Halfsword Throw - Ringen am Schwert (Wrestling at the Sword)

[Suketa]

I'm DESPERATELY trying to get in contact with ARMA, or anyone who teaches HEMA... But, from what it looks like, half-swording as a technique is one of the most differentiating techniques from European from Asian martial-arts.

[gurkfisk89]

@Suketa

I don't know if this will help you, but here is a map with some of the HEMA groups in USA.

communitywalk . com / THE-HEMA-ALLIANCE-Training-Par­tner-Finder

[lockbreak12]

@Suketa technically some kenjitsu forms have halfswording but it is more an afterthought in the art as a whole

[Jetman123]

@Suketa I know this comment was made nine months ago, but if you're still interested in western martial arts, shell out 200$ and buy yourself two things:

1. A pair of longsword wasters (Purpleheart armory are the most well loved)

2. A copy of "SECRETS OF GERMAN MEDIEVAL SWORDSMANSHIP".

Go outside to your back yard and become a homegrown practitioner. You need to be careful that you're not teaching yourself the wrong movements, but it's immensely rewarding and it's great exercise.

[Jetman123]

@Suketa Also, check out MyArmory's article on the German Longsword, it's where I first learned the basic motions. Before your wasters come you can practice them with a dowel or yardstick. When you've practiced the cuts and the movements about a hundred times each, get a partner involved and start training together.

[Janina1986XX]

very good!!!

[VikingWannaBe51887]

well executed throw! 

[SilenceMetal09]

hehe ninja like. XD

[SquallLeonhart86]

To those who say this looks oriental:

Asian martial arts understood the basics of body mechanics. Many throws, grabs and locks, were based off of basic principals that fighting styles the world over use. So your proper responce should be: "Hey, that looks like a basic throw."

[Caliburnis]

Extremely good point.

[kaindrg]

@SquallLeonhart86 ty idk how many times i repeat that to ppl who buy the hype and woo of oriental arts. i mean the basic goal is all the same.

[kaosspear]

i like the throw but i really like to c u do it in full plate armor i think u will find it alittle harder to do :)

[Kunstdesfechtens]

IIRC, Ringeck has this technique detailed in his unarmoured section. There is one done in armour with is basically the same move done from a "half-sword" thrust. Armour doesn't retstict a person that much, though. People can do cartwheels in full plate armour. a medieval knight was expected to be able to vault onto his horse in full armour without using stirrups. Full plate only weight as much as a mondern infantry kit anyway. :)

[strayjay]

That's true, and really it weighs quite a bit less. :)

[TheFantasticFA]

Cartwheels in full plate armour? Really?

That would be fun to watch! lol

[Kunstdesfechtens]

Indeed! /watch?v=xm11yAXeegg

[TheFantasticFA]

Thanks! That's hilarious.

[MurryFolt]

@TheFantasticFA People do it here on Youtube all the time

[NikovK]

@TheFantasticFA There was a french knight who did a trick of climbing ladders backwards in full plate. I'm not exactly sure how one climbs a ladder backwards, but all methods I can think of are quite complicated.

[halfassedfart]

@NikovK As I understand it, he climbed the underside of the ladder.

[pitzabolle]

every one in the mediveal times dident wear plate armor.......

[LordFerrand]

The leverage techniques would still apply but the more weight the harder the fall.

[malevolenceXXXensues]

it seems kinda oriental with that tecnique to me

[frederico4d]

I agree with you, throwing someone to the ground it's so oriental!

[malevolenceXXXensues]

yea well alot of the oriental martial arts are basically defensive and more like useful moves to get yourself out of sticky situations

[Kunstdesfechtens]

You'll find a lot of similarities, since the principles of combat are universal. A hip throw is a hip throw no matter where you go. :) These particular techniques are taken straight from old German fencing manuals from around the 1400's.

[malevolenceXXXensues]

thanks for the input

[eddiedaskull]

fuck yeah that was a sweet technique

[demsmine]

o.k, from the zufechten you compass step to come into the krieg, and then once you bind, do you use the leverage from the cross to force his blade away? sorry to ask i just started learning.

[crazygamer84]

look up "ringeck", u can probably find the manual

[CollegiumInArmis]

Er, I know very well about Ringeck. However, it is simply false to keep claiming that Renaissance German martial arts were *only* about killing all the time: this is simply false. In the 16th century (part of the German Renaissance) and after, non-lethal, Fechtschulen matches played to the 'red flower' were far more common place.

[crazygamer84]

whoever was saying anything about killing?? i wasnt part of any discussion, merely pointing the direction for the people who are interested in knowing more about the art. Dont get so heated up and ignore the amazing techniques that are being used.

[CollegiumInArmis]

Sorry, my mistake, I haven't got the hang of these youtube comments yet.

[vaingloria]

We appear to be arguing about different things. My original statement was that the German arts were "made for killing." My wording was precise. While they may have been *used* for other purposes from the 16th century on, as you note and I confirm, they were originally *made* for killing on the 14th and 15th century battlefield.

Firearms are made for killing. Just because they have widespread recreational uses doesn't mean they aren't deadly.

[CollegiumInArmis]

Fair enough. I jumped the gun a bit there in any case. Keep up the good work!

[crazygamer84]

no problem friend =)

[vaingloria]

The martial arts of Renaissance Germany were made for killing, not self-defense, recreation, or "sword play." This technique is one of many found in illustrated manuals from the 15th century onwards. There is a wealth of scholarship showing that, on the 15th century battlefield, techniques like this were absolutely effective.

[CollegiumInArmis]

Actually, the martial arts of Renaissance Germany were practiced for a range of purposes; war, duelling, self defence, exercise, sport, fun... Try looking up the federfechter and the marxbruder, the fencing guilds and the rote blume.

[vaingloria]

Your point? Purpose of war = to kill; duel = to kill, maim, or draw first blood; self-defense = to kill or incapacitate; federschwerter = to safely hone one's ability to kill or maim. And the Marxbruder = one of several fencing guilds (I suspect you're getting at prize playing here, which is nothing more than a nonlethal display of one's ability to kill or maim with a real sword).

[vaingloria]

To suggest that the practices of prize playing and tournaments show that late medieval and early Renaissance martial arts were designed for recreation is like saying that the popularity of military airshows proves that F-16s were designed to entertain crowds.

[vaingloria]

Longsword originated in the 1300s and was used for killing in battle until the mid-1500s. Only then did the concept of fencing for sport, exercise, etc. take hold. Paulus Hector Mair's c. 1540 manual, for ex., was an attempt to show fencing's "civilizing" benefits, and we see sport uses in Meyer. But those are both mid-to-late 16th c. authors (and Mair's manual still depicts a lot of gory killing blows).

[vaingloria]

This technique is from Ringeck, who wrote his manual over a century earlier, when the longsword was still a primary battlefield weapon, and it is clearly designed to throw the opponent into a vulnerable position and kill him.

[CollegiumInArmis]

I didn't deny that. I challenged the false statement that "The martial arts of Renaissance Germany were made for killing, not self-defense, recreation, or "sword play." That is demonstratably false, as Renaissance German fighting guilds practiced precisely for self-defence, recreation and swordplay. How can you deny the evidence of the fencing guilds themselves?

[avenger4311]

Back to the original comment though...just because it's not Asian does not make it an invalid defensive art and just because it's "the sword" does not invalidate it as a "useful" defensive art. Sword movements can be scaled down and adapted to short stick which in turn can be modified for "open hand". It's not the tool, it's how you use it and it's a poor warrior who blames his weapon.

[Dmasterman]

Well I've seen Kali fighting, and as I said not all martial arts from the east don't work (but most don't). However, many took bruce's philosphy wrong and thought jet kun do IS a martial art.. Which is why there are some people who say "I do Jeet un do", its a bit awkward. However, there are a few modern and much more effective martial arts out there that put most traditional martial arts to shame, or make them look as if they don't work.

[avenger4311]

I dont do Jeet Kune Do...I study the philosophy of...I "do" Kali Silat. The art is what you make of it, traditional or modern. Arnis for example claims superiority over Kali but it is from Kali that Arnis is derived. My Maestro says exactly the opposite, that Arnis is crap and Kali is superior. But then, Maestro Jon Bais is well versed in Kali, Arnis and Eskrima as well as several other non-filipino arts

[Dmasterman]

Some of these more modern arts are mostly mixed in to create a Mix Martial art. Such arts include Brazillian Jiu Jitsu, Western Boxing, Western Kick Boxing, greco roman wrestling, krav maga and various others. Some eastern arts like Muay Thai, some forms of Judo and Karate can work. But many others don't. Kali fighting is probably very dangerous if you have two sticks at your side or you're lucky enough to always find two whenever you are in a self defensive position.

[Raven9619]

You misunderstand Kali...the sticks are a training tool as well as a weapon. the ultimate expression of Kali is to be able do defend yourself "without" the sticks however, in the Philipines, in some areas folks still walk with weapons at their sides and fights to the death with sticks and blades still occur on a frequent basis. remember, the weapon is just and extention of the body and when you dont have a weapon handy you need to "be" the weapon..

[Dmasterman]

Well if Kali teaches you that your arms are like the sticks, that pretty cool. But I think a kali guy may be more advantageous if he/she had sticks instead of their own hands no?

[Raven9619]

no! Kali does not teach you that your arms are "like" sticks. you fail to understand the weapon being an extention of the body and when you have no weapon available you adapt your actions to an openhand form. based on "the movements" of the sticks. Look up some of the videos by Diana Lee Inostanto and her husband Ron Balicki or her father Dan Inosanto and you will see. The sticks allow you greater range which may not always be an advantage

[Dmasterman]

If the weapon is an extension of your arm, then without having the weapon it would treat your arm as half the extension of it. lmfao.

[Raven9619]

having the weapon may be preferable in most cases but when you have no weapon...what to do? what to do? Become the weapon, use the movements learned with the training tools and apply them to their appropriate "open hand" form UNTIL you can find a weapon. If you can't find a weapons...continue to "be" the weapon. Once you have sufficiently subdued your opponent...RUN LIKE HELL. The best way to counter an attack is not to be there.

[Dmasterman]

Best way to avoid a situation is to run. Or actually use a few good proven martial arts. Although their is never a guarentee, you may have just a bi of an advantage.

[Gunyo]

There are some Japanese Classical sword schools that still use techniques similar to these. Nice to see.

[Dmasterman]

This isn't any sort of self defense is it? It looks it, but if I took a more rational guess, this is recreation or for sword play =D

[avenger4311]

this is as much self defense as is any asian martial art that utilizes weapons. Just because it's European does not invalidate it as a Martial Art.

[Dmasterman]

Well not all asian martial arts work ;P

Second of all really, how can this be self defense, unless they literally let you carry around a sword in public. Even then if someone got to you with a knife, they'd get cut you before you could draw your blade. Be reasonable.

[avenger4311]

well, who says it has to be a sword. If your life is in danger, you can easily adapt the techniques to say, a readily available staff or a good stout stick. I dont carry my Kali sticks with me everywhere I go but the movements I learned were adapted from the sword and can be easily applied to any available "stick like" object

[Dmasterman]

Thats a valid point. I wouldn't know if sword self defense or sword wrestling actually works. I've never seen actual combat with it. Or even with a stick. There's no ultimate sword fighting championship (although it would be cool). But until then, eh.

[avenger4311]

try looking into the Filipino Martial Arts which utilize combinations of sword/stick, wrestling, boxing and other martial arts. Kali, Arnis, Eskrima, Panantuken are some of the more well known. I practice Kali which trains with sticks based on sword movements but can be easily modified to use open handed.

[avenger4311]

and I'm not quite sure what you mean by "not all asian martial arts work". All MA's, Asian and otherwises,have merrit! if you know what you're doing that is and, you dont run into someone who knows what they're doing only on a more advanced level. you could say, not all MA's are "equal", some have better techniques than others.

[Dmasterman]

Well thats partially valid. Its true that it depends on a person to a point. However the way they train a lot of martial artists now days with traditional martial arts with techniques that just don't work. If you want more info on it go to bullshido dot net it explains it alot more

[avenger4311]

Bruce lee was a firm believer in not being "locked in" to one specific art form as this limits you. The philosophy of "jeet kune do" or "the way of no way" implies do not limit yourself to "one way" but apply "many ways" equally to become more effective. Sword and stick arts in general can be adapted to open hand arts easily...the weapon is just an extention of the body and the skill of the warrior is equally as important as the form used.

[magnusolimpus]

Hails from ARMA Mexico!

[TheSerpentKing]

Yeah, easy and effective technique. Thanx for this one. I still wonder why I didn't invent it myself

[vdebozin]

Easy but not very effective. the blue one should have stopped it with his right forearm and hit the red's face with the pommel or hip-throw him.

[vdebozin]

This technique works safely only with blue's arms lower than the red's in the moment of binden.

[kamikaziu]

I really like halfsword techniques

[Krishnaisgod]

GOT OWNED!!!

[tiamat9989]

very nice form!

would it be possible to have a compilation video of moves rather than one move per video?

[chreberle]

very good! Please produce more of these videos.

[sintagma]

yeah me too they rock ,

[SwordAndBuckler]

I love these videos. :-)