@Openmindness Most people who actually come to AA willingly, wanting to quit are already have adequate realistic insight regarding their drinking habits. I was. AAers spent most of their time trying to convince us that we are diseased, dishonest, and powerless with little if any actual constructive input toward continued abstinence. Paraphrase all you like, many have put plows on their resentments to make serious, beneficial change. We did. Thanks for stopping by. Mike BD
To bad about that sound track. I took my first cake. I went for 15 months and then drifted away. On January 21st 2012 I'll have eight years. I also quit a meth addiction cold turkey without rehab or intervention in 1996. I had also been using crack from 1988 until 1994. Binging. All this in Vegas where I lived for nine years. I left Vegas in '96 and I was still drinking. I packed it in in 2004. Without rehab or intervention. AA gave me a context but after a while, I couldn't take the premise.
I went to AA to help "get me started", and it worked quite well for about five years. They had some cult-like ideas( It was sort of like this cult-church I was in once) but like that church after I got away from it, it lost it's "hold" on me and I've been sober for the last ten years without them.
anything that can help keep of the drink with its capacity for damage and destruction must be a good think... I guess with anything some people may go overboard and that can be true with following AA doctrines; as with any other doctrine.. I think if taken in the right context with a view to just staying sober; then AA is fine.
@blamethennile... why are you so cheesed off with AA and are you teetotal now??
@ra22xa I have been drug-and-alcohol-free for over 17 years. I am cheesed off at AA because it practices coercive recruitment, is dishonest about its methods and outcomes, and denies its own religiosity. Mike BD
This video and ones like it are saving me right now. AA has taken ten years of my life at great cost and devastation. It's so nice to know I am not alone and not crazy. Confusion was the word of the day-every day. It's what happens when an intelligent and vulnerable person tries to make sense of AA. What good is in AA is only what the rest of the world already knows, and AA takes credit for it as if there was something new under the sun. AA-you're time is gonna come! From, "Hurt".
@paulinapaulette Glad you are finding our stuff helpful. Thanks for posting. There are lots of resources out there for ex-members. Be sure to check out the links at the end of our videos. Mike BD
Make your own choices. True friends will support you even if your ideas are different from theirs, false "friends" only support you as long as your vision supports theirs. That's when the value of certain people became clear to me.
AA and NA Saved my life.. It gave my parents their daughter back,gave my sister and brothers their older sister back,and it gave my daughter her mom back..
There is so many out there,who dont like our program in AA and NA,but its okay with me.. i know what helps me,i dont know what helps them..
I just dont understand why people are arguing about it..
We all have a choice to choose what we want..
a big lesson for me was that my road to became sober and clean,is not necessarily yours.
The one thing proven here, if you follow the trail, is you are the ones saying yours is the only answer. Not me. AA is not the religious cult. I have posted enough on here to prove my point, which you cannot debate with any clarity. You do not have any substance with which to back up your empty claims. Let's see the data on the retention rate of your egocentric program. Post it and let's compare against the past several decades of AA and medical data. I'm calling your bluff.
@001Sparticus What do you want to debate? I agree, AA is not a cult. Where have we offered up a program, other than if you can't drink responsibly, don't drink at all. 100% effective. Mike BD
@001Sparticus The problem Sparticus is some people are against anything if it goes against what they want to believe. I want to believe in my friends. I want to believe in the God of my understanding. I want to believe that I can offer help to a otherwise hopeless person. I want to have more understanding than less. I want to with the help of others find answers instead of doing it on my own. I want to live a spiritual life. I dont however want to spend the rest of my life in ignorence.
@mamasboy815 When I look at only one side of anything I only see that side. I have witnessed people become sober and live productive lives in A.A. I have witnnesed people become sober and live productive lives in Church. I have witnessed people who just after years of heavy drinking quit and never drink again. The simple fact is I want A.A. to work for me. I want to be active in the lives of others who may need my help. I want a solution and I found it in A.A. Mike and Blamthenile didnt. simple!
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
@blamethenile Nothing Mike. It's just sad that all of the time wasted telling only half truths. You some how feel you are doing a service, so you should know me by now. As long as I have the opportunity to share with the world the other half of the truth I will do so!
LMAO!!! I never said anything of the sort! You're dead set against AA, period. You're wrong. It's not a cult. Sorry your experience sucked. I never said AA is the whole answer. You think AA is not an answer at all. Paint a simple picture. A drunk comes on here looking for answers and sees your vid telling them AA is wrong. It didn't work for you, though interestingly, it gave you the same start they deserve. Your vid says forget AA though it may work for them. Such anger you have.
@001Sparticus No, it is not a cult. It is a religion. A drunk looking for answers should stop drinking. AA and its subsidiaries are the only ones I have ever heard assert that it is not possible to stop alone. Mike BD
@blamethenile Mike again i'm curious as to how you came up with that one? You are not in anyway original I can tell you that. Alcoholics Anonymous makes it pretty clear when it say's if you have any doubts try some controlled drinking. It never say's anywhere in the book Alcoholics Anonymous that it is not possible to quit alone. I thought you guys are only stating facts? I understand when a person has a opinion he should share it,but to represent it as fact is deception.
Sounds like I touched a nerve. I'm dead on about you. I have agreed with you on some points. I'm not repeating verbatim. You're wrong. I work with many others who are agnostics and atheists as well. No conversions going on. Maybe you found something that works for you? I do not discount that. You discount AA as a whole despite many others out there that say it works and is not what you say it is. Your vid can kill. Ignore it. I post so people searching may give AA a shot despite your vid.
@001Sparticus B l A m E here, I produced this film - wow I had no idea that I have the power to kill. I think what you mean is that in order for AA to work any dissenting views must be kept from the newcomer. In other words censorship must exist. You’ve done me a great favour; I now have another reason to suspect AA is a cult, ‘Talk us down and you’re killing people’. Astounding - I can't believe it. "You better believe we are infallible 'cause if you don't, people die." Wow just wow. B l A m E
I follow no dogma whatsoever. You miss the program and run off with a chip on your shoulder?If you walked it as much as you say you talked it, you would've stood and fought, maybe started a meeting or sponsoring to attain the lofty aspirations you say AA falls so short of. Sleep tight knowing someone may see the vid and not try. That's a fact you keep ignoring. Your video may cheat others of the same road that got you started. Didn't work for you so it won't help others. That's fair.
@001Sparticus You repeat the dogma and slogans verbatim. Why would you want to argue here with people who are never going to agree with you when you could be out saving AA souls? Mike BD
You completely ignored my experience as I wrote it. I gotta laugh because abstinence IS mentioned repeatedly in AA literature and meetings. Steps are SUGGESTED, not required. Belief in God is NOT required. Outside counceling IS recommended. Too bad you didn't have a better experience. Remember where you started? Sleep tight knowing people out there may die because they saw your vid and figured it wasn't worth it to try AA to start the sobriety journey as you did.
@001Sparticus Line by line: your experience is just that. If you are happy with AA, what can we do for you?
Show one place in the first 164 pages where abstinence from alcohol is even mentioned, let alone advocated.
Do the steps or die ring a bell? A willingness to be converted to a belief in God is required. Read "We Agnostics". Too bad for whom? I'm happier and more fulfilled since I left AA than I could have imagined. Sleep tight knowing the old rhetoric and dogma helped no one today. Mike
God and recruiting others? What types of meetings have you attended all this time? Sounds like you have really missed out. I have yet to see anything on a grand scale like you are talking about. The people I choose to hang with actually walk the walk. Sounds like you met all the wrong people and chose to focus on them. They exist yes, but they are not the norm in my experience. Bottom line is, you're deflecting. AA helps many and your vid can turn away those who otherwise have no hope.
@001Sparticus The God of AA is mentioned directly in six of the 12 steps, while recruiting others is the crux of the last one. Abstinence is mentioned in none of them. Your religion serves at best a small fraction of those it sucks in and wastes the time of, some who might otherwise find real solutions to real problems. Its faith healing and psychobabble approach is untheraputic and toxic, at best. Mike BD
Problem with AA is it does NOT address the real issues that people have. It DOES allow one to stop drinking through support of others who have been there ahead of you. Once you get time away from the bottle, many then go ahead with further counceling. If you haven't found people that are grounded, keep looking because the program of one caring person helping another to recover does work. I feel sorry for anyone looking for help that comes across this vid. This says forget thinking about AA.
@001Sparticus I agree that AA provides no help with real issues. Beyond that, it allows nothing. I feel sorry for people who look to AA for help with their drink problem, only to be met with a self-denying bait-and-switch religious movement which says much more about God and recruiting others than it does about long-term abstinence, and which provides no objective coping strategies for anything. More meetings, prayer and it's-in-the-book are the pat answers to all questions asked. Mike BD
Resentment... blah, blah, blah. No resentment here. Been in the program since 93. It is NEVER perfect and there ARE people that, just like any organized institution, will let you down. This video may kill others that have no other hope than AA? Don't you get it? If AA was not working the way you said it did, IF in fact you actually worked the program, why not stay and fight to save others? If you did anything, you talked the talk. You never surrendered your mental and physical addiction
would love to know more about this,a family member attends AA and has been sober for 14yrs so i think it cant be bad really, addiction to meetings must be safer than alcohol ?? they enjoy a normal life now. So Is this just afew groups or is the whole thing like this? ive read some people say its a cult but even if it is, is it really doing people harm?? is there any other vids on this? and did it help you in anyway?xx thanku.x
@amytriptalene AA provides a social outlet for some who would not have one otherwise. It also potentially provides short-term support for those transitioning from substance abuse to abstinence. On the downside, it has no exit strategy and is very dogmatic, demanding a lifetime of loyalty and promotion by its adherents. The true believers are convinced that without a lifelong dedication to AA, a return to drunkenness is inevitable. Mike BD
@blamethenilethanks for the reply.Thats sad!Any healthy place to recover should really have an ending and return to normal life, or the life lost to alcohol is never truely reclaimed by the individual.I think for some ppl attending AA& giving them the credit for keeping them sober is easier than taking the credit themself, coz then they always have AA to fall back on. Im not judging them. I've had my own issues,as long as ppl R happy-whatever goes really, just sad AAs not thought out better.x
The one thing that got me the most is that I wanted to quit smoking(which I chanted and made the desire to smoke go away-am smoke free and continue to be) and I told my sponsor at the time I didn't want to go to the smoking meeting. He demanded that I didn't really want to get sober(and he smoked, he had about four years sober.). I came to the conclusion that if me being new in sobriety managed to quit smoking and stay sober, it would have made him with four years look bad! What nonsense.
I am a Nichiren Buddhist so almost by default that makes me an Atheist. I believe that due to Karma a person made the choices they did and had the genes to become an Alcoholic. I chant two hours a day for whatever I want and the desire to drink stays away. I also used to be an SGI USA member, but about several weeks ago I denounced them to(similar drama as AA but debatably worse).
I denounced AA for the last time about 4 months ago. I believe that I broke the emotional attachment to the meetings. I have tried to just leave more times than I can count but it was always that emotional attachment that made me "keep coming back". It is pretty demoralizing when you realize that you have the same type of "allergy" to the meetings that you had to alcohol.
I agree wholeheartedly with this video and it's message. AA will suck the ever loving life out of you! Then when you need some down time or some support, you end up with some hateful, judgmental GURU spewing those slogans you can already spout forwards and backwards because they have no knowledge or will of their own to advise you differently.
The best way to deprogram from AA is to realize drinking is a choice and none of us are powerless. Then take responsibility and genuinely own and feel the things you have done in your life to yourself and others. Realize slogans are meaningless when there is no action behind them. Realize balance in life is necessary for all things. Realize AA is just another new addiction replacing drinking. Also realize AA was founded by a Freemason, learn the history and motives behind this "program".
Good video, thanks for having the energy to inform others of the potential harm of AA. Your story is essentially the same as mine, except that I went for nearly 12 years. When I stopped going to a meeting that I'd attended every week for those 12 years I got not one phone call from any of the people I had considered my "friends". I've heard this over and over. I went back for a meeting 5 yrs ago and was appalled at the dogma and rigidify. I've never been back.
@Dancinstan1 Thanks. By the time I left, most of them were glad to see me go, so I wasn't expecting any phone calls. I got a few lunch invites, but when they realized I wasn't budging, they quit calling. I went to a funeral of an ex-member a few weeks ago, and even the ones who no longer attended were uneasy until they realized that we were of the same opinion. Mike BD
@blamethenile Mike, I really appreciate the response. I also had an old friend in AA die recently, but the service was held when I was unable to attend. I'm actually sort of relieved, but I spoke with a number of old AA acquaintances leading up to the service and was simply honest with them. I'm not interested in changing the minds of those who are trapped, but do want people to know that one can stay sober and happy without wasting their lives going to meetings every day.
I can not agree MORE I know because my ex of almost 4 years who I stood by through thick and thin Never left his side when he was with me HAS NOW BEEN TOLD TO CUT TIES WITH OLD RELATIONSHIPS AND START "HIS NEW LIFE" What a bunch of crap. The pain that this organization inflicts on sober and good people in alcoholics lives is unmeasurable. Anyone who says this is not true has never really researched WHAT they are taught to do. 90 in 90 days lose old relationship and stick with the winners?
Wow sounds twisted(the video i mean) what a load of drama. AA does have sum dogma and religiousness about it and i too, have struggled there. But this has more to do with my own perceptive filters which are indeed, "cunning, baffling, powerful". I know for sure tho': doing meetings: eases the spiritual hunger which causes people to drink in the first place. An hr
@MsCoolcancer Spiritual hunger wasn't what made me drink. I was trying to deal with a reality i didn't like. The solution for me had nothing to do with switching from alcohol dependence to "spiritual" dependence on a god and on AA. It was all about accepting personal responsibility for my actions and having faith in myself. One miserable year in AA (surrounded by people constantly obsessing on a god) was followed by 18 months (and counting) of reality. Now life really IS improving for me.
It's A.A. that told me that I couldn't live without them & lead a happy life sober. They lied. Spending your days planning out meetings to talk about quitting drinking keeps the alcohol always on the forefront. That just doesn't make sense. Saying I'm an alcoholic 10 times a day turned me into a whipping post easily vulnerable to manipulation. Don't let them scare you into thinking you'll get drunk because you miss meetings. Don't drink & think of all the meetings you won't have to go to
as a recovered alcoholic and drug addict let me be the first to say that it is people like you who have given alcoholics anonymous the stigma that has been placed on recovery programs...if you read the book as you claim you have you would've seen that service in AA is an AVOCATION.....we must carry the message yes...but we have lifes as well...thats when we carry the principles of the steps into our daily lives....
the people you worked with in the program had no clue....get a new sponsor!
@41chrisanderson As ex-addicts and alcoholics, we are not members of AA, so a new sponsor is not in the cards. You are correct about people in the program not having a clue, tho. AA creates its own critics through its self-denying religiosity, rigidity, dishonesty, lousy outcome rates, and its refusal to examine and correct its own shortcomings. Thanks for the post. Mike BD
@41chrisanderson why dont you all set a new step...how about evryone all wear the same shoes as the message is carried......ABSOLUTELY INSANE..LOOK UP THE DEFINITION OF INSANITY..IT IS THE 12 STEPS REPEATED OVER AND OVER WITH THE SAME RESULT....NADA..DANG EXCUSE MAKERS AND WHINERS,,POOR ME IM HELPLESS CAUSE I SUCK,,WAHHHH..TAKE YOUR BALLS OUT AND STOP BLAMIN YOUR IDIOCRACIES ON GOD FOOL
The best example of all time... "Bloody Mary"- South Park (google) "...saying that if Randy completely avoids drinking, drinking is still controlling his life, and that true discipline is figuring out how to live in moderation."
If your looking for a religion (12 Step [IS] it.) and just love to hang with the drug and alcoholic culture of the world? There ya go! If your being forced to go to meetings...i.e. forced to accept a "12 Step Religion" <---There's your Sign
I went through a very rough 28 days nearly 24 years ago, followed by maybe 100 AA meetings within the next six months. The quote in the description for this video, "...and I wanted to quit"... I must say that it wasn't easy, nothing in this life is easy.
Many of the negative comments here are disturbing. AA was ultimately not for me, but it was the start that I wanted, I needed, and I am thankful for all.
Please, don't give up. Sobriety is worth the struggle, you have to believe that.
@smarlonc "and I wanted to quit" is the critical ingredient for quitting. Most who quit do so without the dogma and doctrine of powerlessness and religious conversion advocated by the 12-step approach. AA is ultimately not for most people. Congrats on your continued success, and thanks for the post. Mike BD
Don't get me wrong I don't want to use or drink but my life was better before NA/AA. I felt part of life and had a social life. NA/AA is not a social club like it's made out to be by the crazy steppers. I definatly wasted 10 years of my life in that quasi-cult and now feel profound indignation about it. It is a dangerous mind-fucking religion.
I have been deprogramming for a while now, I am away in another state looking for work so I decided to go to a meeting to see maybe they might know about any work going around. I don't go to meetings anymore and after tonight I am glad I don't. It was the same old tripe out of peoples mouths about program worship and how humble they are. I remember as a newcomer 11 years hearing about how my life was going to be wonderful because of the program, it's all lies.
@breda83 In spite of the "try a different meeting until you find the right one" mantra, with AA, no matter where you go, there you are. Same religion, same bible no matter where one goes. Congrats on your successes and insights, and thanks for checking in. Good to hear from you. Mike
@blamethenile Thank you mike, I am "grateful" for the internet because it was a relief to see that people on here affirmed what I was thinking & feeling, otherwise I think I would have gone mad or topped myself.
I'm sorry AA didn't work out for you. I'm really happy in AA and don't consider myself 'blinkered' which is why I'm open to considering opposing views such as those expressed in your videos. And I enjoy your videos - especially the music - but you do come across as a little 'bitter'... If you do have resentment tainting your life I hope you get free somehow... For myself I've found nothing more effective than inventory taking - so I do it to be FREE. I just wish you the same PEACE brother..
I'm sorry AA didn't work out for you. I'm really happy in AA and don't consider myself 'blinkered' which is why I'm open to considering opposing views such as those expressed in your videos. And I enjoy your videos - especially the music - but you do come across as a little 'bitter'... If you do have resentment tainting your life I hope you get free somehow... For myself I've found nothing more effective than inventory taking - so I do it to be FREE. I just wish you the same PEACE brother...
@penty14 If you don't like our videos, change the channel. Seriously. Just don't watch them anymore. If you can feel good about promoting something that helps only 5% of the time, there probably isn't much we can do for you, anyway. Mike
I am currently deprogramming myself from four years in AA. Thank you for posting this. I finally feel free and reading this reminded me of how I went from "happy, joyous, and free ..." to depressed, confined, and self-righteous" thanks to all the people who are too screwed up to leave AA and try to exist in the real world. I don't have any desire to drink, and I am finally starting to feel "in control of my life". Thank you for being brave and posting the Truth.
I agree I've been going to AA and sober for over 26 years.. AA is not really the problem you are talking about.. I believe it what the fellowship in AA has become..
The AA program that's in my book says nothing about a sponsor or going to meetings on regular basis as tools for recovery. Good fellowship can be found you just have to look pretty damn hard these days.
AA is good for bashing vulderable people with name calling & giving them a loser identity. It's too bad that AA & it's front groups surpress any alternatives to the crooked, unworkable 'dis-ease' model,
really??? wow those meeting you guys go to sound horrible. thats not at all how i've experienced a.a. i know hundrends of people with long term sobriety who are happy and free. I would like to know how many people worked the 12 steps, all of them honestly and patiently. and i've never herd of a cult that you can freely leave or come and don't have pay any money or have a leader of any kind. i think all these post are built out of bitterness.which is sad. i'm sorry you had such bad sponsors.
I have some good friends and acquaintances who go to AA. I myself cannot stand it. I meet with a counselor each week who suggests at every meeting that I go to an AA meeting. I keep saying, no, I don't think so. AA is so insidious, so poisonous. I've been there, and I know that it doesn't really help anyone in the long term.
@blamethenile ---- Yes, I despise those meetings. There are so many reasons why, one of them being that I never could agree with the steps, and I was never even able to stay sober while going regularly, but once I stopped, I had no problem at all. Also, the smoking! Everyone just gathers around outside and smoke like chimneys. I am quitting.
@mjg1970 No, I have been drug and alcohol-free since 1994, and tobacco-free since 2005, all in spite of my previous association with the 12-step movement. Mike
I'm 42 and still trying to deprogram from AA. I'm alive despite the program not because of it. I have known this program to kill people. I have heard sponsors tell mentally ill people they'd be better off dead than drinking again. What's sad is that we still dress this up with all the authority of the state. That was what got me..the whole every state agency supporting it thing. Well I didn't see the cult for what it was and it really did a job on me. Thanks 4 posting this.
@sidiagung Glad you are getting through it, and weighing in. The state is well-aware of steppism's nature, outcome rates, and methods, yet continues to send people. Mike
@sidiagung "...Some people are forced into AA under various threats. AA is in places it has no business being. It has no business in the medical, psychiatric, legal, and government realms. If it really was just a private club for "alcoholics" I would have no problem with it..."
(G., on YT, 2007)
Your state is 12step (Courts, NIAAA, DSM-V, Surgeon General etc) and gives a shit, keep rockin'
I would like to direct peoples attention to a secular recovery program called life ring. Its basically an AA meeting minus the religious bullshit. It asks you how you are feeling and how your week went. In other words it deals with reality something which seems to be devoid of 12 step programs. Im glad Im not the only one that sees the truth of this
Hey -- I totally loved your video and will read your orange--papers. I've been "in the program" for three years and am sick of all of the fear it has instilled in me that if i don't do their "suggestions," I will drink and die. I worry that if I share these feelings with my AA friends, they will kidnap me and take me to a meeting! They already tell me to pray all the time, obviously. Ugh. I got sober to be in control of my own life, not to be policed by an imaginary God. Thanks for sharing. xo
Mike - I am going through the exact same issues right now as I type this response. I am 30 years old. I have a Business Degree. I am now back in school pursuing a Psychology degree. I agree fully that AA and NA do not make sense. I came into these programs desperate for help and left even more confused and conflicted. I also do not subscribe to the disease model anymore, so it was time to leave AA and NA. IT was too depressing and hopeless to stay. I will find peace elsewhere in my own time.
Great video, it is very much like my experience in AA. One thing that helped me part with all the nonsense I learned in AA was that I took a critical thinking class at my local community collage
After learning to evaluate language for bias, and to look at opposing positions.. and therefore think critically I could never go really go back to AA since nothing in the AA program can really stand up to scutiny and most AA sayings are vague exprestions which cannot be clearly defined.
Critical-thinking skills are huge when dealing with outfits like the step-groups. It sounds like it has all worked out for you. Thanks for the post. Mike
Thanks. Great video and spot on. When I became suicidal in AA, I was told to do more, that it was my fault, I wasn't working the programme hard enough, do the steps again, help another newcomer etc etc. I've not been out of AA for long and the sad thing is, I didn't realise just how brainwashed I'd been. And I'm finding out that it really is a process of deprogramming myself. Thanks for helping with that.
If you want to know what aa has to offer, what they think, what they think you should think and do without all the code words and stupid slogans? Then check this video out:
watch?v=VZgVimp4-J0
This is the type of person that thrives in aa LOL!!!!!!!!!
What's that innerchurch bldg called that aa is headquartered in? If cornered on an issue like the meds or whatever i'd bet they'd simply cave and take some freedom of religion escape hatch. In slowing coercion the courts have given em that tool. But then the groupers wud hafta stop saying they're not a religion. Alas, with the bbook god and prayer on their side they always figure out something...ppl ask for it! i did, so i say lettem have it and scientology,ufology, and moonies too.
No opinion on outside issues and individual group autonomy are the escape hatches AAWS usually use. They are located at: Interchurch Building, 475 Riverside Drive, New York, New York 10015
keep on telling the truth about the awful AA delusion... AA kills, AA takes more sanity than it gives... AA is Absolutely Awful... and outright lies passing as true is so sad... Billy W was a flim flam man, a dishonest stockbroker who scammed all his friends and the whole world with the quackery that is AA... AA kills and leads one to self lobotomize or leave... leaving is better!!!
I agree...for AA, change will not come from within; the lunatics are in charge of the asylum. I think the end will come via the court system...probably the family members of a dually diagnosed person who committed suicide after going off meds on sponsor's orders. Or a criminal action when some underaged girl gets pimped out to an oldtimer, ala Midtown. They can't hide forever.
@notafriendofbill In the beginining there were non alcoholic members of AA Dr. Silkworth and the Rev Schumacher to name a few . Today there are no non alcoholics in service on the board objectivity is lost and you are right lunatics run the asylum . Although snake oil pedller Bill Wilson receives the lions share of the credit for AA Dr Bob went back to becoming a Dr. and treated alcoholiscs an estimated 5000 free of charge . To be recovered is to be restorered to a former capacity. Credibility
There is so much "silent suffering" within AA and those personal stories and experiences need to be told and heard for the public record.
That is why I support these videos, not just the ones exposing the dogma and contradiction, but also the testimonies of people who were abused & suffered through the activity of unaccountable AA sponsors & groups. And how AA does nothing, indeed protects abusers with "Traditions" and other pseudo-spiritual mumbo jumbo.
All a person needs to do is a few hours of research to realize that AA is at best ineffective and at worst harmful to its members. Based on my own experiences in AA (I'm sober 11 years, went to AA for 9) I think that most people in the program mean well, but that doesn't make them any less deluded. And the ones who don't mean well...they have a happy hunting ground 'cause all they have to say is "don't take my inventory" and everyone shuts up.
I would agree with that. When I got sober 25 yrs ago people were pushed into AA and there was very little else and no internet or information about the downside of AA. I learned how abusive AA can be from first hand experience.
Doubtless there are well meaning individuals in AA, Ive met them. But the organization is set up to favor the control freaks & preserve the status quo.
Change may only come thu outside pressure, media exposure and litigation. AA's purse needs to be threatened.
Well, you quit drinking by doing exactly that. No workaround for that. Then, you proceed to get your life back. Determine what you need/want to do; make a plan; carry out the plan.
There is no reason at all why aa should have anything to do with that. Unless you want it to.
Drinking is not in a vaccuum; there is a context. Your personal context. Quitting will effect other parts of your life. And, it is your life.
amazing videos. i am so stoked to find people who can speak of their experienced with intelligence and ration. because like any aa'er, i have it in engrained in my mind that anyone speaking of something other than "THE program" is insane and just wants to drink, will drink, and will die. thank you for your vids.
" You had an opportunity to "expose wrong" when these things were happening, but you ran away. " I ran away ? Really? Are you a psychic medium with a crystal ball to read the past.? How do you know what i did and didnt do ?
Actually the abusive sponsors and their drones ran away from me because I dared to confront them. As vigorously face to face as I do in these forums.
Birtwhistle etc are cowards, with no spirituality at all. Just abusers and crackpots that need to be exposed.
Well, ok Thor, you get the award buddy. I know what you did because you told us. At least that was my interpretation of it. Mebbe you are a man of honor, one of the few left in this world. Jest a-ridin around rightin wrongs, rescuin the weak and helpless. Probably got a big ol white hat!
Ah Thor I think you're full of good ole down home shit brother. I agree with you about Birtwhistle, it is possible to hang around AA without going far beyond being sober, but it is unecessary and rare.
This is the typical type of cult illogcial taunting nonsense that people who leave AA & call it a cult can expect. You are in a long line of AA members who have come on here pretending to be virtuous only to end up saying all sorts of wacko cult type stuff to anyone who KNOWS 100% without a doubt that AA is a fraud faith healing cult & nothing more. You are a cult member & nothing more. Everything you say will be typical of AA cult members.
AA members accuse me of being nasty, but I really like your straight to the point telling them how it is!!! The number one thing that helped me to deprogram was all the belittling of AA members on here. The pretend to be nice, then they aren't, then they come back & try it again, fake, abusive, fake, abusive. AA members always assume & project falsehood onto other people. It was something that I hated in mtgs was the lies projected onto people, & all the contradictory excuses for everything.
You aren't nasty humy; you're pathetic, an automaton. A dim-witted zombie spilling the same bile endlessly, without regards to fact or fantasy. You fit in perfectly here, you supply filler material. Last thing in the world I wanna do is abuse you humy, when I see your posts I think: "there but for the grace of God go I". I pity you. You haven't de-programmed humy, you re-programmed, this is your cult and nothing anyone says will ever phase you; typical cult member.
How dare you call someone a dim-witted zombie when you havent answered a single fact regarding abuse in AA other than try to blame victims and discredit the integrity of those who challenge AA.
AA has turned you into an unquestioning boring drone of AA dogma. No wonder AA is shrinking in UK and USA, and losing credibility. No wonder AA is banned in most treatment facilities in my area.
This is not "my cult" (pathetic, dim-witted zombie w/out regards to fact of fantasy)? Interesting, because I did work the entire program on many levels & what goes on inside AA's affiliated programs it denies having. I have researched & investigated AA on my own & the facts point to the truth that AA is a cult nothing more. AA members have an incurable disease & I don't want whatever they have. Alcoholism is not a disease it is a behavior. I did deprogram & no AA member can take that away.
You think "there but for the grace of God go I"? that is so AA cultish it isn't even funny. I am not like you: I don't have an incurable disease. I needed reality based information to understand the dynamics of (behaviors) caused within an alcoholic family in order to honestly "change" myself. I didn't need cult fraud in my life. Keep laughing about the harms AA does to innocent people. I know of 3 people who lost their life over AA & the old-timers think it is normal (whatever).
AA members like you are exactly why I left & I do not want whatever it is you think you have: you can keep your incurable disease & fraud faith healing lies & enjoy laughing at the harms done by the cult of AA. Listen to any speaker's tape: & all they are is one hour making their drunkalogue into comedy, laughing & clapping, mixed in with AA dogma, ending with AA saved their life. I have never heard one speaker identify real problems associated with alcoholism or give one reality based solution.
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supertramp3360 23 hours ago
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supertramp3360 23 hours ago
@Openmindness Most people who actually come to AA willingly, wanting to quit are already have adequate realistic insight regarding their drinking habits. I was. AAers spent most of their time trying to convince us that we are diseased, dishonest, and powerless with little if any actual constructive input toward continued abstinence. Paraphrase all you like, many have put plows on their resentments to make serious, beneficial change. We did. Thanks for stopping by. Mike BD
blamethenile 1 month ago
To bad about that sound track. I took my first cake. I went for 15 months and then drifted away. On January 21st 2012 I'll have eight years. I also quit a meth addiction cold turkey without rehab or intervention in 1996. I had also been using crack from 1988 until 1994. Binging. All this in Vegas where I lived for nine years. I left Vegas in '96 and I was still drinking. I packed it in in 2004. Without rehab or intervention. AA gave me a context but after a while, I couldn't take the premise.
MrBodypro8 2 months ago
I went to AA to help "get me started", and it worked quite well for about five years. They had some cult-like ideas( It was sort of like this cult-church I was in once) but like that church after I got away from it, it lost it's "hold" on me and I've been sober for the last ten years without them.
62bullwinkle 5 months ago 3
@62bullwinkle AA would have fewer critics if it had an exit strategy. Glad it has all worked out for you. Mike BD
blamethenile 5 months ago 3
anything that can help keep of the drink with its capacity for damage and destruction must be a good think... I guess with anything some people may go overboard and that can be true with following AA doctrines; as with any other doctrine.. I think if taken in the right context with a view to just staying sober; then AA is fine.
@blamethennile... why are you so cheesed off with AA and are you teetotal now??
ra22xa 5 months ago
@ra22xa I have been drug-and-alcohol-free for over 17 years. I am cheesed off at AA because it practices coercive recruitment, is dishonest about its methods and outcomes, and denies its own religiosity. Mike BD
blamethenile 5 months ago 4
This video and ones like it are saving me right now. AA has taken ten years of my life at great cost and devastation. It's so nice to know I am not alone and not crazy. Confusion was the word of the day-every day. It's what happens when an intelligent and vulnerable person tries to make sense of AA. What good is in AA is only what the rest of the world already knows, and AA takes credit for it as if there was something new under the sun. AA-you're time is gonna come! From, "Hurt".
paulinapaulette 6 months ago 5
@paulinapaulette Glad you are finding our stuff helpful. Thanks for posting. There are lots of resources out there for ex-members. Be sure to check out the links at the end of our videos. Mike BD
blamethenile 6 months ago 4
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hellstotheyesbaby 6 months ago
The combo of this song and the slow text makes me wanna drink LMAO
gabbylovesmuse 6 months ago
I don't know what is worse, being in the grips of your addiction, or being a brain dead cult member. "thinkin is stinkin"
karmalevel 7 months ago 2
Please share what you did to stay sober with normal happines. I hate AA
karmalevel 7 months ago
This is the video that clinched it for me. I left AA and I've been sober ever since.
2 years 7 1/2 months now, and counting.
"If you want what we have..." Hell, no.
"We'll refund your misery." Keep it.
ndrthrdr1 8 months ago
Make your own choices. True friends will support you even if your ideas are different from theirs, false "friends" only support you as long as your vision supports theirs. That's when the value of certain people became clear to me.
boventom 8 months ago
hahaha ya man AA is fucked
TheRealEMURSE 8 months ago 2
AA and NA Saved my life.. It gave my parents their daughter back,gave my sister and brothers their older sister back,and it gave my daughter her mom back..
There is so many out there,who dont like our program in AA and NA,but its okay with me.. i know what helps me,i dont know what helps them..
I just dont understand why people are arguing about it..
We all have a choice to choose what we want..
a big lesson for me was that my road to became sober and clean,is not necessarily yours.
fiesilke 8 months ago
@fiesilke Thanks for the post. Mike BD
blamethenile 8 months ago
@fiesilke No arguments from us. Mike BD
blamethenile 8 months ago
@fiesilke God saved my life! not some group of self centered lying losers. Are you aware that your programs have a less than 5% sucess rate?
karmalevel 7 months ago 2
No contest, AA is BS.
DJLunasf 8 months ago
The one thing proven here, if you follow the trail, is you are the ones saying yours is the only answer. Not me. AA is not the religious cult. I have posted enough on here to prove my point, which you cannot debate with any clarity. You do not have any substance with which to back up your empty claims. Let's see the data on the retention rate of your egocentric program. Post it and let's compare against the past several decades of AA and medical data. I'm calling your bluff.
001Sparticus 8 months ago
@001Sparticus What do you want to debate? I agree, AA is not a cult. Where have we offered up a program, other than if you can't drink responsibly, don't drink at all. 100% effective. Mike BD
blamethenile 8 months ago
@001Sparticus Open your eyes. Look at what a cult is defined as. Why are you posting on this.. don't you have meetings or something spiritual to do?
finnterry4 7 months ago
@001Sparticus The problem Sparticus is some people are against anything if it goes against what they want to believe. I want to believe in my friends. I want to believe in the God of my understanding. I want to believe that I can offer help to a otherwise hopeless person. I want to have more understanding than less. I want to with the help of others find answers instead of doing it on my own. I want to live a spiritual life. I dont however want to spend the rest of my life in ignorence.
mamasboy815 7 months ago
@mamasboy815 When I look at only one side of anything I only see that side. I have witnessed people become sober and live productive lives in A.A. I have witnnesed people become sober and live productive lives in Church. I have witnessed people who just after years of heavy drinking quit and never drink again. The simple fact is I want A.A. to work for me. I want to be active in the lives of others who may need my help. I want a solution and I found it in A.A. Mike and Blamthenile didnt. simple!
mamasboy815 7 months ago
@mamasboy815 You are happy with your results in AA, so what can we do for you here? Mike BD
blamethenile 7 months ago 3
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@blamethenile Nothing Mike. It's just sad that all of the time wasted telling only half truths. You some how feel you are doing a service, so you should know me by now. As long as I have the opportunity to share with the world the other half of the truth I will do so!
mamasboy815 7 months ago
@mamasboy815 Suit yourself. Mike BD
blamethenile 7 months ago 6
LMAO!!! I never said anything of the sort! You're dead set against AA, period. You're wrong. It's not a cult. Sorry your experience sucked. I never said AA is the whole answer. You think AA is not an answer at all. Paint a simple picture. A drunk comes on here looking for answers and sees your vid telling them AA is wrong. It didn't work for you, though interestingly, it gave you the same start they deserve. Your vid says forget AA though it may work for them. Such anger you have.
001Sparticus 8 months ago
@001Sparticus No, it is not a cult. It is a religion. A drunk looking for answers should stop drinking. AA and its subsidiaries are the only ones I have ever heard assert that it is not possible to stop alone. Mike BD
blamethenile 8 months ago
@blamethenile Mike again i'm curious as to how you came up with that one? You are not in anyway original I can tell you that. Alcoholics Anonymous makes it pretty clear when it say's if you have any doubts try some controlled drinking. It never say's anywhere in the book Alcoholics Anonymous that it is not possible to quit alone. I thought you guys are only stating facts? I understand when a person has a opinion he should share it,but to represent it as fact is deception.
mamasboy815 7 months ago
@mamasboy81 We doubt AA's efficacy, methods, claims and doctrine, not our ability or inability to control our drinking. Mike BD
blamethenile 7 months ago 3
Sounds like I touched a nerve. I'm dead on about you. I have agreed with you on some points. I'm not repeating verbatim. You're wrong. I work with many others who are agnostics and atheists as well. No conversions going on. Maybe you found something that works for you? I do not discount that. You discount AA as a whole despite many others out there that say it works and is not what you say it is. Your vid can kill. Ignore it. I post so people searching may give AA a shot despite your vid.
001Sparticus 8 months ago
@001Sparticus B l A m E here, I produced this film - wow I had no idea that I have the power to kill. I think what you mean is that in order for AA to work any dissenting views must be kept from the newcomer. In other words censorship must exist. You’ve done me a great favour; I now have another reason to suspect AA is a cult, ‘Talk us down and you’re killing people’. Astounding - I can't believe it. "You better believe we are infallible 'cause if you don't, people die." Wow just wow. B l A m E
blamethenile 8 months ago
I follow no dogma whatsoever. You miss the program and run off with a chip on your shoulder?If you walked it as much as you say you talked it, you would've stood and fought, maybe started a meeting or sponsoring to attain the lofty aspirations you say AA falls so short of. Sleep tight knowing someone may see the vid and not try. That's a fact you keep ignoring. Your video may cheat others of the same road that got you started. Didn't work for you so it won't help others. That's fair.
001Sparticus 8 months ago
@001Sparticus You repeat the dogma and slogans verbatim. Why would you want to argue here with people who are never going to agree with you when you could be out saving AA souls? Mike BD
blamethenile 8 months ago
You completely ignored my experience as I wrote it. I gotta laugh because abstinence IS mentioned repeatedly in AA literature and meetings. Steps are SUGGESTED, not required. Belief in God is NOT required. Outside counceling IS recommended. Too bad you didn't have a better experience. Remember where you started? Sleep tight knowing people out there may die because they saw your vid and figured it wasn't worth it to try AA to start the sobriety journey as you did.
001Sparticus 8 months ago
@001Sparticus Line by line: your experience is just that. If you are happy with AA, what can we do for you?
Show one place in the first 164 pages where abstinence from alcohol is even mentioned, let alone advocated.
Do the steps or die ring a bell? A willingness to be converted to a belief in God is required. Read "We Agnostics". Too bad for whom? I'm happier and more fulfilled since I left AA than I could have imagined. Sleep tight knowing the old rhetoric and dogma helped no one today. Mike
blamethenile 8 months ago
God and recruiting others? What types of meetings have you attended all this time? Sounds like you have really missed out. I have yet to see anything on a grand scale like you are talking about. The people I choose to hang with actually walk the walk. Sounds like you met all the wrong people and chose to focus on them. They exist yes, but they are not the norm in my experience. Bottom line is, you're deflecting. AA helps many and your vid can turn away those who otherwise have no hope.
001Sparticus 8 months ago
@001Sparticus The God of AA is mentioned directly in six of the 12 steps, while recruiting others is the crux of the last one. Abstinence is mentioned in none of them. Your religion serves at best a small fraction of those it sucks in and wastes the time of, some who might otherwise find real solutions to real problems. Its faith healing and psychobabble approach is untheraputic and toxic, at best. Mike BD
blamethenile 8 months ago
Problem with AA is it does NOT address the real issues that people have. It DOES allow one to stop drinking through support of others who have been there ahead of you. Once you get time away from the bottle, many then go ahead with further counceling. If you haven't found people that are grounded, keep looking because the program of one caring person helping another to recover does work. I feel sorry for anyone looking for help that comes across this vid. This says forget thinking about AA.
001Sparticus 8 months ago
@001Sparticus I agree that AA provides no help with real issues. Beyond that, it allows nothing. I feel sorry for people who look to AA for help with their drink problem, only to be met with a self-denying bait-and-switch religious movement which says much more about God and recruiting others than it does about long-term abstinence, and which provides no objective coping strategies for anything. More meetings, prayer and it's-in-the-book are the pat answers to all questions asked. Mike BD
blamethenile 8 months ago
Resentment... blah, blah, blah. No resentment here. Been in the program since 93. It is NEVER perfect and there ARE people that, just like any organized institution, will let you down. This video may kill others that have no other hope than AA? Don't you get it? If AA was not working the way you said it did, IF in fact you actually worked the program, why not stay and fight to save others? If you did anything, you talked the talk. You never surrendered your mental and physical addiction
001Sparticus 8 months ago
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001Sparticus 9 months ago
@001Sparticus Vulgarity is a poor substitute for intellect. You seem angry, and resentful. Remember, resentment is the number one offender. Mike BD
blamethenile 9 months ago 7
would love to know more about this,a family member attends AA and has been sober for 14yrs so i think it cant be bad really, addiction to meetings must be safer than alcohol ?? they enjoy a normal life now. So Is this just afew groups or is the whole thing like this? ive read some people say its a cult but even if it is, is it really doing people harm?? is there any other vids on this? and did it help you in anyway?xx thanku.x
amytriptalene 9 months ago 2
@amytriptalene AA provides a social outlet for some who would not have one otherwise. It also potentially provides short-term support for those transitioning from substance abuse to abstinence. On the downside, it has no exit strategy and is very dogmatic, demanding a lifetime of loyalty and promotion by its adherents. The true believers are convinced that without a lifelong dedication to AA, a return to drunkenness is inevitable. Mike BD
blamethenile 9 months ago 5
@blamethenilethanks for the reply.Thats sad!Any healthy place to recover should really have an ending and return to normal life, or the life lost to alcohol is never truely reclaimed by the individual.I think for some ppl attending AA& giving them the credit for keeping them sober is easier than taking the credit themself, coz then they always have AA to fall back on. Im not judging them. I've had my own issues,as long as ppl R happy-whatever goes really, just sad AAs not thought out better.x
amytriptalene 9 months ago 5
The one thing that got me the most is that I wanted to quit smoking(which I chanted and made the desire to smoke go away-am smoke free and continue to be) and I told my sponsor at the time I didn't want to go to the smoking meeting. He demanded that I didn't really want to get sober(and he smoked, he had about four years sober.). I came to the conclusion that if me being new in sobriety managed to quit smoking and stay sober, it would have made him with four years look bad! What nonsense.
FriendofDaishonin 9 months ago 2
I am a Nichiren Buddhist so almost by default that makes me an Atheist. I believe that due to Karma a person made the choices they did and had the genes to become an Alcoholic. I chant two hours a day for whatever I want and the desire to drink stays away. I also used to be an SGI USA member, but about several weeks ago I denounced them to(similar drama as AA but debatably worse).
FriendofDaishonin 9 months ago
I denounced AA for the last time about 4 months ago. I believe that I broke the emotional attachment to the meetings. I have tried to just leave more times than I can count but it was always that emotional attachment that made me "keep coming back". It is pretty demoralizing when you realize that you have the same type of "allergy" to the meetings that you had to alcohol.
FriendofDaishonin 9 months ago 15
I agree wholeheartedly with this video and it's message. AA will suck the ever loving life out of you! Then when you need some down time or some support, you end up with some hateful, judgmental GURU spewing those slogans you can already spout forwards and backwards because they have no knowledge or will of their own to advise you differently.
meddetect10 10 months ago 16
The best way to deprogram from AA is to realize drinking is a choice and none of us are powerless. Then take responsibility and genuinely own and feel the things you have done in your life to yourself and others. Realize slogans are meaningless when there is no action behind them. Realize balance in life is necessary for all things. Realize AA is just another new addiction replacing drinking. Also realize AA was founded by a Freemason, learn the history and motives behind this "program".
beautifulmind546 10 months ago 3
Good video, thanks for having the energy to inform others of the potential harm of AA. Your story is essentially the same as mine, except that I went for nearly 12 years. When I stopped going to a meeting that I'd attended every week for those 12 years I got not one phone call from any of the people I had considered my "friends". I've heard this over and over. I went back for a meeting 5 yrs ago and was appalled at the dogma and rigidify. I've never been back.
Dancinstan1 10 months ago
@Dancinstan1 Thanks. By the time I left, most of them were glad to see me go, so I wasn't expecting any phone calls. I got a few lunch invites, but when they realized I wasn't budging, they quit calling. I went to a funeral of an ex-member a few weeks ago, and even the ones who no longer attended were uneasy until they realized that we were of the same opinion. Mike BD
blamethenile 10 months ago
@blamethenile Mike, I really appreciate the response. I also had an old friend in AA die recently, but the service was held when I was unable to attend. I'm actually sort of relieved, but I spoke with a number of old AA acquaintances leading up to the service and was simply honest with them. I'm not interested in changing the minds of those who are trapped, but do want people to know that one can stay sober and happy without wasting their lives going to meetings every day.
Dancinstan1 10 months ago 2
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I can not agree MORE I know because my ex of almost 4 years who I stood by through thick and thin Never left his side when he was with me HAS NOW BEEN TOLD TO CUT TIES WITH OLD RELATIONSHIPS AND START "HIS NEW LIFE" What a bunch of crap. The pain that this organization inflicts on sober and good people in alcoholics lives is unmeasurable. Anyone who says this is not true has never really researched WHAT they are taught to do. 90 in 90 days lose old relationship and stick with the winners?
abrahamsauto 10 months ago
An hr meeting a day keeps the dr, bars and drama away!!!
MsCoolcancer 11 months ago
@MsCoolcancer Hey, a new AA slogan. Thanks, Mike
blamethenile 11 months ago
Wow sounds twisted(the video i mean) what a load of drama. AA does have sum dogma and religiousness about it and i too, have struggled there. But this has more to do with my own perceptive filters which are indeed, "cunning, baffling, powerful". I know for sure tho': doing meetings: eases the spiritual hunger which causes people to drink in the first place. An hr
MsCoolcancer 11 months ago
@MsCoolcancer Spiritual hunger wasn't what made me drink. I was trying to deal with a reality i didn't like. The solution for me had nothing to do with switching from alcohol dependence to "spiritual" dependence on a god and on AA. It was all about accepting personal responsibility for my actions and having faith in myself. One miserable year in AA (surrounded by people constantly obsessing on a god) was followed by 18 months (and counting) of reality. Now life really IS improving for me.
ndrthrdr1 9 months ago 3
@ndrthrdr1 Your experiences mirror my own. The longer I stay away, the more it improves as well. Glad it is going well for you. Mike BD
blamethenile 9 months ago 5
It's A.A. that told me that I couldn't live without them & lead a happy life sober. They lied. Spending your days planning out meetings to talk about quitting drinking keeps the alcohol always on the forefront. That just doesn't make sense. Saying I'm an alcoholic 10 times a day turned me into a whipping post easily vulnerable to manipulation. Don't let them scare you into thinking you'll get drunk because you miss meetings. Don't drink & think of all the meetings you won't have to go to
hombrelubinero 1 year ago
If you tell yourself your cured you can still drink regularly and do drugs, it OK. You really can, and then you can upload youtubes! ~ Charlie Sheen
DanceRuidoso 1 year ago
@DanceRuidoso Sheen remarks should be on the Sheen video. That aside, I never heard him say he could drink regularly and do drugs. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
as a recovered alcoholic and drug addict let me be the first to say that it is people like you who have given alcoholics anonymous the stigma that has been placed on recovery programs...if you read the book as you claim you have you would've seen that service in AA is an AVOCATION.....we must carry the message yes...but we have lifes as well...thats when we carry the principles of the steps into our daily lives....
the people you worked with in the program had no clue....get a new sponsor!
41chrisanderson 1 year ago
@41chrisanderson As ex-addicts and alcoholics, we are not members of AA, so a new sponsor is not in the cards. You are correct about people in the program not having a clue, tho. AA creates its own critics through its self-denying religiosity, rigidity, dishonesty, lousy outcome rates, and its refusal to examine and correct its own shortcomings. Thanks for the post. Mike BD
blamethenile 1 year ago
@41chrisanderson why dont you all set a new step...how about evryone all wear the same shoes as the message is carried......ABSOLUTELY INSANE..LOOK UP THE DEFINITION OF INSANITY..IT IS THE 12 STEPS REPEATED OVER AND OVER WITH THE SAME RESULT....NADA..DANG EXCUSE MAKERS AND WHINERS,,POOR ME IM HELPLESS CAUSE I SUCK,,WAHHHH..TAKE YOUR BALLS OUT AND STOP BLAMIN YOUR IDIOCRACIES ON GOD FOOL
magicxification 11 months ago
The best example of all time... "Bloody Mary"- South Park (google) "...saying that if Randy completely avoids drinking, drinking is still controlling his life, and that true discipline is figuring out how to live in moderation."
If your looking for a religion (12 Step [IS] it.) and just love to hang with the drug and alcoholic culture of the world? There ya go! If your being forced to go to meetings...i.e. forced to accept a "12 Step Religion" <---There's your Sign
acquiescere9 1 year ago
I went through a very rough 28 days nearly 24 years ago, followed by maybe 100 AA meetings within the next six months. The quote in the description for this video, "...and I wanted to quit"... I must say that it wasn't easy, nothing in this life is easy.
Many of the negative comments here are disturbing. AA was ultimately not for me, but it was the start that I wanted, I needed, and I am thankful for all.
Please, don't give up. Sobriety is worth the struggle, you have to believe that.
smarlonc 1 year ago
@smarlonc "and I wanted to quit" is the critical ingredient for quitting. Most who quit do so without the dogma and doctrine of powerlessness and religious conversion advocated by the 12-step approach. AA is ultimately not for most people. Congrats on your continued success, and thanks for the post. Mike BD
blamethenile 1 year ago
I LIKE, NO, I LOVE PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE GUTS TO TELL THE TRUTH.
IGOROZKARSKY 1 year ago
i wll say this "I love TOOL"
aperfectrain 1 year ago
MY EXPERIENCE TOO. I HAVE HAD HEALTH PROBLEMS,
THERFORE HARD TIMES, & WHERE ARE THOSE "CARING"
& "LOVING" AA MEMBERS, "WE WILL LOVE YOU ´TIL YOU
LEARN TO LOVE YOURSELF". THOSE FARISEES MOTHERS.
IGOROZKARSKY 1 year ago
Don't get me wrong I don't want to use or drink but my life was better before NA/AA. I felt part of life and had a social life. NA/AA is not a social club like it's made out to be by the crazy steppers. I definatly wasted 10 years of my life in that quasi-cult and now feel profound indignation about it. It is a dangerous mind-fucking religion.
breda83 1 year ago 2
I believe there needs to be a recovery program to recover from AA dogma and indoctrination...
Jacobe1 1 year ago
@Jacobe1 There are lots of resources available, but nothing I would call a program. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@Jacobe1 I hear that...
breda83 1 year ago
how can we shut them down!!!!
heartattackdon 1 year ago
I have been deprogramming for a while now, I am away in another state looking for work so I decided to go to a meeting to see maybe they might know about any work going around. I don't go to meetings anymore and after tonight I am glad I don't. It was the same old tripe out of peoples mouths about program worship and how humble they are. I remember as a newcomer 11 years hearing about how my life was going to be wonderful because of the program, it's all lies.
breda83 1 year ago
@breda83 In spite of the "try a different meeting until you find the right one" mantra, with AA, no matter where you go, there you are. Same religion, same bible no matter where one goes. Congrats on your successes and insights, and thanks for checking in. Good to hear from you. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blamethenile Thank you mike, I am "grateful" for the internet because it was a relief to see that people on here affirmed what I was thinking & feeling, otherwise I think I would have gone mad or topped myself.
breda83 1 year ago
I'm sorry AA didn't work out for you. I'm really happy in AA and don't consider myself 'blinkered' which is why I'm open to considering opposing views such as those expressed in your videos. And I enjoy your videos - especially the music - but you do come across as a little 'bitter'... If you do have resentment tainting your life I hope you get free somehow... For myself I've found nothing more effective than inventory taking - so I do it to be FREE. I just wish you the same PEACE brother..
michaelt164 1 year ago
I'm sorry AA didn't work out for you. I'm really happy in AA and don't consider myself 'blinkered' which is why I'm open to considering opposing views such as those expressed in your videos. And I enjoy your videos - especially the music - but you do come across as a little 'bitter'... If you do have resentment tainting your life I hope you get free somehow... For myself I've found nothing more effective than inventory taking - so I do it to be FREE. I just wish you the same PEACE brother...
michaelt164 1 year ago
Priesthood of Levite priest and six classes of priests free to marry MUST BE RESTORED and the Levite should guard the entrance to the meeting tent.
pjdpelham 1 year ago
was that tool or perfect circle?
gunbarrel09 1 year ago
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penty14 1 year ago
@penty14 If you don't like our videos, change the channel. Seriously. Just don't watch them anymore. If you can feel good about promoting something that helps only 5% of the time, there probably isn't much we can do for you, anyway. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
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andreasheinz 1 year ago
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andreasheinz 1 year ago
I am currently deprogramming myself from four years in AA. Thank you for posting this. I finally feel free and reading this reminded me of how I went from "happy, joyous, and free ..." to depressed, confined, and self-righteous" thanks to all the people who are too screwed up to leave AA and try to exist in the real world. I don't have any desire to drink, and I am finally starting to feel "in control of my life". Thank you for being brave and posting the Truth.
dickie13492 1 year ago
@dickie13492 Glad it is working out for you, and that you find our stuff helpful. Thanks for posting. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@dickie13492
Dickie,
May I write you? I just read your post. I think we could talk!
If you don't mind, let me know.
MsGrammarnazi 1 year ago
@dickie13492 Same here, it only made me depressed & fearful, classical cult symptoms.
yam500 1 year ago
@dickie13492 spot on with the 'depression, confinement,& self-righteousness" comment. Thank You..
breda83 1 year ago
@breda83 Thank you. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
I agree I've been going to AA and sober for over 26 years.. AA is not really the problem you are talking about.. I believe it what the fellowship in AA has become..
The AA program that's in my book says nothing about a sponsor or going to meetings on regular basis as tools for recovery. Good fellowship can be found you just have to look pretty damn hard these days.
TACMAN518 1 year ago
Because it didn't work for you it doesn't work for anyone else? Brilliant!
pmr037 1 year ago
@pmr037 These vids are directed at those for whom steppism does not resonate true. If it works for you, congrats. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
AA is good for bashing vulderable people with name calling & giving them a loser identity. It's too bad that AA & it's front groups surpress any alternatives to the crooked, unworkable 'dis-ease' model,
Yoganao 1 year ago
Thanks for posting this. Deprogramming as I type here.
madcowlobster 1 year ago
really??? wow those meeting you guys go to sound horrible. thats not at all how i've experienced a.a. i know hundrends of people with long term sobriety who are happy and free. I would like to know how many people worked the 12 steps, all of them honestly and patiently. and i've never herd of a cult that you can freely leave or come and don't have pay any money or have a leader of any kind. i think all these post are built out of bitterness.which is sad. i'm sorry you had such bad sponsors.
jmeff21 1 year ago
@jmeff21 Really. Thanks for the parroted testimonial. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@jmeff21 12 step is a religion. Not bitter. FACT. 5% with AA 5% with no AA. FACT.
acquiescere9 1 year ago
I have some good friends and acquaintances who go to AA. I myself cannot stand it. I meet with a counselor each week who suggests at every meeting that I go to an AA meeting. I keep saying, no, I don't think so. AA is so insidious, so poisonous. I've been there, and I know that it doesn't really help anyone in the long term.
innerspace55 1 year ago
@innerspace55 It might be time for a new counselor. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
@blamethenile ---- Yes, I despise those meetings. There are so many reasons why, one of them being that I never could agree with the steps, and I was never even able to stay sober while going regularly, but once I stopped, I had no problem at all. Also, the smoking! Everyone just gathers around outside and smoke like chimneys. I am quitting.
innerspace55 1 year ago
@innerspace55 Good luck on your quit, and thanks for the post. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
3:49am. good call.
EsenHanIm 1 year ago
Just one question.... Are you drinking again? Not a sarcastic question either sincerely honest question! mjg1970 at rochester. rr. com
mjg1970 1 year ago
@mjg1970 No, I have been drug and alcohol-free since 1994, and tobacco-free since 2005, all in spite of my previous association with the 12-step movement. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
Just a note,
I'm 42 and still trying to deprogram from AA. I'm alive despite the program not because of it. I have known this program to kill people. I have heard sponsors tell mentally ill people they'd be better off dead than drinking again. What's sad is that we still dress this up with all the authority of the state. That was what got me..the whole every state agency supporting it thing. Well I didn't see the cult for what it was and it really did a job on me. Thanks 4 posting this.
sidiagung 1 year ago
@sidiagung Glad you are getting through it, and weighing in. The state is well-aware of steppism's nature, outcome rates, and methods, yet continues to send people. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@sidiagung "...Some people are forced into AA under various threats. AA is in places it has no business being. It has no business in the medical, psychiatric, legal, and government realms. If it really was just a private club for "alcoholics" I would have no problem with it..."
(G., on YT, 2007)
Your state is 12step (Courts, NIAAA, DSM-V, Surgeon General etc) and gives a shit, keep rockin'
andreasheinz 1 year ago
A.A Rocks, enjoy ur jouney !!!
veganpowernow 1 year ago
I would like to direct peoples attention to a secular recovery program called life ring. Its basically an AA meeting minus the religious bullshit. It asks you how you are feeling and how your week went. In other words it deals with reality something which seems to be devoid of 12 step programs. Im glad Im not the only one that sees the truth of this
mistysuperfilious 1 year ago
It is not necessary to be policed by an imaginary god. A person can police himself.
dix345 2 years ago
Hey -- I totally loved your video and will read your orange--papers. I've been "in the program" for three years and am sick of all of the fear it has instilled in me that if i don't do their "suggestions," I will drink and die. I worry that if I share these feelings with my AA friends, they will kidnap me and take me to a meeting! They already tell me to pray all the time, obviously. Ugh. I got sober to be in control of my own life, not to be policed by an imaginary God. Thanks for sharing. xo
minervaruby 2 years ago 2
Mike - I am going through the exact same issues right now as I type this response. I am 30 years old. I have a Business Degree. I am now back in school pursuing a Psychology degree. I agree fully that AA and NA do not make sense. I came into these programs desperate for help and left even more confused and conflicted. I also do not subscribe to the disease model anymore, so it was time to leave AA and NA. IT was too depressing and hopeless to stay. I will find peace elsewhere in my own time.
thetrulyunrulyone 2 years ago
Good to hear that you are finding your way. Good luck, and thanks for posting. Mike
blamethenile 2 years ago
One of the good things about places like this is that you realize you were correct in thinking there is something seriously amiss with aa.
The zealots who come here to romp and play are confirming evidence. They are their own worst enemy.
dix345 2 years ago
What do you mean w/ "being your worst enemy"?
andreasheinz 2 years ago
Great video, it is very much like my experience in AA. One thing that helped me part with all the nonsense I learned in AA was that I took a critical thinking class at my local community collage
After learning to evaluate language for bias, and to look at opposing positions.. and therefore think critically I could never go really go back to AA since nothing in the AA program can really stand up to scutiny and most AA sayings are vague exprestions which cannot be clearly defined.
BIGJOHN805 2 years ago 2
Critical-thinking skills are huge when dealing with outfits like the step-groups. It sounds like it has all worked out for you. Thanks for the post. Mike
blamethenile 2 years ago
@blamethenile spot on
yam500 1 year ago
stay away the wont let you spek your mind they think its all good but in truth its bs and depeping to be around stay away from aa
rexxed33 2 years ago
@rexxed33 IN AA YOU CANNOT SPEAK YOUR MIND.
YOU HAVE TO BABBLE AA BULLSHIT (Philosophy).
BELIEVE ME, I´VE HEARD IT FOR MORE
THAN TWENTY-FIVE YEARS.
IGOROZKARSKY 1 year ago 2
Can I bring a stereo & play some trance into the A.A. meeting?
starlost1957 2 years ago
NO!!! It must mono, no crosstalk / dialogs!
andreasheinz 2 years ago
Thanks. Great video and spot on. When I became suicidal in AA, I was told to do more, that it was my fault, I wasn't working the programme hard enough, do the steps again, help another newcomer etc etc. I've not been out of AA for long and the sad thing is, I didn't realise just how brainwashed I'd been. And I'm finding out that it really is a process of deprogramming myself. Thanks for helping with that.
9faceless 2 years ago 8
Exactly the same thing I was told. Check out "Feeling Suicidal in AA?". Mike
blamethenile 2 years ago
I was told the same thing.. And I felt miserable. These videoes is helping me out of brainwashed 12.step "boble" of a life.
Computerwoman 2 years ago
Glad it is working out for you. Thanks for the post. Mike
blamethenile 2 years ago
yes. think for yourself. Observe, read, think.
And, yes. frequently drinking too much is just that. Drinking too much. Dont make a mountain out of a molehill.
dix345 2 years ago
I like the music.
AA is not as bad as the people who attend the meetings make it.
There are more AA's on the side, than in the meetings.
You can not fit 300 people in to a room with only 30 chairs.
Just do one thing
Think for yourself
Question everything.
Question even your own gluttony
It may just be an addiction
paul8bee 2 years ago
interesting.
notspeedy0314 2 years ago
If you want to know what aa has to offer, what they think, what they think you should think and do without all the code words and stupid slogans? Then check this video out:
watch?v=VZgVimp4-J0
This is the type of person that thrives in aa LOL!!!!!!!!!
OraleNesto 2 years ago
What's that innerchurch bldg called that aa is headquartered in? If cornered on an issue like the meds or whatever i'd bet they'd simply cave and take some freedom of religion escape hatch. In slowing coercion the courts have given em that tool. But then the groupers wud hafta stop saying they're not a religion. Alas, with the bbook god and prayer on their side they always figure out something...ppl ask for it! i did, so i say lettem have it and scientology,ufology, and moonies too.
yardta 2 years ago
No opinion on outside issues and individual group autonomy are the escape hatches AAWS usually use. They are located at: Interchurch Building, 475 Riverside Drive, New York, New York 10015
Mike
blamethenile 2 years ago
keep on telling the truth about the awful AA delusion... AA kills, AA takes more sanity than it gives... AA is Absolutely Awful... and outright lies passing as true is so sad... Billy W was a flim flam man, a dishonest stockbroker who scammed all his friends and the whole world with the quackery that is AA... AA kills and leads one to self lobotomize or leave... leaving is better!!!
mysticathiest 2 years ago
I agree...for AA, change will not come from within; the lunatics are in charge of the asylum. I think the end will come via the court system...probably the family members of a dually diagnosed person who committed suicide after going off meds on sponsor's orders. Or a criminal action when some underaged girl gets pimped out to an oldtimer, ala Midtown. They can't hide forever.
notafriendofbill 2 years ago 11
notafriend of bill, I think it will come to that. It can't be hidden forever.
dix345 2 years ago
@notafriendofbill In the beginining there were non alcoholic members of AA Dr. Silkworth and the Rev Schumacher to name a few . Today there are no non alcoholics in service on the board objectivity is lost and you are right lunatics run the asylum . Although snake oil pedller Bill Wilson receives the lions share of the credit for AA Dr Bob went back to becoming a Dr. and treated alcoholiscs an estimated 5000 free of charge . To be recovered is to be restorered to a former capacity. Credibility
jeffrey19621 10 months ago 2
There is so much "silent suffering" within AA and those personal stories and experiences need to be told and heard for the public record.
That is why I support these videos, not just the ones exposing the dogma and contradiction, but also the testimonies of people who were abused & suffered through the activity of unaccountable AA sponsors & groups. And how AA does nothing, indeed protects abusers with "Traditions" and other pseudo-spiritual mumbo jumbo.
These videos encourage honesty.
ThorSpirit 2 years ago 4
All a person needs to do is a few hours of research to realize that AA is at best ineffective and at worst harmful to its members. Based on my own experiences in AA (I'm sober 11 years, went to AA for 9) I think that most people in the program mean well, but that doesn't make them any less deluded. And the ones who don't mean well...they have a happy hunting ground 'cause all they have to say is "don't take my inventory" and everyone shuts up.
notafriendofbill 2 years ago 9
I would agree with that. When I got sober 25 yrs ago people were pushed into AA and there was very little else and no internet or information about the downside of AA. I learned how abusive AA can be from first hand experience.
Doubtless there are well meaning individuals in AA, Ive met them. But the organization is set up to favor the control freaks & preserve the status quo.
Change may only come thu outside pressure, media exposure and litigation. AA's purse needs to be threatened.
ThorSpirit 2 years ago 3
i assume you came back w/o any 12s snakeoil or koolade to share...how'd the "girls" like your new self?
yardta 2 years ago
Nope, no more snake-oil or Kool-ade franchises. The unindoctrinated ones seem to still like me well enough. Mike
blamethenile 2 years ago
Well, you quit drinking by doing exactly that. No workaround for that. Then, you proceed to get your life back. Determine what you need/want to do; make a plan; carry out the plan.
There is no reason at all why aa should have anything to do with that. Unless you want it to.
Drinking is not in a vaccuum; there is a context. Your personal context. Quitting will effect other parts of your life. And, it is your life.
Real people refute streotypes.
dix345 2 years ago
amazing videos. i am so stoked to find people who can speak of their experienced with intelligence and ration. because like any aa'er, i have it in engrained in my mind that anyone speaking of something other than "THE program" is insane and just wants to drink, will drink, and will die. thank you for your vids.
blastedable 2 years ago
Thanks for the postitive feed-back. Glad it hit home with you. Part 2 will be posted soon. Mike
blamethenile 2 years ago
" You had an opportunity to "expose wrong" when these things were happening, but you ran away. " I ran away ? Really? Are you a psychic medium with a crystal ball to read the past.? How do you know what i did and didnt do ?
Actually the abusive sponsors and their drones ran away from me because I dared to confront them. As vigorously face to face as I do in these forums.
Birtwhistle etc are cowards, with no spirituality at all. Just abusers and crackpots that need to be exposed.
ThorSpirit 2 years ago
Well, ok Thor, you get the award buddy. I know what you did because you told us. At least that was my interpretation of it. Mebbe you are a man of honor, one of the few left in this world. Jest a-ridin around rightin wrongs, rescuin the weak and helpless. Probably got a big ol white hat!
Ah Thor I think you're full of good ole down home shit brother. I agree with you about Birtwhistle, it is possible to hang around AA without going far beyond being sober, but it is unecessary and rare.
tinklebell100 2 years ago
This is the typical type of cult illogcial taunting nonsense that people who leave AA & call it a cult can expect. You are in a long line of AA members who have come on here pretending to be virtuous only to end up saying all sorts of wacko cult type stuff to anyone who KNOWS 100% without a doubt that AA is a fraud faith healing cult & nothing more. You are a cult member & nothing more. Everything you say will be typical of AA cult members.
humyepright 2 years ago
AA members accuse me of being nasty, but I really like your straight to the point telling them how it is!!! The number one thing that helped me to deprogram was all the belittling of AA members on here. The pretend to be nice, then they aren't, then they come back & try it again, fake, abusive, fake, abusive. AA members always assume & project falsehood onto other people. It was something that I hated in mtgs was the lies projected onto people, & all the contradictory excuses for everything.
humyepright 2 years ago
You aren't nasty humy; you're pathetic, an automaton. A dim-witted zombie spilling the same bile endlessly, without regards to fact or fantasy. You fit in perfectly here, you supply filler material. Last thing in the world I wanna do is abuse you humy, when I see your posts I think: "there but for the grace of God go I". I pity you. You haven't de-programmed humy, you re-programmed, this is your cult and nothing anyone says will ever phase you; typical cult member.
tinklebell100 2 years ago
How dare you call someone a dim-witted zombie when you havent answered a single fact regarding abuse in AA other than try to blame victims and discredit the integrity of those who challenge AA.
AA has turned you into an unquestioning boring drone of AA dogma. No wonder AA is shrinking in UK and USA, and losing credibility. No wonder AA is banned in most treatment facilities in my area.
Do you really think people want what youve got ?
Your delusion is matched only by your conceit.
ThorSpirit 2 years ago
This is not "my cult" (pathetic, dim-witted zombie w/out regards to fact of fantasy)? Interesting, because I did work the entire program on many levels & what goes on inside AA's affiliated programs it denies having. I have researched & investigated AA on my own & the facts point to the truth that AA is a cult nothing more. AA members have an incurable disease & I don't want whatever they have. Alcoholism is not a disease it is a behavior. I did deprogram & no AA member can take that away.
humyepright 2 years ago
You think "there but for the grace of God go I"? that is so AA cultish it isn't even funny. I am not like you: I don't have an incurable disease. I needed reality based information to understand the dynamics of (behaviors) caused within an alcoholic family in order to honestly "change" myself. I didn't need cult fraud in my life. Keep laughing about the harms AA does to innocent people. I know of 3 people who lost their life over AA & the old-timers think it is normal (whatever).
humyepright 2 years ago
AA members like you are exactly why I left & I do not want whatever it is you think you have: you can keep your incurable disease & fraud faith healing lies & enjoy laughing at the harms done by the cult of AA. Listen to any speaker's tape: & all they are is one hour making their drunkalogue into comedy, laughing & clapping, mixed in with AA dogma, ending with AA saved their life. I have never heard one speaker identify real problems associated with alcoholism or give one reality based solution.
humyepright 2 years ago
I'm not laughing humy......
tinklebell100 2 years ago