John D Lee Question Resolved on First Day of Attack. Facts Pertaining to the Day

[Jz81650]

As for PC we lost that and many more of rights with that so called " Patriot Act".

[Jz81650]

As PC we lost a

[Jz81650]

@IExposeMormonism so your point is that BY created the environment for MMM to happen? That point I can see but you can't blame BY or the LDS church for CHOICES others made. Which by the way they made without counseling BY. BY issued a letter that wasn't received until the 12th which made it clear to help.

[IExposeMormonism]

@Jz81650 D Hintington's diary quoting B.Y. "giving" the Indians the cattle belonging to other people. Non Mormon people. And James Gemmel witness to B.Y. statement "I would wipe them out". Plus the absurd CYA ride of fat boy Haslam shows Mormons felt they had to ask B.Y. permission NOT to kill the women and children. Plus no one waited for the return note. Are you aware that in Mormonism Religious Rank trumps military rank even in war? The plot get black fast.

[Jz81650]

If there was a time for BY to interfere with a wagon train it would have been then. They went on CA and reported it to the US Goverment which started the investigation. Your point doesn't hold water in my opinion. If what your saying was true the Tanner-Matthews train should have been wiped out to.

[IExposeMormonism]

@Jz81650 Why should B.Y have to issue orders not to murder emigrants? The Tanner Mathews train were Mormons traveling to San Bernadino.Non Mormons traveled with them. All traveling thru say no bodies were buried. Only Mormons claim to have buried them but No one saw buried bodies. The train behind the Fanchers were from Missouri, the Dukes train. They lost their cattle to Jake Hamblin and his friends. Some men were wounded. Later Dukes was able to reclaim about 40 head.

[Jz81650]

And If BY and the Mormons were out to get wagon trains why was the Tanner-Matthews train allowed to follow the EXACT wagon trail that lead them directly to the MMM? They even reported seeing the bodies of the Fancher train unburied? It docent make since. They passed through MMM on the evening of Sep 12th. The day after.

[Jz81650]

Also BY was telling the Indians that if they scattered the cattle that they could keep them. Part of this was to prepare for the Utah War. The Paiutes were allies the the Mormons. They considered the US Army and the US Goverment as a "common" enemy. The point I am trying to make is that BY was telling the Paiutes how to deal with the US Army, not the Fancher party or another wagon train.

[IExposeMormonism]

@Jz81650 The Indians murdered emigrants for their cattle on the southern route. Only Mormons,attacked the military, not Indians. No Indians were with the USA Military. The only way Indians or Mormons dressed as Indians would get cattle is by stealing them. To steal them obviously implies they are property. Property of the people herding them. To steal them then implies attacking the owners to accomplish the goal of theft. B.Y. understood that. It's obvious.

[IExposeMormonism]

@IExposeMormonism The lack of military force has been a source of controversy. It's the oddest "war" that never was. Further,complete immunity for treason and other crimes like the MMM was granted by Pres Buchanon. Further,when Judge Cradlebaugh tried to investigate the MMM he needed a military escort. This was Removed because of Posse Comitatus. You'll have to research PC. After 911-01 we lost Posse Comitatus and Habius Corpus under the Pariot Act and NDAA. Did you know that?

[Jz81650]

@IExposeMormonism I would like to know where you have gotten that information? Also what TRIBES of Indians are you referring to? And if the Mormons attacked military trains why wouldn't the US Goverment continue with there all out "war" that BY was preparing for?

[IExposeMormonism]

@Jz81650 To see how Lot Smith, Pulsipher and others successfully attacked the military wagons and not the soldiers buy books on the Utah War. Not just Mormon books. "Camp Floyd", The Mormon Conflict, (Furness) The Utah Expedition by Jesse Gove 1928, Documentary Account of the Utah Expedition, Hafen, 1958. Those 4 will get you up to speed. Tribes include Cheyennes, Arapahoe, Utes, Pawnee Shoshone around Ft Bridger. I don't know why the All Out War didn't occur. Neither do the soldiers!

[Jz81650]

Someone made a good point that why would BY be concerned by a wagon train when 2500 US Army soldiers were coming to Utah and were already in N. Wyoming.

[Jz81650]

Correction, clearing and scattering cattle on the trail before the Army was a tactic used with success. This is what BY was referring to when talks about scattering the cattle.

[Jz81650]

I looked into this diary and some other statements made by scholars and it could be said that what you used is taken out of context. There is evidence within other sources that show that BY was referring to driving of the cattle of the US Army from the south route meaning Lander Wy pass. Remember the week up to the massacre BY received word that the US Army had stopped and was going to hold up at Ft Laramie. Expose all points and then make a argument. I for once would like to see a honest opini

[IExposeMormonism]

@Jz81650 The Indians did not attack the military. Most of the Indians around Ft Bridger and Laramie wanted to attack the Mormons. But the Army wasn't there to attack, just to install the bureaucrats and the military post, as the USA was doing in Texas, etc. The Mormons did attack the military trains themselves, burning them,but not attacking the soldiers. As Per B.Y. orders given to D Wells. The Indians did attack trains on the southern route where Dukes, Fancher, etc traveled.

[Jz81650]

It's a good question and I have not heard this before. I will look into it. I would like to also add that the two sources you have posted here are not written by Lee. They come from his attorney who wrote them for money. Some of the so called facts are widely known to be false.

[Jz81650]

I would like to add that up to the very last moment before Lee was executed he declared that Brigham Young had nothing to do with anything that happened that day. I believe that there a lot assumptions that the LDS church had executed the plan against the Fancher wagon train.

[Jz81650]

Massacre at Mountain Meadows. It cleared up a lot for me. It shows that men who happen to be Mormons made bad choices and committed horrible murders. Totally against what the Church had counseled in what to do in these situations.

[IExposeMormonism]

@Jz81650 The comment that I received on my channel mentions Brigham Young. Dimick Huntington's diary quotes B.Y. saying he gave all the emigrant cattle to the Indians. This obviously has an effect on the owners of those cattle, be it Fancher, Duke, etc. James Gemmel, a devote polygamous Mormon claims he was in the room when Hamblin was told by B. y. "I would wipe them out". referring to the Fancher train. But G.A. Smith was sent south just prior to the train heading south....Con't

[IExposeMormonism]

@IExposeMormonism GA Smith traveled in Front of the train said lies concerning them. I have a list of over 25 Mormons who traveled with the train. 300 miles SLC to MMM. Some Mormons traveled days with them. But only those who murdered them have anything bad to say. And that contradicts what the 15-20 other non Murderers as they traveled with them. No one has made much of that fact.. This was carefully crafted. How could Mormons travel w/ the train if they were violent?

[Jz81650]

I think you should study the facts. Read Masa

[Gods1truechurchmyass]

Excellent! Very well documented.

[candyykisses420]

john d lee is my great great great grandpa

[IExposeMormonism]

@candyykisses420 Tell me more! I need info. I just bought the 1846-47 and 1859 diaries. I have his confession,1877. A typed copy of the Mormon Battalion Mission 1846 Aug-Nov, typed by Manetta Henrie herself, Klingensmiths confession by Backus, signed. 2 vol of The Diaries of JDL, 1848-76 and dozens of other books and such related to MMM. Right now I'm preparing a list of known Mormons who traveled with the wagons. At least 20. JDL may have..And he probably knew Fancher from the Black Hawk war

[IExposeMormonism]

@IExposeMormonism And I just bought a 1970 Treasure Magazine with a story on JD Lee's mine in the Grand Canyon which supposedly has not been found. It may be that Josiah Gibbs "Kawhich's Gold Mine" is based on Lee. Gibbs shows pictures of caves with Mormons in it and huge stalactites and S'mites. Used for secret polygamy ceremonies! I posted it, too.

[mariarox93]

Lol! John D Lee was my great great great grandfather :P

[IExposeMormonism]

@mariarox93 I've' met a few people who had interesting connections to MMM. A Lorenzo Snow GGGgs has his diaries.is one, some others. I just now acquired a typed copy of the Carleton report, out of SLC, dated 1902. Not sure what to make of it but I should have it up on YT Sunday.He was the general sent to clean up the mess that was still lying on the ground in 1859. Seems the Mormons wanted to make a point with the remains. He wasn't very amused by what he saw.I'll be back later today, gotta go

[dons123111]

@mariarox93 he was my great great grandad

[dons123111]

IExpose, did your wife f a mormon bishop, is that why you are pissed off?

[IExposeMormonism]

@dons123111 No, donny, I was never a MoJoe. But that would piss me off. I know that Morgs understand that all their superiors have a claim on all their underlings life.

[dons123111]

@IExposeMormonism Sounds like you are talking about the IRS. Mormons have always been able to opt out of the system. They don't use force like the state. It's all voluntary.



[IExposeMormonism]

@dons123111 Don't use force?? Tell that to Joe, Briggy, Taylor and the other maniacal colluding Hierarchy pervs. And just how to Mormon opt out of the system?

[dons123111]

@IExposeMormonism Since the beginning of the Mormon church people have quit and left peacefully. Oliver Cowdery, Sidney Rigdon, the Whitmers, notable names powerful leaders. They were never forced to stay. Once they got to Utah it was the same. It was never like a state, where people are coerced into taxes, and service. Mormons had voluntary militias, voluntary charity, voluntary schools, and voluntary marriage. John D Lee had at least 8 wives divorce him all left voluntarily and unharmed.

[IExposeMormonism]

@dons123111 Oh? I have some books in front of me, you might want to check them out. One is " A collection of facts relative to the course taken by S.R." Sid had to leave under adverse conditions. And David Whitmere, "An Address to all believers in Christ". And Wild Bill Hickman's " Brigham's Destroying Angel". None of those books would confirm your statement. Perhaps you'd like some quotes? I have already posted some, I could post some more. Cowdery had to flee Nauvoo. Didn't you know that?

[dons123111]

@IExposeMormonism You are absolutely incorrect, There was such as thing as destroying angels, but they were set against anti mormons, not mormons who opted out. They would have came after you. Everyone fled Nauvoo, it was burnt to the ground. Cowdery moved from Nauvoo after he became disallusioned with the church. He didn't flee...flee means a desperate escape. He packed his wagons and the Mormons said bye bye..fat head.

[IExposeMormonism]

@dons123111 You need to study up. Cowdery Fled. He was given no choice. Google it. Opting out of the Endowment Ceremony wasn't much of an option. The Hierarchy would have you devoured. I've posted a few peoples experience's. Yes, in the opening you were given a choice to opt out. But it wasn't much of a choice. the only way you left Utah was empty, nothing. no family. You had to leave it all. And good luck with that. When the RR came through was the beginning of change. RN Baskin helped.

[IExposeMormonism]

@dons123111 And a voluntary militia?? Are you joking? Everyone at the Mountain Meadows Massacre were under a Compulsion. all 55-60 murderers were under the endowment&oaths to "avenge the blood of the prophets". Those objecting to the plan, like L. Morrill, had to sleep outside for months, out of fear for their life. Another was chained to a wagon wheel at the MMM scene for objecting.Then when Briggy formed a militia to deal with the US army, Morgs were compelled to give horses, etc Your welcome

[dons123111]

@IExposeMormonism No, they weren't under compulsion. The endowments are a voluntary excommunication of death should you decide to divulge what things you learned in the temple. Those objecting did it at the risk of ostracization. They would be better off to opt out, then to refuse church orders and the still be in good standing with the church. Many Mormons opted out before and after the MMM, including the entire Reorganized church and Emma Smith, first wife of Josephe Smith. You are confused.

[calivideoguy]

Nice video, 5 Stars!

It was 50 miles not 12, John Dee Lee was wrong.

[GiftoAll]

The approval for the attack came from a god made by men or an angel that enjoyed watching men commit adultery.

[IExposeMormonism]

It's interesting how adultery can lead to mass murder. Joseph Smith believed he could legitimatize adultery by having a "revelation" redefining adultery as Polygamy. God Sees The Heart. Having Visions is very dangerous. Especially when they (angels) encourage mass murder for "getting". Mormonism is a "getting" religion. You "get Perfected" You "get a wife", You "get to become gods". Too much getting. Look at what its Got them: The truth, if they can bear it

[IExposeMormonism]

CP9. You cant spell and your ideas are not connected in your two sentences. think about it. type in something coherent. you can use more than 500 glyphs if need be. I think you need be

[Fresna29]

@IExposeMormonism ..You really worked hard on this didn't you.?

[IExposeMormonism]

@Fresna29 Even the really bad videos are time consuming. 10 minutes can take all day. That's why I put up a cat video, etc: Just shoot and post. it's tuff under my current conditions. But William Jarman, 1884 is coming up someday: "USA in Hell For US, U.ncle S.ams A.bcess, Where polygamy and Incest are Practiced Under the All Seeing Eye...." and on it goes, gotta be a record long title. He got upset when he saw his grave in his back yard: OP Rockwell befriended him and warned him of it!

[Fresna29]

@IExposeMormonism I guess it would be time consuming but is it worth all your time.? The videos are interesting and all but do you find this to be rewarding in any way.Just a Question.?

[IExposeMormonism]

@Fresna29 If it helps one person escape the Mormon Hierarchy it's worth it. The more I read the more amazed and appalled I am. They even had Mormons and Indians stationed along the Humboldt Rv where, if you gave the wrong words to a certain question or didn't respond to a gesture the right way, you became fair game. They instructed the Indians in this and it is difficult to estimate the numbers killed but certainly over 100. It went on for years, like 1847-c.1860 with the arrival of US troops

[Lookup2Wakeup]

Good history lesson, thanks for posting.

[IExposeMormonism]

I think I resolved it. I cant find anyone who noticed this or addressed it.