Use your God given intuition: who shows a higher consciousness level? who kills or who respects life?, who steal or who share? who enslave or who frees? who envy or who love? who is selfish or who is selfless? who is materialistic or who is spiritual?. We are due to move to the next consciousness level by rejecting all materialism and selfishness. Those were Jesus teachings, which atheism reject. God will act, and anyone that refuse to move may be expendable. Open your eyes before is too late.
@LamaPaj Mankind is due for moving to a higher consciousness plane. The same way the suffering of gazelles killed by lions make the species stronger, the suffering of mankind will help us move to the next consciousness level. A greater good comes for the species. The next level is the rejection of greed, materialism and selfishness. Our current capitalist system need to collapse in order to achieve this. If you're not ready spiritually, and doesn't move up, you'll suffer. Seek God.
@LamaPaj God exists, that's the accepted claim by the majority of people, you want to challenge that, bring the evidence, the burden of proof is on YOU. Some narrow minded atheist proposed the wrong notion that atheism doesn't require evidence and many gullible atheists had run to foolishly embrace it. Philosophically the burden of proof is in the argument challenging the establishment. What evidence you have that atheism is true? None, zero, nada. Open your eyes, you're being deceived.
@dejesusluisx Well, to begin with I live in a nation where only 23% of the population believe in ANY god. Also, the burden of proof is placed on those who makes claims. You claim that god exists, I never claimed that god does not exist, only that i do not believe that a god does. And even if god does exist hes the meanest and evilest motherfucker imaginable, so why worship him!?
@LamaPaj ""Well, to begin with I live in a nation where only 23% of the population believe in ANY god."" In your case, then theists need to go prepared to present their argument, that's the way it works and it works both ways whether I like it or not. I have a few arguments you might find interesting.
"if god does exist hes the meanest" your problem isn't with God, is with the man made dogmas people had created in trying to explain God's reality, which people feel but can't really grasp.
@LamaPaj Suffering caused by man is a necessary consequence of free will. Most of the bad things that happen to all of us are due to ours or to another person's free will. Free will is God's greatest gift to mankind and He would not take that away by intervening constantly. God can't be obvious or Faith and free will would be eliminated, we would be God's slaves, which would be contrary to his creation intent. A world where man can't freely choose to harm is not truly free. God made us free.
@dejesusluisx So then you argue that god values the free will of evil men higher then the well being of good people? And anyway, if god created us he could have created us without any ill intents and limitless love for all life and we could still have free will without evil. but obviously he didn't.
@LamaPaj "you argue that god values the free will of evil men higher then the well being of good people?" exactly. Free will is the reason of our existence, before taking away free will, he will first destroy all mankind, guaranteed. "created us without any ill intents" We evolved from animals, evolution is Gods mechanism for creation, so we still carry our selfish animal instincts, that's what God wants us to reject out of our free will.
@dejesusluisx So God was stuck in a paradox, he could give us all free will, but he couldnt create free will with out creating evil as a choice. That shows utter weakness, that he was restricted by logic, he is God almighty for fuck sake, his power is unlimited, and should have been able to do create free will with out evil, what a useless god.
@LouisPlume ""That shows utter weakness"" Can you create a married bachelor? Can someone know something that do not exist? Can you draw a round parallelogram ? There are things that are logically incoherent and not being possible is in their own nature, by no means they mean God is weak. I'm afraid that example isn't using sound rational thought.
@LouisPlume he could create free will w/o evil.But it would lack the free will of being evil, And some believe they have that right (and if we believe in reincarnation too ,those "some"are all of us probably in different degrees,otherwise we wouldnt be here ,) This question/problem you touched however is the top of the icebirg
@delagrazia you make me want to headbutt a wall, we are evil are we, get a grip please, if god exists he left this world a long time ago, because if he is here he fucked us over big time, he created us you say, he created parasites that thrive in our brains, you know. its alright, you live your life praying to something that you want to think is real while we the real people have fun and get LAID.
@LouisPlume There's only one God, one divine consciousness, one conscious energy that created the universe with many names and dogmas created by men over many centuries in our desire to understand his essence. Dogmas might be real or not, but God is real, and to understand that reality you need to be in his wavelength.
@Antoniusan God is energy and to be in tune with energy, you need to be in the same wavelength. The same with God, you need to be in His wavelength to be saved. Buddhists call it Nirvana or Enlightenment, Hindus call that Moksha, Islam calls it Taubah and we call it living in Grace. There is only one Divine Consciousness with many names and dogmas, but just one reality. You can be spiritual and be one with God consciousness without religion, but to get somewhere, a map is always helpful.
At least me have a book, backing scientific arguments, logical arguments, personal manifestations, miracles, vision, etc. What do you have? a theory maybe? a pamphlet? a drawing in a napkin? what?
The truth is you have nothing, no arguments, no claims, no logic, nothing, nada, zero, not even a clue as to why atheism is right.
Irrefutably and conclusively, atheism is the ultimate delusion.
Every single argument to prove the existance of God has been flattened. There isn't a single one that has any merit, not now not 1000 years ago.
Atheism is incorrect? Like, lacking belief in God is incorrect? The only assertion made by atheists is that theists have failed to meet their burden of proof.
Giving God qualities that match pre-BB energies and saying he exists is the same as giving him the qualities of an animal we know to be real and saying he exists.
@YetAnotherInfidel All claims require evidence, mine and yours. The difference is that claims without evidence are faith claims, and I don't mind at all saying I base my claims on faith and therefore they are religious claims. Now if you don't mind being part of a cult and having atheism label as a religion, keep posting and don't get any evidence, Mr. cult member; but if you do,then get the evidence or shut up!!!
@dejesusluisx Well, I'll bet they held you back in second grade. >.>
Atheism isn't a claim, it needs no evidence. My only evidence is that I am thinking it. If I were making the claim that God doesn't exist, that would be different and I would offer evidence, but I am not nor are many of the other atheists you will run into. I simply dismiss the evidence you provide as insufficient or unfounded. In your case, I don't even have to look at evidence as you said yourself you have none.
@YetAnotherInfidel Atheists also make claims. They claim theists are deluded, that the Bible is a fairy tale and that God doesn't exist. These claims also required evidence to be proven otherwise they turn into faith claims. Do you like to be part of a cult? If not, then get the evidence or get out. If your atheism isn't based on evidence you're just changing one religion for another.
Is it possible an immaterial consciousness exists? Be honest. Is there a possible world in which it could?
@dejesusluisx Sure I'll grant you that we claim that you are deluded, that the bible is a fairy tale, but not that God doesn't exist. Claiming God doesn't exist would be foolhardy, look up "Russell's Teapot" as a reference.
I can defend The first two (claims some of us DO make).
1. There is no evidence showing that God exists. Despite there being no evidence, you believe, therefore you are deluded.
2. The Bible has magic, ritual, resurrection; Cinderella has magic, fate, fairies. Connection? YES
@YetAnotherInfidel "1. There is no evidence showing that God exists. Despite there being no evidence, you believe, therefore you are deluded" I do have evidence of God's existence, if you don't is because you don't want to open your heart and mind.
2. For an all powerful being, to move an atom that would produce the chain reaction needed to cause the resurrection of a body is science at it’s best, done as an exceptional gift for mankind's salvation.
My first point, that you are deluded, stands as you believe despite the lack of evidence. This would generally be ok, as you claim revelation, but you link it to the murderous and jelous, logically impossible God of Christianity, for reasons likely to be no more than random chance working in your favor.
Second, what?? For an all powerful being to allow so much suffering is ok, but bringing back an one person is a miracle?
@YetAnotherInfidel God is a spirit, an immaterial conscious being. All things in the universe consists of matter and/or energy, so if God isn't matter, is energy by definition. Energy is the capacity to do work, is eternal, omnipresent, wasn't created and can't be destroyed, can create matter, was the only thing present before the BB, and the energy required to make the universe must had been powerful. All these match Biblical descriptions of God. Therefore is plausible that God exists.
@YetAnotherInfidel God may allow natural evils and suffering in the word to obtain a greater good. The same way the suffering of gazelles killed by lions make the species stronger, the suffering of mankind help us move to a higher consciousness level. A greater good comes for the species which makes us better and move us closer to God. God always there to comfort you when that happen, as a father that allow a son to fall so he can learn, and is there to give us peace and hope.
You seem to have forgotten that you are talking about an ALL loving God.
Would your father knowingly allow you to fall down the stairs or break your leg if he loved you? No, and neither would God. God would, if true to his traits, make the world a much better place.
If, as you say, suffering leads to more who believe in it, then why doesn't your God feed the starving, quell the warring, and stop the suffering, afterwards placing a signature on the moon saying "I did this"?
@YetAnotherInfidel "Would your father knowingly allow you to fall down the stairs or break your leg if he loved you?" I'm a father and I allowed my kids to fall while riding a bike so they could learn or for them to swallow some water while learning to swim. There are things you can only learn after suffering a painful learning process.
God can't be obvious or we would lose our free will.
No, he can abosolutely be obvious. I'm sorry if allowing your kinds to fall or slurp some water is a valid analogy to allowing millions to starve and die without any such chance to learn. He can and should be painstakingly obvious, as otherwise he risks sending million, no, billions to suffer hellfire. Without proof, he is just as valid as Tinker Bell; fell him in your heart, sure, but what if you are feeling Krishna? Zues? Mithra?
@YetAnotherInfidel It is a necessary consequence of free will. Most of the bad things that happen to all of us are due to ours or to another person's free will. Free will is God's greatest gift to mankind and He would not take that away by intervening constantly. God can't be obvious or Faith and free will would be eliminated, we would be God's slaves, which would be contrary to his creation intent. A world where man can't freely choose to harm is not truly free. God want us to be good freely.
@YetAnotherInfidel After all the dust settles, we have only two choices. Either the universe brought itself into existence, or something outside the universe, an external cause brought it into existence. The problem is how something could brought itself into existence? Is not possible, therefore the cause must be external. The only thing present was energy. The God of the Bible is described with the same attributes of energy before energy was described. God existence is the best explanation.
@dejesusluisx...Or the universe is eternally oscillating, energy being the primal component of this singularity. Perhaps there are multiple universes, or many dimensions, or many of bodys so big we can't name it.
In any case, would you say that any old answer is better than none at all? What you are espousing is an argument from ignorance, an, "I don't know, therefore I know" argument.
I am so tired of theists putting themselves on a pedestal, saying that suffering exists for them to learn form.
@YetAnotherInfidel Multiple universes is a theory postulated by many physicists. Can you think of a possible universe in which God might exist? If you think God is a possibility, then God exist. The logical deduction comes from the fact that God is an all powerful being, so if God can exist in a possible world, then He would know all about the other worlds and since He has the power, He will move to exists in those too. So if God can exist in a possible world, then God must exist in every world
@YetAnotherInfidel ""avoid believing in something when no evidence exists."" There's plenty of scientific evidence that favors overwhelmingly the existence of a force directing the universe than the universe coming into existence out of randomness. The Penrose calculations, Hoyle calculations, the string theory landscape model, the BB model and the definition of energy all points towards a conscious force rather than pure chance. If you're unfamiliar with them, I could explain. God is real.
@Antoniusan God is a spirit, an immaterial conscious being. All things in the universe consists of matter and/or energy, so if God isn't matter, is energy by definition. Energy is the capacity to do work, is eternal, omnipresent, wasn't created and can't be destroyed, can create matter, was the only thing present before the BB, and the energy required to make the universe must had been powerful. All these match Biblical descriptions of God. Therefore is plausible that God exists.
@Antoniusan The definition of God is in the Bible, and I didn't made up the definition of energy either. And is too much of a coincidence that the only thing in the universe capable of making matter was defined scientifically the same way God is defined biblically. I'm just putting 2+2 together. When you consider that the ancient goat herders didn't have a clue of what they were talking about, the coincidence is awesome.
Look, I don't have to have any sort of knowledge of advanced physics or cosmology to understand that God is an impossibility. Omnipotence is impossible, your specific God's actions are deplorable, and being everywhere and being undetected is implausible.
Also, on the topic of many universes:
"if God can exist in a possible world, then God must exist in every world"
wrong, for two reasons:
I think I will put them on another comment, replying to this one.
1) God is not possible in any other world. He is a logically contradictive and impossible being. I could say that because he doesn't exist in this world, as shown by the lack of evidence and the problem of evil, he cannot exist in any world and therefore doesn't in this one. If God could exist then he would and would do do x y and z, under the problem of evil.
2) God is the ultimate power concieveable. What if a power greater than his, one we cannot concieve of, exists?
@YetAnotherInfidel "He is a logically contradictive and impossible being" prove it, where is your evidence?
"I could say that because he doesn't exist in this world" This statement doesn't follow the previous one, is a non-sequitur.
There is no problem of evil, just a lack of understanding of what evil is.
Make your case so you can see how effortlessly I destroy it. God is 100% logical. All things need to be the way they are and if you were God would act exactly the same way He does.
The two points were separate, one adressing his flaws, adressed through the problem of evil, and the second statement adressing the multiverse idea. The second, I said, is logically superior due to the mere possibility of there being a power greater than God.
The problem of evil, or, as many define it, suffering, IS valid. It stands as a blockade in theism to date.
I have no case to make, I am not affirming anything, other than the fact that your tri omni God cannot exist.
@YetAnotherInfidel "The problem of evil, or, as many define it, suffering, IS valid. It stands as a blockade in theism to date." Is blockade only in your mind. If you understand that the reason we exists is our free will, you will understand why evil must exist. Present a specific example and you'll see how easy it falls down like a house of cards.
2. Wow, I agree, but looking back I have to say that it really doesn't matter. You cannot think something into existance, whether or not logic dictates it, but in any case logic doesn't. I can agree that God may very well be real, I have always held to that possibility, but the Christian God is impossible. Like I have said, never has there been a successful agrument for God.
Tell me why the argument of evil hold no water, if you would?
@YetAnotherInfidel Suffering caused by man is a necessary consequence of free will. Most of the bad things that happen to all of us are due to ours or to another person's free will. Free will is God's greatest gift to mankind and He would not take that away by intervening constantly. God can't be obvious or Faith and free will would be eliminated, we would be God's slaves, which would be contrary to his creation intent. A world where man can't freely choose to harm is not truly free.
Agreed, suffering is a consequence of free will. Or it would be, if your God hadn't created us with the foreknowledge of who we are. He could have easily only allowed those that would freely make good choices and no bad live, easy for an omnipotent being. Yes, he must be obvious. If he isn't obvious, then the problem of Hell is valid instead. By the way, I am just going to pretend that you are providing evidence for all of your claims...
@YetAnotherInfidel "Or it would be, if your God hadn't created us with the foreknowledge of who we are" you need to understand the concept of foreknowledge. It can be compared to a forecast. Our current weather forecast can be pretty accurate, now imagine if we knew how every single atom can behave, in theory, we can have weather forecasts centuries in advance. But forecast have limitations, they depict what can be, not what is. An unmake decision doesn't exist, so God can't actually know it.
@dejesusluisx The problem of hell occurs when God sends those that aren't believers to a place of eternal suffering solely on the premise that they didn't have faith in the correct God. Without God being obvious, he risks sending billions to hell, and no omnibenevolent being would allow any such thing to occur.
@YetAnotherInfidel "when God sends those that aren't believers to a place of eternal suffering solely on the premise that they didn't have faith in the correct God" God doesn't send anyone to hell, hell is not a place, is the way you consciousness feel when not with God. Hell is the eternal darkness, the nothingness, is a default. God is light and the absence of light is darkness, Hell is the absence of God. You decide to go there by rejecting God.
@YetAnotherInfidel People just take bad decisions that make then suffer. If you are a parent you know that you have to make accountable your kids for their actions. If God would intervene on a daily basis, we would be His slaves; there would be no free will. God gave us the freedom to follow his advice or not. If you follow his advise, you will find happiness, if not it was your choice. True believers have also problems because of the free will of others.
God makes these decisions beforehand when he arbitrarily created us. Who said I wanted to be created? I didn't have free will then. If God intervened on a daily basis the world would be devoid of rape, murder, starvation; at the bare minimum he could eliminate natural evils. These natural evils existance has no effect on our free will, and thus should and must be eliminated.
His advice also consists of who to murder and when, who to punish and how, but you ignore that, huh?
@YetAnotherInfidel "If God intervened on a daily basis the world would be devoid of rape, murder, starvation" If that were the case, there would be no free will and no purpose for us to exist, God would take our consciousness away. "These natural evils existance has no effect on our free will, and thus should and must be eliminated" As I said, a greater good comes for the species. In Haiti there has been a resurgence of faith. Vodoo priests had rejected that faith and become Christians.
Faith in NEVER a quiality to be proud of. It is ignorance incarnate. Haiti's resurgence, if the world was predominately Muslim, would likely have been Muslim. We wouldn't lose consciousness to this God is he simply hadn't messed it all up in the first place, making only those that would freely choose to do the right thing. God is responcible for everything, as he created all the rules and knows what would happen beforehand.
@YetAnotherInfidel ""Your religion has Muslims going to hell, just like everyone else. Jesus is the only way to heaven, it's in your bible"" Jesus was a message, the logos, the incarnated verb. A message is to be acted upon, not to be hang on a wall to be admired. Jesus is a way of obtaining the grace, a role model to be followed, it's living in grace that saves us, not just a belief. Anyone living in grace can be saved.
@YetAnotherInfidel God didn't cause directly the natural evils, they are the product or natural laws in action. God have the power to stop them, and I'm positive God had stopped most, but God would allow some to occur because the benefits for mankind would outweigh the suffering they might cause.
You still haven't demonstrated why natural evils are a necessarily true factor in life. I though you advocated God staying out of our lives, but you go and say that he stops some and allows some to kill many? Adress those that will goto hell as well, as that is infinitely more immoral than allowing a few earthly deaths.
@YetAnotherInfidel God talk to people every day and every time through their consciousness but if we don’t live in grace and we choose not listen, then, we're not guided by the Holy Spirit and we suffer. Also suffering is allowed when a greater good comes out of it. A disease might be a suffering, but if salvation, which is a greater good, will result out of it, God will allow it.
@dejesusluisx You just said God had to be subtle. Really? Talking on a personal level? And why can't those that have never heard of God feel this subconsciously? Are they sent to hell for being infidels? If you truly believed that heaven existed you would rejoice at the idea of cancer among those who believe, but you almost certainly don't. Those that die without "Him in thier hearts" end up in hell, where is the salvation there?
@YetAnotherInfidel "And why can't those that have never heard of God feel this subconsciously?" They do, that's why there are thousands of Gods and religions. "Are they sent to hell for being infidels?" As I said, God doesn't send anyone to Hell, people send themselves. Man knows in his heart what is good or bad. That is what guide us and that will be the ruler for someone that haven't heard the word.
You are now qualified to be a grade A immoral prick. Your unproven, unproveable God must neccesarily be believed in to be able to go and kiss his ass FOREVER? That is infinitely immoral. You go on to say that people send themselves to Hell? What??? No, God made the rules and could choose to send no one to hell but he does. Hell is not just because you are punished for a finite crime with an infinite punishment, on top of the fact that the crime could be rape OR a simple lie.
@YetAnotherInfidel Any person, of any religion, can have God’s grace. Religious dogmas don't determine your Faith in God. You may have the craziest beliefs but if you're righteous, live under God’s laws and conduct your life putting God first always, you can be saved. He is a personal God. God was before religions, before the Bible, before man, and before time. Live under God’s love in His wavelength and you can be saved. Dogmas were created by man trying to understand God. Religion is a tool.
@YetAnotherInfidel "Seriously, no one can choose to send themselves to hell. Watch AE episode 672" these is nothing I can learn from someone that doesn't know God intimately. This is like me trying to talk to you about your significant other from some article I read in a magazine. I know God, personally and intimately, and what I'm telling you is what He has shown me. You either are in God's wavelength or not, if you are, you go with Him, if not, you go to the eternal darkness, that's all.
Looks like we are at an impasse, one which prevents our discussion from progressing.
You are content with the belief that God, which has no evidence, and more specifically, Jesus, who is even less likely, are the key to life. You go further and likely believe in the literal hell, where the majority of the world will go. Ultimately, your faith in your God is a testimony that can be given by anyone, at any time, with exactly your certainty.
@YetAnotherInfidel Hell as is often described, doesn't exists. Hell is the absence of God. God don't send anyone to hell, people send themselves by not being in God's wavelength. When you die, your soul, which is eternal energy, has to go somewhere. If your soul energy is in the same wavelength (by living in grace) is pulled (same as a magnet) to God. If you are not in sync, your are not pull and wander in the darkness for ever.
Ok, so you basically admit to making this shit up as you go along. You don't follow what the Bible says, you make up stuff about your God (wavelinks) that is simply a plug to keep your dam o' religion from leaking. You don't even know what hell is and even if it was like you say (no evidence, once again) that is still crap. Any kind of eternal life, after about a billion years, would be the worst thing to ever live through. It is worse than hell; at least you feel something there.
@YetAnotherInfidel Our Soul, when we die, go to God or not; God is light. You end up either in the light or in the darkness. If you're in God's same wavelength, you're attracted to the light, if not, you remain in the dark. The problem is you're fully conscious while you're in the dark, and because of that, the anxiety feels like fire. Hell is the eternal darkness. This was revealed to me in a dream. I wasn't a believer then, I am now. I visited the place. I've never been in such anxiety.
We are finally at the sole reason that you believe, which is that you FEEL that in a DREAM you experienced the result of living a life out of God's grace.
The ironic thing is that, by Googling "severe anxiety disorder", the first result is "Anxiety is a Living Hell". Stress and a number of factors could have caused this dream, but you would rather believe in a God.
I am sorry, but I am inclined to take nothing on faith as belief without evidence constitutes no valid belief at all.
@YetAnotherInfidel "We are finally at the sole reason that you believe, which is that you FEEL that in a DREAM you experienced the result of living a life out of God's grace" That is one reasons, there have been many others. That severe anxiety disorder you mention, I've never experienced it before, only in that dream, it was terrible, I woke up crying. You can explain it however you want, for me it was real. I just hope you can open your eyes before you experience it for all eternity.
You felt something, once, and thought it was God telling others that they will go to your dream hell because you truly felt that it was real. How about this: What if God rewards those who are able to recognize that he seems completely nonexistant. What if he sends the skeptics and nonbelievers to heaven for being rational and worth being in company with. What if you spend eternity in dream hell because you weren't a skeptic, as hell was just showing you what became of non-skeptics?
@YetAnotherInfidel "as hell was just showing you what became of non-skeptics?" you can believe whatever you want, that wasn't the only message. There was a vision that God is light and the absence of light is darkness, so what I was seen was the absence of God. I was also given a biblical passage with it: Isaiah 60:20. In addition I had many other revelations.
@YetAnotherInfidel I was recently thinking about that. What if this god really DIDN'T want to be worshiped. What if the true test was finally being able to let go of this god and move on. Like how parents want their children to grow up, move out of the house, live their own lives and be happy. Self-reliant and independent adults.
I think that's what a true loving god would want for its creations. For them to rise up and be successful on their own.
You're pulling this information out of your ass. There is no evidence for anything you say other than a dream you had. Would you convict a person for a crime based upon a dream? Would you believe in fairys based upon a dream? Why do you choose different criteria for belief (i.e. a dream as evidence) for hell than for something like the existence of fairys or whether or not to convict someone for a crime?
@eskrod1 "Why do you choose different criteria for belief" Because it wasn't just any dream, it was a powerful life changing experience, and because I received confirmation several times after.
@dejesusluisx Here is a question for you, if a muslim came up to you and told you the same story (that he had a dream) and that Allah was the one true God, would you believe him? Would you convert to Islam? If that doesn't sway you, how can you possibly expect anyone else to be swayed by your own claim?
@mar504 ""Allah was the one true God, would you believe him?"" Of course, Allah is the one true God. There is only one God, one divine consciousness we give many names and dogmas in our desire to understand Him.
@mar504 Of course, they are dividing God's attributes among many, that is due to the lack of understanding of the concept of an immaterial continuum, but even Hindus have a path within their dogmas, that can connect them with the divine and allows them to live in race. All you need to be saved is to be in God's wavelength, not to name Him, that is why He didn't wanted to be named.
@ehandkz ""Ok... but where did god come from?"" Where does energy comes from? Where the quantum vacuum comes from? God created the material universe, so God is not material. As an immaterial entity, He is able to transcend matter, and move freely in and out of our universe.
@dejesusluisx "If you don't think I perfectly understand how the world around us work, try me." and it only took one question... shows how stupid creationists can be
@dejesusluisx Of course I do... you couldn't even answer my first question.
I still celebrate christmas because my family are mainly christian, it just means a time to be happy and to be with your family to me. So thank you and merry christmas to you too.
@ehandkz God is a spirit, an immaterial conscious being. All things in the universe consists of matter or energy, so if God isn't matter, is energy by definition. Energy is the capacity to do work, is eternal, omnipresent, wasn't be created or destroyed, can create matter, was the only thing present before the BB, and the energy required to make the universe must had been powerful. All these match Biblical descriptions of God. God matter creating abilities were defined before energy's
@dejesusluisx IF god wants me to have no doubts why am I atheist then? And why there are more and more atheists around? Religious population is in decline, while non-believers are growing. This means that more and more people don't believe in god. Your god wouldn't allow it, would he? Oh, you'd probably tell me that he's testing us. Sure.
@cecerchio ""why am I atheist then?"" because you haven't look. ""Your god wouldn't allow it, would he?"" God doesn't intervene against human's free will.
Is really sad how little people know about God, despite all the information that is available everywhere.
@cecerchio Well he could always just make another flood... wait boats, Damn! How about locusts... wait pesticides, Damn! I got it! I'll flood the world with ignorance! Haha! That'll show em! And Yay, god said to Abraham, your people will grow to be stupid and gullible. And in his own words; It is done.
@YetAnotherInfidel "you would rejoice at the idea of cancer among those who believe" We love to serve God here, and our mission is to do the best job we can until our time is due to serve in heaven. I see it like a job promotion. If you love your job as a individual contributor but you're offered a promotion as a manager in a year from now, would you now hate the job you used to love? You might be looking forward for that promotion, but in the meantime, you love every minute of your current job.
That doesn't change that fact that you ought to be euphoric for anyone who is going to take the next step up or "be promoted" to asskisser for eternity.
@YetAnotherInfidel God may allow natural evils and suffering in the word to obtain a greater good. The same way the suffering of gazelles killed by lions make the species stronger, the suffering of mankind help us move to a higher consciousness level. A greater good comes for us which makes us better and move us closer to God. God is always there to comfort when that happen, as a father that allow a son to fall so he can learn, is there to give us peace and hope the world will be a better place
But it isn't like a lion and a gazelle, as those that die infidels go to hell. Also, what kind of monster makes a system "testing" individuals, knowing what they will do beforehand? Even if he didn't know, he is still treating us like the very chattle you say we would become if he did intervene. We are nothing more than clay for him to mold, having no real free will, just whatever he dictated before our creation.
@YetAnotherInfidel "what kind of monster makes a system "testing" individuals, knowing what they will do beforehand?" I'm not defending biblical inherrancy, the stories you refer could have been made up.
""he is still treating us like the very chattle you say we would become if he did intervene"" don't have a clue of what you're talking about here.
@YetAnotherInfidel God is a spirit, an immaterial conscious being. All things in the universe consists of matter and/or energy, so if God isn't matter, is energy by definition. Energy is the capacity to do work, is eternal, omnipresent, wasn't created and can't be destroyed, can create matter, was the only thing present before the BB, and the energy required to make the universe must had been powerful. All these match Biblical descriptions of God. Why you say this is impossible? Is very probable
@YetAnotherInfidel Why omnipotence is impossible? Did you knew that all human knowledge, all information, cel phone conversations, TV shows, movies, all that mankind has ever produced is flowing through you body in the form of waves? Did you knew that scientists suggest that our consciousness arise from our brains ability to accumulate more information than animals? The energy waves contain billions of times more information than what our brains can store, so wave energy can be conscious.
Heard of God creating a rock so heavy that it cannot be lifted?
Mmk, I am not a scientist nor have I looked into waves but I can accept that. I can accept that our consciousness comes from brain functions (shot yourself in the foot, brains decompose after death/no heavenly consciousness).
You lost me at energy being conscious. No, brain are conscious because they have the physical capacity to harness these "waves" and makes them sensible, waves don't have that quality inherently.
Wait, since when has a banana and a plantain (spelling?) not been alike? Sure, they taste different, but they look pretty damn similar. They have similar shapes and even a similar texture. They probably considered cousins in the plant world.
If god exists, we're nothing more than his 'pets'. He talks about love and respect, but unless we give him love, he striukes us down. "I'll love you, but only if you love me first" Now thats just childish
@BlueCosmology Because GM foods are not clearly identified through clear labelling, it is impossible to know what sicknesses are related to the consumption of the product.
@BlueCosmology you misunderstand sickness have been connected its impossible to know just how many sicknesses have been linked because of gm food companies ability to get away with it by brain washing children like u
@itssaab I would like an article that is in a peer reviewed journal and has evidence that has been repeated by multiple unbiased scientists. Other than that no, as it is possible to write any article you like with whatever bullshit evidence you like to support whatever you like.
@itssaab "only learning whats peer reviewed is only agreeing with authority that in itself is a fallacy." You realise what peer review means right? Because its main purpose is that it stops authority managing to influence research.
@BlueCosmology not necessarily true it itself has been influenced as one cannot submit there own ideas or theorys without money to do so. if thats what it was meant to do then epic fail
@itssaab Wow! Did you even read the article you sent me? It has absolutely no evidence presented and is entirely an attempt to convince you to believe authority. Constantly reminding you that this man speaking has a degree. There is absolutely nothing in that article other than saying "I have a PhD. This is correct because I say so and I have a PhD. I've had a PhD for a while. Did I mention I have a PhD and I'm correct as I have a PhD?"
@itssaab I know, when you see that people genuinely believe articles like that are convincing arguments it is incredibly sad to see how stupid the general public is.
@itssaab "doctors" The vast majority disagree, and even if they didn't it would just be appeal to authority believing it for that reason, as you've pointed out yourself earlier.
"lawsuits" Very few lawsuits, almost all being denied on grounds of no evidence.
"deaths " What deaths?
"studies" What studies?
You keep saying this crap and I ask you to back it up, and you don't.
Banana Man and Crocoduck Boy. The Batman and Robin of ignorance.
40gabe 2 weeks ago
YES. This is how theists should be dealt with: with a tounge in cheek attitude. We should treat their beliefs as foolishly as they truly are.
mjgamerboy 1 month ago
If god didn't want us to eat cows...why did he made them out of meat?!
This was a joke.
chibraxial 2 months ago
@TheYahushuaWarrior or an internet troll...
KrankyBIAS 2 months ago
@TheYahushuaWarrior I don't worship satan :P now why do you think that?
Shadowblood66 2 months ago
@TheYahushuaWarrior Even if god was real he wouldn't like you.
U mad bro?? :P
Shadowblood66 2 months ago
Making the concept of god sound like a half-ass video game villain. makes me laugh...
rpm297 3 months ago
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It fits in your butt!!!
kjohnsen045 3 months ago
Whenever a creationist states this I always say
"So what did the pineapple do wrong'?
Anzacpaul 3 months ago
If god is an intelligent designer and hates gays, why didn't he make assholes round and dicks and pussies square?
GodsTalkingSnake 3 months ago 2
Plantains a hybrid to.
LouisPlume 4 months ago
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Use your God given intuition: who shows a higher consciousness level? who kills or who respects life?, who steal or who share? who enslave or who frees? who envy or who love? who is selfish or who is selfless? who is materialistic or who is spiritual?. We are due to move to the next consciousness level by rejecting all materialism and selfishness. Those were Jesus teachings, which atheism reject. God will act, and anyone that refuse to move may be expendable. Open your eyes before is too late.
dejesusluisx 4 months ago
@dejesusluisx "Bla bla bla God is an asshole" <--- Your comment
LamaPaj 4 months ago
@LamaPaj Mankind is due for moving to a higher consciousness plane. The same way the suffering of gazelles killed by lions make the species stronger, the suffering of mankind will help us move to the next consciousness level. A greater good comes for the species. The next level is the rejection of greed, materialism and selfishness. Our current capitalist system need to collapse in order to achieve this. If you're not ready spiritually, and doesn't move up, you'll suffer. Seek God.
dejesusluisx 4 months ago
@dejesusluisx Well, some crazy person telling me all this in a comment on youtube sure makes me believe it!
LamaPaj 4 months ago
@LamaPaj God exists, that's the accepted claim by the majority of people, you want to challenge that, bring the evidence, the burden of proof is on YOU. Some narrow minded atheist proposed the wrong notion that atheism doesn't require evidence and many gullible atheists had run to foolishly embrace it. Philosophically the burden of proof is in the argument challenging the establishment. What evidence you have that atheism is true? None, zero, nada. Open your eyes, you're being deceived.
dejesusluisx 4 months ago
@dejesusluisx Well, to begin with I live in a nation where only 23% of the population believe in ANY god. Also, the burden of proof is placed on those who makes claims. You claim that god exists, I never claimed that god does not exist, only that i do not believe that a god does. And even if god does exist hes the meanest and evilest motherfucker imaginable, so why worship him!?
LamaPaj 4 months ago
@LamaPaj ""Well, to begin with I live in a nation where only 23% of the population believe in ANY god."" In your case, then theists need to go prepared to present their argument, that's the way it works and it works both ways whether I like it or not. I have a few arguments you might find interesting.
"if god does exist hes the meanest" your problem isn't with God, is with the man made dogmas people had created in trying to explain God's reality, which people feel but can't really grasp.
dejesusluisx 4 months ago
@dejesusluisx If god allows there to be evil when he can stop it, hes as evil as the wrongdoers.
LamaPaj 4 months ago
@LamaPaj Suffering caused by man is a necessary consequence of free will. Most of the bad things that happen to all of us are due to ours or to another person's free will. Free will is God's greatest gift to mankind and He would not take that away by intervening constantly. God can't be obvious or Faith and free will would be eliminated, we would be God's slaves, which would be contrary to his creation intent. A world where man can't freely choose to harm is not truly free. God made us free.
dejesusluisx 4 months ago
@dejesusluisx So then you argue that god values the free will of evil men higher then the well being of good people? And anyway, if god created us he could have created us without any ill intents and limitless love for all life and we could still have free will without evil. but obviously he didn't.
LamaPaj 4 months ago
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@LamaPaj "you argue that god values the free will of evil men higher then the well being of good people?" exactly. Free will is the reason of our existence, before taking away free will, he will first destroy all mankind, guaranteed. "created us without any ill intents" We evolved from animals, evolution is Gods mechanism for creation, so we still carry our selfish animal instincts, that's what God wants us to reject out of our free will.
dejesusluisx 4 months ago
@dejesusluisx So God was stuck in a paradox, he could give us all free will, but he couldnt create free will with out creating evil as a choice. That shows utter weakness, that he was restricted by logic, he is God almighty for fuck sake, his power is unlimited, and should have been able to do create free will with out evil, what a useless god.
LouisPlume 4 months ago
@LouisPlume ""That shows utter weakness"" Can you create a married bachelor? Can someone know something that do not exist? Can you draw a round parallelogram ? There are things that are logically incoherent and not being possible is in their own nature, by no means they mean God is weak. I'm afraid that example isn't using sound rational thought.
dejesusluisx 4 months ago
@LouisPlume he could create free will w/o evil.But it would lack the free will of being evil, And some believe they have that right (and if we believe in reincarnation too ,those "some"are all of us probably in different degrees,otherwise we wouldnt be here ,) This question/problem you touched however is the top of the icebirg
delagrazia 3 months ago
@delagrazia you make me want to headbutt a wall, we are evil are we, get a grip please, if god exists he left this world a long time ago, because if he is here he fucked us over big time, he created us you say, he created parasites that thrive in our brains, you know. its alright, you live your life praying to something that you want to think is real while we the real people have fun and get LAID.
SuperRetardedPENGUIN 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx In that case the burden of proof is on you in regards to Allah Mithra Zues Krishna etc to prove they dont exist.
You LamaPaj are an atheist about each one of these other religions, so prove they dont exist.... Go on, good luck.
LouisPlume 4 months ago
@LouisPlume There's only one God, one divine consciousness, one conscious energy that created the universe with many names and dogmas created by men over many centuries in our desire to understand his essence. Dogmas might be real or not, but God is real, and to understand that reality you need to be in his wavelength.
dejesusluisx 4 months ago
@dejesusluisx Wavelength? As for the rest of your comment: proof please?
Antoniusan 3 months ago
@Antoniusan God is energy and to be in tune with energy, you need to be in the same wavelength. The same with God, you need to be in His wavelength to be saved. Buddhists call it Nirvana or Enlightenment, Hindus call that Moksha, Islam calls it Taubah and we call it living in Grace. There is only one Divine Consciousness with many names and dogmas, but just one reality. You can be spiritual and be one with God consciousness without religion, but to get somewhere, a map is always helpful.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx and i call it bullshit
SuperRetardedPENGUIN 3 months ago
@SuperRetardedPENGUIN
What evidence you have to say aheism is correct?
At least me have a book, backing scientific arguments, logical arguments, personal manifestations, miracles, vision, etc. What do you have? a theory maybe? a pamphlet? a drawing in a napkin? what?
The truth is you have nothing, no arguments, no claims, no logic, nothing, nada, zero, not even a clue as to why atheism is right.
Irrefutably and conclusively, atheism is the ultimate delusion.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx
Every single argument to prove the existance of God has been flattened. There isn't a single one that has any merit, not now not 1000 years ago.
Atheism is incorrect? Like, lacking belief in God is incorrect? The only assertion made by atheists is that theists have failed to meet their burden of proof.
Giving God qualities that match pre-BB energies and saying he exists is the same as giving him the qualities of an animal we know to be real and saying he exists.
You have a book. :P
YetAnotherInfidel 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel All claims require evidence, mine and yours. The difference is that claims without evidence are faith claims, and I don't mind at all saying I base my claims on faith and therefore they are religious claims. Now if you don't mind being part of a cult and having atheism label as a religion, keep posting and don't get any evidence, Mr. cult member; but if you do,then get the evidence or shut up!!!
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx Well, I'll bet they held you back in second grade. >.>
Atheism isn't a claim, it needs no evidence. My only evidence is that I am thinking it. If I were making the claim that God doesn't exist, that would be different and I would offer evidence, but I am not nor are many of the other atheists you will run into. I simply dismiss the evidence you provide as insufficient or unfounded. In your case, I don't even have to look at evidence as you said yourself you have none.
YetAnotherInfidel 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel Atheists also make claims. They claim theists are deluded, that the Bible is a fairy tale and that God doesn't exist. These claims also required evidence to be proven otherwise they turn into faith claims. Do you like to be part of a cult? If not, then get the evidence or get out. If your atheism isn't based on evidence you're just changing one religion for another.
Is it possible an immaterial consciousness exists? Be honest. Is there a possible world in which it could?
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx Sure I'll grant you that we claim that you are deluded, that the bible is a fairy tale, but not that God doesn't exist. Claiming God doesn't exist would be foolhardy, look up "Russell's Teapot" as a reference.
I can defend The first two (claims some of us DO make).
1. There is no evidence showing that God exists. Despite there being no evidence, you believe, therefore you are deluded.
2. The Bible has magic, ritual, resurrection; Cinderella has magic, fate, fairies. Connection? YES
YetAnotherInfidel 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel "1. There is no evidence showing that God exists. Despite there being no evidence, you believe, therefore you are deluded" I do have evidence of God's existence, if you don't is because you don't want to open your heart and mind.
2. For an all powerful being, to move an atom that would produce the chain reaction needed to cause the resurrection of a body is science at it’s best, done as an exceptional gift for mankind's salvation.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx
Really?
My first point, that you are deluded, stands as you believe despite the lack of evidence. This would generally be ok, as you claim revelation, but you link it to the murderous and jelous, logically impossible God of Christianity, for reasons likely to be no more than random chance working in your favor.
Second, what?? For an all powerful being to allow so much suffering is ok, but bringing back an one person is a miracle?
That isn't science, btw. Not verifiable. Sorry.
YetAnotherInfidel 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel God is a spirit, an immaterial conscious being. All things in the universe consists of matter and/or energy, so if God isn't matter, is energy by definition. Energy is the capacity to do work, is eternal, omnipresent, wasn't created and can't be destroyed, can create matter, was the only thing present before the BB, and the energy required to make the universe must had been powerful. All these match Biblical descriptions of God. Therefore is plausible that God exists.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel God may allow natural evils and suffering in the word to obtain a greater good. The same way the suffering of gazelles killed by lions make the species stronger, the suffering of mankind help us move to a higher consciousness level. A greater good comes for the species which makes us better and move us closer to God. God always there to comfort you when that happen, as a father that allow a son to fall so he can learn, and is there to give us peace and hope.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx
You seem to have forgotten that you are talking about an ALL loving God.
Would your father knowingly allow you to fall down the stairs or break your leg if he loved you? No, and neither would God. God would, if true to his traits, make the world a much better place.
If, as you say, suffering leads to more who believe in it, then why doesn't your God feed the starving, quell the warring, and stop the suffering, afterwards placing a signature on the moon saying "I did this"?
...
YetAnotherInfidel 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel "Would your father knowingly allow you to fall down the stairs or break your leg if he loved you?" I'm a father and I allowed my kids to fall while riding a bike so they could learn or for them to swallow some water while learning to swim. There are things you can only learn after suffering a painful learning process.
God can't be obvious or we would lose our free will.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx
No, he can abosolutely be obvious. I'm sorry if allowing your kinds to fall or slurp some water is a valid analogy to allowing millions to starve and die without any such chance to learn. He can and should be painstakingly obvious, as otherwise he risks sending million, no, billions to suffer hellfire. Without proof, he is just as valid as Tinker Bell; fell him in your heart, sure, but what if you are feeling Krishna? Zues? Mithra?
I hope your children grow to be more open-minded.
YetAnotherInfidel 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel It is a necessary consequence of free will. Most of the bad things that happen to all of us are due to ours or to another person's free will. Free will is God's greatest gift to mankind and He would not take that away by intervening constantly. God can't be obvious or Faith and free will would be eliminated, we would be God's slaves, which would be contrary to his creation intent. A world where man can't freely choose to harm is not truly free. God want us to be good freely.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel After all the dust settles, we have only two choices. Either the universe brought itself into existence, or something outside the universe, an external cause brought it into existence. The problem is how something could brought itself into existence? Is not possible, therefore the cause must be external. The only thing present was energy. The God of the Bible is described with the same attributes of energy before energy was described. God existence is the best explanation.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx...Or the universe is eternally oscillating, energy being the primal component of this singularity. Perhaps there are multiple universes, or many dimensions, or many of bodys so big we can't name it.
In any case, would you say that any old answer is better than none at all? What you are espousing is an argument from ignorance, an, "I don't know, therefore I know" argument.
I am so tired of theists putting themselves on a pedestal, saying that suffering exists for them to learn form.
YetAnotherInfidel 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel Multiple universes is a theory postulated by many physicists. Can you think of a possible universe in which God might exist? If you think God is a possibility, then God exist. The logical deduction comes from the fact that God is an all powerful being, so if God can exist in a possible world, then He would know all about the other worlds and since He has the power, He will move to exists in those too. So if God can exist in a possible world, then God must exist in every world
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx
I am going to sleep, if you have more questions PM me. I can answer many a question with great detail.
In any case, stay rational and avoid believing in something when no evidence exists.
YetAnotherInfidel 3 months ago
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@YetAnotherInfidel ""avoid believing in something when no evidence exists."" There's plenty of scientific evidence that favors overwhelmingly the existence of a force directing the universe than the universe coming into existence out of randomness. The Penrose calculations, Hoyle calculations, the string theory landscape model, the BB model and the definition of energy all points towards a conscious force rather than pure chance. If you're unfamiliar with them, I could explain. God is real.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@Antoniusan God is a spirit, an immaterial conscious being. All things in the universe consists of matter and/or energy, so if God isn't matter, is energy by definition. Energy is the capacity to do work, is eternal, omnipresent, wasn't created and can't be destroyed, can create matter, was the only thing present before the BB, and the energy required to make the universe must had been powerful. All these match Biblical descriptions of God. Therefore is plausible that God exists.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@Antoniusan The definition of God is in the Bible, and I didn't made up the definition of energy either. And is too much of a coincidence that the only thing in the universe capable of making matter was defined scientifically the same way God is defined biblically. I'm just putting 2+2 together. When you consider that the ancient goat herders didn't have a clue of what they were talking about, the coincidence is awesome.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx
Look, I don't have to have any sort of knowledge of advanced physics or cosmology to understand that God is an impossibility. Omnipotence is impossible, your specific God's actions are deplorable, and being everywhere and being undetected is implausible.
Also, on the topic of many universes:
"if God can exist in a possible world, then God must exist in every world"
wrong, for two reasons:
I think I will put them on another comment, replying to this one.
YetAnotherInfidel 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel
1) God is not possible in any other world. He is a logically contradictive and impossible being. I could say that because he doesn't exist in this world, as shown by the lack of evidence and the problem of evil, he cannot exist in any world and therefore doesn't in this one. If God could exist then he would and would do do x y and z, under the problem of evil.
2) God is the ultimate power concieveable. What if a power greater than his, one we cannot concieve of, exists?
YetAnotherInfidel 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel "He is a logically contradictive and impossible being" prove it, where is your evidence?
"I could say that because he doesn't exist in this world" This statement doesn't follow the previous one, is a non-sequitur.
There is no problem of evil, just a lack of understanding of what evil is.
Make your case so you can see how effortlessly I destroy it. God is 100% logical. All things need to be the way they are and if you were God would act exactly the same way He does.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
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YetAnotherInfidel 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx
The two points were separate, one adressing his flaws, adressed through the problem of evil, and the second statement adressing the multiverse idea. The second, I said, is logically superior due to the mere possibility of there being a power greater than God.
The problem of evil, or, as many define it, suffering, IS valid. It stands as a blockade in theism to date.
I have no case to make, I am not affirming anything, other than the fact that your tri omni God cannot exist.
YetAnotherInfidel 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel "The problem of evil, or, as many define it, suffering, IS valid. It stands as a blockade in theism to date." Is blockade only in your mind. If you understand that the reason we exists is our free will, you will understand why evil must exist. Present a specific example and you'll see how easy it falls down like a house of cards.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel 2. If a greater power exists, that is God.
Simple.
God is 100% logic.
There is no logical contradiction you can attribute to God because God is real, and no one can disprove reality with logic.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx
2. Wow, I agree, but looking back I have to say that it really doesn't matter. You cannot think something into existance, whether or not logic dictates it, but in any case logic doesn't. I can agree that God may very well be real, I have always held to that possibility, but the Christian God is impossible. Like I have said, never has there been a successful agrument for God.
Tell me why the argument of evil hold no water, if you would?
YetAnotherInfidel 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel Suffering caused by man is a necessary consequence of free will. Most of the bad things that happen to all of us are due to ours or to another person's free will. Free will is God's greatest gift to mankind and He would not take that away by intervening constantly. God can't be obvious or Faith and free will would be eliminated, we would be God's slaves, which would be contrary to his creation intent. A world where man can't freely choose to harm is not truly free.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx
Agreed, suffering is a consequence of free will. Or it would be, if your God hadn't created us with the foreknowledge of who we are. He could have easily only allowed those that would freely make good choices and no bad live, easy for an omnipotent being. Yes, he must be obvious. If he isn't obvious, then the problem of Hell is valid instead. By the way, I am just going to pretend that you are providing evidence for all of your claims...
YetAnotherInfidel 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel "Or it would be, if your God hadn't created us with the foreknowledge of who we are" you need to understand the concept of foreknowledge. It can be compared to a forecast. Our current weather forecast can be pretty accurate, now imagine if we knew how every single atom can behave, in theory, we can have weather forecasts centuries in advance. But forecast have limitations, they depict what can be, not what is. An unmake decision doesn't exist, so God can't actually know it.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx The problem of hell occurs when God sends those that aren't believers to a place of eternal suffering solely on the premise that they didn't have faith in the correct God. Without God being obvious, he risks sending billions to hell, and no omnibenevolent being would allow any such thing to occur.
YetAnotherInfidel 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel "when God sends those that aren't believers to a place of eternal suffering solely on the premise that they didn't have faith in the correct God" God doesn't send anyone to hell, hell is not a place, is the way you consciousness feel when not with God. Hell is the eternal darkness, the nothingness, is a default. God is light and the absence of light is darkness, Hell is the absence of God. You decide to go there by rejecting God.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel People just take bad decisions that make then suffer. If you are a parent you know that you have to make accountable your kids for their actions. If God would intervene on a daily basis, we would be His slaves; there would be no free will. God gave us the freedom to follow his advice or not. If you follow his advise, you will find happiness, if not it was your choice. True believers have also problems because of the free will of others.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx
God makes these decisions beforehand when he arbitrarily created us. Who said I wanted to be created? I didn't have free will then. If God intervened on a daily basis the world would be devoid of rape, murder, starvation; at the bare minimum he could eliminate natural evils. These natural evils existance has no effect on our free will, and thus should and must be eliminated.
His advice also consists of who to murder and when, who to punish and how, but you ignore that, huh?
YetAnotherInfidel 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel "If God intervened on a daily basis the world would be devoid of rape, murder, starvation" If that were the case, there would be no free will and no purpose for us to exist, God would take our consciousness away. "These natural evils existance has no effect on our free will, and thus should and must be eliminated" As I said, a greater good comes for the species. In Haiti there has been a resurgence of faith. Vodoo priests had rejected that faith and become Christians.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx
Faith in NEVER a quiality to be proud of. It is ignorance incarnate. Haiti's resurgence, if the world was predominately Muslim, would likely have been Muslim. We wouldn't lose consciousness to this God is he simply hadn't messed it all up in the first place, making only those that would freely choose to do the right thing. God is responcible for everything, as he created all the rules and knows what would happen beforehand.
YetAnotherInfidel 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel "would likely have been Muslim" so? what's wrong with being Muslim?
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx
Your religion has Muslims going to hell, just like everyone else. Jesus is the only way to heaven, it's in your bible bro.
YetAnotherInfidel 3 months ago
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@YetAnotherInfidel ""Your religion has Muslims going to hell, just like everyone else. Jesus is the only way to heaven, it's in your bible"" Jesus was a message, the logos, the incarnated verb. A message is to be acted upon, not to be hang on a wall to be admired. Jesus is a way of obtaining the grace, a role model to be followed, it's living in grace that saves us, not just a belief. Anyone living in grace can be saved.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel God didn't cause directly the natural evils, they are the product or natural laws in action. God have the power to stop them, and I'm positive God had stopped most, but God would allow some to occur because the benefits for mankind would outweigh the suffering they might cause.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx
You still haven't demonstrated why natural evils are a necessarily true factor in life. I though you advocated God staying out of our lives, but you go and say that he stops some and allows some to kill many? Adress those that will goto hell as well, as that is infinitely more immoral than allowing a few earthly deaths.
YetAnotherInfidel 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel "why natural evils are a necessarily true factor in life" I said, to obtain a greater good.
I also said people go to hell by their own choosing
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel I'm really tired, is almost 1:00 a.m. here, so we'll continue tomorrow.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel God talk to people every day and every time through their consciousness but if we don’t live in grace and we choose not listen, then, we're not guided by the Holy Spirit and we suffer. Also suffering is allowed when a greater good comes out of it. A disease might be a suffering, but if salvation, which is a greater good, will result out of it, God will allow it.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx You just said God had to be subtle. Really? Talking on a personal level? And why can't those that have never heard of God feel this subconsciously? Are they sent to hell for being infidels? If you truly believed that heaven existed you would rejoice at the idea of cancer among those who believe, but you almost certainly don't. Those that die without "Him in thier hearts" end up in hell, where is the salvation there?
YetAnotherInfidel 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel "And why can't those that have never heard of God feel this subconsciously?" They do, that's why there are thousands of Gods and religions. "Are they sent to hell for being infidels?" As I said, God doesn't send anyone to Hell, people send themselves. Man knows in his heart what is good or bad. That is what guide us and that will be the ruler for someone that haven't heard the word.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx
You are now qualified to be a grade A immoral prick. Your unproven, unproveable God must neccesarily be believed in to be able to go and kiss his ass FOREVER? That is infinitely immoral. You go on to say that people send themselves to Hell? What??? No, God made the rules and could choose to send no one to hell but he does. Hell is not just because you are punished for a finite crime with an infinite punishment, on top of the fact that the crime could be rape OR a simple lie.
YetAnotherInfidel 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx
Your religion has Muslims going to hell, just like everyone else. Jesus is the only way to heaven, it's in your bible bro.
Seriously, no one can choose to send themselves to hell. Watch AE episode 672, caller denise. Hope fully this can clear up the hell problem.
If you get anything from our exchange, look at this link.
YetAnotherInfidel 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel Any person, of any religion, can have God’s grace. Religious dogmas don't determine your Faith in God. You may have the craziest beliefs but if you're righteous, live under God’s laws and conduct your life putting God first always, you can be saved. He is a personal God. God was before religions, before the Bible, before man, and before time. Live under God’s love in His wavelength and you can be saved. Dogmas were created by man trying to understand God. Religion is a tool.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel "Seriously, no one can choose to send themselves to hell. Watch AE episode 672" these is nothing I can learn from someone that doesn't know God intimately. This is like me trying to talk to you about your significant other from some article I read in a magazine. I know God, personally and intimately, and what I'm telling you is what He has shown me. You either are in God's wavelength or not, if you are, you go with Him, if not, you go to the eternal darkness, that's all.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx
Looks like we are at an impasse, one which prevents our discussion from progressing.
You are content with the belief that God, which has no evidence, and more specifically, Jesus, who is even less likely, are the key to life. You go further and likely believe in the literal hell, where the majority of the world will go. Ultimately, your faith in your God is a testimony that can be given by anyone, at any time, with exactly your certainty.
This is why I am a rationalist.
YetAnotherInfidel 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel Hell as is often described, doesn't exists. Hell is the absence of God. God don't send anyone to hell, people send themselves by not being in God's wavelength. When you die, your soul, which is eternal energy, has to go somewhere. If your soul energy is in the same wavelength (by living in grace) is pulled (same as a magnet) to God. If you are not in sync, your are not pull and wander in the darkness for ever.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx
Ok, so you basically admit to making this shit up as you go along. You don't follow what the Bible says, you make up stuff about your God (wavelinks) that is simply a plug to keep your dam o' religion from leaking. You don't even know what hell is and even if it was like you say (no evidence, once again) that is still crap. Any kind of eternal life, after about a billion years, would be the worst thing to ever live through. It is worse than hell; at least you feel something there.
YetAnotherInfidel 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel Our Soul, when we die, go to God or not; God is light. You end up either in the light or in the darkness. If you're in God's same wavelength, you're attracted to the light, if not, you remain in the dark. The problem is you're fully conscious while you're in the dark, and because of that, the anxiety feels like fire. Hell is the eternal darkness. This was revealed to me in a dream. I wasn't a believer then, I am now. I visited the place. I've never been in such anxiety.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx
We are finally at the sole reason that you believe, which is that you FEEL that in a DREAM you experienced the result of living a life out of God's grace.
The ironic thing is that, by Googling "severe anxiety disorder", the first result is "Anxiety is a Living Hell". Stress and a number of factors could have caused this dream, but you would rather believe in a God.
I am sorry, but I am inclined to take nothing on faith as belief without evidence constitutes no valid belief at all.
YetAnotherInfidel 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel "We are finally at the sole reason that you believe, which is that you FEEL that in a DREAM you experienced the result of living a life out of God's grace" That is one reasons, there have been many others. That severe anxiety disorder you mention, I've never experienced it before, only in that dream, it was terrible, I woke up crying. You can explain it however you want, for me it was real. I just hope you can open your eyes before you experience it for all eternity.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx
You felt something, once, and thought it was God telling others that they will go to your dream hell because you truly felt that it was real. How about this: What if God rewards those who are able to recognize that he seems completely nonexistant. What if he sends the skeptics and nonbelievers to heaven for being rational and worth being in company with. What if you spend eternity in dream hell because you weren't a skeptic, as hell was just showing you what became of non-skeptics?
YetAnotherInfidel 3 months ago
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@YetAnotherInfidel "as hell was just showing you what became of non-skeptics?" you can believe whatever you want, that wasn't the only message. There was a vision that God is light and the absence of light is darkness, so what I was seen was the absence of God. I was also given a biblical passage with it: Isaiah 60:20. In addition I had many other revelations.
Open your eyes, this is God's message to you.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel I was recently thinking about that. What if this god really DIDN'T want to be worshiped. What if the true test was finally being able to let go of this god and move on. Like how parents want their children to grow up, move out of the house, live their own lives and be happy. Self-reliant and independent adults.
I think that's what a true loving god would want for its creations. For them to rise up and be successful on their own.
billyboyjennings 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx
You're pulling this information out of your ass. There is no evidence for anything you say other than a dream you had. Would you convict a person for a crime based upon a dream? Would you believe in fairys based upon a dream? Why do you choose different criteria for belief (i.e. a dream as evidence) for hell than for something like the existence of fairys or whether or not to convict someone for a crime?
eskrod1 1 month ago
@eskrod1 "Why do you choose different criteria for belief" Because it wasn't just any dream, it was a powerful life changing experience, and because I received confirmation several times after.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx Here is a question for you, if a muslim came up to you and told you the same story (that he had a dream) and that Allah was the one true God, would you believe him? Would you convert to Islam? If that doesn't sway you, how can you possibly expect anyone else to be swayed by your own claim?
mar504 1 month ago
@mar504 ""Allah was the one true God, would you believe him?"" Of course, Allah is the one true God. There is only one God, one divine consciousness we give many names and dogmas in our desire to understand Him.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx And what about the Hindu? Do the polytheists just have it wrong?
mar504 1 month ago
@mar504 Of course, they are dividing God's attributes among many, that is due to the lack of understanding of the concept of an immaterial continuum, but even Hindus have a path within their dogmas, that can connect them with the divine and allows them to live in race. All you need to be saved is to be in God's wavelength, not to name Him, that is why He didn't wanted to be named.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx Belief in god in general is due to the lack of understanding of the way the world works.
ehandkz 1 month ago
@ehandkz If you don't think I perfectly understand how the world around us work, try me.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx Tell me where god came from.
ehandkz 1 month ago
@ehandkz Energy can't be created or destroyed, therefore is eternal, God is energy, so God is eternal.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx Ok... but where did god come from?
ehandkz 1 month ago
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@ehandkz ""Ok... but where did god come from?"" Where does energy comes from? Where the quantum vacuum comes from? God created the material universe, so God is not material. As an immaterial entity, He is able to transcend matter, and move freely in and out of our universe.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
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@dejesusluisx "If you don't think I perfectly understand how the world around us work, try me." and it only took one question... shows how stupid creationists can be
MrJohnnyg17 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx Well that was easy...
ehandkz 1 month ago
@ehandkz Do you still have doubts??
It would be very beautiful for you to celebrate this year the true meaning of Christmas with the re-born of Christ in your heart.
God loves you, and wants you to have no doubts. God Bless you and Merry Christmas.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx Of course I do... you couldn't even answer my first question.
I still celebrate christmas because my family are mainly christian, it just means a time to be happy and to be with your family to me. So thank you and merry christmas to you too.
ehandkz 1 month ago
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@ehandkz God is a spirit, an immaterial conscious being. All things in the universe consists of matter or energy, so if God isn't matter, is energy by definition. Energy is the capacity to do work, is eternal, omnipresent, wasn't be created or destroyed, can create matter, was the only thing present before the BB, and the energy required to make the universe must had been powerful. All these match Biblical descriptions of God. God matter creating abilities were defined before energy's
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@dejesusluisx IF god wants me to have no doubts why am I atheist then? And why there are more and more atheists around? Religious population is in decline, while non-believers are growing. This means that more and more people don't believe in god. Your god wouldn't allow it, would he? Oh, you'd probably tell me that he's testing us. Sure.
cecerchio 1 month ago
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@cecerchio ""why am I atheist then?"" because you haven't look. ""Your god wouldn't allow it, would he?"" God doesn't intervene against human's free will.
Is really sad how little people know about God, despite all the information that is available everywhere.
dejesusluisx 1 month ago
@cecerchio Well he could always just make another flood... wait boats, Damn! How about locusts... wait pesticides, Damn! I got it! I'll flood the world with ignorance! Haha! That'll show em! And Yay, god said to Abraham, your people will grow to be stupid and gullible. And in his own words; It is done.
Thisismyfirstopinion 3 weeks ago
@Thisismyfirstopinion He could always give all the girls huge breasts and A Religion that accepts scientific reality. THAT'd convert a few people:D
MajickDemoniack 1 week ago
@MajickDemoniack hmm perhaps
Thisismyfirstopinion 1 week ago
@Thisismyfirstopinion Lol I'd convert to that Religion XD
MajickDemoniack 1 week ago
@YetAnotherInfidel "you would rejoice at the idea of cancer among those who believe" We love to serve God here, and our mission is to do the best job we can until our time is due to serve in heaven. I see it like a job promotion. If you love your job as a individual contributor but you're offered a promotion as a manager in a year from now, would you now hate the job you used to love? You might be looking forward for that promotion, but in the meantime, you love every minute of your current job.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx
That doesn't change that fact that you ought to be euphoric for anyone who is going to take the next step up or "be promoted" to asskisser for eternity.
YetAnotherInfidel 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel God may allow natural evils and suffering in the word to obtain a greater good. The same way the suffering of gazelles killed by lions make the species stronger, the suffering of mankind help us move to a higher consciousness level. A greater good comes for us which makes us better and move us closer to God. God is always there to comfort when that happen, as a father that allow a son to fall so he can learn, is there to give us peace and hope the world will be a better place
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx
But it isn't like a lion and a gazelle, as those that die infidels go to hell. Also, what kind of monster makes a system "testing" individuals, knowing what they will do beforehand? Even if he didn't know, he is still treating us like the very chattle you say we would become if he did intervene. We are nothing more than clay for him to mold, having no real free will, just whatever he dictated before our creation.
YetAnotherInfidel 3 months ago
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@YetAnotherInfidel "what kind of monster makes a system "testing" individuals, knowing what they will do beforehand?" I'm not defending biblical inherrancy, the stories you refer could have been made up.
""he is still treating us like the very chattle you say we would become if he did intervene"" don't have a clue of what you're talking about here.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel God is a spirit, an immaterial conscious being. All things in the universe consists of matter and/or energy, so if God isn't matter, is energy by definition. Energy is the capacity to do work, is eternal, omnipresent, wasn't created and can't be destroyed, can create matter, was the only thing present before the BB, and the energy required to make the universe must had been powerful. All these match Biblical descriptions of God. Why you say this is impossible? Is very probable
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel Why omnipotence is impossible? Did you knew that all human knowledge, all information, cel phone conversations, TV shows, movies, all that mankind has ever produced is flowing through you body in the form of waves? Did you knew that scientists suggest that our consciousness arise from our brains ability to accumulate more information than animals? The energy waves contain billions of times more information than what our brains can store, so wave energy can be conscious.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
@dejesusluisx
Heard of God creating a rock so heavy that it cannot be lifted?
Mmk, I am not a scientist nor have I looked into waves but I can accept that. I can accept that our consciousness comes from brain functions (shot yourself in the foot, brains decompose after death/no heavenly consciousness).
You lost me at energy being conscious. No, brain are conscious because they have the physical capacity to harness these "waves" and makes them sensible, waves don't have that quality inherently.
YetAnotherInfidel 3 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel "waves don't have that quality inherently" you don't know that.
dejesusluisx 3 months ago
cmon matt is that all u could come up with a coconut what about a watermelon lol
johnnybloom100 4 months ago
santaclaus melons, who the hell made those? elves?
kamilianawow 4 months ago
God is apparently a designer, and he couldn't design something better than a banana with his so superior intelligence.
antoshahorosha 4 months ago
As an extension of this (incorrect) argument, God created hemlock, and therefore wants you to die painfully.
joshtube9 4 months ago
the banana is proof of evolution...
millionsmillions 4 months ago
It's obvious that Satan made the coconut lol
ryankc83 4 months ago 4
Wait, since when has a banana and a plantain (spelling?) not been alike? Sure, they taste different, but they look pretty damn similar. They have similar shapes and even a similar texture. They probably considered cousins in the plant world.
LordMaggoteer 4 months ago
@LordMaggoteer A plantain is pretty much inedible if not cooked and has huge hard seeds in it.
LamaPaj 4 months ago
@LamaPaj If you're hungry enough, you'll eat anything.
LordMaggoteer 4 months ago
@LordMaggoteer While that is correct I dont understand how it is relevant. :)
LamaPaj 4 months ago
@LamaPaj Because they're talking about bananas in this video XD
LordMaggoteer 4 months ago
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@LordMaggoteer Well, you said "If you're hungry enough, you'll eat anything."
Which i do not find particularly relevant. Just because i would eat a raw plantain when hungry doesnt mean its the same thing as a banana.
LamaPaj 4 months ago
The atheist's nightmare...Turritopsis nutricula. refute that shitfucks. lol.
henf5671 5 months ago
The coconut, religions worst nightmare.
stvnblmr1 5 months ago
@stvnblmr1 Don't forget pineapples and durian.
squreshi10 4 months ago
Why can't you atheists understand that God needs money?
tweekyseagull 5 months ago
If god exists, we're nothing more than his 'pets'. He talks about love and respect, but unless we give him love, he striukes us down. "I'll love you, but only if you love me first" Now thats just childish
DemonLDR 5 months ago
pineapples are proof god wants me to shove it up my ass for sexual pleasure
teedonster2 5 months ago
So are Pinapples made by Satan?
ih8makinusernames 5 months ago
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jsamari 6 months ago
are you guys still teasing the animals? :)
anthonydanielgann1 6 months ago
i think i have figured out how God and Jesus are the same person bit different....
God is a hermaphrodite and mated with himself to create Jesus.... so Jesus is God but is also a different person....
Na the Bible is just full of shit
jimipanther 6 months ago
the genetically modified food is poison these clowns are more brainwashed then i thought
natural organic food is worth more for a reason think about it
itssaab 6 months ago
@itssaab And what is that reason oh mighty knowledgeable one?
BlueCosmology 6 months ago
@BlueCosmology genetically modfied food kills the body slowly
organic food is healthy as it has very few if no pesticides
just watch the growing demand and price for organic today
itssaab 6 months ago
@itssaab "genetically modfied food kills the body slowly"
Does it now.
BlueCosmology 6 months ago
@BlueCosmology Because GM foods are not clearly identified through clear labelling, it is impossible to know what sicknesses are related to the consumption of the product.
itssaab 6 months ago
@itssaab Or whether in fact any are
mehico33 6 months ago
@itssaab So you can't connect any sicknesses to GM foods, which means there must be sicknesses connected to GM foods?
I see the reasoning there, good work detective Holmes.
BlueCosmology 6 months ago
@BlueCosmology you misunderstand sickness have been connected its impossible to know just how many sicknesses have been linked because of gm food companies ability to get away with it by brain washing children like u
itssaab 6 months ago
@itssaab And what sicknesses are these? And why haven't you been brain washed? Has the great dark one shielded your mind?
BlueCosmology 6 months ago
@BlueCosmology would you like an artilce ill be happy to send u one if you intend on reading it
because i dont manipulate every position to support my belief system unlike these clown with thousands of views
itssaab 6 months ago
@itssaab I would like an article that is in a peer reviewed journal and has evidence that has been repeated by multiple unbiased scientists. Other than that no, as it is possible to write any article you like with whatever bullshit evidence you like to support whatever you like.
BlueCosmology 6 months ago
@BlueCosmology only learning whats peer reviewed is only agreeing with authority that in itself is a fallacy.
but there are some articles about it no matter how much influence there companies put into getting passed the fda.
itssaab 6 months ago
@itssaab "only learning whats peer reviewed is only agreeing with authority that in itself is a fallacy." You realise what peer review means right? Because its main purpose is that it stops authority managing to influence research.
BlueCosmology 6 months ago
@BlueCosmology not necessarily true it itself has been influenced as one cannot submit there own ideas or theorys without money to do so. if thats what it was meant to do then epic fail
itssaab 6 months ago
@itssaab Wow! Did you even read the article you sent me? It has absolutely no evidence presented and is entirely an attempt to convince you to believe authority. Constantly reminding you that this man speaking has a degree. There is absolutely nothing in that article other than saying "I have a PhD. This is correct because I say so and I have a PhD. I've had a PhD for a while. Did I mention I have a PhD and I'm correct as I have a PhD?"
BlueCosmology 6 months ago
@BlueCosmology are you kidding me this is truly a sad moment very sad
itssaab 6 months ago
@itssaab I know, when you see that people genuinely believe articles like that are convincing arguments it is incredibly sad to see how stupid the general public is.
BlueCosmology 6 months ago
@BlueCosmology if you honestly believe that gms are healthy than it truly is sad
itssaab 6 months ago
@itssaab No reasonable amount of evidence has been shown against it.
BlueCosmology 6 months ago
@BlueCosmology studies,doctors, lawsuits, deaths all speak for themselves do those not count?
itssaab 6 months ago
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@itssaab "doctors" The vast majority disagree, and even if they didn't it would just be appeal to authority believing it for that reason, as you've pointed out yourself earlier.
"lawsuits" Very few lawsuits, almost all being denied on grounds of no evidence.
"deaths " What deaths?
"studies" What studies?
You keep saying this crap and I ask you to back it up, and you don't.
BlueCosmology 6 months ago