The sweet irony here is that ReasonTV is a libertarian channel praising the efficient running of a city gov't. The gov't of Sandy Springs still provides the public services, it simply uses private companies to provide those services and lower it's costs. Residents still call 911 when they need help not a private emergency company. This is definitely NOT THE LIBERTARIAN POSITION. This is an OUTSOURCED GOV'T not the reduced un-involved gov't of libertarian ism. OH, THE IRONY....hahahahaha
@a46475 The sweet irony here is that you are treating evidence of market efficiency as evidence that government is efficient. This increase in overall productivity was due to the fact that government was playing a smaller role than it once was - precisely what Libertarians advocate.
@Kubrick1989 However, Sandy Springs does exist because there is massive corruption and waste in Atlanta City and Fulton County, as well as programs like MARTA...were the assembly wise, they'd wake up to the trend.
@chokeu2 It's quite clear, you're part of the city that is well off, who doesn't want to support the rest of the city. Nothing wrong with that. But, it's easier to make a business more efficient, then it is to start one. Sandy Springs didn't start anything.
@chokeu2 You misunderstand. The efficiencies are a good thing. However, Sandy Springs is a horrible example to use. It's significantly well off, has a thriving economy, and it's silly to think that the capital investment that built the tax base Sandy Springs now thrives on did not take many city/county service investments (many of which you still rely upon, such as Fulton County Schools and MARTA).
"... and it's silly to think that the capital investment that built the tax base Sandy Springs now thrives on did not take many city/county service investments (many of which you still rely upon, such as Fulton County Schools and MARTA)"
And Sandy Springs residents paid county property taxes and state property and sales taxes used to fund these projects before and after incorporation as a city.
@mjzink1 Yes, they did. And those taxes built a community that they inherited...you miss my point. It's easy to take a system that is established and make it more efficient...any system really. it's far more difficult to create a system in and of itself. Fulton County made Sandy Springs, to call Sandy Springs amazing is silly. It's merely a well off portion of the city that found a way to be more efficient. I am not attacking Sandy Springs. I just think to call it a model is a bit silly.
I grew up just north of Sandy Springs in the 60s. Use to come up to get a ice cream float at Baukums Drug Store. I was a nice town then....peaceful. I visited again in the 90s, only to be surrounded by traffic and hundreds of illegal (mostly) Mexicans and street thugs lining the sidewalks. I don't know anything about the politics of the area now...and I don't want to. I only know it was a much better place years ago.
"As soon as the majority became republican, we passed the Bill to authorize the referendum in Sandy Springs, and it passed with 92% of the vote." Typical democrats; after as much power over people as they can get without using totalitarian means, at least in this case. Democrats, the party of big government; the bigger and more centralized, the better.
@chokeu2 Wow, what a Utopia. CH2MHill. No corruption coming from that foreign corporation. A few years down the line when someone who is not on their payroll exposes they have been overcharging you for this, and falsely charging you for that you can just drop them from their contract right? But wait! The contract their high priced lawyers penned up and your officials were to lazy or stupid to read has a clause that says you owe them millions for dropping them early. Suckers
American Third Position Party! Tired of leftists and Neocons? Tired of people using words? like racists and anti semite to try to silence their opponents? Tired of affirmative action? Tired of spending billions on upholding a overseas military empire? Tired of the? illegal alien invasion of the USA?
Look no further than at the American Third Position Party! Take a look at their homepage at american3p . org and take a look at their videos here on youtube.
I live in Sandy Springs. U can get a 1 bed apartment in the city for as little as $500 and as much as $1200 and own here from the low 200s to multiple millions. Sandy Springs is also very diverse with large and noticeable hispanic and black populations. MOST of the homeowners in the city are white. MOST are middle and upper middle class. Wealthy areas: 30327 and 30342(mostly Buckhead) and the SW corner of 30328. 30350(umc) is a waste of money, poor schools lots of apts in the zip.
Oh, and Sandy Springs has higher per/person operating costs and total budgetary expenditures compared to Fulton County, the county they just left if the first lie of omission in this video was not enough to convince you.
That is right. Sandy Springs doesn't even achieve cost savings.
So what? The relevant piece of information is in the vid - that compared to *itself* prior to the outsourcing, Sandy Springs provides the same services (some actually improved) at half of what they were spending before the outsourcing.
I lived in SS for three years. Worked there too. Its actually only a city because they incorporated. The whole of SS is surrounded by Atlanta just like decatur. But its where all the rich people live. Their roads were fine, I don't know WHAT she's talking about. When I lived there (2001-2004) there was tons of road widening going on but the rest of the roads were in fantastic shape. She's LYING.
And referring to city workers as "long term liabilities"? nice.
In case you're wondering, Sandy Springs has roughly 3 times the per-capita income of Atlanta, the city that the city that they decry as "the problem".
I am shocked, shocked to learn that there is dishonesty going on in here
The linchpin of Sandy Springs success is not using defined benefits. Most cities outsource the other stuff nowadays anyway - it's the pensions that kill them.
Do --ANY--- of you commenters actually live or work in Sandy Springs? or are you just jealous of their sucess? The city of Atlanta somehow was getting a ton of tax money from what is now SS and so was Fulton County, The leadership in Fulton County took a ll the tax money and spent it on vote buying schemes in South Fulton County, totally ignoring the needs and desires of the people paying most of the bill,.Try calling Fulton County and reporting a pothole, then call SS.
The idea is great but it cannot be usable template for every other city. Plus outsourcing will lower the "revenue" in the state, hence cutting services to the people who need them.
Plus about the pension idea. Does it included all public employees in the city? Or just police and firefighters? I don't want some Wall-Street guy gamble my 401(k). Funny thing is Poway CA is similar to Sandy Springs but didn't outsource their programs and they usually bring in extra anyways because of their business
@ZSwierczynski Yeah those douchebags on Wall Street know nothing about investment; let's pass that responsibility onto bureaucrats and politicians. Always worked in the past.
Who say I want a bureaucrat or politician for my pension. Wall Street doesn't know anything about real investments because they just gamble everything into a giant casino and makes us bail them out. So you wanted to Bailout WallStreet? I would of let it burn. Politicians and Bureaucrats are wallstreet front.
How I'm a dick? I don't how much they make, but by taking services that people need when they are desperate are gone. So my dad should die when they cut Medicare because of his new heart? While a Wall Street CEO makes 3x to 4x as a CEO. I would delegate myself for my pension, while making an agreement between the city government and my occupation. I don't care about WallStreet but it doesn't provide jobs. It give Jobs to an Oligarchy of people who hate you and me.
@ZSwierczynski I didn't say you are a dick, I said that you know dick (i.e. nothing) about how trading on the stock market works. It's not "people killing my dad by playing in a big casino". And if you allow your local/city government to manage your pension then you ARE delegating that role to politicians and government bureaucrats!
I didn't say anything about delegating the role to the politicians and bureaucrats. I'm saying when I work for that city, I work something out for somesort of Pension fund with the local government. Hence they must keep their promise if I donate my own pay. Then I demand they equal it out like a 401(k) but noone except me can touch it. Who cares about WallStreet. It is a Big Casino in a way it determines Economy. Its a Parasite sucking the US dry.
I know about trading, but they shouldn't be trading people living hood with mortgages and other ideas. Yes people were stupid who took a house and couldn't afford it but WallStreet shouldn't put that in WallStreet and then collapse and still make money off of it. But it is in the way that politicians are now cutting programs to "Curve the Deficit" when I can give two shits about the Deficit.
Did you hear the part about how the police and fire-fighters don't have any benefits? Their medical "insurance" is money that is put into a savings account. The problem with privatisation is that the ONLY incentive becomes cost, and that isn't always as desirable as public accountability.
Did you hear the part about how the police and fire-fighters don't have any benefits? Their medical "insurance" is money that is put into a savings account. The problem with privatisation is that the ONLY incentive becomes cost, and that isn't always as desirable as public accountability.
@endomorphosis They are call HSA or Health Savings Accounts and I wish I had one. It would be much better than the insurance I have as I can spend it on whatever I want. This is actually a great idea.
@utmwaters5 1) you don't HAVE to buy health insurance when your employer offers it. You can simply not have it.
2)The only "advantage" of a HSA is that it's pre-tax. Unless you spend thousands on health care, the pre-tax isn't even a blip on your financial radar.
3) if you want one, just open a savings account and put money in it. If you pick a decent account, you can be paid interest on the money you put in there. HSA doesn't give interest.
@utmwaters5 4) if you don't spend the HSA within the fiscal year, you lose the money. As in your employer keeps it. They keep YOUR money that YOU put in the account. Does that sound better than a regular savings account where they PAY YOU?
@neversphere ah, in that case, if you want an HSA, you can open one on your own. Many banks offer them. Its nicer if its offered through your employer but you dont' have to go through them to get one.
Libertarians get theoretical when it comes to poor people... Again what a surprise. Talk of the golden day where we all escape govt. control. ... What can I possibly say to that. OMG, you guys got me on the ropes now! Libertarian [you pet utopia] works or at least could, you just aren't doing it right... Sandy Springs is a libertarian community fail.
Shhhhh if the people find out we don't need liberals controlling every aspect of our lives they are likely to seek freedom from Govt. Controls ! EEEEEEKKKKKKKKKKKK
There you guys go again. You make it seem like. This is sustainable to do this with any community. A wealthy community can try almost any combination of assembly and be successful. a bunch of wealthy people choosing facism, or communism, or even anarcho-syndication would have a grand old time because they are already very comfortable. Politics is the strong delegating power to the weak. They just gave to themselves. This was totally uninteresting.
@quixoteles88 Because spending twice as much money to get less is more sustainable? A competitive market is more important for the poor than it is for the rich. The rich have enough excess to suffer waste, but the poor do not.
It should be noted that the annual median income in Sandy Springs was over $130,000 (one of the highest in the nation) and the % of people below poverty line was ridiculously low. That being said, privatizing government in Sandy Springs works because of the affluence. If you did this to a large city with an average annual median income, without the affluence, it would be an absolute disaster.
@MrTurdFurgeson How about that judge up in PA who was getting kickbacks from the privately run jail to give longer sentences and perhaps convict innocent people? There are SOME services that should not be for profit.
this story gives the impression that Sandy Springs is an utopia, a perfect world. however, let's get some facts out. it's a Republican and an affluent city. those two things alone make this city exclusionary. that means if you make less money than the residents, you can't live there because you don't share the same values as these people. notice how everyone in the video is white. that's because no one of color wants to live there or wouldn't fit in. i can go on and on about my criticism.
Have you ever lived there? I have and you don't know what you are talking about. If you believe poorer and non-white folks do not live there try visiting the area
1) down around I-285 and Roswell Road
2) along Roswell Road north of Abernathy Road
3) around Dunwoody Place
Go on and on if you like. But it will just be more useless ranting.
Sandy Springs is hardly affluent. It is mostly middle-to-upper-middle class. For true affluence go to Buckhead.
@mjzink1 I concur, there is a mix. However, the well developed center around the king and queen, as well as the hospitals and other developments in that part bring significant and recurring tax revenue that many cities do not have. For god's sake, Intercontinental Hotels has it's administrative base there, not to mention Ebix and many other huge companies...
not to mention one of the largest retail hubs in that part of the city (it's where I go and I live in Norcross), and educational institutions, like Art Institute, etc...ALL of this existed before, and has for 15 or so years for the most part. I applaud a well run city center, and efficiency, but sheesh, it's easy to walk into a successful restaurant and say "well, we can stop using disposable silverware and save 100 quid a week" and claim savings.
Your analogy is flawed. This is not about "saving 100 quid a week." This is about avoiding the long run obligations that are crippling states and municipalities all over the nation. Sandy Springs chose to do it by outsourcing. This should not be a big deal and cause all the outrage it has here as they are still paying for services. They are contracting out the services and it is up to the service providers to price that service in accordance with SS's SLA requirements.
Sandy Springs is lucky here in that they have not been a city long enough to get into trouble as others have. One problem with this video is it trumpets the financial angle only. It remains to be seen if they can be serviced adequately for a reasonable cost * in the long run *, not just a year or two. One of the reasons SS incorporated was because residents were upset with the services received versus taxes paid.
This may or may not work for others. But costs have to come down.
@thanggnguyen Well, I know plenty of people of color who do live there, so your bollocking is a bit stupid. But, you are a racist, so 'color' me surprised.
@thanggnguyen Sandy Bridges is 65.0% white? Check your demographics son, before you make typical stereotypical leftist comments. ACCEPT THE TRUTH. DON'T BE BLIND
@Kubrick1989 Base on your comment, you must believe that every person has either lived in Sandy Springs or the Atlanta area at some point in their life. Before you start calling people an idiot, you need to stop acting like one yourself. And don't try to make out that liberals aren't rich either. BTW: Other cities are starting to do the same, even the Feds.
YAY! Now if the whole country was a rich enclave like Sandy Springs, GA . . . I want to see how this model work in the Liberty City, FL. Did anyone find suspicious that there were not black people in this video? This is Atlanta for crying out loud . . .
@Kubrick1989 they are paying for their roads. They are paying for their parks. They are paying for their trash service. They are paying for their cops. They are paying for their firemen. No other cities are having to pay for any of the services in SS. THEY ARE PAYING. Those bastards. They have no long term debt. A-holes. They aren't having to lay anyone off. Jerks.
@englanddg public schools in Georgia are run by the county. This is a law and the only exceptions are the city schools that are 'grandfathered' in (Marietta and Atlanta for example). Sandy Springs is in Fulton county.
@Kubrick1989 Completely offensive? Seriously? Dude, grow a pair. What have I said that you find so offensive?
Private contractors have to HIRE people. It's not like there aren't jobs! Stuff doesn't get done by magic when it's a private contractor. But you can bet your ass it's alot more efficient and less costly.
@Kubrick1989 Oh c'mon! Are SS roads off limits to non-SS residents? The parks? Businesses? Please. You think SS residents aren't paying income tax, sales tax, death tax, property tax, gas tax, FICA, etc etc etc?
@Kubrick1989 Said like a true socialist! Do you think only SS can benefit from this type of system? Other cities could also save 50% on running their gov't in the same manner. The private companies have to hire people to handle city services and with this method they actually have to be accountable. Imagine that! They don't perform, they get fired. Genius!
@Kubrick1989 Let the name calling begin huh? You frickin moron. See how easy that was? Nice job not answering any of the questions? Why should the city pay double for inferior services? They shouldn't and you know it. And pensions are most certainly a huge part of the problem. Almost none of the public employee pension plans are fully funded and many of them are in terrible shape. Tons of obligations with not enough money to pay. Pretty simple. "Credited economist" my ass. What's your solution?
This is just another form of segregation. The rich cities in the county will decide reincorporate while the poor cities will be left in squalor. This is a essentially what libertarians dream of, a private community where taxes stay low because it's residents do not have to contribute to the rest of the county. Sandy Springs doesn't offer "defined" benefits to its Police/Fire Fighters, they've even adopted the GOP's health saving's accounts that will be insufficient, wonder what they'll do then?
This video is now posted on Huffington Post. Get ready for the liberal invasion. I bet they are already parachuting socialists into that town to take down the mayor and raise taxes.
@Kubrick1989 This certainly is a success story. Let me guess, when you have a chance to get equal or better service for less money, you don't do it right? How is them paying a bunch of gov't workers fat salaries and pensions a success in your mind? EVERY city could save tons of money by privatizing the way SS did. Look around the country man, cities everywhere are buried in debt mostly due to unsustainable pensions. How is that possibly a better system than what SS is doing?
They got services for the taxes that were being extorted from them. I don't get the idea this is a rich town, namely because rich people wouldn't have congregated where there were bad roads. The rest of the county had to double their taxes to make up for the suck of public employee union and costs on their wallets. This has nothing to do with race or social status. It has to do with people having enough of their own governments running mob rule on them.
I read on WIki that Sandy Springs had to BUY back the parks from Fulton County... the parks in their own area. And sadly, the public schools are still run by the city of Atlanta.
There is enough wealth in the black communities to support and supply their own neighbourhoods, if they demand efficient, responsive gov't, as the people of Sandy Springs evidently seem to do.
Supporting teacher unions, endless layers of bureaucracy, and destructive 'welfare programs' will burden any peoples.
Boris: Is bourgeious stealing vonce agains from the proletariat! How dare they take ahnd keeps money that they work hard for and earns... capitalist schwine!
Natasha: Their monies should go to the politbureau and ze government to give to their friends and for my new flat screen TV.
It's a race thing because the blacks are trying sue saying the vote to incorporate our cities up North violated a 1960's voter right acts law about super majorities. They are ignorant and want to keep sucking up our money for themselves. They are attempting to block the formation of our county that gets us away from the awful and racist government in Fulton County. Further, they are wrong about the supermajority. We are over 20% asian up here.
Racism means organizing into a group based on arbitrary characteristics -- skin color (blacks), no penis (feminists), same sex sexual fetish (homosexists), language (Hispanics) -- and then racing for superior privileges granted by those wielding power of Officialdom. Those of Officialdom pay for those privileges with absconded money called "income taxes."
Sadly, far too many conflate the concept of Racism with Racialism, the latter being an anthropological belief.
This video is such nonsense. Sandy Springs is very affluent, with very high property values and a huge property tax base. White folks didn't want their tax dollars going to benefit the kids of black people (or poor whites) in South Fulton, and so they decided to split off and go their own way.
That's their perogative, but please... don't pretend that it's about fiscal responsibility. It's 100% an Us-vs-Them mentality, and the wealthy "taking care of their own", to everyone else's detriment.
@warblingtransistor I fail to see how this is whites vs. blacks. They took a system that was leaking capital and they fixed it. They even ended up with better services as a result. Every *American* in the area benefited. There is no need to separate people into arbitrary and nearly meaningless groups. I believe the American dream is possible for everyone - even legal immigrants (like myself) - regardless of what color of skin God assigned them.
@warblingtransistor Nice try cramming words in my mouth. No, leaking capital would be instances of excessive administrative expenditures, overpaying for goods, and buying unneeded commodities. The government providing food and shelter is not leaking capital - though I do believe that the private sector does a far better job with charities.
You amuse, @warblingtransistor. Unwittingly, all you have done is make the case that black-skinned, slave-descendant people whose ancestors were easily snatched from Africa are far inferior to those descendants of hardy English, Dutch and Palatinate German origin.
Your argument boils down to this: Superior Whites have become successful. Inferior Blacks have not. Rather than run away, Superior Whites ought to get forced to pay for Inferior Blacks, to master over them.
@TruthAxe Not just blacks... poor whites are undesirable in Sandy Springs as well. It's not just a race issue, though the racial aspect is significant due to the demographics involved in the geography. You do know how Fulton County is shaped, right?
The rest of your comment is just you being intentionally offensive, which says a lot about you.
You amuse, @warblingtransistor. Again! That you see offense says everything about you.
Open your mind rather than defending the indefensible.
Didn't your mommy and daddy teach you that stealing is wrong? What part of taking from others by force with the threat of imprisonment have you not figured out is stealing?
When men and women form groups, they lose all sense of the Golden Rules (do unto others, love thy neighbor) and revert to Law of Survival to perpetuate the group.
GREAT! We march on and on and on for LIBERTY. We will NEVER NEVER NEVER give up exposing the evil banksters who try to bankrupt cities. This is an idea whose time has come. Tell everyone!
this lawsuit is outright racism and genocide against the euro-american populace. we built this great country, and the turd colored losers want to ruin, well fuck them in their asses .
Georgia has more county divisions than any other State in the Union.This was not a move against Atlanta, it was a reaction to Fulton County. The State's Black Caucus has filed a suit against several cities outside Atlanta. They are using the "race card" for purely financial reasons. If you look at these areas today you will see black, white and latinos living in all of these areas. The issue is about getting services for taxes paid in- NOT - keeping money out of Atlanta.
this is what a city can be, when you sever yourself from all the leeches & lowlifes in da 'hood.. the bad news is, wherever productive self-sufficient people migrate to, the leeches eventually follow & proceed to drain all the resources, ruin the schools, neighborhoods, etc.
People in Sandy Springs commute into Atlanta to work.
And now, they avoid paying taxes to Atlanta. The "public-private partnership" has little to do with Sandy Springs' financial success. This is just rich people hoarding their money.
And when Atlanta crumbles, they'll all lose their jobs and have to move somewhere else.
@prophetmargin They don't avoid paying taxes to Atl. They keep Atl. going. Their rich for a reason, they are intelligent, also people in Marietta, Kennesaw, and Alpharetta, etc etc commute to Atl to work. Sandy Springs gets criticized because it is 80 % white.
@prophetmargin c'mon.. Atlanta has already crumbled, that's why cities like Sandy Springs are given life. For generations, people lived in the cities where they worked.. but since the era of welfare & public housing.. its no longer safe or sane to raise a family in urban areas. Schools in LA that were nice back in the day, are now wrapped up in barbed wire, the surrounding areas are covered in graffiti & kids barely speak English, why would productive ppl wanna stay in these toilets, grow up.
@prophetmargin At least they are not dumping their money into the entitlements system and when Atlanta crumbles, as you say, they will have the means and initiative to move somewhere else.
As a dyed in the wool liberal, I believe strongly that both libertarianism and communism CAN WORK FINE in a small town or kibbutz. Keep it small and local and you can make ANY kind of economic/social philosophy work out. Try doing this on a nation of 300 million and I do not believe it would work. Go back to the Article of Confederation, maybe....but be realistic...that ain't gonna happen on a national scale.
Only individuals act, a city can not outsource or decide, it does not exist in reality. You have a group of people who tax others and provide some services for their subjects. They claim to serve when they in fact rule. But at least it'better than gvt employees (extortionists) providing the services themselves. It would be better still not to provide any service through extortion.
American Third Position Party! Tired of leftists and Neocons? Tired of people using words? like racists and anti semite to try to silence their opponents? Tired of affirmative action? Tired of spending billions on upholding a overseas military empire? Tired of the? illegal alien invasion of the USA?
Look no further than at the American Third Position Party! Take a look at their homepage at american3p . org and take a look at their videos here on youtube.
It is a well-known fact that the wealthiest people in this nation pay nearly all the taxes. Its never a bad thing to have upper class communities as they are whats keeping poorer (and somehow putting tax returns into people who paid no taxes pockets) communities (and sadly casinos) operating.
Also, this is just like any other well-to-do "burb" in America. Only thing is is that they broke off from Atlanta. While most already had their own incorporation. For instance, Gross Pointe in Suburban Detroit. The taxes people in Groos Pointe and I assume Sandy Springs is what allows failure big cities like Atlanta, to keep overpaying for services and employees. Its not the other way around as mxcote is presenting it.
its funny how no one mentions why it costs so much to run a government. people pocket the money from the top down. its not fuckin rocket surgery. dont expect this to happen in most places.
What fantastic and very impressive story and if more of this type of modern model to operate governments were in place cities, states and the Fed government would not be facing draconian cuts in public services and raising taxes.
I work for a city and definitely support outsourcing when it makes sense/works well. But it also seems that you have to guard against an "inmates running the asylum" situation, where outside contractors run the show with zero accountability
@gbillman43 Not all contracts--nor contractors--are created equal. Some contracts can be very hard to get out of. This is especially the case if the contractor/vendor has powerful lawyers on their side and threatens to sue at the first hint of termination talk. Further, if they do end up suing, it gives the town a black eye and makes it difficult to attract other vendors. Not necessarily disagreeing in theory, but it's not so simple
My mother lives in one of these new cities that have been formed in fulton county, and just so you'll know, the taxes went up because not only are they still paying the same county tax rate to fulton county but now they also have to pay a city tax.....
Porsche of N.A., UPS, Wendy's, Rubbermaid and many other Fortune 500 companies are located here, which is one reason why Sandy Springs broke off from Atlanta - to keep the tax base for themselves.
@mxcote You say that like it's a bad thing, or shady in some way. Well, I'm wondering, why SHOULD the taxes from First-World white genius and productivity go a bunch of backward Fourth-world Africans just because Jews brought them to our land in their slave ships for the gentrified classes in the Western Hemisphere 400 years ago? The superior beings of White Humanity turned into tax slaves to subsidize the survival of inferior, nearly useless Black Humanity is what makes no sense. LOL
@mxcote yes but you're just not getting it. It's far more appealing to be overly simplistic in presentation of city model than use those darned "facts". Clearly every city across the USA has their own UPS or other well-run company, and can therefore change city planning on a dime with great results.
@skamakozi I argue (as a qualified city planner) that this video is far too simplistic, and that once one adds a layer of basic demographics, a clearer picture arises. The video doesn't show it's 93% white, extremely rich, and socially closed. Atlanta lost a portion of it's county to a rich, white faction that 1) hypocritically depends on external taxes to supply its services and 2) keeps a disproportionately high level of taxes from businesses that existed post facto it's 2005 incorporation.
@mxcote So basically what you are saying is....because someone no longer has to have their hard earned money taken from them and givin to some gangbangers food stamp account they are hypocrites?
@SeanP7195 No. The city's services (police, fire, housing, sewer, water, electric, and street, park and school maintenance, etc) are paid for in large part by Fulton County, Georgia state, and Federal tax payers and NOT 100% by Sandy Springs taxpayers as this video alludes. The city is deeply dependent on other people's "hard earned money." Google: sandy springs ga capital program filetype:pdf
@mxcote But aren't they paying for all those services in high taxation? I'm not sure how their school maintencance, sewer and water is being paid for by "Federal taxes". Is it anything like in Detroit, where the water treatment and sewage facilities are in Detroit and therefore operated (poorly) by Detroit and they force all the surrounding communities to use them at no other choice and the taxation of them increases yearly to cover for ineptness and waste.
@mxcote Can't you make this same argument about any copmmunity large or small int he entire nation? Are you telling me Atlanta is not dependent on Federal monies? Are you stating that the state taxes (acquired mainly in part by successful corporations and high wage earners) is not the life blood which keeps Atlanta moving? Clearly you aren't this naive.
@SeanP7195 Thanks for the dialog. Sandy Springs is presenting itself as a self-contained government. This is demonstrably not true. As we can see from the youtube comments, people believe Sandy Springs is some sort of Randian Utopia of self-reliance, completely independent of outside sources of tax revenues. All untrue. And it seems you and I agree on this. :D As for "federal taxes" I was just referring to the standard programs: CDBG, FEMA, HS, and transportation outlays, grants and assistance.
Some idiots have filed a racist lawsuit against this city and others like it, mainly because they are "super-majority white" communities. The residents of these cities seek proper representation as they did not see their hard earned money, taken through taxes by the county, being appropriately apportioned. They are against something our founding father's called "taxation without representation". Some black non-residents are seeking the taxes of the city residents for their use and benefit.
This is brilliant. THIS is the ingenuity of the American Spirit. THIS is not something that government can do. It takes PEOPLE working at the local level to do this. Washington could learn a thing or two by visiting this city. Bravo!!
@1family4me yes, isn't it wonderful when wealthy people band together to keep their money all in the same place and keep the darkies out? wow so great, and great for the country too!!
@1family4me Yep, the T party slash conservative movement is fueled primarily by racism and fear. You know it, I know it, everybody knows it. Would be refreshing if more of you had the guts to just come out and say it, although to conservative credit the racism is pretty much out in the open on youtube, if not on television. Bigoted, fearful, ugly stupid people too damn dumb to realize how dumb you are. What a world you must live in, I pity you.
@bernie4366 LOL! So then Black Conservatives are what? Self racists? LMAO!! How ignorant. "I don't like you or agree with you so you must be a racist." Do yourself
This is the up-side of capitalism and radical privatization. Consider the down-side for a second.
Hope your not poor - or your utterly FUCKED.
nunitoism 5 days ago
The fact that they have created a reserve speaks volumes and those who oppose their methods are just plain stupid.
devmonbar 2 months ago
I think most of these money draining cities should look more to outsourcing.
devmonbar 2 months ago
@chokeu2 Do you really trust corporate interests which revolve solely around money?
aZrevolution 2 months ago
@aZrevolution Yes, they must satisfy a client for them to profit in the first place unless cronyism is involved.
Do you trust government control which revolves solely around power?
StateExempt 2 months ago
@aZrevolution - Yes, they rely on consumer satisfaction to get their money in the first place unless significant cronyism is in the picture.
Do you really trust government control which revolves solely around the pursuit of power?
StateExempt 2 months ago
i saw tons of jobs availble in geogia...... is this for real or what ?
90122123769462375608 4 months ago
The sweet irony here is that ReasonTV is a libertarian channel praising the efficient running of a city gov't. The gov't of Sandy Springs still provides the public services, it simply uses private companies to provide those services and lower it's costs. Residents still call 911 when they need help not a private emergency company. This is definitely NOT THE LIBERTARIAN POSITION. This is an OUTSOURCED GOV'T not the reduced un-involved gov't of libertarian ism. OH, THE IRONY....hahahahaha
a46475 4 months ago
@a46475 The sweet irony here is that you are treating evidence of market efficiency as evidence that government is efficient. This increase in overall productivity was due to the fact that government was playing a smaller role than it once was - precisely what Libertarians advocate.
StateExempt 2 months ago
HURRAY for Sandy Springs, GA! 8-)
i wish other governments — City/County, State, and Federal — would likewise get such a clue!
infinityBBC 5 months ago
Oh....I'm sorry, the county goes even more so...with respect to education.
englanddg 5 months ago
I've had two comments to me that the state requires that schools are state funded...
The response is quite simple. Sandy Springs doesn't provide every city service...the county subsidizes some, as does the state.
As was my original point, the video misrepresents.
englanddg 5 months ago
Government leaders - LEADING with fiscal responsibility! Woo-hoo!
brannoncpa 6 months ago 2
Makes Sense, but then again, that is not something a Democrat would understand. Can't wait till government run healthcare starts...
TheJivinIvan 6 months ago 3
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If it works, why not?
fuchenstein 7 months ago
@Kubrick1989 However, Sandy Springs does exist because there is massive corruption and waste in Atlanta City and Fulton County, as well as programs like MARTA...were the assembly wise, they'd wake up to the trend.
englanddg 7 months ago
@chokeu2 What you are missing is that...it was always a nice place to live.
englanddg 7 months ago
@chokeu2 It's quite clear, you're part of the city that is well off, who doesn't want to support the rest of the city. Nothing wrong with that. But, it's easier to make a business more efficient, then it is to start one. Sandy Springs didn't start anything.
englanddg 7 months ago
@chokeu2 You misunderstand. The efficiencies are a good thing. However, Sandy Springs is a horrible example to use. It's significantly well off, has a thriving economy, and it's silly to think that the capital investment that built the tax base Sandy Springs now thrives on did not take many city/county service investments (many of which you still rely upon, such as Fulton County Schools and MARTA).
englanddg 7 months ago
@englanddg
"... and it's silly to think that the capital investment that built the tax base Sandy Springs now thrives on did not take many city/county service investments (many of which you still rely upon, such as Fulton County Schools and MARTA)"
And Sandy Springs residents paid county property taxes and state property and sales taxes used to fund these projects before and after incorporation as a city.
mjzink1 7 months ago
@mjzink1 Yes, they did. And those taxes built a community that they inherited...you miss my point. It's easy to take a system that is established and make it more efficient...any system really. it's far more difficult to create a system in and of itself. Fulton County made Sandy Springs, to call Sandy Springs amazing is silly. It's merely a well off portion of the city that found a way to be more efficient. I am not attacking Sandy Springs. I just think to call it a model is a bit silly.
englanddg 5 months ago
I grew up just north of Sandy Springs in the 60s. Use to come up to get a ice cream float at Baukums Drug Store. I was a nice town then....peaceful. I visited again in the 90s, only to be surrounded by traffic and hundreds of illegal (mostly) Mexicans and street thugs lining the sidewalks. I don't know anything about the politics of the area now...and I don't want to. I only know it was a much better place years ago.
ssmrcoffee 7 months ago
@ssmrcoffee Are you sure you didn't make a wrong turn on Moreland Ave?
englanddg 7 months ago
"As soon as the majority became republican, we passed the Bill to authorize the referendum in Sandy Springs, and it passed with 92% of the vote." Typical democrats; after as much power over people as they can get without using totalitarian means, at least in this case. Democrats, the party of big government; the bigger and more centralized, the better.
jbranstetter04 8 months ago
I don't give a crap about Sandy Springs or it's way over priced cost of living.
IT'S IN THE STATE OF GEORGIA! And THAT alone is reason to stay as far away as possible!
bordercollieluv 8 months ago
@chokeu2 Wow, what a Utopia. CH2MHill. No corruption coming from that foreign corporation. A few years down the line when someone who is not on their payroll exposes they have been overcharging you for this, and falsely charging you for that you can just drop them from their contract right? But wait! The contract their high priced lawyers penned up and your officials were to lazy or stupid to read has a clause that says you owe them millions for dropping them early. Suckers
carsnails 8 months ago
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Lavard14 9 months ago
I live in Sandy Springs. U can get a 1 bed apartment in the city for as little as $500 and as much as $1200 and own here from the low 200s to multiple millions. Sandy Springs is also very diverse with large and noticeable hispanic and black populations. MOST of the homeowners in the city are white. MOST are middle and upper middle class. Wealthy areas: 30327 and 30342(mostly Buckhead) and the SW corner of 30328. 30350(umc) is a waste of money, poor schools lots of apts in the zip.
JonzelleBlahnik 9 months ago
Oh, and Sandy Springs has higher per/person operating costs and total budgetary expenditures compared to Fulton County, the county they just left if the first lie of omission in this video was not enough to convince you.
That is right. Sandy Springs doesn't even achieve cost savings.
Goumindong 9 months ago
@Goumindong
So what? The relevant piece of information is in the vid - that compared to *itself* prior to the outsourcing, Sandy Springs provides the same services (some actually improved) at half of what they were spending before the outsourcing.
stealthswimmer 7 months ago
@Goumindong
oops, i messed up. It compares it to a "traditionally run city" which probably means something like the average
stealthswimmer 7 months ago
I lived in SS for three years. Worked there too. Its actually only a city because they incorporated. The whole of SS is surrounded by Atlanta just like decatur. But its where all the rich people live. Their roads were fine, I don't know WHAT she's talking about. When I lived there (2001-2004) there was tons of road widening going on but the rest of the roads were in fantastic shape. She's LYING.
And referring to city workers as "long term liabilities"? nice.
smibbo 9 months ago
It's kind of difficult to watch this video with all that straw in the way.
deliciouscrusties 9 months ago 3
In case you're wondering, Sandy Springs has roughly 3 times the per-capita income of Atlanta, the city that the city that they decry as "the problem".
I am shocked, shocked to learn that there is dishonesty going on in here
Goumindong 9 months ago 3
Excellent example of what is possible.
leahmarjorie 10 months ago 24
The linchpin of Sandy Springs success is not using defined benefits. Most cities outsource the other stuff nowadays anyway - it's the pensions that kill them.
geakerson 10 months ago
Libertarianism at work. This is a good model for other cities. Why don't they privatize the police and fire?
LibertarianBob 10 months ago
Do --ANY--- of you commenters actually live or work in Sandy Springs? or are you just jealous of their sucess? The city of Atlanta somehow was getting a ton of tax money from what is now SS and so was Fulton County, The leadership in Fulton County took a ll the tax money and spent it on vote buying schemes in South Fulton County, totally ignoring the needs and desires of the people paying most of the bill,.Try calling Fulton County and reporting a pothole, then call SS.
userbronco 10 months ago
@userbronco Potholes are Bush's fault!
englanddg 7 months ago
So, why can't our U.S. Government use this tactic???????
sdrnek22 10 months ago
@sdrnek22 two words - government employee unions
pyeager56 10 months ago 2
The idea is great but it cannot be usable template for every other city. Plus outsourcing will lower the "revenue" in the state, hence cutting services to the people who need them.
Plus about the pension idea. Does it included all public employees in the city? Or just police and firefighters? I don't want some Wall-Street guy gamble my 401(k). Funny thing is Poway CA is similar to Sandy Springs but didn't outsource their programs and they usually bring in extra anyways because of their business
ZSwierczynski 10 months ago
@ZSwierczynski Yeah those douchebags on Wall Street know nothing about investment; let's pass that responsibility onto bureaucrats and politicians. Always worked in the past.
SpellboundSolution 10 months ago
@SpellboundSolution
Who say I want a bureaucrat or politician for my pension. Wall Street doesn't know anything about real investments because they just gamble everything into a giant casino and makes us bail them out. So you wanted to Bailout WallStreet? I would of let it burn. Politicians and Bureaucrats are wallstreet front.
ZSwierczynski 10 months ago
@ZSwierczynski Well that shows you precisely dick about Wall Street functions. Who would you delegate the job of managing your pension to then?
SpellboundSolution 10 months ago
@SpellboundSolution
How I'm a dick? I don't how much they make, but by taking services that people need when they are desperate are gone. So my dad should die when they cut Medicare because of his new heart? While a Wall Street CEO makes 3x to 4x as a CEO. I would delegate myself for my pension, while making an agreement between the city government and my occupation. I don't care about WallStreet but it doesn't provide jobs. It give Jobs to an Oligarchy of people who hate you and me.
ZSwierczynski 10 months ago
@ZSwierczynski I didn't say you are a dick, I said that you know dick (i.e. nothing) about how trading on the stock market works. It's not "people killing my dad by playing in a big casino". And if you allow your local/city government to manage your pension then you ARE delegating that role to politicians and government bureaucrats!
SpellboundSolution 10 months ago
@SpellboundSolution
I didn't say anything about delegating the role to the politicians and bureaucrats. I'm saying when I work for that city, I work something out for somesort of Pension fund with the local government. Hence they must keep their promise if I donate my own pay. Then I demand they equal it out like a 401(k) but noone except me can touch it. Who cares about WallStreet. It is a Big Casino in a way it determines Economy. Its a Parasite sucking the US dry.
ZSwierczynski 10 months ago
@SpellboundSolution
Cont.
I know about trading, but they shouldn't be trading people living hood with mortgages and other ideas. Yes people were stupid who took a house and couldn't afford it but WallStreet shouldn't put that in WallStreet and then collapse and still make money off of it. But it is in the way that politicians are now cutting programs to "Curve the Deficit" when I can give two shits about the Deficit.
ZSwierczynski 10 months ago
its successful because there aren't any black people
/s
td45 10 months ago
Proof we do not need the Nanny state control freaks!
9971explorer 10 months ago 2
Did you hear the part about how the police and fire-fighters don't have any benefits? Their medical "insurance" is money that is put into a savings account. The problem with privatisation is that the ONLY incentive becomes cost, and that isn't always as desirable as public accountability.
endomorphosis 10 months ago
Did you hear the part about how the police and fire-fighters don't have any benefits? Their medical "insurance" is money that is put into a savings account. The problem with privatisation is that the ONLY incentive becomes cost, and that isn't always as desirable as public accountability.
endomorphosis 10 months ago
@endomorphosis They are call HSA or Health Savings Accounts and I wish I had one. It would be much better than the insurance I have as I can spend it on whatever I want. This is actually a great idea.
utmwaters5 10 months ago
@utmwaters5 1) you don't HAVE to buy health insurance when your employer offers it. You can simply not have it.
2)The only "advantage" of a HSA is that it's pre-tax. Unless you spend thousands on health care, the pre-tax isn't even a blip on your financial radar.
3) if you want one, just open a savings account and put money in it. If you pick a decent account, you can be paid interest on the money you put in there. HSA doesn't give interest.
smibbo 9 months ago
@utmwaters5 4) if you don't spend the HSA within the fiscal year, you lose the money. As in your employer keeps it. They keep YOUR money that YOU put in the account. Does that sound better than a regular savings account where they PAY YOU?
smibbo 9 months ago
@smibbo Um, no. You are thinking of an FSA. An HSA is basically a health 401k. Tax Free and yours but you can only spend it on health items.
neversphere 9 months ago
@neversphere ah, in that case, if you want an HSA, you can open one on your own. Many banks offer them. Its nicer if its offered through your employer but you dont' have to go through them to get one.
smibbo 9 months ago
Libertarians get theoretical when it comes to poor people... Again what a surprise. Talk of the golden day where we all escape govt. control. ... What can I possibly say to that. OMG, you guys got me on the ropes now! Libertarian [you pet utopia] works or at least could, you just aren't doing it right... Sandy Springs is a libertarian community fail.
DefenderofRoses 10 months ago
Shhhhh if the people find out we don't need liberals controlling every aspect of our lives they are likely to seek freedom from Govt. Controls ! EEEEEEKKKKKKKKKKKK
hobo59 10 months ago 2
There you guys go again. You make it seem like. This is sustainable to do this with any community. A wealthy community can try almost any combination of assembly and be successful. a bunch of wealthy people choosing facism, or communism, or even anarcho-syndication would have a grand old time because they are already very comfortable. Politics is the strong delegating power to the weak. They just gave to themselves. This was totally uninteresting.
quixoteles88 10 months ago
@quixoteles88 Because spending twice as much money to get less is more sustainable? A competitive market is more important for the poor than it is for the rich. The rich have enough excess to suffer waste, but the poor do not.
Ragnarokgn 10 months ago 2
It should be noted that the annual median income in Sandy Springs was over $130,000 (one of the highest in the nation) and the % of people below poverty line was ridiculously low. That being said, privatizing government in Sandy Springs works because of the affluence. If you did this to a large city with an average annual median income, without the affluence, it would be an absolute disaster.
sesamestreetgang 10 months ago
@sesamestreetgang
Could you state exactly why privatizing in a larger town would be a disaster? What would make it any different?
MrTurdFurgeson 10 months ago 2
@MrTurdFurgeson How about that judge up in PA who was getting kickbacks from the privately run jail to give longer sentences and perhaps convict innocent people? There are SOME services that should not be for profit.
earthsbullsh 10 months ago
this story gives the impression that Sandy Springs is an utopia, a perfect world. however, let's get some facts out. it's a Republican and an affluent city. those two things alone make this city exclusionary. that means if you make less money than the residents, you can't live there because you don't share the same values as these people. notice how everyone in the video is white. that's because no one of color wants to live there or wouldn't fit in. i can go on and on about my criticism.
thanggnguyen 10 months ago
@thanggnguyen
Have you ever lived there? I have and you don't know what you are talking about. If you believe poorer and non-white folks do not live there try visiting the area
1) down around I-285 and Roswell Road
2) along Roswell Road north of Abernathy Road
3) around Dunwoody Place
Go on and on if you like. But it will just be more useless ranting.
Sandy Springs is hardly affluent. It is mostly middle-to-upper-middle class. For true affluence go to Buckhead.
mjzink1 10 months ago
@mjzink1 I concur, there is a mix. However, the well developed center around the king and queen, as well as the hospitals and other developments in that part bring significant and recurring tax revenue that many cities do not have. For god's sake, Intercontinental Hotels has it's administrative base there, not to mention Ebix and many other huge companies...
englanddg 7 months ago
not to mention one of the largest retail hubs in that part of the city (it's where I go and I live in Norcross), and educational institutions, like Art Institute, etc...ALL of this existed before, and has for 15 or so years for the most part. I applaud a well run city center, and efficiency, but sheesh, it's easy to walk into a successful restaurant and say "well, we can stop using disposable silverware and save 100 quid a week" and claim savings.
englanddg 7 months ago
@englanddg
Your analogy is flawed. This is not about "saving 100 quid a week." This is about avoiding the long run obligations that are crippling states and municipalities all over the nation. Sandy Springs chose to do it by outsourcing. This should not be a big deal and cause all the outrage it has here as they are still paying for services. They are contracting out the services and it is up to the service providers to price that service in accordance with SS's SLA requirements.
mjzink1 7 months ago 4
@englanddg
Sandy Springs is lucky here in that they have not been a city long enough to get into trouble as others have. One problem with this video is it trumpets the financial angle only. It remains to be seen if they can be serviced adequately for a reasonable cost * in the long run *, not just a year or two. One of the reasons SS incorporated was because residents were upset with the services received versus taxes paid.
This may or may not work for others. But costs have to come down.
mjzink1 7 months ago
@thanggnguyen Well, I know plenty of people of color who do live there, so your bollocking is a bit stupid. But, you are a racist, so 'color' me surprised.
englanddg 7 months ago
@thanggnguyen Sandy Bridges is 65.0% white? Check your demographics son, before you make typical stereotypical leftist comments. ACCEPT THE TRUTH. DON'T BE BLIND
FreeminderUK 6 months ago 2
@Kubrick1989 Base on your comment, you must believe that every person has either lived in Sandy Springs or the Atlanta area at some point in their life. Before you start calling people an idiot, you need to stop acting like one yourself. And don't try to make out that liberals aren't rich either. BTW: Other cities are starting to do the same, even the Feds.
streetrace442 10 months ago
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Is that Pat Buchanan impersonating Margaret Thatcher?
sgomez64 10 months ago
Is that Pat Buchanan impersonating Margareth Thatcher?
sgomez64 10 months ago
YAY! Now if the whole country was a rich enclave like Sandy Springs, GA . . . I want to see how this model work in the Liberty City, FL. Did anyone find suspicious that there were not black people in this video? This is Atlanta for crying out loud . . .
sgomez64 10 months ago
@Kubrick1989 they are paying for their roads. They are paying for their parks. They are paying for their trash service. They are paying for their cops. They are paying for their firemen. No other cities are having to pay for any of the services in SS. THEY ARE PAYING. Those bastards. They have no long term debt. A-holes. They aren't having to lay anyone off. Jerks.
bigvoodoo 10 months ago
@bigvoodoo What about schools?
englanddg 7 months ago
@englanddg public schools in Georgia are run by the county. This is a law and the only exceptions are the city schools that are 'grandfathered' in (Marietta and Atlanta for example). Sandy Springs is in Fulton county.
dustinto 5 months ago
@Kubrick1989 Completely offensive? Seriously? Dude, grow a pair. What have I said that you find so offensive?
Private contractors have to HIRE people. It's not like there aren't jobs! Stuff doesn't get done by magic when it's a private contractor. But you can bet your ass it's alot more efficient and less costly.
bigvoodoo 10 months ago
@Kubrick1989 Oh c'mon! Are SS roads off limits to non-SS residents? The parks? Businesses? Please. You think SS residents aren't paying income tax, sales tax, death tax, property tax, gas tax, FICA, etc etc etc?
bigvoodoo 10 months ago
@Kubrick1989 Said like a true socialist! Do you think only SS can benefit from this type of system? Other cities could also save 50% on running their gov't in the same manner. The private companies have to hire people to handle city services and with this method they actually have to be accountable. Imagine that! They don't perform, they get fired. Genius!
bigvoodoo 10 months ago
@Kubrick1989 Let the name calling begin huh? You frickin moron. See how easy that was? Nice job not answering any of the questions? Why should the city pay double for inferior services? They shouldn't and you know it. And pensions are most certainly a huge part of the problem. Almost none of the public employee pension plans are fully funded and many of them are in terrible shape. Tons of obligations with not enough money to pay. Pretty simple. "Credited economist" my ass. What's your solution?
bigvoodoo 10 months ago
This is just another form of segregation. The rich cities in the county will decide reincorporate while the poor cities will be left in squalor. This is a essentially what libertarians dream of, a private community where taxes stay low because it's residents do not have to contribute to the rest of the county. Sandy Springs doesn't offer "defined" benefits to its Police/Fire Fighters, they've even adopted the GOP's health saving's accounts that will be insufficient, wonder what they'll do then?
maleki9 10 months ago
WARNING!!!
This video is now posted on Huffington Post. Get ready for the liberal invasion. I bet they are already parachuting socialists into that town to take down the mayor and raise taxes.
saper321 10 months ago
This is great.
Thanks for posting!
BrentAudi 10 months ago
Why is this on the Huffingtonpost lmao
This should be a model for the entire country, not just other cities
TheDubCollector 10 months ago
@Kubrick1989 This certainly is a success story. Let me guess, when you have a chance to get equal or better service for less money, you don't do it right? How is them paying a bunch of gov't workers fat salaries and pensions a success in your mind? EVERY city could save tons of money by privatizing the way SS did. Look around the country man, cities everywhere are buried in debt mostly due to unsustainable pensions. How is that possibly a better system than what SS is doing?
bigvoodoo 10 months ago
How much do workers get paid? Minimum wage??
- and NO pension!!!! It's the working stiff getting stiffed again.
expatted 10 months ago
Look at all those white people. They look like they have a great for profit community.
wynnj26 10 months ago
@KooturKoot So great you moved away. A ringing endorsement.
tismo70 10 months ago
gee, what a surprise, if your per-capita income is $130K, you can afford private services....
carlgt1 10 months ago
My county in N Ga is almost identical in size and demographics as Sandy Springs, and we are going broke.
chifour66 10 months ago
And the city workers go bye bye :/
again2021 10 months ago
this is beautiful. could help save the U.S.
kasyapa 10 months ago
@kasyapa If you live in a fantasy world, sure...
RazsterTW 10 months ago
RazsterTW - yes, because the $103T+ entitlement bomb coming our way is an illusion.
kasyapa 10 months ago
Is Sandy Springs on the terrorist watch list yet...lol
rustysruger 10 months ago
sorry, but contracting the whole city out to one PPP partner will fail.
once the city is dependent on that partner (which is very soon after it started) competition is gone.
it`ll be the blackwater of sandy springs.
myrelative 10 months ago
Until the majority of Americans realize that the purpose of Government is NOT to employ government workers, I'm afraid Sandy Springs will be unique.
larrybud 10 months ago 2
They got services for the taxes that were being extorted from them. I don't get the idea this is a rich town, namely because rich people wouldn't have congregated where there were bad roads. The rest of the county had to double their taxes to make up for the suck of public employee union and costs on their wallets. This has nothing to do with race or social status. It has to do with people having enough of their own governments running mob rule on them.
mannfm11 10 months ago
Wow, what a great idea. Too bad every city in america is not a wealthy suburb of a major city.
sudpud 10 months ago
Change!
Jorient405 10 months ago
This should be a model for other cities in the United States !
blrkeith 10 months ago 2
I read on WIki that Sandy Springs had to BUY back the parks from Fulton County... the parks in their own area. And sadly, the public schools are still run by the city of Atlanta.
There is enough wealth in the black communities to support and supply their own neighbourhoods, if they demand efficient, responsive gov't, as the people of Sandy Springs evidently seem to do.
Supporting teacher unions, endless layers of bureaucracy, and destructive 'welfare programs' will burden any peoples.
ToddYarling 10 months ago 2
Boris: Is bourgeious stealing vonce agains from the proletariat! How dare they take ahnd keeps money that they work hard for and earns... capitalist schwine!
Natasha: Their monies should go to the politbureau and ze government to give to their friends and for my new flat screen TV.
tonewah 10 months ago
It's a race thing because the blacks are trying sue saying the vote to incorporate our cities up North violated a 1960's voter right acts law about super majorities. They are ignorant and want to keep sucking up our money for themselves. They are attempting to block the formation of our county that gets us away from the awful and racist government in Fulton County. Further, they are wrong about the supermajority. We are over 20% asian up here.
GolferGalGA 10 months ago
@GolferGalGA Of course.
Racism means organizing into a group based on arbitrary characteristics -- skin color (blacks), no penis (feminists), same sex sexual fetish (homosexists), language (Hispanics) -- and then racing for superior privileges granted by those wielding power of Officialdom. Those of Officialdom pay for those privileges with absconded money called "income taxes."
Sadly, far too many conflate the concept of Racism with Racialism, the latter being an anthropological belief.
TruthAxe 10 months ago
This video is such nonsense. Sandy Springs is very affluent, with very high property values and a huge property tax base. White folks didn't want their tax dollars going to benefit the kids of black people (or poor whites) in South Fulton, and so they decided to split off and go their own way.
That's their perogative, but please... don't pretend that it's about fiscal responsibility. It's 100% an Us-vs-Them mentality, and the wealthy "taking care of their own", to everyone else's detriment.
warblingtransistor 10 months ago
@warblingtransistor I fail to see how this is whites vs. blacks. They took a system that was leaking capital and they fixed it. They even ended up with better services as a result. Every *American* in the area benefited. There is no need to separate people into arbitrary and nearly meaningless groups. I believe the American dream is possible for everyone - even legal immigrants (like myself) - regardless of what color of skin God assigned them.
pkninja47 10 months ago
@pkninja47 So now the fact that poor people exist, and sometimes are benefited by public services, is "leaking capital"? Give me a break.
warblingtransistor 10 months ago
@warblingtransistor Nice try cramming words in my mouth. No, leaking capital would be instances of excessive administrative expenditures, overpaying for goods, and buying unneeded commodities. The government providing food and shelter is not leaking capital - though I do believe that the private sector does a far better job with charities.
pkninja47 10 months ago
You amuse, @warblingtransistor. Unwittingly, all you have done is make the case that black-skinned, slave-descendant people whose ancestors were easily snatched from Africa are far inferior to those descendants of hardy English, Dutch and Palatinate German origin.
Your argument boils down to this: Superior Whites have become successful. Inferior Blacks have not. Rather than run away, Superior Whites ought to get forced to pay for Inferior Blacks, to master over them.
TruthAxe 10 months ago
@TruthAxe Not just blacks... poor whites are undesirable in Sandy Springs as well. It's not just a race issue, though the racial aspect is significant due to the demographics involved in the geography. You do know how Fulton County is shaped, right?
The rest of your comment is just you being intentionally offensive, which says a lot about you.
warblingtransistor 10 months ago
You amuse, @warblingtransistor. Again! That you see offense says everything about you.
Open your mind rather than defending the indefensible.
Didn't your mommy and daddy teach you that stealing is wrong? What part of taking from others by force with the threat of imprisonment have you not figured out is stealing?
When men and women form groups, they lose all sense of the Golden Rules (do unto others, love thy neighbor) and revert to Law of Survival to perpetuate the group.
TruthAxe 10 months ago
Take notice of what they said, when the democRATS no longer had control...
streetrace442 10 months ago
Be sure to see "Fall of the Republic" on youtube. WE CAN OVERCOME the people who intentionally put our cities into debt.
WiseOneNoDrugs 10 months ago
GREAT! We march on and on and on for LIBERTY. We will NEVER NEVER NEVER give up exposing the evil banksters who try to bankrupt cities. This is an idea whose time has come. Tell everyone!
WiseOneNoDrugs 10 months ago
this lawsuit is outright racism and genocide against the euro-american populace. we built this great country, and the turd colored losers want to ruin, well fuck them in their asses .
freedom of association and disassociation.
TheNewMusicNetwork 10 months ago
Look at all the bitter race-baiting liberals whining about a successful city! Friggin hilarious.
bigvoodoo 10 months ago
Georgia has more county divisions than any other State in the Union.This was not a move against Atlanta, it was a reaction to Fulton County. The State's Black Caucus has filed a suit against several cities outside Atlanta. They are using the "race card" for purely financial reasons. If you look at these areas today you will see black, white and latinos living in all of these areas. The issue is about getting services for taxes paid in- NOT - keeping money out of Atlanta.
354ever 10 months ago
Most of Michigan Cities are incorporated now look at Detroit. Hmmmmm
bryanguy1 10 months ago
this is what a city can be, when you sever yourself from all the leeches & lowlifes in da 'hood.. the bad news is, wherever productive self-sufficient people migrate to, the leeches eventually follow & proceed to drain all the resources, ruin the schools, neighborhoods, etc.
GeorgeWashingtonX 10 months ago 2
andy Springs now has 100,000 people and is 80% white. Atlanta is only 36% white.
PastorRush1977 10 months ago
People in Sandy Springs commute into Atlanta to work.
And now, they avoid paying taxes to Atlanta. The "public-private partnership" has little to do with Sandy Springs' financial success. This is just rich people hoarding their money.
And when Atlanta crumbles, they'll all lose their jobs and have to move somewhere else.
prophetmargin 10 months ago
@prophetmargin They don't avoid paying taxes to Atl. They keep Atl. going. Their rich for a reason, they are intelligent, also people in Marietta, Kennesaw, and Alpharetta, etc etc commute to Atl to work. Sandy Springs gets criticized because it is 80 % white.
PastorRush1977 10 months ago 9
@prophetmargin c'mon.. Atlanta has already crumbled, that's why cities like Sandy Springs are given life. For generations, people lived in the cities where they worked.. but since the era of welfare & public housing.. its no longer safe or sane to raise a family in urban areas. Schools in LA that were nice back in the day, are now wrapped up in barbed wire, the surrounding areas are covered in graffiti & kids barely speak English, why would productive ppl wanna stay in these toilets, grow up.
GeorgeWashingtonX 10 months ago 3
@prophetmargin At least they are not dumping their money into the entitlements system and when Atlanta crumbles, as you say, they will have the means and initiative to move somewhere else.
Parabellumklr 10 months ago 3
As a dyed in the wool liberal, I believe strongly that both libertarianism and communism CAN WORK FINE in a small town or kibbutz. Keep it small and local and you can make ANY kind of economic/social philosophy work out. Try doing this on a nation of 300 million and I do not believe it would work. Go back to the Article of Confederation, maybe....but be realistic...that ain't gonna happen on a national scale.
ejcrist 10 months ago
'Sandy springs outsourced everything', 'Sandy Springs decided'
Only individuals act, a city can not outsource or decide, it does not exist in reality. You have a group of people who tax others and provide some services for their subjects. They claim to serve when they in fact rule. But at least it'better than gvt employees (extortionists) providing the services themselves. It would be better still not to provide any service through extortion.
modelmark 10 months ago
American Third Position Party! Tired of leftists and Neocons? Tired of people using words? like racists and anti semite to try to silence their opponents? Tired of affirmative action? Tired of spending billions on upholding a overseas military empire? Tired of the? illegal alien invasion of the USA?
Look no further than at the American Third Position Party! Take a look at their homepage at american3p . org and take a look at their videos here on youtube.
The American Third Position Party
Lavard14 10 months ago
It is a well-known fact that the wealthiest people in this nation pay nearly all the taxes. Its never a bad thing to have upper class communities as they are whats keeping poorer (and somehow putting tax returns into people who paid no taxes pockets) communities (and sadly casinos) operating.
SeanP7195 10 months ago
Also, this is just like any other well-to-do "burb" in America. Only thing is is that they broke off from Atlanta. While most already had their own incorporation. For instance, Gross Pointe in Suburban Detroit. The taxes people in Groos Pointe and I assume Sandy Springs is what allows failure big cities like Atlanta, to keep overpaying for services and employees. Its not the other way around as mxcote is presenting it.
SeanP7195 10 months ago 3
its funny how no one mentions why it costs so much to run a government. people pocket the money from the top down. its not fuckin rocket surgery. dont expect this to happen in most places.
34t34tgf 10 months ago
@Nopartyforme82 Yep, cause ALL black people are lowlifes. Only white folks have the ability to build and create. haha.
toomuch4em 10 months ago
Whites only. The rest of you genetic failures keep out.
FoxtrotUniform23 10 months ago
@Nopartyforme82 They were sued by the caucus because they are afraid that cities like these with overpower non white voters in those districts.
toomuch4em 10 months ago
What fantastic and very impressive story and if more of this type of modern model to operate governments were in place cities, states and the Fed government would not be facing draconian cuts in public services and raising taxes.
vernadah 10 months ago 2
Awesome!
numba1stunna4269 10 months ago
AS of 4/14/11 23 union people disliked this inspirational story.
gbillman43 10 months ago
I work for a city and definitely support outsourcing when it makes sense/works well. But it also seems that you have to guard against an "inmates running the asylum" situation, where outside contractors run the show with zero accountability
johnmharding115 10 months ago
@johnmharding115 How can you have zero accountability with outside contractors? Either they live up to the terms of the contract or they are fired.
gbillman43 10 months ago 2
@gbillman43 Not all contracts--nor contractors--are created equal. Some contracts can be very hard to get out of. This is especially the case if the contractor/vendor has powerful lawyers on their side and threatens to sue at the first hint of termination talk. Further, if they do end up suing, it gives the town a black eye and makes it difficult to attract other vendors. Not necessarily disagreeing in theory, but it's not so simple
johnmharding115 10 months ago
@johnmharding115
gbillman43 10 months ago
My mother lives in one of these new cities that have been formed in fulton county, and just so you'll know, the taxes went up because not only are they still paying the same county tax rate to fulton county but now they also have to pay a city tax.....
AwohaliSagwu 10 months ago
Porsche of N.A., UPS, Wendy's, Rubbermaid and many other Fortune 500 companies are located here, which is one reason why Sandy Springs broke off from Atlanta - to keep the tax base for themselves.
mxcote 10 months ago
@mxcote You say that like it's a bad thing, or shady in some way. Well, I'm wondering, why SHOULD the taxes from First-World white genius and productivity go a bunch of backward Fourth-world Africans just because Jews brought them to our land in their slave ships for the gentrified classes in the Western Hemisphere 400 years ago? The superior beings of White Humanity turned into tax slaves to subsidize the survival of inferior, nearly useless Black Humanity is what makes no sense. LOL
jthomas12793 10 months ago
@mxcote yes but you're just not getting it. It's far more appealing to be overly simplistic in presentation of city model than use those darned "facts". Clearly every city across the USA has their own UPS or other well-run company, and can therefore change city planning on a dime with great results.
skamakozi 10 months ago
@skamakozi I argue (as a qualified city planner) that this video is far too simplistic, and that once one adds a layer of basic demographics, a clearer picture arises. The video doesn't show it's 93% white, extremely rich, and socially closed. Atlanta lost a portion of it's county to a rich, white faction that 1) hypocritically depends on external taxes to supply its services and 2) keeps a disproportionately high level of taxes from businesses that existed post facto it's 2005 incorporation.
mxcote 10 months ago
@mxcote So basically what you are saying is....because someone no longer has to have their hard earned money taken from them and givin to some gangbangers food stamp account they are hypocrites?
SeanP7195 10 months ago
@SeanP7195 No. The city's services (police, fire, housing, sewer, water, electric, and street, park and school maintenance, etc) are paid for in large part by Fulton County, Georgia state, and Federal tax payers and NOT 100% by Sandy Springs taxpayers as this video alludes. The city is deeply dependent on other people's "hard earned money." Google: sandy springs ga capital program filetype:pdf
mxcote 10 months ago
@mxcote But aren't they paying for all those services in high taxation? I'm not sure how their school maintencance, sewer and water is being paid for by "Federal taxes". Is it anything like in Detroit, where the water treatment and sewage facilities are in Detroit and therefore operated (poorly) by Detroit and they force all the surrounding communities to use them at no other choice and the taxation of them increases yearly to cover for ineptness and waste.
SeanP7195 10 months ago
@mxcote Can't you make this same argument about any copmmunity large or small int he entire nation? Are you telling me Atlanta is not dependent on Federal monies? Are you stating that the state taxes (acquired mainly in part by successful corporations and high wage earners) is not the life blood which keeps Atlanta moving? Clearly you aren't this naive.
SeanP7195 10 months ago
@SeanP7195 Thanks for the dialog. Sandy Springs is presenting itself as a self-contained government. This is demonstrably not true. As we can see from the youtube comments, people believe Sandy Springs is some sort of Randian Utopia of self-reliance, completely independent of outside sources of tax revenues. All untrue. And it seems you and I agree on this. :D As for "federal taxes" I was just referring to the standard programs: CDBG, FEMA, HS, and transportation outlays, grants and assistance.
mxcote 10 months ago
Services (water, gas, roads) are provided by Fulton County taxpayers.
mxcote 10 months ago
1 Greenwich, Connecticut
2 Newport Beach, California
3 Bethesda, Maryland
4 Palo Alto, California
5 Newton, Massachusetts
6 Boca Raton, Florida
7 Sandy Springs, Georgia
8 West Bloomfield Township, Michigan
9 Cupertino, California
10 Brookline, Massachusetts
mxcote 10 months ago
Some idiots have filed a racist lawsuit against this city and others like it, mainly because they are "super-majority white" communities. The residents of these cities seek proper representation as they did not see their hard earned money, taken through taxes by the county, being appropriately apportioned. They are against something our founding father's called "taxation without representation". Some black non-residents are seeking the taxes of the city residents for their use and benefit.
isaias1776 10 months ago 3
This is brilliant. THIS is the ingenuity of the American Spirit. THIS is not something that government can do. It takes PEOPLE working at the local level to do this. Washington could learn a thing or two by visiting this city. Bravo!!
1family4me 10 months ago 45
@1family4me yes, isn't it wonderful when wealthy people band together to keep their money all in the same place and keep the darkies out? wow so great, and great for the country too!!
bernie4366 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@bernie4366 it is great that they don't have to worry about a nigger robbing them ..hope a nigger slits your liberal throat ...
Unkraut1960 10 months ago
@bernie4366 That is the most ignorant thing I've heard today. They are from the South so they MUST be racist right? Pathetic.
1family4me 10 months ago
@1family4me Yep, the T party slash conservative movement is fueled primarily by racism and fear. You know it, I know it, everybody knows it. Would be refreshing if more of you had the guts to just come out and say it, although to conservative credit the racism is pretty much out in the open on youtube, if not on television. Bigoted, fearful, ugly stupid people too damn dumb to realize how dumb you are. What a world you must live in, I pity you.
bernie4366 10 months ago
@bernie4366 LOL! So then Black Conservatives are what? Self racists? LMAO!! How ignorant. "I don't like you or agree with you so you must be a racist." Do yourself