Miller actually makes a really good point here. You would do well to listen to him. It's important to know what it FEELS like to square the club face at impact. If the right hand is closed at impact the ball with likely draw, if the right hand is open to the sky the ball will likely fade. This is a great tip and it makes complete sense to me! You are a tool for thinking otherwise and your sarcastic remarks were arrogant and annoying.
@JAYMANNN9 Do you really think that Mickelson and Harrington somehow missed the fact that the clubface should be square at impact? You think they don't know how it "feels"? That's 7 majors between the two. I'm not surprised you totally get the essence of Miller's "tip". Sounds like it's right on your level. Oh yeah, and my wife calls me an arrogant, annoying tool all the time. You'll have to come up with something better if you want to hurt my feelings.
@JAYMANNN9 sorry but you are wrong. if the face is closed at impact you will most likely hit a pull and if the face is open it will be a push. the face in relation to the path will then determine draw or fade. Wayne does a really good job breaking down the golf swing and Miller is clueless
@vistafrog basically what I said. Closed hand = closed face = draw. Open hand = open club face = fade. How could you say arguably the best ball striker of all time is clueless.
@JAYMANNN9 that isn't what you said. if you actually knew what you are talking about you would know that you can hit a hook with a club face that is open to the target. it would be a push hook but you can hit a hook with an open face. lots of great players don't know or understand the golf swing. I am the Director of Instruction at a club that has 5 PGA tour members and 3 nationwide tour guys and I get questions from those guys all the time that are what I consider basic that they don't know
@vistafrog Very few players hit hooks with open club faces. Face angle has a LOT to do with direction of the ball, but swing path + face angle = direction. I`m a CPGA professional myself so I do know a little about the golf swing.
@JAYMANNN9 face angle has a LOT to do with the original starting line and then its relation of face to path that determines flight. Miller is clueless not because of what he was as a player but that he constantly says things that are flat out wrong. not wrong in my opinion just flat out wrong. when he says Hogan chased down the target line he is spouting a flat out falsehood. he does not understand modern instruction and I applaud Wayne for calling him out
@vistafrog Haven`t heard him talk about Hogan chasing down the target line, but his lessons on youtube, I guess IMO, are fucking gold. I love the one with the tennis racquet comparing the golf swing to tennis. Think its under Johnny Miller Draw. Look it up!
@JAYMANNN9 I agree Jay. Johnny only talks about things he knows very very well. I think it is hard to take a swing key and condense it into 20 seconds, but I think Johnny does a good job of it, even though you can twist a small peice of what he says into sounding dumb. Johnny is not dumb.
oh darn, nicklaus' and hogan's clubs were 84* not 90 :( johnny miller should be fired for being so far off!! he's spot on with this tip... assuming all other variables are in the right spot, his tip is perfect
I definitely respect Johnny because he is a major champion. But being a major champion does not make you a brain surgeon of the golf swing. I mean honestly of all the golf videos on youtube Wayne seems to make the most sense. Johnny is full of rants and he has the same three tips in most of the clinic videos on youtube. Brush the grass he says. Whatever. Going back to what I said before...... Would anybody go to Butch Harmon and tell him he cannot teach golf just because of no Majors?
You are obviously misinterpreting...He was and still is one of the greatest ball strikers of all time...and Mickelson isn't. I do believe he has a valid opinion!
Millers big on a mental picture of a Wall perpendicular to the target line rising from the ball that you can match your forward arm, Shaft, club face too at impact. If pushed hed say shoulders 20 degrees open, elbow pointing properly forward etc. Some start their hands whereever they want & feel the swing. Hes saying Under pressure simplify your swing setup & focus on "Feeling the Impact position"-gd idea/poor comunication of it. He knows more than all of you bout great golf under pressure
@cockywatchman1976 U need to take a week off and quit the game. Leave the golf gene pool as fast as u can pls. Thats what he is "actually saying". troll boy.
@YaaashMichaelScott Oooh gene pool, like you know what a gene pool is, you stupid retard. Go and play with the traffic. How exactly do I "take a week off and quit the game"? Youtube is definitely the place for you my simple friend-abuse people behind your screen, Moron!
Although i do agree that miller is not completely correct in saying that i would like to say that the shaft would not be on a line straight up from the ball it would be straight up from the hosel so those guys dont have their hands nearly as far behind the ball as they appear to be in this video
Look... Wayne is kind of a d*ck, and Miller is incorrect. Both of them need to take some constructive criticism. What miller is try to say is that you need to to "feel" the club come back to 90. You don't have to set it up that way. But Wayne is to damn visual in his analysis. Golf swings don't happen in slow mo, you have to feel it. So they're both right and both wrong. btw, Phil's address was ridiculously behind Jack's & Paddy's. C'mon man. Would you really recommend that address to a studen
Wayne I watch your dissection of many golf swings . I'm curious to know if the camera angles that the videos were shot from were in the correct position from the start. I 've spent many yrs shooting film. Angle effect conclusions.
Retired from golf and working as an TV golf analysis, "Johnny" was literally called out by all his critics and then won the '94 AT&T. After that he faded into the sunset like Clint or was it a draw.....can't remember! LMFAO!!!
I can respect the fact that you don't like Miller cause he's very arrogant....BUT - he is one of the few professionals left who simplifies the game the way it was once played. Because his TV analysis is less than a minute - he can't fully explain anything and is getting to the meat and potatoes of the issue - I value what he says and I believe in it - remember this about Miller....27 wins, 2 majors in ONLY 400 starts...that's pretty good and I’ll listen to everything he says
@CdnGulfa That's fair. I just like to point out that some of the things he says should be questioned by someone. No one on air seems to want to do it so I take a shot at it every now and then. It is interesting in general to see someone as good as Miller was say things that are so off base. I think that the majority of people accept what he says because of his playing record. I guess I'm saying that upon deeper analysis his statements deserve more skepticism.
@wdefrancesco Couple years ago Faldo was on Golf Channel covering some tournament on Thurs/Fri and CBS was picking up the feed for the weekend -Johnny came on GC for a cameo - someone was in the bunker and Johnny said the golfer hit a stone which caused the reaction of the ball - Faldo totally called him out saying "how can you know that - that's impossible." I tried to find the footage but failed....you would have liked it. Search Johnny Miller swing fundamentals....tell me what u think
@wdefrancesco Listen, do yourself a favor and watch Johnny Millers instructional video's here on you tube before you say another negative thing about the MAN Johnny Miller. You are so far off base I had to say something for future listeners to your bad remarks.
@wdefrancesco I mean he is a major champion... that's kind of the definition of a golf genius. His instructional videos here on youtube have made me a fan. That being said, these tips they show during tournaments are usually totally useless because they are such an oversimplification. So in that way I agree with you but I think it has more to do with what the networks allow people to say and how much time they get. Give Johnny 5 minutes and he'll start making sense.
i like your posts wayne and i agree with your assertion that some of the stuff miller says is obsurd. but be careful what you wish for this guy gives you a lot of material...lol
It's just too much fun not to crack on Johnny. Great Golfer, but sh*t for brains. The stuff that comes out of his mouth.......well this is for all the "Mr." Miller Lovers.
"Mediate looks like the guy who cleans Tiger's swimming pool."
- Johnny Miller During the final round of the 2008 U.S. Open
oooooooh Johnny, how can anyone take your gibberish serious? About golf or anything else for that matter? Your own head has stretched your ass so far that I bet a V-Harness would fit nicely up there.
Just wanted to verify what both you Miller are saying.Is he discussing the set up position or the impact postion.I could be wrong but I think Miller is refering to the impact position not set up and you are refering to the set up.Because neither Nicklaus or Hogan had the same impact position as the club sat at address.When at impact their hands led the handle through with a flat left bent right,same with Millers swing.At address they are in the opposite position.I know you know this.?????
@secretogolf You know, I really kind of goofed on this one because a few minutes after this snippet Miller launched into another rant about Mickelson's setup and how his hands were too far behind the ball. I should have included this in my video- it would have eliminated the confusion. My points were that having the shaft 90 degrees at impact does not make the face square (a vast oversimplification), and that where the hands are in the setup has little to do with the eventual impact position.
Wayne I think you're Johnny Miller videos are excellent.
I mean Miller is actually just thinking of random things he knows as truths to his own golf swing, whilst completely unaware that he is totally incapable of communicating these things to other human beings using English.
He is laughable. And your videos and analysis of Hogan and Allenby et al, are in contrast, wonderful.
i like to look at mark o meara... i love the simple two waggles then back and thru. id like to see some analysis on his golf swing. watched him at baltimore cc last year and the guy hit every fairway and missed one green on the fringe and every ball just sounded flush.
Ok. I believe Johnny is talking about 90 degree rule at impact. Simply it is wrong to show any great players address position hands behind the ball to prove Johnny is wrong. Because that's not what he is talking about. At impact your club head just needs to be squared for a straight possible shot. And u get that by his 90 degree thing. Period. It seems hogan did it at impact in this video. I am 2 handicapper btw.
@scottlee73 90 degree rule? Where did that come from? Do you seriously think that if you get the shaft to 90 at impact that the clubface will somehow magically be square? The two things have nothing to do with each other. Having the shaft at 90 degrees at impact means that you will be using the true loft of the club to lauch the ball. The face could be pointing anywhere. Suggesting that one guarantees the other is misguided at best.
@wdefrancesco With all due respect, I believe Johnny is talking about 90 degree rule same as the good old theory that the back of left hand (for right-hander) should square to the target at IMPACT.
I just wanted to point out that your video is simply talking about the club shaft angle at ADDRESS position while Johnny is actually talking about squaring hands position at IMPACT.
@wdefrancesco With all due respect, I believe Johnny is talking about 90 degree rule same as the good old theory that the back of left hand (for right-hander) should square to the target at IMPACT.
I just wanted to point out that your video is simply talking about the club shaft angle at ADDRESS position while Johnny is actually talking about squaring hands position at IMPACT.
@wdefrancesco (continued) That is just Golf 101 although it is easier said than done. Somehow I agree the word, “90 degree rule", could mislead some golfers though. Good example is that someone like you with good understanding of golf swing still creates a YouTube video like this and others just follows Johnny is all BS. That is not the right way to respect someone spent all his life in golf.
@wdefrancesco (continued) I believe there is no single perfect swing works for everyone nor a golf swing tip should apply to everyone. For example, for a strong left hand gripper, the back of left hand squaring at Impact thing will only give him a hook shot.
I appreciate your other analysis and video, but please be careful and discuss it with others before uploading it to public.
Wayne, you are a total legend and you are bang on about Miller and Faldo - it's just lazy commentary. Check out the 'Tiger shank' video on youtube where Faldo ties himself up in embarrasing knots talking about his clubface going from open to shut then back to open again - it's total nonsense.
Please don't listen to the blind Miller followers on here who give you a hard time - keep doing what you're doing, golf needs you.
If yall wanna know something about the law of physics and how it relates to the golf swing check out THE PEAK PERFORMANCE GOLF SWING. Miller is on the right track when talking about setting the shaft closer to 90 degrees, but seriously check out that swing and really learn how the golf swing is suppose to work.
@jdizzlenelly Are you serious? Doesn't it bother you that not a single swing on the PGA Tour looks anything like what Don Trahan is talking about? Do you really think that he has reinvented the wheel and that if you do what he says you'll get it in two buckets of balls and then you don't have to practice? There's a sucker born every second. I promise you that I'll do a video on Trahan's swing and show you what a joke his scam really is.
haha yea it does bother me that the players havent taken the time to look into the swing. at that level i can imagine it would be difficult to all a sudden switch what they're doing, but its an evolving process for many players. its no scam, just loo @ DJ Trahan. Great stats, drives the ball accurate and long and his G.I.R's are right up at the top. I'd never go back to swinging the way i used to...its not worth causing my body anymore pain :D
@wdefrancesco id also love to see a video on the Trahans' swings! maybe u could send your analysis' to him? id like to see what he would think too! plus it would be great for your viewers to see what this swing is all about. The more promotion the better! so many great success stories with this swing and im proud to be apart of it!!
Miller is pretty comical at times. I guess these announcers sometimes just need to make up stuff to talk about. Hey folks , i know why you are not draining all your putts. Want to know why? Simple, you are violating the law of physics by not hitting the ball on the correct line with the proper amount of break and speed taken into consideration. Start doing that and i assure you they will start dropping. Can I now be an NBC announcer? LOL
@wdefrancesco Oh, sorry Wayne, not you. I love your advice. I think the way you break down and explain the different tour swings is fantastic. If I lived near you I'd try and get lessons from you. I think Miller is a narcissistic boob. I met him once when I worked at a golf course, here, in So. Ca and he was a very erect PENIS to the staff. One of his fellow announcers called him "the man with the plastic arm" because he could always find some way to pat himself on the back.
let jm teach his way and you can teach yours,,,,,who's to say whose right and who is right, if you dont like what another teacher says please dont listen to them, do you know exactly what your talking about. JM is a hall of famer in my book...
WdeF - Got to let it go mate. You're time is better spent doing the swing analysis. I already spend too much time trawling through your videos and have learnt loads just watching and listening. So....please don't worry about this mug and keep the good work up.
P.S you're right on Charley Hoffman, shame, as he would have been dangerous in Wales.
He mentions this crap in his preface analysis in 'Golfs Greatest Swings' mag 1995. 'If the clubshaft is at 90 degrees [driver, at impact] its a promise of physics that the player hit a good shot'. I'm pretty sure i could have the clubshaft at 90 deg and make a fresh airswing. I thought he just simplified things for the limited space of the article but to hear him describe it like that again after 15 years shows he really hasn't got any real interest in developing his or audience understanding.
@stenson3001 Thanks and good job noting Miller's previous comments on the swing. Maybe some of Johnny's fans who think I'm just picking on him will read this and think about it for a second. Yes, he was a great ball striker. Yes, he won majors. No, he does not understand how he could help the average person with their golf. My guess is he hasn't thought outside of his little box since 1985.
If Miller knew so much, he would still be playing. Not sitting on his high horse in a booth acting like he is God's gift to golf and criticizing players that could beat him on their worst day! He is an idiot and a complete jerk for some of the comments he has made over the years.
no problem in saying negative things in the booth, but they should be at least debatable. 90% of the things that Miller says are totally wrong and sometimes unfair. In this case, so many things happen during a golf swing (weight shift, rotation of the torso, only to point acouple) that is ludicrous to think that the only thing that matters is the shaft 90º vertical at adress, it sounds almost superstition. he told about a tour pro that his swing deserved to be puked
no problem in saying negative things in the booth, but they should be at least debatable. 90% of the things that Miller says are totally wrong and sometimes unfair. In this case, so many things happen during a golf swing (weight shift, rotation of the torso, only to point acouple) that is ludicrous to think that the only thing that matters is the shaft 90º vertical at adress, it sounds almost superstition. he told about a tour pro that his swing deserved to be puked
I listened to it again to make sure I heard it correct and so feel pretty secure in saying this. He didn't say anything about hands. He said the shaft needs to be 90 degrees to the target line. If you're going to criticize JM at least get the information correct. I think you just have an extreme prejudice against JM. K.
@Akbaaz A few minutes later in the broadcast he had Mickelson at address with his hands behind the ball and made a point of saying how bad this was. I should have included the segment in the video. The real point is that thinking that telling Mahan, Kim and mickelson that the shaft needs to be 90 degrees to the target line at impact and that would fix their driving shows how delusional Miller is when it comes to the golf swing. It was easy for him, and his explanations follow that fact.
Mickleson has the ball positioned too far forward in the videos. Look at ball position, not alignment, as each player's is a fraction different. Hogan was the best, love the video of the master! ....and look at his ball position, right in line. It's ok if you don't like miller, I don't like Mike Mulberry, who calls NHL games.....he's a loudmouth moron. Prolly from being checked into the boards too many times!
Foot in mouth, but many times, he still knows what he's talking about re: hockey.
@TheBusiness55 Miller earned his right to be in the booth. That doesn't mean no one should question the substance of what he says. People actually listen to him and take his opinions seriously. There are many times when he says incredibly dumb things that are not only not true but would be detrimental to anyone trying to incorporate the information. Other times he vastly oversimpifies complex ideas, as many hyper-talented people do. I try to point these things out.
JM is right where he's supposed to be, in the booth commenting and keeping everyone confused because it sells the game of golf. Magazines, clubs, balls you name it, but he did have a load of talent and his swing in his prime was second to none. Maybe he knows more than the free advice he's pawning off to millions of viewers but I'm with Wayne on this one folks. Study the swings and that's where you'll find the answers.
Agree with Wayne. As one who stands on the lesson tee all day, JM is oversimplifying driving the ball. There is no mention of face angle, angle of approach, path, center hit, etc...What would happen if a player returns the club back to the "90" degree angle and the shaft were steeper (65deg) with a toe hit? The player definitely got the club back to 90, but I can't imagine that ball going toward the target.
If it were that easy, everyone would be doing it right?
This is a good argument bcus ur both wrong and ur both right but neither could understand the other lol. i've got a little insight but i cant share, waaay to many hours to figure it out. All im gona say is the relation between the grip and the head(grip ahead, grip behind) has everything to do with the shot if it has everything to do with the shot and not a hell of a lot to do with the shot if it doesn't have a hell of a lot to do with the shot. lol. understanding helps, criticizing does not.
@JTPxxx I suppose since you've "figured it out" that you must have won a few events recently. Since you can't share your hard-won knowledge why don't you thrill everyone with the details of your sucesses?
@wdefrancesco i suppose ud like to see Barry Bonds batting coach go out and have a 50 home run season too. lol come on man, you need to get ur head on straight.
hey wayne, if these people went to their local pro to get a lesson and he gave them this crap they'd say..."duh, can you expound on that and show me how?"
i am perplexed by some of the reactions you have received...johnny may have just as well told them to hit the ball straighter.
@naflack thank you. It seems that criticizing oversimplification is a no-no. Everyone wants it to be easier and simpler. It isn't, but that doesn't deter the folks that head to the range every day to find the one thing that will make them great. Johnny plays to that crowd perfectly. Good thing he was immensely talented. He would never have been any good had he had to figure anything out.
you are retarded wdefrencesco, absolutlely retarded. Do you really think that miller's tip is about the adress and the takaway? Nope, it's not. It's about returning your wrists to the same positions as adress. His idea of 90 degrees just signifies being square to the target. Although your example of phil appears to be below 90* at adress and more at impact is not important. His wrist posisiton needs to be the same. The relative tilt of the shaft (*s)has absolutley nothing to do with face angle.
@someguy92172 Have you ever rotated a shaft? If you do, the face changes angle. You can return the shaft to 90 degrees to the target line all you want, and all you'll get is the true loft of the club. You haven't addressed the face angle or the approach angle at all. Too complicated for you? Sorry. Keep listening to Johnny. He'll keep it simple. And you'll keep hitting it all over the place. Trust me, it's harder than he makes it seem. My guess is you don't have Miller's talent.
@wdefrancesco u got some good points. but you must still be retarded because you cant understand that i am discarding the belief that face angle (to target, we're not talking about loft) is determined by shaft angle (or tilt, whatever you want to call it). Why would i give a shit about the "loft of the club"? We are discussing the horizontal accuracy of the ball, not the verticle. All johnny is saying is the face angle will be more square if the wrist are in the same position, hence the horz *s
so, you learn 90 degress is just a reference for the wrists. for example, phils "lipstick angle" will be the same at impact as adress, even though the shaft angle may have changed. YES, you are Right that it is more complicated than this. timing can mess the horizontal face angle up. open shoulders can pull; closed can push. a faulty grip changes everything. bla bla bla assuming these factors are relatively constant, the grips good and timing is on, this wrist tip will prevent that slice/hook
im sorry it is hard for you to understand, but if you are having trouble with understanding words, please refer to 54-57. It is quite obvious to see that the wrist angle changes. And it makes sense because there is NO shaft in this demo. Astonishingly, the shaft is not the focus here. WOW
@someguy92172 No im sorry its hard for YOU to understand. Miller clearly states and i quote "you should set up 90 degrees ...the shaft angle to the target line". Explain that MORON. Oh yeah i saw your swing you uploaded on your page, its awful, what are you a 30 handicap? And you just called a PGA teacher of the year and a man who has played in more majors and tour events than you have even watched on tv..a retard. and I' m talking about Wayne not Miller you god damn hack. STFU.
Johnny mentions the setup in about .05 seconds. Johnny talks almost exclusively, in this video, about IMPACT POSITION, not setup. Arrogant wdefrancesco spends most of his time focusing on the setup. Wrong issue, wdefrancesco! No wonder your mind is boggled as you say.
u r really bordering on hack status. i can appreciate that u are clearly not a jm fan, but there is a difference between being skeptical and having a vendetta. it seems most of ur uploads are merely to trash his advice. as it's impossible to know that u can even break 100, but certain that jm has won...how many majors?...i will certainly be taking ur advice over his. here, JM was talking about the impact position, not the setup. don't say it's annoying to listen to him if u didn't listen.
@bohemian1905 miller did two things. He criticized mickelson for setting up with his hands behind the ball, and he stated that if anyone retuned the shaft to 90 degrees at impact they would drive it great. I showed hogan and nicklaus at setup,then made the comment that perhaps his advice was a bit simplistic, which I don't think is much of a stretch. Also, you can find my playing resume on my website. I can break 100.
miller, like most instructors and students of the golf swing, is prone to projecting his keys/problems onto other players when he breaks down a golf swing.maybe the 90 degree rule for him was the key to him being a great driver of the ball, which he was, but that doesn't mean it has to work for someone else.every player has different little checks to maintain their form but what makes a good teacher is someone that can seperate themselves from the student. johnny's just suggesting something here
Johnny is mainly talking about the impact position! "Get it BACK to 90 degrees," he says. I don't think he really cares how they setup to the ball, whether the hands are behind or in even with the ball. I do laugh at some of the things he says while commentating. Like, "that sounded 2 groves low to me, huh, Rog"..haha. 2 Groves exactly? lol. I do however think that this is a really good tip he gives here, especially since accuracy was the strength of his game.
kidding yourself again. Johnnys dead right. Whats wrong with you!!!!!!!!!! oooh the camera angle is off..etc its you that is making stuff up! how many majors you won dude?
@hardyhardhor great. Did you try Johnny's advice? I'm sure you're driving it great by now. Just get that shaft 90 degrees to the target line. It's so simple. I can't understand why everyone thinks it's so difficult. I take it all back. Johnny, you're the greatest. Just keep telling it like it is.
@wdefrancesco What is your problem with Johnny miller. He was one of he greats. Coming down the stretch in majors he used to pepper he flag hole after hole. this guy knows the swing for real no bullshit over analysis and no hero worship of the pros he comments on. He s a leading analyst for one of the biggest broadcasers. Suppose everything hes done is a fluke and you know it all.
Nicklaus later adjusted his set up position so that the hands were in front of the ball and the left arm, club shaft and club head were in a straight line as shown in his books. This was a set-up position some players took from Nicklaus. The idea is that it is as a preview of impact.
@wdefrancesco Well Nicklaus made that adjustment with Grouts help and he was a big hitter then. Snead, Miller and Watson set-up this way.
Hogan's impact position, of course, the hands lead the clubhead. However he set up as you show here, and I think B. Harmon teaches that. Thus that's how Mickleson sets up.
J miller= total fucking jerkoff
rrtmlt 1 month ago
Johnny Miller...The John Madden of Golf
theciskokidd 1 month ago
Miller actually makes a really good point here. You would do well to listen to him. It's important to know what it FEELS like to square the club face at impact. If the right hand is closed at impact the ball with likely draw, if the right hand is open to the sky the ball will likely fade. This is a great tip and it makes complete sense to me! You are a tool for thinking otherwise and your sarcastic remarks were arrogant and annoying.
JAYMANNN9 2 months ago
@JAYMANNN9 Do you really think that Mickelson and Harrington somehow missed the fact that the clubface should be square at impact? You think they don't know how it "feels"? That's 7 majors between the two. I'm not surprised you totally get the essence of Miller's "tip". Sounds like it's right on your level. Oh yeah, and my wife calls me an arrogant, annoying tool all the time. You'll have to come up with something better if you want to hurt my feelings.
wdefrancesco 2 months ago 8
@JAYMANNN9 sorry but you are wrong. if the face is closed at impact you will most likely hit a pull and if the face is open it will be a push. the face in relation to the path will then determine draw or fade. Wayne does a really good job breaking down the golf swing and Miller is clueless
vistafrog 2 months ago
@vistafrog basically what I said. Closed hand = closed face = draw. Open hand = open club face = fade. How could you say arguably the best ball striker of all time is clueless.
JAYMANNN9 2 months ago
@JAYMANNN9 that isn't what you said. if you actually knew what you are talking about you would know that you can hit a hook with a club face that is open to the target. it would be a push hook but you can hit a hook with an open face. lots of great players don't know or understand the golf swing. I am the Director of Instruction at a club that has 5 PGA tour members and 3 nationwide tour guys and I get questions from those guys all the time that are what I consider basic that they don't know
vistafrog 2 months ago
@vistafrog Very few players hit hooks with open club faces. Face angle has a LOT to do with direction of the ball, but swing path + face angle = direction. I`m a CPGA professional myself so I do know a little about the golf swing.
JAYMANNN9 2 months ago
@JAYMANNN9 face angle has a LOT to do with the original starting line and then its relation of face to path that determines flight. Miller is clueless not because of what he was as a player but that he constantly says things that are flat out wrong. not wrong in my opinion just flat out wrong. when he says Hogan chased down the target line he is spouting a flat out falsehood. he does not understand modern instruction and I applaud Wayne for calling him out
vistafrog 2 months ago
@vistafrog Haven`t heard him talk about Hogan chasing down the target line, but his lessons on youtube, I guess IMO, are fucking gold. I love the one with the tennis racquet comparing the golf swing to tennis. Think its under Johnny Miller Draw. Look it up!
JAYMANNN9 2 months ago
@JAYMANNN9 I agree Jay. Johnny only talks about things he knows very very well. I think it is hard to take a swing key and condense it into 20 seconds, but I think Johnny does a good job of it, even though you can twist a small peice of what he says into sounding dumb. Johnny is not dumb.
DippedInSauce801 2 months ago
oh darn, nicklaus' and hogan's clubs were 84* not 90 :( johnny miller should be fired for being so far off!! he's spot on with this tip... assuming all other variables are in the right spot, his tip is perfect
retreattodefeat 2 months ago
I definitely respect Johnny because he is a major champion. But being a major champion does not make you a brain surgeon of the golf swing. I mean honestly of all the golf videos on youtube Wayne seems to make the most sense. Johnny is full of rants and he has the same three tips in most of the clinic videos on youtube. Brush the grass he says. Whatever. Going back to what I said before...... Would anybody go to Butch Harmon and tell him he cannot teach golf just because of no Majors?
stive01j 3 months ago
You are obviously misinterpreting...He was and still is one of the greatest ball strikers of all time...and Mickelson isn't. I do believe he has a valid opinion!
painebobby 5 months ago
Millers big on a mental picture of a Wall perpendicular to the target line rising from the ball that you can match your forward arm, Shaft, club face too at impact. If pushed hed say shoulders 20 degrees open, elbow pointing properly forward etc. Some start their hands whereever they want & feel the swing. Hes saying Under pressure simplify your swing setup & focus on "Feeling the Impact position"-gd idea/poor comunication of it. He knows more than all of you bout great golf under pressure
YaaashMichaelScott 6 months ago
@YaaashMichaelScott wow, you talk utter shit don't you. It must be your genetics. An extra chromosome is extremely hard to deal with.
cockywatchman1976 6 months ago
Is he actually telling people to lose lag and potentially flip. This guy is a moron!
cockywatchman1976 6 months ago
@cockywatchman1976 U need to take a week off and quit the game. Leave the golf gene pool as fast as u can pls. Thats what he is "actually saying". troll boy.
YaaashMichaelScott 6 months ago
@YaaashMichaelScott Oooh gene pool, like you know what a gene pool is, you stupid retard. Go and play with the traffic. How exactly do I "take a week off and quit the game"? Youtube is definitely the place for you my simple friend-abuse people behind your screen, Moron!
cockywatchman1976 6 months ago
Peter Kostis is the worst
deanw0rmer 6 months ago
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dreamguy51 7 months ago
talk about not paying attention... He was talking about impact position, not set-up. Thank you for this lesson in paying attention. ;-)
TadRapidly 7 months ago
Although i do agree that miller is not completely correct in saying that i would like to say that the shaft would not be on a line straight up from the ball it would be straight up from the hosel so those guys dont have their hands nearly as far behind the ball as they appear to be in this video
bigb29952995 7 months ago
Look... Wayne is kind of a d*ck, and Miller is incorrect. Both of them need to take some constructive criticism. What miller is try to say is that you need to to "feel" the club come back to 90. You don't have to set it up that way. But Wayne is to damn visual in his analysis. Golf swings don't happen in slow mo, you have to feel it. So they're both right and both wrong. btw, Phil's address was ridiculously behind Jack's & Paddy's. C'mon man. Would you really recommend that address to a studen
ptrainormk 8 months ago
Dont you know setup isnt the same as impact
MrRounder64 8 months ago
miller is dumb
Kenobi561 8 months ago
if anyone believes what Miller says here makes any sense at all you need your head examined
Bibich212 9 months ago
i've been putting lipstick on my handle and my driving still sucks. now i have lipstick on my hands.
dschultz6072 9 months ago
johnny = fuckin wanker
silowhore 10 months ago
Wayne I watch your dissection of many golf swings . I'm curious to know if the camera angles that the videos were shot from were in the correct position from the start. I 've spent many yrs shooting film. Angle effect conclusions.
CSQUAREGOLF 10 months ago
Retired from golf and working as an TV golf analysis, "Johnny" was literally called out by all his critics and then won the '94 AT&T. After that he faded into the sunset like Clint or was it a draw.....can't remember! LMFAO!!!
riverace7 11 months ago
Johnny says the shaft should be parallel to the target. Is the target he is talking about the ball or the the target he is aiming at??
nathanheaton 11 months ago
I can respect the fact that you don't like Miller cause he's very arrogant....BUT - he is one of the few professionals left who simplifies the game the way it was once played. Because his TV analysis is less than a minute - he can't fully explain anything and is getting to the meat and potatoes of the issue - I value what he says and I believe in it - remember this about Miller....27 wins, 2 majors in ONLY 400 starts...that's pretty good and I’ll listen to everything he says
CdnGulfa 11 months ago
@CdnGulfa That's fair. I just like to point out that some of the things he says should be questioned by someone. No one on air seems to want to do it so I take a shot at it every now and then. It is interesting in general to see someone as good as Miller was say things that are so off base. I think that the majority of people accept what he says because of his playing record. I guess I'm saying that upon deeper analysis his statements deserve more skepticism.
wdefrancesco 11 months ago
@wdefrancesco Couple years ago Faldo was on Golf Channel covering some tournament on Thurs/Fri and CBS was picking up the feed for the weekend -Johnny came on GC for a cameo - someone was in the bunker and Johnny said the golfer hit a stone which caused the reaction of the ball - Faldo totally called him out saying "how can you know that - that's impossible." I tried to find the footage but failed....you would have liked it. Search Johnny Miller swing fundamentals....tell me what u think
CdnGulfa 11 months ago
@wdefrancesco Listen, do yourself a favor and watch Johnny Millers instructional video's here on you tube before you say another negative thing about the MAN Johnny Miller. You are so far off base I had to say something for future listeners to your bad remarks.
superiorexercise 11 months ago
@superiorexercise You're right. What was I thinking? Miller is a genius.
wdefrancesco 11 months ago 7
@wdefrancesco I mean he is a major champion... that's kind of the definition of a golf genius. His instructional videos here on youtube have made me a fan. That being said, these tips they show during tournaments are usually totally useless because they are such an oversimplification. So in that way I agree with you but I think it has more to do with what the networks allow people to say and how much time they get. Give Johnny 5 minutes and he'll start making sense.
lahillsm3 3 months ago
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f0cusen 7 months ago
SHOW ME A FUNDAMENTAL, AND I WILL SHOW YOU A GREAT PLAYER WHO DOES THE OPPOSITE. THERE ARENT ANY GOLF FUNDAMENTALS.
sandwah9 11 months ago
i like your posts wayne and i agree with your assertion that some of the stuff miller says is obsurd. but be careful what you wish for this guy gives you a lot of material...lol
naflack 1 year ago
When did you shoot 63 to win the open. never
MrFitzwilly 1 year ago
Miller was not saying what you are saying he said. I suggest you look for someone else to pick on that you ar not so jealous of.
MrFitzwilly 1 year ago
It's just too much fun not to crack on Johnny. Great Golfer, but sh*t for brains. The stuff that comes out of his mouth.......well this is for all the "Mr." Miller Lovers.
"Mediate looks like the guy who cleans Tiger's swimming pool."
- Johnny Miller During the final round of the 2008 U.S. Open
oooooooh Johnny, how can anyone take your gibberish serious? About golf or anything else for that matter? Your own head has stretched your ass so far that I bet a V-Harness would fit nicely up there.
hennybogan007 1 year ago
Just wanted to verify what both you Miller are saying.Is he discussing the set up position or the impact postion.I could be wrong but I think Miller is refering to the impact position not set up and you are refering to the set up.Because neither Nicklaus or Hogan had the same impact position as the club sat at address.When at impact their hands led the handle through with a flat left bent right,same with Millers swing.At address they are in the opposite position.I know you know this.?????
secretogolf 1 year ago
@secretogolf You know, I really kind of goofed on this one because a few minutes after this snippet Miller launched into another rant about Mickelson's setup and how his hands were too far behind the ball. I should have included this in my video- it would have eliminated the confusion. My points were that having the shaft 90 degrees at impact does not make the face square (a vast oversimplification), and that where the hands are in the setup has little to do with the eventual impact position.
wdefrancesco 1 year ago
Wayne I think you're Johnny Miller videos are excellent.
I mean Miller is actually just thinking of random things he knows as truths to his own golf swing, whilst completely unaware that he is totally incapable of communicating these things to other human beings using English.
He is laughable. And your videos and analysis of Hogan and Allenby et al, are in contrast, wonderful.
Keep up the brilliant work.
Kind regards,
Nick Maxwell
mrcrazylaugh 1 year ago
Thank you Miller is the worst.
littlebigtrain 1 year ago
i like to look at mark o meara... i love the simple two waggles then back and thru. id like to see some analysis on his golf swing. watched him at baltimore cc last year and the guy hit every fairway and missed one green on the fringe and every ball just sounded flush.
irmadupr 1 year ago
Ok. I believe Johnny is talking about 90 degree rule at impact. Simply it is wrong to show any great players address position hands behind the ball to prove Johnny is wrong. Because that's not what he is talking about. At impact your club head just needs to be squared for a straight possible shot. And u get that by his 90 degree thing. Period. It seems hogan did it at impact in this video. I am 2 handicapper btw.
scottlee73 1 year ago
@scottlee73 90 degree rule? Where did that come from? Do you seriously think that if you get the shaft to 90 at impact that the clubface will somehow magically be square? The two things have nothing to do with each other. Having the shaft at 90 degrees at impact means that you will be using the true loft of the club to lauch the ball. The face could be pointing anywhere. Suggesting that one guarantees the other is misguided at best.
wdefrancesco 1 year ago 2
@wdefrancesco With all due respect, I believe Johnny is talking about 90 degree rule same as the good old theory that the back of left hand (for right-hander) should square to the target at IMPACT.
I just wanted to point out that your video is simply talking about the club shaft angle at ADDRESS position while Johnny is actually talking about squaring hands position at IMPACT.
scottlee73 1 year ago
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@wdefrancesco With all due respect, I believe Johnny is talking about 90 degree rule same as the good old theory that the back of left hand (for right-hander) should square to the target at IMPACT.
I just wanted to point out that your video is simply talking about the club shaft angle at ADDRESS position while Johnny is actually talking about squaring hands position at IMPACT.
scottlee73 1 year ago
@wdefrancesco (continued) That is just Golf 101 although it is easier said than done. Somehow I agree the word, “90 degree rule", could mislead some golfers though. Good example is that someone like you with good understanding of golf swing still creates a YouTube video like this and others just follows Johnny is all BS. That is not the right way to respect someone spent all his life in golf.
scottlee73 1 year ago
@wdefrancesco (continued) I believe there is no single perfect swing works for everyone nor a golf swing tip should apply to everyone. For example, for a strong left hand gripper, the back of left hand squaring at Impact thing will only give him a hook shot.
I appreciate your other analysis and video, but please be careful and discuss it with others before uploading it to public.
Cheers.
scottlee73 1 year ago
Wayne, you are a total legend and you are bang on about Miller and Faldo - it's just lazy commentary. Check out the 'Tiger shank' video on youtube where Faldo ties himself up in embarrasing knots talking about his clubface going from open to shut then back to open again - it's total nonsense.
Please don't listen to the blind Miller followers on here who give you a hard time - keep doing what you're doing, golf needs you.
scotti2hotti2 1 year ago
If yall wanna know something about the law of physics and how it relates to the golf swing check out THE PEAK PERFORMANCE GOLF SWING. Miller is on the right track when talking about setting the shaft closer to 90 degrees, but seriously check out that swing and really learn how the golf swing is suppose to work.
jdizzlenelly 1 year ago 3
@jdizzlenelly Are you serious? Doesn't it bother you that not a single swing on the PGA Tour looks anything like what Don Trahan is talking about? Do you really think that he has reinvented the wheel and that if you do what he says you'll get it in two buckets of balls and then you don't have to practice? There's a sucker born every second. I promise you that I'll do a video on Trahan's swing and show you what a joke his scam really is.
wdefrancesco 1 year ago 2
haha yea it does bother me that the players havent taken the time to look into the swing. at that level i can imagine it would be difficult to all a sudden switch what they're doing, but its an evolving process for many players. its no scam, just loo @ DJ Trahan. Great stats, drives the ball accurate and long and his G.I.R's are right up at the top. I'd never go back to swinging the way i used to...its not worth causing my body anymore pain :D
jdizzlenelly 1 year ago 4
@wdefrancesco id also love to see a video on the Trahans' swings! maybe u could send your analysis' to him? id like to see what he would think too! plus it would be great for your viewers to see what this swing is all about. The more promotion the better! so many great success stories with this swing and im proud to be apart of it!!
jdizzlenelly 1 year ago 4
Miller is pretty comical at times. I guess these announcers sometimes just need to make up stuff to talk about. Hey folks , i know why you are not draining all your putts. Want to know why? Simple, you are violating the law of physics by not hitting the ball on the correct line with the proper amount of break and speed taken into consideration. Start doing that and i assure you they will start dropping. Can I now be an NBC announcer? LOL
bluetiege 1 year ago
what a pompous dipshit
komine866 1 year ago
@komine866 Who, me, or Johnny?
wdefrancesco 1 year ago
@wdefrancesco Oh, sorry Wayne, not you. I love your advice. I think the way you break down and explain the different tour swings is fantastic. If I lived near you I'd try and get lessons from you. I think Miller is a narcissistic boob. I met him once when I worked at a golf course, here, in So. Ca and he was a very erect PENIS to the staff. One of his fellow announcers called him "the man with the plastic arm" because he could always find some way to pat himself on the back.
komine866 1 year ago
let jm teach his way and you can teach yours,,,,,who's to say whose right and who is right, if you dont like what another teacher says please dont listen to them, do you know exactly what your talking about. JM is a hall of famer in my book...
sulakleo 1 year ago
WdeF - Got to let it go mate. You're time is better spent doing the swing analysis. I already spend too much time trawling through your videos and have learnt loads just watching and listening. So....please don't worry about this mug and keep the good work up.
P.S you're right on Charley Hoffman, shame, as he would have been dangerous in Wales.
coryrodd 1 year ago
But Wayne, if you don't listen to Johnny you're going to become the human hay bailer. You better watch out
JazzandSoul1 1 year ago
He mentions this crap in his preface analysis in 'Golfs Greatest Swings' mag 1995. 'If the clubshaft is at 90 degrees [driver, at impact] its a promise of physics that the player hit a good shot'. I'm pretty sure i could have the clubshaft at 90 deg and make a fresh airswing. I thought he just simplified things for the limited space of the article but to hear him describe it like that again after 15 years shows he really hasn't got any real interest in developing his or audience understanding.
stenson3001 1 year ago
@stenson3001 Thanks and good job noting Miller's previous comments on the swing. Maybe some of Johnny's fans who think I'm just picking on him will read this and think about it for a second. Yes, he was a great ball striker. Yes, he won majors. No, he does not understand how he could help the average person with their golf. My guess is he hasn't thought outside of his little box since 1985.
wdefrancesco 1 year ago
If Miller knew so much, he would still be playing. Not sitting on his high horse in a booth acting like he is God's gift to golf and criticizing players that could beat him on their worst day! He is an idiot and a complete jerk for some of the comments he has made over the years.
gatorcc70 1 year ago
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no problem in saying negative things in the booth, but they should be at least debatable. 90% of the things that Miller says are totally wrong and sometimes unfair. In this case, so many things happen during a golf swing (weight shift, rotation of the torso, only to point acouple) that is ludicrous to think that the only thing that matters is the shaft 90º vertical at adress, it sounds almost superstition. he told about a tour pro that his swing deserved to be puked
danic18 1 year ago
no problem in saying negative things in the booth, but they should be at least debatable. 90% of the things that Miller says are totally wrong and sometimes unfair. In this case, so many things happen during a golf swing (weight shift, rotation of the torso, only to point acouple) that is ludicrous to think that the only thing that matters is the shaft 90º vertical at adress, it sounds almost superstition. he told about a tour pro that his swing deserved to be puked
danic18 1 year ago
I listened to it again to make sure I heard it correct and so feel pretty secure in saying this. He didn't say anything about hands. He said the shaft needs to be 90 degrees to the target line. If you're going to criticize JM at least get the information correct. I think you just have an extreme prejudice against JM. K.
Akbaaz 1 year ago
@Akbaaz A few minutes later in the broadcast he had Mickelson at address with his hands behind the ball and made a point of saying how bad this was. I should have included the segment in the video. The real point is that thinking that telling Mahan, Kim and mickelson that the shaft needs to be 90 degrees to the target line at impact and that would fix their driving shows how delusional Miller is when it comes to the golf swing. It was easy for him, and his explanations follow that fact.
wdefrancesco 1 year ago
Mickleson has the ball positioned too far forward in the videos. Look at ball position, not alignment, as each player's is a fraction different. Hogan was the best, love the video of the master! ....and look at his ball position, right in line. It's ok if you don't like miller, I don't like Mike Mulberry, who calls NHL games.....he's a loudmouth moron. Prolly from being checked into the boards too many times!
Foot in mouth, but many times, he still knows what he's talking about re: hockey.
myguitarwantstokill 1 year ago
Ugh how many times have you beaten Seve Ballesteros AND Jack Nicklaus?
Where did you finish in the field at Pebble Beach in 1994?
Perhaps thats why Miller gets to make these remarks on TV and you just bitch about them on Youtube!
TheBusiness55 1 year ago
@TheBusiness55 Miller earned his right to be in the booth. That doesn't mean no one should question the substance of what he says. People actually listen to him and take his opinions seriously. There are many times when he says incredibly dumb things that are not only not true but would be detrimental to anyone trying to incorporate the information. Other times he vastly oversimpifies complex ideas, as many hyper-talented people do. I try to point these things out.
wdefrancesco 1 year ago
@wdefrancesco
Ok - fair enough - point taken.
At least he's interesting, unlike the commentary on the European Tour.
Seriously, THOSE guys should be retired. Every round is a dreamy snorefest.
At least Miller has the balls to call it as he sees it.. most commentators are too afraid to say anything negative!
TheBusiness55 1 year ago
JM is right where he's supposed to be, in the booth commenting and keeping everyone confused because it sells the game of golf. Magazines, clubs, balls you name it, but he did have a load of talent and his swing in his prime was second to none. Maybe he knows more than the free advice he's pawning off to millions of viewers but I'm with Wayne on this one folks. Study the swings and that's where you'll find the answers.
patricktorin 1 year ago
Agree with Wayne. As one who stands on the lesson tee all day, JM is oversimplifying driving the ball. There is no mention of face angle, angle of approach, path, center hit, etc...What would happen if a player returns the club back to the "90" degree angle and the shaft were steeper (65deg) with a toe hit? The player definitely got the club back to 90, but I can't imagine that ball going toward the target.
If it were that easy, everyone would be doing it right?
McDanielGolf 1 year ago
@McDanielGolf Exactly. Thanks.
wdefrancesco 1 year ago
he wasn't talking about address. why don't you listen?
contracat 1 year ago
@contracat exactly..he was talking about impact..not address position. Wayne...your deaf I guess?
JefferyGrounds 1 year ago
LONG LIVE JOHNNY MILLER! THE WORLD'S BEST SWING COACH AND ANNOUNCER!
JTPxxx 1 year ago
This is a good argument bcus ur both wrong and ur both right but neither could understand the other lol. i've got a little insight but i cant share, waaay to many hours to figure it out. All im gona say is the relation between the grip and the head(grip ahead, grip behind) has everything to do with the shot if it has everything to do with the shot and not a hell of a lot to do with the shot if it doesn't have a hell of a lot to do with the shot. lol. understanding helps, criticizing does not.
JTPxxx 1 year ago
@JTPxxx I suppose since you've "figured it out" that you must have won a few events recently. Since you can't share your hard-won knowledge why don't you thrill everyone with the details of your sucesses?
wdefrancesco 1 year ago
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JTPxxx 1 year ago
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@wdefrancesco i suppose ud like to see Barry Bonds batting coach go out and have a 50 home run season too. lol come on man, you need to get ur head on straight.
JTPxxx 1 year ago
@wdefrancesco lol. I was thinking the same. That guy must be making millions by now off tour pros with that knowledge.
criswelljody 1 year ago
hey wayne, if these people went to their local pro to get a lesson and he gave them this crap they'd say..."duh, can you expound on that and show me how?"
i am perplexed by some of the reactions you have received...johnny may have just as well told them to hit the ball straighter.
naflack 1 year ago
@naflack thank you. It seems that criticizing oversimplification is a no-no. Everyone wants it to be easier and simpler. It isn't, but that doesn't deter the folks that head to the range every day to find the one thing that will make them great. Johnny plays to that crowd perfectly. Good thing he was immensely talented. He would never have been any good had he had to figure anything out.
wdefrancesco 1 year ago
you are retarded wdefrencesco, absolutlely retarded. Do you really think that miller's tip is about the adress and the takaway? Nope, it's not. It's about returning your wrists to the same positions as adress. His idea of 90 degrees just signifies being square to the target. Although your example of phil appears to be below 90* at adress and more at impact is not important. His wrist posisiton needs to be the same. The relative tilt of the shaft (*s)has absolutley nothing to do with face angle.
someguy92172 1 year ago
@someguy92172 Have you ever rotated a shaft? If you do, the face changes angle. You can return the shaft to 90 degrees to the target line all you want, and all you'll get is the true loft of the club. You haven't addressed the face angle or the approach angle at all. Too complicated for you? Sorry. Keep listening to Johnny. He'll keep it simple. And you'll keep hitting it all over the place. Trust me, it's harder than he makes it seem. My guess is you don't have Miller's talent.
wdefrancesco 1 year ago
@wdefrancesco u got some good points. but you must still be retarded because you cant understand that i am discarding the belief that face angle (to target, we're not talking about loft) is determined by shaft angle (or tilt, whatever you want to call it). Why would i give a shit about the "loft of the club"? We are discussing the horizontal accuracy of the ball, not the verticle. All johnny is saying is the face angle will be more square if the wrist are in the same position, hence the horz *s
someguy92172 1 year ago
so, you learn 90 degress is just a reference for the wrists. for example, phils "lipstick angle" will be the same at impact as adress, even though the shaft angle may have changed. YES, you are Right that it is more complicated than this. timing can mess the horizontal face angle up. open shoulders can pull; closed can push. a faulty grip changes everything. bla bla bla assuming these factors are relatively constant, the grips good and timing is on, this wrist tip will prevent that slice/hook
someguy92172 1 year ago
im sorry it is hard for you to understand, but if you are having trouble with understanding words, please refer to 54-57. It is quite obvious to see that the wrist angle changes. And it makes sense because there is NO shaft in this demo. Astonishingly, the shaft is not the focus here. WOW
someguy92172 1 year ago
JOHNNY MILLER is just inarticulate. his genius is in feeling, just as it is with many good players. He has trouble completely describing these things
someguy92172 1 year ago
@someguy92172 No im sorry its hard for YOU to understand. Miller clearly states and i quote "you should set up 90 degrees ...the shaft angle to the target line". Explain that MORON. Oh yeah i saw your swing you uploaded on your page, its awful, what are you a 30 handicap? And you just called a PGA teacher of the year and a man who has played in more majors and tour events than you have even watched on tv..a retard. and I' m talking about Wayne not Miller you god damn hack. STFU.
ThePskrilla 1 year ago
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someguy92172 1 year ago
Johnny mentions the setup in about .05 seconds. Johnny talks almost exclusively, in this video, about IMPACT POSITION, not setup. Arrogant wdefrancesco spends most of his time focusing on the setup. Wrong issue, wdefrancesco! No wonder your mind is boggled as you say.
moshady8008 1 year ago
u r really bordering on hack status. i can appreciate that u are clearly not a jm fan, but there is a difference between being skeptical and having a vendetta. it seems most of ur uploads are merely to trash his advice. as it's impossible to know that u can even break 100, but certain that jm has won...how many majors?...i will certainly be taking ur advice over his. here, JM was talking about the impact position, not the setup. don't say it's annoying to listen to him if u didn't listen.
bohemian1905 1 year ago
@bohemian1905 miller did two things. He criticized mickelson for setting up with his hands behind the ball, and he stated that if anyone retuned the shaft to 90 degrees at impact they would drive it great. I showed hogan and nicklaus at setup,then made the comment that perhaps his advice was a bit simplistic, which I don't think is much of a stretch. Also, you can find my playing resume on my website. I can break 100.
wdefrancesco 1 year ago
miller, like most instructors and students of the golf swing, is prone to projecting his keys/problems onto other players when he breaks down a golf swing.maybe the 90 degree rule for him was the key to him being a great driver of the ball, which he was, but that doesn't mean it has to work for someone else.every player has different little checks to maintain their form but what makes a good teacher is someone that can seperate themselves from the student. johnny's just suggesting something here
rdub1050 1 year ago
I think Miller's right.
Obg11111 1 year ago
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ThePskrilla 1 year ago
Johnny is mainly talking about the impact position! "Get it BACK to 90 degrees," he says. I don't think he really cares how they setup to the ball, whether the hands are behind or in even with the ball. I do laugh at some of the things he says while commentating. Like, "that sounded 2 groves low to me, huh, Rog"..haha. 2 Groves exactly? lol. I do however think that this is a really good tip he gives here, especially since accuracy was the strength of his game.
bobbypaulb 1 year ago
kidding yourself again. Johnnys dead right. Whats wrong with you!!!!!!!!!! oooh the camera angle is off..etc its you that is making stuff up! how many majors you won dude?
hardyhardhor 1 year ago
@hardyhardhor great. Did you try Johnny's advice? I'm sure you're driving it great by now. Just get that shaft 90 degrees to the target line. It's so simple. I can't understand why everyone thinks it's so difficult. I take it all back. Johnny, you're the greatest. Just keep telling it like it is.
wdefrancesco 1 year ago
@wdefrancesco What is your problem with Johnny miller. He was one of he greats. Coming down the stretch in majors he used to pepper he flag hole after hole. this guy knows the swing for real no bullshit over analysis and no hero worship of the pros he comments on. He s a leading analyst for one of the biggest broadcasers. Suppose everything hes done is a fluke and you know it all.
hardyhardhor 1 year ago
Nicklaus later adjusted his set up position so that the hands were in front of the ball and the left arm, club shaft and club head were in a straight line as shown in his books. This was a set-up position some players took from Nicklaus. The idea is that it is as a preview of impact.
nldhstn 1 year ago
@nldhstn OK, but you get that (contrary to Johnny's assertion) this has little to do with hitting the ball straight or far, right?
wdefrancesco 1 year ago
@wdefrancesco Well Nicklaus made that adjustment with Grouts help and he was a big hitter then. Snead, Miller and Watson set-up this way.
Hogan's impact position, of course, the hands lead the clubhead. However he set up as you show here, and I think B. Harmon teaches that. Thus that's how Mickleson sets up.
nldhstn 1 year ago
100% right, simplistic commentary/advice is so damaging for the average player.
mrittered 1 year ago
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HabloIrlandes 1 year ago