i say keep them well in your french or british museums, or by some private buyers in europe. one day soon, we chinese would collect them by ourselves through the means ur ancestor did to china. fair enough?
Dazza is a radical homosexual socialist. He only knows one thing -radical homosexuality. Christian Muslims and Jews hate you! Down with the gay and lesbian mafia! Ha Ha!
Shamelessful westerners,, we will nuke you into hell in future, just for poor people suffered or sufferring in developing cuntries because of you! Hatred will not disappear if you keep your attitudes now.
spoils of war? f*ck 'em, thats part of the price you pay. americans still have everything from yachts (german and french) to hitlers' personal sterling silver/jewish bone silverware set and photo album from WWII. and no you cant have them back
I used to have good impression of france and europe, but now... cos from those recent events that happened between our country China and europe/france, I realised that they are somewhat really biased and self righteous, people please be objective! I admit that China certianly did something wrong in the past, but who didn't?apart from many other controversial arguments, this thing is just so obvious, why can't u just acknowledge ur fault?
the chinese govt. should buy back the art work from the peoples that own them for a set price, that way there is a nice compromise! btw, you cant do accents! lol
well, yes, but if we gave back all the stuff that was stolen over the years to its origonal owners, the world would become chaos, with everyone claiming everything at some point. (although i guess i am mostly talking about land there...) if they want them back, they can buy them right? YSL cant be expected to lose money over stolen goods from an ancient war (although im sure they can afford it)
to be fair this occured over a hundred years ago and their location now has nothing to do with us currently!! if they are being auctioned off then the chinese gov should bid or speak to who ever owns them atm and come to some agreement! if items that had being taken from their country of origin where all returned our museums and many centres of historical knowledge would be in huge turmoil! its stupid but i do feel for china in a way, yet if they want them bronze statues that much then BID!!!!
As you said, the spoils of war, and as such there's precedent either way. Weren't there a lot of goods stolen by the liberating forces of the Allies during WWII that were returned afterwards? Though what is the point of war if you can't take what you want from who you're fighting? They're willing enough to kill you so who cares what they want to keep? This is some rather murky water to be determined by the highest courts. I tend to think that the collectors (YSL) should keep them though.
these art may not be pretty but it is valuable bcos of it's history~ Sentimental value of history~ same thing if your parents gave you certain things from your ancestors and passed it on to you cos of it's history and sentimental value~ it may be ugly too but would you throw it away and treat it as trash? I don't think so...
if i purchased stolen goods! would I have to return them to the rightful ower? yes!! and dependent if they want them returned ! Dumacongsanvn surley you see the difference between commercal products! and art work which was part of the royal summer palace of china! china a bully? 7 countries invadeded china and force the chinese people to smokes opium!!! thats what bully does!!
there is a theory that these artefacts were all in "safekeeping" all those years - would they have survived Mao's Cultural Revolution? Probably not (the "Revolutionaries" - who were in fact thugs - destroyed significant quantities of China's heritage). If they had - would they have survived the Japanese occupation? And so on. China has no automatic right to these things.
Maybe we can combine the two problems with the China art and the bribing to get the kids to stop smoking, and give the priceless art to the smoking kids!
Whether or not the said pieces were in a state of proper condition or not, I think that if a collector paid for them, they should be at the discretion whether or not to return the pieces. I understand that they are important artifacts of Chinese culture, but why does the art have to be in China? I feel like art can be appreciated anywhere it is. I'm sure China has stolen artifacts from other countries, but those countries are probably powerless to reclaim their cultural artifacts...
For a country that counterfeit other nations' products by the billions, why does it not have problems counterfeit the freaking rat and bunny? China do not think that those LV or Chanel knockoffs are someone else's properties or "national treasures"? As masters of replicating, they should have no problems with making fake ones.
Return the original sculptures to China, and you can make your fake ones, go ahead. There are many reproductions of Da Vinci, Picasso and van Gogh out here, as are there chinese sculptures and vase.
You just don't get what national treasure means do you?
LV and Chanel are not singly unique antiques that bear the history and culture of a nation as ancient as China. Those are modern commodities which can be mass produced for a profit. Only reason why these companies are so mad at China is because when a big, ugly LV bag that looks like grocery bags cost $50 to produce but $1000 to the consumers, they feel like they're missing out on making filthy but huge profits out of the vast market in China. Well, Chinese ppl are not stupid.
love you guy and all the reasonable comments here.
Yes, we Chinese paid great attention to this relics,not because of their art value but representation of shamless.
But we know one must keep his eyes forward instead of backwards.
I think the discussion all over the world documented one important thing: Truth is always the same amang all people regardless the nation,the color....
Funny how something gets classified as "national treasures" if they came out of China, but if other nations' items are stolen or copyright violated then its tough luck. You do not fathom other nations have "national treasures" that China have flatout stolen from them? Take your own medicine, China. Viva France. It is about time China sees the bully in itself.
i think these art should be returned to china because these are stolen tresure of china!! would you like your stolen property, returned back too you??
Would the pieces even exist if the Brits/French hadn't taken them? Many valuable pieces of art from China still exist because they weren't there to be destroyed in the cultural revolution. However I think the guy who owns the art now should just leave it to a museum in his will. His heirs get the short end of the stick, but it is a piece of China's history that was luckily saved, and it should be returned to China now that they won't destroy it.
China should be given the option to purcahse the statues for the price paid by the present owner, plus extra for inflation. If they make the purchase, the State responsible for their theft in the 1860s should re-imburse China for the full sum of the theft. After all, what's a few million pounds to the British or French government?
good video. there's a lot of debate over 'ownership' on the internet these days (e.g., the case against pirate bay). perhaps 'ownership' is becoming an obsolete social construct.
I think that China should be able to buy them back from yves saint laurent. Of course, these artworks are from the Chinese culture, which is quite important, but I do think that there is another option. Laurent can donate it but it would probably have his name honored on some plaque with it. If it is taken by the government in some way, either by buying it or accepting them as a donation, it should be kept by the government and NOT sold elsewhere to private owners.
It is a tough decision. I don't think it is fair to ask people who paid for them to give them up for free but since they are selling them perhaps it would be nice of them to offer it to China first up- if china wanted to buy them. BUt then I guess that's not really fair to china if they have to buy something back that was stolen from them. Oh I don't know maybe they should all just say it was a long time ago and move on.
finally, a gathering i might actually be able to get to! hell yeah!!
i agree with c0capop, who thinks that they should be put in a museum, cause that way, everyone can see them and "ooh" and "ahhh" over them and everybody wins.
well, maybe not quite as simple as that, but y'know....
agh,thats a trickey one..well technically they dont belong to them but if they have paid for them then i suppose they are just as entitled to it as who they were stolen from..they probs didnt even think about the fact they were stolen when they got them..if china wants it back so much why dont they just buy it back?but then in a way your saying stealing stuff and selling it back is ok..i give up too much thinking!they can squable between themselves..haha. and damn i wish i lived in manchester! x
the thing is, this isn't an issue that revolves just around these two sculptures. in that era countless great works of art were stolen from the countries of their origin, and while many are now in museums, there are still thousands of pieces in personal collections. should individuals who themselves did not participate in the actual "looting" be asked to give up their prized items?
likewise- should museums that display exhibits of items that were originally stolen from other countries [thinking now particularly of the larger items from, say, egypt or greece] be asked to return them to museums in the places of their origin? think of the massive difference in tourism that swap may make to each place. the issue is so much larger than "who owns it?" should these works of art- brilliant works of art- be in places where they can be viewed and appreciated by the greatest number?
or should they be in a place where they are most relevant to a national culture? where they were made? in the museums of a country that "discovered" or "rescued" them for preservation? it seems like a kind of minor thing at first, but really it's a massively dicey IR issue...
I like the way you have managed to create such a massive debate. I also like how you actively take part in it. :)
Personally I believe that the art should return to China and placed in a public museum where it can be viewed and admired by all. Tricky question though. Congrats,. :)
Well, seeing as there are billions of "stolen" artifacts, picking some to return seems wrong to me. As was said, the current owners paid, therefore they technically are the current owners. BUT, seeing as they're up for auction, selling them to China would seem the logical answer.
The owner (before the auction) said something like I will return the sculptures to china for free if they talk to Dalai ...something like that...
This is utterly stupid... I guess he is trying to help Dalai in some sense...but for most Chinese, this only makes them think "OK, Dalai and those French looters are on one side...".
The china government is so happy exploring this...you see this news everywhere...
There are 12 such sculptures...some were sold in the past ... why all of a sudden
Return them, but where does it end. What about the Egyptian artifacts, the Nazi stolen artifacts and everythig else that has been "stolen" over the centuries. I'm sure that the Dalai Lama would love for China to give back Tibet. Nothing is as simple as give it back.
Well, that's good enough for me. Tell your brother that the saying came from a French anarchist called Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, in 1840 (Thanks, Wikipedia.). Douglas Adams has a line in Hitchhiker's Guide that goes, ""look, property is theft, right? Therefore theft is property." By that light, the thief owns the art. Hmmm.
pwned! Yes. I'm lazy.You called me out. I think they should go back to China. The news is that they've sold for £28M. I agree w/ Jackie Chan: "They remain looted items, no matter whom they were sold to. It was looting yesterday. It is still looting today." (Yes... I always take my cues on moral issues from movie stars. I am that shallow.)
Now... let's move on to the Elgin Marbles and the looted Nazi art that is held by the British Museum.
I love the bareface cheek of China to complain about looted relics being returned, but surely if this were to happen it would follow suit that China returns everything it has stolen to its previous owners...
Does that count for only possessions or stolen land as well??
I think we should steer clear of land at this point, we get into a far more complicated debate if we do that. But I agree, I am sure there are museums in china that contain artifacts that might be considered to have a tarnished history.
Fair point, we all know China isn't going to budge on that matter...as far as the stolen relics go i would like to see them returned to the chinese people who properly appreciate their significance, more than some collector who has them 'just because he could'. Unfortunately they don't have a leg to stand on, the artefacts are staying with the current owner, until they are sold at least. 31 million euros they went for wasn't it?
I think they should be available to the public; as in, everyone should be able to view 'em, as it is cultural heritage. Now, I don't really care about where they're kept; any museum would do.
The current chinese communist government overthrew the old emporers, who actually owned the statues. in this way, they dont have a claim to it either.
If china wants them back so badly, pay for them. It is afterall an auction.
This reminds me of another issue regarding "art" from another country: Greece. If the "collecting" of these pieces from China are wrong then it could also be argued that all of the parts of the Parthenon Frieze should be returned to Greece.
The Frieze is another example of a piece of artwork that was taken from it's home country during a time of war and it is also being fought to return these pieces to Greece as we speak. Although, I must admit I don't think the British Museum will be giving up their hold on them anytime soon ;-)
My personal viewpoint is: would all of these pieces still be around if they hadn't been collected by people and protected as art within their homes/museums? I think not... perhaps things like this happen for a reason. I think China should be happy that such beautiful pieces of artwork created by talented Chinese artists still exist. Can't we just all get along? haha.
very good points, one of the video responses talks about the same thing. A nice philosophy, but i don't think the chinese would be too happy about it. either way, someone looses out
You can't make everyone happy no matter what happens. I think the only way that each of them would get anything out of it is if YSL's partner sold the pieces to two museums (one in China, one somewhere else) and they shared the cost and the pieces. Kind of like a traveling exhibition... it could work... but no one would agree to it!
Ehh, it was stolen 150 years ago... what's the background in that? Why and how? Did some Chinese have something to do with the stealing? Is that why they're in Westerners' hands now? Because if that's the case, I think it's not stealing. And I think WHOEVER MAINTAINED the artifacts throughout these years have automatically gained the right to keep the artifacts. It's not the matter of stealing. It's the matter of circumstance.
I agree- the art should go back to China. Stealing is stealing... It does make things messy that the statues are owned by private citizens, but yeah... Maybe the government that stole them should buy them back and then donate them back to China? Hmm.
Also randomly, I really like your hair at it's current length. Very handsome, Mr. Jazza!
The art was stolen and belongs to China, not really too ambiguous? The Opium wars were fought so England could trade in opium against Chinas' wishes. In the US most people think it was the other way around(to stop the trade.) Curious how things change.
quite a few people ofchinese decent seem to be commenting on this video without properly listening to me or reading the comments. I say that I believe they should be returned, the vast majority of comments agree and believe they should be returned. I presented this topic to share opinions, whether they be for or against, and maybe come up with a realistic compromise. I would rather my viewers and I were not called 'dumb arses'.
it's ok don't worry, i kinda got annoyed at a group of people commenting and it just ended up falling into your lap. sorry for that.
The thing is, art very rarely belongs to a country. they more often than not belong to private owners and are then donated. The statues have been sold now, I need to find out to whom.
They should be given back for free stolen property is stolen property. My mate had is phone nicked sold on. When the police actually caught the git he had it tooken off him, and given the phone back to my frien :D!!!
Granted hed had three phones through the time it toook!
The point is stolen porperty should be returned to the rightfull owner!?!!!!
(plus we don't wana cause a war for every one underage parent we have they've got one million schooled adults D:)
Ahh, this chinese mystery art seems like a paradox, and an interesting one at that! As for this situation, the one who possesses the art should contact the people who they bought it from, and if those people are deceased, then the chinese will simply have to buy it back, as no one can be found to be responsible. AND if the chinese want it back THAT badly, they will surely see that the art pieces are more valuable than the money required to get it back. Just my 2 pennies.
It should be returned to china at a fair monetary price and not to be auctioned. This is because I personally think that if the goods were not to be stolen then there is a good chance of being destroyed by the cultural revolution. By looking at the art pieces, they still remain in good condition. Such effort should not be ignored and hence I think we should pay not for the pieces themselves but for the services of care provided to them over the years.
The assumption that the relics can be destroyed in cultural revolution does not justify stealing, also by your logic, then we can then say if China was not invaded by foreign forces then there would be no cultural revolution. This is a moral issue, not a just a monetary one.
If there were no invasion then the revolution would unlikely to occur as the Chinese did not realize how weak they were. The humiliation created the moral, social, political foundation enough to end the Qing dynasty, in which forms the new stronger China today. My support for the unconditional return of our national treasure shows that I do not support stealing. However the treasures were kept under good conditions for the last 120 years and should we consider effort of preserving them
Qing Dynasty had accounted for 30% of the world's GDP before invasion. The issue is the invaders had no intention of making China strong, all they cared about at that time was making the Chinese addicted to opium and stealing China's wealth. I think that given the fact France had already gained a great deal of wealth from China, returning the artifacts is the right gesture for the future.
Well, as noble the sentiment of just returning the works or art is, I think it would have to be the current owners desicion to return it. They bought the art, and they did not steal it from china, so they should be allowed to keep it if they so wish.
have you ever been to china? there is a 4 month china exchange program at my school and I'm seriously thinking about going. do you recommend it? My chinese isn't very good yet...
The art situation is a toughy,,. I do think that China should have the paintings, but most likely the man will just auction them off and no one will do anything about it... unless they do....
This reminds me of the Egyptian artifacts taken during the Napoleon's time... I think that some of them were finally given back a couple of years ago.
i think they should og back to china even if it is somthing from a war the war was probably suckish and stealing sucks sooo yeha but the people should get moneye because they paid for them
I believe that every effort should be made to return pieces of a nation's cultural heritage back to the state I recognize the issue that much of these pieces are now individually owned, but some are not. I think the first step ought to be working with organization-owned works (like those in museums) to find way to make both sides happy. Maybe allowing them to return as part of a traveling exhibit or something, because the money lost by these collections would be substantial otherwise.
Continued: A Communist government now wants the treasures of the imperial regime back? Sounds a little hypocritical to me.
Anyway, Yves Sant Laurent's partner should be recompensed in some way, if he does agree to give them back. It would be a nice gesture, but I don't agree that China should have them back.
The Summer Palace was destroyed for a reason. I don't think anyone who commanded the armies enjoyed it - the men who did it themselves probably did, a bit. It wasn't just looting for looting's sake. It sent a message to the Chinese Imperials that they weren't all-powerful and all-knowing. It helped China in some ways, as it led to the fall of the Manchu dynasty, and in others it caused problems. I wonder how many ordinary people in China care that much?
It was done because China tried to resist the British forcing opium trade on it. I doubt many Chinese will agree with you that it helped them. If you check the news, you will find young people in HK protesting at the French embassy and Chinese students in France handing out pamphlets in protest of the auction.
It was done for various reasons, and I agree that the British Opium Trade was wrong, and a terrible reason for starting a war. But equally the Imperial Chinese had their share of the blame.
I didn't quite meaning that it helped Chinese people today, but rather back then. It exposed the Imperial regime as a corrupt, weakened source of power that treated it's subjects with utter disdain and high-handedness.
Return them back to China(to the spouse/descendant of the original artist). They WERE stolen from there, and considering that the people out there paid millions from them means that they won't go starving if the aforementioned things happen.
Here's a scenario that might be the best for all concerned, over the long term:
If someone comes legitimitely into ownership of something like this, they should be allowed to keep it till they die, at which point the item is returned to it's country of origin. It would take a few decades, but slowly items would return to their homes, without any individuals being inconvenienced (although their children would lose out on inheritance, but that's the least important factor)
I think that if the artist's mate decides to sell it after the artist has past away, then its perfectly fine. china doesnt own it. If I make a painting for the white house, and it's looted, but some how returned to my mate after I'm past, then its fine. but then again, it was a gift to them. hmm. it's a toughie.
Plenty of art works were stolen in war and plenty of people were killed - no one constantly apologises for people being killed and no reparations are still being paid back.
However, even if you buy stolen goods in the UK you're required by law to give them back.
However, in this case I believe they should stay in that collection, unless China wants to buy them back. As this would set a precedent around the world and stolen art would have to be given back every which-way.
Why would giving back stolen artwork be so bad? The only result I can see from giving back stolen items is better relations and trust between people worldwide. Weath is not generated because of some lumps of bronze or paint on canvas, but because people assign value to them. I think doing what is right is more important for long term than some short term monetary gains.
But they're in individual collections - not belonging to countries. An individual art collector doesn't represent their country if they're not appointed by their country.
People are always going to assign wealth to these sort of things and asking for this to be removed is idealist and very unlikely to happen.
Why should someone give a very expensive piece of art work up? Like I say, there'd be art and other artefacts flying around constantly going back to where they came from.
Because this case is really an international case, not just for China, but for Greece, Egypt and all countries whose treasures are are looted. I have no problem with people buying art at high prices or displaying at musuems if these works are acquired legitmately, but in this case they are not. The stolen bronze pieces also represents national humliation of China by Western imperialists.
But what I'm saying is a HUGE amount of art WAS stolen. It's on the past. It's over. It's done with.
It's no one's fault today that European countries invaded Asian ones and there is no reason that anyone living today should have to pay for people who have been long dead's mistakes.
Even though you think no one should be responsible for the atrocities their ancestors did to the Asians, that is really up to the Asians and their descendants to decide. I am just trying to point out that European countries could take steps to right the wrongs of the past if they chose to.
Even today, I find European countries still bullying weaker Asian countries, like the invasion of Iraq. Clearly no lesson is learned.
It's similar to that of asking us to apologise for slavery - it's certainly not my fault, nor is it yours. We shouldn't apologise for something we haven't done.
As you'll note, the USA instigated the unlawful war against Iraq and like a puppy the UK backed it up.
I also feel that you're misplacing your anger towards Europeans, whereas perhaps you should look closer to home.
If they are in a private collection, they should be returned. If they are in a museum, they should be allowed to continue on display for a limited period and then returned, with the understanding that the museum will be able to co-operate in future traveling displays of the art, given the guarantee that the objects which were purchased in good faith (I know that's a big assumption) will be displayed for one year in each decade.
I know exactly what you mean about words just rubbing off -- I'm from the States, and whenever I visit my family in Europe, I feel like my entire speech pattern changes. But if I were you, I wouldn't worry about it. It's cute. :-)
it is a tough one. i think that these sculptures should find their way back to China no matter what. They should be donated to china and as a token of appreciation China should offer a small amount of compensation.
i think the statues belong to Yves Saint Laurent's partner. after all he was an art collector and probably spent a lot of money on them therefor, belonged to him and now belong to his family. i personally think that if "authorities in china" wanted to bid on them, they should have the right to. it should be an open sale. if they are being auctioned off, anyone should be able to buy them.
i agree with you that the partner of Yves Saint Laurent, or whomever is in possession of the artifacts at the moment,should return them back to the Chinese government, as goes for the rest of the pieces in other households...but, i also think the present owners should get some compensation as, like you said, they probably paid millions...hmmm. thanks for bringing up such good topics!
You are weird.
stephenyu88 9 months ago
They are not spoils of war. They were stolen! They should be returned to China. ASAP!
WABBITS8 1 year ago
i say keep them well in your french or british museums, or by some private buyers in europe. one day soon, we chinese would collect them by ourselves through the means ur ancestor did to china. fair enough?
simonissheep 1 year ago
Return them to China. But the west has had its head up its own backend for so long their ears are blocked.
I'm European.
Western.
But of a different mindset.
:)
I say so anyway.
ChineseCalligraphy 1 year ago
Art belongs to the world. Just that simple
Domoanksahu 1 year ago
go fuck your dead criminal ancestors...hahahahaha
1UFAkEfe684 1 year ago
of course they belong to china cuz they steal from us and burnt the whole garden!!!jesus
dongdongivan 1 year ago
Dazza is a radical homosexual socialist. He only knows one thing -radical homosexuality. Christian Muslims and Jews hate you! Down with the gay and lesbian mafia! Ha Ha!
tryanjohnson 1 year ago
bbbbiiiigggggggg nnnnooooosssseee
get a nose job
put on your 3d glasses ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,NOW
mbmjson 2 years ago
Shamelessful westerners,, we will nuke you into hell in future, just for poor people suffered or sufferring in developing cuntries because of you! Hatred will not disappear if you keep your attitudes now.
squallgzy 2 years ago
the government should buy the items back from the current owners then give them back to China
beccarmagie 2 years ago
the wests will be so sorry one day if they do not return them back to china.
asia2west 2 years ago
Whoever paid for it owns it.
xfirealchemistx 2 years ago
you said side bar like an american! :D
greenNINJAspam 2 years ago
I love you :)
comeswithasmile 2 years ago
you have far too much spare time aha:)
funny lad though :) xx
burnsybabes 2 years ago
Q/ what do you call this four eyed wanker in this video when he takes his specs off
A/ wanker
gregthegooner 2 years ago
finders keepers! shouldnt they go back to the person's realtives that made the peices?
ominoustom 2 years ago
dosnt matter if thyre stolen
if they paid for the art it's theirs
CovetedRebel 2 years ago
Fail
TheEditingShop 2 years ago
spoils of war? f*ck 'em, thats part of the price you pay. americans still have everything from yachts (german and french) to hitlers' personal sterling silver/jewish bone silverware set and photo album from WWII. and no you cant have them back
PlastikBlakLawnJocky 2 years ago
it not 1860 opium war but the 1900-1901 Eight-Nation Alliance.
blahblah7949 2 years ago
ahaha
lolololl!!11!!!!1!!1
this guy is brill!
i luv him
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
dyweeneb 2 years ago
I used to have good impression of france and europe, but now... cos from those recent events that happened between our country China and europe/france, I realised that they are somewhat really biased and self righteous, people please be objective! I admit that China certianly did something wrong in the past, but who didn't?apart from many other controversial arguments, this thing is just so obvious, why can't u just acknowledge ur fault?
lynne02191 2 years ago
share them :D
HeatProtection 2 years ago
if they those basted could sell negro in Africa, tell me why they cannot sell the two bronzes stolen or robbed from China.
wormxxx 2 years ago
There was an article in the Washington Post about it today, which I was very excited to read :)
notsoplainmissjane 2 years ago
BTW, the diamond on Queen Elizbith's crown belongs to India.
massivetuber 2 years ago
@massivetuber HAHAHAHA!
AsCuteAsThat 1 year ago
The two stuffs should be returned back to CHINA and the illegal owners should be sent to jail for facilitating robbery
bravegavin 2 years ago
hard to say really. I believe in the power of looting your enemy of his stuff but at the same time they oughta be returned because they were stolen
AnAwesomeDuck 2 years ago
the chinese govt. should buy back the art work from the peoples that own them for a set price, that way there is a nice compromise! btw, you cant do accents! lol
shadowwatcher93 2 years ago
well, yes, but if we gave back all the stuff that was stolen over the years to its origonal owners, the world would become chaos, with everyone claiming everything at some point. (although i guess i am mostly talking about land there...) if they want them back, they can buy them right? YSL cant be expected to lose money over stolen goods from an ancient war (although im sure they can afford it)
xoxlightbulbxox 2 years ago
to be fair this occured over a hundred years ago and their location now has nothing to do with us currently!! if they are being auctioned off then the chinese gov should bid or speak to who ever owns them atm and come to some agreement! if items that had being taken from their country of origin where all returned our museums and many centres of historical knowledge would be in huge turmoil! its stupid but i do feel for china in a way, yet if they want them bronze statues that much then BID!!!!
greenpixay 2 years ago
saw on the news that this chinese guy bidded for them, but is refusing to pay. fair does to him tbh,
XxCathy1308xX 2 years ago
As you said, the spoils of war, and as such there's precedent either way. Weren't there a lot of goods stolen by the liberating forces of the Allies during WWII that were returned afterwards? Though what is the point of war if you can't take what you want from who you're fighting? They're willing enough to kill you so who cares what they want to keep? This is some rather murky water to be determined by the highest courts. I tend to think that the collectors (YSL) should keep them though.
reorourke 2 years ago
i have nothing useful to say about this debate, but i must say i don't get art cuz them is some ugly statues.
thedreadpirateranda 2 years ago
these art may not be pretty but it is valuable bcos of it's history~ Sentimental value of history~ same thing if your parents gave you certain things from your ancestors and passed it on to you cos of it's history and sentimental value~ it may be ugly too but would you throw it away and treat it as trash? I don't think so...
rlai2201 2 years ago
Don't we have to give alot of stolen stuff from Egypt back? If we can give it back to
Egypt, why not China?
RaciallyConfused09 2 years ago
if i purchased stolen goods! would I have to return them to the rightful ower? yes!! and dependent if they want them returned ! Dumacongsanvn surley you see the difference between commercal products! and art work which was part of the royal summer palace of china! china a bully? 7 countries invadeded china and force the chinese people to smokes opium!!! thats what bully does!!
scheung07 2 years ago
what a monkey
saimneor 2 years ago
there is a theory that these artefacts were all in "safekeeping" all those years - would they have survived Mao's Cultural Revolution? Probably not (the "Revolutionaries" - who were in fact thugs - destroyed significant quantities of China's heritage). If they had - would they have survived the Japanese occupation? And so on. China has no automatic right to these things.
Marcomanseckisax 2 years ago
is it ok for me to fuck your wife? i mean, it's not like you can satisfy her or anything..
Regicide1990 2 years ago
i like how you say "rat". and how you pronounce ysl's name :)
PemaDolma 2 years ago
Maybe we can combine the two problems with the China art and the bribing to get the kids to stop smoking, and give the priceless art to the smoking kids!
Seriously though, it's chinas. Give it!
SuperSlySamuraiSpy 2 years ago
Whether or not the said pieces were in a state of proper condition or not, I think that if a collector paid for them, they should be at the discretion whether or not to return the pieces. I understand that they are important artifacts of Chinese culture, but why does the art have to be in China? I feel like art can be appreciated anywhere it is. I'm sure China has stolen artifacts from other countries, but those countries are probably powerless to reclaim their cultural artifacts...
auburnlights 2 years ago
I agree ...it seems unfair to steal the art from the collectors; they're not the ones who stole the artwork from China in the first place!
CGmovieproductions 2 years ago
For a country that counterfeit other nations' products by the billions, why does it not have problems counterfeit the freaking rat and bunny? China do not think that those LV or Chanel knockoffs are someone else's properties or "national treasures"? As masters of replicating, they should have no problems with making fake ones.
Dumacongsanvn 2 years ago
Return the original sculptures to China, and you can make your fake ones, go ahead. There are many reproductions of Da Vinci, Picasso and van Gogh out here, as are there chinese sculptures and vase.
You just don't get what national treasure means do you?
jtothex 2 years ago
LV and Chanel are not singly unique antiques that bear the history and culture of a nation as ancient as China. Those are modern commodities which can be mass produced for a profit. Only reason why these companies are so mad at China is because when a big, ugly LV bag that looks like grocery bags cost $50 to produce but $1000 to the consumers, they feel like they're missing out on making filthy but huge profits out of the vast market in China. Well, Chinese ppl are not stupid.
jtothex 2 years ago
do provide an example
Regicide1990 2 years ago
if its up for auction at the moment then its fair game. it was "stolen" but now it is, in a way, legit. china don't be salty!
btw you threw up vice lord at round 25 secs. you gangsterr, you
sihamlovesyou2 2 years ago
I am a commen chinese.
love you guy and all the reasonable comments here.
Yes, we Chinese paid great attention to this relics,not because of their art value but representation of shamless.
But we know one must keep his eyes forward instead of backwards.
I think the discussion all over the world documented one important thing: Truth is always the same amang all people regardless the nation,the color....
One world,one dream!
swyfly1974 2 years ago
tibet/stolen treasure are 2 seprete issues!
scheung07 2 years ago
Funny how something gets classified as "national treasures" if they came out of China, but if other nations' items are stolen or copyright violated then its tough luck. You do not fathom other nations have "national treasures" that China have flatout stolen from them? Take your own medicine, China. Viva France. It is about time China sees the bully in itself.
Dumacongsanvn 2 years ago
i think these art should be returned to china because these are stolen tresure of china!! would you like your stolen property, returned back too you??
scheung07 2 years ago
Would the pieces even exist if the Brits/French hadn't taken them? Many valuable pieces of art from China still exist because they weren't there to be destroyed in the cultural revolution. However I think the guy who owns the art now should just leave it to a museum in his will. His heirs get the short end of the stick, but it is a piece of China's history that was luckily saved, and it should be returned to China now that they won't destroy it.
notsoplainmissjane 2 years ago
i keep seeing this video on my subscriptions section. this is the third time i've seen your video. =P
janitorbud 2 years ago
I think T I B E T problems are more important. Shameless china.
promhero 2 years ago
Here's an uninformed idea.
China should be given the option to purcahse the statues for the price paid by the present owner, plus extra for inflation. If they make the purchase, the State responsible for their theft in the 1860s should re-imburse China for the full sum of the theft. After all, what's a few million pounds to the British or French government?
JoelJoel321 2 years ago
it's the Elgin Marbles all over again!
good video. there's a lot of debate over 'ownership' on the internet these days (e.g., the case against pirate bay). perhaps 'ownership' is becoming an obsolete social construct.
AECSRQ 2 years ago
I think that China should be able to buy them back from yves saint laurent. Of course, these artworks are from the Chinese culture, which is quite important, but I do think that there is another option. Laurent can donate it but it would probably have his name honored on some plaque with it. If it is taken by the government in some way, either by buying it or accepting them as a donation, it should be kept by the government and NOT sold elsewhere to private owners.
TheEpitome0220 2 years ago
It is a tough decision. I don't think it is fair to ask people who paid for them to give them up for free but since they are selling them perhaps it would be nice of them to offer it to China first up- if china wanted to buy them. BUt then I guess that's not really fair to china if they have to buy something back that was stolen from them. Oh I don't know maybe they should all just say it was a long time ago and move on.
blackfeatherprincess 2 years ago
finally, a gathering i might actually be able to get to! hell yeah!!
i agree with c0capop, who thinks that they should be put in a museum, cause that way, everyone can see them and "ooh" and "ahhh" over them and everybody wins.
well, maybe not quite as simple as that, but y'know....
OhNoItsAlice 2 years ago
the ums made my day.
<3
BzzMuffinLlama 2 years ago
The Chinese government can afford to buy these.
asumazilla 2 years ago
agh,thats a trickey one..well technically they dont belong to them but if they have paid for them then i suppose they are just as entitled to it as who they were stolen from..they probs didnt even think about the fact they were stolen when they got them..if china wants it back so much why dont they just buy it back?but then in a way your saying stealing stuff and selling it back is ok..i give up too much thinking!they can squable between themselves..haha. and damn i wish i lived in manchester! x
emilymaezing 2 years ago
the news here talks about it all day long -3- (and im pretty much fed up with it :P)
i think the French shouldnt sell them, instead, i think they can put it in a museum or something.
c0capop 2 years ago
you know what they say, all's fair in love and war. IMO, zey shud stay wit ze frenchman(woman?)
JRocker921 2 years ago
Looks like YSL's partner is short of money LOL
I agree they should be returned to China. I thought handling, selling, buying stolen goods is a crime?
able67 2 years ago
Simple they should be returned to China along with other stolen items. People should not profit from theft either property or land.
yourcamden 2 years ago
dig the glasses =)
the sculptures in question were sold for $65 mil.
the thing is, this isn't an issue that revolves just around these two sculptures. in that era countless great works of art were stolen from the countries of their origin, and while many are now in museums, there are still thousands of pieces in personal collections. should individuals who themselves did not participate in the actual "looting" be asked to give up their prized items?
annafeyt 2 years ago
likewise- should museums that display exhibits of items that were originally stolen from other countries [thinking now particularly of the larger items from, say, egypt or greece] be asked to return them to museums in the places of their origin? think of the massive difference in tourism that swap may make to each place. the issue is so much larger than "who owns it?" should these works of art- brilliant works of art- be in places where they can be viewed and appreciated by the greatest number?
annafeyt 2 years ago
or should they be in a place where they are most relevant to a national culture? where they were made? in the museums of a country that "discovered" or "rescued" them for preservation? it seems like a kind of minor thing at first, but really it's a massively dicey IR issue...
annafeyt 2 years ago
do you have a speech impediment?
jellybeansies 2 years ago
I like the way you have managed to create such a massive debate. I also like how you actively take part in it. :)
Personally I believe that the art should return to China and placed in a public museum where it can be viewed and admired by all. Tricky question though. Congrats,. :)
snozdy 2 years ago
Well, seeing as there are billions of "stolen" artifacts, picking some to return seems wrong to me. As was said, the current owners paid, therefore they technically are the current owners. BUT, seeing as they're up for auction, selling them to China would seem the logical answer.
LuvGlamRock 2 years ago
The owner (before the auction) said something like I will return the sculptures to china for free if they talk to Dalai ...something like that...
This is utterly stupid... I guess he is trying to help Dalai in some sense...but for most Chinese, this only makes them think "OK, Dalai and those French looters are on one side...".
The china government is so happy exploring this...you see this news everywhere...
There are 12 such sculptures...some were sold in the past ... why all of a sudden
logicandfact 2 years ago
these 2 become the focus of all the attention?
coz it is in France, it is related to Tibet.
Once again, China government got what they want.
logicandfact 2 years ago
Return them, but where does it end. What about the Egyptian artifacts, the Nazi stolen artifacts and everythig else that has been "stolen" over the centuries. I'm sure that the Dalai Lama would love for China to give back Tibet. Nothing is as simple as give it back.
DoubleDareLike 2 years ago
Loveyouu too :)
love your glasses btw :)
great video, tis a toughie tbh, hmm i doubt they'd be willing to hand the works of art over. shrugs. but yeah china should get them back
XxCathy1308xX 2 years ago
Technically ownership is theft.
OhMyGawsh77 2 years ago
Technically? What technology are you citing here?
mickeleh 2 years ago
I don't know my brother just told me it was, I thought i would share.
OhMyGawsh77 2 years ago
Well, that's good enough for me. Tell your brother that the saying came from a French anarchist called Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, in 1840 (Thanks, Wikipedia.). Douglas Adams has a line in Hitchhiker's Guide that goes, ""look, property is theft, right? Therefore theft is property." By that light, the thief owns the art. Hmmm.
mickeleh 2 years ago
barbarian gene passes down from generation to generation in French and British....its true.
eightincher8 2 years ago
I am a viking at heart
:P
rhymingwithoranges 2 years ago
I love the questions you pose. But answering them is beyond me.
mickeleh 2 years ago
I doubt this very much!
I accuse you of being lazy
:P
<3
rhymingwithoranges 2 years ago
pwned! Yes. I'm lazy.You called me out. I think they should go back to China. The news is that they've sold for £28M. I agree w/ Jackie Chan: "They remain looted items, no matter whom they were sold to. It was looting yesterday. It is still looting today." (Yes... I always take my cues on moral issues from movie stars. I am that shallow.)
Now... let's move on to the Elgin Marbles and the looted Nazi art that is held by the British Museum.
mickeleh 2 years ago
I love the bareface cheek of China to complain about looted relics being returned, but surely if this were to happen it would follow suit that China returns everything it has stolen to its previous owners...
Does that count for only possessions or stolen land as well??
OrgasmandTea 2 years ago
I think we should steer clear of land at this point, we get into a far more complicated debate if we do that. But I agree, I am sure there are museums in china that contain artifacts that might be considered to have a tarnished history.
rhymingwithoranges 2 years ago
Fair point, we all know China isn't going to budge on that matter...as far as the stolen relics go i would like to see them returned to the chinese people who properly appreciate their significance, more than some collector who has them 'just because he could'. Unfortunately they don't have a leg to stand on, the artefacts are staying with the current owner, until they are sold at least. 31 million euros they went for wasn't it?
OrgasmandTea 2 years ago
I think they should be available to the public; as in, everyone should be able to view 'em, as it is cultural heritage. Now, I don't really care about where they're kept; any museum would do.
helloimthedoc 2 years ago
The current chinese communist government overthrew the old emporers, who actually owned the statues. in this way, they dont have a claim to it either.
If china wants them back so badly, pay for them. It is afterall an auction.
cannonfodder9 2 years ago
Whoever looted them said the British Museum
Exactement! said the French Museum
coollikeyodais 2 years ago
It belongs to China!!
roxehy 2 years ago
China.
scottklaw 2 years ago
I think the sculptures should stay with the guy, he bought them.. and if China wants them China has to pay for them! Lolz.
thechamberpots 2 years ago
yes， we chinese can pay the price but !!!! not the overprice
huruiduan 2 years ago
This reminds me of another issue regarding "art" from another country: Greece. If the "collecting" of these pieces from China are wrong then it could also be argued that all of the parts of the Parthenon Frieze should be returned to Greece.
thenamesmeghan 2 years ago
The Frieze is another example of a piece of artwork that was taken from it's home country during a time of war and it is also being fought to return these pieces to Greece as we speak. Although, I must admit I don't think the British Museum will be giving up their hold on them anytime soon ;-)
thenamesmeghan 2 years ago
My personal viewpoint is: would all of these pieces still be around if they hadn't been collected by people and protected as art within their homes/museums? I think not... perhaps things like this happen for a reason. I think China should be happy that such beautiful pieces of artwork created by talented Chinese artists still exist. Can't we just all get along? haha.
thenamesmeghan 2 years ago
very good points, one of the video responses talks about the same thing. A nice philosophy, but i don't think the chinese would be too happy about it. either way, someone looses out
rhymingwithoranges 2 years ago
You can't make everyone happy no matter what happens. I think the only way that each of them would get anything out of it is if YSL's partner sold the pieces to two museums (one in China, one somewhere else) and they shared the cost and the pieces. Kind of like a traveling exhibition... it could work... but no one would agree to it!
thenamesmeghan 2 years ago
I don't like China- communism.
BreanaMurphy 2 years ago
Really that has nothing to do with the topic.
snozdy 2 years ago
well said
rhymingwithoranges 2 years ago
It was a comment, not a conversation starter.
BreanaMurphy 2 years ago
Ehh, it was stolen 150 years ago... what's the background in that? Why and how? Did some Chinese have something to do with the stealing? Is that why they're in Westerners' hands now? Because if that's the case, I think it's not stealing. And I think WHOEVER MAINTAINED the artifacts throughout these years have automatically gained the right to keep the artifacts. It's not the matter of stealing. It's the matter of circumstance.
mundanelifeof 2 years ago
they were looted from the summer palace in beijing by french forces
rhymingwithoranges 2 years ago
I agree- the art should go back to China. Stealing is stealing... It does make things messy that the statues are owned by private citizens, but yeah... Maybe the government that stole them should buy them back and then donate them back to China? Hmm.
Also randomly, I really like your hair at it's current length. Very handsome, Mr. Jazza!
cloudkicker6000 2 years ago
The art was stolen and belongs to China, not really too ambiguous? The Opium wars were fought so England could trade in opium against Chinas' wishes. In the US most people think it was the other way around(to stop the trade.) Curious how things change.
alloutacash 2 years ago
i think china for sure
mrjohnnylipps 2 years ago
the paintings should go back to China
cjostreich 2 years ago
Most of the artifacts of antiquity have been stolen from somewhere. Its a fact of life.
Agriking 2 years ago
How about some Chinese museum buys them in auction?
GardenOfEros 2 years ago
the way i see it, if people give back the paintings, what's next? " You stole my land centuries ago, give if back". it can't lead to anything good.
toastburntbread 2 years ago
excuse me
it IS the french and the british who stole those two heads alright? it was all stolen by then
read some history books you dumb asses
obviously it should be returned to us
this is so frustrating. it is china's! what do the french need? a time machine to go back and check out who really did the damage?
wooskieng 2 years ago
quite a few people ofchinese decent seem to be commenting on this video without properly listening to me or reading the comments. I say that I believe they should be returned, the vast majority of comments agree and believe they should be returned. I presented this topic to share opinions, whether they be for or against, and maybe come up with a realistic compromise. I would rather my viewers and I were not called 'dumb arses'.
rhymingwithoranges 2 years ago
i'm not directing the dumb ass thing to you jazza sorry
me and my cousin are fans of yours you know
it's just that we understand china may have really bad manner problems or whatever (i'm not from china, i'm from hong kong)
look what the japanese did?! it's just the same isn't it
yves saint laurent is a good man i think because i love his clothes
but his partner is actually blackmailing china in this whole auction thing
honestly. it's too bronze heads that so obvious belongs to china
wooskieng 2 years ago
Stanley Ho from hong kong has already purchased two bronze heads before and donated it to Beijing
won't the french do the same? or do they still have to threaten to boycott china like they did at the first place for olympics?
sorry jazza. i didn't mean to be rude
i'm just honest
wooskieng 2 years ago
it's ok don't worry, i kinda got annoyed at a group of people commenting and it just ended up falling into your lap. sorry for that.
The thing is, art very rarely belongs to a country. they more often than not belong to private owners and are then donated. The statues have been sold now, I need to find out to whom.
rhymingwithoranges 2 years ago
can you find out who the bidder is?
i thought he/she was anonymous
my dad says he wants to know too
btw you got me worried for the whole day. i don't like making people mad.
you're turning more news-oriented. this is fun!
wooskieng 2 years ago
Can we just hit u? HA!
They should be given back for free stolen property is stolen property. My mate had is phone nicked sold on. When the police actually caught the git he had it tooken off him, and given the phone back to my frien :D!!!
Granted hed had three phones through the time it toook!
The point is stolen porperty should be returned to the rightfull owner!?!!!!
(plus we don't wana cause a war for every one underage parent we have they've got one million schooled adults D:)
Keep it up!!
hazeldine016 2 years ago
would that cause a war?
fuck, china's abit touchy innit?
Lindyhops17 2 years ago
i dunno if it would but.....
c'mon....
insane leader, millions of people who listen to him.....
not a good mix, amigo! it'll me a real life team america
haha
hazeldine016 2 years ago
1:36
I wanted him to say I want you to hit me with your best shot.
They should be returned but China should pay if they really want them.
pierreisahotty 2 years ago
I thought he was going to say that too.
imzUnicorn 2 years ago
Ahh, this chinese mystery art seems like a paradox, and an interesting one at that! As for this situation, the one who possesses the art should contact the people who they bought it from, and if those people are deceased, then the chinese will simply have to buy it back, as no one can be found to be responsible. AND if the chinese want it back THAT badly, they will surely see that the art pieces are more valuable than the money required to get it back. Just my 2 pennies.
iunno 2 years ago
i didn't notice the um's till you pointed it out.. hah
philicusfry 2 years ago
and it wasnt thier property to buy.
though they did probably pay alot of money, i think it should go back to the country where it belongs.
miyayochick 2 years ago
i love your 'r's though, they're so adorable
miyayochick 2 years ago
FINDER'S KEEPERS ALL THE WAY!
Dr8trak 2 years ago
It should be returned to china at a fair monetary price and not to be auctioned. This is because I personally think that if the goods were not to be stolen then there is a good chance of being destroyed by the cultural revolution. By looking at the art pieces, they still remain in good condition. Such effort should not be ignored and hence I think we should pay not for the pieces themselves but for the services of care provided to them over the years.
davidchentheman 2 years ago
The assumption that the relics can be destroyed in cultural revolution does not justify stealing, also by your logic, then we can then say if China was not invaded by foreign forces then there would be no cultural revolution. This is a moral issue, not a just a monetary one.
nikkich01 2 years ago
If there were no invasion then the revolution would unlikely to occur as the Chinese did not realize how weak they were. The humiliation created the moral, social, political foundation enough to end the Qing dynasty, in which forms the new stronger China today. My support for the unconditional return of our national treasure shows that I do not support stealing. However the treasures were kept under good conditions for the last 120 years and should we consider effort of preserving them
davidchentheman 2 years ago
Qing Dynasty had accounted for 30% of the world's GDP before invasion. The issue is the invaders had no intention of making China strong, all they cared about at that time was making the Chinese addicted to opium and stealing China's wealth. I think that given the fact France had already gained a great deal of wealth from China, returning the artifacts is the right gesture for the future.
nikkich01 2 years ago
Hmmm... good point in that case the treasure must be returned and the owner must be compensated by western countries whom participated the opium-war.
davidchentheman 2 years ago
then they should go to the guy who owned the fountain. if thats not known then the peopl e who owned it before it was stolen. :)
kooleeo95 2 years ago
Well, as noble the sentiment of just returning the works or art is, I think it would have to be the current owners desicion to return it. They bought the art, and they did not steal it from china, so they should be allowed to keep it if they so wish.
energyxbuper 2 years ago
i like your flat announcer voice. you should do a whole video in that accent haha.
howtoexplode 2 years ago
have you ever been to china? there is a 4 month china exchange program at my school and I'm seriously thinking about going. do you recommend it? My chinese isn't very good yet...
The art situation is a toughy,,. I do think that China should have the paintings, but most likely the man will just auction them off and no one will do anything about it... unless they do....
reallystupid78 2 years ago
what would be the fun in just returning them?
AAFlick 2 years ago
I HAV GLASSES TOO, JAZZA!
and i LOVE your speech peppermint!
Gotta love Jazza :D
xxxwaxxxwaxxx 2 years ago
I believe they should be returned back to China as well.
Ps. your voice makes me smile and I LOVE China as well
AhlalaLaAh 2 years ago
This reminds me of the Egyptian artifacts taken during the Napoleon's time... I think that some of them were finally given back a couple of years ago.
madeleinelovespandas 2 years ago
i think they should og back to china even if it is somthing from a war the war was probably suckish and stealing sucks sooo yeha but the people should get moneye because they paid for them
weasleyrokchick75 2 years ago
I believe that every effort should be made to return pieces of a nation's cultural heritage back to the state I recognize the issue that much of these pieces are now individually owned, but some are not. I think the first step ought to be working with organization-owned works (like those in museums) to find way to make both sides happy. Maybe allowing them to return as part of a traveling exhibit or something, because the money lost by these collections would be substantial otherwise.
beckstahangel 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Continued: A Communist government now wants the treasures of the imperial regime back? Sounds a little hypocritical to me.
Anyway, Yves Sant Laurent's partner should be recompensed in some way, if he does agree to give them back. It would be a nice gesture, but I don't agree that China should have them back.
sonotfastfood 2 years ago
Comment removed
sonotfastfood 2 years ago
The Summer Palace was destroyed for a reason. I don't think anyone who commanded the armies enjoyed it - the men who did it themselves probably did, a bit. It wasn't just looting for looting's sake. It sent a message to the Chinese Imperials that they weren't all-powerful and all-knowing. It helped China in some ways, as it led to the fall of the Manchu dynasty, and in others it caused problems. I wonder how many ordinary people in China care that much?
sonotfastfood 2 years ago
It was done because China tried to resist the British forcing opium trade on it. I doubt many Chinese will agree with you that it helped them. If you check the news, you will find young people in HK protesting at the French embassy and Chinese students in France handing out pamphlets in protest of the auction.
nikkich01 2 years ago
It was done for various reasons, and I agree that the British Opium Trade was wrong, and a terrible reason for starting a war. But equally the Imperial Chinese had their share of the blame.
I didn't quite meaning that it helped Chinese people today, but rather back then. It exposed the Imperial regime as a corrupt, weakened source of power that treated it's subjects with utter disdain and high-handedness.
sonotfastfood 2 years ago
Possession is 9/10th of the law.
History happens.
outofthedark 2 years ago
I confuse my R's and my W's ! =]
Catherine3234 2 years ago
Return them back to China(to the spouse/descendant of the original artist). They WERE stolen from there, and considering that the people out there paid millions from them means that they won't go starving if the aforementioned things happen.
Saaduk92 2 years ago
asians hate me
TotalTrekkie 2 years ago
Here's a scenario that might be the best for all concerned, over the long term:
If someone comes legitimitely into ownership of something like this, they should be allowed to keep it till they die, at which point the item is returned to it's country of origin. It would take a few decades, but slowly items would return to their homes, without any individuals being inconvenienced (although their children would lose out on inheritance, but that's the least important factor)
rhymeswithmonet 2 years ago
I think that if the artist's mate decides to sell it after the artist has past away, then its perfectly fine. china doesnt own it. If I make a painting for the white house, and it's looted, but some how returned to my mate after I'm past, then its fine. but then again, it was a gift to them. hmm. it's a toughie.
caelover101 2 years ago
i adore your voice. just wanted to say.
beautyoverfish 2 years ago
Plenty of art works were stolen in war and plenty of people were killed - no one constantly apologises for people being killed and no reparations are still being paid back.
However, even if you buy stolen goods in the UK you're required by law to give them back.
However, in this case I believe they should stay in that collection, unless China wants to buy them back. As this would set a precedent around the world and stolen art would have to be given back every which-way.
peesemould 2 years ago
Why would giving back stolen artwork be so bad? The only result I can see from giving back stolen items is better relations and trust between people worldwide. Weath is not generated because of some lumps of bronze or paint on canvas, but because people assign value to them. I think doing what is right is more important for long term than some short term monetary gains.
nikkich01 2 years ago
But they're in individual collections - not belonging to countries. An individual art collector doesn't represent their country if they're not appointed by their country.
People are always going to assign wealth to these sort of things and asking for this to be removed is idealist and very unlikely to happen.
Why should someone give a very expensive piece of art work up? Like I say, there'd be art and other artefacts flying around constantly going back to where they came from.
peesemould 2 years ago
Because this case is really an international case, not just for China, but for Greece, Egypt and all countries whose treasures are are looted. I have no problem with people buying art at high prices or displaying at musuems if these works are acquired legitmately, but in this case they are not. The stolen bronze pieces also represents national humliation of China by Western imperialists.
nikkich01 2 years ago
But what I'm saying is a HUGE amount of art WAS stolen. It's on the past. It's over. It's done with.
It's no one's fault today that European countries invaded Asian ones and there is no reason that anyone living today should have to pay for people who have been long dead's mistakes.
peesemould 2 years ago
Even though you think no one should be responsible for the atrocities their ancestors did to the Asians, that is really up to the Asians and their descendants to decide. I am just trying to point out that European countries could take steps to right the wrongs of the past if they chose to.
Even today, I find European countries still bullying weaker Asian countries, like the invasion of Iraq. Clearly no lesson is learned.
nikkich01 2 years ago
It's similar to that of asking us to apologise for slavery - it's certainly not my fault, nor is it yours. We shouldn't apologise for something we haven't done.
As you'll note, the USA instigated the unlawful war against Iraq and like a puppy the UK backed it up.
I also feel that you're misplacing your anger towards Europeans, whereas perhaps you should look closer to home.
peesemould 2 years ago
Will do my best to come on Saturday :)
caliowin 2 years ago
If they are in a private collection, they should be returned. If they are in a museum, they should be allowed to continue on display for a limited period and then returned, with the understanding that the museum will be able to co-operate in future traveling displays of the art, given the guarantee that the objects which were purchased in good faith (I know that's a big assumption) will be displayed for one year in each decade.
robertbangkok 2 years ago
So I I listened to you say "sidebar" about 5 times... I'm amazed how genuinely American and not-Jazza's-real-voice it sounded. Very entertaining.
AuthoressKat 2 years ago
really?
you're not the first person to say this?
maybe hours in front of youtube hearing americans say sidebar has rubbed off on me
:s
rhymingwithoranges 2 years ago
I know exactly what you mean about words just rubbing off -- I'm from the States, and whenever I visit my family in Europe, I feel like my entire speech pattern changes. But if I were you, I wouldn't worry about it. It's cute. :-)
AuthoressKat 2 years ago
it is a tough one. i think that these sculptures should find their way back to China no matter what. They should be donated to china and as a token of appreciation China should offer a small amount of compensation.
cindrachilly 2 years ago
i think the statues belong to Yves Saint Laurent's partner. after all he was an art collector and probably spent a lot of money on them therefor, belonged to him and now belong to his family. i personally think that if "authorities in china" wanted to bid on them, they should have the right to. it should be an open sale. if they are being auctioned off, anyone should be able to buy them.
:)
candyandapples 2 years ago
I'm not sure if they blocked from bidding or not, i don't see why they would be.
rhymingwithoranges 2 years ago
i agree with you that the partner of Yves Saint Laurent, or whomever is in possession of the artifacts at the moment,should return them back to the Chinese government, as goes for the rest of the pieces in other households...but, i also think the present owners should get some compensation as, like you said, they probably paid millions...hmmm. thanks for bringing up such good topics!
veryclarrie 2 years ago