreasonable that an entire people were displaced simply by the British desire to appease the Organisation of African Unity and the Americans who simply didn't want to have another"Israel"in Africa...
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
When i listen to the lyrics of this song,it makes me want to cry.Beautiful song.We will fight another day.Fuckmugabe
fuckmugabe7 2 years ago
FROM THE PRESS
Mugabe's constant theme is defending the "revolution". The gains he made after independence were massively funded by the West and a brigade of dedicated technocrats who have all since abandoned him. Now Zimbabwe will ask for the same aid, if not more - again.....talk about double dipping, stripping and kleptocracy.......
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
Very true. The West gave more money to Mugabe in the first couple of years of his rule than they ever gave to Ian Smith, which was effectivly ZERO....
suryavajra 2 years ago 2
Fewer than 300 white farmers are left in Zimbabwe, as opposed to 4,500 when the invasions began, and even then they have only small portions of their original landholdings left.
The CFU's director, Hendrik Olivier, said that the eviction campaign was accelerating and that its targets had £70 million worth of crops in the ground.
"About 100 are being done over now, maybe more. They are being fast-tracked for eviction and others are being forced out," he said.
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
AGAIN:FROM THE GREAT BETRAYAL BY IAN SMITH PAGE 409
"Finally,let me once again refer to what must go down in history as one of the most devious and blatantly dishonest actions of a British Government: The failure to abide by the terms of the Lancaster House agreement concerning the 1980 election."Quote Lord Soames-"I am afraid Mr Smith, that the principles and standards on which you and I were brought up to believe in, are no longer part of this world".
PERFIDIOUS ALBION-TREACHEROUS BRITAIN!
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
Zimbabwe: Robert Mugabe's secret plan against white farmers
President Robert Mugabe's Zanu-PF party has drawn up a secret plan to accelerate seizures of land owned by white farmers in Zimbabwe.
By Peta Thornycroft in Harare and Sebastien Berger
Last Updated: 6:09PM GMT 23 Feb 2009
The Commercial Farmers' Union estimates that at least 100 farmers have been targeted for eviction and invasion in the last two weeks.
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
From the Speech at Wolverhampton,
12th December, 1966 By Brigadier John Enoch Powell, MBE -
".......We have now stood up in the face of the world and told a big, black, bold, brazen lie. The Foreign Secretary of Britain on your behalf has declared that in your opinion Rhodesia constitutes a danger to stability and peace in central and southern Africa.How Dr. Goebbels would have relished that one; it is the very spit and image of Nazi technique...."
Perfidious Albion - even he said it.
Bsrcrgrieve 2 years ago
LORD PAGET OF NORTHAMPTON -
I do not suppose anyone else will say/hope that the negotiations break down.If they break down,the Rhodesian Government can be left to get on with their own business and win their own war.I believe that they can do so.What we and South Africa should do is to confine ourselves to exerting such power as we have to assert international law and to stop criminal intervention from outside Rhodesia's frontiers.If we do that for her,she can be left to look after herself.
Bsrcrgrieve