Shouldn't they be out on the streets protecting the media's right to hack phones?
After all, if people don't have anything to hide, why are they all complaining about the media having access to tap in? Just put everything out on the table, and let us come to a decision on our own.
DLondonCole: Knowing your standpoint on Wikileaks, I'd like to see a video on where you see both these issues meeting.
@cartbeforehorse I'm not a 'fan' of Wikileaks (although I do think they've done some good things), but there's no evidence that they've hacked anything. I know the 'anonymous' lot did & Wikileaks refused to condemn them, but that's not quite the same thing. Another important difference is context.. hypothetically speaking, wouldn't it be different for someone to hack phones to uncover the motivation behind an illegal war than for someone to listen in to grieving relatives?
Of course there are distinctions if you pick specific examples. You could just as easily place a distinction between Hugh Grant and Milly Dowler. But that's not my point.
My point is merely to ask the same questions now as I did back then: How much are we really entitled to know before other considerations become of greater concern?
Many of the of the arguments I heard to defend Wikileaks back then, could just as easily be applied to Milly Dowler's case now. That is my concern.
@cartbeforehorse You're right to point out that there's a large grey area here, in which considerations must be made for public interest, security, legality, privacy & so on. I also agree that many of the supporters of Wikileaks went way over the top in attempting to argue that anything & everything should be out in public. However, I do think that even Wikileaks' most ardent fans would have deserted them pretty quick if they'd pulled a stunt like the Milly Dowler hacking. There is a difference.
You don't want legislation but you want change ....
Do you expect Joe Public to suddenly get smarter, more aware, more concerned with the lamentable standard of journalism, policing and politics that this whole sorry affair has briefly thrust into the nation's consciousness. Good luck with that one.
@DLandonCole Still.....there seems no end to this clutch of related stories.....I hear that in US law CEO's can be held accountable for paying bribes in other countries, also the spotlight flits around other (red top and non red top) publications, and the markets are nervous, and B Sky B deal effectively on hold....What will tomorrow bring ?
I hope the powers that be are going to take the opportunity to overhaul libel and defamations laws, and streamline the process of hearing such cases, in order to speed it up and save money (for both sides, with the loser picking up *any* legal expenses incurred by the other side).
It's a principle of Australian defamation law (unlike its American counterpart) that it doesn't matter if the claim is true, it's more a case of "is this in the public interest?" Is it the same in the UK? ,
@FantasmaBAnco Unfortunately not. Libel laws in this country are a mess and end up stifling free speech. If you want an example (that ended up, after three years, going the right way because of Simon's incredible guts) see the case of Singh vs BCA.
What exactly is the issue with the 'strikers send us down the road to ruin' article? Why does that irk you so much?
And as someone who has read No Logo, I'm feeling a little angry for myself for not getting the reference. Care to elucidate?
Anyways, fantastic, summational video. I only wish it were term time now, if only to watch the entire Media staff be positively buzzing in reaction to this scandal.
@LatumWay It irks me because they can slag off unions and collective bargaining and defending workers' rights until it affects them, when suddenly the Sun is taking sympathetic action.
Regarding No Logo, I was referring to people being fired and then hired again at a lower salary in their former job.
Fox News Britain: The headlines: leftists try to legalize gay marriage. PM Cameron is leading britain into a shining future. European Unions imperialism has to stop.
Now here: McReilly factor with the guest Nick Griffin on the question "How to deal with Wikileaks"
Next in program: James Beck...
Please spare us with this shit, Murdoch! I love europe too much to be destroyed by you!
what worries me most about the BskyB bid is that it's based on assurances from Rupert Murdoch to the government (David Cameron, his lackie), rather than being subjected to OFCOM's scrutiny to judge if they are 'fit and proper'. The tories clearly have a vested interest and overwhelming decision making powers (SCARY). I hope this does go to a commons vote and either it is blocked by parliament or the decision falls to OFCOM (who are bound to see it for what it is, and tell Murdoch to fuck off)!!
@OASISriffs At least in theory, OFCOM have an ongoing mandate to ensure that the owners of broadcast media are fit and proper. I think it is highly unlikely that a decision will be made quickly and so we will wait to see the fallout of all of this. I think there's a vote coming up this week in Parliament on this issue. There are a few Tories who have been pretty sharp in their criticism of Murdoch et al. Your point is well made, though.
@bloodangel13 Well, I think there will be some regulation, as there is of the broadcast media. I instinctively become very nervous about regulating the media. The potential for backfire is non-trivial.
@bloodangel13 Yes, but how do we define what tabloid media is? Sometimes the tabloids do good journalism and sometimes the broadsheets do bad journalism.
@DLandonCole Former GCHQ operatives gone freelance. A marketable skill to supplement the poor pension. Something that will likely become more common place as time goes on. The telecom companies cannot get their licence without leaving a side door open. The only encryptions permitted are those for which the key has already been divulged to the proper departments.
We get the media we people as a whole deserve. If everybody were as discerning as I am, The Sun would have gone out of business. "The Great British Public (TM)" are worthless idiots!
Good video Landon. Unfortunately there's a reason why the redtops sell so much, people are nosy and lazy, they care more for who is sleeping with who than the politics that actually have a real effect on their lives.
Full transparency would fix all the problems. The government(a group "of the people") should be forced to be transparent and many other groups would follow.
@DLandonCole When/why our money is created, who gets our money, how our money is spent. Who gets public jobs , reasons and how much they are paid. What are the laws, why do we have the laws, what are the consequences to breaking the those laws.
You may think some of these things are already taking place but they are not. I have 2 videos that can help show a good idea for creating money which can help set the basic for a free world.
What greatly concerns me about this whole debacle is that the "legislation" to restrict the press is a red herring. If politicans weren't in bed with influential figures all the time, turning a blind eye to poor behaviour by the rich and powerful, then this problem with Murdoch wouldn't be so bad. They accepted his money and ignored his actions, but instead of rectifying this very situation they want to restrict the press - very sinister indeed. This is one example of why statism is so flawed.
@RockingMrE I'm going to be doing a video about statism before too long. I think there's also an issue about the public not exercising their power to vote with their feet.
@DLandonCole I'll look forward to seeing it, but I believe that the state is the epitome of a ponzi scheme. It's fine when debt is under control. But as debt mounts and the state grows larger it becomes impossible to avoid crippling austerity and diminishment of liberty.
-if your silly enough to read or watch any media that does not have a mandated code of ethic's, and which is free from all advertising ie (the ABC Australian Broadcasting Corporation) then you deserve what you get. and frankly if your telling me that the NofW was the only paper to employ the services of disreputable PI's re hacking, or bribe people for information then again with the silly.
Murdoch is weakened and, you're right, this is about more than just jobs, this is about what the media in the UK is for and who controls it - an oligarchy or the workers and the rest of civil society." (sorry, that was rather longer than the 2 posts I had expected)
@lewicron Oh, there's all sorts yet to come out from this one. If nothing else, I suspect that a lot of journos at NI papers and stations, having seen how quickly the NotW was sacrificed, will be contacting the NUJ about membership.
The workers in News International know that Wapping is a symbol of one of the most brutal trade union defeats of the 80s and they've seen, over the past 25 years, what happens to those who stand up. Yet, things are now changing. Sun subs walked out temporarily on Thursday, journalists are joining the NUJ in droves.
Sports journos, entertainment writers and the ordinary news-gatherers who write the news that doesn't go on the front page. In the News of the World, the Sun, the Star - people who are just trying to do a professional job. And sometimes they do act, look at the history of the Express and Star since Desmond took over - strikes, reports to the do-nothing PCC and a staff uprising (google Daily Fatwa).
saw this comment by an NUJ activist on a blog elsewhere, worth bearing in mind when directing opprobrium towards NOTW hacks:
"People really need to realise that the people most under the cosh in the Wapping fortress were the hacks working for the papers. The o4dinary journalists on a newspaper don't get to choose the editorial line or write the nasty comment pieces, they're the ones who fill the rest of the pages. (1/2)
@lewicron That's absolutely true, and I hope that the NUJ will be fully supporting them, but let us not let them cry too many crocodile tears, eh? As to the sports and entertainment journos, let us not forget there was hacking going on in those areas and half the problem is too much focus on frippery and not news.
The tabloids are very good at one thing: getting people to vote conservative when it is quite categorically not in their interest to do so.
And I am on board with those "poor journalists". No one likes to see the other guy lose his job in so nasty a fashion, but tabloids have a tendency to dance on the graves of others.
I would say, "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars but in the fact the we continue to buy and consume bullshit that tells us we are right and tickles our private bits." Or, in the immortal words of Pogo, "I have met the enemy and he is us!"
The only way to stop the tabloid media invading people's privacy and sending out stories that are false and could ruin people's lives, is to regulate the media. I'm in favour of an "evidence for your claims" law. I think human nature finds this shit interesting so the markets will lead to more privacy invasion, we need regulation if we want it stopped and want the media to give us what we need rather than titillation.
@unassumption I am very wary of regulation. Ultimately, I think the pressure needs to come from consumers. I don't think that's going to happen, though.
I think all the journalists being fired is the correct thing, in the end they didn't speak up about the actions of the bad journalists, the muck raking ones so why should they be given leniency?
Sarahs law is just such a bad idea, all it would do is push the paedophiles further underground, making them utterly untraceable and possibly resulting in more children being harmed. Also the powers of Sarahs law are scary allowing real invasion of privacy of innocent people.
@imr22 On the first point, most of the journos - all except three, IIRC - at the NotW yesterday were not there when the hacking took place. A lot of them thought that the muckraking was justified, and it stinks.
"Mass-media "information" appears (to us) as mostly non-useful, vaguely entertaining distraction. Of the non-trivial, non-amusement content (eg some of "The News"), most concerns things you're powerless to influence. (Conversely, the issues you might influence seem notably absent from "The News")."
That is, broadly speaking, the problem with our society, and why nobody gives a shit about actual news. Because no one is willing to give us control over the real issues anyway.
There are still people on the BBC1 Politics Show saying that the NOTW was a great newspaper. It was a rag that I refuse to take responsibility for because I've never bought it, or any other of Murdoch's papers.
@jerrygreg2 I occasionally pick up The Times. I think the people saying that a paper known as the News of the Screws who say it was a great paper should wash their mouths, and possibly their minds, out.
Good points, Landon - I don't think I learned anything here cuz I keep up to speed, but certainly the big problem is not how to change the media but how to raise the expectations of the great British public.
I'm not sad to see the demise of the NotW, because of what it had become under Murdoch's control. But NI staff show a remarkable lack of sense of tradition - the NotW is 168 years old; few newsmen of any integrity would allow a paper with such history to go under on their watch.
comics, like the sun and the star, appeal to people that cant be bothered with the real issues, as the real issues would force them to make an effort to seek truth, and thats too much like hard work, so the lazy minded majority are happy to be spoon fed footballers wives, and which pop star has been shagging coco the clown. people can get lazy minded and find comfort in reading dumbed down drivel. thats why the Sun and Daily Star, sell, so well. they need to focus on the real world.
There is no way Coulson and Wade were not aware of these disgusting phone hacks, i hope police find the paper trail that leads back to them, and they get whats coming to them.
Good investigative skills? I just read an article where it described an ex-NOTW journalist practically kidnap (her words) the late Jade Goody, for a scoop.
This was a problem with how the very organisation's policies.
I have been *so* eager for you to weigh in on the NotW ingrigues. And it was worth the wait.
What the freakin' hell. While we in the US expect our journalists to negotiate the moral dilemmas of *reporting* newsworthy private business gleaned from misappropriated communications, we're hearing now that the UK tabloids have been doing business this way as a matter of course? And that the current scandal hit the radar simply because it targeted working class folk rather than the usual Big Shots?
@whiteflagstoo If you think English is hard you should try learning Japanese. Not only does the same kanji have different pronunciation, but the meaning can be completely different too.
English is a very irregular language because it is a hybrid of many other languages, but I don't think there is another language on the planet that has the same amount of resources available to learn the pronunciation.
@Brascofarian Well, bollocks to correct pronunciation. To an extent. I agree with your second part; the answer to 'quis custodet custodes ipsos' is us, the public.
There are some other aspects that should be investigated regarding News International's such as their attempts to intimidate anyone investigating their practices.
For example when in March 2003, when Rebekah Brooks made her huge gaffe and admitted to the Commons Select Committee that they had paid the police for information. Fast forward to November/December and the Sun outed the MP who asked her the question in the first place, Chris Bryant as being gay.
@ShredderNeverDies As for the praise of Mazer Mahmood, aka The Fake Sheik. While I can admit that he's done some good exposes, I can also look at his track record and see where he has attempted to deliberately entrap people like George Galloway and Diane Abbott or wrongly named people and nearly ruined lives, such as a doctor he named as part of the non-existant "Beckham kidnap" plot or the three men that he "investigated" attempting to build a bomb.
@BeadlesGhost Well, I'm fairly sure that this is going to affect Brooks at NI; the question is how far up it goes. As to other newspapers, I have no idea.
Well said!!!
umarglobal 7 months ago
@umarglobal Thankyou!
DLandonCole 7 months ago
Where are all those Wikileaks fans now?
Shouldn't they be out on the streets protecting the media's right to hack phones?
After all, if people don't have anything to hide, why are they all complaining about the media having access to tap in? Just put everything out on the table, and let us come to a decision on our own.
DLondonCole: Knowing your standpoint on Wikileaks, I'd like to see a video on where you see both these issues meeting.
cartbeforehorse 7 months ago
@cartbeforehorse I'm not a 'fan' of Wikileaks (although I do think they've done some good things), but there's no evidence that they've hacked anything. I know the 'anonymous' lot did & Wikileaks refused to condemn them, but that's not quite the same thing. Another important difference is context.. hypothetically speaking, wouldn't it be different for someone to hack phones to uncover the motivation behind an illegal war than for someone to listen in to grieving relatives?
bimblinghill 7 months ago
@bimblinghill
Of course there are distinctions if you pick specific examples. You could just as easily place a distinction between Hugh Grant and Milly Dowler. But that's not my point.
My point is merely to ask the same questions now as I did back then: How much are we really entitled to know before other considerations become of greater concern?
Many of the of the arguments I heard to defend Wikileaks back then, could just as easily be applied to Milly Dowler's case now. That is my concern.
cartbeforehorse 7 months ago
@cartbeforehorse You're right to point out that there's a large grey area here, in which considerations must be made for public interest, security, legality, privacy & so on. I also agree that many of the supporters of Wikileaks went way over the top in attempting to argue that anything & everything should be out in public. However, I do think that even Wikileaks' most ardent fans would have deserted them pretty quick if they'd pulled a stunt like the Milly Dowler hacking. There is a difference.
bimblinghill 7 months ago
@cartbeforehorse That video is now up :)
DLandonCole 7 months ago
You don't want legislation but you want change ....
Do you expect Joe Public to suddenly get smarter, more aware, more concerned with the lamentable standard of journalism, policing and politics that this whole sorry affair has briefly thrust into the nation's consciousness. Good luck with that one.
Artifactorfiction 7 months ago
@Artifactorfiction No, I don't. I'm quite pessimistic.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
@DLandonCole Still.....there seems no end to this clutch of related stories.....I hear that in US law CEO's can be held accountable for paying bribes in other countries, also the spotlight flits around other (red top and non red top) publications, and the markets are nervous, and B Sky B deal effectively on hold....What will tomorrow bring ?
Artifactorfiction 7 months ago
@Artifactorfiction Things keep happening. I wouldn't want to venture any opinion...
DLandonCole 7 months ago
@DLandonCole I'll read that ellipsis as a rye smile :-)
Artifactorfiction 7 months ago
I wonder how all this will affect the Internet. We all know that governments want to get their grubby hands on it.
RPFS2008 7 months ago
What is in the public interest is different from what the public find interesting, unfortunately.
USERNAMEfieldempty 7 months ago
@USERNAMEfieldempty Very true.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
I hope the powers that be are going to take the opportunity to overhaul libel and defamations laws, and streamline the process of hearing such cases, in order to speed it up and save money (for both sides, with the loser picking up *any* legal expenses incurred by the other side).
It's a principle of Australian defamation law (unlike its American counterpart) that it doesn't matter if the claim is true, it's more a case of "is this in the public interest?" Is it the same in the UK? ,
FantasmaBAnco 7 months ago
@FantasmaBAnco Unfortunately not. Libel laws in this country are a mess and end up stifling free speech. If you want an example (that ended up, after three years, going the right way because of Simon's incredible guts) see the case of Singh vs BCA.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
What exactly is the issue with the 'strikers send us down the road to ruin' article? Why does that irk you so much?
And as someone who has read No Logo, I'm feeling a little angry for myself for not getting the reference. Care to elucidate?
Anyways, fantastic, summational video. I only wish it were term time now, if only to watch the entire Media staff be positively buzzing in reaction to this scandal.
LatumWay 7 months ago
@LatumWay It irks me because they can slag off unions and collective bargaining and defending workers' rights until it affects them, when suddenly the Sun is taking sympathetic action.
Regarding No Logo, I was referring to people being fired and then hired again at a lower salary in their former job.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
@DLandonCole Oh yeah I remember reading that part.
LatumWay 7 months ago
Fuck those journalists... they WERE the NOTW.
FantasmaBAnco 7 months ago
Fox News Britain: The headlines: leftists try to legalize gay marriage. PM Cameron is leading britain into a shining future. European Unions imperialism has to stop.
Now here: McReilly factor with the guest Nick Griffin on the question "How to deal with Wikileaks"
Next in program: James Beck...
Please spare us with this shit, Murdoch! I love europe too much to be destroyed by you!
MardasMan 7 months ago
what worries me most about the BskyB bid is that it's based on assurances from Rupert Murdoch to the government (David Cameron, his lackie), rather than being subjected to OFCOM's scrutiny to judge if they are 'fit and proper'. The tories clearly have a vested interest and overwhelming decision making powers (SCARY). I hope this does go to a commons vote and either it is blocked by parliament or the decision falls to OFCOM (who are bound to see it for what it is, and tell Murdoch to fuck off)!!
OASISriffs 7 months ago
@OASISriffs At least in theory, OFCOM have an ongoing mandate to ensure that the owners of broadcast media are fit and proper. I think it is highly unlikely that a decision will be made quickly and so we will wait to see the fallout of all of this. I think there's a vote coming up this week in Parliament on this issue. There are a few Tories who have been pretty sharp in their criticism of Murdoch et al. Your point is well made, though.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
Why not put a regulations on tabloid media ?, Is it better for ever decent news agency in England if the tabloid where put into a lead ?.
bloodangel13 7 months ago
@bloodangel13 Well, I think there will be some regulation, as there is of the broadcast media. I instinctively become very nervous about regulating the media. The potential for backfire is non-trivial.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
@DLandonCole I can see you concern, But if said regulation only affects the tabloid media and prevent them from doing the same thing again.
Wouldn't be that a good thing ?.
bloodangel13 7 months ago
@bloodangel13 Yes, but how do we define what tabloid media is? Sometimes the tabloids do good journalism and sometimes the broadsheets do bad journalism.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
@DLandonCole I see your point, But what guarantee that this won't happen again ?.
bloodangel13 7 months ago
Finally, one down, two to go. Now Sky needs to be prevented becoming a monopoly by Murdock.
thernr 7 months ago
@thernr Agreed.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
Where did the knowledge come from, that gave the journalists the know how, to hack private communications?
SissingPyd 7 months ago
@SissingPyd No idea.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
@DLandonCole Former GCHQ operatives gone freelance. A marketable skill to supplement the poor pension. Something that will likely become more common place as time goes on. The telecom companies cannot get their licence without leaving a side door open. The only encryptions permitted are those for which the key has already been divulged to the proper departments.
SissingPyd 7 months ago
I agree with the opinion that it was slick of him to close it down for damage control as he keeps his eyes are on the Sky and the rise of the Sun.
phenixwryter 7 months ago
@phenixwryter That's what it looks like to me, although I'm not sure it's going to work as planned :)
DLandonCole 7 months ago
We get the media we people as a whole deserve. If everybody were as discerning as I am, The Sun would have gone out of business. "The Great British Public (TM)" are worthless idiots!
tintiringa 7 months ago
@tintiringa Groups generally are not smart.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
Good video Landon. Unfortunately there's a reason why the redtops sell so much, people are nosy and lazy, they care more for who is sleeping with who than the politics that actually have a real effect on their lives.
StanMarsh1 7 months ago 2
@StanMarsh1 Sadly true.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
Thanks, Landon. There really has been a dearth of coverage here in the US, although it looks like the scandal may reach our shores soon enough
HeavyTrafficAhead 7 months ago
@HeavyTrafficAhead Somehow, I doubt Fox will be giving full coverage to it, although the way things are going... who knows.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
Full transparency would fix all the problems. The government(a group "of the people") should be forced to be transparent and many other groups would follow.
Stonegoal 7 months ago
@Stonegoal What exactly do you mean by full transparency?
DLandonCole 7 months ago
@DLandonCole When/why our money is created, who gets our money, how our money is spent. Who gets public jobs , reasons and how much they are paid. What are the laws, why do we have the laws, what are the consequences to breaking the those laws.
You may think some of these things are already taking place but they are not. I have 2 videos that can help show a good idea for creating money which can help set the basic for a free world.
Stonegoal 7 months ago
What greatly concerns me about this whole debacle is that the "legislation" to restrict the press is a red herring. If politicans weren't in bed with influential figures all the time, turning a blind eye to poor behaviour by the rich and powerful, then this problem with Murdoch wouldn't be so bad. They accepted his money and ignored his actions, but instead of rectifying this very situation they want to restrict the press - very sinister indeed. This is one example of why statism is so flawed.
RockingMrE 7 months ago
@RockingMrE I'm going to be doing a video about statism before too long. I think there's also an issue about the public not exercising their power to vote with their feet.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
@DLandonCole I'll look forward to seeing it, but I believe that the state is the epitome of a ponzi scheme. It's fine when debt is under control. But as debt mounts and the state grows larger it becomes impossible to avoid crippling austerity and diminishment of liberty.
RockingMrE 7 months ago
Until Murdoch goes to Jail I won't be happy, he has helped dumb down the nation with stories on Z list celebs.
Heavy night lastnight Landon?
TheZamario 7 months ago 7
@TheZamario Nah, my voice is just a bit dodgy atm.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
-if your silly enough to read or watch any media that does not have a mandated code of ethic's, and which is free from all advertising ie (the ABC Australian Broadcasting Corporation) then you deserve what you get. and frankly if your telling me that the NofW was the only paper to employ the services of disreputable PI's re hacking, or bribe people for information then again with the silly.
-on another point i liked your video.
Orwellianliving 7 months ago
@Orwellianliving i don't mind advertising , it all about the quality of journalism , tabloids have no journalism , its all yellow muck throwing
jmm1233 7 months ago
@Orwellianliving No, I disagree. For instance, Edward R Murrow's programmes were supported by advertising.
DLandonCole 7 months ago 2
@DLandonCole -indeed some pretty flowers emerge from shit, but still in the main i stick to my statement.
Orwellianliving 7 months ago
@DesertDeathCultIslam Hope you enjoyed it...
DLandonCole 7 months ago
Murdoch is weakened and, you're right, this is about more than just jobs, this is about what the media in the UK is for and who controls it - an oligarchy or the workers and the rest of civil society." (sorry, that was rather longer than the 2 posts I had expected)
lewicron 7 months ago
@lewicron Oh, there's all sorts yet to come out from this one. If nothing else, I suspect that a lot of journos at NI papers and stations, having seen how quickly the NotW was sacrificed, will be contacting the NUJ about membership.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
The workers in News International know that Wapping is a symbol of one of the most brutal trade union defeats of the 80s and they've seen, over the past 25 years, what happens to those who stand up. Yet, things are now changing. Sun subs walked out temporarily on Thursday, journalists are joining the NUJ in droves.
lewicron 7 months ago
can you feel the take over , invasion of the family , like the mobsters of 1920s
jmm1233 7 months ago
Sports journos, entertainment writers and the ordinary news-gatherers who write the news that doesn't go on the front page. In the News of the World, the Sun, the Star - people who are just trying to do a professional job. And sometimes they do act, look at the history of the Express and Star since Desmond took over - strikes, reports to the do-nothing PCC and a staff uprising (google Daily Fatwa).
lewicron 7 months ago
saw this comment by an NUJ activist on a blog elsewhere, worth bearing in mind when directing opprobrium towards NOTW hacks:
"People really need to realise that the people most under the cosh in the Wapping fortress were the hacks working for the papers. The o4dinary journalists on a newspaper don't get to choose the editorial line or write the nasty comment pieces, they're the ones who fill the rest of the pages. (1/2)
lewicron 7 months ago
@lewicron That's absolutely true, and I hope that the NUJ will be fully supporting them, but let us not let them cry too many crocodile tears, eh? As to the sports and entertainment journos, let us not forget there was hacking going on in those areas and half the problem is too much focus on frippery and not news.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
@DLandonCole Agreed. The real story is that THE NEWS OF THE WORLD IS FUCKING GONE!!!! AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lewicron 7 months ago
An excellent presentation sir!
bushonomics 7 months ago
@bushonomics Thankyou! (PS, it's Landon, not sir).
DLandonCole 7 months ago
Good stuff. Lots of info I hadn't heard yet. Thanks.
socrates856 7 months ago
@socrates856 Glad to oblige!
DLandonCole 7 months ago
Betting agencies have been taking bets on Cameron to be the next cabinet member to resign. Fucking LOL.
lewicron 7 months ago
@lewicron Will Hill are offering 14/1 for Cameron not to be PM on the day of the next election.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
The tabloids are very good at one thing: getting people to vote conservative when it is quite categorically not in their interest to do so.
And I am on board with those "poor journalists". No one likes to see the other guy lose his job in so nasty a fashion, but tabloids have a tendency to dance on the graves of others.
As ye have sown ...
Anekantavad 7 months ago
@Anekantavad And poisioning political discourse in general. "They have sown the wind, and shall reap the whirl-wind".
DLandonCole 7 months ago
@DLandonCole It's really cute when the wolves themselves are thrown to the wolves :-)
Anekantavad 7 months ago
which link is for the liverpool Sun story?
1ockedand1oaded 7 months ago
@1ockedand1oaded I've just added it in :)
DLandonCole 7 months ago
@DLandonCole cool thanks :)
1ockedand1oaded 7 months ago
I would say, "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars but in the fact the we continue to buy and consume bullshit that tells us we are right and tickles our private bits." Or, in the immortal words of Pogo, "I have met the enemy and he is us!"
colourmegone 7 months ago
@colourmegone Indeed!
DLandonCole 7 months ago
Rupert still will have to pay for it in the end..
This is not going to be easy to remove of his name...
masticina 7 months ago
@masticina Well, he has seemed to be coated in teflon in the past.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
@DLandonCole
True but one day telfon will fail!
masticina 7 months ago
This is a very good commentary and I am grateful for the links you have provided.
As an American, I find this story as baffling as it is compelling.
Our Bill of Rights begins with a free press, and we suffer that latitude to preserve the power of the populace over the government.
But if someone like Rupert Murdoch comes out of this stronger and more consolidated in his comfortable empire, the cost has risen too high.
Responsible journalism should thrive, criminal journalism should be punished.
oldclown 7 months ago
@oldclown Thankyou! Also - I agree. We have problems with free speech in terms of libel and so on in this country.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
The only way to stop the tabloid media invading people's privacy and sending out stories that are false and could ruin people's lives, is to regulate the media. I'm in favour of an "evidence for your claims" law. I think human nature finds this shit interesting so the markets will lead to more privacy invasion, we need regulation if we want it stopped and want the media to give us what we need rather than titillation.
unassumption 7 months ago
@unassumption I am very wary of regulation. Ultimately, I think the pressure needs to come from consumers. I don't think that's going to happen, though.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
I think all the journalists being fired is the correct thing, in the end they didn't speak up about the actions of the bad journalists, the muck raking ones so why should they be given leniency?
Sarahs law is just such a bad idea, all it would do is push the paedophiles further underground, making them utterly untraceable and possibly resulting in more children being harmed. Also the powers of Sarahs law are scary allowing real invasion of privacy of innocent people.
imr22 7 months ago
@imr22 On the first point, most of the journos - all except three, IIRC - at the NotW yesterday were not there when the hacking took place. A lot of them thought that the muckraking was justified, and it stinks.
Agree on Sarah's law.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
"Mass-media "information" appears (to us) as mostly non-useful, vaguely entertaining distraction. Of the non-trivial, non-amusement content (eg some of "The News"), most concerns things you're powerless to influence. (Conversely, the issues you might influence seem notably absent from "The News")."
That is, broadly speaking, the problem with our society, and why nobody gives a shit about actual news. Because no one is willing to give us control over the real issues anyway.
artifactingreality 7 months ago
@artifactingreality In a word - yes.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
There are still people on the BBC1 Politics Show saying that the NOTW was a great newspaper. It was a rag that I refuse to take responsibility for because I've never bought it, or any other of Murdoch's papers.
jerrygreg2 7 months ago
@jerrygreg2 I occasionally pick up The Times. I think the people saying that a paper known as the News of the Screws who say it was a great paper should wash their mouths, and possibly their minds, out.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
Shows what an sordid tale this is, and thats not even getting to the role of the Met in all this.
EvilEuropean 7 months ago
@EvilEuropean Oh, there'll be hell to pay there, I'm sure.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
Good points, Landon - I don't think I learned anything here cuz I keep up to speed, but certainly the big problem is not how to change the media but how to raise the expectations of the great British public.
I'm not sad to see the demise of the NotW, because of what it had become under Murdoch's control. But NI staff show a remarkable lack of sense of tradition - the NotW is 168 years old; few newsmen of any integrity would allow a paper with such history to go under on their watch.
Squagnut 7 months ago
@Squagnut Well, the damage was done before the current lot were on board, in fairness, but point taken about Murdoch et al.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
Good quote at the end there. The best and most apt things have always been said before.
ShallowBeThyGames 7 months ago
@ShallowBeThyGames Indeed.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
glad the NOTW has gone, but lets not forget that certain govt. departments tap peoples private call every day.
jancrowb 7 months ago
comics, like the sun and the star, appeal to people that cant be bothered with the real issues, as the real issues would force them to make an effort to seek truth, and thats too much like hard work, so the lazy minded majority are happy to be spoon fed footballers wives, and which pop star has been shagging coco the clown. people can get lazy minded and find comfort in reading dumbed down drivel. thats why the Sun and Daily Star, sell, so well. they need to focus on the real world.
jancrowb 7 months ago 6
@jancrowb I agree. We need to raise the public's sights.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
There is no way Coulson and Wade were not aware of these disgusting phone hacks, i hope police find the paper trail that leads back to them, and they get whats coming to them.
bonnie43uk 7 months ago
@bonnie43uk Well, it seems that the smoking gun may have been found... bbc dot in slash qwCD14
DLandonCole 7 months ago
Good investigative skills? I just read an article where it described an ex-NOTW journalist practically kidnap (her words) the late Jade Goody, for a scoop.
This was a problem with how the very organisation's policies.
Afriboy10 7 months ago
@Afriboy10 They did have some good investigations although they were massively outweighed by the dross.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
I have been *so* eager for you to weigh in on the NotW ingrigues. And it was worth the wait.
What the freakin' hell. While we in the US expect our journalists to negotiate the moral dilemmas of *reporting* newsworthy private business gleaned from misappropriated communications, we're hearing now that the UK tabloids have been doing business this way as a matter of course? And that the current scandal hit the radar simply because it targeted working class folk rather than the usual Big Shots?
geodgereturns 7 months ago
@geodgereturns Glad to oblige!
It's a sorry state, it really is.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
"Murdock, let's not pretend he's evil incarnate because he's not"
Of course he isn't. He could teach evil incarnate a few tricks :p
Scarletpooky 7 months ago 33
@Scarletpooky LOL... quite.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
hy-per-bo-le...not "hyper-bole" :/ You've mispronounced this before.
I have to say, like government, a country gets the media it deserves. If frippery didn't sell copy, it wouldn't be there.
Brascofarian 7 months ago
@Brascofarian well it doesn't help that in English you have to learn how every word is said no matter how it's spelled.
whiteflagstoo 7 months ago
@whiteflagstoo If you think English is hard you should try learning Japanese. Not only does the same kanji have different pronunciation, but the meaning can be completely different too.
Brascofarian 7 months ago
English is a very irregular language because it is a hybrid of many other languages, but I don't think there is another language on the planet that has the same amount of resources available to learn the pronunciation.
Brascofarian 7 months ago
@Brascofarian Well, bollocks to correct pronunciation. To an extent. I agree with your second part; the answer to 'quis custodet custodes ipsos' is us, the public.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
Nice to get a breakdown on this!
Regards,
Rhysz
Rhysz1 7 months ago
@Rhysz1 Glad to oblige.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
I heard that quote from vlogbrothers recently. Cheers for that one.
Aresftfun 7 months ago
@Aresftfun Which one?
DLandonCole 7 months ago
@DLandonCole John
Aresftfun 7 months ago
:-)
SiriusMined 7 months ago
@SiriusMined Thanks :)
DLandonCole 7 months ago
There are some other aspects that should be investigated regarding News International's such as their attempts to intimidate anyone investigating their practices.
For example when in March 2003, when Rebekah Brooks made her huge gaffe and admitted to the Commons Select Committee that they had paid the police for information. Fast forward to November/December and the Sun outed the MP who asked her the question in the first place, Chris Bryant as being gay.
ShredderNeverDies 7 months ago 2
@ShredderNeverDies As for the praise of Mazer Mahmood, aka The Fake Sheik. While I can admit that he's done some good exposes, I can also look at his track record and see where he has attempted to deliberately entrap people like George Galloway and Diane Abbott or wrongly named people and nearly ruined lives, such as a doctor he named as part of the non-existant "Beckham kidnap" plot or the three men that he "investigated" attempting to build a bomb.
That is not decent quality journalism.
ShredderNeverDies 7 months ago
@ShredderNeverDies Agreed.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
It's unlikely to stop at just NOTW, it makes me wonder how deep this all goes?
BeadlesGhost 7 months ago
@BeadlesGhost Well, I'm fairly sure that this is going to affect Brooks at NI; the question is how far up it goes. As to other newspapers, I have no idea.
DLandonCole 7 months ago
First zionist $hill post!
LandonsNATOOverlords 7 months ago 2