It's nothing you can help, you're just too dumb. You don't even realise that you're book is socially un-acceptable in this day and age, because you havn't read it, you have had it read to you and cherry picked.
there are several different reasons people are turned off by christianity. people do not want to except the fact that we are all sinners, they do not want to be bothered with asking forgiveness from god. alot of christians think that in order to do right by god and spread his message, that they must be pushy and demanding of non-believers to convert to christianity. when in reality, as christians we are expected to just spread the message and leave it up to god to change their hearts.
@TheCurious253 i hear you, i find it that its not only ppl not of the faith but also those who are born into it, without having the choice. my family(mom) is always trying to get me to go to church. I don't see her reason for going but i don't judge her for it, in my case i never hear the end of it. Point is i agree will you, but sadly many are to thick headed of followers to ask questions.
Why I am turned ON by conservative Christian women: The keep themselves looking nice, have healthy habits, their repressed sexuality makes them very aware of their own desires, their men are often too shy to have sex with them before marriage (and too bored afterward) and they are looking to be seduced. They see sex as a sin and a spirtiual release and are quite wicked and kinky in secret.
Keep your religion to yourself. It is stupid on its face, it is an offense to reason and sanity. I was raised a Christian but in a 'mainstream' church and they still have my respect (and that of most Americans). But fundamentalist Evangelicals are intolerant, narrow-minded, ignorant often hysterical and sometimes murderous, as well as aggressive and bent of political conquest .
when you share your FAITH, share your FAITH, do not LIE and pretend it is a FACT.
that is the most offensive thing christians do. I dont care if you are 100% certain of your b.lief s.ystem... that certainty does not change BS into fact.
Even from childhood I realized that I REALLY HATED JESUS CHRIST. I was about 5 when I knew he was a fraud. My parents weren't part of this, but I just knew from the GO that this guy and that filthy bible were to blame for wars, hatred, bigotry, so I thought: BEST to stay about from religion, particularily one with jesus! Believing in that 'savior' is like dancing in a pile of warm dog shit.
I think you are missing the point. All devotees of all religion tend to turn "non-believers" off. This is not because we hate Christ. That's like me accusing you of hating the tooth fairy. What turns me off is that pious people tend to be violently opposed to scientific progress. While most of the industrialized world has moved on, we Americans remain immersed in ancient superstition. When religious people stop opposing the proven methodoloy of science, then I wil no longer be turned off.
@eapst28 first off the tooth fairy never existed, jesus has.. its a historical fact ..thats the problem with a lot of people now days the devil has you buy the nuts he blinds you and you dont even now it ..its actually to bad ..as far as science goes ,this energy we use wile alive were does it go when we die ? i thought energy can not be destroyed only change form, so where does it go mr. scientific ..anyways get back to me on that and your tooth fairy theories..
@lionsclaw75 The energy we use while alive goes back to the earth and continues in the form of other natural processes. If you wish to fantasize about an "afterlife" go right ahead, but your mind only exists for the present so enjoy it if you can.
@MrDominex sorry but i dont agree, it doesn't make sense the only way your theory would work is if we actually were like flowers or a bush or a tree ,but as it is we are not . our energy is much to focused to just be disperse to the earth like a bucket of dirty water ,it doesnt make sense you have to come up with something better than that..your sellin but i am not buyin ..so that means you believe you dont have a soul then only a mind ..wow!! anyways cool chating with you, wish you the best..
@lionsclaw75 You haven't given a counter argument, only an emotional objection. Even the most complex pattern is dispersed back to the universe eventually. You're hung up on your own identity, which is an illusion. The whole human race, all life, all matter and energy are a single pulsating pattern that never dies, only changes. You're terrified of ending, but you ARE change, you only exist in the flowing, so flow on because you can't hold on to anything.
@lionsclaw75 The only part of yourself you leave is what you do that continues to affect what others do. What happend to the "you" that started first grade, where did that person go? You are completely different from that person now, even your memories of that person are faded, distorted. Yet you are a continuation of all your ancestors' actions; you keep dying and being reborn, repeating actions, learning and progressing. Don't fear birth/death, "self" is just a role you play.
I Myself am a Christian and can admit that even other Christians turn me off with the way they speak of other people that see things differently. I have no problems with Atheist people. in fact i love them like brothers and sisters. We are all people on this planet with eyes that perceive things differently. I would just like to tell any atheist that we both work in the same level of faith. weather you believe in God or not. we both have our reasons in which we support our faith. i Love all yall
What have you done ? Just talking nonsense, bullshit, fairy tales and baby stories for over 1700 years. Isn't that enough to turn sensible people off ?
Keep telling you that Santa Claus is not real and you still believe in him even though you have grown up.... that's why!...... oh pardon me, did I say Santa Claus.... my bad.... I mean Jesus...
Pharaseetv..Here is what turn me off among many more..Gen.3.22 Behold the man is become one of us (Plural=more than one god? ) to know good and evil.
Which is admitting that man did not know good from evil prior to that point. Punishing man that is ignorant of the difference betwen good and evil is nonsense. Thank;s
What you could all do, is look outside of just ONE book. Open up to everything, and THEN check to see what resonates with your soul. YOUR OWN TRUTH. :)
What "turned me off" from Christianity is when I was in a church service with my family (I was an atheist at the time) and the pastor randomly said "isn't it absurd....that someone could come to that conclusion," regarding atheism.
I was SO stunned. I was literally in this man's congregation, and he was TRYING to alienate me. Never tried to explain how it was absurd, never tried to support his beliefs, never did anything other than mischaracterize our position and call our reasoning "absurd."
I just thought that this was why church attendance was waning, the guy was preaching ONLY to his flock, and I was terribly annoyed by this.
But, really, I'm not turned off by Christians. There's nothing that you're doing to scare me away. The only thing that aggravates me about Christianity is what Christians do NOT do, which is that they so often take what they believe for granted and rarely EVER try to argue their points.
If you want me to be a Christian, establish Christianity as an idea.
Wow......my friend, you have a big job ahead of you against an angry mob. It's hard standing up for Christ this day, but you are doing it well. Be encouraged in your faith, will pray for you today.
Your heart is rightous,but we must understand unless God has given someone the Holy spiri tthey can never understand the truth. They do not have the ears .Gods chosen ones know the truth. As much we are frustated to teach others of what Jesus did for us they still will not hear.They actually mock God even more.One day they might hear but untill they do they will continue living for this world under the bondage of satan.
What you've said is exactly what jihadists say when they condemn people who don't adopt their personal beliefs. This is EXACTLY why christians and muslims are not taken serisously. Christians and muslims condemn others on gods behalf and also give themselves permission to speak on gods behalf. Call me old fashioned, but back where I come from...that is KOO-KOO & loony.
It's also very important to realize that how religious people act is not the reason the brainwashed things they believe in are not accepted by logical intelligent thinkers.
I learned Christianity was a lie by studying religion in general- the historical development, psychological reasons for it, how brainwashing works, similarities and differences across different religions, superstitious thinking, logical fallacies, etc- NOT by watching how Christians act or what they say.
I'm turned off by brainwashed people regurgitating brainwashed nonsense instead of using rationality, logic, and an educated and supported argument.
The only thing you can do better is never talk about religion so we don't have to hear the insanity. Listening to a brainwashed cult member is about as annoying as listening to somebody scratching a chalkboard- it hurts your brain!
If you want to see how annoying you sound, go visit a Scientology center and try talking to the nutjobs there.
I'm a christian. The bible explains why the non-elect get TURNED OFF by Christ. Jesus told the pharises that they didn't know he was Christ because their father is Satan. The bible says to not dwell with those who reject the gospel;brush the dust off your feet and GO to the next home. Don't water the gospel down or try to placate someone in an attempt to "sell" Jesus to them... they will hate us becouse they hated him.Paul says he counts it his joy to share in the sufferings of Christ. peace.
It doesn't matter what any of us say- irrational beliefs will continue to flourish. People believe silly things because they WANT to. If their holy books tell them that donkeys talk, dead men crawl from graves, and virgins have babies, that gives them the illusion that the world is really a very magical place, and they are partaking of magic. Furthermore, the "being" behind it all CARES for them, personally, ( despite the appalling evidence to the contrary) and that's a comfort to them.
I don't send 'em money. I send requests for donations to the RSPCA, telling them that God;s lesser creatures will greatly benefit from their Christlike kindness. Sadly, they only care about God's creatures if they're BAC xians!
You're right to not send them any money. If they had any real faith, they wouldn't be asking for money in the first place. And right again about looking after the animals. You have the right spirit.
im a christian. I didnt want to belive the bible but it has proven to me that it is true. I like feeling cared for. Thank you for not swearing or openly insulting us. peace.
Right again, Coralarch. And don't forget their flawed premise of love, particularly when their creator destroyed people for ridiculous reasons (such as killing children after they taunted a bald man in II Kings 2:23,24).
Yes, I suppose that's so (God hating brats -- how many were spared when the great flood took place? None, supposedly.) But what if Bindi gets saved? Wouldn't that brighten up heaven considerably? And she's too cute to call out bald men so you won't have to worry about bears rushing down from the hills.
Correct. All brats were slain by God's great flood. Re: Bindi- I don't care if it's bears, elephants, tigers, blue-ringed octopuses, redbacks, rabid rats- whateve Naturer can throw at that insufferable, gollum-fanged troll , it just has to be done! Preferably BEFORE she breeds.
Well maybe history will repeat itself. Maybe more lightning bolts will come down, or another flood (remember the tsunami of a few years ago?) will take place. Who knows how the Lard will execute his judgment about unruly brats. Just wait until Bindi tells bald men to go up!
Actually, Bindi Irwin's existence is a powerful argument against the existence of an all-loving God. However, if she is killed by a natural disaster, I am prepared to concede that there may be a god with a sense of ironic humour.
Sorry, LS57- she is infinitely worse. Check the vid of her interview with Dave Letterman. After you've completed evacuating your innards, let me know how you managed to recover from the ordeal. She is simply insufferable.
I don´t push atheism on anyone. I share my opinions if appropriate and accept that everyone isn´t of the same opinion as I am. Find an atheist who you can disagree with and drink beer together.
get a grip on yourself, jesus was merely a prophet and he knew his message to people will be jeopardized like it is now...
what "turns me off" on christians? perhaps a "passive religion" system, where ceremonies and "blessings" and most of acts are done by "chosen"!! monks (wtf? you make someone more valuable. i would cut tongues for that), whereas any person can do these...just saying that you have been chosen by the god makes my nerves go on alarm...
The answer to your question is quite simple - keep your beliefs to yourself. If you and your co-religionists/people of faith, whatever you want to call it, could do that one simple thing, the world would be a much better place.
Right on -- particularly when the pretense of caring xians persists. Haven't we all experienced enough nutty believers who insist their ridiculous stories are the truth? Oh sure, anything to get people to attend church $ervice$.
I think you are thinking more about anti-religious people.. Atheists and Agnostics dont have any oppinions about religion at all.
On the other hand, anti-religious people are turned off by religion. Often hating the people who belong to any religion.
Me, myself... Well, if my religious friends could give me some rational, logical answears, why they belive and so forth.. I would find it easier to accept them.
All through history people have been trying to. Do we really think we are going to be able to rationally explain logical concepts to such a intelligent bunch of people? Seriously guys ???
Christians killed estimated 6 million jews, 100 million native/central indians and mexicans. The count or blood spills more as one follows the path of christians. Bible (moral guide)not only orders the death of millions among us, it supports torture, slavery, racism, hatred, ritual sacrifice (LOOK UP SKEPTICS ANNOTATED BIBLE) focus on old testament. Most of all is their inability to be able to accept others with differences in approach without judgement or condemnation.
Stop trying to fill in all the unanswered question with "God" telling people how they should live thier life, Stop lying to your kids, stop fighting stemcell research, stop ignoring one scientific fact, but yet acknowledge another...
The bible has so many flaws and can be discredited in so many diffrent ways.
Its frustrating to listen to someone spue the most illogical, impossible fairy tale bull shit and know they believe it as truth. Anyone can see that the bible came from a human mind.
Stop forcing people to believe what you believe. Stop calling us sinners because all have missed the mark. Stop taking and start giving. Let God do his work and stop telling us what you think God is saying. Stop telling us God only talks with you. To much to list, but I am sure you get the idea..
Heaven does have a location. Read it.. Luke 17:20 People forget The message Jesus taught us. As far as sin, all of us have missed the mark! The truth shall set you FREE. We follow a man we killed and we killed him because it was something new of its time. It went against what people believed in. God speaks to all not just to you church leaders.
First of all I would like to say thank you and apologize on the behalf of any of my fellow non-theists who have been rude to you. We are not often afforded the courtesy of openly expressing our beliefs. Anyway, I think that the heart of the matter is that you either believe in god or of you don't. I do not subscribe to a belief in god therefore it has nothing to offer me. It's only when the more extremist believers try to force it on us that we begin to develop a distaste for your religion.
Oh and another good place to start would be to...sorry to be so aggressive....Shut your mouth and stop making video's about your belief's. So that way you can keep your belief's to your self and no one can help you discover what crap (my opinion) the majority of the holy bible is.
Jesus fucking christ do other people always have to think for you. (quote. "what do you think?")If your confused, you ask your pastor, or refer to your king james version of what you christians blindly claim to be the exact word of god
And your inability to sit down and think about it your self is amazing.
As i said the answer is simple.
Two kinds of belief's systems.
We see this kind of problem all over the world. Yin and Yang.
i feel christians turn me off when they pray in public and later i hear them curse at work and carnal at work to fit in and they should not preach witness if they too live a sinful life as well privately.thats making islam religion grow over them by many sstars singers cat stevins many more from chritianity this day..
How is it fair to be judged, based on Biblical codes of conduct, when thousands of generations had never heard of Christianity? how could it be fair, for God to judge people--based on the Bible--when many are indoctrinated into believing that Christians are "Infidels." If religion is passed on to successive generations by indoctrination, how can people be held accountable for believing in the "Wrong" God, when faith does not require proof, or concrete evidence to support it?
I know many Christians who are very good friends of mine and they accept me as a non-believer as well as my oldest brother. I prefer living my life through ZEN. To those people who believe I have nothing against but the Bible I am against. Too much contradiction too much hate. I'm about living in the now with my family and friends. Live life everyday like it's going to be my last. I can't live life for some deity that does not exist but I can live for my family, friends and for me. Cheers!
Ok, now I have nothing against theists. In fact I've been friends with many of them. Now I'm a strong atheist not because of you but because your religion makes no sense. It's contradictory and illogical. It has no evidence for it's claims. I need evidence! Not storys or some guys name. I need evidence. Your claims make no sense, this is why I am an atheist. I'm with science and reason. Since they have evidence. So theres your answer. Your religion does not have any evidence for its claims.
You seem like a great guy. I don't know why anyone wouldn't want to be your friend. Some of the things that turn non-believers off of Christians is a) some are not as accommodating as you seem, and b) some have the belief that they can do whatever they like (for example being awful to people) and will go to heaven because they are Christians... and yet argue that even the most nicest, most caring, most "Jesus-like" person, will go to hell if they don't believe in Christianity. Hope this helps.
1) Stop pushing your religion. You have been here for about 1500 years. Yes, we have heard about you. Stop it!
2) Even though you may feel more favorited than the rest who are not of your religion, does not give you the right to do or say derogatory things about them. Especially when not true.
This is called prejudice, bigotry, defamation of character,...far from the 'Holy Spirit talking through you.'
3) Educate yourself on other religions and non religious groups before you say things that make yourselves look uneducated. And get it from an unbiased source.
Christiandotnet, Islamdotnet, Buddhistdotnet,etc... are biased sources.
4) Accept that every group was the persecuted and the persecutor at one time or another in history. Because this is true. It's one of the more repugnant human traits.
You people are all mocking the one and true living GOD, and He will not stand for it. You might like to educate yourself on past examples where GOD has shown he has no tolerance for such behaviour. Here is one example (here's a hint: REPENT NOW!)
Deuteronomy 28:27 "The LORD will strike you with the same boils that plagued the Egyptians. He will strike you with hemorrhoids, sores, and itching that won't go away."
You mean you don't like when you're mocked, and you can't take what you hand out. Too bad. "Flingeth your crappeth into the opposing winds, and findeth out what happenseth"
Worst relgoin being kommunism. I asken Giod kill all kommunist, he no ansering me. Good evning sir. Mr Busy, Im, not unsertandin you spek I lern Inglesh onaly 7 monhtes. Sory fore this.
There's so many things that we know about the origins of christianity, the history of the bible, of judaism, of the old testament. There are great many things that should be teached in school ABOUT christianity(and a many other religions as well), but we are not allowed to do so, becouse that would questionize christianity, and questionizing another person's religion is a taboo. Apparently, "the truth" does have something to fear from investigations.
It's the intolerant, judgemental, absolutist theology many of them hold: Jesus is the only way, follow the laws in the bible or you will be damned. They teach that I am so miserable that I deserve to burn in hell unles unles I stop commiting the thought crime of NOT believing as they do. Then add the fact that christianity holds a sacred position in public, and none is allowed to criticise it nor questionise it.
Let us be careful. Our job is not be worry about offending feelings. If you follow the bible you will treat and love your neighbor as yourself and let feelings fall where they may. It is our nature to not appreciate being told what to do. Inform and let others pick their path. Give the message in love with no apologies. God is love, God is also truth. You correct your child because you love them. It is because God is holy that we have to deny our nature to see him.
Why do you think that Gabriel ? Have you many terrible secrets to hide from the Law ? Like killing your wife and robbery and gay prostitution ? You are a funny funny man.
Yuo making funnings with me? Not killen wife. Yet. Just askings. If I kil, and she not savings by bloood of Jesus, she go to Hel, yes? I going jaol, I get savings, I get excuted, I go Heven. Just wantings make sure. If this tru, then is best relgoin for me. PLese advsings, sir.
The best religion is one you don't have to pay for Gabriel. Any God worth its salt isn't interested in your money because it is a spiritual entity and has no use for it. Any religion which asks you for money is lying to you and you shouldn't listen to anything they say because they are going to hell.
Not true, Formless! You will do well to heed the word of the LORD:
II Corinthians 9:7 "Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver."
Well, there are many different people in the world with different skin color, accents, countries, and even different beliefs. There are more beliefs in the world than you could shake a stick at, and many of those beliefs are different than Christian beliefs. And many people like those beliefs better despite anything that Christians do. I know that this is a difficult concept for you but if you meditate (pray) on it for a little while you may start to understand it.
7) stop being so narrow minded as you can see this list can go on and on and on.... limited letters though. I hope this helped. I have no problem with any religion until it begins to affect my life. christianity is big for that over here.
to be honest it is a mixture of things. for instance islam christianity and judaism all preach peace and love for your fellow man, yet more people have been murdered in the name of god than for any other purpose in history. another problem is that according to the bible the earth is only 6k yrs old and every creature that ever existed on the planet did so at the same time. this means humans and dinosaurs coexisted which i find hard to believe. it just makes more sense that everything happened
gradually over time and not all at once. the last problem i will mention is that anthropologists have found over 5000 different versions of the old testament and no 2 are alike: grammatical spelling and even story changes if gods word is infallible why are there 5000 different versions of it? i agree that it is not a personal thing its just that in my head the it doesnt add up i tried to believe but something in my head just kept sayin "something isnt right here" if u want more reasons just ask.
I don't know. I'm a Christian, so I can only answer for myself. I think many people think we're supposed to be perfect, when in fact, Christians are human too, and we also make mistakes. I have had to acknowledge my mistakes and not worry about what they think. The DIFFERENCE between Christians and nonbelievers is that we KNOW we need Christ, we know we need that daily walk, that daily forgiveness. I'm not sure nonbelievers grasp that concept.
The DIFFERENCE between nonbelievers and christians is that we know that christ is a fairytale just like Thor, Zeus, leprechauns and unicorns. No educated atheist thinks christians have to be perfect and no its not the reason we're not all flocking to the banner. We all make mistakes because we're human, not because some magic man wanted to be worshiped so he created weak beings in need of guidance. Meet a guy who needs to be worshiped I bet you'd think he had a low self esteem, but a god...
Simple...stop interfearing in schools, the law, and peoples lives. keep religion to thy self. pay taxes within the church. stop preaching to everyone they are sinners and going to hell.and paying your minister sick amounts of money for a vocation, a belief.
If you want to believe then it is your right and i will defend it, it is also my right to live in a secular society and not to be told how to live my life. and stop the picketing of cemetaries and the courts to force religious dogma.
Jesus said the summary of the law is to do unto others as you would have them do to you. You enslave yourself to a book full of ritualistis animal sacrafice / murder / voodoo etc. You also have a horrible tendency to impose your will upon others, you even have the gall to attempt legislating your morals on others, (successfully sometimes) That's why me and God say YOU SUCK just like we ALWAYS have. Because we call 'em as we see 'em. Fools enslave themselves to anciant retarded texts.
Christians don't put people in hell..God gives us our own will to decide for our self which path we want to take,the worlds way or My Masters,Jesus Christs way.So we as Christian can not send people to hell!If you say there are Christians who think they can well SHAME ON THEM!We as Believers do not have the right to judge anyone for their sins or tell them they are going to hell! What happen to praying for the lost ones? I can't wait to get to Heaven! Lord take me soon cause this world is CRAZY!
I respect that Christians have there beliefs but I get put off by them putting GOD (not Jesus) in a box. They confine God's plan to a book that can be read and interpreted more than one way. I mean if the 12 disciples who were with Jesus daily didn't understand him what makes them so much more advanced and knowledgable?
I would just like to hear someone say
"Honestly, I Don't Know"(including Pastors,Priest etc etc) rather than spouting of something they had dictated to them.
phariseetv. you seem like a friendly and genuine guy so i say just be yourself. Live the way and if people see that it is good they too will want to walk as you walk. But with molesting preists, thieving ministers, hypocritical church goers, the religious fanatics as news correspondents, i don't think 'saying' anything will attract an atheist.
I grew up a christian.. not anymore but I have my beliefs and faith. What turned me away is the hypocricies of the church and people in it. The "we are right and all else wrong" mindset without any real gift of knowledge Why. Idol worship. Ignorant Faith. Using the Bible as the absolute authority when it has been doctored and changed over the 1700 or so years its existed.. And then not knowing or wanting to know anything else about it except the paper its written on. And im speaking for myself.
same reason why Christians are turned off by what non-Christians believe. Nobody wants to be pressured into changing - changing their beliefs, or ways of living. Change must come naturally. What works for one person doesn't necessarily work for the other, mainly because people are at different levels of perceiving life. I have my own belief about life, but I wouldn't dare push it onto anyone, because it could do damage, and mostly alienate myself from others. Christians often push too much.
well kev i'm jewish and i have no problims with any xtians til they want me to be one . but they are not the first to whisper or in some cases yell in our ears come with us and worship a g-d you haave not known . but to try to answer you in short show your faith in your actions not in words
Further to my last post about Christian turn- offs- when I mentioned that a certain Christian had molested me in my youth, the Christian to whom I addressed my remarks screamed that I was a child molester and a pervert. How he concluded that, I will never know.
Some dear Christians on Youtube warble on about Jesus's grace, love and forgiveness, and then either abuse unbelievers or block us from asking further questions. Why on earth should we take their claims seriously, if that's the sort of behaviour they indulge in? Why shouldn't we question their ludicrous claims, their subjective superstitions?
Coralarch, it's very sad to think that such judgments can be made by people who insist that their beliefs are the only correct ones, and then when others don't agree, the finger of blame is pointed!
Oh, yes, LS57. Very true. Projection and denial are the two most primitive defence mechanisms. Have you ever read "The Jesus Hoax" by Phyllis Graham? It's a blistering indictment of Jesus himself- ( and his ghastly followers) written by a former nun. Wonderful reading.
thanx 4 the question most christians are not concerned how others view them . i believe God is big enough to defend himself he doesnt need hostile religious people to do it . and the scriptures say that traditions make the word of God to none affect . tradition is poisen, by tradition i mean rituals and unspoken rules that arent addressed in the bible.i could never live up to the standards that are required . you seem to be someone who is not judgmental although i couldnt say that about most.
Well, I'd say the thing that usually gets to me has been my inability to speak to my christian friends of the trappings of their faith (the bible, certain dogmas, etc) without causing offense. I'm a reasonable, logical person, and yet I'm usually met with hostility when bringing certain issues up.
I can't understand why they call certain things 'right' or 'correct' and yet refuse to discuss them as thy would any other assessment of value.(cont'd)
(cont'd) This is most frequently manifest in the double standard many Christians give the Bible. They quote it as truth, and often use it as a point in debate, and yet many refuse to discuss it critically, or respect the fact that the atheist they're discussing with likely puts no more value in the Bible than the Christian does the Koran.
I've had the opposite experience: nasty names, insults to the female members of my family, threats of violence, and all around general emotional rather than reasoned response. I've tried to discuss atheism/agnosticism through science, leaving God/the Bible out of it with virtually the same result. Always the same- shouting, cursing, and of course the threats. However, I have made the effort whenever possible.
Actually that is not true. The atheist who has achieved any kind of lasting worldly success from reading books on success has benefited from wisdom from the Bible. The Bible is riddled with information, when applied correctly, has created massive monetary wealth for people throughout time. In fact, many proclaimed atheists are starting to become aware that there are natural laws of success and are learning to take advantage of those laws. Madonna is one of those atheists.
Not clear on what you're saying here, Demolishun. Are you saying that it isn't true that an atheist most likely does not consider the bible to be in any way authoritative? If this is what you're claiming, I would ask what source of authority validates the bible from an atheistic viewpoint? If you'd like to discuss this in depth, feel free to PM me.
Study people who have attained massive treasures. They all have common characteristics. One of those characteristics is that they have attained treasures based upon their service to others. "Treasures" being all forms of wealth. One of the ideas common in these groups is that the more you give of yourself, the more you will attain. It is described as a karma of sorts. The Bible is riddled with hints to this in the old and new testament. This law of reciprocity is evident at all levels.
That is because this information is not being taught in schools. If it were there would be more millionaire professors. Here are some books to get you started:
"Think and Grow Rich" Napoleon Hill
"Know Your Limits - Then Ignore Them" John Mason
"Cash Flow Quadrant" Robert T. Kiyosaki
"The Anatomy of Peace" The Arbinger Institute
"Launching the Leadership Revolution" Chris Brady and Orrin Woodward
There are many more, but I remember specific references to passages or themes in those.
I think I understand where you are coming from here. I have difficulty with creationism that says the world was created according to the literal way the bible was written in Genesis. I believe science can be a witness to God's truth. When religion forgets that and does not adjust views of historical significance with in-your-face evidence then it services no-one. The same danger occurs when science does the same thing regarding "religion" as a trivial social "thing".
Many of (not all) the christians I've encountered in my life have been very arrogant towards me. They like to insult my intelligence by speaking to me as if I am uneducated and not capable of forming my own opinions and beliefs. This is what turns me off.
Read up on the scientific end of it, and then ask some critical questions. A theory only becomes a theory when it is challenged and proven empirically to be true, until then, it is only a hypothesis. Why then are some "theories" protected by law or ridicule or personal attacks or insults? If Christianity is a fable, then why should anyone be offended that someone else holds those beliefs? See what the chance is that life spontaneously started from a toxic chem. soup. 10 to 40,000 power to 1.
whud: I've read much on the scientific end of it. No theories are protected by "law or ridicule or personal attacks or insults."
As to Christianity being a fable: if people took it as seriously as the tooth fairy, I would too.
As to your numbers on abiogenesis: since we don't know the mechanism, we can make no meaningful statistical guesses as to the probability of an abiogenesis event occurring. Saying otherwise is scientifically disingenuous.
I believe, a lot of science is a big, gigantic load of BULLSHIT. Believing and having faith in Jesus is the ONLY way. When you're dead and standing before him, you can explain your scientific beliefs and see if he agrees with you.
"I believe, a lot of science is a big, gigantic load of BULLSHIT. Believing and having faith in Jesus is the ONLY way. When you're dead and standing before him, you can explain your scientific beliefs and see if he agrees with you."
Pharisee: Take note: this is what turns me off about christians. Ignorant damning of anyone who doesn't agree with them. Thanks for giving such a shining example, dskennie.
You're very welcome. Don't be turned off by my defending of Christianity. If someone feels strongly about something, they'll defend it. I think you should take that into consideration. It's God you should worry about not defensive Christians, after all, it's about your relationship with God. Please forgive me for my ignorance.
I'm not changing my God, but I understand what you're saying. You guys seem so close-minded. It seems like you don't give it a chance. You let one thing be wrong about it then you completely turn your back. You might actually like it. You become offensive when one person says something wrong. It's not about your relationship with Christ not man.
"You guys seem so close-minded. It seems like you don't give it a chance."
I gave it plenty of chance. But more importantly: threats aren't likely to change anyones mind. I'm swayed by reasoned argument. Any belief system worth holding should stand up on this level, and from my own study Christianity (the beliefs, not the people), does not. If you feel you can convince me otherwise with reasoned argument, feel free to PM me.
dskennie- science has told us a LOT about the natural world that your God supposedly created in 6 measly days, so why wouldn't Jesus be interested in a dead person's scientific beliefs?
anything that is fact he knows anyway, there is nothing he doesn't know. he even knows what we think, even if it's false. It is one who lacks faith that believes that he cannot create all of existence in 6 days, which he did- and the bible didn't say 6-twenty-four hour increments, a day could mean 1 million years, but he could have done it in 144 hours, he could have done it in 144 seconds
Some people believe in God through blind faith while others want absolute proof or there is no belief. So how do you reconcile these extremes? How can one person wonder at the magnitude of beauty in nature and not think there is a design process of deliberate origin? How can one solve an equation that seems to hold the key to the random yet structured result that seems so mechanical and unsupervised? Are we looking at the same thing with different lenses?
I can marvel at nature, too, without imagining that some psychopath designed it all, knowing that he was going to destroy his craation and tip a good number of them into eternal hellfire.
There is no doubt that God has a favored people. Even his favorites get smacked around when they disobey.
Please explain which atrocities are you referring to? Before you do
let me ask you this: If you created the universe and your creation started bad mouthing you, Would you not be upset? If not, why? Are you bound to some kind of moral conduct when there is NO moral standard? Why don't you kill your neighbor when he looks at you wrong? What high and mighty person should be making law?
There seems to be a problem with the type of logic you're using here, Demolishun, and it runs you headlong into the theodicy problem. The currently accepted view of god makes him omniscience and omnipotent. This would mean god created things as they were knowing that they'd turn out this way, knowing that sin would come and screw everything up, and knowing that he'd have to slaughter all the world twice over. In other words, this strange and often horror-filled world was his plan all along.
Yes, because of free-will. God knew full well that free-will would allow people to disobey. However, the slaughter you refer to was our doing not his. God is responsible for creation, but his creature is responsible for the creature's choices. Even knowing this God still loved us enough to create us. Would you have killed Hitler as an infant if you knew he would be come Hitler? Free-will is the "image" God duplicated not necessarily a physical or spiritual form.
"However, the slaughter you refer to was our doing not his."
So the blame goes not to the person who created it so that it would happen this way, but to the players who acted it out the plan? Seems an odd way to let god off the hook. I'm not going to debate this further in a 500 word comment list, but this would be an interesting discussion for a longer format.
Free-will is the greatest gift God could have given us. Yes, he knew the consequences of the action of creation. The bible also shows how he has even wept for the children who do not understand him. Would you rather have a world where everything comes easy? With no way to test yourself to become more through challenge? Without free-will that world would not exist.
Ah, but we don't live in a world that is any other way do we?
Now how about this twist. What if biological evolution is a clue as to how mental and spiritual evolution occurs in the human? Albeit the metaphysical evolution would be happening at a much higher rate than the physical. The continual challenge to our being that makes us stronger if we survive. I think nature can tell us a lot about our non-physical side. Now we start to see why someone would choose death over betraying belief.
On the contrary, I think this is getting very interesting.
"There seems to be no valid reason to assume that demonstrably worse consequences would flow from a world made in some other way."
Actually there are great modern examples:
Nazi Germany, USSR, China, North Korea
Some of these are openly anti religion while others have created distorted views of Christianity. I think China may have bought itself some time by re allowing religion to be practiced.
What exactly in wrong with that? Have you done your homework and read those books? Is it possible that WHEN God created the universe that he implanted the secret to all success into the very fabric of existence? Is is possible that the bible in its current form is a blueprint for the best way to live based upon those rules implanted into existence? Think of it like university classes: How to wage war 101, How to resist corruption due to power 101, How to care for people 101.
Many things are possible. I would suggest that I, and even you, do not live our lives based upon what's possible but what's probable and useful. This seems to me neither. I've read the bible, it's an interesting book, but to call it more than a record of myth, superstition, and questionable historical record would be a stretch.
"I believe science can be a witness to God's truth. When religion forgets that and does not adjust views of historical significance with in-your-face evidence then it services no-one. The same danger occurs when science does the same thing regarding "religion" as a trivial social "thing"."
The beliefs contained in the bible built the greatest civilization to ever exist on Earth yet those beliefs are trivialized.
"The beliefs contained in the bible built the greatest civilization to ever exist on Earth yet those beliefs are trivialized."
The beliefs in the Bible have built nothing. People have built many things, but beliefs cannot build. Even if you're using the idea that people believed a certain thing when constructing something great, that in no way justifies (or necessarily even relates to) their belief.
Then where did law come from? What is the basis for which the legal system operates? Why would anyone have any intrinsic value beyond that of cattle or property? Why does the constitution of the USA say every human being has intrinsic value because they are human? Without a belief in God the human being is nothing more than an animal that can be killed, owned, used, tortured, etc without consequence. Your ability to voice your opinion is due to that belief. Without God you are nothing.
Earliest example of written law is Hammurabi's Code, which predates the biblical texts and bears a much closer resemblance to modern law than biblical law does.
"What is the basis for which the legal system operates?"
This is a nonsensical question.
"Why would anyone have any intrinsic value beyond that of cattle or property?"
Good question, and one that almost all philosophies try to answer. The bible is not special in this respect.
Lets have a thought experiment: Mike raised to believe tooth fairy is real. There are books written about it, and of course the rituals, peer pressure, and everything needed to keep one's faith strong. Would you (as a non-believer) not find it silly?
I think it's an insult to intelligence.
Not being possible to have a decent discussion about religion is a another issue. Most christians know less about their bible than me, and after some arguments many of my christian friends will.. (reply->)
admit they don't really buy into the church crap (dunno about there, but here there are some obvious problems with it), and neither the bible. Many just believe there's something higher, a god. Yet, what really bothers me about these is that they still obey christian tradition, get their kids baptized and caught in the same evil loop.
So, to sum it up, I think for me, on a personal level, it's the lack of reason.
Sorry if that sounds harsh. From what little I know about you, you seem nice.
wow, finally a religious video that doesn't have it's comments and/or ratings disabled
Bayzz2 8 months ago
It's nothing you can help, you're just too dumb. You don't even realise that you're book is socially un-acceptable in this day and age, because you havn't read it, you have had it read to you and cherry picked.
Dandramere 8 months ago
there are several different reasons people are turned off by christianity. people do not want to except the fact that we are all sinners, they do not want to be bothered with asking forgiveness from god. alot of christians think that in order to do right by god and spread his message, that they must be pushy and demanding of non-believers to convert to christianity. when in reality, as christians we are expected to just spread the message and leave it up to god to change their hearts.
TheCurious253 1 year ago
@TheCurious253 i hear you, i find it that its not only ppl not of the faith but also those who are born into it, without having the choice. my family(mom) is always trying to get me to go to church. I don't see her reason for going but i don't judge her for it, in my case i never hear the end of it. Point is i agree will you, but sadly many are to thick headed of followers to ask questions.
TeenageVampire999 1 year ago
Why I am turned ON by conservative Christian women: The keep themselves looking nice, have healthy habits, their repressed sexuality makes them very aware of their own desires, their men are often too shy to have sex with them before marriage (and too bored afterward) and they are looking to be seduced. They see sex as a sin and a spirtiual release and are quite wicked and kinky in secret.
MrDominex 1 year ago
Keep your religion to yourself. It is stupid on its face, it is an offense to reason and sanity. I was raised a Christian but in a 'mainstream' church and they still have my respect (and that of most Americans). But fundamentalist Evangelicals are intolerant, narrow-minded, ignorant often hysterical and sometimes murderous, as well as aggressive and bent of political conquest .
MrDominex 1 year ago
when you share your FAITH, share your FAITH, do not LIE and pretend it is a FACT.
that is the most offensive thing christians do. I dont care if you are 100% certain of your b.lief s.ystem... that certainty does not change BS into fact.
jiohdi 1 year ago
Even from childhood I realized that I REALLY HATED JESUS CHRIST. I was about 5 when I knew he was a fraud. My parents weren't part of this, but I just knew from the GO that this guy and that filthy bible were to blame for wars, hatred, bigotry, so I thought: BEST to stay about from religion, particularily one with jesus! Believing in that 'savior' is like dancing in a pile of warm dog shit.
rumpwrestler 2 years ago
I think you are missing the point. All devotees of all religion tend to turn "non-believers" off. This is not because we hate Christ. That's like me accusing you of hating the tooth fairy. What turns me off is that pious people tend to be violently opposed to scientific progress. While most of the industrialized world has moved on, we Americans remain immersed in ancient superstition. When religious people stop opposing the proven methodoloy of science, then I wil no longer be turned off.
eapst28 2 years ago 2
@eapst28 first off the tooth fairy never existed, jesus has.. its a historical fact ..thats the problem with a lot of people now days the devil has you buy the nuts he blinds you and you dont even now it ..its actually to bad ..as far as science goes ,this energy we use wile alive were does it go when we die ? i thought energy can not be destroyed only change form, so where does it go mr. scientific ..anyways get back to me on that and your tooth fairy theories..
lionsclaw75 1 year ago
@lionsclaw75 The energy we use while alive goes back to the earth and continues in the form of other natural processes. If you wish to fantasize about an "afterlife" go right ahead, but your mind only exists for the present so enjoy it if you can.
MrDominex 1 year ago
@MrDominex sorry but i dont agree, it doesn't make sense the only way your theory would work is if we actually were like flowers or a bush or a tree ,but as it is we are not . our energy is much to focused to just be disperse to the earth like a bucket of dirty water ,it doesnt make sense you have to come up with something better than that..your sellin but i am not buyin ..so that means you believe you dont have a soul then only a mind ..wow!! anyways cool chating with you, wish you the best..
lionsclaw75 1 year ago
@lionsclaw75 You haven't given a counter argument, only an emotional objection. Even the most complex pattern is dispersed back to the universe eventually. You're hung up on your own identity, which is an illusion. The whole human race, all life, all matter and energy are a single pulsating pattern that never dies, only changes. You're terrified of ending, but you ARE change, you only exist in the flowing, so flow on because you can't hold on to anything.
MrDominex 1 year ago
@lionsclaw75 The only part of yourself you leave is what you do that continues to affect what others do. What happend to the "you" that started first grade, where did that person go? You are completely different from that person now, even your memories of that person are faded, distorted. Yet you are a continuation of all your ancestors' actions; you keep dying and being reborn, repeating actions, learning and progressing. Don't fear birth/death, "self" is just a role you play.
eatmylogic 1 year ago
I Myself am a Christian and can admit that even other Christians turn me off with the way they speak of other people that see things differently. I have no problems with Atheist people. in fact i love them like brothers and sisters. We are all people on this planet with eyes that perceive things differently. I would just like to tell any atheist that we both work in the same level of faith. weather you believe in God or not. we both have our reasons in which we support our faith. i Love all yall
ceriah311 2 years ago
Belief without evidence = Contempt
That is the formula for "why are you turned off by christians"
Skindoggiedog 2 years ago
What have you done ? Just talking nonsense, bullshit, fairy tales and baby stories for over 1700 years. Isn't that enough to turn sensible people off ?
mcshundess 2 years ago
Keep telling you that Santa Claus is not real and you still believe in him even though you have grown up.... that's why!...... oh pardon me, did I say Santa Claus.... my bad.... I mean Jesus...
GawdOfThunder 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Christianity, The Whore Upon The Beast, she who causes all nations to drink of her cup of fornication
This is a counterfeit religion of the Beast
Jesus is one of many names of the Beast
Christianity is rooted in Babylon, if the root is in Babylon, so also the tree and fruit
her pagan Babylon holidays, and worldly teachings, bare witness of the root
This is NOT the True Church of the Savior
REPENT
Return to the Laws, Commandments, Statutes, Precepts and Judgments of the God of Abraham
cumara0seadog 2 years ago
Pharaseetv..Here is what turn me off among many more..Gen.3.22 Behold the man is become one of us (Plural=more than one god? ) to know good and evil.
Which is admitting that man did not know good from evil prior to that point. Punishing man that is ignorant of the difference betwen good and evil is nonsense. Thank;s
quebec10000 2 years ago
What you could all do, is look outside of just ONE book. Open up to everything, and THEN check to see what resonates with your soul. YOUR OWN TRUTH. :)
Drummur 3 years ago
You've got some reading to do.
Skindoggiedog 2 years ago
What "turned me off" from Christianity is when I was in a church service with my family (I was an atheist at the time) and the pastor randomly said "isn't it absurd....that someone could come to that conclusion," regarding atheism.
I was SO stunned. I was literally in this man's congregation, and he was TRYING to alienate me. Never tried to explain how it was absurd, never tried to support his beliefs, never did anything other than mischaracterize our position and call our reasoning "absurd."
Redfingers 3 years ago 2
I just thought that this was why church attendance was waning, the guy was preaching ONLY to his flock, and I was terribly annoyed by this.
But, really, I'm not turned off by Christians. There's nothing that you're doing to scare me away. The only thing that aggravates me about Christianity is what Christians do NOT do, which is that they so often take what they believe for granted and rarely EVER try to argue their points.
If you want me to be a Christian, establish Christianity as an idea.
Redfingers 3 years ago
OH....I dont know what Christians have done to turn people off...Could it have all started with that witch-hunting thing a few years back???
41elliott 3 years ago
Wow......my friend, you have a big job ahead of you against an angry mob. It's hard standing up for Christ this day, but you are doing it well. Be encouraged in your faith, will pray for you today.
DrTuct 3 years ago
Your heart is rightous,but we must understand unless God has given someone the Holy spiri tthey can never understand the truth. They do not have the ears .Gods chosen ones know the truth. As much we are frustated to teach others of what Jesus did for us they still will not hear.They actually mock God even more.One day they might hear but untill they do they will continue living for this world under the bondage of satan.
love peace wisdom faith
a servant for the Lord Jesus
vasiliosrigos 3 years ago
What you've said is exactly what jihadists say when they condemn people who don't adopt their personal beliefs. This is EXACTLY why christians and muslims are not taken serisously. Christians and muslims condemn others on gods behalf and also give themselves permission to speak on gods behalf. Call me old fashioned, but back where I come from...that is KOO-KOO & loony.
POPEWORSHIPER 3 years ago 2
It's also very important to realize that how religious people act is not the reason the brainwashed things they believe in are not accepted by logical intelligent thinkers.
I learned Christianity was a lie by studying religion in general- the historical development, psychological reasons for it, how brainwashing works, similarities and differences across different religions, superstitious thinking, logical fallacies, etc- NOT by watching how Christians act or what they say.
ramdillian 3 years ago
I'm turned off by brainwashed people regurgitating brainwashed nonsense instead of using rationality, logic, and an educated and supported argument.
The only thing you can do better is never talk about religion so we don't have to hear the insanity. Listening to a brainwashed cult member is about as annoying as listening to somebody scratching a chalkboard- it hurts your brain!
If you want to see how annoying you sound, go visit a Scientology center and try talking to the nutjobs there.
ramdillian 3 years ago
my answer: "don't judge."
own the fact there is an inherent judgement within your belief systems.
even though Jesus taught not to judge and to love one another.
my question is can you love unconditionally without making another wrong?
LegacyProductionsOrg 3 years ago
I'm a christian. The bible explains why the non-elect get TURNED OFF by Christ. Jesus told the pharises that they didn't know he was Christ because their father is Satan. The bible says to not dwell with those who reject the gospel;brush the dust off your feet and GO to the next home. Don't water the gospel down or try to placate someone in an attempt to "sell" Jesus to them... they will hate us becouse they hated him.Paul says he counts it his joy to share in the sufferings of Christ. peace.
olengivens 3 years ago
It doesn't matter what any of us say- irrational beliefs will continue to flourish. People believe silly things because they WANT to. If their holy books tell them that donkeys talk, dead men crawl from graves, and virgins have babies, that gives them the illusion that the world is really a very magical place, and they are partaking of magic. Furthermore, the "being" behind it all CARES for them, personally, ( despite the appalling evidence to the contrary) and that's a comfort to them.
coralarch 3 years ago
Right, and thankfully people can see through those stupid stories. Hopefully they will stop sending money, too!
LS57 3 years ago
I don't send 'em money. I send requests for donations to the RSPCA, telling them that God;s lesser creatures will greatly benefit from their Christlike kindness. Sadly, they only care about God's creatures if they're BAC xians!
coralarch 3 years ago
You're right to not send them any money. If they had any real faith, they wouldn't be asking for money in the first place. And right again about looking after the animals. You have the right spirit.
LS57 3 years ago
im a christian. I didnt want to belive the bible but it has proven to me that it is true. I like feeling cared for. Thank you for not swearing or openly insulting us. peace.
olengivens 3 years ago
You like feeling cared for?- good thing you weren't at the WTC on 9/11. God was noticeably not caring about any one of those victims, wasn't he?
coralarch 3 years ago
Right again, Coralarch. And don't forget their flawed premise of love, particularly when their creator destroyed people for ridiculous reasons (such as killing children after they taunted a bald man in II Kings 2:23,24).
LS57 3 years ago
LS57- be reasonable! God hates obnoxious little brats as much as I do. I can't wait til Bindi Irwin is eaten by a bear.
coralarch 3 years ago
Yes, I suppose that's so (God hating brats -- how many were spared when the great flood took place? None, supposedly.) But what if Bindi gets saved? Wouldn't that brighten up heaven considerably? And she's too cute to call out bald men so you won't have to worry about bears rushing down from the hills.
LS57 3 years ago
Correct. All brats were slain by God's great flood. Re: Bindi- I don't care if it's bears, elephants, tigers, blue-ringed octopuses, redbacks, rabid rats- whateve Naturer can throw at that insufferable, gollum-fanged troll , it just has to be done! Preferably BEFORE she breeds.
coralarch 3 years ago
Well maybe history will repeat itself. Maybe more lightning bolts will come down, or another flood (remember the tsunami of a few years ago?) will take place. Who knows how the Lard will execute his judgment about unruly brats. Just wait until Bindi tells bald men to go up!
LS57 3 years ago
Actually, Bindi Irwin's existence is a powerful argument against the existence of an all-loving God. However, if she is killed by a natural disaster, I am prepared to concede that there may be a god with a sense of ironic humour.
coralarch 3 years ago
Well, maybe that will happen. But, surely, she isn't as bad as the awful, sinful rock music that introduces this video clip -- or, is she?
LS57 3 years ago
Sorry, LS57- she is infinitely worse. Check the vid of her interview with Dave Letterman. After you've completed evacuating your innards, let me know how you managed to recover from the ordeal. She is simply insufferable.
coralarch 3 years ago
I don´t push atheism on anyone. I share my opinions if appropriate and accept that everyone isn´t of the same opinion as I am. Find an atheist who you can disagree with and drink beer together.
bastardism 3 years ago
it is about ever repeating term Jesus...
get a grip on yourself, jesus was merely a prophet and he knew his message to people will be jeopardized like it is now...
what "turns me off" on christians? perhaps a "passive religion" system, where ceremonies and "blessings" and most of acts are done by "chosen"!! monks (wtf? you make someone more valuable. i would cut tongues for that), whereas any person can do these...just saying that you have been chosen by the god makes my nerves go on alarm...
kaelhm 3 years ago
The answer to your question is quite simple - keep your beliefs to yourself. If you and your co-religionists/people of faith, whatever you want to call it, could do that one simple thing, the world would be a much better place.
telboy1966manu 3 years ago
Right on -- particularly when the pretense of caring xians persists. Haven't we all experienced enough nutty believers who insist their ridiculous stories are the truth? Oh sure, anything to get people to attend church $ervice$.
LS57 3 years ago
I think you are thinking more about anti-religious people.. Atheists and Agnostics dont have any oppinions about religion at all.
On the other hand, anti-religious people are turned off by religion. Often hating the people who belong to any religion.
Me, myself... Well, if my religious friends could give me some rational, logical answears, why they belive and so forth.. I would find it easier to accept them.
Vallinen92 3 years ago
All through history people have been trying to. Do we really think we are going to be able to rationally explain logical concepts to such a intelligent bunch of people? Seriously guys ???
patboyuk 3 years ago
Christians killed estimated 6 million jews, 100 million native/central indians and mexicans. The count or blood spills more as one follows the path of christians. Bible (moral guide)not only orders the death of millions among us, it supports torture, slavery, racism, hatred, ritual sacrifice (LOOK UP SKEPTICS ANNOTATED BIBLE) focus on old testament. Most of all is their inability to be able to accept others with differences in approach without judgement or condemnation.
patboyuk 3 years ago
Stop trying to fill in all the unanswered question with "God" telling people how they should live thier life, Stop lying to your kids, stop fighting stemcell research, stop ignoring one scientific fact, but yet acknowledge another...
The bible has so many flaws and can be discredited in so many diffrent ways.
Its frustrating to listen to someone spue the most illogical, impossible fairy tale bull shit and know they believe it as truth. Anyone can see that the bible came from a human mind.
Stonedgamer87 3 years ago
Stop judging and stop teaching separation.
Stop forcing people to believe what you believe. Stop calling us sinners because all have missed the mark. Stop taking and start giving. Let God do his work and stop telling us what you think God is saying. Stop telling us God only talks with you. To much to list, but I am sure you get the idea..
hemie10 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Heaven does have a location. Read it.. Luke 17:20 People forget The message Jesus taught us. As far as sin, all of us have missed the mark! The truth shall set you FREE. We follow a man we killed and we killed him because it was something new of its time. It went against what people believed in. God speaks to all not just to you church leaders.
hemie10 3 years ago
First of all I would like to say thank you and apologize on the behalf of any of my fellow non-theists who have been rude to you. We are not often afforded the courtesy of openly expressing our beliefs. Anyway, I think that the heart of the matter is that you either believe in god or of you don't. I do not subscribe to a belief in god therefore it has nothing to offer me. It's only when the more extremist believers try to force it on us that we begin to develop a distaste for your religion.
alexxmidnite 3 years ago
The best way for you to be our friend is to stop judging people. You are not god, got it? Hey Kevin, we think you s.u.c.k.
HunterMann 3 years ago
Oh and another good place to start would be to...sorry to be so aggressive....Shut your mouth and stop making video's about your belief's. So that way you can keep your belief's to your self and no one can help you discover what crap (my opinion) the majority of the holy bible is.
6robert6ramirez6 3 years ago
The answer is simple...
Jesus fucking christ do other people always have to think for you. (quote. "what do you think?")If your confused, you ask your pastor, or refer to your king james version of what you christians blindly claim to be the exact word of god
And your inability to sit down and think about it your self is amazing.
As i said the answer is simple.
Two kinds of belief's systems.
We see this kind of problem all over the world. Yin and Yang.
6robert6ramirez6 3 years ago
Too many doctrines in christianity ,too many debates about Jesus says in bible .this is discord and confusion in christianity
deathforyou2008 3 years ago
i feel christians turn me off when they pray in public and later i hear them curse at work and carnal at work to fit in and they should not preach witness if they too live a sinful life as well privately.thats making islam religion grow over them by many sstars singers cat stevins many more from chritianity this day..
deathforyou2008 3 years ago
How is it fair to be judged, based on Biblical codes of conduct, when thousands of generations had never heard of Christianity? how could it be fair, for God to judge people--based on the Bible--when many are indoctrinated into believing that Christians are "Infidels." If religion is passed on to successive generations by indoctrination, how can people be held accountable for believing in the "Wrong" God, when faith does not require proof, or concrete evidence to support it?
antidote2010 3 years ago 2
I know many Christians who are very good friends of mine and they accept me as a non-believer as well as my oldest brother. I prefer living my life through ZEN. To those people who believe I have nothing against but the Bible I am against. Too much contradiction too much hate. I'm about living in the now with my family and friends. Live life everyday like it's going to be my last. I can't live life for some deity that does not exist but I can live for my family, friends and for me. Cheers!
ShutterBug717 3 years ago
Ok, now I have nothing against theists. In fact I've been friends with many of them. Now I'm a strong atheist not because of you but because your religion makes no sense. It's contradictory and illogical. It has no evidence for it's claims. I need evidence! Not storys or some guys name. I need evidence. Your claims make no sense, this is why I am an atheist. I'm with science and reason. Since they have evidence. So theres your answer. Your religion does not have any evidence for its claims.
Aceotana 3 years ago
You seem like a great guy. I don't know why anyone wouldn't want to be your friend. Some of the things that turn non-believers off of Christians is a) some are not as accommodating as you seem, and b) some have the belief that they can do whatever they like (for example being awful to people) and will go to heaven because they are Christians... and yet argue that even the most nicest, most caring, most "Jesus-like" person, will go to hell if they don't believe in Christianity. Hope this helps.
snigglebottom 3 years ago
Fatherbookburn, glory! You are a true Christian!!!
coralarch 3 years ago
1) Stop pushing your religion. You have been here for about 1500 years. Yes, we have heard about you. Stop it!
2) Even though you may feel more favorited than the rest who are not of your religion, does not give you the right to do or say derogatory things about them. Especially when not true.
This is called prejudice, bigotry, defamation of character,...far from the 'Holy Spirit talking through you.'
Though if it is, you best think about that.
fonna 3 years ago
3) Educate yourself on other religions and non religious groups before you say things that make yourselves look uneducated. And get it from an unbiased source.
Christiandotnet, Islamdotnet, Buddhistdotnet,etc... are biased sources.
4) Accept that every group was the persecuted and the persecutor at one time or another in history. Because this is true. It's one of the more repugnant human traits.
Herd mentality.
fonna 3 years ago
You people are all mocking the one and true living GOD, and He will not stand for it. You might like to educate yourself on past examples where GOD has shown he has no tolerance for such behaviour. Here is one example (here's a hint: REPENT NOW!)
Deuteronomy 28:27 "The LORD will strike you with the same boils that plagued the Egyptians. He will strike you with hemorrhoids, sores, and itching that won't go away."
SashineB 3 years ago
You sound like an infomercial "REPENT NOW!"
You mean you don't like when you're mocked, and you can't take what you hand out. Too bad. "Flingeth your crappeth into the opposing winds, and findeth out what happenseth"
Hellations 4:20
fonna 3 years ago
Fonna is no respect man of god. Fonna will burnings in hel and I laff.
gabrielikestickytape 3 years ago
Hemorrhoids is what? Ichy arsey? I haveing this after sexy with mans.
gabrielikestickytape 3 years ago
We've been waiting 2000 years. Lets bring some o' dat boilin and hemorrhoidin ONNN!!!
YEEEEEEEEAHHHHHHHHHHh
Have fun sucking your minister's dick. I'm going to setup my movie-PC system and watch movies making fun of you morons.
bkisme 3 years ago
Worst relgoin being kommunism. I asken Giod kill all kommunist, he no ansering me. Good evning sir. Mr Busy, Im, not unsertandin you spek I lern Inglesh onaly 7 monhtes. Sory fore this.
gabrielikestickytape 3 years ago
There's so many things that we know about the origins of christianity, the history of the bible, of judaism, of the old testament. There are great many things that should be teached in school ABOUT christianity(and a many other religions as well), but we are not allowed to do so, becouse that would questionize christianity, and questionizing another person's religion is a taboo. Apparently, "the truth" does have something to fear from investigations.
Wulfshade 3 years ago
It's the intolerant, judgemental, absolutist theology many of them hold: Jesus is the only way, follow the laws in the bible or you will be damned. They teach that I am so miserable that I deserve to burn in hell unles unles I stop commiting the thought crime of NOT believing as they do. Then add the fact that christianity holds a sacred position in public, and none is allowed to criticise it nor questionise it.
Wulfshade 3 years ago
wulfshade, is sound muchings lik kommunism!
gabrielikestickytape 3 years ago
Let us be careful. Our job is not be worry about offending feelings. If you follow the bible you will treat and love your neighbor as yourself and let feelings fall where they may. It is our nature to not appreciate being told what to do. Inform and let others pick their path. Give the message in love with no apologies. God is love, God is also truth. You correct your child because you love them. It is because God is holy that we have to deny our nature to see him.
zangelo1 3 years ago
Good of you to ask!! stop threataning people with everlasting fire and damnation and realise that God is LOVE not HATE
tegid699 3 years ago
Actually the Hebrew word for LOVE also means KOWLEDGE and RAPE. As for hate...Luke 14:26.
formless777 3 years ago
I thinkin Formless yuo ar secret polizei.
gabrielikestickytape 3 years ago
Why do you think that Gabriel ? Have you many terrible secrets to hide from the Law ? Like killing your wife and robbery and gay prostitution ? You are a funny funny man.
formless777 3 years ago
Yuo making funnings with me? Not killen wife. Yet. Just askings. If I kil, and she not savings by bloood of Jesus, she go to Hel, yes? I going jaol, I get savings, I get excuted, I go Heven. Just wantings make sure. If this tru, then is best relgoin for me. PLese advsings, sir.
gabrielikestickytape 3 years ago
The best religion is one you don't have to pay for Gabriel. Any God worth its salt isn't interested in your money because it is a spiritual entity and has no use for it. Any religion which asks you for money is lying to you and you shouldn't listen to anything they say because they are going to hell.
formless777 3 years ago
Is so tru good sirs! Im be intrested in going to heven after killins wife. I gettign saves, I kil her, I got to heven. Very good religroin.
gabrielikestickytape 3 years ago
Not true, Formless! You will do well to heed the word of the LORD:
II Corinthians 9:7 "Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver."
SashineB 3 years ago
Exactly what i would say to the rubes if I wanted them to shell out the clams for nothing.
The thing you worship is a lie and the people who serve him are either hopelessly gullible and uneducated or vicious con artists.
formless777 3 years ago
Well, there are many different people in the world with different skin color, accents, countries, and even different beliefs. There are more beliefs in the world than you could shake a stick at, and many of those beliefs are different than Christian beliefs. And many people like those beliefs better despite anything that Christians do. I know that this is a difficult concept for you but if you meditate (pray) on it for a little while you may start to understand it.
PrimeEvolutionary 3 years ago
1) stop pushing it on us
2) stop pushing for prayer in schools
3) stop trying to influence government
4) stop trying to influence legislation
5) stop say we are going to burn in hell
6) stop shunning us for not believing
7) stop being so narrow minded as you can see this list can go on and on and on.... limited letters though. I hope this helped. I have no problem with any religion until it begins to affect my life. christianity is big for that over here.
systematic101 3 years ago 4
@systematic101 What he said.
hawklord2001 1 year ago
to be honest it is a mixture of things. for instance islam christianity and judaism all preach peace and love for your fellow man, yet more people have been murdered in the name of god than for any other purpose in history. another problem is that according to the bible the earth is only 6k yrs old and every creature that ever existed on the planet did so at the same time. this means humans and dinosaurs coexisted which i find hard to believe. it just makes more sense that everything happened
RGDA4LIFE 3 years ago
gradually over time and not all at once. the last problem i will mention is that anthropologists have found over 5000 different versions of the old testament and no 2 are alike: grammatical spelling and even story changes if gods word is infallible why are there 5000 different versions of it? i agree that it is not a personal thing its just that in my head the it doesnt add up i tried to believe but something in my head just kept sayin "something isnt right here" if u want more reasons just ask.
RGDA4LIFE 3 years ago
I would suggest that the turn off is not personality related... it is the quality of your logic and argument.
telecasteratx 3 years ago
I don't know. I'm a Christian, so I can only answer for myself. I think many people think we're supposed to be perfect, when in fact, Christians are human too, and we also make mistakes. I have had to acknowledge my mistakes and not worry about what they think. The DIFFERENCE between Christians and nonbelievers is that we KNOW we need Christ, we know we need that daily walk, that daily forgiveness. I'm not sure nonbelievers grasp that concept.
liliodine 3 years ago
The DIFFERENCE between nonbelievers and christians is that we know that christ is a fairytale just like Thor, Zeus, leprechauns and unicorns. No educated atheist thinks christians have to be perfect and no its not the reason we're not all flocking to the banner. We all make mistakes because we're human, not because some magic man wanted to be worshiped so he created weak beings in need of guidance. Meet a guy who needs to be worshiped I bet you'd think he had a low self esteem, but a god...
cidvisions 3 years ago
Simple...stop interfearing in schools, the law, and peoples lives. keep religion to thy self. pay taxes within the church. stop preaching to everyone they are sinners and going to hell.and paying your minister sick amounts of money for a vocation, a belief.
If you want to believe then it is your right and i will defend it, it is also my right to live in a secular society and not to be told how to live my life. and stop the picketing of cemetaries and the courts to force religious dogma.
quattro610 3 years ago
Jesus said the summary of the law is to do unto others as you would have them do to you. You enslave yourself to a book full of ritualistis animal sacrafice / murder / voodoo etc. You also have a horrible tendency to impose your will upon others, you even have the gall to attempt legislating your morals on others, (successfully sometimes) That's why me and God say YOU SUCK just like we ALWAYS have. Because we call 'em as we see 'em. Fools enslave themselves to anciant retarded texts.
mutedmajority 3 years ago
Christians don't put people in hell..God gives us our own will to decide for our self which path we want to take,the worlds way or My Masters,Jesus Christs way.So we as Christian can not send people to hell!If you say there are Christians who think they can well SHAME ON THEM!We as Believers do not have the right to judge anyone for their sins or tell them they are going to hell! What happen to praying for the lost ones? I can't wait to get to Heaven! Lord take me soon cause this world is CRAZY!
onobeach 3 years ago
i would like you NOT to follow christ but unfortunately that would require too much thinking and logic. btw been there, done that, no thank you.
machnroll16 3 years ago
I respect that Christians have there beliefs but I get put off by them putting GOD (not Jesus) in a box. They confine God's plan to a book that can be read and interpreted more than one way. I mean if the 12 disciples who were with Jesus daily didn't understand him what makes them so much more advanced and knowledgable?
I would just like to hear someone say
"Honestly, I Don't Know"(including Pastors,Priest etc etc) rather than spouting of something they had dictated to them.
ripman21 3 years ago
phariseetv. you seem like a friendly and genuine guy so i say just be yourself. Live the way and if people see that it is good they too will want to walk as you walk. But with molesting preists, thieving ministers, hypocritical church goers, the religious fanatics as news correspondents, i don't think 'saying' anything will attract an atheist.
DHMIII 3 years ago
Fair enough. I just don't want to turn people off because of my attitude.
phariseetv 3 years ago
I grew up a christian.. not anymore but I have my beliefs and faith. What turned me away is the hypocricies of the church and people in it. The "we are right and all else wrong" mindset without any real gift of knowledge Why. Idol worship. Ignorant Faith. Using the Bible as the absolute authority when it has been doctored and changed over the 1700 or so years its existed.. And then not knowing or wanting to know anything else about it except the paper its written on. And im speaking for myself.
DHMIII 3 years ago
same reason why Christians are turned off by what non-Christians believe. Nobody wants to be pressured into changing - changing their beliefs, or ways of living. Change must come naturally. What works for one person doesn't necessarily work for the other, mainly because people are at different levels of perceiving life. I have my own belief about life, but I wouldn't dare push it onto anyone, because it could do damage, and mostly alienate myself from others. Christians often push too much.
yennjfer8 3 years ago
well kev i'm jewish and i have no problims with any xtians til they want me to be one . but they are not the first to whisper or in some cases yell in our ears come with us and worship a g-d you haave not known . but to try to answer you in short show your faith in your actions not in words
leojdroffaws3 3 years ago
zietgeist - the movie
90107 3 years ago
Further to my last post about Christian turn- offs- when I mentioned that a certain Christian had molested me in my youth, the Christian to whom I addressed my remarks screamed that I was a child molester and a pervert. How he concluded that, I will never know.
coralarch 3 years ago
Some dear Christians on Youtube warble on about Jesus's grace, love and forgiveness, and then either abuse unbelievers or block us from asking further questions. Why on earth should we take their claims seriously, if that's the sort of behaviour they indulge in? Why shouldn't we question their ludicrous claims, their subjective superstitions?
coralarch 3 years ago
Coralarch, it's very sad to think that such judgments can be made by people who insist that their beliefs are the only correct ones, and then when others don't agree, the finger of blame is pointed!
LS57 3 years ago
Oh, yes, LS57. Very true. Projection and denial are the two most primitive defence mechanisms. Have you ever read "The Jesus Hoax" by Phyllis Graham? It's a blistering indictment of Jesus himself- ( and his ghastly followers) written by a former nun. Wonderful reading.
coralarch 3 years ago
Well telling us, atheist are going to burn in hell might be a start.. (not you personally)
I've gotten that allot..
I'll try to be more understanding too.
Thank you
404040wolf 3 years ago
hmm alot of people don't understand the bible, i'm gonna be Christian for life :D cuz i know it's the right religion.
bladezored 3 years ago
thanx 4 the question most christians are not concerned how others view them . i believe God is big enough to defend himself he doesnt need hostile religious people to do it . and the scriptures say that traditions make the word of God to none affect . tradition is poisen, by tradition i mean rituals and unspoken rules that arent addressed in the bible.i could never live up to the standards that are required . you seem to be someone who is not judgmental although i couldnt say that about most.
hollergirl2 3 years ago
Hmm.
Well, I'd say the thing that usually gets to me has been my inability to speak to my christian friends of the trappings of their faith (the bible, certain dogmas, etc) without causing offense. I'm a reasonable, logical person, and yet I'm usually met with hostility when bringing certain issues up.
I can't understand why they call certain things 'right' or 'correct' and yet refuse to discuss them as thy would any other assessment of value.(cont'd)
mediusnacht 3 years ago
(cont'd) This is most frequently manifest in the double standard many Christians give the Bible. They quote it as truth, and often use it as a point in debate, and yet many refuse to discuss it critically, or respect the fact that the atheist they're discussing with likely puts no more value in the Bible than the Christian does the Koran.
(cont'd)
mediusnacht 3 years ago
(cont'd) Actually, I'll stick with just that for now. :)
mediusnacht 3 years ago
I've had the opposite experience: nasty names, insults to the female members of my family, threats of violence, and all around general emotional rather than reasoned response. I've tried to discuss atheism/agnosticism through science, leaving God/the Bible out of it with virtually the same result. Always the same- shouting, cursing, and of course the threats. However, I have made the effort whenever possible.
whuduhheck 3 years ago
Actually that is not true. The atheist who has achieved any kind of lasting worldly success from reading books on success has benefited from wisdom from the Bible. The Bible is riddled with information, when applied correctly, has created massive monetary wealth for people throughout time. In fact, many proclaimed atheists are starting to become aware that there are natural laws of success and are learning to take advantage of those laws. Madonna is one of those atheists.
demolishun2 3 years ago
Not clear on what you're saying here, Demolishun. Are you saying that it isn't true that an atheist most likely does not consider the bible to be in any way authoritative? If this is what you're claiming, I would ask what source of authority validates the bible from an atheistic viewpoint? If you'd like to discuss this in depth, feel free to PM me.
mediusnacht 3 years ago
Study people who have attained massive treasures. They all have common characteristics. One of those characteristics is that they have attained treasures based upon their service to others. "Treasures" being all forms of wealth. One of the ideas common in these groups is that the more you give of yourself, the more you will attain. It is described as a karma of sorts. The Bible is riddled with hints to this in the old and new testament. This law of reciprocity is evident at all levels.
demolishun2 3 years ago
"Study people who have attained massive treasures."
I have to wonder what survey data you're drawing this from, Demo. It hardly seems to square with the history I'm familiar with.
mediusnacht 3 years ago
That is because this information is not being taught in schools. If it were there would be more millionaire professors. Here are some books to get you started:
"Think and Grow Rich" Napoleon Hill
"Know Your Limits - Then Ignore Them" John Mason
"Cash Flow Quadrant" Robert T. Kiyosaki
"The Anatomy of Peace" The Arbinger Institute
"Launching the Leadership Revolution" Chris Brady and Orrin Woodward
There are many more, but I remember specific references to passages or themes in those.
demolishun2 3 years ago
I reread the upper part:
I think I understand where you are coming from here. I have difficulty with creationism that says the world was created according to the literal way the bible was written in Genesis. I believe science can be a witness to God's truth. When religion forgets that and does not adjust views of historical significance with in-your-face evidence then it services no-one. The same danger occurs when science does the same thing regarding "religion" as a trivial social "thing".
demolishun2 3 years ago
LaMer,
I apologize for those who have acted that way towards you. This is very eye opening to me.
phariseetv 3 years ago
Many of (not all) the christians I've encountered in my life have been very arrogant towards me. They like to insult my intelligence by speaking to me as if I am uneducated and not capable of forming my own opinions and beliefs. This is what turns me off.
LaMer162 3 years ago
Read up on the scientific end of it, and then ask some critical questions. A theory only becomes a theory when it is challenged and proven empirically to be true, until then, it is only a hypothesis. Why then are some "theories" protected by law or ridicule or personal attacks or insults? If Christianity is a fable, then why should anyone be offended that someone else holds those beliefs? See what the chance is that life spontaneously started from a toxic chem. soup. 10 to 40,000 power to 1.
whuduhheck 3 years ago
whud: I've read much on the scientific end of it. No theories are protected by "law or ridicule or personal attacks or insults."
As to Christianity being a fable: if people took it as seriously as the tooth fairy, I would too.
As to your numbers on abiogenesis: since we don't know the mechanism, we can make no meaningful statistical guesses as to the probability of an abiogenesis event occurring. Saying otherwise is scientifically disingenuous.
mediusnacht 3 years ago
I believe, a lot of science is a big, gigantic load of BULLSHIT. Believing and having faith in Jesus is the ONLY way. When you're dead and standing before him, you can explain your scientific beliefs and see if he agrees with you.
dskennie 3 years ago
"I believe, a lot of science is a big, gigantic load of BULLSHIT. Believing and having faith in Jesus is the ONLY way. When you're dead and standing before him, you can explain your scientific beliefs and see if he agrees with you."
Pharisee: Take note: this is what turns me off about christians. Ignorant damning of anyone who doesn't agree with them. Thanks for giving such a shining example, dskennie.
mediusnacht 3 years ago
You're very welcome. Don't be turned off by my defending of Christianity. If someone feels strongly about something, they'll defend it. I think you should take that into consideration. It's God you should worry about not defensive Christians, after all, it's about your relationship with God. Please forgive me for my ignorance.
dskennie 3 years ago
Defense of a position based upon logic and reason is one thing. Threats of damnation are another.
If you belief (or your god) needs defending in this manner, it's time to find a new belief (or god).
mediusnacht 3 years ago
I'm not changing my God, but I understand what you're saying. You guys seem so close-minded. It seems like you don't give it a chance. You let one thing be wrong about it then you completely turn your back. You might actually like it. You become offensive when one person says something wrong. It's not about your relationship with Christ not man.
dskennie 3 years ago
"You guys seem so close-minded. It seems like you don't give it a chance."
I gave it plenty of chance. But more importantly: threats aren't likely to change anyones mind. I'm swayed by reasoned argument. Any belief system worth holding should stand up on this level, and from my own study Christianity (the beliefs, not the people), does not. If you feel you can convince me otherwise with reasoned argument, feel free to PM me.
mediusnacht 3 years ago
dskennie- science has told us a LOT about the natural world that your God supposedly created in 6 measly days, so why wouldn't Jesus be interested in a dead person's scientific beliefs?
coralarch 3 years ago
anything that is fact he knows anyway, there is nothing he doesn't know. he even knows what we think, even if it's false. It is one who lacks faith that believes that he cannot create all of existence in 6 days, which he did- and the bible didn't say 6-twenty-four hour increments, a day could mean 1 million years, but he could have done it in 144 hours, he could have done it in 144 seconds
dskennie 3 years ago
Some people believe in God through blind faith while others want absolute proof or there is no belief. So how do you reconcile these extremes? How can one person wonder at the magnitude of beauty in nature and not think there is a design process of deliberate origin? How can one solve an equation that seems to hold the key to the random yet structured result that seems so mechanical and unsupervised? Are we looking at the same thing with different lenses?
demolishun2 3 years ago
I can marvel at nature, too, without imagining that some psychopath designed it all, knowing that he was going to destroy his craation and tip a good number of them into eternal hellfire.
coralarch 3 years ago
god is not a psychopath
kylexysbiggestfan 3 years ago
What makes you think God is a psychopath? Your image of the creator is very different from mine. Please explain why you have this image.
demolishun2 3 years ago
Any person who is able to read the Old Testament and not have their stomach churned by the atrocities ordered by "God" is in need of serious therapy.
coralarch 3 years ago
There is no doubt that God has a favored people. Even his favorites get smacked around when they disobey.
Please explain which atrocities are you referring to? Before you do
let me ask you this: If you created the universe and your creation started bad mouthing you, Would you not be upset? If not, why? Are you bound to some kind of moral conduct when there is NO moral standard? Why don't you kill your neighbor when he looks at you wrong? What high and mighty person should be making law?
demolishun2 3 years ago
There seems to be a problem with the type of logic you're using here, Demolishun, and it runs you headlong into the theodicy problem. The currently accepted view of god makes him omniscience and omnipotent. This would mean god created things as they were knowing that they'd turn out this way, knowing that sin would come and screw everything up, and knowing that he'd have to slaughter all the world twice over. In other words, this strange and often horror-filled world was his plan all along.
mediusnacht 3 years ago
Yes, because of free-will. God knew full well that free-will would allow people to disobey. However, the slaughter you refer to was our doing not his. God is responsible for creation, but his creature is responsible for the creature's choices. Even knowing this God still loved us enough to create us. Would you have killed Hitler as an infant if you knew he would be come Hitler? Free-will is the "image" God duplicated not necessarily a physical or spiritual form.
demolishun2 3 years ago
"However, the slaughter you refer to was our doing not his."
So the blame goes not to the person who created it so that it would happen this way, but to the players who acted it out the plan? Seems an odd way to let god off the hook. I'm not going to debate this further in a 500 word comment list, but this would be an interesting discussion for a longer format.
mediusnacht 3 years ago
Free-will is the greatest gift God could have given us. Yes, he knew the consequences of the action of creation. The bible also shows how he has even wept for the children who do not understand him. Would you rather have a world where everything comes easy? With no way to test yourself to become more through challenge? Without free-will that world would not exist.
demolishun2 3 years ago
"Would you rather have a world where everything comes easy?"
You assume this is the only way things can be if they are not the way they are currently. I have to ask why you'd assume this?
There seems to be no valid reason to assume that demonstrably worse consequences would flow from a world made in some other way.
mediusnacht 3 years ago
Ah, but we don't live in a world that is any other way do we?
Now how about this twist. What if biological evolution is a clue as to how mental and spiritual evolution occurs in the human? Albeit the metaphysical evolution would be happening at a much higher rate than the physical. The continual challenge to our being that makes us stronger if we survive. I think nature can tell us a lot about our non-physical side. Now we start to see why someone would choose death over betraying belief.
demolishun2 3 years ago
"Ah, but we don't live in a world that is any other way do we? "
This doesn't seem to address the dilemma posed at all. Last comment on this subject, as this seems to be going nowhere.
mediusnacht 3 years ago
On the contrary, I think this is getting very interesting.
"There seems to be no valid reason to assume that demonstrably worse consequences would flow from a world made in some other way."
Actually there are great modern examples:
Nazi Germany, USSR, China, North Korea
Some of these are openly anti religion while others have created distorted views of Christianity. I think China may have bought itself some time by re allowing religion to be practiced.
demolishun2 3 years ago
"Actually there are great modern examples:"
Wow. Ok, yeah. There's far too much wrong with this to address in a 500 character post.
mediusnacht 3 years ago
What exactly in wrong with that? Have you done your homework and read those books? Is it possible that WHEN God created the universe that he implanted the secret to all success into the very fabric of existence? Is is possible that the bible in its current form is a blueprint for the best way to live based upon those rules implanted into existence? Think of it like university classes: How to wage war 101, How to resist corruption due to power 101, How to care for people 101.
demolishun2 3 years ago
"Is it possible that..."
Many things are possible. I would suggest that I, and even you, do not live our lives based upon what's possible but what's probable and useful. This seems to me neither. I've read the bible, it's an interesting book, but to call it more than a record of myth, superstition, and questionable historical record would be a stretch.
mediusnacht 3 years ago
"I believe science can be a witness to God's truth. When religion forgets that and does not adjust views of historical significance with in-your-face evidence then it services no-one. The same danger occurs when science does the same thing regarding "religion" as a trivial social "thing"."
The beliefs contained in the bible built the greatest civilization to ever exist on Earth yet those beliefs are trivialized.
demolishun2 3 years ago
"The beliefs contained in the bible built the greatest civilization to ever exist on Earth yet those beliefs are trivialized."
The beliefs in the Bible have built nothing. People have built many things, but beliefs cannot build. Even if you're using the idea that people believed a certain thing when constructing something great, that in no way justifies (or necessarily even relates to) their belief.
mediusnacht 3 years ago
Then where did law come from? What is the basis for which the legal system operates? Why would anyone have any intrinsic value beyond that of cattle or property? Why does the constitution of the USA say every human being has intrinsic value because they are human? Without a belief in God the human being is nothing more than an animal that can be killed, owned, used, tortured, etc without consequence. Your ability to voice your opinion is due to that belief. Without God you are nothing.
demolishun2 3 years ago
"Then where did law come from?"
Earliest example of written law is Hammurabi's Code, which predates the biblical texts and bears a much closer resemblance to modern law than biblical law does.
"What is the basis for which the legal system operates?"
This is a nonsensical question.
"Why would anyone have any intrinsic value beyond that of cattle or property?"
Good question, and one that almost all philosophies try to answer. The bible is not special in this respect.
mediusnacht 3 years ago
"Why does the constitution of the USA say every human being has intrinsic value because they are human?"
Mostly from the Greeks (who predate the biblical accounts) and from the Enlightenment's resurgence of Greek ideas and ethics.
"Without a belief in God the human being is nothing more than an animal that can be killed... without consequence."
The whole body philosophic stands as a retort to this statement.
"Without God you are nothing."
Funny, I seem to be something.
mediusnacht 3 years ago
The Greeks believed in Gods. They believed they were decedents of Gods. They assigned greater value to human life as a result.
"whole body philosophic"
? Can't find any reference to that phrase.
"Funny, I seem to be something."
I should have finished with "...but an animal."
Would you believe a physical manifestation of God's power? Would you need proof as Thomas did?
demolishun2 3 years ago
"They believed they were decedents of Gods. They assigned greater value to human life as a result."
This is patently untrue, and shows your own lack of familiarity with Greek philosophy and history.
"Would you believe a physical manifestation of God's power?"
I would first need to believe in god to believe a manifestation of its power.
"Would you need proof as Thomas did?"
It's funny that the one person who wanted rational proof is demonized and rebuked for his reasonable request...
mediusnacht 3 years ago
there is proof,The Bible
kylexysbiggestfan 3 years ago
Lets have a thought experiment: Mike raised to believe tooth fairy is real. There are books written about it, and of course the rituals, peer pressure, and everything needed to keep one's faith strong. Would you (as a non-believer) not find it silly?
I think it's an insult to intelligence.
Not being possible to have a decent discussion about religion is a another issue. Most christians know less about their bible than me, and after some arguments many of my christian friends will.. (reply->)
domenpuncer 3 years ago
admit they don't really buy into the church crap (dunno about there, but here there are some obvious problems with it), and neither the bible. Many just believe there's something higher, a god. Yet, what really bothers me about these is that they still obey christian tradition, get their kids baptized and caught in the same evil loop.
So, to sum it up, I think for me, on a personal level, it's the lack of reason.
Sorry if that sounds harsh. From what little I know about you, you seem nice.
domenpuncer 3 years ago