Uncertain Ukrainian-Russian relations - 19 Oct 08

[starush777]

gulag itself was real, but solzhenitsyn's book are the fantasy. these are two non controversial facts.

[VlaDMoriarty]

Russia and Ukraine-brothers

[IskraAndrew]

And the fact that Ukraine under the Soviet Union took part of the Kursk region, Duck nothing terrible??

[YRAAAAAAaa]

SEVASTOPOL IS RUSSIAN CITY!!! WE WONT GO!!!FORGET ABOUT IT!!!FOR YOUR INFO 99% OF POPULATION OF SEVASTOPOL IS RUSSIAN!!!BY BLOOD!!!!60-70% of UKRAINE CONCIDER THEYSELF AS RUSSIANS!!!

[dinamit875]

fuck the russians,they are trying to take over the Crimeria! But its part of Ukraine, look at the map of Ukraine again if anyone don't believe me. Leave Ukraine alone ye stupid fukerz...

[isitmanormachine]

The one who poses himself as plebeian deserves to be enslaved.

I wouldn't like Ukr to become a US colony, but the fact is that you will be a slave anyway because of your behaviour.

[dinamit875]

I see what you are trying to say, but those people who are fighting for their freedom and standing up for their rights will never become slaves. Unfortunately this is not done in Ukraine, that is why Russia trying to take over it.

[isitmanormachine]

People think they fight for freedom does not mean they really fight for freedom.

They just fight, because they are told to.

They even refernce Kiev-skaya Rus' as roots of Russia, but immediately oppose themselfs to their root.

[isitmanormachine]

Moreover while they think they fight for freedom, actually they are being enslaved because of not lack of understanding.

"Lack of understanding" was enough reason in the O.T. to destroy nations.

I do not think it's different today.

[isitmanormachine]

not lack = lack

[dinamit875]

Nobody is fighting now for ukrainian freedom, but nowaday situation is leading to it....For past years many people have died for Ukrainian freedom, hundred, thousands of people and they were killed by USSR(Russian) government. Seems to me, the situation i repeating it self. Kievskaja- Rusj was Ukraine, is Ukrainian history and so it will be.Yes, it is roots of Russia and its history, but its not Russia nad Ukraine is not Russian property.......

[isitmanormachine]

Sure, it's US property now. The fight is almost over. Note, Ukr didn't participate in it, it was an object, not a subject.

I told here on youtube that Yuschenko will rise external debt before he did and he did. Plus WTO.

It the same scenario as with other ex-USSR parts, which are now basically sinks of inflation and providers of blind arbeiters. Go on. I do not care much about Ukr. or even Sevastopol, though I have some pain in my heart just because people hate each because of mass media.

[isitmanormachine]

I saw German maps as of beginning of the 20 cen. There's no Ukr there. Alles ist Russland.

[dinamit875]

Yes, theres no Ukraine in the maps, because for that times Ukraine was part of the most powerfull union in the world: USSR. If you know history, USSR government was trying to destroy Ukraine, to provide russification in there and many other countries. But Ukraine( Kiev ), was the place where Old Russian history began years and years ago.

[isitmanormachine]

no it was the very beginning. Before revolutions.

[1901974]

western spin on it again what a load of shit

[EliteBusJr]

Ukraine is Russia's little bitch

[caatvugb]

You're mine little bitch you fucker, mind your own buisiness.

[EliteBusJr]

Truth hurts i know

[caatvugb]

The truth is that you're a fucker who is intervening with something you have nothing to do with. More ever without giving a good argument for your statement. Now, when you know what the truths really is, you should decide or it hurts you or not.

[EliteBusJr]

accept it, Ukraine is Russia's little BITCH.

[caatvugb]

Fools way, repeat your nonsense .. who knows maybe someone will believe it ;)

[TAMARLANE]

Russia isn't fooling anyone in the world but themselves. If Russia truly believes the modern media, modern communications doesn't reveal the brutish Russian policies, then they are even dumber than I thought. And I think Russia is pretty stupid.

Let them go ahead and set their sights on Ukraine, let them antagonize Tatarstan, like they did in Chechnya.

This will all come back to bite Russia in the ass. A big fat drunken bear ass.

[Mavlik]

The fact that a Ukrainian communist redrew the borders of Russia 50 years ago and added Crimea to Ukraine doesn't make Crimea Ukrainian for all times.

Ultimately it is for Crimea to decide where to be.

[s35149]

Stupid report from stupid American reporters for stupid American people...

[TheGamersUnion]

British, not American.

[fivestarmichael]

And the communists elite were willing to do anything to keep their power.

Are you successful at what you do? Do you have everything you need right now? Or are you just angry at capitalism because you are no longer getting cheap vodka and bread?

You defend a system that discourages innovation. Did a Russian invent the computer you are using or the operating system? Are the Russians producing anything that is globally competitive right now... besides oil?

[fivestarmichael]

I am well aware that Ukrainians were anti-semetic and they welcomed the Nazi's. I didn't know anti-semetism was still so strong in the Ukraine... So you are saying they would welcome another leader like Stalin, so they could kill more Jews.

I am sure everything I have read is "Western propaganda" as you would call it. There were no gulags holding millions of political prisoners. An ideology which did not exist to serve the people, but the people in power... cont.

[fivestarmichael]

So Russians see America as a country that wants to rule world economy through force. While Americans see a Russia with a history of using force. Force against outsiders and it's own people.

We read books like "The Gulag Archipelago" by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn and we cringe. Do we really want to return to a world of gulags, pogroms and oppression?

Maybe Ukrainians fear that Russians want to return to their past violence against it's own people.

[starush777]

"The Gulag Archipelago" by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn is the fantasy book and it is widely used by "pro western" propaganda to demonize the USSR. Dirty games...

[fivestarmichael]

One story would be easy to dismiss. However, it is one story like many thousands. Thousands of people who have spoken of Soviet atrocities. Are you saying the Soviets did not commit crimes against it's own people?

[Ukufaul]

@starush777 FUCK you my grandmother sister where sent in gulag...FREAK.

[fivestarmichael]

Russians will argue, "look at America, it has started many wars to support it's economic imperialism. It is fighting in Iraq for oil. It decides the fate of Kosovo, a country far away. most Americans have never been to."

Americans will argue, "look at the way Russia gobbled up half of Europe after WWII. Look at the way Russia forced countries into the Eastern Bloc. When the Czechs tried to gain independence the Russians crushed the uprising with tanks" cont.

[fivestarmichael]

I can see your point of view. Americans would not want to see Russian weapons in Canada... even if the Canadians decided it was what they wanted.

It is hard to argue against your point of view. Americans don't want to see the Ukraine once again become a satellite of Russia and Russia definitly doesn't want to see Urkraine become a Nato country.

America are worried about Russia's intentions. Is Russia trying to become an empire again or is it trying to protect itself? cont.

[fivestarmichael]

Canadians speak hundreds of languages... You are arguing that Ukraine is part of Russia because they speak a dialect of Russian and the Russians once owned it. Canada was once owned by France, taken by Britain, then granted independence.

There are a lot of countries and regions which were once owned by another country. But these countries are now independent. Why can't Russians accept the Ukraine is an independent country?

[PutinProper]

Crimea is Russian, no question here.

But actual stakes are much higher than Crimea, thats why Russian leaders do not, openly, insist on Crimea immediate return.

Ukraine has pro-Russian majority (ethnic Russians and Maloross). The only real non-and-anti Russian part is relatively small

western area. But the peculiarity of modern

USA-like "democracy" is that real decision lies in hands of most active, motivated and richest groups.

Ukraine has no future, it will disintegrate, period.

[pisadinho]

this piece is biased. It does fail to say crimea was given to ukraine in the 50s by nikita Krustchev, the soviet leader.

Besides it fails to say crimea population is RUSSIAN. From wikipedia.

58.32% Russians

24.32% Ukrainians

12.10% Crimean Tatars

[TruthDaTruth]

I have been in Crimea,, its a beautiful place,, it belongs to tatars (Tajik muslims) who were forced to leaved durign soviet union. But there are still mosques and muslims r living there. It is a goergeous place to spend your holiday :)

[fivestarmichael]

Yes... more Russian truth. You only accept the truth you want to believe... the truth you agree with. Ukrainians were anti-semetic and so were the Germans. Guess what elgringo? It's the the 21st Century. Everyone else has evolved in the past 60 years... except for you Russians... you still live in the distant past.

[fivestarmichael]

What is the point of me looking anything up? Whatever source I give, you are going to say it is Western propaganda. The only real history is Russian history, Right? The only truth is from Putin.

Canadians speak English... and Canada was once British, but it isn't anymore. They are independent.

[Type59]

Ukraine has sold weapons to Georgia below market price. Buk M1 SAMs that were defending Ukraine air found its way to Georgia. Russia is not very pleased with this. Ukraine better not think uncle sam will rush in to save the day. They are having trouble with tribal people in Afghanistan. Iraq they lost it to Iran.

[fivestarmichael]

Yes, the whole world saw mighty Russia beat a country 1/100th its size. And Russia is giving the Ukraine every reason to join Nato.

USA needs and new enemy and Russia is too happy to oblige. Because Russia is in serious trouble and it needs a distraction from the real problems going on inside Russia.

Russia never had problems with people in Afghanistan?

[Type59]

Ukraine could go to NATO but does not mean its immune to Russian influence. Only country that counts in Nato is USA, as we seen in Afganistan the rest of the members are adverse to fighting, however USA influence encompasses the globe. US is overstretched militarily and diplomatically. Lets be relistic, military conflict is very rare possibility thus diplomancy is gonna take center stage. Russia is next door to Ukraine and has long term goals, wheras Washington has more urgent priorities.

[PutinProper]

Russia WAS is serious trouble during 90s when we had the "best" relations with West and USA.

Whereas Russia and Russians  wanted to integrate into the western world and wanted friendship with US, US just wanted to weaken and humiliate Russia, never getting rid of cold war ideology.

Russia was good in the weak state, for sure.

Now than Russia really started to recover from the massive losses of 90s, it quickly became

bad, no surprise.

But it is US who is in real problem now, not Russia :)

[bgturk]

Remember that those tribal people of Afghanistan brought down the Soviet Union.

[Barboy0]

Those russian bastards!!!!!! JK

[fivestarmichael]

Maybe because Stalin killed off or deported all the ethnic Ukrainians. Everything is a conspiracy with you people? The only honest history is Russia's version of history? The only honest news is state-owned television news; Pravda? Everything is anglo-saxon propaganda! The only truth is what Putin tells us to think. You must obey Putin, Putin is your new messiah. Obey Putin, he is the new Stalin. Excpept everything your government says... it is the truth. The West is all lies.

[Organjic]

lol, I want that house :P

[oceanbound222]

The US's trying to control the destiny of Georgia, Kosovo, and the Ukraine will create World War 3.

America needs to butt out !!!!!!!!!!

[fivestarmichael]

Yes, Nato must let Russia take over these countries. Because Russia brutally took over these countries, then let them go when it was broke. It let them go when it was on it's knees begging the west for money.

But Russia has money again and it wants to become an empire again. So Ukraine must give up any hopes of independence, because Russia wants to own the Ukraine again. Forget what the poeple want.

[LILUCKSMO80]

Ukrainian is weak russia would kick tha azz just like they did with georgia

[fivestarmichael]

Do you really think Russia could beat a country 5% of its size? That would make Russia a really bad-ass country. Maybe it could invade Latvia next... then the world would really understand superior Russian might. You people are like cute little cartoon characters.

[isitmanormachine]

Yugoslavia, IRAQ.. do THEY care about being bad-head country?

[allgoo19]

I'm guessing this is not known to Russian public?

Does it matter? What can go wrong, it's a popular Mr. Putin's decision.

[MoralObserver]

Dude should sell it and bail.