"Here indeed lies the justest and most plausible objection against a considerable part of metaphysics, that they are not properly a science; but arise either from the fruitless efforts of human vanity, which would penetrate into subjects utterly inaccessible to the understanding, or from the craft of popular superstitions, which, being unable to defend themselves on fair ground, raise these entangling brambles to cover and protect their weakness.”
I'm sorry, but isn't "perfection" a subjective concept?! You can't describe perfection, without a basis for a desirable description, for an achieved perfection. Being that I believe that it is subjective in concept, your argument is pointless.
oh and if God exist then free will isn't real because at the end of the day ur prayer will either be by chance,agree with god's will or it won't in each case God's gonna do what he wants so it doesn't matter if u pray to this existing deity
If God is so perfect why is there a devil if he knew that it would mess everything up for humans his beloved creations either he doesn't care or doesn't exist
@Metallimeister God doesn't ask for money ,he doesn't need your money ,he just wants you to show that money doesn't mean the world to you and if your willing to part with it to help the less fortunate and use it to spread the word of God he would bless you more. nevertheless he blesses you regardless.
The idea of perfection is simply based on the observation we have flaws. perfection is just a word to describe a state where these flaws aren't present.
You're cute, but your cuteness wears thin in about 20 seconds. It sounds like you're in love with the sound of your voice. How much time do you spend looking in the mirror?
1st: Only imperfect beings can create the concept of perfection. Only because we have flaws and commit mistakes was there a necessity to idealize something or someone who would surpasse those flaws. (sorry my english)
2nd: The bible clearly states on numerous passages that God promises perfection to all who obey his word. So how can you say that there can only be one perfect being?
There are too many fallacies in this. Too many projections and subjective concepts. I think you need to consider the question closer, sir. But before you do, I suggest you look up Plato's Theory of Forms and its rebuttals from Aristotle. Then you'll be on the right path to consider this properly.
“We could not even have come up with the concept of perfect”, yet you can sit there for 4 minutes and lecture on it? Makes sense. All-knowing but no personality doesn’t make sense? The computer. Now im not saying that it’s all knowing, Im saying it has knowledge without a personality. So why couldn’t it be possible? “We already KNOW two conscience being can’t be exactly alike” really? You know this how? There must be a comparison? Must there be Hate for there to be love?
The flaw in your logic is at 3:22. Two or more perfect beings can exist and have different personalities, for there are more ways than one to be perfect. For example, one being may like apple pie and another may like cherry pie. Is one imperfect for not liking the ''perfect" pie? You are also assuming perfect morals, which are a very grey area. The morals of two beings may be different, and yet perfect at the same time. Ladies and gentleman, welcome to polytheism.
it's very noticeable how this person just says things like "we would all agree there is a concept of perfection" (1:20) yet doesn't ever refer to any other credible means for his information. Who is the WE, i don't agree with the idea of perfection, neither does mr ministryman because by his own admission in the video it's a concept!!
Ok firstly, this is just a watered down version of Plato's theory of forms, but funnily enough he didn't relate it at all to any god. In fact, this serves as absolutely NO proof for God. Your evidence (ie. the universal perception of perfection) is subjective and is thus not legitimate. But since you must accept this physical realm as real to believe your own argument, you must also accept empirical evidence. Since religion has no empirical support, your religious belief is flawed.
but wait. you said we can only come up with the concept of perfection because we are imperfect. and if perfection is god. then that means god is a concept. (on another note: geeze. i do more thinking here than i do at school.)
Oh my! just because we are imperfect we can't come up with the concept of perfection? I pity the christian apologetics. their arguments are getting quite weak. Read the bible...does that sound like a perfect God to you?
So you appear to be saying that your god is a weak slave, trapped in its existence?
Hmmm...Reminds me of someone...
See...If you know absolutely how all things will pass across all eternity then you can do nothing to change anything. god has no choice but to go along with it because it's how it has to be.
so? a 2d object can never exist as the thinnest it would go would be an atomic diameter, or even a sheet of electrons, but even that have thickness. we could still pervieve a perfect 2d object in our mind as an object without a width. so we CAN percieve "perfection"
My problem is with the basic premise that perfection exists in a real form. In mathematics, there are numbers that exist, but not in real form (such as sqrt(-1)). I think that perfection is similar to that. It exists as a concept, but not in reality, and therefore has no bearing on this Universe.
It's a neat idea but it breaks down when you try to compare it to existing things. Imagine the perfect pizza. Obviously it would be perfectly delicious and healthy. It should be some sort of infinite pizza that is freely available to anyone that is hungry. And of course it should actually exist.
The point of this video is that if God were real he would be perfect in every way. A fictional character is powerless and thus flawed. Thus a truly perfect being would also have to be real since it wouldn't be perfect if it didn't exist.
I'm simply taking the same logic and applying it to my ideal of a perfect pizza. A pizza can't be real if it doesn't exist. Since I'm describing it as perfect, then where is it?
The perfect stupid exist! being existence a property of perfection, if he wouldn't then he wouldn't be perfect, that would be contradicting the premise, therefore he exist (no the premise is not wrong, god told me).
Perfection is subjective. If you want to posit an absolute objective "perfection" as an abstract, you would have to claim the ability to recognise it, and therefore claim the omnipotence it has for yourself.
Ergo, no human being has the logical justification to claim an ability to concieve "God", much less a knowledge of his existence!
You have just invalidated the very idea of a monotheistic "God" - Congratulations!!
So why would "perfection" create "imperfection" ? ? How do you define "perfection", and isn't it necessarily relevant only in comparison to imperfection? if humans can't even come with concept of perfection (as you stated), then why are you attempting to? How does any of this make sense to you? You're talking in circles.
Ok, where is the manifestation of infinity? The manifestation of non-existence? The manifestation of the Loch Ness Monster? The Christmas Toad? Where's the manifestation of the baby I had with Helen of Troy? Where is the manifestation of the video in which you admit you are an atheist?
If every concept had a manifestation we would be living in every conceivable possibility simultaneously. Other ontological arguments don't work for similar reasons.
So God is perfect, right? That means he cannot possibly improve, right? Then how can he simultaneously be omnipotent, when there is clearly something he cannot do?
Right, so for the concept of perfection to exist, perfection must exist, because concepts can only exist if the concept corresponds to a real thing, the only thing that could be perfect is a god, therefore a god must exist?
Orcs, elves, minotaurs, mermaids, harpies, little green/grey men, vampires, werewolves, the colour octarine, witches, Zeus, Anansi, Captain Pugwash, pixies, etc, must therefore also exist, since concepts can only exist if the concepts correspond to real things... right? Sure.
you really need to stop worrying about your video editing and start worrying about how to not sound like a complete jackass. You need to read other scriptures then the Bible in order to understand perfection.. Go speak with some Hindus, they too, have a belief in a perfect creator.
i can imagine a perfect shish kebab.... therefore we're all chutney
your argument makes about as much sense, you dont even recognize your own special pleading where you exempt your conclusion from your argument own premise.
Perfect is a comparison to flawed human beings. It's really simple.
I can do X, I make mistakes while doing X. I can imagine something that can do X with fewer mistakes. I can imagine something that can do X with no mistakes at all. Simples. Where did the concept of perfection come from? Seriously? You can't figure this one out?
Sorry if that's condesending but this really isn't complicated.
You really think all concepts have to have a reality some place? * How about the concept of absolute nothing (so not only no universe, but no perfect god) * How about the concept of a perfect circle?
Then you assert that perfection must have an existence and thus a personality - why? This is just an extension of man ego again, just like the creation of the idea of god(s) by man.
... not to mention how anyone can consider the universe, or Yahweh's actions perfect!!
The "problem of perfection" is a medieval argument that Catholic Church trashed a lot of time ago. Of course, they knew they were wrong. Why do you think it will work when posted in the XXI century by a poorly educated youtube user?
The "problem of perfection" is a medieval argument Catholic Church went a lot of time ago and, of course, they where wrong. Why do you think it will work when posted in the XXI century by a barely educated youtube user?
Your profile says you are 21, so I assume you at a university somewhere. I would recommend you take a Logic 101 class. Maybe an Epistomology class. If you do, you would need to take another look at this video. If you have taken one already, you should look back through your notes. Just some advice.
"So us [sic] as flawed imperfect beings, we couldn't even have come up with the concept of perfection."
We could come up with A concept of perfection. That concept would not itself be perfect, but I do not see that we could not come up with any concept of perfection.
You say that something that is imperfect could not have an idea of what perfection is. That something needs to be perfect to understand perfection. But, you later go on to talk about what criteria would be classed as perfection. Congratulations on dismantling your own argument.
2) Couldn't have come up with the concept of perfection? You're serious? Something could not look at a flaw, and wonder what the concept would like if it were missing that flaw?
3) Perfection need only be compared with anything which is imperfect.
that shirt is dope, but your argument's premise that imperfect beings can't create perfect concepts is demonstrably false, for instance i CAN conceive of a perfect circle... Your argument is invalid but that is a nice shirt
Why is it, that when theists are arguing for the existence of god, I always get the impression, they want to sell me something, that isn't worth its price?
If there is one thing that it's imperfect, it's our concept of perfection. Disagree? Look at the variances of the concepts of perfection in this comment section alone.
The idea that the existence of our imperfect concepts of perfection being proof that a perfect being must exist suggests....well, welcome to monotheism!
Do you really listen to what you are saying. It is apparently English...I understood every word individually, but put together they are complete gibberish. Nice jump-cuts though...never seen that before...oh, wait, yes I have.
Okay, then if God is perfect, why aren't we perfect? If I uphold myself as the greatest artist of all time but even my parents wouldn't put a painting of mine on their refridgerator, am I a great artist? Is it my paintings' fault that they're not perfect or is it my fault?
Perfection is perfect. Perfection is static. Perfection is boring. There is no way a perfect being can create anything. A perfect creator is imperfect. Emotion is imperfect. Personality is imperfect. You monkeys were not created by anything that is perfect. The only thing that is perfect is nothing. Nothing is the absence of something ^_^ You proved your God can't exist ;D
So you are basically saying that because we are imperfect but can imagine perfection that is proof of God
And that this perfect God of yours must have a personality in order to be perfect.
Here's what I think:
I personally cannot imagine a perfect God. That is therefore proof that he does not exist?
And second:
God having a personality negates God being perfect. Our personality IS the sum of our quirks and minor flaws that makes us human. If God has a personality he is NOT perfect.
Counter example: There is no such thing as a cube. We can approximate a cube, but it's never precisely N x N x N. So, logically, there must be an exactly cubical thing somewhere out there that we've all been exposed to at some point in our lives. I say we ask for a research grant to go look for it.
Also:
What IS perfection?
Why does existing make something more perfect?
Why is a personality "better" than a non-personality?
Isn't this just the ontological argument all over again?
Failed at the first hurdle - not every concept has a manifestation. . . Lets start with a Circle, or a rectilinear triangle. Mathematical concepts, no manifestation. You may think you've got one, and if your measuring tools are crude enough you may be certain of it, but in reality you don't.
I only got 18 seconds in and its already demonstrably wrong - Should I bother to watch the rest of the video?
I'd say the idea perfection doesn't have to be compared or based on a certain thing. That thing being god.. Because perfection is inexistent and comes from the imagination. It probably came from the idea of imperfection and people striving to be the best they can be. Which is natural for survival. Just an opinion, not a fact. Probably bias given my beliefs. All that stuff.
This is a good video, but it is slightly confusing. Oh by the way you should try to advertise your channel because you have important things to say, but not enough people to hear them.
"Every concept has it's manifestation in some form." So where is Gandalf the Grey manifesting? Where can one find a beaker filled with an ideal gas? How can one build a car that does not experience wind friction like the ones used in elementary physics problems?
Sorry, but humans can come up with concepts things that do not actually exist. Your first premise is no good and thus the rest of your argument is not valid.
@onlylettersand0to9 Well, let's take a look at your examples. Gandalf the Grey is known to be a fictional character and being a fictional character, his manifestation would of course be the fiction itself that the character was created in. As far as your other two examples, notice that you are implying a perfection in each of those instances (perfect "ideal" gas and a car w/ perfect resistance to friction). So now we are back to the concept of perfection, which is what the video is about.
@MrMinistryMan Gandalf they Grey--I'm not sure I'm entirely happy with that answer, but it certainly earns points for cleverness. However, I can counter that a perfect god is manifest--but only manifests as a fictional character.
If the concept of a frictionless car counts as part of the concept of perfection, you are vastly overestimating the difficulty of coming up with the concept of perfection. Physics - bothering with the small details = concept of perfection. Easy as pie!
@MrMinistryMan "Gandalf the Grey is known to be a fictional character and being a fictional character, his manifestation would of course be the fiction itself that the character was created in"
So God's manifestation can be nothing more than fiction. Gotcha.
@NoeLPZC "Gandalf the Grey is known to be a fictional character and being a fictional character, his manifestation would of course be the fiction itself that the character was created in"
To all non-Christians, Jesus is known to be a fictional character. Just as to all non-Hindus, Ganeshu is known to be a fictional character; to all non-Muslims, Allah is known to be a fictional character.
Your logic only works from a very biased and limited perspective.
@MrMinistryMan "Gandalf the Grey is known to be a fictional character and being a fictional character, his manifestation would of course be the fiction itself that the character was created in"
To all non-Christians, Jesus is known to be a fictional character. Just as to all non-Hindus, Ganeshu is known to be a fictional character; to all non-Muslims, Allah is known to be a fictional character.
Your logic only works from a very biased and limited perspective.
@MrMinistryMan What are the basis of your claims at: 0:25 that "ideas come from some kind of comparison that the idea was .. based off, of" also what is the basis of the claim at: 1:12 where you claim "we couldn't have even come up with the concept of perfection."
How do you know these things? There's no logical step in any of those points, they're just baseless claims. Then you make assertions based on those claims, your entire arguement is based on a foundation of baseless claims. Terrible.
But if Gandalf's manifestation doesen't happen because he is known to be fictional, then it follows that God manifests because he is known to be real. That's a circular argument.
@MrMinistryMan exactly. just like perfection (as you define it) isn't verifiably known to exist, either. thus, until proven otherwise, it's also a concept that resides in the realm of fiction. human beings conceived of a place called utopia, yet such a place has never been generally believed to actually exist. it's fictional, just like "perfection", and just like god.
@MrMinistryMan actually, you tounge twist the perspective. it's like making up a name, form a illusional concept of the being then personification the character. its simply, really, it's a myth ^ ^
I'm subscribed and eagerly await. Of course, I'll be at a disadvantage evaluating God's actions with my frail human reasoning, but I'll try to be open minded. Thanks for your efforts and intentions though, I appreciate it.
@BigIdeaSeeker Well of course all of us are at a disadvantage when trying to use our finite minds to contemplate the possibilities of the infinite. This is exactly the reason why a small sect of us have decided to dedicate our lives (and many thousands of dollars lol) getting an education in and continuing our studies in the philosophical, psychological, theological, and scientific. We have a passion for getting as close as we can possibly get with what we have been give to understanding it.
@MrMinistryMan [My final post for the night] When are you planning on replying to the Atheist's frightening question post? I'd like to possibly make my first video reply or at least send a thorough reply in pm. It seems most of the responses you're getting are along the lines of, "You're asking an invalid question," a statement with which I agree. However, as I can see where you're coming from I'd like to perhaps further the dialog. Cheers.
@BigIdeaSeeker I would love to continue the dialog :) And I plan on making the reply tomorrow morning. You are right in that was not where I was coming from. I used that wording merely because I knew how to get the community all excitable. If you come onto the scene all middle of the road and reasonable you don't get much of a response. I wanted to get people's attention before I really brought the REAL issue to the table. I am completely aware of the error in the semantics of the question.
@BigIdeaSeeker Hey, sorry I have yet to post that response. Class work is really piling up for me right now. I have it shot and ready to edit. I just gotta find the time to edit and render. Just wanted to let you know so you didn't think I was lying to you about it the other day.
All of this is explained by the Fall, of course. All that is wrong is our fault and all that is good is God's. You know, on second thought, what is perfect about this god is how well he fits in with the context of bronze age culture, ideology, and history.
He put all this in his perfect book. Read from beginning to end, it's perfectly understandable and perfectly interesting and thus is eagerly read by his followers who all agree on every detail as authoring confusion would be imperfect.
@BigIdeaSeeker Why would you say that authoring confusion would be imperfect? Aren't the most profound and interesting things complex in their nature? And aren't those complex things generally confusing to those who can't contemplate such complexities? So how much more complex and confusing would something that is authored by the perfect being be?
@MrMinistryMan Confusion- Just a reference to I Cor. 14.33. While your comment regarding complexity makes sense, somehow it seems that God, who knows every noxious molecule in the Red Spot of Jupiter, should be able to communicate with his creation in a manner that is clearly understood and not the source of contention among his followers. Especially considering that what he is communicating is direct instruction to his creation.
... And provide Israelite soldiers and priests with the perfect prize of the virgin orphan-daughters of those the genocidally destroyed (I know, the Midianites deserved it for their sin, but there was no more perfect punishment), and threatened to have Israelite women's wombs cut open if they don't follow his law...
@BigIdeaSeeker Also, I am not going to get into an argument about Mosaic law over comments (as it's a HUGE biblical concept). Maybe I'll make a video about it in the future. Make sure you subscribe and we can banter about it at a later date :)
...And he gave a perfect law with perfect consequences like stoning children for backtalking their parents, burning pregnant daughters with fetus if they've played the harlot, forcing rape victims to marry their attackers,...
...and he had his perfect world was perfectly destroyed in his perfect flood after he repented over what he had created. Countless perfectly designed species have become extinct in perfect finality. He was perfectly concerned of what men would do with the tower of babel, but is perfectly content, it seems, with today's skyscrapers and satellites...
Oh, my! Where can I meet you dace to face for the longer version? So it seems monotheism b/c perfection will allow for only one. And everything this one god does is perfect. So if it's Jehovah, he had the perfect idea to put to people who knew absolutely no difference between right and wrong in close proximity to the most dangerous object ever in existence...
If the only knowledge we have is that which we sense, and we can't "sense" God as he is an idea in our mind placed there by someone else telling us what "god" is, therefore... :/ Rationalism is silly, try the empiricists. Locke, Berkeley, Hume, Kant..
@HockeyDiane Oh I know the stances that the empiricists take. I choose to stand by a more open minded view that there is a possibility of elements of the universe that are outside of our senses. And sure, maybe we are dreaming. But what is the real application of that view. If we are dreaming then our goal in any discipline of science is essentially to understand how the dream works. And shouldn't the atheist be more open to the spiritual realm if all this could be a dream anyway?
Nonono, don't get caught in Descartes. He's a fool. God and math are not innate ideas, nothing is innate. You can fool yourself at any point, in fact, how do you know you aren't dreaming? We constantly "check" reality. Did you see that? Did you hear that? All of our knowledge comes to us through sensation. We form our reality through our senses, if you removed your senses, your reality would be much different than it is now. ....(cont.)
This is an imperfect example from an imperfect person about perfection that no other imperfect person could perceive. How could one understand perfection from an imperfect mind?
@Mike10four Well of course we will never come to a complete understanding of perfection. I mean, I say that perfect knowledge would translate into being all knowing, but do I know what it's like to be all knowing? Of course not. I can just deduce based on the gift of reasoning that we HAVE been given that having perfect knowledge would mean being all knowing. We have some capacity as imperfect beings to reason and contemplate the basics of these concepts.
our universe cant exist without certain degrees of randomness and imperfection. otherwise, the universe would not have the shape an characteristics that it does. if god is so magnificent and powerful, he must be quite lazy to spend such little effort on dictating his truths. if god can manufacture a universe, why can he not write a coherent and reliable holy book?
@cheweykev Well we are going to be talking about Creation of this universe today. Also, I'd say that the Bible is extremely coherent and reliable. I say that because all of the philosophy that I am using here to explain the existence of an "ultimate being" lines up perfectly and consistently with the accounts of the Christian Bible. It's just that people have a much easier time accepting philosophy that is reasoned by the power of man than a book that is claimed to have been inspired by God.
two perfect beings cannot exist because they can only be seperate if there is a difference between them. and if there is a difference, one has something the other does not, making the lesser imperfect. :)
"Here indeed lies the justest and most plausible objection against a considerable part of metaphysics, that they are not properly a science; but arise either from the fruitless efforts of human vanity, which would penetrate into subjects utterly inaccessible to the understanding, or from the craft of popular superstitions, which, being unable to defend themselves on fair ground, raise these entangling brambles to cover and protect their weakness.”
mattdrobinson1 3 days ago in playlist Uploaded videos
An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding
-David Hume
mattdrobinson1 3 days ago in playlist Uploaded videos
I'm sorry, but isn't "perfection" a subjective concept?! You can't describe perfection, without a basis for a desirable description, for an achieved perfection. Being that I believe that it is subjective in concept, your argument is pointless.
Deamonslayer3001 5 days ago
oh and if God exist then free will isn't real because at the end of the day ur prayer will either be by chance,agree with god's will or it won't in each case God's gonna do what he wants so it doesn't matter if u pray to this existing deity
Weridly 2 weeks ago in playlist Philosophical Gospel
If God is so perfect why is there a devil if he knew that it would mess everything up for humans his beloved creations either he doesn't care or doesn't exist
Weridly 2 weeks ago in playlist Philosophical Gospel
"Seeing as we would all agree that there is a concept of perfection in this universe"
I don't agree. The universe could be fundamentally imperfect.
Icomposeme 1 month ago
@Aaronus423 especially not in your spelling.
SlowMoFlip 1 month ago in playlist Philosophical Gospel
God keeps asking for money.... so maybe he does exist...
Metallimeister 1 month ago
@Metallimeister God doesn't ask for money ,he doesn't need your money ,he just wants you to show that money doesn't mean the world to you and if your willing to part with it to help the less fortunate and use it to spread the word of God he would bless you more. nevertheless he blesses you regardless.
chidebiolaful 2 weeks ago
@chidebiolaful Oh yeah...? then why don't all the churches stop collecting money?
Give me a fuckin break.
Metallimeister 2 weeks ago
The idea of perfection is simply based on the observation we have flaws. perfection is just a word to describe a state where these flaws aren't present.
MrRhyssteele 1 month ago
Also, I see you receive cash for sponsorship links. You'll be the perfect televangelist. MONEY! GET the MONEY!
scudder99 2 months ago 2
You're cute, but your cuteness wears thin in about 20 seconds. It sounds like you're in love with the sound of your voice. How much time do you spend looking in the mirror?
scudder99 2 months ago
1st: Only imperfect beings can create the concept of perfection. Only because we have flaws and commit mistakes was there a necessity to idealize something or someone who would surpasse those flaws. (sorry my english)
2nd: The bible clearly states on numerous passages that God promises perfection to all who obey his word. So how can you say that there can only be one perfect being?
hptroncao91 2 months ago
@hptroncao91 But it's all meaningless if the bible is just fictional text. Just like all other religions that claim to be perfect truth.
Not one religion can say that they are the absolute truth because then they have to prove that all the others are lies.
Metallimeister 2 weeks ago
I acknowledge that perfection cannot come from imperfection. But how can imperfection come from perfection if perfection is, in fact, perfection?
PachucoDesigns 2 months ago
There are too many fallacies in this. Too many projections and subjective concepts. I think you need to consider the question closer, sir. But before you do, I suggest you look up Plato's Theory of Forms and its rebuttals from Aristotle. Then you'll be on the right path to consider this properly.
PachucoDesigns 2 months ago
“We could not even have come up with the concept of perfect”, yet you can sit there for 4 minutes and lecture on it? Makes sense. All-knowing but no personality doesn’t make sense? The computer. Now im not saying that it’s all knowing, Im saying it has knowledge without a personality. So why couldn’t it be possible? “We already KNOW two conscience being can’t be exactly alike” really? You know this how? There must be a comparison? Must there be Hate for there to be love?
Angelrulesss 2 months ago in playlist Philosophical Gospel
The flaw in your logic is at 3:22. Two or more perfect beings can exist and have different personalities, for there are more ways than one to be perfect. For example, one being may like apple pie and another may like cherry pie. Is one imperfect for not liking the ''perfect" pie? You are also assuming perfect morals, which are a very grey area. The morals of two beings may be different, and yet perfect at the same time. Ladies and gentleman, welcome to polytheism.
Fourmalletz 2 months ago
@Fourmalletz Which is exactly why perfection is an abstract concept. It has no basis in reality, nor in any concept we perceive to be reality.
PachucoDesigns 2 months ago
it's very noticeable how this person just says things like "we would all agree there is a concept of perfection" (1:20) yet doesn't ever refer to any other credible means for his information. Who is the WE, i don't agree with the idea of perfection, neither does mr ministryman because by his own admission in the video it's a concept!!
AvoDJ 2 months ago
or that our personality is what makes us not perfiect.... so the perfiect "thing" wouln't have a personality
monkeyman904 2 months ago
well you failed
looseendsful 2 months ago
Ok firstly, this is just a watered down version of Plato's theory of forms, but funnily enough he didn't relate it at all to any god. In fact, this serves as absolutely NO proof for God. Your evidence (ie. the universal perception of perfection) is subjective and is thus not legitimate. But since you must accept this physical realm as real to believe your own argument, you must also accept empirical evidence. Since religion has no empirical support, your religious belief is flawed.
dragontype123 2 months ago in playlist Philosophical Gospel
but wait. you said we can only come up with the concept of perfection because we are imperfect. and if perfection is god. then that means god is a concept. (on another note: geeze. i do more thinking here than i do at school.)
boredumking 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
Oh my! just because we are imperfect we can't come up with the concept of perfection? I pity the christian apologetics. their arguments are getting quite weak. Read the bible...does that sound like a perfect God to you?
chasingimagination1 2 months ago
Also, Magic must exist. All concepts are inspired by something, and we clearly aren't magical, so what inspired Magic?
mchikos 2 months ago in playlist Philosophical Gospel
@mchikos illusion. the appearence of magic, invisibilty.
TheDancinDoggeh 2 months ago
1. I believe there is perfect argument against this.
2. An intrinsic quality of something being perfect is it's existence.
3. Ergo, thus, therefore, this argument exists QED.
mchikos 2 months ago in playlist Philosophical Gospel
So you appear to be saying that your god is a weak slave, trapped in its existence?
Hmmm...Reminds me of someone...
See...If you know absolutely how all things will pass across all eternity then you can do nothing to change anything. god has no choice but to go along with it because it's how it has to be.
A pointless entity with a pointless existence.
Again....That reminds me...
MrLarryDeath 2 months ago
so? a 2d object can never exist as the thinnest it would go would be an atomic diameter, or even a sheet of electrons, but even that have thickness. we could still pervieve a perfect 2d object in our mind as an object without a width. so we CAN percieve "perfection"
72dew 3 months ago in playlist More videos from MrMinistryMan
My problem is with the basic premise that perfection exists in a real form. In mathematics, there are numbers that exist, but not in real form (such as sqrt(-1)). I think that perfection is similar to that. It exists as a concept, but not in reality, and therefore has no bearing on this Universe.
phantomzettavirus 3 months ago
Alone->no sex->imperfect
MichaelTGrooff 3 months ago
Comment removed
MichaelTGrooff 3 months ago
why so many dislikes??? this rocks :)
mpw19962001 3 months ago
It's a neat idea but it breaks down when you try to compare it to existing things. Imagine the perfect pizza. Obviously it would be perfectly delicious and healthy. It should be some sort of infinite pizza that is freely available to anyone that is hungry. And of course it should actually exist.
So where's my magic pizza?
DrAmazing 3 months ago in playlist More videos from MrMinistryMan
@DrAmazing there is no magic pizza..that's a material thing...god COULD make a magic pizza though...but why would he do something so stupid?
god DID fill the boat's with fish and provided enough bread for the people though...sorry you were not there though...I guess you don't believe then.
dragonslayerED30 2 months ago
@dragonslayerED30
The point of this video is that if God were real he would be perfect in every way. A fictional character is powerless and thus flawed. Thus a truly perfect being would also have to be real since it wouldn't be perfect if it didn't exist.
I'm simply taking the same logic and applying it to my ideal of a perfect pizza. A pizza can't be real if it doesn't exist. Since I'm describing it as perfect, then where is it?
DrAmazing 2 months ago
Here you go: watch?v=eAhfZUZiwSE
An imperfect human creating something perfect.
Here's another one: watch?v=LhVpY7LUFCI
Have a nice day.
Stevarious 4 months ago in playlist More videos from MrMinistryMan
The perfect stupid exist! being existence a property of perfection, if he wouldn't then he wouldn't be perfect, that would be contradicting the premise, therefore he exist (no the premise is not wrong, god told me).
u7ht67 4 months ago
you haven't accurately..ah eff it. too many illogical assumptions and pronouncements in this video
cherrydog9 4 months ago 2
Perfection is subjective. If you want to posit an absolute objective "perfection" as an abstract, you would have to claim the ability to recognise it, and therefore claim the omnipotence it has for yourself.
Ergo, no human being has the logical justification to claim an ability to concieve "God", much less a knowledge of his existence!
You have just invalidated the very idea of a monotheistic "God" - Congratulations!!
Tobytrim 5 months ago
maybe everything is perfect? that makes way more sense then what your saying... not a single logical fallacy involved
asdfjkl67387 6 months ago
So why would "perfection" create "imperfection" ? ? How do you define "perfection", and isn't it necessarily relevant only in comparison to imperfection? if humans can't even come with concept of perfection (as you stated), then why are you attempting to? How does any of this make sense to you? You're talking in circles.
MrKeenoRossi 7 months ago
Ok, where is the manifestation of infinity? The manifestation of non-existence? The manifestation of the Loch Ness Monster? The Christmas Toad? Where's the manifestation of the baby I had with Helen of Troy? Where is the manifestation of the video in which you admit you are an atheist?
If every concept had a manifestation we would be living in every conceivable possibility simultaneously. Other ontological arguments don't work for similar reasons.
Hufflewaffle 8 months ago
I did not have to even watch this before I Thumbed it down knowing in my heart that this guy is talking complete and utter bollocks.
TacticalAtheist 8 months ago
So God is perfect, right? That means he cannot possibly improve, right? Then how can he simultaneously be omnipotent, when there is clearly something he cannot do?
BassAceReturns 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
What a worthless piece of shit argument for the existence of god.
DjZephy 9 months ago
Right, so for the concept of perfection to exist, perfection must exist, because concepts can only exist if the concept corresponds to a real thing, the only thing that could be perfect is a god, therefore a god must exist?
Orcs, elves, minotaurs, mermaids, harpies, little green/grey men, vampires, werewolves, the colour octarine, witches, Zeus, Anansi, Captain Pugwash, pixies, etc, must therefore also exist, since concepts can only exist if the concepts correspond to real things... right? Sure.
athywren 9 months ago
You are hoist by your own petard.
Perfect systems, if they create, can only create more perfection.
If I am a creation of god, I am perfect, sin is a myth and relgion goes up in a puff of logic.
Thanks for playing our game, we've got some lovely consolation prizes for you.
lupocephalic 9 months ago
you really need to stop worrying about your video editing and start worrying about how to not sound like a complete jackass. You need to read other scriptures then the Bible in order to understand perfection.. Go speak with some Hindus, they too, have a belief in a perfect creator.
MenacetooSobriety 9 months ago
Terrible clip. Absolutely flawed reasoning throughout. You really didn't think this through at all.
HomageofReason 9 months ago
i can imagine a perfect shish kebab.... therefore we're all chutney
your argument makes about as much sense, you dont even recognize your own special pleading where you exempt your conclusion from your argument own premise.
stupid
tonybuk70 9 months ago
Oh Christians and their imaginary friends and their silly arguments for their unsubstantiated sky wizards. Can you say logical fallacies?
bigboy45454545 9 months ago
Perfect is a comparison to flawed human beings. It's really simple.
I can do X, I make mistakes while doing X. I can imagine something that can do X with fewer mistakes. I can imagine something that can do X with no mistakes at all. Simples. Where did the concept of perfection come from? Seriously? You can't figure this one out?
Sorry if that's condesending but this really isn't complicated.
SamNoble89 9 months ago
In circles we go . . . what a load of horse manure.
EnervatedSociety 9 months ago
You really think all concepts have to have a reality some place? * How about the concept of absolute nothing (so not only no universe, but no perfect god) * How about the concept of a perfect circle?
Then you assert that perfection must have an existence and thus a personality - why? This is just an extension of man ego again, just like the creation of the idea of god(s) by man.
... not to mention how anyone can consider the universe, or Yahweh's actions perfect!!
KylieTasticUK 9 months ago
The "problem of perfection" is a medieval argument that Catholic Church trashed a lot of time ago. Of course, they knew they were wrong. Why do you think it will work when posted in the XXI century by a poorly educated youtube user?
code933k 9 months ago
The "problem of perfection" is a medieval argument Catholic Church went a lot of time ago and, of course, they where wrong. Why do you think it will work when posted in the XXI century by a barely educated youtube user?
code933k 9 months ago
I have 100$ in my wallet.
I imagine i have 200$ as that is better then to have 100$
Question: Do i have 200$ in my wallet because i can imagine it?
MrMinistryMan, your reasoning and logic is flawed so deeply im almost speechless when i see this.
ecidemon1 9 months ago
Hey fucker - If God were perfect then he would have...
Wait. Never mind, My Ramen is ready, I'll try again later
hevyAccel 9 months ago
Your profile says you are 21, so I assume you at a university somewhere. I would recommend you take a Logic 101 class. Maybe an Epistomology class. If you do, you would need to take another look at this video. If you have taken one already, you should look back through your notes. Just some advice.
ProportionalResponse 9 months ago
"Perfection cannot be created by imperfection."
Fair enough.
"So us [sic] as flawed imperfect beings, we couldn't even have come up with the concept of perfection."
We could come up with A concept of perfection. That concept would not itself be perfect, but I do not see that we could not come up with any concept of perfection.
djhalling 9 months ago
You say that something that is imperfect could not have an idea of what perfection is. That something needs to be perfect to understand perfection. But, you later go on to talk about what criteria would be classed as perfection. Congratulations on dismantling your own argument.
Pushtrak 9 months ago
1) Yes. Then you are obviously clueless.
2) Couldn't have come up with the concept of perfection? You're serious? Something could not look at a flaw, and wonder what the concept would like if it were missing that flaw?
3) Perfection need only be compared with anything which is imperfect.
mordinvan 9 months ago
define cold. define vacuum
MrZeroTerrorRide 9 months ago
that shirt is dope, but your argument's premise that imperfect beings can't create perfect concepts is demonstrably false, for instance i CAN conceive of a perfect circle... Your argument is invalid but that is a nice shirt
xMarchx31stx 9 months ago
Why is it, that when theists are arguing for the existence of god, I always get the impression, they want to sell me something, that isn't worth its price?
leungchaan 9 months ago
define perfect, please?
MrZeroTerrorRide 9 months ago
That is some SERIOUSLY flawed logic.
vicious3579 9 months ago
If there is one thing that it's imperfect, it's our concept of perfection. Disagree? Look at the variances of the concepts of perfection in this comment section alone.
The idea that the existence of our imperfect concepts of perfection being proof that a perfect being must exist suggests....well, welcome to monotheism!
sevlevboss 9 months ago
Do you really listen to what you are saying. It is apparently English...I understood every word individually, but put together they are complete gibberish. Nice jump-cuts though...never seen that before...oh, wait, yes I have.
sonvolt48 9 months ago
A perfect being created imperfection??? You make some lame leaps of illogic, dude.
Phoobar1 9 months ago
Let me get this straight.
God is perfection.
If God can conceive of a being more perfect than himself then he is not perfection.
If God cannot conceive of a being more perfect than himself then he is not perfection.
Therefore perfection does not exist.
Since God is perfection and perfection does not exist, God does not exist.
God^2+1=0
fooltard 9 months ago
humans can't even come up with the idea of perfection? wow, that is the epitome of a baseless claim. what complete and utter nonsense.
BillKiernan 9 months ago
Okay, then if God is perfect, why aren't we perfect? If I uphold myself as the greatest artist of all time but even my parents wouldn't put a painting of mine on their refridgerator, am I a great artist? Is it my paintings' fault that they're not perfect or is it my fault?
RadarKat73080 9 months ago
Perfection is perfect. Perfection is static. Perfection is boring. There is no way a perfect being can create anything. A perfect creator is imperfect. Emotion is imperfect. Personality is imperfect. You monkeys were not created by anything that is perfect. The only thing that is perfect is nothing. Nothing is the absence of something ^_^ You proved your God can't exist ;D
PinkProgram 9 months ago
So you are basically saying that because we are imperfect but can imagine perfection that is proof of God
And that this perfect God of yours must have a personality in order to be perfect.
Here's what I think:
I personally cannot imagine a perfect God. That is therefore proof that he does not exist?
And second:
God having a personality negates God being perfect. Our personality IS the sum of our quirks and minor flaws that makes us human. If God has a personality he is NOT perfect.
itsjustameme 9 months ago
LOL Nietzsche is dead poster. That shows how much you know about his philosophy.
ThaGMan51 9 months ago
wow.. thats an awful lot of assumptions about 'perfection'
brianestoll 9 months ago
Am i am going to sub to you because I don't agree with anything you say. Anyways good presentation.
Unworshipediety 9 months ago
He doesn't seem much of a perfect communicator. :P
wimsweden 9 months ago
The Concept of Perfection is flawed and it was conceived by flawed beings.
There goes your argument in a puff of logic.
PeterThenn 9 months ago
I consider myself unperfect.
About 2:20 I realized you were describing God.r
Well done.
kagamers 9 months ago
Counter example: There is no such thing as a cube. We can approximate a cube, but it's never precisely N x N x N. So, logically, there must be an exactly cubical thing somewhere out there that we've all been exposed to at some point in our lives. I say we ask for a research grant to go look for it.
Also:
What IS perfection?
Why does existing make something more perfect?
Why is a personality "better" than a non-personality?
Isn't this just the ontological argument all over again?
Venaloid 9 months ago 19
Failed at the first hurdle - not every concept has a manifestation. . . Lets start with a Circle, or a rectilinear triangle. Mathematical concepts, no manifestation. You may think you've got one, and if your measuring tools are crude enough you may be certain of it, but in reality you don't.
I only got 18 seconds in and its already demonstrably wrong - Should I bother to watch the rest of the video?
AjnaKotobide 9 months ago 6
I'd say the idea perfection doesn't have to be compared or based on a certain thing. That thing being god.. Because perfection is inexistent and comes from the imagination. It probably came from the idea of imperfection and people striving to be the best they can be. Which is natural for survival. Just an opinion, not a fact. Probably bias given my beliefs. All that stuff.
Mompy0yeh 10 months ago
This is a good video, but it is slightly confusing. Oh by the way you should try to advertise your channel because you have important things to say, but not enough people to hear them.
ChildOfGodDramaQueen 10 months ago
"Every concept has it's manifestation in some form." So where is Gandalf the Grey manifesting? Where can one find a beaker filled with an ideal gas? How can one build a car that does not experience wind friction like the ones used in elementary physics problems?
Sorry, but humans can come up with concepts things that do not actually exist. Your first premise is no good and thus the rest of your argument is not valid.
onlylettersand0to9 10 months ago 11
@onlylettersand0to9 Well, let's take a look at your examples. Gandalf the Grey is known to be a fictional character and being a fictional character, his manifestation would of course be the fiction itself that the character was created in. As far as your other two examples, notice that you are implying a perfection in each of those instances (perfect "ideal" gas and a car w/ perfect resistance to friction). So now we are back to the concept of perfection, which is what the video is about.
MrMinistryMan 10 months ago
@MrMinistryMan Gandalf they Grey--I'm not sure I'm entirely happy with that answer, but it certainly earns points for cleverness. However, I can counter that a perfect god is manifest--but only manifests as a fictional character.
If the concept of a frictionless car counts as part of the concept of perfection, you are vastly overestimating the difficulty of coming up with the concept of perfection. Physics - bothering with the small details = concept of perfection. Easy as pie!
onlylettersand0to9 10 months ago
@MrMinistryMan "Gandalf the Grey is known to be a fictional character and being a fictional character, his manifestation would of course be the fiction itself that the character was created in"
So God's manifestation can be nothing more than fiction. Gotcha.
NoeLPZC 9 months ago
@NoeLPZC "Gandalf the Grey is known to be a fictional character and being a fictional character, his manifestation would of course be the fiction itself that the character was created in"
To all non-Christians, Jesus is known to be a fictional character. Just as to all non-Hindus, Ganeshu is known to be a fictional character; to all non-Muslims, Allah is known to be a fictional character.
Your logic only works from a very biased and limited perspective.
TheHigherVoltage 9 months ago
@TheHigherVoltage Talking to the wrong guy buddy. Your comment should have been addressed at MrMinistryMan.
NoeLPZC 9 months ago
@NoeLPZC oops. thanks.
TheHigherVoltage 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@MrMinistryMan "his manifestation would of course be the fiction itself that the character was created in" just like the God of the Bible.
BillKiernan 9 months ago
@MrMinistryMan "Gandalf the Grey is known to be a fictional character and being a fictional character, his manifestation would of course be the fiction itself that the character was created in"
To all non-Christians, Jesus is known to be a fictional character. Just as to all non-Hindus, Ganeshu is known to be a fictional character; to all non-Muslims, Allah is known to be a fictional character.
Your logic only works from a very biased and limited perspective.
TheHigherVoltage 9 months ago
@MrMinistryMan What are the basis of your claims at: 0:25 that "ideas come from some kind of comparison that the idea was .. based off, of" also what is the basis of the claim at: 1:12 where you claim "we couldn't have even come up with the concept of perfection."
How do you know these things? There's no logical step in any of those points, they're just baseless claims. Then you make assertions based on those claims, your entire arguement is based on a foundation of baseless claims. Terrible.
1Glib 9 months ago
@MrMinistryMan
But if Gandalf's manifestation doesen't happen because he is known to be fictional, then it follows that God manifests because he is known to be real. That's a circular argument.
mandangalo18 9 months ago
@MrMinistryMan exactly. just like perfection (as you define it) isn't verifiably known to exist, either. thus, until proven otherwise, it's also a concept that resides in the realm of fiction. human beings conceived of a place called utopia, yet such a place has never been generally believed to actually exist. it's fictional, just like "perfection", and just like god.
022171 9 months ago
@MrMinistryMan "Well, let's take a look at your examples. God is known to be a fictional character" I have corrected your earlier statement.
Your welcome. :)
TacticalAtheist 8 months ago
@MrMinistryMan - What about the 3D line: z=x+y? That's an infinitely long line, where's it's manifestation?
Venaloid 5 months ago
@Venaloid I get your point, but z=x+y is a plane, not a line.
phantomzettavirus 3 months ago
@phantomzettavirus - Aww crap, you're right, lol. Well, there goes my my math education!
Venaloid 3 months ago
@MrMinistryMan actually, you tounge twist the perspective. it's like making up a name, form a illusional concept of the being then personification the character. its simply, really, it's a myth ^ ^
juanlarios666 3 months ago
Perfect aroma, perfect flavor. The perfect plate at Plato's Ideal Cafe! : )
BigIdeaSeeker 11 months ago
I'm subscribed and eagerly await. Of course, I'll be at a disadvantage evaluating God's actions with my frail human reasoning, but I'll try to be open minded. Thanks for your efforts and intentions though, I appreciate it.
BigIdeaSeeker 11 months ago
@BigIdeaSeeker Well of course all of us are at a disadvantage when trying to use our finite minds to contemplate the possibilities of the infinite. This is exactly the reason why a small sect of us have decided to dedicate our lives (and many thousands of dollars lol) getting an education in and continuing our studies in the philosophical, psychological, theological, and scientific. We have a passion for getting as close as we can possibly get with what we have been give to understanding it.
MrMinistryMan 11 months ago
@MrMinistryMan [My final post for the night] When are you planning on replying to the Atheist's frightening question post? I'd like to possibly make my first video reply or at least send a thorough reply in pm. It seems most of the responses you're getting are along the lines of, "You're asking an invalid question," a statement with which I agree. However, as I can see where you're coming from I'd like to perhaps further the dialog. Cheers.
BigIdeaSeeker 11 months ago
@BigIdeaSeeker I would love to continue the dialog :) And I plan on making the reply tomorrow morning. You are right in that was not where I was coming from. I used that wording merely because I knew how to get the community all excitable. If you come onto the scene all middle of the road and reasonable you don't get much of a response. I wanted to get people's attention before I really brought the REAL issue to the table. I am completely aware of the error in the semantics of the question.
MrMinistryMan 11 months ago
@BigIdeaSeeker Hey, sorry I have yet to post that response. Class work is really piling up for me right now. I have it shot and ready to edit. I just gotta find the time to edit and render. Just wanted to let you know so you didn't think I was lying to you about it the other day.
MrMinistryMan 10 months ago
All of this is explained by the Fall, of course. All that is wrong is our fault and all that is good is God's. You know, on second thought, what is perfect about this god is how well he fits in with the context of bronze age culture, ideology, and history.
BigIdeaSeeker 11 months ago
He put all this in his perfect book. Read from beginning to end, it's perfectly understandable and perfectly interesting and thus is eagerly read by his followers who all agree on every detail as authoring confusion would be imperfect.
BigIdeaSeeker 11 months ago
@BigIdeaSeeker Why would you say that authoring confusion would be imperfect? Aren't the most profound and interesting things complex in their nature? And aren't those complex things generally confusing to those who can't contemplate such complexities? So how much more complex and confusing would something that is authored by the perfect being be?
MrMinistryMan 11 months ago
@MrMinistryMan Confusion- Just a reference to I Cor. 14.33. While your comment regarding complexity makes sense, somehow it seems that God, who knows every noxious molecule in the Red Spot of Jupiter, should be able to communicate with his creation in a manner that is clearly understood and not the source of contention among his followers. Especially considering that what he is communicating is direct instruction to his creation.
BigIdeaSeeker 11 months ago
... And provide Israelite soldiers and priests with the perfect prize of the virgin orphan-daughters of those the genocidally destroyed (I know, the Midianites deserved it for their sin, but there was no more perfect punishment), and threatened to have Israelite women's wombs cut open if they don't follow his law...
BigIdeaSeeker 11 months ago
@BigIdeaSeeker Also, I am not going to get into an argument about Mosaic law over comments (as it's a HUGE biblical concept). Maybe I'll make a video about it in the future. Make sure you subscribe and we can banter about it at a later date :)
MrMinistryMan 11 months ago
...And he gave a perfect law with perfect consequences like stoning children for backtalking their parents, burning pregnant daughters with fetus if they've played the harlot, forcing rape victims to marry their attackers,...
BigIdeaSeeker 11 months ago
...and he had his perfect world was perfectly destroyed in his perfect flood after he repented over what he had created. Countless perfectly designed species have become extinct in perfect finality. He was perfectly concerned of what men would do with the tower of babel, but is perfectly content, it seems, with today's skyscrapers and satellites...
BigIdeaSeeker 11 months ago
@BigIdeaSeeker On the idea of a "perfect world" you may want to refer to the point that perfection must exist as a singularity.
MrMinistryMan 11 months ago
Oh, my! Where can I meet you dace to face for the longer version? So it seems monotheism b/c perfection will allow for only one. And everything this one god does is perfect. So if it's Jehovah, he had the perfect idea to put to people who knew absolutely no difference between right and wrong in close proximity to the most dangerous object ever in existence...
BigIdeaSeeker 11 months ago
If the only knowledge we have is that which we sense, and we can't "sense" God as he is an idea in our mind placed there by someone else telling us what "god" is, therefore... :/ Rationalism is silly, try the empiricists. Locke, Berkeley, Hume, Kant..
HockeyDiane 11 months ago
@HockeyDiane Oh I know the stances that the empiricists take. I choose to stand by a more open minded view that there is a possibility of elements of the universe that are outside of our senses. And sure, maybe we are dreaming. But what is the real application of that view. If we are dreaming then our goal in any discipline of science is essentially to understand how the dream works. And shouldn't the atheist be more open to the spiritual realm if all this could be a dream anyway?
MrMinistryMan 11 months ago
Nonono, don't get caught in Descartes. He's a fool. God and math are not innate ideas, nothing is innate. You can fool yourself at any point, in fact, how do you know you aren't dreaming? We constantly "check" reality. Did you see that? Did you hear that? All of our knowledge comes to us through sensation. We form our reality through our senses, if you removed your senses, your reality would be much different than it is now. ....(cont.)
HockeyDiane 11 months ago
ok.i support you
MrChenlei8000 11 months ago
This is an imperfect example from an imperfect person about perfection that no other imperfect person could perceive. How could one understand perfection from an imperfect mind?
Mike10four 11 months ago
@Mike10four Well of course we will never come to a complete understanding of perfection. I mean, I say that perfect knowledge would translate into being all knowing, but do I know what it's like to be all knowing? Of course not. I can just deduce based on the gift of reasoning that we HAVE been given that having perfect knowledge would mean being all knowing. We have some capacity as imperfect beings to reason and contemplate the basics of these concepts.
MrMinistryMan 11 months ago
our universe cant exist without certain degrees of randomness and imperfection. otherwise, the universe would not have the shape an characteristics that it does. if god is so magnificent and powerful, he must be quite lazy to spend such little effort on dictating his truths. if god can manufacture a universe, why can he not write a coherent and reliable holy book?
cheweykev 11 months ago
@cheweykev Well we are going to be talking about Creation of this universe today. Also, I'd say that the Bible is extremely coherent and reliable. I say that because all of the philosophy that I am using here to explain the existence of an "ultimate being" lines up perfectly and consistently with the accounts of the Christian Bible. It's just that people have a much easier time accepting philosophy that is reasoned by the power of man than a book that is claimed to have been inspired by God.
MrMinistryMan 11 months ago
@MrMinistryMan Jesus is LESS real than santa claus lol
CelestialHeretic 11 months ago
@CelestialHeretic it would be awesome if you could provide some solid philosophical backing this stance that you have :)
MrMinistryMan 11 months ago
@CelestialHeretic *backing for this
MrMinistryMan 11 months ago
two perfect beings cannot exist because they can only be seperate if there is a difference between them. and if there is a difference, one has something the other does not, making the lesser imperfect. :)
shmoofoobean44 11 months ago
I wonder where this is leading up to.. :P
mrjonjoseph 11 months ago