Other4815 RE: Atheist's Worst Nightmare: what came 1st? -The Chicken vs Egg Challenge!

[XxDrRainfallxX]

You know, the simplist answer is usually the correct one... a long long time ago, some bird like creature had a baby. Over the next few hundred generations, those babies began to shrink and produce smaller babies with more feathers and a sharper beak. One day, they layed an egg, and BAM! out popped a small chicken. didnt seem to diffrent from the other creatures so reproduction wasnt a problem. THE END.

[TheAmazingBiped]

You're wrong. The entire chicken vs egg dilemma is based on a misunderstanding of what a species is.

Your assessment of the problem is incorrect.

[panjea23]

like a sledge hammer to the face of reason he shall cower>>>>>>>>>gererrer - Mort.

[themanofearth]

Nice! Cheers.

[ArtWerkZ]

@themanofearth ThanX Man, -much appreciated!

[Danmill23]

Good video dude.

[ArtWerkZ]

@Danmill23 Than you my good Sir!

[cmbmachine]

Awesome!

I still believe that the pirates and dinosaurs were mortal enemies and they killed each other off in the end. Thus, Global warming ensued!

[ArtWerkZ]

@cmbmachine well you may have all the evidence on your side, but I´ll stick with my interpretation.. (-It comforts me in the dark of night ;)

[BattleshipTx]

From the context of the question it is clear that the question is asking about chicken eggs, not eggs of some other species. The question is: Which came first, the chicken or the chicken egg? Dinosaur eggs are not relevant. The real answer is that we cannot know. Either something that wasn't a chicken laid a mutated egg that was a chicken egg or an animal hatched from an egg that wasn't a chicken egg mutated through its early life to become a chicken. One or the other; we don't know who was 1st.

[RockJosiah]

But the point of the awnser still stands as the question is a philosophical one anyway.

If he wanted to chat about chicken eggs he should have said so.

[ArtWerkZ]

@RockJosiah Yeah it´s the discussion it sparks off, that´s important!

[RockJosiah]

@ArtWerkZ I'll be making a reponse to this guy later today. I've done a few to him. I did enjoy the ones that are up already. =3 Thanks for the headstard on him. I'll watch this again before I record

[ArtWerkZ]

@RockJosiah Coolness, I´ll check out your stuff too!

[RockJosiah]

@ArtWerkZ Much obliged =3

I'm uploading it now. Gonna take 2 hours aparently. May even have to 2 part it =/

Oh well =3

I'm curious as to why yours got taken down as a vid response. I just noticed. What happened? Other, as silly as he is, usuly allows responses

[ArtWerkZ]

@RockJosiah Yeah youre right hetook it down.. and all the trouble I went thru making a vid response :( My first one too..

[RockJosiah]

@ArtWerkZ Son of a bitch =/ Why did he take it down? Seemed within his usual stuff, he's really against profanaties to an excess. But this did seem ok =/

[ArtWerkZ]

@BattleshipTx

2ndly: Mutation doesnt´t work that way. It can´t cause change in species within the individual creature´s lifetime; Mutations develops over generations..

-Useful ones stay on and "bad" ones die off..

[BattleshipTx]

That's true, but we are dealing with a situation where an animal is in one of two sets: 1. Chicken or 2. Not-chicken. So as those mutations develop over generations at some point the not-chicken has changed enough that the "not-chicken" has become "chicken". It is the first of those animals that meet enough of the characteristics to be "chicken" that we are talking about. Whichever one is the first to meet whatever definition we use for chicken.

[ArtWerkZ]

@BattleshipTx -But nonetheless, it still came out of an egg!

[BattleshipTx]

"But nonetheless, it still came out of an egg! "

But was it a chicken egg? That is the question.

[ArtWerkZ]

@BattleshipTx Why is that the question.. If a chicken comes out of the egg, -How can you claim it to be anything BUT a chicken egg?? -since the egg-mechanism predates chickens by millions of years. -How can ANYone hold the position that the chicken came first -or neither as manofearth claims..

[BattleshipTx]

"since the egg-mechanism predates chickens by millions of years. -How can ANYone hold the position that the chicken came first "

I agree. Clearly the egg mechanism came first, IMHO. But that is not the question that anyone is asking. No one is asking about egg mechanisms. The question is: which came first, the chicken or the chicken egg. I think you can make a case for either one, thus we don't know.

[BattleshipTx]

"If a chicken comes out of the egg, -How can you claim it to be anything BUT a chicken egg?"

If an animal lays a chicken egg, -How can you claim it to be anything BUT a  chicken? Answer that and you will see the answer to your question.

[ArtWerkZ]

@BattleshipTx but that´s just going back a step..That chicken you´re talking about now, IT came out of an egg.. since all birds & their ancestors start out as eggs necessarily, the egg came first. Both chronologically and in evolutionary terms.

[forhisglory723]

@BattleshipTx: You may want to be Checkin Fox News site for a Chicken vs. Egg article which came out over the last few days. British Scientists discovered a protien which is present, ONLY in the adult females ovaries. Not just chickens either.

[BattleshipTx]

@forhisglory723 So how do you see that as impacting this discussion? Are you saying that means eggs came first? Or chickens? Because I could argue either one.

[AngieTheSherbert]

@BattleshipTx If you're going to put it like that... then what is a chicken?! :P The first 'chicken' was probably very different to chickens today - but how different does it have to be until it is no longer classed as a chicken? And even chickens today have thousands of different breeds...

Even so, it would still be the egg if you consider that an animal that is practically a 'chicken' apart from 1 gene could lay an egg containing an animal that is 100% chicken, due to 1 mutant gene.

[AngieTheSherbert]

@BattleshipTx Mutant genes are what causes evolution, right? Not my field of expertise if i'm honest, still studying biology at school :P

[BattleshipTx]

@AngieTheSherbert "Mutant genes are what causes evolution, right? "

It is one thing that does, but that isn't exclusive at all. It may not be even the most common way. Look at horses. The earliest are quite small, the size of a big dog. Today we have huge Arabian stallions. Was that a mutant gene? Maybe, but probably not. It was just the smaller horses dying without propagating and larger ones living to do so. A biological advantage. It isn't always a wild mutant gene making a sudden change.

[AngieTheSherbert]

@BattleshipTx Oh yeah, good point!