Smart Grid City

[tuttt99]

You'll get MY analog appliances and thermostats from my cold dead hands!!

[gloria09m]

ABC showing it real colors. Revelation and tribulation here we come.

Your power is their power, for their power against the real power- God

[Anothercoilgun]

When I got into electronics, this is not how I envisioned the future. I personally control things and would like to control my home down to the micro meter because computer electronics and energy is in my blood. But to be force this control scares the shit out of me. It does not mater anyway. Most will be dead com 2011.

[maheshsutaiya]

Smart Grid::

This is great and going to rock in future....You should understand this...

What are you fighting for....

I thought Talk will be on technical challnges...but all..!!

I haven't seen yet video....

Would like to hear any technical challanges and real application of smart grid..

[NoGuff]

And what relationship does ABC have with the companies involved in this smart grid thing?

GE is getting a sweetheart deal from President Obama on their involvement in the healthcare industry, and CEO Immelt told NBC to do story after story on healthcare over the next year or two.

Yes, that good ol' "unbiased news media."

[NoGuff]

Why would you want to control your heating & lighting from anywhere in the world? Why would your heating & lighting be running if you're on another continent? And wouldn't that access be easily compromised via computers?

We all already know the best times to run dishwashers, etc., is at odd or off-peak hours.

I can already control my energy usage by turning off unnecessary lights & appliances.

And we already have energy monitoring for our homes, it's the dials on the outside boxes.

[raslaje]

I bet we'll have to prepay our bill. And just like a prepaid cell phone, when the balance hit $0, so will the service.

[234Mack]

oh my good good the reason for doing this is so that the load level remains constant and means more efficient use of the system we have. And the reason its so expensive right now is economies of scale, its still a conceptial idea, and also how is someone gonna burn your house down? of course the saftey aspect is gonna be addressed!

[NoGuff]

"load level remains constant and means more efficient use of the system"

--How will the load level change? And the electrical usage is never more or less efficient than how much energy is being drawn from the grid. And we already have energy monitoring for our homes, it's the dials on the outside boxes. Want to be energy efficient? Get insulation for your house, shut your windows when your heat pump is running, and turn off unnecessary lights & appliances. This is having the govt do it for you.

[234Mack]

The reason you can turn on anything at any time is because generators are on stand by for sudden peaks so essentially these generators are operating for no reason other than to keep the customer happy, I bet you'd have a hissy fit if you had scheduled blackouts. Yes you be more efficient through insulation ect but you lot saying this is a bad thing is while you'll never be part of the solution. Makes me glad that you lot have absolutly no influence.

[NoGuff]

"operating for no reason other than to keep the customer happy"

--Yes, that's what they are for. You know, the energy they create that is not necessary CAN go into batteries. Or am I totally wrong about that?

"I bet you'd have a hissy fit if you had scheduled blackouts"

--Sir, I don't have "hissy fits." And I live in CA, they are always a possbility.

[NoGuff]

"saying this is a bad thing is while you'll never be part of the solution"

--I just offered several ways why I'm part of the solution. But thanks for lying. And rationing a utility to the People for no good reason is not a solution.

"Makes me glad that you lot have absolutly no influence"

--Neither do you, but at least I know how to construct a grammatically proper sentence in my native language.

Say hello to Londonistan for me.

[234Mack]

a) I'm from England so i find it some what insulting you advising me on how to speak English.

b) I'm an electrical engineer researching into this area. So i know what i'm talking about.

Yes you could use batteries in fact this would make a considerable part of smart grids i.e. connecting your electic car in at night to help level load over a 24hr period. All this is about is leveling demand over a 24 hr period so there is more efficient use of the system. Its not trying to ration energy!

[NoGuff]

"i find it some what insulting you advising me on how to speak English"

--I call them as I see them.

"leveling demand" = rationing.

How else could you possibly describe it? What if you choose not to "level" your use? No penalty?

And I'd love to unplug from this "smart grid." And when the Nazis in the government turn off your power via this smart grid system, all I ask is that you remember our conversation.

[234Mack]

You know what Ill take my well educated, well researched, well understood concept and ideas to someone with the mental capacity to understand the issues at hand here.Seeing as you think its your god given right to have power, maybe you should try operating the system economically the way you intend perhaps its cunts like you are the reason we are in a such an enormous economic recession right now?!

[NoGuff]

"You know what Ill take my well educated, well researched, well understood concept and ideas to someone with the mental capacity to understand the issues at hand here"

--Ow you hurt my feelings. Yet I see you're still conversing with me.

"you think its your god given right to have power"

--Electrical power here in the USA is a "utility," and its treated differently than a luxury. You can cut people off if they don't pay, but you can't ration it. Besides, that is an illegal use of Federal power.

[NoGuff]

"try operating the system economically the way you intend perhaps its cunts like you are the reason we are in a such an enormous economic recession right now?!"

--We already operate it in an economical way. And how it operates has NO effect on the recession, you ninny.

The effect of this new technology won't be any different than if people took an active & thoughtful role in their electrical usage. But what it will do is put those decisions IN THE HANDS OF THE GOVERNMENT. And you like that?

[NoGuff]

"I don't seem to remember Arnie dragging Jews out of their houses and murdering them in the name of Smartgrids"

--Neither do I, but I don't recall writing that, either.

But I'll tell you what the Nazis did have, and that's control. Government control over your lives, just like the Communists.

But thanks for taking that message out of context. Just like a liar does.

[234Mack]

"And I'd love to unplug from this "smart grid." And when the Nazis in the government turn off your power via this smart grid system, all I ask is that you remember our conversation"

- that seems to be a consierable reference to how you think this is the same as Nazi politics!

But anyway you keep btiching about how the government is out to get you! and we'll keep working on the issues facing us. As i said before you'll never be part of the solution!

[NoGuff]

"consierable reference"

--It seems you'll take that quote as you want to take it according to your personal agenda. Doesn't mean it was meant that way, nor is it even worded that way. But go ahead and take it however you like, it doesn't matter to me.

"the government is out to get you!"

--That's not what I wrote, but thanks for lying!!

"part of the solution!"

--The solution is doing the things you want but keeping the govt out of my home. But Liberal minions like you are ok with it.

[234Mack]

"the government is out to get you!

--That's not what I wrote, but thanks for lying!!"

"But I'll tell you what the Nazis did have, and that's control. Government control over your lives, just like the Communists."

Well what else are you implying by saying they want monitor and control you? And Im not a liberal I vote conservative which is centre right.

[NoGuff]

"Well what else are you implying by saying they want monitor and control you?"

That's not the same thing as "the government is out to get you!"

But thanks for lying!!!

[234Mack]

no not word for word but even you can see what your trying to say is the government wants to control you. You are implying that its a massive consipracy to control you and your actions. I can't see how you can deny that, but sorry i was trying to look for meaning in your words aparently there isn't any I wasn't lying just trying to figure out what the hell you're on about.

[NoGuff]

"Out to get me" and "wanting control over the power we use" are two different things, you must see that.

Sorry about the lying charge.

[234Mack]

By the way do you not think its a little bit scandalous to compare your situation to that of Europe under Nazi rule? I don't seem to remember Arnie dragging Jews out of their houses and murdering them in the name of Smartgrids but maybe I missed that on BBC news.

[234Mack]

It seems you don't like smart grids as concept let alone a reality. So I'd advise you invest in some PV's and take your self off the grid. Contrary to popular belief adding wind and other small-medium scale renewable energy (distributed generation) is not just a case of "plugging" it in, and this is where smart grids would play a vital role. But hey least if the power does go off I don't have to read another well informed, well researched response from your fine self.

[NoGuff]

"Contrary to popular belief adding wind and other small-medium scale renewable energy (distributed generation) is not just a case of "plugging" it in, and this is where smart grids would play a vital role"

--What about all the people who have done that already, like since the 80s, and all without "smart grid technology?" If they did it then, why is it so damned necessary now?

You're just full of shit, and that shit is the programming you get from your Leftist masters.

[234Mack]

See this just shows you don't know what your talking about, I actually study this! Yes renewables such as wind were intergrated in the 80's but the uptake of this technology is set to be far greater in the future due to global warming. this will effect power quality, fault levels, and whole host of other operating conditions and parameters. But just so we keep this to fact power quality issues cost the US $100 billion/yr you telling me this money wouldn't be needed now?

[NoGuff]

"this will effect power quality, fault levels, and whole host of other operating conditions and parameters"

--Again, how were all those people able to do it but for some reason the rest of us can't? And please, don't give the the "power quality" argument. That has nothing to do with the bulk of what "smart grid" is essentially about. They could install that equipment without the TV campaigns, etc.

[234Mack]

Also the introduction of Smart grids would reduce CO2 emissions in the US by 25% seeing as you produce 25% of CO2 emissions across the entire globe i'll assume you can do the maths! (its 1/8 btw!) meaning a huge enviromental benifit. But you seem to think the govenment doesn't already know everything about you! Be honest do you not think they have bigger fish to fry than repriving you of talking crap on youtube!

[NoGuff]

"the introduction of Smart grids would reduce CO2 emissions in the US by 25%"

--How? By rationing our power, that's how. Shit, I could do that quite easily, just by turning off the power to a whole bunch of houses. But of course the power to the mansions of Al Gore, John Edwards, Oprah Winfrey, etc. won't be affected.

"do you not think they have bigger fish to fry"

--Friend, controlling the power consumption of 300 million people is not a case of small fish.

[234Mack]

Again this shows how little you know about power systems operation. Machinery and equipment operate most efficiently at their rated values. Therefore there are less losses (heat) in transformers when running at rated MVA, than they would if less power is flowing, the same with goes for generators. The overall useage will be the same just spread over a 24 hr period more evenly.

[NoGuff]

"Again this shows how little you know about power systems operation"

--This just shows how much you're in favor of the government having a hand in your private home. Most of what their saying the smart grid will do can be done by the consumer.

[234Mack]

Old 80's wind farms use induction motors which cannot control power factor as effectively as synchronous motors, leading to power quality issues such as frequency going out of statutory limits. Also controlling voltage with increased use of micro generation is a major issue.This is all striving to give you good power quality so your computer doesn't break because the power supply can't handle frequency outside a certain tolerance.

[NoGuff]

"This is all striving to give you good power quality so your computer doesn't break because the power supply can't handle frequency outside a certain tolerance."

--Friend, I have 2 computers running now, I have two in my closet I don't use anymore, and I have 2 more that I've thrown out. NONE of them have ever been affected by "voltage quality" issues. Nor have any of my other appliances. And a LOCAL control system will take care of LOCAL wind generators.

[234Mack]

Yea because the current system works on one way power flow this will no longer be the case and when that happens contolling the system becomes alot more difficult so using the current system i.e. no active information would mean it is more likely to "crash". Think of it this way you driving down a highway trying to keep your car at 60mph with the traffic going with you no add on comming traffic and see if you can keep it at 60mph, bit harder huh?

[NoGuff]

Again, all those people, for the last 24 years, who have generated their own power, and sold some of what they generated back to the power company could do it without this system. Why can't the rest of us?

You simply refuse to accept that the government will eventually work it's way into rationing the power if given the chance, and this gives them the chance.

Or are you in favor of it? This is the question you have danced around so far.

[234Mack]

Because there werent that many people in the last 24 years generating from their homes! We are now talking about every single home being a generator, that would have massive effects on power systems. If you did some power systems analysis you'd understand this but again I'll assume you are not an electrical engineer otherwise you'd know this. But since when has knowledge been the basis of an opinion!

[NoGuff]

You can't say that your govt and my (new) govt are not eager to take that next small step to have control over the power us "nobodies" consume. They can't wait to get their grubby eco-bullshit hands on it.

I wouldn't mind having MY computer control MY electricity, just not the power company (and soon to be govt) controlling it in a way they never did before.

Social engineering is the Left's middle name. Do you want them controlling your power usage? Or are you smart enough to do it yourself?

[234Mack]

Well i spose it all depends if you believe in global warming at the end of the day. Personally i do because i put my trust into science. Also another point i was gonna bring up but ran out of space is that i foresee many coal pits closing, and unlike the way thatcher dealt with it in the 80's. I'd like to think miners would be given new skills to become line's men to errect new overhead lines and underground cables. Massive amounts of jobs should come out of this, hence the social benifits.

[NoGuff]

"i do because i put my trust into science"

--There are plenty of scientists who have looked at the "science" of it and say it's all bullshit. Our northeast had the coolest June in 25 years, and it snowed in S. Dakota in June for the first time ever. Last year and the year before our northernmost states incl Alaska had the longer lasting winter temps.

"hence the social benifits"

--But you just wrote that coal miners will be thrown out of work with no new job skills. Which is it going to be?

[234Mack]

As far as the privacy aspect goes people are working on it, i mean its a very important aspect of smartgrids. But come on your on the internet! If your that worried about the government monitoring you then surely you'd not wanna be on here?

[NoGuff]

"your on the internet! If your that worried about the government monitoring you"

--If you can't see the difference between a person PUBLISHING their opinion for PUBLIC consumption, and the government rationing your electrical power usage without your consent, then you need to go do some brain exercises.

[234Mack]

A) The government could ration your power now if they were so hell bent on it!

B) The government don't operate the power system utlilities do! least in the UK anyway.

C) What possible benifit would they gain from it? you say control but over what?

D) I am defently pro this technology i'd have thought that obvious, i'd say the economic, environmental and social benifits far out wiegh any possibility of government intervention, which i don't think will happen anyway!

[NoGuff]

A) But they can't just jump into it, they need to slither their way, and have your approval (via representation).

B) The utilities have great govt oversight since they operate as a pseudo-monopoly here. Therefore the govt has some control. But Obama will, if he wants. just scoop them up like he's done with the banks & auto industry, but he needs an excuse.

C) The Left (Elitists) want control over the masses. Their brand of Socialism/Communism.

D) Just remember this conversation when it does.

[234Mack]

So wait are you still claiming this technology only exsists because of goverment propaganda? i'm by no means a communist, i mean i understand the principle that all men are equal, just shame we're all to greedy for that to work, so therefore i'm a realist (centre) i just still don't buy into the this whole new world order stuff so i spose agree to dissagree!

[NoGuff]

"are you still claiming"

--You're saying that I believe this technology exists because I believed govt propaganda that it does exist? Please read your questions before posting them.

"i'm by no means a communist"

--You say you're not a Communist, but you do have Marxist beliefs. You also don't know how the Communist aspects of this impacts your life.

FYI: The idea of all people being equal has NOTHING to do with government intervention in your private life. Damn, I thought you were smart.

[konakevin777]

This may look "high tech" and "cool" but in the end this technology will be used against us... it's very dangerous. And it will cost far more in higher taxes than any savings we might see on our electric bill.

Yeah, his electric bill is $3/month. Of course, he's got a $120,000 grid-tie solar system installed on his home. Let's see... my electric bill is $200/mo. For the cost of his system, I can pay my electric bill for FIFTY YEARS! And he would have had to replace all the panels 2-3 times!

[ruppertknickerbocker]

More Corp. welfare for Google IBM GE At&t.

[ruppertknickerbocker]

Were supposed to spend billions on a smart grid because some dumb asses in Colorado can't tell a drier costs money to run. It sounds like corp. welfare to me.

[NoGuff]

"sounds like corp. welfare to me"

--It's not corporate welfare, it's government control, in your house.

[Tweak2911]

Two problems.

1. Hackers.

2. yes your bill is may be only $3 a month but taxes will increase greatly to make the smart grid.

[uncleardegree]

These need some kind of firewall on the controls so that only the home owner can control and manipulate the power to their devices. The Gov and electric companies need to KEEP THEIR HANDS OFF and should not have any kind of override over the homeowner.... unless its an emergency but even then the companies should not have remote control... and there should always be Manual controls for the homeowner as a back up.

[NoGuff]

"The Gov and electric companies need to KEEP THEIR HANDS OFF and should not have any kind of override over the homeowner"

--The whole point of this "smart grid" thing is to give the government the ability to ration your energy usage. They'll be able to dial down or cut off your home's power from a central location via a computer instead of having to send a work crew to your house.

[YoDudeRock]

The federal government is paying for this with our tax dollars (even though we are in a recession). The Constitution says the government can only do what's in the Constitution, and this isn't included. What about power companies being private companies and free markets?

Here's something else to thing about...What is to stop hackers from breaking into a centralized system and cutting peoples power for fun, or maybe burning someones house down?.

[ekrubonline]

Wow... I never heard anyone refer to this as the beginning of the holocaust before...

I was more thinking about the benefits of this to the environment. Pretty interesting perspective though...

[lqdust]

where are all the comments on this one. come on people if we can control our power from anywhere in the world what will stop the government from turning it off when ever they want!!!! oh my friggin god it's Nazi Germany !!!

[moonbowfalls]

enviromental issues? it doesn't seem likely to me to be the overall reason. After all they know how much electricity we are using in our homes why is there a need for them to know what appliances are turned on in my home This would be an incredible violation of our right to privacy and I will be hung before i allow them that information. Also I will not allow them to tell me the devices i need to use.

[lqdust]

right on man fight the power!! lol i really cant beleive that someone thumbed down my comment. they really don' t know wahts going on do they!!