Abus Steel o flex cable lock getting chopped.

[BillieJean900]

hmm a C4 bomb is good for thief

[GhibliFan1]

They always use the floor for leverage in these videos and bike locks are rarely near the floor... using just your two arms is a lot harder for armoured cable locks. They still have their place in the market, which is why they have lower ratings for lower crime areas. Some cyclists agonise over weight reduction, giving kudos to one product that is grams lighter than another, then they buy half a steel yard to carry around in the shape of a u-lock. I've happily used an armoured cable for 6 years.

[CaptainCropper]

@GhibliFan1, I could try to convince you otherwise, but I think the best way to understand the situation is to cut one yourself with a cable cutter, it's not that hard even just using arm muscles, it's just a skinny little cable inside a load of shrink wrapped mild steel cups. I understand totally what you say about weight and whatnot, but people really should be given all the facts so they can make an educated decision.

[MiguelAbburido]

Why are you showing people how to do this?

[CaptainCropper]

@MiguelAbburido, Hi, very simple, because people buy these locks thinking they are going to do a good job of securing their bike, I am showing them that no cable lock available right now is worth having and that you should choose something better to secure your bike. Thieves have a job, it is to steal things, they already know about the tools to use, I am just showing honest people how bad these locks are so they can make an informed decision and not rely on testing bodies accreditations.

[ukmale164]

@CaptainCropper thanks for giving a shit! everyone who owns a bike needs a good chain, some people are hard up. Dont buy a bike unless you've got a serious chain!

[CaptainCropper]

@ukmale164, for people who are hard up, there are some very cheap hefty (12mm or so) chains on the market that will be a million times more useful than a cable lock. To cut a chain you need croppers or a grinder, to cut cable you can use pretty much anything from a pair of scissors upwards. It's time cable was removed from Sold Secure's list of approved products for anything.

[ukmale164]

@CaptainCropper yeah, ppl need to be informed and you've done a great job mate you have a lot of videos im sure ppl will see. In the fight against thieves we need to know whats shit and whats good. yeah i agree how the fuck can sold secure let this shit pass through its testing, they must use a butter knife to try and get through the chains. sold secure cant be relied on, almax can :D

[CaptainCropper]

@ukmale164, annoyingly, even after the global exposure these videos have attained, Sold Secure are STILL passing sub 16mm chains and D locks for Motorcycles Gold (the highest vehicular level they have). Sub 16mm means they can be cropped with 42" Records croppers, the same ones we use and the same ones Sold Secure use. Maybe people think that some accreditation is better than none, I disagree, using your noodle and doing some research will land you with a better lock.

[leukorrivore]

The new ones aren't hollow :P. Have you come across pinhead locks?

[CaptainCropper]

@leukorrivore, Hi, if you're talking about the Pinhead Skewers, then I've tested them for the CTC magazine here in the UK and they performed very well indeed as long as they were fitted correctly.

Not sure what you're saying about the non hollow locks, can you expand a little?

[leukorrivore]

@CaptainCropper I bought a cable like the one you're chopping in this video, and there's a diagram on the packet showing that it's full of braided cable inside the steel links. It looks like the one you're cutting here is hollow, unless it's just not visible.

[CaptainCropper]

@leukorrivore, ah right. No, the one I cut definitely had a cable inside, not particularly thick, about 5-7mm. The problem with cables is (as I may have said before) that if they were thick enough to deter cable cutters, they would be too thick to bend, so the manufacturers make them look beefy by putting pointless and ineffective "armour" on them or encasing the cable in clear plastic that magnifies the appearance of the cable.

[aldoz2007]

@CaptainCropper I have recently bought a £80 2nd hand Giant mountain bike, and am looking for a lock or 2 for it. In relation to the price of the bike, what lock(s) would you recommend? Would a Kryptonite KryptoLok for £28 be sufficient? And maybe a chain to lock the front wheel to the frame? I don't exactly want to be spending more money on locks then the bike cost! THanks!

[thehomme]

I never said it was a chain. I just said that there are lots of different Steel-O-Flexes and a bit of clarification on the type would make things clearer.

Can I ask if ALL cables are so easily broken then why do so many insurance companies insure against theft if you're using a gold sold secured lock such as the Granit 1050? Why are they not blacklisted by the insurance companies. Doesn't add up and you seem to be pushing ALMAX chains whether you work for them or not. Perhaps you sell them?

[CaptainCropper]

@thehomme, I've chopped two Granit 1050, one was in front of ACPO representatives at Northampton HQ and the other was in front of an ITV film crew. Insurance companies insure against theft whether you are using a cable or not, you might get a discount, but the use of a cable is not a requirement. Sold Secure means nothing unfortunately, they trimmed back the crappier locks after ACPO had a chat with them but they have been creeping back over the last year or so. Avoid cables if possible.

[thehomme]

@CaptainCropper So the lock in this video isn't a 1050 or is it? If it isn't what is it?

You obviously know about locks but I can assure you from personal experience that insurance companies do not insure against theft if you are not using a lock and go by the sold secure rating of locks for what value bike they will insure against. Generally a bronze for less than £500. Silver for £500-1500 and Gold is required for anything over £1500. Any bike locked without a SS lock isn't insured 4 theft

[CaptainCropper]

@thehomme, I think we are crossing wires, are you talking about cycle insurance?

[thehomme]

@CaptainCropper Yes. BiCycle insurance for push bikes. I see now that you're talking about motorbikes. Carrying a 7kg chain to lock an 8kg bike is pretty impractical. Chains much more practical for a motorbike where you've got an inbuilt pannier.

So which Steel o flex was cut in the above clip?

[CaptainCropper]

@thehomme, The cable in the clip was identical in every way to the current Granit, with the exception of the sleeve. The construction is the same inside. Put it this way, in the other videos, we went for Sold Secure Motorcycles GOLD chains, these are claimed to last at least 5 minutes with (and we have confirmed this) Record 42" bolt croppers, 5 minutes. The quickest I managed to cut a Sold Secure MC Gold chain was 2 seconds. You have to ask, if I can do it, why can't Sold Secure?

[thehomme]

@CaptainCropper Yeah...sorry to come across all Paxman but can you tell me what the make of Steel o Flex you actually cut in the video is.

I think that there's two separate issues here getting confused. First is the sold secure mark which you say and I don't doubt, doesn't match up to the claims made by sold secure. I agree. Clearly I can see the commercial logic in SS charging a lock company £000's for a rating that lock co. can then use to persuade people to buy their lock over another

[CaptainCropper]

@thehomme, It's an ABUS, I might have the bits stil indoors, if I find them I'll PM you and email the pics to you. Regarding Sold Secure, it's not really the insurance companies job to make sure that the Home Office and Northampton Police founded company, Sold Secure, are doing their job, from their point of view, something is better than nothing, unless you use a £10 something on a £2000 bike. Contd....

[CaptainCropper]

@thehomme, Some insurers (Bikesure) have actually bit the bullet and started to refuse insurance on certain motocycles unless they have an Almax chain or similar, but they are in the minority, the rest are happy to give you a 5% discount for Sold Secure Gold stuff even if it's just to give them a reason to refuse to pay out if your bike is stolen and you haven't used it. It's very interesting to see what other copanies the directors of Sold Secure are also directors of :o)

[thehomme]

@CaptainCropper I know you want to tell me. What other companies are directors of SS directors of? I only ended up here as recently had bike nicked and posted to LFGSS and got a v. patronising response. Had Steel o flex 1000 but it wasn't cut. Bought exactly the same lock. Now you got me all paranoid and thinking that I need to buy a 6kg ALMAX chain. It's only for a £500-1000 or so bike. Nice bike but nothing special

[CaptainCropper]

@thehomme, I'll get the accurate info on the directorships and get back to you. You don't need a 6kg Almax, as I said, the 16mm or 18mm Kryptonite D locks, used properlly (i.e. locked though the bottom crank or in such a way that you cannot fit an orange in the gap left in the D section of the lock) will do the job perfectly well. They can't be cropped, but if you leave a big gap, they can be jacked. I use a 16mm Kryptonite on my pushbike and am happy to continue doing so. £60 for the 16mm.

[thehomme]

@CaptainCropper Cheers. The problem with small d locks is finding a suitably thin post to lock it to. The cable/chain enables you to always lock through wheel & frame and pretty much any sort of post. What's better Kryptonite Fahgettaboudit Mini 18mm or Kryptonite New York 3000 (on 11/15 security)

What do you reckon to the Abus City Chain X Plus 1060 110cm?

[CaptainCropper]

@thehomme, I tested the Bordo a while back, it's not bolt cropper proof but it's a thousand times better than any cable on the market. It's not cheap though and you can break it if there is sufficiant slack left over, but if I were in a position where a large post was my only locking point, I'd go for a Bordo or similar. As to what's best out of your list, the Abus City Chain X Plus is worst because it has really tiny links inside that chunky sleeve, tiny links means smaller tools can be used..

[CaptainCropper]

@thehomme, the best D lock of the two depends on your situation, if you are stuck for locking points, the New York will offer greater scope, if you have a guaranteed cycle bay then the 18mm Mini would be better. Seriously, the New York is fine if you do what I said about filling the D, I've had 3 apart now and the design is fine, the lock mechanism is cheap but well designed and effective against drilling. Take no notice of the Kryptonite theft guarantee, it don't mean jack.

[CaptainCropper]

@thehomme, also. avoid anything with a round key like the one in one of my other vids here, have a look, it's an Oxford D lock picked with the end of a pen.

[CaptainCropper]

@thehomme, more food for thought, have a look at quickrelease.tv/?s=sold+secure­, if the link is blocked by Youtube, go to quickrelease DOT tv and search sold secure, the fat man on the page is me.

[CaptainCropper]

@thehomme, if you're in to cycling, maybe approach the CTC and ask if they would be interested in doing a cable lock article in which someone else pays for the locks and I break them.

[thehomme]

@CaptainCropper The second point does confused me. Why do insurance companies provide insurance against these locks if they are so vulnerable to attack?

[CaptainCropper]

@thehomme, the cable had the same locking mechanism as the £100 Granit cable, the same cable diameter and the same armour cup size. As I mentioned, I have cut two brand new Granit cables and they offered no more resistance than this old thing that someone gave me for free. Every time I have to prove a point, it costs £100 for a new Granit, I'm sure you can appreciate that. However, a new video specifically targeting cables is on the way as soon as we can blag some stuff.

[CaptainCropper]

@thehomme, if you search Youtube for Kassa3 - 'how to steal a bike', you'll see a reformed cycle thief getting through some cables with pliers or hand cutters, it's not just me, they really aren't worth the money. A 16mm or 18mm Kryptonite D lock, used properly, will offer much better value for money, or if you feel flush, an Abus 59 square shackle D lock (heavy, expensive, but very well made.)

[thehomme]

It doesn't look like a Granit to me. The plastic is translucent in this one and the links in the chain more pronounced. In fact it looks very much like the 950 that's in the related videos and that I know to be a much weaker chain.

[CaptainCropper]

@thehomme, it's not a chain, it's a cable and what type of cable it is is totally irrelevant, there is not one single security cable on the market that can't be cut with snips, pliers or a cable cutter. The armour is merely a hindrance. Cables should be used for very low value items as they offer a pathetic amount of security for what they cost.

[drwal44]

it is not Abus Lock!!!

its just old metal pipe.

this video is shit

[CaptainCropper]

@drwal44, Yes it is, no it isn't and you are entitled you your opinion.

[davidoffon]

Caught a Junkie, West End 8 years ago, he attacked me with a bike tool , having stolen some Italian guys vintage bike the night bef4. had the bolt cropper tied in his jacket. He was totally wild, I had to head butt him three time to finish him off, this was while the italian and another guy were working his lower body, all the time he was stabbing the Italian. Cops did nothing because I mentioned head butting in the statement, which they wanted to leave out, I wouldn't do that, trip u in crt

[LondonFocusRS]

ALMAX chains are the best locks out there end of, it you want a chain that cant be cut by bolt cutters ALMAX is the chain for you.....

[CaptainCropper]

Yes my friend, I know, I am Captain Cropper, I test Almax kit for them :o)

See the other vids, especially the Sold Secure ones, you might like them.

[mglbrmf]

Could you be a bit more specific about what kind of lock that was? Abus makes locks called "steel-o-flex" that range from well below 30€ to about 100€. Also, there is nothing in this video indicating this is even an abus lock, there are a whole bunch of cheap (as little as 5€) locks that look like these, but have failed even more primitive breaking tests. The current steel-o-flex (1050) has gotten quite a few good reviews, in some cases holding longer than a similarly priced u-type lock.

[CaptainCropper]

That was a Steel O Flex, it's in the video title. I've seen reviews on security products that are based on little more than appearances, don't trust them. In my experience, cable locks are the biggest ripoff going, even the armoured and braided ones can be cut in a few seconds with a cable cutter. Seriously, buy a decent D lock instead.

[AlkieFish]

lost my key to an ABUS STEEL-O-CHAIN LOCK.

Can someone help? How do I open it?

[CaptainCropper]

Cable cutters? If you don't want to spend much, then a hammer and cold chisel will do the job.

[AlkieFish]

Thanks for replying Cap.

Where do I hammer? Where the key goes?

And what do you think about this:

pouring water into the lock, spraying it with a fire extinguisher ( liquid nitrogen ), and hitting it with a hammer?

[semieden]

What kind of cable choppers are these? I've never seen them before, do you have a name for them? thanks.

[nformby]

Watch the vid mate. ;)

[CaptainCropper]

Actually, do a Youtube search on... Ennyit ér a gerinclakat...it returns ONE video of someone cutting an armoured cable with croppers, nive sharp croppers.

[williamn6133]

The video you mention shows some Germans cutting a £20 "Kryptonite Keeper Value"... which I somehow doubt is as strong as a £60 Abus Steeloflex

[CaptainCropper]

Hi, it depends on the cable lock, most of them have a solid point where the cable is crimped onto the locking pin, this is where croppers would work easily. In fact I lost a Piaggio Typhoon 125 to thieves when I used a Barbed Wire cable years ago, I could see the nibbles on the cable where they tried to crop it but then they went for the pin, broke it and stole the bike. Luckily they left the cable for me to inspect and work out what my next item of security was going to be. Not a cable :o)

[Ariceater]

That tool you used did not look like a pair of bult croppers. Is that one made specifically for cropping steel cables, and if so, how hard is it to crop a cable liek that with the more commonly used bolt cutters that criminals are more likely to have with them?

[Almaxsecurity]

That tool is a pair of £27 cable cutters (28" I think) with hollow tubed handles. I would imagine thieves would carry a small selection of tools. Given bikes owners have a chain or cable lock then having both tools croppers and cable cutters would be a good idea. Not a lot of point limiting your options by having only one tool.