@2017Downtown "Only 3 of the 10 commandments made it into our laws and Constitution."
Are you sure even 3 of the 10 made into our laws?
I think it would be more accurate to say that our laws happen to coincide with 3 of the 10 commandments, rather than attribute a biblical source for laws that are ubiquitous. They are in fact so common that equivalents to these laws can be found in nearly every legal system, including those that are founded on non-Christian religions.
Seperation of church and state means keep them apart, it doesn't act as a one way block that keep the state out of churches but lets churches go all Dominionisim on us all.
Advocates of separation of church and state agree that there should be no official state position on the existence or non-existence of god, or any particular religion. So in this regards you are entirely in agreement with all of those atheists out there, like myself, who are advocating for separation of church and state. Common ground!
@iridescentsquids "should be no official state position on the existence or non-existence of god". Well that is not fair. Atheists are not even the 3% of the population.
The goverment should be theist not religious. But strange things happens these days. Scientists, celebrities, rock stars, millionaires are atheists. Most influential people are atheists. We are not dumb kids. THIS IS A SATANIC AGENDA, i dont believe in coincidences. If the stupid Satan exist, then our GOD also exist
@trifulquita15 "The goverment should be theist not religious"
Why not just leave the government out of it? It's bad for politics AND religion when they mix. And even if government is "theist", what kind of theism? Are you saying the government should officially endorse the view that ALL god concepts are true? Some? One? You see where I'm going with this.
By the way, self-identified atheists make up around about 12% of the U.S. population. But that's not relevant. It's a constitutional issue.
The First Amendment provides that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. This was interpreted as the separation of church and state in The Reynolds V. U.S. case in the late 1800's. How can you say it's not in the Constitution?
@dougmoerhoffman That was a ridiculous argument. Look at the amount of money the Mormon church donated to Proposition 8 in California. churches should lose their tax exempt status if they contribute to a political candidate or Political Action Committee or political group. Every other cult handles its own finances with government help.
ppl..............Secularism is not Atheism, its freedom of religion or from religion and just not allowing government policies based of a religious belief. lol those right wingers and islamic jihadists saying "down with secularism" are on the same team
Atheism has been bullying the church long enough. They don't realize that if they continue to push us who are clergy and those of us who believe there is a God, they will eventually unleash the wrath of the religious upon them. We have left them alone because we respect their freedom to not believe. But they just continue to disrespect us. If they think God does not exist then what are they so threatened about? It they think we're stupid...so be it. Respect our rights.
Are you sure you're not mixing up 'separation of church and state' or 'freedom of speech' with bullying/your rights being violated? How have your rights been violated, exactly?
Do you mean that atheists should 'sit down and shut up' when public officials violate separation of church and state, like the judge in texas who tried to hang the 10 commandments in his courtroom? What do you mean by "bullying?"
Ug..Once again please look up "atheism" in 2-3 dictionaries. Read definitions. Compare to your definitions. "disbelief" is not the same thing as believing here is no god. Either way you're right, it's not a religion.
A lot of people are getting hung up on whether Atheism is a religion or not; but that really isn't necessary for the video's point. The seperation of church and state simply means that the government has no business telling you what you should believe. The point the video is making is that using government to eliminate religion would mean that the government is telling you what you should believe (in this case that religion is false), which would violate the separation of church and state.
@Satarack "government to eliminate religion would mean that the government is telling you what you should believe (in this case that religion is false),"
IF the government did hang atheist manifestos in place of the 10 commandments I would agree, but obviously there is nothing even remotely similar to that happening. Refraining from endorsing ANY particular religious position over any other is entirely, 100% different then proactively endorsing the specific position that religion is false.
You cannot claim that American Law is based on Christian ideals because every single Christian ideal was taken from an older religion or culture. Many ideals appear to come to all cultures most of the time (the killing one is a good example). You'll find that very few cultures support the killing of their own people to the point where the population removes itself from the planet. You seem to not understand much of what you are discussing.
Atheism is a disbelief in a deity. That's where it starts and that's where it ends.
Religion is a set of moral standards and beliefs that form the template for the governance of its believers' lives.
Would you call creationism a religion? Would you call the disbelief in leprechauns a religion? No, but I wouldn't put it past you. These are singular, NSA beliefs. The unwarranted smugness of this channel as it promulgates misinformation is sickening. You're not half as smart as you think you are.
@Idolsofwood well most people would call Christianity a religion. But I think of it as a relationship with god that has morals that you live by. Atheism is the same thing but with a lack of believing in a higher power. There are many kinds of Christians just like there are many kinds of atheists. You’re talking about loose belief systems that are subject to debate. He was expressing his opinion on what they mean. He was also trying to be informative not "Smart".
@ninjaturtletyke55555 Try split some more hairs. What you've described is exactly what a religion is, quite an elementary issue with your argument, geez. It's like saying "many people believe a hot dog is a food, but I believe it's just a sausage in bread." There's no "opinion" on matters of fact. You can't debate when factually wrong. And evidently, the tone that this misinformation is spread with (the punchlines, the dispositions, the one-liners) is meant to be witty; actually, it's utter poo.
@Idolsofwood most people will sell their opinions with facts. Politics do it all the time. He just try’s to make light of controversial issues. But anyway when you try to put a definition to religion some people think of a belief system that you must follow religiously. Others may say it’s just what you believe in. it can be very loosely defined. i don’t think atheism is a religion but by his definition it is and I don’t see what’s wrong with having an opinion.
@ninjaturtletyke55555 There's nothing wrong with having an opinion, what a banal thing to say. There is, however, something very wrong with having an opinion that is ridiculous and stupid. You're entitled to it, but I'm also entitled to tell you you're a dickhead. Which this guy is. I'm still trying to work out the relevance of your first sentence which I'm fairly sure means absolutely nothing. You cannot have an opinion on the meaning of a bloody word, just stop trying.
@Idolsofwood example: pride: a word people see as a bad thing because you refuse to let go of whatever it is that may not be important in the long run. Other common definition: Something that you did that was great and you are proud of yourself for it. Words can be molded to mean just the opposite of what people mean. That’s why it’s impossible to not contradict yourself because words can have so much meaning and the word religion is no exception. That’s what I meant.
Honestly, I don't see evidence that he is trying to be informative in any objective sense. I see much more evidence, especially if we consider these videos as a collection, that he is trying to create the impression that facts conform to his opinions/agenda. He uses many fallacious techniques to achieve this, including misrepresenting facts...maybe even lying at a times. I can provide specifics if interested.
@iridescentsquids Most of his videos he talks about facts and what most people he has interacted with say then tells you his opinion. Of Corse he is going to have an opinion on a controversial subject. All people try to sell their opinions with facts they know because that is the only real way to do it. There is no such thing as no bias. Many statistics disagree with each other. Honestly statistics and facts very so much that it is impossible to know when someone is lying.
No, I mean he outright lies, or makes huge factual errors. Most of the factual errors he makes are very very easy to fact-check, with little effort or time, suggesting to me he either put almost no effort into making sure he had his facts was right, or he decided it served his purpose better to simply tell lies.
I have NO PROBLEM with him expressing his opinion. Just don't think he has to lie in the process.
And the reason I say he lies is important, as it's not a accusation I take lightly. I understand it's virtually impossible to know somebody's intent.
I include intellectual dishonesty within the spectrum of lies. What he is doing is deceptive + dishonest.
Some of his errors/lies are too big to be just mistakes. In both his Darwin video and Scientific method video, he gets 8th grade level science entirely backward just to support his bias. No excuse for it.
@iridescentsquids I don’t see where he is being dishonest on purpose though. All he did was explain how our country was founded on some Christian ideals but left freedom of religion. He then made a joke on how we have no culture. Then he explained how you could accidently make government more corrupt by turning religious groups into lobby groups. Please explain.
@ninjaturtletyke55555@ninjaturtletyke55555 You mean in this particular video? 3:00 he say's that people are eager to get rid of the 10 commandments in courtrooms "because they disagree with what it says". Either this is a sloppy explanation of the separation of church and state ruling, or a blatant misrepresentation of the position of nearly all proponents of the concept, including the ACLU. They state their position very clearly. Somehow he has gotten it entirely wrong. How did he manage that?
@ninjaturtletyke55555 (continued 1) He then goes on to compare separation of church and state positions on the 10 commandments in courtrooms to the Taliban destroying Buddhist sculptures, so if there was any doubt he is misrepresenting the sep of church and state position he's erased it here.
@ninjaturtletyke55555 (continued 2) Going backward for second, his premise that our country's laws are founded on religious principles is hugely debatable. (he starts this argument around 2:45). What is his evidence for this? He has none. He's simply stating it as if it's a fact. Which he has a right to do...but it's an example of presenting a personal opinion as if it were a fact, which he then uses as evidence for the claims that follow. Not exactly a lie, but misinformation of sorts.
@ninjaturtletyke55555 (continued 3) at 3:36 I agree with his opinion regarding right to vote however we want to, including for religious reasons. And no factual errors...until he starts talking about atheism as a religion. That's either a semantic mistake on his part (by using incorrect definitions of either "atheism" or "religion") or simply an error in logic. But his overall point about voting rights allowing for religious reasoning is consistent with our constitution. He's right about that.
@ninjaturtletyke55555 (continued 4) So his4:00 point about atheism being a religion is not correct either semantically, definitionally, or logically. I mean, he gets the basic definition of atheism wrong by saying it's a "belief that there is no god". But I don't believe this is really a lie so much as an error in judgement or lack of understanding, as I pointed out. It's in fact a very common error that a lot of people make.
@ninjaturtletyke55555 (continued 5) In summary he makes some pretty bad mistakes in this video, and what I would consider one serious mistake that MAY constitute either a lie or a serious misunderstanding (which just happens to back up his argument, so is suspicious), and that's the mistake about the separation of church and state position. Overall this video has far fewer factual errors than his other videos, of which I was mostly referring when I said that he's dishonest.
@iridescentsquids Ok that seems pretty logical to me. I still think that if take all the conroversy out of the word religion and look at it as a word that it can mean different things to different people. because differences in beliefs is what makes people disaproove of each other. athiesm brings out that quality just like any other belief. thats why his definitions and explainations didint bother me. I only heard the point he was trying to get accross. thanks for explaining.
You have a point, but you can't discount all of the atheists who don't proclaim any particular belief...who simply don't believe in theist claims and make no specific positive assertions. That's a huge part of the atheist population (maybe a majority). So to lump them all together as a religion can't be right. SOME atheists share beliefs, but very few. Its factually inaccurate to say they share the same beliefs.
@Idolsofwood Kaufman v McCautry, a Federal court ruled that atheism comprises a religion in order to protect it on the same grounds as other religions. In saying that you lack a belief in god(s), you have effectively made a decision to follow a religion of no god(s). And his point that the state (i.e. government) is not bound to be devoid of any and all religious influence is absolutely correct. The language of the First Amendment merely prevents an established religion or prohibiting religion.
@rascalrabbyt The nice way of saying this is: you're full of shit. Legal terms function as matters of convenience. The court ruled that way as a matter of free speech protection, it's a tedious discussion that is totally irrelevant to this one. Let's not be utter morons, please. It's impossible even to begin believing that a single disbelief is equal to a litany of morals, teachings, rules, propositions, suppositions, and claims. There is no parallel at all, you're insulting yourself by trying.
@Idolsofwood It is the assertion that no god(s) exist, which cannot be deductively proven. Thus, it must fall under a religious philosophy with a belief; it also arguably has 5 of N. Smart's 7 traits.
@rascalrabbyt Oh, right, so I cannot prove that there is not an omniscient and omnipotent demi-god unicorn under my bed and I don't believe there is, and because it comprises a religious element and can't be deductively proven, Anti-Unicorn Nether Matressism is also a religion.
Furthermore, atheists don't have to "prove". The religious are making the claim to the existence of a god. There is no evidence for a positive claim, so I will sit here with no belief sipping daiquiris until there is.
Religion = belief in a higher power that governs human life. Atheism = no higher power....how did he draw the conclusion that Atheism is a religion? Oh...ignorance...I get it.
Until it is empirically proven that there is no God, Atheism is a belief structure. And given it has very particular behaviors, calling it a Religion is not as inaccurate as Atheists would like to believe. Because Religion is a very specific human phenomena. And atheists, like all who participate in religion, have some similar traits.
Sorry, it's okay. I don't believe I know one way or the other. Therefore I am one who can say I have no religion. If you're stating an opinion as fact...religion.
@MaSTASoLIDUS "If you're stating an opinion as fact...religion."
And atheists don't, so...not a religion by your definition.
It might help to read a little about what exactly atheism is/is not. Otherwise you might be forming your position on a simple misconception.
Your first statement, for example, seems off. What do you mean 'belief structure?' Everything that a person believes and does not believe? In that case practically everything is a religion. That can't be right.
The wall of seperation was put into words by Jefferson because it was in a letter to a congregation who were afraid of being oppressed.
The fact that in the bill of rights establishes the prevention of the acknowledgement of religion by government and establishment. That carries the implications that no law, policy or practice can support religion.
Atheism is the lack of a religion, not a religion, maybe you could say radical anti-theism is a religion, but basic atheism is not. being an atheist just means i do not believe in a god, i don't follow any dogma, or hold any supernatural beliefs, kind of the opposite of religion. Radical anti-theism on the other hand could be considered a religion because that may require some set beliefs, such as the belief that religions are so harmful that they must be destroyed. But i digress.
@SecretSquaff You seem to know best what every atheist believes or does not believe. Why bother asking?
If you're truly interested in the definition of a word, the dictionary is a good place to start, but definitions differ from one to another. Most I have seen (nearly half at least) use the word disbelief.
More importantly, it is the position espoused by most Atheists
Until you learn to distinguish between rejecting a belief and asserting a negative you won't get it.
@SecretSquaff "SO the statement "God(any god) does not exist." is not a statement atheists believe in?"
Yes, it is. But again, for some reason you don't see the difference between rejecting a belief and positing a negative.
To make the above statement it is required that one not believe the opposite, but it is not required to believe the above statement in order to not believe the opposite. Follow? "I don't believe in XYZ (or any) concept of a god" is not the same as "God does not exist"
@iridescentsquids Someone who directly says "God is not real" is Athiest. Someone who says "I am not convinced b any arguments for God I've heard" is obviously Agnostic. Please research before you comment; you sound like an idiot.
@blackasnight333 " Please research before you comment; you sound like an idiot."
What's with all the know-it-alls around here?
You are, by the way, mistaken. Atheism refers to what you believe, agnosticism with what you know or think is knowable.
If I don't believe, I'm an atheist. It's that simple. If I don't believe, and believe I can't ever know with certainty, I'm an 'agnostic atheist'. If you are a theist and believe you can't know for sure you are an 'agnostic theist'.
@blackasnight333 Gnosticism/Agnosticism has to do with you know or think is knowable whereas atheism has to do with belief. Not being convinced = disbelief, or lack of belief. Same thing. An agnostic can still believe in god, just denies that one can have ultimate knowledge regarding the truth of the claim. Most agnostics are, however, skeptics at heart, and tend to disbelieve theist claims. Also faith and agnosticism tend to conflict.
@iridescentsquids "Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities." "Agnostic - A denial of knowledge about whether there is or is not a God. An agnostic insists that it is impossible to prove that there is no God and impossible to prove that there is one."
Atheism is the complete rejection of a higher power. Agnosticism is the uncertainty of there being a higher power.
Now stop trying to tell me what MY "religion" (as you call it) is.
@blackasnight333 "Now stop trying to tell me what MY "religion" (as you call it) is"
I didn't call anything a religion. I think you are mistakem.
I'd almost prefer to just let it drop, but you aren't actually representing the dictionary definitions in your statements that follow. Atheism = rejection of belief. Agnosticism is denial of knowledge. So... belief vs. knowledge. Two different aspects to the theistic debate, and not mutually exclusive as you imply that they are.
@iridescentsquids I pulled the definition of Agnostic from a dictionary. The other was from Wiki. They are both correct. You have already changed your argument several times, so there's no need to argue anymore.
Just remember that this was your first argument, which is incorrect:
"Anybody who does not believe in god is an atheist." "Does the person who says "I'm not convinced..." not believe in god? Yes, they don't believe in god. So they are atheists."
@blackasnight333 lol...but I didn't say I think the dictionary definitions are wrong...sigh...and I haven't changed my position at all. i think you just keep misunderstanding it. And you aren't properly applying the definitions you are providing!
The terms agnostic and atheist are NOT mutually exclusive. One deals with belief, the other knowledge. When somebody says "I'm not convinced..." they are talking about belief. (being convinced = believing). So it means to disbelieve, which = atheism.
The problem here is two-fold: 1) You don't understand my position. and 2) You don't understand the dictionary definitions (which you yourself provided)
I'm sorry. I know this is painful (is for me as well), but you're just not getting it. Sorry.
My position has never been inconsistent with the two definitions you provided.
I would agree with you that denial of knowledge is not atheism. That would be agnosticism. And agnosticism is not the same as atheism, as I've repeatedly said. But the two are not mutually exclusive, either, as I've also repeatedly said.
And "disbelief in god" is a frequent dictionary definition of atheism.
@blackasnight333 (cont) "Someone who says "I am not convinced b any arguments for God I've heard" is obviously Agnostic"
In other words, the use of the term "agnostic" here is just as appropriate as the use of the word atheist. Anybody who does not believe in god is an atheist. Agree? Does the person who says "I'm not convinced..." not believe in god? Yes, they don't believe in god. So they are atheists. In this case agnostic atheist, or soft atheist, or weak atheist. All terms for an atheist.
@Arteia If "Arteia" gets to decide what the definition of religion is, then I get to decide what the definition of "Arteia" is... but I won't cause I'm nice. ;] The definition of religion actually is "a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sect," and Atheism definitely meets those qualifications, even if your own personal preconceived opinion contradicts it.
By your own definition, if you can't name "specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices" that are common among all atheists it is not a religion. And you can't without getting the definition of atheism wrong.
Why is it important that you be able to call atheism a religion, anyways? Do you need to misrepresent every position you disagree with. (I'm referring to your misrepresentation of evolution in the other thread)
@iridescentsquids Here are the set of beliefs that Atheists hold to:Atheists fundamentally believe that there is no God, that there is no right or wrong, that every human being has the authority in and of himself to do whatever they want to,and that there is only the natural in existence.It is important to inform people that Atheism is a religion, because if they're not, they're believing a lie, and this lie leads to serious consequences (which I don't want anyone to endure.)
clearly you are operating under some incorrect definitions/understanding of what atheism is. If you're interested I'll let you know what it really is, but I get the feeling you don't really want to know.
@iridescentsquids If you believe there is right and wrong, what is the definition of evil, where does it come from, and why should it be avoided?Also why can't any human being do whatever they want to if there is no God?What is the limiting factor, and why should we obey it?Natural as defined by something tangible and physical.An example is love, feelings, ethical obligations (which you say you believe in, but you have not given evidence for its existence.)
@guardianewjedijoel "If you believe there is right and wrong, what is the definition of evil," Look at a dictionary: "Profoundly immoral and malevolent." It comes from immoral or malevolent behavior.
"why can't any human being do whatever they want to if there is no God?" Why would they? Fear of punishment is not the only motive to do good. Love, empathy, desire to be treated well and genuine desire to make other people happy...these qualities do not exist just because people fear punishment.
@guardianewjedijoel "An example is love, feelings, ethical obligations (which you say you believe in, but you have not given evidence for its existence.)"
These are examples of abstractions...concepts...and as such are real and natural in as much as any being that conceives of these things is natural. They do not have a physical presence, but that does not make them unnatural, or supernatural.
I very much believe that I experience love. But I don't believe love floats around the room.
@iridescentsquids You are saying that if you can conceive of something, then it must be natural.What are your premises to this conclusion?They are unnatural in the sense that you can't provide tangible evidence for their existence, you merely believe that they exist,(as you just admitted.)this concept is an example of how things can exist without physical evidence.What evidence can you provide for the existence of ethical obligations, since you have said you believe they exist.
@guardianewjedijoel "You are saying that if you can conceive of something, then it must be natural"
Yea...sure..the process of thinking and having ideas is perfectly natural. I don't see any reason to call it supernatural. Do you?
What would be unnatural is if I thought of something and it became real simply because I thought it, and without any physical connection between my mind and the natural world. But I know of no demonstrable instances of such occurrences. Do you?
@iridescentsquids I didn't say thinking and having ideas was supernatural, I said that IDEAS and abstract things such as love can be considered unnatural and not part of the physical world because you cannot provide tangible (touchable) physical evidence of their existence.Answer this question: What evidence can you provide for the existence of ethical obligations, since you have said you believe they exist.
@guardianewjedijoel By that definition, veganism is a religion, World of Warcraft is a religion, and politics is a religion.
The only thing common among all atheists is the disbelief in a god or gods. Agnosticism and atheism are not mutually exclusive, in fact most atheists are agnostic. But there is no practice that is agreed upon by all atheists, unless not doing something is considered a practice, in which case we reached a whole new level of ridiculousness.
@Arteia I didn't make the definition up, that is the dictionary definition.Anything that meets the qualifications of a definition, is the term that was defined, despite any preconceived bias or assumptions.There are many things that all atheists believe because there are many corollaries off of the single belief "there is no god," (which I have previously listed.)They all believe these things, not because of convention or popular vote, but rather they all agreed on the source argument.
@guardianewjedijoel for example if two people agreed that orange is yellow, then it would also be correct to say that they would believe purple is the compliment of what they claimed was orange. In the case of Atheism, if these subset of beliefs off of the statement "there is no god" are logical corollaries from the source belief, then yes, Atheism is a religion by the dictionary's definition (even if the dictionary's definition is not your definition.)
@guardianewjedijoel "In the case of Atheism, if these subset of beliefs off of the statement "there is no god""
Why is this so hard to understand? And why hold on so desperately to this obvious misunderstanding? Honestly, I just don't understand the point of your reasoning.
If somebody says they don't believe something, why isn't that good enough for you? Why do you have to interpret that to mean they have a religion? What's in it for you?
@guardianewjedijoel "They all believe these things, not because of convention or popular vote, but rather they all agreed on the source argument."
Again, if you care whether what you say is true or not, I would rethink what you're saying here. Whether you get your definition from dictionaries or atheists themselves, there is no core belief that unites all atheists.
This seems to be a theme with you...making stuff up to suit some kind of agenda. What's the agenda?
@lebeaubastion no, >> I << have no religion. i dont beleive or disbelieve in anything. i just dont care. im not atheist, christian, muslim, or neo paganist. in other words I HAVE NO RELIGION. atheism is the disbelief in a god or a belief that there is no god. therefore, as a belief, it not only IS a religion but it just shot its self in the foot.
@iridescentsquids then they are not atheist. like me THEY HAVE NO RELIGION. they dont believe or disbelieve. they just dont care. they have no religion. quit it with thee empty root. its annoying
If your going to peddle this dumb misconception that atheism is a religion, you've got to make it clear that you are only referring to atheists who believe that god does not exist, not to atheism in general.
That aside, you're using an idiosyncratic and largely useless definition of religion when you say any belief regarding the existence or non existence of god constitutes a "religion". By any reputable definition of "religion" that's simply incorrect.
@iridescentsquids dude, A god. not just god. A god (or more). or a belief in something. a strong beliefe that there is something else or nothing else in this case. something that you take as the way the world, life, and after life works. that is religion
@NopletiUnderwood " something that you take as the way the world, life, and after life works. that is religion"
Atheism doesn't have to explain or propose anything. It's just means "I don't believe this or that or any theist idea I've heard so far in my life" or "I'm not convinced"
Granted there's a lot of cultural baggage, but it's still just a descriptive term, NOT a religion.
Call yourself whatever you want. But in my opinion it's best not to misrepresent other's positions in the process.
The united states was not based on enlgihtened christian values! a good portion of the founding fathers were deists, get your 18th century history right!
I understand what you mean about becoming agnostic at the polls. But if you believe that everyone has the right to believe in their chosen religion, then you have to believe that your religious values shouldn't be forced on people that don't practice your religion. The point of laws are to help us live together. Not give you the right to hold your wife's hand as she dies, and then refused to allow the same thing to homosexual because of your religion.
@JElzMar "The point of laws are to help us live together. "
I hadn't thought of that. a great point...except that in theory constitutional rights are protected no matter how much voters wish to undermine those rights through popular votes. Again, in theory even if people were voting with a mind to remove the rights of others, in the long run they would not be able to. Prop 22 and prop 8 court rulings being some recent examples of constitutional rights trumping popular vote.
Holy crap! (No pun intended.) It's right here in the first amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." Yes, the exact words "separation of church and state" aren't in those documents. We paraphrased because it's a long statement and we talk about it a lot. A lot of us think this is important. It doesn't mean religion can't inspire legislation. It means religion can't trump the constitution.
He never said Christianity invented "thou shall not kill". He said "Thou shall not kill" made it into our laws because Christianity was the popular religion among 'our' founding fathers.
@SecretSquaff "He said "Thou shall not kill" made it into our laws because Christianity was the popular religion among 'our' founding fathers."
Which is ridiculous. Those words are not in the U.S Constitution let alone U.S laws. The 10th amendment lets states legislate such things, and our founding fathers were not plopping the 10 commandments into the constitution! To attribute the illegality of murder in U.S. laws to Christianity is just bizarre. The concept and law is ubiquitous.
@Sirafrican Not that everything he says is wrong. Most of what he says is conjecture and opinion, which is fine. But here are a few facts he got totally wrong that are very easy to confirm with some quick searches:
3:50 and 3:57 he insists adamantly that atheism 1. "a belief that there is no god" and 2. constitutes a religion. On point 1. just look up "atheism in the dictionary. Says "disbelief". Look up the definition of "disbelief". Means to withhold belief, NOT to believe the opposite.(cont)
@Sirafrican (cont) on point 2. is atheism a religion, this depends entirely upon your definition of religion. Again, look it up in the dictionary. Atheism is the disbelief in theistic concepts, not a belief in an of itself, so, sorry, does not confirm to the dictionary definition of religion, either. Of course, he probably has a broader definition of what constitutes a "religion", too. Not one you would find in a dictionary, I would bet.
@Sirafrican 3. I find his claim at 2:33 odd that the illegality of murder is a Christian thing. Murder's illegal in every culture, and such laws predate Christianity, so I think he's mixed up here as well.
4. at 3:03 he says people want to get rid of the 10 commandments in public buildings because they don't believe in what it says. Maybe some people do somewhere (lots of people out there), but this is a huge misrepresentation of the most popular reasons people oppose such displays (cont)
most people oppose these displays (usually NOT historic displays, but NEW displays being erected) because it can constitute a state endorsement of Christian laws over secular laws. This was the case in texas recently when a judge tried hanging the 10 commandments in court. It wasn't an issue about the history of our buildings, or about people not believing in the 10 commandments. It was a blatant violation of the principle of Sep of Church and State. Totally different. (cont)
I'll conclude by saying this is one of his more factually accurate videos, despite the many errors. You should check out his science topic vids. They are filled with horrible mistakes and factual inaccuracies...and some blatantly biased misrepresentations (particularly on issues regarding evolution...but he gets 8th grade level facts wrong in his "scientific method" video, too)
The best thing that could happen to churches to remove the tax exempt status, then they could do what ever they want to. Yes, atheism is a religion, you must believe that there is no God to be and atheist, and religion is based on belief.
@dbpx4 "you must believe that there is no God to be and atheist"
1. Look up "atheism" is a reputable dictionary. 2. Read definition 3. Think about whether that definition is consistent with your above statement, or the position of actual atheists you talk to.
"Disbelief" means to withhold belief, not necessarily believe there is no god.
You lost me at "atheism is a religion: the belief that there is no god". That's entirely incorrect. Doesn't invalidate the entire video, but it is an irritating misconception that pops up everywhere.
@Windysmoke He was trying to make a point. The point is you need just as much belief that there is no God as I need the same amount to believe that there is a Creator. Religion: The belief in a superhuman being with control.
@PaniqFoxx "The point is you need just as much belief that there is no God as I need the same amount to believe that there is a Creator."
If this is true, then it requires just as much belief that there are no ghosts, UFO's, psychic powers, supernatural bigfoots, etc, as it does to believe three is a Creator, too. If all of these claims are equal with regards to evidence/provability, they are all entirely interchangeable.
Enter skepticism: Withhold belief unless you have good evidence.
You didn't even mention the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, which is what most people really mean when they refer to "separation of church and state".
And for the unenlightened, yes, atheism is by definition a religious belief system. It is a systematic dogma that asserts that certain things are true, despite a lack of empirical evidence. Hence, these articles of faith must be taken on... well, faith.
@nateabele "It is a systematic dogma that asserts that certain things are true, "
Incorrect. Although some positive assertions CAN be atheist (for example, the assertion that "god does not exist" requires that the person asserting it believe that the assertion "god exists" is false), it's a common misconception that all atheist positions make an assertion. They do not. All that's required to be an atheist: "I don't believe any assertion I'm aware of that god exists". This is not an assertion.
I'm curious what you think the systematic dogma is. This would be a dogma that is commonly shared among all atheists, including soft/weak atheists, agnostic atheists, raelians, etc. as well as strong atheists.
Is there an atheist manifesto somewhere that all atheist share? Any kind of pledge? No. Because there is no common positive assertion that unites all atheists. It is only relative to theist beliefs that the term has any meaning.
@nateabele One of the difficulties in understanding what atheism "is" as a lack of belief, is that it only exists relative to other beliefs. Not all atheists reject the same kinds of theism. It depends on what they are exposed to. One atheist may be exposed and unconvinced by mostly christian concepts of god, while another is exposed and unconvinced by hindu concepts of god. Or both. The only common thread among atheists is that they are unconvinced by ALL of the theist beliefs they KNOW of.
So atheism need not be a position of absolute certainty. If atheism simply means being unconvinced of any theist concept to date, but not necessarily positively asserting that all theist concepts are false, isn't this agnostic? Yes. It is both agnostic and atheist. It is the position that "although I definitely do not believe in a god(s). I can not know with total certainty (even if I CAN judge probability) that all god beliefs are false.
To clarify for those too thick to get my meaning: a religion is an active belief in something relating to the "big questions." Do you have an opinion on the existence of God, the nature of man, and the cause of evil and suffering? Then you have a religion.
@JoshManYT "To clarify for those too thick to get my meaning: a religion is an active belief in something relating to the "big questions."
Couple of points, though. 1. Your definition of religion is super-broad and seems to include science and philosophy. Most people (and all dictionaries I see) don't agree with it. 2. You can't simply ignore the fact that the most basic and broad definition of atheism is that it's not a set of beliefs, and posits NO particular answers to "big questions".
@iridescentsquids Religion doesn't include science, it includes people who turn to science to get all their answers, just like it includes people who get their answers from religious texts and meditation and what have you.
Question: Is there a god or some form of deity? Atheism says no. Depending on who you ask, atheism also answers the nature of man, the purpose of the universe, and a number of other big questions.
@JoshManYT "Is there a god or some form of deity? Atheism says no."
Actually, an atheist can either say "no" or simply "I don't any ideas for a god I've heard"
"atheism also answers the nature of man"
Here you are mistaking atheism for other "isms" or belief systems. Ex: Somebody can form an own understanding of ethics based on scientific naturalism. That's not atheism, that's another "ism". You can fit any of an infinite # of belief systems with atheism, provided it doesn't involve theism.
Yeah, Atheism and Religion are completely different things. That's why I can't be a Muslim and a Shintoist at the same time, but I can be a Christian and an Atheist at the same time. Duh!
Atheists always get their panties in a wad whenever somebody suggests that atheism is a religion. Let me ask this: Do you believe/think/deduce/know that there is no reality that cannot be detected by scientific means? If so, then what you have is not apathy or ignorance, but an active belief in something.
religion is "an active belief in something"? Do you consider a scientific theory a religion, if somebody believes in it? Libertarianism? Conservatism? If you want to call any and all belief systems religion you can. Most people would disagree, and you would still be wrong about atheism. So knock yourself out.
Only 3 of the 10 commandments made it into our laws and Constitution. When we outlawed slavery we went against the apostle paul who allowed it.
2017Downtown 5 days ago
@2017Downtown "Only 3 of the 10 commandments made it into our laws and Constitution."
Are you sure even 3 of the 10 made into our laws?
I think it would be more accurate to say that our laws happen to coincide with 3 of the 10 commandments, rather than attribute a biblical source for laws that are ubiquitous. They are in fact so common that equivalents to these laws can be found in nearly every legal system, including those that are founded on non-Christian religions.
iridescentsquids 4 days ago
Aaaahh....Jason "Molotov" Mitchell-Lite. Just as fallacy-ridden but just as free of useful content.
arklowrockz 1 week ago
The words twat, patronising and bigoted spring to mind.
NeilDeBarna 1 week ago
Seperation of church and state means keep them apart, it doesn't act as a one way block that keep the state out of churches but lets churches go all Dominionisim on us all.
biggamerjh1 1 week ago
bullshit..... LGBT organizations pays taxes?
trifulquita15 1 week ago
Cuban government is declared officially atheist. And secular liberals cry everytime they read God somewhere.
I SAY SEPARATION OF ATHEISM AND STATE
trifulquita15 1 week ago
@trifulquita15 "I SAY SEPARATION OF ATHEISM AND STATE"
Advocates of separation of church and state agree that there should be no official state position on the existence or non-existence of god, or any particular religion. So in this regards you are entirely in agreement with all of those atheists out there, like myself, who are advocating for separation of church and state. Common ground!
iridescentsquids 1 week ago
@iridescentsquids "should be no official state position on the existence or non-existence of god". Well that is not fair. Atheists are not even the 3% of the population.
The goverment should be theist not religious. But strange things happens these days. Scientists, celebrities, rock stars, millionaires are atheists. Most influential people are atheists. We are not dumb kids. THIS IS A SATANIC AGENDA, i dont believe in coincidences. If the stupid Satan exist, then our GOD also exist
trifulquita15 1 week ago
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iridescentsquids 1 week ago
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@trifulquita15 "The goverment should be theist not religious"
Why not just leave the government out of it? It's bad for politics AND religion when they mix. And even if government is "theist", what kind of theism? Are you saying the government should officially endorse the view that ALL god concepts are true? Some? One? You see where I'm going with this.
By the way, self-identified atheists make up around about 12% of the U.S. population. But that's not relevant. It's a constitutional issue.
iridescentsquids 1 week ago
Why is this under the "Education" category? :S
msEmmamolina 1 week ago
The First Amendment provides that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. This was interpreted as the separation of church and state in The Reynolds V. U.S. case in the late 1800's. How can you say it's not in the Constitution?
relgis15 2 weeks ago
Atheism: Religion
Bald: Hair Color
clarinetbassing 2 weeks ago
VERY GOOD POINT ABOUT THE TAX EXEMPT STATUS COUNTERPOINT
dougmoerhoffman 2 weeks ago
@dougmoerhoffman That was a ridiculous argument. Look at the amount of money the Mormon church donated to Proposition 8 in California. churches should lose their tax exempt status if they contribute to a political candidate or Political Action Committee or political group. Every other cult handles its own finances with government help.
relgis15 2 weeks ago
ppl..............Secularism is not Atheism, its freedom of religion or from religion and just not allowing government policies based of a religious belief. lol those right wingers and islamic jihadists saying "down with secularism" are on the same team
Killerjosh89 2 weeks ago
It was alright until you said atheism is a religion.
DeadFishFactory 2 weeks ago
People are smarter than this..
Mantua64 3 weeks ago
Space monkeys... Christianity... About the same, yeah.
Degenskonto 3 weeks ago 4
Of those who say nothing few are silent
NemoFuitHic 3 weeks ago
QUIT disrespecting us.
Atheism has been bullying the church long enough. They don't realize that if they continue to push us who are clergy and those of us who believe there is a God, they will eventually unleash the wrath of the religious upon them. We have left them alone because we respect their freedom to not believe. But they just continue to disrespect us. If they think God does not exist then what are they so threatened about? It they think we're stupid...so be it. Respect our rights.
drpathall 3 weeks ago
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@drpathall "Respect our rights."
Are you sure you're not mixing up 'separation of church and state' or 'freedom of speech' with bullying/your rights being violated? How have your rights been violated, exactly?
Do you mean that atheists should 'sit down and shut up' when public officials violate separation of church and state, like the judge in texas who tried to hang the 10 commandments in his courtroom? What do you mean by "bullying?"
iridescentsquids 3 weeks ago
I am in eighth grade and knew this. Of course I had civics last year but come on
MrSouthernNerd 3 weeks ago
christians: "there's a god"
atheists: "there's no god"
truth: neither can be proven, there's no reason to argue about wich one is right....
(but atheism is not a religion, just saying...)
arkdonut 4 weeks ago
@arkdonut "atheists: "there's no god"
Ug..Once again please look up "atheism" in 2-3 dictionaries. Read definitions. Compare to your definitions. "disbelief" is not the same thing as believing here is no god. Either way you're right, it's not a religion.
iridescentsquids 3 weeks ago
A lot of people are getting hung up on whether Atheism is a religion or not; but that really isn't necessary for the video's point. The seperation of church and state simply means that the government has no business telling you what you should believe. The point the video is making is that using government to eliminate religion would mean that the government is telling you what you should believe (in this case that religion is false), which would violate the separation of church and state.
Satarack 3 weeks ago
@Satarack "government to eliminate religion would mean that the government is telling you what you should believe (in this case that religion is false),"
IF the government did hang atheist manifestos in place of the 10 commandments I would agree, but obviously there is nothing even remotely similar to that happening. Refraining from endorsing ANY particular religious position over any other is entirely, 100% different then proactively endorsing the specific position that religion is false.
iridescentsquids 3 weeks ago
You cannot claim that American Law is based on Christian ideals because every single Christian ideal was taken from an older religion or culture. Many ideals appear to come to all cultures most of the time (the killing one is a good example). You'll find that very few cultures support the killing of their own people to the point where the population removes itself from the planet. You seem to not understand much of what you are discussing.
shadywolf91 4 weeks ago
Atheism is a disbelief in a deity. That's where it starts and that's where it ends.
Religion is a set of moral standards and beliefs that form the template for the governance of its believers' lives.
Would you call creationism a religion? Would you call the disbelief in leprechauns a religion? No, but I wouldn't put it past you. These are singular, NSA beliefs. The unwarranted smugness of this channel as it promulgates misinformation is sickening. You're not half as smart as you think you are.
Idolsofwood 4 weeks ago 28
@Idolsofwood stfu. Asshole.
0798184 2 weeks ago
@0798184 Well, you're quite the erudite gentleman. Thanks for making an utter idiot out of yourself, saves me the time.
Idolsofwood 2 weeks ago
@Idolsofwood well most people would call Christianity a religion. But I think of it as a relationship with god that has morals that you live by. Atheism is the same thing but with a lack of believing in a higher power. There are many kinds of Christians just like there are many kinds of atheists. You’re talking about loose belief systems that are subject to debate. He was expressing his opinion on what they mean. He was also trying to be informative not "Smart".
ninjaturtletyke55555 1 week ago
@ninjaturtletyke55555 Try split some more hairs. What you've described is exactly what a religion is, quite an elementary issue with your argument, geez. It's like saying "many people believe a hot dog is a food, but I believe it's just a sausage in bread." There's no "opinion" on matters of fact. You can't debate when factually wrong. And evidently, the tone that this misinformation is spread with (the punchlines, the dispositions, the one-liners) is meant to be witty; actually, it's utter poo.
Idolsofwood 1 week ago 6
@Idolsofwood most people will sell their opinions with facts. Politics do it all the time. He just try’s to make light of controversial issues. But anyway when you try to put a definition to religion some people think of a belief system that you must follow religiously. Others may say it’s just what you believe in. it can be very loosely defined. i don’t think atheism is a religion but by his definition it is and I don’t see what’s wrong with having an opinion.
ninjaturtletyke55555 1 week ago
@ninjaturtletyke55555 There's nothing wrong with having an opinion, what a banal thing to say. There is, however, something very wrong with having an opinion that is ridiculous and stupid. You're entitled to it, but I'm also entitled to tell you you're a dickhead. Which this guy is. I'm still trying to work out the relevance of your first sentence which I'm fairly sure means absolutely nothing. You cannot have an opinion on the meaning of a bloody word, just stop trying.
Idolsofwood 1 week ago
@Idolsofwood example: pride: a word people see as a bad thing because you refuse to let go of whatever it is that may not be important in the long run. Other common definition: Something that you did that was great and you are proud of yourself for it. Words can be molded to mean just the opposite of what people mean. That’s why it’s impossible to not contradict yourself because words can have so much meaning and the word religion is no exception. That’s what I meant.
ninjaturtletyke55555 1 week ago
@Idolsofwood did I reply to this commen? srry i was haveing a debate with someone else while debating with you.
ninjaturtletyke55555 1 week ago
@ninjaturtletyke55555 "He was also trying to be informative not "Smart"."
Honestly, I don't see evidence that he is trying to be informative in any objective sense. I see much more evidence, especially if we consider these videos as a collection, that he is trying to create the impression that facts conform to his opinions/agenda. He uses many fallacious techniques to achieve this, including misrepresenting facts...maybe even lying at a times. I can provide specifics if interested.
iridescentsquids 1 week ago
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ninjaturtletyke55555 1 week ago
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@iridescentsquids Most of his videos he talks about facts and what most people he has interacted with say then tells you his opinion. Of Corse he is going to have an opinion on a controversial subject. All people try to sell their opinions with facts they know because that is the only real way to do it. There is no such thing as no bias. Many statistics disagree with each other. Honestly statistics and facts very so much that it is impossible to know when someone is lying.
ninjaturtletyke55555 1 week ago
@ninjaturtletyke55555 "Many statistics disagree with each other. "
No, I mean he outright lies, or makes huge factual errors. Most of the factual errors he makes are very very easy to fact-check, with little effort or time, suggesting to me he either put almost no effort into making sure he had his facts was right, or he decided it served his purpose better to simply tell lies.
I have NO PROBLEM with him expressing his opinion. Just don't think he has to lie in the process.
iridescentsquids 1 week ago
@ninjaturtletyke55555 (continued)
And the reason I say he lies is important, as it's not a accusation I take lightly. I understand it's virtually impossible to know somebody's intent.
I include intellectual dishonesty within the spectrum of lies. What he is doing is deceptive + dishonest.
Some of his errors/lies are too big to be just mistakes. In both his Darwin video and Scientific method video, he gets 8th grade level science entirely backward just to support his bias. No excuse for it.
iridescentsquids 1 week ago
@iridescentsquids I don’t see where he is being dishonest on purpose though. All he did was explain how our country was founded on some Christian ideals but left freedom of religion. He then made a joke on how we have no culture. Then he explained how you could accidently make government more corrupt by turning religious groups into lobby groups. Please explain.
ninjaturtletyke55555 1 week ago
@ninjaturtletyke55555 @ninjaturtletyke55555 You mean in this particular video? 3:00 he say's that people are eager to get rid of the 10 commandments in courtrooms "because they disagree with what it says". Either this is a sloppy explanation of the separation of church and state ruling, or a blatant misrepresentation of the position of nearly all proponents of the concept, including the ACLU. They state their position very clearly. Somehow he has gotten it entirely wrong. How did he manage that?
iridescentsquids 1 week ago
@ninjaturtletyke55555 (continued 1) He then goes on to compare separation of church and state positions on the 10 commandments in courtrooms to the Taliban destroying Buddhist sculptures, so if there was any doubt he is misrepresenting the sep of church and state position he's erased it here.
iridescentsquids 1 week ago
@ninjaturtletyke55555 (continued 2) Going backward for second, his premise that our country's laws are founded on religious principles is hugely debatable. (he starts this argument around 2:45). What is his evidence for this? He has none. He's simply stating it as if it's a fact. Which he has a right to do...but it's an example of presenting a personal opinion as if it were a fact, which he then uses as evidence for the claims that follow. Not exactly a lie, but misinformation of sorts.
iridescentsquids 1 week ago
@ninjaturtletyke55555 (continued 3) at 3:36 I agree with his opinion regarding right to vote however we want to, including for religious reasons. And no factual errors...until he starts talking about atheism as a religion. That's either a semantic mistake on his part (by using incorrect definitions of either "atheism" or "religion") or simply an error in logic. But his overall point about voting rights allowing for religious reasoning is consistent with our constitution. He's right about that.
iridescentsquids 1 week ago
@ninjaturtletyke55555 (continued 4) So his4:00 point about atheism being a religion is not correct either semantically, definitionally, or logically. I mean, he gets the basic definition of atheism wrong by saying it's a "belief that there is no god". But I don't believe this is really a lie so much as an error in judgement or lack of understanding, as I pointed out. It's in fact a very common error that a lot of people make.
iridescentsquids 1 week ago
@ninjaturtletyke55555 (continued 5) In summary he makes some pretty bad mistakes in this video, and what I would consider one serious mistake that MAY constitute either a lie or a serious misunderstanding (which just happens to back up his argument, so is suspicious), and that's the mistake about the separation of church and state position. Overall this video has far fewer factual errors than his other videos, of which I was mostly referring when I said that he's dishonest.
iridescentsquids 1 week ago
@iridescentsquids Ok that seems pretty logical to me. I still think that if take all the conroversy out of the word religion and look at it as a word that it can mean different things to different people. because differences in beliefs is what makes people disaproove of each other. athiesm brings out that quality just like any other belief. thats why his definitions and explainations didint bother me. I only heard the point he was trying to get accross. thanks for explaining.
ninjaturtletyke55555 1 week ago
@ninjaturtletyke55555 "athiesm brings out that quality just like any other belief."
You have a point, but you can't discount all of the atheists who don't proclaim any particular belief...who simply don't believe in theist claims and make no specific positive assertions. That's a huge part of the atheist population (maybe a majority). So to lump them all together as a religion can't be right. SOME atheists share beliefs, but very few. Its factually inaccurate to say they share the same beliefs.
iridescentsquids 1 week ago
@iridescentsquids yah that sounds reasonable. Nice to have a debate without someone using vulgarities for a change. Have a nice day.
ninjaturtletyke55555 1 week ago
@ninjaturtletyke55555 Cool. Thanks. Been a pleasure.
iridescentsquids 1 week ago
@Idolsofwood Kaufman v McCautry, a Federal court ruled that atheism comprises a religion in order to protect it on the same grounds as other religions. In saying that you lack a belief in god(s), you have effectively made a decision to follow a religion of no god(s). And his point that the state (i.e. government) is not bound to be devoid of any and all religious influence is absolutely correct. The language of the First Amendment merely prevents an established religion or prohibiting religion.
rascalrabbyt 1 week ago
@rascalrabbyt The nice way of saying this is: you're full of shit. Legal terms function as matters of convenience. The court ruled that way as a matter of free speech protection, it's a tedious discussion that is totally irrelevant to this one. Let's not be utter morons, please. It's impossible even to begin believing that a single disbelief is equal to a litany of morals, teachings, rules, propositions, suppositions, and claims. There is no parallel at all, you're insulting yourself by trying.
Idolsofwood 1 week ago
@Idolsofwood It is the assertion that no god(s) exist, which cannot be deductively proven. Thus, it must fall under a religious philosophy with a belief; it also arguably has 5 of N. Smart's 7 traits.
rascalrabbyt 1 week ago
@rascalrabbyt Oh, right, so I cannot prove that there is not an omniscient and omnipotent demi-god unicorn under my bed and I don't believe there is, and because it comprises a religious element and can't be deductively proven, Anti-Unicorn Nether Matressism is also a religion.
Furthermore, atheists don't have to "prove". The religious are making the claim to the existence of a god. There is no evidence for a positive claim, so I will sit here with no belief sipping daiquiris until there is.
Idolsofwood 1 week ago
Religion = belief in a higher power that governs human life. Atheism = no higher power....how did he draw the conclusion that Atheism is a religion? Oh...ignorance...I get it.
iTzJimBoi 1 month ago 2
The word is zealotry.
MobiusCoin 1 month ago
@MobiusCoin I thought it was zeal.
English is too complicated.
Forty different ways to name a noun.
SOJ277 4 weeks ago
Lost all credibility at "Atheistic religion".
CarnieKing 1 month ago 27
@CarnieKing he had credibility?
biggamerjh1 1 week ago
Until it is empirically proven that there is no God, Atheism is a belief structure. And given it has very particular behaviors, calling it a Religion is not as inaccurate as Atheists would like to believe. Because Religion is a very specific human phenomena. And atheists, like all who participate in religion, have some similar traits.
Sorry, it's okay. I don't believe I know one way or the other. Therefore I am one who can say I have no religion. If you're stating an opinion as fact...religion.
MaSTASoLIDUS 1 month ago
@MaSTASoLIDUS "If you're stating an opinion as fact...religion."
And atheists don't, so...not a religion by your definition.
It might help to read a little about what exactly atheism is/is not. Otherwise you might be forming your position on a simple misconception.
Your first statement, for example, seems off. What do you mean 'belief structure?' Everything that a person believes and does not believe? In that case practically everything is a religion. That can't be right.
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
@iridescentsquids well technically he said "a belief in NO god" which would be like a religion, as opposed to choosing not to believe in a god.
cdog4100 1 month ago
@cdog4100 "well technically he said "a belief in NO god" which would be like a religion,"
Who? I was responding to MaSTASoLIDUS. You mean the guy in the video? I don't think that fellow knows what atheism is.
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
This guy shouldn't have his own audience. He's so unintelligent and opinionated. Spreading misinformation should be a crime.
MeepullStewray 1 month ago
@MeepullStewray I agree. He's a salesman of misinformation.
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
The wall of seperation was put into words by Jefferson because it was in a letter to a congregation who were afraid of being oppressed.
The fact that in the bill of rights establishes the prevention of the acknowledgement of religion by government and establishment. That carries the implications that no law, policy or practice can support religion.
OkamsRazer 1 month ago
Atheism is the lack of a religion, not a religion, maybe you could say radical anti-theism is a religion, but basic atheism is not. being an atheist just means i do not believe in a god, i don't follow any dogma, or hold any supernatural beliefs, kind of the opposite of religion. Radical anti-theism on the other hand could be considered a religion because that may require some set beliefs, such as the belief that religions are so harmful that they must be destroyed. But i digress.
naturalistmind 1 month ago
"a·the·ism/ˈāTHēˌizəm/ Noun:
The theory or 'belief' that God does not exist."
"re·li·gion/riˈlijən/ Noun:
1. The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.
2. Details of 'belief' as taught or discussed."
For all the self righteous assholes who don't know their own religion.
SecretSquaff 1 month ago
@SecretSquaff "For all the self righteous assholes who don't know their own religion."
get off your high horse and do some real research:
ATHEISM
a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity
DISBELIEF
Noun:
a. Inability or refusal to accept that something is true or real.
b. Lack of faith in something.
Re: the definition of belief you provide "Details of a belief as taught or discussed" --> There is not belief in disbelief.
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
@iridescentsquids Mine is provided by the best known dictionary on the internet.
"be·lief/biˈlēf/ Noun:
1. An acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
2. Something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction"
SO the statement "God(any god) does not exist." is not a statement atheists believe in?
SecretSquaff 1 month ago
@SecretSquaff You seem to know best what every atheist believes or does not believe. Why bother asking?
If you're truly interested in the definition of a word, the dictionary is a good place to start, but definitions differ from one to another. Most I have seen (nearly half at least) use the word disbelief.
More importantly, it is the position espoused by most Atheists
Until you learn to distinguish between rejecting a belief and asserting a negative you won't get it.
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
@SecretSquaff "SO the statement "God(any god) does not exist." is not a statement atheists believe in?"
Yes, it is. But again, for some reason you don't see the difference between rejecting a belief and positing a negative.
To make the above statement it is required that one not believe the opposite, but it is not required to believe the above statement in order to not believe the opposite. Follow? "I don't believe in XYZ (or any) concept of a god" is not the same as "God does not exist"
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
@SecretSquaff To clarify your point "SO the statement "God(any god) does not exist." is not a statement atheists believe in?"
1. It is an atheist statement because you can't believe in a god and believe this statement is true. But...
2. Many (most perhaps) atheists wouldn't make the statement. They simply say "I'm not convinced by any arguments for God I've heard".
Do you see the difference? The first is a positive assertion. The second is not believing, or not being convinced.
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
@iridescentsquids Someone who directly says "God is not real" is Athiest. Someone who says "I am not convinced b any arguments for God I've heard" is obviously Agnostic. Please research before you comment; you sound like an idiot.
blackasnight333 1 month ago
@blackasnight333 " Please research before you comment; you sound like an idiot."
What's with all the know-it-alls around here?
You are, by the way, mistaken. Atheism refers to what you believe, agnosticism with what you know or think is knowable.
If I don't believe, I'm an atheist. It's that simple. If I don't believe, and believe I can't ever know with certainty, I'm an 'agnostic atheist'. If you are a theist and believe you can't know for sure you are an 'agnostic theist'.
Common mistake.
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
@iridescentsquids Atheism is not BELIEF. Its the LACK of one. Agnosticism is not being sure about a higher power/diety.
blackasnight333 1 month ago
@blackasnight333 Gnosticism/Agnosticism has to do with you know or think is knowable whereas atheism has to do with belief. Not being convinced = disbelief, or lack of belief. Same thing. An agnostic can still believe in god, just denies that one can have ultimate knowledge regarding the truth of the claim. Most agnostics are, however, skeptics at heart, and tend to disbelieve theist claims. Also faith and agnosticism tend to conflict.
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
@iridescentsquids "Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities." "Agnostic - A denial of knowledge about whether there is or is not a God. An agnostic insists that it is impossible to prove that there is no God and impossible to prove that there is one."
Atheism is the complete rejection of a higher power. Agnosticism is the uncertainty of there being a higher power.
Now stop trying to tell me what MY "religion" (as you call it) is.
blackasnight333 1 month ago
@blackasnight333 "Now stop trying to tell me what MY "religion" (as you call it) is"
I didn't call anything a religion. I think you are mistakem.
I'd almost prefer to just let it drop, but you aren't actually representing the dictionary definitions in your statements that follow. Atheism = rejection of belief. Agnosticism is denial of knowledge. So... belief vs. knowledge. Two different aspects to the theistic debate, and not mutually exclusive as you imply that they are.
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
@iridescentsquids I pulled the definition of Agnostic from a dictionary. The other was from Wiki. They are both correct. You have already changed your argument several times, so there's no need to argue anymore.
Just remember that this was your first argument, which is incorrect:
"Anybody who does not believe in god is an atheist." "Does the person who says "I'm not convinced..." not believe in god? Yes, they don't believe in god. So they are atheists."
Good day.
blackasnight333 1 month ago
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iridescentsquids 1 month ago
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@blackasnight333 lol...but I didn't say I think the dictionary definitions are wrong...sigh...and I haven't changed my position at all. i think you just keep misunderstanding it. And you aren't properly applying the definitions you are providing!
The terms agnostic and atheist are NOT mutually exclusive. One deals with belief, the other knowledge. When somebody says "I'm not convinced..." they are talking about belief. (being convinced = believing). So it means to disbelieve, which = atheism.
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
@blackasnight333 (continued)
The problem here is two-fold: 1) You don't understand my position. and 2) You don't understand the dictionary definitions (which you yourself provided)
I'm sorry. I know this is painful (is for me as well), but you're just not getting it. Sorry.
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
@iridescentsquids 1) You're right. I don't understand, because you keep changing it. 2) I understand the definitions completely, thank you.
My point here, is that Atheism is NOT a religion - it is the lack of one. And Agnosticism is the disbelief of a higher power. That's all I'm saying.
blackasnight333 1 month ago
@blackasnight333 "My point here, is that Atheism is NOT a religion"
I agree.
"Agnosticism is the disbelief of a higher power."
err...actually, look at the definition you provided. It is a denial of KNOWLEDGE. Root "gnostic" means 'knowledge'.
Your definition of agnosticism (above) is actually the definition of atheism.
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
@iridescentsquids Disbelief, not being convinced, denial of knowledge, WHATEVER you want to call it, it is NOT Atheism. That is all I'm saying.
blackasnight333 1 month ago
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@blackasnight333 "it is NOT Atheism."
My position has never been inconsistent with the two definitions you provided.
I would agree with you that denial of knowledge is not atheism. That would be agnosticism. And agnosticism is not the same as atheism, as I've repeatedly said. But the two are not mutually exclusive, either, as I've also repeatedly said.
And "disbelief in god" is a frequent dictionary definition of atheism.
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
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@blackasnight333 (cont) "Someone who says "I am not convinced b any arguments for God I've heard" is obviously Agnostic"
In other words, the use of the term "agnostic" here is just as appropriate as the use of the word atheist. Anybody who does not believe in god is an atheist. Agree? Does the person who says "I'm not convinced..." not believe in god? Yes, they don't believe in god. So they are atheists. In this case agnostic atheist, or soft atheist, or weak atheist. All terms for an atheist.
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
If atheism is a religion then off is a TV channel.
Arteia 1 month ago 24
@Arteia If atheism is a religion, then black is a colour.
Oh wait, black is a colour. Hmm, your argument seems to have a counter example, I guess it must be invalid.
Satarack 1 month ago
@Arteia If "Arteia" gets to decide what the definition of religion is, then I get to decide what the definition of "Arteia" is... but I won't cause I'm nice. ;] The definition of religion actually is "a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sect," and Atheism definitely meets those qualifications, even if your own personal preconceived opinion contradicts it.
guardianewjedijoel 3 weeks ago
@guardianewjedijoel "Atheism definitely meets those qualifications,"
By your own definition, if you can't name "specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices" that are common among all atheists it is not a religion. And you can't without getting the definition of atheism wrong.
Why is it important that you be able to call atheism a religion, anyways? Do you need to misrepresent every position you disagree with. (I'm referring to your misrepresentation of evolution in the other thread)
iridescentsquids 3 weeks ago
@iridescentsquids Here are the set of beliefs that Atheists hold to:Atheists fundamentally believe that there is no God, that there is no right or wrong, that every human being has the authority in and of himself to do whatever they want to,and that there is only the natural in existence.It is important to inform people that Atheism is a religion, because if they're not, they're believing a lie, and this lie leads to serious consequences (which I don't want anyone to endure.)
guardianewjedijoel 3 weeks ago
@guardianewjedijoel "Atheists fundamentally believe that there is no God"
some do, but by no means all.
" that there is no right or wrong, "
This is bull. Where did you hear that nonsense? As an atheist myself I can assure you that is nonsense.
"that every human being has the authority in and of himself to do whatever they want to"
Absolutely ludicrous + false.
"that there is only the natural in existence"
I don't know what this means. What's an example of the unnatural in existence?
iridescentsquids 3 weeks ago
@guardianewjedijoel (continued)
clearly you are operating under some incorrect definitions/understanding of what atheism is. If you're interested I'll let you know what it really is, but I get the feeling you don't really want to know.
iridescentsquids 3 weeks ago
@iridescentsquids If you believe there is right and wrong, what is the definition of evil, where does it come from, and why should it be avoided?Also why can't any human being do whatever they want to if there is no God?What is the limiting factor, and why should we obey it?Natural as defined by something tangible and physical.An example is love, feelings, ethical obligations (which you say you believe in, but you have not given evidence for its existence.)
guardianewjedijoel 3 weeks ago
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@guardianewjedijoel "If you believe there is right and wrong, what is the definition of evil," Look at a dictionary: "Profoundly immoral and malevolent." It comes from immoral or malevolent behavior.
"why can't any human being do whatever they want to if there is no God?" Why would they? Fear of punishment is not the only motive to do good. Love, empathy, desire to be treated well and genuine desire to make other people happy...these qualities do not exist just because people fear punishment.
iridescentsquids 3 weeks ago
@guardianewjedijoel "An example is love, feelings, ethical obligations (which you say you believe in, but you have not given evidence for its existence.)"
These are examples of abstractions...concepts...and as such are real and natural in as much as any being that conceives of these things is natural. They do not have a physical presence, but that does not make them unnatural, or supernatural.
I very much believe that I experience love. But I don't believe love floats around the room.
iridescentsquids 3 weeks ago
@iridescentsquids You are saying that if you can conceive of something, then it must be natural.What are your premises to this conclusion?They are unnatural in the sense that you can't provide tangible evidence for their existence, you merely believe that they exist,(as you just admitted.)this concept is an example of how things can exist without physical evidence.What evidence can you provide for the existence of ethical obligations, since you have said you believe they exist.
guardianewjedijoel 3 weeks ago
@guardianewjedijoel "You are saying that if you can conceive of something, then it must be natural"
Yea...sure..the process of thinking and having ideas is perfectly natural. I don't see any reason to call it supernatural. Do you?
What would be unnatural is if I thought of something and it became real simply because I thought it, and without any physical connection between my mind and the natural world. But I know of no demonstrable instances of such occurrences. Do you?
iridescentsquids 3 weeks ago
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@iridescentsquids I didn't say thinking and having ideas was supernatural, I said that IDEAS and abstract things such as love can be considered unnatural and not part of the physical world because you cannot provide tangible (touchable) physical evidence of their existence.Answer this question: What evidence can you provide for the existence of ethical obligations, since you have said you believe they exist.
guardianewjedijoel 3 weeks ago
@guardianewjedijoel By that definition, veganism is a religion, World of Warcraft is a religion, and politics is a religion.
The only thing common among all atheists is the disbelief in a god or gods. Agnosticism and atheism are not mutually exclusive, in fact most atheists are agnostic. But there is no practice that is agreed upon by all atheists, unless not doing something is considered a practice, in which case we reached a whole new level of ridiculousness.
Arteia 2 weeks ago
@Arteia I didn't make the definition up, that is the dictionary definition.Anything that meets the qualifications of a definition, is the term that was defined, despite any preconceived bias or assumptions.There are many things that all atheists believe because there are many corollaries off of the single belief "there is no god," (which I have previously listed.)They all believe these things, not because of convention or popular vote, but rather they all agreed on the source argument.
guardianewjedijoel 2 weeks ago
@guardianewjedijoel for example if two people agreed that orange is yellow, then it would also be correct to say that they would believe purple is the compliment of what they claimed was orange. In the case of Atheism, if these subset of beliefs off of the statement "there is no god" are logical corollaries from the source belief, then yes, Atheism is a religion by the dictionary's definition (even if the dictionary's definition is not your definition.)
guardianewjedijoel 2 weeks ago
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@guardianewjedijoel "In the case of Atheism, if these subset of beliefs off of the statement "there is no god""
Why is this so hard to understand? And why hold on so desperately to this obvious misunderstanding? Honestly, I just don't understand the point of your reasoning.
If somebody says they don't believe something, why isn't that good enough for you? Why do you have to interpret that to mean they have a religion? What's in it for you?
iridescentsquids 2 weeks ago
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@guardianewjedijoel "They all believe these things, not because of convention or popular vote, but rather they all agreed on the source argument."
Again, if you care whether what you say is true or not, I would rethink what you're saying here. Whether you get your definition from dictionaries or atheists themselves, there is no core belief that unites all atheists.
This seems to be a theme with you...making stuff up to suit some kind of agenda. What's the agenda?
iridescentsquids 2 weeks ago
Utah has no separation ... Mormons , Mormons, Mormons....
Bulldog76center 1 month ago
Please don't help along the stupid misconception that Atheism is a religion, which, it isn't. Its a lack of one. No Religion.
lebeaubastion 1 month ago 15
@lebeaubastion no, >> I << have no religion. i dont beleive or disbelieve in anything. i just dont care. im not atheist, christian, muslim, or neo paganist. in other words I HAVE NO RELIGION. atheism is the disbelief in a god or a belief that there is no god. therefore, as a belief, it not only IS a religion but it just shot its self in the foot.
NopletiUnderwood 1 month ago
@NopletiUnderwood " therefore, as a belief"
err.. think you just shot yourself in the foot when you said "atheism is the disbelief in a god" and then said "therefore, as a belief".
You were on the right track...then I don't know what happened.
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
@iridescentsquids God are all youtube users THIS STUPID! read it again in case you missed the "or the BELIEF that there is no god" part.
idgit
NopletiUnderwood 1 month ago
@NopletiUnderwood You're joking, right?
by your definition (which I basically agree with):
A ) If somebody disbelieves god they are an atheist
OR (not "and")
B) if somebody believes there is no god they are an atheist.
Therefore, some atheists do not have beliefs with regards to theism. They simply disbelieve. Which means they have no belief.
So, in summary, some atheists have beliefs regarding the non existence of god, some DO NOT. Repeat that for emphasis: Some do not have belief.
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
@iridescentsquids then they are not atheist. like me THEY HAVE NO RELIGION. they dont believe or disbelieve. they just dont care. they have no religion. quit it with thee empty root. its annoying
NopletiUnderwood 1 month ago
@NopletiUnderwood (continued)
If your going to peddle this dumb misconception that atheism is a religion, you've got to make it clear that you are only referring to atheists who believe that god does not exist, not to atheism in general.
That aside, you're using an idiosyncratic and largely useless definition of religion when you say any belief regarding the existence or non existence of god constitutes a "religion". By any reputable definition of "religion" that's simply incorrect.
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
@iridescentsquids dude, A god. not just god. A god (or more). or a belief in something. a strong beliefe that there is something else or nothing else in this case. something that you take as the way the world, life, and after life works. that is religion
NopletiUnderwood 1 month ago
@NopletiUnderwood " something that you take as the way the world, life, and after life works. that is religion"
Atheism doesn't have to explain or propose anything. It's just means "I don't believe this or that or any theist idea I've heard so far in my life" or "I'm not convinced"
Granted there's a lot of cultural baggage, but it's still just a descriptive term, NOT a religion.
Call yourself whatever you want. But in my opinion it's best not to misrepresent other's positions in the process.
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
@iridescentsquids and .... moving on with my life now
NopletiUnderwood 1 month ago
@lebeaubastion
Do you have faith (...believe...) that there is no God or devil?
242android242 1 month ago
@lebeaubastion It's a belief system. Does that work for you?
LennytheWicked 1 month ago
The united states was not based on enlgihtened christian values! a good portion of the founding fathers were deists, get your 18th century history right!
ipeterG123 1 month ago in playlist More videos from WhatYouOughtToKnow
I understand what you mean about becoming agnostic at the polls. But if you believe that everyone has the right to believe in their chosen religion, then you have to believe that your religious values shouldn't be forced on people that don't practice your religion. The point of laws are to help us live together. Not give you the right to hold your wife's hand as she dies, and then refused to allow the same thing to homosexual because of your religion.
JElzMar 1 month ago
@JElzMar "The point of laws are to help us live together. "
I hadn't thought of that. a great point...except that in theory constitutional rights are protected no matter how much voters wish to undermine those rights through popular votes. Again, in theory even if people were voting with a mind to remove the rights of others, in the long run they would not be able to. Prop 22 and prop 8 court rulings being some recent examples of constitutional rights trumping popular vote.
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
Holy crap! (No pun intended.) It's right here in the first amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." Yes, the exact words "separation of church and state" aren't in those documents. We paraphrased because it's a long statement and we talk about it a lot. A lot of us think this is important. It doesn't mean religion can't inspire legislation. It means religion can't trump the constitution.
sallyunraveled 1 month ago
He never said Christianity invented "thou shall not kill". He said "Thou shall not kill" made it into our laws because Christianity was the popular religion among 'our' founding fathers.
SecretSquaff 1 month ago
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@SecretSquaff "He said "Thou shall not kill" made it into our laws because Christianity was the popular religion among 'our' founding fathers."
Which is ridiculous. Those words are not in the U.S Constitution let alone U.S laws. The 10th amendment lets states legislate such things, and our founding fathers were not plopping the 10 commandments into the constitution! To attribute the illegality of murder in U.S. laws to Christianity is just bizarre. The concept and law is ubiquitous.
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
That was genius. Well done!
TheSimplyQua 1 month ago
This guy should really have his own show. He's a genius that exposes both sides of radicalism. Left and Right.
Sirafrican 1 month ago
@Sirafrican "He's a genius that exposes both sides of radicalism."
A genius who routinely gets his facts ass-backwards.
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
@iridescentsquids Such as what facts? Everything seems dead on to me.
Sirafrican 1 month ago
@Sirafrican Not that everything he says is wrong. Most of what he says is conjecture and opinion, which is fine. But here are a few facts he got totally wrong that are very easy to confirm with some quick searches:
3:50 and 3:57 he insists adamantly that atheism 1. "a belief that there is no god" and 2. constitutes a religion. On point 1. just look up "atheism in the dictionary. Says "disbelief". Look up the definition of "disbelief". Means to withhold belief, NOT to believe the opposite.(cont)
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
@Sirafrican (cont) on point 2. is atheism a religion, this depends entirely upon your definition of religion. Again, look it up in the dictionary. Atheism is the disbelief in theistic concepts, not a belief in an of itself, so, sorry, does not confirm to the dictionary definition of religion, either. Of course, he probably has a broader definition of what constitutes a "religion", too. Not one you would find in a dictionary, I would bet.
(cont)
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
@Sirafrican 3. I find his claim at 2:33 odd that the illegality of murder is a Christian thing. Murder's illegal in every culture, and such laws predate Christianity, so I think he's mixed up here as well.
4. at 3:03 he says people want to get rid of the 10 commandments in public buildings because they don't believe in what it says. Maybe some people do somewhere (lots of people out there), but this is a huge misrepresentation of the most popular reasons people oppose such displays (cont)
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
@Sirafrican (cont)
most people oppose these displays (usually NOT historic displays, but NEW displays being erected) because it can constitute a state endorsement of Christian laws over secular laws. This was the case in texas recently when a judge tried hanging the 10 commandments in court. It wasn't an issue about the history of our buildings, or about people not believing in the 10 commandments. It was a blatant violation of the principle of Sep of Church and State. Totally different. (cont)
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
@Sirafrican (cont)
I'll conclude by saying this is one of his more factually accurate videos, despite the many errors. You should check out his science topic vids. They are filled with horrible mistakes and factual inaccuracies...and some blatantly biased misrepresentations (particularly on issues regarding evolution...but he gets 8th grade level facts wrong in his "scientific method" video, too)
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
The best thing that could happen to churches to remove the tax exempt status, then they could do what ever they want to. Yes, atheism is a religion, you must believe that there is no God to be and atheist, and religion is based on belief.
dbpx4 1 month ago
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@dbpx4 "you must believe that there is no God to be and atheist"
1. Look up "atheism" is a reputable dictionary. 2. Read definition 3. Think about whether that definition is consistent with your above statement, or the position of actual atheists you talk to.
"Disbelief" means to withhold belief, not necessarily believe there is no god.
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
You lost me at "atheism is a religion: the belief that there is no god". That's entirely incorrect. Doesn't invalidate the entire video, but it is an irritating misconception that pops up everywhere.
Windysmoke 1 month ago
@Windysmoke He was trying to make a point. The point is you need just as much belief that there is no God as I need the same amount to believe that there is a Creator. Religion: The belief in a superhuman being with control.
PaniqFoxx 1 month ago
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@PaniqFoxx "The point is you need just as much belief that there is no God as I need the same amount to believe that there is a Creator."
If this is true, then it requires just as much belief that there are no ghosts, UFO's, psychic powers, supernatural bigfoots, etc, as it does to believe three is a Creator, too. If all of these claims are equal with regards to evidence/provability, they are all entirely interchangeable.
Enter skepticism: Withhold belief unless you have good evidence.
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
You didn't even mention the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, which is what most people really mean when they refer to "separation of church and state".
And for the unenlightened, yes, atheism is by definition a religious belief system. It is a systematic dogma that asserts that certain things are true, despite a lack of empirical evidence. Hence, these articles of faith must be taken on... well, faith.
nateabele 1 month ago
@nateabele "It is a systematic dogma that asserts that certain things are true, "
Incorrect. Although some positive assertions CAN be atheist (for example, the assertion that "god does not exist" requires that the person asserting it believe that the assertion "god exists" is false), it's a common misconception that all atheist positions make an assertion. They do not. All that's required to be an atheist: "I don't believe any assertion I'm aware of that god exists". This is not an assertion.
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
@nateabele "It is a systematic dogma"
I'm curious what you think the systematic dogma is. This would be a dogma that is commonly shared among all atheists, including soft/weak atheists, agnostic atheists, raelians, etc. as well as strong atheists.
Is there an atheist manifesto somewhere that all atheist share? Any kind of pledge? No. Because there is no common positive assertion that unites all atheists. It is only relative to theist beliefs that the term has any meaning.
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
@nateabele One of the difficulties in understanding what atheism "is" as a lack of belief, is that it only exists relative to other beliefs. Not all atheists reject the same kinds of theism. It depends on what they are exposed to. One atheist may be exposed and unconvinced by mostly christian concepts of god, while another is exposed and unconvinced by hindu concepts of god. Or both. The only common thread among atheists is that they are unconvinced by ALL of the theist beliefs they KNOW of.
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
@iridescentsquids (part 4--sorry this is so long)
So atheism need not be a position of absolute certainty. If atheism simply means being unconvinced of any theist concept to date, but not necessarily positively asserting that all theist concepts are false, isn't this agnostic? Yes. It is both agnostic and atheist. It is the position that "although I definitely do not believe in a god(s). I can not know with total certainty (even if I CAN judge probability) that all god beliefs are false.
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
From now on i'm a non-stapcollector
TheRedLuigi 1 month ago
I agree we have no culture!
newmoonrose 1 month ago
To clarify for those too thick to get my meaning: a religion is an active belief in something relating to the "big questions." Do you have an opinion on the existence of God, the nature of man, and the cause of evil and suffering? Then you have a religion.
JoshManYT 1 month ago
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@JoshManYT "To clarify for those too thick to get my meaning: a religion is an active belief in something relating to the "big questions."
Couple of points, though. 1. Your definition of religion is super-broad and seems to include science and philosophy. Most people (and all dictionaries I see) don't agree with it. 2. You can't simply ignore the fact that the most basic and broad definition of atheism is that it's not a set of beliefs, and posits NO particular answers to "big questions".
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
@iridescentsquids Religion doesn't include science, it includes people who turn to science to get all their answers, just like it includes people who get their answers from religious texts and meditation and what have you.
Question: Is there a god or some form of deity? Atheism says no. Depending on who you ask, atheism also answers the nature of man, the purpose of the universe, and a number of other big questions.
JoshManYT 1 month ago
@JoshManYT "Is there a god or some form of deity? Atheism says no."
Actually, an atheist can either say "no" or simply "I don't any ideas for a god I've heard"
"atheism also answers the nature of man"
Here you are mistaking atheism for other "isms" or belief systems. Ex: Somebody can form an own understanding of ethics based on scientific naturalism. That's not atheism, that's another "ism". You can fit any of an infinite # of belief systems with atheism, provided it doesn't involve theism.
iridescentsquids 1 month ago
Yeah, Atheism and Religion are completely different things. That's why I can't be a Muslim and a Shintoist at the same time, but I can be a Christian and an Atheist at the same time. Duh!
oracleoftroy 1 month ago
@oracleoftroy it is the lack of a religion....
allblue88 1 month ago
Atheists always get their panties in a wad whenever somebody suggests that atheism is a religion. Let me ask this: Do you believe/think/deduce/know that there is no reality that cannot be detected by scientific means? If so, then what you have is not apathy or ignorance, but an active belief in something.
That's what a religion is.
JoshManYT 1 month ago
@JoshManYT
religion is "an active belief in something"? Do you consider a scientific theory a religion, if somebody believes in it? Libertarianism? Conservatism? If you want to call any and all belief systems religion you can. Most people would disagree, and you would still be wrong about atheism. So knock yourself out.
iridescentsquids 1 month ago