Is there a better place to pray than over our political leaders? If not a Christian leader who would have been a better choice to lead our nation in prayer? We Christians do have a message to share. And our leaders so need to be reminded of that message.
Dan: thanks for posting this. It amazes me that many well-meaning Christians I've met have still never heard of Donald Miller. I mentioned that Miller is possibly the most influential Christian author from the past decade over supper with a friend who said he had never heard of him. Later I learned that my friend's son gave him a copy of Blue Like Jazz which he is waiting to read. I guess Miller's written works overshadow his own self. What an amazing concept.
Personally...I think you all should be grateful that there is a prayer before the proceedings. You have no idea how previlaged to even have a government that wants to pray. And here you are bickering if Don should endorse or now. Be thankful you leaders praying and allowing people to pray for God's hand. Nick - South Africa
Danahanson1, i agree with what you are saying. I didn't see the DNC prayer until just a few seconds ago. I didn't know exactly who Don Miller was back when the DNC happened. I had just finished reading "Blue like Jazz", which I enjoyed very much and decided to search his name on Youtube only to find that he had endorsed a political party. I suppose that he is extremely influential, thus an endorsement needs not to be made. This endorsement is sad. (I am not Republican)
dan i think your wrong, I think a man of God like Donald Miller that can stand up for his beliefs expecially at the DNC creates a better name for Christians, that we're not all right wing nuts. If you listen to what Don Miller prayed for, all of those things are Biblical and all of those things are generally as a whole supported by the Democratic party, not the GOP. I don't know if ur a Dem or Repub, but I think what Miller did here was bold and awesome!
"Miller shouldn't be endorsing a Party" without saying "He shouldn't be THIS Party" is like saying "You should not Murder/Lie/Steal" without saying "You should not Murder/Lie/Steal BECAUSE it offends God, you Disobeyed God" This kind of Christian gutlessness is why America is awaiting the Wrath of God for our lack of Repentance for Love of Money/Homosexuality/Rape/Adultery. HEY: Give everyone some cake, then as you eat it, you get SICK (Soul's Sick) on it for being ALL ICING and no Cake.
you are so right on. i am so saddened that don miller prayed at this. it's one thing if one has a political career and professes to be a Christian, but don has written his books as TO THE PEOPLE not to a party--it's about Jesus first of all, so I am saddened that he would show an endorsement to a party. he's going to confuse a lot of people about Christ.
your totally wrong, this act shows the Democrats that Christians aren't all Republicans. Everyone always assumes that Christians are narrow minded right wing nuts. Millers stand here gives a witness that we are NOT all right wing nuts.
well that is because you are a smart thinking individual. i think we as human beings get very legalistic about stuff (we love doing stuff to appease our guilt that's why following Jesus is such a challenge--balancing freedom from law yet being holy and set apart) and as a result i imagined people watching don do this prayer and then rushing out and thinking wow obama must be sent straight from God--whereas the reality is NO politican of ANY party would be such.
Being in ministry does not automatically mean being unable to express an opinion. He is not endorsing Obama by being at the DNC. He did not push his opinion on anyone, but I definitely believe he's at least entitled to it regardless of whether I agree with it or not. For Heaven's sake, pastors express political opinions from the pulpit all the time and that's more offensive than praying at a political function! Politics and religion should remain separate is what he'd probably say!
The only problem I'd have with that is if he'd endorsing Obama in the name of God. If he's endorsing Obama as just another American, I'm fine with that, but I do disagree with any person in the ministry claiming that God agrees with his/her candidate. I believe that God is neither Democrat nor Republican.
I don't think Don is claiming that God has endorsed Don's endorsement of Obama. But I suspect that Don will loose some degree of influence with some people because of his endorsement. That may be unfortunate, but probably a reality, and Don's a smart enough guy, he probably counted that cost when he took the Obama plunge.
I'm sure he took that into consideration as well. It's sad that you apparently have to be a Republican in order to be a Christian... I wonder if anyone has told God that, I'm sure He'd be surprised.
I agree with u man, I'm sick of it. I used to be full fledged GOP until I realized that most of the crap that they stand for is not Christian in nature anyway. The GOP plays the abortion card to win Christian votes, I have fallen prey to it as well.
This is why I'm glad to NOT be a public figure. I'm glad I can have personal opinions on things and take part in activities without having them being dissected and critiqued as inappropriate by people who've not talked with me to know my actual opinions on the topics.
I think its pretty obvious your argument is not rooted in fact but is rooted in opinion. The fact is, Don didn't do anything but pray. it's a matter of where he prayed obviously. If anything his prayer reached more would be Christians and it doesn't matter where he did it.
Is this compromised in any way by having too strong of a public witness towards a specific party, in particular at the most partisan event? Is 'perception reality?' Miller is not being "left" and McPherson is not being "right" -quite the contrary, they seem connectors. Could they be an even greater influence of blessing in the lives of people who think very differently than they do, and lead others to grow to be such an influence, without the emphasis, real or perceived, of partisan politics?
After all, party officials and candidates will hear their voices, even if they decline invitations to appear at such partisan venues. Their prominence and influence are the very reason they were invited to appear at the respective conventions in the first place. If they were only there to get more votes for the party, then all these comments have been compromised, from a mission perspective.
The fact/ opinion dichotomy doesn't exist in any of this. It is all opinion by everyone.
Wow!for the record miller claims neither left or right.and Whats so wrong with a man praying?He didnt stand and endorse Obama,he prayed to God.Whats wrong with that?If Obama is elected president,our nations needs Christ following people like miller to Pray with him and for him,befriend him.THATS WHAT JESUS WOULD DO!He Certainly wouldnt bash him,or disown him.Thank God for people like Miller,who are breaking the steryotype of religious right and bringing God to"Jews and Gentiles"Left and Right".
I interchanged "pastor" and "missionary leader" in the video, which is confusing, and, yes, I do realize he is not a pastor of a congregation, as you can see in my subsequent comments. As I have also commented, I see a pastor of a church making such an appearance as even less helpful. So, yes, even though I greatly admire Mlles McPherson and thought his prayer was eloquent at the RNC, as well, I would also disagree with his decision to participate in such a way.
There are several who have commented on this video who may lean towards supporting the Democratic party and/ or Senator Obama. When they say this is "just a prayer" did they honestly say the identical thing to people who disagreed with Christian influencers like James Dobson or Max Lucado, when they made appearances to pray at Republican partisan events in highly visible public settings?
As far as the 'at least he had a chance to speak to all types of people in such an important and impactful setting' idea, I think there is missing my whole meaning on the primary role of a missionary leader. It is not about getting the biggest stage we can, or a one shot deal to get a prayer into a national convention. It is about loving our neighbor, no matter who he/she is, with compassion, graciousness, and respect, and sharing the good news of Jesus with those who are receptive.
Missionaries are way more about earning a hearing over time by living consistent, non-judgmental lives, where we are genuinely interested in the story of others and connecting with them- always authentic; never taking ourselves too seriously. "Do you want to be right or do you want to be helpful?" is the self-examining question. We are inviting others into a way of life where Jesus is Lord and Master Teacher, and making the case for following Jesus as the compelling view of reality.
As you can see, this is way more long term than short term. It is about working publicly more and more with other Christians who come from different "tribes," who see many things from very different perspectives, but who authentically exhibit practical unity together, in respect and deference- because we focus on what we hold in common: Jesus as Lord.
I agree at parts. But i vote "D" regardless of character(i think all politicians are with out that). Still yet the issues lead me that way, my morality leads me that way. I'm a christian leader, and think im more likely to end war, poverty, unequal rights, the unjust health care system (which prevents many people i know from being able to minister in poor communities). Even abortion, right wing uses it for votes but i realized they dont care.So i endorse leftwingers in hopes of changing hearts.
Christian leaders, like all Christians, all called to be active in the public square, to be a blessing to their neighbor. The challenge is when a leader uses his/her position or recognition, publicly, to gain a hearing for a specific political party or candidate. This is true whether it is real support or public perception.
Being a member of a political party, donating, working behind the scenes as a campaign volunteer and such, are not highly visible appearances for a specific party's most partisan event, the national convention. There has been deserved criticism of the too- public partisan approach by C. leaders with the Republican Party, and now D. Miller does the same thing. It is all about the appearance at the specific venue.
It just seems like your point mirrors that of a teenager's when a band signs to a major record label. It's like selling out, you move on to a much bigger stage with more people and you've done wrong. Whereas, Don has moved to a larger stage with statistically more people to witness to and bring the glory of his lord to. Suddenly, he has kind of sold out in your eyes because he's in a position of leadership and shouldn't speak to these people because it might misdirect prospective followers?
asking God to help us find these things and help us restore our good standing in the world? check. unify ourselves in our actions and in our hearts to make America better? check and double check. So as fr as I can tell these seem to be issues pretty well rooted in reality and in fact. not just democratic ones, or republican ones, just general things I think all Americans want to accomplish. I think the only polarizing here is the polarizing you're making.
The polarizing I was referring to is within the Christian body. I have already commented on some of the petitions being right from the semantics of the Dem. campaign, and not about the points themselves. Fact vs. faith is a false dichotomy. Everyone has a filter/ worldview they pass their decisions through. The reasonability and rationality of the worldview is the only question and that can be examined.
If by "faith" people assume "blind faith" this is not a biblical concept.
Civil dialogue on our future? check. Dont be easily tempted toward apathy? check. opportunities to advance for the least of these? check. serve those less fortunate? check. Provide health care and a living wage to those who need it? check. pay teachers what they deserve and help kids go to college? check. Find a balance between economic opportunity and corporate gluttony? we can all agree on that I think?
Knowing that statistically there are more non-Christians involved with left-wing politics would be reason enough to use that venue not to polarize but to unite. I personally cannot disagree with anything Don said, I'd be hard pressed to agree with anyone who argues with any one of his points in his speech.
I'm not necessarily doubting the Barna Group, I'm just more apt to siding with the results of a group that is not secular or Christian, it just asks questions and they're answered. As far as the venue and the issues stated I think a lot of what Don was doing in his speech was appealing to the left and their views from a Christian standpoint. In the non-Christian eyes the views of Christians are suspect because they seem to be based on faith and not on fact.
I think during that prayer Don was simply asking God for help to find his happiness. He was asking God to help him battle his plights. He gave that Benediction in a fashion that was no different than a prayer that might be at a Church in any city in the united states. Ok, maybe that's an exaggeration, but I think any one of those things he included is likely to be in the wants/needs of a lot of Christians as well as non-Christians. I still don't see the logic in the argument.
As I said I think Don was doing the prayer for all the right reasons, and does it really, REALLY matter if it wasn't "just a prayer?" Is any prayer or sermon "just a prayer?" In my experience, a prayer is meant to be a congress with God about any of your personal plights or happiness.
Every christian I've personally spoken to in the past few days says that among their church home it's hard (or just unfavorable) to be a Democrat or be liberal in almost any form because of the all-too-common stigma that comes along with those views. Mind you, I live on the buckle of the bible belt, so it's presumably not this way everywhere.
That's my point. In many of my circles, just the opposite. Rep. or "conservative" and you are suspect. Too partisan politics polarizes. Think of Christian leaders who lend their influence and work in the public square on issues that the vast majority of Rep's and Dem's can agree on? Increases the unity of Christians and shows non-Christians that loving your neighbor and blessing the community are more important than any specific pol. agenda. It's not about R. or D.; it's just what Christians do.
I dont completely discredit the information in the book but I can say that I'd trust an organization with ample resources in statistics and their analysis over a book written by two people who are part of faith based companies. as far as D goes I don't think he would have necessarily gotten the press he did and the face time to talk to people about his political wants and needs because it's an uncomfortable subject in the christian circle.
Obviously, the way questions are asked in surveys is a consideration, as well. The accuracy of Barna Group research is well established. I agree with you about press and face time and I am not unsympathetic of taking advantage of this. I think it's actually the strongest argument for him to do what he did. I don't have any strong visceral reaction nor great differences over much of his thinking. Am persuaded to disagree because of the specific venue and his "beyond institutions" philosophy.
although I don't doubt that you're repeating statistics from "unChristian" correctly, the GSS (General Social Survey) might be more accurate due to its overall power with statistical analysis. the GSS says there has only been about a 2-5 pt. drop in overall favorability of protestant Christianity since the 1980's. Now, according to the GSS Christian affiliation of 18 to 29 year olds from the 70's to the 2000's has dropped, but only by about 13pts.
I'd also like to refer you to the video that is titled Donald Miller and is posted by Christianity Today Magazine. It was an interview with Don before his speech and I think it clears up some things and he makes some pretty valid points in my opinion.
Yes, saw the clip. I understand it is a great opportunity for D. to have a chance to talk with influential people about issues of concern from his perspective and thought he had some helpful things to say. Would he have had that opportunity if he didn't accept the role he did? I would think so. In the content of the prayer (it's never just a prayer), though eloquent and heartfelt, by using party talking point references, indicates to me this was not simply a chance to pray for our nation.
Pushiness of christian politics is another discussion altogether. My problem with the comments is mostly that I don't see any logical argument with Miller's association with any given political party. It's the political equivalency to ostracizing someone for being christian. It definitely doesn't help that Democratic politics aren't so popular in Christian circles. I guess my question is where the logic is rooted in your idea?
I get the idea that you don't want to taint your reputation with people (that you're "witnessing" to or "missioning to" or whatever the nomenclature for Christian recruiting is.) by taking sides, especially at a time like this when political association can be a very unfavorable subject. Is that the main complaint with Miller's prayer?
Yes, I would call it "compromising the receptivity for my message." For example, according to the research from the book "unChristian," 16% of non-Christians (16-29 yr. old) in America have a "good impression of present-day Christianity." A drop from 86% positive 10 years ago. A top reason given? "Christians are too involved in politics." It's not about being in the process, for me. It is about the specific venue, and the role he chose to accept. A spotlight role at the most partisan event.
I don't think that he's giving an endorsement. He's making people think. He desires to reach those who don't know Christ the way he does.
Have you ever read his books or listening to his teaching? He continually talks about how the church/pastors should not endorse a political party. Also, Don is not a pastor his is an author.
He just prayed for nation and this election. He never mentioned Obama. He prayed for the people of america. He didn't officially endorse Obama.
My assumption: D. Miller desires his "life message" to get out to people who think very differently than he does. He appears to be looking beyond 'tribal' thinking in his writings. Then is it helpful to be specifically aligned too closely to one political party and making a prominent public appearance at their most partisan public event? That's the point. Not that it was a prayer. Not that it was powerful. Not that he was gracious. If it was RNC, same exact point.
Just to supplement my comment from before I'm aware you make the statement that regardless of the political party, it's suspect. But I still cant help but wonder why you feel it's of any consequence to anyone what political party Don Miller is affiliated. I dont feel leadership is comprimised simply by saying you believe in a cause. I know all of the people I personally know as christians would love me or you or Don just as much regardless of his political faction.
Am responding to all: My hunch is that many who have posted here are like me and have been perturbed by the all- too public and "official" embrace of Republican party politics by prominent missionary leaders and their churches over the years. My hunch is you spoke of your disfavor in terms of Christians trying to be too pushy in politics. My negative assessment of this never had anything to do with this specific party or it's positions. I didn't support those actions if it was Democrats either.
(cont. from previous post) So, here is where I may differ from many of you. If you were perturbed in the past because it was specifically Republicans, rather than the general position of any faith leader or group being too involved in partisan politics, then it appears intellectually dishonest when you were claiming it had to do with Christian leaders being too pushy with their partisan political agenda, as so many did claim, but you were really perturbed because it was Republicans.
I think it's almost silly to make the argument that Don Miller is out of line in any way in doing the prayer for the DNC. I'm agnostic personally, but I've read Don's work and I enjoy his writing. What I've learned from Don is that we're all human regardless of our politics or our faith, standing behind something you believe in is a good thing. You cant knock him for seeing people who want to do things he believes in and in turn supporting them. Would you have posted video if it were at the RNC?
One of the responses to the original video this is replying to goes like this: "Using prayer to push a political agenda. Yes I do see the complete side of the Democratic party. Disgraceful."
How many times have we read this kind of thing directed at prayer in events deemed "Republican?"
I, for one (as a more liberal Christian), would like religion to stay away from the pulpit. And, that should apply both when I agree with the politics and when I don't.
Im from the south, and I am a liberal non-partisan christian, in this election I will vote Democrat. Donald Millers willingness to be a part of the DNC makes me feel like I dont have to keep my mouth shut about my political beliefs. It is hard to be a Liberal christian in the Conservative bible belt of America. Im glad Don Miller had the guts to walk out there in front of the whole world and support what he believes politically and spiritually. Even if he isnt a Democrat! It is encouraging.
If Miller were a pastor of a local church, I would agree with you. He's not! As an author and private citizen, he has every right. Have you never seen Pat Roberson hawking the Republican agenda or a specific candidate? Hello! How about James Dobson? Oh, that's right.... Have you heard of Jim Wallis on the other end? Sorry, you're just plain wrong on this one. I'm glad Miller had the guts to pray with conviction and from his Christ-focused heart. Go Miller!
here's the deal, friend... Donald Miller is not a missionary. HE IS AN AUTHOR.
he is also a free person, therefore he has the freedom to support/endorse anyone he wants. by reading his books you can tell he isn't politically neutral... he has opinions & takes a stance. it has always been apparent that he has a democratic lean.
i think it is very natural (and exciting) that Donald was invited to pray at the DNC. it is something for us to celebrate. not critique!
I personally don't come out of the whole Christian=Republican world, far from it, so it is ironic that some of the comments on my video seem to assume I must be taking a position because it is a Dem. Party thing. As I stated above, I'm just new to this video response world and the benediction clip intrigued me enough to upload my first response. I actually have done a bit of work concerning the role of missionary leader in the Public Square and thought I might get some thinking going on this.
If you've read his books then you would already know that he leans towards Democrats. I didn't need him giving the prayer to know this. I think he did a couragous thing by giving the benediction.
Yes, I agree. His party affiliation is not some new revelation. I have read Donald Miller and I am not saying he is suddenly making a shocking public witness for the Democratic Party. I am referring to this specific appearance by someone of his wider influence at this specific venue. Certainly pastors and other faith leaders have given benedictions and prayers at national conventions for both parties in the past. So, I am authentically interested in your use of the word, "courageous." Say more.
Most people think Christians are narrow-minded idiotic robotic minds for the Republican pary. If people find out that you are an evangilical Christian they ask you why do you like George Bush and the Republican party. Christians are stereotyped as Republicans. I'm a Christian, but I don't agree with President Bush or the Republican party. I'm a Democrat. When Don Miller accepted to doing the prayer he knew he would get loads of crap from loads of people. That's courage b/c I feel that's
Yes, Dan, that's exactly what I meant. Nobody seems to complain when a Pastor promotes a Republican candidate from the pulpit. Somebody needs to do so.
What I am referring to in my post to you is the assumption that all American pastors vote Republican. They don't. Not by a long shot. It might seem that way because of public media attention or the churches one happens to attend. I am new to video posting, so the reason I posted on this event rather than at a Republican one is timing. Personally, I have spoken and written against this "bully pulpit" practice on many occasions, and I teach the inappropriateness of this to pastors themselves.
I think Don said that when anyone asks us (as Christians) to pray we should. That seems reasonable to me. How missional is it to turn people requesting prayer down?
Yes, I understand he is being consistent. I just don't agree with his decision in this case. Think about your sentence "How missional is it to turn people requesting prayer down?" Are you correlating prayer in any situation, requested by any organization, for whatever purpose, at whatever venue, with whatever expectations the organization has, whether directly or assumed- as equivalent to a person coming to you and asking for prayer?
Yes, obviously my video has nothing to say about D. Miller's "right" to speak; it is about the public role of missionary leaders. I am not without a bit of ambivalence in this particular case scenario because D. Miller is noted as an author and not as a pastor, but his influence as a missionary leader still persuades me to disagree with his decision to appear at a specific venue of a national party in this way.
As you have seen in the video, I am not referring to Donald Miller's "right" to accept this role at a national party's convention. You also see that I am not saying he makes a specific endorsement. I am referring to his decision as a missionary leader to accept this invitation. I just think it compromises his impact as a Christian "voice" to Christians and potential Christians, in particular of the next generations, more than it helps, to be so specific in "party" politics in this venue.
Please create a video telling all of our nation's Pastors to stop endorsing the Republican Party from the pulpit. I've seen it done over and over again in my life.
couldn't agree with you more. Pastors compromise mission influence endorsing specific parties or candidates in public, and it is absolutely out of bounds from the "pulpit. It is too important in their missionary leader role to possibly compromise their impact in this way. That's not exactly what I am referring to with D. Miller, but you can watch the video again. I know you were only speaking in hyperbole with 'all our nation's pastors being Republican'...Right?
Yes, visit some African American churches during election time. It's all Democratic all the time. White majority churches risk losing their IRS standing if they endorse candidate.
My video has nothing to do with specific political parties. I am questioning the wisdom of Christian missionary leaders working so specifically and so publicly in the political party realm. The perception of specific support for a particular party, especially in this convention venue, is not helpful in one's missionary leadership effectiveness. I certainly respect Donald Miller's decision to pray (inspiring, btw) at the convention, and his freedom to do so. I just disagree with his decision.
His opinion is as valid as yours - so why is your video any different? He was just on a bigger TV than yours. Aren't you registered to vote? Demo or Republican - feel free to express how you feel and vote for who you want - and you should respect that choice of someone like Don.
You are correct, he didn't endorse anyone in his prayer. As you see in my video, I am not commenting on candidate endorsement. I am questioning the wisdom of the perception of support for a specific political party at their national convention by a prominent missionary leader. This isn't helpful for one's missionary leadership effectiveness.
Is there a better place to pray than over our political leaders? If not a Christian leader who would have been a better choice to lead our nation in prayer? We Christians do have a message to share. And our leaders so need to be reminded of that message.
IAmOnlyAsking 1 year ago
So you aren't saying anything about the Republicans. dude your sad
basejumpin1 1 year ago
Dan: thanks for posting this. It amazes me that many well-meaning Christians I've met have still never heard of Donald Miller. I mentioned that Miller is possibly the most influential Christian author from the past decade over supper with a friend who said he had never heard of him. Later I learned that my friend's son gave him a copy of Blue Like Jazz which he is waiting to read. I guess Miller's written works overshadow his own self. What an amazing concept.
jakethespud 2 years ago
What an amazing opportunity God gave to Don to prayer over these national leaders! I enjoyed the prayer!
lyleecoyote 2 years ago
Personally...I think you all should be grateful that there is a prayer before the proceedings. You have no idea how previlaged to even have a government that wants to pray. And here you are bickering if Don should endorse or now. Be thankful you leaders praying and allowing people to pray for God's hand. Nick - South Africa
nickswitchvert 3 years ago
somebody's jealous lol
enchalados 3 years ago
Danahanson1, i agree with what you are saying. I didn't see the DNC prayer until just a few seconds ago. I didn't know exactly who Don Miller was back when the DNC happened. I had just finished reading "Blue like Jazz", which I enjoyed very much and decided to search his name on Youtube only to find that he had endorsed a political party. I suppose that he is extremely influential, thus an endorsement needs not to be made. This endorsement is sad. (I am not Republican)
ILoveYourUsername 3 years ago
dan i think your wrong, I think a man of God like Donald Miller that can stand up for his beliefs expecially at the DNC creates a better name for Christians, that we're not all right wing nuts. If you listen to what Don Miller prayed for, all of those things are Biblical and all of those things are generally as a whole supported by the Democratic party, not the GOP. I don't know if ur a Dem or Repub, but I think what Miller did here was bold and awesome!
BRunk84 3 years ago
"Miller shouldn't be endorsing a Party" without saying "He shouldn't be THIS Party" is like saying "You should not Murder/Lie/Steal" without saying "You should not Murder/Lie/Steal BECAUSE it offends God, you Disobeyed God" This kind of Christian gutlessness is why America is awaiting the Wrath of God for our lack of Repentance for Love of Money/Homosexuality/Rape/Adultery. HEY: Give everyone some cake, then as you eat it, you get SICK (Soul's Sick) on it for being ALL ICING and no Cake.
Hartt2Serve 3 years ago
don miller should be able to express whatever view he wants just like you or anyone else. period.
swiftfiresharnael 3 years ago 2
you are so right on. i am so saddened that don miller prayed at this. it's one thing if one has a political career and professes to be a Christian, but don has written his books as TO THE PEOPLE not to a party--it's about Jesus first of all, so I am saddened that he would show an endorsement to a party. he's going to confuse a lot of people about Christ.
rvcar 3 years ago
your totally wrong, this act shows the Democrats that Christians aren't all Republicans. Everyone always assumes that Christians are narrow minded right wing nuts. Millers stand here gives a witness that we are NOT all right wing nuts.
BRunk84 3 years ago
well that is because you are a smart thinking individual. i think we as human beings get very legalistic about stuff (we love doing stuff to appease our guilt that's why following Jesus is such a challenge--balancing freedom from law yet being holy and set apart) and as a result i imagined people watching don do this prayer and then rushing out and thinking wow obama must be sent straight from God--whereas the reality is NO politican of ANY party would be such.
rvcar 3 years ago
dude, you talk in circles. thus certain people on stages being recognized as intelligent and others being seen as ridiculous in their basements.
ziggazig777 3 years ago
Being in ministry does not automatically mean being unable to express an opinion. He is not endorsing Obama by being at the DNC. He did not push his opinion on anyone, but I definitely believe he's at least entitled to it regardless of whether I agree with it or not. For Heaven's sake, pastors express political opinions from the pulpit all the time and that's more offensive than praying at a political function! Politics and religion should remain separate is what he'd probably say!
PPDthatisme 3 years ago
For the record, according to Donald's own blog, he's now on the campaign trail endorsing Obama.
harriswhistles 3 years ago
The only problem I'd have with that is if he'd endorsing Obama in the name of God. If he's endorsing Obama as just another American, I'm fine with that, but I do disagree with any person in the ministry claiming that God agrees with his/her candidate. I believe that God is neither Democrat nor Republican.
PPDthatisme 3 years ago
I don't think Don is claiming that God has endorsed Don's endorsement of Obama. But I suspect that Don will loose some degree of influence with some people because of his endorsement. That may be unfortunate, but probably a reality, and Don's a smart enough guy, he probably counted that cost when he took the Obama plunge.
harriswhistles 3 years ago
I'm sure he took that into consideration as well. It's sad that you apparently have to be a Republican in order to be a Christian... I wonder if anyone has told God that, I'm sure He'd be surprised.
PPDthatisme 3 years ago
I agree with u man, I'm sick of it. I used to be full fledged GOP until I realized that most of the crap that they stand for is not Christian in nature anyway. The GOP plays the abortion card to win Christian votes, I have fallen prey to it as well.
BRunk84 3 years ago
This is why I'm glad to NOT be a public figure. I'm glad I can have personal opinions on things and take part in activities without having them being dissected and critiqued as inappropriate by people who've not talked with me to know my actual opinions on the topics.
mtshowman 3 years ago
I think its pretty obvious your argument is not rooted in fact but is rooted in opinion. The fact is, Don didn't do anything but pray. it's a matter of where he prayed obviously. If anything his prayer reached more would be Christians and it doesn't matter where he did it.
keattaylor 3 years ago
Is this compromised in any way by having too strong of a public witness towards a specific party, in particular at the most partisan event? Is 'perception reality?' Miller is not being "left" and McPherson is not being "right" -quite the contrary, they seem connectors. Could they be an even greater influence of blessing in the lives of people who think very differently than they do, and lead others to grow to be such an influence, without the emphasis, real or perceived, of partisan politics?
danahanson1 3 years ago
After all, party officials and candidates will hear their voices, even if they decline invitations to appear at such partisan venues. Their prominence and influence are the very reason they were invited to appear at the respective conventions in the first place. If they were only there to get more votes for the party, then all these comments have been compromised, from a mission perspective.
The fact/ opinion dichotomy doesn't exist in any of this. It is all opinion by everyone.
danahanson1 3 years ago
Oh and for the record...Donald Miller is not a pastor.
time2mend 3 years ago
Wow!for the record miller claims neither left or right.and Whats so wrong with a man praying?He didnt stand and endorse Obama,he prayed to God.Whats wrong with that?If Obama is elected president,our nations needs Christ following people like miller to Pray with him and for him,befriend him.THATS WHAT JESUS WOULD DO!He Certainly wouldnt bash him,or disown him.Thank God for people like Miller,who are breaking the steryotype of religious right and bringing God to"Jews and Gentiles"Left and Right".
time2mend 3 years ago
I interchanged "pastor" and "missionary leader" in the video, which is confusing, and, yes, I do realize he is not a pastor of a congregation, as you can see in my subsequent comments. As I have also commented, I see a pastor of a church making such an appearance as even less helpful. So, yes, even though I greatly admire Mlles McPherson and thought his prayer was eloquent at the RNC, as well, I would also disagree with his decision to participate in such a way.
danahanson1 3 years ago
There are several who have commented on this video who may lean towards supporting the Democratic party and/ or Senator Obama. When they say this is "just a prayer" did they honestly say the identical thing to people who disagreed with Christian influencers like James Dobson or Max Lucado, when they made appearances to pray at Republican partisan events in highly visible public settings?
danahanson1 3 years ago
As far as the 'at least he had a chance to speak to all types of people in such an important and impactful setting' idea, I think there is missing my whole meaning on the primary role of a missionary leader. It is not about getting the biggest stage we can, or a one shot deal to get a prayer into a national convention. It is about loving our neighbor, no matter who he/she is, with compassion, graciousness, and respect, and sharing the good news of Jesus with those who are receptive.
danahanson1 3 years ago
Missionaries are way more about earning a hearing over time by living consistent, non-judgmental lives, where we are genuinely interested in the story of others and connecting with them- always authentic; never taking ourselves too seriously. "Do you want to be right or do you want to be helpful?" is the self-examining question. We are inviting others into a way of life where Jesus is Lord and Master Teacher, and making the case for following Jesus as the compelling view of reality.
danahanson1 3 years ago
As you can see, this is way more long term than short term. It is about working publicly more and more with other Christians who come from different "tribes," who see many things from very different perspectives, but who authentically exhibit practical unity together, in respect and deference- because we focus on what we hold in common: Jesus as Lord.
danahanson1 3 years ago
I agree at parts. But i vote "D" regardless of character(i think all politicians are with out that). Still yet the issues lead me that way, my morality leads me that way. I'm a christian leader, and think im more likely to end war, poverty, unequal rights, the unjust health care system (which prevents many people i know from being able to minister in poor communities). Even abortion, right wing uses it for votes but i realized they dont care.So i endorse leftwingers in hopes of changing hearts.
kingdomofpeace 3 years ago
Are you saying that you cannot be partial to a particular pary because you are christian? I am confused?
anderjoa 3 years ago
Christian leaders, like all Christians, all called to be active in the public square, to be a blessing to their neighbor. The challenge is when a leader uses his/her position or recognition, publicly, to gain a hearing for a specific political party or candidate. This is true whether it is real support or public perception.
danahanson1 3 years ago
Being a member of a political party, donating, working behind the scenes as a campaign volunteer and such, are not highly visible appearances for a specific party's most partisan event, the national convention. There has been deserved criticism of the too- public partisan approach by C. leaders with the Republican Party, and now D. Miller does the same thing. It is all about the appearance at the specific venue.
danahanson1 3 years ago
It just seems like your point mirrors that of a teenager's when a band signs to a major record label. It's like selling out, you move on to a much bigger stage with more people and you've done wrong. Whereas, Don has moved to a larger stage with statistically more people to witness to and bring the glory of his lord to. Suddenly, he has kind of sold out in your eyes because he's in a position of leadership and shouldn't speak to these people because it might misdirect prospective followers?
keattaylor 3 years ago
I think either way there's something to be said for Christians who are voting democrat this year from watching this video
s0fa 3 years ago
asking God to help us find these things and help us restore our good standing in the world? check. unify ourselves in our actions and in our hearts to make America better? check and double check. So as fr as I can tell these seem to be issues pretty well rooted in reality and in fact. not just democratic ones, or republican ones, just general things I think all Americans want to accomplish. I think the only polarizing here is the polarizing you're making.
keattaylor 3 years ago
The polarizing I was referring to is within the Christian body. I have already commented on some of the petitions being right from the semantics of the Dem. campaign, and not about the points themselves. Fact vs. faith is a false dichotomy. Everyone has a filter/ worldview they pass their decisions through. The reasonability and rationality of the worldview is the only question and that can be examined.
If by "faith" people assume "blind faith" this is not a biblical concept.
danahanson1 3 years ago
Civil dialogue on our future? check. Dont be easily tempted toward apathy? check. opportunities to advance for the least of these? check. serve those less fortunate? check. Provide health care and a living wage to those who need it? check. pay teachers what they deserve and help kids go to college? check. Find a balance between economic opportunity and corporate gluttony? we can all agree on that I think?
keattaylor 3 years ago
Knowing that statistically there are more non-Christians involved with left-wing politics would be reason enough to use that venue not to polarize but to unite. I personally cannot disagree with anything Don said, I'd be hard pressed to agree with anyone who argues with any one of his points in his speech.
keattaylor 3 years ago
I'm not necessarily doubting the Barna Group, I'm just more apt to siding with the results of a group that is not secular or Christian, it just asks questions and they're answered. As far as the venue and the issues stated I think a lot of what Don was doing in his speech was appealing to the left and their views from a Christian standpoint. In the non-Christian eyes the views of Christians are suspect because they seem to be based on faith and not on fact.
keattaylor 3 years ago
I think during that prayer Don was simply asking God for help to find his happiness. He was asking God to help him battle his plights. He gave that Benediction in a fashion that was no different than a prayer that might be at a Church in any city in the united states. Ok, maybe that's an exaggeration, but I think any one of those things he included is likely to be in the wants/needs of a lot of Christians as well as non-Christians. I still don't see the logic in the argument.
keattaylor 3 years ago
As I said I think Don was doing the prayer for all the right reasons, and does it really, REALLY matter if it wasn't "just a prayer?" Is any prayer or sermon "just a prayer?" In my experience, a prayer is meant to be a congress with God about any of your personal plights or happiness.
keattaylor 3 years ago
Every christian I've personally spoken to in the past few days says that among their church home it's hard (or just unfavorable) to be a Democrat or be liberal in almost any form because of the all-too-common stigma that comes along with those views. Mind you, I live on the buckle of the bible belt, so it's presumably not this way everywhere.
keattaylor 3 years ago
That's my point. In many of my circles, just the opposite. Rep. or "conservative" and you are suspect. Too partisan politics polarizes. Think of Christian leaders who lend their influence and work in the public square on issues that the vast majority of Rep's and Dem's can agree on? Increases the unity of Christians and shows non-Christians that loving your neighbor and blessing the community are more important than any specific pol. agenda. It's not about R. or D.; it's just what Christians do.
danahanson1 3 years ago
I dont completely discredit the information in the book but I can say that I'd trust an organization with ample resources in statistics and their analysis over a book written by two people who are part of faith based companies. as far as D goes I don't think he would have necessarily gotten the press he did and the face time to talk to people about his political wants and needs because it's an uncomfortable subject in the christian circle.
keattaylor 3 years ago
Obviously, the way questions are asked in surveys is a consideration, as well. The accuracy of Barna Group research is well established. I agree with you about press and face time and I am not unsympathetic of taking advantage of this. I think it's actually the strongest argument for him to do what he did. I don't have any strong visceral reaction nor great differences over much of his thinking. Am persuaded to disagree because of the specific venue and his "beyond institutions" philosophy.
danahanson1 3 years ago
although I don't doubt that you're repeating statistics from "unChristian" correctly, the GSS (General Social Survey) might be more accurate due to its overall power with statistical analysis. the GSS says there has only been about a 2-5 pt. drop in overall favorability of protestant Christianity since the 1980's. Now, according to the GSS Christian affiliation of 18 to 29 year olds from the 70's to the 2000's has dropped, but only by about 13pts.
keattaylor 3 years ago
I'd also like to refer you to the video that is titled Donald Miller and is posted by Christianity Today Magazine. It was an interview with Don before his speech and I think it clears up some things and he makes some pretty valid points in my opinion.
keattaylor 3 years ago
Yes, saw the clip. I understand it is a great opportunity for D. to have a chance to talk with influential people about issues of concern from his perspective and thought he had some helpful things to say. Would he have had that opportunity if he didn't accept the role he did? I would think so. In the content of the prayer (it's never just a prayer), though eloquent and heartfelt, by using party talking point references, indicates to me this was not simply a chance to pray for our nation.
danahanson1 3 years ago
Pushiness of christian politics is another discussion altogether. My problem with the comments is mostly that I don't see any logical argument with Miller's association with any given political party. It's the political equivalency to ostracizing someone for being christian. It definitely doesn't help that Democratic politics aren't so popular in Christian circles. I guess my question is where the logic is rooted in your idea?
keattaylor 3 years ago
I get the idea that you don't want to taint your reputation with people (that you're "witnessing" to or "missioning to" or whatever the nomenclature for Christian recruiting is.) by taking sides, especially at a time like this when political association can be a very unfavorable subject. Is that the main complaint with Miller's prayer?
keattaylor 3 years ago
Yes, I would call it "compromising the receptivity for my message." For example, according to the research from the book "unChristian," 16% of non-Christians (16-29 yr. old) in America have a "good impression of present-day Christianity." A drop from 86% positive 10 years ago. A top reason given? "Christians are too involved in politics." It's not about being in the process, for me. It is about the specific venue, and the role he chose to accept. A spotlight role at the most partisan event.
danahanson1 3 years ago
I don't think that he's giving an endorsement. He's making people think. He desires to reach those who don't know Christ the way he does.
Have you ever read his books or listening to his teaching? He continually talks about how the church/pastors should not endorse a political party. Also, Don is not a pastor his is an author.
He just prayed for nation and this election. He never mentioned Obama. He prayed for the people of america. He didn't officially endorse Obama.
dncnnanci5 3 years ago
DONALD MILLER was not the man who was supposed to originally pray at the Democratic Prayer. It was CAMERON STRANG (CEO of RELEVANT Magazine).
Knowing that it would APPEAR (to OVERLY critical people) that he's endorsing a political view, he backed out.
MILLER, as a favor for STRANG, accepted as replacement.
Besides, if your faulty logic is legit, JESUS should seem suspicious as well for spending so much time with prostitutes and criminals.
Thank you for discrediting a BEAUTIFUL prayer.
darkominem 3 years ago
My assumption: D. Miller desires his "life message" to get out to people who think very differently than he does. He appears to be looking beyond 'tribal' thinking in his writings. Then is it helpful to be specifically aligned too closely to one political party and making a prominent public appearance at their most partisan public event? That's the point. Not that it was a prayer. Not that it was powerful. Not that he was gracious. If it was RNC, same exact point.
danahanson1 3 years ago
Just to supplement my comment from before I'm aware you make the statement that regardless of the political party, it's suspect. But I still cant help but wonder why you feel it's of any consequence to anyone what political party Don Miller is affiliated. I dont feel leadership is comprimised simply by saying you believe in a cause. I know all of the people I personally know as christians would love me or you or Don just as much regardless of his political faction.
keattaylor 3 years ago
Am responding to all: My hunch is that many who have posted here are like me and have been perturbed by the all- too public and "official" embrace of Republican party politics by prominent missionary leaders and their churches over the years. My hunch is you spoke of your disfavor in terms of Christians trying to be too pushy in politics. My negative assessment of this never had anything to do with this specific party or it's positions. I didn't support those actions if it was Democrats either.
danahanson1 3 years ago
(cont. from previous post) So, here is where I may differ from many of you. If you were perturbed in the past because it was specifically Republicans, rather than the general position of any faith leader or group being too involved in partisan politics, then it appears intellectually dishonest when you were claiming it had to do with Christian leaders being too pushy with their partisan political agenda, as so many did claim, but you were really perturbed because it was Republicans.
danahanson1 3 years ago
I think it's almost silly to make the argument that Don Miller is out of line in any way in doing the prayer for the DNC. I'm agnostic personally, but I've read Don's work and I enjoy his writing. What I've learned from Don is that we're all human regardless of our politics or our faith, standing behind something you believe in is a good thing. You cant knock him for seeing people who want to do things he believes in and in turn supporting them. Would you have posted video if it were at the RNC?
keattaylor 3 years ago
One of the responses to the original video this is replying to goes like this: "Using prayer to push a political agenda. Yes I do see the complete side of the Democratic party. Disgraceful."
How many times have we read this kind of thing directed at prayer in events deemed "Republican?"
I, for one (as a more liberal Christian), would like religion to stay away from the pulpit. And, that should apply both when I agree with the politics and when I don't.
LiftAloft 3 years ago
Doh!
I meant, of course, that politics should stay away from the pulpit.
I'm still partial to religion being on it, notwithstanding my liberalness. :)
LiftAloft 3 years ago
nice situational ethics!
thejrowe 3 years ago
Im from the south, and I am a liberal non-partisan christian, in this election I will vote Democrat. Donald Millers willingness to be a part of the DNC makes me feel like I dont have to keep my mouth shut about my political beliefs. It is hard to be a Liberal christian in the Conservative bible belt of America. Im glad Don Miller had the guts to walk out there in front of the whole world and support what he believes politically and spiritually. Even if he isnt a Democrat! It is encouraging.
mattwalker83 3 years ago
If Miller were a pastor of a local church, I would agree with you. He's not! As an author and private citizen, he has every right. Have you never seen Pat Roberson hawking the Republican agenda or a specific candidate? Hello! How about James Dobson? Oh, that's right.... Have you heard of Jim Wallis on the other end? Sorry, you're just plain wrong on this one. I'm glad Miller had the guts to pray with conviction and from his Christ-focused heart. Go Miller!
tccedar 3 years ago
I agree that it was a beautiful prayer. I pray that he's invited to the Republican convention to pray again! Even if he is a Democrat.
Even if his is a missionary, the whole context of church and state is wack and wrong today...
TheRealMattamac 3 years ago
oh, how clever.
LITTLER0CKAR 3 years ago
I'm pretty much a hardcore republican. I have also read three of Miller's books and really enjoyed them. Here's the point: it was a BEAUTIFUL prayer.
I don't understand how praying on such a national stage comprises his voice. On the contrary, his prayer reached many, many people.
Beard21284 3 years ago
here's the deal, friend... Donald Miller is not a missionary. HE IS AN AUTHOR.
he is also a free person, therefore he has the freedom to support/endorse anyone he wants. by reading his books you can tell he isn't politically neutral... he has opinions & takes a stance. it has always been apparent that he has a democratic lean.
i think it is very natural (and exciting) that Donald was invited to pray at the DNC. it is something for us to celebrate. not critique!
shelbeeblack 3 years ago
Get over it! It was a great prayer. Who cares if he made it at the DNC.
SecretMeeting3 3 years ago
I personally don't come out of the whole Christian=Republican world, far from it, so it is ironic that some of the comments on my video seem to assume I must be taking a position because it is a Dem. Party thing. As I stated above, I'm just new to this video response world and the benediction clip intrigued me enough to upload my first response. I actually have done a bit of work concerning the role of missionary leader in the Public Square and thought I might get some thinking going on this.
danahanson1 3 years ago
If you've read his books then you would already know that he leans towards Democrats. I didn't need him giving the prayer to know this. I think he did a couragous thing by giving the benediction.
abliberty 3 years ago
Yes, I agree. His party affiliation is not some new revelation. I have read Donald Miller and I am not saying he is suddenly making a shocking public witness for the Democratic Party. I am referring to this specific appearance by someone of his wider influence at this specific venue. Certainly pastors and other faith leaders have given benedictions and prayers at national conventions for both parties in the past. So, I am authentically interested in your use of the word, "courageous." Say more.
danahanson1 3 years ago
Most people think Christians are narrow-minded idiotic robotic minds for the Republican pary. If people find out that you are an evangilical Christian they ask you why do you like George Bush and the Republican party. Christians are stereotyped as Republicans. I'm a Christian, but I don't agree with President Bush or the Republican party. I'm a Democrat. When Don Miller accepted to doing the prayer he knew he would get loads of crap from loads of people. That's courage b/c I feel that's
abliberty 3 years ago
the real reason the other guy didn't do it is because he was afraid of all the crap he would get for it. It would take courage to do it.
abliberty 3 years ago
Yes, Dan, that's exactly what I meant. Nobody seems to complain when a Pastor promotes a Republican candidate from the pulpit. Somebody needs to do so.
photography4me 3 years ago
What I am referring to in my post to you is the assumption that all American pastors vote Republican. They don't. Not by a long shot. It might seem that way because of public media attention or the churches one happens to attend. I am new to video posting, so the reason I posted on this event rather than at a Republican one is timing. Personally, I have spoken and written against this "bully pulpit" practice on many occasions, and I teach the inappropriateness of this to pastors themselves.
danahanson1 3 years ago
I think Don said that when anyone asks us (as Christians) to pray we should. That seems reasonable to me. How missional is it to turn people requesting prayer down?
jdcox1999 3 years ago
Yes, I understand he is being consistent. I just don't agree with his decision in this case. Think about your sentence "How missional is it to turn people requesting prayer down?" Are you correlating prayer in any situation, requested by any organization, for whatever purpose, at whatever venue, with whatever expectations the organization has, whether directly or assumed- as equivalent to a person coming to you and asking for prayer?
danahanson1 3 years ago
(Follow-up comment):
In other words, it's called "freedom of speech".
Railrho 3 years ago
Yes, obviously my video has nothing to say about D. Miller's "right" to speak; it is about the public role of missionary leaders. I am not without a bit of ambivalence in this particular case scenario because D. Miller is noted as an author and not as a pastor, but his influence as a missionary leader still persuades me to disagree with his decision to appear at a specific venue of a national party in this way.
danahanson1 3 years ago
Last time I checked the US Constitution, people are free to endorse any candidate of any party that they wish.
Railrho 3 years ago
As you have seen in the video, I am not referring to Donald Miller's "right" to accept this role at a national party's convention. You also see that I am not saying he makes a specific endorsement. I am referring to his decision as a missionary leader to accept this invitation. I just think it compromises his impact as a Christian "voice" to Christians and potential Christians, in particular of the next generations, more than it helps, to be so specific in "party" politics in this venue.
danahanson1 3 years ago
Please create a video telling all of our nation's Pastors to stop endorsing the Republican Party from the pulpit. I've seen it done over and over again in my life.
photography4me 3 years ago
Tell that to Jeremiah Wright.
scotthenning 3 years ago
couldn't agree with you more. Pastors compromise mission influence endorsing specific parties or candidates in public, and it is absolutely out of bounds from the "pulpit. It is too important in their missionary leader role to possibly compromise their impact in this way. That's not exactly what I am referring to with D. Miller, but you can watch the video again. I know you were only speaking in hyperbole with 'all our nation's pastors being Republican'...Right?
danahanson1 3 years ago
Yes, visit some African American churches during election time. It's all Democratic all the time. White majority churches risk losing their IRS standing if they endorse candidate.
crashtx1 3 years ago
My video has nothing to do with specific political parties. I am questioning the wisdom of Christian missionary leaders working so specifically and so publicly in the political party realm. The perception of specific support for a particular party, especially in this convention venue, is not helpful in one's missionary leadership effectiveness. I certainly respect Donald Miller's decision to pray (inspiring, btw) at the convention, and his freedom to do so. I just disagree with his decision.
danahanson1 3 years ago
His opinion is as valid as yours - so why is your video any different? He was just on a bigger TV than yours. Aren't you registered to vote? Demo or Republican - feel free to express how you feel and vote for who you want - and you should respect that choice of someone like Don.
lumpsumz 3 years ago
Are you kidding me? He didn't endorse anyone.
egibbel8 3 years ago
You are correct, he didn't endorse anyone in his prayer. As you see in my video, I am not commenting on candidate endorsement. I am questioning the wisdom of the perception of support for a specific political party at their national convention by a prominent missionary leader. This isn't helpful for one's missionary leadership effectiveness.
danahanson1 3 years ago