@HaphazardCrappola Also the amount of people who claim to have these experiences, holds as much weight as the amount of people who claim to have been abducted by aliens and experimented on. There are natural phenomena which can adequately explain things like these, and only an irrational mind would jump to supernatural conclusions.
@HaphazardCrappola "KGB scientist George Rodonaia had a NDE. He was dead for 3 days."
He was not dead. A doctor began to make an incision in his body and he snapped out whatever state he was in...If he was dead, he wouldn't be alive now to tell his story. Death is defined as permanent, and unless the body begins to decay then the person never really died because natural body decay is a property of death. Just like if a substance isn't H20 then it wasn't water, if the body doesn't decay...well.
@HaphazardCrappola Also if he actually had an experience it would have been as he was in the process of dying. Also the university of Kentucky did a study showing that REM intrusions can occur even while someone is clinically dead, so NDEs are no good evidence of an afterlife. Especially because they are NEAR death experiences, not AFTER death experiences. Even the name discredits NDEs as evidence of an afterlife.
@theBartone9119 LOL they are called Near Death Experience because the person came back to life and hence is not DEAD. REM means the mind is aware while the body is asleep. Are you suggesting based on ONE study that the NDEer's are AWARE that they are dead? Because I agree. That is basically what they say based on their experiences that they are aware that they are dead and can make either a conscious decision to come back, not come back or forced to come back by doctors.
@HaphazardCrappola All I'm suggesting is that there is no solid evidence that these experiences are supernatural or indicate that life continues forever after death.
Lol, Pam Reynolds. I can't even begin to recount the times I've seen her experience in particular be exaggerated beyond the point of ridicule.
"It has been pointed out that proponents have generally misrepresented the amount of time which Reynolds was flatlined[9]: the actual surgical timeline suggests that her brain stem activity was fully flatlined for a period of five to six minutes"
Even funnier is when the religious use her NDE as "proof", even though it had NO religious elements at all.
@DStrike0083 Since near-death isn't actually death (just like going near a finish line isn't crossing the finish line), then any NDE cannot be proof of an afterlife. Just like whatever happens right before you cross a finish line is not evidence of what happens after you cross it. You have no basis for a case Mr. "Toe Tags Are Only In Movies" lol
@DStrike0083 "btw we're not talking about god. We're talking about consciousness. Traditional science see consciousness as a by-product of the brain. But if the brain is not functioning, then how are these people still able to see what they see."
How do you know that the experience that they recall was an experience they had while the brain was not functioning? That makes no sense, it's much more likely they are recalling experiences they had while the brain was dying, not while it was dead.
science still need to explain how clear consciousness can be reported with flat EEG..... Science already shows that everything is consciousness. Hard to keep up with the facts in this day of instant info lol
This video is idiotic because there is no way to prove that the the patient had the experience during brain death and not while the brain was in the process of dying. The patient is most likely recalling an experience had as the brain was releasing mass amounts of DMT before brain death, not an experience had during brain death. This should be common sense.
@theBartone9119 strange, what causes DMT to flow into the brain upon death? No the pineal gland does not produce DMT at death. In fact DMT has never been proven to be created at mass quantity upon death.
@DStrike0083 "No the pineal gland does not produce DMT at death"
I never said it did moron, I said it produces the DMT as the brain is dying, not while it's dead. Dying is a process it's not like flicking a light switch on and off.
"In fact DMT has never been proven to be created at mass quantity upon death."
It's also never been proven that NDEs are spiritual, common sense tells us they aren't though. Also studies have been done which show evidence that the DMT release is likely. Nice try..
@DStrike0083 Also DMT isn't the only thing in the brain that can trigger vivid hallucinations, the brain probably does some weird things as it dies. So far throughout history things people gave supernatural explanations for have been proven wrong, so why should this be any different? People used to think storms were God punishing them, nope it's just wind conditions. People used to think a God would eat the sun on occasion, nope just an eclipse. The supernatural ALWAYS loses to science.
@theBartone9119 lol you go on and on about science but give no explanation for the experience. You start with DMt and I proved that DMt is not produced during the NDE.
So please tell me what is this weird thing? nice try with your excuses. Please try again when you have actual research =)
@theBartone9119 btw we're not talking about god. We're talking about consciousness. Traditional science see consciousness as a by-product of the brain. But if the brain is not functioning, then how are these people still able to see what they see.
idk what your deal is about god or being atheist but we're talking about consciousness, not religion.
@DStrike0083 Remember, just because someone's brain stopped functioning and they recall an experience, doesn't mean the experience they are recalling happened while the brain was not functioning. The brain dying is a process it's not like flipping a light switch on and off, it's more likely that these people had these weird experiences as the brain was dying not while it was dead. Make sense?
@theBartone9119 under traditional biology, the theory is when the heart stops and the brain has no eeg, you are dead. Consciousness cannot exist. What part of the traditional theory of biology don't you understand?
futhermore, firs you argued DMT which has been proven incorrectly and now you argue susan blackmore dying brain theory which has been proven wrong. what's your next theory? Low oxygen?
@DStrike0083 How "under traditional biology, the theory is when the heart stops and the brain has no eeg, you are dead. Consciousness cannot exist. What part of the traditional theory of biology don't you understand?"
REM intrusions can still occur in the brain stem even if someone is brain dead. Either way there is no evidence that these experiences happen when the brain is dead anyway, I already told you these people are most likely recalling experiences they had as the brain was dying.
@DStrike0083 "firs you argued DMT which has been proven incorrectly"
No it hasn't, you are just making things up to make your fairy tales more plausible. It is very likely that DMT gets released in large amounts as the brain dies, also you must not know what happens when the brain loses oxygen and the eyes shut down but people see a white light at the end of a tunnel, hence why they call it tunnel vision. Why are you so scared of your mortality?
@theBartone9119 oh do you have any scientific study that dmt produces upon NDE? Let me guess, you saw rick strassman DMT video on youtube. Well here's something you didn't know about, neither strassman or any other researcher has proven that large amount of DMT occur upon death. If you have a peer review article, I would gladly see it. But unfortunately you don't. Keep guessing, it has to be correct.
also if low oxygen occurs then why do most Asian NDE not have them?
1) Clinical death is reversible, Biological death is not so NDEs cannot be evidence of what happens after biological death
2) There is no evidence that the recalled experiences happened while they were clinically dead. (Just because the person was clinically dead before they verbalized their experience, doesn't mean the experience happened while clinically dead.)
3) The Kentucky study proves that REM Intrusions can occur while the higher brain is dead.
2) Veridical nde and people who can recount things occurring when there is no EEG
3) UK study showed rem intrusion more likely in NDE. It did not account for all NDE. Only 60% had rem intrusion, the other 40% didn't. What about the other 40%?
nope I'm still winning. So what's next? back to DMT? dying brain? ketamine? rem intrusion? come on I've seen them all.
@DStrike0083 Lol you are funny, there is no evidence that these experiences happened during the clinical death, there is only evidence the person recalled what happened after she was clinically dead. You are too uneducated to know that clinical death and biological death are not the same thing, you ignore experts in science who have theorized about plausible natural causes for NDE's, and you didn't even know toe tags were real. Not only do you lose the debate, you lose at life.
@theBartone9119 let's see, aware project and cool project. You place an image near the top of the ceiling, nobody in the room can see it, patients are placed in the room during cardiac arrest and out when they are stabilized. Yet people are able to see the pictures were no one else could and their eyes were closed.
yep nothing here folks. just some loser who know nothing about the research
a) Somehow provide proof that the the experiences recalled happened during clinical death and not while the brain was dying
b) Make a case while acknowledging the difference between clinical death and biological death
Then you have some grounds for a case for NDEs indicating an afterlife. You clearly haven't met your burden of proof and have proven yourself a joke by saying that don't tag your toes..
@DStrike0083 If the person lived to tell the story, they didn't really die. They were in a state that was almost indistinguishable from death because it was close (hence why they call it a near death experience). The higher brain may be completely shut down, but it can work at lower levels that scanners can't pick up and REM intrusions can occur. Other experiences are most likely when the brain is dying, it goes virtually dead, then the recall the experience they had as it was dying. Try again.
@theBartone9119 lol what are you babbling on about. First your DMT theory was proven wrong and your god strassman ridicule, then you used the dying brain theory and your god susan blackmore was wrong, and now you're trying to disprove your own rem intrusion study. And yes I believe an expert in rem intrusion would know more than you and wikipedia. Like the expert wouldn't have thought of that.
@theBartone9119 maybe because the results aren't out yet? wow you must be really dumb. How can you know the answers when the results aren't even publish?
@DStrike0083 "you see there is this guy name rick strassman who you claim is your dmt god" actually I don't even know who that is, how can you be taken seriously when you are saying I made claims I never did?
"No research has ever proven that as a fact"
But you said it was proven wrong...Just because something hasn't been proven correct doesn't mean it has been proven wrong, are you that stupid?
It's clear you have no clue what you are talking about, keep clinging to supernatural fairy tales.
@theBartone9119 ah so I see now, DMT, never proven to be released during death===========existence.
yes more scientists should be like you. make an assumption and it becomes true. Yes let's do no further research. Keep believing in your retarded assumptions. Let's not even look at the research, Pussies like you can't read scientific research, Pussies are only good for making sandwiches. Go to the kitchen pussy and make me a sandwhich
@DStrike0083 It's so obvious that NDEs are just tricks of the brain, anyone who thinks it's a link to a supernatural world needs to get their head examined.
@theBartone9119 ok what trick of the mind? Go ahead and show your scientific research. Oh wait that's right you don't have any and all your research has been disproven
@DStrike0083 How has it been disproven? What study is there that disrproves that DMT gets released in mass amounts at death? Oh ya that's, right it doesn't exist. Also DMT being released in mass amounts at death is simply the most likely explanation based on what we know about the brain regardless of whether it has been proven. Why don't you stop believing in fairy tales about a supernatural afterlife when it's clear this is the only life you get. You are scared so you deny your mortality.
@theBartone9119 I wouldn't say that THAT's clear either, though. DMT could very plausibly be the chemical gateway for the soul which could still very possibly exist independently of the body. It would help to explain why science still can't track down consciousness inside the brain. I'm mostly with you. This video is truly retarded. I just don't think anyone has proven the non-existence of a soul.
@geoffstockton "DMT could very plausibly be the chemical gateway for the soul"
I highly doubt it. DMT is a chemical release which acts on the brain meaning it can only have a cause/ effect relationship with something biological.
" It would help to explain why science still can't track down consciousness inside the brain"
This makes no sense, how can you "track down" consciousness? If you effect the brain a certain way you can lose consciousness,this indicates consciousness is due to the brain
@theBartone9119 DMT working on the clinically dead doesn't seem very biological to me. A living creature is classified as living due to the body physically working. Having DMT work on a brain that has ceased to produce brain waves/functioning contradicts the definition of life.
@HaphazardCrappola The DMT release would occur as the brain was dying. Life and death isn't like flipping a light switch on and off, it's a process. Death is also defined as: "The permanent cessation of all vital functions; Bodies of living organisms begin to decompose shortly after death."
Did the patient end up having enough vital functions to tell the story of their experience? Yes. Did their body decompose? No.
This means that saying this person died, contradicts the definition of Death.
@theBartone9119 You cannot use the word death as a definition of the term death. Death cannot mean "bodies of living organisms that begin to decompose shortly after death". One does not need to see a decomposing body to know that a person is dead.
@geoffstockton If you had any education about science or neurology, you would know that NDE's have to do with the brain and there is nothing supernatural about it.
@theBartone9119 If you had an ability to say something that wasn't a direct quote from your years of school indoctrination, you would see how big of a douchebag you seem to be to the rest of us.
@geoffstockton If you had the ability to accept reality for what it really is instead of trying to deny your own mortality, then you wouldn't come off as such an uneducated person when it comes to subjects like near death experience's and science. As far as indoctrination goes, I reject all religious indoctrination but it seems clear you are clinging to one form of it to be so keen to believe in an afterlife that doesn't exist...Just sayin.
@theBartone9119 You are obviously too retarded to see how modern science is a religious indoctrination all it's own, designed to keep you from the truth. Go ahead and respond with whatever you want. I won't be wasting any more time on your arrogant ignorance. It seems that all you do is sit on your ass on youtube and abuse anyone who doesn't buy the bullshit they were taught in school like you do. You're a loser and a very sad person. Fuck off!
@geoffstockton "modern science is a religious indoctrination all it's own" This comment just proved you are a retard. Grow a brain before opening your mouth, it might help you sound less moronic.
@theBartone9119 So how exactly do we know if you're a reliable source on neurology? Are you a scientist/neurologist who spends his time arguing on youtube?
@theBartone9119 Did you even watch the video? The neuroscientist said that the patient's brain was completely absent of metabolic activity as well as nerve impulses. Therefore she was dead and what she was experiencing certainly wasn't her brain.
The brain stem which is responsible REM intrusions can be active an cause these intrusions to occur during clinical brain death, which was a conclusion regarding NDE's which was made by the University of Kentucky and it was verified. Also there is no evidence the experience didn't take place during the 15 - 20 seconds it takes for the clinical death to happen after cardiac arrest. There are too many natural explanations to logically invoke a supernatural one that makes no sense.
@theBartone9119 Well there are several NDE stories about people who have been dead for hours or even days. Also, everyone who has an NDE reports the experience to feel very real (sometimes "even more real than this reality"), not like a dream.
@brian92992 "Well there are several NDE stories about people who have been dead for hours or even days"
Did they live to tell the story? Then they didn't die...Death is defined as the permanent cessation of vital bodily functions (permanent being the key word)
"Also, everyone who has an NDE reports the experience to feel very real, not like a dream."
Yes if you ever tried the drug DMT then you would experience things that seemed real like you were in another dimension, just a trick of the brain
@theBartone9119 I personally haven't tried DMT but a number of my friends have as well as many people on erowid.org. I have yet to meet a person or hear of a person who's had a trip similar to the dying experiences I've heard of. DMT trips are more about changing colors, geometrical shapes, and a bunch of other "trippy" things. People "trip" on DMT. People dying don't really "trip", that's what I mean by their experiences being more "real".
@DStrike0083 Your logic is utterly retarded, you think that just because something hasn't been proven 100% that means it has been disproven? Only a complete moron would say something like that, it has never been disrproven that DMT gets released in mass amounts at death. Also, it has been proven that REM intrusions can occur while the higher brain is not functioning (University of Kentucky research). There are countless explanations for NDEs, you are just too stupid to accept them.
@DStrike0083 How am I trying to disprove the REM theory? You seem to forget that there are many different types of NDE's, some may be triggered by DMT, some may be triggered by REM intrusions. It's clear you just try to cling to whatever theory helps you believe in an afterlife...Aww how cute, news flash though moron:
When you die, that's it.....Deep down you know it but you feel that if you believe in the afterlife while you are alive it will make death easier to cope with. Pussy.
@DStrike0083 Also since you think consciousness is impossible when your brain dead then even you admit the experience couldn't have taken place while brain dead. NDE's are conscious experiences. You just keep taking the foundations of your arguments right from underneath them.
@theBartone9119 nope, you argue under the materialistic approach that consciousness occurs from the brain. You're arguing that NDE are caused by DMT or dying brain theory. Guess what? Both are wrong and has never been proven.
So what does that mean? It means that there's a possibility that consciousness is separate from the brain. That's all I'm arguing. You can listen to all the fake youtube video you want but I have science on my side.
@DStrike0083 You have no science on your side. You just claim you do without any evidence.
"You're arguing that NDE are caused by DMT or dying brain theory. Guess what? Both are wrong and has never been proven."
Here's one point that shuts your whole argument down: It's a near death experience, not an after death experience meaning that whatever was experienced could not be evidence of anything that happens once you are dead.
@theBartone9119 lol is that how you're going to attack me? First arguing dmt and not rejecting the idea? What about your survival brain theory. For a rationalist, you sure make irrational observations
@DStrike0083 If you want to talk about studies look up the university of kentucky study that provides evidence that REM intrusions can still occur when the higher brain is dead. That is science, the supernatural (afterlife theories) have nothing to do with science and are backed up by squat. There is no evidence that these people are recalling experiences had WHILE brain dead, not a single shred of evidence. I already destroyed your argument by mentioning it is a NEAR death experience.
@theBartone9119 funny you mention the UK study. The researcher stated that it might contribute but is not the cause of NDE. In rem intrusion, people see bits and pieces and odd things like normal dreaming. Whereas nde is one continuous story. did you read the study?
So you have not heard of veridical nde. You know when someone has no BP, no EEG, and science says they're dead. They come back around and tell you that they had an OBE and saw what the doctors did?
@DStrike0083 How can a NEAR death experience be evidence of what happens AFTER death? Think about it, there is no logic in using NDE's as evidence of an afterlife. If the person lived to tell the story then they didn't die, they were simply clinically dead (not the same as biological death) and were resuscitated. I have science on my side, you have fairy tales...Good luck with that :)
@theBartone9119 yes because when a scientist tells you that a person is dead, we should ignore him.
science on your side? Science can't even explain how a bunch of cells that create proteins and transfer proteins create a consciousness. It's been an assumption but never proven.
No my friend, you have a fairy tale made from science. I have facts and evidence on mine ;)
@DStrike0083 If someone is clinically dead they can be resuscitated, if they are biologically dead then they get a tag on their toe.... It doesn't matter what happens during an NDE, there is no bridge between that and what happens after biological death. You are just a child scared of his mortality, news flash:
Life isn't a game of Mario kid, you only get one life.
@theBartone9119 lol kid? You know nothing of the research nor the evidence but yet claim to know it all.
I love how atheist cling to their science but have yet to read one scientific research. Oh here's a real life fact, just because you see it in movie does not mean it happens in real life. They don't tag your toe you idiot.
Tagging your "yes because when a scientist tells you that a person is dead, we should ignore him."
The only one ignoring anything is you. You seem to not understand the difference between clinical death and biological death. If someone is clinically dead they can be brought back to life which means they were never biologically dead. You also seem to not understand that these are near death experiences not after death experiences do whatever happens cannot be evidence of an afterlife.
@theBartone9119 do you mean the swiss electric probe? Have you read the article and compared it to American OBE?
the patient could only see her arms and legs. NDE see their entire body. Furthermore the patient did not see her head. NDE do see their heads. the patient stated that her arms and legs started getting shorter. NDE see their body normally, not shorter or longer.
so did they recreate obe? sure but it's nothing like NDE OBE.
@blightworm "what if the brain is reciever of consciousness not a producer?"
It's not, because neurologists can trace specific neural activity in the brain that occurs a certain amount of time before the consciousness picks up on the thought the activity produced. Since a cause is the rearrangement of matter that precedes it's effect, this means the brain is the producer. If it wasn't, then brain damage and chemical stimuli injections would not have an effect on consciousness, but it does.
This video is too out of context to be of any value. What's to say the DMT induced experience doesn't occur just before the cessation of brain function ? The person cannot provide an exact time or duration of the experience as they have no real world reference. What about NMDAR antagonism ? We'll never know the answer while we are still alive.
@Panthur6502 because there was a test on 10 brains frozen upon death. There were no traces of DMT. Although DMT metabolizes quickly, it takes at least 24 hours
@SonicCircuit There is much suggestive evidence and experiential evidence that point to consciousness beyond the brain. In 10 - 20 years when we figure out what consciousness is and how or what produces it, then it will get interesting as we will have opened up a new dimension of our universe: inner space.
@SonicCircuit No, no, you are not listening. As I have say: establish scientific knowledge based on experiments on both humans and animals concludes that no conscious experience is possible with flat EEG. The only support for the conscious experiences of the coma patients are their testimonies and one small experiment called Coma Tennis. But to get from here to established science knowledge, which would be a new paradigm takes time and much more evidence -- so, plenty of interesting work ahead.
@SonicCircuit True, coma patients have reported conscious experience -- BUT, the problem is that established scientific knowledge based on experiments is as I have just stated: no conscious experience w flat EEG. All Nelson has is theory that still needs to be proven, and until then he only has his belief. And no, while some supporters shout proof, official NDE research only claim evidence suggestive of consciousness beyond the brain. But even 'only' as such it is indeed very interesting.
@SonicCircuit That's all good, but there is a fatal flaw in your logic: the question is Not if a person is dead with flat EEG but how much consciousness is needed to produce conscious experience. Multiple scientific experiments on both animals and human have shown that with flat EEG the brain cannot produce conscious experience. Also Nelsons theory to disprove NDEs rests on the REM state and thus to enforce his faith and religion, he must make this unreasonable and unscientific argument.
and that's 3 times you've blocked my channels posting to here (morons like you censoring truth is why i have >1 channel...), because you are the same peado-cult conspiracy trying to disprove the fact that McKenna etc are correct about DMT.
you claimed the organisation you're a member of have lots of info on how LSD yields NDEs,
i asked you here to provide the links as a search of their site shows up nothing of the kind, and you still haven't managed to do so.
@JustSomePerson888 The censoring has Nothing to do with truth or censoring truth, but as I have said over and over again: RESPECTFUL discussion or debate. Mature people can argue respectfully so 'truth' is not dependent on insults. No freedom is absolute and if you ever want to have hopes of getting a job, you will have to learn to be civil some day. Now, if you don't like being blocked, well then stop the name calling and start showing some respect! Otherwise, let it go and go somewhere else.
..and besides being disrespectful, you are also wrong. I find DMT very interesting. But "the fact that McKenna etc. are correct" or that DMT is the new religion -- I just don't buy without convincing evidence. So, no, its not about censorship at all -- its all about backing up your claims instead of all this fundamentalism like in religion: "I know it all just trust me and follow me like a sheep." Sorry, in order to be objective you have to back up your claims -- that's how we get to truth.
So, we are back to the video: how can a chemical reaction in the brain, DMT, explain NDEs that occur during flat EEG and a brain that is inactive? This is the challenge and this is the debate here. Now, instead of all your insults, you could try to back up the claim that DMT is released naturally at death, but then you have also have to provide convincing evidence to show that this actually occurs. As the video, you need to provide the same level of scientific evidence and your mere opinions.
@JustSomePerson888 Two reasons I didn't do this job FOR you: 1) you claimed to be an expert on NDEs, so you should know this, 2) As a researcher in the field, I do not use internet sources, only literature and books. "The Psychology of Religion" mentions Hardy's study, which lists "psychedelic drugs" as a trigger p 187, and "The Near Death Experience: Problems, Prospects, Perspectives" says LSDs connection to NDEs is the release of symbolic "death-rebirth content from the unconscious." p 272
...you are a lazy NDE 'expert' - one minute on the internet brought this:
"Hallucinations and the NDE - LSD and Ketamine research" from near-deathDotcom but Google it
What is funny is that you know about McKenna but since you do not know about LSD you must not know Timothy Leary. You really need to up your NDE research, my friend.
Also Stanislav Groff originally pioneer LSD research, and in his book "Psychology of The Future" he mentioned that some of his cancer patients had NDEs both on LSD during his experiments and then later 'real' onces as they were dying of cancer. These people said that both experiences were identical and some even said the second 'real' NDE was more easy because they had been there before. Psychology of the Future, p 294
..So, are you now ready to show some respect? I told you already that you were barking up the wrong three -- we are actually on the same side here, and as an actual expert on NDEs, I could be a useful ally in your area of interest. All I ask, is that you let go of the DMT fundamentalism and open up to real objective investigation. LSD does the same as DMT and there are many doors that open to the same experience. And about the video, for DMT to win it must explain DMT release during flat EEG.
@DracOverLordHaton Yes, DMT seem to share some interesting similarities. BUT, so does lsd, ketamine, illness, intense fear or pain, spiritual inspiration,etc. - are all triggers of experiences that are either identical or very similar to NDEs. So, DMT is not alone and that is the point.
Fundamentalism is not what you believe in - but how your mind works and how you conduct yourself. Having a narrow perspective on DMT as THE explanation and using anger to enforce this view - is fundamentalism.
@NearDeathAwakening - again you ignore what i posted. so how can your books be any use, if you don't know how to look at a topic realistically, and repost the same things to people when they covered your points already?
you don't understand how to measure anything -
you cannot claim DMT isn't a death-process-chemical based upon the fact that other molecules cause experiences that are in general paranormal.
the point is that DMT produces experiences that are SPECIFIC matches to actual-death.
@NearDeathAwakening - do you understand why your reasoning is completely flawed?
yes, all psychedelics will cause peak experiences, spiritual awakeneings, paranormal experiences etc etc.
but however - only the freebase or snuff dmt compounds have effects that are very specific to known after-death states, such as actually clinically dying, and being taken up on a ufo by aliens / angels etc.
different molecules = different antenna to different frequencies of consciousness
@MannySteinerBleeky This is where you need to be careful not to sound like a religious person: all religions where prophets but only Jesus rose from the dead and is the Son of God. We do not know enough about psychedelics or DMT and there is no real hard evidence to back up your theories. UFOs, aliens and angels just doesn't cut is as real evidence. So, while DMT is interested and could have something to do with the NDE it is important to keep it at "could" and to let go of our angry defense.
@NearDeathAwakening - that is you trying to misuse language so it seems i am doing what you are doing - ignoring known truths and being illogical.
your problem is that you need to make people angry, you know we're right but you can't deal with the truth, so you don't reply to my correct points - instead you seek always to debunk via your own belief system, which disagrees with some type of religions.
we do know enough, w/o even science. read it again.
@MannySteinerBleeky You are so stubborn: as the video argues you need to explain how DMT, a chemical reaction, can account for an experience occurring when the brain is inactive. And this you need to do with theory based on real evidence. You may not like science but in the real world UFOs, alien abductions, etc. just doesn't count as evidence.
I don't agree that science has become the new religion. But there is a reason for this: before religion told sheep to believe blindly - today science simply says: prove it. It sounds like you want to go back to the days of being a blind sheep: you want us to simply accept UFOs, etc. Sorry, I don't accept this. In my research I actually study if 'other worlds' are real or a manifestation of our mind. This question I find more honest than simply accepting anything your mind shows you as "truth"
...you wouldn't even dare to ask this question because a negative answer scares you more than anything. That's fundamentalism - fear of finding out the truth - and that's why science and objectivity has won in our search for truth.
@NearDeathAwakening and that's why to make sure you got the last word you blocked my long lost 3rd cousin. Why don't you respect her opinions, you filthy gerbil? Also i never saw you state a question, you made a lot of statements though. Why don't you ask us this question with a question mark(s)??? Then maybe you can find the negative answer you claimed will scare us.
How about you chew on this philosophical query for a moment: What doth life?
@Silvamedalist NO angry disrespectful language or name calling goes for you as well. IF you teen-agers can't discuss or debate in a civil and respectful manner, go somewhere else! The question is still the challenge put forward in the video: how can a chemical reaction, DMT, account for NDEs that occur when the brain is inactive? The answer to this sound contain an reasonable standard of evidence - not mere opinion or for out UFOs stuff.
@NearDeathAwakening - also the fact you even keep mentioning religions when no-one else did, suggests your real angle is the same as a certain other fake (gnostic media) who needs to prove jesus etc didn't exist and who also has a vested interest in proving mckenna's wrong about mushrooms - because they are right about mushrooms. and right about dmt.
you could learn from The Invisible Landscape, many important things.
@NearDeathAwakening - btw enoch got taken up on his merkabah (the bioenegetic field that is a natural ufo that all life has around it) to the lord also, the bible etc doesn't say only jesus resurrected at all.
there's a rich history of accounts of ascension.
the Tibetian and Egyptian books of the dead i mentioned earlier, are all about going up that way. or out that way.
'sceintific rationalism' 's public version is merely the lens of Set wrongly focused.
@MannySteinerBleeky And you are barking up the wrong tree. I have studied all the books: Egyptian, Tibetan Book of the Dead, etc. AND I actually AGREE with you on many points BUT the issue is that its not between you and me, but between us and the mainstream: you want to get the people who don't know on board, right? Well, then you/we need real evidence based on science. Sorry, but those are the rules of the mainstream.
@NearDeathAwakening - the issue isn't between me or whoever else and the mainstream, since polls show things like most ordinary people believe in angels and ufo's etc.
you are out of touch with reality, its 'normal' people having NDEs, UFO encounters, paranormal experiences. they know it's real.
same way that's how i know it's real, and how i knew i lived in an oppressive reality run by evil since it denied truth, i'm no different to any other real Earth human, we're multidimensional gaians..
@JustSomePerson888 You are out of touch with reality: sure, these experiences are real to the experiencers - but how do we convince the real or mainstream world? Science and not UFO sightings on DMT.
@MannySteinerBleeky Just keep it short and respectful. As the video, I am simply claiming that DMT, which is a chemical reaction in the brain cannot account for NDEs that occur when the brain is inactive. This hurdle you have to overcome with a theory that is based on real evidence, not your own theories. Until you or anyone else overcome this hurdle, it is not my reasoning that is flawed but the idea that DMT explains the NDE.
maybe you missed it, but i explained that the flatline isn't the issue - the dmt is involved in the actual death, and since the actual death = your soul being hurtled out of your crown chakra, or prana tube, whatever terms you prefer, then it can be seen how a chemical reaction leads to a soul leaving the body.
science is based on observation first - and most psychics agree that souls leaving bodies stay attached via
now we also know things like Kirlian photography show bioenergetic fields, and some orgone research also shows similar,
if you want to scientifically investigate death then you need a means of measuring subtle energy, however you could try looking at ITC and EVP - these appraoches seem to work based on same principal as why some people's energy fields can do things like interfere with lighting.
@MannySteinerBleeky ...and actually an apology is in order, my friend. Personal attacks on peoples profiles because you can't get what you want or force people to agree with you is very immature. These are the actions of a fundamentalist. A sign that you understand this would give you some good will back.
@NearDeathAwakening - yes i agree your conspiracy owes me and others very big apologies.
but you don't believe in jesus anyway so you'd understand that i never forgive anyone, cause i know if they deserve it then they've stopped being evil anyway.
@MannySteinerBleeky Listen, you got really rude when you couldn't get things your way AND then you went after people with you personal attacks on someone's profile. All this while the other side did nothing of this kind. Your actions were very aggressive and far beyond respectable debate - but of course, as a fundamentalist you are totally blind of your own actions and that is the problem. And there is no conspiracy (expect in your mind): just a challenge to prove your DMT theory - that's all.
@phuketsigel Yes, I agree: without the fundamentalism and the attempt to establish dmt as a new religion, we can begin to look at the possible parallels with an objective mind. Certainly there seem to be some interesting similarities that deserve additional investigation.
@phuketsigel No measurable output means no brain activity. Also the question is not if some unmeasurable level might still be present but how much activity is needed. Don't throw around "nonsense" till you fully understand a topic. And "how can they prove there is no dmt around" is the purpose of the video: to show that dmt is not a new exclusive religion that has a patent on everything. Lsd also trigger the NDE. Fundamentalism is fundamentalism until you prove that dmt is the trigger.
@LightBehindGod DMT SEPARATES THE CONSCIOUSNESS FROM THE BODY SO THERE WOULD BE NO BRAIN WAVES, When you ingest DMT you are pure consciousness.
DMT is the body's natural stress mechanism , when the body is under high loads of stress DMT is released , just like the Colorado river toad releases DMT venom when its stressed,. It is also released during times of meditation and spiritual experiences.
@liquidblue82 That may be it's function, but still DMT is a chemical reaction in the brain that creates brain activity. Also experiencing stress without brain activity, does not sound logical. Anyway, the point is that also e.g. Ketamine and lsd produce NDEs and similar experiences - so, DMT is not the new religion that has a patent on everything else. This is the point.
@ReneJorgensenDotCom - what chemicals are you thinking will be found to be the triggers of releasing the soul or astral body then?
if you understand that things like ghosts exist, which makes complete sense to anyone that knows about things like NDEs - plus lots of psychics etc see the world that way all the time, with all the astrals and the auric energy in it, then of course an entity can be stressed but not have a body.
Ketamine is more OBEs is it not, I never got a chance at that one.
@MannySteinerBIeeky I don't know the answer to that question - and that is also the point: without certain information and evidence, its a bit premature to claim DMT is the new God.
@ReneJorgensenDotCom - why do you keep saying that, about dmt being the new god? it sounds the complete opposite way that anyone who knows about this would say about something like that.
it's best to look for answers at - what indigenous cultures have known all along. they all agree globally and they all live in harmony with the planet and their cultures understand after-death states better.
also you do have to take these compounds to understand anything about them or examine them.
@ReneJorgensenDotCom - are you coming at this topic from a Harvard view, ie the Bardo Thodol Psychedelic manual? there's differences between OBEs and NDEs, an NDE isn't just feeling like you are dead either. I'd agree with the Harvard view, that you can have a guide or similar to help your consciousness access those states the Tibetian and Egyptian Books of the Dead knew about, between here and the world of death resurrection all that. but the DMT compounds propel you there w/o the guidance.
@LightBehindGod - what LSD does is very very different to what DMT does. i'm not aware of many NDE-like reports with LSD? but DMTs trip reports do sound more like 'natural' NDEs and things like 'alien abduction'. it's the same as how the natural occurances in plants are not the same experientially when the synthesised versions are taken, but you can tell they're a manufactured version of the same thing. the intelligence (of the molecule)remains but it's like a simulacrum, and it knows it is too.
@MannySteinerBIeeky Then you don't know much about NDEs (which is the problem with most people who want to establish DMT as the new religion) LSD is known within NDE research as a standard trigger of OBEs and NDEs, knownfor over 30 years - look at iands.org.
@ReneJorgensenDotCom - i've done a lot of research on psychedelics and NDEs for many years. iands i don't know, but i'll have a look at it.
but what tou're saying is all wrong, no psychedelic people or heads would be dumb enough to think in terms of any molecule or specific plant being = god, they are too clued up to go down such cognitive paths of delusion.
can't say tho i ever heard of an LSD trip report anything like an NDE report, except one.
@MannySteinerBIeeky My friend, I don't mean to be rude but if you don't know IANDS - you don't know much about NDEs. IANDS is the International Association for Near Death Studies - the leading research organization of NDEs. I have been a member since 2005, published 3 books on NDEs.
The point is that many DMT supporter promote DMT as a religion - meaning they claim DMT explains the NDE and everything else. DMT is interesting and there could be a link - but some DMT supporters need to cool.
@ReneJorgensenDotCom - that's retarded, how can one organisation be some authority on what shamans and tribespeople and pagans etc have known all along.
i researched it before the world wide web was a major factor in people's lives, i don't know how old that organisation is.
besides which - where are the LSD articles you say they have there then?
have you even tried any psychedelics at all?, you don't seem aware of much about them.
@MannySteinerBIeeky You need to show some respect here. I have done most drugs and had an NDE on lsd 11 years ago, studied sharmanism, etc. so you are not talking to someone who doesn't know what he is talking about. You, on the other hand said that you have studied NDEs for many years - not that IANDS is the authority in that sense - but if you haven't come across the organization you have not looked very deep into NDEs.
..and this point leads back to the video: its so easy to claim that DMT explains the NDE and everything else when you don't know enough about NDEs. IF you had known enough about NDEs, like the research of IANDS, you would know that NDEs seem to occur when the brain is inactive. Opposite DMT as a chemical reaction creates activity in the brain, and unless DMT can overcome this problem it is not a valid theory to explain the NDE.
@MannySteinerBIeeky You have been blocked for rude and offensive language: you WILL show respect here on my channel, you teen anger.
I don't have time to find the many quotes linking lsd to NDEs (try "about NDEs" and google NDEs and psychedelics). Also, this is btw something you should know if you really knew about NDEs.
@ReneJorgensenDotCom - i searched for LSD at the website iands but it's only showing up 6 links, and they don't seem to be anything beyond the generalised info on psychedelics having trigger effects of phenomena known by other names, like OBEs and NDEs and anything paranormal...
also some of those reports are not of NDEs at all.
NDEs are when you clinically die, plus remember going to heaven or hell or similar, then come back to life again cause they restarted your heart or some such.
@MannySteinerBIeeky IANDS operate with two concepts: NDE and NDLE (Near Death Like Experience). The focus on clinical death is a technicality and something pushed by the mainstream - but identical experience happen under many different circumstances: illness, intense fear or pain (like child birth), drugs like Ketamine and lsd, and during spiritual inspiration like meditation or deep prayer.
the dmt part is what causes your soul to fire out of your body. if you aren't really dead - if you are able to return to the body as with an NDE - then your soul likely has remained attached to the body with what some psychics etc refer to as an astral chord.
this is also why it's similar to alien-abductions cause you'll likely end up in someplace like that after you die too. especially if you haven't paid attention in life and require vetting due to spiritual laziness.
@TheEveryhingGuy - no probs, i'm one of those people who's soul is all split up cause of the evil time-abusers, as detailed in the KOALA montauk info, where tahuti / thoth explains incarnations here, so i can attest that dmt undoubtedly is connected to death, cause when i took it the 'galactic immigration' (4d astral that keeps this reality soul-enslaved & frequency-controlled) that ws burroughs wrote about thought i was entirely dead, and it affected other times & places too.
But. The real controversy is TIMING of the actual NDE experience. It is not yet known if the experience is occurring AT brain death, not at dying or regaining consciousness, for that we need independent observer corroboration.
With that, -note that if one is to assume that the NDE or life after death occurs OUTSIDE observable reality, the issue becomes unfalsifiable in principle just like existence of God and thus will cease to be of concern to science.
@dharmanova Well you have millions of people claiming NDE with OOBE's and DMT users WHo have had NDE/OOBE's,that and Millions of people believing GOD exists and the whole Both are Unfalsifiable.
SO,my point is that hoping over to the Theist side although could be Premature is not Irrational;-)
Because the brain its self has no external frame of reference to the outside world's time a mere second of time to us watching the person having the NDE could be a whole eternity, thus it is possible that if the body senses death and cardiac arrest is about to happen, the penal gland steps in to push out DMT so as to numb the trauma of dying. An EEG does not sense the electrical activity in the deeper areas of the brain thus a flat line doesn't mean the brain has stopped working.
@draakisback That logic is flawed and slippery: The real question is how much electrical activity is needed for clear conscious experience, like the NDE, and here flat EEG is not enough. Also a DMT reaction in the brain would show up on the EEG. For the DMT theory to hold it must explain how the experience can occur in a state where DMT cannot occur. It cannot and thus falls shot.
@LightBehindGod The brain is physical matter vibrating at a particular frequency. Consciousness does not vibrate at that same speed, or it would have been mapped already. N,n Dimethyltryptamine is but a key that fits in a lock. The real "magic" is on(within) another, higher spacial dimension. You have a lot to learn my friend.
@weepingmidwinter That's quite arrogant - not something you would learn on the other side. I agree the fundamental level is energy, extra dimensions etc. but for now we have to begin where we are and with the evidence we have. This evidence clearly suggest that DMT is not the new religion to replace all other religions - so stop acting like an arrogant religious fundamentalist.
@LightBehindGod When did I say it was a new religion? The DMT doesn't do anything by itself, it simply helps humans do something they already can. Btw, the evidence that "we" have, and the evidence that I have are different yo. Strassman himself only theorized that DMT was produced by the brain. This has yet to be proven, and as exciting as this would be, I am tired of people saying that DMT causes dreams/NDEs. That is ignorance my friend.
@HaphazardCrappola Also the amount of people who claim to have these experiences, holds as much weight as the amount of people who claim to have been abducted by aliens and experimented on. There are natural phenomena which can adequately explain things like these, and only an irrational mind would jump to supernatural conclusions.
theBartone9119 2 weeks ago
@theBartone9119 KGB scientist George Rodonaia had a NDE. He was dead for 3 days.
HaphazardCrappola 2 weeks ago
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@HaphazardCrappola "KGB scientist George Rodonaia had a NDE. He was dead for 3 days."
He was not dead. A doctor began to make an incision in his body and he snapped out whatever state he was in...If he was dead, he wouldn't be alive now to tell his story. Death is defined as permanent, and unless the body begins to decay then the person never really died because natural body decay is a property of death. Just like if a substance isn't H20 then it wasn't water, if the body doesn't decay...well.
theBartone9119 2 weeks ago
@HaphazardCrappola Also if he actually had an experience it would have been as he was in the process of dying. Also the university of Kentucky did a study showing that REM intrusions can occur even while someone is clinically dead, so NDEs are no good evidence of an afterlife. Especially because they are NEAR death experiences, not AFTER death experiences. Even the name discredits NDEs as evidence of an afterlife.
theBartone9119 2 weeks ago
@theBartone9119 LOL they are called Near Death Experience because the person came back to life and hence is not DEAD. REM means the mind is aware while the body is asleep. Are you suggesting based on ONE study that the NDEer's are AWARE that they are dead? Because I agree. That is basically what they say based on their experiences that they are aware that they are dead and can make either a conscious decision to come back, not come back or forced to come back by doctors.
HaphazardCrappola 2 weeks ago
@HaphazardCrappola All I'm suggesting is that there is no solid evidence that these experiences are supernatural or indicate that life continues forever after death.
theBartone9119 2 weeks ago
@theBartone9119 And there is no evidence to the contrary.
HaphazardCrappola 2 weeks ago
You know, it really means its of more importance if you don't use it when you die.
xcelerate1000 1 month ago
Lol, Pam Reynolds. I can't even begin to recount the times I've seen her experience in particular be exaggerated beyond the point of ridicule.
"It has been pointed out that proponents have generally misrepresented the amount of time which Reynolds was flatlined[9]: the actual surgical timeline suggests that her brain stem activity was fully flatlined for a period of five to six minutes"
Even funnier is when the religious use her NDE as "proof", even though it had NO religious elements at all.
ogith 1 month ago
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@DStrike0083 Since near-death isn't actually death (just like going near a finish line isn't crossing the finish line), then any NDE cannot be proof of an afterlife. Just like whatever happens right before you cross a finish line is not evidence of what happens after you cross it. You have no basis for a case Mr. "Toe Tags Are Only In Movies" lol
theBartone9119 1 month ago
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theBartone9119 1 month ago
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@DStrike0083 "They don't tag your toe you idiot."
Yes they do moron lol
Toe tag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"A toe tag is a piece of cardboard normally attached with string to the big toe of a dead person in a morgue"
If you don't even know toe tags were real then that just proves you are a person who has no clue what they are talking about.
theBartone9119 1 month ago
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@DStrike0083 "btw we're not talking about god. We're talking about consciousness. Traditional science see consciousness as a by-product of the brain. But if the brain is not functioning, then how are these people still able to see what they see."
How do you know that the experience that they recall was an experience they had while the brain was not functioning? That makes no sense, it's much more likely they are recalling experiences they had while the brain was dying, not while it was dead.
theBartone9119 1 month ago
science still need to explain how clear consciousness can be reported with flat EEG..... Science already shows that everything is consciousness. Hard to keep up with the facts in this day of instant info lol
Okam85 1 month ago
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Okam85 1 month ago
This video is idiotic because there is no way to prove that the the patient had the experience during brain death and not while the brain was in the process of dying. The patient is most likely recalling an experience had as the brain was releasing mass amounts of DMT before brain death, not an experience had during brain death. This should be common sense.
theBartone9119 1 month ago
@theBartone9119 strange, what causes DMT to flow into the brain upon death? No the pineal gland does not produce DMT at death. In fact DMT has never been proven to be created at mass quantity upon death.
DStrike0083 1 month ago
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@DStrike0083 "No the pineal gland does not produce DMT at death"
I never said it did moron, I said it produces the DMT as the brain is dying, not while it's dead. Dying is a process it's not like flicking a light switch on and off.
"In fact DMT has never been proven to be created at mass quantity upon death."
It's also never been proven that NDEs are spiritual, common sense tells us they aren't though. Also studies have been done which show evidence that the DMT release is likely. Nice try..
theBartone9119 1 month ago
@DStrike0083 Also DMT isn't the only thing in the brain that can trigger vivid hallucinations, the brain probably does some weird things as it dies. So far throughout history things people gave supernatural explanations for have been proven wrong, so why should this be any different? People used to think storms were God punishing them, nope it's just wind conditions. People used to think a God would eat the sun on occasion, nope just an eclipse. The supernatural ALWAYS loses to science.
theBartone9119 1 month ago
@theBartone9119 lol you go on and on about science but give no explanation for the experience. You start with DMt and I proved that DMt is not produced during the NDE.
So please tell me what is this weird thing? nice try with your excuses. Please try again when you have actual research =)
DStrike0083 1 month ago
@theBartone9119 btw we're not talking about god. We're talking about consciousness. Traditional science see consciousness as a by-product of the brain. But if the brain is not functioning, then how are these people still able to see what they see.
idk what your deal is about god or being atheist but we're talking about consciousness, not religion.
DStrike0083 1 month ago
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theBartone9119 1 month ago
@DStrike0083 Remember, just because someone's brain stopped functioning and they recall an experience, doesn't mean the experience they are recalling happened while the brain was not functioning. The brain dying is a process it's not like flipping a light switch on and off, it's more likely that these people had these weird experiences as the brain was dying not while it was dead. Make sense?
theBartone9119 1 month ago
@theBartone9119 under traditional biology, the theory is when the heart stops and the brain has no eeg, you are dead. Consciousness cannot exist. What part of the traditional theory of biology don't you understand?
futhermore, firs you argued DMT which has been proven incorrectly and now you argue susan blackmore dying brain theory which has been proven wrong. what's your next theory? Low oxygen?
DStrike0083 1 month ago
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@DStrike0083 How "under traditional biology, the theory is when the heart stops and the brain has no eeg, you are dead. Consciousness cannot exist. What part of the traditional theory of biology don't you understand?"
REM intrusions can still occur in the brain stem even if someone is brain dead. Either way there is no evidence that these experiences happen when the brain is dead anyway, I already told you these people are most likely recalling experiences they had as the brain was dying.
theBartone9119 1 month ago
@DStrike0083 "firs you argued DMT which has been proven incorrectly"
No it hasn't, you are just making things up to make your fairy tales more plausible. It is very likely that DMT gets released in large amounts as the brain dies, also you must not know what happens when the brain loses oxygen and the eyes shut down but people see a white light at the end of a tunnel, hence why they call it tunnel vision. Why are you so scared of your mortality?
theBartone9119 1 month ago
@theBartone9119 oh do you have any scientific study that dmt produces upon NDE? Let me guess, you saw rick strassman DMT video on youtube. Well here's something you didn't know about, neither strassman or any other researcher has proven that large amount of DMT occur upon death. If you have a peer review article, I would gladly see it. But unfortunately you don't. Keep guessing, it has to be correct.
also if low oxygen occurs then why do most Asian NDE not have them?
DStrike0083 1 month ago
@DStrike0083 So lets recap:
1) Clinical death is reversible, Biological death is not so NDEs cannot be evidence of what happens after biological death
2) There is no evidence that the recalled experiences happened while they were clinically dead. (Just because the person was clinically dead before they verbalized their experience, doesn't mean the experience happened while clinically dead.)
3) The Kentucky study proves that REM Intrusions can occur while the higher brain is dead.
You lose.
theBartone9119 1 month ago
@theBartone9119
so let's see here
1) so we should ignore experts on the subject.
2) Veridical nde and people who can recount things occurring when there is no EEG
3) UK study showed rem intrusion more likely in NDE. It did not account for all NDE. Only 60% had rem intrusion, the other 40% didn't. What about the other 40%?
nope I'm still winning. So what's next? back to DMT? dying brain? ketamine? rem intrusion? come on I've seen them all.
try again kid. You might win someday
DStrike0083 1 month ago
@DStrike0083 Lol you are funny, there is no evidence that these experiences happened during the clinical death, there is only evidence the person recalled what happened after she was clinically dead. You are too uneducated to know that clinical death and biological death are not the same thing, you ignore experts in science who have theorized about plausible natural causes for NDE's, and you didn't even know toe tags were real. Not only do you lose the debate, you lose at life.
theBartone9119 1 month ago
@theBartone9119 let's see, aware project and cool project. You place an image near the top of the ceiling, nobody in the room can see it, patients are placed in the room during cardiac arrest and out when they are stabilized. Yet people are able to see the pictures were no one else could and their eyes were closed.
yep nothing here folks. just some loser who know nothing about the research
DStrike0083 1 month ago
@DStrike0083 You have to:
a) Somehow provide proof that the the experiences recalled happened during clinical death and not while the brain was dying
b) Make a case while acknowledging the difference between clinical death and biological death
Then you have some grounds for a case for NDEs indicating an afterlife. You clearly haven't met your burden of proof and have proven yourself a joke by saying that don't tag your toes..
theBartone9119 1 month ago
@theBartone9119 aware and cool study. Maybe you should read a little before complaining
DStrike0083 1 month ago
@DStrike0083 And the DMT theory has no been proven wrong, any more bullshit you want to spew?
theBartone9119 1 month ago
@theBartone9119 has no been proven wrong? Ok let me simplify this so your small brain can understand.
1) you see there is this guy name rick strassman who you claim is your dmt god.
2) he stated that dmt occurs in the body(true)
3) he states that dmt occurs upon death and in the pineal gland(wrong)
No research has ever proven that as a fact. I know it's hard but please try
DStrike0083 1 month ago
@DStrike0083 If the person lived to tell the story, they didn't really die. They were in a state that was almost indistinguishable from death because it was close (hence why they call it a near death experience). The higher brain may be completely shut down, but it can work at lower levels that scanners can't pick up and REM intrusions can occur. Other experiences are most likely when the brain is dying, it goes virtually dead, then the recall the experience they had as it was dying. Try again.
theBartone9119 1 month ago
@theBartone9119 lol what are you babbling on about. First your DMT theory was proven wrong and your god strassman ridicule, then you used the dying brain theory and your god susan blackmore was wrong, and now you're trying to disprove your own rem intrusion study. And yes I believe an expert in rem intrusion would know more than you and wikipedia. Like the expert wouldn't have thought of that.
got any other theory?
DStrike0083 1 month ago
@DStrike0083 Yes I've heard of the study, and nobody has been able to identify the pictures. You lose.
theBartone9119 1 month ago
@theBartone9119 maybe because the results aren't out yet? wow you must be really dumb. How can you know the answers when the results aren't even publish?
DStrike0083 1 month ago
@DStrike0083 "you see there is this guy name rick strassman who you claim is your dmt god" actually I don't even know who that is, how can you be taken seriously when you are saying I made claims I never did?
"No research has ever proven that as a fact"
But you said it was proven wrong...Just because something hasn't been proven correct doesn't mean it has been proven wrong, are you that stupid?
It's clear you have no clue what you are talking about, keep clinging to supernatural fairy tales.
theBartone9119 1 month ago
@theBartone9119 ah so I see now, DMT, never proven to be released during death===========existence.
yes more scientists should be like you. make an assumption and it becomes true. Yes let's do no further research. Keep believing in your retarded assumptions. Let's not even look at the research, Pussies like you can't read scientific research, Pussies are only good for making sandwiches. Go to the kitchen pussy and make me a sandwhich
DStrike0083 1 month ago
@DStrike0083 It's so obvious that NDEs are just tricks of the brain, anyone who thinks it's a link to a supernatural world needs to get their head examined.
theBartone9119 1 month ago
@theBartone9119 ok what trick of the mind? Go ahead and show your scientific research. Oh wait that's right you don't have any and all your research has been disproven
DStrike0083 1 month ago
@DStrike0083 How has it been disproven? What study is there that disrproves that DMT gets released in mass amounts at death? Oh ya that's, right it doesn't exist. Also DMT being released in mass amounts at death is simply the most likely explanation based on what we know about the brain regardless of whether it has been proven. Why don't you stop believing in fairy tales about a supernatural afterlife when it's clear this is the only life you get. You are scared so you deny your mortality.
theBartone9119 1 month ago
@theBartone9119 I wouldn't say that THAT's clear either, though. DMT could very plausibly be the chemical gateway for the soul which could still very possibly exist independently of the body. It would help to explain why science still can't track down consciousness inside the brain. I'm mostly with you. This video is truly retarded. I just don't think anyone has proven the non-existence of a soul.
geoffstockton 3 weeks ago
@geoffstockton "DMT could very plausibly be the chemical gateway for the soul"
I highly doubt it. DMT is a chemical release which acts on the brain meaning it can only have a cause/ effect relationship with something biological.
" It would help to explain why science still can't track down consciousness inside the brain"
This makes no sense, how can you "track down" consciousness? If you effect the brain a certain way you can lose consciousness,this indicates consciousness is due to the brain
theBartone9119 3 weeks ago
@theBartone9119 DMT working on the clinically dead doesn't seem very biological to me. A living creature is classified as living due to the body physically working. Having DMT work on a brain that has ceased to produce brain waves/functioning contradicts the definition of life.
HaphazardCrappola 2 weeks ago
@HaphazardCrappola The DMT release would occur as the brain was dying. Life and death isn't like flipping a light switch on and off, it's a process. Death is also defined as: "The permanent cessation of all vital functions; Bodies of living organisms begin to decompose shortly after death."
Did the patient end up having enough vital functions to tell the story of their experience? Yes. Did their body decompose? No.
This means that saying this person died, contradicts the definition of Death.
theBartone9119 2 weeks ago
@theBartone9119 You cannot use the word death as a definition of the term death. Death cannot mean "bodies of living organisms that begin to decompose shortly after death". One does not need to see a decomposing body to know that a person is dead.
HaphazardCrappola 2 weeks ago
@HaphazardCrappola "Clinical" death is the equivalent of "almost, but no cigar" as far as death is concerned.
theBartone9119 2 weeks ago
@theBartone9119 I don't have time trying to educate left-brain slaves.
geoffstockton 2 weeks ago
@geoffstockton If you had any education about science or neurology, you would know that NDE's have to do with the brain and there is nothing supernatural about it.
theBartone9119 2 weeks ago
@theBartone9119 If you had an ability to say something that wasn't a direct quote from your years of school indoctrination, you would see how big of a douchebag you seem to be to the rest of us.
geoffstockton 2 weeks ago
@geoffstockton If you had the ability to accept reality for what it really is instead of trying to deny your own mortality, then you wouldn't come off as such an uneducated person when it comes to subjects like near death experience's and science. As far as indoctrination goes, I reject all religious indoctrination but it seems clear you are clinging to one form of it to be so keen to believe in an afterlife that doesn't exist...Just sayin.
theBartone9119 2 weeks ago
@theBartone9119 You are obviously too retarded to see how modern science is a religious indoctrination all it's own, designed to keep you from the truth. Go ahead and respond with whatever you want. I won't be wasting any more time on your arrogant ignorance. It seems that all you do is sit on your ass on youtube and abuse anyone who doesn't buy the bullshit they were taught in school like you do. You're a loser and a very sad person. Fuck off!
geoffstockton 2 weeks ago
@geoffstockton "modern science is a religious indoctrination all it's own" This comment just proved you are a retard. Grow a brain before opening your mouth, it might help you sound less moronic.
theBartone9119 2 weeks ago
@theBartone9119 So how exactly do we know if you're a reliable source on neurology? Are you a scientist/neurologist who spends his time arguing on youtube?
brian92992 2 weeks ago
@theBartone9119 Did you even watch the video? The neuroscientist said that the patient's brain was completely absent of metabolic activity as well as nerve impulses. Therefore she was dead and what she was experiencing certainly wasn't her brain.
brian92992 2 weeks ago
@brian92992
The brain stem which is responsible REM intrusions can be active an cause these intrusions to occur during clinical brain death, which was a conclusion regarding NDE's which was made by the University of Kentucky and it was verified. Also there is no evidence the experience didn't take place during the 15 - 20 seconds it takes for the clinical death to happen after cardiac arrest. There are too many natural explanations to logically invoke a supernatural one that makes no sense.
theBartone9119 2 weeks ago
@theBartone9119 Well there are several NDE stories about people who have been dead for hours or even days. Also, everyone who has an NDE reports the experience to feel very real (sometimes "even more real than this reality"), not like a dream.
brian92992 2 weeks ago
@brian92992 "Well there are several NDE stories about people who have been dead for hours or even days"
Did they live to tell the story? Then they didn't die...Death is defined as the permanent cessation of vital bodily functions (permanent being the key word)
"Also, everyone who has an NDE reports the experience to feel very real, not like a dream."
Yes if you ever tried the drug DMT then you would experience things that seemed real like you were in another dimension, just a trick of the brain
theBartone9119 2 weeks ago
@theBartone9119 I personally haven't tried DMT but a number of my friends have as well as many people on erowid.org. I have yet to meet a person or hear of a person who's had a trip similar to the dying experiences I've heard of. DMT trips are more about changing colors, geometrical shapes, and a bunch of other "trippy" things. People "trip" on DMT. People dying don't really "trip", that's what I mean by their experiences being more "real".
brian92992 2 weeks ago
@DStrike0083 Your logic is utterly retarded, you think that just because something hasn't been proven 100% that means it has been disproven? Only a complete moron would say something like that, it has never been disrproven that DMT gets released in mass amounts at death. Also, it has been proven that REM intrusions can occur while the higher brain is not functioning (University of Kentucky research). There are countless explanations for NDEs, you are just too stupid to accept them.
theBartone9119 1 month ago
@DStrike0083 How am I trying to disprove the REM theory? You seem to forget that there are many different types of NDE's, some may be triggered by DMT, some may be triggered by REM intrusions. It's clear you just try to cling to whatever theory helps you believe in an afterlife...Aww how cute, news flash though moron:
When you die, that's it.....Deep down you know it but you feel that if you believe in the afterlife while you are alive it will make death easier to cope with. Pussy.
theBartone9119 1 month ago
@theBartone9119 because their research was flawed beyond belief
h t t p :// iands. org/ images/ stories/ pdf_ downloads/ long holdenremintrusion. p d f
pussy? wow how intelligent of you. that in and of itself shows why you know nothing.
DStrike0083 1 month ago
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theBartone9119 1 month ago
@DStrike0083 Also since you think consciousness is impossible when your brain dead then even you admit the experience couldn't have taken place while brain dead. NDE's are conscious experiences. You just keep taking the foundations of your arguments right from underneath them.
theBartone9119 1 month ago
@theBartone9119 nope, you argue under the materialistic approach that consciousness occurs from the brain. You're arguing that NDE are caused by DMT or dying brain theory. Guess what? Both are wrong and has never been proven.
So what does that mean? It means that there's a possibility that consciousness is separate from the brain. That's all I'm arguing. You can listen to all the fake youtube video you want but I have science on my side.
DStrike0083 1 month ago
@DStrike0083 You have no science on your side. You just claim you do without any evidence.
"You're arguing that NDE are caused by DMT or dying brain theory. Guess what? Both are wrong and has never been proven."
Here's one point that shuts your whole argument down: It's a near death experience, not an after death experience meaning that whatever was experienced could not be evidence of anything that happens once you are dead.
theBartone9119 1 month ago
@theBartone9119 lol is that how you're going to attack me? First arguing dmt and not rejecting the idea? What about your survival brain theory. For a rationalist, you sure make irrational observations
DStrike0083 1 month ago
@DStrike0083 If you want to talk about studies look up the university of kentucky study that provides evidence that REM intrusions can still occur when the higher brain is dead. That is science, the supernatural (afterlife theories) have nothing to do with science and are backed up by squat. There is no evidence that these people are recalling experiences had WHILE brain dead, not a single shred of evidence. I already destroyed your argument by mentioning it is a NEAR death experience.
theBartone9119 1 month ago
@theBartone9119 funny you mention the UK study. The researcher stated that it might contribute but is not the cause of NDE. In rem intrusion, people see bits and pieces and odd things like normal dreaming. Whereas nde is one continuous story. did you read the study?
So you have not heard of veridical nde. You know when someone has no BP, no EEG, and science says they're dead. They come back around and tell you that they had an OBE and saw what the doctors did?
DStrike0083 1 month ago
@DStrike0083 How can a NEAR death experience be evidence of what happens AFTER death? Think about it, there is no logic in using NDE's as evidence of an afterlife. If the person lived to tell the story then they didn't die, they were simply clinically dead (not the same as biological death) and were resuscitated. I have science on my side, you have fairy tales...Good luck with that :)
theBartone9119 1 month ago
@theBartone9119 yes because when a scientist tells you that a person is dead, we should ignore him.
science on your side? Science can't even explain how a bunch of cells that create proteins and transfer proteins create a consciousness. It's been an assumption but never proven.
No my friend, you have a fairy tale made from science. I have facts and evidence on mine ;)
DStrike0083 1 month ago
@DStrike0083 If someone is clinically dead they can be resuscitated, if they are biologically dead then they get a tag on their toe.... It doesn't matter what happens during an NDE, there is no bridge between that and what happens after biological death. You are just a child scared of his mortality, news flash:
Life isn't a game of Mario kid, you only get one life.
theBartone9119 1 month ago
@theBartone9119 lol kid? You know nothing of the research nor the evidence but yet claim to know it all.
I love how atheist cling to their science but have yet to read one scientific research. Oh here's a real life fact, just because you see it in movie does not mean it happens in real life. They don't tag your toe you idiot.
DStrike0083 1 month ago
Tagging your "yes because when a scientist tells you that a person is dead, we should ignore him."
The only one ignoring anything is you. You seem to not understand the difference between clinical death and biological death. If someone is clinically dead they can be brought back to life which means they were never biologically dead. You also seem to not understand that these are near death experiences not after death experiences do whatever happens cannot be evidence of an afterlife.
theBartone9119 1 month ago
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theBartone9119 1 month ago
@DStrike0083 Even out of Body experiences can be recreated in a lab at anytime at will and it all has to due with the brain..
theBartone9119 1 month ago
@theBartone9119 do you mean the swiss electric probe? Have you read the article and compared it to American OBE?
the patient could only see her arms and legs. NDE see their entire body. Furthermore the patient did not see her head. NDE do see their heads. the patient stated that her arms and legs started getting shorter. NDE see their body normally, not shorter or longer.
so did they recreate obe? sure but it's nothing like NDE OBE.
DStrike0083 1 month ago
@blightworm "what if the brain is reciever of consciousness not a producer?"
It's not, because neurologists can trace specific neural activity in the brain that occurs a certain amount of time before the consciousness picks up on the thought the activity produced. Since a cause is the rearrangement of matter that precedes it's effect, this means the brain is the producer. If it wasn't, then brain damage and chemical stimuli injections would not have an effect on consciousness, but it does.
theBartone9119 1 month ago
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theBartone9119 1 month ago
nde s have nothing to do with dmt, anyone who does enough research will find this out easily.
8Recon8 2 months ago
This video is too out of context to be of any value. What's to say the DMT induced experience doesn't occur just before the cessation of brain function ? The person cannot provide an exact time or duration of the experience as they have no real world reference. What about NMDAR antagonism ? We'll never know the answer while we are still alive.
Panthur6502 2 months ago
@Panthur6502 because there was a test on 10 brains frozen upon death. There were no traces of DMT. Although DMT metabolizes quickly, it takes at least 24 hours
DStrike0083 1 month ago
EGO is Edging God Out = DMT experience = Kundalini = Samadhi
SangMarocain 3 months ago
mate died twice within a hour and remembers the event very clearly so hah
MrPundaddy 4 months ago
yea... yet when they come back, they remember shit, which means they fucken went someone when they died and came back. they left their body!!!
ovechkin100 4 months ago
@SonicCircuit There is much suggestive evidence and experiential evidence that point to consciousness beyond the brain. In 10 - 20 years when we figure out what consciousness is and how or what produces it, then it will get interesting as we will have opened up a new dimension of our universe: inner space.
NearDeathAwakening 6 months ago
@SonicCircuit No, no, you are not listening. As I have say: establish scientific knowledge based on experiments on both humans and animals concludes that no conscious experience is possible with flat EEG. The only support for the conscious experiences of the coma patients are their testimonies and one small experiment called Coma Tennis. But to get from here to established science knowledge, which would be a new paradigm takes time and much more evidence -- so, plenty of interesting work ahead.
NearDeathAwakening 6 months ago
@SonicCircuit True, coma patients have reported conscious experience -- BUT, the problem is that established scientific knowledge based on experiments is as I have just stated: no conscious experience w flat EEG. All Nelson has is theory that still needs to be proven, and until then he only has his belief. And no, while some supporters shout proof, official NDE research only claim evidence suggestive of consciousness beyond the brain. But even 'only' as such it is indeed very interesting.
NearDeathAwakening 6 months ago
@SonicCircuit That's all good, but there is a fatal flaw in your logic: the question is Not if a person is dead with flat EEG but how much consciousness is needed to produce conscious experience. Multiple scientific experiments on both animals and human have shown that with flat EEG the brain cannot produce conscious experience. Also Nelsons theory to disprove NDEs rests on the REM state and thus to enforce his faith and religion, he must make this unreasonable and unscientific argument.
NearDeathAwakening 6 months ago
and that's 3 times you've blocked my channels posting to here (morons like you censoring truth is why i have >1 channel...), because you are the same peado-cult conspiracy trying to disprove the fact that McKenna etc are correct about DMT.
you claimed the organisation you're a member of have lots of info on how LSD yields NDEs,
i asked you here to provide the links as a search of their site shows up nothing of the kind, and you still haven't managed to do so.
JustSomePerson888 6 months ago
@JustSomePerson888 The censoring has Nothing to do with truth or censoring truth, but as I have said over and over again: RESPECTFUL discussion or debate. Mature people can argue respectfully so 'truth' is not dependent on insults. No freedom is absolute and if you ever want to have hopes of getting a job, you will have to learn to be civil some day. Now, if you don't like being blocked, well then stop the name calling and start showing some respect! Otherwise, let it go and go somewhere else.
NearDeathAwakening 6 months ago
..and besides being disrespectful, you are also wrong. I find DMT very interesting. But "the fact that McKenna etc. are correct" or that DMT is the new religion -- I just don't buy without convincing evidence. So, no, its not about censorship at all -- its all about backing up your claims instead of all this fundamentalism like in religion: "I know it all just trust me and follow me like a sheep." Sorry, in order to be objective you have to back up your claims -- that's how we get to truth.
NearDeathAwakening 6 months ago
So, we are back to the video: how can a chemical reaction in the brain, DMT, explain NDEs that occur during flat EEG and a brain that is inactive? This is the challenge and this is the debate here. Now, instead of all your insults, you could try to back up the claim that DMT is released naturally at death, but then you have also have to provide convincing evidence to show that this actually occurs. As the video, you need to provide the same level of scientific evidence and your mere opinions.
NearDeathAwakening 6 months ago
@JustSomePerson888 Two reasons I didn't do this job FOR you: 1) you claimed to be an expert on NDEs, so you should know this, 2) As a researcher in the field, I do not use internet sources, only literature and books. "The Psychology of Religion" mentions Hardy's study, which lists "psychedelic drugs" as a trigger p 187, and "The Near Death Experience: Problems, Prospects, Perspectives" says LSDs connection to NDEs is the release of symbolic "death-rebirth content from the unconscious." p 272
NearDeathAwakening 6 months ago
...you are a lazy NDE 'expert' - one minute on the internet brought this:
"Hallucinations and the NDE - LSD and Ketamine research" from near-deathDotcom but Google it
What is funny is that you know about McKenna but since you do not know about LSD you must not know Timothy Leary. You really need to up your NDE research, my friend.
NearDeathAwakening 6 months ago
...you are unblocked but one insult more and you are blocked and I will have had enough of your arrogance and disrespect.
NearDeathAwakening 6 months ago
Also Stanislav Groff originally pioneer LSD research, and in his book "Psychology of The Future" he mentioned that some of his cancer patients had NDEs both on LSD during his experiments and then later 'real' onces as they were dying of cancer. These people said that both experiences were identical and some even said the second 'real' NDE was more easy because they had been there before. Psychology of the Future, p 294
NearDeathAwakening 6 months ago
..So, are you now ready to show some respect? I told you already that you were barking up the wrong three -- we are actually on the same side here, and as an actual expert on NDEs, I could be a useful ally in your area of interest. All I ask, is that you let go of the DMT fundamentalism and open up to real objective investigation. LSD does the same as DMT and there are many doors that open to the same experience. And about the video, for DMT to win it must explain DMT release during flat EEG.
NearDeathAwakening 6 months ago
test
MannySteinerBleeky 6 months ago
@ReneJorgensenDotCom - i wrote this here originally -
1. DMT reports tend to sound similar to both 'alien abduction' reports and also 'contactee' reports
2. DMT reports also sound similar to clinical NDEs ie -
THE NDES THAT HAPPEN WHEN SOMEONE ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY DIES.
not the other kind that are not the same type of NDEs that seem to be included as being dead here.
you can't use sort-of-NDEs to say that DMT isn't a death chemical because other psychedelics trigger sort-of-NDEs.
DracOverLordHaton 6 months ago
@DracOverLordHaton Yes, DMT seem to share some interesting similarities. BUT, so does lsd, ketamine, illness, intense fear or pain, spiritual inspiration,etc. - are all triggers of experiences that are either identical or very similar to NDEs. So, DMT is not alone and that is the point.
Fundamentalism is not what you believe in - but how your mind works and how you conduct yourself. Having a narrow perspective on DMT as THE explanation and using anger to enforce this view - is fundamentalism.
NearDeathAwakening 6 months ago
@NearDeathAwakening - again you ignore what i posted. so how can your books be any use, if you don't know how to look at a topic realistically, and repost the same things to people when they covered your points already?
you don't understand how to measure anything -
you cannot claim DMT isn't a death-process-chemical based upon the fact that other molecules cause experiences that are in general paranormal.
the point is that DMT produces experiences that are SPECIFIC matches to actual-death.
MannySteinerBleeky 6 months ago
@NearDeathAwakening - do you understand why your reasoning is completely flawed?
yes, all psychedelics will cause peak experiences, spiritual awakeneings, paranormal experiences etc etc.
but however - only the freebase or snuff dmt compounds have effects that are very specific to known after-death states, such as actually clinically dying, and being taken up on a ufo by aliens / angels etc.
different molecules = different antenna to different frequencies of consciousness
contd...
MannySteinerBleeky 6 months ago
@MannySteinerBleeky This is where you need to be careful not to sound like a religious person: all religions where prophets but only Jesus rose from the dead and is the Son of God. We do not know enough about psychedelics or DMT and there is no real hard evidence to back up your theories. UFOs, aliens and angels just doesn't cut is as real evidence. So, while DMT is interested and could have something to do with the NDE it is important to keep it at "could" and to let go of our angry defense.
NearDeathAwakening 6 months ago
@NearDeathAwakening - that is you trying to misuse language so it seems i am doing what you are doing - ignoring known truths and being illogical.
your problem is that you need to make people angry, you know we're right but you can't deal with the truth, so you don't reply to my correct points - instead you seek always to debunk via your own belief system, which disagrees with some type of religions.
we do know enough, w/o even science. read it again.
MannySteinerBleeky 6 months ago
@MannySteinerBleeky You are so stubborn: as the video argues you need to explain how DMT, a chemical reaction, can account for an experience occurring when the brain is inactive. And this you need to do with theory based on real evidence. You may not like science but in the real world UFOs, alien abductions, etc. just doesn't count as evidence.
NearDeathAwakening 6 months ago
I don't agree that science has become the new religion. But there is a reason for this: before religion told sheep to believe blindly - today science simply says: prove it. It sounds like you want to go back to the days of being a blind sheep: you want us to simply accept UFOs, etc. Sorry, I don't accept this. In my research I actually study if 'other worlds' are real or a manifestation of our mind. This question I find more honest than simply accepting anything your mind shows you as "truth"
NearDeathAwakening 6 months ago
...you wouldn't even dare to ask this question because a negative answer scares you more than anything. That's fundamentalism - fear of finding out the truth - and that's why science and objectivity has won in our search for truth.
NearDeathAwakening 6 months ago
@NearDeathAwakening and that's why to make sure you got the last word you blocked my long lost 3rd cousin. Why don't you respect her opinions, you filthy gerbil? Also i never saw you state a question, you made a lot of statements though. Why don't you ask us this question with a question mark(s)??? Then maybe you can find the negative answer you claimed will scare us.
How about you chew on this philosophical query for a moment: What doth life?
Silvamedalist 6 months ago
@Silvamedalist NO angry disrespectful language or name calling goes for you as well. IF you teen-agers can't discuss or debate in a civil and respectful manner, go somewhere else! The question is still the challenge put forward in the video: how can a chemical reaction, DMT, account for NDEs that occur when the brain is inactive? The answer to this sound contain an reasonable standard of evidence - not mere opinion or for out UFOs stuff.
NearDeathAwakening 6 months ago
@NearDeathAwakening - also the fact you even keep mentioning religions when no-one else did, suggests your real angle is the same as a certain other fake (gnostic media) who needs to prove jesus etc didn't exist and who also has a vested interest in proving mckenna's wrong about mushrooms - because they are right about mushrooms. and right about dmt.
you could learn from The Invisible Landscape, many important things.
MannySteinerBleeky 6 months ago
@NearDeathAwakening - btw enoch got taken up on his merkabah (the bioenegetic field that is a natural ufo that all life has around it) to the lord also, the bible etc doesn't say only jesus resurrected at all.
there's a rich history of accounts of ascension.
the Tibetian and Egyptian books of the dead i mentioned earlier, are all about going up that way. or out that way.
'sceintific rationalism' 's public version is merely the lens of Set wrongly focused.
you need views of all neters.
MannySteinerBleeky 6 months ago
@MannySteinerBleeky And you are barking up the wrong tree. I have studied all the books: Egyptian, Tibetan Book of the Dead, etc. AND I actually AGREE with you on many points BUT the issue is that its not between you and me, but between us and the mainstream: you want to get the people who don't know on board, right? Well, then you/we need real evidence based on science. Sorry, but those are the rules of the mainstream.
NearDeathAwakening 6 months ago
@NearDeathAwakening - the issue isn't between me or whoever else and the mainstream, since polls show things like most ordinary people believe in angels and ufo's etc.
you are out of touch with reality, its 'normal' people having NDEs, UFO encounters, paranormal experiences. they know it's real.
same way that's how i know it's real, and how i knew i lived in an oppressive reality run by evil since it denied truth, i'm no different to any other real Earth human, we're multidimensional gaians..
JustSomePerson888 6 months ago
@JustSomePerson888 You are out of touch with reality: sure, these experiences are real to the experiencers - but how do we convince the real or mainstream world? Science and not UFO sightings on DMT.
NearDeathAwakening 6 months ago
@NearDeathAwakening - so although some people may for example have a ufo experience via lsd or mescaline etc,
the point is that with snuff or smoked dmt, nearly everyone will have an after-death type experience.
because the molecule is more tuned to that reality or dimension.
ingested dmt takes you to a different reality than smoked or snuff dmt compounds.
MannySteinerBleeky 6 months ago
@MannySteinerBleeky Just keep it short and respectful. As the video, I am simply claiming that DMT, which is a chemical reaction in the brain cannot account for NDEs that occur when the brain is inactive. This hurdle you have to overcome with a theory that is based on real evidence, not your own theories. Until you or anyone else overcome this hurdle, it is not my reasoning that is flawed but the idea that DMT explains the NDE.
NearDeathAwakening 6 months ago
@NearDeathAwakening - my first comment here some time ago already did that.
maybe you missed it, but i explained that the flatline isn't the issue - the dmt is involved in the actual death, and since the actual death = your soul being hurtled out of your crown chakra, or prana tube, whatever terms you prefer, then it can be seen how a chemical reaction leads to a soul leaving the body.
science is based on observation first - and most psychics agree that souls leaving bodies stay attached via
MannySteinerBleeky 6 months ago
@MannySteinerBleeky This is just talk - no theory based on real evidence.
NearDeathAwakening 6 months ago
@NearDeathAwakening - via what they call an astral cord.
now we also know things like Kirlian photography show bioenergetic fields, and some orgone research also shows similar,
if you want to scientifically investigate death then you need a means of measuring subtle energy, however you could try looking at ITC and EVP - these appraoches seem to work based on same principal as why some people's energy fields can do things like interfere with lighting.
also look into NFSH + doctors who agree.
MannySteinerBleeky 6 months ago
@MannySteinerBleeky ...and actually an apology is in order, my friend. Personal attacks on peoples profiles because you can't get what you want or force people to agree with you is very immature. These are the actions of a fundamentalist. A sign that you understand this would give you some good will back.
NearDeathAwakening 6 months ago
@NearDeathAwakening - yes i agree your conspiracy owes me and others very big apologies.
but you don't believe in jesus anyway so you'd understand that i never forgive anyone, cause i know if they deserve it then they've stopped being evil anyway.
MannySteinerBleeky 6 months ago
@MannySteinerBleeky Listen, you got really rude when you couldn't get things your way AND then you went after people with you personal attacks on someone's profile. All this while the other side did nothing of this kind. Your actions were very aggressive and far beyond respectable debate - but of course, as a fundamentalist you are totally blind of your own actions and that is the problem. And there is no conspiracy (expect in your mind): just a challenge to prove your DMT theory - that's all.
NearDeathAwakening 6 months ago
bear in mind - DMT compounds includes psilocybin and yage formulas too.
MannySteinerBIeeky 6 months ago
@phuketsigel Yes, I agree: without the fundamentalism and the attempt to establish dmt as a new religion, we can begin to look at the possible parallels with an objective mind. Certainly there seem to be some interesting similarities that deserve additional investigation.
LightBehindGod 6 months ago
@phuketsigel No measurable output means no brain activity. Also the question is not if some unmeasurable level might still be present but how much activity is needed. Don't throw around "nonsense" till you fully understand a topic. And "how can they prove there is no dmt around" is the purpose of the video: to show that dmt is not a new exclusive religion that has a patent on everything. Lsd also trigger the NDE. Fundamentalism is fundamentalism until you prove that dmt is the trigger.
LightBehindGod 6 months ago
@LightBehindGod DMT SEPARATES THE CONSCIOUSNESS FROM THE BODY SO THERE WOULD BE NO BRAIN WAVES, When you ingest DMT you are pure consciousness.
DMT is the body's natural stress mechanism , when the body is under high loads of stress DMT is released , just like the Colorado river toad releases DMT venom when its stressed,. It is also released during times of meditation and spiritual experiences.
liquidblue82 6 months ago
@liquidblue82 That may be it's function, but still DMT is a chemical reaction in the brain that creates brain activity. Also experiencing stress without brain activity, does not sound logical. Anyway, the point is that also e.g. Ketamine and lsd produce NDEs and similar experiences - so, DMT is not the new religion that has a patent on everything else. This is the point.
ReneJorgensenDotCom 6 months ago
@ReneJorgensenDotCom - what chemicals are you thinking will be found to be the triggers of releasing the soul or astral body then?
if you understand that things like ghosts exist, which makes complete sense to anyone that knows about things like NDEs - plus lots of psychics etc see the world that way all the time, with all the astrals and the auric energy in it, then of course an entity can be stressed but not have a body.
Ketamine is more OBEs is it not, I never got a chance at that one.
MannySteinerBIeeky 6 months ago
@MannySteinerBIeeky I don't know the answer to that question - and that is also the point: without certain information and evidence, its a bit premature to claim DMT is the new God.
ReneJorgensenDotCom 6 months ago
@ReneJorgensenDotCom - why do you keep saying that, about dmt being the new god? it sounds the complete opposite way that anyone who knows about this would say about something like that.
it's best to look for answers at - what indigenous cultures have known all along. they all agree globally and they all live in harmony with the planet and their cultures understand after-death states better.
also you do have to take these compounds to understand anything about them or examine them.
MannySteinerBIeeky 6 months ago
@ReneJorgensenDotCom - are you coming at this topic from a Harvard view, ie the Bardo Thodol Psychedelic manual? there's differences between OBEs and NDEs, an NDE isn't just feeling like you are dead either. I'd agree with the Harvard view, that you can have a guide or similar to help your consciousness access those states the Tibetian and Egyptian Books of the Dead knew about, between here and the world of death resurrection all that. but the DMT compounds propel you there w/o the guidance.
MannySteinerBIeeky 6 months ago
@LightBehindGod - what LSD does is very very different to what DMT does. i'm not aware of many NDE-like reports with LSD? but DMTs trip reports do sound more like 'natural' NDEs and things like 'alien abduction'. it's the same as how the natural occurances in plants are not the same experientially when the synthesised versions are taken, but you can tell they're a manufactured version of the same thing. the intelligence (of the molecule)remains but it's like a simulacrum, and it knows it is too.
MannySteinerBIeeky 6 months ago
@MannySteinerBIeeky Then you don't know much about NDEs (which is the problem with most people who want to establish DMT as the new religion) LSD is known within NDE research as a standard trigger of OBEs and NDEs, knownfor over 30 years - look at iands.org.
ReneJorgensenDotCom 6 months ago
@ReneJorgensenDotCom - i've done a lot of research on psychedelics and NDEs for many years. iands i don't know, but i'll have a look at it.
but what tou're saying is all wrong, no psychedelic people or heads would be dumb enough to think in terms of any molecule or specific plant being = god, they are too clued up to go down such cognitive paths of delusion.
can't say tho i ever heard of an LSD trip report anything like an NDE report, except one.
bad trip and hellworld NDE, 2D experience of.
MannySteinerBIeeky 6 months ago
@MannySteinerBIeeky My friend, I don't mean to be rude but if you don't know IANDS - you don't know much about NDEs. IANDS is the International Association for Near Death Studies - the leading research organization of NDEs. I have been a member since 2005, published 3 books on NDEs.
The point is that many DMT supporter promote DMT as a religion - meaning they claim DMT explains the NDE and everything else. DMT is interesting and there could be a link - but some DMT supporters need to cool.
ReneJorgensenDotCom 6 months ago
@ReneJorgensenDotCom - that's retarded, how can one organisation be some authority on what shamans and tribespeople and pagans etc have known all along.
i researched it before the world wide web was a major factor in people's lives, i don't know how old that organisation is.
besides which - where are the LSD articles you say they have there then?
have you even tried any psychedelics at all?, you don't seem aware of much about them.
MannySteinerBIeeky 6 months ago
@MannySteinerBIeeky You need to show some respect here. I have done most drugs and had an NDE on lsd 11 years ago, studied sharmanism, etc. so you are not talking to someone who doesn't know what he is talking about. You, on the other hand said that you have studied NDEs for many years - not that IANDS is the authority in that sense - but if you haven't come across the organization you have not looked very deep into NDEs.
ReneJorgensenDotCom 6 months ago
..and this point leads back to the video: its so easy to claim that DMT explains the NDE and everything else when you don't know enough about NDEs. IF you had known enough about NDEs, like the research of IANDS, you would know that NDEs seem to occur when the brain is inactive. Opposite DMT as a chemical reaction creates activity in the brain, and unless DMT can overcome this problem it is not a valid theory to explain the NDE.
ReneJorgensenDotCom 6 months ago
@MannySteinerBIeeky You have been blocked for rude and offensive language: you WILL show respect here on my channel, you teen anger.
I don't have time to find the many quotes linking lsd to NDEs (try "about NDEs" and google NDEs and psychedelics). Also, this is btw something you should know if you really knew about NDEs.
NearDeathAwakening 6 months ago
@ReneJorgensenDotCom - i searched for LSD at the website iands but it's only showing up 6 links, and they don't seem to be anything beyond the generalised info on psychedelics having trigger effects of phenomena known by other names, like OBEs and NDEs and anything paranormal...
also some of those reports are not of NDEs at all.
NDEs are when you clinically die, plus remember going to heaven or hell or similar, then come back to life again cause they restarted your heart or some such.
MannySteinerBIeeky 6 months ago
@MannySteinerBIeeky IANDS operate with two concepts: NDE and NDLE (Near Death Like Experience). The focus on clinical death is a technicality and something pushed by the mainstream - but identical experience happen under many different circumstances: illness, intense fear or pain (like child birth), drugs like Ketamine and lsd, and during spiritual inspiration like meditation or deep prayer.
ReneJorgensenDotCom 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ReneJorgensenDotCom - yes those are all generalised transpersonal and paranormal states etc, like i wrote earlier.
the clincial death aspect is what defines an NDE, otherwise you don't know that they definitely did officially medically die.
"LSD is known within NDE research as a standard trigger of OBEs and NDEs, knownfor over 30 years - look at iands.org"
- where is this info at that website?
MannySteinerBIeeky 6 months ago
Comment removed
LightBehindGod 6 months ago
the dmt part is what causes your soul to fire out of your body. if you aren't really dead - if you are able to return to the body as with an NDE - then your soul likely has remained attached to the body with what some psychics etc refer to as an astral chord.
this is also why it's similar to alien-abductions cause you'll likely end up in someplace like that after you die too. especially if you haven't paid attention in life and require vetting due to spiritual laziness.
MannySteinerBIeeky 6 months ago 2
@MannySteinerBIeeky thank you, i had to explain to someone this stuff
TheEveryhingGuy 6 months ago
@TheEveryhingGuy - no probs, i'm one of those people who's soul is all split up cause of the evil time-abusers, as detailed in the KOALA montauk info, where tahuti / thoth explains incarnations here, so i can attest that dmt undoubtedly is connected to death, cause when i took it the 'galactic immigration' (4d astral that keeps this reality soul-enslaved & frequency-controlled) that ws burroughs wrote about thought i was entirely dead, and it affected other times & places too.
MannySteinerBIeeky 6 months ago
@MannySteinerBIeeky thank you
liquidblue82 6 months ago
I mostly agree. Well made!
But. The real controversy is TIMING of the actual NDE experience. It is not yet known if the experience is occurring AT brain death, not at dying or regaining consciousness, for that we need independent observer corroboration.
With that, -note that if one is to assume that the NDE or life after death occurs OUTSIDE observable reality, the issue becomes unfalsifiable in principle just like existence of God and thus will cease to be of concern to science.
dharmanova 8 months ago
@dharmanova Well you have millions of people claiming NDE with OOBE's and DMT users WHo have had NDE/OOBE's,that and Millions of people believing GOD exists and the whole Both are Unfalsifiable.
SO,my point is that hoping over to the Theist side although could be Premature is not Irrational;-)
Peace-A.M.O.
iwanttocrashmybike 7 months ago
Because the brain its self has no external frame of reference to the outside world's time a mere second of time to us watching the person having the NDE could be a whole eternity, thus it is possible that if the body senses death and cardiac arrest is about to happen, the penal gland steps in to push out DMT so as to numb the trauma of dying. An EEG does not sense the electrical activity in the deeper areas of the brain thus a flat line doesn't mean the brain has stopped working.
draakisback 11 months ago
@draakisback That logic is flawed and slippery: The real question is how much electrical activity is needed for clear conscious experience, like the NDE, and here flat EEG is not enough. Also a DMT reaction in the brain would show up on the EEG. For the DMT theory to hold it must explain how the experience can occur in a state where DMT cannot occur. It cannot and thus falls shot.
LightBehindGod 11 months ago
@LightBehindGod The brain is physical matter vibrating at a particular frequency. Consciousness does not vibrate at that same speed, or it would have been mapped already. N,n Dimethyltryptamine is but a key that fits in a lock. The real "magic" is on(within) another, higher spacial dimension. You have a lot to learn my friend.
weepingmidwinter 11 months ago
@weepingmidwinter That's quite arrogant - not something you would learn on the other side. I agree the fundamental level is energy, extra dimensions etc. but for now we have to begin where we are and with the evidence we have. This evidence clearly suggest that DMT is not the new religion to replace all other religions - so stop acting like an arrogant religious fundamentalist.
LightBehindGod 10 months ago
@LightBehindGod When did I say it was a new religion? The DMT doesn't do anything by itself, it simply helps humans do something they already can. Btw, the evidence that "we" have, and the evidence that I have are different yo. Strassman himself only theorized that DMT was produced by the brain. This has yet to be proven, and as exciting as this would be, I am tired of people saying that DMT causes dreams/NDEs. That is ignorance my friend.
weepingmidwinter 10 months ago